Author Topic: BC provincial election  (Read 2639 times)

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Offline the_squid

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #240 on: October 25, 2020, 12:36:34 am »
NDP clobbered the Libs.  Good decision.  Glad the Libs are far, far from power.

Good for the Greens.  A very strong showing.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2020, 12:51:02 am by the_squid »
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Offline eyeball

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #241 on: October 25, 2020, 10:22:56 am »
I haven't heard you float this idea before.  Sounds something like one I have posted so of course I love it  :D

Seriously, this is an interesting take.  I suspect something like this will happen eventually.  The system we have is rigid and top-down, not responsive.
I've been floating this stuff since Advancode Michael, you were there or so I thought.

Offline eyeball

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #242 on: October 25, 2020, 10:48:03 am »
But how do we have government departments, do they just make themselves out of nothing?
We keep working with what we have and add to, discard or change them thru parliament the way we usually do.

Quote
I think what you are getting at is the end of party politics. That would be nice to see but won't hold my breath. Politics will always be with us.
So will knitting circles.

Offline wilber

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #243 on: October 25, 2020, 01:52:16 pm »
We keep working with what we have and add to, discard or change them thru parliament the way we usually do.
So will knitting circles.

But how do you set up Cabinets etc?  Who do you hold accountable if everyone is an independent? Iím not trying to through cold water on the principle, just trying to see how it could work.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #244 on: October 25, 2020, 02:14:14 pm »
NDP clobbered the Libs.  Good decision.  Glad the Libs are far, far from power.

Good for the Greens.  A very strong showing.

Good for the Greens but both Wilkinson and Furstenau had sour grapes speeches, it was disappointing.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the NDP does from here. 

Offline the_squid

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #245 on: October 25, 2020, 05:31:39 pm »
Good for the Greens but both Wilkinson and Furstenau had sour grapes speeches, it was disappointing.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the NDP does from here.

I think it will be more of the same, which is good.

I don't really blame the Green Party leader for being pissed-off.  But that's ok...  maybe it'll put a bee in her bonnet and we'll see some feistiness. 

Offline wilber

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #246 on: October 25, 2020, 06:48:13 pm »
I think it will be more of the same, which is good.

I don't really blame the Green Party leader for being pissed-off.  But that's ok...  maybe it'll put a bee in her bonnet and we'll see some feistiness.

She now knows what Horgan's word is worth.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #247 on: October 25, 2020, 07:44:34 pm »
She now knows what Horgan's word is worth.

The Greens threatened to topple government a few times and stood in the way of $10/day childcare and easier access to unions.  Horgan didn't want to steer through a year of uncertainty with a shaky foundation, you really need to let this go that it was all a power grab.

Also, Horgan made a deal with Andrew Weaver's Green Party.  Weaver has left the Greens and has gone on to endorse Horgan.  That alone speaks volumes.




Offline wilber

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #248 on: October 25, 2020, 07:52:52 pm »
The Greens threatened to topple government a few times and stood in the way of $10/day childcare and easier access to unions.  Horgan didn't want to steer through a year of uncertainty with a shaky foundation, you really need to let this go that it was all a power grab.

Also, Horgan made a deal with Andrew Weaver's Green Party.  Weaver has left the Greens and has gone on to endorse Horgan.  That alone speaks volumes.

According to who? Horgan called the election four days after the Greens picked a new leader. Sorry but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #249 on: October 25, 2020, 10:52:07 pm »
According to who? Horgan called the election four days after the Greens picked a new leader. Sorry but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

The timing of the Furstenau's leadership only adds to my point.  At least with Andrew Weaver Horgan knew where he stands, there was history between the two.  An idea of expectations and speculations. 

I can't really blame the NDP for wanting to have control in what will be arguably a very difficult year.  He would need to negotiate on every little policy with a party with 3 seats and a brand new leader.

I'm not John Horgan to know exactly what is in his head, but I think painting him as power-hungry isn't completely fair.  There was pragmatism in his decision to call an election and I think you're refusing to acknowledge it.

As for 'according to who'... I'm not sure which part of my post you're referring to.  I made several points. 
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Offline wilber

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #250 on: October 26, 2020, 12:12:27 am »
Do party leaders lead parties or do they act for themselves? When they sign agreements, are they signing on behalf of their parties or just themselves? Who do they represent?

Sure there was pragmatism in his decision but was it about what was better for BC or for his own position.

By who I mean who says the Greens were being obstructive other than Horgan himself and what else is he going to say? He couldnít have been trying too hard if he called an election before Furstenau even moved in to her office. His campaign adds hit the air the day after, they were already in the can. He had been planning this since Weaver announced his resignation as leader.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #251 on: October 27, 2020, 12:13:23 am »
His campaign adds hit the air the day after, they were already in the can. He had been planning this since Weaver announced his resignation as leader.

Well yes, because that's the moment the agreement became void.  Weaver went on to become an independent and the agreement had stated:

"Both caucuses recognize that, in order to promote the greater stability, the government must be able to negotiate with the three BC Green Party MLAs as a single, recognized caucus."

Offline wilber

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #252 on: October 27, 2020, 09:13:55 am »
Well yes, because that's the moment the agreement became void.  Weaver went on to become an independent and the agreement had stated:

"Both caucuses recognize that, in order to promote the greater stability, the government must be able to negotiate with the three BC Green Party MLAs as a single, recognized caucus."

The agreement was signed on behalf of their caucuses, it wasnít just an gentlemanís agreement between the two of them. If the leaders of two countries sign an agreement on behalf of their countries, does that agreement become invalid if one of the countries selects a new leader? Does NAFTA become invalid if Trump loses the election. When you sign something on behalf of someone else, those arenít just empty words. Unless you are a politician.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 09:18:02 am by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline the_squid

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #253 on: October 27, 2020, 11:08:53 am »
The agreement was signed on behalf of their caucuses, it wasnít just an gentlemanís agreement between the two of them. If the leaders of two countries sign an agreement on behalf of their countries, does that agreement become invalid if one of the countries selects a new leader? Does NAFTA become invalid if Trump loses the election. When you sign something on behalf of someone else, those arenít just empty words. Unless you are a politician.

 NAFTA is a binding agreement.  This most certainly was not. 

Offline eyeball

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Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #254 on: October 27, 2020, 11:41:43 am »
But how do you set up Cabinets etc?  Who do you hold accountable if everyone is an independent? Iím not trying to through cold water on the principle, just trying to see how it could work.
Try imagining how yourself. I'd like to see how it would work too. I'm just one guy bringing one perspective to the issue of better governance. Much of that was shaped during a period of upheaval and activism stemming from the way fisheries were being managed on the west coast.   

I admit what I'm suggesting would require a vast complex and highly unlikely reshaping of our government likely involving changes to our constitution and even our confederation. I realize it's a desperate suggestion but still probably a lot easier than achieving better accountability by outlawing the secrecy or 'confidence' politicians and lobbyists bring to the public's domain.  That single simple measure would probably negate much of the need for anything else I'm suggesting. In any case I'm pretty sure we could assign a couple of undergrads aspiring to be policy wonks to the task of writing up a set of recommendations and such that would tease out the details.

In answer to your question though, a cabinet meeting is or could be little more than a bunch of department heads getting together.  Why does this have to be attended to with a bunch unnecessary politicizing? To demonstrate leadership apparently - something I just don't get, at all.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 11:43:28 am by eyeball »