Author Topic: The Wreck of BC  (Read 9940 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #195 on: March 19, 2018, 10:48:59 am »
Despite promising that the pipeline will get built at a town hall, the federal government has provided zero action to make that happen, and they show no intention of ever planning to.

It was Transcanada that cancelled the project. Are you suggesting that we should nationalize the petroleum sector?

Offline wilber

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #196 on: March 19, 2018, 11:27:12 am »
BTW, the new NDP government repealed section 2 of the BC Carbon Tax Act which required it to be revenue neutral. With GVRD gas prices pushing $1:55 a litre for regular, the tax is going up again on April 1st. 
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline TimG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #197 on: March 19, 2018, 11:48:20 am »
It was Transcanada that cancelled the project. Are you suggesting that we should nationalize the petroleum sector?
TransCanada cancelled the project because they feared they would sink a bunch of money into a project that would get killed by politicals who cave into clueless nimbys and/or the impossible complex task of "consulting" with every native band along the route. If Kinder Morgan cancels their pipeline they will say it was for "business" reasons too but only the clueless would refuse to acknowledge the political context.

Resources built this country and the manufacturing industry exports exclusively to the US. Now we have protectionism in the US and a governments/courts that have made resource development impossible. This country is screwed. I give it 15 years before it collapses like Greece (note that excessive regulatory burdens is one of the reasons why the Greek economy does poorly).

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #198 on: March 19, 2018, 04:45:46 pm »
TransCanada cancelled the project because they feared they would sink a bunch of money into a project that would get killed by politicals who cave into clueless nimbys and/or the impossible complex task of "consulting" with every native band along the route.

They cancelled after the NEP decided to start its hearing process over and said a new process would not only require social buy-in from virtually the entire country, but that the pipeline project would have to be evaluated based upon its contribution to CO2 emissions.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8715
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #199 on: March 20, 2018, 12:00:38 am »
They cancelled after the NEP decided to start its hearing process over and said a new process would not only require social buy-in from virtually the entire country, but that the pipeline project would have to be evaluated based upon its contribution to CO2 emissions.

yabut Argus, that ain't so! Quit making shyte up, hey.

regulators recused themselves cause the review took on an appearance of bias - you know, when the regulators met with a paid consultant of Trans Canada... so... a new panel had to be created. Notwithstanding, of course, you're mixing the/your presumed longer-term changes to the NEB process; whereas in the Energy East situation (along with any other existing major oil infrastructure bids), those bids were/are to be assessed under the law as it currently stood/stands.


Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #200 on: March 21, 2018, 11:53:10 am »
I think we should ban all foreign money coming into Canada for activism or protests.

The U.S.-based Tides Foundation, for example, directs funds to Canadian organizations such as Dogwood Initiative and Leadnow, both of whom featured prominently in the anti-pipeline protest on March 10th in Burnaby, and both of whom take an active role in B.C. elections, aiming to get pro-energy politicians out of office and anti-pipeline politicians elected.

Whose money is it that Tides pays out? And whose interests does it serve? What donor requests are being satisfied? This of course is the great unknown. Over the last few years Tides has granted $40 million to 100 Canadian anti-pipeline organizations who, in return, have done a fine job of constraining the Canadian economy and saving money for American buyers of Canadian oil.


http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/canadians-are-realizing-foreign-groups-sabotaged-our-energy-economy-for-no-good-reason
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #201 on: March 21, 2018, 12:53:29 pm »
I think we should ban all foreign money coming into Canada for activism or protests.

Hopefully that includes the thousands of times more money that come in for corporate activism.

Offline TimG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #202 on: March 21, 2018, 12:56:24 pm »
Hopefully that includes the thousands of times more money that come in for corporate activism.
A myth. The majority of money spent in Canada on political activism comes from unions, governments and NGOs. 

Offline wilber

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #203 on: March 21, 2018, 01:04:59 pm »
yabut Argus, that ain't so! Quit making shyte up, hey.

regulators recused themselves cause the review took on an appearance of bias - you know, when the regulators met with a paid consultant of Trans Canada... so... a new panel had to be created. Notwithstanding, of course, you're mixing the/your presumed longer-term changes to the NEB process; whereas in the Energy East situation (along with any other existing major oil infrastructure bids), those bids were/are to be assessed under the law as it currently stood/stands.

A lot probably had to do with a pipeline being a non starter with Quebec. Quebec seems fine with the St. Lawrence being filled with tankers bringing oil from North Africa but not with Canadian oil going in the other direction.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #204 on: March 21, 2018, 01:08:21 pm »
A myth. The majority of money spent in Canada on political activism comes from unions, governments and NGOs.

Sorry, but when you have Prime Minster Harper only meeting with corporate lobbyists and not even regular people or the press then we have an almost exclusive monopoly of political activism from the corporate sector, and most of that foreign.

Offline TimG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #205 on: March 21, 2018, 01:09:47 pm »
Quebec seems fine with the St. Lawrence being filled with tankers bringing oil from North Africa but not with Canadian oil going in the other direction.
To add insult to injury: the Liberals don't require tanker operators to account for all of the upstream and downstream CO2 emissions but they expect pipeline operators to do so. It is nonsense. We need a government that puts Canadian jobs first.

Offline TimG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #206 on: March 21, 2018, 01:13:21 pm »
Sorry, but when you have Prime Minster Harper only meeting with corporate lobbyists and not even regular people or the press then we have an almost exclusive monopoly of political activism from the corporate sector, and most of that foreign.
The question is how much money is spent. Lobbying goes on under all governments (the Liberals love their Chinese paymaters) but when it comes to public campaigns to influence people the vast majority of money comes from unions/NGOs and governments.

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #207 on: March 21, 2018, 01:22:54 pm »
To add insult to injury: the Liberals don't require tanker operators to account for all of the upstream and downstream CO2 emissions but they expect pipeline operators to do so. It is nonsense.

You are right, the climate change denier lobby groups have completely destroyed any proper GHG accounting. We should have had a decade or more of C02 taxation, with proper assignment of C02 emissions on both domestic and imported goods. Will you join me in asking for proper emissions regulations, accounting, and taxation?

A lot probably had to do with a pipeline being a non starter with Quebec. Quebec seems fine with the St. Lawrence being filled with tankers bringing oil from North Africa but not with Canadian oil going in the other direction.

For the second year in a row, Canadian imports of petroleum have declined. It was down 12% in 2017.

Here is the 2017 snapshot by source country:

United States - 52.9%
Saudi Arabia - 15.2%
Azerbaijan - 7.8%
Norway - 5.7%
Nigeria - 5.6%
Algeria - 4.8%
United Kingdom - 3.0%
Colombia - 1.3%
Angola - 1.0%
Russian Federation - 0.9%
Kazakhstan - 0.8%
Ivory Coast - 0.5%
Iraq - 0.4%
Mexico - 0.0%
Ghana - 0.0%
Oman - 0.0%
France - 0.0%
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 01:44:53 pm by ?Impact »

Offline wilber

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #208 on: March 21, 2018, 02:07:38 pm »
Almost all of those imports are going to Eastern and Central Canada.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #209 on: March 21, 2018, 02:25:59 pm »
Almost all of those imports are going to Eastern and Central Canada.

Non-US imports are almost exclusively to the Atlantic provinces. Most of Ontario and Quebec refineries are supplied by pipeline from the US, some of it American and some Western Canadian oil. Even the Jean Gaulin refinery gets its oil from the US, although it is shipped from the pipelines terminating in Montreal and down the St. Lawrence by tanker to Levis.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 02:31:36 pm by ?Impact »