Author Topic: Ontario Government of Doug Ford  (Read 1788 times)

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Offline MH

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Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« on: September 10, 2018, 05:33:16 pm »
So... two major court cases lost and now the buffoon is going to use the Notwithstanding clause.

Over basically nothing.

We will have had two major uses of it:

1) By Quebec to appease separatists and disallow English in some contexts - a debatable historical necessity
2) And now, because Doug doesn't think the courts should overrule him

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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2018, 05:54:42 pm »
The courts ruling was that Ford presented little evidence to support a hastily prepared argument that the legislation would result in more effective representation or that it would make council more efficient and save money. He tried to change the rules in the middle of a city campaign, another idiotic move. Who elected this reactionary moron anyway?
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2018, 06:41:07 pm »
The courts ruling was that Ford presented little evidence to support a hastily prepared argument that the legislation would result in more effective representation or that it would make council more efficient and save money. He tried to change the rules in the middle of a city campaign, another idiotic move. Who elected this reactionary moron anyway?

The people.

As far as I'm aware the municipalities are creations of the provinces, who can do basically anything they want to them, including abolishing them. The judge's complaint that there wasn't enough consultation or that there wasn't evidence that it would be more efficient strikes me as ... so? I mean, so what? They don't need to do that to change the rules for cities all they want. There's no requirement for consultations and there's absolutely no need to demonstrate in legislation that a proposed change to 'improve efficiency' actually will. We've seen numerous such changes over the years at all levels of government to 'improve efficiency' and how many of them actually did? The courts don't get to look over the goverment's shoulder to judge whether a change is going to be efficient or not. That's not their responsibility and they have no particular training for it. I'm fairly confident this will be reversed on appeal. It certainly should be! I can only speculate they decided to use the notwithstanding clause because of the time constraints.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline the_squid

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2018, 07:03:49 pm »
The people.

As far as I'm aware the municipalities are creations of the provinces, who can do basically anything they want to them, including abolishing them. The judge's complaint that there wasn't enough consultation or that there wasn't evidence that it would be more efficient strikes me as ... so?


From the judgement:
Quote
At first glance, Bill 5 although controversial in content appears to fall squarely within the province’s legislative competence. Upon closer examination of the surrounding circumstances, however, one discovers at least two constitutional deficiencies that cannot be justified in a free and democratic society. The first relates to the timing of the law and its impact on candidates; the second to its content and its impact on voters.
http://www.ontariocourts.ca/scj/decisions/

A Province's powers are not absolute....   
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2018, 09:05:58 pm »
I support the reduction in wards, it's a bit ridiculous right now.  It's not the GTA remember, it's 47 wards for Toronto, double the number of provincial and federal constituencies for the city i believe.

But you also don't do this during an election, so I'm with the judge i think.  Just wait until after the election Dougie, don't use the clause.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2018, 10:08:22 pm »
You can't have the boundaries of constituencies be dramatically redrawn and have candidates have to significantly change their campaign strategies and have half the city's residents have a new set of candidates in their riding just 6 weeks before an election.  It's insane.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline MH

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2018, 05:45:54 am »
I agree with Graham.  Whatever the motivation here, the government of Ontario can do what it wants however not recklessly.  I think the next Luberal government should use the notwithstanding clause to ban the PCs😉
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2018, 03:08:32 pm »

From the judgement:http://www.ontariocourts.ca/scj/decisions/

A Province's powers are not absolute....

“While the SCC has used s 2(b) to protect electoral fairness especially with respect to political financing ... it’s a novel argument to say that it protects the ‘right to cast a ballot that can result in effective representation,’” Dawood wrote.

“People often make the mistake of calling judicial decisions they disagree with activist. This is not one of those cases,” Anglin writes. “Because the judge couldn’t invoke Section 3 of the Charter (which doesn’t apply to municipalities), he wrote himself a new Charter in which Section 2 does the work of Section 3.”
Anglin said that the judge’s argument concerning political rights under Section 3 of the Charter “doesn't apply to municipal elections” and that the argument Belobaba made rests on “two inapplicable” Supreme Court of Canada (SCC) precedents.

“the court's reliance on the free expression rights of voters and candidates is problematic for several reasons. It distorts the idea of free expression - and runs contrary to existing SCC decisions.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/legal-scholars-surprised-by-judge-s-reasoning-in-toronto-council-cuts-decision-1.4087964
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2018, 03:09:52 pm »
I agree with Graham.  Whatever the motivation here, the government of Ontario can do what it wants however not recklessly.  I think the next Luberal government should use the notwithstanding clause to ban the PCs😉

Can't be done. And if it could, don't you think Harper, who loathed the Liberals, would have at least considered doing it?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2018, 03:15:30 pm »
Can't be done. And if it could, don't you think Harper, who loathed the Liberals, would have at least considered doing it?

Harper ran afoul of the electorate before he could try that.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2018, 03:18:32 pm »
Harper ran afoul of the electorate before he could try that.

He was in power almost ten years. I think he had more than enough time.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2018, 03:28:08 pm »
He was in power almost ten years. I think he had more than enough time.

I suspect being found in contempt of parliament scared him off.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2018, 03:41:18 pm »
I support the reduction in wards, it's a bit ridiculous right now.  It's not the GTA remember, it's 47 wards for Toronto, double the number of provincial and federal constituencies for the city i believe.

But you also don't do this during an election, so I'm with the judge i think.  Just wait until after the election Dougie, don't use the clause.

Why is it ridiculous? You realize there are many provincial/federal constituencies that have many cities and towns in them with dozens of municipal representatives?

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2018, 05:00:29 pm »
Why is it ridiculous? You realize there are many provincial/federal constituencies that have many cities and towns in them with dozens of municipal representatives?

Go look at the map at the boundary size of some of the wards in Toronto.  There's 25 provincial and federal constituencies in Toronto, yet 47 municipal constituencies.  Double?  Really?  That's a bit ridiculous.

Let's look at the new boundaries for Ward 20:  https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/973b-Ward20_map.pdf
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2018, 05:35:42 pm »
Go look at the map at the boundary size of some of the wards in Toronto.

Yes, that is about 2:1, where in other parts of Ontario it is well over 10:1.

What again is the problem, do you think that Toronto should be way less represented than the rest of the province?