Canadian Politics Today
Federal Politics => Canadian Politics => Topic started by: Queefer Sutherland on June 28, 2020, 11:58:19 am
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https://globalnews.ca/news/7075248/canada-china-interference-permissive-target/
This article is frightening
“China is the No. 1 threat to Canada and has been for some time,” David Mulroney, former ambassador to China, said in an interview.
China has used its economic leverage to secure “the voices” of political and business leaders in Canada with “sweetheart business deals” and “various inducements,” including lucrative board positions or honours in China, he said. And as a result, Mulroney said he often hears people reciting Beijing’s line on issues such as the extradition case of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou or are silent in the face of China’s mass detention of Uyghurs and incursions on democracy in Hong Kong.
“There are people a lot more senior than I was in government, and they have some serious business links with China,” Mulroney said. “China is very willing to weaponize trade and investment to compel people to say what they want them to say.”
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“Canada is kind of a sleepy and unaware target,” he said. “We don’t have the same kind of vigilance that you now see in places like Australia and New Zealand. That had better change.”
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It is frightening but hardly surprising. Canada has to be one of the most complacent countries in the world when it comes to China's antics. We are dumb enough to think everyone likes us. Also, too afraid of being labeled with the R word.
If nothing else, hopefully the Meng case will have opened our eyes and Canadians will demand more from their governments.
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https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-military-attack-on-nortel/
Canada is still far too complacent, The RCMP says it still doesn't have the resources to investigate and monitor these activities and Canada still lacks the strong laws on industrial espionage that exist in countries like the US and Australia. There is no criminal law protecting trade secrets or intellectual property in Canada.
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https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-military-attack-on-nortel/
Canada is still far too complacent, The RCMP says it still doesn't have the resources to investigate and monitor these activities and Canada still lacks the strong laws on industrial espionage that exist in countries like the US and Australia. There is no criminal law protecting trade secrets or intellectual property in Canada.
how much credence are you prepared to give to U.S. 'Trump-era' politicization of claimed infringement on intellectual property... particularly when Trump scuttled the TPP and in so doing... the American/Obama admin led efforts towards including TPP provisional coverage for IP in areas such as patents and pharmaceuticals, copyright, Internet service provider (ISP) liability, and IP rights enforcement? How much credence, hey?
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I think we should give this a lot of credence, and so do our other allies like the UK, Australia, and New Zealand. China isn't our friend, Wuhan Waldo.
-k
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I think we should give this a lot of credence, and so do our other allies like the UK, Australia, and New Zealand. China isn't our friend, Wuhan Waldo.
-k
It really surprises me that Canada has no criminal law against theft of private intellectual property, only government property. You can rob a company blind and only be subject to civil law.
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I think we should give this a lot of credence, and so do our other allies like the UK, Australia, and New Zealand. China isn't our friend, Wuhan Waldo.
-k
Maybe waldo still shares his hero's admiration for China's "basic dictatorship". I'm hoping JT has grown out of it.
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how much credence are you prepared to give to U.S. 'Trump-era' politicization of claimed infringement on intellectual property... particularly when Trump scuttled the TPP and in so doing... the American/Obama admin led efforts towards including TPP provisional coverage for IP in areas such as patents and pharmaceuticals, copyright, Internet service provider (ISP) liability, and IP rights enforcement? How much credence, hey?
I think we should give this a lot of credence, and so do our other allies like the UK, Australia, and New Zealand. China isn't our friend, Wuhan Waldo.
member kimmy, such a childish statement is yours! Of course my comment went right over your peanut-brain! Clearly Trump/admin are engaged in iterative trade 'engagements' with China; aka, the most significant Trump politicization of any statements and policies toward China. Once member wilber's article finished dredging up the 2004 Nortel scenario, the article spun into Trump admin claims/statements toward China. Notwithstanding this most overt Trump/admin politicization, I also highlighted the Trump/admin actions in the pulling out of TPP... the resulting remnants, CPTPP, do not include those most pointed and direct provisions intended to deal with IP concerns, broadly and implied towards China. And you want to put credence toward anything coming from Trump/admin? Well, sure... your naivety always leads your way! ;D
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Maybe waldo still shares his hero's admiration for China's "basic dictatorship". I'm hoping JT has grown out of it.
member wilber, although provided many times previously let me showcase your intellectual dishonesty and provide the full statement/context; made in 2013 before PM Trudeau became PM Trudeau... and I believe, and will stand to be corrected, before PM Trudeau even became the leader of the Liberal Party of Canada:
There’s a level of admiration I actually have for China, because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime and say, ‘We need to go green … we need to start investing in solar.'
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member wilber, although provided many times previously let me showcase your intellectual dishonesty and provide the full statement/context; made in 2013 before PM Trudeau became PM Trudeau... and I believe, and will stand to be corrected, before PM Trudeau even became the leader of the Liberal Party of Canada:
It has allowed China to do a lot of other things as well.
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It has allowed China to do a lot of other things as well.
no shyte Sherlock! But that's YOU taking a most pointed comment and applying it broadly to "anything/everything"! As I said, that's your intellectual dishonesty in how you're choosing to use/leverage the initial comment.
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no shyte Sherlock! But that's YOU taking a most pointed comment and applying it broadly to "anything/everything"! As I said, that's your intellectual dishonesty in how you're choosing to use/leverage the initial comment.
Trudeau said it seven months after he became party leader. I’m sure the waldo would be as equally forgiving if a Conservative leader said the same thing. :D
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Maybe waldo still shares his hero's admiration for China's "basic dictatorship". I'm hoping JT has grown out of it.
member wilber, although provided many times previously let me showcase your intellectual dishonesty and provide the full statement/context; made in 2013 before PM Trudeau became PM Trudeau... and I believe, and will stand to be corrected, before PM Trudeau even became the leader of the Liberal Party of Canada:
There’s a level of admiration I actually have for China, because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime and say, ‘We need to go green … we need to start investing in solar.'
Trudeau said it seven months after he became party leader. I’m sure the waldo would be as equally forgiving if a Conservative leader said the same thing. :D
no - it's a factual statement... in terms of implementing green tech, yes... China's form of government allows them to readily deploy/invest in green tech! It's only YOU and your cConservative ilk that wants to extend upon a pointed targeted statement and claim it was meant to apply to anything/everything; i.e., YOU showcasing your intellectual dishonest and purposeful misuse of the statement and how it was intended!
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I wonder if those other countries had a PM sign a deal that tied them economically to China until 2045?
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I wonder if those other countries had a PM sign a deal that tied them economically to China until 2045?
given how member wilber railed on about PM Trudeau's 2013 statement, surely he will have much to say about... to criticize about... the Harper/CPC FIPA agreement with China - surely!
(https://i.imgur.com/vvusOOv.jpg)
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So what do we do about it ladies and gents, continue to be patsies?
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2015: O'Tool on the Harper FIPA with China!
(https://i.imgur.com/D8lNeMf.jpg)
The FIPA with China restricts Canada's options on climate change (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/the-fipa-with-china-restricts-canadas-options-on-climate-change/article25184916/)
You may ask, why would the federal government agree to a FIPA with China that puts an uncertain and uncontrollable price tag on Canada's options to respond to climate change – and other important issues too? Why would the government move power over our future from Canada's legislatures, governments, and courts to Chinese investors and FIPA arbitrators?
I think the straightest answer is that Mr. Harper seems to have wanted it that way. If one accepts climate change as a pressing concern, it is hard to imagine a more epic fail than the FIPA.
now: as the CPC leader, a "changed" O'Tool ;D
He {Erin O'Toole} also said that his party will be tough on China: “We will trade freely with free nations and not spend our time chasing trade deals with predatory countries like Communist China.”
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2015: O'Tool on the Harper FIPA with China!
(https://i.imgur.com/D8lNeMf.jpg)
The FIPA with China restricts Canada's options on climate change (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/the-fipa-with-china-restricts-canadas-options-on-climate-change/article25184916/)
now: as the CPC leader, a "changed" O'Tool ;D
Do we have a "changed" Trudeau since 2015 or does he still admire China?
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Do we have a "changed" Trudeau since 2015 or does he still admire China?
You’re picking nits.
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You’re picking nits.
Not really. waldo claims that O'Toole would stand by what he thought about China in 2015. Would Trudeau do the same? Would waldo claim he does?
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Not really. waldo claims that O'Toole would stand by what he thought about China in 2015. Would Trudeau do the same? Would waldo claim he does?
what claim are you... claiming... I made? I provided a HOC comment O'Tool made in regards the Harper/CPC FIPA with China... while also adding the most recent statement he made concerning trade with China. By the by member wilber, that FIPA has locked-in certain relations between Canada & China. So, of course, you're quite willing to give O'Tool a pass for being a part of the Harper/CPC government responsible for implementing that Canada-China FIPA - of course you are! In any case, feel free to try and carve out a, "what would PM Trudeau do" based on the statement you're taking such liberties with; again:
Maybe waldo still shares his hero's admiration for China's "basic dictatorship". I'm hoping JT has grown out of it.
member wilber, although provided many times previously let me showcase your intellectual dishonesty and provide the full statement/context; made in 2013 before PM Trudeau became PM Trudeau... and I believe, and will stand to be corrected, before PM Trudeau even became the leader of the Liberal Party of Canada:
There’s a level of admiration I actually have for China, because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime and say, ‘We need to go green … we need to start investing in solar.'
you opened this up by dredging up that 2013 comment Justin Trudeau made (before becoming PM Trudeau) - yet, somehow, you've chosen to say diddly, to say nuthin, about that Harper/CPC FIPA with China. Go figure, hey! ;D
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Do we have a "changed" Trudeau since 2015 or does he still admire China?
He didn't say that. It's pretty clear what he meant. It's enviable that they can just get things done. Democracy, by comparison, is messy.
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He didn't say that. It's pretty clear what he meant. It's enviable that they can just get things done. Democracy, by comparison, is messy.
And Mussolini made the trains run on time.
I also said in post #6 that I hoped JT had grown out of it.
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And Mussolini made the trains run on time.
I also said in post #6 that I hoped JT had grown out of it.
I agree with him. It's enviable that they can just get things done. It doesn't mean I want a dictatorship, and it doesn't mean that he wants a dictatorship.
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I agree with him. It's enviable that they can just get things done. It doesn't mean I want a dictatorship, and it doesn't mean that he wants a dictatorship.
You should look up, “Mussolini made the trains run on time”. That is exactly what JT was doing whether he meant to or not.
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Anyway, I can just see the Chinese laughing their asses off as they watch Canadians throw partisan rocks at each other while they walk all over us.
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You should look up, “Mussolini made the trains run on time”. That is exactly what JT was doing whether he meant to or not.
I get the reference. It isn't the same reference.
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I get the reference. It isn't the same reference.
it is the same reference. It the same suggestion that because a dictatorship can do something right, dictatorships can't be all that bad.
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it is the same reference. It the same suggestion that because a dictatorship can do something right, dictatorships can't be all that bad.
that's your intellectually dishonest, self-serving, agenda-driven interpretation - nothing more; nothing less. And again, you still refuse to say WORD ONE about the Harper Conservative FIPA agreement between Canada & China. Instead you fixate on this... you use it to deflect away from, to distract away from, that FIPA! Of course you do!
by the by, it's also a myth that Italian trains ran on time... notwithstanding most of the improvement work to the Italian railway system occurred prior to Mussolini's governing. At it's most "pliable" interpretation, that saying might come down to, "something good can result even from the worst of circumstances".
c'mon member wilber, be better/do better!
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that's your intellectually dishonest, self-serving, agenda-driven interpretation - nothing more; nothing less. And again, you still refuse to say WORD ONE about the Harper Conservative FIPA agreement between Canada & China. Instead you fixate on this... you use it to deflect away from, to distract away from, that FIPA! Of course you do!
by the by, it's also a myth that Italian trains ran on time... notwithstanding most of the improvement work to the Italian railway system occurred prior to Mussolini's governing. At it's most "pliable" interpretation, that saying might come down to, "something good can result even from the worst of circumstances".
c'mon member wilber, be better/do better!
But but Harper.
Harper's agreement turned out to be a mistake.
Again, the meaning of the saying goes right over your head. Whether Mussolini made the trains run on time or not is irrelevant.
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Harper's agreement turned out to be a mistake.
with all your fixation and twistin'&turnin' and incorrect interpretation of that 2013 Justin Trudeau statement (before he became PM Trudeau), care to rate that Harper FIPA mistake to the emphasis you put on your intellectually dishonest interpretation of that 2013 statement? Let's say on a 1-10 scale, with 10 being the biggest, as you say, mistake - yes?
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with all your fixation and twistin'&turnin' and incorrect interpretation of that 2013 Justin Trudeau statement (before he became PM Trudeau), care to rate that Harper FIPA mistake to the emphasis you put on your intellectually dishonest interpretation of that 2013 statement? Let's say on a 1-10 scale, with 10 being the biggest, as you say, mistake - yes?
I said I hoped JT had grown out of it. Post #6
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But but Harper.
Harper's agreement turned out to be a mistake.
Again, the meaning of the saying goes right over your head. Whether Mussolini made the trains run on time or not is irrelevant.
The agreement is binding for 31 years from 2014. 31 years.
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The agreement is binding for 31 years from 2014. 31 years.
I don’t know what options we have but if there are few, that is not good.
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I don’t know what options we have but if there are few, that is not good.
There is no way for Canada to unilaterally cancel the deal.
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I said I hoped JT had grown out of it. Post #6
apparently... just as you hoped Canada could... would... just "grow out of that 30+ year Harper Conservative FIPA agreement" with China, hey! ;D
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apparently... just as you hoped Canada could... would... just "grow out of that 30+ year Harper Conservative FIPA agreement" with China, hey! ;D
Unlike waldo, at least I am not such a slave to partisanship that I can't admit to Conservatives or any other parity making a mistake. They all make them.
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Unlike waldo, at least I am not such a slave to partisanship that I can't admit to Conservatives or any other parity making a mistake. They all make them.
oh really - step-up and admit your {purposeful} partisan mistake in how you attempted to manipulate that 2013 statement - sure you can! ;D Trains runnin' on time!!! Oh my member wilber, oh my!
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oh really - step-up and admit your {purposeful} partisan mistake in how you attempted to manipulate that 2013 statement - sure you can! ;D Trains runnin' on time!!! Oh my member wilber, oh my!
wadlo, we all know that Liberals never, ever make mistakes, not ever because the wadlo says so.
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wadlo, we all know that Liberals never, ever make mistakes, not ever because the wadlo says so.
how did I miss this gem! Always a tell when you mess with the wadlo's name! ;D
by the by member wilber, from yesterday... the following O'Tool tweet: well... are you with him? Well are ya?
(https://i.imgur.com/VZgmPxY.png)
(notwithstanding the tweet's first sentence is an outright lie... and we've already dispensed with how he/you purposely manipulate that 2013 statement - context, what context?)
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There's nuance missing to this discussion. China abuses human rights, especially against the Uighur people. The stuff that's been reported lately is appalling. However, how do we go about addressing it? How do we get China to change? Will closer economic ties allow Canada to persuade China on their domestic affairs? Because that's the theory behind greater integration. Greater integration also benefits Canadian industries. So it's a lot more complicated than CHINA BAD, CUT ALL TIES. This is a massively complicated matter.
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This is a massively complicated matter.
It is, and since it is the conversation will be managed by those with PR resources.
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It is, and since it is the conversation will be managed by those with PR resources.
The discourse will be, yeah.
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There's nuance missing to this discussion. China abuses human rights, especially against the Uighur people. The stuff that's been reported lately is appalling. However, how do we go about addressing it? How do we get China to change? Will closer economic ties allow Canada to persuade China on their domestic affairs? Because that's the theory behind greater integration. Greater integration also benefits Canadian industries. So it's a lot more complicated than CHINA BAD, CUT ALL TIES. This is a massively complicated matter.
True but it seems most of the tie cutting has been coming from the Chinese. Certainly, entering into any kind of new economic agreements would be a big mistake and Canadian companies should be very wary of investing in China.
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how much credence are you prepared to give to U.S. 'Trump-era' politicization of claimed infringement on intellectual property... particularly when Trump scuttled the TPP and in so doing... the American/Obama admin led efforts towards including TPP provisional coverage for IP in areas such as patents and pharmaceuticals, copyright, Internet service provider (ISP) liability, and IP rights enforcement? How much credence, hey?
China was never a part of TPP. Also, China doesn't follow international rules or laws. But they love signing these kinds of agreements because we're the suckers who abide by them while they steal and counterfeit everything.
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I think we should give this a lot of credence, and so do our other allies like the UK, Australia, and New Zealand. China isn't our friend, Wuhan Waldo.
-k
Australia and New Zealand. Yes, the evil alt-right fascist dictatorship of....New Zealand, have been far more vigilant because they're across the sea from China and so have much closer relations with them. In other words, they've figured it out WTF China is up to.
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I wonder if those other countries had a PM sign a deal that tied them economically to China until 2045?
Harper was China's biatch about the same as Trudeau is. When is Canada going to stop being China's lapdog and grow some brains and testicles?
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The agreement is binding for 31 years from 2014. 31 years.
China will not abide by the agreement. What would be the punishment exactly? What other agreements have they not cheated on?
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China was never a part of TPP. Also, China doesn't follow international rules or laws. But they love signing these kinds of agreements because we're the suckers who abide by them while they steal and counterfeit everything.
I really missed your cocksure bravado naivety!
President Obama: The TPP would let America, not China, lead the way on global trade
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/president-obama-the-tpp-would-let-america-not-china-lead-the-way-on-global-trade/2016/05/02/680540e4-0fd0-11e6-93ae-50921721165d_story.html)
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There's nuance missing to this discussion. China abuses human rights, especially against the Uighur people. The stuff that's been reported lately is appalling. However, how do we go about addressing it? How do we get China to change? Will closer economic ties allow Canada to persuade China on their domestic affairs? Because that's the theory behind greater integration. Greater integration also benefits Canadian industries. So it's a lot more complicated than CHINA BAD, CUT ALL TIES. This is a massively complicated matter.
The way to address is to maximize our leverage with China. That's the main key in any negotiation. We need to form an strong economic alliance with other liberal democracies and act as one. This is what OPEC does. Canada alone vs China or UK vs China etc. doesn't stand a chance. Even the US would benefit with a ton of other countries on their side to pressure them to follow the international law and international agreements.
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China will not abide by the agreement. What would be the punishment exactly? What other agreements have they not cheated on?
??? how could all those so critical of the Harper FIPA get it so wrong - be so out of tune with you... how could they have determined that the FIPA so lopsidedly favours China over Canada? ;D
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The way to address is to maximize our leverage with China. That's the main key in any negotiation. We need to form an strong economic alliance with other liberal democracies and act as one. This is what OPEC does. Canada alone vs China or UK vs China etc. doesn't stand a chance. Even the US would benefit with a ton of other countries on their side to pressure them to follow the international law and international agreements.
waldo illumination: and once that azzhole Trump is dispensed with, the U.S. is expected back in the fold... for now, till then: CPTPP
The Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) is a free trade agreement between Canada and 10 other countries in the Asia-Pacific region: Australia, Brunei, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore and Vietnam. Once fully implemented, the 11 countries will form a trading bloc representing 495 million consumers and 13.5% of global GDP, providing Canada with preferential access to key markets in Asia and Latin America.
On December 30, 2018 the CPTPP entered into force among the first six countries to ratify the agreement – Canada, Australia, Japan, Mexico, New Zealand, and Singapore. On January 14, 2019, the CPTPP entered into force for Vietnam.
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I really missed your cocksure bravado naivety!
President Obama: The TPP would let America, not China, lead the way on global trade
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/president-obama-the-tpp-would-let-america-not-china-lead-the-way-on-global-trade/2016/05/02/680540e4-0fd0-11e6-93ae-50921721165d_story.html)
Obama is a neoliberal, who knew!
Now if you'll excuse me i'm off to go shop at Zellers. Oh wait nevermind, Walmart entered Canada after NAFTA and put them out of business. And then Target took its dead carcass and shat on it & left.
Let's hook up our 5G with Huawei so China can continue ramming us in the backside, sounds good WallyWorld? Maybe China can pay off a few of our politicians with money & favours and get that one done hmm? Where's John "I lick the CPC's taint while on my knees begging like a good boy" McCallum when you need him?
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waldo illumination: and once that azzhole Trump is dispensed with, the U.S. is expected back in the fold... for now, till then: CPTPP
Where is the UK, Germany, France etc? I'm also talking a bloc, not free-trade agreement.
I'm very proud that JT was able to sneak "Progressive" into that deal's title, great job! Progress!
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(https://i.imgur.com/ycxbpue.png)
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booby (bo͞o′bē)
n. pl. boo·bies Slang
1. A woman's breast.
2. A male mammary gland that has become enlarged by the influence of estrogen or appears enlarged because of excess fat over the gland.
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True but it seems most of the tie cutting has been coming from the Chinese. Certainly, entering into any kind of new economic agreements would be a big mistake and Canadian companies should be very wary of investing in China.
I don't disagree with this at all and I'm sure you know me well enough by now to know that using capitalist imperatives to persuade political action is not something I agree with anyway.