Author Topic: Ontario Provincial Election 2018  (Read 4733 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2018, 09:36:34 pm »
Oh bite me. The Liberals have NEVER balanced a budget...

Yawn, afraid of facts are we? The fact is the liberals were handed a large deficit from Eves, and turned it around into several years of surplus before the recession and the downward spiral.

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10985
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2018, 06:03:48 am »
Shitposting about numbers without cites should be illegal






Like Like x 1 View List

Offline cybercoma

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2955
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2018, 08:05:18 am »
Shitposting graphs and numbers that don't contextualize the structural changes that affected the revenue stream of the government should also be illegal.

Offline Boges

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1285
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2018, 09:55:42 am »
Yawn, afraid of facts are we? The fact is the liberals were handed a large deficit from Eves, and turned it around into several years of surplus before the recession and the downward spiral.

The Eves deficit was temporary based on a particularly bad year for Ontario. The Economy was still in good shape to return back to surplus.

But regardless this government lies about balancing the budget in 2017 and now is facing a credit rating downgrade inorder to buy votes and continue deficits for the entire length of the mandate they're looking for.

It's a shame DoFo is ignoring Patrick Brown's platform because it's assumes the Liberals were lying about the balanced budget and pledges a modest deficit to figure things out.

This is something every government does BTW. I'm sure, should DoFo win, that he'll run a deficit claiming he wasn't aware how horrible a situation the Liberals left them in. What's good for the goose.

Offline Boges

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1285
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2018, 10:08:38 am »
Calling DoFo dumb and saying he's GTA Trump isn't working.

https://www.cp24.com/news/new-poll-puts-ontario-pcs-in-super-majority-territory-ndp-as-opposition-1.3894472

Quote
Chris Herhalt, CP24.com
Published Friday, April 20, 2018 9:54AM EDT
The Ontario PCs would win a strong majority if a provincial election was held today, and the NDP would form the Official Opposition, a new poll suggests.

Forum Research found that 46 per cent of decided or leaning voters said on April 18 that they would support the Ontario PCs if a vote were held today, compared to 27 per cent for the NDP and 21 per cent for the Liberals.

The PCs strength has been trending in their polls for several years. But the NDP have now come second in six of the firm’s last 11 polls, dating back to June 12-14, 2017.

“The bump in support following the Liberal budget is gone,” Forum Research President Lorne Bozinoff said in a news release. “The (PCs) are back where we’ve seen them for the past year, and Doug Ford looks on track to be Premier in a few months.”

Two days before the poll was conducted, the Ontario NDP released its party platform, calling for universal pharmacare and dental care, higher corporate taxes and the re-purchase of Hydro One to make it public.

Four per cent of respondents said they would vote Green while two per cent expressed support for another party.

Translated into seats, Forum said the PCs would win 94 of 122 available seats, putting them into what Bozinoff calls “super-majority” territory.

Their support is strongest in southwestern Ontario, eastern Ontario and the 905 area.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2018, 11:50:30 am »
Shitposting graphs and numbers that don't contextualize the structural changes that affected the revenue stream of the government should also be illegal.

The government's revenue stream grew significantly, easily outpacing the combination of population growth and inflation.

And over the whole 2003/04 to 2015/16 period, the pace of provincial government revenue growth has exceeded the rate necessary to keep pace with increasing overall prices (inflation) and a growing population. In fact, between 2003/04 and 2015/16, total provincial government revenues in Ontario increased by an average of 4.6% per year. By comparison, the average combined rate of inflation and population growth during this same period was only 2.8%. Revenues also grew faster than the economy as nominal GDP increased at about 3.2% annually between 2003 and 2015.

In other words, government revenues grew at a rate approximately 62% faster than would have been necessary to offset the pressures placed on government finances by inflation and population growth. It also grew at an annual average rate that was 42% greater than GDP.


On the other hand.

The period between 2003/04 and 2015/16 has seen rapid spending growth—indeed unsustainable growth, given that it has outstripped both revenue and GDP growth. Consider provincial program spending alone, which excludes payments made to service existing debt. During this period, provincial program spending increased
overall by 71.6% from $70.4 billion in 2003/04 to $120.9 billion in 2015/16.


https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/spending-is-the-source-of-ontarios-deficit-and-debt-problem.pdf
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline cybercoma

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2955
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2018, 12:02:36 pm »
The Fraser Institute. Seriously?

I don't have the time this afternoon to rip apart their methodologies, yet again. Not to mention, I have barely a passing interest in Ontario's politics.

Why don't you dig up some credible sources instead and we can discuss it?

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2018, 12:11:43 pm »
The Fraser Institute. Seriously?

I don't have the time this afternoon to rip apart their methodologies, yet again. Not to mention, I have barely a passing interest in Ontario's politics.

Why don't you dig up some credible sources instead and we can discuss it?

When the Marxst Leninist party issues an economic analyses I'll get back to you. I don't think you'd accept anything else.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8563
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2018, 12:24:44 pm »
The Fraser Institute. Seriously?

I don't have the time this afternoon to rip apart their methodologies, yet again. Not to mention, I have barely a passing interest in Ontario's politics.

Why don't you dig up some credible sources instead and we can discuss it?

His favorite go to it seems. Their bias suits him best.

No Free Lunch
Confessions of a Fraser Institute propagandee

https://albertaviews.ca/no-free-lunch/
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 12:45:28 pm by Omni »

Offline Boges

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1285
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2018, 12:27:24 pm »
So we're also allowed to completely disregard any study from the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives then too right?

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2018, 01:20:18 pm »
I wonder why the extremely biased Fraser Institute doesn't look at the period starting in 2007-8 (the last year of fiscal surplus) to today? Oh yeah, that "extremely biased" part. It took a couple of years to clean up the mess left by the Harris/Eves PC party you know.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2018, 01:34:35 pm »
I wonder why the extremely biased Fraser Institute doesn't look at the period starting in 2007-8 (the last year of fiscal surplus) to today? Oh yeah, that "extremely biased" part. It took a couple of years to clean up the mess left by the Harris/Eves PC party you know.

Why is the Fraser Institute 'extremely biased"? As far as I'm aware their only policy issue is taxes, spending and government efficiency. And they criticized the Harper government at times, too. The far left's disdain for the FI seems to arise out of their sense of indignation that FI cares about money and not 'human beings' like you do. But that's simply because you presume a sense of moral superiority to all your political positions.

As for the time it took to 'clean up the mess' I have some vague recollection of the Liberals taking over and then over-inflating the size of the deficit by playing dishonest accounting games and throwing in every possible debt obligation they could, even from future years. But that's not really relevant. What they looked at was the growth of program spending, the growth of revenue, population growth and inflation since the Liberals took power.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2018, 01:38:31 pm »
What they looked at was the growth of program spending, the growth of revenue, population growth and inflation since the Liberals took power.

Again, ignoring the deficit they were handed. A valid look is from a sound financial standing - period. Pretending that deficit was fake is just as foolish as you pretending the surplus the Liberals had this year is fake - it exposes your extreme partisan bias.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2018, 01:52:02 pm »
So we're also allowed to completely disregard any study from the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives then too right?

That depends on what they're saying. If they're simply stating what the deficit was from year to year, or how much spending has grown then I don't really see how they could be wrong aside from outright lying. But their bias in all things is fairly clear. They were founded by social workers, after all, and are ever eager for more government spending and more taxes. At least the Fraser Institute was founded by an economist.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2018, 01:55:42 pm »
Again, ignoring the deficit they were handed. A valid look is from a sound financial standing - period. Pretending that deficit was fake is just as foolish as you pretending the surplus the Liberals had this year is fake - it exposes your extreme partisan bias.

The Liberals own budget analyst say it's fake. Their own AG is threatening to declare their books fake. It's not like I'm making this up. And again, the analyses was only on PROGRAM SPENDING increases, which are irrelevant to what deficit they were or were not handed. Mulroney was handed a huge budget deficit but he decreased program spending.

I doubt there is not one thing the Liberals could do, even if their entire cabinet was convicted and thrown into prison, which would cause you to say one thing against them. You call others biased but I've criticized the Conservatives many times. You're the biggest partisan hack on this place.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum