Author Topic: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?  (Read 408 times)

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guest4

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"Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« on: November 17, 2017, 08:53:16 am »
This is a "newspaper" published in Toronto that vilifies Jews, Muslims, women and liberals.  It claims a disribution of 300,000 and a readership of a million.  It was banned from Canada Post last year and now its editor and publisher (James Sears and Leroy St. Germaine) have been charged under hate speech laws. 
http://www.cbc.ca/1.4403577

Link to The Ward news:  http://www.yourwardnews.ca/

This could be an interesting case to follow, see where the courts may define the limits of free speech.

I am also interested in whether people here think this type of speech should be shut down by government or if it is more effective to rely on social disapproval to limit its spread and influence.   

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Offline MH

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2017, 08:10:55 am »
Hate Laws are already well established and not contested.  What is contested is the extrajudicial power of the Human Rights Tribunals.  I agree with some of their rulings, not others, and I don't know about their current status.

This person seems like a violent nut-rag and I couldn't care less what the government does to him.  His 'Free Speech' excuse went away when he put implied threats in there.

Why is it that nobody advocating free speech actually have good ideas to push ?

Offline bcsapper

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2017, 10:50:20 am »
Hate Laws are already well established and not contested.  What is contested is the extrajudicial power of the Human Rights Tribunals.  I agree with some of their rulings, not others, and I don't know about their current status.

This person seems like a violent nut-rag and I couldn't care less what the government does to him.  His 'Free Speech' excuse went away when he put implied threats in there.

Why is it that nobody advocating free speech actually have good ideas to push ?

Free speech is a good idea.  Beyond that, who cares?
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline chilipeppers

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2017, 11:10:19 am »
Quite the rag, in league with Paul Fromm, not sure if they are over the line or not but Canada Post refused to deliver it.    Why does it say 'Aboriginal Owned and Operated' I wonder.

 

Offline MH

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2017, 11:12:41 am »
Free speech is a good idea.  Beyond that, who cares?

I guess it's interesting to discuss how the limits change, at least in the public perception, as technology reforms our social relations.  Or it might just be me. 

Offline MH

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2017, 11:13:24 am »
Why does it say 'Aboriginal Owned and Operated' I wonder.

Are you doubting it's true ?  Either way, it's probably a way to legitimize the opinions but it doesn't matter.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2017, 11:24:44 am »
I guess it's interesting to discuss how the limits change, at least in the public perception, as technology reforms our social relations.  Or it might just be me.

Free speech isn't for good ideas.  Nobody tried to shout down the guy who first said, "let's make everyone stop when a schoolbus has its lights flashing".


Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline MH

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2017, 11:33:40 am »
Free speech isn't for good ideas.  Nobody tried to shout down the guy who first said, "let's make everyone stop when a schoolbus has its lights flashing".

Actually, that is one of the reasons to have it.  It's not to give people the right to shout garbage about the Jews because they should.  It serves the 'public good' to have ideas out there.  Otherwise, the Church would still have control over all of our lives.

Offline kimmy

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2017, 11:39:44 am »
I certainly think it's reasonable for Canada Post to refuse to deliver this junk.

As for whether it rises to the level of hate speech, I am undecided. The content itself seems to be the kind of garbage you'd find at 4chan.  Perhaps it says something that right-wing extremists have decided that the best way to spread their views is the cartoon memes popular among those basement-dwelling shut-ins.

I think the "Streisand Effect" is something to consider here.  How many of us had heard of "Your Ward" before now? Is it good or bad that these guys are now more famous than they were?

 -k
Masked for your safety.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2017, 11:44:19 am »
Actually, that is one of the reasons to have it.  It's not to give people the right to shout garbage about the Jews because they should.  It serves the 'public good' to have ideas out there.  Otherwise, the Church would still have control over all of our lives.

Well there you go.  I'm sure those first anti church ideas offended someone.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline SirJohn

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2017, 11:59:17 am »
Why is it that nobody advocating free speech actually have good ideas to push ?

I advocate free speech, and I think my ideas are good.

Your mileage may vary, of course.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2017, 12:14:53 pm »
Well there you go.  I'm sure those first anti church ideas offended someone.

But they were good ideas... is the actual point.

Offline MH

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2017, 12:15:35 pm »
I advocate free speech, and I think my ideas are good.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

If everybody who differed with authority was wrong then maybe we wouldn't or shouldn't have free speech.  This idea sells well in China so it's not unheard of.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2017, 12:16:01 pm »
But they were good ideas... is the actual point.

Not to the people they offended.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

guest4

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2017, 12:58:12 pm »
So, I don't know if anyone spent much time perusing their back-issues, but they do suggest physical attacks on those they dislike (Jews/gays/Muslims/blacks/uppity women).  It is kind of cartoonish, which i suppose gives them the out of "But it was just a joke, surely you could see that".

So does this differ from Imam's preaching against Jews/gays in Mosques?