Author Topic: The Wreck of BC  (Read 4942 times)

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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2018, 11:50:20 am »
For me the most interesting part was this:
Quote
A trove of incriminating paper trails only now coming to light shows Clark’s Liberals knew very well what was happening.

For now, the job of sorting everything out has fallen mostly to David Eby, B.C.’s 41-year-old Justice Minister and Attorney-General. Two months ago, in a speech at a conference co-hosted by Transparency International Canada and the International Centre for Criminal Law Reform, Eby described Vancouver and British Columbia in the most accurately unflattering terms.

“We knew there was something strange going on, but, my God, we had no idea it was this big,” Eby said. British Columbia had become reduced to “a jurisdiction where the rules do not apply to white collar crime, fraud, tax evasion and money laundering, where even if the rules do apply, enforcement is absent.”

Over the past 10 years, the B.C. Securities Commission had collected less than two per cent of more than a half a billion dollars in fines levied against a rogue’s gallery of fraudsters, swindlers and ripoff artists.

I recall reading somewhere before that BC was "the wild west" when it came to law and enforcement when it came to a variety of white collar crime.  And I've always been highly suspicious of the relationship between the BC Liberals and big business-- in particular the mining industry. Things like their dogged determination to get the Prosperity Lake mine approved on behalf of the developer, or the complete lack of consequence in wake of the Mount Polley mine disaster, definitely make me wonder. Hearing that the government only bothered to collect about 2% of the fines they've levied in the past 10 years raises more questions.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2018, 02:05:55 pm »
It's unclear to me why we're blaming Horgan for a war;

Because he started it.

Notley decided to go after our wine industry, which hurts her province as much as it hurts ours.   

I think Albertans can probably survive just fine without BC wine.   It was a well-chosen target for retaliation because it has a high profile in BC, but relatively modest in terms of actual economic significance.  Except here in Kim Country, where this has been a big topic on the radio every day for the past week. 


if Horgan/Weaver were elected on a Green platform, it's what the people of BC chose, eh?  We're allowed to do that.  Was Notley elected to hinder trade between the provinces?   

Was Horgan?

The BC election was run after the Kinder-Morgan expansion was already approved by the federal government, so if BC voters thought that electing Horgan was going to reverse the approval, they got suckered.

Horgan's review is a stall-tactic.  He knows he can't overrule the federal government but is hoping to delay the project enough that the industry gets fed up and quits.


Perhaps Notley is simply virtue-signalling?

Absolutely.  She has to be seen to be standing up for Alberta's oil industry.  If not, she will be crushed in the next election, and BC can deal with Jason Kenney instead. If you think Notley is being unpleasant about this, just wait until you see Kenney.

And Horgan is also virtue-signaling here, as he's trying to be seen standing up for the environment after disappointing green (and Green) voters on the Site C Dam.

 -k
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Offline the_squid

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2018, 02:24:04 pm »
I think the trad war is hilarious...   

BC wants to ensure oil is properly cleaned up....    Alberta wants none of it...   bans BC wines!   Albertan buiseness folks have invested MILLIONS into BC wineries...   LOL

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/british-columbia-wine-alberta-owners-penticton-produced-1.4524867

Of course, they wouldn’t ban BC beer...   since AB beer is dog piss.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2018, 02:45:17 pm »
I think the trad war is hilarious...   

BC wants to ensure oil is properly cleaned up....   

BC does not give a shit about oil being properly cleaned up. BC wants no pipelines. Period. End of story. Not with a hundred conditions, or a thousand or ten thousand. The only pipelines they want are the ones bringing oil and gasoline they themselves use.

I still think a better response would be banning aircraft fuel from the existing pipeline on some environmental pretext or another. Of course, BC can always import it in big tankers. I'm sure highly flammable jet fuel won't be any kind of hazard to their ports.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 02:47:31 pm by SirJohn »
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2018, 09:10:00 pm »
They already shot down a jet fuel pipeline to YVR, so of course it has to be brought in by truck and barge.
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Offline msj

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2018, 09:24:54 pm »
Trucking and barging jet fuel would be a waste given that they actually pipe it directly: https://www.kindermorgan.com/business/canada/transmountain_jetfuel.aspx

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Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2018, 09:33:36 pm »
Trucking and barging jet fuel would be a waste given that they actually pipe it directly: https://www.kindermorgan.com/business/canada/transmountain_jetfuel.aspx

I'm a little behind the times, it was an expansion and relocation that was opposed and held up for several years. I now see that it was approved last year and will be operating in 2019. Of course the cost of the project will now be double.
https://biv.com/article/2017/06/new-150-million-jet-fuel-pipeline-project-underway

No worries though, the increase in cost will just be added to your plane ticket.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 10:03:00 pm by wilber »
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Offline msj

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2018, 01:14:13 am »
Oh no, an extra buck for my next trip.

Whatever will I do?

I know, I’ll buy a cheaper Gray Monk merlot rather than a more expensive La Stella.  But just this one time because La Stella is stellar.

Oh, I suffer. 

Or maybe I can switch to a nice vegatarian meal and skip some Alberta beef to save a few bucks....



eta: ok, price check on the wine. Gray Monk merlot is $21 a bottle compared to the $90 for the La Stella. Will have to do a tasting to see if the extra $70 is worth it.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 01:18:56 am by msj »
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2018, 09:40:14 am »
Oh no, an extra buck for my next trip.

Whatever will I do?

I know, I’ll buy a cheaper Gray Monk merlot rather than a more expensive La Stella.  But just this one time because La Stella is stellar.

Oh, I suffer. 

Or maybe I can switch to a nice vegatarian meal and skip some Alberta beef to save a few bucks....



eta: ok, price check on the wine. Gray Monk merlot is $21 a bottle compared to the $90 for the La Stella. Will have to do a tasting to see if the extra $70 is worth it.

The point is this nonsense just drives prices up and discourages investment. Rejoice, you might get your wine cheaper because BC producers have just lost their second biggest market. I'm sure they are ecstatic about that. Then again, the government will probably put our prices up because of the revenue they are losing.

https://country105.com/news/4012951/alberta-beef-boycott-would-have-been-banning-our-own-product-b-c-cattlemen/

https://globalnews.ca/news/4010495/albertans-are-b-c-s-3rd-biggest-tourism-spenders-could-trade-war-put-that-at-risk/
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2018, 10:27:48 am »
Just listening to Micheal Campbell this morning. He made the point that by having to sell our oil to the US at up to $30 a barrel less than world price, that is a $70M gift we are giving American consumers and business every day. That's $2.5 billion a year. In the mean time, we spend 30B a year on foreign oil at world price because we can't build a pipeline in our own friggin country.
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2018, 01:22:24 pm »
I think the trad war is hilarious...   

BC wants to ensure oil is properly cleaned up....    Alberta wants none of it...   bans BC wines!   Albertan buiseness folks have invested MILLIONS into BC wineries...   LOL

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/british-columbia-wine-alberta-owners-penticton-produced-1.4524867

Of course, they wouldn’t ban BC beer...   since AB beer is dog piss.

You think those Alberta owned wineries don't pay BC business taxes, as well as employ local people and suppliers and their employees who also pay BC taxes?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2018, 02:28:38 pm »
Whatever will I do?
Too many people BC seem to admire Trump for his f-everyone else, screw your neighbors approach to diplomacy and a complete ignorance for facts or logic. Which is kind of ironic since most people in BC claim to despise the guy while they imitate him.

The core of this issue are the principles of confederation. BC joined the union and has benefit immensely and that means it has a moral and legal obligation to reciprocate. This means living with the risks that come with shipping goods from other provinces.

It is also ironic that all of oil/gas spills off the coast in the last few years have come from non-oil related shipping - something that accounts for >85% of the traffic in the port of Vancouver even when the pipeline expansion goes ahead.

This will get nasty before it ends. The federal government has a lot of power to force the BC government to comply.  The question is whether it will feel compeled to use it.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 02:50:17 pm by TimG »

Offline the_squid

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2018, 02:57:44 pm »
Saying BCers admire Trump is asinine and a red herring.  What the hell does Trump have to do with anything?? ::)

Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2018, 03:09:28 pm »
Saying BCers admire Trump is asinine and a red herring.  What the hell does Trump have to do with anything??
The comparison is not wrong even if you dislike it. Please explain why the f-you approach that many in BC take towards Alberta is any different that the f-you approach that Trump takes towards the US trading partners? Don't bother trying to claim that the "environmental" reasons claimed are any less bogus that the "dumping" claims the the Trump administration loves. They aren't.

You also ignored the more important part: BC joined the confederation and has benefit immensely and that means it has a moral and legal obligation to reciprocate.

If BC refuses to honour the constitution we will have a situation where the federal government will be forced to resort to extraordinary measures such as freezing all of the accounts of the government of BC. Many in BC may think they can shrug off bans on wine or loss of jet fuel shipments but these actions are just to make a point. The nuclear option exists and the sane people would look for a compromise that allows the pipeline to get built instead of pushing for a crisis where the nuclear option looks viable.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 03:17:51 pm by TimG »

Offline Omni

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2018, 03:11:02 pm »
Saying BCers admire Trump is asinine and a red herring.  What the hell does Trump have to do with anything?? ::)

I'm a BC'er and I would have to look hard to find a Trump supporter anywhere I've been, so yeah, total red herring.