Author Topic: Ontario Provincial Election 2018  (Read 3778 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2018, 12:17:16 pm »
The "tax breaks!" people are no better than the "free stuff!" people in this regard.    Look at our Republican friends south of the border. For 8 years they were bitching about the national debt, but now that their guy is in the White House, they've implemented a massive unfunded tax cut for the corporations and the very wealthy that results in a $1.3 trillion dollar deficit... but they're no longer concerned about the size of the deficit.

 -k

Have you ever heard me say one good thing about those people? Still, a tax cut isn't as bad as increased spending. At least the money goes back to its owners. And it's a lot easier to reverse that than it is to fire people and slash programs.

It does indicate the problem with democracy in a low knowledge environment where idiots who pay little attention to what's going on and give little thought to the future rush out to vote for whoever offers them the most goodies. How many of those people who now think Trump is doing a good job understand the tax cuts will disappear after a few years? How many new Wynne supporters understand most of these promises won't take place until around the time of the next election - if at all, and won't even be fully implemented until AFTER the next election (if at all)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 12:20:00 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2018, 01:14:34 pm »
Still, a tax cut isn't as bad as increased spending. At least the money goes back to its owners. And it's a lot easier to reverse that than it is to fire people and slash programs.

No, it is far, far, far, far worse. The money goes to the banks, and it is far, far, far, far harder to reverse. The brain dead Flaherty/Harper GST cut and corporate gifting is how they racked up the second largest debt of any Canadian government (behind Mulroney). A tax cut is only good to elect incompetents by morons.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2018, 03:25:02 pm »
No, it is far, far, far, far worse. The money goes to the banks, and it is far, far, far, far harder to reverse. The brain dead Flaherty/Harper GST cut and corporate gifting is how they racked up the second largest debt of any Canadian government (behind Mulroney). A tax cut is only good to elect incompetents by morons.

What paranoid nonsense is this? Cutting the GST benefited no one but the consumers who didn't have to fork over the other 2%, and the retailers who probably saw increased sales. I wasn't in favor of the GST cuts but it's hard to imagine a better tax cut for getting into the pockets of ordinary people - as opposed to the US tax cut which primarily helped the wealthy. As for tax cuts benefiting the 'corporations' the Liberals have done that in reducing corporate taxes.

Whining about Harper's deficits without acknowedgling the terrible recession, and that all three opposition parties were EXTREMELY supportive of them - demanding them, in fact, is sheer dishonesty.

As for Mulroney, well, if he had started out with very low debt and virtually no deficit, like Trudeau did, then the double digit inflation rate wouldn't have hurt nearly as much as it did starting out with Trudeau's $70billion deficit and the accumulated debt from his dozen years in office.


"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2018, 03:29:22 pm »
Cutting the GST benefited...

Quite convenient you ignored the corporate tax gifts I also mentioned that benefited foreign owners.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2018, 03:33:12 pm »
Quite convenient you ignored the corporate tax gifts I also mentioned that benefited foreign owners.

Be specific.

Generally I don't approve of cuts to corporate taxes except (reluctantly) insofar as it's necessary to keep business from relocating to other low-tax areas.
Of course, if we did taxes right, we could lower corporate taxes as much as we wanted as long we then collected the profits from their owners. Unfortunately, I can pretty much guarantee you that every multi-millionaire and billionaire in North America pays a much lower percentage of their earnings in taxes than I do, probably a third what I do.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2018, 05:29:21 pm »
No, it is far, far, far, far worse. The money goes to the banks, and it is far, far, far, far harder to reverse.

How does it "go to the banks"?  Extra money in people's pockets is usually spent and goes into the economy.  Even if they put it in the bank for savings or investment, good on them, it's still theirs.

Quote
The brain dead Flaherty/Harper GST cut and corporate gifting is how they racked up the second largest debt of any Canadian government (behind Mulroney). A tax cut is only good to elect incompetents by morons.

They racked up the high debt because they spent money into deficit in order to stimulate the economy in reaction to the roughest economic recession since the Great Depression.  This is Keynesian economic policy 101 that just about every other western government did as well.  The problem is that Keynesian economics says that in the good economic times you're supposed to raise interest rates and pay back the debt you incurred during the rough times, which governments are usually reluctant to do because voters like their handouts & borrowing cheaply.

Now, if I were the Ontario Premier, I wouldn't be worried about a tax cut at the moment since the prov is heavily indebted and has quite a few problems to fix, it would be better to pay down the debt a bit and fix up some things like healthcare before tax cuts me thinks.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2018, 03:25:07 pm »
Now Doug Ford is going to fire the CEO of Hydro One? Can someone with a brain explain to him that the government only holds a minority interest in Hydro One so he can't do that any more than he can get rid of the CBC.

Offline MH

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2018, 03:33:00 pm »
...so he can't do that any more than he can get rid of the CBC.

Fake news.  That one hurt.

Offline Boges

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2018, 02:33:33 pm »
Wynne played the Trump card.

It's the height of irony when you accuse your opponent of vicious politics and you drop this before the writ is even dropped.

DoFo is not Donald Trump and trying to compare the two is the height of desperation.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2018, 02:44:42 pm »
He's certainly coming off as incompetent and uninformed as Trump. That's got to make conservatives feel good--to know there's a candidate as thick as they are. Wynne's going to lose.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2018, 02:45:42 pm »
Wynne played the Trump card.

It's the height of irony when you accuse your opponent of vicious politics and you drop this before the writ is even dropped.

DoFo is not Donald Trump and trying to compare the two is the height of desperation.

Yes, she accused him of smearing her, and in doing so smeared him. And bullying? Seriously? A politician saying unkind things about another politician is bullying now? Is she playing the poor little girl card too?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2018, 02:49:46 pm »
He's certainly coming off as incompetent and uninformed as Trump. That's got to make conservatives feel good--to know there's a candidate as thick as they are. Wynne's going to lose.

She deserves to lose. I doubt there's been a government in Canadian history as incompetent and utterly cynical about the use of taxpayers dollars for their own political benefit. Renegotiating the hydro loans so as to lower hydro rates was a breathtaking misuse of public funds which,  according to her own budget watchdog will cost the people of Ontario an extra $21 BILLION dollars. Think about that for a moment. TWENTY ONE BILLION DOLLARS! All done in hope of making herself look more popular in the runup to an election! Can anyone think of a few better things we could have done with that money? I know I can!

http://www.macleans.ca/news/hydro-plan-will-cost-ontario-45-billion-says-budget-watchdog/
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Boges

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2018, 03:00:11 pm »
You would hope this seals the Liberals fate.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/04/18/moodys-sounds-ratings-warning-shot-over-ontario-budget.html

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A major debt-rating agency is sounding the alarm on the Liberals’ big-spending pre-election budget.

Moody’s Investors Service has changed the outlook on the province of Ontario’s ratings from “stable” to “negative” in the wake of Finance Minister Charles Sousa’s March 28 spending plan, which featured a $6.7-billion deficit.

While not a credit downgrade to Ontario’s “Aa2” rating, it is a warning shot.

The Liberals can't just spend their way out of this hole. The idea that deficits don't matter and we can just give everyone free stuff to get elected will have serious repercussions.

This media report is a campaign ad that writes itself.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2018, 03:03:52 pm »
We want alternatives, and dufus Ford is not one.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Provincial Election 2018
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2018, 03:08:45 pm »
We want alternatives, and dufus Ford is not one.

He's the only one available. Maybe he is a doofus and maybe he'll screw up. But it's hard to imagine he could do worse than the Liberals unless it was deliberate.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum