Author Topic: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?  (Read 1209 times)

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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2018, 04:56:44 pm »
A centrist is someone who can see both sides of the arguments.
It doesnít mean someone doesnít see your side of the argument if they disagree with it or think itís stupid.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2018, 06:36:35 pm »
Centrist isnít a position. Itís a ďpox on both housesĒ that defines itself by rejecting everything else. We donít need centrists. We need centrists in politics. We need people with principles who stand for something. I donít even care if Iím personally opposed to what they stand for but centrism is the consequence of intellectual laziness. People need to take some responsibility for their stances and stop riding fences.

Disagree.  Centrists don't lean to extremes, and aren't overly ideological, they have conservative views on some things & liberal views on others, & others where their views are more moderate.  "Centrist" isn't necessarily "riding fences", its usually where you tend to land on the spectrum when you add up all your views in different areas.  Someone who can't take a firm stance on an issue is something else entirely.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2018, 07:15:49 pm »
It doesnít mean someone doesnít see your side of the argument if they disagree with it or think itís stupid.
My post had two clauses which should have been taken together. Understanding both sides of an argument is a necessary but not sufficient criteria for a centrist. The other one is a willingness to seek consensus through compromise which is obviously not an option for people who think the other side is "stupid". Ideological purity may make extremists feel good about themselves but can never lead to effective governance of a society with a huge diversity of views. The most ideological purists can hope for is a few years of happiness where their ideology is imposed until their guys are booted out and all their changes are reversed by the opposite ideologues that replace them.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 07:20:00 pm by TimG »
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Offline Rue

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2018, 03:58:33 pm »
My post had two clauses which should have been taken together. Understanding both sides of an argument is a necessary but not sufficient criteria for a centrist. The other one is a willingness to seek consensus through compromise which is obviously not an option for people who think the other side is "stupid". Ideological purity may make extremists feel good about themselves but can never lead to effective governance of a society with a huge diversity of views. The most ideological purists can hope for is a few years of happiness where their ideology is imposed until their guys are booted out and all their changes are reversed by the opposite ideologues that replace them.

Of course, and your comments again make sense.
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Offline Boges

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2018, 10:02:43 am »
Polling suggests the PCs are the favourite no matter who they pick.

DoFo makes me cringe but if he can take home the Toronto burbs then it's worth it.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2018, 12:01:17 pm »
Polling suggests the PCs are the favourite no matter who they pick.

Yes, they do well without a leader. It is once they have a leader that they fail.
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Offline Boges

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2018, 12:42:11 pm »
Patrick Brown was also ahead in the polls. It's actually pretty shitty what happened to him.

No one treated Dalton McGuinty for his social awkwardness that they did Brown.


Offline kimmy

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2018, 08:34:43 pm »
Based on the poll I saw, Christine Elliot looks like the most popular choice among voters, with Mulroney 2nd and Ford third, with all three showing a strong chance of beating Wynne and Horwath in the election.

I was reading yesterday that Ford was campaigning about the sex-ed curriculum.  I assume this means he intends to fire up the yokels and rednecks and fight the leadership campaign on social conservatism.   This will probably hurt the party's image among the general electorate.

 -k
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Offline Boges

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2018, 08:45:01 pm »
I was reading yesterday that Ford was campaigning about the sex-ed curriculum.  I assume this means he intends to fire up the yokels and rednecks and fight the leadership campaign on social conservatism.   This will probably hurt the party's image among the general electorate.

Regrettably Elliot has also said she'd re-look at the Sex-Ed issue. I'm hoping it similar to Harper saying he'd "re-visit Gay marriage". And that just means having a vote that's destined to lose.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2018, 09:16:30 pm »
Patrick Brown was also ahead in the polls. It's actually pretty shitty what happened to him.

No one treated Dalton McGuinty for his social awkwardness that they did Brown.
Dalton McGuinty?  ::)

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2018, 12:03:14 pm »
I was reading yesterday that Ford was campaigning about the sex-ed curriculum.  I assume this means he intends to fire up the yokels and rednecks and fight the leadership campaign on social conservatism.   This will probably hurt the party's image among the general electorate.

My understanding is the greatest resistance to the Wynne sex ed changes are not coming from 'yokels and rednecks' but from 'brown' people in the cities. I've found it amusing how the stern progressive media voices who support the sex ed curriculum have managed to completely ignore that.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Boges

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2018, 12:47:32 pm »
My understanding is the greatest resistance to the Wynne sex ed changes are not coming from 'yokels and rednecks' but from 'brown' people in the cities. I've found it amusing how the stern progressive media voices who support the sex ed curriculum have managed to completely ignore that.

Well you can't call brown people homophobes. That's racist.

Offline MH

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2018, 01:48:16 pm »
... have managed to completely ignore that.

How ?  They have shown the opponents on video and in photos and many of whom are as you mentioned.  What of it ?  Do you expect them to point out the fact that these are immigrants ?  Or are you just happy that liberals are not aligning with immigrants on some issue as you suggest they are always doing ?

Offline Boges

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2018, 01:55:26 pm »
How ?  They have shown the opponents on video and in photos and many of whom are as you mentioned.  What of it ?  Do you expect them to point out the fact that these are immigrants ?  Or are you just happy that liberals are not aligning with immigrants on some issue as you suggest they are always doing ?

Trust me, it'll be painted as a redneck Chreeeestian rube thing. Not a Muslims hate gays thing.

Offline MH

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Re: Let the Caucus Pick the PC Ontario Leader ?
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2018, 02:21:08 pm »
Trust me, it'll be painted as a redneck Chreeeestian rube thing. Not a Muslims hate gays thing.

How are they going to do that exactly ?  CGI ?