Author Topic: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?  (Read 372 times)

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Offline MAGA Graham

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2017, 08:57:32 am »
Yes, this is a good reason as to why we should have free speech but not why we do.  The reason why we do is because it works.  More below.

Yes.  The only thing we're leaving out is the utility of this right.  Tribal societies believe themselves to be special, and we are no different.  As such, the rights and mechanics we have evolved in our open, democratic, and economically 'advanced' societies are seen and taught as a point of pride.  Of course we should be proud of these things, but we need to understand why they work so we can continue to improve them.

The utility of this right isn't relevant.  As with all rights, we should be free to do whatever the heck we want as a base starting point, and our actions should be limited by law when what we do infringes on the rights of others.

The entire point & history of all human rights is to protect people from abuses of power by government. This is what our Charter is for, if you look through it.  There's a long history going back millennia even in the West (ie: monarchies) of governments abusing their power, shutting people up they want to silence (like people criticizing the government), throwing people in jail without charge or trial, and generally doing whatever authoritarian stuff they want.  Since the Magna Carta, human rights laws have been created to curtail these government abuses.  ie: 1688 Glorious Revolution, French Revolution, the US Bill of Rights (to protect against tyranny of British monarchy).  People in virtually all developing countries don't have the rights we have because they're controlled by despot leaders.  Luckily western countries rebelled against our tyrant leaders long ago & put in checks against their power in the form of rights.
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.

Offline MH

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2017, 09:32:17 am »
The utility of this right isn't relevant.  As with all rights, we should be free to do whatever the heck we want as a base starting point, and our actions should be limited by law when what we do infringes on the rights of others.

Ok, so you are saying I don't have a right to talk about this ?  I feel like it's more relevant than whether free expression feels good or not, as the latter point is just obvious and pedestrian.

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The entire point & history of all human rights is to protect people from abuses of power by government.

That's an 18th century view of 'history' I guess.  Government, however you define it, is about group leadership making decisions.  Discussion of human rights came long after silt-dredging tribes in Mesopotamia evolved into city states but ok.

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There's a long history going back millennia even in the West (ie: monarchies) of governments abusing their power, shutting people up they want to silence (like people criticizing the government), throwing people in jail without charge or trial, and generally doing whatever authoritarian stuff they want.

Ok, and you are telling me this why ?  Is it relevant or is this a venting ?

I don't dispute the value of being able to express myself but understanding the utility of it is key to modifying and applying these rights, evolving them over time.   

Offline kimmy

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2019, 12:02:52 pm »
"Your Ward News" lands James Sears in jail for a year on charges of promotion of hatred against an identifiable group.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/pa7bw7/james-sears-editor-of-canadas-most-racist-paper-ygets-year-in-prison-for-promoting-hate-your-ward-news

 -k
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Offline MH

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2019, 01:33:28 pm »
"Your Ward News" lands James Sears in jail for a year on charges of promotion of hatred against an identifiable group.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/pa7bw7/james-sears-editor-of-canadas-most-racist-paper-ygets-year-in-prison-for-promoting-hate-your-ward-news

 -k

Actual hate crime.... that's some ground zero stupidity there....

Offline Granny

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Re: "Your Ward" News - Hate Speech or Free Expression?
« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2019, 06:10:18 pm »
Actual hate crime.... that's some ground zero stupidity there....
Ya.
Reading through the thread, I see people referring to "hate speech laws", but we don't actually have any such laws.
The relevant laws are Publicly Inciting or Wilfully Promoting hatred (as in these convictions) against an identifiable group of people.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-319.html

These charges are not flung about lightly, but require substantial investigation and must be approved by the Attorney General.
I believe I saw data indicating that just over 100 Section 319 charges were laid across Canada in 2018, mostly 'Wilfull promotion' as that generally refers to written or online material. 'Public Incitement' (public speeches, rallies, etc) is a little more difficult to investigate.

Threats, physical assaults, etc. are crimes in themselves, but where racial, anti-gay, etc hatred is a motivating factor, a hate crime designation can be added and leads to more severe sentencing.

So we have laws against Incitement and Promotion of hatred, and other crimes with a hate component as an exacerbating factor.