Author Topic: Clean Meat - Will you eat it ?  (Read 272 times)

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Offline MH

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Re: Clean Meat - Will you eat it ?
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2017, 08:04:05 am »
  I suspect once all of the costs and trade offs are added up it will be hard to compete with natural meat.

I think that's the point here: it is now starting to compete at least on a cost basis.

Offline TimG

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Re: Clean Meat - Will you eat it ?
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2017, 09:20:34 am »
I think that's the point here: it is now starting to compete at least on a cost basis.
Nonsense. It is still in the proof of concept phase: https://gizmodo.com/behind-the-hype-of-lab-grown-meat-1797383294

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“There has been a lot of news coverage for almost seven years now, even in times when there wasn’t a lot of new things going on,” Mark Post, Professor of Vascular Physiology at Maastricht University in the Netherlands, co-founder of Mosa Meat and creator of the first cultured hamburger, told Gizmodo. “It seems a bit excessive. It’s either one way or the other. It’s negative for reasons that are not traceable but there’s no particular evidence, it’s just feelings, or it’s very positive which is more related to high expectations and wishful thinking. The reality is that we don’t have a product yet. It’s taking quite some time and there are still hurdles to overcome on getting there.”

You need to separate the marketing hype provided by Musk-like entrepreneurs from the reality.

Offline MH

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Re: Clean Meat - Will you eat it ?
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2017, 10:19:30 am »
Fair enough.  I only based my assertion on the fact that you can afford a non-animal-meat burger today, but I concur that that's meaningless.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Clean Meat - Will you eat it ?
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2017, 11:58:23 am »
Lab grown meat is an interesting academic exercise. Industrial scale meat production will involve all of the same trade offs that come with raising animals. i.e. do you really believe that it would be  possible to have huge bioreactors consuming sugar and generating waste that did not have a problem with bacterial contamination? I don't, which means antibiotics will likely become required for "clean meat" production too. I suspect once all of the costs and trade offs are added up it will be hard to compete with natural meat.

Maybe for the time being.  But at some point, it'll become more economical to grow meat in a vat than in a field.  Factor in the unpredictability of feed and water supplies, and the likelihood of increasing drought and rising cost of land in the future, and it seems inevitable that this will happen some day.  That "adapt" thing you keep talking about?  This is one way people will adapt.

 -k
Masked for your safety.

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Re: Clean Meat - Will you eat it ?
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2017, 12:16:07 pm »
Maybe for the time being.  But at some point, it'll become more economical to grow meat in a vat than in a field.  Factor in the unpredictability of feed and water supplies, and the likelihood of increasing drought and rising cost of land in the future, and it seems inevitable that this will happen some day.  That "adapt" thing you keep talking about?  This is one way people will adapt.

 -k

No doubt the rich will have 'grown' meat as a demonstration of their wealth, while the rest of us have lab meat/no meat.   

Offline TimG

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Re: Clean Meat - Will you eat it ?
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2017, 12:23:17 pm »
But at some point, it'll become more economical to grow meat in a vat than in a field.
If it did it would require a lot of energy and generate a lot of waste products. We are talking a hypothetical but no technology is perfect. The car was hailed as a "clean" alternative to horses around 1900s and it but still created pollution. The car ended up being the better choice because it was faster and could carry more cargo. If all factory produced meat does is replace natural sources then I am not convinced inevitable downsides will be worth putting up with.
 
Factor in the unpredictability of feed and water supplies, and the likelihood of increasing drought and rising cost of land in the future, and it seems inevitable that this will happen some day.  That "adapt" thing you keep talking about?  This is one way people will adapt.
It would be a way to adapt if it is actually better. I am not convinced it will be.


Offline msj

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Re: Clean Meat - Will you eat it ?
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2018, 09:15:11 am »
Looks like the fight is on: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/23/the-fight-against-fake-meat-has-officially-begun.html

The usual “we are protecting consumers from those evil competitors” from those vested in the status quo industry:

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The U.S. Cattlemen's Association is looking to draw a line in the sand and launch what could be the first salvo in a long battle against plant-based foods. Earlier this month, the association filed a 15-page petition with the U.S. Department of Agriculture calling for an official definition for the term "beef," and more broadly, "meat."

"While at this time alternative protein sources are not a direct threat to the beef industry, we do see improper labeling of these products as misleading," said Lia Biondo, the association's policy and outreach director. "Our goal is to head off the problem before it becomes a larger issue."


Countered by the up and comers who want to challenge Goliath:

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Not everyone sees it that way. Ethan Brown, founder and CEO of Beyond Meat, said consumers already know what they're looking for when they're browsing the grocery store aisles. But he doesn't necessarily see the petition as a bad thing.

"I think it actually could help us more than it could hurt us because it starts the national dialogue around what really is meat, and if the origin of meat really matters to the consumer," said Brown.


Of course, there is a difference here:

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Clean meat refers to "meat" grown in a lab from a small amount of animal stem cells. This kind of meat isn't on the market yet, but it's in development. Plant-based meat is anything that mimics traditional meat but is made mainly using plant ingredients.

Now I suppose this is something the government should regulate.

Heaven forbid if someone expecting real flesh meat will accidently buy plant based meat.

I can not even imagine the horror upon discovery that tofurkey is not actually turkey!

Clean meat is perhaps a little less obvious though and I look forward to trying some some day.

Humans are terrible at predicting the future but it’s so fun lets throw out some projections anyway:

1) the current meat industry (MI) will use lobbying in government to regulate the alternative meat industry (AMI) hopefully out of existence (from the MI pov). This will just help increase the costs for all food but who cares since food inflation has been so low for so long that this is a non-issue at this time (i.e. food budgets in western countries are a fraction of what they were 3 generations ago).

2) Technology will find a way to make “clean meat” and even vegetable based “meat” so competive that the AMI will see some real noticeable growth.  The MI will continue to use government lobbying and regulation to protect their interests while the AMI lobbies for their interets.

3) A president /governors/premiers will be elected in the US and Canada based on political ideals of either protecting the MI (conservatives) or protecting the environment (progressives). 

Eventually the progressives will start to win and the MI will see possible bans on how they grow their product.

4) Just like Trump ending the coal ban too little too late, the same will happen to the MI.  A future poltician will do his/her best to bring back the old time meat industry to some sucess as foodies of the future appreciate the novelty of their paleo-animal-cruelty type diets. 

Of course, they will be marketed differently than that: pictures of solitary animals grazing in the open plains will romanticize and continue the lie that the MI propagates currently.

5) In the end, consumers will benefit by more choice, interesting new products, and less environmental impact. However, at the cost of only a few remaining jobs as the AMI will be easier to digitize than the MI.







I've gotta have more cow bell! -Bruce Dickinson

Offline JMT

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Re: Clean Meat - Will you eat it ?
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2018, 03:15:57 pm »
Maybe for the time being.  But at some point, it'll become more economical to grow meat in a vat than in a field.  Factor in the unpredictability of feed and water supplies, and the likelihood of increasing drought and rising cost of land in the future, and it seems inevitable that this will happen some day.  That "adapt" thing you keep talking about?  This is one way people will adapt.

 -k

I've been thinking a lot about you and clean meat.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Clean Meat - Will you eat it ?
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2018, 01:47:31 pm »
That was a joke, btw.....
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Offline MH

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Re: Clean Meat - Will you eat it ?
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2018, 02:06:47 pm »
That was a joke, btw.....

What is the joke though ?  'Clean meat' ?