Author Topic: The Wreck of BC  (Read 9892 times)

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Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #135 on: March 11, 2018, 01:57:14 pm »
The issue is that you said “most environmentalists” don’t make sacrifices. Now you’re asking me to show you that they do because I’m asking you to support your claim with evidence. Most environmentalists that I know recycle, bike to work, air dry their laundry, compost, and do all sorts of other lifestyle changes to addresss the problems. So I’m asking for empirical support that leads you to use a premise like “most environmentalists” don’t make sacrifices. It’s not true, as far as I know. You made the claim, so it’s also not on me to go disprove it. It’s on you to show support for it.

Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #136 on: March 11, 2018, 02:09:39 pm »
Most environmentalists that I know recycle, bike to work, air dry their laundry, compost, and do all sorts of other lifestyle changes to addresss the problems.
As I said above: none of those things represent sacrifices. A sacrifice is something that leaves someone significantly worse off (i.e. losing a job/extended unemployment) . I asked you to provide me an example of real sacrifices you have made and instead of answering question you respond with nonsense about the phoney sacrifices that you claim environmentalists make.

So I will ask again: what *real* sacrifice have you made for the environment?

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #137 on: March 11, 2018, 02:20:42 pm »
You are missing the point. The issue is not whether environmentalists "believe" they are doing something (because they obviously do). The issue is whether what they are willing to do anything that represents a serious sacrifice. Buying local/organic food when you have money is not a sacrifice. Buying carbon indulgences so you can fly to Mexico is not a sacrifice. Riding a bike to work when work is close enough and one has no physical limitations is not a sacrifice. .

why does it have to be a sacrifice in order for it to be valued?  Riding a bike to work is harder than jumping in the car, and more dangerous.  If one is willing to work harder and take more risks to support their ideological beliefs, why do you discount it? 

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Can you give me one example of a real sacrifice you have made. i.e. something that left you significantly poorer or worse off (i.e. something equivalent to the unemployment and forced relocation that you wish to impose on oil field workers)

People choose where to work and people who "choose" to work in a dying industry have only themselves to blame when there is no work for them.  If people want some kind guaranteed employment at a good rate of pay, they should pursue other options that are open to them rather than choosing to work in the fossil fuel industry.
 

Online wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #138 on: March 11, 2018, 02:24:14 pm »
How many city apartment and town home owners air dry their laundry. How many strata's even allow it? We used to when we had a single family dwelling with a yard. Not allowed to now. We have recycling and composting where I live as well. It's mandatory.
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Online wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #139 on: March 11, 2018, 02:27:52 pm »
why does it have to be a sacrifice in order for it to be valued?  Riding a bike to work is harder than jumping in the car, and more dangerous.  If one is willing to work harder and take more risks to support their ideological beliefs, why do you discount it? 



Sorry. If someone can save thousands of dollars a year by not having to own a vehicle, that is not a sacrifice.

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People choose where to work and people who "choose" to work in a dying industry have only themselves to blame when there is no work for them.  If people want some kind guaranteed employment at a good rate of pay, they should pursue other options that are open to them rather than choosing to work in the fossil fuel industry.
d

It's not a dying industry, that's why it needs an effing pipeline to get its product to market. Don't confuse dying with something you want to kill.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #140 on: March 11, 2018, 02:30:24 pm »
why does it have to be a sacrifice in order for it to be valued?
Because the same people are demanding that others make much greater sacrifice. If they only expected others to make the same sacrifice it would be judged differently.

People choose where to work and people who "choose" to work in a dying industry have only themselves to blame when there is no work for them.
The industry is not dying - it is being killed by self-absorbed narcissists that expect others to pay for their morality. There is a difference. How would you feel if a group of religious zealots decided that the industry you work in wrong and did everything they could to close it down? Would you really say it was your fault for working in a "dying" industry or would tell the zealots that they have no business demanding that others make sacrifices for their morality?

To add insult to irony: there is no plausible scenario where the need for fossil fuels will decline in BC so the suggestion that "fossil fuels" are a dying industry is quiet ridiculous. As long as BC needs fossil fuels people in BC have no business claiming that fossil fuels are a 'dying industry'.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 02:34:04 pm by TimG »

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #141 on: March 11, 2018, 02:35:54 pm »
They can’t. Even if they don’t live in a building heated by fossil fuels, everything they depend on to live that lifestyle has to be brought to them in transport that does use fossil fuels.

 ...and depend on people whose livelihoods do depend on fossil-fuel dependent industries-- mining, agriculture, forestry, tourism, fisheries, transportation, construction...

Maybe you're an accountant living in a green-energy home within walking distance of work... but your clients probably aren't.  The amount of business and employment in this province requiring cheap, plentiful fuel to be economically viable is staggering. 

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

guest4

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #142 on: March 11, 2018, 02:36:30 pm »

It's not a dying industry, that's why it needs an effing pipeline to get its product to market. Don't confuse dying with something you want to kill.

Perhaps it won't entirely die out, but eventually it will be very limited.  Perhps not even in my lifetime, but certainly in my grandchildren's lifetime.

Online wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #143 on: March 11, 2018, 02:49:04 pm »
Perhaps it won't entirely die out, but eventually it will be very limited.  Perhps not even in my lifetime, but certainly in my grandchildren's lifetime.

Limited by what?

If you folks are so concerned about the environment, why haven't you been out protesting the shipment of thermal coal from Delta Port, much of which comes from the US? Most of it is going to China as well. Guess it doesn't matter because it doesn't go through Vancouver harbour and past West Van and Point Grey.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #144 on: March 11, 2018, 03:25:22 pm »
How would you feel if a group of religious zealots decided that the industry you work in wrong and did everything they could to close it down?

I see, when you are on the wrong side of things, resort to pejoratives.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #145 on: March 11, 2018, 03:26:50 pm »
How many city apartment and town home owners air dry their laundry. How many strata's even allow it? We used to when we had a single family dwelling with a yard. Not allowed to now. We have recycling and composting where I live as well. It's mandatory.

Still popular in my neighbourhood in Montreal, no where near as much as when I was a child. I remember 100% usage of clothes lines then, today it is about 30%.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #146 on: March 11, 2018, 03:28:32 pm »
So I will ask again: what *real* sacrifice have you made for the environment?

2 of my 3 kids used almost exclusively cloth diapers, the first was laundered at home as well.

Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #147 on: March 11, 2018, 03:30:18 pm »
I see, when you are on the wrong side of things, resort to pejoratives.
"pejoratives"? The context of the post was to get dia to look at things from a different perspective. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not environmentalists are the modern day Puritans who seek to use to the state to enforce their morals on others. The fact that Puritans were absolutely convinced of the truth of the beliefs does not make them any less odious from the perspective of a non-believer.

Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #148 on: March 11, 2018, 03:34:08 pm »
2 of my 3 kids used almost exclusively cloth diapers, the first was laundered at home as well.
More than most but it does not meet the criteria of being equivalent to forcing someone into the unemployment line. It also does not make up for the fact that you had 3 kids in the first place (http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/children-carbon-footprint-climate-change-damage-having-kids-research-a7837961.html)

Online wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #149 on: March 11, 2018, 03:36:53 pm »
2 of my 3 kids used almost exclusively cloth diapers, the first was laundered at home as well.

All of our kids were brought up on cloth diapers, had a clothesline that went from one corner of the back yard to the other but that was the seventies. We did it because we were cheap.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC