Author Topic: Patrick Brown #MeToo  (Read 2481 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2018, 12:23:47 pm »
I didn't say it was wrong, just weird.  I'm a tea-totaler that keeps booze around for tipsy women who come over and I'm a politician...

Most people who entertain - and a politician would be one - would keep alcohol around the house for guests.

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Boss showing employee **** ?

Well, sort of boss. He worked in Ottawa and she was a summer student working in his riding. He was not someone she had a lot of contact with. I note she stayed with him as a returning summer student for several years and rarely saw much of him afterward, according to her, so he didn't take any retalation for her turning him down.
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Offline MH

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2018, 12:27:31 pm »
Most people who entertain - and a politician would be one - would keep alcohol around the house for guests.

I never thought of that.

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Well, sort of boss. He worked in Ottawa and she was a summer student working in his riding. He was not someone she had a lot of contact with. I note she stayed with him as a returning summer student for several years and rarely saw much of him afterward, according to her, so he didn't take any retalation for her turning him down.

Yes, that's not alleged.  Did she work for his office, though ?  If so, he's "the" boss if not her immediate supervisor.

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2018, 12:39:57 pm »
They usually get the message when I walk away and refuse to engage.

Fair enough; that has been my reaction in the past too. But perhaps I'm a little less blase because on one occasion when something like that happened to me, the boss simply told the rest of the staff a different story, resulting in a workplace so uncomfortable for me that I left.  I'd said nothing about the incident, by the way.  This was before there was any recourse for harassment at work.

So why should women object to being called "yummy" in an elevator by her male colleague or boss, or even a stranger?   Because it's demeaning.  It implies that regardless of a woman's professional accomplishments, she essentially exists for the sexual gratification of men.  She is nothing more than a walking ****/breasts, and - at least in some people's minds- she should be grateful and feel complimented when a man comments on her sexual attributes.

I've said multiple times that I don't think a man should lose his job when he's behaved oafishly and I'm saying it again.  At the same time, I'm also critical of the attitude that a woman who does say something about these minor actions is over-reacting.   I think dismissing these women's complaints is tantamount to telling men that they don't have to do better, we understand and accept that they can't control themselves, that we are willing to be seen as sexual objects first and foremost, and colleagues secondly.

I'm not against complimenting, either.   If a man, whether boss/colleague/stranger, wants to compliment how I look, saying "You look nice today" should be acceptable (though I know there are those who would consider this over the line).  Even if he privately thinks I'm hot-as-hell and he'd like to do me all day long, controlling his outward expression of those thoughts is what should be the expectation.  After all, they can and do so with male colleagues:  no matter how much they may despise someone they are doing business with or working with, they are expected to keep those feelings and thoughts invisible.  As a woman, why should I expect or accept anything less?

So how about if we don't just walk away - why don't we use verbal communication instead of body language?  How about if we say "That was inappropriate and I want an apology" instead?   How about if we make men responsible for their behavior, immediately and directly?  Because silently walking away doesn't seem to be solving the problem, and going to the media with the result of destroying someone's career isn't a solution either.   

Offline the_squid

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #63 on: January 27, 2018, 01:48:37 pm »
A fellow Conservative MP knew there was something going on and brought it up with the party. 

So people in his own party knew he was a creep.   That doesnít mean he should go to jail...   but should a creepy guy who tries to get young women drunk and have his way with them be leader of a political party? 

http://torontosun.com/news/provincial/lisa-macleod-says-she-told-pcs-about-patrick-brown-rumours-weeks-ago


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PC MPP Lisa MacLeod warned the party apparatus that sheíd heard many rumours of former leader Patrick Brownís ďinappropriate touching or multiple girlfriends.Ē

MacLeod said she raised the issue a couple of times, including with a member of the campaign team who looked into the allegations but reported back that he hadnít heard anything.

The rumours were not detailed and had no names attached, but they were frequent enough to cause her concern, she said Friday.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2018, 02:38:33 pm »
A fellow Conservative MP knew there was something going on and brought it up with the party. 

So people in his own party knew he was a creep.   That doesnít mean he should go to jail...   but should a creepy guy who tries to get young women drunk and have his way with them be leader of a political party?

Rumors of multiple girlfriends or innapropriate touching(?). What does that even mean? if there was any evidence something would have been done. Another story said that one of his competitors in the leadership contest hired a private detective to look into such things but he found no evidence. Apparently Brown and a couple of other younger single male MPs were quite the players while in Ottawa.

Is that illegal? I believe Pierre Trudeau was known as something of a playboy too, in his time.

I would say, btw, that her bringing this up publicly now is not likely to endear her to the party.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 02:41:26 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2018, 03:00:54 pm »
You keep bring up PET like anyone excuses him. Itís blind partisan rhetoric and a ridiculous straw man.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2018, 04:12:43 pm »
You keep bring up PET like anyone excuses him. Itís blind partisan rhetoric and a ridiculous straw man.

Uh... like anyone excuses him? He's worshipped by Liberals, and got elected multiple times. The mere fact Justin has "Trudeau" as a last name was enough to make him the great talisman for them and have him anointed as party leader. You think he'd be prime minister if his name wasn't Trudeau? You think the name Trudeau would be such an attractive one if Liberals or the public in general thought he was a disgusting pervert?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline the_squid

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #67 on: January 27, 2018, 04:29:23 pm »
Rumors of multiple girlfriends or innapropriate touching(?). What does that even mean? if there was any evidence something would have been done.

Also from the Sun article:   
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ďPeople knew about these stories, and it wasnít that they thought they were untrue, they just thought that they wouldnít come out.Ē

The source said this crisis is now an opportunity for the party to take a hard look at these types of issues and accept responsibility for having promoted and profiled this leader.

They knew he was a creep, but tried to keep it from getting out.   They knew heíd be toast. 


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Is that illegal?

I said in the post you quoted that no one thinks he should go to jail....   but having a creepy guy for a political leader isnít the best choice probably.


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I believe Pierre Trudeau was known as something of a playboy too, in his time.

Ummm....  ok.

The 70ís called....   they want their Pierre Trudeau criticisms back.   Heís dead and irrelevant to any topic about politics in 2018.

Uh... like anyone excuses him? He's worshipped by Liberals, and got elected multiple times. The mere fact Justin has "Trudeau" as a last name was enough to make him the great talisman for them and have him anointed as party leader. You think he'd be prime minister if his name wasn't Trudeau? You think the name Trudeau would be such an attractive one if Liberals or the public in general thought he was a disgusting pervert?

So Iím confused....   you thought what Trudeau did in 1978 was bad?  But itís OK for the potential PC leader to do the same things now?   Or it was OK then, but it was Trudeau, so you are going to set your hair on fire about it anyway? 

40 years ago....    and youíre bringing this up in relation to this topic because you think itís relevant somehow? 
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 04:31:40 pm by the_squid »

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #68 on: January 27, 2018, 06:03:32 pm »
So Iím confused....   you thought what Trudeau did in 1978 was bad?  But itís OK for the potential PC leader to do the same things now?   Or it was OK then, but it was Trudeau, so you are going to set your hair on fire about it anyway? 

40 years ago....    and youíre bringing this up in relation to this topic because you think itís relevant somehow?

Yeah, because most of the Left, including Cybercoma, still worship the ground he once walked on and don't give a rats ass that he was boffing a teenager when he was in his late forties. So much do they admire and revere him they put his airhead son into the same job just because he was named Trudeau.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2018, 09:08:11 pm »
Yeah, because most of the Left, including Cybercoma, still worship the ground he once walked on and don't give a rats ass that he was boffing a teenager when he was in his late forties. So much do they admire and revere him they put his airhead son into the same job just because he was named Trudeau.
You know Iím not a Liberal, right?

Worship the ground they walk on? Donít make me laugh.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #70 on: January 28, 2018, 11:02:08 am »
Well I'm still intrigued by this Margaret Trudeau thing.  So, if I have this right, people in the late 1960s thought it was okay that an 18 year old woman could have a relationship with a much older man, if that was what she wanted?  And now 50 years later an 18 year old woman is too vulnerable to make those decisions for herself?

What happened?  Did women get weaker and dumber in the past 50 years?

 -k
Masked for your safety.

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #71 on: January 28, 2018, 11:24:22 am »
Well I'm still intrigued by this Margaret Trudeau thing.  So, if I have this right, people in the late 1960s thought it was okay that an 18 year old woman could have a relationship with a much older man, if that was what she wanted?  And now 50 years later an 18 year old woman is too vulnerable to make those decisions for herself?

What happened?  Did women get weaker and dumber in the past 50 years?

 -k

Child marriages have fallen out of fashion, too.  It doesn't mean that 15-year-olds are dumber and weaker than they used to be.

At the time, as I recall, a lot of men were envious and a lot of women sighed and shook their heads.    And of course, the assumption by many was that, in the way of women everywhere and throughout history, Margaret had essentially prostituted herself in return for money and status.  It wasn't completely uncontroversial and Margaret did spend a bit of time defending her interest in an older man.   I think the lack of wholesale condemnation had more to do with women still being seen as needing a man to be complete and fullfilled, rather than a reflection of an 18 year old being fully mature and autonomous and able to make her own decisions.

How young are you, anyway?  :) 

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2018, 11:37:58 am »
You know Iím not a Liberal, right?

Worship the ground they walk on? Donít make me laugh.

You seemed to say a lot of good things about him back on that other site.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2018, 11:40:40 am »
At the time, as I recall, a lot of men were envious and a lot of women sighed and shook their heads.    And of course, the assumption by many was that, in the way of women everywhere and throughout history, Margaret had essentially prostituted herself in return for money and status. 

You can't ignore the fact Trudeau was hugely admired and for some reason I've never understood, thought of as extremely sexy and debonair by women of the time.

Brown... not so much.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

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Re: Patrick Brown #MeToo
« Reply #74 on: January 28, 2018, 11:58:03 am »
You can't ignore the fact Trudeau was hugely admired and for some reason I've never understood, thought of as extremely sexy and debonair by women of the time.

I wasn't one of those women, though my mother was.  Only in history does he seem to have been hugely admired; in my more redneck part of Canada, opinion was split, though its not like there were huge discussions about it.   Anyway, it didn't matter because it was Eastern Canada who decided our prime ministers.