Author Topic: BC provincial election  (Read 4645 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7522
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #150 on: September 29, 2020, 09:16:29 am »
I know sales-taxes have *some* impact on consumer spending, but is it really material enough to 'get the economy moving'?


I donít know. Sales taxes do take a bigger proportion of lower incomes and can be quite a chunk of money on larger purchases.

From a political point of view, Horganís getting rid of bridge tolls and MSP payments were a definite factor in getting him elected.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4437
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #151 on: September 29, 2020, 12:26:39 pm »


I donít know. Sales taxes do take a bigger proportion of lower incomes and can be quite a chunk of money on larger purchases.

From a political point of view, Horganís getting rid of bridge tolls and MSP payments were a definite factor in getting him elected.

I think instead of eliminating 7billion from the provincial coffers with a tax cut, they may have been smarter to propose an actual $7 billion plan to do something about the downturn in the economy....   infrastructure?  Parks?  Small business loans?  Increase healthcare spending to combat future pandemics?   

Nothing.  We get a tax break and the province goes further in the red for....  nothing....  what a plan!

The fact that the NDP is restoring BC Ferries, ICBC and B.C. Hydro after years of being raided for their money and driving them into a huge hole as well as running balanced budgets up until COVID tells me all I need to know about the BC Libsí (conservatives] fiscal competency vs the government we have now.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4437
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #152 on: September 29, 2020, 01:02:03 pm »
Quote
Today, in what is arguably the most cynical, most dishonest, and most outright dumb all-time acts of desperate vote-buying, Wilkinson has vowed to scrap B.C.ís seven percent provincial sales for a year and then cut it to three per cent the next year.

ďWhen they go low, we go lower,Ē might as well be his motto, in more ways than one.

It shows that Wilkinsonís B.C. Liberals have learned absolutely nothing from their well-deserved banishment from office following former premier Christy Clarkís pathetic attempt to throw her partyís ďprinciplesĒ out the door, in her vain effort to cling to power.

Before the COVID pandemic brought our economy to a standstill, crippling government revenues in the process, the sales tax was projected to yield $7.5 billion to provincial coffers.

It is the B.C. governmentís second-largest source of funding, accounting for some 22 percent of total taxation revenues, as the budget defines them.

Deliberately losing whatever remains of that drastically reduced revenue stream wouldnít just be grossly irresponsible; it would be insane.
https://www.straight.com/news/martyn-brown-in-bcs-election-of-duelling-blackguards-andrew-wilkinson-is-worst



Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7522
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #153 on: September 29, 2020, 01:27:35 pm »
I think instead of eliminating 7billion from the provincial coffers with a tax cut, they may have been smarter to propose an actual $7 billion plan to do something about the downturn in the economy....   infrastructure?  Parks?  Small business loans?  Increase healthcare spending to combat future pandemics?   

Nothing.  We get a tax break and the province goes further in the red for....  nothing....  what a plan!

The fact that the NDP is restoring BC Ferries, ICBC and B.C. Hydro after years of being raided for their money and driving them into a huge hole as well as running balanced budgets up until COVID tells me all I need to know about the BC Libsí (conservatives] fiscal competency vs the government we have now.

Everyone loves to drag out infrastructure as some kind of solution. The fact is, you aren't going to turn tens of thousands of servers and other hospitality workers into welders and other trades. I don't see how any of those other things are going to provide much of a stimulus either, even if they are worthwhile objectives on their own.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4437
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #154 on: September 29, 2020, 01:45:10 pm »
Everyone loves to drag out infrastructure as some kind of solution. The fact is, you aren't going to turn tens of thousands of servers and other hospitality workers into welders and other trades. I don't see how any of those other things are going to provide much of a stimulus either, even if they are worthwhile objectives on their own.

Infrastructure stimulus employs high wage welders who eat at restaurants and tip the lower paid hospitality workers.  But I didnít offer that as a solution because I think itís a great idea...   just a potential idea.  I probably put more thought into that post than Wilkensen did into his Ďcut the PSTí shitty idea though. 

 Cutting $7 billion from the coffers isnít going to create any jobs.  It isnít going to help provide more services to the increasing numbers of people/businesses who need help right now...   itís not going to get the person making $50k but isnít sure if theyíre going to be out of work soon to buy a new car or fancy watch.  It will help the guy making $100k in a stable job to save some money on his next Tesla purchase though.  But why does that guy need help?

Edited to add:

Quote
Overall the empirical evidence is that infrastructure spending does have a stimulatory effect on Gross Domestic Product (GDP) that is larger than some other types of spending. However, its effectiveness as stimulus isn't without caveats. In practice, it can only achieve this level of effectiveness in very specific circumstances, limiting its use to certain instances.
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/080816/can-infrastructure-spending-really-stimulate-economy.asp
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 01:49:47 pm by the_squid »

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7522
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #155 on: September 29, 2020, 02:04:51 pm »
Infrastructure stimulus employs high wage welders who eat at restaurants and tip the lower paid hospitality workers.  But I didnít offer that as a solution because I think itís a great idea...   just a potential idea.  I probably put more thought into that post than Wilkensen did into his Ďcut the PSTí shitty idea though. 

 

I don't think trades are having any trouble getting jobs as it is. Try and get one.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4437
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #156 on: September 29, 2020, 02:39:42 pm »
I don't think trades are having any trouble getting jobs as it is. Try and get one.

Youíre missing the point....   Iím not arguing for infrastructure stimulus.  I am saying that cutting the PST is probably the stupidest election promise since the feds promised to eliminate the GST, and then never did.

Offline BC_cheque

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1535
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #157 on: September 29, 2020, 03:39:48 pm »
:(Someone always does.

But who?  When the NDP started scrapping fees and extending benefits they also implemented a lot of new taxes (popular taxes might I add). 

The problem with the Liberals (and conservatives in general) is they just cut taxes but keep spending anyway. 

Serious question, how are the Liberals planning on recouping the lost revenue for the elimination of PST/speculation tax?

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7522
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #158 on: September 29, 2020, 04:01:31 pm »
But who?  When the NDP started scrapping fees and extending benefits they also implemented a lot of new taxes (popular taxes might I add). 

The problem with the Liberals (and conservatives in general) is they just cut taxes but keep spending anyway. 

Serious question, how are the Liberals planning on recouping the lost revenue for the elimination of PST/speculation tax?



We all do. A good chunk of our taxes goes to pay interest on money borrowed decades ago. We get zero value from it. New taxes are only popular for those who aren't paying them.

I don't know, that's my question as well. Eliminating the sales tax for a year would be good for the economy but how big and how long is the hangover going to be?

We are already 13 billion in the hole this year.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4437
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #159 on: September 29, 2020, 05:44:02 pm »
A cut like that would have very minimal benefit to the economy and no benefit to those who need it.  People out of work due to COVID are not going to buy a new car because the PST is eliminated. 

Directed cuts to those who need it would be of much more benefit.  Spending $7B on stimulus would be much more effective.

A desperate attempt to buy votes.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7522
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #160 on: September 29, 2020, 08:20:31 pm »
A cut like that would have very minimal benefit to the economy and no benefit to those who need it.  People out of work due to COVID are not going to buy a new car because the PST is eliminated. 

Directed cuts to those who need it would be of much more benefit.  Spending $7B on stimulus would be much more effective.

A desperate attempt to buy votes.

What are you going to stimulate? I get it though, you would rather have government spend the money than people.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4437
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #161 on: September 29, 2020, 09:46:40 pm »
What are you going to stimulate?

The economy.  But, I donít even agree that it needs $7Billion in stimulus. But, if youíre going to take $7B out of govít coffers, it would be better to spend it than eliminate the PST.

Quote
I get it though, you would rather have government spend the money than people.

What a stupid thing to put words in my mouth.    ::)

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7522
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #162 on: September 29, 2020, 09:52:53 pm »
The economy.  But, I donít even agree that it needs $7Billion in stimulus. But, if youíre going to take $7B out of govít coffers, it would be better to spend it than eliminate the PST.

What a stupid thing to put words in my mouth.    ::)

If you eliminate the the PST, the money will be spent.

Well it does seem you would rather have money spent by governments than individuals.

Personally, I think anything governments do will just be a band aid and we won't be out of the woods until there are effective treatments and vaccines. The only question is who will rack up the most debt buying band aids.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline BC_cheque

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1535
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #163 on: October 01, 2020, 07:42:49 pm »


We all do. A good chunk of our taxes goes to pay interest on money borrowed decades ago. We get zero value from it. New taxes are only popular for those who aren't paying them.

I don't know, that's my question as well. Eliminating the sales tax for a year would be good for the economy but how big and how long is the hangover going to be?

We are already 13 billion in the hole this year.

Since the vast majority of most of BC only has one home, of course, it'd be a popular tax.  And effective apparently. 

Cutting PST is an incredibly stupid idea, both economically and politically, but I'm totally cool with it because if this is the best they can come up with, it plays great for the NDP. 

Anyone who cares about PST (businesses or higher earners who are still making big purchases) was pretty much likely to vote Liberal anyway.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7522
Re: BC provincial election
« Reply #164 on: October 01, 2020, 07:47:24 pm »
Since the vast majority of most of BC only has one home, of course, it'd be a popular tax.  And effective apparently. 


Like I said, new taxes are only popular for those who don't pay them>

Quote
Cutting PST is an incredibly stupid idea, both economically and politically, but I'm totally cool with it because if this is the best they can come up with, it plays great for the NDP. 

Anyone who cares about PST (businesses or higher earners who are still making big purchases) was pretty much likely to vote Liberal anyway.

I don't know if it is a good idea either but the fact is, sales taxes take a larger chunk of lower incomes than they do higher incomes.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC