Author Topic: Canadian healthcare  (Read 2302 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Canadian healthcare
« on: October 07, 2021, 12:18:47 am »
Canadian healthcare kinda sucks, at least in my experience in multiple cities.  It's much faster to see a doctor at a walk-in clinic than to see a doctor when you go to the ER.  Think about that for a minute.  By faster I mean 30 mins to 1hr vs 4-6 hrs.

If you're going to have a universal system it means it's rationed, based on how much money is spend on it by the gov.  So if you're going to have a universal single-payer system, the gov has to fund it adequately.  If they don't it's a human rights issue.  Forcing people to have 1 option that is mediocre or at times garbage is cruel.

So fund our healthcare properly.  Stick your childcare and Canada Summer Jobs stuff up your anus and put that money into healthcare.

The only other reasonable alternative is a private system where the the private insurers and medical industies are highly regulated.  Insurance should be the same cost for all regardless of age or pre-conditions, nobody can have their coverage cancelled due to health issues etc., the insurers cover the cost of drugs and equipment, and low income earners get it paid free by the state, deductibles are fairly low and based on income (low income = no deductible, while the rich pay more to cover the costs of the lower income earners.  You also should have a standardized level of care.  The rich shouldn't be able to get better coverage than the poor.  There's one plan for everyone.  This is much better than a 2-tier system, and very similar to our current system, except it's not rationed and people won't suffer needlessly.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2021, 01:20:13 am »
I was always against private healthcare and frowned on Americans but things are so bad now in Canada, i kinda agree.  Obviously I'd rather have Canada's free healthcare vs. an American without healthcare, but I'd gladly take the insured American's over ours.  Dental and Prescriptions are also part of the insurance, they're not extra like here.

For a while it was a hot topic during elections but now it's barely a blip.  It's like we've all come to expect that we can't count on the system.

I agree it's time for a change, even if that means private healthcare. 

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2021, 02:20:21 am »
It's much faster to see a doctor at a walk-in clinic than to see a doctor when you go to the ER.  Think about that for a minute.

one of the bigTime abuses in healthcare is people improperly using emergency rooms as a substitute/alternate for primary physician care. When you lead with this its really difficult to give the rest of your spiel any attention - yours isn't a serious OP!

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2021, 02:30:13 am »
...but I'd gladly take the insured American's over ours.  Dental and Prescriptions are also part of the insurance, they're not extra like here.

I agree it's time for a change, even if that means private healthcare.

yet another of your weaksauce posts - anyone proposing U.S. healthcare as a preferred option clearly hasn't a grasp of its failures, limitations, constraints, etc.. More pointedly, selectively choosing aspects of U.S. healthcare isn't at all a representative comparison to public universal health-care!

Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2021, 07:10:14 am »


So fund our healthcare properly.  Stick your childcare and Canada Summer Jobs stuff up your anus and put that money into healthcare.

The only other reasonable alternative is a private system...
Rather than charge the sick rich more, why not just tax all the rich more?

Offline MH

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2021, 08:13:10 am »
Rather than charge the sick rich more, why not just tax all the rich more?

Maybe force them to pay people more and the taxes will come as a result ? 

I am in favour of taxing them more if it doesn't chase away investment dollars.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2021, 08:52:01 am »
one of the bigTime abuses in healthcare is people improperly using emergency rooms as a substitute/alternate for primary physician care. When you lead with this its really difficult to give the rest of your spiel any attention - yours isn't a serious OP!

You can go to walk in clinics and get served much faster than an ER.  Your argument makes no sense.

If your emergency is an actual emergency and not just a medication refill you'll get triaged faster than the non emergency people, but people with real serious issues are still waiting several hours to see an ER doctor.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2021, 08:57:36 am »
I was always against private healthcare and frowned on Americans but things are so bad now in Canada, i kinda agree.  Obviously I'd rather have Canada's free healthcare vs. an American without healthcare, but I'd gladly take the insured American's over ours.  Dental and Prescriptions are also part of the insurance, they're not extra like here.

For a while it was a hot topic during elections but now it's barely a blip.  It's like we've all come to expect that we can't count on the system.

I agree it's time for a change, even if that means private healthcare.

I don't support the US system as it is,  it needs to be much more regulated to make it equitable and keep insurers and practicionrrs accountable.  The rich shouldn't have better healthcare than everyone else and insurers shouldn't allowed to put profit over people.

My preference is a well- funded universal single player system, but governments are failing us on that regard.  If they have to rise taxes then do it, I'd rather pay a bit more in taxes than have my health suffer.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 09:00:47 am by Coonlight Graham »
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2021, 09:01:45 am »
Rather than charge the sick rich more, why not just tax all the rich more?

Yes that's fine.   Either or.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2021, 10:09:42 am »
Per capita, the US spends twice as much as Canada on health care and yet their system hasnít handled this pandemic any better than ours.  If you look at the countries that out perform us, all have national systems rather than our Balkanized provincial setup which results in a lot of expensive duplication in many areas.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2021, 10:32:15 am »
Per capita, the US spends twice as much as Canada on health care and yet their system hasnít handled this pandemic any better than ours.  If you look at the countries that out perform us, all have national systems rather than our Balkanized provincial setup which results in a lot of expensive duplication in many areas.

Thatís more political than their healthcare system. If we had the same number of covid incidence per capita than them (they are more than 3x us) our system wouldíve fully collapsed by now.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2021, 10:36:38 am »
I don't support the US system as it is,  it needs to be much more regulated to make it equitable and keep insurers and practicionrrs accountable.  The rich shouldn't have better healthcare than everyone else and insurers shouldn't allowed to put profit over people.

My preference is a well- funded universal single player system, but governments are failing us on that regard.  If they have to rise taxes then do it, I'd rather pay a bit more in taxes than have my health suffer.

Yes I agree, I wouldnít want their system as is either (though wtf is the good of our system when it fails us so badly) but something in the middle. I was dead against a hybrid system but now Iím on the fence if it takes a number of people out of the system.

Ideally though, yes we could afford to put more into our own system. BC had a premium for healthcare which the NDP scrapped but even when we had it our healthcare still sucked.

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2021, 11:20:12 am »
It's much faster to see a doctor at a walk-in clinic than to see a doctor when you go to the ER.  Think about that for a minute.

one of the bigTime abuses in healthcare is people improperly using emergency rooms as a substitute/alternate for primary physician care. When you lead with this its really difficult to give the rest of your spiel any attention - yours isn't a serious OP!

You can go to walk in clinics and get served much faster than an ER.  Your argument makes no sense.

If your emergency is an actual emergency and not just a medication refill you'll get triaged faster than the non emergency people, but people with real serious issues are still waiting several hours to see an ER doctor.

no - when you compare the timeliness of walk-in clinics over ERs, you validate ERs as a viable option for non-emergency visits; again, as I emphasized, a significant abuse in healthcare is people improperly using emergency rooms as a substitute/alternate for primary physician care. Of course, ER triage prioritizes need; however, you're off base if you make broad sweeping generalizations that suggest ERs regularly aren't managing, as you say, "real serious issues"! Of course you could rise above your opinion by presenting actual data to support your claim - yes?

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2021, 11:33:33 am »
Any ranking system you care to quote doesn't put us in the top 20 regardless of the date.



oh snap waldo! You're welcome! But really, again... this says diddly about Canada's healthcare constraints, limitations, areas for improvement, etc., etc., etc.! And like a junkyard dog, the waldo will keep insisting that respective party health care related election pledges need to be stated, reviewed, analyzed, critiqued on their merits or lack therein. It's a fool's errand to attempt to look at other countries on a ranking number only and make a correlation back to particulars within the Canadian health care system!

If you look at the countries that out perform us, all have national systems rather than our Balkanized provincial setup which results in a lot of expensive duplication in many areas.

as a timely reminder, I've re-quoted the prior challenge you put forward about Canada not even being in the 'top 20'. But really, are you sure you want to, once again, make your broad country rank comparisons without considerations toward referencing real comparative in-depth analysis, ranking criteria, related data, etc.? Last time you tried this the waldo busted your bubble, hey; again:

I'm shocked you didn't acknowledge I busted your 'top 20' challenge!

The three ranked above us have mixed systems. Swedes are allowed to pay for private care.

these are meaningless statements in the broader context of analyzing 2-tier within the Canadian health care system - again, there are representative examples right here in Canada, yet for some reason you're fixated on country comparison by a single rank number - meaningless without in-depth analysis, ranking criteria, related data, etc., etc., etc.!

but hey, since it was an easy googly - the role of private health insurance in Sweden:

Quote
Private health insurance, in the form of supplementary coverage, accounts for less than 1% of health expenditures. It is purchased mainly by employers and is used primarily to guarantee quick access to an ambulatory care specialist and to avoid wait lists for elective treatment. In 2017 Sweden's population was approximately 10 million; of which 633,000 individuals had private insurance, representing roughly 13% of all employed individuals ages 16 to 64 years.

Offline wilber

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Re: Canadian healthcare
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2021, 11:58:34 am »
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world

WHO puts us at #30 in efficiency
https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

Hopefully this will provide more of the in depth analysis
that waldo craves but on the other hand, US News may be his ultimate authority.
 
Even the countries listed above us in waldo's list have national systems.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 12:02:46 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC