Author Topic: Alberta provincial election  (Read 1107 times)

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Offline kimmy

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2019, 11:13:36 am »
https://www.cbc.ca/1.5100085
Oilpatch hopes investment flows back to Alberta after big Kenney win
"Kenney's promise of setting up a "war room" to defend the sector against misinformation and attacks on social media and elsewhere is important, said Tristan Goodman, president of the Explorers and Producers Association of Canada, as well as a fresh approach on getting pipelines built."

I guess we can expect more paid oil trolls on discussion boards ... paid for by Albertans taxes.

I think they're talking more about counteracting anti-oilsands propaganda from some of the groups Kenney mentioned last night.

 -k
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2019, 11:19:18 am »
I like Mrs Notley a lot, and I think that if the federal court hadn't overturned the pipeline approval last September, she might have had a chance of winning.   A lot of the Calgary races were very close, and delivering a pipeline could have kept some of those seats orange.

The pipelines not being built certainly wasn't her fault.  She seems like a decent leader.

She was always fighting an uphill battle, since AB has always been a staunchly conservative province.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2019, 11:33:53 am »

LOL

You said contradictory things over two sentences. 

Difference being one Province is working through the courts in a legal way, the other, not so much.   I can disagree with the stance BC has taken, and we will see who will be correct through the courts.   Cutting off gas (which Alberta canít do anyway) is rhetoric and completely asinine.

It hasn't been established that Alberta's "turn off the taps" legislation is actually illegal or unconstitutional.  It's actually very similar to BC's plan to require permits for products being shipped through pipelines.  BC's plan is to refuse permits to substances they consider dangerous; Alberta's plan is to issue permits to maximize Alberta export revenues.  The bill doesn't actually make any reference to any specific pipeline or province, it's phrased in terms of managing limited pipeline capacity for maximum economic benefit.   In practice, that means using the single existing pipeline to transport bitumen for international sale.  There's nothing inherently illegal there;  BC was in federal court last month to argue that their own pipeline permitting plan is constitutional.

As a side-effect, of course that would also mean that BC wouldn't be getting refined products from Edmonton through the Kinder Morgan 1953 pipeline. BC would only be getting bitumen, and BC doesn't have any capability of using bitumen.  BC would have to refine it's own products or import them from elsewhere.  Of course BC's little Fisher-Price refinery at Burnaby can't come close to meeting Vancouver's fuel requirements, and refineries in the western US are already operating at maximum capacity, so actually tracking down refined products might be a bit of a challenge... and probably pretty expensive.



I don't think the "shut off the taps" will actually happen, but I kind of wish it would, just for a little while.  It would quickly educate smug lower-mainland enviro-weenies about the importance of Alberta fossil fuel products in their lives.  David Eby testifying in court that the situation was a crisis for BC residents would be informative, as would John Horgan explaining that point to the federal government and national media.



 -k
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2019, 11:39:22 am »
It will never happen. By the time it does, it will be too late. The USA is moving backwards, in regards to fossil fuels, and I suggest we should not even try, since inevitably people are selfish, and one day a catastrophe will happen. Then war and a mass genocide will likely occur. I just hope this occurs when I am dead in 40 years.

Why should Canada be singled out?

IMO Canada's policies on CO2 should be contingent on what the US does.  Canada is a very small drop in the bucket, we emit just 1.69% of the world's CO2.  The US produces 17% alone.  Even if every Canadian drove EV's and we by miracle cut our emissions in half, it would do almost nothing on a global scale.  Canada can't save the world and we can't destroy it either.  It makes no sense to sacrifice our economy & pocketbooks when others aren't.  We need an international effort led by the biggest culprits.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2019, 11:53:33 am »
It hasn't been established that Alberta's "turn off the taps" legislation is actually illegal or unconstitutional.  It's actually very similar to BC's plan to require permits for products being shipped through pipelines.  BC's plan is to refuse permits to substances they consider dangerous; Alberta's plan is to issue permits to maximize Alberta export revenues.  The bill doesn't actually make any reference to any specific pipeline or province, it's phrased in terms of managing limited pipeline capacity for maximum economic benefit.   In practice, that means using the single existing pipeline to transport bitumen for international sale.  There's nothing inherently illegal there;  BC was in federal court last month to argue that their own pipeline permitting plan is constitutional.

As a side-effect, of course that would also mean that BC wouldn't be getting refined products from Edmonton through the Kinder Morgan 1953 pipeline. BC would only be getting bitumen, and BC doesn't have any capability of using bitumen.  BC would have to refine it's own products or import them from elsewhere.  Of course BC's little Fisher-Price refinery at Burnaby can't come close to meeting Vancouver's fuel requirements, and refineries in the western US are already operating at maximum capacity, so actually tracking down refined products might be a bit of a challenge... and probably pretty expensive.



I don't think the "shut off the taps" will actually happen, but I kind of wish it would, just for a little while.  It would quickly educate smug lower-mainland enviro-weenies about the importance of Alberta fossil fuel products in their lives.  David Eby testifying in court that the situation was a crisis for BC residents would be informative, as would John Horgan explaining that point to the federal government and national media.



 -k

Over fifty percent of the existing TM capacity is Alberta crude going to Cherry Point and the other Puget Sound refineries. If Kenney can and does shut down transportation of refined product and conventional crude, BC will grind to a halt in a week and there will have to be more Alaskan tankers to make up the loss to US markets.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2019, 11:55:28 am »
Some people want to see more progress towards clean(er) energy, while others rely on the production of traditional (dirty) energy to pay their bills. Both valid points. There will be an end to fossil fuels somewhere down the road so we need to deal with that. Throwing stones across provincial borders isn't the way so hopefully cooler heads will prevail so we can make a smoother, sensible transition.

We also have to realize that blocking pipelines will not reduce the global use of oil.  Cars, trucks, planes, boats/ships, farming vehicles etc are going to run on oil for the foreseeable future not matter what AB or BC does, until clean vehicles & energy generation technology etc reaches critical mass.

It can't be understated how much the AB economy relies on oil and pipelines, and how much people in AB have been brutalized by the global drop in price in oil.  I have friends I know out of jobs, smart people, engineers etc, sitting at home who can't find work.  Stifling the pipelines only further puts salt in ABs wounds.

When a ton of jobs and incomes are on the line for people in your province, whether people like it or not, it is the AB premier's job to do everything in their power to get the oil flowing. Even if Kenney has to wage all-out trade warfare with BC or Ottawa, that's his job to do it.  It will make them realize how dependent we all are on AB and their oil.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2019, 12:04:39 pm »
I wonder how British Columbians would react if Albertans decided to "fix" BC's economy by restricting the access of the Port of Vancouver to the rest of Canada. I think I know and we might find out.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2019, 12:06:17 pm »
We also have to realize that blocking pipelines will not reduce the global use of oil.  Cars, trucks, planes, boats/ships, farming vehicles etc are going to run on oil for the foreseeable future not matter what AB or BC does, until clean vehicles & energy generation technology etc reaches critical mass.

It can't be understated how much the AB economy relies on oil and pipelines, and how much people in AB have been brutalized by the global drop in price in oil.  I have friends I know out of jobs, smart people, engineers etc, sitting at home who can't find work.  Stifling the pipelines only further puts salt in ABs wounds.

When a ton of jobs and incomes are on the line for people in your province, whether people like it or not, it is the AB premier's job to do everything in their power to get the oil flowing. Even if Kenney has to wage all-out trade warfare with BC or Ottawa, that's his job to do it.  It will make them realize how dependent we all are on AB and their oil.

Well if Kenney decides to go the route of cutting off the flow of gas to BC, then BC will shut off the flow of wine to Alta. Touche Mr. Kenney. From what I know of Kenney, between his corruption and far right attitude, things will be in turmoil, at least for awhile.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2019, 12:10:55 pm »
Kind of like taking on a Glock with a stick don't you think?
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Offline Omni

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2019, 12:19:22 pm »
Who'd want to face a long hot summer with no vino!

Offline wilber

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2019, 12:43:17 pm »
Who'd want to face a long hot summer with no vino!

Lots of vino from the US, South America, South Africa, Europe and Australia for sale in Alberta.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2019, 12:55:18 pm »
Who controls the BC coasts? Is it BC or federal?  I don't think a trade war would end well or solve much.

I guess we'll see maybe.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2019, 01:08:02 pm »
Who controls the BC coasts? Is it BC or federal?  I don't think a trade war would end well or solve much.

I guess we'll see maybe.

The answer to that question is very complex, especially when it comes to ocean shorelines. Are you talking near shore, far shore, what tide level are you focusing on, are you talking ports or just shoreline??? The jurisdictions are divided up in lots of ways.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2019, 01:11:01 pm »
The answer to that question is very complex, especially when it comes to ocean shorelines. Are you talking near shore, far shore, what tide level are you focusing on, are you talking ports or just shoreline??? The jurisdictions are divided up in lots of ways.

I'm talking ports.  I'm talking about access to trade, and the power BC has over AB and the RoC.

Seems like the provinces are probably very interdependent on one another.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Alberta provincial election
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2019, 01:22:50 pm »
From the Port's website.

Quote
The Vancouver Fraser Port Authority is responsible for the stewardship of federal port lands in and around Vancouver, British Columbia. Like all Canada Port Authorities, the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority is established by the Government of Canada pursuant to the Canada Marine Act, and accountable to the federal minister of transport.
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