Author Topic: Ontario Government of Doug Ford  (Read 9254 times)

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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #120 on: September 17, 2018, 10:05:28 am »
He's a populist demagogue whose life has been largely an open book for seventy years. Never in that life has he ever espoused conservative views. Quite the contrary for the most part. He's been a lifelong hedonist and adulterer who reveled in broadcasting his sexual deeds/misdeeds and openly supported all the usual liberal social policies. His government's only accomplishment has been a big tax cut which will hugely increase the deficit. Mitch McConnell once said Trump would sign anything congress puts in front of him, and there's no evidence Trump has even contributed to anything his government has done so far other than his ranting about the need for trade tariffs - which conservatives have always opposed.

I don't think Trump even knows a thing about any political ideology. He just likes people cheering him, and that's all he's in this for. Well, along with the feeling of being a big man who can bully people.
He was elected in the primaries by conservatives as their choice for presidential candidate. If he's not a conservative, by whatever twisted (and wrong) reasoning you use, he sure as hell has their undying support.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #121 on: September 17, 2018, 11:41:16 am »
Yes, thank you for finding that.  That's why it hasn't been tested.

Or it hasn't been tested because of political cowardice, or because the tilt to judicial activism builds upon itself and becomes more bold over time, finally provoking a government to push back.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-those-who-rewrote-the-constitution-would-be-glad-were-finally-using/
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #122 on: September 17, 2018, 06:20:59 pm »
Or it hasn't been tested because of political cowardice...

Maybe because Trudeau's supporters aren't angry idiots, but traditionalists (or conservatives in other words) who wouldn't be pleased with the overreach.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #123 on: September 17, 2018, 06:57:48 pm »
Maybe because Trudeau's supporters aren't angry idiots, but traditionalists (or conservatives in other words) who wouldn't be pleased with the overreach.

There are no conservative supporters of Trudeau. And Trudeau hasn't shown he gives a **** what conservatives think, anyway. The only people he's worried about are all those Liberal premiers who would feel threatened by such overreach, especially the one in Quebec.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #124 on: September 18, 2018, 01:35:35 pm »
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While Ford contends that the courts should not rule on political decisions, he has committed $30 million of our tax money to ask a court to overturn the federal government’s carbon tax program.

As a wise, old college professor once told me, “you can’t suck and blow at the same time.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/4460547/bill-kelly-doug-fords-double-standard/

Ford wants the courts to overrule an elected Parliament....   but says courts should never overrule an elected government. 

How do conservatives square that circle?
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #125 on: September 18, 2018, 04:29:53 pm »
Ford wants the courts to overrule an elected Parliament....   but says courts should never overrule an elected government. 

How do conservatives square that circle?

Well, since he didn't said courts should never overrule an elected government it isn't really a problem.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #126 on: September 18, 2018, 04:37:26 pm »
Well, since he didn't said courts should never overrule an elected government it isn't really a problem.

So I see conservatives square that circle by simply denying that it ever happened!   :P


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“What’s extraordinary is … a democratically elected government trying to be shut down by the courts,” Ford told reporters.

“That concerns me more than anything. That should be concerning to every single person in Ontario.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/ford-says-he-ll-use-notwithstanding-clause-in-attempt-to-force-cuts-to-toronto-council-1.4086779


Ford is concerned about courts overruling elected governments....   Ford using courts to try and overrule elected federal government.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 04:39:24 pm by the_squid »

Offline Omni

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #127 on: September 18, 2018, 04:43:39 pm »
Ford wants the courts to overrule an elected Parliament....   but says courts should never overrule an elected government. 

How do conservatives square that circle?

Maybe DoFo should follow in his dearly departed brothers footsteps and go out and fill in a few potholes instead of making a fool of himself by issuing such  contradictory statement of intent. 

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #128 on: September 18, 2018, 06:04:17 pm »
So I see conservatives square that circle by simply denying that it ever happened!   :P

Ford is concerned about courts overruling elected governments....   Ford using courts to try and overrule elected federal government.

The courts have a legitimate place in refereeing between the powers allotted to the different levels of government. And a legitimate place in identifying legislation which is unconstitutional. I don't believe anyone has ever denied either of those things.

The problem with the court in this particular case was its ruling didn't stick to constitutional norms - ie, the province has a perfect right to do whatever the hell it wants with the municipalities, but instead invented the idea that somehow or other people's rights to free expression were being denied in doing so near an election. It was a preposterous ruling that had no constitutional basis other than "cuz I say so". I'd have no problem with government of any shade overruling that. The notwithstanding clause was made for rulings like that.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #129 on: September 18, 2018, 07:30:07 pm »
The courts have a legitimate place in refereeing between the powers allotted to the different levels of government. And a legitimate place in identifying legislation which is unconstitutional. I don't believe anyone has ever denied either of those things.

I never said anyone here said that....  I quoted Doug Ford as saying that.    And was wondering how people who believe like you do would be able to support such a hypocritical position, given that  he is talking out of both sides of his mouth.


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The problem with the court in this particular case was its ruling didn't stick to constitutional norms - ie, the province has a perfect right to do whatever the hell it wants with the municipalities, but instead invented the idea that somehow or other people's rights to free expression were being denied in doing so near an election.

The problem with Doug Ford’s court case against the federal government is that it doesn’t stick to constitutional norms.   Of course the feds can create taxes.   They always have.

Legal advice requested by the government of Manitoba noted there was a “strong likelihood” the Supreme Court would uphold Ottawa’s carbon pricing system on the basis of the federal government’s taxation power.

Allan Hutchinson, a constitutional law expert and professor at York University’s Osgoode Hall law school, said the Supreme Court has ruled that both the federal and provincial governments have jurisdiction over the environment but “the feds sort of hold the trump card.”

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #130 on: September 18, 2018, 07:32:01 pm »
I suppose if the federal government did lose the Ford court case, they could just use the Nothwithstanding Clause.   No one would have an issue with that, right?

Offline Omni

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #131 on: September 18, 2018, 08:17:34 pm »
I suppose if the federal government did lose the Ford court case, they could just use the Nothwithstanding Clause.   No one would have an issue with that, right?

That's correct. If DoFo gets a parking ticket, bring on the "notwithstanding clause", shove that ticket where the monkey put the peanut.
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Offline MH

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #132 on: September 19, 2018, 06:13:38 am »
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That’s according to a new Ipsos poll, conducted exclusively for Global News, in which 65 per cent of Torontonians, 59 per cent of Ontarians and 59 per cent of Canadians said they’re more upset with the process adopted by Ford, rather than his stated goal of reducing the size of council.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4463552/doug-ford-notwithstanding-clause-toronto-poll/

Wow.  I wasn't expecting that.  Not exactly shocking but certainly surprising.  In fact, I am suspicious.  Since when has Joe Ontarian even know what the 'notwithstanding' clause is anyway ?


Offline poochy

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #133 on: September 19, 2018, 08:15:12 am »
The courts have a legitimate place in refereeing between the powers allotted to the different levels of government. And a legitimate place in identifying legislation which is unconstitutional. I don't believe anyone has ever denied either of those things.

The problem with the court in this particular case was its ruling didn't stick to constitutional norms - ie, the province has a perfect right to do whatever the hell it wants with the municipalities, but instead invented the idea that somehow or other people's rights to free expression were being denied in doing so near an election. It was a preposterous ruling that had no constitutional basis other than "cuz I say so". I'd have no problem with government of any shade overruling that. The notwithstanding clause was made for rulings like that.

It is considered to be a bad ruling by most experts, at the same time this whole thing is just a spiteful attempt to stick it to Toronto city council, it could have waited.  It's a silly reason to use the NWC, even if you disagree with the ruling, ford was kind of asking for it.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #134 on: September 19, 2018, 10:50:52 am »
I never said anyone here said that....  I quoted Doug Ford as saying that.    And was wondering how people who believe like you do would be able to support such a hypocritical position, given that  he is talking out of both sides of his mouth.

No, that's the job of people on the Left. My support for Ford's use of the notwithstanding clause was the clear idiocy of the idiot judge who ruled against it. Or as the court of appeal has just stated:

“The question for the courts is not whether Bill 5 is unfair but whether it is unconstitutional. On that crucial question, we have concluded that there is a strong likelihood that application judge erred in law and that the Attorney-General’s appeal to this court will succeed.”

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The problem with Doug Ford’s court case against the federal government is that it doesn’t stick to constitutional norms.   Of course the feds can create taxes.   They always have.

I suppose they can. But I've never stated I support or oppose Ontario's appeal of the carbon tax. I'm not a lawyer so I really don't know if they have some technical case or not. And in any case, my issue is not with how the provinces fight with the feds, since that has always been filled with idiocy. My issue is with judicial overreach.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum