Author Topic: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame  (Read 5146 times)

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #105 on: June 28, 2019, 09:16:10 pm »
Lots of left wing groups use violence and intimidation. There is no "tradition" that is exclusive to alt-right types.

How so ?

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That is what free speech means. Exceptions apply to incitement for violence (ironically, the 'jews are evil' march is most likely going to come from left wing pro-Palestinian groups today).

Do you have an example ?

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I used to be more sympathetic to notion that hateful speech that does not incite violence should be limited, however, it has become clear that any such limits will be used by people to censor legitimate political speech because too many people take that the attitude that people who they do not agree with are "evil" and any opinions they have are "hate speech" by definition.

Do you have an example ?

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The asymmetry exists only because many people are willing for tolerate left wing hate speech more than they will tolerate right wing hate speech. There is no asymmetry in the substance of the speech or the tactics used by the speakers.

Do you have an example ?

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #106 on: June 28, 2019, 11:18:48 pm »
I have yet to hear about a left wing group protest a valid right wing group, the only groups they protest are the NAZI fascists.

There are right wing conservative campus groups like "Young America’s Foundation" at universities who host conservative speakers like Ben Shapiro, and those events are targeted sometimes by Antifa among other protestors/groups.

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On September 14, conservative radio host Ben Shapiro gave a speech at the campus, which was covered by a crew for the political documentary No Safe Spaces.[59] No one wearing masks or with weapons was allowed on campus,[60] and the Berkeley City Council authorized the police to use pepper spray, a weapon that had been banned in the city for twenty years.[61] The campus also set up concrete barriers and metal detectors, with a UC spokesman stating that about $600,000 was spent on security for Shapiro's speech.[62] Hundreds gathered off campus at a "Refuse Fascism" rally to protest the event. Police made nine arrests; there was no major violence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Berkeley_protests#September_14

This makes no sense because Ben Shapiro, while he says controversial things like anti-trans & pro-choice viewpoints, he's an orthodox Jew who is not a Nazi and isn't remotely white nationalist or fascist and didn't vote for Trump.  Jordan Peterson is similar where he's controversial but not a Nazi/white nationalist/fascist.  I have no problem with people protesting these events as long as it's peaceful & the event isn't shut down.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #107 on: June 29, 2019, 12:45:14 am »
He has demonstrated his racist attitude on many occasions. Not only with the birther nonsense, but calling Colin Powell an "affirmative action general" or saying all native Americans ever achieved were dreamcatchers, tomahawks and cannibalism. Only his families religion (not sure if he is a practicing Jew) saves him from the NAZI label.

That’s comparable to **** Nazis??  Jesus man....     ::)
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #108 on: June 29, 2019, 02:33:30 pm »
That’s comparable to **** Nazis??  Jesus man....     ::)

Now we are onto the old level terminology. This is no different than the genocide debate, or the concentration camp debate. You have one side using the term because the person exhibits one or more traits, and the other side saying the person is pure as the driven snow because they haven't committed 100% of the sins.

Sorry if I skip this debate, it has played out too many times.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #109 on: June 29, 2019, 04:44:36 pm »
Now we are onto the old level terminology. This is no different than the genocide debate, or the concentration camp debate. You have one side using the term because the person exhibits one or more traits, and the other side saying the person is pure as the driven snow because they haven't committed 100% of the sins.

Sorry if I skip this debate, it has played out too many times.

You’ve stretched the word Nazi to be anyone you disagree with.  That’s pathetic, frankly.
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Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #110 on: June 29, 2019, 08:35:44 pm »
Still trying to flog the "fine people on both sides" Trumpism I see. Well at least this "fine person" from, guess which side, got what he deserves.

James A. Fields Jr., the man who drove into a crowd of counterprotesters in Charlottesville's "Unite the Right" rally two years ago, leaving one woman dead, was sentenced Friday to life in prison in his federal hate crimes case.
Fields pleaded guilty to 29 federal hate crimes in March as part of an agreement that eliminated the death penalty as a possible punishment. Under the punishment imposed by US Judge Michael F. Urbanski, Fields will serve his sentence without the possibility of parole.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/28/us/charlottesville-car-attacker-sentencing/index.html

I assume the hate crime charges were for the person he killed and the other 19+ hit as he smashed through the crowd.

There just is no question, no two sides on this issue.
Whatever your personal issues and challenges, inciting hatred, doing violence to people just because of who they are - Gay,/Trans, Muslim, Jew, SJW - it's just plain wrong.

No two sides.
No "fine people" on both sides.
No "both sides are ****".

There's haters who want to hate somebody, pick on somebody and do violence.
And there's people who don't want them to do that.

The haters are only 'winning' in the body count.

« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 03:52:17 pm by Granny »

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #111 on: June 29, 2019, 09:23:31 pm »
But ... it is true that like much of evolution, white is a genetic mutation that stuck around and adapted to northern climates.

However, as an oppressed race that still faces considerable hatred, discrimination, and barriers, I don't find her words resonating with me as hatred.

Not hatred???  She's a black supremacist who clearly expressed that caucasians are genetically inferior.  That is the definition of racism.  There's lot of bad racist things lots of white people do, but you don't have to hate all of them as a race for the sins of only some.  Hell, go hate the bad ones who are racist, at least that makes sense.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #112 on: June 29, 2019, 09:43:16 pm »
He has demonstrated his racist attitude on many occasions. Not only with the birther nonsense,

I don't remember seeing him be a birther. Link?

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but calling Colin Powell an "affirmative action general"

I've never seen Shapiro say racist things.  But I looked this up, he tweeted it back in 2012, i won't defend that one.

Anything in the last 5 years?

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or saying all native Americans ever achieved were dreamcatchers, tomahawks and cannibalism

He never said that.  A staff member posted a video with that in it on his website, he pulled it and apologized.

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Only his families religion (not sure if he is a practicing Jew) saves him from the NAZI label.

You don't know Shapiro much at all then because he wears a kippah/yarmulke at all times. An orthodox jew who said one racist thing 7 years ago doesn't make him a Nazi.  I get people not liking him, he's controversial and very conservative, I disagree with him on lots of stuff like trans issues/gun control/healthcare, but he's not anything close to being a Nazi, he openly despises white nationalism, & didn't vote for Trump.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #113 on: June 29, 2019, 09:48:35 pm »
Now we are onto the old level terminology. This is no different than the genocide debate, or the concentration camp debate. You have one side using the term because the person exhibits one or more traits, and the other side saying the person is pure as the driven snow because they haven't committed 100% of the sins.

Sorry if I skip this debate, it has played out too many times.

Yeah, maybe everything/everyone we vehemently disagree with isn't genocide and concentration camps and Nazis.  Comparing the people and deeds ones dislikes to Hitler and Nazis is the cheapest trick in the book.

Ben Shapiro is very clearly not a fascist.  He's actually been the target of a lot of anti-semetic hate the last few years.  Richard Spencer on the other hand...
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #114 on: June 30, 2019, 12:37:43 pm »
You’ve stretched the word Nazi to be anyone you disagree with.  That’s pathetic, frankly.

I never used the word Nazi, but you were far too lazy to see that. It was Tim that introduced it, and I said it was not my preferred word (I gave a much better one if you care to look).

Yeah, maybe everything/everyone we vehemently disagree with isn't genocide and concentration camps and Nazis.  Comparing the people and deeds ones dislikes to Hitler and Nazis is the cheapest trick in the book.

Same answer
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 12:39:38 pm by ?Impact »

Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #115 on: June 30, 2019, 04:31:33 pm »
Not hatred???  She's a black supremacist who clearly expressed that caucasians are genetically inferior.  That is the definition of racism.

There's lot of bad racist things lots of white people do, but you don't have to hate all of them as a race for the sins of only some.  Hell, go hate the bad ones who are racist, at least that makes sense.
She said Caucasians are a genetic mutation. In the out-of-Africa paradigm, it is true. Albinism and other genetic skin conditions gave birth to Caucasians.
That isn't news. Lol

I'm pretty sure that she and I would agree that the white patriarchy is a big problem. Lol

I'm not threatened by a bit of militancy in search of social justice.
It is the normal way our society evolves.
People stand up to injustice.

Bigotry is the tool of the patriarchy, to divide people. 

Bigotry is a Police Chief who withholds police services so bigots can violently attack Pride folk.

This guy, Christopher Vanderweide from Kitchener, is now in jail awaiting bail court (bail opposed), assault with a weapon x2, for these assaults:
https://twitter.com/VestsCanada/status/1140272182293127173?s=20

Bigotry is a Mayor who says Pink Bloc caused upset and mayhem at Pride Fest.
Unh, no.
That would be the Hate Groups attacking people causing upset and mayhem.

The white patriarchy has it's story ...
'
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 06:42:34 pm by Granny »

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #116 on: June 30, 2019, 04:35:11 pm »
I never used the word Nazi, but you were far too lazy to see that. It was Tim that introduced it, and I said it was not my preferred word (I gave a much better one if you care to look).

“Only his families religion (not sure if he is a practicing Jew) saves him from the NAZI label.”

=

I never called him a Nazi....    but he’s a Nazi.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #117 on: June 30, 2019, 07:24:27 pm »
She said Caucasians are a genetic mutation. In the out-of-Africa paradigm, it is true. Albinism and other genetic skin conditions gave birth to Caucasians.
That isn't news. Lol

To continue to defend her is disgusting.  Here's a few quotes from her.  Swap white with black and it is exactly the same as white supremacist and Nazi nonsense, and is clearly racist hatred:

- "Whiteness is not humaness, In fact, white skin is sub-human."

- "white people are a genetic defect of blackness"

- "They [white people] are genetically deficient because...[goes on to list a whole bunch of reasons why]"

- "White people are recessive genetic defects, this is factual"

- "Black ppl simply through their dominant genes can literally wipe out the white race if we had the power to".
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #118 on: June 30, 2019, 07:35:12 pm »
That's Toronto's issue.
Toronto Police still stayed on the job.

Not the topic of this thread.
We'd all be better off with a bit more melanin anyway.

And fewer violent white Christian bigots at Pride Fest.
https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_156194095667513&key=c7a018f99a67aaac33a35421e795cdf3&libId=jxjn9rbj010008oe000MAajuqptjo&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fcanadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com%2Fmanitoba-politics%2Fhamilton-pride-police-shame%2F105%2F%3Ftopicseen&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FVestsCanada%2Fstatus%2F1140272182293127173%3Fs%3D20&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fcanadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Dunreadreplies&title=Hamilton%20Pride%2C%20Police%20Shame&txt=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FVestsCanada%2Fstatus%2F1140272182293127173%3Fs%3D20

Do we really have to host bigots'  'free speech' at all public events they choose to harass and violently  attack?

They had free reign, no cops nearby.
Police would not respond to requests for help during violent attacks.

And according to the Mayor and Chief of Police,
... it's Pride's fault. Because the Police weren't "invited" to Pride Fest.

Chief thinks popo's hurt feelings warrant his refusal of Police service during violent hate assaults.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 09:09:03 pm by Granny »

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #119 on: July 01, 2019, 01:46:37 pm »
Hamilton pride “leaders” are also a bunch of thugs looking for trouble. 

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Hopperton, who was found guilty last year of being a "ringleader" in the Locke Street vandalism by anarchists opposing gentrification. The queer community, Hopperton said, should find the strength to be violent, or its choice to be peaceful will mean nothing.

I won’t say there’s good people on both sides...  I will say there are violent **** who are looking for trouble on both sides.