Author Topic: Separatism Culture  (Read 1676 times)

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Offline the_squid

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Separatism Culture
« on: December 12, 2018, 11:36:48 am »
Alberta talks about separating from Canada once again....  and it's as stupid as ever!

Good luck with a pipeline when you're a landlocked country.

Quote
Recently, Wilson tweeted that environmental “traitors” should be hanged.

“Bastards, slimy bastards,” Wilson called them. He didn’t do that just once — it was a repeated theme over several tweets.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/braid-talk-of-alberta-exit-is-out-in-the-open-again

They have a boom/bust resource economy that didn't put any money away for future busts and they want to blame a Trudeau...   they can't blame the old one anymore though.  Although, many still do...   like the dead guy is responsible for oil prices.  Then they blame transfer payments...   not realizing that Harper and Kenney were in gov't for 11 years and thought they were a great idea.

Go already.  Bon chance!

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Offline waldo

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2018, 12:59:02 pm »
Alberta talks about separating from Canada once again....  and it's as stupid as ever!

no - "Alberta" isn't talking... scattered mini-pockets of blustering/blathering/blowhardy persons are. Same ole, same ole - idgits trotting out equalization & transfer payments... doing so while knowing little-to-nothing about them! Took a look at Wilson's twitter feed and tweets replies within: lots of wunderkinds talking up wanting to become the 51st state... others so confidently speaking for all western provinces in carving out the splitting off of MB, SK, AB, BC... some wizards from northern BC talking up a split to ensure AB gets its coastal access... idgits! Well done Brett Wilson - ever beholding to his BigOil buddies.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2018, 08:03:44 pm »
Alberta talks about separating from Canada once again....  and it's as stupid as ever!

Good luck with a pipeline when you're a landlocked country.

They have a boom/bust resource economy that didn't put any money away for future busts and they want to blame a Trudeau...   they can't blame the old one anymore though.  Although, many still do...   like the dead guy is responsible for oil prices.  Then they blame transfer payments...   not realizing that Harper and Kenney were in gov't for 11 years and thought they were a great idea.

Go already.  Bon chance!


People are furious.  What else did you expect?

Trudeau and McKenna handed the premiership of Alberta to Jason Kenney when they **** up the consultations for the Trans Mountain expansion.  With a pipeline, Notley would have had a fighting chance, but with the pipeline now on ice for the foreseeable future, a UCP win is guaranteed.


Alberta voters are going to give Kenney an overwhelming mandate to take a gas can and a torch to anything and everything he can-- Trudeau's national carbon plan and equalization payments will be at the top of the list-- because they're in a fighting mood and want fighting politics right now.

Notley tried "social license" and building an alliance with the federal government, and objectively, that approach has been a failure. People want a more combative approach now, and Kenney will happily oblige when he is premier.  This is going to get ugly, just as anybody with an ounce of sense knew it would.

 -k
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Offline waldo

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2018, 12:02:30 am »
Trudeau and McKenna handed the premiership of Alberta to Jason Kenney when they **** up the consultations for the Trans Mountain expansion.

care to comment on what would have happened if the Liberal government hadn't stepped in with a purchase? By the by - just how were said consultations, "f**cked up"?

Offline the_squid

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2018, 12:13:47 am »
People are furious about what?  Oil prices? 

The Trudeau gov’t  bought the damn pipeline!  But let’s blame them for....  something!  (Drama teacher!!!)  ::)

Notley never had a chance....   It was a fluke win.  It seems Albertans are only happy when the PCs are slashing welfare mother’s cheques and sending children to work in the mines (tar sands??)   

The pipeline will go ahead eventually, once the proper consultations have completed.   The oil isn’t going anywhere...   in fact, production was cut by government.

Whining about separating from Canada is a bit much to take though.  And, given Albertan’s disdain for Quebec separatism, it’s monumentally hypocritical.

   Take your ball and go already....   
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 12:17:09 am by the_squid »
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Online wilber

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2018, 12:26:31 am »
Alberta talks about separating from Canada once again....  and it's as stupid as ever!

Good luck with a pipeline when you're a landlocked country.

They have a boom/bust resource economy that didn't put any money away for future busts and they want to blame a Trudeau...   they can't blame the old one anymore though.  Although, many still do...   like the dead guy is responsible for oil prices.  Then they blame transfer payments...   not realizing that Harper and Kenney were in gov't for 11 years and thought they were a great idea.

Go already.  Bon chance!


Wouldn’t really matter. An independent Alberta really could cut BC off from the rest of Canada. That would make the Port of Vancouver redundant as the ROC would find it more convenient to ship from Seattle. BC would have no choice but to come to some sort of arrangement with Alta and so would the ROC.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2018, 12:30:33 am »
Wouldn’t really matter. An independent Alberta really could cut BC off from the rest of Canada. That would make the Port of Vancouver redundant as the ROC would find it more convenient to ship from Seattle. BC would have no choice but to come to some sort of arrangement with Alta and so would the ROC.

A lot of assumptions there.
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Online wilber

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2018, 12:37:45 am »
I think they are also mad because the Liberals extended the equalization payments to 2024 which means Quebec will continue to get 19B a year while it posts surplus’s as Alberta and Saskatchewan are suffering and get nothing. They will continue paying.
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Online wilber

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2018, 12:42:04 am »
A lot of assumptions there.


Not really, logic. BC also gets almost all of its crude oil and refined products from either Alberta or crude from Alberta. If you were the ROC shipping to and from Asia, would you want to cross borders once or twice with your  stuff getting to and from a Pacific port?
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2018, 12:55:24 am »


Not really, logic. BC also gets almost all of its crude oil and refined products from either Alberta or crude from Alberta. If you were the ROC shipping to and from Asia, would you want to cross borders once or twice with your  stuff getting to and from a Pacific port?

Logic!  LOL. Assumptions...   it depends on our arrangement with the new country of Alberta...  Maybe they’d like to use our ports...   

And if Canada is subdividable, then so is Alberta....   First Nations still have Canadian Constitutional rights....   you think they want to take their chances with a conservative Alberta?  Why wouldn’t they stick with Canada?
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Online wilber

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2018, 09:31:11 am »
Logic!  LOL. Assumptions...   it depends on our arrangement with the new country of Alberta...  Maybe they’d like to use our ports...   

And if Canada is subdividable, then so is Alberta....   First Nations still have Canadian Constitutional rights....   you think they want to take their chances with a conservative Alberta?  Why wouldn’t they stick with Canada?

The problem right now is BC trying to deny Alberta the use of its ports. There is no reason to think an independent Alberta wouldn’t have more leverage.

That’s what I am saying. Just telling Alta too bad ,you are land locked  and we don’t need you is just stupid, B C would need Alberta just as much as it would need us. Do you really want to open up that Constitutional can of worms? If Alta is subdividable so is ROC including B.C.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 09:50:27 am by wilber »
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2018, 09:34:41 am »
care to comment on what would have happened if the Liberal government hadn't stepped in with a purchase?

Certainly Canadians are now proud owners of a 65 year old pipeline that generates $300 million a year in revenue. That doesn't actually get an expansion built.

By the by - just how were said consultations, "f**cked up"?

In 2016, Judge Eleanor Dawson overturned the Northern Gateway approval citing the inadequate consultation process and outlining the court's opinion of what's required. Apparently Trudeau and friends didn't bother to actually read her ruling, because Dawson delivered the exact same ruling 2 years later, citing the exact same deficiencies.

The first time was understandable because the rules were unclear. But Dawson spelled out what was required and they went and **** it up anyway.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2018, 09:48:31 am »
People are furious about what?  Oil prices? 

The ongoing failure of the government to get a pipeline built.



The latest outrage is sparked by this:

https://www.nsnews.com/quebec-slams-door-on-new-brunswick-s-pipeline-dream-at-premiers-meeting-1.23522852

New Brunswick's premier approaches Quebec's premier regarding a pipeline to Eastern Canada, and Quebec's premier says "le no. Le dirty oil is unacceptable to us."

And then Quebec turns around and accepts a $1.4 billion boost to their equalization take.  They happily accept all the money the national economy puts into Quebec, but they don't give a **** about helping care for the national economy that provides it to them.


The Trudeau gov’t  bought the damn pipeline!  But let’s blame them for....  something!  (Drama teacher!!!)  ::)

Notley never had a chance....   It was a fluke win.  It seems Albertans are only happy when the PCs are slashing welfare mother’s cheques and sending children to work in the mines (tar sands??)   

The pipeline will go ahead eventually, once the proper consultations have completed.   The oil isn’t going anywhere...   in fact, production was cut by government.

The pipeline will eventually clear this hurdle, at which point Horgan and Weaver will just start flinging more lawsuits at it.

Whining about separating from Canada is a bit much to take though.  And, given Albertan’s disdain for Quebec separatism, it’s monumentally hypocritical.

   Take your ball and go already....

Separatism isn't a mainstream sentiment in Alberta.  But anger is.  If Horgan and Weaver can file lawsuit after lawsuit against the pipeline expansion, Kenney and friends will certainly not feel guilty about using "every tool in the toolbox" to battle carbon taxes and equalization and anything else they can think of to punch the federal government in the face.  That's what voters are in the mood for right now.

 -k
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Online wilber

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2018, 09:59:01 am »
This  parochial bullshit is going to kill this country.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Separatism Culture
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2018, 10:08:35 am »
New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs:

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While he remained hopeful, Higgs also offered a warning.

The country is still very much dependent on oil revenues and if Alberta continues to suffer economically, it will hurt the entire country — regardless of how much hydroelectricity Quebec has.

He said New Brunswick continues to receive federal equalization payments, which represent 30 per cent of the province's budget.

Quebec is also a major benefactor of equalization, while Alberta remains a "have province" that subsidizes others.

"Alberta has been feeding our kids for a long time with the royalties, with the money that has come from oil," Higgs said.

"My concern is how will the federal government continue to pay, how will transfer payments survive in the current form? Will the next message be that transfer payments need to be cut because the revenue is no longer there?"

 -k