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American Politics / Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Last post by wilber on Today at 12:41:47 pm »
Itís not...   trying to get to representation by population as closely as possible (Canada) is not the same principle as equal representation regardless of population (USA).

The Senate not done by population, it is done by region. The country is divided into four regions, the four western provinces, Quebec, Ontario and the Atlantic provinces. Each region gets the same number of  senators so as the west has been growing faster than Quebec or the Atlantic provinces, the disparity gets greater.
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American Politics / Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Last post by the_squid on Today at 12:32:16 pm »
It's the same principal. It's a necessity in large countries with disparate populations otherwise some regions will effectively have no representation. Some votes will always be worth more than others.

Itís not...   trying to get to representation by population as closely as possible (Canada) is not the same principle as equal representation regardless of population (USA).
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American Politics / Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Last post by wilber on Today at 12:28:23 pm »
Wyoming has 290,000 people per senator.

California has 20 Million people per senator.

Thatís a 69 fold difference.

Your  Canadian example is 3 fold.

Címon Wilber...   itís not even close to the same.

It's the same principal. It's a necessity in large countries with disparate populations otherwise some regions will effectively have no representation. Some votes will always be worth more than others.
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American Politics / Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Last post by JMT on Today at 11:20:30 am »
Isn't Canada supposed to be "one person one vote" in the House of Commons?

It's supposed to be, but that isn't practically possible. You need to have at least one seat per region, meaning that the territories are overrepresented no matter what. There are also a few clauses that amend the formula, and some of them are constitutional documents. That's why PEI will never have less than 4 MPs as long as they have 4 senators.
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General Discussion / Re: Gender Culture
« Last post by Black Dog on Today at 10:58:28 am »
If some modest number of trans women can "stealth" their way through women's spaces, that's one thing. Few male people (especially those who aren't highly dedicated) are going to be able to do that. Creepy Joe down the street isn't going to be able to pull off a Blaire White no matter how much lipstick he buys.  It's still a women's space even if Blaire White was born male.

But if the bar gets set so low that any male can enter without objection, then there isn't actually any such thing as women's spaces anymore.  That's a negative for women.

And how do you police that? What it comes down to is you think someone who looks insufficiently feminine should be denied access to women's spaces (somehow, since the enforcement mechanism isn't exactly clear). So less an objection to trans people per se as trans people not blessed with the ability to pass (oh and also butch lesbians. Sorry KD Lang, you're SOL.)

Butch lesbian opens up about ‘increasing harassment’ she faces when she uses public toilets


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You said TERFs only care about trans stuff, I told you they don't. Now you say that TERFs only care about unimportant stuff and Tumblr posts, and that isn't true either. At this point it's starting to feel like arguing with an 8 year old.

No I stand by the fact that TERFS in the main care about trans stuff above all else: that's why they're TERFS. The fact they have other socially conservative views doesn't make your point any stronger. Also the fact that most of the stuff you listed is exactly as I described doesn't make TERFs look any less like weird grievance collectors obsessed with their own victimhood.

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You asked why women don't complain about creeps.  Were you suggesting they file these complaints while they're in the shower with creeps? Obviously she gets herself out of that situation as quickly and safely as possible.  We were talking about what she does AFTER that.

And once her immediate safety is taken care of, she has to decide what to do next.  And yeah: between engaging in a likely futile and potentially dangerous attempt to "help weed out creeps" or taking her business elsewhere, it's an easy choice.

What the **** are you even talking about? I never suggested they take immediate action, but if someone is making unwanted sexual advances or engaging in behaviour that makes one feel unsafe, then that person should be reported as soon as possible. But it's weird you think it's better to discriminate against any non creep than just talk to the manager.

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My recollection is that the Body Blitz spa changed their policy to allow trans women in, and also to change their clothing-optional policy to a bottoms mandatory policy.

The exact same battle was fought this past week in Australia at the McIver Ladies Baths, soon to be the McIver Are Dongs Welcome Baths.

That sounds like a solution that works for everyone but i'm sure you have a problem with that too.

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We discriminate against men too. Most men aren't creeps or predators, but we don't let men into women's spaces either.  Most men seem to understand that this discrimination is for women's benefit and don't take it as a personal slight.

Yes because most men aren't transwomen? The clear thread running through all of your TERF arguments is that you think cis women are a class deserving of greater protections than transwomen, who are, to you, simply men in dresses not entitled to any particular consideration.

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The World / Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Last post by Boges on Today at 08:35:12 am »
It seems they're retooling the plant to increase the ability to deliver vaccines in Q2. It might mean that after this delay, we're able to get our allotment faster.

Yeah, it's a short-term disruption to allow for more capacity going forward.

Ultimately it's a good thing.

I don't think we'll see meaningful Vaccination numbers until the J&J vaccine hits the market.
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American Politics / Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Last post by SuperColinBlow on Today at 03:37:30 am »
Wyoming has 290,000 people per senator.

California has 20 Million people per senator.

Thatís a 69 fold difference.

Your  Canadian example is 3 fold.

Címon Wilber...   itís not even close to the same.

Isn't Canada supposed to be "one person one vote" in the House of Commons?
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General Discussion / Re: Gender Culture
« Last post by kimmy on Today at 02:46:03 am »
How someone looks has no bearing on whether they pose a safety risk or not? You're conflating "discomfort with someone who doesn't look feminine enough" with a threat to safety.

When you say " I's not whether women have the right to know they're in the presence of a trans individual they can't detect, it's whether they have the right to object when some obviously male person wanders in" you're acknowledging that the issue is one of perception based on looks and not the probability of harm.

If some modest number of trans women can "stealth" their way through women's spaces, that's one thing. Few male people (especially those who aren't highly dedicated) are going to be able to do that. Creepy Joe down the street isn't going to be able to pull off a Blaire White no matter how much lipstick he buys.  It's still a women's space even if Blaire White was born male.

But if the bar gets set so low that any male can enter without objection, then there isn't actually any such thing as women's spaces anymore.  That's a negative for women.

When 99.9% of this stuff has no bearing or impact on the world at large, it's impossible to see terfs as anything buts an obsessive subculture with a victim fetish, the kind of people who elevate Tumblr posts into the next great existential threat to civilization. But hey at least they offer community, but then so does QAnon.

You said TERFs only care about trans stuff, I told you they don't. Now you say that TERFs only care about unimportant stuff and Tumblr posts, and that isn't true either. At this point it's starting to feel like arguing with an 8 year old.

If you're more concerned about being called transphobic than you are about your personal safety, you're probablynot all that concerned about your safety.

You asked why women don't complain about creeps.  Were you suggesting they file these complaints while they're in the shower with creeps?  Obviously she gets herself out of that situation as quickly and safely as possible.  We were talking about what she does AFTER that.

And once her immediate safety is taken care of, she has to decide what to do next.  And yeah: between engaging in a likely futile and potentially dangerous attempt to "help weed out creeps" or taking her business elsewhere, it's an easy choice.

I didn't see anything indicating they changed their policy on genitals so it doesn't seem like the trans witch hunters are very effective.

My recollection is that the Body Blitz spa changed their policy to allow trans women in, and also to change their clothing-optional policy to a bottoms mandatory policy.

The exact same battle was fought this past week in Australia at the McIver Ladies Baths, soon to be the McIver Are Dongs Welcome Baths.

And because of that, your solution is to discriminate against all trans people, so you can see the problem

We discriminate against men too. Most men aren't creeps or predators, but we don't let men into women's spaces either.  Most men seem to understand that this discrimination is for women's benefit and don't take it as a personal slight.

 -k
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General Discussion / Re: Gender Culture
« Last post by kimmy on Today at 02:10:52 am »
BD asked a good question and you didn't really address it in this response.

Genuinely curious here, are you concerned about the 'safety' or is it merely about being 'uncomfortable' with transwomen in the bathrooms?

Both.

I feel that if the bar to entry to women's spaces is set so low that any male can wander in, then the worst kinds of men will exploit that. And I disagree with the notion that unless a physical assault occurs, no harm has been done.  Women have the right to privacy and dignity.

As for "uncomfortable", I don't want washrooms and showers and changing rooms to be added to the list of places where women need to be wary of men. That list is too long already.  I don't like the advice that "women will just have to get over our discomfort" because there's good reasons for being uncomfortable and because I don't like that the emotional labor for all of these changes always falls on women.


Personally,  if I wander into the women's washroom and there's a male there, I'm not going to confront him, but I'm also not going to get in a stall while he's there.  I'll wash my hands, fix my hair, look for the eyelash in my eye, check my text messages, until he leaves. If he hasn't left by the time I've done a couple of those things, then I'm leaving because it's starting to look like he's just hanging around.  If I wander into the showers or the changing room and there's a male there, I'm walking right past. I'll go home with my wet swimsuit under my clothes if I have to.


 -k
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General Discussion / Re: The non-Tim Tebow NFL thread!
« Last post by kimmy on Today at 01:36:55 am »
If that was the last game of Drew Brees' career, it was a sour ending. Probably among the worst games of his career.  That was the only game I saw this weekend, and it was pretty disappointing.  I think the Packers will beat the Bucs next weekend. The Bucs defense looked good, but Aaron Rodgers isn't going to make their job easy the way Brees did yesterday.

The Bills are on fire! Holding any team to 3 points is an accomplishment... holding the Ravens to 3 points is a huge achievement. The Bills could be going to the Superbowl, especially if Patrick Mahomes has a concussion.  I heard one of the commentators during the Saints game say "what we've seen when players get hit like that is that they don't look good the week after."

 -k
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