Author Topic: Doug Ford Helps the Poor  (Read 2502 times)

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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Doug Ford Helps the Poor
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2018, 07:56:59 pm »
What they create? What does a stock boy create? What does a barrista create? Or a cashier at a Wal-mart, or a restaurant server? What does a secretary create? How many people at lower levels create anything at all?
They, along with everyone in the supply-chain, create the means of profit for the exploitative Walton family and majority shareholders. Their earnings completely disproportionate to the actual value they bring to the enterprise.

Subsistence wages? The only people who get subsistence wages are those at the bottom. So maybe that should inspire them to improve their skillset so they make more? That's what it did for me, after all.
It’s a bread about minimum wage. No ****.

To your other point, the system is predicated on people at the bottom who are exploited. You give an abstract solution, so let me frame it as an abstract problem. What happens when EVERYONE improves their skills? Who is left to do the jobs that keep society running?
I didn't make any claim regarding subsistence. I merely pointed out that capitalism gives people payment in keeping with the value of their labour to the marketplace. If you want to earn a higher wage you need to increase your value by increasing your skills. And by the way, you seem to have forgotten why we work in the first place. We trade our labour for money to buy food, clothing and shelter. What you're complaining about is that some of the lower paid jobs ONLY do that, and don't give people luxuries. So what?
Subsistence wages is the capitalist form. Business MUST reduce their costs to ZERO. That means paying labour as little as peossible. The minimum you can pay is just enough for them to “get by.” Since full employment is impossible in a capitalist economy, EVERYONE’s wages are driven down by a reserve army of unemployed labour that capitalists use to threaten their workforce. You didn’t say “subsistence,” but it is inherent in the ideas you’re throwing around.
Walmart pays enough to get by on. My basic complaint is that socialism is twisting our society to the point where the majority of voters have no economic responsibilities to support the government's they're voting for, and thus no concerns whatever with governments which increase taxes and debt. In fact, many of the socialist set get furious at the mere suggestion the government might cut back some of those free services they get, and castigate those who call for such things as immoral! They also, of course, as in this topic, get furious at those who suggest that they ought to be contributing something to the upkeep of the government they're allowed to vote for.
Enough to get by on?

Ontario’s min wage is $11.40 per hour. Full time employees get 2080 hours per year. That’s $23712 per year, gross income. They say housing should cost you no more than 25% of your income. Have you seen many mortgages or apartments for less than $500/month? Or maybe you think people with full time jobs should cram together with strangers like the boarding houses of the past? The wages paid by these billionaires is an affront to the dignity of their workers.

But what do you care? You got yours, so **** those who are struggling, right? They’re masters of their own destiny, as long as you ignore the fact that the capitalist system cannot, has not, and will not ever have full employment. You propose an impossible utopia of everyone being able to better hemselves and get out of that condition. Yet everyone improving is not even a remote possibility. Society requires people in those jobs and nothing they do will improve their lot. If one person leaves, another takes their place. There is no end where ALL have the dignity of enjoying the true profits of their labour. In capitalist society everyone has the freedom to be exploited.
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