Author Topic: Other Provinces  (Read 865 times)

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Offline MH

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Other Provinces
« on: September 25, 2018, 06:50:50 am »
Let's face it... some provinces are just... "other"...

New Brunswick, I have seen it written as the province everyone forgets when naming them.  Still, they had an election:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Brunswick_general_election,_2018

3 Greens elected 3 populist redneck whatsit party elected ... basically a dead heat election in NB

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Brunswick_general_election,_2018

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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2018, 08:27:50 am »
A lot of people don't realize that PANB is a populist right-wing party. They just think they're some grass-roots third alternative. They're going to find out quickly what the party actually stands for. This election is yet another example of why FPTP is broken.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2018, 08:32:32 am »
If you look at the riding-by-riding results, you'll notice that a lot of them were battles between PCs and PANBs which demonstrates that people in this province really had no clue what PANB is.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4470266/new-brunswick-election-day-results/

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2018, 12:06:04 pm »
A lot of people don't realize that PANB is a populist right-wing party. They just think they're some grass-roots third alternative. They're going to find out quickly what the party actually stands for. This election is yet another example of why FPTP is broken.

I don't understand your point. They had 12.5% of the vote and got 3/49 seats. If we had proportional rep they'd still have gotten 12.5% of the vote but a lot more seats. Is that your preference? Anyway, it sounds like you don't like them. Why?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Alliance_of_New_Brunswick
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 12:07:58 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline the_squid

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2018, 01:28:30 pm »
It was a mistake not to amalgamate the Atlantic provinces...   so much duplication of government and services for four provinces with the population of 2.3 million people...   less than the population of greater Vancouver.

It would be unpalatable to do now, of course...   the Consitution would need changing, for one.  Also, people get emotionally invested in “their” homeland.  Try telling someone from PEI that they’re the same as a Newfoundlander or Nova Scotian.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 01:30:08 pm by the_squid »

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2018, 01:32:38 pm »
It was a mistake not to amalgamate the Atlantic provinces...   so much duplication of government and services for four provinces with the population of 2.3 million people...   less than the population of greater Vancouver.

It would be unpalatable to do now, of course...   the Consitution would need changing, for one.  Also, people get emotionally invested in “their” homeland.  Try telling someone from PEI that they’re the same as a Newfoundlander or Nova Scotian.

Amalgamation went so well for Toronto... and Montreal, etc .

Offline the_squid

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2018, 01:57:18 pm »
Amalgamation went so well for Toronto... and Montreal, etc .


So you think BC would be better if it was split up into 5 provinces?   Dumb idea.  It’s inefficient and wasteful. 

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2018, 02:01:09 pm »
So you think BC would be better if it was split up into 5 provinces?   Dumb idea.  It’s inefficient and wasteful.

That is quite a leap from what I said to what you implied I said. Here is one for you: The sky is blue. Let's see what you can twist that into.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2018, 02:20:18 pm »
That is quite a leap from what I said to what you implied I said. Here is one for you: The sky is blue. Let's see what you can twist that into.

Apparently, amalgamation is bad cuz it didn’t go well in Toronto....   ::)

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2018, 08:36:35 am »
I don't understand your point. They had 12.5% of the vote and got 3/49 seats. If we had proportional rep they'd still have gotten 12.5% of the vote but a lot more seats. Is that your preference? Anyway, it sounds like you don't like them. Why?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Alliance_of_New_Brunswick
I don't like them because they are populist garbage.

Just because I don't like them, doesn't mean that I support an electoral system that is unrepresentative. If they had 6 seats in a proportional system, that's what they deserve based on the number of people who voted for their mouth-breathing idiocy.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2018, 08:38:31 am »
It was a mistake not to amalgamate the Atlantic provinces... 
Provinces have sovereignty. This is like saying the United States should amalgamate Germany. We are a confederation, each piece with its own Crown. Amalgamation would be annexation and which province would want to annex the others?
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2018, 10:08:54 am »
For legacy reasons, the miniature provinces of the east coast have disproportionately large representation in parliament and especially the senate.  The historical factors that made it this way are no longer relevant, but we can't just wave a wand and change it.

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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2018, 10:26:28 am »
we can't just wave a wand and change it.

Agreed, but that does not mean we should not strive to continually improve our Confederation to ensure a democracy that gives equal say in our nations affairs to all citizens.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2018, 12:20:12 pm »
For legacy reasons, the miniature provinces of the east coast have disproportionately large representation in parliament and especially the senate.  The historical factors that made it this way are no longer relevant, but we can't just wave a wand and change it.

 -k
I disagree. The Atlantic provnces, particularly the Maritimes as a region have distinct interests that do overlap, but are very different from Quebec (the next closest province). The Maritimes are also culturally distinct from the other regions. Suffice it to say, they should precisely enough of a voice in the legislature that neither Ontario nor Quebec gets to decide for the Maritimes their destiny.

You guys seem to have a really big issue with sovereignty and what that means in this context.
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Offline MH

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Re: Other Provinces
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2018, 09:09:36 pm »
You guys seem to have a really big issue with sovereignty and what that means in this context.

I would get rid of the provinces altogether if it somehow meant things would get better for people.