Author Topic: Patrick Brown #MeToo  (Read 3941 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #225 on: February 09, 2018, 11:11:40 am »
So you're happy to dismiss the choices he made that night?

Why are you so intent on dismissing the choices she made that night? You sound incredibly paternalistic in how you're basically treating her like a little girl who had no control of herself and was simply this dainty delicate child-like creature at the mercy of a lascivious male.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #226 on: February 09, 2018, 11:15:14 am »
Call me old-fashioned but I don’t think getting a girl drunk and whipping down your pants can be considered flirting.

Again we see this paternalistic attitude that if a woman gets drunk it's the responsibility of the guy she was with.

This is at the heart of why I have such contempt for the progressive identity politics set. They all claim to believe in equality, but whenever anyone, usually a conservative, treats people equally they get outraged! Holding a woman to the same standard as a man! Why that's sexist!
She went to a bar on her own. She drank on her own. She went to his bedroom on her own.

As for the bullshit story about how he just whipped down his pants - and then she gave him a blowjob - seriously!? What kind of a **** was she anyway? I mean, a guy, she just met with no preliminaries, just whips it out, says "blow me" and she says "Okay!" and does it? Just like that? That's the story she's telling? And nobody even questions how logical that is?!
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #227 on: February 09, 2018, 11:16:13 am »
The whole scenario gives me the creeps. Even as a young guy hitting puberty back in the day it would have. Maybe it's partly to do with being raised by a single mom whom I respected so strongly.

Do you have to virtue signal every single day? We know how special you are. You probably even do girls hair for them.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #228 on: February 09, 2018, 11:17:42 am »
How about you read what she wrote. I 100% stand by everything she said on this thread. You clearly have not read what she wrote or understood it and this is precisely why I don't just challenge but now ridicule what you said. You did not read what she wrote and you come on this forum part of a group that have precisely done what you accuse others have, turned this issue into a partisan one.

Perhaps you are the one not understanding the inherent harm the attitude of male=uncontrolled/female=controlled actually is to both men and women. 

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I couldn't care less what his political affiliation is.
Given the way in which you hurl insults on Liberal politicians, I do not believe this for a second.

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The issue was and remains about consent. The young women who went back to his home have a responsibility to control their bodies and their safety over their bodies. It must begin and end with them on an individual level. Your patronizing attitude acts as if its up to a man to decide that. So of course you can't grasp her point or mine.
And it is also on you, and other men, to refute the notion put forth by SJ that men's sexual urges are so primal, natural, biologically driven, that they cannot control themselves and will push for sex in any way they can get it.  This is what MG, Omni, MH, BC Cheque and I are doing.   How about you take a moment and try to understand that instead of going on a rant.

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I spent 30 years dealing with sex crimes. I read now a bunch of pathetic boys jumping all over one another in the name of politically correct posturing presuming to reduce this issue to what a man does.
While completely missing SJ's attempt to reduce the actions of a grown man down to 'animal in lust' vs. 'woman as keeper of virtue'.

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Therefore it becomes a matter of choice, of individual choice, and women will decide when and where they will go and if they learn from certain mistakes they will but they don't and can't learn from mistakes if they put themselves in dangerous positions and then do not examine the choices they made to see if they could have done something safer.
And he had the "choice" to treat the woman he was with with respect; not to whip out his dick and expect a BJ or start raining kisses on a woman just because he was alone with her.  They were stupid to overdrink, I agree; but to act as if he's being unfairly accused and that his actions were in line with what a 'natural' man would do is why men keep doing those stupid things.

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That's the reality of the world we live in. You haven't had to sit in a room with a rapist and get in their head as I have. They are people who use power and access. Those are the two operative words, power and access.    They place themselves in positions where they have access to the vulnerable. Then they use their power, money, body size, job position perhaps to force themselves on their target. You and the rest of your moral saint pack have no proof, not an ounce of proof Brown used power, money or his body to force his way to have sex.
Was one of them not 19 at the time, and he 35?  Did she not work for him?  Was she not at a staff party, a party that moved to HIS home?  Was he not an MP at the time?  And did he not then make advances on her?  Just what is that but "power and access"?   That he stopped when she asked him to is good; that he tried at all "because men will do anything to get sex" is the problem.   A truly respectful, adult and controlled man would not have made any advances whatsoever.  Period.  And your support for his actions, and your support for SJ's 'natural man' argument is disgusting to me.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/patrick-brown-resigns-ontario-pc-1.4503040

The other one was in *HIGH SCHOOL* - that means underage drinking.  A stupid decision on her part, no question and yes, she's vulnerable - and Brown, who was NOT drinking, knew it.  Again - Power and Access.   He had it, and he used it.   
https://www.cp24.com/news/women-who-accused-brown-of-misconduct-were-reluctant-to-speak-out-ctv-reporter-1.3775056

Note what McGregor says in the article cited above:   
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McGregor said rumours have long been circulating about sexual harassment on Parliament Hill.

“Parliament Hill is a situation where you have, by definition, a lot of middle age men and a lot of young women staff,” he said.

“You have this basic built-in power imbalance and you have up here a lot of events. Pretty much any day of the week when the house is sitting, you can go somewhere and there (are) parties with MPs and free wine flowing all the time. So it’s a problematic situation.”

Power and access.  Brown had it, and he used it.  And you think we should heap blame on the women, that we're being unfair to Brown.  **** that.

http://None. Zero. Yet you take a second hand news story, which is called heresay evidence, which has never been corroborated, and you react like true SA Nazi Brown shirts. Your cause is righteous and you will persecute Brown.

Why are you assuming these women are lying?   Did they not 'gatekeep' well enough?

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How does that empower the woman who made a bad decision to go to his house? How does that help her?
In one case, the rest of the party also made a 'decision to go to his house'; are those decisions equally as bad, or is only her decision bad because she was the one he made moves on?   And, even if a woman does make a 'bad decision', does that mean the man gets a 'free pass' to make a pass?  Or assault her?  Or **** her?  Just where do you expect a man to behave well?
 
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All of you are so busy preaching morality you can't see the basic issue Kimmy is talking about or for that matter the basic facts. As Sir J has tried to say, men have a prime instinct a sexual drive. Its inherent. Its born within us. If we do not learn to repress it, chaos ensues and a stable society can not be built.

SJ, Kimmy and now you are so busy trying to blame the women and excuse the men in these scenarios that you are missing the point:  both men and women have a sexual drive; it is up to both men and women to ensure the other person is 'into it', and neither side has a higher responsibility to 'prevent sex' and neither side gets to say "oh, but my drive is so much stronger, I just have to do anything to get some". 

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That is the most basic and fundamental of psychological and religious concepts.
It certainly is a *religious* concept. 

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #229 on: February 09, 2018, 11:17:47 am »
Never in my life have I tried to kiss someone without it being pretty clear, via body language, touching/holding hands etc, that the other person wanted it too.

Because that would be unlikely to get a good reception. Nor would you just whip your pants down and ask some girl you just met for a blow job. I mean, how often is THAT likely to produce positive results!? Like never unless you're paying her.

And yet, that is allegedly what happened, which I call bullshit on.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #230 on: February 09, 2018, 11:21:30 am »
And must you bring your outrage about my not respecting your religion into every **** conversation?

Must you bring your contempt and disrespect for anyone who doesn't kowtow to your ignorant, racist, sexist and xenophobic attitudes into every **** conversation?

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #231 on: February 09, 2018, 11:28:18 am »
Because that would be unlikely to get a good reception. Nor would you just whip your pants down and ask some girl you just met for a blow job. I mean, how often is THAT likely to produce positive results!? Like never unless you're paying her.

And yet, that is allegedly what happened, which I call bullshit on.

Why would you doubt it?  You tell us that men are slaves to their sexual urges, that they'll do anything in their power to get women to have sex with them, and then you doubt some of the things they'll actually do.  Why would a man crawl on top  of a sleeping girl to have sex?  Are you going to call me a liar when I tell you that happened to me?  Or how about the guy who, just like Brown, did whip out his **** to 'show me how big it was' - no doubt he thought that would impress me enough to jump on it.   Or like the guy who picked me up from my parent's home to babysit his daughter for the evening, thought maybe if he just pulled over on the way to his house, he could cop a quick feel.  Do you know how it feels to be 16, shocked, scared and trying to act normal cause you don't know what else the **** to do? 

You are such an ignorant ass, you know nothing about what men will do; instead you validate their 'overwhelming' sexual urge and warn us 'they'll do whatever to get sex', and we're just a stupid bunch of twats if we get taken advantage of.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #232 on: February 09, 2018, 11:30:26 am »
Men trying to get laid is different then men will do anything to get laid, don't you think?  There should be mutual  interest, not one person seen as guarding the entry, whilst the other one seeks to overcome that guard by any means possible, whether it's begging, bribing, tricking or forcing.  Yes, I know Argus didn't say force, but it's part and parcel of the "do anything to breach the walls" attitude he claims as the natural state of affairs between men and women.

I will try this again. I never said men are slaves to their urges, nor that they would try anything to get laid. However, the urge is strong. A young man basically wants to have sex with every cute girl he meets, right then and there. If you're a cute girl and are in a college class, you can pretty much take it for granted every straight guy there wants to **** you. Do they? No. Do they all jump across the desks to have at you? No. Can you walk up and down the halls and interact with them, have lunch with them, chat with them, without a thing happening? Sure. Men mostly control themselves. Their desire for sex only leaks out around the edges in public, sometimes in the way they look at a woman, or in the way they compliment them, even politely.

And men are not a monolithic bloc, all highly intelligent and cultured, all with total self-control, all with excellent abilities to assess the reception or likely reception of various attempts at seduction or flirtation. Women are, unsurprisingly, unpredictable, and each is a product of their own life experience which has built an individual personality which means what works on one will annoy or irritate another. Expecting that every man will guess right all the time is ludicrous. So there are going to be all kinds of moves made which are not reciprocated with interest returned.

Add in that mos women don't want to hurt a guy's feelings, and try to dissuade unwanted approaches in an oblique manner rather than simply saying "I'm not interested in you.".  Now add in alcohol, on both sides.

And btw, add in that how physically attracted she is to the guy often governs how she responds more than what he says or does. A fat guy in a wheelchair telling a woman she looks yummy might provoke indignation but I wonder if a really hot looking guy said the same if she wouldn't smile receptively.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 11:37:58 am by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #233 on: February 09, 2018, 11:33:52 am »
Must you bring your contempt and disrespect for anyone who doesn't kowtow to your ignorant, racist, sexist and xenophobic attitudes into every **** conversation?

I get along fine with people who disagree with me. I have issues with sub-literate cretins without the intelligence to discuss issues and who insist on making every conversation about ME, because of how self-righteous they are that I dare to disagree with their emotionally overwrought, fact-free opinions.

If you want to talk about Islam yet again we can do that. But I thought this was about Patrick Brown. So put your burka away on this topic.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #234 on: February 09, 2018, 11:36:36 am »
Why would you doubt it?

Because it's stupid. If you understood the difference between stupid and smart you'd probably realize how stupid most of your views were.

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You tell us that men are slaves to their sexual urges,

No, you tell us that. You made it up because you're too **** dumb to refute what I actually say so insist on making **** up and pretending I said that instead.

"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #235 on: February 09, 2018, 11:39:51 am »
And it is also on you, and other men, to refute the notion put forth by SJ that men's sexual urges are so primal, natural, biologically driven, that they cannot control themselves and will push for sex in any way they can get it.

I never made any such claim, you sanctimonious moron.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 11:41:27 am by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #236 on: February 09, 2018, 11:46:50 am »
You made it up because you're too **** dumb to refute what I actually say so insist on making **** up and pretending I said that instead.

You wrote:
The problem women have is they are the gate-keepers for sex, and men want sex all the time. That means nothing will stop (heterosexual)men trying to persuade, seduce, influence, put pressure on, whine, beg, bribe, or otherwise seek to get women to let them in.

How is that not saying that men are slaves to their sexual desire and that nothing will stop them from trying to satisfy that desire?  I am damn certain that by 'otherwise' you didn't actually intend to include force, but it certainly is a wide open door for a lot of other men, isn't it?  Encouraging young girls to drink, whipping the dick out, manipulating young women, using threats of job loss, or violence, using drugs, simply raping by force - all of that falls under 'otherwise'. 

Following that statement up with statements designed to insult Omni as being a 'girly-man' because he advocated for a different approach than 'anything goes' when pursuing sex, and implying women wouldn't be safe if **** around a 'real man' - what message do you think you are sending?  That men should be responsible for their own behavior?  Not really; the whole message is that 'real men' crave sex, and women are not safe around them.


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Offline Omni

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #237 on: February 09, 2018, 12:15:42 pm »
You wrote:
The problem women have is they are the gate-keepers for sex, and men want sex all the time. That means nothing will stop (heterosexual)men trying to persuade, seduce, influence, put pressure on, whine, beg, bribe, or otherwise seek to get women to let them in.

How is that not saying that men are slaves to their sexual desire and that nothing will stop them from trying to satisfy that desire?  I am damn certain that by 'otherwise' you didn't actually intend to include force, but it certainly is a wide open door for a lot of other men, isn't it?  Encouraging young girls to drink, whipping the dick out, manipulating young women, using threats of job loss, or violence, using drugs, simply raping by force - all of that falls under 'otherwise'. 

Following that statement up with statements designed to insult Omni as being a 'girly-man' because he advocated for a different approach than 'anything goes' when pursuing sex, and implying women wouldn't be safe if **** around a 'real man' - what message do you think you are sending?  That men should be responsible for their own behavior?  Not really; the whole message is that 'real men' crave sex, and women are not safe around them.

Not only that but he tried to make me a lot older than I am. I am used to the endless insults when he gets refuted, but messing with my age, now that hurts, especially today. I have a date with some candles later on. But not THAT many candles. :D

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #238 on: February 09, 2018, 01:00:38 pm »
Perhaps you are the one not understanding the inherent harm the attitude of male=uncontrolled/female=controlled actually is to both men and women. . . .
You actually read what he wrote? His ideas aren't interesting enough to waste my time.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #239 on: February 09, 2018, 01:02:39 pm »
I get along fine with people who disagree with me.
The evidence on this forum and MLW show otherwise. You're quick to insult people who challenge you.
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