Author Topic: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?  (Read 2240 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2018, 11:22:03 am »
Why do you think that is ?

In all the media coverage of BLM and it's complaints, have you ever once seen, in a news story on any mainstream channel or newspaper, what would or should be an important statistic - that Blacks commit a hugely disproportionate share of violent crime? I mean, if you're talking about and repeating statistics about how many Blacks are killed by police shouldn't the fact Blacks commit a greatly disproportionate amount of crime be included as an important data element? But it never is. The mainstream media falls almost entirely in-line with progressive groupthnk on such issues, and does not want to mention facts which might offend progressives or 'give encouragement' to racists.

So the racial component of crime is never brought up by the media except, rarely, by a conservative columnist in an opinion piece. Mentioning it offends progressives. But in dealing with Ottawa and Muslim crime it also brings up another progressive touchstone - immigration. Pointing out how many of our violent crimes are being committed by immigrants might give people pause to wonder if we should maybe change our immigration system - and the media don't want that sort of thought percolating out there among the great unwashed.

Likewise, the 'dissaproval' of homosexuality and the new progressive holy touchstone of transgenderism by immigrants is not to be discussed, for this would (to the progressive mind) mean discussion of the 'less enlightened' social values of immigrants.

Any subject which might tend to cause disapproval of a particular minority group will be downplayed or ignored. Who is doing the shooting in Toronto, in Vancouver? That's never mentioned either. It's almost always ethnic 'racially visible' gangs who are a byproduct of immigration.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline JMT

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2018, 07:58:17 pm »
Because white people never do anything wrong, right?

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2018, 08:06:12 pm »
In all the media coverage of BLM and it's complaints, have you ever once seen, in a news story on any mainstream channel or newspaper, what would or should be an important statistic - that Blacks commit a hugely disproportionate share of violent crime? I mean, if you're talking about and repeating statistics about how many Blacks are killed by police shouldn't the fact Blacks commit a greatly disproportionate amount of crime be included as an important data element? But it never is. The mainstream media falls almost entirely in-line with progressive groupthnk on such issues, and does not want to mention facts which might offend progressives or 'give encouragement' to racists.

It's not an important element because blacks are killed at a much higher rates than whites.  Bringing up raw numbers confuses the issue and makes it seem relevant when it's not.

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So the racial component of crime is never brought up by the media except, rarely, by a conservative columnist in an opinion piece. Mentioning it offends progressives. But in dealing with Ottawa and Muslim crime it also brings up another progressive touchstone - immigration. Pointing out how many of our violent crimes are being committed by immigrants might give people pause to wonder if we should maybe change our immigration system - and the media don't want that sort of thought percolating out there among the great unwashed.

I think it's more that they will think it's open season on Muslims. 

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Likewise, the 'dissaproval' of homosexuality and the new progressive holy touchstone of transgenderism by immigrants is not to be discussed, for this would (to the progressive mind) mean discussion of the 'less enlightened' social values of immigrants.

But in what context does the news point out that immigrants don't support sex-ed ?  How is that supposed to be presented ?  They cover the sex-ed story and there are immigrants opposing it, what else would you expect ?  "Dateline Toronto - BLACK PEOPLE HATE SEX ED !"

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Any subject which might tend to cause disapproval of a particular minority group will be downplayed or ignored. Who is doing the shooting in Toronto, in Vancouver? That's never mentioned either. It's almost always ethnic 'racially visible' gangs who are a byproduct of immigration.

Well, as I have pointed out the biggest city has the most immigrants and a relatively low crime rate.  You want to make immigrants into a problem, go ahead - this will do it. 
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2018, 10:41:42 pm »
But in what context does the news point out that immigrants don't support sex-ed ?  How is that supposed to be presented ?  They cover the sex-ed story and there are immigrants opposing it, what else would you expect ?  "Dateline Toronto - BLACK PEOPLE HATE SEX ED !"

 Last summer when we were talking about the BLM appropriation of Toronto Pride, I posted a column written by a gay black man who wrote that he was scared to go anywhere near Caribbana because of rampant homophobia in the Toronto Caribbean community. But people only talk about homophobia when it's emanating from white Christian rednecks. I feel like maybe SJ has a point here.

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2018, 10:48:05 pm »
  But people only talk about homophobia when it's emanating from white Christian rednecks. I feel like maybe SJ has a point here.
 

What "people" ?  Are there news stories where they just read stereotypes of a cue card that I don't get to watch ?

"in the news tonight, Christian rednecks are homophobes"
"in the news tonight, immigrants hate sex ed"

There's no obligation for the "news" to comment on popular prejudices either way.

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #50 on: February 22, 2018, 12:11:20 am »
Last summer when we were talking about the BLM appropriation of Toronto Pride, I posted a column written by a gay black man who wrote that he was scared to go anywhere near Caribbana because of rampant homophobia in the Toronto Caribbean community. But people only talk about homophobia when it's emanating from white Christian rednecks. I feel like maybe SJ has a point here.

 -k

Clearly, people are talking about homophobia among brown people. You, SJ, the Black guy in your example, and no doubt many more Canadians around their kitchen table, on Facebook, or reddit or discussion forums. 

What you seem to expect is that news media go to extra lengths to point out specifically immigrant or "brown people" who are homophobic.  No doubt the Catholic Church would also like news media to focus on the homophobia of Baptists and the Baptists would like the focus to be on Protestants and the Protestants would like to focus to be on ... Well, you get the idea I'm sure. 

In regards to the Ontario sex education issue, I found several articles about different groups that opposed it.  The groups were Catholics, a pro-life group, another Christian group and a Muslim group.  To me, that seems to be pretty even handed reporting.   

If we've got people talking about homophobia among "brown people" and if the media is reporting on  groups that represent "brown people" and have the same opinions as White redneck Christians, what more do you want?   


Offline SirJohn

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #51 on: February 22, 2018, 11:37:21 am »
It's not an important element because blacks are killed at a much higher rates than whites.  Bringing up raw numbers confuses the issue and makes it seem relevant when it's not.

Of course it's relevant. Who are police going to shoot? Criminals! So if Blacks have a higher propensity to commit crime, especially violent crime, it naturally follows that they'll be more violent interactions with police. The narrative is this is about racism only because of the statistics, but if you take in Black crime statistics the evidence of racism disappears.

The three most outrageous police killings of unarmed people last year all involved White victims, not Black.

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I think it's more that they will think it's open season on Muslims.

Is it their job to worry about that or should they simply be telling the facts?

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But in what context does the news point out that immigrants don't support sex-ed ?

If you have an angry crowd scene of people screaming abuse about the sex-ed curriculum and it's obvious from the images that almost all are from western Asia and the Indian sub-continent I would think that ought to be relevant to the story, if for no other reason than to develop the idea of the Liberals' "cultural insensitivity" to the people involved.

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Well, as I have pointed out the biggest city has the most immigrants and a relatively low crime rate.  You want to make immigrants into a problem, go ahead - this will do it.

Not talking about immigrants. Talking about the media and the way they massage the message in a progressive way which insults and arouses the suspicion of a lot of people who then begin to suspect the media is covering things up because of their ideology. BTW has the media ever pointed out that the highest crime areas in Canada appear to be those with high indigenous populations?

If you won't talk about something in public it can't be fixed.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2018, 11:45:20 am »
So if Blacks have a higher propensity to commit crime, especially violent crime, it naturally follows that they'll be more violent interactions with police.

propensity

noun

    an inclination or natural tendency to behave in a particular way.


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I won't say it, but I won't let you weasel out with that 'if' qualifier excuse. You made a clear targeted statement.




Offline SirJohn

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2018, 11:49:12 am »
propensity

noun

    an inclination or natural tendency to behave in a particular way.


---

I won't say it, but I won't let you weasel out with that 'if' qualifier excuse. You made a clear targeted statement.

Blacks commit crime in a much higher proportion than their numbers in Canada, the US and the UK. Happy now? No qualifiers needed.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline JMT

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2018, 11:55:37 am »
Blacks commit crime in a much higher proportion than their numbers in Canada, the US and the UK. Happy now? No qualifiers needed.

And why do you think that is?  Feel free to spit it out.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2018, 12:09:14 pm »
And why do you think that is?  Feel free to spit it out.

Why would I have to spit anything out? I've written on the subject a number of times in the past. Spitting is for progressives who get furious whenever anyone says anything that challenges their thoughtless preconceptions.

There are a lot of socioeconomic reasons for Black crime and they differ somewhat from country to country. The bulk of the Black population in Canada comes from the Caribbean, and came in initially when the earlier Trudeau government allowed all the foreign nannies who had been working in Canada for years to become citizens. These were mostly women who had been forced to leave their children at home. Once they got citizenship they brought them to Canada. But those children were not happy. They had ties back home and none here. They barely knew their mothers, and had been largely raised by their grandmothers. They didn't have the same educational background as their Canadian age-mates. Resentful, they banded together, and as would be expected, started getting into trouble. These formed the genesis of the street gangs of today in central Canada. Somali youths coming here added to that.

In addition there is a very high rate of single parent families in the Black community and a lack of importance placed on education. The highest indication of poverty is being in a single parent family. It's also among the highest indications of propensity to commit crimes. Kids raised in poverty by a single parent (usually the mother) have a much higher likelihood to do poorly in school, drop out, and commit crimes.

Here's a noted American racist talking about the issue. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jun/23/barack-obama/statistics-dont-lie-in-this-case/
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2018, 12:22:14 pm »
Of course it's relevant. Who are police going to shoot? Criminals! So if Blacks have a higher propensity to commit crime, especially violent crime, it naturally follows that they'll be more violent interactions with police. The narrative is this is about racism only because of the statistics, but if you take in Black crime statistics the evidence of racism disappears.

It doesn't.    My understanding is that the 'rate' of shooting of blacks is 3X that of whites.

 
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If you have an angry crowd scene of people screaming abuse about the sex-ed curriculum and it's obvious from the images that almost all are from western Asia and the Indian sub-continent I would think that ought to be relevant to the story, if for no other reason than to develop the idea of the Liberals' "cultural insensitivity" to the people involved.

The question of 'cultural insensitivity' is only strange, or even remarkable to people who reject ideas such as reasonable accommodation and pluralism.  Why is the news showing images of Asia and India for an Ontario education story ?

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Not talking about immigrants. Talking about the media and the way they massage the message in a progressive way which insults and arouses the suspicion of a lot of people who then begin to suspect the media is covering things up because of their ideology. BTW has the media ever pointed out that the highest crime areas in Canada appear to be those with high indigenous populations?

If you won't talk about something in public it can't be fixed.

"The" media is NOT going to bring up the topic of race/nationality/creed and its relation to crime .   By "The" media, of course, I mean television.  The Rebel will cover it intensively.  Is that enough coverage for you ?

If not, then why ?  What would you do to foster such a discussion ?  What would you expect other individuals and groups to do ?

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2018, 04:24:21 pm »
It doesn't.    My understanding is that the 'rate' of shooting of blacks is 3X that of whites.

There are a number of numbers going around. 2.5 is the basic number. But if Blacks are 2.5 times more likely to be involved in violent crime than whites that renders the statistic meaningless.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

 
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"The" media is NOT going to bring up the topic of race/nationality/creed and its relation to crime .   By "The" media, of course, I mean television.  The Rebel will cover it intensively.  Is that enough coverage for you ?

The Rebel is not the media, and despite your obsession with it, is not a site I visit.

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If not, then why ?  What would you do to foster such a discussion ?  What would you expect other individuals and groups to do ?

To start with, it's obvious that the numbers of single mother families has a major impact on crime within the black population. People of influence within that community need to be enlisted to start pushing the idea that if you father a child you damned well have to FATHER it. I would also take away the drivers license of men who breed children and then ignore them and the mother. As to immigrant groups and crime, the answer is to address those depending on the crime and community involved, and if the community has been statistically noted for producing an unusual number of criminals STOP BRINGING IN MORE people from that community. Ie, Somalia, Jamaica, Haiti, for example.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #58 on: February 23, 2018, 06:16:29 am »
There are a number of numbers going around. 2.5 is the basic number. But if Blacks are 2.5 times more likely to be involved in violent crime than whites that renders the statistic meaningless.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

I agree, but that's not how I took it to mean.  Let's look into it.

 
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The Rebel is not the media, and despite your obsession with it, is not a site I visit.

It's called 'Rebel Media' so I guess you ARE talking about television.  If we're talking about television (vs web) there are some attributes of TV that make it more centrist, and more left leaning than its media ancestors or descendants.

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To start with, it's obvious that the numbers of single mother families has a major impact on crime within the black population. People of influence within that community need to be enlisted to start pushing the idea that if you father a child you damned well have to FATHER it. I would also take away the drivers license of men who breed children and then ignore them and the mother. As to immigrant groups and crime, the answer is to address those depending on the crime and community involved, and if the community has been statistically noted for producing an unusual number of criminals STOP BRINGING IN MORE people from that community. Ie, Somalia, Jamaica, Haiti, for example.
  But you're doing what is called in management "solutioning".

Many people would also "solution" white males to take sensitivity courses to solve their insensitivity to POC. 

The more I look at all these social issues, the more I realize that true objectivity - in methods, or language for example - is the secret ingredient to drive the discussion.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #59 on: February 23, 2018, 09:22:40 am »
I agree, but that's not how I took it to mean.  Let's look into it.

Barring actual evidence of racism I take it that racism is not a primary factor. In a world where Justine Diamond can be shot in her pajamas outside her home without ever having said or done anything illegal or even been challenged by police no one should assume that racism is responsible for people who fight with police and resist arrest being killed.

 
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It's called 'Rebel Media'

It's a small web site of little importance beyond it's ability to make leftists fume.


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If we're talking about television (vs web) there are some attributes of TV that make it more centrist, and more left leaning than its media ancestors or descendants.

The mainstream newspapers are all pretty progressive in their social values and beliefs too.
 
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But you're doing what is called in management "solutioning".

Yes, finding a solution to a problem is what humans do.

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Many people would also "solution" white males to take sensitivity courses to solve their insensitivity to POC.

And many people would also 'solution' progressives to take anti-racism courses to solve their racism issues where they treat people differently based upon their skin pigmentation.

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The more I look at all these social issues, the more I realize that true objectivity - in methods, or language for example - is the secret ingredient to drive the discussion.

You can be objective and still have a dumb idea.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum