Author Topic: Other Provinces  (Read 906 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2018, 09:14:26 pm »
I would get rid of the provinces altogether if it somehow meant things would get better for people.

I don't see that happening. In fact, rather than combining the Atlantic provinces I would cut Ontario into four separate provinces, and probably Quebec into three or four, as well. Certainly eastern and northern Ontario would be better off on their own rather than lumped in with southern Ontario, and largely ignored by the provincial government.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7828
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2018, 09:19:22 pm »
How about having zero provinces, and having one level of government that funds local service provides. 
Like Like x 1 Dislike Dislike x 3 View List

Offline Omni

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8093
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2018, 09:31:39 pm »
How about having zero provinces, and having one level of government that funds local service provides.

Well now, you're treadin' on tin ice dere my son, I'm a former Newfie and we all luvs Joey Smallwood and the cod fishery. Now if ya got some funding for fish boats we'll talk.

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7828
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2018, 09:36:06 pm »
Well now, you're treadin' on tin ice dere my son, I'm a former Newfie and we all luvs Joey Smallwood and the cod fishery. Now if ya got some funding for fish boats we'll talk.

There's no reason to not have 'fun borders'... Lanark county is different from ... oh ... Frontenac ... but there's not much reason to have giant administration organizations tied to geography.  It's dumb.   

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4922
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2018, 09:37:11 pm »
I would get rid of the provinces altogether if it somehow meant things would get better for people.

If anything I would leave the provinces as they are, but transfer more power and control to them, constitutionally, from the federal gov.  People need more representation and sovereignty, not less.  And more local representation to respond to their own unique needs and desires.  The more power your vote has, the better.  1 vote among 5 million is a lot better than 1 vote among 36 million.  People crave self-determination, it's what gives politics its legitimacy, and is the basis for democracy.  It makes people less frustrated, it's worked in Quebec.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7828
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2018, 09:38:32 pm »
If anything I would leave the provinces as they are, but transfer more power and control to them, constitutionally, from the federal gov.  People need more representation and sovereignty, not less.

How about services ?

Quote
And more local representation to respond to their own unique needs and desires.

Those should be tailored to the individual.
 

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4922
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2018, 09:39:35 pm »
There's no reason to not have 'fun borders'... Lanark county is different from ... oh ... Frontenac ... but there's not much reason to have giant administration organizations tied to geography.  It's dumb.

But you want an even more giant federal central government to dole out funding to local orgs?  Huh?  Why not smaller central governments doling out money to local orgs?
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4922
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2018, 09:41:24 pm »
How about services ?

What about services?

Quote
Those should be tailored to the individual.

That's vague, I don't understand.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline Omni

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8093
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2018, 09:41:56 pm »
There's no reason to not have 'fun borders'... Lanark county is different from ... oh ... Frontenac ... but there's not much reason to have giant administration organizations tied to geography.  It's dumb.

All kidding aside I tend to agree. We could benefit from downsizing and better integrating government across this vast land.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4922
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2018, 09:45:21 pm »
All kidding aside I tend to agree. We could benefit from downsizing and better integrating government across this vast land.

But what if Quebecers want universal healthcare, dental, pharma, and childcare, but Alberta wants fully privately insured health and dental and daycare on their own dime?  Who is Ottawa, or people in Ontario or BC, to say what people in Quebec and Alberta should have?
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2018, 09:48:11 pm »
And more local representation to respond to their own unique needs and desires.  The more power your vote has, the better.

It seems that Doug Ford disagrees with you, he is taking away local representation.

Offline Omni

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8093
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2018, 09:51:16 pm »
But what if Quebecers want universal healthcare, dental, pharma, and childcare, but Alberta wants fully privately insured health and dental and daycare on their own dime?  Who is Ottawa, or people in Ontario or BC, to say what people in Quebec and Alberta should have?

Well, we sit down and decide what we all will have and how to fund it across the country instead of hiding in our own little niches. And we'd probably all benefit from the uniformity.
And if you want privately funded healthcare so you can go broke when you get sick, then fuck off to the US and kiss Trump's arse.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 09:53:43 pm by Omni »

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7828
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2018, 09:56:18 pm »
But you want an even more giant federal central government to dole out funding to local orgs?  Huh?  Why not smaller central governments doling out money to local orgs?

The federal government could basically be an AI program, or a Go Fund Me page. 

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7828
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2018, 09:58:29 pm »
What about services? That's vague, I don't understand.

People think of government as a building, with some person in it, sitting at a desk or at a wicket.  All it needs to be is a way of making sure the right organizations get funded to provide better services.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2018, 11:00:48 am »
Speaking about provinces, according to a report from the PBO, the economic situation of some of the provinces and their growing debt loads is unsustainable.

As of 2017, the provinces’ net debts average about 26 per cent of GDP — five points better than the federal government, at 31 per cent — ranging from a high of 43 per cent in Quebec to a low of 1.6 per cent in Alberta.

Now flash forward 25 years. While average provincial debt, the PBO projects, will increase modestly, to 36 per cent of GDP, the deterioration in the position of some provinces is quite startling: New Brunswick’s debt, now at 34 per cent of GDP, leaps to 115 per cent; Manitoba’s, from 37 per cent to 105 per cent; Newfoundland’s, from 32 per cent to 76 per cent.

 For comparison, when Saskatchewan famously “hit the wall” in the early 1990s, its debt-to-GDP ratio was less than 60 per cent.


https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/andrew-coyne-the-wolf-is-really-at-provinces-door-pbo-fiscal-report-warns#comments-area
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 11:03:25 am by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum