Canadian Politics Today

Beyond Canada => American Politics => Topic started by: MH on August 11, 2020, 03:31:01 pm


Title: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on August 11, 2020, 03:31:01 pm
Do you have a ticket to the show ?  The Democrats have a ticket... and it's Ms. Harris

https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnbcsnl%2Fstatus%2F1178161674316079104&widget=Tweet
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on August 11, 2020, 03:31:22 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFmrKRTXoAAQaeV?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on August 12, 2020, 07:49:59 am
She's a very safe choice, which is wise considering the stakes of this election.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on August 13, 2020, 11:22:55 am
Watching him speak yesterday should really put to doubt any conspiracy garbage that he has dementia.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on August 13, 2020, 11:33:22 am
Watching him speak yesterday should really put to doubt any conspiracy garbage that he has dementia.

Wanna bet?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on August 13, 2020, 12:31:43 pm
Watching him speak yesterday should really put to doubt any conspiracy garbage that he has dementia.

I think that as you age, you have more moments where your brain is slower than other times.  You can pick those out and isolate them and make a candidate look bad.

But the debate will answer that. 

But it will only answer that for people who haven't injected the MAGA disinfectant (better metaphor than drinking Kool Aid)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 13, 2020, 04:16:10 pm
She's a very safe choice, which is wise considering the stakes of this election.

Safe??   A woman whoís black is not a safe choice in America.  Sure, the progressives and BLM folks will like it and there wonít be criticism from those quarters, but itís not like you can lose those voters to Trump. 

The VP choice is going to be fine in most states.  In some, the Dems will lose even worse because of it.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 13, 2020, 05:36:02 pm
Sure, the progressives and BLM folks will like it and there wonít be criticism from those quarters, but itís not like you can lose those voters to Trump. 


I think not picking a woman of color would actually cost him votes.  He needs black voters to come out.  Not doing so cost them 2016.

Plus, he was under so much pressure to pick a woman of colour.  Klobuchar dropped out for that reason putting even more pressure on him, intentionally or not.

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on August 13, 2020, 09:08:58 pm
Safe??   A woman whoís black is not a safe choice in America.  Sure, the progressives and BLM folks will like it

Wanna bet?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 14, 2020, 04:09:12 pm
New birtherism has hit the airwaves....  just as racist and bigoted as ever though....
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on August 21, 2020, 08:50:48 am
That speech last night was amazing.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 21, 2020, 11:22:02 am
Wanna bet?

Turns out being a prosecutor doesnít appeal to some of the progressives.  But theyíre on the very fringe...  itís not any sort of mainstream view. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 21, 2020, 11:34:50 am
That speech last night was amazing.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4901075/joe-biden-accepts-democratic-party-nomination-president

Even the Fox commentators are saying he crushed it.

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 21, 2020, 11:48:22 am
He was no Obama...   but the bar is set so, so low that anything other than drooling idiocy looks good.

I like his pocket square...   straight out of Mad Men!  Style points!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 21, 2020, 11:56:30 am
Safe??   A woman whoís black is not a safe choice in America.  Sure, the progressives and BLM folks will like it and there wonít be criticism from those quarters, but itís not like you can lose those voters to Trump. 

The VP choice is going to be fine in most states.  In some, the Dems will lose even worse because of it.

I doubt that anybody who was planning to vote for Biden would change their mind because he picked Harris.

Anybody who won't vote for a black VP or a woman VP or a black woman VP was probably never going to vote Democrat anyway.

Anybody who won't vote for a VP known as a tough prosecutor probably already lost interest in voting Democrat when Biden won the nomination.

Harris is a choice that won't alienate anybody who was going to vote Democrat, and she is a choice that will energize some who might have been unexcited about voting for Biden.

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 21, 2020, 12:01:48 pm
KAMALA HARRIS DEAD?! (https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/10/us/wwe-kamala-james-harris-death/index.html)

Quote
Former WWE wrestler James 'Kamala' Harris has died at age 70, according to a news release from the wrestling company.

In a career that spanned more than two decades, Harris battled many of wrestling's superstars, including Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker and Andre the Giant, according to the release. "He terrorized opponents and thrilled audiences in Mid-South, World Class Championship Wrestling, WCW and WWE until 2006," the WWE said. His character, Kamala, was promoted as a 6-foot-7, 350-pound "Ugandan Giant."

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 21, 2020, 12:02:43 pm
KAMALA HARRIS DEAD?! (https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/10/us/wwe-kamala-james-harris-death/index.html)

 -k

Innapropes....


(https://media3.giphy.com/media/bDkXVbAtk0p20/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 21, 2020, 01:39:09 pm
He was no Obama...   but the bar is set so, so low that anything other than drooling idiocy looks good.

I like his pocket square...   straight out of Mad Men!  Style points!

This wasn't just a good speech compared to the other guy.  This was a good speech, period.


edit to add: but, the Republicans have been pushing this "Sleepy Joe has dementia" theme so hard that it did become very easy for him to exceed expectations, especially the expectations they set for their supporters.  One comment I read this morning is that setting a low bar for your opponent is a dumb strategy.


 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on August 21, 2020, 03:54:44 pm
This wasn't just a good speech compared to the other guy.  This was a good speech, period.


edit to add: but, the Republicans have been pushing this "Sleepy Joe has dementia" theme so hard that it did become very easy for him to exceed expectations, especially the expectations they set for their supporters.  One comment I read this morning is that setting a low bar for your opponent is a dumb strategy.


 -k

I had tingles going down my spine. It went beyond good. He was the president during that speech.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 21, 2020, 05:06:00 pm
He doesn't have the oratory gift that Barack and Michelle Obama have.  But the content of the speech and the sincerity with which it was delivered were as good as anything I have seen in a very long time, and I think it has flipped me from being "I hope he wins because he's better than that other guy" to "I hope he wins because I think he will be really good."

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on August 21, 2020, 06:07:56 pm
Really hope he can be as articulate in the debates
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on August 21, 2020, 06:40:13 pm
Really hope he can be as articulate in the debates

He'll be on the stage with a man who is bragging that he passed the test they give to people to see if they need to put into a care home.

Being on state with Trump will make Biden look brilliant by comparison.

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on August 21, 2020, 07:04:23 pm
He'll be on the stage with a man who is bragging that he passed the test they give to people to see if they need to put into a care home.

Being on state with Trump will make Biden look brilliant by comparison.

 -k

Of course but it doesn't seem to matter how bad Trump is.
On the other hand, setting such a low bar for Biden is probably not a good strategy for Trump. Biden just has to be better than the Republicans are painting him in order to look good.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on August 21, 2020, 10:59:05 pm
Of course but it doesn't seem to matter how bad Trump is.
On the other hand, setting such a low bar for Biden is probably not a good strategy for Trump. Biden just has to be better than the Republicans are painting him in order to look good.

Well I donít know about that anymore. According to most polls, Trump is losing badly.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on August 22, 2020, 12:07:36 pm
Mark Hamill - of course!

(https://i.imgur.com/NFPaRxN.png)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on August 22, 2020, 08:09:29 pm
Well I donít know about that anymore. According to most polls, Trump is losing badly.

Was I meant was, it doesn't matter how awful Trump behaves, he can't make it worse. His faithful won't care.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on August 29, 2020, 11:08:15 pm
Well I donít know about that anymore. According to most polls, Trump is losing badly.


Biden will get more votes and more electoral college votes, without a doubt.  But the real question is whether the votes will be counted fairly and if so, will Trump accept the results. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on September 03, 2020, 03:11:09 pm
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-biden-gets-good-polls-in-arizona-and-wisconsin-and-a-bad-one-in-pennsylvania/

Swing state report... a 'bad one' in Penn means he's just trouncing Trump not decimating him.

Other two states are good...
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 03, 2020, 03:13:44 pm
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-biden-gets-good-polls-in-arizona-and-wisconsin-and-a-bad-one-in-pennsylvania/

Swing state report... a 'bad one' in Penn means he's just trouncing Trump not decimating him.

Other two states are good...

You call 49% to 45% ďtrouncingĒ?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on September 03, 2020, 03:27:37 pm
You call 49% to 45% ďtrouncingĒ?

OOPS.  I misread 'likelihood of winning' as polling I think.

Yeah, no.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on September 05, 2020, 02:28:22 pm
Joe Biden came out fighting on Friday.  First he blasted Trump for calling the troops "suckers". 

And then Biden said that Q-Anon followers are an embarrassment to America and need mental health help.  uh-oh, Joe has lost the deranged delusional lunatic vote.  :-[

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: ?Impact on September 15, 2020, 10:06:25 pm
uh-oh, Joe has lost the deranged delusional lunatic vote.  :-[

Bad move, that is the largest voting block in America.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 26, 2020, 11:41:18 pm
Ron Burgundy err Joe Biden, will day whateverís on the teleprompter!

https://youtu.be/73KDtznNrC8
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on September 27, 2020, 02:00:36 am
Ron Burgundy err Joe Biden, will day whateverís on the teleprompter!

member Shady, are you saying you've never seen/heard teleprompter Trump?  ;D

of course, Trump/campaign has gone well beyond teleprompter "gafs" in their attempts to claim Biden is suffering from dementia! That reached its heights (relatively) recently when Trump kept boasting about acing the MoCA Montreal - Cognitive Assessment test - such hilarity! Trump's latest boast about his 'very hard' cognitive test instantly became a bleakly funny meme (https://mashable.com/article/trump-interview-person-woman-man-camera-tv-memes/)

Quote
Trump has been bragging repeatedly that he "aced" it, which is a bit like boasting that you made yourself a PB&J without cutting off your thumb: Technically, it's a good thing, but it's also a very, very low bar to clear.

Fox News' Chris Wallace on Sunday asked the president about the test, noting that it's not supposed to be hard at all, and Trump insisted that it was. As the fallout from that surreal interview continued into Wednesday, Trump went back on Fox to keep repeating the saddest flex of all time.

wait, what? Trump dementia? Say it ain't so, member Shady - say it ain't so!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5axgsXtwHMc
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 27, 2020, 04:43:49 pm
Biden calls troops stupid bastards.

https://youtu.be/19e_s4vO3C4
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2020, 04:47:39 pm
Biden calls troops stupid bastards.

https://youtu.be/19e_s4vO3C4

Trump says I don't give a **** about the will of the people. WTF side are you on?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 27, 2020, 04:55:37 pm
Trump says I don't give a **** about the will of the people. WTF side are you on?
Iím not sure what youíre talking about.  But what kind of **** calls the troops stupid bastards and to clap for him?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2020, 05:05:19 pm
Iím not sure what youíre talking about.  But what kind of **** calls the troops stupid bastards and to clap for him?

Donny is lying through his assholl right now as I type about what taxes he has paid and cheated over the years. Trump is a lying **** and anybody who supports him must be essentially retarded if they fail to see that. I'm so happy not to be an American with this prick/laughing **** in the highest office. How do you tell if donny is lying? his lips are moving. If you don't get that then I have some land to sell ya.
 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on September 27, 2020, 05:25:47 pm
Ron Burgundy err Joe Biden, will day whateverís on the teleprompter!

https://youtu.be/73KDtznNrC8

Joe should stop making jokes, dimwit Trump supporters are too dim to understand them.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2020, 05:45:12 pm
Joe should stop making jokes, dimwit Trump supporters are too dim to understand them.

Maybe those dim wits will wake up a bit as they doll out their taxes whilst their buddy seems able to hide from paying his.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 27, 2020, 06:29:08 pm
Donny is lying through his assholl right now as I type about what taxes he has paid and cheated over the years. Trump is a lying **** and anybody who supports him must be essentially retarded if they fail to see that. I'm so happy not to be an American with this prick/laughing **** in the highest office. How do you tell if donny is lying? his lips are moving. If you don't get that then I have some land to sell ya.
If you think Trump is a bad liar, just wait until you read about Joe Bidenís history!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 27, 2020, 06:30:54 pm
Joe should stop making jokes, dimwit Trump supporters are too dim to understand them.
Lol, yes he was just joking.  That must be it!  All of his stuttering nonsensical speeches are just jokes.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on September 27, 2020, 07:07:25 pm
Lol, yes he was just joking.  That must be it!  All of his stuttering nonsensical speeches are just jokes.

He laughed as he said it, so yes he was joking. Trumptards are too dim to pick up on something like that..
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 27, 2020, 07:15:12 pm
He laughed as he said it, so yes he was joking. Trumptards are too dim to pick up on something like that..

hmmm...  Yes...  Shady really is that fkn stupid.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 27, 2020, 07:39:35 pm
He laughed as he said it, so yes he was joking. Trumptards are too dim to pick up on something like that..
No he wasnít joking.  Nice try though!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 27, 2020, 07:41:09 pm
More Biden jokes!

https://youtu.be/_lr_lhMh9-Q
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 27, 2020, 07:42:50 pm
You guys can hate Trump.  But Joe Biden is not well.  Stop pretending.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on September 27, 2020, 07:47:21 pm
No he wasnít joking.  Nice try though!
Yes he was, I watched it. I'm old and I sometimes joke about being around 100 years ago and being older than dirt. Older people do that.

Trump doesn't because he is a narcissist.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 27, 2020, 07:54:35 pm
Yes he was, I watched it. I'm old and I sometimes joke about being around 100 years ago and being older than dirt. Older people do that.

Trump doesn't because he is a narcissist.
Right, and he came up with 180 years off the top of his head huh?  You believe what you want.  Biden is as big of a narcissist as there is.  His catch phrase is ďIím the guy that did...Ē and he usually lists off someone elseís achievement.

https://youtu.be/rHri9pmJFwA
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 27, 2020, 07:56:00 pm
Even former Obama advisors are noticing his decline.

https://youtu.be/--dRT4eeQW0
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2020, 09:31:56 pm
Right, and he came up with 180 years off the top of his head huh?  You believe what you want.  Biden is as big of a narcissist as there is.  His catch phrase is ďIím the guy that did...Ē and he usually lists off someone elseís achievement.

https://youtu.be/rHri9pmJFwA

You're a faux news fan. No surprise there. But kissing tucker carlsons arse, OMG.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 28, 2020, 12:42:50 pm
You're a faux news fan. No surprise there. But kissing tucker carlsons arse, OMG.
And how about CNN?  Btw, what exactly is Biden doing calling troops stupid bastards and insisting they clap for him?  Do you know what you'd be saying if Trump did that?  Of course you do.  But you're too busy kissing Biden's arse.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2020, 02:19:52 pm
And how about CNN?  Btw, what exactly is Biden doing calling troops stupid bastards and insisting they clap for him?  Do you know what you'd be saying if Trump did that?  Of course you do.  But you're too busy kissing Biden's arse.

Hey ever heard of Roger Ailes? He's the guy who founded your so called news channel. And as he did he said it was not a news channel but an entertainment channel. You should have listened and not been so led astray.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 28, 2020, 03:51:03 pm
Deflect, deflect, deflect.   Roger has nothing to do with Joe Biden's mental decline.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2020, 04:12:37 pm
Deflect, deflect, deflect.   Roger has nothing to do with Joe Biden's mental decline.

Speaking of mental decline, are you noticing how trump can't even seem to keep track of his own lies day to day? And ofr course now as we see he has evaded taxes and owes huge debts, his chances of reelection fade even more. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on September 28, 2020, 05:14:49 pm
And how about CNN?  Btw, what exactly is Biden doing calling troops stupid bastards and insisting they clap for him?  Do you know what you'd be saying if Trump did that?  Of course you do.  But you're too busy kissing Biden's arse.

I love how all your right wing sources cut that video off right after Biden makes the comment without recording the troops reaction. My guess it is because they did laugh and clap. Feel free to show me I was wrong.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 28, 2020, 05:18:29 pm
I love how all your right wing sources cut that video off right after Biden makes the comment without recording the troops reaction. My guess it is because they did laugh and clap. Feel free to show me I was wrong.

What?  You mean Troll-Shady would come on here and tell boldfaced lies???  Now way.....
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2020, 06:43:51 pm
And how about CNN?  Btw, what exactly is Biden doing calling troops stupid bastards and insisting they clap for him?  Do you know what you'd be saying if Trump did that?  Of course you do.  But you're too busy kissing Biden's arse.

Perhaps you could explain trump calling soldiers who have died in service "losers and suckers"
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on September 28, 2020, 06:55:11 pm
And how about CNN?  Btw, what exactly is Biden doing calling troops stupid bastards and insisting they clap for him?  Do you know what you'd be saying if Trump did that?  Of course you do.  But you're too busy kissing Biden's arse.

Trump would never have the guts to say that to someoneís face. He only does it amongst his faithful or on Twitter.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 28, 2020, 07:40:44 pm
Joe Biden caught lying again, saying he attended an historically black college.  He got his start there!  Nope, grandpa had another brain freeze.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on September 28, 2020, 08:13:10 pm
Joe Biden caught lying again, saying he attended an historically black college.  He got his start there!  Nope, grandpa had another brain freeze.

I notice you have ignored the "losers and suckers" comment I mentioned. Are you also disrespectful of soldiers who died in service to their country? Typical trump fan stance I guess.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on September 28, 2020, 08:31:30 pm
Caught lying because, a year ago, there was confusion over whether he was talking about Delaware State, where he received an honorary degree, and his alma mater the University of Delaware?
This week, Trump denied the NYT had his tax returns, calling it fake news, and subsequently said they received his tax returns illegally. That would be a worse lie, and that's just one of many, and that's just this week, and it's only Monday.
You lose.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 29, 2020, 04:55:54 pm
Sleepy Joe Biden is asking for a break every 30 minutes of the debate!  Lol.

https://thepostmillennial.com/trump-campaign-asks-for-inspections-for-electronic-devices-or-transmitters-amid-tuesday-nights-debate?fbclid=IwAR3pW1Y8b8taromT59_WXVeQLnfasT8-W_gvwxACQwVAw10GvuYYHMq39VU
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on September 29, 2020, 05:02:54 pm
Sleepy Joe Biden is asking for a break every 30 minutes of the debate!  Lol.

https://thepostmillennial.com/trump-campaign-asks-for-inspections-for-electronic-devices-or-transmitters-amid-tuesday-nights-debate?fbclid=IwAR3pW1Y8b8taromT59_WXVeQLnfasT8-W_gvwxACQwVAw10GvuYYHMq39VU

I see you're childish enough to buy into the silly **** about naming, such as "sleepy joe" etc. Nuff said.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 29, 2020, 05:05:04 pm
I see you're childish enough to buy into the silly **** about naming, such as "sleepy joe" etc. Nuff said.
Right, because youíve never called Trump any names huh?  Hypocrite much?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 29, 2020, 05:05:59 pm
NOW heís gonna start solving problems!

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on September 29, 2020, 05:10:36 pm
Right, because youíve never called Trump any names huh?  Hypocrite much?

I choose not to fall into that low level of childishness. It seems your hero does though. Maybe that's why you like him.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on September 29, 2020, 05:23:13 pm
Right, because youíve never called Trump any names huh?  Hypocrite much?

Trump started it the first day when he called Mexicans murderers and rapists and he hasnít let up since. He is the last guy you should be defending when it comes to name calling.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on September 29, 2020, 06:39:40 pm
I choose not to fall into that low level of childishness. It seems your hero does though. Maybe that's why you like him.
But you call him names all the time.  Yet you get a case of the vapours over me saying sleepy joe?  Come on man.  Youíre ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on September 29, 2020, 11:03:54 pm
Biden released his 2019 tax returns. He paid $300K in income taxes. 37.1% on an income of $944K
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on September 30, 2020, 07:28:32 am
As expected, Biden came across as reasonable and up to the job, and a way better choice than the orang-utan throwing **** and telling the white supremacist militias to stand by for after the election when he inevitably tries to stay on after being humiliated and voted out.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 02, 2020, 06:49:06 pm
Does Biden think that Antifa is a hoax?  Also, why wonít the senile old man answer as to whether heíll pack the court?  Whatís he hiding?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 02, 2020, 06:50:15 pm
As expected, Biden came across as reasonable and up to the job, and a way better choice than the orang-utan throwing **** and telling the white supremacist militias to stand by for after the election when he inevitably tries to stay on after being humiliated and voted out.
A more reasonable person with absolute shitty policies isnít an upgrade.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on October 02, 2020, 07:03:19 pm
A more reasonable person with absolute shitty policies isnít an upgrade.

For sure, better than a truly shitty person with shitty policies.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 02, 2020, 11:23:33 pm
Does Biden think that Antifa is a hoax?

from the debate:

Quote
Biden: His own FBI director {Chris Wray} saidÖ Antifa is an idea not an organization

Trump: Well you know what, heís wrong

member Shady, who are the leaders of your boogeyman Antifa... and where are they located?  ;D
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 05, 2020, 09:25:37 pm
NOW heís gonna start solving problems!

(Image showing how long Biden was a senator and Vice President)
Well, first of all, while senators have a certain amount of power, an individual senator does not have enough authority to 'fix' anything on his own. (Especially since the Republicans held a majority for at least some of the time he was a Senator.)

Of course, as senator, he: pushed for background checks on firearm purchases, helped set up a domestic violence help line, brought in legislation to improve education especially for low income students, had a role in NATO enlargement, etc. Sounds to me like he's done at least some good. (Compared to Stubby McBonespurs, who's history of public service involves a charitable foundation that he had to shut down because of fraud, a university that had to be shut down because of fraud, and a series of business practices and bankruptcies that have ended up harming hundreds of other people.)

As for his time as VP.... again, he didn't exactly have the same authority as Obama, but if you want to look at the record of the administration, they managed to guide the nation through a recession that started before they came to power (i.e. wasn't their fault) and provided health care to millions of Americans.

Sounds to me like that's a pretty good record for a political candidate.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 05, 2020, 09:39:57 pm
Re: Calling Biden "sleepy joe"...
But you call him names all the time.  Yet you get a case of the vapours over me saying sleepy joe?  Come on man.  Youíre ridiculous.
There are a couple of issues here...

First of all, the 'sleepy joe' nick name originated from Trump. There is a difference between an average person or internet poster using a name and the president. And you should not dignify Trump's actions by using his rhetoric.

Secondly, it is just, well, wrong. I like to call Trump "Stubby McBonespurs", because there is at least some truth associated with that name... descriptions of Trump's endowment, and his Vietnam military history. But "sleepy joe"? Biden does lead an active life (regular exercise, such as riding a bike, regular media appearances), and despite claims from various members of the MAGAchuds, doesn't seem to exhibit any significant mental decline, etc.. (While they may play up various mistakes/gaffs, overall he makes far less than Trump does.) "sleepy joe" just doesn't really fit with the way he actually is.

If you're going to use a nick name against Biden, try to come up with something on your own, that at least provides some real description that fits Biden (and that doesn't apply just as much to Trump). Maybe make fun of the dumb catch phrases he used in his campaign.... "Build back better" and "no malarcky".
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 07, 2020, 02:45:01 am
The problem with the Republicans' attacks on Joe is that any negative they throw at Biden, the same can be said of Trump but 10x worse. And I have a hunch that there's precious few undecideds left, and that most voters have already decided, anyway.  Pushing a narrative like "Sleepy Joe is getting forgetful" isn't going to convince people to vote for the "Man Woman Person Camera TV" guy at this point.

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 07, 2020, 12:54:10 pm
The problem with the Republicans' attacks on Joe is that any negative they throw at Biden, the same can be said of Trump but 10x worse. And I have a hunch that there's precious few undecideds left, and that most voters have already decided, anyway.  Pushing a narrative like "Sleepy Joe is getting forgetful" isn't going to convince people to vote for the "Man Woman Person Camera TV" guy at this point.

 -k
Right on kimmy! There's no use Trump's side trying to demean Biden now after the first debate. Biden destroyed Trump and made it pretty clear that we saw the best that Trump had to offer. He's quite incapable of better.

And that begs the question on whether or not Trump really does want a second debate. Or more to the point, do his handlers want him to be clobbered again?

So when does the big argument start in which Biden will be asking for a televised debate from safe locations? And then no agreement reached and Biden blamed for refusing to debate?

Sometimes the bullsh-t just becomes too obvious.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 08, 2020, 02:02:01 pm
The problem with the Republicans' attacks on Joe is that any negative they throw at Biden, the same can be said of Trump but 10x worse. And I have a hunch that there's precious few undecideds left, and that most voters have already decided, anyway.  Pushing a narrative like "Sleepy Joe is getting forgetful" isn't going to convince people to vote for the "Man Woman Person Camera TV" guy at this point.
This especially seems to be the case with senior voters.

Seniors used to be a very important demographic for the republicans... they tended to lean conservative, AND they were very reliable voters (i.e. more likely to vote than younger people.) But Biden seems to be taking a lot of those votes away from Trump. And when Trump attacks Biden with allegations of being senile, it seems a lot of seniors are taking it personally.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/politics/trump-senior-vote/index.html
In the final average of registered-voter polls, Trump led Clinton by 5 points among seniors. His advantage was 6 points among likely voters. These polls are suggesting something along the lines of 25- to 30-point shifts in Biden's direction.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 09, 2020, 02:34:05 am
Right now the polls seem to indicate Biden is approaching landslide territory.  Of course, at the same time 4 years ago we thought the same thing. And who knows what might happen in the next 4 weeks.  But as it stands, states that are typically swing states are looking very blue, and many states that are usually red are looking like swing states.

I was also looking at senate races today.  Right now the senate is 53-47 for the Republicans, so the Democrats need to flip minimum 3 seats.  The Republicans are almost certain to win back the Democrats' Alabama senate seat, and the Democrats appear almost certain to take the Republicans' Arizona senate seat, so that's a draw. 

But there are a number of other senate seats that are seen as possible gains for the Democrats, while few prospects for Republicans gaining seats. Polling shows the Democrats have strong chances in Maine, Colorado, and North Carolina. They are also very close in Montana, South Carolina, and Iowa. The Republicans have a competitive race in Michigan, but (aside from Alabama) that appears to be their only chance of gaining a seat.

Right now 538 has the Democrats as a slight favorite to regain control of the senate.

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on October 09, 2020, 08:16:20 am
Right now the polls seem to indicate Biden is approaching landslide territory.  Of course, at the same time 4 years ago we thought the same thing. And who knows what might happen in the next 4 weeks.  But as it stands, states that are typically swing states are looking very blue, and many states that are usually red are looking like swing states.

1) Biden is ahead of where Hillary was
2) There were high undecideds in swing states that were close, not the case now
3) It was still a 30% chance for Trump at that time, not 100%.  He's at 15% today so - yes - he could still win.

 

 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 09, 2020, 09:20:53 am
Quote
Right now the polls seem to indicate Biden is approaching landslide territory.  Of course, at the same time 4 years ago we thought the same thing. And who knows what might happen in the next 4 weeks.  But as it stands, states that are typically swing states are looking very blue, and many states that are usually red are looking like swing states.
1) Biden is ahead of where Hillary was
2) There were high undecideds in swing states that were close, not the case now
Perhaps more importantly, Biden's lead seems to be extremely stable... with an average polling lead of between 4% and ~10%. Regardless of what happens, that doesn't seem to change... Trump does poorly on the debates, little change. Trump catches Covid, little change.

Compare that to 2016, where Hillary sometimes had a very large lead on Trump, but there was a lot more flux over the campaign, with her lead occasionally dropping to the point where her and Trump were in a virtual tie.
Quote
3) It was still a 30% chance for Trump at that time, not 100%.  He's at 15% today so - yes - he could still win.
That seems to be one of the problems... people think "Trump was supposed to lose in 2016 but won... polling is flawed!". But a 30% (heck even a 15% chance) does not mean no chance. Its no different than tossing a dice, and being surprised that it happens to come up with a 6...

Granted, there are some things that are... problematic. Republican efforts to suppress the vote for example. And the electoral college gives an advantage to Trump.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on October 09, 2020, 09:27:18 am
1) Biden is ahead of where Hillary was
2) There were high undecideds in swing states that were close, not the case now

Perhaps more importantly, Biden's lead seems to be extremely stable... with an average polling lead of between 4% and ~10%. Regardless of what happens, that doesn't seem to change... Trump does poorly on the debates, little change. Trump catches Covid, little change.

Compare that to 2016, where Hillary sometimes had a very large lead on Trump, but there was a lot more flux over the campaign, with her lead occasionally dropping to the point where her and Trump were in a virtual tie.That seems to be one of the problems... people think "Trump was supposed to lose in 2016 but won... polling is flawed!". But a 30% (heck even a 15% chance) does not mean no chance. Its no different than tossing a dice, and being surprised that it happens to come up with a 6...

Granted, there are some things that are... problematic. Republican efforts to suppress the vote for example. And the electoral college gives an advantage to Trump.

Yes, these are all good points.  Biden's lead is wide, maybe not in landslide territory but - yes - it has ticked up very steadily and slowly.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 09, 2020, 09:37:42 am
Yes, these are all good points.  Biden's lead is wide, maybe not in landslide territory but - yes - it has ticked up very steadily and slowly.
I personally don't think Biden will win in a landslide (probably a slim to comfortable win instead)... but I think it was 538 that said that the chance of Biden winning in a landslide is the same as the chance that Trump would win (in a narrow victory).

The Democrats do need a solid win though.... just to prevent republicans from trying any shenanigans. e.g. "The vote is close.... send it to the supreme court" or "You can't trust the vote, so let the state govs. pick the electors".
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 09, 2020, 11:01:21 am
I personally don't think Biden will win in a landslide (probably a slim to comfortable win instead)... but I think it was 538 that said that the chance of Biden winning in a landslide is the same as the chance that Trump would win (in a narrow victory).

The Democrats do need a solid win though.... just to prevent republicans from trying any shenanigans. e.g. "The vote is close.... send it to the supreme court" or "You can't trust the vote, so let the state govs. pick the electors".

The numbers have been relatively static but they're starting to change. That indicates cracks in Trump's **** base. And a big indication of things starting to move is that some of the GOP senators are distancing from Trump already.

Keeping in mind that a psychopath can never accept defeat, I would suggest something happening to make sure Trump's defeat isn't possible.

The most plausible possibility is Trump pulling out because of illness or feigned illness, making charges of cheating against him, and it resulting in violence to the point at which polls won't be opened because of the police not being able to ensure voter safety. Especially black voter's safety.

Exaggerating? Not for those who understand the psychopath's greatest fear that he considers impossible for himself.

Are there any other explanations on how Trump won't be defeated? Any that are just to horrible to contemplate?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 12, 2020, 04:00:32 pm

Biden tells Ohio today thatís heís running for the senate.  Tells them to register to vote at a non existent website!
 :D :D :D
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 12, 2020, 04:07:32 pm
Biden tells Ohio today thatís heís running for the senate.  Tells them to register to vote at a non existent website!
 :D :D :D

Uh huh. Sleepy Joe is getting forgetful, better vote for the guy with full on dementia.

The problem with the Republicans' attacks on Joe is that any negative they throw at Biden, the same can be said of Trump but 10x worse. And I have a hunch that there's precious few undecideds left, and that most voters have already decided, anyway.  Pushing a narrative like "Sleepy Joe is getting forgetful" isn't going to convince people to vote for the "Man Woman Person Camera TV" guy at this point.

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 12, 2020, 04:23:30 pm
Uh huh. Sleepy Joe is getting forgetful, better vote for the guy with full on dementia.

 -k
Biden has full dementia.  Trump is just an a-hole.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 12, 2020, 05:28:53 pm
Uh huh. Sleepy Joe is getting forgetful, better vote for the guy with full on dementia.

 -k

I would say that an October surprise can easily swing 4 or 5%. Look what happened to Trump in the week of his debate with Biden.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 13, 2020, 08:07:23 am
Right now the polls seem to indicate Biden is approaching landslide territory.  Of course, at the same time 4 years ago we thought the same thing. And who knows what might happen in the next 4 weeks.  But as it stands, states that are typically swing states are looking very blue, and many states that are usually red are looking like swing states.

I was also looking at senate races today.  Right now the senate is 53-47 for the Republicans, so the Democrats need to flip minimum 3 seats.  The Republicans are almost certain to win back the Democrats' Alabama senate seat, and the Democrats appear almost certain to take the Republicans' Arizona senate seat, so that's a draw. 

But there are a number of other senate seats that are seen as possible gains for the Democrats, while few prospects for Republicans gaining seats. Polling shows the Democrats have strong chances in Maine, Colorado, and North Carolina. They are also very close in Montana, South Carolina, and Iowa. The Republicans have a competitive race in Michigan, but (aside from Alabama) that appears to be their only chance of gaining a seat.

Right now 538 has the Democrats as a slight favorite to regain control of the senate.

 -k
The numbers for Hillary weren't as high as they are for Biden. Trump had about a 1:3 chance of winning the election (ie, play Russian roulette with 2 bullets loaded between 6 chambers--Americans shot themselves in the head that night).

I think the likely outcome of this election (as of today--lines move) is Biden winning the presidency and the Republicans maintaining the Senate.

The Senate will then end up being the focus of much criticism due to its disproportionate representation. It's not meant to be representation proportional to the population, however--it's to balance state interests at the federal level. In any case, I'm seeing more and more criticism that points out that California has 2 senators representing 40 million people while the flyover states have 46 senators representing 40 million people. That kind of wildly disproportionate representation from a branch of government that was able to completely shutdown the branch that is representation by population is completely undemocratic. But then, the Republicans said the quiet part out loud this week: "democracy isn't the goal."
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 13, 2020, 10:13:45 am
Representation by land is wildly undemocratic. Weíre lucky that by fluke our Senate is a mostly toothless relic.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on October 13, 2020, 11:04:56 am
I think the likely outcome of this election (as of today--lines move) is Biden winning the presidency and the Republicans maintaining the Senate.
Given the twists and turns of the times though...what happens if Biden catches Covid and croaks before the transition of administrations? Even if Trump loses decisively I imagine the Republicans would go ballistic at the thought of Harris picking up the reins of power like that.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 13, 2020, 08:42:47 pm
Given the twists and turns of the times though...what happens if Biden catches Covid and croaks before the transition of administrations? Even if Trump loses decisively I imagine the Republicans would go ballistic at the thought of Harris picking up the reins of power like that.
What happens if a candidate dies, either immediately before or after an election, or before the president is sworn in, can be quite complex, and the rules are not always clear.

If a candidate dies before the election (but after ballots are printed) or shortly after, then the decision is made by the voters in the electoral college. The decision of what to do in that case is decided by state law... some states  have a rule that the votes go to an alternate designated by the party. Some states have rules that the electoral college votes go to whomever the VP candidate is (i.e. they would have no choice but to vote for harris.)

There is a problem if Biden dies after the electoral college votes are cast, but before congress actually counts the votes. The rules in that situation just have not been laid out.

If Biden dies after the electoral votes are counted by congress but before he is sworn in, then the regular rules of presidential succession kick in.

The Legal Eagle (a lawyer who runs a youtube channel) has a video discussing it, as does 538.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzzugWwv4-M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJxXrjsg3-M

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 13, 2020, 08:56:42 pm
Biden has full dementia.  Trump is just an a-hole.
Yeah, no. Not really.

Biden occasionally uses the wrong word. Usually he catches his mistake and corrects it right away. Republicans use that as somehow evidence of mental decline (generally ignoring the whole part where he corrects himself), when it is generally just the result of, well, being human.

Compare that with Trump....

One time, Trump was asked (by one of the pro-Trump people on Fox news) what he planned to do for a second term. A simple question, easy to answer. What does Trump do? He starts rambling, talking about the definition of the word 'experience', how he knows people, how bolton wanted to bomb people, and how he had an onion tied to his belt when he visited Shelbyville.. It was a totally incoherent, rambling mess, and he made no effort to correct himself or even address the question.  And the thing is, its actually pretty common with Trump.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/trump-hannity-interview-full-of-unintelligible-rambling.html

Then you have the time he was at a ceremony to sign a bill, and he just got up and wandered out of the room.

Now, if someone asked me, which candidate showed greater signs of mental decline, I think I would go with the candidate that ends up giving long rambling, incoherent answers to simple questions (i.e. Trump) over the candidate that occasionally makes mistakes but then corrects himself right after (i.e. Biden).
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 13, 2020, 09:02:46 pm
The numbers for Hillary weren't as high as they are for Biden. Trump had about a 1:3 chance of winning the election (ie, play Russian roulette with 2 bullets loaded between 6 chambers--Americans shot themselves in the head that night).

It's not that I don't believe the polls, it's more that I'm concerned how much impact voter suppression efforts might have. There are voter suppression efforts every US election, of course, and this year will have all the usual. But this year will also have higher than usual numbers of mail-in ballots and the administration has been doing its level best to hamper that as well.



 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 14, 2020, 12:39:46 pm
It's not that I don't believe the polls, it's more that I'm concerned how much impact voter suppression efforts might have. There are voter suppression efforts every US election, of course, and this year will have all the usual. But this year will also have higher than usual numbers of mail-in ballots and the administration has been doing its level best to hamper that as well.




And then kimmy, the more important consideration is with how law enforcement will respond to charges of Trump's cheating. Don't miss the very likely possibility that Trump can tell the law what to do. Would Bill Barr be so bold?

Trump has already been involved in cheating in several different ways and the 'law' hasn't reacted adequately to stop the cheating and reverse its effects.

Think that through on the postal system alone to begin with.

Is there anything that's not been corrupted about their system of allowing people their democratic rights?
Do people stand in lines to vote for 5 hours and more?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 14, 2020, 05:57:31 pm
Leaked emails show joe Biden was lying about not being involved in his sons shady business dealings.  Why would he lie?  What is he hiding?

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/10/14/email-reveals-how-hunter-biden-introduced-ukrainian-biz-man-to-dad/amp/
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 14, 2020, 05:59:21 pm
New sexual harassment claim made against creepy Joe Biden!
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/wife-of-boston-marathon-hero-said-biden-touched-her-in-an-inappropriate-and-uncomfortable-way
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 14, 2020, 06:08:42 pm
Hard to believe anybody actually concerned about creepy behaviour and nepotism would ever turn to Trump as an alternative to Biden.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 14, 2020, 06:19:59 pm
New sexual harassment claim made against creepy Joe Biden!
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/wife-of-boston-marathon-hero-said-biden-touched-her-in-an-inappropriate-and-uncomfortable-way

Pretty flimsy story, but even if there is any validity to it, at least Joe doesn't brag about sexually harassing women like your buddy Donald does.

Maybe stop relying on tabloids, especially far right ones, for your news.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 14, 2020, 08:26:53 pm
Leaked emails show joe Biden was lying about not being involved in his sons shady business dealings.  Why would he lie?  What is he hiding?

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/10/14/email-reveals-how-hunter-biden-introduced-ukrainian-biz-man-to-dad/amp/
I think you might have hit rock bottom in stupid gullibility this time. This is a hilarious story. A fake laptop set up by Giuliani and Bannon no less!

https://www.businessinsider.com/new-york-post-hunter-joe-biden-giuliani-red-flags-disinformation-2020-10
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 15, 2020, 01:33:26 pm
Hard to believe anybody actually concerned about creepy behaviour and nepotism would ever turn to Trump as an alternative to Biden.

Exactly! And also that it's too complicated an issue to change any of the severely lacking minds of the American voter. If they can't comprehend that Trump has done huge irreparable damage to their country, how in hell are they going to understand anything that requires nuance and rational thought?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 20, 2020, 07:44:27 pm
Bad news for the Biden cult.  Both the FBI and DOJ conclude that Hunter Bidenís laptop and emails are not part of any Russian plot.

https://twitter.com/jakebgibson/status/1318675041924665344?s=21
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 20, 2020, 08:28:29 pm
Photos of Joe Biden and Hunter Bidenís Kazakhstan oligarch business partner emerge.  Why did Joe lie about never meeting him?

https://twitter.com/danielchaitin7/status/1318665844906467333?s=21
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 20, 2020, 08:57:16 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/SJyyXwA.png)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 20, 2020, 09:01:30 pm
wait, what's this! Bannon is asking his judge for a delay in his scheduled Oct 26th 'status conference'... a delay until Nov 9. Some wags are speculating the requested delay is in lieu of the Trump pardon not having been announced yet!

(https://i.imgur.com/DwufryH.jpg)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 21, 2020, 11:02:51 am
Why are you posting this in the Joe Biden thread?  This thread is specifically for Joe Biden material, and instances when he drops his dentures in the toilet.  Nothing else.  Btw, does he realize he's running for President now, and not the Senate?  Just wondering!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 21, 2020, 11:26:13 am
Why are you posting this in the Joe Biden thread?  This thread is specifically for Joe Biden material, and instances when he drops his dentures in the toilet.  Nothing else.  Btw, does he realize he's running for President now, and not the Senate?  Just wondering!

It will be fun to watch/listen to Biden kicking the crap out ofTrump tomorrow at the debate. The mute button will stifle Donny's usual approach to debates by simply talking over the other debater.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 21, 2020, 11:45:56 am
Why are you posting this in the Joe Biden thread?  This thread is specifically for Joe Biden material, and instances when he drops his dentures in the toilet.  Nothing else.  Btw, does he realize he's running for President now, and not the Senate?  Just wondering!

yabut, Bannon has been on a mediaTear hyping the "Hunter Biden laptop"... apparently, what was 2016's Clinton emails is now 2020's Hunter Biden emails - speaks to Bannon's character (or lack therein)! Such desperation in your cult, hey member Shady!

about that race, hey! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1318306069265838080/pu/vid/640x360/KlyXCJwHXc9SWKJl.mp4?tag=10)  ;D
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 21, 2020, 11:49:56 am
It will be fun to watch/listen to Biden kicking the crap out of Trump tomorrow at the debate. The mute button will stifle Donny's usual approach to debates by simply talking over the other debater.

Trump will only be muted during the 2-minute segments dedicated to each... once they hit the related 'open discussion' follow-ups, freedom will rise and Trump will be able to play his interuptusMaximus routine!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 21, 2020, 12:13:22 pm
It will be fun to watch/listen to Biden kicking the crap out ofTrump tomorrow at the debate. The mute button will stifle Donny's usual approach to debates by simply talking over the other debater.
Whether that is good or bad for Trump is debatable.

Some people think that Trump's attempts to out-talk Biden in the first debate made him look rude, uncouth, etc. and harmed him as a result. If he has less chance to interrupt, it might fool some people to think he is somehow more reasonable than he is.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on October 21, 2020, 12:15:42 pm
Whether that is good or bad for Trump is debatable.

Some people think that Trump's attempts to out-talk Biden in the first debate made him look rude, uncouth, etc. and harmed him as a result. If he has less chance to interrupt, it might fool some people to think he is somehow more reasonable than he is.

Anything is possible I guess.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 21, 2020, 12:22:26 pm
Btw, does he realize he's running for President now, and not the Senate?  Just wondering!

you do know there's a veritable cottage-industry working to create memes showcasing TrumpDementia... you do know that, right? So many to choose from - I'm kinda partial to this one where world leaders react to Trump signing in their spots! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1318592221604581376/pu/vid/720x720/S0UQmOqzJHMBZiC-.mp4?tag=10)  ;D
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 21, 2020, 12:28:28 pm
Both the FBI and DOJ conclude that Hunter Bidenís laptop and emails are not part of any Russian plot.

ya ya, so says Trump's handpicked DNI toady, John Ratcliffe... now that's a reliable source/statement. But hey, to be precise, the actual statement is along the lines of, 'to this point they have not found related evidence to that end.

speaking of Trump - Russia, this is a fav of mine (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1318618390106304515/pu/vid/720x720/cfYEKtbmdIW-nFFq.mp4?tag=10):
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 21, 2020, 12:47:37 pm
America is corrupt, their politics are corrupt, and their politicians are corrupt. Now it should just be a matter of choosing the candidate that is the least corrupt.

It's not.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 21, 2020, 03:54:30 pm
It will be fun to watch/listen to Biden kicking the crap out ofTrump tomorrow at the debate. The mute button will stifle Donny's usual approach to debates by simply talking over the other debater.
Biden doesnít even know what office heís running for, let alone kicking the crap out of anyone.  He lied so much during the last debate I lost count.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 21, 2020, 04:02:44 pm
Biden doesnít even know what office heís running for, let alone kicking the crap out of anyone.  He lied so much during the last debate I lost count.

Oh I think he knows what office he's running for, and come on, do you think anybody could outscore your buddy donny when it comes to lying? And yes he will have a problem having to abide by the 2 minute rule, that prevents him from simply flapping his gums loudly trying to steamroll over his opponent.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on October 21, 2020, 04:11:42 pm
Trump will probably rant and shout even with his mic muted, just to try and put Biden off. Anything to avoid actually having to rebut something.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 21, 2020, 04:42:54 pm
I donít know why you guys like Biden so much.  Heís Chinaís b*tch and thatís the last thing we need the White House right now.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 21, 2020, 05:05:10 pm
Hopey Changey is out campaigning for Biden.  Voters were so thrilled with his 8 years they voted for Trump!  Lol.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 21, 2020, 05:50:18 pm
Hopey Changey is out campaigning for Biden.  Voters were so thrilled with his 8 years they voted for Trump!  Lol.

3 million more of those U.S. voters... chose Ms. Clinton. But yes, (Russian assisted) Trumpy won the electoral college because he garnered, in total, 77 thousand more votes across 3 states. That was huuuuuuuuuge!  ;D
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 21, 2020, 05:54:59 pm
I donít know why you guys like Biden so much.  Heís Chinaís b*tch and thatís the last thing we need the White House right now.

Gyna's beeatch you say? How so?

hey now, just yesterday the NYT showed Trump has a bank account in China... and Trump pays more in taxes to China (nearly $200,000) than he does to the U.S. ($750... yes, that's right, Seven Hundred & Fifty) - go figure, hey!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 21, 2020, 06:35:04 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/vl68ZW1.png)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 21, 2020, 06:40:49 pm
It's hard to parody Trump in comics because he's actually even worse in real life.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 21, 2020, 07:38:36 pm
hey now Bubber! More real life... member Shady, this is your guy, right - ColludyRudy, right?

(https://i.imgur.com/H4n4EIn.png)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on October 21, 2020, 07:41:52 pm
Hopey Changey is out campaigning for Biden.  Voters were so thrilled with his 8 years they voted for Trump!  Lol.

He's on TV now.  So clear-headed and obvious... it will be a comfort when I don't have to hear orange man's shitty stand-up anymore.  Although I kin d of think he's going to keep going on with it as a revenue source...
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 21, 2020, 08:23:05 pm
Hopey Changey is out campaigning for Biden.  Voters were so thrilled with his 8 years they voted for Trump!  Lol.

Does it hurt to be that stupid?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 21, 2020, 08:53:53 pm
hey now Bubber! More real life... member Shady, this is your guy, right - ColludyRudy, right?

Well now we know why the film is being released 2.5 weeks before the election LOL.  That's quite the October surprise!

Looks like entrapment as a smear tactic is now on the table!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 21, 2020, 09:44:26 pm
Looks like entrapment as a smear tactic is now on the table!
When wasn't it on the table?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 21, 2020, 11:57:08 pm
I donít know why you guys like Biden so much.  Heís Chinaís b*tch and thatís the last thing we need the White House right now.

ďOne of the many great things about our just signed giant Trade Deal with China is that it will bring both the USA & China closer together in so many other ways. Terrific working with President Xi, a man who truly loves his country. Much more to come!Ē
- Donald Trump

"I think they've handled it (coronavirus) professionally and I think they're extremely capable and I think President Xi is extremely capable and I hope that it's going to be resolved."
- Donald Trump

See: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/15/trump-china-coronavirus-188736

Oh, and then there was this:

From: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/28/ivanka-trump-won-china-trademarks-donald-trump-zte-reversal
Ivanka Trumpís fashion and homewares business received initial approval from the Chinese government for five trademark applications days before her father announced a U-turn in policy on ZTE, a Chinese telecoms firm that has admitted breaking US sanctions on Iran and North Korea.

As for Biden? Remember, the Obama/Biden administration was pushing the Trans Pacific Partnership trade deal... this deal did not include china, and would have served to build up the asian rivals to China's economy. And Trump withdrew from the deal.

So why do the MAGAchuds accuse Biden of being soft on China? Well, I figure its projection... they see Stubby McBonespurs engaging in some questionable activities with regards to china, so they try to falsely assume "well, Biden must be doing it as well".
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 06:53:14 am
Does it hurt to be that stupid?
Being accurate isnít stupid.  Other than in this dumpster fire of a forum I guess.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 06:55:41 am
He's on TV now.  So clear-headed and obvious... it will be a comfort when I don't have to hear orange man's shitty stand-up anymore.  Although I kin d of think he's going to keep going on with it as a revenue source...
Unfortunately clear headed isnít enough to make up for terrible policy.  Policy trumps personality.  All of you need to put on your big boy pants and start to realize that.  Donít get so triggered over stupid tweets and dumb jokes.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 06:57:23 am
hey now Bubber! More real life... member Shady, this is your guy, right - ColludyRudy, right?

(https://i.imgur.com/H4n4EIn.png)
No, heís not running for president.  So Iím not sure what you mean.  Now go back to celebrating Michael Avenatti!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 07:05:32 am
I just realized that Bidenís been part of the federal government since before I was born!  JFC.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 22, 2020, 07:19:28 am
Being accurate isnít stupid.  Other than in this dumpster fire of a forum I guess.

it's always a treat to see you slumin' over here - I expect it takes a real concerted effort to leave the comfyConfines of your 'other board' echo-chamber
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 22, 2020, 07:20:38 am
I just realized that Bidenís been part of the federal government since before I was born!  JFC.

now do Cheeto and his time within the fraternal order of ConMen!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 07:21:39 am
it's always a treat to see you slumin' over here - I expect it takes a real concerted effort to leave the comfyConfines of your 'other board' echo-chamber
Ditto.  Except that you guys stay in your echo chamber, save for MH.  Itís just much more work over here.  Because I have 5 times the idiots to respond to in this forum.  Itís time consuming.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 22, 2020, 07:27:05 am
Ditto.  Except that you guys stay in your echo chamber, save for MH.  Itís just much more work over here.  Because I have 5 times the idiots to respond to in this forum.  Itís time consuming.

you have stamina & perseverance! Keep trying and I expect you'll eventually win one here!  ;D
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 22, 2020, 07:31:57 am
Quote
The Borat video is a complete fabrication. I was tucking in my shirt after taking off the recording equipment.

(https://i.imgur.com/y3QJpLd.png)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: WakeYouUp on October 22, 2020, 09:02:02 am
A few days ago I created a thread talking about the scandal of the Biden Family. Many members replied. However, the moderator deleted it without warning or any explanation. What a coward move!

The forum is supposed to be for public debating so you need opinions from different sides. Otherwise, you can just call this forum for Democrats or Liberals. Don't call it Politics Forum

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 09:44:07 am
Being accurate isnít stupid.  Other than in this dumpster fire of a forum I guess.

Do you think I care about this forum - at all - ?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 22, 2020, 10:53:16 am
A few days ago I created a thread talking about the scandal of the Biden Family. Many members replied. However, the moderator deleted it without warning or any explanation. What a coward move!
The moderator of the forum is maintaining things by his own efforts. As such, he is entitled to run things as he sees fit.

He is not being a 'coward'... he is simply applying his best judgement to allow a proper exchange of ideas.
Quote
The forum is supposed to be for public debating so you need opinions from different sides. Otherwise, you can just call this forum for Democrats or Liberals.
I agree that it is valuable in an on-line forum to have opinions from different sides. If you go to other parts of this forum, you will see plenty of rational debate.

However, in the other thread, that was not what you were doing. Instead, what you did was posted material from questionable sources that made absolutely no logical sense. And when you were challenged by people showing problems with your claims, you did nothing to defend your earlier post, instead you doubled down and posted even more insane conspiracy nonsense.

In my opinion, there is absolutely no value in that to anyone who wants to actually engage in reasonable, rational debate. Its like having an astronomy forum invaded by flat earthers, where the flat earthers start to complain about people not taking their theories seriously.

But I guess that's typical for Trump and his supporters... they are pretty much indefensible (what with the whole economic collapse, illegal and unethical behavior, and pandemic raging through the U.S. population.) So the only way they can make political points against Biden is to make up ever more insane conspiracy nonsense.
Quote
(Attachment)
And, this illustrates my point perfectly...

Here you have posted an accusation insinuating Hunter Biden was involved in child abuse.... What is your evidence? A twitter posting with no references, from someone named Wayne Allyn Root, a man known for pushing various conspiracy theories, and who has been in legal trouble for illegally promoting fake Covid19 cures. In other words, a con artist.

And the claim that there is evidence of torture makes no sense... he claims that the "chinese have the videos" Then of course you have the fact that he was referring to "sources".... what sources? In the FBI? In the Trump campaign?

Now, here is my prediction... now that your accusation against Biden has been completely debunked, you will either do absolutely nothing to defend it, instead you will double down and post yet another insane theory that again has no valid supporting evidence, or if you do try to defend it, your response will be void of valid references.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 22, 2020, 11:50:45 am
Well now we know why the film is being released 2.5 weeks before the election LOL.  That's quite the October surprise!

Looks like entrapment as a smear tactic is now on the table!

Yes it does but in fairness there's nothing left that hasn't already been used and declared fair play. Shame on anybody who supports either of them. Canadians are better than that Gorgeous.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 22, 2020, 11:53:31 am
(https://i.imgur.com/y3QJpLd.png)

Much the same as Larry Craig's 'wide stance'. Remember that one?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 11:58:55 am
you have stamina & perseverance! Keep trying and I expect you'll eventually win one here!  ;D
Sorry.  Already thereís at least 10 replies to respond to.  I donít have that kind of time.  Iím not a Democrat/BLM/Antifa supporter where I donít have to worry about a job during the day.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 22, 2020, 12:53:08 pm
You need to get out of the fast food service industry and get one of those president jobs.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 22, 2020, 12:56:44 pm
You need to get out of the fast food service industry and get one of those president jobs.
Wouldn't he have to make the restaurant go bankrupt first?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 01:16:25 pm
You need to get out of the fast food service industry and get one of those president jobs.
I havenít been in the fast food industry since I was in high school.  Thanks for the tip though.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 01:17:23 pm
Wouldn't he have to make the restaurant go bankrupt first?
You Branch Covidians are doing a swell job of that already.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 02:58:38 pm
Biden campaign blames Russia for Hunter Biden selling access, making millions of dollars and giving Joe kickbacks.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: WakeYouUp on October 22, 2020, 04:10:24 pm
The moderator of the forum is maintaining things by his own efforts. As such, he is entitled to run things as he sees fit.

He is not being a 'coward'... he is simply applying his best judgement to allow a proper exchange of ideas.I agree that it is valuable in an on-line forum to have opinions from different sides. If you go to other parts of this forum, you will see plenty of rational debate.

However, in the other thread, that was not what you were doing. Instead, what you did was posted material from questionable sources that made absolutely no logical sense. And when you were challenged by people showing problems with your claims, you did nothing to defend your earlier post, instead you doubled down and posted even more insane conspiracy nonsense.

In my opinion, there is absolutely no value in that to anyone who wants to actually engage in reasonable, rational debate. Its like having an astronomy forum invaded by flat earthers, where the flat earthers start to complain about people not taking their theories seriously.

But I guess that's typical for Trump and his supporters... they are pretty much indefensible (what with the whole economic collapse, illegal and unethical behavior, and pandemic raging through the U.S. population.) So the only way they can make political points against Biden is to make up ever more insane conspiracy nonsense.And, this illustrates my point perfectly...

Here you have posted an accusation insinuating Hunter Biden was involved in child abuse.... What is your evidence? A twitter posting with no references, from someone named Wayne Allyn Root, a man known for pushing various conspiracy theories, and who has been in legal trouble for illegally promoting fake Covid19 cures. In other words, a con artist.

And the claim that there is evidence of torture makes no sense... he claims that the "chinese have the videos" Then of course you have the fact that he was referring to "sources".... what sources? In the FBI? In the Trump campaign?

Now, here is my prediction... now that your accusation against Biden has been completely debunked, you will either do absolutely nothing to defend it, instead you will double down and post yet another insane theory that again has no valid supporting evidence, or if you do try to defend it, your response will be void of valid references.

Hunter's business partner just confirmed that those emails are real. Here's the link
https://nypost.com/2020/10/22/hunter-biz-partner-confirms-e-mail-details-joe-bidens-push-to-make-millions-from-china/

The former mayor of New York filed a police report on purported Hunter Biden laptop, alleging child endangerment
https://justthenews.com/government/courts-law/rudy-giuliani-reports-evidence-alleged-child-endangerment-delaware-police

The Homeland Security Committee of the Senate published the report on Hunter's corruption
https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Ukraine%20Report_FINAL.pdf

Is Senate a reliable source of information?

For anybody who takes reputation seriously and is facing such an accusation would definitely publicly defends himself or even go further like files lawsuits against the person or newspaper for damaging his reputation. Have you seen any action from Biden? Absolutely nothing except just saying it's all false information.

Even for you guys, the Trump-hater and Biden supporter, as long as you still see yourself as an independent thinking person, once this kind of news published and it's so important related to the future of the world, you would keep your curiosity up and dig deeper to what is really going on. Not like an ostrich, close your eyes, and pretend there is nothing happened.

Too many people living in North America are just too naive. They don't have the gut to see evil things. Once someone tells them the truly evil things and that just beyond their imagination or bottom line, they just refuse to accept and simply say it's no logic.

Wake Up! Do your research and it's pretty easy as we have Google!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: WakeYouUp on October 22, 2020, 04:17:50 pm
Just in case someone might want information from a reliable source, here's the news from WSJ

https://www.wsj.com/articles/now-corruption-story-is-about-joe-not-hunter-11603392288

Hunter's business partner Tony Bobulinski spoke out publicly.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 04:30:14 pm
Just in case someone might want information from a reliable source, here's the news from WSJ

https://www.wsj.com/articles/now-corruption-story-is-about-joe-not-hunter-11603392288

Hunter's business partner Tony Bobulinski spoke out publicly.
Yep.  Hunter made sure to get an extra 10% for the ďbig guyĒ.  You gotta wonder how many decades Joeís been selling access to the federal government.  But the Biden cult wonít care.  Joe could **** Tara Reade again in the corner of 5th avenue and his supporters wouldnít budge.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 04:30:52 pm
Emails from the laptop are being confirmed as legit.

https://twitter.com/warroompandemic/status/1319022578002964485?s=21
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 22, 2020, 05:17:23 pm
Emails from the laptop are being confirmed as legit.

https://twitter.com/warroompandemic/status/1319022578002964485?s=21

I have tended to start thinking that the Trump side has an issue to work on here. But I've been fooled before and can't just discount all of Trump's lies.

I need to say that I don't have a dog in the fight and don't consider one candidate much better than the other. That is, considering the impact on Canada and the rest of the world on peaceful relations with the US.

On domestic issues, they have no real prospects in the mix for the people of that country.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 22, 2020, 05:28:32 pm
Emails from the laptop are being confirmed as legit.

https://twitter.com/warroompandemic/status/1319022578002964485?s=21
Funny. FoxNews reporting is very different from what you say:
"The messages seem to indicate that a meeting took place, though it's unclear what the substance of the meeting may have been. They are unrelated to the laptop or hard drive purportedly belonging to Hunter Biden, the former vice president's son."
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 22, 2020, 05:44:05 pm
Emails from the laptop are being confirmed as legit.

https://twitter.com/warroompandemic/status/1319022578002964485?s=21

I think it's a lot bigger of an issue that Biden and Kamala have refused to answer whether or not they will stack the Supreme Court if Trump's pick is confirmed.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 22, 2020, 05:56:43 pm
By boycotting the senate vote for Barrett, the Dems havee appeared to have stumbled on a 'legal' mechannism to use to take her off the court at a later date. My details are sketchy but apparently the need two Dem senators to get it on the floor.
And of course the Dems would have to win the senate.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 05:59:19 pm
I think it's a lot bigger of an issue that Biden and Kamala have refused to answer whether or not they will stack the Supreme Court if Trump's pick is confirmed.
Thatís true.  The fact that they refuse to answer speaks volumes and is pretty disgusting.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 06:00:46 pm
Uh oh!

Hunter Bidenís former business partner says heíll turn over electronic devices and records to the FBI.

Get ready for a special prosecutor this year or in 2022.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 22, 2020, 06:04:28 pm
I think it's a lot bigger of an issue that Biden and Kamala have refused to answer whether or not they will stack the Supreme Court if Trump's pick is confirmed.
They answered. They said they would establish a bipartisan commission to look at restructuring so it's no longer such a political clown show.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 22, 2020, 06:05:54 pm
Get ready for a special prosecutor this year or in 2022.
Yes, I imagine Bannon and Rudy are going to be investigated for fraud.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 06:23:16 pm
I think it's a lot bigger of an issue that Biden and Kamala have refused to answer whether or not they will stack the Supreme Court if Trump's pick is confirmed.

What's the issue? They clearly need to do something. The court is completely out of touch with America.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 07:02:48 pm
What's the issue? They clearly need to do something. The court is completely out of touch with America.
Sometimes the court is more liberal, especially in the past.  Sometimes itís more conservative.  Itís not meant to be a mini House of Representatives.  Packing the court only delegitimizes it.  Youíre completely insane if you think thatís an appropriate action.  When FDR tried it, he was roundly denounced by both parties.  Itís what happens in banana republics.  If you want to appoint judges, win the presidency and control the senate.  You donít expand the number of judges.  Thatís absurd and illustrates how out of touch you are with American history and politics.  Yours is one of the stupidest Iíve ever read in this echo chamber forum.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 07:04:37 pm
They answered. They said they would establish a bipartisan commission to look at restructuring so it's no longer such a political clown show.
Itís not a clown show.  Itís exactly as itís been for decades.  Read the **** constitution.  You banana republic wannabe.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 22, 2020, 07:25:02 pm
Packing the court only delegitimizes it. 
You didn't complain when Republicans created a huge backlog by refusing to even have hearings for Obama appointments and then rushed to fill them under Trump. You're only against stacking now because you anticipate the Dems will soon have control of both houses and the executive.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 22, 2020, 07:27:10 pm
Read the **** constitution. 
What specifically are you referring to? I have a feeling you don't know.  :D
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: WakeYouUp on October 22, 2020, 07:31:23 pm
Tony Bobulinski Held presser. Here's the link

https://youtu.be/EqeO0ODwYCA

Remember, the Russian scandal is just the side dish. The real one is the Chinses Communist Party's bribery of Biden
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 07:53:01 pm
You didn't complain when Republicans created a huge backlog by refusing to even have hearings for Obama appointments and then rushed to fill them under Trump. You're only against stacking now because you anticipate the Dems will soon have control of both houses and the executive.
And Democrats did the same to Bush.  Packing not stacking.  It doesnít sound like you know what youíre talking about.  Packing the court means expanding it from 9 justices to 12, 15, whatever.  And the republicans can expand it again to 17 or 20, and so on.  Hopefully this illustrates how ludicrous this idea is and how destructive to the institution of the court.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 07:53:21 pm
Sometimes the court is more liberal, especially in the past.  Sometimes itís more conservative.  Itís not meant to be a mini House of Representatives.  Packing the court only delegitimizes it.  Youíre completely insane if you think thatís an appropriate action.  When FDR tried it, he was roundly denounced by both parties.  Itís what happens in banana republics.  If you want to appoint judges, win the presidency and control the senate.  You donít expand the number of judges.  Thatís absurd and illustrates how out of touch you are with American history and politics.  Yours is one of the stupidest Iíve ever read in this echo chamber forum.

The US is a banana republic. Thereís even a monkey in charge.

Iíve learned of late that Americans are no more conservative than Canadians. Their system of government is simply structured to make it look that way. The peopleís will is constantly thwarted by the refusal to grant statehood to Puerto Rico, the outdated upper chamber, the unrepresentative House of Representatives, and the electoral college. Itís a banana republic.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 07:54:16 pm
And Democrats did the same to Bush.  Packing not stacking.  It doesnít sound like you know what youíre talking about.  Packing the court means expanding it from 9 justices to 12, 15, whatever.  And the republicans can expand it again to 17 or 20, and so on.  Hopefully this illustrates how ludicrous this idea is and how destructive to the institution of the court.

Whatís destructive is holding a Supreme Court dear open for 317 days and expecting people to forget your hypocrisy.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 08:04:50 pm
Sometimes the court is more liberal, especially in the past.

The court is significantly more conservative than the American public.

Quote
Packing the court only delegitimizes it.

Too late.

Quote
Youíre completely insane if you think thatís an appropriate action.  When FDR tried it, he was roundly denounced by both parties.  Itís what happens in banana republics.  If you want to appoint judges, win the presidency and control the senate.  You donít expand the number of judges.

It's been done 4 times
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 22, 2020, 08:23:51 pm
What specifically are you referring to? I have a feeling you don't know.  :D
Why is it always so easy to stump you by just asking you to clarify what you're talking about? It's like you just repeat talking points without reading about the issue further.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 22, 2020, 08:36:42 pm
And Democrats did the same to Bush.  Packing not stacking.  It doesnít sound like you know what youíre talking about.  Packing the court means expanding it from 9 justices to 12, 15, whatever.  And the republicans can expand it again to 17 or 20, and so on.  Hopefully this illustrates how ludicrous this idea is and how destructive to the institution of the court.
How come you weren't concerned about destroying the institution of the court when the GOP arbitrarily deflated the number to 8 for nearly a year for partisan political purposes?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 22, 2020, 08:51:28 pm
What's the issue? They clearly need to do something. The court is completely out of touch with America.

America elected a conservative POTUS and a conservative Senate.  Gerrymandering is bad, but you can't gerrymander the electoral college or the Senate.  I don't want a conservative SCOTUS, but that's not my call.

Expanding the SCOTUS for the sole purpose of stacking it in your favour is what you'd call a banana republic.  Imagine if Harper or Trump had done something like that.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 08:53:13 pm
America elected a conservative POTUS and a conservative Senate.  Gerrymandering is bad, but you can't gerrymander the electoral college or the Senate.  I don't want a conservative SCOTUS, but that's not my call.

The Senate is in fact gerrymandered (never mind the fact that it's an outdated model for representation) because Republicans have ensured that Puerto Ricans have no representation there.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 08:55:36 pm
Expanding the SCOTUS for the sole purpose of stacking it in your favour is what you'd call a banana republic.  Imagine if Harper or Trump had done something like that.

Imagine if the people's will was thwarted virtually every time a Republican held the presidency in my lifetime.

Wait, you don't have to imagine that.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 08:55:41 pm

ďWe had a good relationship with HitlerĒ - Joe Biden, 2nd presidential debate.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 08:56:15 pm

ďWe had a good relationship with HitlerĒ - Joe Biden, 2nd presidential debate.


You're a **** moron.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 08:57:28 pm
The Senate is in fact gerrymandered (never mind the fact that it's an outdated model for representation) because Republicans have ensured that Puerto Ricans have no representation there.
Youíre a complete moron.  How do you gerrymand a senate seat?  This forum might be the dumbest Iíve ever participated in.  Senate races are state wide.  You canít gerrymander them.  JFC.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 08:59:10 pm
You're a **** moron.
Says the person who thinks gerrymandering works in senate elections.  The ignorance is mind blowing.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 09:00:48 pm
Youíre a complete moron.  How do you gerrymand a senate seat?  This forum might be the dumbest Iíve ever participated in.  Senate races are state wide.  You canít gerrymander them.  JFC.

3 million Americans in Puerto Rico have 0 senate seats. Support has existed for make Puerto Rico a state since at least 2012, and in reality much longer. Republicans want none of that. Puerto Rico being a state would mean that holding the senate would be far harder for the Republicans. I won't even talk about DC being a state, but the same thing applies.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 22, 2020, 09:01:30 pm
Iíve learned of late that Americans are no more conservative than Canadians.

Ridiculous claim.

What's the popular vote each POTUS election for the GOP vs the Democrats every election?  It's virtually always a near even split.  In Canada what's the popular vote of left-leaning vs right-leaning parties every federal election?  If the left-wing parties united there would never be a conservative PM in this country.

Once again you're trying to fit reality into your views.  You want to stack the court because YOU don't like it.  I don't like most conservative US politicians especially the religious nutjobs, but i'm also not a tyrant.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 09:05:42 pm
Ridiculous claim.

What's the popular vote each POTUS election for the GOP vs the Democrats every election?  It's virtually always a near even split.

'Virtually' is a great way of saying that the Republican almost never wins.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 09:13:35 pm
'Virtually' is a great way of saying that the Republican almost never wins.
Thatís absurd.  There has only been 3 presidential elections were the winner didnít win the popular vote.  2 were Republicans, 1 was Democrat.  Do you just like to make **** up?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 09:16:30 pm
Thatís absurd.  There has only been 3 presidential elections were the winner didnít win the popular vote.  2 were Republicans, 1 was Democrat.  Do you just like to make **** up?

The Republicans have won the popular vote twice in the last 30 years.

Also, you should check your facts. It's happened 5 times. 4 of those times it was in favour of the Republicans.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 09:20:59 pm
The Republicans have won the popular vote twice in the last 30 years.

Also, you should check your facts.

I should check my facts. They've won the popular vote once since I was born in 1989.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 09:21:07 pm
The Republicans have won the popular vote twice in the last 30 years.

Also, you should check your facts.
Why are you cherry-picking 30 years?  Why not 40 or 50?  Is it because Nixon won twice?  Reagan won twice? 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 09:21:53 pm
I should check my facts. They've won the popular vote once since I was born in 1989.
Wrong again.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 09:23:21 pm
Why are you cherry-picking 30 years?  Why not 40 or 50?  Is it because Nixon won twice?  Reagan won twice?

Maybe we should talk about the 1924 election to try to figure out what happens in 2024?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 09:23:27 pm
Joe Biden is getting his ass handed to him tonight!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 09:23:38 pm
Wrong again.

2004. Which other one?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 09:24:27 pm
Maybe we should talk about the 1924 election to try to figure out what happens in 2024?
Or you could talk about your scheme to gerrymander senate elections!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 09:28:10 pm
Or you could talk about your scheme to gerrymander senate elections!

More than 4 million Americans have zero Senate representation. Puerto Rico should be a state. DC should probably be a state, or at least have fair representation.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 22, 2020, 09:29:34 pm
More than 4 million Americans have zero Senate representation. Puerto Rico should be a state. DC should probably be a state, or a least have fair representation.
Thatís not gerrymandering.  And no, they shouldnít be states.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 09:34:57 pm
There are 20 states with smaller populations than Puerto Rico, and 2 with smaller populations than DC.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 22, 2020, 09:42:24 pm
I should check my facts. They've won the popular vote once since I was born in 1989.

What about 1988.  1984?  1980?  Why the convenient goalpost of 1989?

I think the Electoral College is dumb too, but those are the rules.  If we want to know how conservative or liberal the US is, then we can look at the vote split for left-wing and right-wing parties or candidates.  It's far, far closer split than Canada.  The US is more conservative than Canada.

Also, Puerto Rico has elected a Republican for their political rep in Congress in 2 of the last 3 elections.  See i can choose convenient goalposts too.

You're anti-gerrymandering but you want to "gerrymander" the SCOTUS.  Even if you wanted to the GOP would just do the same the next time they had the chance, it makes no sense.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 09:45:50 pm
What about 1988.  1984?  1980?  Why the convenient goalpost of 1989?

I was born in 1989. Also, that's the last 30 years of voting. Once in 30 years.

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I think the Electoral College is dumb too, but those are the rules.  If we want to know how conservative or liberal the US is, then we can look at the vote split for left-wing and right-wing parties or candidates.  It's far, far closer split than Canada.  The US is more conservative than Canada.

You have no idea what the split in Canada would be with a two party system. It's clear the US demographic mix is shifting left.

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Also, Puerto Rico has elected a Republican for their political rep in Congress in 2 of the last 3 elections.  See i can choose convenient goalposts too.

Puerto Ricans don't have representation. That one dude isn't representative of anything.

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You're anti-gerrymandering but you want to "gerrymander" the SCOTUS.  Even if you wanted to the GOP would just do the same the next time they had the chance, it makes no sense.

Nope. 1 judge per court circuit and a tie breaker for 13. That would bring the justice total closer to the electoral reality.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 22, 2020, 10:28:13 pm
You have no idea what the split in Canada would be with a two party system. It's clear the US demographic mix is shifting left.
I'm quite sure the vast majority of people who vote NDP and Green wouldn't vote Conservative.

Every western country shifts to the left as the decades and centuries roll on, and conservatives do too.

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Puerto Ricans don't have representation. That one dude isn't representative of anything.
It's an elected official to the US, it's the best evidence there is.

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Nope. 1 judge per court circuit and a tie breaker for 13. That would bring the justice total closer to the electoral reality.

The GOP will just change it to 15 next time.  It won't solve what you want it to.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 10:51:02 pm
I'm quite sure the vast majority of people who vote NDP and Green wouldn't vote Conservative.

Every western country shifts to the left as the decades and centuries roll on, and conservatives do too.
It's an elected official to the US, it's the best evidence there is.

The GOP will just change it to 15 next time.  It won't solve what you want it to.

Like I said - something had to be done with a court this out of step with the population.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on October 22, 2020, 11:08:36 pm
More than 4 million Americans have zero Senate representation. Puerto Rico should be a state. DC should probably be a state, or at least have fair representation.

They are definitely second class "citizens".
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 22, 2020, 11:31:59 pm
Joe Biden is getting his ass handed to him tonight!

https://twitter.com/usa_polling/status/1319495338999283713?s=21
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 22, 2020, 11:59:34 pm
Joe Biden is getting his ass handed to him tonight!

Looks like you jumped the gun big time on that one, again. Biden won overall in double digits according to most polls, unless of course you get your news from FAUX. I suspect donald finally obeyed his handlers for once and between that and the mute button the debate came off more sanely for him than the previous one. However he lied almost constantly and Daniel Dale had a ton to report on. Biden will remain at least as far ahead in the polls if he doesn't even increase after tonight.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/22/presidential-debate-what-to-watch-431301
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: WakeYouUp on October 23, 2020, 12:14:08 am
Biden is such a liar and he's really good at lying. He could have won the best actor of Oscar many times.

Here's the newest article revealing the corruption tie between the Biden family and the Chinese Communist Party

https://gnews.org/440825/

Remember, due to the deep state and fake news, you need to get real information from other countries.

To be fair, Gnews is a company registered in the USA. If the Biden family thinks its reputation hurt by the false information published on the Gnews, they welcome the Biden family to file a lawsuit against them if the Biden family has any courage.

This is the most corrupted family in American history. It's targeted by the Chinese Communist Party and bribed by money, sex, and drug.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 23, 2020, 07:28:02 am
Remember, due to the deep state and fake news, you need to get real information from other countries.

If the Biden family thinks its reputation hurt by the false information published on the Gnews, they welcome the Biden family to file a lawsuit against them if the Biden family has any courage.

This is the most corrupted family in American history. It's targeted by the Chinese Communist Party and bribed by money, sex, and drug.

(https://i.imgur.com/iXK3rw4.png)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 23, 2020, 07:55:49 am
Tony Bobulinski Held presser. Here's the link

Remember, the Russian scandal is just the side dish. The real one is the Chinses Communist Party's bribery of Biden

(https://i.imgur.com/I5d8N3V.png)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 23, 2020, 07:57:40 am
Remember, the Russian scandal is just the side dish.

(https://i.imgur.com/py3iKjt.png)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: WakeYouUp on October 23, 2020, 09:47:53 am
(https://i.imgur.com/py3iKjt.png)

First, this report was done before the hard drives were made known by the public. So the Senate has to review the report.

Second, you can't deny the corruption of Hunter, right? The report from the Senate confirmed this.

Third, could you please have some sort of common sense? The son knew nothing about energy but he's signing deals with companies from China, Ukraine for millions. For what? consulting! The father knew nothing about it? What kind of relation between these two? As a heavy-weight politician, he has a responsibility to monitor his family members that nobody might take advantage of his political influence, right?

Lastly, the business partner of Hunter just stood out yesterday and it's clear that Joe Biden lied and He knew everything 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 23, 2020, 10:12:02 am
Youíre a complete moron.  How do you gerrymand a senate seat?
True, the senate isn't "gerrymandered". But, it is biased in the fact that smaller, rural states have more power/influence on a per-voter basis than larger, more urbanized states.

The use of the phrase 'gerrymandering' is incorrect, but concentrating on that error ignores the bigger problem: that the U.S. senate system is problematic because it disenfranchises voters to a significant degree.
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This forum might be the dumbest Iíve ever participated in.
Time and time again, you have made bogus claims in this forum. Time and time again, you have been debunked, with evidence provided that illustrates your mistakes. Your typical response is to run away, and then post more bogus claims later.

Before you accuse people here of being "dumb", perhaps you had better look at your own posting record.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 23, 2020, 10:34:12 am
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The Republicans have won the popular vote twice in the last 30 years.

Also, you should check your facts.
Why are you cherry-picking 30 years?  Why not 40 or 50?  Is it because Nixon won twice?  Reagan won twice?
The reason why people tend to put more emphasis on the republicans loss over the past 30 years (as opposed to the past 40/50 years) is because of the way politics has evolved.

First of all, the political environment has become much more static since the days of Bush Sr., with most states firmly entrenched in their political camps.... Carter won texas, Ford won California, Reagan won new york, Clinton won multiple deep-south states, etc. But since 2000, most states have become firm in their voting patterns.... Republicans always win texas, the deep south, and most interior states, Democrats win NY, California, etc. There are very few swing states. This appears to be a new development, and it does not appear to be changing.

Secondly, the republican party have become a group of ass-hats, between dirty election tricks (gerrymandering congressional districts, widespread voter suppression, etc.) and the breaking of political norms (such as the use of obstructionism). Back in the 70s, the republicans had enough integrity to play a role in forcing Nixon out of office. Now, in the 21st century, Trump has engaged in more unethical behavior than Nixon ever did, and the republicans continue to line up behind him. And those are the people that are deciding on judges, who will have an influence on how people live for decades to come.

Lastly, we pay more attention to what has happened in the past 30 years because it appears to be the trend. If you have centuries of relatively stable "winner of the popular vote usually also wins the electoral college", and then within a few decades have a system where the republicans regularly fail to win the popular vote but still end up in power, people are right to question it.

If I show up at the hospital emergency room gushing blood through an open wound, the question the doctors are going to be primarly concerned with what happened post-injury. They are not going to say "There is nothing to worry about because you lived for decades before that injury".
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 23, 2020, 10:55:06 am
Sometimes the court is more liberal, especially in the past.  Sometimes itís more conservative.  Itís not meant to be a mini House of Representatives.
No its not. But its also not supposed to be the personal plaything of Moscow Mitch and Stubby McBonespurs.

The democrats have won the popular vote in the majority of the past elections. Democratic politicians represent a larger share of the American voters. The majority of the population favors things like Abortion rights and Obamacare. Yet we are in a situation where a russian-backed president who lost the popular vote, along with senators who largely represent states with more cows than people, are going to be in charge of selecting the people who will be interpreting the laws and the constitution.

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Packing the court only delegitimizes it.
Delegitimized according to who? If the democrats pack the court, it will still have the same authority it will have before.

Actually, the court has already been delegitimized, thanks to the actions of the republicans.

If it is perfectly acceptable for the Republicans to break political norms (e.g. blocking court nominations, cramming through judicial appointments), then they can't necessarily complain when the Democrats decide to do the same.
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When FDR tried it, he was roundly denounced by both parties.
Different era.  Back then, at least the republican party had some integrity. They do not now.
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Itís what happens in banana republics.
And what does having a president that got into power in part through the manipulation of Russia, and supported by a senate who's republican members represent a minority of the population count as?
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If you want to appoint judges, win the presidency and control the senate.  You donít expand the number of judges.  Thatís absurd and illustrates how out of touch you are with American history and politics.
Actually it seems to be you that is out of touch with American history.

The number of judges is not defined in the constitution, nor has the number of judges been fixed at 9. In the past it has varied from 6 to 10.

It should also be pointed out that by blocking the appointment of Garland, Republican senators basically stated that the number of judges does not HAVE to be 9... functionally they were allowing the court to have 8... (And in fact one Republican senator claimed that had Clinton won in 2016, they would have continued to block any nominations.) So Republicans can't both claim "9 is the perfect number" and "8 was A-OK for a year".
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 23, 2020, 11:22:37 am
Hunter's business partner just confirmed that those emails are real. Here's the link
https://nypost.com/2020/10/22/hunter-biz-partner-confirms-e-mail-details-joe-bidens-push-to-make-millions-from-china/
Correction... Hunter's business partner did not confirm the emails were real.

Some individual (at this point we don't know how trustworthy he is) has claimed (without yet providing proof) that a few emails (actually it may only be one) has TEXT that is real. We do not know whether this individual is trustworthy. Furthermore, he has not verified ALL of the emails, nor has he provided anything (such as email metadata) to illustrate that the email itself was sent from/received on Hunter Biden's laptop (Or, more appropriately, on the laptop CLAIMED to be Hunter Biden's). More importantly, he has not done anything to verify any of the other allegations (such as the images of child abuse)

Oh, and by the way, there is also this:
From: https://time.com/5902557/hunter-biden-rudy-giuliani-ukraine/
Explicit photos and emails purportedly belonging to Hunter Biden were circulating in Ukraine last year at the same time that Rudy Giuliani was searching for dirt there on former Vice President Joe Biden

So, this laptop, that the shop owner claimed the laptop he received in Mid-2019 and about which he only contacted people in late 2019, already had data that may have been circulating before Guilianni and the FBI got involved.

Oh, and by the way, note that my reference was from Time Magazine... a reputable mainstream media source, and not some tinfoil-hat conspiracy site like you seem to favor.
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The former mayor of New York filed a police report on purported Hunter Biden laptop, alleging child endangerment
https://justthenews.com/government/courts-law/rudy-giuliani-reports-evidence-alleged-child-endangerment-delaware-police
You mean the guy who is currently under investigation because it is thought that he is being targeted to be a Russian stooge?

From: https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/521328-intelligence-officials-warned-trump-that-giuliani-was-target-of
Intelligence officials warned President Trump that his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani was the target of an influence campaign conducted by Russian intelligence...intelligence officers were worried that the presidentís personal lawyer was being used to pass Russian misinformation to Trump.
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The Homeland Security Committee of the Senate published the report on Hunter's corruption
https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Ukraine%20Report_FINAL.pdf

Is Senate a reliable source of information?
At this point I would not trust any republican senator.
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For anybody who takes reputation seriously and is facing such an accusation would definitely publicly defends himself or even go further like files lawsuits against the person or newspaper for damaging his reputation. Have you seen any action from Biden? Absolutely nothing except just saying it's all false information.
What more needs to be done?

Its such a silly accusation that anyone going out of their way to deny it gives it more credibility than it deserves.
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Wake Up! Do your research and it's pretty easy as we have Google!
Ah yes, the whole "wake up!" argument.

The same argument used by Moon Hoaxers, (Wake up! Can't you see the moon landings were faked), 9/11 deniers (Wake up! Can't you see the towers were destroyed by alien death rays!), and flat earthers (Wake up! Can't you see that NASA is all a hoax!)

Here's a suggestion... learn to apply some rationality and skepticism when you look at information. Evaluate information based on the sources. Before you post something from your google searches, ask yourself "is this web site legitimate", and look at something like the media bias web site.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 23, 2020, 12:34:47 pm
True, the senate isn't "gerrymandered". But, it is biased in the fact that smaller, rural states have more power/influence on a per-voter basis than larger, more urbanized states.

The use of the phrase 'gerrymandering' is incorrect, but concentrating on that error ignores the bigger problem: that the U.S. senate system is problematic because it disenfranchises voters to a significant degree.Time and time again,

That's the way the system was specifically designed.  The rep by pop is in the House of Representatives.  It was designed so the people can't dominate the states and vice versa.  Checks and balances.  Also, the "United States" is at its core a union of states.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 23, 2020, 12:40:57 pm
That's the way the system was specifically designed.  The rep by pop is in the House of Representatives.  It was designed so the people can't dominate the states and vice versa.  Checks and balances.  Also, the "United States" is at its core a union of states.
Exactly.  They don't understand federalism.  They don't understand representative republic.  Every state was made to have the same number of senators in the senate, while the house reflects population percentages.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 23, 2020, 01:00:43 pm
That's the way the system was specifically designed.  The rep by pop is in the House of Representatives.  It was designed so the people can't dominate the states and vice versa.  Checks and balances.  Also, the "United States" is at its core a union of states.

That's correct but it's not a system that is working very well. It's hard to imagine how they could fix it without just throwing it out and turning to a parliamentary system.

The formation of the union called for compromises to democracy. Any ideas? perhaps some adjustment in the power of the people's House to make it at least equally as powerful as their senate?

It seems to me that the system has shown how it can be perverted in the very short time of Trump's 4 years.
The power of the president
The corruption of the Scotus
The corruption of the justice system. (Barr)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: WakeYouUp on October 23, 2020, 01:17:12 pm
Just can't wake up the people refusing to be wakened.

Hope all the Biden supporters here coming back in about a month to review their posts here and not feel ashamed.

Enjoy your weekend
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 23, 2020, 01:24:40 pm
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The use of the phrase 'gerrymandering' is incorrect, but concentrating on that error ignores the bigger problem: that the U.S. senate system is problematic because it disenfranchises voters to a significant degree.
That's the way the system was specifically designed.  The rep by pop is in the House of Representatives.  It was designed so the people can't dominate the states and vice versa.
Yes, that was the way it was designed. And it might have worked for a while. But what worked well in the 18th and 19th centuries does not seem to work well in the 21st century.

Things have changed... the population has become more urbanized, the population differences between the smallest and largest states has become more pronounced, the U.S. has more states, plus territories that it did not have in the 18th century (and in one case a territory that has more people than Wyoming, Vermont and North Dakota combined). And as I mentioned before, the political system is suffering from both stagnation (i.e. states that are locked into one particular party) and corruption (hello Moscow Mitch).

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Checks and balances.
Checks and balances are a good thing. But the United States does not really seem to have that at this point in time. Instead, they have obstruction and enablers (both thanks to the Republican party).

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Also, the "United States" is at its core a union of states.
Which is irrelevant. It would still be a union of states, even if they adjusted the rules to redistribute the senate seats.

The idea that "all states must be equal" is a nice philosophical idea, but it would be foolish to stick to the idea that "they must all have equal senate representation" if that idea is failing in practice.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 23, 2020, 01:38:06 pm
That's correct but it's not a system that is working very well. It's hard to imagine how they could fix it without just throwing it out and turning to a parliamentary system.
I don't know if they would have to completely throw it out. There are a couple of things that could be done:

- Make Puerto Rico (and maybe Washington D.C.) a state... this will make sure certain people who don't have full representation will have their concerns heard
- Adjust the distribution... Perhaps make sure each state gets between 1 and 3 seats, based on population (but with a formula that totals 100 senators). Voters in smaller states (like Wyoming) would still get a little bit more power than voters in California (so the smaller states wouldn't be "overrun"), but it would not be quite as lopsided as it is now. Granted, this would require a constitutional amendment (which would be a near impossible task), but then so would switching to a parliamentary system
- Modify the rules of the senate, and have them codified into law (or even the constitution) to prevent someone like Moscow Mitch from corrupting the system as he has. So, you would still have each state with 2 senators, but it would limit the dirty tricks they could pull
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 23, 2020, 01:51:35 pm
I don't know if they would have to completely throw it out. There are a couple of things that could be done:

- Make Puerto Rico (and maybe Washington D.C.) a state... this will make sure certain people who don't have full representation will have their concerns heard
- Adjust the distribution... Perhaps make sure each state gets between 1 and 3 seats, based on population (but with a formula that totals 100 senators). Voters in smaller states (like Wyoming) would still get a little bit more power than voters in California (so the smaller states wouldn't be "overrun"), but it would not be quite as lopsided as it is now. Granted, this would require a constitutional amendment (which would be a near impossible task), but then so would switching to a parliamentary system
- Modify the rules of the senate, and have them codified into law (or even the constitution) to prevent someone like Moscow Mitch from corrupting the system as he has. So, you would still have each state with 2 senators, but it would limit the dirty tricks they could pull

Thanks for your reply and your thoughts!

While your ideas of awarding bigger states more senators and deducting a senator from smaller states would be a step in the right direction to solving the problem, in my opinion it would only be a partial remedy. It would be impossible to afford equal representation by population by going to that mehod of a fix.
So it wouldn't be 'quite' as lopsided as it is but still lopsided.

They have a huge problem that's developed on fairness according to population and the union of the states isn't a factor that they will ever allow to be ignored.

I think it's just a question of how much destruction of democracy they can allow to take place before they're forced to change. It's such an enormous problem that it could be the cause of a total breakdown of their union of states.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 23, 2020, 02:03:03 pm
Quote
I don't know if they would have to completely throw it out. There are a couple of things that could be done:

- Make Puerto Rico (and maybe Washington D.C.) a state... this will make sure certain people who don't have full representation will have their concerns heard
- Adjust the distribution... Perhaps make sure each state gets between 1 and 3 seats, based on population (but with a formula that totals 100 senators). Voters in smaller states (like Wyoming) would still get a little bit more power than voters in California (so the smaller states wouldn't be "overrun"), but it would not be quite as lopsided as it is now. Granted, this would require a constitutional amendment (which would be a near impossible task), but then so would switching to a parliamentary system
- Modify the rules of the senate, and have them codified into law (or even the constitution) to prevent someone like Moscow Mitch from corrupting the system as he has. So, you would still have each state with 2 senators, but it would limit the dirty tricks they could pull
Thanks for your reply and your thoughts!

While your ideas of awarding bigger states more senators and deducting a senator from smaller states would be a step in the right direction to solving the problem, in my opinion it would only be a partial remedy. It would be impossible to afford equal representation by population by going to that mehod of a fix.
So it wouldn't be 'quite' as lopsided as it is but still lopsided.

They have a huge problem that's developed on fairness according to population and the union of the states isn't a factor that they will ever allow to be ignored.

I think it's just a question of how much destruction of democracy they can allow to take place before they're forced to change. It's such an enormous problem that it could be the cause of a total breakdown of their union of states.
Personally I don't think there is a problem with a little lopsidedness (such as my 1-3 senator redistribution method). I think a partial fix may be all that is needed.

After all, Canada also has riding boundaries that give more political power to rural ridings and its system seems to be functioning well enough.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 23, 2020, 02:22:29 pm
Thanks for your reply and your thoughts!

While your ideas of awarding bigger states more senators and deducting a senator from smaller states would be a step in the right direction to solving the problem, in my opinion it would only be a partial remedy. It would be impossible to afford equal representation by population by going to that mehod of a fix.
So it wouldn't be 'quite' as lopsided as it is but still lopsided.

They have a huge problem that's developed on fairness according to population and the union of the states isn't a factor that they will ever allow to be ignored.

I think it's just a question of how much destruction of democracy they can allow to take place before they're forced to change. It's such an enormous problem that it could be the cause of a total breakdown of their union of states.

Personally I don't think there is a problem with a little lopsidedness (such as my 1-3 senator redistribution method). I think a partial fix may be all that is needed.

After all, Canada also has riding boundaries that give more political power to rural ridings and its system seems to be functioning well enough.

You could be right that there's noting else possible.
But the problem could become so destructive that it tears their country apart.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 23, 2020, 02:33:06 pm
The parties will support whatever proposals favour their side.  This means we probably won't see any changes because one side will inevitably lose out.  Unless there's a super majority in the Senate and House and POTUS of all one party or whatever they need to make constitutional amendments.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 23, 2020, 02:43:48 pm
The parties will support whatever proposals favour their side.  This means we probably won't see any changes because one side will inevitably lose out.  Unless there's a super majority in the Senate and House and POTUS of all one party or whatever they need to make constitutional amendments.

And so any opinion on the negative effect that's destroying their country?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 23, 2020, 05:07:37 pm
And so any opinion on the negative effect that's destroying their country?

What's destroying the US is corrupt money in their politics. 

If they want to change the electoral college and the Senate formula or admit Puerto Rico etc that's fine, but if big money remains in the system it won't do much because both parties are paid off very handsomely by corporate interests. Bernie Sanders should be POTUS.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 23, 2020, 05:28:35 pm
Bidenís gaffe about ending the oil industry isnít going to go over well in battleground states.  His campaign is already playing clean up.  Bidenís gonna turn every state into running blackout California!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 23, 2020, 05:31:18 pm
Big fat Biden lie.  I didnít say I was against fracking!  Oops!
Even CNN says Trump was correct.
https://youtu.be/_om1n7lBMZ8
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 23, 2020, 06:43:18 pm
Big fat Biden lie.  I didnít say I was against fracking!  Oops!

uber-partisans like you struggle with context! Emphasis was either with a reference to 'federal lands'... or... in regard to longer-term transitioning.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 23, 2020, 08:18:45 pm
Quote
The Borat video is a complete fabrication. I was tucking in my shirt after taking off the recording equipment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Si-mROtAE&feature=emb_logo
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on October 23, 2020, 08:53:01 pm
What's destroying the US is corrupt money in their politics. 

If they want to change the electoral college and the Senate formula or admit Puerto Rico etc that's fine, but if big money remains in the system it won't do much because both parties are paid off very handsomely by corporate interests. Bernie Sanders should be POTUS.
The money at stake certainly isn't helping but lets face it the US screwed itself by getting way too full of its own exceptionalism. I mean we're talking about a nation in which millions of people earnestly believe the penning of their Constitution, like the bible, was the result of God Himself moving thru the people who penned it. And if religiosity wasn't enough much of the rest of the marketplace of ideas is saturated with the sort of cocked-up nonsense that would make the editors of the National Enquirer blush.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on October 23, 2020, 09:03:58 pm
uber-partisans like you struggle with context! Emphasis was either with a reference to 'federal lands'... or... in regard to longer-term transitioning.
He is being mealy-mouthed though - clearly and sadly, struggling against wanting to embrace and unabashedly declare that yes, fracking like most fossil fuels, has to go and the sooner the better.

It sucks to be on a planet where so much candy coating needs to be dispensed in the attempt to make progress against rage and stupidity.  I give us a 60-40 chance, maybe 70-30, of survival.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 24, 2020, 12:13:54 am
Bidenís gaffe about ending the oil industry isnít going to go over well in battleground states.
Really? Well, how about this...

From: https://www.axios.com/pennsylvania-fracking-poll-4e215784-4838-4120-b9f3-29147742f5fb.html
Fifty-two percent oppose fracking in a CBS News poll of registered voters in Pennsylvania, while 48% favor the oil-and-gas extraction method... 

Although the numbers are close, it looks like the majority of people in Pennsylvania are against Fracking. Seems to me that being on the side of the majority of voters is actually a smart political decision.
Quote
Bidenís gonna turn every state into running blackout California!
From: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/08/why-renewables-arent-reason-california-blackouts/
When blackouts rolled across California...some critics blamed the stateís heavy reliance on solar and wind energy....Many experts and leaders, including Steve Berberich, the president of the organization in charge of the stateís power grid, have firmly countered that claim....With appropriate planning, California can continue to expand its use of renewables and decrease its carbon emissions, the root cause of the heat wave that triggered the blackouts in the first place.
...
During the recent blackouts, some of these usually reliable sources were unexpectedly unavailable, for reasons that are still not fully clear.
Several gas plants that were supposed to provide power failed to operate.... The state was unable to import power from other states in the region...(because)  other states were facing their own energy shortfalls. Also, because of an ongoing drought, there was less water in the reservoirs that supply many of the hydroelectric plants.


So it looks like the more conventional energy sources (including natural gas, which is a fossil fuel last time I checked) were more to blame than "gee wiz, our solar and wind plants can't keep up".

Reliance on fossil fuels contributes to global warming, which both drives up demand (due to an increase in the demand for air conditioning) and reduces supply (by causing droughts that affect hydro production.) Switching to renewable energy (as well as nuclear) will reduce those problems, allowing the grid to cope better.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 24, 2020, 09:32:05 am
uber-partisans like you struggle with context! Emphasis was either with a reference to 'federal lands'... or... in regard to longer-term transitioning.
He hasnít added that context in the past.  Especially during the primary debates.  Olí lyin Biden got caught.  And his campaign is playing clean up.  Iran and Russia will definitely love his fracking ban though!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 24, 2020, 11:10:49 am
He hasnít added that context in the past.  Especially during the primary debates.  Olí lyin Biden got caught.  And his campaign is playing clean up.  Iran and Russia will definitely love his fracking ban though!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iqUYSb0bzk
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: WakeYouUp on October 24, 2020, 11:12:42 am
The director of FBI, Ray, was fired already and in the process of transferring his duty. The hard drives with the scandal of the Biden family were in the possession of the FBI but the should've-done-investigation didn't happen given the importance of this scandal.

Guiliani is the next director of the FBI and he will be the hero again to drain the swamp.

The swamp is so muddy that there are Democrats and Republicans involved in the bribery from the Chinese Communist Party. The insiders from the high ranking Chinese Communist Party leaked some important documents indicating some of the former presidents betrayed the USA.

The rise of Biden's connection to the CCP ( Chinese Communist Party)
https://gnews.org/446404/

Mark my word and verify it in about a month.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 24, 2020, 11:21:04 am
He is being mealy-mouthed though - clearly and sadly, struggling against wanting to embrace and unabashedly declare that yes, fracking like most fossil fuels, has to go and the sooner the better.

It sucks to be on a planet where so much candy coating needs to be dispensed in the attempt to make progress against rage and stupidity.  I give us a 60-40 chance, maybe 70-30, of survival.

yes! To watch the tight-rope antics is disheartening, but often, even then, the candy coating appeasements are purposely taken out-of-context for political gain... even with accompanying explanations and full transparency, talk of aiming for net-zero carbon emissions and/or reducing dependency on fossil-fuels over an extended time-frame, one's political opponents will purposely use related statements OutOfContext for political gain!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 24, 2020, 11:25:50 am
gnews

Mark my word and verify it in about a month.

(https://i.imgur.com/iXK3rw4.png)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 24, 2020, 11:31:04 am
Unfortunately clear headed isnít enough to make up for terrible policy.  Policy trumps personality.  All of you need to put on your big boy pants and start to realize that.  Donít get so triggered over stupid tweets and dumb jokes.
How anyone cheerleading for Trump wants to talk about policy is beyond me. Trump has no policy or plans of any kind--either that or he's utterly incapable of articulating them which is even worse. You don't want to go down the policy route in your grandstanding here.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on October 24, 2020, 12:35:18 pm
Trump has no policy or plans of any kind-

He's perpetually 2 weeks away from introducing a 'beautiful' healthcare system though.

#1 rule for snake oil salesmen: slam 'liberals' then make your pitch...  :D
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 24, 2020, 01:37:23 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/iXK3rw4.png)

Biden's actual words on fracking were quite innocent and rational in that he can legitimately say he was talking about fracking being a part of that which needs to be transitioned away from. It's weak for the Trumpers but it's probably the best they have.

In any case, a bit of careful thinking on the issue should tell us that it's too complicated for most Americans on what they are able to relate to as a political issue separate from AGW issues.

Not to suggest that we Canadians should really care which one of them becomes their president for the next 4. It's a crapshoot on both of them.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 24, 2020, 01:51:26 pm
I donít know why you guys like Biden so much.  Heís Chinaís b*tch and thatís the last thing we need the White House right now.

I can't speak for everybody, but for myself and I expect for most others, it's not that we like Biden that much, it's that Trump is a complete disaster.


I suspect that you yourself, Shady, don't actually think Trump is any good, you're just supporting him because he's what your "team" has at the moment.  The best thing for your "team" will be to start fresh after the election with somebody who isn't Trump.


 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: cybercoma on October 24, 2020, 02:29:34 pm
http://TrumpCovidPlan.com
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 24, 2020, 04:27:56 pm
I can't speak for everybody, but for myself and I expect for most others, it's not that we like Biden that much, it's that Trump is a complete disaster.


I suspect that you yourself, Shady, don't actually think Trump is any good, you're just supporting him because he's what your "team" has at the moment.  The best thing for your "team" will be to start fresh after the election with somebody who isn't Trump.


 -k
I support him based on policy.  Yes, Trump is a childish a-hole.  But on policy, Biden is wrong on too many things.  Policy trumps personality.  Trump has been anything but a disaster.  First president in 40 years to not start any new wars.  3 Mid East peace deals normalizing relations between Muslim countries and Israel.  Record unemployment, record black and hispanic unemployment.  Poverty rate dropped 4 straight years.  Wages increased in 2019 by the highest rate on record. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 24, 2020, 05:00:30 pm
I support him {Trump} based on policy.

what policies? Name them; policies that can have results associated with formal policy description with legislative attachment? Feel free to throw in any executive orders that give you a heart throb!

while you're doing that please direct me/us to the Trump Health Plan (that will replace the ACA) - you know, the one Trump has, for years now, been repeatedly saying is just weeks away from release. And the Trump Covid-19 federal plan... that one too, hey!

as Canadians, most of us just sit/watch from a distance - there's a reason you've been tagged as an American wannabe forevah!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 24, 2020, 05:13:08 pm
what policies? Name them; policies that can have results associated with formal policy description with legislative attachment? Feel free to throw in any executive orders that give you a heart throb!

while you're doing that please direct me/us to the Trump Health Plan (that will replace the ACA) - you know, the one Trump has, for years now, been repeatedly saying is just weeks away from release. And the Trump Covid-19 federal plan... that one too, hey!

as Canadians, most of us just sit/watch from a distance - there's a reason you've been tagged as an American wannabe forevah!
Yes, there is a lot of reflexive sheep think among Canadians.  Bidenís policies are a disaster.  Banning fracking.  Increased immigration.  Refusing to enforce existing immigration law.  Increased refugees.  Health care benefits for people in the country illegally.  Court packing.  A national minimum wage increase, treating all states and all businesses as if theyíre the same.  More foreign wars like the one concocted in Libya and a soft on China trade policy.  Just to name a few.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 24, 2020, 05:25:23 pm
Yes, there is a lot of reflexive sheep think among Canadians.  Bidenís policies are a disaster.  Banning fracking.  Increased immigration.  Refusing to enforce existing immigration law.  Increased refugees.  Health care benefits for people in the country illegally.  Court packing.  A national minimum wage increase, treating all states and all businesses as if theyíre the same.  More foreign wars like the one concocted in Libya and a soft on China trade policy.  Just to name a few.

rather than waste time challenging you on your "interpretations" of Biden policies, why did you shift there when I asked you to name Trump policies - you know, after you stated you support Trump based upon his policies! Here, again:

Quote
what {Trump} policies? Name them; policies that can have results associated with formal policy description with legislative attachment? Feel free to throw in any executive orders that give you a heart throb!

while you're doing that please direct me/us to the Trump Health Plan (that will replace the ACA) - you know, the one Trump has, for years now, been repeatedly saying is just weeks away from release. And the Trump Covid-19 federal plan... that one too, hey!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 24, 2020, 05:31:18 pm
Sure.  First president in 40 years to not start a new war.  Removing unnecessary burdensome economic regulations that hurt job growth and wage growth.  A slowing down of immigration.  A slowing down of accepted refugees.  A foreign policy building peace deals and the normalization of relations among Israel and its neighbours.  An all of the above energy policy including fracking and natural gas.  Continued prison reform.  Policies that have seen wealth repatriated back to America.  Enforcing existing immigration law.  Just to name a few.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 24, 2020, 05:55:58 pm
Sure.  First president in 40 years to not start a new war.  Removing unnecessary burdensome economic regulations that hurt job growth and wage growth.  A slowing down of immigration.  A slowing down of accepted refugees.  A foreign policy building peace deals and the normalization of relations among Israel and its neighbours.  An all of the above energy policy including fracking and natural gas.  Continued prison reform.  Policies that have seen wealth repatriated back to America.  Enforcing existing immigration law.  Just to name a few.

and the formal policies associated to each? With emphasis on legislation - what legislation can you point to that reflects upon your perceived Trump policies?

for shytes & giggles, just your first one: in terms of starting a war, the U.S. Congress does that... how many years since that happened? Perhaps you're confused with all that U.S. President initiated military action against other nations; like when, for example, Trumpy sent U.S. troops into Syria. But hey now, don't forget about Trump using the military internally - domestically! Do you include those examples?

the saving grace has been the long-standing revelation that Trump doesn't take/read his daily intelligence briefings - like he has said many times, "he knows more than his Generals"!

and then we have Trump denigrating the military, repeatedly! What kind of a moran calls fallen U.S. military, "losers & suckers"?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rB3TDuxLRKw/hqdefault.jpg)

as for your emphasis on exec orders - those are so easily dispatched by the next guy in! How will Trumpkins survive when a Democratic President reverses them, hey!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 24, 2020, 09:00:23 pm
Breaking news!  Hunter Biden sex tape released by Chinaís GTV.  Bidenís smoking crack and having sex with an underage girl!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 24, 2020, 09:09:16 pm
Breaking news!  Hunter Biden sex tape released by Chinaís GTV.  Bidenís smoking crack and having sex with an underage girl!

I swear, Hunter is going to need to drop out soon.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on October 24, 2020, 09:18:31 pm
Sure.  First president in 40 years to not start a new war. 

I've seen this posted before.

What 'wars' did LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Obama 'start' though ? 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 24, 2020, 09:21:55 pm
Breaking news!  Hunter Biden sex tape released by Chinaís GTV.  Bidenís smoking crack and having sex with an underage girl!

Even if the stories about Hunter Biden were true, it's quite a testament to Joe Biden that after 48 years in politics, they can't find a bad thing to say about his character. The absolute worst thing these shitstains can say is that his one remaining son, for whom he always made time by taking the train home every night from Washington, may have made some bad choices. 
But that is such a poorly done fake that even the half-wit Trumpers don't really believe it. They just want **** to throw and Biden doesn't give them any.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on October 24, 2020, 09:28:06 pm
Hunter Biden sex tape... ffs... The Rudy sex tape was enough...
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 24, 2020, 10:03:05 pm
Joe Biden was working to frame General Flynn and Mike Flynn Jr for a bogus FARA violation as Joe Biden was protecting Hunter Biden from a real FARA violation they were getting rich off of.  Thatís really the crux of it.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 24, 2020, 10:08:10 pm
Biden brags about his voter fraud organization.

https://youtu.be/MA8a2g6tTp0
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 24, 2020, 10:13:17 pm
Are you this dumb in real life, or do you just play an idiot here?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 25, 2020, 08:24:51 am
Tony Bobulinski Held presser. Here's the link

https://youtu.be/EqeO0ODwYCA

both the Wall Street Journal's News Division and... a Fox News 'correspondent' (no less) found there is no there... there --- no role/involvement of Joe Biden

(https://i.imgur.com/tMJeBu5.png)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 25, 2020, 11:22:54 am
Breaking news!  Hunter Biden sex tape released by Chinaís GTV.  Bidenís smoking crack and having sex with an underage girl!

I didn't know the Bidens partied like that! High  energy!  That would make me more likely to vote Biden, not less! 

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 25, 2020, 11:46:31 am
I didn't know the Bidens partied like that! High  energy!  That would make me more likely to vote Biden, not less! 

 -k
Kimmy endorses pedophilia in 2020!  Because orange man bad!  Lol.  Those Joe Biden kickbacks canít hurt whither huh!?  #Trump-Lite err #Biden-Lite
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 25, 2020, 12:25:29 pm
The upside of this clusterfuk is in more people learning how corrupt all US politicians really are. No Canadian should be defending any of them.

On US foreign relations and how they will effect the rest of the world, does it really make any difference which one of them wins?

Seriously?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 25, 2020, 12:32:52 pm
The upside of this clusterfuk is in more people learning how corrupt all US politicians really are. No Canadian should be defending any of them.

On US foreign relations and how they will effect the rest of the world, does it really make any difference which one of them wins?

Seriously?
No Canadian should be defending them because our prime minister is even more corrupt.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 25, 2020, 12:54:55 pm
No Canadian should be defending them because our prime minister is even more corrupt.

Corruption becomes acceptable with the Liberal party when the bigger picture is what's at stake with a Conservative government. I'm just honest enough to lay my political posturing aside and admit to reality.

Fortunately for us Shady, the Conservatives don't have an agenda that can't be easily hijacked by the Liberals to make it their own. What would the Conservatives be left with?

What are the talking points of your agenda as a Conservative supporter? Maybe we don't have any room for disagreement?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 25, 2020, 03:16:04 pm
Kimmy endorses pedophilia in 2020!  Because orange man bad!  Lol.  Those Joe Biden kickbacks canít hurt whither huh!?  #Trump-Lite err #Biden-Lite

On second thought you're right, this sex tape thing is very bad. No one should vote for Hunter Biden to be President.

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 25, 2020, 03:37:20 pm
On second thought you're right, this sex tape thing is very bad. No one should vote for Hunter Biden to be President.

 -k
Or his father.  The family is completely compromised and susceptible to blackmail.  Everything thought about the Trump family.  Biden selling access for kickbacks through his degenerate son is just the icing on the cake.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 25, 2020, 03:52:24 pm
Or his father.  The family is completely compromised and susceptible to blackmail.  Everything thought about the Trump family.  Biden selling access for kickbacks through his degenerate son is just the icing on the cake.

I don't think you realize that no one is laughing with you.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 25, 2020, 04:11:19 pm
I don't think you realize that no one is laughing with you.
Itís not a laughing matter.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 25, 2020, 04:20:51 pm
Or his father.  The family is completely compromised and susceptible to blackmail.  Everything thought about the Trump family.  Biden selling access for kickbacks through his degenerate son is just the icing on the cake.

You don't think the trump family is susceptible to blackmail? Trump mentioned a while back he may leave the country if he loses. I suppose that's his "grown up" way of peeing in his pants or stamping his feet when he doesn't get his own way.. I suspect the courts will stop him from leaving if he loses until he answers outstanding charges. Joe may not be perfect but he's clearly a few steps above the current misogynist, narcissist, racist they currently have as "leader"
 
https://www.vox.com/2020/10/21/21525326/trump-family-hunter-biden-corruption-explained
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 25, 2020, 04:32:43 pm
Itís not a laughing matter.

If you actually believe the things that you post, you're the laughing matter.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 25, 2020, 05:31:44 pm
You don't think the trump family is susceptible to blackmail? Trump mentioned a while back he may leave the country if he loses. I suppose that's his "grown up" way of peeing in his pants or stamping his feet when he doesn't get his own way.. I suspect the courts will stop him from leaving if he loses until he answers outstanding charges. Joe may not be perfect but he's clearly a few steps above the current misogynist, narcissist, racist they currently have as "leader"
 
https://www.vox.com/2020/10/21/21525326/trump-family-hunter-biden-corruption-explained
Not really.  Heís a nicer person, with a better personality.  But his policies are terrible.  And heís been using his position of power to enrich his family for years. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 25, 2020, 07:08:31 pm
Those Joe Biden kickbacks canít hurt whither huh!?
You should care because the ďbig guyĒ was getting kickbacks.
Biden selling access for kickbacks through his degenerate son is just the icing on the cake.

- and your evidence for your Trumpian claims porkies?

(https://i.imgur.com/ty7Ucuf.jpg)

member shady, waddabout that Senate Republican inquiry that found, "No Evidence of Wrongdoing by Biden"? Waddabout that, hey!

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on October 25, 2020, 08:41:31 pm
So polling aggregates now show sleepy Joe ahead in Texas, Georgia, Ohio, and Maine 2, and have Missouri as a tossup slightly in favour of the GOP. This is going to be a blowout of epic proportions. Trump wants to know who won by the end of election day. Pretty clear that he'll get his wish.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 25, 2020, 09:47:11 pm
Kimmy endorses pedophilia in 2020!  Because orange man bad!  Lol.
"Iíve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. Heís a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side"
- Donald J. Trump

Seems like if anyone is endorsing pedophilia, its those people who actually support Stubby McBonespurs.

Oh, and just in case you think "it all happened before he became president"....

In 2017, Trump pardoned former Sherriff Joe Arpaio. One of the many faults of Arpaio (in addition to the whole racism thing, multiple lawsuits for wrongful death and entrapment, and misspending of government money), is the fact that Arpaio failed to investigate multiple cases of sexual assault against children.

And Trump pardoned him.

These are real events for which there is actual hard evidence.

The whole "Biden assaulted children" is basically an empty claim without any sort of real evidence. (And no, Rudy Guilliani saying it does not make it so.)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 25, 2020, 10:25:56 pm
Or his father.  The family is completely compromised and susceptible to blackmail.  Everything thought about the Trump family.  Biden selling access for kickbacks through his degenerate son is just the icing on the cake.

Nobody is taking this laptop thing seriously because it just reeks of being a desperate stunt.  It's so obviously Team Trump shenanigans that it's not even worth paying attention to.

Rudy's story about how he acquired the data is a joke. The whole story is too dumb to believe.  Rudy himself is a joke.  If they wanted people to take it seriously, they should have laundered it through somebody else instead of having it come straight from Rudy, because it's impossible to take anything Rudy is involved in seriously.

And, one of the side effects of the Trump presidency is that people are just numb to scandal at this point. People are bored of it. After almost 4 years of stumbling from one scandal to the next, they can't be surprised that people aren't up in arms over this laptop thing.

And, telling people "Biden is corrupt, better vote for Trump!" is about as compelling as "Biden is creepy, better vote for Trump!" or "Biden isn't as sharp as he used to be, better vote for Trump!"  Nobody who is actually concerned about corruption would vote Trump over Biden, anymore than anybody who is actually concerned about mental deterioration would vote Trump over Biden, or anybody who is concerned about respect for women would vote Trump over Biden.

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 25, 2020, 11:22:08 pm
.


  Nobody who is actually concerned about corruption would vote Trump over Biden, anymore than anybody who is actually concerned about mental deterioration would vote Trump over Biden, or anybody who is concerned about respect for women would vote Trump over Biden.

 -k
Hey we know trump respects women, he told us so back when when he mentioned how he would "grab 'em by the **** because they think you're a star" Mental deterioration and corruption are issues that seem to expand day by day.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 26, 2020, 10:09:28 am
Biden canít even remember who heís running against!  Dementia/Harris 2020

https://youtu.be/aAR8OAOdzr4
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 26, 2020, 10:23:32 am
Biden canít even remember who heís running against!  Dementia/Harris 2020

https://youtu.be/aAR8OAOdzr4
Donald Trump, when asked what his second term plans are:
"One of the things that will be really great -- the word experience is still good, I always say talent is more important than experience, I've always said that -- but the word experience is a very important word, a very important meaning. I never did this before, never slept over in Washington. I was in Washington maybe 17 times and all of a sudden I'm the president of the United States, you know the story, riding down Pennsylvania Avenue with our first lady and I say this is great but I didn't know very many people in Washington, it wasn't my thing. I was from Manhattan, from New York, and now I know everybody. And I have great people in the administration. You make some mistakes, like an idiot like Bolton, you don't have to drop bombs on everybody."
Notice what's missing... anything related to his plans for a second term.

Trump about David Duke:
"I don't know anything about David Duke."
Claims he doesn't know Duke, despite the fact that he had previously talked about him years earlier. Forgetful much?

Trump on his family:
ďMy father is German. Right? Was German. And born in a very wonderful place in Germany.Ē
His father was born in New York. Mixing up family relationships can be a sign of dementia.

Trump on the Mueller report:
ďI hope they now go and take a  look at the oranges, the oranges of that investigation, the beginnings of that investigation."
The substitution of words is common among people who are suffering from dimentia.

I could go on and on and on... But the fact is, for every little gaffe that Biden might make, you can probably find Trump making even worse mistakes.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/04/09/does-donald-trump-have-dementia-we-need-know-psychologist-column/3404007002/

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 26, 2020, 10:30:30 am
c'mon member Shady! Setting aside the 'why' Trump took a "dementia test" (Montreal Cognitive Assessment test), he was so proud to have, supposedly, passed it!  ;D

Quote from: U.S. President, Donald J. Trump
person, woman, man, camera, tv

(https://claytoonz.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/cjones07272020.jpg?w=620)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 26, 2020, 10:35:43 am
c'mon member Shady! Setting aside the 'why' Trump took a "dementia test" (Montreal Cognitive Assessment test), he was so proud to have, supposedly, passed it!  ;D

(https://claytoonz.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/cjones07272020.jpg?w=620)
Biden canít even do that!  LOL!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 26, 2020, 10:36:47 am
Donald Trump, when asked what his second term plans are:
"One of the things that will be really great -- the word experience is still good, I always say talent is more important than experience, I've always said that -- but the word experience is a very important word, a very important meaning. I never did this before, never slept over in Washington. I was in Washington maybe 17 times and all of a sudden I'm the president of the United States, you know the story, riding down Pennsylvania Avenue with our first lady and I say this is great but I didn't know very many people in Washington, it wasn't my thing. I was from Manhattan, from New York, and now I know everybody. And I have great people in the administration. You make some mistakes, like an idiot like Bolton, you don't have to drop bombs on everybody."
Notice what's missing... anything related to his plans for a second term.

Trump about David Duke:
"I don't know anything about David Duke."
Claims he doesn't know Duke, despite the fact that he had previously talked about him years earlier. Forgetful much?

Trump on his family:
ďMy father is German. Right? Was German. And born in a very wonderful place in Germany.Ē
His father was born in New York. Mixing up family relationships can be a sign of dementia.

Trump on the Mueller report:
ďI hope they now go and take a  look at the oranges, the oranges of that investigation, the beginnings of that investigation."
The substitution of words is common among people who are suffering from dimentia.

I could go on and on and on... But the fact is, for every little gaffe that Biden might make, you can probably find Trump making even worse mistakes.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/04/09/does-donald-trump-have-dementia-we-need-know-psychologist-column/3404007002/
You should look into Bidenís history of plagiarism and compulsive lying.  Decades long.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 26, 2020, 10:48:46 am
c'mon member Shady! Setting aside the 'why' Trump took a "dementia test" (Montreal Cognitive Assessment test), he was so proud to have, supposedly, passed it!  ;D
A little bit more about Trump's test...

From: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/01/22/trump-behavior-raises-questions-medical-exam-didnt-answer-gartner-reiss-buser-column/1052290001/
The MoCA is an excellent basic screen for dementia, but it comes with an error rate. In a study comparing its detection of cognitive impairments among stroke patients, the MoCA misses brain problems about one in five times....a perfect MoCA score is entirely compatible with significant cognitive decline...You can score 30/30 on these basic tests, but still be mentally declining ó so-called pre-dementia.
...
And of course, we have not ruled out psychiatric illness because Jackson refuses to refer his patient for a psychiatric evaluation.

The article also points out other red flags that point to Trump suffering from mental decline, including:
- Declining complexity of thought, rambling speech (See my example about when Trump was asked for his second term plans)
- Markedly declining vocabulary over recent years, with over reliance on superlatives (lots of use of 'Great' when he talks.)
- Episodes of slurred speech (His now famous 'united states of amerrisha')
- Failure to recognize old friends (this was documented when Trump was on vacation at Mar-a-lago)
- Difficulties reading, listening and comprehending (Just witness what happens when Trump tries to read from a teleprompter.)
- Suspect judgment, planning, problem solving, and impulse control (Trump appears to be very easy to trigger)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 26, 2020, 11:36:28 am
You should look into Bidenís history of plagiarism and compulsive lying.  Decades long.
Note that your response had absolutely nothing to do with the topic you yourself brought up.

You made a posting (with laughable evidence) that Biden was showing mental decline. When presented with evidence showing that of the 2 politicians, it is Trump that is exhibiting the most significant signs of mental decline, you proceed to make other idiotic suggestions.

Which I guess is typical. Since Trump is indefensible, his fan boys resort to baseless attacks, and when those attacks are debunked (which they are because of how laughably stupid they are) they then go on to yet another baseless attack, in the hope that something sticks.
Quote
You should look into Bidenís history of plagiarism
Ah yes, that accusation.

The claim stems from a particular speech where Biden quoted British politician Neil Kinnock. Now, Biden had done so during many other speeches, and he always attributed the quotes to Kinnock. But in one speech he realized too late that he failed to give the proper attribution. So, the MAGAchuds want us to ignore the many times he said "this was from Kinnock" and concentrate on the one time he failed to do so. Even Kinnock (the guy that Biden supposedly stole from) considers Biden to be an honest man.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/07/neil-kinnock-joe-biden-1987-scandal
Quote
and compulsive lying.
Much like the dementia thing, this is a case where the MAGAchud are suggesting Biden is bad, while ignoring the fact that Trump is worse.

According to Politifact, Biden has 36 statements that were considered either false, or outright pants on fire. Trump on the other hand has 464, more than 10 times the number.

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/joe-biden/
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

Nobody likes the fact that Politicians lie. But concentrating on the relatively small number of Biden's lies when compared to the number of Trump lies is foolish.

Now my prediction... you will probably ignore all this, and if you respond at all it will probably involve yet more random, scattergun accusations.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 26, 2020, 11:45:15 am
In the first debate, Trump attributed quotes Hillary made to Biden.
My favourite, though, is when he called 9/11 "711".
If slips are the tongue are all the Trumpers have to run against, Trump loses there too.  :D
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 26, 2020, 11:53:03 am
Biden canít even remember who heís running against!  Dementia/Harris 2020

https://youtu.be/aAR8OAOdzr4

You should listen to your buddy Donny a little more. If you do you'll find he's got Biden beat for dementia by a long shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5axgsXtwHMc
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 26, 2020, 12:16:27 pm
It's all good fun but I would feel better if Biden didn't look so weak and somewhat confused when speaking. Although frankly speaking I don't think it makes much difference to the rest of the world regarding US foreign policy.

I just wish that Canadians on this site would stop playing US politics so much. It's not our issue in a direct way and so being objective about the whole mess could be more enlightening for this board.

Personally, I have to admit that the most exciting thing about it for me is in the violence that will start if Trump loses. That country needs to somehow bring about very big change for the sake of it being safer for the world if it can become a normal democracy again. Violence and a lot of blood in the streets is probably a necessary part of doing that.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 26, 2020, 12:20:26 pm
In the first debate, Trump attributed quotes Hillary made to Biden.
My favourite, though, is when he called 9/11 "711".
If slips are the tongue are all the Trumpers have to run against, Trump loses there too.  :D
Tromp does a thousand times more interviews and campaign events.  Biden makes gaffes doing a tiny fraction of what Trump does.  Keep making excuses Biden cult, itís very entertaining!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 26, 2020, 12:23:38 pm
It's all good fun but I would feel better if Biden didn't look so weak and somewhat confused when speaking.
That may be due to the stutter he had when he was younger.

Apparently you can correct the stutter in some cases, but there are still some lingering effects on the brain, including the occasional verbal gaffe (like searching for a word). It doesn't mean he is in mental decline, since it is something he has dealt with throughout his life.

Frankly I think in this election it may have helped him... Democrats have managed to steal away some senior voters from Trump (and they are often the most reliable demographic). Part of that may be because, well, Biden is "one of them".
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 26, 2020, 12:27:43 pm
Tromp does a thousand times more interviews and campaign events.  Biden makes gaffes doing a tiny fraction of what Trump does.  Keep making excuses Biden cult, itís very entertaining!

Trump is a far better speaker than Biden, but one would need to ignore the content in Trump's words in order to judge him somehow a better choice than Biden.

Still, there is the antiwar factor that is far more important to Canadians and the rest of the world than is their domestic politics.
It's a toss up and I won't lose any sleep if Trump wins. In fact, more important is the gun violence that is inevitable with a Trump loss.

Violence with their guns is the only way that country is going to start to return to a normal democracy.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 26, 2020, 12:29:27 pm
Tromp does a thousand times more interviews and campaign events.  Biden makes gaffes doing a tiny fraction of what Trump does.  Keep making excuses Biden cult, itís very entertaining!

Trump may be running around a little more of late because he sees the polls and knows he's getting his ass kicked. What is entertaining, and a little scary, is how the trump cult accepts his obvious lies that appear constantly.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 26, 2020, 12:31:05 pm
That may be due to the stutter he had when he was younger.

Apparently you can correct the stutter in some cases, but there are still some lingering effects on the brain, including the occasional verbal gaffe (like searching for a word). It doesn't mean he is in mental decline, since it is something he has dealt with throughout his life.

Frankly I think in this election it may have helped him... Democrats have managed to steal away some senior voters from Trump (and they are often the most reliable demographic). Part of that may be because, well, Biden is "one of them".

I agree that it may not be mental decline, but whatever it is it doesn't look good for portraying strength and decisiveness.

None of us on this board are making any difference in the least by promoting one or the other. With that in mind, if possible, maybe being more objective would make these political conversations more interesting?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 26, 2020, 12:33:19 pm
Trump may be running around a little more of late because he sees the polls and knows he's getting his ass kicked. What is entertaining, and a little scary, is how the trump cult accepts his obvious lies that appear constantly.

On a realistic note, a Trump win is going to be anticlimatic and a huge letdown because the Biden supporters aren't naturally inclined to start deadly violence in the streets.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 26, 2020, 12:41:00 pm
On a realistic note, a Trump win is going to be anticlimatic and a huge letdown because the Biden supporters aren't naturally inclined to start deadly violence in the streets.

Well I guess on that note then there is at least a chance of a positive legacy for the Trump reign in that because he was reelected, he didn't start a street war. I guess we can always find a bit of a silver lining in any cloud. no matter how dark.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 26, 2020, 12:50:13 pm
Well I guess on that note then there is at least a chance of a positive legacy for the Trump reign in that because he was reelected, he didn't start a street war. I guess we can always find a bit of a silver lining in any cloud. no matter how dark.

If you think dreaming up that kind of scenario is productive?
I've already said several times that I'm really not convinced which one of them will be the best choice for foreign policy. I think a lot of Canadians have got themselves wrapped up int their domestic politics and are ignoring the possibilities of the US turning to more aggressive foreign policy with a Biden win. A daily visit to RT.com and antiwar.com would be enlightening for many people on this board.

If they found mostly lies they would at least become aware of how the lies are slanted by the US.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 26, 2020, 12:51:06 pm
Sniping at Biden is dumb, these "scandals" are boring.  It would be nice to talk about policies.  Imagine that.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 26, 2020, 12:55:10 pm
Biden is up 5 points in national poll averages over Clinton in 2016 at this same date before the election, that's a lot.  Only up on Clinton by 0.4% in top battleground states though.  Polls underestimated Trump in last election though, guess we'll see.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 26, 2020, 01:05:22 pm
Sniping at Biden is dumb, these "scandals" are boring.  It would be nice to talk about policies.  Imagine that.

Being realistic about Biden's deficiency on the soapbox isn't sniping at him. How about coming to the conclusion that none of the comments made on this board are going to make one bit of difference. That would allow everybody to be a lot more objective on what's truthful.

How vain of some people to think they're doing useful work for their chosen candidate!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 26, 2020, 01:14:09 pm
I've already said several times that I'm really not convinced which one of them will be the best choice for foreign policy. I think a lot of Canadians have got themselves wrapped up int their domestic politics and are ignoring the possibilities of the US turning to more aggressive foreign policy with a Biden win.
Ummm... why? The Democrats have never been particularly militaristic. During Obama's tenure, the U.S. was involved in Libya, but the U.S. didn't initiate it, and was just acting in response to an ongoing problem.

Plus, Democrats are likely to spend more on things like foreign aid and other elements of 'soft power', that tends to decrease the chance of international conflict.

While Trump hasn't engaged in any new military conflicts, that seems to be more due to luck than anything else. (And remember, the number of drone strikes has greatly increased under Trump, while at the same time oversight has decreased. Not a good combination.)

See: https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers

Quote
A daily visit to RT.com and antiwar.com would be enlightening for many people on this board.
Why? RT is known as a site that combines a pro-russia bias with conspiracy theories.  Antiwar is a little bit more sane, but they still have a strong libertarian bias.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/rt-news/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/anti-war/
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 26, 2020, 01:20:15 pm
Biden is up 5 points in national poll averages over Clinton in 2016 at this same date before the election, that's a lot.  Only up on Clinton by 0.4% in top battleground states though.  Polls underestimated Trump in last election though, guess we'll see.
Well, if it means anything, recent polling (just released today) shows that Biden is leading in the 3 main battleground states (Mich, Wisc, Pen.) up between 8 and 10 points, depending on the state. His lead in all 3 states has increased from a poll by the same organization a month ago.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/522718-biden-stretches-lead-over-trump-in-mich-wis-and-penn-poll
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 26, 2020, 01:26:37 pm
Sniping at Biden is dumb, these "scandals" are boring.  It would be nice to talk about policies.  Imagine that.
Yes it would be.

The problem is, the republicans don't really have any policies of note, and the ones they do tend to be either very unpopular (hey, lets lock kids in cages and give tax beaks to millionaires!) or lacking in substance (I will protect preexisting conditions! How? Well, I don't know... I just will.)

So, about republicans can do is snipe at Biden, and since Biden has no real major scandals, they have to basically manufacture them.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 26, 2020, 02:21:25 pm
Ummm... why? The Democrats have never been particularly militaristic. During Obama's tenure, the U.S. was involved in Libya, but the U.S. didn't initiate it, and was just acting in response to an ongoing problem.

Plus, Democrats are likely to spend more on things like foreign aid and other elements of 'soft power', that tends to decrease the chance of international conflict.

While Trump hasn't engaged in any new military conflicts, that seems to be more due to luck than anything else. (And remember, the number of drone strikes has greatly increased under Trump, while at the same time oversight has decreased. Not a good combination.)

See: https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers
Why? RT is known as a site that combines a pro-russia bias with conspiracy theories.  Antiwar is a little bit more sane, but they still have a strong libertarian bias.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/rt-news/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/anti-war/

Both antiwar.com and RT.com tell you how pro-Trump they both are. Then with RT.com you would be able to reason why they are pro-Trump. It's in their foreign policy interests of course!

As to antiwar.com they're less concerned now about antiwar interests than they're concerned with their libertarian rightist interests. But some at that site still believe that the antiwar cause is better served with Trump.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 26, 2020, 02:26:54 pm
Yes it would be.

The problem is, the republicans don't really have any policies of note, and the ones they do tend to be either very unpopular (hey, lets lock kids in cages and give tax beaks to millionaires!) or lacking in substance (I will protect preexisting conditions! How? Well, I don't know... I just will.)

So, about republicans can do is snipe at Biden, and since Biden has no real major scandals, they have to basically manufacture them.

Why do you think that locking children up in cages is not popular with Americans? You don't know that but you're making assumptions that could be based on human decency.

Locking children up in cages and separating them from their parents without keeping records was meant to scare the migrants so badly that they would give up trying.

Why would that be unpopular with Americans when at least the Trump supporters believe that the immigrants are to blame for their poverty?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 26, 2020, 02:28:43 pm
Both antiwar.com and RT.com tell you how pro-Trump they both are. Then with RT.com you would be able to reason why they are pro-Trump. It's in their foreign policy interests of course!

As to antiwar.com they're less concerned now about antiwar interests than they're concerned with their libertarian rightist interests. But some at that site still believe that the antiwar cause is better served with Trump.

You really need some better sources of information.  The conspiracy theory nonsense is kept alive by people like yourself.  You will believe their bullshit, if it suits your narrative.  Thatís not a good pathway to determining what is true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)#Airing_conspiracy_theories
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 26, 2020, 02:35:01 pm
You really need some better sources of information.  The conspiracy theory nonsense is kept alive by people like yourself.  You will believe their bullshit, if it suits your narrative.  Thatís not a good pathway to determining what is true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)#Airing_conspiracy_theories

What conspiracy theory do you think I'm pushing? Both of those sites are pushing for Trump. I haven't even offered an explanation for why that is yet!
Those two aren't the only sources of my information, they are just included as sources. I visit Commondreams.org and Breitbart.com too. And several others too but you could tell me of one you think I need to pay more attention to?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 26, 2020, 02:59:04 pm
Why do you think that locking children up in cages is not popular with Americans? You don't know that but you're making assumptions that could be based on human decency.

Why would that be unpopular with Americans when at least the Trump supporters believe that the immigrants are to blame for their poverty?
From: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/18/17475740/family-separation-poll-polling-border-trump-children-immigrant-families-parents
Two new polls find that the US government policy of separating children from their parents at the Mexican border is very unpopular with the general public... Sixty-six percent of voters...told Quinnipiac they opposed the policy...A poll conducted by Ipsos exclusively for the Daily Beast found similar results....Fifty-five percent of respondents stated they disagreed...while 27 percent agreed.

Now, admittedly there was more support for the policy among republicans, but the number who identify themselves as republican has been dropping steadily over the years. The public by and large rejects the family separation policy.

Quote
Why would that be unpopular with Americans when at least the Trump supporters believe that the immigrants are to blame for their poverty?
Many (perhaps even most) Trump supporters may favor locking children in cages, but again they don't make up a majority of voters in the country. (And even some Trump supporters think it goes too far... in one of the polls it wasn't even a majority of republicans who supported it.)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 26, 2020, 03:07:25 pm
From: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/18/17475740/family-separation-poll-polling-border-trump-children-immigrant-families-parents
Two new polls find that the US government policy of separating children from their parents at the Mexican border is very unpopular with the general public... Sixty-six percent of voters...told Quinnipiac they opposed the policy...A poll conducted by Ipsos exclusively for the Daily Beast found similar results....Fifty-five percent of respondents stated they disagreed...while 27 percent agreed.

Thanks for that poll results. Have you considered the implications of anyone saying that they would support the policy? Would you say you could support something as evil as that? For that reason I think your poll results aren't conclusive. If it's supported by some Republicans you can be sure that it's supported by as many Democrats. They're not D's and R's, they're Americans and that's the main point.

Quote
Now, admittedly there was more support for the policy among republicans, but the number who identify themselves as republican has been dropping steadily over the years. The public by and large rejects the family separation policy.
Many (perhaps even most) Trump supporters may favor locking children in cages, but again they don't make up a majority of voters in the country. (And even some Trump supporters think it goes too far... in one of the polls it wasn't even a majority of republicans who supported it.)

You're not  being a good judge of human nature but that could be because you aren't appreciating the reasoning behind Trump's methods of gaining support.

Hardly any Germans would have said they supported killing Jews in Nazi Germany of the 30's and 40's.

You can write me off as exaggerating for now but Trump wins we can revisit the question later.

This can become an instance in which a country isn't guilty for it's crimes against humanity for you!  Somewhat the same as the Iraq war!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 26, 2020, 03:27:34 pm
What conspiracy theory do you think I'm pushing? Both of those sites are pushing for Trump. I haven't even offered an explanation for why that is yet!

I was commenting on you pushing RT as a source of information.  Itís not.  Itís a source of conspiracy theory bullshit pedalled by Russians.  The fact that they may have posted an article you agree with doesnít change that fact.

Quote
Those two aren't the only sources of my information, they are just included as sources. I visit Commondreams.org and Breitbart.com too. And several others too but you could tell me of one you think I need to pay more attention to?

You visit many shitty sites that are more disinformation than information...   congratulations, I guess. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 26, 2020, 03:38:08 pm
This bullshit McCarthyism needs to stop.  You people are obsessed with nonsense.  Itís like an automatic crutch.  You see it everywhere, no matter what.[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 26, 2020, 04:04:34 pm
This bullshit McCarthyism needs to stop.  You people are obsessed with nonsense.  Itís like an automatic crutch.  You see it everywhere, no matter what. (Attachment Link)

Let me give you a brief description as to the difference between McCarthyism. and what's happening now: the former were a bunch of accusations without evidence.
Get it?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 26, 2020, 05:39:52 pm
Biden canít even remember who heís running against!  Dementia/Harris 2020

https://youtu.be/aAR8OAOdzr4
Turns out you're wrong again, as he was talking to George Lopez and he stutters. How humiliating for you.  :D
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 26, 2020, 08:08:26 pm
Turns out you're wrong again, as he was talking to George Lopez and he stutters. How humiliating for you.  :D
That excuse doesnít make sense.  4 more years of George Lopez?  You Biden cult people are hilarious!  Twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend Dementia Joe.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 26, 2020, 11:29:00 pm
That excuse doesnít make sense.  4 more years of George Lopez?  You Biden cult people are hilarious!  Twisting yourselves into pretzels to defend Dementia Joe.

 ďYou look at countries, Austria, you look at so many countries. They live in the forest, theyíre considered forest cities. So many of them. And they donít have fires like this. And they have more explosive trees.Ē
  -Donald Trump


Hey look, it's the Fruit Friends, Tim Apple and Donnie Orange!
(https://i.imgur.com/F2dulS2.png)

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 26, 2020, 11:57:05 pm
Dementia Joe.

DementiaDon (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1305645981279625216/pu/vid/404x720/LsmzdB-DqGtJ_hej.mp4?tag=10)... or... people are saying it could be untreated STDs given all the hookers and **** stars Trumpy has availed himself of!

(https://i.imgur.com/aIArkUZ.png)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 27, 2020, 12:56:16 pm
DementiaDon (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1305645981279625216/pu/vid/404x720/LsmzdB-DqGtJ_hej.mp4?tag=10)... or... people are saying it could be untreated STDs given all the hookers and **** stars Trumpy has availed himself of!

(https://i.imgur.com/aIArkUZ.png)

I think we can agree that there's a lot of trouble ahead for the US if they choose Trump. For just one example, is it beyond possibilities that Biden and many other political opponents of Trump could be arrested? Seriously, is it?
That's an effort to address America's domestic policy under a Trump regime.

But on US foreign policy, are you convinced that Trump wouldn't be a good choice?
I'm not convinced but I don't mind saying that I'm very pro-China and pro-Russia and I have good reasons for being so.
40 US wars of aggression since the end of WW2 alone!
Russia isn't coming and never was! And certainly China has never shown any proclivity toward military aggression.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on October 27, 2020, 03:20:40 pm
But on US foreign policy, are you convinced that Trump wouldn't be a good choice?
As a Canadian, I'd have to say Trump is a pretty bad choice.

His trade wars are harming countries (like Canada) that are supposed to be allies. (They are also harming the U.S. too...) His cutbacks in various forms of 'soft power' increases the possibility of future conflicts. His cutbacks on programs that deal with disease prevention mean an increased chance of future pandemics. And his attempts to withdraw troops from parts of the middle east lead to a flareup that displaced thousands of people (not exactly a canada-specific problem but still one that should be of concern.)

The U.S. is no longer a trustworthy ally, and countries can expect that even if they come to some agreement with the U.S., it might not be honored.

Quote
I'm not convinced but I don't mind saying that I'm very pro-China and pro-Russia and I have good reasons for being so.
Well, Russia and China do benefit from having Trump around. Trump is Putin's puppet, and  his general screw-ups have left a power vacuum that China and Russia are very eager to fill.

However, what benefits China and/or Russia does not necessarily benefit Canada (or the U.S. for that matter).
Quote
40 US wars of aggression since the end of WW2 alone!
Ummm... so?

First of all, wars are not the only thing that can be a problem for the world. Widespread famine, diseases, abusive dictatorships, environmental problems, etc. can often cause just as much death as your average war. And lets face it, Trump's record on these is not exactly favorable.

Secondly, the fact that Trump has not engaged in any armed conflict does not make him any better at Biden. After all, he Obama/Biden administration was not particularly militaristic, and I doubt that Biden would suddenly decide to start dropping bombs on random countries. (I could also point out that while Trump hasn't started any wars, under his administration Drone strikes have increased, and oversight has decreased compared to the Obama administration.... not a good combination in my opinion.)

The fact that there hasn't been a war break out in the past 4 years probably has more to do with luck than anything.
 
I would also be curious what you consider a "war of aggression". Something like Gulf War 2 could certainly be classified as such... But what about Afghanistan? (I'm sure most people would consider it justified given that the U.S. was attacked from people operating from there.) How about Libya? (The U.S. did engage in bombing there, but the U.S. were certainly not the instigators.) Or are you assuming that any war the U.S. fights in is automatically a "war of aggression", regardless of the underlying context?

Quote
Russia isn't coming and never was!
Russia may not be a threat in the way of "Large scale invasion/occupation". But that does not mean that they are not a problem....

They certainly have used their military against neighboring countries.... Afghanistan (back when i was the USSR), Ukraine, etc. And even if they are not a military threat, they certainly have disrupted other countries in other ways.... such as interfering in various elections (most famously the U.S. 2016/2020 elections, but also possibly the 2017 french election, the 2014 Ukraine election, and possibly Brexit)

Russia should not be considered an ally, nor a country that should be trusted.
Quote

And certainly China has never shown any proclivity toward military aggression.
While I don't think China would have any interest in a large-scale war against the U.S., they may decide to flex their muscles and act against Taiwan, or expand their sphere of influence in south east asia. And they have had their recent skirmishes with India. They have used a lot of resources to build their own stealth jets (with data that had been stolen from the F35 program, part of which Canada funded.)

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 27, 2020, 03:42:19 pm
As a Canadian, I'd have to say Trump is a pretty bad choice.

His trade wars are harming countries (like Canada) that are supposed to be allies. (They are also harming the U.S. too...) His cutbacks in various forms of 'soft power' increases the possibility of future conflicts. His cutbacks on programs that deal with disease prevention mean an increased chance of future pandemics. And his attempts to withdraw troops from parts of the middle east lead to a flareup that displaced thousands of people (not exactly a canada-specific problem but still one that should be of concern.)

The U.S. is no longer a trustworthy ally, and countries can expect that even if they come to some agreement with the U.S., it might not be honored.
Well, Russia and China do benefit from having Trump around. Trump is Putin's puppet, and  his general screw-ups have left a power vacuum that China and Russia are very eager to fill.

However, what benefits China and/or Russia does not necessarily benefit Canada (or the U.S. for that matter).Ummm... so?

First of all, wars are not the only thing that can be a problem for the world. Widespread famine, diseases, abusive dictatorships, environmental problems, etc. can often cause just as much death as your average war. And lets face it, Trump's record on these is not exactly favorable.

Secondly, the fact that Trump has not engaged in any armed conflict does not make him any better at Biden. After all, he Obama/Biden administration was not particularly militaristic, and I doubt that Biden would suddenly decide to start dropping bombs on random countries. (I could also point out that while Trump hasn't started any wars, under his administration Drone strikes have increased, and oversight has decreased compared to the Obama administration.... not a good combination in my opinion.)

The fact that there hasn't been a war break out in the past 4 years probably has more to do with luck than anything.
 
I would also be curious what you consider a "war of aggression". Something like Gulf War 2 could certainly be classified as such... But what about Afghanistan? (I'm sure most people would consider it justified given that the U.S. was attacked from people operating from there.) How about Libya? (The U.S. did engage in bombing there, but the U.S. were certainly not the instigators.) Or are you assuming that any war the U.S. fights in is automatically a "war of aggression", regardless of the underlying context?
Russia may not be a threat in the way of "Large scale invasion/occupation". But that does not mean that they are not a problem....

They certainly have used their military against neighboring countries.... Afghanistan (back when i was the USSR), Ukraine, etc. And even if they are not a military threat, they certainly have disrupted other countries in other ways.... such as interfering in various elections (most famously the U.S. 2016/2020 elections, but also possibly the 2017 french election, the 2014 Ukraine election, and possibly Brexit)

Russia should not be considered an ally, nor a country that should be trusted.While I don't think China would have any interest in a large-scale war against the U.S., they may decide to flex their muscles and act against Taiwan, or expand their sphere of influence in south east asia. And they have had their recent skirmishes with India. They have used a lot of resources to build their own stealth jets (with data that had been stolen from the F35 program, part of which Canada funded.)

I very intelligent and thoughful post which deserves my full attention when I have the time......
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 27, 2020, 05:51:40 pm
As a Canadian, I'd have to say Trump is a pretty bad choice.

You could be right, but chances are we'll discuss the pros and cons here.

Quote
His trade wars are harming countries (like Canada) that are supposed to be allies. (They are also harming the U.S. too...) His cutbacks in various forms of 'soft power' increases the possibility of future conflicts.

I am of the opinion that there can be no harm done to Canada if we start to quickly diversify our trade relations away from the US. As other countries do that, and they are already, the US will be forced to fall into line with us in free and fair trade. There's no way to beat a blackmailer in working with one. I have little feeling for the US being hurt in trade relations with other countries. And the world has M.A.D. to fall back on for it's safety from US aggression.

 
Quote
His cutbacks on programs that deal with disease prevention mean an increased chance of future pandemics. And his attempts to withdraw troops from parts of the middle east lead to a flareup that displaced thousands of people (not exactly a canada-specific problem but still one that should be of concern.)

The increased chance of future pandemics is a point worth considering but could be a necessary trade-off for other considerations. I would suggest that only good can come from a US withdrawal from all ME countries. That would minimize the death toll, as opposed to prolonging the slaughter. And also consider the great probability that the US has no intention of withdrawing from the ME. It's not going to give up it's share of the wealth and just willingly award the spoils to Russia, China, or other big oil consumers. As we speak, Russia is close to bringing peace to Syria, while the US continues to promote more war. Also, consider that we all should know that Trump will lose all his incentive to deny the virus after the election.

Quote
The U.S. is no longer a trustworthy ally, and countries can expect that even if they come to some agreement with the U.S., it might not be honored.

My point on trade relations with the US!

Quote
Well, Russia and China do benefit from having Trump around. Trump is Putin's puppet, and  his general screw-ups have left a power vacuum that China and Russia are very eager to fill.

Yes! We have as much chance of being right about that as we have with being wrong. The jury is already in on Russia of course and there's really no reason why it would be different with China.

Quote
However, what benefits China and/or Russia does not necessarily benefit Canada (or the U.S. for that matter).Ummm... so?

What benefits China is unmistakable not beneficial to the US but I don't see any negatives with China. As for security from within Nato, there's probably more danger in being aligned with the US. China can be trusted to not be a military aggressor and even if they were, we have M.A.D. for another 75 years most likely. Military aggression by the US will become a thing of the past. For large and powerful countries such as Russia and China because of M.A.D. For small countries such as Venezuela or Iran, because they all will become proxies under the wings of the nuclear powers. Just like Israel.

Quote
First of all, wars are not the only thing that can be a problem for the world. Widespread famine, diseases, abusive dictatorships, environmental problems, etc. can often cause just as much death as your average war. And lets face it, Trump's record on these is not exactly favorable.

Speaking on how that pertains to Trump, it appears we are in agreement. I go a little further and suggest that the Democratic party has talked the hawkish talk on Russia. And as for Biden's military posture? I don't believe he would be allowed anymore than just one more opinion added to the US foreign policy going forward. No more and no less.

Quote
Secondly, the fact that Trump has not engaged in any armed conflict does not make him any better at Biden.

Of course not, they're all Americans.

Quote
After all, he Obama/Biden administration was not particularly militaristic, and I doubt that Biden would suddenly decide to start dropping bombs on random countries. (I could also point out that while Trump hasn't started any wars, under his administration Drone strikes have increased, and oversight has decreased compared to the Obama administration.... not a good combination in my opinion.)

I agree, and I believe we have a better chance of being right on that as opposed to wrong.

Quote
The fact that there hasn't been a war break out in the past 4 years probably has more to do with luck than anything.

My position on that is somewhat different. First, Russia is back now and the US's window of opportunity in the world has been slammed shut! And China is up now as a powerful ally in forces that oppose US military expansionist tactics. Secondly, the countries that the US wishes to conquer and control are also clients of the other nuclear powers here mentioned. I'm suggesting that Iran and Venezuela, for examples of oil rich countries, are considered out of bounds by US hawks. It's too late for the US to do more damage and slaughter for economic gain.
 
Quote
I would also be curious what you consider a "war of aggression". Something like Gulf War 2 could certainly be classified as such... But what about Afghanistan? (I'm sure most people would consider it justified given that the U.S. was attacked from people operating from there.)

Seriously on Afghanistan, with all due respects to your obviously being in touch with reality. An attack by 19 Saudis is the justification for a war that's gone on for 19 years? Seriously? Is there not an abundance of evidence that 911 is being used for US justification for their war? Is there any doubt that Russia and China would now have the opportunity of being invited into Afghanistan as a counter force to US aggression?

Quote
How about Libya? (The U.S. did engage in bombing there, but the U.S. were certainly not the instigators.) Or are you assuming that any war the U.S. fights in is automatically a "war of aggression", regardless of the underlying context?

Petty much! But I'm always open to hearing the counter argument which makes Russia or China to blame.

Quote
Russia may not be a threat in the way of "Large scale invasion/occupation". But that does not mean that they are not a problem....

That's something I can't relate to in the least. Russia is a struggling new democracy that is being set back by US sanctions and dirty tricks no matter what it tries to do. (further discussion might happen on this point)

Quote
They certainly have used their military against neighboring countries.... Afghanistan (back when i was the USSR), Ukraine, etc. And even if they are not a military threat, they certainly have disrupted other countries in other ways.... such as interfering in various elections (most famously the U.S. 2016/2020 elections, but also possibly the 2017 french election, the 2014 Ukraine election, and possibly Brexit)

Yes, Afghanistan when they were the USSR, and when there was a Cold war struggle happening between the US and the Soviet Union, among others. Point to mention would be the struggle by the US for Vietnam, against the other side's struggle to unite that country under communism. And the Ukraine because of US ambitions to bring that country into the Nato fold and encroach further on Russia's borders.

Quote
Russia should not be considered an ally, nor a country that should be trusted.While I don't think China would have any interest in a large-scale war against the U.S., they may decide to flex their muscles and act against Taiwan, or expand their sphere of influence in south east asia. And they have had their recent skirmishes with India. They have used a lot of resources to build their own stealth jets (with data that had been stolen from the F35 program, part of which Canada funded.)

I'm not aware of any reason why Russia shouldn't become a nation that is accepted as an ally.

I haven't really formed a firm opinion on China's willingness to chance reuniting the two China's. I understand completely their ambitions but I feel this is another situation where M.A.D. would be too risky at this point in time. Rather, I see perhaps a possibility of China trading off it's gains throughout the world to the US for China's control of it's sphere of influence. China practically owns Cuba and it's sympathies now, and will undoubtedly be into a negotiating position in the foreseeable future as concerning missile installations. Just as the US was forced to trade off their missile installations in Turkey for Russia's missile installations in Cuba. I doubt you don't know the real story on that!

p.s. the Crimea was a happy status quo situation until the US (nato) tried to take a bridge too far, and consequently got the Crimea stuffed right up nato's ass. Putin/Russia had no choice! Russia would never sit back and allow the loss of it's vital interests in Crimea.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 28, 2020, 12:11:06 am
DementiaDon (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1305645981279625216/pu/vid/404x720/LsmzdB-DqGtJ_hej.mp4?tag=10)

That video really lays it out.  You can't watch that video and not think there's something wrong with the guy.

Trump supporters would say "but those are cherry-picked moments! He's not like that all the time!" but that's exactly the same thing they're doing with Biden's flubs.

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on October 28, 2020, 08:39:50 am
Both candidates are basically ancient skeletons whose ideas actually died in the boneyard 30 years ago.  Maybe Trump's died in 1945 who knows.

Trudeau's 1970s approach looks so fresh in comparison.

Less government with more $ for the common person and a big swing left... that's where I see all of this leading. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 28, 2020, 11:41:55 am
Both candidates are basically ancient skeletons whose ideas actually died in the boneyard 30 years ago.  Maybe Trump's died in 1945 who knows.

Trudeau's 1970s approach looks so fresh in comparison.

Less government with more $ for the common person and a big swing left... that's where I see all of this leading.

That's exactly what they need in that country but Trump has them fooled on how to get there. They are hooked into waving their flags to support the establishment.

It's at least good for China at this critical time.

We can continue to stay close to the US or we can choose China's path to enlightenment. The truth is, China's system has elevated hundreds of millions of their people up out of poverty and no other country on earth has come close to doing that.

That's the power of socially responsible capitalism that just happens to be within a communist system that is capable of keeping out US meddling and dirty tricks.

Enough innocent people have already died in the US's 40 wars of aggression since WW2 ended.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 28, 2020, 05:55:08 pm
Cities brace for election night violence.  Not from Trump voters though.  Quite telling.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/10/01/politics/extremism-violence-election-preparations-invs/index.html
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 28, 2020, 06:07:08 pm
Cities brace for election night violence.  Not from Trump voters though.  Quite telling.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/10/01/politics/extremism-violence-election-preparations-invs/index.html

Good news for mankind! Even better if both sides go for the guns!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 28, 2020, 06:43:23 pm
Cities brace for election night violence.  Not from Trump voters though.  Quite telling.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/10/01/politics/extremism-violence-election-preparations-invs/index.html

No...  theyíre not the only ones...  but they are #1 on the list.

Quote
And while right-wing extremists and white supremacist groups are still seen as the top threat by US officials....

(Trumpís base)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 28, 2020, 07:02:05 pm
No...  theyíre not the only ones...  but they are #1 on the list.

(Trumpís base)
Oh no doubt.  I mean, theyíve spent the last 4 months destroying every city in America.  Oh wait.  Never mind.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 28, 2020, 07:03:23 pm
Radical left is more prone to tantrums.  Radical right get huffy and carry around guns, then sometimes snap and shoot people.  They both need some anger-management pre-Nov. 3rd
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 28, 2020, 07:29:36 pm
Radical left is more prone to tantrums.  Radical right get huffy and carry around guns, then sometimes snap and shoot people.  They both need some anger-management pre-Nov. 3rd

Good people on both sides...  got it.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 28, 2020, 07:47:21 pm
Good people on both sides...  got it.
Well thereís very fine people among the rioters.  The media tells us this constantly.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 28, 2020, 08:09:19 pm
Good people on both sides...  got it.

None of them are good people.  Nice try though, but fail.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 28, 2020, 10:19:02 pm
https://youtu.be/JpHfjBfCyyg
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 28, 2020, 10:27:20 pm
No one takes you seriously? I wonder why that is.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 29, 2020, 07:00:37 am
No one takes you seriously? I wonder why that is.
Because youíre all echo chamber Trump deranged partisans.  Biden could **** somebody or sell access on the corner of 5th avenue and youíd still support him.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 29, 2020, 07:08:31 am
Because youíre all echo chamber Trump deranged partisans.  Biden could **** somebody or sell access on the corner of 5th avenue and youíd still support him.
Your projection is weak. It's not working anymore.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 29, 2020, 11:43:36 am
Because youíre all echo chamber Trump deranged partisans.  Biden could **** somebody or sell access on the corner of 5th avenue and youíd still support him.

Actually the types you describe are unfortunately the types that will buy trumpy's latest BS that they have beaten Covid, will throw away their masks if they were in fact wearing one, throw w big party and help drive the new infection numbers through the roof. I think there should be a legal protocol to allow criminal charges brought for such a blatant disregard for human health merely for the last minute political panic trump now finds himself in.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 29, 2020, 12:06:59 pm
Actually the types you describe are unfortunately the types that will buy trumpy's latest BS that they have beaten Covid, will throw away their masks if they were in fact wearing one, throw w big party and help drive the new infection numbers through the roof. I think there should be a legal protocol to allow criminal charges brought for such a blatant disregard for human health merely for the last minute political panic trump now finds himself in.

Don't sweat it for America and Americans. They're choosing their own path forward on Covid-19.

The only concern about their actions is on how the elevated level of suffereing they bring on themselves can escape to outside their borders.

And then later when they will need to place the blame on China or others, the possibility of them starting a hot war over it all.

Canadians on this board are making it pretty obvious that they still have a great deal of confidence in America and their greatness. It's time all Canadians stop and re-evaluate their thinking.

That country is on a decline from glory and there's little chance of them not doing great harm to others as they fall.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 29, 2020, 12:42:34 pm
Don't sweat it for America and Americans. They're choosing their own path forward on Covid-19.

The only concern about their actions is on how the elevated level of suffereing they bring on themselves can escape to outside their borders.

And then later when they will need to place the blame on China or others, the possibility of them starting a hot war over it all.

Canadians on this board are making it pretty obvious that they still have a great deal of confidence in America and their greatness. It's time all Canadians stop and re-evaluate their thinking.

That country is on a decline from glory and there's little chance of them not doing great harm to others as they fall.

Ah I wouldn't worry, once Covid's over we'll be back to having the world's longest undefended border and Trump will just be a bad joke in the rearview.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 29, 2020, 01:41:18 pm
Ah I wouldn't worry, once Covid's over we'll be back to having the world's longest undefended border and Trump will just be a bad joke in the rearview.

You're making an unwise assumption that country will return to normal after Trump. Also, unwise for now because there might not be an 'after' for Trump.

The reason why you do that is because you don't have a proper understanding of what has caused Trump. If you want to learn just let me know. I'm not going to waste my time on deaf ears.

However, I take the time to reply to you because I think you have the right attitude.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 29, 2020, 02:44:01 pm
You're making an unwise assumption that country will return to normal after Trump. Also, unwise for now because there might not be an 'after' for Trump.

The reason why you do that is because you don't have a proper understanding of what has caused Trump. If you want to learn just let me know. I'm not going to waste my time on deaf ears.

However, I take the time to reply to you because I think you have the right attitude.

Very simply for ya what caused Trump is that Americans were pissed off with the establishment and wanted someone who they thought could shake things up. (And of course a little help from the Kremlin) Well they did get a shake up but maybe not exactly the one they were hoping for. CEO's salaries continue to rise while working stiffs remain stagnant. Of course Covid has had a big effect there. Well, they can correct the Trump problem next week, Covid will take a while longer. I wouldn't say Biden would be my first choice but his theme of being president not just for blue states or red states but for the United States is a sensible place to start.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 29, 2020, 03:43:54 pm
Biden is massively underperforming with Hispanics in Florida!
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/29/biden-narrow-lead-florida-hispanics-433570
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 29, 2020, 03:45:04 pm
Hillary lost Florida but won Hispanics by 27 points.  Biden is only up 5!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on October 29, 2020, 04:12:49 pm
Or his father.  The family is completely compromised and susceptible to blackmail.  Everything thought about the Trump family.
There you go again, rubber meets glue...a narcissistically infantile response that perfectly captures what passes for mainstream conservative thought processes these days.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 29, 2020, 04:53:30 pm
Biden is massively underperforming with Hispanics in Florida!
Hillary lost Florida but won Hispanics by 27 points.  Biden is only up 5!

here, try these:
 
=> Univision poll (yesterday, 10/28) among Florida Hispanics, Biden leading Trump by 20 points, 57 to 37 percent.

=> CBS News Battleground poll (last week) among Florida Hispanics, Biden leading Trump by 27 points.

Biden Hispanic lead in Florida led by those of Puerto Rican & South American origin/ties - go figure!

 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 29, 2020, 04:58:18 pm
vote Biden - what you get if you vote for Trump! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1321568020653748224/pu/vid/1080x608/vwG4pFXBX7noFWPU.mp4?tag=10)  ;D
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 29, 2020, 05:07:53 pm
oh my! The Economist endorses Joe Biden...

(https://i.imgur.com/3JgUnMm.png)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 29, 2020, 05:09:34 pm
here, try these:
 
=> Univision poll (yesterday, 10/28) among Florida Hispanics, Biden leading Trump by 20 points, 57 to 37 percent.

=> CBS News Battleground poll (last week) among Florida Hispanics, Biden leading Trump by 27 points.

Biden Hispanic lead in Florida led by those of Puerto Rican & South American origin/ties - go figure!
Yes, because Telemundo is biased right! Lol.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 29, 2020, 05:16:49 pm
Yes, because Telemundo is biased right! Lol.

I suggested you try the other 2 recent polls rather than your penchant to cherry-pick a single-poll that gives you a warmFuzzy! Apparently... you've chosen to interpret the other 2 polls as biased, right - go figure!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on October 29, 2020, 05:39:57 pm
oh my! The Economist endorses Joe Biden...

(https://i.imgur.com/3JgUnMm.png)
Trump has merely underscored what have been amongst America's core values for a couple decades now.

Again, he's merely an effect not the cause.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 29, 2020, 06:01:05 pm
I suggested you try the other 2 recent polls rather than your penchant to cherry-pick a single-poll that gives you a warmFuzzy! Apparently... you've chosen to interpret the other 2 polls as biased, right - go figure!
Then why is Janes Carville freaking out over the polls and early voting numbers in Florida?  Do you know more than him about elections?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 29, 2020, 06:30:28 pm
Then why is Janes Carville freaking out over the polls and early voting numbers in Florida?  Do you know more than him about elections?

You expect him to say ďwe got Florida in the bag....   no worries thereĒ? 

Duh. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 29, 2020, 07:08:23 pm
Very simply for ya what caused Trump is that Americans were pissed off with the establishment and wanted someone who they thought could shake things up. (And of course a little help from the Kremlin) Well they did get a shake up but maybe not exactly the one they were hoping for. CEO's salaries continue to rise while working stiffs remain stagnant. Of course Covid has had a big effect there. Well, they can correct the Trump problem next week, Covid will take a while longer. I wouldn't say Biden would be my first choice but his theme of being president not just for blue states or red states but for the United States is a sensible place to start.

You've missed one main point and that's that Biden isn't going to fix that which isn't Trump's fault. Biden is an establishment bid to keep the status quo in place. Those people are still afraid of a real fix that's going to take a leader something like Bernie. They see that as communism or socialism and the Dem party was still afraid to go there.

I think it's quite delightful really. China gets breathing room as they fight with themselves.

Or maybe you do understand that but just didn't spell it all out completely? I hope so because it's really quite elementary.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 29, 2020, 07:53:21 pm
I still have some hope Biden is more in touch with the middle class than the the typical corporate politician, just because he took the commuter train for so many years. Public transit humanizes us.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 29, 2020, 07:58:53 pm
Wuhan Waldo and Beijing Bubber, pushing hard for their guy!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 29, 2020, 08:09:40 pm
You've missed one main point and that's that Biden isn't going to fix that which isn't Trump's fault. Biden is an establishment bid to keep the status quo in place. Those people are still afraid of a real fix that's going to take a leader something like Bernie. They see that as communism or socialism and the Dem party was still afraid to go there.

I think it's quite delightful really. China gets breathing room as they fight with themselves.

Or maybe you do understand that but just didn't spell it all out completely? I hope so because it's really quite elementary.

Biden will very likely listen to the expert teams he'll have around him. That in itslef will have better results than, say Trump dismissing Faucci because he thinks he knows more about infectious disease.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 29, 2020, 10:13:33 pm
The FBI confirms that thereís been an open investigation on Hunter Biden in regards to money laundering since 2019.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 29, 2020, 10:55:25 pm
The FBI confirms that thereís been an open investigation on Hunter Biden in regards to money laundering since 2019.

Tell us more....  weíre dying to hear the gossip from TMZ....   maybe ďunnamed sourcesĒ let this slip?

Or are these the documents that Tucker Karlsen had that somehow ďdisappearedĒ.   
ďI swear...  these documents said Hunter Biden stole money and ummm...  ate babies...  but theyíre lost nowĒ.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 29, 2020, 11:50:24 pm
The FBI confirms that thereís been an open investigation on Hunter Biden in regards to money laundering since 2019.

member Shady... listen to member Shady!

Why are you posting this in the Joe Biden thread?  This thread is specifically for Joe Biden material
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 29, 2020, 11:57:07 pm
The FBI confirms that thereís been an open investigation on Hunter Biden in regards to money laundering since 2019.

can you cite that... my crack research team is telling me it's an unnamed U.S. Department of Justice official - you know, one of Trumpy's boys! Surely you're aware of the FBI policy to not release any information that might impact upon an election... like all that bigTimeKerfuffle last go-around when just days before the election, FBI Director Comey said Clinton was being investigated. By the by, at that same time, an FBI investigation of Donald J. Trump was also open/proceeding... but that never came out, hey!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on October 29, 2020, 11:57:10 pm
oh my! The Economist endorses Joe Biden...

(https://i.imgur.com/3JgUnMm.png)

It's actually not that impressive.  I remember they'd endorsed Clinton so I looked it up.  They've been endorsing Democrat since 2004... coincidentally the same year we realized Republican have gone bat-sh!t crazy.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 30, 2020, 12:02:50 am
oh my! The Economist endorses Joe Biden...

(https://i.imgur.com/3JgUnMm.png)
Quote
THE ECONOMIST does not have a vote in America's presidential election, but since 1980 we have cast a ballot in spirit. Despite our London home, much of our readership lives in the United States, so we believe it useful to say how we would think about our voteóif we had one. Looking back, we tend to dislike incumbents, but favour no partyówe have endorsed nearly equal numbers of Democrats and Republicans.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 30, 2020, 12:08:02 am
The FBI confirms that thereís been an open investigation on Hunter Biden in regards to money laundering since 2019.

Are you planning to keep flogging this dead horse even after Biden takes over the WH next week" It's been old news for some time now so maybe move along. \well of course unless the likes of tucker carlson are your news source.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 30, 2020, 12:10:50 am
I suggested you try the other 2 recent polls rather than your penchant to cherry-pick a single-poll that gives you a warmFuzzy! Apparently... you've chosen to interpret the other 2 polls as biased, right - go figure!

Then why is James Carville freaking out over the polls and early voting numbers in Florida?  Do you know more than him about elections?


hotDamn member Shady... I will defer to your guy, James Carville:

Quote from: Democrat political consultant, the Ragin Cajun, James Carville
Not only are we going to know election night. Weíre going to know at 10:30 Eastern. This thing is not going to be close. Weíre going to know early. Iím not in any panic whatsoever.

I probably see as much polling as anybody in the country. And if anything, it continues to improve [for Biden].
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 30, 2020, 12:22:40 am
How a fake persona laid the groundwork for a Hunter Biden conspiracy deluge (https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-groundwork-hunter-biden-conspiracy-deluge-n1245387) --- A 64-page document that was later disseminated by close associates of President Donald Trump appears to be the work of a fake "intelligence firm."

Quote
One month before a purported leak of files from Hunter Biden's laptop, a fake "intelligence" document about him went viral on the right-wing internet, asserting an elaborate conspiracy theory involving former Vice President Joe Biden's son and business in China.

The document, a 64-page composition that was later disseminated by close associates of President Donald Trump, appears to be the work of a fake "intelligence firm" called Typhoon Investigations, according to researchers and public documents.

The author of the document, a self-identified Swiss security analyst named Martin Aspen, is a fabricated identity, according to analysis by disinformation researchers, who also concluded that Aspen's profile picture was created with an artificial intelligence face generator. The intelligence firm that Aspen lists as his previous employer said that no one by that name had ever worked for the company and that no one by that name lives in Switzerland, according to public records and social media searches.

One of the original posters of the document, a blogger and professor named Christopher Balding, took credit for writing parts of it when asked about it and said Aspen does not exist.

Despite the document's questionable authorship and anonymous sourcing, its claims that Hunter Biden has a problematic connection to the Communist Party of China have been used by people who oppose the Chinese government, as well as by far-right influencers, to baselessly accuse candidate Joe Biden of being beholden to the Chinese government.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on October 30, 2020, 12:22:48 am
THE ECONOMIST does not have a vote in America's presidential election, but since 1980 we have cast a ballot in spirit. Despite our London home, much of our readership lives in the United States, so we believe it useful to say how we would think about our voteóif we had one. Looking back, we tend to dislike incumbents, but favour no partyówe have endorsed nearly equal numbers of Democrats and Republicans.

6 out of 9 were Democrat and more importantly, it's that the last Republican endorsement was GWB's first bid. 

One of these days I'll figure out how to post pictures on this forum (yes, shame on me), but look at the blurbs in the link below.  It's interesting, I think their evolution has less to do with the Economist becoming left-wing (they endorsed Harper twice), than it does with the Republicans becoming insufferable shysters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_editorial_stance#United_States_presidential_elections





Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 30, 2020, 01:08:13 am
I expect that sometime in the next few days, Rudy Giuliani will "decrypt" some more secrets from Andrei Derkach's Hunter Biden's laptop.  But they've already claimed sexual abuse of a minor, which is usually the nuclear option in this sort of thing. What can they do to top that?  Illuminati? Satanic cultists? Space aliens?   Are the Bidens actually 12 foot tall lizards disguised as humans?

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on October 30, 2020, 06:10:49 am
I expect that sometime in the next few days, Rudy Giuliani will "decrypt" some more secrets from Andrei Derkach's Hunter Biden's laptop.  But they've already claimed sexual abuse of a minor, which is usually the nuclear option in this sort of thing. What can they do to top that?  Illuminati? Satanic cultists? Space aliens?   Are the Bidens actually 12 foot tall lizards disguised as humans?

 -k

I don't understand something about this - even if you buy this story, is Biden alleged to have done anything substantial here ?  I haven't heard any specifics at all. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on October 30, 2020, 10:34:49 am
I don't understand something about this - even if you buy this story, is Biden alleged to have done anything substantial here ?  I haven't heard any specifics at all.

The only part that has any legitimate bearing on the presidency is the claim that Hunter sold meetings with Joe-- pay to play, influence peddling.  But that's like a typical week for the Trump family, so even if the claim about Biden is true... who cares?

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 30, 2020, 11:25:55 am
Everything about the US and their politicians is corrupt, but amazingly most Canadians still side with them over Russia and China. Even another US led war won't make much difference. After they lied about their reasons for war against Iraq, then slaughtered over a million people, one has to begin to wonder if there's any decency in even the US's cheerleaders?

One thing for sure is that regardless of which one of them wins the presidency, nothing will change much. It's not difficult to understand that Trump is only a symptom of a sick and evil society.

Kudos to Trump for exposing a lot of the rot!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on October 30, 2020, 12:01:08 pm
6 out of 9 were Democrat and more importantly, it's that the last Republican endorsement was GWB's first bid. 

One of these days I'll figure out how to post pictures on this forum (yes, shame on me), but look at the blurbs in the link below.  It's interesting, I think their evolution has less to do with the Economist becoming left-wing (they endorsed Harper twice), than it does with the Republicans becoming insufferable shysters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_editorial_stance#United_States_presidential_elections

The GOP and the Democrats have been doing a wonderful job destroying America the last 40 years, sometimes in the name of virtue, but more often in service of the wealthy who fund them and therefore have great influence over them.  If i'm going to pick a party that has destroyed America the least it would be the Democrats.  So if you want America destroyed at a slower pace, vote Democrat, or at a faster pace vote GOP.  Therefore, I hope Biden wins.

Maybe you need to reach the bottom before you build things back up again.  In that case, vote Trump.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 30, 2020, 12:15:48 pm
The only part that has any legitimate bearing on the presidency is the claim that Hunter sold meetings with Joe-- pay to play, influence peddling.  But that's like a typical week for the Trump family, so even if the claim about Biden is true... who cares?

 -k
I can totally respect that position.  Itís too bad more people wouldnít just be honest.  And say there are some really crappy things about Biden.  But not enough, or important enough to not vote for him.  Instead of pretending that things donít exist.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on October 30, 2020, 12:39:11 pm
member Shady, speaking of you pretending things don't exist!

Instead of pretending that things donít exist.

How a fake persona laid the groundwork for a Hunter Biden conspiracy deluge (https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-groundwork-hunter-biden-conspiracy-deluge-n1245387) --- A 64-page document that was later disseminated by close associates of President Donald Trump appears to be the work of a fake "intelligence firm."

Quote
One month before a purported leak of files from Hunter Biden's laptop, a fake "intelligence" document about him went viral on the right-wing internet, asserting an elaborate conspiracy theory involving former Vice President Joe Biden's son and business in China.

The document, a 64-page composition that was later disseminated by close associates of President Donald Trump, appears to be the work of a fake "intelligence firm" called Typhoon Investigations, according to researchers and public documents.

The author of the document, a self-identified Swiss security analyst named Martin Aspen, is a fabricated identity, according to analysis by disinformation researchers, who also concluded that Aspen's profile picture was created with an artificial intelligence face generator. The intelligence firm that Aspen lists as his previous employer said that no one by that name had ever worked for the company and that no one by that name lives in Switzerland, according to public records and social media searches.

One of the original posters of the document, a blogger and professor named Christopher Balding, took credit for writing parts of it when asked about it and said Aspen does not exist.

Despite the document's questionable authorship and anonymous sourcing, its claims that Hunter Biden has a problematic connection to the Communist Party of China have been used by people who oppose the Chinese government, as well as by far-right influencers, to baselessly accuse candidate Joe Biden of being beholden to the Chinese government.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 30, 2020, 12:42:29 pm
The GOP and the Democrats have been doing a wonderful job destroying America the last 40 years, sometimes in the name of virtue, but more often in service of the wealthy who fund them and therefore have great influence over them.  If i'm going to pick a party that has destroyed America the least it would be the Democrats.  So if you want America destroyed at a slower pace, vote Democrat, or at a faster pace vote GOP.  Therefore, I hope Biden wins.

Maybe you need to reach the bottom before you build things back up again.  In that case, vote Trump.

You're right on all of that and even Shady seems to get it too!

I would just caution against any commending of the Democrats as the lesser of the two evils.

Trump was accepted as an attempt to escape the status quo poverty of the American people but Hillary was the attempt to prolong the misery by upholding the establishment American way.

And now they're compromised everything again by choosing Biden when they could have taken a chance with Bernie or maybe Eliabeth.

The proof will come very quickly with a Biden presidency.

How exciting to watch them reject socially responsible government again!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 30, 2020, 12:50:37 pm
member Shady, speaking of you pretending things don't exist!

It's turning out to be a nothing issue for the Trump cause.

A big part of it is likely mostly to do with US foreign policy toward the Ukraine and that rises to the level of secrecy. The level of aggression aimed at hurting Russia and encroaching further toward Russia's borders, is beyond being discussed as 'domestic' US politics.

And on considering that, the question at least arises on the pros and cons of another Trump presidency as it pertains to US foreign policy.

Are you aware of what has just happened with Trump appeasing Erdogan's agenda? It relates directly to appeasing Putin's agenda and that's a good thing!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on October 30, 2020, 01:25:54 pm
The GOP and the Democrats have been doing a wonderful job destroying America the last 40 years, sometimes in the name of virtue, but more often in service of the wealthy who fund them and therefore have great influence over them.  If i'm going to pick a party that has destroyed America the least it would be the Democrats.  So if you want America destroyed at a slower pace, vote Democrat, or at a faster pace vote GOP.  Therefore, I hope Biden wins.

Maybe you need to reach the bottom before you build things back up again.  In that case, vote Trump.

I agree with the premise that it's all going to poop either way and the GOP is just expediting the process, but I'm not sure Trump is who I'd like to see at the helm while the country gasps for its final breaths.

He is too authoritarian and dangerous.  He wants to run the country like a dynasty with his kids taking over after him.  He wants to be above the law and discredit free press. 

I don't agree with the likes of Ted Cruz or Tom Cotton, and they'll kill the country faster than a Joe Biden, but at least they won't turn it into a North Korea or Russia.

Voting Trump is outright dangerous for the rest of the world.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on October 30, 2020, 01:29:21 pm

And now they're compromised everything again by choosing Biden when they could have taken a chance with Bernie or maybe Eliabeth.


I love Elizabeth Warren but the way the American electoral college works, her chances would be slim.  They need a moderate in order to win.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 30, 2020, 01:35:37 pm
I love Elizabeth Warren but the way the American electoral college works, her chances would be slim.  They need a moderate in order to win.

Sure Cheque! Their moderate just upholds the failed American way. So they can fk around for another 4 years of pain for the ordinary people.

What kind of abomination would continue with a healthcare system that is as rotten to the core as that one! And I'll bet you a buck that Biden won't be able to fix it, even assuming he has the will to try?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on October 30, 2020, 10:58:50 pm
Politicians have been bought with contributions from health care companies. No president will be able to make real change, Obama Care was probably as good as they could get.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 31, 2020, 10:16:49 am
But, but, but Russia!  LOL!

Another Hunter Biden laptop taken into custody during DEA raid: Report
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/another-hunter-biden-laptop-taken-into-custody-during-dea-raid-report
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 31, 2020, 10:18:34 am
Dems in full panic mode now in Florida, as per CNN.

https://twitter.com/cnn/status/1322347422387965960?s=21
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 31, 2020, 11:55:29 am
Not caring which one of them wins is quite comforting. The feeling is free for the taking to others too if they consider that US domestic policy is of little importance to the outside world, while their foreign policy wouldn't be more positive for the world with either of them winning.

To stop and think carefully about recent US foreign policy, Trump may even come out on the plus side.

Trump is only a symptom of America's malfeasance and it's turn toward fascism.

Relax everybody!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on October 31, 2020, 12:15:21 pm
Dems in full panic mode now in Florida, as per CNN.

https://twitter.com/cnn/status/1322347422387965960?s=21

I suspect the Repubs are increasing their turnout to vote is because they realize the sad state of their leaders affairs. For instqance just yesterday the covid19 pandemic, which he recently claimed he had contained, set a new world record on infections. With over 100,000 new cases it even beat India, which has around 4 times the population. so there's one blatant, and dangerous lie, and then his BS about doctors using covid as a cause of death as a way to make more money has been completely debunked. What a horrible thing to say about healthcare pro's who take risks to help others. I guess those gullible enough to buy his crap will believe anything he says. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 31, 2020, 12:29:49 pm
It would be so interesting to see a professional non-biased study done to establish all of the factors that have caused the cases to spike to nearly 100,000.
Anybody feel they could make a list of factors without bias against Trump?

Population density? Americans' attitudes of false freedom to do as they please? More testing than other countries? Trump spreader events? Cooking the books? Others?

None of which would seem to be able to do it alone.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 31, 2020, 12:43:20 pm
It would be so interesting to see a professional non-biased study done to establish all of the factors that have caused the cases to spike to nearly 100,000.
Anybody feel they could make a list of factors without bias against Trump?

Population density? Americans' attitudes of false freedom to do as they please? More testing than other countries? Trump spreader events? Cooking the books? Others?

None of which would seem to be able to do it alone.

Mask mandates reduce cases and saves lives. 


Quote
ABSTRACT

State policies mandating public or community use of face masks or covers in mitigating the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) are hotly contested. This study provides evidence from a natural experiment on the effects of state government mandates for face mask use in public issued by fifteen states plus Washington, D.C., between April 8 and May 15, 2020. The research design is an event study examining changes in the daily county-level COVID-19 growth rates between March 31 and May 22, 2020. Mandating face mask use in public is associated with a decline in the daily COVID-19 growth rate by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage points in 1Ė5, 6Ė10, 11Ė15, 16Ė20, and 21 or more days after state face mask orders were signed, respectively. Estimates suggest that as a result of the implementation of these mandates, more than 200,000 COVID-19 cases were averted by May 22, 2020. The findings suggest that requiring face mask use in public could help in mitigating the spread of COVID-19.
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on October 31, 2020, 12:54:54 pm
Mask mandates reduce cases and lives. 



I'm curious to hear how that relates to my question squid?

It really doesn't so far. Get a grip or I'll just continue to ignore you for being a nuisance.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on October 31, 2020, 03:40:07 pm
Mask mandates reduce cases and lives. 

 https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

Here is another.

https://news.mit.edu/2020/masks-mandates-impact-deaths-0805
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on October 31, 2020, 06:29:08 pm
Joe Biden wants you to know that badakathcare is a right!

https://twitter.com/kamvtv/status/1322658022964023296?s=21
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 31, 2020, 06:52:37 pm
Joe Biden wants you to know that badakathcare is a right!

https://twitter.com/kamvtv/status/1322658022964023296?s=21
Trump said he had a health care plan. What happened? Is he losing touch with what's going on around him?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on October 31, 2020, 08:42:32 pm
Trump said he had a health care plan. What happened? Is he losing touch with what's going on around him?

Trump's health plan is no health plan.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on November 01, 2020, 08:39:08 am
Trump's health plan is no health plan.
Fact checked false.  4 Pinocchioís.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 01, 2020, 10:01:29 am
You have to cite the plan to win. Otherwise you lose.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on November 01, 2020, 10:26:20 am
Fact checked false.  4 Pinocchioís.

Really? What is it?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on November 01, 2020, 10:27:28 am
Trump said he had a health care plan. What happened? Is he losing touch with what's going on around him?
Heís waiting after the election to let people know.  Kinda like Biden is doing with court packing etc.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on November 01, 2020, 10:42:29 am
Really? What is it?
There are several proposals to make changes to the current system.  One is to remove the anti trust exemption that health insurance companies currently receive.  This would allow competition across state lines, removing the monopoly some companies have in some states.  There are other proposals as well.  Like this one.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1245276

Regardless, under a Trump executive order, all covid health care costs are covered by the government.  Nobody has to pay a penny if they need treatment for coronavirus.  That being said, itís congress that writes the law not presidents.  Trump or Biden can have all the plans they want.  Congress has to agree.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on November 01, 2020, 10:57:05 am
That being said, itís congress that writes the law not presidents.  Trump or Biden can have all the plans they want.  Congress has to agree.

member Shady, you should have led with this... and then gone silent! For example, Trumpy's continued nattering about 'protecting pre-existing conditions'... through an executive order... is nothing but packagedBS. On one hand you have O'Care, as law, providing that protection; on the TrumpHand you have a meaningless executive order saying, "we'd like to do this"!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on November 01, 2020, 11:18:29 am
There are several proposals to make changes to the current system.  One is to remove the anti trust exemption that health insurance companies currently receive.  This would allow competition across state lines, removing the monopoly some companies have in some states.  There are other proposals as well.  Like this one.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1245276

Regardless, under a Trump executive order, all covid health care costs are covered by the government.  Nobody has to pay a penny if they need treatment for coronavirus.  That being said, itís congress that writes the law not presidents.  Trump or Biden can have all the plans they want.  Congress has to agree.

the reason trump has failed so miserably on any new health care plan (among so many other things) is simply because the GOP strategy on healthcare is to remove coverage for patients with preexisting conditions so as to reduce costs. If heaven forbid he does get reelected, by the time he gets around to actually producing some kind of plan, a goodly proportion of Covid patients will already have died. I wouldn't doubt that's what he's banking on.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/why-trump-has-no-real-health-care-plan/616523/
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 01, 2020, 11:18:45 am
Trump will never take from the big insurance companies so he can provide sufficient improvements in the people's healthcare. But once he's elected again he won't need to pretend anymore.
That's the reason why Trump being re-elected could lead to what the CIA calls the Kennedy solution.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 01, 2020, 11:22:41 am
the reason trump has failed so miserably on any new health care plan (among so many other things) is simply because the GOP strategy on healthcare is to remove coverage for patients with preexisting conditions so as to reduce costs. If heaven forbid he does get reelected, by the time he gets around to actually producing some kind of plan, a goodly proportion of Covid patients will already have died. I wouldn't doubt that's what he's banking on.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/why-trump-has-no-real-health-care-plan/616523/

A big reason why their government can get away with the totally inadequate private healthcare they have is because most who suffer are black people.

Above all else, that country has a huge racism problem. Maybe we Canadians should be cheerleading them toward hitting rock bottom as soon as possible, to save the most lives. And not just their lives!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on November 01, 2020, 12:56:07 pm
Trump will never take from the big insurance companies so he can provide sufficient improvements in the people's healthcare. But once he's elected again he won't need to pretend anymore.
That's the reason why Trump being re-elected could lead to what the CIA calls the Kennedy solution.

The Kennedy solution would be Pence.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 01, 2020, 03:47:10 pm
That's the reason why Trump being re-elected could lead to what the CIA calls the Kennedy solution.

Please provide a cite where anyone in the CIA, let alone ďTHE CIAĒ calls anything the ďKennedy solutionĒ.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on November 01, 2020, 04:01:22 pm
Please provide a cite where anyone in the CIA, let alone ďTHE CIAĒ calls anything the ďKennedy solutionĒ.

I didn't quite read it that way. Calling something a Kennedy solution is not the same as advocating it.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 01, 2020, 04:55:50 pm
I didn't quite read it that way. Calling something a Kennedy solution is not the same as advocating it.

Even so, the CIA isnít calling anything that.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on November 01, 2020, 08:58:21 pm
Uh oh!  Spaghetti-o!

https://youtu.be/kQdwYtAJ1q0
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on November 01, 2020, 09:20:43 pm
There are several proposals to make changes to the current system.  One is to remove the anti trust exemption that health insurance companies currently receive.  This would allow competition across state lines, removing the monopoly some companies have in some states.  There are other proposals as well.  Like this one.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1245276

Regardless, under a Trump executive order, all covid health care costs are covered by the government.  Nobody has to pay a penny if they need treatment for coronavirus.  That being said, itís congress that writes the law not presidents.  Trump or Biden can have all the plans they want.  Congress has to agree.

But what is his plan? Executive orders aren't plans.

If it is all up to Congress, why do Republicans label it Obama Care?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on November 01, 2020, 09:21:27 pm
Even so, the CIA isnít calling anything that.

Probably not. Certainly not publicly.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 02, 2020, 04:09:14 pm
The real Shady supports Biden.
https://youtu.be/5p3iMZBzW7M
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on November 02, 2020, 05:42:33 pm
apparently the only occasion that his music has been a part of a political ad... granted by the 'Ray Charles Foundation'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjyhDMNB400
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on November 02, 2020, 06:17:28 pm
apparently the only occasion that his music has been a part of a political ad... granted by the 'Ray Charles Foundation'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjyhDMNB400
Fitting, seeing as though youíd need to be blind to think Biden is an improvement. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 02, 2020, 08:35:49 pm
Fitting, seeing as though youíd need to be blind to think Biden is an improvement.
You will be secretly relieved if Biden wins. You might not even admit it to yourself, but you would be happy.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: northlandmagus on November 03, 2020, 09:13:44 am
Here is an article illustrating EXACTLY WHY Trump is right to condemn mail in voter ballots! With some comments of my own in brackets):

U.S. federal prosecutor announces inquiry into nine discarded ballots

From Reuters, by Sarah N. Lynch. Publishing date: Sep 24, 2020

WASHINGTON ó A top federal prosecutor in the battleground state of Pennsylvania said on Thursday his office had launched an investigation into a small number of discarded mail-in ballots cast in the upcoming 2020 U.S. presidential election.

In a highly unusual public statement, U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, David Freed, said his office and the FBI were contacted on Monday by Luzerne County District Attorney Stefanie Salavantis amid concerns about ďpotential issues with a small number of mail-in ballots at the Luzerne County Board of Elections.Ē

(The ugly reality is that the value of our election results - for both Cdns and Yankees is being called ever more into question! Elections Canada officials have routinely poisoned our elections over a period of decades by permitting the gross violation of election law known as ďvouchingĒ in which the civil service union HOGS who are running our elections - with their vested interest in seeing LIE-berals win - have repeatedly allowed unidentified strangers to cast ballots in critical swing ridings where the winner and losers are separated by only a few votes!)

(We should be asking: WHO ARE these anonymous strangers with no ID of any sort who are being allowed - at the discretion of SELFISH GREEDY HOGS - to influence our elections at key points? And why are HOGS so indifferent to this ongoing political damage unless their goal is more gravy grabbing at any price?)
 
He said his office could confirm that a ďsmall number of military ballotsĒ were discarded.

(Nine ballots have been found and 9 is not a large number - but we should ask: HOW MANY other ballots were more discreetly dumped? And are these ballots being deliberately dumped by Postal Union HOGS to spite both Trump and tax payers?)

ďOf the nine ballots that were discarded and then recovered, seven were cast for presidential candidate Donald Trump. Two of the discarded ballots had been resealed inside their appropriate envelopes by Luzerne elections staff prior to recovery by the FBI and the contents of those two ballots are unknown,Ē he added.

(Resealed envelopes indicates the ballots were DELIBERATELY tampered with and this apparently indicates malevolent purposes rather than mere accident!)
 
In an earlier statement posted online, Freedís office had originally claimed all nine ballots had been cast for Trump. The link was abruptly removed later in the day on Thursday, and a revised statement was issued.

(Was the ďrevisionĒ a politically motivated action intended to minimize justified public anger or was it merely a clarification of a previous error?)

Dawn Clark, a spokeswoman for Freedís office, said the ballots ďwere improperly openedĒ by county staff.

(And WHY are those HOGS opening the ballots illegally in the first place? Unless we are witnessing EXACTLY the sort of vote rigging crap that Trump has said is likely to happen if mail in ballots are widely accepted! And we have only to think back to the election of George Bush and the SORDID spectacle of a pack of scuzzy Florida Lawyers arguing over which ballots to count and which to throw out! Is it any wonder that so many citizens do not think their votes matter?) 

The news about the investigation in Pennsylvania, a state Trump carried in 2016 by 44,000 votes, could add fuel to Trumpís efforts to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the upcoming election.

(Given the kind of confusion that has accompanied many recent elections - with some offices running out of ballots and with scheduled staff not showing up with the result that booths either do not open at all or open quite late - with the result that there are huge lines and endless waits such that some voters cannot wait longer and give up and go away - we SHOULD ASK if there IS a pattern of deliberate manipulation!)

(Even worse - the Yankee Census Bureau information that is used to compile voter registration cards is DELIBERATELY TAINTED! Census takers merely record names and addresses - with NO EFFORT to determine voter eligibility! Those who suggest that illegals should not be allowed to vote are making a FAIR COMPLAINT that is being ignored by LIE-berals!)

(Even WORSE - Yankee HOGS have their own version of ďvouchingĒ that neatly circumvents both election law and immigration rulers as well! LIE-berals are poisoning our elections by encouraging illegal immigration and then allowing illegals to vote in defiance of what the national majority desires! In Canada there is STRONG SUPPORT for deporting illegals and tightening the borders! We can assume that many Yankee voters feel the same since Trump gets voter support - in part - because of his call for a wall to keep out illegals!)     

He has often asserted, without evidence, that widespread mail-in voting will lead to fraud. Democrats, meanwhile, have encouraged voting by mail so that Americans can safely vote during the COVID-19 pandemic.

(The available evidence ALREADY indicates there is probably voter fraud using mail in ballots! Even worse - Postal officials have suggested that they may not be able to deliver all mail in ballots in a timely way and shall we ask if the HOGS will make sure that ballots cast in known LIE-beral districts will arrive FIRST? With ballots from Trump friendly states arriving late or not at all?) 

Speaking at the White House on Thursday, Trump said there had been ballots with his name on them found in a waste-paper basket.

ďWe want to make sure the election is honest and Iím not sure that it can be. I donít know that it can be with this whole situation, unsolicited ballots,Ē Trump said.

Freed said in his statement that his officeís inquiry ďremains ongoing.Ē

(Yes - and the inquiry will continue as long as selfish civil service HOGS and their LIE-beral overlords find it convenient and easy to indulge in ďvouchingĒ and other forms of voter fraud!)

(We should begin to clean up this MESS by raging at any LIE-beral who suggests that ďillegals should be allowed to vote in our elections because they pay taxes tooĒ! Illegals DO NOT pay taxes! Any suggestion they do IS A LIE! Oh sure - they pay sales taxes on purchases made in stores - BUT NO INCOME TAXES! Only legitimate citizens with properly registered paperwork are entered in govt tax rolls! Thus there is NO WAY for an illegal to pay any income tax since there is NO ACCOUNT to send such payments into!)

(But not paying taxes does not prevent illegals from sending their kids to our schools at tax payer expense! And our teacher HOGS have long ago adopted that nasty policy of ďdonít ask and donít tellĒ in order to make it easier for illegals to settle in our lands and make demands for more and better schooling that they donít pay for!)

(Teacher HOGS are very generous with other peoples money! For instance - Toronto District School Board has THREE HUNDRED PERCENT more teaching assistants than is mandated or funded by the Education Ministry! TDSB claims it needs those teaching assistants due to the number of kids they are dealing with that are not native English speakers - but our always greedy HOGS consider it offensive to ask how many of the kids in their classes are here illegally!)

(Nor are Teacher HOGS ashamed of covering up the presence of illegals from countries such as Poland, Portugal and Brazil! HOGS DEMAND their gravy no matter what sacrifices tax payers must endure and do not care that HOG greed is driving us all into national bankruptcy - while at the same time they DEFEND the antics of illegals coming here from European Union countries to STEAL JOBS from Cdns!)

(Consider that nearly NINETY PERCENT of Cdn home renovation and construction is performed ďunder the tableĒ - that is WITHOUT govt oversight or standard tax rates being applied! It is a standing JOKE that many construction companies employ ďindependent subcontractors - meaning people from E.U nations who come here to SKIP all the usual payroll taxes that legit citizens pay and yet when an illegal gets hurt or sick - they can use Fake ID to access our already over loaded health care system - at OUR EXPENSE!)

(All LIE-beral policy is failing! All civil service union HOG values are drowning in a swamp of moral confusion! IT IS Time to call a HALT to the dishonesty and corruption!)
   
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on November 03, 2020, 09:21:30 am
Quote
Trump said there had been ballots with his name on them found in a waste-paper basket

Who cares ?

1) He lies
2) No cite as to where he got this
3) If true, it's insignificant

They need to fumigate US democracy to get rid of this kind of politics IMO
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 07, 2020, 01:23:59 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/3j37XfD.png)

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on November 07, 2020, 08:00:24 pm
Joe Biden just made an entire speech without whining once. I didn't know that was possible.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 07, 2020, 08:47:30 pm


They need to fumigate US democracy to get rid of this kind of politics IMO

Not good for the environment. How about building a wall around the whole thing 100 feet high and then filling it up with water? Preferably before Biden gets a chance to start bombing another country.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on November 11, 2020, 04:34:45 pm
Here's something fun:

When you hear 'Joe Biden' imagine he has ONE name: 'Jobiden'.

It's fun.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 11, 2020, 08:15:28 pm
I've worn aviator style sunglasses just about every day for at least a decade.  But now when I wear them, there's the added benefit that it might upset Trumptards.  I've just splurged and bought a pair of (hopefully) authentic Ray Bans on eBay.

(https://i.imgur.com/KlAPxGS.png)

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on November 11, 2020, 08:37:50 pm
I've worn aviator style sunglasses just about every day for at least a decade.  But now when I wear them, there's the added benefit that it might upset Trumptards.  I've just splurged and bought a pair of (hopefully) authentic Ray Bans on eBay.

(https://i.imgur.com/KlAPxGS.png)

 -k

I've worn ray bans all my aviator life. Never expected they would become political.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on November 11, 2020, 08:45:39 pm
I've worn ray bans all my aviator life. Never expected they would become political.

Never expected baseball caps to become political either, but that's where we're at.

(https://i.imgur.com/f3QMKsT.png)

 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on November 11, 2020, 08:48:26 pm
Here's something fun:

When you hear 'Joe Biden' imagine he has ONE name: 'Jobiden'.

It's fun.

CONFIRMED.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on November 11, 2020, 08:52:21 pm
I've worn aviator style sunglasses just about every day for at least a decade.  But now when I wear them, there's the added benefit that it might upset Trumptards.  I've just splurged and bought a pair of (hopefully) authentic Ray Bans on eBay.


 -k

I wore Ray Bans for years and then I switched to Serengetis. I still try to get close to a Serengeti tint in my prescription glasses.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on November 11, 2020, 09:12:28 pm
Never expected baseball caps to become political either, but that's where we're at.

 -k

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/16/18/24/161824aba0feda7d94fceab7278a2bbb.jpg)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Montgomery on November 12, 2020, 11:35:12 am
You can't beat the one Biden's wearing for the purpose of shoving it down their throats. That's the best indication of 'cooperation' yet!
At least for the ones who get it?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on November 12, 2020, 02:21:57 pm
You mean Jobiden ?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 12, 2020, 09:29:56 am
A month since any of you grifters have posted in the joe Biden thread!  Why am I not surprised!  LOL.

Regardless, an FBI investigation into a president elects son and brother seems kinda newsworthy huh?  Nope, not in this forum!  Eyes closed, hands over ears. Lalalalalalalalalala!  You Trump Hater hypocrites are hilarious.  Itís why nobody takes you people seriously anymore.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on December 12, 2020, 11:08:52 am
(https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/848bb5e/2147483647/resize/1200x%3E/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2F44%2F8d%2Fd465956d47ad9fbe2c6813d062b3%2F20190923edhan-a.jpg)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 12, 2020, 11:41:43 am
A month since any of you grifters have posted in the joe Biden thread!  Why am I not surprised!  LOL.

Regardless, an FBI investigation into a president elects son and brother seems kinda newsworthy huh?  Nope, not in this forum!  Eyes closed, hands over ears. Lalalalalalalalalala!  You Trump Hater hypocrites are hilarious.  Itís why nobody takes you people seriously anymore.

I guess we'd rather keep am eye on the POTUS who has actually broken the laws of the land. Speaking of not being taken seriously, how are ya doin' over at mlw?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 13, 2020, 01:41:39 pm
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on December 13, 2020, 01:49:53 pm
It's another weak argument on Biden... that being part of government for 50 years he's done 'nothing'.

So... the government did nothing in 50 years.  Nothing.

And.  It's Biden's fault.

The Iran Hostage situation.  Biden.
Whip Inflation Now.  Biden.
Savings and Loan Scandal.  Biden.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on December 13, 2020, 01:50:20 pm
(https://politicalpunchline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/biden-trump-votes.jpg)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 13, 2020, 02:33:25 pm
....

WTF???  Shady, trolliní....   It didnít even make any fuckiní sense.  Wow...
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 13, 2020, 03:06:19 pm
Itís funny because itís true.
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 13, 2020, 03:14:54 pm
Itís funny because itís true.
(Attachment Link)

So you get your "news" from the likes of pornhub. Figures.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on December 13, 2020, 04:03:18 pm
Why aren't conservatives ever actually funny?

I mean, they're hilarious, and scary. But they're never funny.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 13, 2020, 04:28:18 pm
Why aren't conservatives ever actually funny?

I mean, they're hilarious, and scary. But they're never funny.
Liberals donít have a sense of humour anymore, thatís why you donít find it funny.  You are too busy banning things, tearing town statues, burning books, and cancelling people. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 13, 2020, 04:28:55 pm
So you get your "news" from the likes of pornhub. Figures.
No.  But on the internet, there are things called memes.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on December 13, 2020, 04:29:47 pm
No.  But on the internet, there are things called memes.

Yeah, you do seem like the type of guy to get his news from memes.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 13, 2020, 04:33:51 pm
Yeah, you do seem like the type of guy to get his news from memes.
Ditto.  Thatís why believe so many false things attributed to Trump.  Thatís why Trudeau could shoot somebody on the corner of Yonge Street and youíd still defend him!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on December 13, 2020, 04:38:34 pm
Ditto.  Thatís why believe so many false things attributed to Trump.

I don't think about Trump. He's old news.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 13, 2020, 04:43:47 pm
I don't think about Trump. He's old news.
Thatís odd, because you have many posts in the Donald Trump thread, as recently as yesterday.  Do you ever stop lying in this forum?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on December 13, 2020, 05:07:33 pm
Thatís odd, because you have many posts in the Donald Trump thread, as recently as yesterday.  Do you ever stop lying in this forum?

It was two days ago, in response to your victory lap over the US administration giving away an entire country to Morocco.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 13, 2020, 05:25:31 pm
I don't think about Trump. He's old news.

And thank Gawd he will be officially old news tomorrow after the EC officially votes him into obscurity.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 13, 2020, 05:28:56 pm
No.  But on the internet, there are things called memes.

And I guess most of us know where you get your pathetic memes.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 13, 2020, 05:45:47 pm
No.  But on the internet, there are things called memes.

When you go to sites like that, you support child pornografy and exploitation...  nice site you use Shady.

Canada is looking at legislation to go after that particular site.

(I spelled it incorrectly due to nannies on this site)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 14, 2020, 07:29:01 am
Liberals donít have a sense of humour anymore, thatís why you donít find it funny.  You are too busy banning things, tearing town statues, burning books, and cancelling people.
I find you hilarious.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 14, 2020, 06:01:00 pm
Shadyís source of news and entertainment is being curtailed...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/pornhub-users-uploads-1.5840802

Quote
Pornhub, a website owned by Montreal-based company Mindgeek, said Monday it has removed all uploaded content not created by verified users.

The move comes as the site deals with the fallout from a recent New York Times report that Pornhub hosts videos of child sexual assaults and exploitations. Opinion columnist Nicholas Kristof wrote that the site carried revenge pornography and explicit video taken without consent of the participants.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 16, 2020, 11:29:48 am
Has Biden answered any questions regarding is fake cancer charity yet?  The one that paid out millions in salaries but nothing in research?  Asking for a friend.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 11:49:39 am
Has Biden answered any questions regarding is fake cancer charity yet?  The one that paid out millions in salaries but nothing in research?  Asking for a friend.


Oooo....  a Fox News GOTCHA!!  LOL

How Fuckiní dumb do you have to be to believe that ****?

https://cancerletter.com/articles/20201116_1/

Quote
In November 2019, a New York state judge ordered Trump to pay a $2 million judgment for improperly using his Trump Foundation charity to further his 2016 presidential campaign.

Quote
Contemporaneous coverage by this reporter demonstrates that from the outset, the Biden Cancer Initiative was not designed to be a grant-giving organization.

It was created to allow Biden to continue playing the role of convener, and to maintain momentum generated by the Beau Biden Cancer Moonshot, which at that time had already slated $1.8 billion for NCI over seven years and $500 million over a decade for FDA.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 16, 2020, 12:01:31 pm
Has Biden answered any questions regarding is fake cancer charity yet?  The one that paid out millions in salaries but nothing in research?  Asking for a friend.

Boy, between Fox/Pornhub you do get led far down the garden path eh.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 12:08:59 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/3j37XfD.png)

 -k

"Get in losers, we're going to maintain the shitty status quo."
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 16, 2020, 12:18:25 pm

Oooo....  a Fox News GOTCHA!!  LOL

How Fuckiní dumb do you have to be to believe that ****?

https://cancerletter.com/articles/20201116_1/
Nice source!  But even Snopes says itís mixed.  Because a lot of it is true. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 16, 2020, 12:21:18 pm
Boy, between Fox/Pornhub you do get led far down the garden path eh.
Lol, yeah, that's why the charity has suspended operations!  Like I've always said, Biden could shoot somebody on 5th avenue, or **** a staffer, or commit fraud, and you'd people would defend him.  Because orange man bad!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 16, 2020, 12:21:43 pm
"Get in losers, we're going to maintain the shitty status quo."
Hey it's Black Dogg, what's up G?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 16, 2020, 12:31:52 pm
"Get in losers, we're going to maintain the shitty status quo."
I wish he was actually going to maintain the status quo, but unfortunately, he and his crew are big proponents of endless foreign wars.  They're also globalists, that have no problem throwing the American worker under the bus, whether it be TPP, or the Paris Accord, or trade with China.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 12:35:20 pm
Nice source!  But even Snopes says itís mixed.  Because a lot of it is true.


Snopes.com says the same thing as the article i linked to.
Quote
What's True
The Biden Cancer Initiative, a charity founded by U.S. President-elect Joe Biden and soon-to-be first lady Jill Biden in 2017, spent more than $3 million on salaries when it was in operation.
What's False
Although the charity spent no money on cancer research grants, this fact is misleadingly framed in that the Biden Cancer Initiative wasn't a grant-giving organization.

Keep lying for the Donald.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 16, 2020, 12:36:45 pm
Lol, yeah, that's why the charity has suspended operations!  Like I've always said, Biden could shoot somebody on 5th avenue, or **** a staffer, or commit fraud, and you'd people would defend him.  Because orange man bad!

Perhaps read the article squid provided and set yourself straight. At least for once.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 16, 2020, 12:38:51 pm

Snopes.com says the same thing as the article i linked to.
Keep lying for the Donald.
You're the liar.  Keep lying like Joe Biden.

What's True
The Biden Cancer Initiative, a charity founded by U.S. President-elect Joe Biden and soon-to-be first lady Jill Biden in 2017, spent more than $3 million on salaries when it was in operation.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-cancer-charity/

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 16, 2020, 12:41:20 pm
Perhaps read the article squid provided and set yourself straight. At least for once.
The article isn't even a news source, it's a blog.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 16, 2020, 12:48:46 pm
FACT
The Biden charity took in 4 million dollars in contributions in 2017 and 2018.

FACT
75% of those contributions went to salaries.

Spin it however you want Biden cultists.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 16, 2020, 12:52:42 pm
The article isn't even a news source, it's a blog.

Even your snopes article explains, yet again, that this biden mission was NOT designed to provide grants.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 16, 2020, 12:54:12 pm
Even your snopes article explains, yet again, that this biden mission was NOT designed to provide grants.
What was it designed to do then?  You think 75% of contributions for salaries is acceptable?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 16, 2020, 01:00:16 pm
What was it designed to do then?  You think 75% of contributions for salaries is acceptable?

It was designed to bring cancer research experts together to speed up the progress on cancer treatment. Again, it's all spelled out in the articles.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 01:07:10 pm
I wish he was actually going to maintain the status quo, but unfortunately, he and his crew are big proponents of endless foreign wars.  They're also globalists, that have no problem throwing the American worker under the bus, whether it be TPP, or the Paris Accord, or trade with China.

Just like the Republicans you mean?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 17, 2020, 11:53:23 am
Quote
Even your snopes article explains, yet again, that this biden mission was NOT designed to provide grants.
What was it designed to do then?
As another poster pointed out, what it was designed to do was described in the article.

From Snopes:
the organization created collaborations that helped cancer patients with things like accessing care, financial support, and community support. According to its website, the 501(c)3 charity brought together dozens of groups and organizations to leverage resources connecting patients to clinical trials, cancer prevention and early detection, and data sharing, for example.

So they weren't doing research on "How do I cure this cancer", but they were working on ways to distribute information between researchers, treatment providers, and cancer patients.
Quote
You think 75% of contributions for salaries is acceptable?
Again, according to Snopes:  salaries at the charity were set by a compensation committee that used ďcomparables to other nonprofitsĒ to set compensation rates.

Since the charity was not directly involved in direct research, nor direct treatment, it would be expected that the proportion of its revenue allocated to salaries would be higher than (for example) the Red Cross, or Trump's favorite charity, nambla.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 17, 2020, 11:57:12 am
Actually, Trump's favourite charity is Trump.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 17, 2020, 12:22:00 pm
Actually, Trump's favourite charity is Trump.
Bidenís favourite is his family.  Heís been enriching them for years.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on December 17, 2020, 12:28:26 pm
Bidenís favourite is his family.  Heís been enriching them for years.

Jesus Christ man. Biden was basically middle class for the majority of his life, until his book deal.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 17, 2020, 12:32:37 pm
Jesus Christ man. Biden was basically middle class for the majority of his life, until his book deal.
Complete nonsense.  He's been living in a multi-million dollar home for decades.  His middle class schtick is all for show.  I can't believe people still fall for that.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 17, 2020, 12:49:11 pm
Biden Inc.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/02/joe-biden-investigation-hunter-brother-hedge-fund-money-2020-campaign-227407
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on December 17, 2020, 01:07:23 pm
Complete nonsense.  He's been living in a multi-million dollar home for decades.  His middle class schtick is all for show.  I can't believe people still fall for that.

Almost everyone who owns a home in Vancouver is living in a multi million dollar home.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 17, 2020, 01:07:51 pm
Biden Inc.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/02/joe-biden-investigation-hunter-brother-hedge-fund-money-2020-campaign-227407

Interesting article...  but, to be honest, I donít have a lot of interest in what memberís of a presidentís family does, unless of course the president is paying them through taxpayers funds, or theyíre getting rich off of scams that the president is helping with. 

None of that is true with Biden, as it says in your article.

That article also backs up what you denied about Joe Biden...  that he didnít make a massive amount of money until very recently due to book sales and speakerís fees.  So I guess youíll be correcting your previous post about that.

So ummm...  I guess  the point of the article is that Joe Biden has family members that try and cash in on his name, but he stays out of it and never profited from it?   He has a brother who was involved in possibly shady dealings?  And a son who had a drug problem who teamed up with the brother?    OK.  Why should anyone care?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 17, 2020, 01:11:43 pm
Almost everyone who owns a home in Vancouver is living in a multi million dollar home.

I have a feeling that was Shady pulling something out of his ass.

Shady, how long has Joe Biden been rich, according to your Ďsourcesí and how did he get there?

He has had his expensive home ever since he made his millions from the book deal and speaking fees....   just like has been mentioned earlier.

Quote
Biden began buying homesóespecially those that were outside his budgetóin his twenties, taking out multiple mortgages and receiving loans against life insurance policies. His net worth was often in the negativesóin 2007, he was ranked the least wealthy senator.

Today, the 77-year-old president-elect is hardly middle class anymore. According to a 2019 Forbes estimate, Biden and his wife Jill are worth $9 million, much of that accrued from speaking fees and book deals that came pouring in after his vice presidency. About $4 million of that worth is in his real estate.
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/real-estate/a33809100/joe-biden-real-estate-homes/

Sounds like the nickname ďMiddle Class JoeĒ was apt until very recently.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on December 17, 2020, 01:24:49 pm
Complete nonsense.  He's been living in a multi-million dollar home for decades.  His middle class schtick is all for show.  I can't believe people still fall for that.

He isn't middle class anymore but then Trump never has been.

According to Forbes, the Bidens are worth 9 million. Most of their money has been made since 2016. They made $396,000 in 2016, his last year in office. Due to speaking engagements and book royalties after he left office they made millions and paid 3.7 million in personal income taxes in 2017 and 1.7 million in 2018. Trump paid what, $750? So Biden definitely not in the same league as Trump when it comes to tax dodges.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 18, 2020, 11:47:44 am
He isn't middle class anymore but then Trump never has been.

According to Forbes, the Bidens are worth 9 million. Most of their money has been made since 2016. They made $396,000 in 2016, his last year in office. Due to speaking engagements and book royalties after he left office they made millions and paid 3.7 million in personal income taxes in 2017 and 1.7 million in 2018. Trump paid what, $750? So Biden definitely not in the same league as Trump when it comes to tax dodges.
Trump has never claimed to be.  In fact, he's bragging about the complete opposite.  Regardless, Trump is following tax law.  When you follow the law it isn't dodging.  Biden is more responsible for existing tax law than Trump is.  Trump just took advantage of the generous write offs allowed by the Obama administration post housing bubble.  Trump pays the legally required amount.  We don't really know about Biden because of some of the possible overseas deals that have been set up by his son and brother.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on December 18, 2020, 12:07:54 pm
Regardless, Trump is following tax law.  When you follow the law it isn't dodging. Trump just took advantage of the generous write offs allowed by the Obama administration post housing bubble.  Trump pays the legally required amount.

wait, what? Has Trumpy finally released his tax returns to allow you to make such pointed and specific claims?

c'mon member Shady, loserTrump lost - get over it!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 18, 2020, 12:21:26 pm
wait, what? Has Trumpy finally released his tax returns to allow you to make such pointed and specific claims?

c'mon member Shady, loserTrump lost - get over it!
The IRS gets his tax returns every year.  You know, the agency that enforces tax law?  LOL!  Do'h!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on December 18, 2020, 12:57:04 pm
Trump has never claimed to be.  In fact, he's bragging about the complete opposite.  Regardless, Trump is following tax law.  When you follow the law it isn't dodging.  Biden is more responsible for existing tax law than Trump is.  Trump just took advantage of the generous write offs allowed by the Obama administration post housing bubble.  Trump pays the legally required amount.  We don't really know about Biden because of some of the possible overseas deals that have been set up by his son and brother.

We'll see what the courts have to say when he is  out of office. We really have no idea what Trump did because he won't make his returns public. We know exactly what Biden did because he does make his public.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 18, 2020, 01:01:44 pm
We'll see what the courts have to say when he is  out of office. We really have no idea what Trump did because he won't make his returns public. We know exactly what Biden did because he does make his public.
Thatís just not true.  Tax returns donít need to be public for tax law to be enforced.  The IRS audits Trump every year.  They receive his tax returns every year.  They determine if heís following the law every year.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on December 18, 2020, 01:14:56 pm
Thatís just not true.  Tax returns donít need to be public for tax law to be enforced.  The IRS audits Trump every year.  They receive his tax returns every year.  They determine if heís following the law every year.

Returns need to be public for these people so the public can tell when they are full of ****.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 21, 2020, 12:40:37 pm
Regardless, Trump is following tax law.
Maybe, maybe not.

There are several things that Trump has been suspected of doing that are not simply "using loop holes", but have actually crossed the line into fraud/illegality.

Examples include:
- Lying about the value of property in order to pay less property tax (while at the same time inflating it when attempting to use it for loan purposes)
- Paying Ivanka consultancy fees when she was an employee, which might be an attempt to violate gift taxes
- Claiming some of his real estate as an investment property (which gives certain tax breaks) even though the property had been exclusively used for personal use

Now, at this point none of this has been proven in a court of law... But then, tax fraud cases are often easy to overlook, and Trump has been able to delay such investigations because of his political positions. But at this point the bulk of the evidence suggest that Trump was breaking tax laws.

From: https://www.vox.com/21459231/trump-tax-returns-evasion-fraud
One of the most intriguing revelations in the Timesís reporting on Trumpís long-hidden tax returns is that money he gave his daughter Ivanka was treated as a tax write-off....his company once paid $747,622 to an unnamed consultant...consultant appears to have been his daughter...This is the kind of thing the IRS could easily overlook...when you receive gifts of this size, you need to pay a gift tax on them. If you structure your gift as a consulting fee, it passes to your heir untaxed. Taking whatís really a gift and pretending itís a business expense is against the law.
...
An earlier New York Times story about Trumpís fatherís taxes showed that not only did the president inherit a vast fortune, he did so largely while avoiding paying estate taxes....By the time this story emerged, the statute of limitations had passed, so it was impossible to hold anyone criminally responsible.


From: https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/09/eric-trump-westchester-compound-tax-write-off
In his 2014 taxes Trump also reportedly said that Seven Springs is an investment property rather than a personal residence, and as a result heís written off $2.2 million in property taxes as a business expense....The estate is ďreally our compound,Ē Eric Trump told the magazine then, recalling his summers and weekends there...

Also, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28yrkIzVXys

[yt]28yrkIzVXys[/yt]
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 21, 2020, 12:52:56 pm
Thatís just not true.  Tax returns donít need to be public for tax law to be enforced.  The IRS audits Trump every year.  They receive his tax returns every year.  They determine if heís following the law every year.
Yes the IRS does audit Trump taxes, and they do enforce the law. But, they are not perfect. They deal largely with the submitted paperwork, and they typically do not have the resources to dig deeper into into potential examples of illegality. As such, people might avoid going to jail as a result.

One such example is the potential that Trump avoided gift taxes by giving money to Ivanka and calling it 'consulting fees'. To catch that sort of thing, they would have to track down 1) who the payments went to, and 2) examine the "work" that was potentially done. Overworked auditors probably don't have that sort of time, so they just check if all the numbers on Trump's forms add up and call it a day.


Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 23, 2020, 12:42:54 pm
What a grifter!

Emails obtained by the FBI last year detail how Hunter Biden, the son of former Vice-President Joe Biden, ďstrategized with his business partner on how to leverage an upcoming official trip to Kiev by his father, then-Vice President Joe Biden, to clinchĒ his lucrative position on the board of Burisma, reports Just The News, which has obtained copies of the emails.


https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/12/23/the-fbi-has-emails-that-tell-us-why-hunter-biden-was-hired-by-burisma-report-n1227261
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on December 23, 2020, 12:49:29 pm
U.S. Attorney General William Barr says no need for special counsels to investigate election or Hunter Biden (https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/21/politics/william-barr-hunter-biden-election-special-counsel/index.html)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 23, 2020, 12:50:27 pm
U.S. Attorney General William Barr says no need for special counsels to investigate election or Hunter Biden (https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/21/politics/william-barr-hunter-biden-election-special-counsel/index.html)
Yes, the investigations are being handled by the FBI under it's normal process.  No special counsel is necessary as of now.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on December 23, 2020, 01:03:27 pm
What a grifter!

Emails obtained by the FBI last year detail how Hunter Biden, the son of former Vice-President Joe Biden, ďstrategized with his business partner on how to leverage an upcoming official trip to Kiev by his father, then-Vice President Joe Biden, to clinchĒ his lucrative position on the board of Burisma, reports Just The News, which has obtained copies of the emails.

 ;D these "supposed emails" were on that most suspect laptop that the "good samaritan" repair shop owner turned over to ColludyRudy! Geezaz member Shady, you're such a simpleton!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: kimmy on December 23, 2020, 01:24:26 pm
A source that still refers to Joe Biden as "former Vice President" on December 23, 2020... that's a powerful statement about their credibility.  They might have better luck convincing people to take them seriously if they would acknowledge reality.

That aside, this is a great example of Senile Rudy and his ridiculous laptop hijinx has pretty much ruined the Hunter Biden story as a "gotcha" story for Republicans.

You say the FBI has emails.  And Waldo says they came from the laptop that Rudy got from his trip to Eastern Europe to meet Andrei Derkach Delaware to meet the Magic Laptop Repair Guy. And it makes it easy for me to just file the whole thing in the same wastepaper basket as "her emails!" and "Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi" and all the other nothingburgers Republicans served up for years.


 -k
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 23, 2020, 08:02:50 pm
;D these "supposed emails" were on that most suspect laptop that the "good samaritan" repair shop owner turned over to ColludyRudy! Geezaz member Shady, you're such a simpleton!

Whoa whoa, is that a conspiracy theory?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on December 23, 2020, 11:53:51 pm
;D these "supposed emails" were on that most suspect laptop that the "good samaritan" repair shop owner turned over to ColludyRudy! Geezaz member Shady, you're such a simpleton!
Whoa whoa, is that a conspiracy theory?

as delving in conspiracy is your demonstrated forte, you need to describe it as the waldo deals in, 'just the facts man'!

(https://i.imgur.com/GrMBYG7.jpg)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 08:59:07 am
Whoa whoa, is that a conspiracy theory?
Sure sounds like it!  Doesn't sound like the FBI buys that lame excuse though.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 24, 2020, 10:25:15 am
as delving in conspiracy is your demonstrated forte, you need to describe it as the waldo deals in, 'just the facts man'!

Well ConspiracyWaldo, you don't deal in facts, your demonstrated forte is memes.  "Just the memes man!"  ConspiracyWaldo, don't forget the Trump-inspired insulting nicknames, and now the conspiracy theories.  ;D
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on December 24, 2020, 10:44:44 am
c'mon Gorgeous! You called conspiracy... the waldo is simply asking you to describe your stated/claimed conspiracy. Instead you're feverishly deflecting away - is there a problem, for you?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on December 24, 2020, 02:05:53 pm
New definition of conspiracy theory: asking for proof of another conspiracy theory
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on December 24, 2020, 02:29:22 pm
New definition of conspiracy theory: asking for proof of another conspiracy theory
Like Russia collusion right!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 24, 2020, 03:03:08 pm
Like Russia collusion right!

The left:  Russia collusion!  The right: a hoax!

The right:  Voter fraud in America!  The left:  a hoax!

Interesting times we live in.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on December 24, 2020, 07:08:50 pm
The left:  Russia collusion!  The right: a hoax!

The right:  Voter fraud in America!  The left:  a hoax!

Interesting times we live in.

One happened, one didn't (in any meaningful way). It isn't that interesting.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 26, 2020, 05:22:58 pm
The left:  Russia collusion!  The right: a hoax!
Not exactly correct...

Keep in mind that the Senate (which, as you know, is largely controlled by Moscow Mitch, and has a republican majority) has put out a report which stated that Russia did interfere in the 2016 election.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Intelligence_Committee_report_on_Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election
Senate Intelligence Committee report on Russian interference in the 2016 United States presidential election...is the official report in five volumes documenting the findings and conclusions of the United States Senate Intelligence Committee into Russian efforts against election infrastructure...The Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee submitted the first in their five-volume report in July 2019 in which they concluded that the January 2017 intelligence community assessment alleging Russian interference was "coherent and well-constructed". The first volume also concluded that the assessment was "proper", learning from analysts that there was "no politically motivated pressure to reach specific conclusions".

It is true that there are a lot of MAGAchuds who are parroting Trump's claim that it was a hoax, but republican politicians are admitting that yeah, Russia was involved. I think its speaks volumes when Republican senators admit that. (i.e. its not just Democrats saying "russia interfered".)

Now, it is too bad that the republicans are sort of burring this information in a report (rather than trying to challenge Trump).
Quote
The right:  Voter fraud in America!  The left:  a hoax!
"To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election."
- Bill Barr, Att. General (nominated by Trump, and confirmed by Republican senators)

Again, a lot of republicans have admitted that Trump lost fair-and-square.

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 26, 2020, 05:45:22 pm
One happened, one didn't (in any meaningful way). It isn't that interesting.

Thank you for proving my point.

Russian collusion happened?  Do you have evidence for this claim?

I still think it still may have happened, but I have no evidence for that claim.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 26, 2020, 05:46:21 pm
Not exactly correct...

Keep in mind that the Senate (which, as you know, is largely controlled by Moscow Mitch, and has a republican majority) has put out a report which stated that Russia did interfere in the 2016 election.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Intelligence_Committee_report_on_Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election
Senate Intelligence Committee report on Russian interference in the 2016 United States presidential election...is the official report in five volumes documenting the findings and conclusions of the United States Senate Intelligence Committee into Russian efforts against election infrastructure...The Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee submitted the first in their five-volume report in July 2019 in which they concluded that the January 2017 intelligence community assessment alleging Russian interference was "coherent and well-constructed". The first volume also concluded that the assessment was "proper", learning from analysts that there was "no politically motivated pressure to reach specific conclusions".

It is true that there are a lot of MAGAchuds who are parroting Trump's claim that it was a hoax, but republican politicians are admitting that yeah, Russia was involved. I think its speaks volumes when Republican senators admit that. (i.e. its not just Democrats saying "russia interfered".)

Now, it is too bad that the republicans are sort of burring this information in a report (rather than trying to challenge Trump). "To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election."
- Bill Barr, Att. General (nominated by Trump, and confirmed by Republican senators)

Again, a lot of republicans have admitted that Trump lost fair-and-square.

None of this has anything to do with my point.  Russia interference is totally different than the Trump admin colluding with Russia per that interference.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 26, 2020, 05:58:17 pm
None of this has anything to do with my point.  Russia interference is totally different than the Trump admin colluding with Russia per that interference.
Actually if you read further in the Wikipedia article, it points out that:

According to the report, "some evidence suggests" that Konstantin Kilimnik, to whom Manafort provided polling data, was directly connected to the Russian theft of Clinton-campaign emails. In addition, while Trump's written testimony in the Mueller report stated that he did not recall speaking with Roger Stone about WikiLeaks, the Senate report concludes that "Trump did, in fact, speak with Stone about WikiLeaks and with members of his Campaign about Stone's access to WikiLeaks on multiple occasions".

Now it isn't labelled "collusion" (which would be the wrong legal term anyways... should likely be labelled "conspiracy".) But it does point out very specific incidents of the Trump administration working with Russian actors.

And again, keep in mind that that is from a report from an organization dominated by Republicans... i.e. the people that benefitted most from having Stubby McBonespurs in the white house. If they actually had any sort of integrity, they might have dug a lot deeper.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 26, 2020, 06:23:54 pm
Now it isn't labelled "collusion" (which would be the wrong legal term anyways... should likely be labelled "conspiracy".) But it does point out very specific incidents of the Trump administration working with Russian actors.

And again, keep in mind that that is from a report from an organization dominated by Republicans... i.e. the people that benefitted most from having Stubby McBonespurs in the white house. If they actually had any sort of integrity, they might have dug a lot deeper.

Something very fishy was happening between the Trump campaign and the Russians.  The exact specific nature of this activity still seems...obscured.  The likelihood of collusion or some other kind wrongdoing seems high.  I think the impeachment was the right thing to do.  I'm saying we just still don't have evidence.  There's no smoking gun, hence he was not removed from office.  Maybe one day we'll find out.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 26, 2020, 06:30:04 pm
Something very fishy was happening between the Trump campaign and the Russians.  The exact specific nature of this activity still seems...obscured.  The likelihood of collusion or some other kind wrongdoing seems high.  I think the impeachment was the right thing to do.  I'm saying we just still don't have evidence.  There's no smoking gun, hence he was not removed from office.  Maybe one day we'll find out.

He was not removed from office because his party wingnuts control the senate, ergo no conviction.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 26, 2020, 08:11:14 pm
Something very fishy was happening between the Trump campaign and the Russians.  The exact specific nature of this activity still seems...obscured.  The likelihood of collusion or some other kind wrongdoing seems high.  I think the impeachment was the right thing to do.
Minor point... Trump was impeached for attempting to bribe/blackmail Ukraine into interfering with the 2020 election (by announcing an investigation into Biden's family). None of the articles of impeachment had anything to do with Russian interference (and conspiracy) in the 2016 election.

Quote
I'm saying we just still don't have evidence.
Ummm... yes we do.

As I pointed out before, we have Manafort (You know, the guy who was Trump's campaign manager for a time) giving polling information to a Russian contact. We have Trump (You know, the guy who is actually the "Trump" in "Trump campaign" in discussion with Roger Stone over wikileaks (which got its information from Russian hackers). Sounds to me like there is some evidence there.

And that's just what I pointed out earlier that was part of the senate report. You also have:
- The Trump tower meeting with Russian actors (along with attempts to cover up the meeting)
- Attempts to arrange meetings between Trump and Putin
- Trump publically calling for Russia to "hack" Clinton's emails (and before anyone suggests that it was just some sort of joke/campaign stunt, Trump also followed up with Flynn about that in private)
- Trump's post-election activities with respect to Russia
So yes, there is plenty of evidence regarding the Trump campaign working with Russian actors. And that's just what's known publically. Who knows what is in the redacted portions of the Mueller report, or what might be uncovered with more investigation. But there is enough to definitely conclude that yes, Russia interfered, yes, the Trump campaign was aware of the interference, acted at least partly with the russians, and was receptive to other types of assistance.

It should also be pointed out that neither Mueller nor the senate investigation were actually looking for "collusion"... in part because that is not a precise legal term. Plus, Mueller was constrained by DoJ rules that suggested a sitting president cannot be indicted (as well as the looming threat of having his investigation cut short).

We have all the evidence to describe a criminal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Russians, without anyone in charge actually using that term.  Its a little like saying "We don't have any evidence a bank was robbed.... we just know some people walked into a bank, pulled out a gun, and got the bank teller to give them money".
Quote
There's no smoking gun, hence he was not removed from office.  Maybe one day we'll find out.
Trump was not removed from office because (as another poster indicated) the republicans were in control of congress, and they lack integrity.

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 26, 2020, 08:33:00 pm
Minor point... Trump was impeached for attempting to bribe/blackmail Ukraine into interfering with the 2020 election (by announcing an investigation into Biden's family). None of the articles of impeachment had anything to do with Russian interference (and conspiracy) in the 2016 election.

Yes my mistake.  I meant the investigations and whatnot.

Quote
We have all the evidence to describe a criminal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Russians, without anyone in charge actually using that term.  Its a little like saying "We don't have any evidence a bank was robbed.... we just know some people walked into a bank, pulled out a gun, and got the bank teller to give them money".

I think it's more like accusing Trump & his admin/campaign of selling illegal drugs, because they've been seen hanging out with known drug dealers before and during a big drug deal going down, and then the Trump admin messing with the investigation of possible drug dealing.

Obviously something is very off, and anyone would be an idiot to think something bad didn't go down, and also it just being damning that Trump is conversing with drug dealers at all.  We just don't have footage or emails of Trump dealing drugs.  Whatever the Trump people hid, they hid it well enough, probably knowing Trump could pardon anyone guilty of obstructing justice.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 26, 2020, 08:58:24 pm
Donít confuse Conspiratard Graham with facts....
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 26, 2020, 09:20:16 pm
Quote
We have all the evidence to describe a criminal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Russians, without anyone in charge actually using that term.  Its a little like saying "We don't have any evidence a bank was robbed.... we just know some people walked into a bank, pulled out a gun, and got the bank teller to give them money".
I think it's more like accusing Trump & his admin/campaign of selling illegal drugs, because they've been seen hanging out with known drug dealers before and during a big drug deal going down, and then the Trump admin messing with the investigation of possible drug dealing.
We actually have a little bit more than that.

To use your analogy... its like knowing you associated with known drug dealers, knowing that you texted the drug dealers with a message about the drug deal ahead of time, were seen walking into the drug deal with cash, and afterwards you were seen stoned.
Quote
Obviously something is very off, and anyone would be an idiot to think something bad didn't go down, and also it just being damning that Trump is conversing with drug dealers at all.  We just don't have footage or emails of Trump dealing drugs.  Whatever the Trump people hid, they hid it well enough, probably knowing Trump could pardon anyone guilty of obstructing justice.
I'm not exactly sure what you would consider acceptable evidence... seems like to you, anything short of video of Trump giving oral sex to Putin while he personally hacks the Democratic email servers (while Assange looks on lovingly) wouldn't be enough.

Not really sure how the Trump tower meeting (where one of Trump's spawn says "if its what i think it is, I love it"), or Manafort giving polling information to Russian actors isn't considered acceptable isn't. To use your analogy, its like actually witnessing the drug dealers meeting, but because nobody sent engraved invitations you can't claim that "we know it was a drug deal".

The fact is, everything I have pointed out is evidence. Some of it might be circumstantial, but in the real world, circumstantial evidence is still evidence, and people can and do get convicted in the courts using it.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 26, 2020, 09:32:15 pm
Yes my mistake.  I meant the investigations and whatnot.

I think it's more like accusing Trump & his admin/campaign of selling illegal drugs, because they've been seen hanging out with known drug dealers before and during a big drug deal going down, and then the Trump admin messing with the investigation of possible drug dealing.

Obviously something is very off, and anyone would be an idiot to think something bad didn't go down, and also it just being damning that Trump is conversing with drug dealers at all.  We just don't have footage or emails of Trump dealing drugs.  Whatever the Trump people hid, they hid it well enough, probably knowing Trump could pardon anyone guilty of obstructing justice.

Trumps blatant misuse of the pardon power has given rise to a movement that wants to take a way that pardon power. I can certainly see why considering how donny is using it.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 26, 2020, 09:58:42 pm
Trumps blatant misuse of the pardon power has given rise to a movement that wants to take a way that pardon power. I can certainly see why considering how donny is using it.

It has to be one of the dumbest parts of the American system.  Ripe for corruption.  Itís a bizarre power, in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on December 26, 2020, 10:03:28 pm
Trumps blatant misuse of the pardon power has given rise to a movement that wants to take a way that pardon power. I can certainly see why considering how donny is using it.
Everything Trump touches dies.

Under normal circumstances, giving the ability to pardon/commute a sentence to a president would make some sense... new information can come to light, society norms might have changed, etc. Its a shame that a power that could be a good thing when used by a decent president is now seen as a problem now that its been mishandled by Stubby McBonespurs.

However, for better or worse, removing the ability to pardon would require a constitutional change, and in this polarized environment it is doubtful that it would pass.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 26, 2020, 10:07:07 pm
Donít confuse Conspiratard Graham with facts....

I guess Santa didn't bring you puberty for Christmas, young child.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 26, 2020, 10:08:22 pm
Everything Trump touches dies.

Under normal circumstances, giving the ability to pardon/commute a sentence to a president would make some sense... new information can come to light, society norms might have changed, etc. Its a shame that a power that could be a good thing when used by a decent president is now seen as a problem now that its been mishandled by Stubby McBonespurs.

However, for better or worse, removing the ability to pardon would require a constitutional change, and in this polarized environment it is doubtful that it would pass.

If thereís a problem with laws, or convictions, laws should be changed or new trials should be held.  The power to pardon is dependent on who can get the ear of the president.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 26, 2020, 10:11:43 pm
Trumps blatant misuse of the pardon power has given rise to a movement that wants to take a way that pardon power. I can certainly see why considering how donny is using it.

Yes POTUS pardons are probably the most legal abuse of power a POTUS can use.  It's a disgusting get out of jail free card.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 26, 2020, 10:23:40 pm
Yes POTUS pardons are probably the most legal abuse of power a POTUS can use.  It's a disgusting get out of jail free card.

Well there's a difference between commuting the sentence of a convicted drug trafficker who has already served 35 years behind bars, and allowing a group of convicted murderers who wore US military uniforms to foreign countries and murdered children. Unfortunately some of the trumptards around here don't seem to want to understand the difference. I guess that's why they are trumptards.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 26, 2020, 10:26:33 pm
It has to be one of the dumbest parts of the American system.  Ripe for corruption.  Itís a bizarre power, in my opinion.

It's not so bizzare when we figure American politicians prefer to be immune to crimes.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 26, 2020, 10:30:09 pm
It's not so bizzare when we figure American politicians prefer to be immune to crimes.

Donny thinks he's immune. Boy does he have a surprise coming!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 26, 2020, 10:47:11 pm
The fact is, everything I have pointed out is evidence. Some of it might be circumstantial, but in the real world, circumstantial evidence is still evidence, and people can and do get convicted in the courts using it.

The problem is there's nothing to charge Trump or anyone else (as far as I know) with collusion with Russia.  The people with Trump admin links have been charged on things like fraud, lying to authorities/obstruction, dealings with Ukraine.  Manafort's illegal dealings with pro-Russian Ukrainian officials date back to 2010-2014.  It's all very, very suspicious, and these people are all slime, but it doesn't directly implicate Trump to Russian illegal political interference.  The Dems certainly would have impeached Trump for it if they had found anything.

Trump is directly guilty (not legally, but IMO) in his dealings with Ukraine.  I know he's a scumbag and a criminal, I know some shady Russian dealings very likely were happening, but point is we don't know what, and they haven't been able to nab the guy yet.  Trump obviously can't be trusted.  I don't know what else you want me to say.

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 26, 2020, 10:49:46 pm
Donny thinks he's immune. Boy does he have a surprise coming!

It will be interesting to see if a Biden admin does anything to Trump and his people legally.  I know about the NY possibilities.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 26, 2020, 11:34:57 pm
It will be interesting to see if a Biden admin does anything to Trump and his people legally.  I know about the NY possibilities.
It's nothing do with Biden.  He faces charges of illegal tax evasions, sexual assault and on and on. The courts are in charge of this not Joe for gods sake wake up.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 26, 2020, 11:42:38 pm
It's nothing do with Biden.  He faces charges of illegal tax evasions, sexual assault and on and on. The courts are in charge of this not Joe for gods sake wake up.

You don't think the next POTUS will have influence in the FBI or Justice Dept. etc?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 26, 2020, 11:55:23 pm
You don't think the next POTUS will have influence in the FBI or Justice Dept. etc?

If the next POTUS commits criminal acts such as trump is accused of then let him/her face the courts. Simple enough?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 27, 2020, 12:27:08 am
You don't think the next POTUS will have influence in the FBI or Justice Dept. etc?

I doubt the current POTUS will have such influence and therefore trump may leave the WH and head to jail.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 27, 2020, 02:38:08 am
If the next POTUS commits criminal acts such as trump is accused of then let him/her face the courts. Simple enough?

No I don't understand, please explain more.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on December 27, 2020, 09:17:46 am
You don't think the next POTUS will have influence in the FBI or Justice Dept. etc?

I think Trumpís recent court experiences show that influence has limits.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on December 27, 2020, 12:13:56 pm
Trumps blatant misuse of the pardon power has given rise to a movement that wants to take a way that pardon power. I can certainly see why considering how donny is using it.

In a parliamentary system, Trump would right now be a caretaker, with very little power. Something needs to change in the US. This is too much power, for a sore loser to hold, for such a long time.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on December 27, 2020, 12:20:31 pm
In a parliamentary system, Trump would right now be a caretaker, with very little power. Something needs to change in the US. This is too much power, for a sore loser to hold, for such a long time.

Being an actual caretaker is probably about all he is competent to do. In any case with just over 3 weeks to go I am counting down to see just how he leaves the WH on the 20th. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on December 27, 2020, 03:06:17 pm
In a parliamentary system, Trump would right now be a caretaker, with very little power. Something needs to change in the US. This is too much power, for a sore loser to hold, for such a long time.

How do you figure that?  With a majority Trump wouldn't even have been impeached.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on December 27, 2020, 03:12:26 pm
In a parliamentary system, Trump would right now be a caretaker, with very little power. Something needs to change in the US. This is too much power, for a sore loser to hold, for such a long time.

In a parliamentary system, the existing government is only a caretaker from the time the writ is dropped until the votes are counted. Trump would have been out the door on Nov 5.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on December 27, 2020, 03:44:48 pm
In a parliamentary system, the existing government is only a caretaker from the time the writ is dropped until the votes are counted. Trump would have been out the door on Nov 5.

There's usually about a 2 week change over period.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on December 27, 2020, 03:46:00 pm
How do you figure that?  With a majority Trump wouldn't even have been impeached.

Between the time that a writ is dropped until the new government is sworn in, the government has very limited powers. Confidence is required before they return to normal status.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 11:42:19 am
Not good news for ol'Joe Biden.

"I can assure you I will not vote to end the filibuster" - Senator Joe Manchin, (D) West Virginia
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/30/us/politics/joe-manchin-interview.html
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 11:54:42 am
Not good news for ol'Joe Biden.

"I can assure you I will not vote to end the filibuster" - Senator Joe Manchin, (D) West Virginia
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/30/us/politics/joe-manchin-interview.html

They really need to primary that piece of ****.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 11:58:31 am
They really need to primary that piece of ****.
LOL, primary him in West Virginia?  Good luck with that!  West Virginia voted for Trump 70% to 30%.  You think a far left Democrat is gonna win an election there?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 12:10:23 pm
LOL, primary him in West Virginia?  Good luck with that!  West Virginia voted for Trump 70% to 30%.  You think a far left Democrat is gonna win an election there?

Never know until you try. if you run a progressive and lose, you haven't really lost anything when the alternative is a DINO like Manchnin.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 12:19:04 pm
Never know until you try. if you run a progressive and lose, you haven't really lost anything when the alternative is a DINO like Manchnin.
Complete nonsense.  Machin is very much a democrat, but the party very far left.  There's no room for the middle of the country anymore.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 08, 2021, 12:28:40 pm
The party is very left, and yet you have argued that Biden won't be able to accomplish a progressive agenda because the party is too right.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 12:30:18 pm
Complete nonsense.  Machin is very much a democrat, but the party very far left.  There's no room for the middle of the country anymore.

LMAO

He voted in line with Trump 51.2% of the time in the last session. In 2019-20, he voted against a majority of Senate Democrats 174 times (24.8%) compared to the average Senate Democrat who voted against his or her party 11.0% of the time. He's a Republican.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 08, 2021, 01:26:05 pm
LOL, primary him in West Virginia?  Good luck with that!  West Virginia voted for Trump 70% to 30%.  You think a far left Democrat is gonna win an election there?

Maybe some day, Democrats can even win seats in Georgia.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 01:48:08 pm
Maybe some day, Democrats can even win seats in Georgia.

I'm still cackling at the idea of a party led by Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi is "very far left" but I guess when you're somewhere between Thatcher and Pinochet on the spectrum everyone looks far left.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 03:10:04 pm
LMAO

He voted in line with Trump 51.2% of the time in the last session. In 2019-20, he voted against a majority of Senate Democrats 174 times (24.8%) compared to the average Senate Democrat who voted against his or her party 11.0% of the time. He's a Republican.
He's elected to represent the people of his state.  The people of his state voted for Trump to the tune of 70%.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 03:11:13 pm
I'm still cackling at the idea of a party led by Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi is "very far left" but I guess when you're somewhere between Thatcher and Pinochet on the spectrum everyone looks far left.
Biden is somewhat centrist, but Pelosi is a far leftwing San Fransciso liberal.  Cackle all you want, it's all you have.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 03:11:37 pm
Maybe some day, Democrats can even win seats in Georgia.
Why?  They have many times in the past.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 03:17:29 pm
Biden is somewhat centrist, but Pelosi is a far leftwing San Fransciso liberal.  Cackle all you want, it's all you have.

Nancy Pelosi, the multi-millionaire who regularly strangles any progressive measures from her own party and is basically an establishment puppet, is a far leftist. Staggering stupidity, even from you. I hope when you die you give your body to science so they can figure out how a guy with a glob of rancid oatmeal where his brain should be figured out how to use the internet.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 03:19:06 pm
He's elected to represent the people of his state.  The people of his state voted for Trump to the tune of 70%.

What would you call someone who represents Republican, votes with Republicans and supports the Republican president more than 50% of the time, it's right on the tip of my tongue but I know it starts with the letter R.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on January 08, 2021, 03:28:42 pm
LMAO

He voted in line with Trump 51.2% of the time in the last session. In 2019-20, he voted against a majority of Senate Democrats 174 times (24.8%) compared to the average Senate Democrat who voted against his or her party 11.0% of the time. He's a Republican.

Now don't confuse shady with facts. ;D
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 03:36:29 pm
What would you call someone who represents Republican, votes with Republicans and supports the Republican president more than 50% of the time, it's right on the tip of my tongue but I know it starts with the letter R.
Barely more than 50%.  I'd call him somebody representing his constituents.  It's a Republican state, and not by a little, by a whole lot.  Go ahead and primary him.  You'll just end up with a Republican taking that seat, which is going to be what happens anyways.  Or he might just switch parties.  Maybe soon!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 03:39:11 pm
Barely more than 50%.  I'd call them somebody representing their constituents.  Go ahead and primary him.  You'll just end up with a Republican taking that seat, which is going to be what happens anyways.  Or he might just switch parties.  Maybe soon!

So nothing would actually change.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2021, 03:50:50 pm
Watched Biden's press conference. He is done with Trump since Wednesday. When asked about Trump not attending the Inaugural he said that is one of the only things he and Trump agree on. When asked about Pence attending, Biden said he would be very welcome. He absolutely trashed Cruz, Hawley etc while being very complimentary to other Republicans who had reached out to him, mentioning McConnell and Romney by name.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 03:52:28 pm
Watched Biden's press conference. He is done with Trump since Wednesday. When asked about Trump not attending the Inaugural he said that is one of the only things he and Trump agree on. When asked about Pence attending, Biden said he would be very welcome. He absolutely trashed Cruz, Hawley etc while being very complimentary to other Republicans who had reached out to him, mentioning McConnell and Romney by name.


Is there an eyeroll emoji?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2021, 03:55:53 pm

Is there an eyeroll emoji?

Why, do prefer continual warfare or do you think things should actually get done?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on January 08, 2021, 03:56:27 pm
Watched Biden's press conference. He is done with Trump since Wednesday. When asked about Trump not attending the Inaugural he said that is one of the only things he and Trump agree on. When asked about Pence attending, Biden said he would be very welcome. He absolutely trashed Cruz, Hawley etc while being very complimentary to other Republicans who had reached out to him, mentioning McConnell and Romney by name.

I watched a good portion of it as well and I must conclude that, even as not an American, I look forward to a chance for a return to normalcy when Biden takes the helm.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 03:58:48 pm
Why, do prefer continual warfare or do you think things should actually get done?

Continual warfare has served the Republicans just fine for the last 12 years, why are the Democrats always the ones who have to compromise?

I mean praising Mitch f*ckin McConnell after everything he's pulled? That's some snivelling worm stuff right there.

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2021, 04:07:55 pm
Continual warfare has served the Republicans just fine for the last 12 years, why are the Democrats always the ones who have to compromise?

I mean praising Mitch f*ckin McConnell after everything he's pulled? That's some snivelling worm stuff right there.

I despise McConnell as well but I have the luxury of not having to work with him.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 08, 2021, 04:09:05 pm
Re: Biden being 'nice' to certain republicans...
Why, do prefer continual warfare or do you think things should actually get done?
For the past decade, the republicans have been hyper-partisan. (For an example, look at how judicial confirmations were handled. Or the way the republican health care plan was crafted as compared to Obamacare.) While republicans like Moscow Mitch may seem reasonable now, it is really just empty rhetoric. The moment congress gets back to business, any pretense of bipartisanship on their part will have vanished, and Biden will have to deal with obstructionist republicans.

Democrats need to play hardball. They won't get any sort of co-operation from the republican side.

Hopefully Biden recognizes that, and his comments about the republicans who "reached out to him" were just as empty as the rhetoric that was coming from the likes of Moscow Mitch.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 04:12:55 pm
I despise McConnell as well but I have the luxury of not having to work with him.

Do you think McConnell is someone they can actually work with?

There was a bit in Obama's recent memoir where he and Biden were trying to get Mitch onboard with some piece of legislation by explaining its benefits and McConnell's response was "why would you think I give a ****?"
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 04:16:18 pm
Re: Biden being 'nice' to certain republicans...For the past decade, the republicans have been hyper-partisan. (For an example, look at how judicial confirmations were handled. Or the way the republican health care plan was crafted as compared to Obamacare.) While republicans like Moscow Mitch may seem reasonable now, it is really just empty rhetoric. The moment congress gets back to business, any pretense of bipartisanship on their part will have vanished, and Biden will have to deal with obstructionist republicans.

Democrats need to play hardball. They won't get any sort of co-operation from the republican side.

Hopefully Biden recognizes that, and his comments about the republicans who "reached out to him" were just as empty as the rhetoric that was coming from the likes of Moscow Mitch.

Maybe they will see how bad that is for them and the country and will work with Joe and also Lucy will for sure let me kick the football this time!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 04:28:26 pm
Re: Biden being 'nice' to certain republicans...For the past decade, the republicans have been hyper-partisan. (For an example, look at how judicial confirmations were handled. Or the way the republican health care plan was crafted as compared to Obamacare.) While republicans like Moscow Mitch may seem reasonable now, it is really just empty rhetoric. The moment congress gets back to business, any pretense of bipartisanship on their part will have vanished, and Biden will have to deal with obstructionist republicans.

Democrats need to play hardball. They won't get any sort of co-operation from the republican side.

Hopefully Biden recognizes that, and his comments about the republicans who "reached out to him" were just as empty as the rhetoric that was coming from the likes of Moscow Mitch.
Complete nonsense.  Nanjing Nancy refused to make a deal on covid relief during the fall because she thought it would help Democrats in the election.  Sheís as f**king despicable and partisan as it gets.  Democrats also filibustered Bush judicial nominees and then removed the judicial filibuster as soon as they had the chance when Obama was president. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 04:35:36 pm
Complete nonsense.  Nanjing Nancy refused to make a deal on covid relief during the fall because she thought it would help Democrats in the election.  Sheís as f**king despicable and partisan as it gets.  Democrats also filibustered Bush judicial nominees and then removed the judicial filibuster as soon as they had the chance when Obama was president.

"Waaah it's mean when the other side does the stuff we do all the time waaaah."
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 08, 2021, 04:55:28 pm
Why, do prefer continual warfare or do you think things should actually get done?

Mentioning Romney is one thing, but McConnell doesn't deserve any recognition for accepting Biden a month after the election. 

Especially now that the turtle just got demoted, there is zero need to reach out to him now after all the BS he pulled with SCOTUS. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2021, 05:12:25 pm
Mentioning Romney is one thing, but McConnell doesn't deserve any recognition for accepting Biden a month after the election. 

Especially now that the turtle just got demoted, there is zero need to reach out to him now after all the BS he pulled with SCOTUS.

McConnell has plenty of problems in his own party, catering to the crazies is no longer a winning strategy. Even though the Democrats control the Senate the Republicans can still be very obstructive and a more malleable McConnell wouldn't hurt. On the other hand, he might also get turfed as Republican Senate leader. The Republicans are in such a shambles, anything can happen.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 08, 2021, 05:51:42 pm
McConnell has plenty of problems in his own party, catering to the crazies is no longer a winning strategy. Even though the Democrats control the Senate the Republicans can still be very obstructive and a more malleable McConnell wouldn't hurt. On the other hand, he might also get turfed as Republican Senate leader. The Republicans are in such a shambles, anything can happen.
It would not matter whether Biden praised McConnell, telling him how wonderful he was and that he was a credit to all turtles everywhere, or called McConnell out for his B.S., pointing out that he enabled Trump for the past 4 years, and deserves some of the blame for the deaths at the capitol...

Moscow Mitch will always act in the best interests of Moscow Mitch and the Republicans. They have no interest in compromise, or in what's best for the country. If that means blocking Biden's proposed legislature for no other reason than its from the Democrats, then he will do so.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 05:53:36 pm
McConnell has plenty of problems in his own party, catering to the crazies is no longer a winning strategy. Even though the Democrats control the Senate the Republicans can still be very obstructive and a more malleable McConnell wouldn't hurt. On the other hand, he might also get turfed as Republican Senate leader. The Republicans are in such a shambles, anything can happen.

Except the Republicans have zero incentive to work with Biden and the Dems and every reason to try and undercut them every step of the way so they can win in the mid terms and 2024.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 08, 2021, 06:07:48 pm
McConnell has plenty of problems in his own party, catering to the crazies is no longer a winning strategy. Even though the Democrats control the Senate the Republicans can still be very obstructive and a more malleable McConnell wouldn't hurt. On the other hand, he might also get turfed as Republican Senate leader. The Republicans are in such a shambles, anything can happen.

Democrats hold all the cards, they don't need Republicans for anything now that they have both chambers and the executive. 

I don't see things changing for a while either, not because the Democrats are popular, but because Trump destroyed the GOP.  The base hates anyone who didn't support the seditionists and the seditionists lost the respect of moderates and independents.

Romney didn't wait until the house was on fire to show courage, it makes sense to reach out to him.

McConnell should GFH.   

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 06:10:32 pm
"Waaah it's mean when the other side does the stuff we do all the time waaaah."
No.  The Republicans never got rid of the judicial filibuster.  Not even when Bush was president.  It was unprecedented by the Democrats when they got rid of it. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 06:14:08 pm
Democrats hold all the cards, they don't need Republicans for anything now that they have both chambers and the executive. 

I don't see things changing for a while either, not because the Democrats are popular, but because Trump destroyed the GOP.  The base hates anyone who didn't support the seditionists and the seditionists lost the respect of moderates and independents.

Romney didn't wait until the house was on fire to show courage, it makes sense to reach out to him.

McConnell should GFH.
You donít know what youíre talking about.  They canít do anything substantial without Republican support.  And Democrats arenít popular.  Thatís why even with Biden winning, they lost 10 seats in the house, only picked up 2 seats in the senate and that was this week.  And they didnít pick up a single state legislature in a redistricting year.  All swing states will be redistricted by Republicans this year that will last until the beginning of the next decade.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 06:23:48 pm
The senate is the problem child of America. 

A majority of states with a minority of population, who happen to be backwater religious whack-jobs, control government.

The 53 Republican senators represent 15 million less people than the 47 Democrat senators.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on January 08, 2021, 06:45:22 pm
The senate is the problem child of America. 

A majority of states with a minority of population, who happen to be backwater religious whack-jobs, control government.

The 53 Republican senators represent 15 million less people than the 47 Democrat senators.

It was designed that way.  The country isn't called the United Citizens of America.  You get your representation by population in the House (which isn't perfectly rep by pop i know).  The system was designed so the states can't dominate the individual citizens, and the citizens can't dominate the states.  It's a system based on checks and balances via broad consent and compromise.

In Canada there are fewer checks and balances.  The Senate and the GG are essentially rubber stamps by convention and are chosen by the same people who make the laws, and there's no executive veto because there's no separation of powers between the executive and legislature.  If Trump was the PM and was re-elected long enough, in a majority he could have control of the legislature and also hand-pick the GG and most of the Senate and Supreme Court while also having no term limits for himself.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 06:47:56 pm
It was designed that way.  The country isn't called the United Citizens of America.  You get your representation by population in the House (which isn't perfectly rep by pop i know).  The system was designed so the states can't dominate the individual citizens, and the citizens can't dominate the states.  It's a system based on checks and balances via broad consent and compromise.

In Canada there are fewer checks and balances.  The Senate and the GG are essentially rubber stamps by convention and are chosen by the same people who make the laws, and there's no executive veto because there's no separation of powers between the executive and legislature.  If Trump was the PM and was re-elected long enough, in a majority he could have control of the legislature and also hand-pick the GG and most of the Senate and Supreme Court while also having no term limits for himself.
Exactly.  The senate is designed to be a cooling mechanism of the legislative branch of the federal government.  Many people are ignorant of that fact.  Especially Canadians.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on January 08, 2021, 06:50:05 pm
The senate is the problem child of America. 

A majority of states with a minority of population, who happen to be backwater religious whack-jobs, control government.

The 53 Republican senators represent 15 million less people than the 47 Democrat senators.

Agreed, the situation is even worse than EC for the senate, but there is a genuine backlash right now against Lindsay Graham, Mitch McConnell, Tom Cotton et al, from the base.  Of course, many may hold their nose and vote for them anyway, but if Trumpism continues its threat against those that didn't kiss the ring, things could continue to get worse for the party. 

The Trumps have openly said they'd support primaries against the establishment and they're petty enough to burn the party down out of pride.  It'll be interesting to see Trumpism cannibalize the Republican party and where things head from here. 

I think Dems will be the biggest benefactors, even without making any constitutional changes, adding states or dividing existing ones.  For the next little while anyway.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 08, 2021, 06:50:56 pm
It was designed that way.  The country isn't called the United Citizens of America.

Yes, it was designed poorly.

Quote
In Canada there are fewer checks and balances.

If you think that a caretaker PM without the benefit of confidence could be as dangerous as Trump is right now, I can't help you.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 07:11:51 pm
Yes, it was designed poorly.
No it was designed perfectly.  Itís better for things to be a bit slower than too fast.  You should read a book on the founders intent.  Things might make more sense to you and the other pseudo-superior sounding members of the forum.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 08, 2021, 07:13:16 pm
No it was designed perfectly.

It's a comparatively shitty system of government. The US is like the only first world country to use it.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2021, 07:15:09 pm
No it was designed perfectly.  Itís better for things to be a bit slower than too fast.  You should read a book on the founders intent.  Things might make more sense to you and the other pseudo-superior sounding members of the forum.

The foundersí intent was to preserve slavery and their own wealth.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 07:15:27 pm
It was designed that way.  The country isn't called the United Citizens of America.  You get your representation by population in the House (which isn't perfectly rep by pop i know).  The system was designed so the states can't dominate the individual citizens, and the citizens can't dominate the states.  It's a system based on checks and balances via broad consent and compromise.

Itís very bad design when Wyoming has as much political power as California.  Itís actually idiotic.

Why would states be more important than citizens in a democracy?

Consent?  No...  a minority can rule over the majority.  Thatís not consent.


Quote
In Canada there are fewer checks and balances.  The Senate and the GG are essentially rubber stamps by convention and are chosen by the same people who make the laws, and there's no executive veto because there's no separation of powers between the executive and legislature.  If Trump was the PM and was re-elected long enough, in a majority he could have control of the legislature and also hand-pick the GG and most of the Senate and Supreme Court while also having no term limits for himself.

ďIf Trump was the PMĒ...  except Trump couldnít get near the PM, nor could he have retained the confidence of the House.  In theory, America is amazing... well...  if you listen to Americans tell it at least.  In reality, itís a shitshow that doesnít work as well as any other western democracy.  They are near the bottom of the list of western democracies in terms of liberty, freedoms, corruption, etc.

#25 on the list of the Democracy Index.  Canada is tied for 7th.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

So if you actually have measurable, they suck...   if you buy in to the bullshit jingoism, like yourself, then I guess theyíre great.

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 07:17:37 pm
It's a comparatively shitty system of government. The US is like the only first world country to use it.
Thatís not an argument.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 07:18:47 pm
The foundersí intent was to preserve slavery and their own wealth.
Complete nonsense.  Slavery wasnít even part of the constitution, it was actually in violation of it.  Youíre a clown. 🤡
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2021, 07:20:24 pm


If you think that a caretaker PM without the benefit of confidence could be as dangerous as Trump is right now, I can't help you.

A Trump as a majority PM with the power of political life and death over his caucus is a frightening thought. A PM has more power over his caucus members than a President does over American legislators
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on January 08, 2021, 07:20:48 pm
Yes, it was designed poorly.

You only think it's designed poorly because the party you support can't have more control of the government.  It's designed specifically to prevent what you want to happen, which means it's doing its job as intended.  In order to get laws passed you need the consent of the representatives of both the citizens and the states, and passing a POTUS veto.  What would be the point of having both a House and a Senate if they were both based on rep by pop, it would be redundant.

The framers never had Democrats or Republicans or any party in mind when they designed the system because those parties weren't even around at that time.

Quote
If you think that a caretaker PM without the benefit of confidence could be as dangerous as Trump is right now, I can't help you.

And what if he had confidence?  What if he bullied everyone out of his party caucus who didn't support him?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2021, 07:24:27 pm
Complete nonsense.  Slavery wasnít even part of the constitution, it was actually in violation of it.  Youíre a clown. 🤡

It wasn't a violation, slaves weren't even considered people when the Constitution was written. The first two Presidents were slave holders. A total of 12 presidents owned slaves at some time in their lives.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 08, 2021, 07:25:05 pm
You only think it's designed poorly because the party you support can't have more control of the government.  It's designed specifically to prevent what you want to happen, which means it's doing its job as intended.

It does nothing but create gridlock, and disenfranchise the majority. You protect against tyranny with a strong bill of rights, not by creating a different form a tyranny. 

Quote
And what if he had confidence?  What if he bullied everyone out of his party caucus who didn't support him?

What if I were a horse?

We've seen in the UK and Australia what happens when the leader tries to bully the caucus.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 08, 2021, 07:25:38 pm
A Trump as a majority PM with the power of political life and death over his caucus is a frightening thought. A PM has more power over his caucus members than a President does over American legislators

That's only because caucus goes along with that.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 07:26:37 pm
A Trump as a majority PM with the power of political life and death over his caucus is a frightening thought. A PM has more power over his caucus members than a President does over American legislators
Well said!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 07:28:48 pm
You only think it's designed poorly because the party you support can't have more control of the government.  It's designed specifically to prevent what you want to happen, which means it's doing its job as intended.  In order to get laws passed you need the consent of the representatives of both the citizens and the states, and passing a POTUS veto.  What would be the point of having both a House and a Senate if they were both based on rep by pop, it would be redundant.

The framers never had Democrats or Republicans or any party in mind when they designed the system because those parties weren't even around at that time.

And what if he had confidence?  What if he bullied everyone out of his party caucus who didn't support him?
Exactly.  Nobody ever thinks of the consequences of their power grabs when the opposition controls power.  Democrats eliminated the judicial filibuster for Obama.  That led to Trump appointing 3 justices in one term.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2021, 07:31:14 pm
That's only because caucus goes along with that.

The US senate should be an object lesson on how that can happen.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 07:32:46 pm
That's only because caucus goes along with that.
Thatís because a PM has fundraising control over individual members.  In the United States, members can raise their own money and have independence from the president.  The president has less control over members of the house and senate.  Thatís a good thing.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 07:34:39 pm
Complete nonsense.  Slavery wasnít even part of the constitution, it was actually in violation of it.  Youíre a clown. 🤡

Are you really this fuckin' stupid?

Quote
Slavery was implicitly recognized in the original Constitution in provisions such as Article I, Section 2, Clause 3, commonly known as the Three-Fifths Compromise, which provided that three-fifths of each state's enslaved population (ďother personsĒ) was to be added to its free population for the purposes of apportioning seats in the United States House of Representatives and direct taxes among the states.
. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

You really had NO idea that slavery was part of the USA constitution, did you?  You really are THAT clueless about stuff you claim to know something about...  wow. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 07:36:40 pm
Are you really this fuckin' stupid?
. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

You really had NO idea that slavery was part of the USA constitution, did you?  You really are THAT clueless about stuff you claim to know something about...  wow.
And why were they three fifths?  Also, implicit means implied though not plainly expressed.  So yes, slavery was not part of the constitution.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 07:39:43 pm
And why were they three fifths?  Also, implicit means implied though not plainly expressed.  So yes, slavery was not part of the constitution.

Let's go back to the part where you said slavery wasn't in the Constitution....  why were you wrong about something so simple and basic? 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2021, 07:41:27 pm


We've seen in the UK and Australia what happens when the leader tries to bully the caucus.

Party discipline is much more strict in Canada. If you vote against the government in Canada you are instantly turfed from caucus. Brit MP's voting against the government is not unusual at all.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 07:43:00 pm
Let's go back to the part where you said slavery wasn't in the Constitution....  why were you wrong about something so simple and basic?
Itís not.  Slavery in no way is outlined, ratified, explained, given right to, etc.  It existed before the constitution.  The three fifths was a compromise between non-slave stateís and slave states.  Non-slaves states didnít want three fifths, they wanted slaves to not count at all.  Zero.  Slave states wanted slaves to count as full citizens.  They compromised at three fifths.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 07:43:09 pm
And why were they three fifths?  Also, implicit means implied though not plainly expressed.  So yes, slavery was not part of the constitution.

Did you know about this part of the Constitution?

Quote
Article 1, Section 9, Clause 1, is one of a handful of provisions in the original Constitution related to slavery, though it does not use the word ďslave.Ē This Clause prohibited the federal government from limiting the importation of ďpersonsĒ (understood at the time to mean primarily enslaved African persons) where the existing state governments saw fit to allow it, until some twenty years after the Constitution took effect. It was a compromise between Southern states, where slavery was pivotal to the economy, and states where the abolition of slavery had been accomplished or was contemplated.

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/article-i/clauses/761

Or do you still insist that there were no references to slavery in the constitution? 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 07:44:10 pm
Itís not.  Slavery in no way is outlined, ratified, explained, given right to, etc.  It existed before the constitution.  The three fifths was a compromise between non-slave stateís and slave states.  Non-slaves states didnít want three fifths, they wanted slaves to not count at all.  Zero.  Slave states wanted slaves to count as full citizens.

Slave states wanted slaves to count for funding, not to be citizens.   ::)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 08, 2021, 07:44:52 pm
Party discipline is much more strict in Canada. If you vote against the government in Canada you are instantly turfed from caucus. Brit MP's voting against the government is not unusual at all.

We're talking about a hypothetical mad man. They can't turf everyone.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 07:44:56 pm
Complete nonsense.  Slavery wasnít even part of the constitution, it was actually in violation of it.  Youíre a clown. 🤡

I'm quoting this again...  because now Shady is changing what he said he said.  LOL

So it WAS part of the constitution, right Shady?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 07:45:59 pm
Slave states wanted slaves to count for funding, not to be citizens.   ::)
No, your wrong again.  They wanted them to count as citizens.  This would add to their state populations which would give them more political power.  As the number of seats in the federal government is based on population.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 07:49:54 pm
No, your wrong again.  They wanted them to count as citizens.  This would add to their state populations which would give them more political power.  As the number of seats in the federal government is based on population.


Slaves would count as three-fifths of a person.  They had no rights as citizens. 


Quote
The Three-fifths Compromise was a compromise reached among state delegates during the 1787 United States Constitutional Convention. Delegates disputed whether and how slaves would be counted when determining a state's total population, as this number would determine a state's number of seats in the House of Representatives and how much it would pay in taxes. The compromise counted three out of every five slaves as people, giving the Southern states a third more seats in Congress and a third more electoral votes than if slaves had been ignored, but fewer than if slaves and free people had been counted equally.

So we can say that slavery is in the Constitution, right?  Because this is what you said:

Quote
Slavery wasnít even part of the constitution, it was actually in violation of it.

You said slavery was "in violation of the Constitution". 

How so...?  Please explain how it was against the original Constitution.

(this is where you should run away from this thread for a while....)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 07:53:26 pm

Slaves would count as three-fifths of a person.  They had no rights as citizens. 


So we can say that slavery is in the Constitution, right?  Because this is what you said:

You said slavery was "in violation of the Constitution". 

How so...?  Please explain how it was against the original Constitution.

(this is where you should run away from this thread for a while....)
Yes, amd slave stateís wanted them to count as a full person.  Youíre even more ignorant than I thought.  Read a book once in a while. JFC.

The Three-fifths Compromise was a compromise reached among state delegates during the 1787 United States Constitutional Convention. Delegates disputed whether and how slaves would be counted when determining a state's total population, as this number would determine a state's number of seats in the House of Representatives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-fifths_Compromise
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 08:02:11 pm
Yes, amd slave stateís wanted them to count as a full person.  Youíre even more ignorant than I thought.  Read a book once in a while. JFC.

The Three-fifths Compromise was a compromise reached among state delegates during the 1787 United States Constitutional Convention. Delegates disputed whether and how slaves would be counted when determining a state's total population, as this number would determine a state's number of seats in the House of Representatives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-fifths_Compromise

You just quoted the exact same thing I did, and then said I was ignorant about it.  LOL.  Idiot. 



How was slavery against the original version of the constitution? 


You claimed it.  Answer.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: guest78 on January 08, 2021, 08:11:41 pm
You just quoted the exact same thing I did, and then said I was ignorant about it.  LOL.  Idiot. 



How was slavery against the original version of the constitution? 


You claimed it.  Answer.
No I didnít, stop pretending to be obtuse.  Or maybe youíre not pretending.  Trolls gonna troll though.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 08:14:49 pm
No I didnít, stop pretending to be obtuse.  Or maybe youíre not pretending.  Trolls gonna troll though.


Shady quoted:
The Three-fifths Compromise was a compromise reached among state delegates during the 1787 United States Constitutional Convention. Delegates disputed whether and how slaves would be counted when determining a state's total population, as this number would determine a state's number of seats in the House of Representatives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-fifths_Compromise



I quoted:

Slavery was implicitly recognized in the original Constitution in provisions such as Article I, Section 2, Clause 3, commonly known as the Three-Fifths Compromise, which provided that three-fifths of each state's enslaved population (ďother personsĒ) was to be added to its free population for the purposes of apportioning seats in the United States House of Representatives and direct taxes among the states.
. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution




Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 08:15:44 pm
I'm quoting this again...  because now Shady is changing what he said he said.  LOL

So it WAS part of the constitution, right Shady?

Shady...  you forgot to answer the question above in your latest post.  I put it in big quotes for you. Even.  You must have missed it.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2021, 08:34:13 pm
We're talking about a hypothetical mad man. They can't turf everyone.

Yes they can if the caucus doesn't show unity and turf the PM first. I would hope that would happen but it didn't with the US Senate when Trump had no direct power over senators.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on January 08, 2021, 08:38:15 pm
It does nothing but create gridlock,
It's supposed to create gridlock.  Gridlock means laws typically can't get passed without broad agreement or compromise between the House, Senate, and the POTUS.  That means it's usually pretty hard to pass bad federal laws or ones a large # of voters or states dislike, and by chance they do the House of Reps and a bunch of senators are up for reelection every 2 years.

In Canada 40% of the electorate can vote a majority party into power that has the ability to decide all of the bills while the other parties can just sit and ask questions.  And then there's a stark hierarchy within that majority party itself on who decides what.

Quote
and disenfranchise the majority.
At the cost of possibly disenfranchising the states?  The USA is a union of states, it's a federation.  It's not simply 300 million and majority rules.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 08:45:25 pm
Provide a cite where the senate was ďsupposed to create gridlockĒ.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2021, 09:00:55 pm
Provide a cite where the senate was ďsupposed to create gridlockĒ.

It is supposed to provide balance between the tyranny of a majority and the country as a whole.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 09:03:07 pm
It is supposed to provide balance between the tyranny of a majority and the country as a whole.

Not what i asked, or what was claimed.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 08, 2021, 09:12:47 pm
It is supposed to provide balance between the tyranny of a majority and the country as a whole.

That's what a bill of rights is for. Any system of government that prevents governing is garbage.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 08, 2021, 09:14:10 pm
In Canada 40% of the electorate can vote a majority party into power that has the ability to decide all of the bills while the other parties can just sit and ask questions.

That's because we have a multi party democracy.

Quote
At the cost of possibly disenfranchising the states? 

States are artificial constructs, unlike people.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 08, 2021, 09:14:31 pm
Re: Purpose of the U.S. senate...
It is supposed to provide balance between the tyranny of a majority and the country as a whole.
First of all, I think such protections are better done by the court system and the constitution rather than the senate.

Secondly, even if there was justification for a senate to "protect the minority "of the electorate at one point, it could be argued that currently has taken the process too far. In 1790, the biggest state (by population) was roughly 12 times the size of the smallest. In 2010, the biggest state is now over 60 times the smallest. The increase in the disparity of each state's population means that what might have been a reasonable system centuries ago is now seen as giving TOO MUCH political power to the smaller states.

The way the current system works, it seems to be replacing "tyranny of the majority" with "tyranny of the minority", as smaller states seem to be able to dictate to larger states (through things like judicial appointments) how they should function.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 09:18:38 pm

States are artificial constructs, unlike people.

Exactly...   why would a state of 300,000 citizens be as important as a state as 35,000,000 citizens??  A state is just some borders.  Change the borders, and suddenly your state has millions of more people.  Itís meaningless.

Makes zero sense.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 08, 2021, 09:19:54 pm
At the cost of possibly disenfranchising the states?  The USA is a union of states, it's a federation.  It's not simply 300 million and majority rules.
It would still be a "union of states", even if they revamped their political system to either reduce the influence of the senate, or adjusted the weighting of the senate.

States would still have significant authority in their own spheres of influence, and voters in those states would not necessarily be ignored. (They would just be less able to dictate the terms by which the remainder of the country functions.)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 08, 2021, 11:47:56 pm
Exactly...   why would a state of 300,000 citizens be as important as a state as 35,000,000 citizens??  A state is just some borders.  Change the borders, and suddenly your state has millions of more people.  Itís meaningless.

Makes zero sense.

If you just do it by population the country would be run by both coasts plus Texas. It's rep by pop in the house and legislation can only be made by the house.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 09, 2021, 12:02:50 am
If you just do it by population the country would be run by both coasts plus Texas. It's rep by pop in the house and legislation can only be made by the house.

Where the people are = where the representation should come from.   What did I say in my post that you disagree with?

Why should Wyoming population 300,000 have as much political representation in the senate as California population 35 million?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on January 09, 2021, 06:34:26 am
Where the people are = where the representation should come from.   What did I say in my post that you disagree with?

Why should Wyoming population 300,000 have as much political representation in the senate as California population 35 million?

This makes sense, but there is an idea that people on the geographical margins, where the population is lower, should have slightly more influence otherwise they will be utterly neglected.  So, Nunavut gets overrepresented and so on.  There's still going to be more attention paid to Ontario but there you go.

This natural tension can and will create a breaking point, as it seems to have in the US. 

In Canada, we actually have a more tangible and visible separate factor from provinces too. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 09, 2021, 10:46:58 am
The moment congress gets back to business, any pretense of bipartisanship on their part will have vanished, and Biden will have to deal with obstructionist republicans.

Democrats need to play hardball. They won't get any sort of co-operation from the republican side.

Hopefully Biden recognizes that, and his comments about the republicans who "reached out to him" were just as empty as the rhetoric that was coming from the likes of Moscow Mitch.
He should probably stop reaching out if that's the case. Biden's main focus should be on the midterm election and admitting Puerta Rico to the union asap. Republicans will be racing to do everything they can at the state level to rig the next vote so Democrats should rig the next electorate.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 09, 2021, 10:50:08 am
Enfranchising Puerto Rico is not rigging anything.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 09, 2021, 11:07:29 am
Complete nonsense.  Slavery wasnít even part of the constitution, it was actually in violation of it.  Youíre a clown. 🤡

Article 1, Section 9, Clause 1 specifically prohibited Congress from banning the importation of slaves:

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 was known as the fugitive slave clause:

No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

And of course, the 3/5ths compromise implicitly endorsed slavery by counting slaves as part of the population while not affording them any rights or representation.

In conclusion: suck my balls, you dumb choad.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 09, 2021, 11:11:15 am
If you just do it by population the country would be run by both coasts plus Texas. It's rep by pop in the house and legislation can only be made by the house.

Yeah why should the places with the most people get to call the shots, we should let a cow pasture in Montana decide things.

There's 10 million Trump voters in California and New York whose votes don't matter under the current system, you'd think the GOP would like to give them a voice.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on January 09, 2021, 12:48:45 pm
Enfranchising Puerto Rico is not rigging anything.

Taxation without representation and that...
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 09, 2021, 02:35:23 pm
Yeah why should the places with the most people get to call the shots, we should let a cow pasture in Montana decide things.
But cows are people. After all, why would Devon Nunes be trying to sue one?
Quote
There's 10 million Trump voters in California and New York whose votes don't matter under the current system, you'd think the GOP would like to give them a voice.
Good point.

Many people get fixated on the 'urban' and 'rural' states, but even in 'Urban' California, there are significant agricultural areas where Republicans get support. And 'rural' states like Montana do have cities. And voters in those areas may have different priorities than what their senators represent.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 09, 2021, 02:44:55 pm
Yeah why should the places with the most people get to call the shots, we should let a cow pasture in Montana decide things.

There's 10 million Trump voters in California and New York whose votes don't matter under the current system, you'd think the GOP would like to give them a voice.

We do the same thing in Canada. Atlantic provinces have representation way out of proportion to their populations.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 09, 2021, 02:50:27 pm
Taxation without representation and that...

One of the reasons not to become a state is territories don't pay federal income tax on income earned within the territory.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 09, 2021, 04:46:33 pm
We do the same thing in Canada. Atlantic provinces have representation way out of proportion to their populations.


Not to that extreme. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 09, 2021, 05:22:31 pm

Not to that extreme.

Can be pretty extreme,  especially when it comes to PEI. It has 39,000 per MP and Senator. The average for the four biggest provinces is 110,000 per MP. The four Atlantic provinces have six more senators than the four western provinces.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 09, 2021, 05:42:10 pm
Enfranchising Puerto Rico is not rigging anything.
Try telling that to Republicans.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 09, 2021, 05:42:48 pm
Can be pretty extreme,  especially when it comes to PEI. It has 39,000 per MP and Senator. The average for the four biggest provinces is 110,000 per MP. The four Atlantic provinces have six more senators than the four western provinces.

Wyoming has 290,000 people per senator.

California has 20 Million people per senator.

Thatís a 69 fold difference.

Your  Canadian example is 3 fold.

Címon Wilber...   itís not even close to the same. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 09, 2021, 05:43:28 pm
Taxation without representation and that...
Wouldn't statehood facilitate both?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 10, 2021, 01:17:28 pm
Taxation without representation and that...

DC license plates say "end taxation without representation".
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on January 10, 2021, 02:37:29 pm
Wouldn't statehood facilitate both?

Yes it would
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: SuperColinBlow on January 19, 2021, 03:37:30 am
Wyoming has 290,000 people per senator.

California has 20 Million people per senator.

Thatís a 69 fold difference.

Your  Canadian example is 3 fold.

Címon Wilber...   itís not even close to the same.

Isn't Canada supposed to be "one person one vote" in the House of Commons?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 19, 2021, 11:20:30 am
Isn't Canada supposed to be "one person one vote" in the House of Commons?

It's supposed to be, but that isn't practically possible. You need to have at least one seat per region, meaning that the territories are overrepresented no matter what. There are also a few clauses that amend the formula, and some of them are constitutional documents. That's why PEI will never have less than 4 MPs as long as they have 4 senators.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 19, 2021, 12:28:23 pm
Wyoming has 290,000 people per senator.

California has 20 Million people per senator.

Thatís a 69 fold difference.

Your  Canadian example is 3 fold.

Címon Wilber...   itís not even close to the same.

It's the same principal. It's a necessity in large countries with disparate populations otherwise some regions will effectively have no representation. Some votes will always be worth more than others.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 19, 2021, 12:32:16 pm
It's the same principal. It's a necessity in large countries with disparate populations otherwise some regions will effectively have no representation. Some votes will always be worth more than others.

Itís not...   trying to get to representation by population as closely as possible (Canada) is not the same principle as equal representation regardless of population (USA).
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 19, 2021, 12:41:47 pm
Itís not...   trying to get to representation by population as closely as possible (Canada) is not the same principle as equal representation regardless of population (USA).

The Senate not done by population, it is done by region. The country is divided into four regions, the four western provinces, Quebec, Ontario and the Atlantic provinces. Each region gets the same number of  senators so as the west has been growing faster than Quebec or the Atlantic provinces, the disparity gets greater.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 19, 2021, 12:46:17 pm
The Senate not done by population, it is done by region. The country is divided into four regions, the four western provinces, Quebec, Ontario and the Atlantic provinces. Each region gets the same number of  senators so as the west has been growing faster than Quebec or the Atlantic provinces, the disparity gets greater.

Not talking about Canadaís senate.  Itís a relic.   It barely does any governing.  Itís not even elected. 

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 19, 2021, 01:04:26 pm
Not talking about Canadaís senate.  Itís a relic.   It barely does any governing.  Itís not even elected.

Well the US House is rep by pop so what are you referring too?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 19, 2021, 01:33:10 pm
Well the US House is rep by pop so what are you referring too?

I guess I can quote myself from a post you already replied to....   
Quote
why would a state of 300,000 citizens be as important as a state as 35,000,000 citizens?? 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 19, 2021, 01:46:26 pm
I guess I can quote myself from a post you already replied to....

I guess we have already discussed that. Canada doesn't equal representation by population either. If the US made Senate representation rep by pop, there would be no need for a senate because that has already been done in the house.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 19, 2021, 04:09:05 pm
I guess we have already discussed that. Canada doesn't equal representation by population either. If the US made Senate representation rep by pop, there would be no need for a senate because that has already been done in the house.

Youíre now just being purposely obtuse. 

PEI will never have equal political power to Ontario like Wyoming does with California in the USofA senate. 

For you to say ďitís the same principleĒ in Canada is just ignorant.   
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 19, 2021, 05:51:45 pm
Youíre now just being purposely obtuse. 

PEI will never have equal political power to Ontario like Wyoming does with California in the USofA senate. 

For you to say ďitís the same principleĒ in Canada is just ignorant.

I never said it was the same, I said it was the same principal. Wyoming has equal power in the Senate, it doesn't have equal power when it comes to actually making laws. You have to remember the Constitution was written with the original 13 states in mind. No American had even seen Wyoming at that time.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on January 19, 2021, 09:06:22 pm
That's what a bill of rights is for. Any system of government that prevents governing is garbage.

It's not meant to prevent governing, it's meant to ensure that any legislation has the approval of the people at large and the states.  If the Senate and House are controlled by different parties it means that they need to compromise in order to pass legislation.  The United States is a union of states, it's a federation, it isn't simply a big group of 300 million people, and states rights is a value the people who created the constitution wanted.

If you don't have those same values that's fine.  Canada also is a federal system, and we also have a Senate based on regional/provincial representation, but our Senate is much less democratic so by convention it defers to the will of the House because it's elected.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on January 19, 2021, 09:09:00 pm
That's because we have a multi party democracy.

No it's because of our voting system, FPTP.

Quote
States are artificial constructs, unlike people.

So are countries and cities and laws.  I don't understand your point.  I think you're saying that the rights of states and provinces don't matter?  Or at least they shouldn't have an input in determining laws?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on January 19, 2021, 09:30:20 pm
why would a state of 300,000 citizens be as important as a state as 35,000,000 citizens?? 

It's not.  California has far more seats in the House and far more electoral college votes to determine POTUS.  Wyoming only has 1 House seat, California has 53.  I think the rep by pop formulas aren't proportional though, they should be adjusted.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 20, 2021, 08:24:46 am
It's not meant to prevent governing, it's meant to ensure that any legislation has the approval of the people at large and the states.

And I go back to states being artificial constructs. 40,000,000 people in California are quite real.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 20, 2021, 08:27:24 am
Or at least they shouldn't have an input in determining laws?

Why would they? They're collections of people. Those people already have input.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Boges on January 20, 2021, 08:46:10 am
It's not.  California has far more seats in the House and far more electoral college votes to determine POTUS.  Wyoming only has 1 House seat, California has 53.  I think the rep by pop formulas aren't proportional though, they should be adjusted.

Because the Senate is territorial representation, States with less than a million people have the same number of Senators as huge states like Califorina, New York etc etc.

Apparently when States were being added in the 18th Century they tried to keep them even by added Free and Slave states in pairs just to keep things equal. Obviously the Republicans don't consider that anymore.

Added DC as a State would tip the balance. As would splitting California up. Then again, if they do that, what would stop Texas and Florida splitting itself up. How about 2 Wyomings?

It's a stupid system.

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 20, 2021, 09:00:21 am
And I go back to states being artificial constructs. 40,000,000 people in California are quite real.

So are provinces, Ontario has 94 times more people than PEI.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 20, 2021, 09:07:04 am
When the constitution was written the differences in population between states were much smaller than they are now. Their amendment process makes any fundamental changes impossible, as does ours.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 20, 2021, 11:27:12 am
So are provinces, Ontario has 94 times more people than PEI.

I'm not in favour of the current exceptions. Every province/territory should have a floor of 1, and that's it.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on January 20, 2021, 11:39:38 am
Remember:

When you hear "Joe Biden" you must ALWAYS IMAGINE IT IS ONE WORD, ie. "Jobiden"
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on January 20, 2021, 12:34:33 pm
And I go back to states being artificial constructs. 40,000,000 people in California are quite real.

California has 53 seats in the House.  The next closet state is Texas at 36, then Florida and NY at 27.  Wyoming has only 1 seat.

California has 55 electoral college votes for POTUS (who has veto power).  Texas is the next closest at 38.  Wyoming has 3.

If you want to argue that those aren't proportion to population i'd agree and should be fixed.  But Californians aren't ignored, they're by far the most powerful and represented state in the union and it isn't even close.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on January 20, 2021, 12:35:22 pm
Remember:

When you hear "Joe Biden" you must ALWAYS IMAGINE IT IS ONE WORD, ie. "Jobiden"

Please stop saying this because whenever I hear "Joe Biden" I imagine one word:  Jobiden.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 20, 2021, 01:39:01 pm
California has 53 seats in the House.  The next closet state is Texas at 36, then Florida and NY at 27.  Wyoming has only 1 seat.

California has 55 electoral college votes for POTUS (who has veto power).  Texas is the next closest at 38.  Wyoming has 3.

If you want to argue that those aren't proportion to population i'd agree and should be fixed.  But Californians aren't ignored, they're by far the most powerful and represented state in the union and it isn't even close.

All of that is irrelevant. Legislation has to pass both houses.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: waldo on January 20, 2021, 01:44:30 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/XsC7U0J.jpg)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 20, 2021, 01:50:36 pm
All of that is irrelevant. Legislation has to pass both houses.

Their constitution is 200 years older than ours, who knows how relevant ours will be in the Canada of 160 years from now
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on January 20, 2021, 01:52:57 pm
Please stop saying this because whenever I hear "Joe Biden" I imagine one word:  Jobiden.

It's "Jobiden"

Also... no liberal is truly happy today.  The shards of a once-great nation do not make a nation.  No matter what, the anti-democratic scammers have now got a playbook on how to undermine everything.

The scammed are so scammable that they applaud the scammer who pardonned the scammer who scammed them for money to finish an unfinished wall that was a scam from the outset.

 Sad day. Down escalator.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on January 20, 2021, 02:15:56 pm
All of that is irrelevant. Legislation has to pass both houses.

Ok so you're basically saying they should abolish the Senate or that it shouldn't have lawmaking ability and that states should have no vote in lawmaking.

Making the Senate rep by pop would make it exactly like the House and therefore redundant.

But you were also saying that they should admit reps for Puerto Rico and I believe DC to the Senate.  I believe the crux of your argument as you've said before is that the Senate (and electoral college) makes Congress (and the POTUS) more Republican/conservative than the actual population of the US and this is unfair and therefore should be reformed.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 20, 2021, 02:51:13 pm
All of that is irrelevant. Legislation has to pass both houses.

Exactly.  Thatís the issue is that the senate, made up of a few small population states, can essentially shut down legislation that the majority of the country, represented by their seats/population in the other chamber, pass.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 20, 2021, 03:00:07 pm
Ok so you're basically saying they should abolish the Senate or that it shouldn't have lawmaking ability and that states should have no vote in lawmaking.

Making the Senate rep by pop would make it exactly like the House and therefore redundant.

But you were also saying that they should admit reps for Puerto Rico and I believe DC to the Senate.  I believe the crux of your argument as you've said before is that the Senate (and electoral college) makes Congress (and the POTUS) more Republican/conservative than the actual population of the US and this is unfair and therefore should be reformed.

Is there any reason to keep the Senate except to incentivize obstructionism and ensure a minoritarian rule?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 20, 2021, 04:57:31 pm
Is there any reason to keep the Senate except to incentivize obstructionism and ensure a minoritarian rule?

They can't get rid of it. Assuming you could get rid of the Senate with an amendment, it requires a 2/3 majority in both houses and has to be ratified by 3/4 of the states. The Senate would have to vote to abolish itself and 3/4 of the states would have to agree.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Omni on January 20, 2021, 11:08:58 pm
Of all the things that occurred today as Biden took office, the poem written/read by Amanda Gorman will certainly be one thing that will stick with me. Brilliant writing, excellent delivery. Good for her and good for the US. A breath of fresh air from south of the border.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 20, 2021, 11:29:55 pm
Of all the things that occurred today as Biden took office, the poem written/read by Amanda Gorman will certainly be one thing that will stick with me. Brilliant writing, excellent delivery. Good for her and good for the US. A breath of fresh air from south of the border.

Iím glad Canada doesn't have all that nonsense.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 21, 2021, 07:41:36 am
Their constitution is 200 years older than ours, who knows how relevant ours will be in the Canada of 160 years from now

I would hope weíd change it then.

Btw, most of the material parts weíre talking about here arenít much older, and are in some cases younger than the similar part of ours.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 21, 2021, 07:43:10 am
Iím glad Canada doesn't have all that nonsense.

For a country that hates monarchy so much, they sure act like a monarchy.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 09:18:27 am
I would hope weíd change it then.

Btw, most of the material parts weíre talking about here arenít much older, and are in some cases younger than the similar part of ours.

Have you looked at our amending formula, it is almost as impossible as the US to make real change.

The US constitution was written in the late 18th century, ours dates to 1982.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 10:48:42 am
They can't get rid of it. Assuming you could get rid of the Senate with an amendment, it requires a 2/3 majority in both houses and has to be ratified by 3/4 of the states. The Senate would have to vote to abolish itself and 3/4 of the states would have to agree.

"It would be hard to get rid of it" is not an argument for retaining it though.

With that being said, there are legislative solutions to senate reform that stop short of abolition that could fix what ails it such as simply redistributing the seats.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 21, 2021, 11:24:56 am
The US constitution was written in the late 18th century, ours dates to 1982.

Ah, no, most of ours dates back to 1867. Parts of it predate Canada, and go back to the Royal Proclamation, 1763.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 11:30:53 am
Ah, no, most of ours dates back to 1867. Parts of it predate Canada, and go back to the Royal Proclamation, 1763.

The amending formula doesn't and the Charter doesn't.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: JMT on January 21, 2021, 11:53:37 am
The amending formula doesn't and the Charter doesn't.

No, but the powers of various levels of government and their construction do. I would also hope that the Charter would ever be changed, except to make it stronger.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 21, 2021, 12:22:21 pm
Would the constitution and charter need to be changed if we ever decided to outlaw in-camera lobbying?  I don't see why it would or should but this is Canada where moving Heaven and Earth is easier than moving Ottawa so...
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 01:04:32 pm
Would the constitution and charter need to be changed if we ever decided to outlaw in-camera lobbying?  I don't see why it would or should but this is Canada where moving Heaven and Earth is easier than moving Ottawa so...

All those ex politicians need jobs.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 21, 2021, 01:48:22 pm
All those ex politicians need jobs.
They'd still be as free as ever to pursue a career in the business of influencing governments - transparency wouldn't prevent that and if anything they'd probably have to bill their clients more to account for the time it would take to make more convincing arguments that lead to greater buy-in for whatever they're trying to achieve. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 02:50:52 pm
They'd still be as free as ever to pursue a career in the business of influencing governments - transparency wouldn't prevent that and if anything they'd probably have to bill their clients more to account for the time it would take to make more convincing arguments that lead to greater buy-in for whatever they're trying to achieve.

I was being facetious, I actually agree with you.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on January 21, 2021, 02:58:50 pm
All those ex politicians need jobs.

Are we still restricted to personal donations only ?  In other words, lobbying doesn't currently carry a monetary reward for the politician ?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 21, 2021, 03:06:29 pm
Are we still restricted to personal donations only ?  In other words, lobbying doesn't currently carry a monetary reward for the politician ?

Unless you count lucrative jobs or contracts once out of government.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 21, 2021, 03:17:31 pm
Are we still restricted to personal donations only ?  In other words, lobbying doesn't currently carry a monetary reward for the politician ?
I'm pretty sure it's a revolving door they're angling for now, which is probably such a given it doesn't need mentioning.  - it's a lot easier and less incriminating than handing over a bag of money.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on January 21, 2021, 03:43:10 pm
Unless you count lucrative jobs or contracts once out of government.

That's a lot harder to bribe people with but sure.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 03:46:17 pm
That's a lot harder to bribe people with but sure.

The companies which get the contracts can make it very lucrative for the lobbyists who land them.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on January 21, 2021, 05:47:37 pm
The companies which get the contracts can make it very lucrative for the lobbyists who land them.

But the policy makers need to be influenced by.... there could be a job in this after you leave politics.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 07:47:15 pm
But the policy makers need to be influenced by.... there could be a job in this after you leave politics.

Sure, why not?

Look at the "Little Guy from Shawinigan". Since he left politics he has spent the rest of his life sitting on corporate boards and acting as their ambassador.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on January 21, 2021, 07:49:56 pm
Sure, why not?

Look at the "Little Guy from Shawinigan". Since he left politics he has spent the rest of his life sitting on corporate boards and acting as their ambassador.

In the least, you must agree that it's less persuasive than "I have $1M for your PAC right now if you support this"
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 21, 2021, 07:51:09 pm
In the least, you must agree that it's less persuasive than "I have $1M for your PAC right now if you support this"

Certainly
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 09:44:26 am
If anyone thought Trump losing and being humiliated on the way out would give Republicans second thoughts about carrying on down the path they are on, think again (https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1352602139764420609?s=20).

It's fascinating to see them completely abandon any pretence of having any kind of vision or principles and just keep pushing fear, victimhood and division.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 22, 2021, 10:45:25 am
If anyone thought Trump losing and being humiliated on the way out would give Republicans second thoughts about carrying on down the path they are on, think again (https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1352602139764420609?s=20).

It's fascinating to see them completely abandon any pretence of having any kind of vision or principles and just keep pushing fear, victimhood and division.
The link given goes to a tweet by Rubio...
A radical leftist agenda in a divided country will not help unify our country, it will only confirm 75 million Americans biggest fears about the new administration

The hypocrisy in this tweet is just amazing... complaining about the "divided country", while simultaneously labeling Biden's actions as "radical leftist".

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 10:50:04 am
The link given goes to a tweet by Rubio...
A radical leftist agenda in a divided country will not help unify our country, it will only confirm 75 million Americans biggest fears about the new administration

The hypocrisy in this tweet is just amazing... complaining about the "divided country", while simultaneously labeling Biden's actions as "radical leftist".

Unity to them means "only doing what we want."
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 11:56:25 am
Unity to them means "only doing what we want."

I think that applies to both ends of the political spectrum. It's the ones closer to the middle who are more likely to compromise for the common good.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 12:05:41 pm
I think that applies to both ends of the political spectrum. It's the ones closer to the middle who are more likely to compromise for the common good.

nah. The ones in the middle are more likely to stand for nothing at all (see Obama, Barack).
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 22, 2021, 12:13:27 pm
Quote
Unity to them means "only doing what we want."
I think that applies to both ends of the political spectrum. It's the ones closer to the middle who are more likely to compromise for the common good.
There may be some truth to that.

The problem is that:

- The Democrats have such moderates that would have been willing to work with republicans. (Just look at the type of discussion that Obama had over the Affordable Care act... hours of debate in congress, allowing Republicans to have their say)

- Republicans, on the other hand, have been extremely unwilling to engage in any sort of bipartisanship. They voted as a block to reject Trump's first impeachment, they allowed the Republican Tax cuts for Millionaires (and almost passed their health care plan) on a united basis (even bypassing most of the discussion in congress that should have occurred). Even supposed moderates like Ben Sasse were quite willing to go along with the extreme partisanship when it was the republicans who were in complete control.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 22, 2021, 02:09:52 pm
I think that applies to both ends of the political spectrum. It's the ones closer to the middle who are more likely to compromise for the common good.

Only one party has been calling for the overthrow of a perfectly legit election.  Only one partyís supporters tried to perform a coup and assassinate their opposition from both parties.

So, now those folks who did that are calling for ďunityĒ?   Do you not see how astronomically stupid that is? 

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 03:05:56 pm
Only one party has been calling for the overthrow of a perfectly legit election.  Only one partyís supporters tried to perform a coup and assassinate their opposition from both parties.

So, now those folks who did that are calling for ďunityĒ?   Do you not see how astronomically stupid that is?

BLM and Antifa have indulged in a lot of mayhem and destruction.

If the Republican hypocrites want unity they should put up or shut up.

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 22, 2021, 03:08:58 pm
BLM and Antifa have indulged in a lot of mayhem and destruction.

If the Republican hypocrites want unity they should put up or shut up.

Please cite a single Democratic politician who has endorsed, incited or encouraged any mayhem or destruction from BLM protestors.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 03:09:34 pm
BLM and Antifa have indulged in a lot of mayhem and destruction.

If the Republican hypocrites want unity they should put up or shut up.

BLM and antifa aren't the Democrats dude.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 03:12:33 pm
BLM and antifa aren't the Democrats dude.

Well it's pretty debatable whether those people attacking the Capitol represented Republicans either.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 03:17:58 pm
Well it's pretty debatable whether those people attacking the Capitol represented Republicans either.

No. No it's not.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on January 22, 2021, 03:25:09 pm
No. No it's not.

I would like for someone to articulate 'association' vs. 'representation' .... it would solve a lot of arguments.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 22, 2021, 03:29:18 pm
Well it's pretty debatable whether those people attacking the Capitol represented Republicans either.

So no Republican, president, presidentís people, Congressmen, or senators incited or encouraged any of the conspiracy theory nonsense that led to the insurrection attempt? 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 03:33:21 pm
I would like for someone to articulate 'association' vs. 'representation' .... it would solve a lot of arguments.

Well, there were many capitol criminals directly associated with the Republican party as members or voters while the mob overall was representative of the widespread Republican belief (held by about 70% of the GOP) that the election was rigged.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on January 22, 2021, 03:34:54 pm
Well it's pretty debatable whether those people attacking the Capitol represented Republicans either.
Well, prior to the riot, the majority of Republicans believed the election was stolen.

Furthermore, despite Trump playing a role in the terrorist activities at the Capitol, only 5% of Trump voters said they regret their selection. The vast majority either were happier that they voted for Trump, or it made no difference.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/17/poll-trump-blame-capitol-rioting-459923
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 22, 2021, 03:36:11 pm
No ...  those people at the Capitol certainly didnít represent any Republicans....   ::)

https://youtu.be/_CGV_OLEEKg
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on January 22, 2021, 03:49:13 pm
They were Republicans... but did they represent ?  How objectively can somebody say that ?  Exploring...
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 03:53:01 pm
They were Republicans... but did they represent ?  How objectively can somebody say that ?  Exploring...

If they were republicans acting on a belief shared by an overwhelming majority of Republicans, it's safe to say they are representative of Republicans, no?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on January 22, 2021, 03:58:43 pm
If they were republicans acting on a belief shared by an overwhelming majority of Republicans, it's safe to say they are representative of Republicans, no?

Well in this case the action is what is in question.  Do we have polls reflecting how Republicans felt about the invasion ?

Oh ffs... what am I saying... they think Antifa did it.

Which reminds me... why even use reason in this case.  It's ALL POISON...
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 04:19:53 pm
Well in this case the action is what is in question.  Do we have polls reflecting how Republicans felt about the invasion ?

Oh ffs... what am I saying... they think Antifa did it.

Which reminds me... why even use reason in this case.  It's ALL POISON...

Here's a YouGov poll done the week of. (https://twitter.com/SMerler/status/1347089854958596098?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1347089854958596098%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.commondreams.org%2Fnews%2F2021%2F01%2F07%2Fpoll-shows-nearly-half-gop-voters-lied-right-wing-media-approve-us-capitol)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 22, 2021, 04:45:30 pm
They were Republicans... but did they represent ?  How objectively can somebody say that ?  Exploring...
Does Kraft Dinner represent itself with mac and cheese or merely associate itself with it?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 05:06:31 pm
Well, prior to the riot, the majority of Republicans believed the election was stolen.

Furthermore, despite Trump playing a role in the terrorist activities at the Capitol, only 5% of Trump voters said they regret their selection. The vast majority either were happier that they voted for Trump, or it made no difference.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/17/poll-trump-blame-capitol-rioting-459923

That doesn't mean they approved of what happened at the Capitol. You can agree with a lot of things without condoning violence to achieve them.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 05:14:19 pm
That doesn't mean they approved of what happened at the Capitol. You can agree with a lot of things without condoning violence to achieve them.

45% of Republicans supported the invasion of the Capitol, versus 43% who were opposed.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 05:18:03 pm
45% of Republicans supported the invasion of the Capitol, versus 43% who were opposed.
Where did you get that number but even if correct, do you not think it is worth trying to engage that 43%?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 05:23:07 pm
Where did you get that number but even if correct, do you not think it is worth trying to engage that 43%?

The number is from the YouGov poll I linked to above.

As for the other 43%, just because they oppose the violence at the capitol doesn't necessarily mean they aren't insane in other ways.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 05:24:53 pm
The number is from the YouGov poll I linked to above.

As for the other 43%, just because they oppose the violence at the capitol doesn't necessarily mean they aren't insane in other ways.

So when they say all Biden voters are commies you know where they are coming from.

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 22, 2021, 05:51:16 pm
So when they say all Biden voters are commies you know where they are coming from.
Where exactly are they going with that though? After all the blood and treasure that's been spent fighting commies abroad and now they're living in the White House and dominating Congress. It seems Republicans have rhetorically boxed themselves into a corner from which there's no escape other than capitulation, all out war or giving a big collective "aww, we didn't really mean it" and pretending it's all a big misunderstanding .     
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 22, 2021, 06:35:30 pm
So when they say all Biden voters are commies you know where they are coming from.

They say that anyway without anything close to the kind of evidence. Your "both sides" schtick is really, really stupid.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on January 22, 2021, 07:28:58 pm
45% of Republicans supported the invasion of the Capitol, versus 43% who were opposed.

Half of Republicans are absolute moron and/or deplorables.  I had a feeling but thank you for confirming.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: wilber on January 22, 2021, 08:31:20 pm
They say that anyway without anything close to the kind of evidence. Your "both sides" schtick is really, really stupid.

Actually it isn't. You aren't prepared to consider any definition  but your own.

Zealot.  noun

a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 25, 2021, 12:35:12 pm
Actually it isn't. You aren't prepared to consider any definition  but your own.

Give me an alternative definition then, tell me more about how the well-off suburban whites who form the core of Trump's support are really just struggling with the old coal mine shutting down or some bullcrap.

But you can't any more than you are capable of understanding the difference between "a significant portion of Trump's supporters are motivated by racial anxiety" and "all Trump supporters are racists" (something no one is claiming anyway).
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on January 25, 2021, 12:48:06 pm
Give me an alternative definition then, tell me more about how the well-off suburban whites who form the core of Trump's support are really just struggling with the old coal mine shutting down or some bullcrap.

Ok but is there any doubt that coal country came out for Trump ?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 25, 2021, 01:24:52 pm
Ok but is there any doubt that coal country came out for Trump ?

The first time around, yes.  The 2nd time, not so much.

However, Trump did lose the popular vote both times.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 25, 2021, 02:21:06 pm
Ok but is there any doubt that coal country came out for Trump ?

Sure. I'm just trying to slice the pie to find out how significant this alleged bloc of voters that wilber keeps talking about-economically disadvantaged people who voted for Trump because of populist economic messaging but could be swayed to vote blue (unless you call them racist)- actually is. As a percentage of Trump's supporters, I expect that's a tiny group. As a percentage of the total electorate, I'd bet they are statistically insignificant.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on January 25, 2021, 07:45:10 pm
Sure. I'm just trying to slice the pie to find out how significant this alleged bloc of voters that wilber keeps talking about-economically disadvantaged people who voted for Trump...

...As a percentage of the total electorate, I'd bet they are statistically insignificant.
You're talking about people who were mostly displaced by economic globalization, automation and other freebie-market changes. Anyone else recall conservatives advising people to work harder for less and calling anyone who complained too much a lazy slacker and a commie? Of course nowadays conservatives and their politicians can't gush enough about how great good paying union jobs are and how commies, foreigners and immigrants are stealing them away.

Useful idiots usually are insignificant.  I don't doubt that this alleged bloc of voters exists but I'm afraid I just don't give a **** about them. Scrape 'em off.  The sooner they're gone the sooner the world will be a better place.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on January 25, 2021, 08:33:54 pm
You're talking about people who were mostly displaced by economic globalization, automation and other freebie-market changes. Anyone else recall conservatives advising people to work harder for less and calling anyone who complained too much a lazy slacker and a commie? Of course nowadays conservatives and their politicians can't gush enough about how great good paying union jobs are and how commies, foreigners and immigrants are stealing them away.

Useful idiots usually are insignificant.  I don't doubt that this alleged bloc of voters exists but I'm afraid I just don't give a **** about them. Scrape 'em off.  The sooner they're gone the sooner the world will be a better place.

I just love the idea that there are large numbers of people out there who would be like ďboy Iíd love some affordable health care but someone on the tv said Trump voters are racist so Iím gonna show them by dying!Ē
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 02, 2021, 02:09:30 pm
Will Democrats be smart enough to get out of their own way??  Or are they going to be spineless idiots?

They can pass their COVID legislation without any Republican support and they can vote to do away with the undemocratic filibuster with a simple majority which paves the way for further legislative action. 

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/02/01/real-reason-gop-dont-want-bidens-plan-they-fear-it-will-work?amp
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on February 02, 2021, 06:52:42 pm
Will Democrats be smart enough to get out of their own way??  Or are they going to be spineless idiots?

They can pass their COVID legislation without any Republican support and they can vote to do away with the undemocratic filibuster with a simple majority which paves the way for further legislative action. 

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/02/01/real-reason-gop-dont-want-bidens-plan-they-fear-it-will-work?amp

Most of the GOP need to go f*** off and rot in a hole because they suck.  The party is almost useless.  It's hard to blame the party though when ~30% of the voting public are straight up stupid bigoted goons who always vote these idiots into office, and then the other 20% of the country that aren't so bad but vote them in anyways.

So ya f*** the GOP, since they behave like jerks in Congress just plow everything through without regard for what they think.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 02, 2021, 07:05:48 pm
Will Democrats be smart enough to get out of their own way??  Or are they going to be spineless idiots?
1. if not and 2. they are; hindsight will make it apparent this was probably the only shot there'll be at turning things around and by that I mean preventing America from slipping into a full blown political and socioeconomic interregnum and likely dragging much of the world with it.  The world is already neck-deep in a dark dystopia that's stranger in reality than any fictional dystopias I recall reading.  Between that and all the other eight-balls arrayed in front of us...

Time will tell, maybe a short time.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 02, 2021, 11:23:02 pm
They can pass their COVID legislation without any Republican support and they can vote to do away with the undemocratic filibuster with a simple majority which paves the way for further legislative action. 
The problem with getting rid of the filibuster...

Changing the rules of the senate requires a majority vote. While the democrats do control the senate, at least two senators (Joe Manchin, who is a centrist democrat, and Kyrsten Sinema) have stated that they do not support changing the rules to end the filibuster.  Without them, (and assuming none of the republicans side with the Democrats on this), they wouldn't have enough votes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/25/joe-manchin-filibuster-462364
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 03, 2021, 09:23:43 am
The problem with getting rid of the filibuster...

Changing the rules of the senate requires a majority vote. While the democrats do control the senate, at least two senators (Joe Manchin, who is a centrist democrat, and Kyrsten Sinema) have stated that they do not support changing the rules to end the filibuster.  Without them, (and assuming none of the republicans side with the Democrats on this), they wouldn't have enough votes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/25/joe-manchin-filibuster-462364

Easy way around that: you bribe them with pork projects for their states.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 03, 2021, 10:13:16 am
Quote
The problem with getting rid of the filibuster...

Changing the rules of the senate requires a majority vote. While the democrats do control the senate, at least two senators (Joe Manchin, who is a centrist democrat, and Kyrsten Sinema) have stated that they do not support changing the rules to end the filibuster.
Easy way around that: you bribe them with pork projects for their states.
Not sure if that would work right now. The Biden administration is attempting to engage in massive spending programs (in large part due to Covid relief, although basic infrastructure spending is also part of that.) Any 'pork projects' will probably be overwhelmed by all the other spending that will be done in their state.

Personally I'd love to see them change the rules to allow filibusters, but only in the old-school "Must keep actually talking" sense. (The current rule is that the opposition party just has to say "we filibuster", like some sort of magic incantation.)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 03, 2021, 12:05:24 pm
Easy way around that: you bribe them with pork projects for their states.

Not sure if that would work right now. The Biden administration is attempting to engage in massive spending programs (in large part due to Covid relief, although basic infrastructure spending is also part of that.) Any 'pork projects' will probably be overwhelmed by all the other spending that will be done in their state.


Personally I'd love to see them change the rules to allow filibusters, but only in the old-school "Must keep actually talking" sense. (The current rule is that the opposition party just has to say "we filibuster", like some sort of magic incantation.)

So then you just say "see all these nice things we have planned for your state? Vote to nuke the filibuster and you can keep them. If not, we'll make sure they get nothing and that everyone knows it's your fault." Stop coddling these DINOs.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Boges on February 03, 2021, 12:28:50 pm
Will Democrats be smart enough to get out of their own way??  Or are they going to be spineless idiots?

They can pass their COVID legislation without any Republican support and they can vote to do away with the undemocratic filibuster with a simple majority which paves the way for further legislative action. 

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/02/01/real-reason-gop-dont-want-bidens-plan-they-fear-it-will-work?amp

They would have to convince some Dems. (Manchin and Sinema) to even vote to abolish the Fillibuster.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 03, 2021, 12:55:39 pm
They would have to convince some Dems. (Manchin and Sinema) to even vote to abolish the Fillibuster.

Exactly...   thatís what i meant when I asked if they could actually get out of their own way and grow a spine.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 03, 2021, 01:26:45 pm
Quote
Not sure if that would work right now. The Biden administration is attempting to engage in massive spending programs (in large part due to Covid relief, although basic infrastructure spending is also part of that.) Any 'pork projects' will probably be overwhelmed by all the other spending that will be done in their state.
So then you just say "see all these nice things we have planned for your state? Vote to nuke the filibuster and you can keep them. If not, we'll make sure they get nothing and that everyone knows it's your fault." Stop coddling these DINOs.
Keep in mind that of the 2 senators in question: Manchin is from West Virginia, a state that voted for Trump in 2020. And Sinema is from Arizona; while Arizona was won by Biden in 2020, Trump managed to win the state in 2016. So neither state leans solidly democratic.

An attempt to force either senator to take a more hard-line/left-wing stance might jeopardize the Democrat's chances on keeping the states in future elections.

I do recognize that it is frustrating... Moscow Mitch has done everything he can to demolish any sense of bipartisanship and political norms, and now the republicans seem intent on renewing their obstructionist tactics, and Manchin/Sinema don't seem to be willing to stop them. But, Democrats have to play the hand they've been dealt...
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 03, 2021, 04:10:06 pm
So then you just say "see all these nice things we have planned for your state? Vote to nuke the filibuster and you can keep them. If not, we'll make sure they get nothing and that everyone knows it's your fault." Stop coddling these DINOs.

Keep in mind that of the 2 senators in question: Manchin is from West Virginia, a state that voted for Trump in 2020. And Sinema is from Arizona; while Arizona was won by Biden in 2020, Trump managed to win the state in 2016. So neither state leans solidly democratic.

An attempt to force either senator to take a more hard-line/left-wing stance might jeopardize the Democrat's chances on keeping the states in future elections.

I do recognize that it is frustrating... Moscow Mitch has done everything he can to demolish any sense of bipartisanship and political norms, and now the republicans seem intent on renewing their obstructionist tactics, and Manchin/Sinema don't seem to be willing to stop them. But, Democrats have to play the hand they've been dealt...

Perhaps I'm naive, but I think undecided voters and voters who aren't politically engaged would be more inclined to vote for someone who actually took steps to materially improve the lot of their constituents over those who are mere placeholders. By that I mean, no one gives a **** about bipartisanship outside of elite beltway circles; people just want their stimmy cheques and if Joe Manchin doesn't want to do that, the Democrats should fine someone who will.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 04, 2021, 09:20:05 am
Quote
Keep in mind that of the 2 senators in question: Manchin is from West Virginia, a state that voted for Trump in 2020. And Sinema is from Arizona; while Arizona was won by Biden in 2020, Trump managed to win the state in 2016. So neither state leans solidly democratic.

An attempt to force either senator to take a more hard-line/left-wing stance might jeopardize the Democrat's chances on keeping the states in future elections.
Perhaps I'm naive, but I think undecided voters and voters who aren't politically engaged would be more inclined to vote for someone who actually took steps to materially improve the lot of their constituents over those who are mere placeholders.
You would think people would vote for politicians who "improve their lot", but people don't always make their political decisions based on rational decisions based on facts and logic. They may have problems understanding the connection between a particular government action and how it improves their own situation. They may fall for false promises from opposing politicians.

And the republicans are masters at making people vote against their own best interests.

(Look at the number of people who hate Obamacare, but are all in favor of the Affordable Care Act, not understanding that those are the same things.)

And of course the other problem.... you talked about how a far-left democrat senator could appeal to voters who "aren't politically engaged"... The problem is, those voters who aren't engaged are the type that would be more likely to sit out elections. Meanwhile, the republicans would be using the image of the "radical commie-democrat" to whip their base of evangelicals and alt-right fan boys into a frenzy... and they WOULD vote.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on February 04, 2021, 09:39:13 am
1. Perhaps I'm naive, but I think undecided voters and voters who aren't politically engaged would be more inclined to vote for someone who actually took steps to materially improve the lot of their constituents over those who are mere placeholders.

2. You would think people would vote for politicians who "improve their lot", but people don't always make their political decisions based on rational decisions based on facts and logic. They may have problems understanding the connection between a particular government action and how it improves their own situation. They may fall for false promises from opposing politicians.

3. And the republicans are masters at making people vote against their own best interests.

4. (Look at the number of people who hate Obamacare, but are all in favor of the Affordable Care Act, not understanding that those are the same things.)

5. And of course the other problem.... you talked about how a far-left democrat senator could appeal to voters who "aren't politically engaged"... The problem is, those voters who aren't engaged are the type that would be more likely to sit out elections. Meanwhile, the republicans would be using the image of the "radical commie-democrat" to whip their base of evangelicals and alt-right fan boys into a frenzy... and they WOULD vote.
1. My theory as to why the democrats dominated politics in the early 20th century was that it was partially due to what they delivered:
-public services like electricity
-social safety net
-regulation to curtail the excesses of banking and speculation and bring stability

2. Also... does it ?  When FDR established the Tennessee Valley Authority ... built dams ... brought electricity to rural America the connection was evident.  How exactly does a China trade deal "help" the average American ?  It does, but the relationship isn't evident.  But... also doesn't help everyone equally.

3. The Democrats also achieved #1 by demonizing the wealthy.  Lately I have been closely looking at the posts for the craziest Trump supporters and there is a distinct anti-wealth sentiment behind a LOT of it.  I have even read people who seem to think that the Republicans are the party of the working man (sic) and the Democrats preserve the status quo for the wealthy.  Democrats need to fix this ...

4. Perfect example.  It makes a case for some kind of simplification of government, introduced with a general benefit... but maybe not a UBI.  The Democrats have to play the politics ...

5. "Far Left" in Americaspeak means pushing for reparations and transgender in bathrooms.  It's f***ed.  Huey Long, LBJ, and FDR were big, loud, FAR LEFT populists.  They need a new Bill Clinton who:

1) Doesn't molest his staff
2) Is not a neoliberal


Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on February 04, 2021, 10:06:23 am
1. My theory as to why the democrats dominated politics in the early 20th century was that it was partially due to what they delivered:
-public services like electricity
-social safety net
-regulation to curtail the excesses of banking and speculation and bring stability
Actually, republicans held the white house for 6 terms in the first half of the 20th century. Democrats held it for 7 terms (which, admittedly is more than the republicans, but not exactly "dominating".)

(ETA: I should also point out that the political environment was quite different back then... back then, the republicans often had the greatest appeal to african american voters, "evangelical voting blocks" were less of a thing, etc.)

And even if people liked the social programs back then, it was a very different period in history. Back then, there were fewer media outlets, information was a lot more tightly controlled, etc. Now, you have 24 hour cable shows, internet sites, and twitter, all available to push narratives that can have no basis in reality. Had all those things been available back in the 1930s, instead of people praising FDRs "New deal", you would have half the country screaming about how his programs are "on the road to communism" and he is in a wheelchair because he is really a cyborg under the control of Stalin.
Quote
3. The Democrats also achieved #1 by demonizing the wealthy.  Lately I have been closely looking at the posts for the craziest Trump supporters and there is a distinct anti-wealth sentiment behind a LOT of it.  I have even read people who seem to think that the Republicans are the party of the working man (sic) and the Democrats preserve the status quo for the wealthy.  Democrats need to fix this ...
But that's the thing about the MAGAchud... some may be "anti-weatlh", but they voted for the republicans, the people that passed the "tax cuts for Millionaires" act when Trump was president.

Its this logical disconnect that Republicans have managed to turn into success.

Quote
Re: People not understanding ACA and Obamacare are the same thing
4. Perfect example.  It makes a case for some kind of simplification of government, introduced with a general benefit... but maybe not a UBI.  The Democrats have to play the politics ...
Government is complex. Not really sure if that sort of "simplification" is possible.
Quote
5. "Far Left" in Americaspeak means pushing for reparations and transgender in bathrooms.  It's f***ed.  Huey Long, LBJ, and FDR were big, loud, FAR LEFT populists.
But that's the problem.... The republicans are doing their upmost in painting even a moderate democrat as a "radical far-left commie". Even Biden and Hillary Clinton (who were very moderate) got tarred with the same brush.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 04, 2021, 10:14:33 am
You would think people would vote for politicians who "improve their lot", but people don't always make their political decisions based on rational decisions based on facts and logic. They may have problems understanding the connection between a particular government action and how it improves their own situation. They may fall for false promises from opposing politicians.

And the republicans are masters at making people vote against their own best interests.

(Look at the number of people who hate Obamacare, but are all in favor of the Affordable Care Act, not understanding that those are the same things.)

And of course the other problem.... you talked about how a far-left democrat senator could appeal to voters who "aren't politically engaged"... The problem is, those voters who aren't engaged are the type that would be more likely to sit out elections. Meanwhile, the republicans would be using the image of the "radical commie-democrat" to whip their base of evangelicals and alt-right fan boys into a frenzy... and they WOULD vote.

For something like COVID relief, I think people understand getting a cheque in the mail just fine Trump understood that, but the Dems can't even do that without means testing or grovelling for Republican support. Forgiving student loans, single payer healthcare, childcare benefits are other examples and poll well across the board. Make those things happen and campaign on them.

As for non-voters vs engaged hyperpartisans, the solution is to give people a reason to vote for you (see above) while making it easier for them to do so: a national voting holiday, universal ID, same day registration etc.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 04, 2021, 10:17:32 am
But that's the problem.... The republicans are doing their upmost in painting even a moderate democrat as a "radical far-left commie". Even Biden and Hillary Clinton (who were very moderate) got tarred with the same brush.

Given that, why even engage it? Let them name call while you focus on policy and solving problems.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on February 04, 2021, 02:44:15 pm
Actually, republicans held the white house for 6 terms in the first half of the 20th century. Democrats held it for 7 terms (which, admittedly is more than the republicans, but not exactly "dominating".)

They dominated from 1932 to 1952 right ?  I didn't know about the Republican dominance before that, but prior to the depression is almost prehistory for me and American politics.

Quote

(ETA: I should also point out that the political environment was quite different back then... back then, the republicans often had the greatest appeal to african american voters, "evangelical voting blocks" were less of a thing, etc.)

And even if people liked the social programs back then, it was a very different period in history. Back then, there were fewer media outlets, information was a lot more tightly controlled, etc. Now, you have 24 hour cable shows, internet sites, and twitter, all available to push narratives that can have no basis in reality. Had all those things been available back in the 1930s, instead of people praising FDRs "New deal", you would have half the country screaming about how his programs are "on the road to communism" and he is in a wheelchair because he is really a cyborg under the control of Stalin.But that's the thing about the MAGAchud... some may be "anti-weatlh", but they voted for the republicans, the people that passed the "tax cuts for Millionaires" act when Trump was president.

This period of history is something I have studied quite a bit, including media.

Quote
Government is complex. Not really sure if that sort of "simplification" is possible.But that's the problem.... The republicans are doing their upmost in painting even a moderate democrat as a "radical far-left commie". Even Biden and Hillary Clinton (who were very moderate) got tarred with the same brush.

Complexity of government helps those who have money to navigate it.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 04, 2021, 03:26:56 pm
Complexity of government helps those who have money to navigate it.


I mean look at how they're handling the COVID relief:

1. Turning the promised $2,000 cheques into $1,400.
2. "Targeting" the cheques based on income from 2019 tax returns so that anyone was doing fine before the pandemic will get no COVID relief payment even if they lost everything as a result o fth epandemic, while anyone doing fine now who wasn't in 2019 will get money.

In meme form, this is what this looks like:

(https://i.imgflip.com/4wqdu5.jpg)

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 04, 2021, 04:36:47 pm

I mean look at how they're handling the COVID relief:

1. Turning the promised $2,000 cheques into $1,400.
2. "Targeting" the cheques based on income from 2019 tax returns so that anyone was doing fine before the pandemic will get no COVID relief payment even if they lost everything as a result o fth epandemic, while anyone doing fine now who wasn't in 2019 will get money.


Absolutely asinine.  What abject cowards and idiots.  Itís no wonder America is such a mess when you have one party that is outright fascist and the other is downright cowardly.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on February 04, 2021, 04:39:32 pm
Absolutely asinine.  What abject cowards and idiots.  Itís no wonder America is such a mess when you have one party that is outright fascist and the other is downright cowardly.

I don't understand who they think this kind of thing is supposed to appeal to or benefit. Just completely up their own asses.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 26, 2021, 07:30:57 pm
Well, looks like Biden isn't interested in punishing Saudi Arabia for its murder of Jamal Khashoggi. Typical American president I guess...as useless as a Canadian PM.

These are certainly halcyon days for dictators. Who knows maybe they deserve the respect they've been afforded...they're really just long suffering victims of culture cancel I guess.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: MH on February 27, 2021, 06:44:00 am
Yeah... these are the people Trump called "Marxists" .... I understand they aren't raising the minimum wage either.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on February 27, 2021, 03:44:39 pm
Well, looks like Biden isn't interested in punishing Saudi Arabia for its murder of Jamal Khashoggi. Typical American president I guess...as useless as a Canadian PM.

These are certainly halcyon days for dictators. Who knows maybe they deserve the respect they've been afforded...they're really just long suffering victims of culture cancel I guess.


After reading Obama's Promised Land, I came to realise that so much of American foreign policy cannot be changed.  He discussed the issue regarding withdrawing from Iraq, closing Guantanamo and during the fall of Mubarak in Egypt.  What he wanted to do as a human being and what he could do as POTUS weren't always in sync. 

I hate MBS with a passion and I am not defending Biden on this, but after reading Obama's book, I know to take American foreign policy with a grain of salt.  A lot of the time they don't have much choice.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on February 27, 2021, 03:55:41 pm
2. "Targeting" the cheques based on income from 2019 tax returns so that anyone was doing fine before the pandemic will get no COVID relief payment even if they lost everything as a result o fth epandemic, while anyone doing fine now who wasn't in 2019 will get money.

The BC government got a lot of criticism for doing the same thing.  They made an election promise about giving everyone COVID relief money but ended up basing it on 2019 income which may or may not be relevant in the following year.

I didn't see an issue with it personally.  They set the threshold quite high so pretty much everyone other than 1-2% ers got something.  The way I see it, if you're in the top 2% in 2019 a one time payment of $1K isn't going to make much of a difference in your life whether or not you still have a job.

Much ado about nothing IMO.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: eyeball on February 27, 2021, 05:09:11 pm

After reading Obama's Promised Land, I came to realise that so much of American foreign policy cannot be changed.  He discussed the issue regarding withdrawing from Iraq, closing Guantanamo and during the fall of Mubarak in Egypt.  What he wanted to do as a human being and what he could do as POTUS weren't always in sync. 

I hate MBS with a passion and I am not defending Biden on this, but after reading Obama's book, I know to take American foreign policy with a grain of salt.  A lot of the time they don't have much choice.

It's probably a good thing I'm not the most powerful man in the world, I wouldn't give it much choice in the matter.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: BC_cheque on February 27, 2021, 06:25:38 pm
It's probably a good thing I'm not the most powerful man in the world, I wouldn't give it much choice in the matter.

Looks like there's hope yet.  Apparently there is an announcement coming Monday from Camp Biden re SA.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 01, 2021, 11:53:40 am
First migrant facility for children opens under Biden
 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/immigrant-children-camp-texas-biden/2021/02/22/05dfd58c-7533-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html)

No more kids in cages?
No! More kids in cages!
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 01, 2021, 12:22:49 pm
First migrant facility for children opens under Biden
 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/immigrant-children-camp-texas-biden/2021/02/22/05dfd58c-7533-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html)

No more kids in cages?
No! More kids in cages!
If you read the article, it gives additional details into the situation. Its not as simple as you make it seem.

Immigration does need to deal with unaccompanied minors (or, alternatively, cases where children are found with people who are not their parents or guardians), and this problem has grown with Biden relaxing rules regarding border crossings. In addition, Covid has meant a reduction in the capacity for existing camps. (What are the alternatives? Release the children into the U.S., where many may end up homeless? Leave them in other detention facilities, which themselves are overcrowded? Send them back to their home country, where they may be facing danger?)

This is significantly different than the situation under Trump, where the children in those types of facilities were often there because they were separated from their parents deliberately, as a punishment/deterrant.)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on March 01, 2021, 02:34:05 pm
If you read the article, it gives additional details into the situation. Its not as simple as you make it seem.

Did anyone read the "additional details into the situation" under Trump?  If Trump did this it would be outrage.  At least the facilities seem nicer this time.  They sure have issues at the southern border, and it's not going to change any time soon.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 01, 2021, 04:23:51 pm
Quote
If you read the article, it gives additional details into the situation. Its not as simple as you make it seem.
Did anyone read the"additional details into the situation" under Trump?  If Trump did this it would be outrage.
Maybe, maybe not.

Trump was a despicable human being, and his immigration policy was based on racist ideals (and partly guided by alt-right troll Miller).  We talk about the Trump administration "locking kids in cages" not just because of the poor condition of the facilities that were used (although that might be a part), but as a reminder about all the negative aspects of his policies.... using detention when the Obama administration would often just issue a court summons, the use of family separation as a tool/deterrent, the inability to match children with parents after captivity, etc.

If Trump had not engaged in those other aspects of his immigration plans, and had honestly claimed (if Trump were actually capable of honesty) that "we are holding some children who were not with parents, until we can track down their families" I doubt there would have been a significant amount of criticism. (There is just so much else to condemn Trump for, that attacking actions that don't really have much alternative seems like a waste of time.)
Quote
At least the facilities seem nicer this time.  They sure have issues at the southern border, and it's not going to change any time soon.
Many (probably most) western countries have at least SOME problems with immigration. Even when the leader has some integrity, there will always be situations where compassion for potential immigrants will conflict with things like logistics and security.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 02, 2021, 10:06:34 am
If you read the article, it gives additional details into the situation. Its not as simple as you make it seem.

Immigration does need to deal with unaccompanied minors (or, alternatively, cases where children are found with people who are not their parents or guardians), and this problem has grown with Biden relaxing rules regarding border crossings. In addition, Covid has meant a reduction in the capacity for existing camps. (What are the alternatives? Release the children into the U.S., where many may end up homeless? Leave them in other detention facilities, which themselves are overcrowded? Send them back to their home country, where they may be facing danger?)

This is significantly different than the situation under Trump, where the children in those types of facilities were often there because they were separated from their parents deliberately, as a punishment/deterrant.)

You want alternatives? How about putting the kids up in empty hotels with supervision instead of in converted shipping containers in the middle of nowhere run by some dodgy not-for-profit with a record of abusing children, feeding children undercooked and raw food, and stealing from their families when they send them money (a detail the article neglects to include)? Dunno, just spitballing here.

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 02, 2021, 03:26:01 pm
Quote
Immigration does need to deal with unaccompanied minors (or, alternatively, cases where children are found with people who are not their parents or guardians), and this problem has grown with Biden relaxing rules regarding border crossings. In addition, Covid has meant a reduction in the capacity for existing camps. (What are the alternatives? Release the children into the U.S., where many may end up homeless? Leave them in other detention facilities, which themselves are overcrowded? Send them back to their home country, where they may be facing danger?)
You want alternatives? How about putting the kids up in empty hotels with supervision...
Great idea...

Except... where are these 'empty hotels' supposed to come from? Even though people may not be travelling as much as before pre-covid, I suspect most hotels aren't completely empty. So you would be throwing a bunch of kids in with a bunch of adults.

And what type of 'supervision'? One supervisor per child? One or 2 per hotel? (That's a lot of kids for a supervisor to actually watch for in an otherwise uncontrolled environment.)

And why exactly are you trusting the 'supervision' in this case, since before you suggested that abuse of children was a problem? Do you think a supervisor will automatically be less inclined to be abusive just because they are in a hotel (where the kids would actually be more isolated)?

And hotels are not necessarily designed to keep your average teenager occupied... they are often in urban areas, with few recreational activities available (not to mention things like access to schools). So, the kid would have a much nicer room than if they were kept in a hotel, but everything else would probably suck.

I am not saying that the use of facilities like the camp described in your earlier posting are a good thing.... its not. But, things are a mess right now (no fault of Biden's) and any solution will have problems. Once widespread vaccination for Covid is done (meaning they don't have to run existing long-term shelters at half capacity), and once they have handled any backlog of separated children caused by Stubby McBonespurs and his merry band of white supremacists, then existing long-term care facilities should be able to handle any cases of separated children and these type of short-term facilities can be shut down.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 03, 2021, 09:52:23 am
You want alternatives? How about putting the kids up in empty hotels with supervision...
Great idea...

Except... where are these 'empty hotels' supposed to come from? Even though people may not be travelling as much as before pre-covid, I suspect most hotels aren't completely empty. So you would be throwing a bunch of kids in with a bunch of adults.

And what type of 'supervision'? One supervisor per child? One or 2 per hotel? (That's a lot of kids for a supervisor to actually watch for in an otherwise uncontrolled environment.)

And why exactly are you trusting the 'supervision' in this case, since before you suggested that abuse of children was a problem? Do you think a supervisor will automatically be less inclined to be abusive just because they are in a hotel (where the kids would actually be more isolated)?

And hotels are not necessarily designed to keep your average teenager occupied... they are often in urban areas, with few recreational activities available (not to mention things like access to schools). So, the kid would have a much nicer room than if they were kept in a hotel, but everything else would probably suck.

I am not saying that the use of facilities like the camp described in your earlier posting are a good thing.... its not. But, things are a mess right now (no fault of Biden's) and any solution will have problems. Once widespread vaccination for Covid is done (meaning they don't have to run existing long-term shelters at half capacity), and once they have handled any backlog of separated children caused by Stubby McBonespurs and his merry band of white supremacists, then existing long-term care facilities should be able to handle any cases of separated children and these type of short-term facilities can be shut down.

Ah yes you're right there are issues that need to be sorted out with the hotel plan so I guess it's better to leave them locked in shipping containers in the middle of the desert, surrounded by barbed wire and fencing and looked after by a shady contractor.

Look I get these things take time to fix. But continuing with the same approach as the previous administration is a bad look and needs to be questioned. We saw what happened with Obama when people checked out because they thought a "good guy" was in charge, no one should make that mistake again.

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 03, 2021, 02:25:27 pm
great political minds at work here.

$1,400 checks in COVID-19 relief bill would phase out at $80,000 instead of $100,000
 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/03/covid-stimulus-checks-phase-out-80-k-income-according-deal/6903812002/)

Quote
The change could mean many Americans who could have received at least some payment will now receive none.

You know what voters love? Not getting money they were promised.

And these are the kind of ratfuckers who are actually running things:

Quote
Moderate Senate Democrats such as Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.V., had pushed Biden to tighten the eligibility for the checks and had huddled with the president earlier in the week. Sen. Jon Tester, D-Mont., described their conversation as a discussion on better ďtargetingĒ the spending in the bill.

Manchin had pushed for the checks to phase out after $50,000 of income, though the House drafted a $75,000 threshold.

Dems would rather get wiped out in 2022 than help one person who might not need it. True masterminds of losing.

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 05, 2021, 05:07:55 pm
Dems before the election: "Joe Biden can use his relationships and experience to bring all sides to the table to get more progressive legislation passed!"

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaDd0Lovnp6OY5B-Q8YhKi4AIF4e6Wse3vgQ&usqp=CAU)


 8 Democrats defect on $15 minimum wage hike (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/05/democrats-15-minimum-wage-hike-473875)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on March 05, 2021, 07:08:14 pm
Dems before the election: "Joe Biden can use his relationships and experience to bring all sides to the table to get more progressive legislation passed!"

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaDd0Lovnp6OY5B-Q8YhKi4AIF4e6Wse3vgQ&usqp=CAU)


 8 Democrats defect on $15 minimum wage hike (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/05/democrats-15-minimum-wage-hike-473875)

I think the Dems found out that more than a few of them are bought and paid for by corporations still...    the progressive side was probably hoping to use the momentum from the Trump ouster to sneak this by these particular, rather non-progressive, corporatist colleagues.  Didnít work.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 08, 2021, 09:51:22 am
Re: Possibility of housing unaccompanied children in hotels instead of emergency temporary shelters...
Ah yes you're right there are issues that need to be sorted out with the hotel plan...
You are of course assuming that there actually are solutions to the problems I raised with your little "hotel plan".

Quote
...so I guess it's better to leave them locked in shipping containers in the middle of the desert, surrounded by barbed wire and fencing and looked after by a shady contractor.
Ah yes, a combination of a straw man combined with an appeal to emotion.

No, the kids are not "locked in shipping containers". From the description given in the earlier reference, it sounds like kids have freedom of movement, open recreational activities, etc. And it is true that the camps are isolated from population centers. But since these are kids in a foreign country with no guardian present, I suspect you would want to avoid situations where the headlines of the day become "Unaccompanied immigrant children living in the city abducted by serial killer".
Quote
Look I get these things take time to fix. But continuing with the same approach as the previous administration
Except of course they are not 'continuing with the same approach'.

First of all, the Biden administration is actually working on stopping the problems of unaccompanied minors... they are working to re-unite families, ending the use of criminal proceedings as a deterrent, etc. In fact, if it wasn't for Covid, they probably wouldn't need these temporary shelters.

Secondly, we have seen pictures of some of Trump's detention centers... things like former wal-marts converted to house immigrants. The camp (as described in your reference) is a far cry from such a facility.

The U.S. has had to deal with unaccompanied child immigrants for years (long before Stubby McBonespurs) became president. They have experience housing them in common shelters. Why exactly do you think its necessary to "re-invent the wheel"?

Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 08, 2021, 10:03:43 am
great political minds at work here.

$1,400 checks in COVID-19 relief bill would phase out at $80,000 instead of $100,000
 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/03/covid-stimulus-checks-phase-out-80-k-income-according-deal/6903812002/)

You know what voters love? Not getting money they were promised.

And these are the kind of ratfuckers who are actually running things:

Dems would rather get wiped out in 2022 than help one person who might not need it. True masterminds of losing.
Sigh... you really seem to have a hate-on for the Biden administration and "non-progressive" democrats, don't you.

First of all, lets see:

The average income in the U.S. in 2019 was ~$31k. The cutoff is being lowered from $100k to $80k. Which means that the people who are getting cut off have more than twice the national income. Seems to me that if you want to target a social program to those in need, giving the money to people who probably don't need it is probably a waste of time.

Now, will it cost the democrats votes? Yes, people do like receiving money. But:
- The number of people who would be cut off is relatively small
- Of the people who are getting cut off, many of them probably base their vote on more than just "am I getting a $1400 check". The improvement of the pandemic situation and increases in the economy will probably mean more to them than a one time check
- Of the people who are upset that they won't get their money, what is the alternative? Vote for a party that opposed any economic stimulus package?

Does it mean that the democrats will win in 2022? I suspect it will be a mixed bag... but NOT because of this stimulus package... I suspect what will happen is that the Democrats will hold the senate (largely because there are a larger number of republican senators up for re-election), but lose the house of representatives (because there is a trend for the party that holds the presidency to lose seats in the house.)
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 08, 2021, 10:15:09 am
I think the Dems found out that more than a few of them are bought and paid for by corporations still...    the progressive side was probably hoping to use the momentum from the Trump ouster to sneak this by these particular, rather non-progressive, corporatist colleagues.  Didnít work.
Keep in mind that the whole "minimum wage" thing is a little more complex than some people make it out to be.

Yes, it certainly sounds good... "Give people a living wage", but the Congressional Budget Office (a non-partisan part of the government) has pointed out that a large increase in the minimum wage might help many low income workers, but it would also potentially cause thousands of others to lose their jobs.

From: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/08/raising-minimum-wage-to-15-would-cost-1point4-million-jobs-cbo-says.html
Raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour...would cost 1.4 million jobs over the next four years while lifting 900,000 people out of poverty, according to a Congressional Budget Office report Monday....a nonpartisan agency that provides budgetary analysis to Congress.

If you are a congress-critter from some state with a relatively low cost of living, you might look at the trade-off between wage-increases and unemployment as something that results in more harm than benefit.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on March 08, 2021, 11:26:14 am
Keep in mind that the whole "minimum wage" thing is a little more complex than some people make it out to be.

Yes, it certainly sounds good... "Give people a living wage", but the Congressional Budget Office (a non-partisan part of the government) has pointed out that a large increase in the minimum wage might help many low income workers, but it would also potentially cause thousands of others to lose their jobs.

Exactly.  Do-gooders who don't even read one economics paper on the subject think by simply raising the minimum wage substantially there won't be other effects on the economy or on people making minimum wage.  As if things happen in a bubble.  It's like when conservatives invaded Iraq to remove Saddam and didn't understand the power vacuum it would cause.

It would be very nice if people making minimum wage could simply get a raise to $15 but economics isn't that simple.  More jobs will be shifted overseas, more jobs will be automated etc.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on March 08, 2021, 11:29:16 am
great political minds at work here.

$1,400 checks in COVID-19 relief bill would phase out at $80,000 instead of $100,000
 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/03/covid-stimulus-checks-phase-out-80-k-income-according-deal/6903812002/)

You know what voters love? Not getting money they were promised.

And these are the kind of ratfuckers who are actually running things:

Dems would rather get wiped out in 2022 than help one person who might not need it. True masterminds of losing.

So you want Biden/Dems to buy off voters by giving people money who don't need it as US gov drowns in debt?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on March 08, 2021, 11:33:12 am
Sigh... you really seem to have a hate-on for the Biden administration and "non-progressive" democrats, don't you.

First of all, lets see:

The average income in the U.S. in 2019 was ~$31k. The cutoff is being lowered from $100k to $80k. Which means that the people who are getting cut off have more than twice the national income. Seems to me that if you want to target a social program to those in need, giving the money to people who probably don't need it is probably a waste of time.

Now, will it cost the democrats votes? Yes, people do like receiving money. But:

Biden not following the longtime Canadian tradition of buying off voters will their own money.  "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" is a dead meme in Canada.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 08, 2021, 01:18:09 pm
Keep in mind that the whole "minimum wage" thing is a little more complex than some people make it out to be.

Yes, it certainly sounds good... "Give people a living wage", but the Congressional Budget Office (a non-partisan part of the government) has pointed out that a large increase in the minimum wage might help many low income workers, but it would also potentially cause thousands of others to lose their jobs.

From: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/08/raising-minimum-wage-to-15-would-cost-1point4-million-jobs-cbo-says.html
Raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour...would cost 1.4 million jobs over the next four years while lifting 900,000 people out of poverty, according to a Congressional Budget Office report Monday....a nonpartisan agency that provides budgetary analysis to Congress.

If you are a congress-critter from some state with a relatively low cost of living, you might look at the trade-off between wage-increases and unemployment as something that results in more harm than benefit.


Counterpoint: No, a $15 minimum wage wonít cost 1.4 million jobs
  (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/02/24/minimum-wage-economic-research-job-loss/)

Study after study has shown the correlation between increased minimum wage and lost jobs is very weak at best.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 08, 2021, 01:18:55 pm
Exactly.  Do-gooders who don't even read one economics paper on the subject think by simply raising the minimum wage substantially there won't be other effects on the economy or on people making minimum wage.  As if things happen in a bubble.  It's like when conservatives invaded Iraq to remove Saddam and didn't understand the power vacuum it would cause.

It would be very nice if people making minimum wage could simply get a raise to $15 but economics isn't that simple.  More jobs will be shifted overseas, more jobs will be automated etc.

lol you mean the same thing that's happening now with a $7.25 minimum wage?
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 08, 2021, 01:25:58 pm
So you want Biden/Dems to buy off voters by giving people money who don't need it as US gov drowns in debt?

If the purpose of the cheques is to stimulate the economy, menaing you want people to spend that cash, you'd want to target it as broadly as possible. For those people on the upper end you can just claw it back in taxes later.

If the purpose is to help those most in need, then a one-time $1,400 cheque isn't going to make a big difference in the long run.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 08, 2021, 01:42:33 pm
Quote
Keep in mind that the whole "minimum wage" thing is a little more complex than some people make it out to be.

Yes, it certainly sounds good... "Give people a living wage", but the Congressional Budget Office (a non-partisan part of the government) has pointed out that a large increase in the minimum wage might help many low income workers, but it would also potentially cause thousands of others to lose their jobs.

Counterpoint: No, a $15 minimum wage wonít cost 1.4 million jobs
  (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/02/24/minimum-wage-economic-research-job-loss/)
Counter counterpoint:

From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/04/17/the-record-is-clear-minimum-wage-hikes-destroy-jobs/?sh=67b2ae7d69c1
In a comprehensive, 182-page summary of the research on this subject from the last two decades, economists David Neumark (UC-Irvine) and William Wascher (Federal Reserve Board) determined that 85 percent of the best research points to a loss of jobs following a minimum wage increase.
...
Twenty-eight states raised minimum wages in the four years prior to passage of the last federal minimum wage increase. Economists from Cornell and American Universities...found no associated reduction in poverty rates.


Here's what I think the problem is...

A small minimum wage increase will have no impact on employment. A large minimum wage increase will. Most minimum wage increases have been small... so you will get studies that show "increasing minimum wages doesn't impact employment". And progressives can of course point to those studies and say "see? No impact". When minimum wage increases are larger, they DO have a bigger impact on employment. But since such big increases are rare, you don't always have the same evidence. 
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on March 08, 2021, 02:00:57 pm
If the purpose of the cheques is to stimulate the economy, menaing you want people to spend that cash, you'd want to target it as broadly as possible. For those people on the upper end you can just claw it back in taxes later.

If the purpose is to help those most in need, then a one-time $1,400 cheque isn't going to make a big difference in the long run.

I guess it depends on the purpose of the cheques.  You could give it to people making 100k i guess.  I think i'd rather give it to middle class and poor people, they'll definitely spent it plus they need it more.  80k vs 100k doesn't sound like a big difference, those people won't go homeless either way.

I would think there's lots of people out there who need the money, maybe the focus should be on need.  $1400 would be a big help to a lot of people living paycheck to paycheck or out of work.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 08, 2021, 02:14:02 pm
Quote
Exactly.  Do-gooders who don't even read one economics paper on the subject think by simply raising the minimum wage substantially there won't be other effects on the economy or on people making minimum wage.  As if things happen in a bubble.  It's like when conservatives invaded Iraq to remove Saddam and didn't understand the power vacuum it would cause.

It would be very nice if people making minimum wage could simply get a raise to $15 but economics isn't that simple.  More jobs will be shifted overseas, more jobs will be automated etc.
lol you mean the same thing that's happening now with a $7.25 minimum wage?
Actually, while the federal minimum wage in the U.S. might be $7.25, the fact is that many states/regions have higher minimum wages... New York State had an $11.80 minimum wage, while California's was $13. The presence of higher minimum wages in at least some of the larger populated states would be enough to drive companies to automation.

An anecdote (for what its worth)...

I used to be friends with a person who managed a McDonald's. (This was before the automated touch screens.) Part of her job was scheduling employees. While they didn't have a direct "minimum wage increased, cut X employees" rule, what they did do is had a rule that "labor may only be a certain percentage of total expenses". When minimum wages went up, they didn't automate (since that wasn't an option then), but what she did do was tighten the schedule... where they may have 1 or 2 extra employees scheduled over a dinner rush (just in case it was busier than expected), they instead scheduled the bare minimum, in line with the guidelines for labor expenses. So, overall employees were getting less hours.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: segnosaur on March 08, 2021, 02:26:14 pm
If the purpose of the cheques is to stimulate the economy, menaing you want people to spend that cash, you'd want to target it as broadly as possible.
Money is not in infinite resource. As such, decisions have to be made.

Individuals who are earning more than twice the average are less likely to spend any unexpected cash... instead, they are more likely to save/invest it. While that might provide a small benefit, it is less optimal that either increasing payments to the less wealthy, or investing in infrastructure. (And the Covid relief bill did transfer funds to other levels of government to help with infrastructure.)

Quote
If the purpose is to help those most in need, then a one-time $1,400 cheque isn't going to make a big difference in the long run.
There are a lot of people who are experiencing temporary shortfalls directly related to Covid... (loss of employment hours, unexpected expenses).. often problems that will go away in a few months once things start to get back to normal.

For those people, a $1400 check will make a difference.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 08, 2021, 04:21:58 pm
Money is not in infinite resource. As such, decisions have to be made.

Actually it is.

And it's funny how it's always "we need to make tough decisions" when it comes to dividing a pie meant to help people, but foreign wars get a blank cheque.

Quote
Individuals who are earning more than twice the average are less likely to spend any unexpected cash... instead, they are more likely to save/invest it. While that might provide a small benefit, it is less optimal that either increasing payments to the less wealthy, or investing in infrastructure. (And the Covid relief bill did transfer funds to other levels of government to help with infrastructure.)

The point is giving up to 12 million people less money than they got under trump (money that you can get back from them come tax time anyway) because of some aversion to not means testing everything to death is not smart politics.
Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Black Dog on March 08, 2021, 04:57:03 pm
Counterpoint: No, a $15 minimum wage wonít cost 1.4 million jobs
  (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/02/24/minimum-wage-economic-research-job-loss/)
Counter counterpoint:

From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/04/17/the-record-is-clear-minimum-wage-hikes-destroy-jobs/?sh=67b2ae7d69c1
In a comprehensive, 182-page summary of the research on this subject from the last two decades, economists David Neumark (UC-Irvine) and William Wascher (Federal Reserve Board) determined that 85 percent of the best research points to a loss of jobs following a minimum wage increase.
...
Twenty-eight states raised minimum wages in the four years prior to passage of the last federal minimum wage increase. Economists from Cornell and American Universities...found no associated reduction in poverty rates.


Here's what I think the problem is...

A small minimum wage increase will have no impact on employment. A large minimum wage increase will. Most minimum wage increases have been small... so you will get studies that show "increasing minimum wages doesn't impact employment". And progressives can of course point to those studies and say "see? No impact". When minimum wage increases are larger, they DO have a bigger impact on employment. But since such big increases are rare, you don't always have the same evidence.

Just leaving this here: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Employment_Policies_Institute


Title: Re: The Joe Biden Thread
Post by: Nipples Von Graham on September 09, 2021, 02:22:52 pm
Joe is still using the "Build Back Better" slogan in his twitter posts.  Like is he going out of his way to feed the conspiracy theorists?

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1435999951230840842

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1435605847225339911