Author Topic: Ontario Government of Doug Ford  (Read 10329 times)

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Offline MH

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #360 on: November 02, 2022, 09:05:33 am »
If anything, a renewed mandate means that this government will not give Public Sector Unions double digit annual raises.

With all the school time lost to COVID, there is also popular sentiment not to let schools close again.

I suspect Dofo will be fine for fighting with these Unions here.

Maybe - but then why did they go back to the table ?  I wonder if, during this crazy era of skyrocketing cost of living, people are starting to support folks who make less than $40K.  You literally can't live on that in Toronto.

Offline Slim Shady

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #361 on: November 02, 2022, 09:27:43 am »
Maybe - but then why did they go back to the table ?  I wonder if, during this crazy era of skyrocketing cost of living, people are starting to support folks who make less than $40K.  You literally can't live on that in Toronto.
I don't think many government employees make less than $40k a year.  But you're right, it's difficult to afford to live in Toronto on that kind of salary.  There's always the option to move to a city that's less expensive, or have a roommate etc.  Perhaps if the federal government stopped making everything more expensive, people could afford much more.  But tripling the carbon taxes, increasing EI taxes, increasing CPP taxes, and endless unlimited immigration, etc have financial consequences. 

Offline Boges

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #362 on: November 02, 2022, 12:37:49 pm »
Maybe - but then why did they go back to the table ?  I wonder if, during this crazy era of skyrocketing cost of living, people are starting to support folks who make less than $40K.  You literally can't live on that in Toronto.

These are low skilled jobs. It's actually shocking that these jobs aren't outsourced TBH.

But yeah they deserve a raise. But apparently they're holding firm at 11% per year. If everyone got raises like that to reflect this bump inflation it would be a self perpetuating cycle of inflation.

Offline MH

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #363 on: November 02, 2022, 01:06:26 pm »
I don't think many government employees make less than $40k a year.  But you're right, it's difficult to afford to live in Toronto on that kind of salary.  There's always the option to move to a city that's less expensive, or have a roommate etc. 

Sure, but you would also have to give up said job.  Is that what they want ?

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Perhaps if the federal government stopped making everything more expensive, people could afford much more.  But tripling the carbon taxes, increasing EI taxes, increasing CPP taxes, and endless unlimited immigration, etc have financial consequences.

Federal Govt. causing that damn worldwide inflation... goddam 11 cent/litre carbon tax is killing me.  I can hardly afford my $2700/month rent

Offline MH

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #364 on: November 02, 2022, 01:08:09 pm »
These are low skilled jobs. It's actually shocking that these jobs aren't outsourced TBH.

There are rules about outsourcing too.  I don't think you can fire staff that way.

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But yeah they deserve a raise. But apparently they're holding firm at 11% per year. If everyone got raises like that to reflect this bump inflation it would be a self perpetuating cycle of inflation.

Rather than what we have now, which is the race to the bottom for people who work for a living.

I really feel sorry for contractors.  I know a few of these guys who have been in it for 20+ years and are living high off the hog with big families too.... they are about to get kicked in the gut with no union, since they're gig economy folks.

Offline Boges

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #365 on: November 02, 2022, 01:11:48 pm »
There are rules about outsourcing too.  I don't think you can fire staff that way.

Rather than what we have now, which is the race to the bottom for people who work for a living.

I really feel sorry for contractors.  I know a few of these guys who have been in it for 20+ years and are living high off the hog with big families too.... they are about to get kicked in the gut with no union, since they're gig economy folks.

Is the solution to the Race for the bottom paying everyone $50k/year for any medial job though?

The issue is that a lot skilled labour has either evaporated or been devalued.

Offline MH

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #366 on: November 02, 2022, 01:18:58 pm »
Is the solution to the Race for the bottom paying everyone $50k/year for any medial job though?

"Menial" doesn't really figure into it. 

Manhandling an autistic kids who tries to attack teachers or students without hurting him, yourself, or getting anyone sued might be 'menial' but it's not low skilled and it's not unimportant.
 
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The issue is that a lot skilled labour has either evaporated or been devalued.

So you want to devalue more jobs ?  I don't understand.

"Skilled" labour didn't exactly include factory labour jobs across the board and people lament those salaries dropping too.
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Offline Slim Shady

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #367 on: November 02, 2022, 01:36:25 pm »
Sure, but you would also have to give up said job.  Is that what they want ?

Federal Govt. causing that damn worldwide inflation... goddam 11 cent/litre carbon tax is killing me.  I can hardly afford my $2700/month rent
If you choose to live in a very expensive city, you can't be surprised when it's very expensive.

The federal government has caused Canadian inflation, as well as raising the carbon tax during covid, and it's set to increase again.  What you and others fail to realize is that tax applies to any goods and services that are manufactured, and/or transported in any way.  So basically, EVERYTHING.  You also don't acknowledge the government's role in bringing in hundreds of thousands of new citizens, adding to the demand of housing at a time when it's already scarce.  That's why buying/renting has gotten so expensive.  Supply CANNOT keep up with demand, but the federal government doesn't care.  They won't even pause things just temporarily. 

Offline Boges

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #368 on: November 03, 2022, 09:15:22 am »
If you choose to live in a very expensive city, you can't be surprised when it's very expensive.

The federal government has caused Canadian inflation, as well as raising the carbon tax during covid, and it's set to increase again.  What you and others fail to realize is that tax applies to any goods and services that are manufactured, and/or transported in any way.  So basically, EVERYTHING.  You also don't acknowledge the government's role in bringing in hundreds of thousands of new citizens, adding to the demand of housing at a time when it's already scarce.  That's why buying/renting has gotten so expensive.  Supply CANNOT keep up with demand, but the federal government doesn't care.  They won't even pause things just temporarily.

You're wrong. Inflation is being caused by issues associated with demand ramping up from COVID. Carbon Taxes have been around for awhile and it's also a Global problem.

Immigration is actually a great way to grow the economy because our fertility rate is low and Canadians don't seem to want to do the menial jobs that don't always pay too well. Assuming that every Canadian that comes simply sucks up resources is, quite frankly, racist.

Offline Slim Shady

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #369 on: November 03, 2022, 09:42:06 am »
You're wrong. Inflation is being caused by issues associated with demand ramping up from COVID. Carbon Taxes have been around for awhile and it's also a Global problem.

Immigration is actually a great way to grow the economy because our fertility rate is low and Canadians don't seem to want to do the menial jobs that don't always pay too well. Assuming that every Canadian that comes simply sucks up resources is, quite frankly, racist.
I didnít say inflation was caused by taxes, but increasing carbon taxes does make everything more expensive.  And immigration is fine, as long as itís done responsibility, based on certain metrics.  Immigration at high levels for a sustained period of time can burden society, especially social services, and housing which is scarce.  These things have to be taken into consideration, and thereís no indication that they are.  Trudeau has announced record high immigration again this year, despite our situation.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #370 on: November 03, 2022, 10:09:56 am »
These are low skilled jobs. It's actually shocking that these jobs aren't outsourced TBH.

But yeah they deserve a raise. But apparently they're holding firm at 11% per year. If everyone got raises like that to reflect this bump inflation it would be a self perpetuating cycle of inflation.

Inflation in 2020 was less than 1%, in 2021 was 3.4%, and this year about 7% so far.  But they want a 11% raise per year the next 3 years.  They want a 33% raise and are threatening to hold the education of kids as leverage to get it in a time when kids have already missed a ton of school outside the classroom.  And when inflation drops back to normal levels is their wages going to drop?  Of course not.

I'm not sure if this is right to use the Notwithstanding clause on this though.

Maybe public sector workers could get a bonus for inflation reasons, but that may cause more inflation.  I do think our healthcare workers should all have been getting bonuses because a lot of them have quit and now the system is in crisis for lack of staff, but that has nothing to do with inflation and everything to do with having a really hard job during COVID.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #371 on: November 03, 2022, 10:24:00 am »
You're wrong. Inflation is being caused by issues associated with demand ramping up from COVID. Carbon Taxes have been around for awhile and it's also a Global problem.

Immigration is actually a great way to grow the economy because our fertility rate is low and Canadians don't seem to want to do the menial jobs that don't always pay too well. Assuming that every Canadian that comes simply sucks up resources is, quite frankly, racist.

There's many reasons for the inflation.  Demand for certain goods/services increased during COVID while others fell and demand for other goods/services have gone up this year from pent up demand, but a lot of it is also supply issues (disrupted supply chains from COVID & working from home).  Some of it is the money many governments worldwide have given people and money saved from not commuting or going to restaurants/concerts/sporting events/gyms etc during lockdowns, some of it is increased costs of goods due to carbon taxes etc etc

For housing costs, its essentially a matter of demand outstripping supply.  There are many pressures on demand:  foreign investors, domestic investors (buying for air bnb, rentals etc), rising immigration under Trudeau from 270k to 400k a year going mostly to larger cities.  As for supply issues i'm not sure, could be municipal red tape issues on building, and construction slowing down because of COVID.

Immigration is good for the economy overall, but can also put pressure on infrastructure and certain other resources if not managed properly and demand outstrips supply.  You can call it a "population growth" problem if "immigration" offends you.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #372 on: November 03, 2022, 12:15:47 pm »
PM Trudeau condemns Ontario government's intent to use the notwithstanding clause in worker legislation - clearly and pointedly states that using the notwithstanding clause to suspend workers' rights is wrong!

in the HOC, PM Trudeau asks PeePee no less than 6 times... 6 times... to condemn the Ford Government's intention to invoke the notwithstanding clause - asked Rights&FreedomChampion Poilievre, Rights&FreedomLuvin Poilievre to speak to the Ontario Conservative government's expressed intention. And what does PeePee finally say? Oh my, such a bold & inspiring CPC leader! Short video that captures the pitiful Poilievre reply:

Offline waldo

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #373 on: November 03, 2022, 01:30:52 pm »
just sayin'! The federal power of disallowance has never been revoked... is still on the books, hey DOFO! Constitutional scholars consider it the so-called nuclear option; something that might/could be used to, say... prevent the illegal or unilateral secession of a province - or perhaps the frivolous use of the notwithstanding clause to 'bust the Charter' by taking away workers rights! Again, just sayin! G&M's Andrew Coyne gets it:

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Ontario Government of Doug Ford
« Reply #374 on: November 03, 2022, 02:12:39 pm »
just sayin'! The federal power of disallowance has never been revoked... is still on the books, hey DOFO! Constitutional scholars consider it the so-called nuclear option; something that might/could be used to, say... prevent the illegal or unilateral secession of a province - or perhaps the frivolous use of the notwithstanding clause to 'bust the Charter' by taking away workers rights! Again, just sayin! G&M's Andrew Coyne gets it:

If the Liberals were in power in Ontario the Trudeau gov wouldn't make a peep.  They are hypocrites.
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