Author Topic: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame  (Read 4038 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #165 on: July 04, 2019, 04:44:28 pm »

There is no "should". There is only what people are willing to tolerate in public spaces.
We are free to speak back.
We are free to drown them out.

So you don't believe in freedom of speech or the freedom to hear. You just believe in might makes right. The only opinion that counts is yours and you will do your best to prevent anything that contradicts you.
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Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #166 on: July 04, 2019, 05:14:55 pm »
Like I said, you don't understand the difference between a person's right to hear something and a persons right to be heard. You are not the arbiter of what others are allowed to hear.

It's not a problem in public spaces. Nobody ever comes to hear them. Lol But there may be hundreds who come to counter them, drown them out.

If they book a room and invite only those who want to hear them ... maybe that's another matter.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #167 on: July 04, 2019, 05:51:31 pm »
here is no "should". There is only what people are willing to tolerate in public spaces.
We are free to assemble to counter-speak,  speak back at them.
We are free to drown them out.

Quote
It's not a problem in public spaces. Nobody ever comes to hear them. Lol But there may be hundreds who come to counter them, drown them out.

The police should be enforcing hate speech in the streets, that's the law (yes I know they didn't in this case, & yes that's a bad problem).

But what if an alt-right group gets a permit to have an assembly in a public place, but they've never spoken legal "hate speech" before and aren't doing so during the event, but are saying some very controversial things, like we must lower annual immigration rates etc.  Should protestors be free to drown them out with heckling etc.?  Is that breaking the law by "disturbing the peace" etc since they have a permit?  Is it harassment?

I queef, therefore I am.

Offline wilber

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #168 on: July 04, 2019, 07:23:47 pm »
It's not a problem in public spaces. Nobody ever comes to hear them. Lol But there may be hundreds who come to counter them, drown them out.

If they book a room and invite only those who want to hear them ... maybe that's another matter.
So let them speak to no one.  Why do you need to drown them out if no one is listening anyway?[/quote]

« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 04:11:09 pm by Granny »
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Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #169 on: July 04, 2019, 07:26:25 pm »
So you don't believe in freedom of speech or the freedom to hear. You just believe in might makes right.


Might in public voices to protect public spaces from hatred, yes.
And to defend.

Violent aggression against people ... because they are Gay Muslim etc ...  that comes from the right, as already acknowledged by some here.

And that's what happened here.

Offline wilber

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #170 on: July 04, 2019, 07:48:41 pm »


Might in public voices to protect public spaces from hatred, yes.
And to defend.

Violent aggression against people ... because they are Gay Muslim etc ...  that comes from the right, as already acknowledged by some here.

And that's what happened here.

Quite the crusader aren't you. And you call others sanctimonious.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #171 on: July 04, 2019, 08:15:44 pm »
The police should be enforcing hate speech in the streets, that's the law (yes I know they didn't in this case, & yes that's a bad problem).

Hate speech charges don't exist.

And it's quite onerous for police to lay charges under Section 319 - Public incitement of hatred. It requires documentation, investigation. It takes a long time and has to be approved by a politician, the Attorney General.
Wilful promotion of hatred (online, flyers, etc) likewise.

Hate crimes are only added to other offenses, and definitely should be for Christopher Vanderweide's assault w weapon x2.
Mr. V is a conversion-therapied hate filled violent Christian bigot ... criminal.

Quote
But what if an alt-right group gets a permit to have an assembly in a public place, but they've never spoken legal "hate speech" before and aren't doing so during the event, but are saying some very controversial things, like we must lower annual immigration rates etc.  Should protestors be free to drown them out with heckling etc.?  Is that breaking the law by "disturbing the peace" etc since they have a permit?  Is it harassment?

I don't think permits are given to hate groups in Toronto anymore. If so, good move by the Mayor.

Nobody get a permit to protest.
You don't ask permission from government to protest government ... or anybody else. Lol

Hate groups are not a **** parade.

But they love their police escort/security detail.
(Not sure why, because the Mayor/government can't direct the operations of the Police.)
That's not a cheering crowd for their parade, though.
Those are people of faith and strong conviction that Hate groups will not be tolerated in public spaces.

That's democracy in action.
We won't have groups spreading hatred in public spaces.

We're not the violent hateful alt-right criminals.

We're the public, protecting our own spaces from hatred.

I get that it's a challenge for police.

But hate groups put themselves there, in public, knowing that they won't be tolerated.
That's their choice, their problem.

They will be drowned out and chased away.

That's our right, to keep our neighbourhoods free of public hatred.

Police lining up to protect violent hate-filled criminals' 'free hate speech'... standing back to let criminals violently attack TransGendered anarchists, as happened here ...

Not acceptable.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 08:39:11 pm by Granny »

guest67

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #172 on: July 04, 2019, 08:43:57 pm »
I need to find you a nice comfortable retirement home Granny
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #173 on: July 05, 2019, 12:29:50 am »
Might in public voices to protect public spaces from hatred, yes.
And to defend.

The problem is, who decides what is "hatred".  You?  Me? It should be left up to the law. Unfortunately, the police failed to do their job in this case, big-time.
I queef, therefore I am.

Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #174 on: July 05, 2019, 12:57:09 am »
The problem is, who decides what is "hatred".  You?  Me? It should be left up to the law. Unfortunately, the police failed to do their job in this case, big-time.

The law isn't very helpful, but it can't be overly restrictive. So some civic action is also necessary..

It's unacceptable that police sometimes try to criminalize that civic action.

And of course, thoroughly unacceptable that in this case they allowed people to be violently attacked by Hate groups.
And police continue to harass those who were attacked.
Pretty sick.
It's a mess.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 01:15:55 am by Granny »

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #175 on: July 05, 2019, 10:42:34 am »

And of course, thoroughly unacceptable that in this case they allowed people to be violently attacked by Hate groups.
And police continue to harass those who were attacked.

I don't believe your characterization of the events.  The police weren't there...  they can't be everywhere.   They've made arrests.  Nothing to see here.

Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #176 on: July 07, 2019, 05:37:50 pm »
I don't believe your characterization of the events.  The police weren't there...  they can't be everywhere.   They've made arrests.  Nothing to see here.

Lots of cops watching from a distance, the edge of a large park.
 It took them 40 minutes to respond.

Police Chief:
"Keeping mind the context here. We were not invited to the event," he explained. "We were asked not to be at the event and we remained on the perimeter."
The chief noted the service's request to have a recruitment booth at Pride was denied.
He also said the decision to keep officers to the outer edge of the park was intentional.


I don't blame officers.
I blame biased and unlawful orders.
And it seems the Chief is still proud of his orders.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 05:44:44 pm by Granny »

Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #177 on: July 08, 2019, 04:12:20 pm »
So let them speak to no one.  Why do you need to drown them out if no one is listening anyway?

We don't want to hear hateful speech in public spaces. It isn't appropriate to poison public spaces that way,  when children or members of the groups they attack may be walking through, waiting for a bus, etc.

No one does come to hear them, and the only reason tbey are there is to challenge the laws, and be hateful to people.
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Wilber: 
 One thing I do know. No one could depend on you to stick up for their rights unless they are aligned with your own personal prejudices.

My "prejudice" is that policing is extremely important, and must be done impartially.
That didn't happen here.

I don't believe police officers should be put in the position of obeying obviously biased orders from a Police Chief and a vindictive Mayor who thinks he has a right to direct the operations of the Police.

That's at least two violations of The Police Services Act, I believe.

People attending Pride Fest have a right to expect police protection from violent assaults by homophobic Hate groups.

Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #178 on: July 13, 2019, 11:31:06 am »

Anti-gay bullying and violence, homophobic hatred ... and repressed homosexuality

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals/

Offline Granny

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Re: Hamilton Pride, Police Shame
« Reply #179 on: July 13, 2019, 11:57:36 am »
Quick update from Hamilton:

The Police Chief has not spoken publicly since his disastrous CBC interview where he gloated about refusing policing services to Pride folk under attack by violent Christian homophobes.
The Mayor has both feet in his mouth every time he speaks.
Mayor and Chief both continue to blame Pride ... and the Mayor wonders why he's getting hate mail. Lol

The Mayor and Council are entertaining a draft "Hate incident prevention policy" that never mentions hate except in the false title, and proceeds with a long list of petty nonsense things that "protesters" cannot do on public property, most of which violate Constitutional rights.

So ... Camp Chaos Gayz is now encamped outside City Hall, with hundreds of people rallying and partying there, intentionally breaking every 'rule' in the draft policy, and posting pictures to prove it. Lol

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10161926314250384&id=883820383

Tents, loudspeakers, generators, cars, children drawing with chalk on the cement, using electrical outlets, closing the road ... having 'unpermitted' nighttime dance parties, putting up posters everywhere that say "no posters without prior approval" ... lol

... general hilarity and playful pokes at City Hall.
Love it! LOL

With very serious intent.

 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 01:27:30 pm by Granny »