Author Topic: Patrick Brown #MeToo  (Read 3921 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #405 on: February 20, 2018, 12:18:49 pm »
At this point those allegations are now

That would be your perception of the allegations.

Offline kimmy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5033
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #406 on: February 21, 2018, 09:25:29 am »
That would be your perception of the allegations.
...
interestingly, your summary of the allegations ala your investment in amateur sleuthing, doesn't quite align with what's presented in the original CTV article that references 2 reporters/journalists in the byline. I'm referring to the actual allegations and accuser comments/interpretations of actions taken, as stated, as reaffirmed by CTV in recent days (as quoted in an earlier post)... that is to say, CTV standing by its reporting & the accusers standing by their allegations.

Ok, either or both of you, please feel free to explain where my terse summary fails to match the claims in the CTV article.

I think the answer comes down to "...it sounded more sympathetic the way CTV wrote it."

Your reference to HR has a coincidentally related comment from the related accuser:
Quote
"I didn’t think that there was any sort of recourse that I could take because I did think this is something that in maybe in another job, I would go to maybe HR about. But I didn’t feel, I didn’t even know who HR was in this context. Particularly being in a constituency office. I mean, I just didn’t know what to do."
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/patrick-brown-denies-sexual-misconduct-allegations-from-two-women-resigns-as-ontario-pc-leader-1.3774686

And I wrote much earlier in the thread that this is the one aspect of the story where I had some sympathy for the accuser. Lots of women are in a similar situation and have no resources to go to. Something like this could have been addressed quickly and easily.   That aspect of the story could have been the focus. 

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8714
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #407 on: February 21, 2018, 06:15:51 pm »
Ok, either or both of you, please feel free to explain where my terse summary fails to match the claims in the CTV article.

"terse"... yes, you certainly did spare words - you know, like the actual words from the accusers; the words that speak to their perspective and interpretation of actions taken against them. That you would "tersely summarize" one of those accusers words/perspective/interpretation as "consensual", clearly speaks volumes on your amateur hours efforts to double-down on, "accusing the accusers".
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline kimmy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5033
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #408 on: February 21, 2018, 10:47:43 pm »
"terse"... yes, you certainly did spare words - you know, like the actual words from the accusers; the words that speak to their perspective and interpretation of actions taken against them. That you would "tersely summarize" one of those accusers words/perspective/interpretation as "consensual",

In short: stripped of all the whiny verbiage, it boils down to, as I said earlier:

"...it sounded more sympathetic the way CTV wrote it."

clearly speaks volumes on your amateur hours efforts to double-down on, "accusing the accusers".

I'm not "accusing the accusers" of anything.  I'm pointing out that these "accusations" amount to nothing. There's no substance to either of them.  If this were a trial, the judge would dismiss it on the grounds that no crime has been alleged.


And it's **** sad that this is what "#MeToo" has turned into.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8714
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #409 on: February 21, 2018, 11:57:05 pm »
In short: stripped of all the whiny verbiage, it boils down to, as I said earlier:

"...it sounded more sympathetic the way CTV wrote it."

no - that original cited CTV read includes the accusations from the perspective and interpretation of the accusers. Your want to claim that as a, as you say, "sympathetic write", should be prefaced by you highlighting the accused chose, apparently per legal direction, not to respond to a request for his perspective, for his interpretation.

I'm not "accusing the accusers" of anything.  I'm pointing out that these "accusations" amount to nothing. There's no substance to either of them.  If this were a trial, the judge would dismiss it on the grounds that no crime has been alleged.

And it's **** sad that this is what "#MeToo" has turned into.

sure you're making your own accusations against the accusers - you're claiming the accusations are unwarranted... and now frivolous. Effectively, you're accusing the accusers of fraud, perhaps bordering on malicious intent... although I'll wait for you to confirm the latter intent aspect.

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12466
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #410 on: February 24, 2018, 09:46:00 am »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/brown-ontario-pc-libel-suit-1.4550333

Wow.  He's suing.  Isn't he ?   ???

Is a 'notice of libel' the same as filing a lawsuit or just a preceding step ?  Is this a commonly known thing that I just don't understand or did the article fail to inform the reader ?


guest4

  • Guest
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #411 on: February 24, 2018, 10:23:05 am »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/brown-ontario-pc-libel-suit-1.4550333

Wow.  He's suing.  Isn't he ?   ???

Is a 'notice of libel' the same as filing a lawsuit or just a preceding step ?  Is this a commonly known thing that I just don't understand or did the article fail to inform the reader ?

Quote
If you are suing a newspaper, radio or television station, you must usually give them notice of your intention to sue within six weeks of learning of the incident, and start your lawsuit within three months

https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/defamation-libel-and-slander/

I am very interested in the result.  If he is successful and a heavy enough penalty is assessed against CTV, then presumably media outlets will be more careful and less sensational. 

Useful Useful x 1 View List

Offline kimmy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5033
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #412 on: February 24, 2018, 12:27:37 pm »
no - that original cited CTV read includes the accusations from the perspective and interpretation of the accusers. Your want to claim that as a, as you say, "sympathetic write", should be prefaced by you highlighting the accused chose, apparently per legal direction, not to respond to a request for his perspective, for his interpretation.

We didn't need Brown's side of the story to know that nothing of import has been alleged against him.

sure you're making your own accusations against the accusers - you're claiming the accusations are unwarranted... and now frivolous.

I am just pointing out that these "accusations" aren't actually accusing him of doing anything approaching the claim of "abuse" as CTV called it.

Effectively, you're accusing the accusers of fraud, perhaps bordering on malicious intent... although I'll wait for you to confirm the latter intent aspect.

That's retarded.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8714
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #413 on: February 24, 2018, 04:17:39 pm »
We didn't need Brown's side of the story to know that nothing of import has been alleged against him.

I am just pointing out that these "accusations" aren't actually accusing him of doing anything approaching the claim of "abuse" as CTV called it.

ya, ya - you lost all credibility when you tagged one of the accusers claims as nothing more than "consensual relations"... when, for some reason, you opted to ply your amateur-hour sleuthing to focus on anything but the actual allegations and perspective/interpretation of the accusers.

but don't stop there! I gave you an opening to question/explain your interpretation of the motives of the accusers - for some reason you didn't bite yet... go figure!

Offline kimmy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5033
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #414 on: February 26, 2018, 09:47:53 am »
ya, ya - you lost all credibility when you tagged one of the accusers claims as nothing more than "consensual relations"...

Ok, show me in either of the accuser accounts where anything non-consensual happened. The part where he kissed girl #2 and she told him to stop, and he stopped?  The part where he took out his **** and girl #1 gave him a hummer?

when, for some reason, you opted to ply your amateur-hour sleuthing to focus on anything but the actual allegations and perspective/interpretation of the accusers.

This is bullshit.  Well before I started any "amateur-hour sleuthing", I was pointing out out that none of the allegations made against Brown amount to "abuse" or "misconduct".  I asked people to explain what they thought Brown was guilty of, and people responded with either "well, he's not guilty of anything, he's just a creep" or hung their hat on the one accuser being an "underage, highschool girl", which of course isn't illegal and also isn't even true anymore.

but don't stop there! I gave you an opening to question/explain your interpretation of the motives of the accusers - for some reason you didn't bite yet... go figure!

"You gave me an opening".   :D  You're so full of yourself.

Suggesting they have a "motive" at all suggests that they're part of a plot.  I think these are just two young women who have told their stories. Their stories may be true or at least partly true.  But so what?


 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #415 on: February 26, 2018, 10:04:36 am »
Ok, show me in either of the accuser accounts where anything non-consensual happened.

So, you agree with me that Patrick Brown is another Bill Clinton.

Offline kimmy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5033
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #416 on: February 26, 2018, 10:08:04 am »
So, you agree with me that Patrick Brown is another Bill Clinton.

I'm not interested in defending Brown's character.  I don't follow Ontario politics, I don't care about Ontario politics, I don't have a horse in that race.  It sounds like Brown is a bit of a cad who likes to try to score with younger women in bars.

And if that were a crime, our jails would be full.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #417 on: February 26, 2018, 10:14:24 am »
I'm not interested in defending Brown's character.
...
And if that were a crime, our jails would be full.

I don't think anyone ever made the claim what he did was illegal, it is a matter of character that this is all about. Many men are fired from their jobs because they have made improper advances to women (especially junior women and/or subordinates) at work.

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8714
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #418 on: February 26, 2018, 01:14:19 pm »
I think these are just two young women who have told their stories. Their stories may be true or at least partly true.  But so what?

keep digging! You've chosen to pit your amateur-hour googly sleuthing prowess against the perspective and interpretation of the accusers and their sexual misconduct allegations - you completely discount it/them.

instead of offering your interpretive response to why the respective accusers, as individuals, came forward you deflected by applying that request collectively and dismissing it with a curt suggestion that simply asking for "the why" aligned with a conspiratorial plot.
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline Boges

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1310
Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #419 on: February 26, 2018, 01:37:00 pm »
Brown has served notice of Libel to CTV

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/geno-smith-i-may-be-with-kyrie-irving-on-this-whole-flat-earth-vs-globe-thing/

The most salacious part of the story turned out to be false.