Author Topic: Ontario Provincial Election 2018  (Read 6562 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #225 on: May 23, 2018, 11:22:19 am »
Instead, they picked the only guy who could turn this into a nailbiter. 

 -k

I wonder how many of the actual members voted for Ford, as opposed to the rush of people such candidates sign up when they run.
I've often complained about how people suddenly parachute into a riding or a party and bring in a flock of new 'members', who have never been involved with the party before, know or care little about it,  and whose sole interest is to plunk down $5 or $10 and then vote for their candidate. How much do they really reflect the party at all? Would Jagmeet Singh have won the NDP leadership contest without all those new Sikh members joining to vote for him? Would Ford have won the Ontario PC leadership if you couldn't join up and then immediately vote?

I've said before that people should not be allowed to vote for candidates until they've been members for at least a year or two. Failing that they should drastically raise the membership cost.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #226 on: May 23, 2018, 11:49:52 am »


I've said before that people should not be allowed to vote for candidates until they've been members for at least a year or two. Failing that they should drastically raise the membership cost.

They should do that.  The PC supporters I know personally were convinced Elliot had it hands down, which actually should have been the case if political intelligence were used.  She would be coasting to a super majority if she were the candidate.

Offline Omni

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #227 on: May 23, 2018, 11:51:35 am »
I wonder how many of the actual members voted for Ford, as opposed to the rush of people such candidates sign up when they run.
I've often complained about how people suddenly parachute into a riding or a party and bring in a flock of new 'members', who have never been involved with the party before, know or care little about it,  and whose sole interest is to plunk down $5 or $10 and then vote for their candidate. How much do they really reflect the party at all? Would Jagmeet Singh have won the NDP leadership contest without all those new Sikh members joining to vote for him? Would Ford have won the Ontario PC leadership if you couldn't join up and then immediately vote?

I've said before that people should not be allowed to vote for candidates until they've been members for at least a year or two. Failing that they should drastically raise the membership cost.

I'd be interested to hear the evidence that causes you to presume that people who have recently joined a party mustn't know anything about it's platform. Why could it not also be that they join because they like the platform and now have faith in a leadership candidate? I realize that  is a bit hard to fathom in the DoFo example but to each their own as they say.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #228 on: May 23, 2018, 11:58:22 am »
I'd be interested to hear the evidence that causes you to presume that people who have recently joined a party mustn't know anything about it's platform. Why could it not also be that they join because they like the platform and now have faith in a leadership candidate? I realize that  is a bit hard to fathom in the DoFo example but to each their own as they say.

Why join the party RIGHT NOW if it's for any other reason than to vote for this particular candidate? Whether it be in a local riding association or for national/provincial leader? Why do these candidates boast about how many 'new members' they've signed up for any reason but a certainty they're coming in to vote for THEM? Why would candidates even try to sign up new members - people who have up until then never been a member of the party?

I think you should be allowed to join at any time, but not be allowed to vote for your riding candidate or party leadership candidate for a year or two.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #229 on: May 24, 2018, 12:01:09 am »
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #230 on: May 24, 2018, 06:28:49 am »
I would have been elated with an NDP government election when I was in my 20s.  Now I'm more pragmatic.  HOWEVER, a minority government of any flavour would be a good thing at this time IMO.

Any minority government paves the way for the Liberals to put a strong candidate in place to sweep the next election.  The PCs would be crazy to keep Ford given the graph above but he won't let go of the leadership.

I read somewhere that he's trailing in his riding.

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #231 on: May 24, 2018, 08:09:44 am »
NDP governments tend to be pragmatic though too. Other than that one Ontario one, they've been quite fiscally responsible. And as Mulcair said, that guy turned out to be a Liberal.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #232 on: May 24, 2018, 08:16:35 am »
The NDP are bourgeois liberal scum these days. There's not a single party that doesn't operate under a neo-liberal mentality of running government with an economic rationality that strips it of its humanitarian purposes. Thomas Mulcair was the expression of the death of any socialist grounding that the NDP once had.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #233 on: May 24, 2018, 08:46:09 am »
Any minority government paves the way for the Liberals to put a strong candidate in place to sweep the next election.  The PCs would be crazy to keep Ford given the graph above but he won't let go of the leadership.

I read somewhere that he's trailing in his riding.

The election is in 2 weeks, it's a little late to change.  If he isn't Premier after June 7, you'd have to think he's done as party leader.

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #234 on: May 24, 2018, 09:21:37 am »
The election is in 2 weeks, it's a little late to change.  If he isn't Premier after June 7, you'd have to think he's done as party leader.

 -k

I mean - to keep Ford after the election.

More Douggie scandals today: the Liberals have a tape of him seeming to buy memberships, and an accusation that he intimidated and followed someone in his car.

To this I say: he comes from a family of crooks so I wouldn't be surprised, however the only thing I believe is the 2nd assertion as he did this to a friend of mine !

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #235 on: May 24, 2018, 11:29:25 am »
I would have been elated with an NDP government election when I was in my 20s.  Now I'm more pragmatic.  HOWEVER, a minority government of any flavour would be a good thing at this time IMO.

Any minority government paves the way for the Liberals to put a strong candidate in place to sweep the next election.  The PCs would be crazy to keep Ford given the graph above but he won't let go of the leadership.

I read somewhere that he's trailing in his riding.

I can't speak about Ford, although I remain bemused about the bug-eyed hatred for him from much of the Left given his lack of statements or history which would seem to justify it. But I don't see how a minority government could work in Ontario unless it was an NDP/Liberal one, and that one would be filled with vicious elbowing and rivalry about who was willing to spend MORE money. It would most likely pave the way for a massive PC win in the following election.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #236 on: May 24, 2018, 11:31:37 am »
NDP governments tend to be pragmatic though too. Other than that one Ontario one, they've been quite fiscally responsible. And as Mulcair said, that guy turned out to be a Liberal.

There doesn't seem to be anything pragmatic about the Ontario NDP's offer to pay for everything anyone could ever want, and somehow balance the budget as well. Declaring Ontario a sanctuary province is not pragmatic either, nor is allowing illegal aliens to vote. Nor is raising corporate taxes after the US just drastically lowered their corporate taxes. Nor is a promise to close nuclear power plants, which is just more of the green energy fiasco the Liberals have implemented over the past 15 years.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #237 on: May 24, 2018, 11:36:30 am »
There doesn't seem to be anything pragmatic about the Ontario NDP's offer to pay for everything anyone could ever want, and somehow balance the budget as well. 

We already talked about how Ford is doing the same thing.  If words don't matter, then why bring it up only when the NDP lies ?

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #238 on: May 24, 2018, 02:42:06 pm »
We already talked about how Ford is doing the same thing.  If words don't matter, then why bring it up only when the NDP lies ?

Because the NDP isn't pragmatic, and the part of their promises I believe they will put little effort into fulfilling is the part where they get back to a balanced budget in a few years. I think they'll place even less importance on that than Trudeau does.

The party history is of a group of do-gooders who see the government purse as a bottomless pit in which to 'improve society' and 'make things fairer'.
The PC party history is of a party which tries to be reasonably fiscally prudent. How they will reconcile that with cutting taxes and giving a big child care credit I don't know, but I suspect the reason they aren't saying is it involves job cuts and salary freezes. Which I approve of.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #239 on: May 25, 2018, 05:21:09 am »
Because the NDP isn't pragmatic, and the part of their promises I believe they will put little effort into fulfilling is the part where they get back to a balanced budget in a few years. I think they'll place even less importance on that than Trudeau does.

Right.  Then say that, instead of calling out one group as lying when the other clearly is.