Author Topic: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame  (Read 5182 times)

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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #135 on: July 03, 2019, 03:31:11 pm »
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Do you have a problem understanding what 'free speech' means, squid?

Yes.  Please tell me what that has to do with anything I said. 

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Until Police start documenting them, collecting evidence, laying charges ... drowning out hatred in public places is the standard way people deal with it: We are free to speak back. Lol

The problem is, the SJWs don't target hate speech...  they target people like Jordan Peterson...   people whom they disagree with.
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Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #136 on: July 03, 2019, 03:33:38 pm »
We get it.  You hate Jews. Police, and anything not left-of-centre.

Oh, the troll's back with a new name.

Interesting how far-right Jews like Vidorwhatever scream "You hate Jews" if you don't agree with their far-right, violent views.

No I don't hate police.
I actually really like police who do their jobs well.

I do get really pissed at Police brass who give them unlawful orders - e.g., to "stand down" and let Hate groups attack Pride Fest.

Offline Omni

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #137 on: July 03, 2019, 03:38:51 pm »
Oh, the troll's back with a new name.

Yep, sounds like a brain dead interloper from mlw.
I'm guessing taxme, just sayin, you never know eh?

Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #138 on: July 03, 2019, 03:48:16 pm »
Yes.  Please tell me what that has to do with anything I said. 
You said:
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From what I've seen with the SJW/anarchist "left" is that they want to ban any speech that doesn't agree with them.  Take Granny....  A microcosm of SJWs....  calling Moonlight names for disagreeing with her.
As I already said, MG is free to talk like a sanctimonious **** and I am free to speak back.
That's just free speech. We all have it.

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The problem is, the SJWs don't target hate speech...  they target people like Jordan Peterson...   people whom they disagree with.

So? You have a problem with free speech?
He's a hateful chauvinist pig, but I wouldn't waste time on that pathetic creep. But people are free to protest, drown him out if they wish. That's all free speech.

It concerns me much more that Hate groups targeting Muslims, Jews and Gay/Trans people are increasingly organized, increasingly violent, and are allowed to perpetrate hatred and violence in public spaces ... while police stand by and watch.
That's a concern for every community.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 03:51:21 pm by Granny »

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #139 on: July 03, 2019, 09:05:57 pm »
Because most people see a serious problem with that police behaviour.
It certainly is "pretty sick" behaviour by the Police Chief, allowing violent attacks by Hate groups at Pride Fest.

Yes it is pretty sick.  That's why I said it was pretty sick.  Notice I didn't say it was "pretty awesome".  If you get "pretty awesome" from "pretty sick" that's cool LOL go nuts.

It's also pretty sick to go around calling people ****.  But telling people off who call you an **** because they get butthurt and have reading comprehension & selective reading problems is "pretty awesome".  And by pretty awesome I mean pretty sick.  Pretty sick awesome sick.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #140 on: July 04, 2019, 12:59:20 am »
Drowning other people’s speech out is not a form of “free speech”.  That’s idiotic.   ::)
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #141 on: July 04, 2019, 06:52:43 am »
Drowning other people’s speech out is not a form of “free speech”.  That’s idiotic.   ::)

Really ?  I'm not sure.  A bunch of people yelling seems like free speech, especially lately.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #142 on: July 04, 2019, 10:32:38 am »
Really ?  I'm not sure.  A bunch of people yelling seems like free speech, especially lately.

Making it impossible for someone to use their free speech is just the opposite of what you're saying it is.    ::)

If everyone has a right to say what they want and be heard, then drowning them out by screaming like a banshee is impacting on their right.

I can see this issue driving people to the right of the political spectrum.   If the only party that attempts to defend the fundamental right of free speech is on the right of the political spectrum, then I can see lefties like me voting for them to defend that right.

« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 10:58:58 am by the_squid »
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Offline Omni

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #143 on: July 04, 2019, 11:21:59 am »
Making it impossible for someone to use their free speech is just the opposite of what you're saying it is.    ::)

If everyone has a right to say what they want and be heard, then drowning them out by screaming like a banshee is impacting on their right.

I can see this issue driving people to the right of the political spectrum.   If the only party that attempts to defend the fundamental right of free speech is on the right of the political spectrum, then I can see lefties like me voting for them to defend that right.

I fully agree with the concept of free speech, however I also think there should be a line drawn in the sand at hate speech. That's when things get complicated of course in determining exactly what constitutes hate speech. I would say the tiki torch wielders in Chatlotesville certainly made it across that line. Trump concluding that "there were very fine people on both sides" certainly wouldn't cause me to move my vote to the right.   

Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #144 on: July 04, 2019, 11:35:19 am »
Making it impossible for someone to use their free speech is just the opposite of what you're saying it is.    ::)

If everyone has a right to say what they want and be heard, then drowning them out by screaming like a banshee is impacting on their right.

There is no rght to "be heard"

Free speech does not guarantee anybody an adoring audience.
Nobody 'has to' listen.
People get booed off stages all the time.
We all have free speech.
We can speak back.


I've had this conversation with police ... successfully.
Nobody 'has to' listen politely while hate groups speak.
We can, and do, drown them out to protect people from hatred in public spaces.

Pride Defenders can block them behind a curtain and drown them out to protect Pride families from hatred in a public park, at Pride Fest.

When frustrated Hate groups become violent, police can arrest them for their violence.
Problem solved ... usually ...

But not at Pride Hamilton, because Police Chief Eric Girt refused to provide police services to Pride Fest, refused to stop the violence of the Hate groups against Pride Defenders.

Does he think Hate groups are 'free' to use violence if no one will listen to them?! 

Do you, squid?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 11:47:46 am by Granny »
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #145 on: July 04, 2019, 11:57:07 am »
There is no rght to "be heard"

You know not of what you speak.

"Freedom of expression is the right to speak, but also the right to hear".
-Canadian Civil Liberties Association
https://ccla.org/focus-areas/fundamental-freedoms/freedom-of-expression-2/


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Free speech does not guarantee anybody an adoring audience.

No one said it did.

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Nobody 'has to' listen.

No one said they did. 

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We all have free speech.

Not if someone is drowned out...  they lost their right to free speech and those listening lost their right to hear.

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We can speak back.[/b]


Speak...  yes.   Not scream like a **** banshee so no one can talk or hear.



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Does he think Hate groups are 'free' to use violence if no one will listen to them?! 

Do you, squid?

No one said anything about "free to use violence".  That's idiotic and a straw man.  You are arguing against something that no one has put forward.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 11:58:52 am by the_squid »

Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #146 on: July 04, 2019, 12:15:22 pm »
You know not of what you speak.

I do know exactly what I speak of. I've been doing this for years, and educating police too.

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"Freedom of expression is the right to speak, but also the right to hear".
-Canadian Civil Liberties Association
https://ccla.org/focus-areas/fundamental-freedoms/freedom-of-expression-2/

That's not a right to "be heard".
Nobody 'has to' hear Hate speech in public spaces.
From your link:
CCLA recognizes that strong protections for freedom of expression come with responsibilities.  When free speech is used to denigrate individuals and groups, we advocate for counter-speech and denunciation, rather than censorship.
(Censorship is what governments do.)

Counter-speech is what people do to drown out hatred  in public spaces.

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Not if someone is drowned out...  they lost their right to free speech
No they didn't. They just are not very popular and they got booed offstage. Too bad so sad.
No one wants to hear them.

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and those listening lost their right to hear.
Nobody ever comes "to hear" Hate groups. Lol
Nobody has ever complained that they 'can't hear' a hate group.lol
They can get a **** room and talk hatred all they want.
But not in public spaces.

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Speak...  yes.   Not scream like a **** banshee so no one can talk or hear.
No one wants to hear hate groups. Screaming is fine, horns, drums and noisemakers are too.

Go to a Ticats game ... it's ok to "scream like a **** banshee" when warranted. Lol

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No one said anything about "free to use violence".  That's idiotic and a straw man.  You are arguing against something that no one has put forward.
It is already "put forward" in this topic thread, because that is exactly what this thread is about:

Hamilton Police Chief Eric Girt refused police services to Pride Fest, and allowed Hate groups to violently attack Pride Defenders for close to an hour ... while police watched. 

Is that ok?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 12:43:38 pm by Granny »
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #147 on: July 04, 2019, 01:11:19 pm »
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That's not a right to "be heard".

Free speech includes a right to hear ...   that's clear.


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CCLA recognizes that strong protections for freedom of expression come with responsibilities.  When free speech is used to denigrate individuals and groups, we advocate for counter-speech and denunciation, rather than censorship.
(Censorship is what governments do.)

Counter-speech is what people do to drown out hatred  in public spaces.
 

That's total bullshit. 

The CCLA does NOT advocate drowning out other people so they can't be heard.   They advocate "counter-speech and denunciation"...  the exact opposite of what you are claiming.  That's not the same as drowning someone out you disagree with.  In fact, the CCLA thinks hate speech laws should be removed. 

You are clueless about the position of the CCLA.

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I've been doing this for years, and educating police too.

You haven't taught the police anything.  You're making **** up again.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #148 on: July 04, 2019, 01:47:31 pm »
I fully agree with the concept of free speech, however I also think there should be a line drawn in the sand at hate speech. That's when things get complicated of course in determining exactly what constitutes hate speech. I would say the tiki torch wielders in Chatlotesville certainly made it across that line.

There's a pretty high threshold usually to enforce hate speech in Canada, at least in the actual courts and not some of the more ridiculous provincial human rights tribunals that aren't run by real lawyers/judges.  Often it involves threats of violence against groups.  I'm sure some of the stuff in Charlottesville was hate speech if that happened in Canada.

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #149 on: July 04, 2019, 01:53:47 pm »
May I suggest you research the word "ironic".

Sorry, already tried turning the other cheek & being nice, it didn't work.  If there's going to be no punishment by mods for her actions, then i fight fire with fire and take matters into my own hands.  I won't start **** but i will end it.  And I really don't care in the least what you think about it since you're clearly biased and have a similar resentment for me as she does, simply based on the fact that I disagree with you politically.  Thanks for being so quick to defend me before (sarcasm), yet so quick to criticize me here.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley