Author Topic: The Wreck of BC  (Read 9848 times)

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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2018, 11:54:42 am »
She won't do it for the same reason Trump won't.  It'll hurt her province just as much.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2018, 02:41:09 pm »
Lougheed did it during the NEP dispute with Ottawa and it worked. There is bipartisan and popular support for this in Alberta.

And BC buys gas from Washington if this happens.

I read that 60% of goods to Alberta come through BC ports.   BC turns away any ships at the ports that have goods that have Alberta as their destination.   

A “trade war” would be sheer stupidity.  Good luck with that Alberta...

But what’s happening is politics.  Victimhood is popular with Alberta voters and Notley is playing it up.

Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2018, 04:46:21 pm »
A “trade war” would be sheer stupidity.  Good luck with that Alberta...
You misunderstand the point. The federal government has approved the pipeline and BC is not constitutionally allowed to stop it. However, the federal Liberals would rather not pay the political cost of enforcing its jurisdiction. The point of any actions by alberta are to create as much chaos as possible in order to force the feds to get off the fence and enforce its jurisdiction.

BTW: BC politicians are the 'Trump-style' self-centered SOBs in this drama because they seem to think they can be part of the Canadian confederation without having to make concessions to the other partners. Anything Alberta does is in response the SOBs in BC that created the mess in the first place.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 04:52:53 pm by TimG »

Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2018, 06:05:01 pm »
And BC buys gas from Washington if this happens.

I read that 60% of goods to Alberta come through BC ports.   BC turns away any ships at the ports that have goods that have Alberta as their destination.   

A “trade war” would be sheer stupidity.  Good luck with that Alberta...

But what’s happening is politics.  Victimhood is popular with Alberta voters and Notley is playing it up.

Do you seriously think ships carry cargo that is destined for Alberta only? Start screwing with shipping companies and they will just go to Seattle. Seattle will jump for joy as BC shoots itself in the foot yet again.

When Lougheed cut back production during the NEP, Prince Indigeous' old man got the point pretty quick.
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2018, 06:12:50 pm »
She won't do it for the same reason Trump won't.  It'll hurt her province just as much.

It's hurting her province already, that's the point. They have to sell their oil to the US at a 30% discount because they can't access any other markets.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2018, 07:34:02 pm »
Do you seriously think ships carry cargo that is destined for Alberta only? Start screwing with shipping companies and they will just go to Seattle. Seattle will jump for joy as BC shoots itself in the foot yet again.

When Lougheed cut back production during the NEP, Prince Indigeous' old man got the point pretty quick.

Sure...   good luck with your markets when zero oils flows through pipelines in BC.  If they thought not being able to expand oil exports was bad, wait until BC puts a big plug in the existing pipeline.

Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2018, 08:00:15 pm »
Sure...   good luck with your markets when zero oils flows through pipelines in BC.  If they thought not being able to expand oil exports was bad, wait until BC puts a big plug in the existing pipeline.

It's not my oil, I'm a British Columbian born and bred but I'm a Canadian first.

BC get's most of it's refined petroleum products from Alberta, US refineries take up the slack. When a Washington State refinery goes down for maintenance, it has the same effect on BC gas prices as an Alberta refinery going down. BC is dependent on Alberta and the US for most of its petroleum products. BC has one refinery. Put a plug in the existing pipeline and it will be dependent on other countries for all of its petroleum products. You like three bucks a litre for gas? Fill your boots. Shut down the port and YVR because ships and aircraft can't get fuel. Fill your boots.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 08:03:09 pm by wilber »
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2018, 08:41:33 pm »
It's not my oil, I'm a British Columbian born and bred but I'm a Canadian first.

I wasn’t saying “your” as in Wilbur.   The universal “your”. 

Quote
BC get's most of it's refined petroleum products from Alberta, US refineries take up the slack. When a Washington State refinery goes down for maintenance, it has the same effect on BC gas prices as an Alberta refinery going down. BC is dependent on Alberta and the US for most of its petroleum products. BC has one refinery. Put a plug in the existing pipeline and it will be dependent on other countries for all of its petroleum products. You like three bucks a litre for gas? Fill your boots. Shut down the port and YVR because ships and aircraft can't get fuel. Fill your boots.

All irrelevant....    if Alberta turns off the taps to BC, then BC gets American gas and turns off the existing pipeline.  A trade war is sheer stupidity.  BC already took the high road by not retaliating and allowing the courts to settle the jurisdictional issues.  Notley is posturing for the election. 

Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2018, 09:26:47 pm »
I wasn’t saying “your” as in Wilbur.   The universal “your”. 

All irrelevant....    if Alberta turns off the taps to BC, then BC gets American gas and turns off the existing pipeline.  A trade war is sheer stupidity.  BC already took the high road by not retaliating and allowing the courts to settle the jurisdictional issues.  Notley is posturing for the election.

American refineries are strapped as well. If you think they can automatically ramp up enough capacity to replace Alberta product you are dreaming. Why do you think gas prices don't go up and down with oil prices? We are paying as much for gas in BC as we did when oil was over $100 a barrel. Refinery capacity. There are two reasons more refineries aren't being built. One is lower mainland style nimbyism and the other is why would an oil company spend a billion bucks building a new refinery if it means they just get less money for their product. They tailor their refinery capacity to meet demand while getting the maximum amount for what they produce. That's why prices rocket  up whenever a single refinery on either side of the border goes off line.
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2018, 09:34:36 pm »
BTW, how are you planning to get all that American product, with those tankers you seem to hate or some kind of pipeline?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline msj

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2018, 11:51:13 pm »
My support for the TMX is waivering thanks to Kenney.

Which sux because I’m now getting desperate and looking at GM Bolts and Hyundai Ioniq’s.

Which goes against my nature since I’m currently driving a 2014 model (325hp ICE)  which I prefer not to replace until at least 2026 because I’m a cheap accountant.

But, you know, f^ck Kenney so....
I've gotta have more cow bell! -Bruce Dickinson

Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2018, 08:34:09 am »
My support for the TMX is waivering thanks to Kenney.
His rhetoric may be over the top but what are the alternatives? Sit by quietly until Kinder Morgan gives up due to excessive bureaucratic delays? Remember that delay = win for Horgan and other pipeline opponents. So raising the stakes now before it is clear that it is necessary is a rational strategy. Also, in the world of Trump too many people seem to naively believe they can be arrogant SOBs and others will be polite. When it comes to being arrogant Trump-like SOBs is was the BC politicians who started the fight. If Alberta responds with the same kind of behavior the ultimate blame rests with the BC politicians who started it with the "do whatever we can to block the pipeline" rhetoric.

Which sux because I’m now getting desperate and looking at GM Bolts and Hyundai Ioniq’s.
Sure - hedge your bets with an ICE vehicle that can play at being an EV. These types of cars are the future but they will still need a reliable source of gasoline.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 09:05:35 am by TimG »

Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2018, 09:28:32 am »
That might solve your personal transportation but if the NDP and Greens had their way a few years ago there would be no Peace project and we would be importing power to run your EV.

Just about everything we consume comes to us in something powered by a Diesel engine. What about them?

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Offline msj

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2018, 10:21:25 am »
Ultimately this is a clash of views on the future.

In one corner are the enviro-freaks who are panicking and would destroy economies because of their belief that the future looks so doomsday. They will do their best to bring unrefined granola bars to everyone within a 100km radius).

On the other side are the entrenched industrialist who will do anything to maintain their current position. They will sink to new lows in corruption resulting in poorly conceived projects.

Those who see mostly positive change that will undermine the entrenched interests while serving the fruit picker fantasies can just watch this poop show from the sidelines and hope that switchng over to decent EV’s will be enough to dampen oil demand to send a message to the crazies in Saudi Arabia and Alberta to go hump themselves while allowing enough clean oxygen to fill the fruit pickers brains to enlighten them.


I've gotta have more cow bell! -Bruce Dickinson

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2018, 10:34:14 am »
It's hurting her province already, that's the point. They have to sell their oil to the US at a 30% discount because they can't access any other markets.

We have the coast and we can make things way worse if this turns into an all out war.  It'll hurt us and it'll hurt them, that's why I think Notley is stupid to turn this into a trade war. 

She knows she'll never win against Kenney and she's desperately trying to out-Kenney Kenney.  In turn she's making this issue more contentious than need be.

Horgan is protecting our interests.  The locals here overwhelmingly don't want the expansion and I don't blame them (us).  I certainly don't want to see a 7 fold increase in tankers in Metro Vancouver. 

Burnaby is the next municipality over from me.  It doesn't matter how rare oil spills are, a 7 fold increase = 7 times more likely to happen.