Canadian Politics Today

Federal Politics => Canadian Politics => Topic started by: the_squid on April 14, 2020, 02:57:19 pm


Title: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 14, 2020, 02:57:19 pm
Donít worry about CV-19...   itís just killing the oldies!   So says a Conservative MP from BC.

(https://1fdj2e2egv3mhacyt2xo9f01-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/21265907_web1_200414-MRN-Marc-Dalton-Tweet-deleted-tweet_1.jpeg)

Nice sentiments....   at least heís honest about what he thinks, I guess.  Maybe his constituents will appreciate his honesty!  Hopefully they take more notice of his stupidity...   what does he think millions of sick people overwhelming the medical system are going to do to the economy?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: MH on April 14, 2020, 03:13:26 pm
They don't care about old people.

Just veterans...

And...

I don't know... pets ?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 14, 2020, 03:28:14 pm
They don't care about old people.

Just veterans...

And...

I don't know... pets ?

Is he willing to sacrifice his own parents for a buck?  I don’t get it...  Is he a sociopath?   Was he impaired on drugs and/or alcohol when he wrote that? 

How does one think that sacrificing old folks, letting them die alone in agony, as long as we can “get the economy going again”, is a good plan?

Even if he is a sociopath who thinks this is a good idea, how could one be a politician and not realize that, politically, this is just a dumb thing to say.   Most people aren’t sociopaths and aren’t willing to watch their parents/grandparents die...   
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 14, 2020, 03:29:38 pm
That MP is pretty dumb.  A true Covidiot.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: MH on April 14, 2020, 03:30:01 pm

How does one think that sacrificing old folks, letting them die alone in agony, as long as we can ďget the economy going againĒ, is a good plan?

It's a 'values' problem.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 14, 2020, 05:10:14 pm
Donít worry about CV-19...   itís just killing the oldies!   So says a Conservative MP from BC.

(https://1fdj2e2egv3mhacyt2xo9f01-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/21265907_web1_200414-MRN-Marc-Dalton-Tweet-deleted-tweet_1.jpeg)

Nice sentiments....   at least heís honest about what he thinks, I guess.  Maybe his constituents will appreciate his honesty!  Hopefully they take more notice of his stupidity...   what does he think millions of sick people overwhelming the medical system are going to do to the economy?

A significant portion of these deaths have been inside nursing homes.   Preventing kimmy from going to the bar after work doesn't do anything to protect nursing home residents.

At some point it's going to be time to end the general lockdown and go into something more focused. By region, and by risk factors.   I'm not saying it's now, but it's not too soon to start talking about when.  The economy can't stay on hold forever. The idea of rationing medical care sounds pretty cruel, but it becomes irrelevant if we don't have the funds to keep the medical system running.


 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 14, 2020, 05:32:15 pm
A significant portion of these deaths have been inside nursing homes.   Preventing kimmy from going to the bar after work doesn't do anything to protect nursing home residents.

So you go to the bar....  get Coronavirus...  then a week later have dinner with your friend who is an airline stewardess...   who visits their friend who works in a nursing home, who then spreads it to their old farts...

Can you really not see how preventing you from going to the bar is going to prevent it from getting into a nursing home?   

Quote
At some point it's going to be time to end the general lockdown and go into something more focused. By region, and by risk factors.   I'm not saying it's now, but it's not too soon to start talking about when.  The economy can't stay on hold forever. The idea of rationing medical care sounds pretty cruel, but it becomes irrelevant if we don't have the funds to keep the medical system running.

At some point.,..  yes.  Too soon and many more people are going to die than need to.   You are looking at it like we will all die of starvation, or social-drinking deprivation because this will last forever?   No one says this will last forever, but it will probably be months. 
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 14, 2020, 05:55:09 pm
So you go to the bar....  get Coronavirus...  then a week later have dinner with your friend who is an airline stewardess...   who visits their friend who works in a nursing home, who the spreads it to their old farts...

Can you really not see how preventing you from going to the bar is going to prevent it from getting into a nursing home?   

Maybe instead of shutting down everything, maybe they can quarantine nursing homes. Maybe instead of telling everybody to stay home, tell people over 50 to stay home.

At some point.,..  yes.  Too soon and many more people are going to die than need to.   You are looking at it like we will all die of starvation, or social-drinking deprivation because this will last forever?   No one says this will last forever, but it will probably be months. 

This is financially ruinous for huge numbers of people. And the stuff that is being most affected by coronavirus and the shutdown is stuff that young people rely on for employment. More than anybody else, young people are affected by the shutdown of retail, restaurants, hospitality, tourism. Pension money and old age security will keep on coming for the boomers and their elderly parents, but paychecks are stopping for an awful lot of young people. When do colleges and universities reopen? How do people finish their degrees in the social distancing era?

While we shut down everything so that septuagenarians get the chance to become octogenarians, young people are being **** over once again.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 14, 2020, 06:12:33 pm
Maybe instead of shutting down everything, maybe they can quarantine nursing homes. Maybe instead of telling everybody to stay home, tell people over 50 to stay home.

And healthcare professionals?  They need to stay home too?  Plus, their families....   because if their families come into contact, then they will get it too.

So...  let’s try and run down the list here.... 

Healthcare workers...   including clinics, not just hospitals... 
Fire departments...
Ambulance attendants...
Anyone who might clean the houses of those folks.... 
Any office people who may work for any of those people...   HR...  receptionists....
The plumber who unclogged the doctor’s shitter is now locked dow for 3 weeks...  as well as the plumber’s family...   

All these people and their families must be locked down.   But not you.  You may go to the bar.   Any planes that take nurses to service remote communities...  those pilots must be locked down now, and their families....   So now that pilot that took the nurse to a remote community can’t take surveyors out to do their work of course...  that’s the nurse’s pilot.  At least for 3 weeks anyway... 

Kimmy, your strategy gets unworkable really quickly.  If it was a realistic solution, brighter minds than your’s (the pandemic experts) would have thought of it.

  Your pandemic strategy boils down to wishful thinking. 

Quote
This is financially ruinous for huge numbers of people. And the stuff that is being most affected by coronavirus and the shutdown is stuff that young people rely on for employment. More than anybody else, young people are affected by the shutdown of retail, restaurants, hospitality, tourism. Pension money and old age security will keep on coming for the boomers and their elderly parents, but paychecks are stopping for an awful lot of young people. When do colleges and universities reopen? How do people finish their degrees in the social distancing era?

While we shut down everything so that septuagenarians get the chance to become octogenarians, young people are being **** over once again.

I guess killing off the old people would work, if you completely ignore the fact that so many sick people would overwhelm the medical system and cause a much higher death rate than otherwise., while also ignoring what millions of people getting sick at the same time would do to the economy anyway.

Again, this is wishful thinking that if we let the old farts die, anyone under 45 would be just fine.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on April 14, 2020, 06:18:00 pm
This is why Conservatives should never be anywhere near power.  Ever.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 14, 2020, 06:21:55 pm
I'm with squiggy on this one.

Kimmy you've gone Republican.  We're all stuck inside until everyone gets vaccinated.  Any talk of easing restrictions makes no sense.  It's just going to flare up again.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on April 14, 2020, 06:23:52 pm
I'm with squiggy on this one.

Kimmy you've gone Republican.  We're all stuck inside until everyone gets vaccinated.  Any talk of easing restrictions makes no sense.  It's just going to flare up again.

I think we can probably open a few select things up, but yeah...
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 14, 2020, 06:36:10 pm
This is why Conservatives should never be anywhere near power.  Ever.

It's really hard to argue with that. 

I think this crisis has really exposed the flaws of conservative and progressive thinking, costing lives.  For some reason a lot of conservatives are just ignorant as hell, and people die.  And a lot of progressives are afraid of offending anyone, and people die.  Meanwhile the competent moderates who aren't super ideological are too smart to get involved in politics in this viscous social media environment, so they just remain managers at whatever business they work at.  So we're all effed.

Look at the US.  Moderates are an endangered species in the Democratic party.  Biden was one of the few left running for POTUS, so Americans have to nominate a senile dinosaur.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 14, 2020, 06:41:37 pm
It's really hard to argue with that. 

I think this crisis has really exposed the flaws of conservative and progressive thinking, costing lives.  For some reason a lot of conservatives are just ignorant as hell, and people die.  And a lot of progressives are afraid of offending anyone, and people die.  Meanwhile the competent moderates who aren't super ideological are too smart to get involved in politics in this viscous social media environment, so they just remain managers at whatever business they work at.  So we're all effed.

Look at the US.  Moderates are an endangered species in the Democratic party.  Biden was one of the few left running for POTUS, so Americans have to nominate a senile dinosaur.

I mostly agree with you...  PC culture up here can cost lives, and may have done so, with this pandemic.  Except your assertions about the ďextreme leftĒ Democrats is off-base.  Their ďextreme leftĒ is actually pretty moderate compared to up here. 
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2020, 06:43:50 pm
It's really hard to argue with that. 

I think this crisis has really exposed the flaws of conservative and progressive thinking, costing lives.  For some reason a lot of conservatives are just ignorant as hell, and people die.  And a lot of progressives are afraid of offending anyone, and people die.  Meanwhile the competent moderates who aren't super ideological are too smart to get involved in politics in this viscous social media environment, so they just remain managers at whatever business they work at.  So we're all effed.

Look at the US.  Moderates are an endangered species in the Democratic party.  Biden was one of the few left running for POTUS, so Americans have to nominate a senile dinosaur.

They already did that in Nov. 2016. donald Duck would be better than Donald Trump so Biden will be a blessing, especially if he picks the right running mate. Klobuchar I'm kinda rooting for.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 14, 2020, 07:51:44 pm
I mostly agree with you...  PC culture up here can cost lives, and may have done so, with this pandemic.  Except your assertions about the ďextreme leftĒ Democrats is off-base.  Their ďextreme leftĒ is actually pretty moderate compared to up here.

That's true, at least among their politicians.  Private citizens I think have similar extremes, though they seem to have more rightwing nutters down there, but we have our share.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 14, 2020, 10:57:14 pm
I'm with squiggy on this one.

Kimmy you've gone Republican.  We're all stuck inside until everyone gets vaccinated.  Any talk of easing restrictions makes no sense.  It's just going to flare up again.

There isn't going to be a vaccine for a year to 18 months, at the earliest.   Do you really think it's realistic to just maintain a ban on gatherings of over 10 people until 2022? Dr Fauci says 18 months hopefully.  What if instead of 2022, it's 2023 or 2024... still want to keep everything locked down? Still want to wait for the vaccine?

I always hear people ask something like "how would you feel if you have to tell your grandfather that he might get sick and die from this?"   I have yet to hear anybody ask anything like "how would you feel if you have to be the one who has to tell your granddaughter that she won't be able to go back to college until 2022?" 

I know that somebody is going to say "well the virus attacks young people too you know!"  but the death rate is minuscule for young people-- a fraction of a percent-- and most young people don't even need hospitalization. (my own speculation: the data for young people is probably inflated because only the very sickest will even be tested, most will feel like they had a bad cold and never know.) It's only when you get into the seniors age group that the  becomes significant.  For young people, the rate is negligible-- literally one in a million hospitalization rate for people under 18 (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e3.htm) according to the US CDC. Under 60, the rate is still very small. Only once you get into the pensioners and retirees do you find significant rates of hospitalization. I know that everybody is pushing very hard to point out that sometimes young people become very sick and even die from this. But the numbers say that by far the vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths from this will be boomers and their parents.

So while everybody is saying "we're all in this together!" the reality is that we are asking young people to put their lives on hold for the benefit of our society's older (and wealthier) members. 

Young people will never be repaid-- or even acknowledged-- for the sacrifices they are making to keep old-people safe during this disaster. 

Our government is taking steps to make sure that land-owners and stock-holders and big businesses aren't annihilated by the economic fallout from this pandemic. For everybody else it's going to be hit and miss. For my acquaintance that opened Kim City's first LGBT bar about a month before the lockdown, it's probably going to be a "miss". It was a nice 4 weeks for him, but it's probably never going to open again.  For my special girl, who depends on commissions (from her day job) and tips (from her night job) to make ends meet, it's probably going to be a "miss". We don't talk about money issues, but I don't need to ask to know that she is going to be completely **** over in terms of how much the government provides her versus how much she would earn normally. I don't need to ask to know that she is going to be depending on her parents for financial assistance for the duration of this shitstorm, and I don't need to ask to know how badly that hurts her.

Our government has taken great action to prevent the collapse of real estate values and the stock market and of big businesses and pension plans and hedge funds and all of those other things. Which I commend them for. But people will fall through the cracks, and disproportionately those will be young people. Industries will be crushed for years to come, and disproportionately those are industries that employ young people-- retail, restaurants, hospitality, tourism.  While some young-people will cash in working as Skip The Dishes drivers at an equivalent pay rate of about $3 per hour, most are going to be left broken by an economy worse than we have seen since the 1930s.  While the boomers and their stock portfolios and their real estate assets are protected by the government, young people are going to be left at the curb.

The boomers will go back to their stock portfolios and pensions, and go back to golfing with their buddies. Young people will have nothing except the knowledge that they did something good for their society.  Once upon a time I had a job in customer service, where I was told that good customer services is "like wetting yourself wearing dark pants: you get a warm feeling but nobody else notices."  That is going to be the reward young people get for their sacrifices they make during this crisis.

Everybody is saying "we're all in this together!" the reality is that we are asking young people to put their lives on hold for the benefit of our society's older (and wealthier) members. 

And what is especially galling to me is that most of the boomers and their parents are too ignorant and self-centered to know or care what others are giving up to preserve their safety.  They'll be bitching that their weekly bridge games have been put on hold, and that the golf club is limiting how many groups can be out on the course at one time, and that the "golden years" hours at the grocery store hours are so inconvenient.   And they will spend not a moment thinking about the young people who have put their education on hold and sacrificed their livelihoods for the sake of the greater good.

So forgive me for not feeling super charitable toward the "old farts" right now.


 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 14, 2020, 11:14:46 pm
There isn't going to be a vaccine for a year to 18 months, at the earliest.   Do you really think it's realistic to just maintain a ban on gatherings of over 10 people until 2022? Dr Fauci says 18 months hopefully.  What if instead of 2022, it's 2023 or 2024... still want to keep everything locked down? Still want to wait for the vaccine?

I always hear people ask something like "how would you feel if you have to tell your grandfather that he might get sick and die from this?"   I have yet to hear anybody ask anything like "how would you feel if you have to be the one who has to tell your granddaughter that she won't be able to go back to college until 2022?" 
...
So while everybody is saying "we're all in this together!" the reality is that we are asking young people to put their lives on hold for the benefit of our society's older (and wealthier) members. 

Young people will never be repaid-- or even acknowledged-- for the sacrifices they are making to keep old-people safe during this disaster.

Nobody wants businesses to close or lives on hold.  The reality is that we have to choose between seniors and those with underlying conditions dying VS college kids having their schooling delayed and some businesses closing etc.  That choice is really easy for me.  Somebody's small business isn't worth thousands of lives.  People getting 2 or 5 or 10 more years being alive is kind of a big deal.  You want me to choose between the lives of my parents and your friend's bar business?  Are you mad?

This isn't just young people's lives on hold, this is everyone.  Yours and mine and everyone.  Some will lose in this more than others, thems the breaks, they will live to play another day.  The ones who will lose most will lose their lives and/or loved ones.  Everyone should just be grateful they aren't dead after this.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 14, 2020, 11:20:20 pm
The government is doing everything possible to make sure that the boomers' overpriced real estate assets remain overpriced, and everything possible to make sure that the boomers' overpriced stock assets remain overpriced, and nothing to compensate young people for the years of lost earnings they're going to suffer from this catastrophe. So tell me how the **** this is fair.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 14, 2020, 11:31:04 pm
The government is doing everything possible to make sure that the boomers' overpriced real estate assets remain overpriced, and everything possible to make sure that the boomers' overpriced stock assets remain overpriced, and nothing to compensate young people for the years of lost earnings they're going to suffer from this catastrophe. So tell me how the **** this is fair.

 -k

They can apply for the CERB, EI, or business wage subsidy etc like everyone else.  Their wages may not be entirely paid back, but real estate prices are dropping as are stocks.  This isn't age warfare, most people are losing here.

For the CERB you get up to $2000 back a month.  What if a 55 year old is normally making $4000 a month and a millennial is making $2500.  Is that "fair"?

Your priorities are all effed up.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 14, 2020, 11:31:50 pm
Everyone should just be grateful they aren't dead after this.

The fact of the matter is that nobody under 65 has any reason to be worried about being dead from this.

I already mentioned that my 55 year old coworker who tested positive for COVID-19 only even got tested because he was in hospital because of a heart attack, right? He had a heart attack, and heart surgery, and recovered, WHILE HE HAD COVID-19.  I already mentioned that I think I already had this virus that the guy in the next cubicle had. The guy I talked to every day and had coffee with every day. I thought it was a bad cold. Me, at 36 years old, with exertional asthma and allergic athsma and a congenital defect that caused my lungs to have narrow air pathways. I'll never know for sure that I got COVID-19 from the guy who I saw and talked to every single day, because me-- with the weakest lungs on the planet-- wasn't even sick enough to get tested to know for sure.

People have gotten a distorted notion of how dangerous this virus actually is.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 14, 2020, 11:37:04 pm
I ask again: how long are people willing to wait for a vaccine? 2022? 2023? 2024?

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 14, 2020, 11:38:11 pm
I don't know that a vaccine is the only solution, there will also be more effective treatments for the disease itself as they learn more about it. There is no vaccine for HIV but it went from a death sentence to a manageable disease.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 14, 2020, 11:38:27 pm
The fact of the matter is that nobody under 65 has any reason to be worried about being dead from this.

I already mentioned that my 55 year old coworker who tested positive for COVID-19 only even got tested because he was in hospital because of a heart attack, right? He had a heart attack, and heart surgery, and recovered, WHILE HE HAD COVID-19.  I already mentioned that I think I already had this virus that the guy in the next cubicle had. The guy I talked to every day and had coffee with every day. I thought it was a bad cold. Me, at 36 years old, with exertional asthma and allergic athsma and a congenital defect that caused my lungs to have narrow air pathways. I'll never know for sure that I got COVID-19 from the guy who I saw and talked to every single day, because me-- with the weakest lungs on the planet-- wasn't even sick enough to get tested to know for sure.

People have gotten a distorted notion of how dangerous this virus actually is.

 -k

Sounds like you're promoting trump's idiocy with that comment!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 14, 2020, 11:40:17 pm
I don't know that a vaccine is the only solution, there will also be more effective treatments for the disease itself as they learn more about it. There is no vaccine for HIV but it went from a death sentence to a manageable disease.

That's an extremely good point. I don't think Trudeau was correct in saying that "we can't go back to normal until there is a vaccine".

How did your grand-daughter feel about losing a semester of university?  How do you think she will feel if she can't go back to school until 2022?

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 14, 2020, 11:44:48 pm
Sounds like you're promoting trump's idiocy with that comment!

The numbers say that the hospitalization rate for people under 18 for COVID-19 is literally 1 in 1,000,000.

I would really like to see a statistical breakdown of Canadian statistics for what COVID-19 looks like when statistics for long-term care facilities for senior citizens are broken out from statistics for the general population at large.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 14, 2020, 11:48:09 pm
According to the CDC, for the week ending April 11, 22% of Covid 19 related deaths were people under 65. Granted, most of them were between 55 and 64 but 10% were still under 54.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 14, 2020, 11:55:37 pm
According to the CDC, for the week ending April 11, 22% of Covid 19 related deaths were people under 65. Granted, most of them were between 55 and 64 but 10% were still under 54.

And how many was that, exactly?

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 14, 2020, 11:58:55 pm
That's an extremely good point. I don't think Trudeau was correct in saying that "we can't go back to normal until there is a vaccine".

How did your grand-daughter feel about losing a semester of university?  How do you think she will feel if she can't go back to school until 2022?

 -k

She hasn't lost a semester, she is doing finals now online. Her older brother is doing co-op with an engineering firm in kim city before starting his last year of school in September. They are concerned of course but there isn't much they can do about it.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 14, 2020, 11:59:55 pm
And how many was that, exactly?

 -k

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 15, 2020, 12:41:53 am
I mean, really nothing you're posting here is changing my view that young people aren't sacrificing their economic well being for the sake of the health of boomers and the elderly.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 15, 2020, 01:03:32 am
The government is doing everything possible to make sure that the boomers' overpriced real estate assets remain overpriced, and everything possible to make sure that the boomers' overpriced stock assets remain overpriced, and nothing to compensate young people for the years of lost earnings they're going to suffer from this catastrophe. So tell me how the **** this is fair.

If nobody is going to even try to convince me that the government's response isn't geared toward protecting the assets and savings of boomers, at least try and convince me that the government cares or even recognizes the financial opportunity lost to the young people because of this disaster. Come on. My faith in humanity depends on it.

Fuckers.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 15, 2020, 01:22:52 am
She hasn't lost a semester, she is doing finals now online. Her older brother is doing co-op with an engineering firm in kim city before starting his last year of school in September. They are concerned of course but there isn't much they can do about it.

I hope that when you shuffle off this mortal coil (hopefully not any time soon), you're leaving her something more than just a pickle dish or some needlepoint crap that your mom made.

I love you, wilber, but I'm not sure that you old fuckers fully appreciate what's being given up for you right now.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 15, 2020, 01:24:34 am
My faith in humanity depends on it.

the waldo suggests your understanding of humanity is woefully flawed/lacking!

for all your whining about impacting on your 'bar time', it's the olders that built the economy/country that allows you to be able to speak so callously toward them. Those assets/savings you're so clearly jealous towards, those were realized through decades, lifetimes even, of dedicated hard work building the society you clearly take for granted... that you speak of as nothing more than an entitlement you simply deserve.

before you sign up for a local death-panel, the waldo suggests diverting some of your pent-up 'bar energy' towards visiting/volunteering in care-homes... you know, once they're allowed to open again; perhaps you might gain some semblance of empathy toward the current plight of most care home residents who, typically, aren't the richyRiches you're so targeting.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 15, 2020, 01:50:37 am
the waldo suggests your understanding of humanity is woefully flawed/lacking!

for all your whining about impacting on your 'bar time', it's the olders that built the economy/country that allows you to be able to speak so callously toward them. Those assets/savings you're so clearly jealous towards, those were realized through decades, lifetimes even, of dedicated hard work building the society you clearly take for granted... that you speak of as nothing more than an entitlement you simply deserve.

before you sign up for a local death-panel, the waldo suggests diverting some of your pent-up 'bar energy' towards visiting/volunteering in care-homes... you know, once they're allowed to open again; perhaps you might gain some semblance of empathy toward the current plight of most care home residents who, typically, aren't the richyRiches you're so targeting.

Typical that dickheads would interpret my complaint as being that I can't go to the bar, as opposed to the fact that enormous numbers of young people are out of work.   I'm sure that an Asperger's syndrome shut-in like yourself wouldn't understand this, but enormous numbers of young people have been put out of work by this.

I'll continue working for my employer that builds and services equipment needed by emergency services and first responders.

Lindsey, the one who is doing dog-walking and grocery shopping for seniors, to earn **** PIN MONEY while she is out of work, is the one who is in contact with these seniors, and the one whose financial well-being is being most destroyed by this shitstorm, and while she's annoyingly optimistic and positive about all of this, I can't stand watching this dogshit go on.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 15, 2020, 09:35:43 am
the waldo suggests your understanding of humanity is woefully flawed/lacking!

for all your whining about impacting on your 'bar time', it's the olders that built the economy/country that allows you to be able to speak so callously toward them. Those assets/savings you're so clearly jealous towards, those were realized through decades, lifetimes even, of dedicated hard work building the society you clearly take for granted... that you speak of as nothing more than an entitlement you simply deserve.

before you sign up for a local death-panel, the waldo suggests diverting some of your pent-up 'bar energy' towards visiting/volunteering in care-homes... you know, once they're allowed to open again; perhaps you might gain some semblance of empathy toward the current plight of most care home residents who, typically, aren't the richyRiches you're so targeting.

Typical that dickheads would interpret my complaint as being that I can't go to the bar, as opposed to the fact that enormous numbers of young people are out of work.   I'm sure that an Asperger's syndrome shut-in like yourself wouldn't understand this, but enormous numbers of young people have been put out of work by this.

I'll continue working for my employer that builds and services equipment needed by emergency services and first responders.

oh the humanity! You own it now - you own the selfish, self-serving, callous and uncaring comments you've made. "Open the bars, let the olders eat cake"!

by the by, do you want an attagirl award for what you claim your company does?

Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: eyeball on April 15, 2020, 10:15:24 am
I ask again: how long are people willing to wait for a vaccine? 2022? 2023? 2024?

 -k
I'd be willing to wait as long as it takes if I can be assured that my quarantine/protection as a person of high-risk will be fully funded including my mortgage and health care. Legislation and a constitutional guarantee that protects me from the inevitable resentment people with jobs will have towards people who don't would be a nice touch too.

This wasn't my fault and I want compensation not a handout.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: eyeball on April 15, 2020, 10:27:26 am
If nobody is going to even try to convince me that the government's response isn't geared toward protecting the assets and savings of boomers, at least try and convince me that the government cares or even recognizes the financial opportunity lost to the young people because of this disaster. Come on. My faith in humanity depends on it.

Fuckers.l

 -k
I suspect there are plenty of politicians who don't give two shits about you kimmy.  If you only had a camera and a microphone in a room full of boomer politicians so you could actually catch them saying that you'd have something a lot better than faith to depend on.

Your future wellbeing has never depended more on forcing honest governance. Your current situation should tell you why.  Sneakiness got us into this mess but it'll never get us out.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 15, 2020, 10:31:12 am
I'd be willing to wait as long as it takes if I can be assured that my quarantine/protection as a person of high-risk will be fully funded including my mortgage and health care. Legislation and a constitutional guarantee that protects me from the inevitable resentment people with jobs will have towards people who don't would be a nice touch too.

This wasn't my fault and I want compensation not a handout.

It isn't anybody's fault... nobody on this side of the ocean, at least.

Compensation? That would be great if we could decide who's doing the compensating. It better be China... it better not be young Canadians. But for now your compensation is that society at large is making great sacrifices to protect you and other people at high risk.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on April 15, 2020, 10:39:25 am
It isn't anybody's fault... nobody on this side of the ocean, at least.

Compensation? That would be great if we could decide who's doing the compensating. It better be China... it better not be young Canadians. But for now your compensation is that society at large is making great sacrifices to protect you and other people at high risk.

 -k
I completely agree kimmy.  Thereís no reason that society canít open back up, while at the same time practice mitigation and some kinds of distancing.  You donít destroy the lives of millions of people to protect the lives of thousands.  High risk people should continue to quarantine, but the rest of us should be allowed to get back to work.  This over the top hysteria has to stop.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on April 15, 2020, 10:43:51 am
According to the CDC, for the week ending April 11, 22% of Covid 19 related deaths were people under 65. Granted, most of them were between 55 and 64 but 10% were still under 54.
And how many had underlying health issues?  Obesity, diabetes, COPD, etc? 
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 15, 2020, 10:52:48 am
I completely agree kimmy.  Thereís no reason that society canít open back up, while at the same time practice mitigation and some kinds of distancing.  You donít destroy the lives of millions of people to protect the lives of thousands.  High risk people should continue to quarantine, but the rest of us should be allowed to get back to work.  This over the top hysteria has to stop.

please provide your interpretation of what you're phrasing as "practice mitigation"  ;D
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 10:55:10 am
And how many had underlying health issues?  Obesity, diabetes, COPD, etc?

Why does it matter if they had underlying health conditions?  Donít people with asthma deserve the same protection as anyone else?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 10:57:40 am
I completely agree kimmy.  Thereís no reason that society canít open back up, while at the same time practice mitigation and some kinds of distancing.  You donít destroy the lives of millions of people to protect the lives of thousands.  High risk people should continue to quarantine, but the rest of us should be allowed to get back to work.  This over the top hysteria has to stop.

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

This is nothing but hoping for the best, but everyone who has 2 brain cells to rub together that this will cause huge amount of deaths and chaos in the medical system.  Anyone who advocates this is a complete Covidiot.

Luckily, we have actual experts who know what they are doing advising the government about such things.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on April 15, 2020, 10:59:05 am
Why does it matter if they had underlying health conditions?  Donít people with asthma deserve the same protection as anyone else?
It matters a lot.  Because that makes up almost the entirety of those that succumb to the virus.  Yes, as I said, anyone thatís high risk should remain in quarantine if they choose.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on April 15, 2020, 11:00:53 am
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

This is nothing but hoping for the best, but everyone who has 2 brain cells to rub together that this will cause huge amount of deaths and chaos in the medical system.  Anyone who advocates this is a complete Covidiot.

Luckily, we have actual experts who know what they are doing advising the government about such things.
Nope.  Society can open, but at the same time practice mitigation.  Masks, gloves, washing hands, using sanitizer, standing 6 feet apart, etc. Youíre the covidiot.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on April 15, 2020, 11:02:28 am
Letís destroy society over a virus that has a 0.6 fatality rate!  How about we just protect the most vulnerable instead?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 11:03:27 am
It matters a lot.  Because that makes up almost the entirety of those that succumb to the virus.  Yes, as I said, anyone thatís high risk should remain in quarantine if they choose.

#Covidiot

Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 11:04:14 am
Letís destroy society over a virus that has a 0.6 fatality rate!  How about we just protect the most vulnerable instead?

Itís sheer stupidity to think that anyone is ďdestroying societyĒ by saving lives and keeping people safe.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 11:05:50 am
Conservative thinking would kill thousands upon thousands of more people while still destroying the economy because people like this MP canít think beyond very simple concepts such as what Shady is bringing up.  ďWeíre destroying societyĒ!!!     ::)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on April 15, 2020, 11:06:31 am
#Covidiot
Keep ignoring science.  Name calling is easier.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on April 15, 2020, 11:08:36 am
Itís sheer stupidity to think that anyone is ďdestroying societyĒ by saving lives and keeping people safe.
Yes ďkeeping people safeĒ by destroying their livelihoods.  Instead of just protecting the most vulnerable.  Totally makes sense.  Not to mention this type of lockdown leads to depression, anxiety, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, poverty, domestic violence, and suicide. 
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on April 15, 2020, 11:10:06 am
Conservative thinking would kill thousands upon thousands of more people while still destroying the economy because people like this MP canít think beyond very simple concepts such as what Shady is bringing up.  ďWeíre destroying societyĒ!!!     ::)
Youíre still not understanding.  High risk people can still remain in quarantine.  The rest of society can practice mitigation.  Nobody is saying go on as things were before.  Stop acting obtuse.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 11:12:25 am
Keep ignoring science.  Name calling is easier.

You have no scientific background in this, nor do you understand what the experts have been saying.   You listen to right-wing talking points and regurgitate them.  Any science talk from you is hilarious.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 11:13:28 am
Yes ďkeeping people safeĒ by destroying their livelihoods.  Instead of just protecting the most vulnerable.  Totally makes sense.  Not to mention this type of lockdown leads to depression, anxiety, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, poverty, domestic violence, and suicide.

You canít protect the most vulnerable by ignoring social distancing.  It just doesnít work.  This is pure right wing talking point fantasy.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on April 15, 2020, 11:14:26 am
You canít protect the most vulnerable by ignoring social distancing.  It just doesnít work.  This is pure right wing talking point fantasy.
I didnít say ignore social distancing.  Canít you read?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 11:15:08 am
Youíre still not understanding.  High risk people can still remain in quarantine.  The rest of society can practice mitigation.  Nobody is saying go on as things were before.  Stop acting obtuse.

This is completely meaningless.   Please cite where experts have explained your whacky ďmitigationĒ and how it will work.

I ask that, but I know nothing will be forthcoming because itís completely idiotic and you pulled it out of your own rear end.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 11:16:15 am
I didnít say ignore social distancing.  Canít you read?

If you work in a busy office, you wonít be practicing social distancing.  ::)   


More Shady fantasy medical advice on how to beat this pandemic.  #covidiot
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 11:17:10 am
Shady is banned from this topic for regurgitating the same nonsense over and over.

Back to the topic of this MP/conservatives and their response to the pandemic.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 11:44:38 am
MP Dalton has commented, but avoided the question of his post and why he deleted it.

Quote
ďMy thoughts and prayers are with the hundreds of Canadians who have lost loved ones because of COVID-19,Ē he said. ďI personally have an uncle in a care home who I love dearly who has contracted coronavirus.Ē

Dalton did not explain why he decided to delete the tweet.

ďI remain focused on how best to get Canada through this crisis and ensure the health and safety of all Canadians,Ē he said.

ďThe Prime Minister has said that we need to prepare for a second and, perhaps, a third wave,Ē he added. ďOur local residents want to know how the government is preparing to get ahead of those waves to keep Canadians healthy and get our economy back on track.Ē
https://www.mapleridgenews.com/news/mp-marc-dalton-deletes-tweet-about-canadians-returning-to-work-if-most-covid-19-deaths-are-in-care-homes/



Glad to see his ďthoughts and prayersĒ are with people....   but there are proven methods to fight the pandemic and ďthoughts and prayersĒ are not an effective way to do so.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: eyeball on April 15, 2020, 12:17:46 pm
It isn't anybody's fault... nobody on this side of the ocean, at least.


 -k
I don't know, we have sorta been sitting here like a flock of fat and stupid sitting ducks. Who's fault is that?  I could probably start 150 threads on that question...it would probably require it's own forum maybe eventually a whole new internet to encompass the civil war it would generate.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 12:49:14 pm
I don't know, we have sorta been sitting here like a flock of fat and stupid sitting ducks. Who's fault is that?  I could probably start 150 threads on that question...it would probably require it's own forum maybe eventually a whole new internet to encompass the civil war it would generate.

Maybe Iím just not understanding what you mean by ďstupid sitting ducksĒ.

If youíve just been sitting there uninformed about the virus, then you clearly havenít been paying attention.  The measures are quite clear and the response to this has been all-encompassing.  In fact, people like Kimmy complain about how the measures have been too harsh.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: BC_cheque on April 15, 2020, 05:07:24 pm
The boomers will go back to their stock portfolios and pensions, and go back to golfing with their buddies. Young people will have nothing except the knowledge that they did something good for their society. 

This could not be less true.  Boomers have lost their RRIF's and unlike millenials, they don't have the rest of their lives to get over the financial hurdles.

While the government is providing CERB for the working population, the only thing they've offered for seniors is to eliminate the mandatory minimum RRIF withdrawals.

There is no help for them because they didn't have income to begin with and if you think OAS and CPP amount to anything, you're mistaken.  My parents get ~$1200 for OAS/CPP (for both of them) per month.

They relied on their RRIF which just shrank by one year's worth of withdrawals.

And on top of it, we have people like you and OP, who say their lives aren't really that important because you want to go to the bar.  Seriously WTF.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 06:03:38 pm
This could not be less true.  Boomers have lost their RRIF's and unlike millenials, they don't have the rest of their lives to get over the financial hurdles.

While the government is providing CERB for the working population, the only thing they've offered for seniors is to eliminate the mandatory minimum RRIF withdrawals.

There is no help for them because they didn't have income to begin with and if you think OAS and CPP amount to anything, you're mistaken.  My parents get ~$1200 for OAS/CPP (for both of them) per month.

They relied on their RRIF which just shrank by one year's worth of withdrawals.

And on top of it, we have people like you and OP, who say their lives aren't really that important because you want to go to the bar.  Seriously WTF.

Apparently, theyíve lived a good life where everything was handed to them and now itís time for them to die so that  young people donít need to sacrifice their lifestyle for a few weeks/months while the pandemic plays itself out.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: eyeball on April 15, 2020, 06:54:31 pm
Maybe Iím just not understanding what you mean by ďstupid sitting ducksĒ.

We left our society open to this danger by trucking and trading with the most dangerous dictatorship on the planet and swallowing hook line and sinker the notion we had no choice.

Quote
If youíve just been sitting there uninformed about the virus, then you clearly havenít been paying attention.  The measures are quite clear and the response to this has been all-encompassing.  In fact, people like Kimmy complain about how the measures have been too harsh.
I was paying attention to the danger China represents years and years ago and I strongly suspect people like kimmy and you would complain bitterly about the measures I'd have taken to protect us from that threat.  Like no truck nor trade with them. Zero. Until such time as China cleans up its act.

Look, it's really simply what happened here. A politician in China by the name of Xi Jinping who was afraid of criticism and had the capacity to act according to his interests did just that and people died. Then he went about casting blame on others.  Pretty much the same thing happened here where politicians with their own interests guiding them them left us unprepared.

Our response to this in Canada has been very encompassing and I'm grateful for it and I hope we keep it up.  It'll be interesting to see if we can keep it up well beyond this by taking some very serious action against China's dictatorship and the danger it presents.  I think to do that however we're going to have to take some serious action against the way we govern ourselves and I'm pretty sure that means eliminating the capacity politicians have for putting their politics first. By blowing the doors off all the back rooms they sneak around in.

Maybe Chinese people will take a clue.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 15, 2020, 07:27:50 pm
We left our society open to this danger by trucking and trading with the most dangerous dictatorship on the planet and swallowing hook line and sinker the notion we had no choice.
I was paying attention to the danger China represents years and years ago and I strongly suspect people like kimmy and you would complain bitterly about the measures I'd have taken to protect us from that threat.  Like no truck nor trade with them. Zero. Until such time as China cleans up its act.

Look, it's really simply what happened here. A politician in China by the name of Xi Jinping who was afraid of criticism and had the capacity to act according to his interests did just that and people died. Then he went about casting blame on others.  Pretty much the same thing happened here where politicians with their own interests guiding them them left us unprepared.

Our response to this in Canada has been very encompassing and I'm grateful for it and I hope we keep it up.  It'll be interesting to see if we can keep it up well beyond this by taking some very serious action against China's dictatorship and the danger it presents.  I think to do that however we're going to have to take some serious action against the way we govern ourselves and I'm pretty sure that means eliminating the capacity politicians have for putting their politics first. By blowing the doors off all the back rooms they sneak around in.

Maybe Chinese people will take a clue.

China has been seen as a rising threat for decades.  Nobody did anything about it because it made people a lot of money, especially rich well-connected people.  Trump was elected in part because the elite establishment would not put a check on China like Trump has tried.  It takes a narcissist with more balls than are good for him to do something like that. 

We need to put China in check before they become even more powerful.  We need to force them into a box and not let them out until they clean up their act as you say.  We also need to be careful because a new regime could be even worse.  The economic pain in the short-term is worth the economic and security gains in the longterm.

At least we're on agreement on this.  Yes we need to clean up the corruption in our politics & remove the big money, that's why I'd want Bernie for POTUS.  He's a patriot, he'd take a bullet to do it.  The US and Canada have become their own worst enemies now, rotting from within, interesting times we live in.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on April 15, 2020, 07:40:00 pm
We left our society open to this danger by trucking and trading with the most dangerous dictatorship on the planet and swallowing hook line and sinker the notion we had no choice.
I was paying attention to the danger China represents years and years ago and I strongly suspect people like kimmy and you would complain bitterly about the measures I'd have taken to protect us from that threat.  Like no truck nor trade with them. Zero. Until such time as China cleans up its act.

Look, it's really simply what happened here. A politician in China by the name of Xi Jinping who was afraid of criticism and had the capacity to act according to his interests did just that and people died. Then he went about casting blame on others.  Pretty much the same thing happened here where politicians with their own interests guiding them them left us unprepared.

Our response to this in Canada has been very encompassing and I'm grateful for it and I hope we keep it up.  It'll be interesting to see if we can keep it up well beyond this by taking some very serious action against China's dictatorship and the danger it presents.  I think to do that however we're going to have to take some serious action against the way we govern ourselves and I'm pretty sure that means eliminating the capacity politicians have for putting their politics first. By blowing the doors off all the back rooms they sneak around in.

Maybe Chinese people will take a clue.


Here’s something from MLW that I posted a long time ago.  I still hold to it.

Quote
China

I have not bought anything from China for years. Buying shoes is difficult... but not impossible.

Toy recalls... melamine, lead... sweat-shops... Human rights.... all reasons I do this.

Walmart

I won't go there. Don't like their labour practices, their products or their shoppers.


I have no issues with Canada boycotting China.  I already do myself.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: MH on April 15, 2020, 08:18:16 pm
1. China has been seen as a rising threat for decades.  Nobody did anything about it because it made people a lot of money, especially rich well-connected people.  Trump was elected in part because the elite establishment would not put a check on China like Trump has tried.  It takes a narcissist with more balls than are good for him to do something like that. 

2. We need to put China in check before they become even more powerful.  We need to force them into a box and not let them out until they clean up their act as you say.  We also need to be careful because a new regime could be even worse.  The economic pain in the short-term is worth the economic and security gains in the longterm.

3. At least we're on agreement on this.  Yes we need to clean up the corruption in our politics & remove the big money, that's why I'd want Bernie for POTUS.  He's a patriot, he'd take a bullet to do it.  The US and Canada have become their own worst enemies now, rotting from within, interesting times we live in.

1. There's something to this, but the statement also stinks of zero-sum game.   Trump's ideas on trade are ill-informed: the states can't "stand up" to China and "win". 

2. Show me someone who has viable alternative. 

3. The US and Canada have vastly different amounts of 'big money' in politics. 
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 15, 2020, 08:51:50 pm
1. There's something to this, but the statement also stinks of zero-sum game.   Trump's ideas on trade are ill-informed: the states can't "stand up" to China and "win". 

2. Show me someone who has viable alternative. 

3. The US and Canada have vastly different amounts of 'big money' in politics.

1.  Terms of trade are negotiated.  NAFTA is negotiated and isn't simply a "free trade" agreement.  Negotiations are based on leverage.  If the US wants better terms of trade, they need to negotiate and use their economic leverage to get the best deal for America's interests.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 15, 2020, 09:01:25 pm
1.  Terms of trade are negotiated.  NAFTA is negotiated and isn't simply a "free trade" agreement.  Negotiations are based on leverage.  If the US wants better terms of trade, they need to negotiate and use their economic leverage to get the best deal for America's interests.

NAFTA has nothing to do with China. And yes it allows competition between favored nations but removes tariffs.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: eyeball on April 15, 2020, 09:49:01 pm

Hereís something from MLW that I posted a long time ago.  I still hold to it.


I have no issues with Canada boycotting China.  I already do myself.
Well, I'm sorry for saying what I said then and I'll probably catch some well deserved hell from Kimmy too.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Dia on April 15, 2020, 10:45:11 pm
I mean, really nothing you're posting here is changing my view that young people aren't sacrificing their economic well being for the sake of the health of boomers and the elderly.

 -k

Millions of people were out of work for years during the depression, and millions of those same people recovered financially, lived well, raised families, sent their kids to university. I myself was jobless and homeless st 50, unable to work for six months.  Four years later, I had a car, a townhouse, a decent (but not great) paying job.  Many people recover from financial devastation.  If you think your entire age cohort is forever screwed financially because some of them will be unemployed for a while, you are delusional. 

If you think Boomers are all sitting pretty on stock portfolios and vast real estate holdings, you are, again, delusional.   In 2017, the median income for people between 55 and 64 was just over $41,000.  For people 65+, it was $28,000.  Its true that I have this townhouse in a low-rent district of Metro Vancouver,  but I have nothing else and I suspect this crisis will wipe out any equity I've gained.  It looks like I'm destined to retire into poverty, which I think is preferable to dying during a pandemic. 

Your "sactifice" isn't saving Boomer riches, its saving our health care system and our front line medical staff.  An operational health care system is just as important for people who overdose on alcohol, get injured in a bar fight, a car accident, have a heart attack, appendicitis - or even for someone who just wants to give birth - as it is to an old fart who contracts covid.  If 10s of thousands of Canadians die or become unable to work, not just from Covid, but also because our health care system collapsed, do you think that's going to be good for the economy?

Yes, people are going to suffer, some more than others,  some will lose both job and loved ones.  If the worst is a few months or a couple of years of financial hardship - yeah it's tough - but there is no hardship worse than losing someone you love.   
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 16, 2020, 12:27:26 am
haven't yet found any like Canadian polling...

(https://i.imgur.com/jz0tWd6.png)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 16, 2020, 10:12:31 pm
haven't yet found any like Canadian polling...

(https://i.imgur.com/jz0tWd6.png)

I saw similar numbers for Canada yesterday in some CBC article.  For now, a large majority of Canadians favor a cautious, safety first approach.  I expect that as this drags on, peoples' patience will start to wear thin.

If we're in late summer and people start to understand that a vaccine is still a year away at the earliest, I don't think the idea that we have to wait for a vaccine to go back to our lives is going to be popular anymore.  Peoples' willingness to cooperate with social distancing measures depends on maintaining the goodwill of the general public, and that will be heavily strained as the toll of isolation wears people down.  If we reach September and kids can't go back to school, that's not going to help. If we reach December and people are stuck in their homes in the darkest days of winter with nowhere to go, peoples' morale is going to hit rock bottom.  I strongly suspect that the mantra that "we can't go back to normal until there's a vaccine" is not going to last for more than a few months longer.


 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 16, 2020, 11:00:32 pm
And on top of it, we have people like you and OP, who say their lives aren't really that important because you want to go to the bar.  Seriously WTF.

I hope that made you feel better. Enjoy the warm fuzzy indignation, go post about it in Michael's"GRRRR!  Outrage Culture!" topic. "GRRR! I'm outraged that SOME PEOPLE want old-people to die so that they can go back to watching sportsball at the bar!"

I've gotten that several times in this thread, and I've seen it elsewhere as well, directed at people who question whether banning social gatherings and human interaction and many kinds of commerce and business for the foreseeable future is worth the cost. 

People think it's hilarious that "Karen" is mad that she can't get her hair done, but probably haven't considered that "Karen's" hairdresser is at home wondering how she's going to feed her family on the government assistance she receives.

While yourself and the waldo and various other smart-alecs around the internet have decided that "the cost" is that people can't go to the bar or get their hair done, it's a lot higher than that.

Leaving aside the people whose livelihoods have been lost and businesses that are shuttered and might never reopen, there's also the human cost. Seniors can't see their friends for their weekly bridge game or coffee and gripe sessions. Peewee hockey players might be old enough to vote by the time youth sports is able to resume. Weekly religious services are important to many people, but they're closed now. An endless variety of cultural and entertainment and recreational events are shut down-- everything from concerts and theatre to continuing education classes to movies and sports. Health and fitness facilities, gyms, yoga classes.  How do you have a wedding during this?  How do people date now?    What about school?  What about college?

You guys seem to think an ongoing ban on gatherings over 10 people is trivial or funny. But in dismissing this as a few people being mad that they can't go out and get drunk is incredibly dismissive to an incredibly wide variety of human activities.  Peoples' mental health is suffering, marriages are being strained, domestic violence and alcoholism and suicide will all be on the rise. The effects of isolation are going to cost peoples' lives too, you can take that to the bank.  Don't be so cavalier about dismissing the impact this is having on people.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 16, 2020, 11:25:46 pm
I hope that made you feel better. Enjoy the warm fuzzy indignation, go post about it in Michael's"GRRRR!  Outrage Culture!" topic. "GRRR! I'm outraged that SOME PEOPLE want old-people to die so that they can go back to watching sportsball at the bar!"

I've gotten that several times in this thread, and I've seen it elsewhere as well, directed at people who question whether banning social gatherings and human interaction and many kinds of commerce and business for the foreseeable future is worth the cost. 

People think it's hilarious that "Karen" is mad that she can't get her hair done, but probably haven't considered that "Karen's" hairdresser is at home wondering how she's going to feed her family on the government assistance she receives.

While yourself and the waldo and various other smart-alecs around the internet have decided that "the cost" is that people can't go to the bar or get their hair done, it's a lot higher than that.

Leaving aside the people whose livelihoods have been lost and businesses that are shuttered and might never reopen, there's also the human cost. Seniors can't see their friends for their weekly bridge game or coffee and gripe sessions. Peewee hockey players might be old enough to vote by the time youth sports is able to resume. Weekly religious services are important to many people, but they're closed now. An endless variety of cultural and entertainment and recreational events are shut down-- everything from concerts and theatre to continuing education classes to movies and sports. Health and fitness facilities, gyms, yoga classes.  How do you have a wedding during this?  How do people date now?    What about school?  What about college?

You guys seem to think an ongoing ban on gatherings over 10 people is trivial or funny. But in dismissing this as a few people being mad that they can't go out and get drunk is incredibly dismissive to an incredibly wide variety of human activities.  Peoples' mental health is suffering, marriages are being strained, domestic violence and alcoholism and suicide will all be on the rise. The effects of isolation are going to cost peoples' lives too, you can take that to the bank.  Don't be so cavalier about dismissing the impact this is having on people.

 -k

I hear a lot of similarities to the donald trump approach here. If guys are beating their wives because they are having to stay at home then there was likely an under lying problem to begin with.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 16, 2020, 11:43:03 pm
While the government is providing CERB for the working population, the only thing they've offered for seniors is to eliminate the mandatory minimum RRIF withdrawals.

There is no help for them because they didn't have income to begin with and if you think OAS and CPP amount to anything, you're mistaken.  My parents get ~$1200 for OAS/CPP (for both of them) per month.

They relied on their RRIF which just shrank by one year's worth of withdrawals.

Many or most boomers have employee pension plans to rely on, in addition to their savings.  Employee pension plans are of course a thing of the past now, except for government workers.

Everybody's retirement savings just took a big hit, but things are already rising again thanks to government action.

The government is providing much-needed help, for people who qualify, but isn't going to make up for what people are losing. Especially people who rely on tips, and people who rely on commissions, and freelancers, and self-employed people, and people who own businesses that are shuttered.


This could not be less true.  Boomers have lost their RRIF's and unlike millenials, they don't have the rest of their lives to get over the financial hurdles.


Just add the 2020 depression to the ongoing list of hurdles that Millennials "have the rest of their lives toget over".

 -years of their career lost to the 2020 depression
 -years of their career lost due to the 2008 recession
 -years paying off student loans due to skyrocketing tuition fees
 -decreased capacity for savings due to increasing share of stagnant salaries being consumed by skyrocketing rents and real estate prices
 -increased requirement for retirement savings due to disappearance of employee pension plans.

For the Boomers the retirement goal was "Freedom 55"... for Millennials the retirement reality is Tombstone 85: you might get to stop working when you're dead.  Throwing in an economic collapse or global pandemic every 10 years or so isn't going to help.



 -k

Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: BC_cheque on April 17, 2020, 12:32:00 am
You know Kimmy, I'm not going to change the goal posts about your generation being the one to be so hard done by.  I really tried to read your post with a straight face, but I can't take it seriously and I'm not getting baited into that discussion. 

My response to you earlier wasn't about boomer vs. millenial, it was variations of this:

If nobody is going to even try to convince me that the government's response isn't geared toward protecting the assets and savings of boomers, at least try and convince me that the government cares or even recognizes the financial opportunity lost to the young people because of this disaster. Come on. My faith in humanity depends on it.

Fuckers.

 -k

I broke it down to you about how boomers are not being coddled by the government.  In fact, they've been least supported by the government than any other group.

Here is the site:

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/economic-response-plan.html






Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 17, 2020, 12:36:09 am
Millions of people were out of work for years during the depression, and millions of those same people recovered financially, lived well, raised families, sent their kids to university. I myself was jobless and homeless st 50, unable to work for six months.  Four years later, I had a car, a townhouse, a decent (but not great) paying job.  Many people recover from financial devastation.  If you think your entire age cohort is forever screwed financially because some of them will be unemployed for a while, you are delusional. 

So first off it's not my age cohort. At 36 I'm either the oldest of Millennials or the youngest of Gen-X, I'm not sure which. I'm securely employed, I own a home that should be paid for before too much longer, and I'm doing okay. This isn't about me.  I'm not talking about myself when I say "young people". I'm much more concerned about people in their 20s. Imagine coming out of college into the worst economy we've seen in 80 years, and even jobs that young people used to be able to fall back on-- restaurants, retail, hospitality, tourism-- aren't even there because those industries are going to be ruined for years to come.  I was able to survive the 2008 recession by waitressing.  I don't know what I'd do in 2020. 


Your "sactifice" isn't saving Boomer riches,

What I said was actually that young people are sacrificing their economic well being for the sake of the health of the boomers and the elderly.

Government action is what I said is aimed at protecting the the assets of the well-off.  I'm fairly happy that real estate values aren't going to collapse, but that's mostly because I'm a home owner. (And I'm planning on hanging on to this property for a very long time, so I'm not too stressed about what the market price does for the next several years anyway.)  I'm fairly happy that the stock market hasn't collapsed, but that's because I have a lot of money sunk into RRSPs.

For somebody coming out of college with no assets, no job, no prospects of getting a job for a long time to come, I don't think I'd be very happy with what's being done.  If the best we can tell that new graduate is "well, you've got lots of years let to make up for this", that's pretty sad.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: BC_cheque on April 17, 2020, 12:40:37 am
Trudeau and Morneau are bailing out companies based on the flimsiest criteria for qualification.  They are providing relief for anyone out of work in a way that self-employed and part-time workers can  get assistance.

I will pick apart their COVID policies because there is a lot to be picked apart, but I don't see how anyone with a good conscious could think that the benefits are going to the boomers when it seems like their biggest interest is protecting the working class (read - not seniors).
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 17, 2020, 12:43:58 am
I broke it down to you about how boomers are not being coddled by the government.  In fact, they've been least supported by the government than any other group.


They're the wealthiest group of people in human history. They need the least support of any group.  Most have left the work force already and have no need for income support. They do so with considerable savings and assets, and in most cases pension plans.  You say the government has done less to support them than any other group, but the government efforts to maintain stability in the real estate market and the stock market seem like a major effort to protect the assets of the well-to-do in my opinion.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: BC_cheque on April 17, 2020, 12:52:09 am

They're the wealthiest group of people in human history. They need the least support of any group.  Most have left the work force already and have no need for income support. They do so with considerable savings and assets, and in most cases pension plans.  You say the government has done less to support them than any other group, but the government efforts to maintain stability in the real estate market and the stock market seem like a major effort to protect the assets of the well-to-do in my opinion.

 -k

Their income is based on their assets and those assets just lost a lot of value.  That means they lost years of income since their assets are where they are withdrawing their income from.

It's no different than your bar-owner friends who are being asked to sit idle for a time, except that seniors don't get $2k/month when losing their income and they may not have the time to wait it out.

In the beginning Trudeau said they will make sure seniors don't lose everything they worked hard to save all their lives -- nothing came of it. 

They're not being forced to sell their RRIF's at a devalued price (minimum withdrawals) and help with grocery deliveries.  That's it.

There is nothing for them. 

Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 17, 2020, 01:09:26 am
Preventing kimmy from going to the bar after work doesn't do anything to protect nursing home residents.
... at least try and convince me that the government cares or even recognizes the financial opportunity lost to the young people because of this disaster. Come on. My faith in humanity depends on it. Fuckers.
oh the humanity! You own it now - you own the selfish, self-serving, callous and uncaring comments you've made. "Open the bars, let the olders eat cake"!
While yourself and the waldo and various other smart-alecs around the internet have decided that "the cost" is that people can't go to the bar or get their hair done, it's a lot higher than that.

... there's also the human cost. Seniors can't see their friends for their weekly bridge game or coffee and gripe sessions.

good on ya! I thought you were heartless... but your expressed concern for senior bridge players can tally up against your rife enthusiasm for the cull! Oh, wait... that can't include bridge playing seniors in care homes, right... or are they just collateral damage to you?

you threw down a request to, "recognize the financial opportunity lost to the young people". Here's one for you:

=>member kimmy, what conditions/requirements, if any, do you believe should be in place... before restrictions/shutdowns are eliminated? I trust your response will give consideration to the reality of asymptomatic carriers of the virus... as well as the more recent raised concerns over "some number" of released recovered patients who retest as positive while showing no symptoms (again, asymptomatic carriers).

name your conditions/requirements member kimmy - name them!

Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: BC_cheque on April 17, 2020, 01:35:11 am
Peoples' mental health is suffering, marriages are being strained, domestic violence and alcoholism and suicide will all be on the rise. The effects of isolation are going to cost peoples' lives too, you can take that to the bank.  Don't be so cavalier about dismissing the impact this is having on people.

I would never dismiss or be cavalier about the mental health issues this is having because I'm living them.  I'm losing my ****.

No they're not financial troubles (yet) but I'm home with two kids who are also going nuts, and when they're gone I'm working my butt off to meet deadlines.  I'm the controller so I know that the company is not doing as well as management lets on and I wonder if we're going to survive the year. 

My house is never clean anymore and I've lost 30% of my net worth.  None of my clothes fit anymore because I was stress eating when lockdown first started and I'm drinking way more than I should.

I don't know how I'll ever get my kids to accept restricted screen time again, and I'm yelling at them way too much.  When I'm not, I'm crying to myself.

Everyone I know is going through some ****, this isn't easy for anyone of any age.

Then I think about the people living in fear in long term care centres.  Nothing you and I are feeling could compare to the fear they must be feeling.

I've cursed out a lot of things in this time, but letting the death rates to their thing just so I can get my sanity back isn't even a remote possibility.  We are all in this together.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 17, 2020, 06:36:05 am
Many or most boomers have employee pension plans to rely on, in addition to their savings.  Employee pension plans are of course a thing of the past now, except for government workers.

Everybody's retirement savings just took a big hit, but things are already rising again thanks to government action.

The government is providing much-needed help, for people who qualify, but isn't going to make up for what people are losing. Especially people who rely on tips, and people who rely on commissions, and freelancers, and self-employed people, and people who own businesses that are shuttered.

Boomers are a lucky generation.  Millennials, Gen X, and the parents of boomers (who fought WWII and went through the Great Depression) were less so.  So what?  Tough sh!t, it's the luck of the draw, that's life.  We can change structural policies to help millennials, but we have enough groups resenting each other right now i don't think we should add generational resentment to that.  Millenials are single-handedly destroying the fabric of our political and social culture with their ridiculous identity-politics BS, there's enough reason for everyone to resent them too.  But we shouldn't, every individual should be judged on their own merits.

The real estate market has dipped, as have mortgage rates, there will be a lot of smart millennials who still have jobs that will be be able to get into real estate now and make a lot on their home too.  They'll be alive after this is over and don't have to fight WWII.  Everyone's a victim of something, just deal yo.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 17, 2020, 08:35:21 am
member kimmy... an important phrase, from an important (prior?) member Shady, "Important Read" - so important I've had an epiphany and might... might be persuaded to come around to your expressed concerns; with your endorsement, I'm willing to press the case for urgent action towards children - the lil' phackers!

now, in a prior post above and several in the 'Outbreak' thread, I've railed on about asymptomatic carriers not receiving notice due! A relatively recent paper published in The Lancet's Infectious Diseases journal (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30236-X/fulltext) is an... Important Read: certainly, healthy children are at a low risk for dying from Covid-19 but this evidence is monumental in stating children can and are being infected as both symptomatic and asymptomatic transmitters of the virus:

Quote
The most important finding to come from the present analysis is the clear evidence that children are susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection, but frequently do not have notable disease, raising the possibility that children could be facilitators of viral transmission. If children are important in viral transmission and amplification, social and public health policies (eg, avoiding interaction with elderly people) could be established to slow transmission and protect vulnerable populations. There is an urgent need to for further investigation of the role children have in the chain of transmission.

member kimmy, the paper's statement on the need... urgent need for further investigation is just another time-wasting call by those sciencyFolk! In these pressing times, this evidence puts a whole different emphasis on the idiom, "think of the children, think of the children"! Something needs to be done now; right now!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 18, 2020, 10:59:55 am
(https://i.imgur.com/Vnr8q5k.jpg)


Trump calls protesters against stay-at-home orders 'very responsible' (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/17/trump-liberate-tweets-coronavirus-stay-at-home-orders) --- President tweeted that Minnesota, Michigan and Virginia should be Ďliberatedí after demonstrations against social distancing

Quote
At Fridayís White House coronavirus taskforce briefing, Trump played down fears that by crowding together, the protesters themselves could spread the Covid-19 illness. ďThese are people expressing their views,Ē he told reporters. ďI see where they are and I see the way theyíre working. They seem to be very responsible people to me, but theyíve been treated a little bit rough.Ē

In 2017 the president was condemned for reacting to a deadly clash between white nationalists and counter-protesters in Charlottesville, Virginia, by observing that there ďwere very fine people on both sidesĒ.

On Friday, Trump also stood by his criticism of the Democratic governors, even though they are following his own federal guidelines. ďI think some things are too tough,Ē he said. ďAnd if you look at some of the states you just mentioned, itís too tough, not only in reference to this but what theyíve done in Virginia with respect to the second amendment is just a horrible thing ... When you see what other states have done, I think I feel very comfortable.Ē
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 18, 2020, 12:43:27 pm
member kimmy... an important phrase, from an important (prior?) member Shady, "Important Read" - so important I've had an epiphany and might... might be persuaded to come around to your expressed concerns; with your endorsement, I'm willing to press the case for urgent action towards children - the lil' phackers!

now, in a prior post above and several in the 'Outbreak' thread, I've railed on about asymptomatic carriers not receiving notice due! A relatively recent paper published in The Lancet's Infectious Diseases journal (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30236-X/fulltext) is an... Important Read: certainly, healthy children are at a low risk for dying from Covid-19 but this evidence is monumental in stating children can and are being infected as both symptomatic and asymptomatic transmitters of the virus:

member kimmy, the paper's statement on the need... urgent need for further investigation is just another time-wasting call by those sciencyFolk! In these pressing times, this evidence puts a whole different emphasis on the idiom, "think of the children, think of the children"! Something needs to be done now; right now!

Children spread viruses?  Whoa, stop the presses! Thank goodness we have the Lancet to tell us that! 

Given that this is possibly the least surprising finding of this whole pandemic, what do you want us to do with this information?


 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: MH on April 18, 2020, 01:07:45 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/t8hkuCx.png)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2020, 01:18:53 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/t8hkuCx.png)

It is frightening how amazingly ignorant and arrogant some people can be in the face of such a serious issue as we now face. I guess they just didn't pass grade school science and I guess also the best outcome will be if they all get the virus and die from it. Or these crazy bastards blow their own heads off.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 18, 2020, 01:24:29 pm
Children spread viruses?  Whoa, stop the presses! Thank goodness we have the Lancet to tell us that! 

Given that this is possibly the least surprising finding of this whole pandemic, what do you want us to do with this information?

I relish this and like posts of your flummoxed-self where you mock/ignore/deflect, as you call it, sciency-looking evidence! Apparently, you believe all viruses act/respond the same - yowzer! That Lancet paper offers evidence to allow you to, with some degree of authority, speak of child infections of the SARS-CoV-2 virus; you know, that "healthy children are at a low risk for dying from Covid-19 but this evidence is monumental in stating children can and are being infected as both symptomatic and asymptomatic transmitters of the virus"

in your best Trumpian-like deflection, you're the one calling for an end to current restrictions... but somehow, for some reason, you haven't provided a "how to plan" to do so - you haven't responded to this waldo request/challenge:
=>member kimmy, what conditions/requirements, if any, do you believe should be in place... before restrictions/shutdowns are eliminated? I trust your response will give consideration to the reality of asymptomatic carriers of the virus... as well as the more recent raised concerns over "some number" of released recovered patients who retest as positive while showing no symptoms (again, asymptomatic carriers).

name your conditions/requirements member kimmy - name them!

member kimmy, I trust your "unknown/unidentified plan"... thinks of the children and their infection characteristics!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 18, 2020, 01:37:41 pm
It is frightening how amazingly ignorant and arrogant some people can be in the face of such a serious issue as we now face. I guess they just didn't pass grade school science and I guess also the best outcome will be if they all get the virus and die from it. Or these crazy bastards blow their own heads off.

this shouldn't be a problem, right? Of course it doesn't address those infected by said "protestors"... but, uhhh... freedom ain't free!

(https://i.imgur.com/cD8rVLA.jpg)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2020, 01:43:09 pm
this shouldn't be a problem, right? Of course it doesn't address those infected by said "protestors"... but, uhhh... freedom ain't free!

(https://i.imgur.com/cD8rVLA.jpg)

Can you please email a printable version of this to the White House IMMEDIATELY.

Thank you

Oh, and a copy over to departed memeber Shady over yonder. That we he can perhaps achieve "dearly departed" stature.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 18, 2020, 02:04:14 pm

=>member kimmy, what conditions/requirements, if any, do you believe should be in place... before restrictions/shutdowns are eliminated?

Before I get to conditions/requirements, I want to talk about what restrictions and shutdowns might be eliminated.

To me the most exasperating thing about the shutdowns are the one-size-fits-all nature of the shutdown.

It seems ridiculous to me that a venue that seats 20 people is treated the same as a venue that seats 2000 people or 20,000 people.  It seems ridiculous to me that a pottery class is treated the same as a gym or a yoga class.  I don't think a sit-down restaurant poses the same risks as a shopping mall food court. I don't think a neighborhood pub poses the same risks as a packed nightclub with a dance floor full of sweaty people.

(Personal note: I think it's ridiculous that Kim City is treating the kayak club the same as city swimming pools and city fitness centers. Are they afraid the ducks and fish will catch COVID? I don't get it.)

I'm also skeptical that the same measures are necessary in Saskatchewan as in Ontario.  And I'm skeptical that the same measures are necessary in Kenora Ontario as in downtown Toronto.



I trust your response will give consideration to the reality of asymptomatic carriers of the virus... as well as the more recent raised concerns over "some number" of released recovered patients who retest as positive while showing no symptoms (again, asymptomatic carriers).

name your conditions/requirements member kimmy - name them!

The BC government is now looking at ways of relaxing restrictions-- it's not just dumb-people and rednecks anymore. Dr Bonnie Henry says:
"I believe this summer, we will have the opportunity to have way more social opportunities Ö but we're not quite there yet. So I'm asking for patience."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid19-restrictions-bc-1.5535716

Here's the modelling they've developed:

(https://i.imgur.com/M1D2RDL.png)

They are projecting the anticipated rate of patients in critical care on the level of social interaction going on.  The graph shows that if we resume 100% or 80% of normal levels of social interaction, the number of cases goes through the roof.  On the other hand, lower levels of interaction-- 60% of less, results in a rate of cases that doesn't snowball and remains low enough for the healthcare system to manage quite easily, as it is doing right now.  They estimate our level of interaction is currently at the range of about 30%, so there's certainly room for some restrictions to be lifted.  And restrictions can be put back in place as required to deal with "rebound outbreaks" that they anticipate will occur.

To me, the conditions/requirements for easing of restriction are that our healthcare system be able to handle the number of critical cases.  That's it, that's my criterion.  I don't base it on the existence of a vaccine, or a 100% accurate test, or whatever. When those things do appear, they will considerably improve the level of risk mitigation we're able to do, but it is and always will be a matter of risk mitigation.  We won't be able to do 100% testing of the population, we won't be able to identify every asymptomatic carrier, we won't be able to guarantee nobody comes down with COVID in the future. But we can certainly keep things at a level where we can care for cases as they arise, as we do with other communicable diseases.

As we learn more about how this thing works, we will learn what kind of situations pose high risks of transmissions and what kind of situations can reopen without adding substantially to the level of risk. 


 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 18, 2020, 02:10:33 pm
good on ya! I thought you were heartless... but your expressed concern for senior bridge players can tally up against your rife enthusiasm for the cull! Oh, wait... that can't include bridge playing seniors in care homes, right... or are they just collateral damage to you?

They might not be able to play bridge with each other, or visit their family members face to face, for a long time.  I reject the idea that we can't lift restrictions on anything until it's safe for the oldest and frailest to play bridge with each other, if that's what you're proposing.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 18, 2020, 02:26:30 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/t8hkuCx.png)

Darwinism at play:  adapt or die.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2020, 02:30:23 pm
They might not be able to play bridge with each other, or visit their family members face to face, for a long time.  I reject the idea that we can't lift restrictions on anything until it's safe for the oldest and frailest to play bridge with each other, if that's what you're proposing.

 -k

Still no hard evidence that being young is some sort of protection. Let's let medical sciences suss out exactly what we are dealing with before we rush to judgement from a layman's POV.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 18, 2020, 02:31:20 pm
American radical libertarians:  all government bad because King George.

Canadian radical liberals:  people are dumb and can't help themselves, God save the Queen so she can save us with her money-nipple.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2020, 02:34:01 pm
Darwinism at play:  adapt or die.

Darwinism? OK off you go to the bar but you'll be living in the basement from now on OK?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 18, 2020, 02:38:47 pm
I relish this and like posts of your flummoxed-self where you mock/ignore/deflect, as you call it, sciency-looking evidence! Apparently, you believe all viruses act/respond the same - yowzer! That Lancet paper offers evidence to allow you to, with some degree of authority, speak of child infections of the SARS-CoV-2 virus; you know, that "healthy children are at a low risk for dying from Covid-19 but this evidence is monumental in stating children can and are being infected as both symptomatic and asymptomatic transmitters of the virus"

in your best Trumpian-like deflection, you're the one calling for an end to current restrictions... but somehow, for some reason, you haven't provided a "how to plan" to do so - you haven't responded to this waldo request/challenge:
member kimmy, I trust your "unknown/unidentified plan"... thinks of the children and their infection characteristics!

The impact of transmission through children is already built into the statistics regarding new cases and critical care cases, which are the main metric being used to track the spread of the virus. Your astounding revelation doesn't change anything. Dr Henry's charts and graphs from yesterday? The effects of children are already built into that data.

The Lancet report will probably be of interest to those deciding when and how to reopen schools and daycare operations and youth sports and other activities where children congregate in numbers, but I doubt anybody making those kinds of decisions was under the assumption that children wouldn't spread the viruses.  Schools in Taiwan and South Korea imposed social distancing measures on their students early on in their fight against the virus, so clearly people already anticipated that children would be carriers.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 18, 2020, 02:42:28 pm
Still no hard evidence that being young is some sort of protection.

There's actually a lot of evidence of that.

Let's let medical sciences suss out exactly what we are dealing with before we rush to judgement from a layman's POV.

BC's chief health officer is talking about opening things up this summer. She's not a layman.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2020, 02:47:56 pm
There's actually a lot of evidence of that.

BC's chief health officer is talking about opening things up this summer. She's not a layman.

 -k

You're right, she's not a layman which is why she is being very cautious.

 B.C. may consider starting to relax some restrictions put in to combat COVID-19, starting next month.

But the provinceís chief medical health officer has warned the lifting of those measures will be partial and gradual Ė and life in B.C. wonít go back to normal anytime soon.

https://www.nsnews.com/news/b-c-may-consider-lifting-some-restrictions-starting-in-may-1.24119838

So don't load up your gun and follow the idiots into the streets such as in the US.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 18, 2020, 03:06:20 pm
You're right, she's not a layman which is why she is being very cautious.

 B.C. may consider starting to relax some restrictions put in to combat COVID-19, starting next month.

But the provinceís chief medical health officer has warned the lifting of those measures will be partial and gradual Ė and life in B.C. wonít go back to normal anytime soon.

https://www.nsnews.com/news/b-c-may-consider-lifting-some-restrictions-starting-in-may-1.24119838

So don't load up your gun and follow the idiots into the streets such as in the US.

I posted that exact article an hour ago you hapless goof. Don't you read anything?

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2020, 03:09:18 pm
I posted that exact article an hour ago you hapless goof. Don't you read anything?

 -k

Your posts seem to indicate you missed the point of it.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 18, 2020, 03:16:47 pm
The point of it was that we will be able to open up many things in the near future, without a vaccine or massive testing, and without overwhelming the healthcare system with new cases. 

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2020, 03:45:51 pm
I posted that exact article an hour ago you hapless goof. Don't you read anything?

 -k

It will very likely be hapless goofs who will cause a more deadly second surge of Covid just as they did with the Spanish flu.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 18, 2020, 07:57:09 pm
Darwinism at play:  adapt or die.

So what are they going to do, go out with their guns and force people back to work and businesses to open? Morons.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 18, 2020, 08:45:01 pm
So what are they going to do, go out with their guns and force people back to work and businesses to open? Morons.

"Morons" is appropriate for sure although somewhat less scathing than required. I'm searching for the harsher word and I'll get back.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 18, 2020, 10:26:31 pm
So what are they going to do, go out with their guns and force people back to work and businesses to open? Morons.

I'm thinking they themselves don't want government to impose tyrannical laws on them forcing them to stay home.  I get why people don't want that, but they aren't thinking of the bigger picture, an international emergency with many lives at stake.  The lockdown is only being done to save lives.  The other choice is freedom but mass death.

Alexander Hamilton said:  "Why was government instituted at all?  Because the passions of men will not conform to the dictates or reason and justice without restraint".
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 18, 2020, 10:35:57 pm
I'm thinking they themselves don't want government to impose tyrannical laws on them forcing them to stay home.  I get why people don't want that, but they aren't thinking of the bigger picture, an international emergency with many lives at stake.  The lockdown is only being done to save lives.  The other choice is freedom but mass death.

Alexander Hamilton said:  "Why was government instituted at all?  Because the passions of men will not conform to the dictates or reason and justice without restraint".

To quote the Stones, "You can't always get what you want". Even with most of the country locked down, this thing has killed more Americans in a month than traffic accidents do in a year.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 19, 2020, 01:27:58 am
Do you really think it's realistic to just maintain a ban on gatherings of over 10 people until 2022?

clarification: the waldo stands to be corrected; however, my crack research team has found the original notice that banned gatherings of over 250 people... and the update notice that, given worsening circumstance, banned gatherings of over 50 people - however, the team says they haven't (yet) found the notice that reduces the gathering ban even further. In your want to get the bars/pubs back open, are you sure you're not confusing the reason they're closed; i.e., not an essential service versus a gathering ban count restriction?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 19, 2020, 01:41:50 am
clarification: the waldo stands to be corrected; however, my crack research team has found the original notice that banned gatherings of over 250 people... and the update notice that, given worsening circumstance, banned gatherings of over 50 people - however, the team says they haven't (yet) found the notice that reduces the gathering ban even further. In your want to get the bars/pubs back open, are you sure you're not confusing the reason they're closed; i.e., not an essential service versus a gathering ban count restriction?

I say let's go down the donald trump approach and open up everything, beaches, golf courses, skating rinks (for us Canadians), etc. That way the people who are dumb enough to ignore the threat will congregate, infect each other and sadly die. I guess that's sort of how that "survival of the fittest" thing works. C'mon Donny, lets have you and Pence tee off tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 19, 2020, 01:44:30 am
Before I get to conditions/requirements, I want to talk about what restrictions and shutdowns might be eliminated.

To me the most exasperating thing about the shutdowns are the one-size-fits-all nature of the shutdown.

It seems ridiculous to me that a venue that seats 20 people is treated the same as a venue that seats 2000 people or 20,000 people.  It seems ridiculous to me that a pottery class is treated the same as a gym or a yoga class.  I don't think a sit-down restaurant poses the same risks as a shopping mall food court. I don't think a neighborhood pub poses the same risks as a packed nightclub with a dance floor full of sweaty people.

the initial focus is on keeping essential services open - determining what are essential services. Obviously reducing restrictions in terms of venue size becomes one of 'economy of scale'. By the by, how viable will those smaller 20 people venues truly be if 2m physical distancing is maintained... notwithstanding how accepting thinking 'safety conscious/concerned' people will be to visiting in the first place... and what requirements will an establishment need to meet in terms of staff protections, sanitizing , etc..
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 19, 2020, 02:52:26 am
member kimmy, as an aside, I expect tied to your limited corporate world employment experience, you show your complete naivety in railing on about the relatively short job loss period to-date in relation to COVID-19 shutdowns... even extending that forward to say, 6 months to a year of unemployment. Those extended periods of lost job related unemployment are not that unusual in the work history of many of the boomers you so brazenly and repeatedly denigrate.


The BC government is now looking at ways of relaxing restrictions-- it's not just dumb-people and rednecks anymore. Dr Bonnie Henry says: "I believe this summer, we will have the opportunity to have way more social opportunities Ö but we're not quite there yet. So I'm asking for patience."

"this summer" ... is that June, July, August or what - 2+, 3+, 4+ months away or what? The point being, they can't {yet} say, let alone estimate. More to the point, per B.C. Health Minister Dix:

Quote
Dix said finding a balance where British Columbians could resume some activities while containing the virus would be a huge task for officials in the weeks ahead.

"We must find a healthy way forward for the next 12 to 18 months Ö a healthy new normal that sustains us and keeps us safe," he said. 

"We need to find a way forward that allows us to socialize. Whatever actions we take, we know there's a significant human cost if we get it wrong. The situation is complex, and it is without precedent in our lifetimes."


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid19-restrictions-bc-1.5535716

They are projecting the anticipated rate of patients in critical care on the level of social interaction going on.  The graph shows that if we resume 100% or 80% of normal levels of social interaction, the number of cases goes through the roof.  On the other hand, lower levels of interaction-- 60% of less, results in a rate of cases that doesn't snowball and remains low enough for the healthcare system to manage quite easily, as it is doing right now.  They estimate our level of interaction is currently at the range of about 30%, so there's certainly room for some restrictions to be lifted.  And restrictions can be put back in place as required to deal with "rebound outbreaks" that they anticipate will occur.

the waldo trusts the data and analysis is there; however, my crack research team hasn't found it... sure, sure, the Google COVID-19 Community Mobility Reports are readily available, but just how has the B.C. Health Authority used them to arrive at that current 30% level of interaction figure? Notwithstanding the most basic points that this Google "geolocation tracking" data presumes upon using Google Maps and requires people to have turned the normally off defaulted "Location History" setting on..... cause who has any concerns about privacy! So how does this possibly skew the data? Or that the reports are by generic type, rather than particular location specific (e.g. the broad/generic Retail and Recreation category). In any case, your described "room for some restrictions to be lifted" over the interaction range 30%-to-60% has no foundation without some degree of specificity in term of "room, restrictions & lifted by how much"!

example - April 5th snapshot of 'up to April 2nd' data => if nothing else, an interesting statement on Canada versus the U.S. and, in particular, where certain states and provinces slot within. As for British Columbia: 54% mobility reduction in the Retail & Recreation category... 47% mobility reduction in the Workplace category

(https://i.imgur.com/zTIlbu3.png)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 19, 2020, 03:04:39 am
I relish this and like posts of your flummoxed-self where you mock/ignore/deflect, as you call it, sciency-looking evidence! Apparently, you believe all viruses act/respond the same - yowzer! That Lancet paper offers evidence to allow you to, with some degree of authority, speak of child infections of the SARS-CoV-2 virus; you know, that "healthy children are at a low risk for dying from Covid-19 but this evidence is monumental in stating children can and are being infected as both symptomatic and asymptomatic transmitters of the virus"

in your best Trumpian-like deflection, you're the one calling for an end to current restrictions... but somehow, for some reason, you haven't provided a "how to plan" to do so - you haven't responded to this waldo request/challenge:
=>member kimmy, what conditions/requirements, if any, do you believe should be in place... before restrictions/shutdowns are eliminated? I trust your response will give consideration to the reality of asymptomatic carriers of the virus... as well as the more recent raised concerns over "some number" of released recovered patients who retest as positive while showing no symptoms (again, asymptomatic carriers).

name your conditions/requirements member kimmy - name them!

member kimmy, I trust your "unknown/unidentified plan"... thinks of the children and their infection characteristics!

The impact of transmission through children is already built into the statistics regarding new cases and critical care cases, which are the main metric being used to track the spread of the virus. Your astounding revelation doesn't change anything. Dr Henry's charts and graphs from yesterday? The effects of children are already built into that data.

The Lancet report will probably be of interest to those deciding when and how to reopen schools and daycare operations and youth sports and other activities where children congregate in numbers, but I doubt anybody making those kinds of decisions was under the assumption that children wouldn't spread the viruses.  Schools in Taiwan and South Korea imposed social distancing measures on their students early on in their fight against the virus, so clearly people already anticipated that children would be carriers.

not surprisingly, even after multiple exchanges concerning that Lancet paper, you fail to grasp that without evidence from that paper (and its like), there is no foundation to state that, as it did, "healthy children are at a lower risk from dying from COVID-19"... and more pointedly that, "children can and are being infected as both symptomatic and asymptomatic transmitters of the virus".

Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 19, 2020, 03:22:02 am
To me, the conditions/requirements for easing of restriction are that our healthcare system be able to handle the number of critical cases.  That's it, that's my criterion.  I don't base it on the existence of a vaccine, or a 100% accurate test, or whatever. When those things do appear, they will considerably improve the level of risk mitigation we're able to do, but it is and always will be a matter of risk mitigation.  We won't be able to do 100% testing of the population, we won't be able to identify every asymptomatic carrier, we won't be able to guarantee nobody comes down with COVID in the future. But we can certainly keep things at a level where we can care for cases as they arise, as we do with other communicable diseases.

As we learn more about how this thing works, we will learn what kind of situations pose high risks of transmissions and what kind of situations can reopen without adding substantially to the level of risk.

your emphasis is on risk... even qualifying the buzzword mitigation as risk mitigation! By the by, who/what bears the risk in your view?

what's always telling to the waldo is to ask someone just what their interpretation of... their understanding of... COVID-19 mitigation actually is - and you member kimmy - and you? In any case, without drilling down into them, following are the broad conditions that must first be met, as set by the WHO, for any government to start lifting restrictions:

Quote

1. Disease transmission is under control

2. Health systems are able to "detect, test, isolate and treat every case and trace every contact"

3. Hot spot risks are minimized in vulnerable places, such as nursing homes

4. Schools, workplaces and other essential places have established preventive measures

5. The risk of importing new cases "can be managed"

6. Communities are fully educated, engaged and empowered to live under a new normal

Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 20, 2020, 08:56:04 pm
your emphasis is on risk... even qualifying the buzzword mitigation as risk mitigation! By the by, who/what bears the risk in your view?

what's always telling to the waldo is to ask someone just what their interpretation of... their understanding of... COVID-19 mitigation actually is - and you member kimmy - and you?

What I meant in using it is that activities, events, and venues that present an obvious risk of spread of the disease remain closed, while activities, events, and venues that present minimal opportunity for spread of the disease should be reopened as soon as possible. A hockey game or rock concert that puts 20,000 people into the same building for 3 hours presents an astronomically large number of interactions that could spread the virus, whereas reopening the clothing store down the street would create a minimal number of interactions that wouldn't make a measurable impact on the spread of the disease.

I don't care if that's not the official definition the health authorities might use when they use that term, that's the point I was trying to make.

In any case, without drilling down into them, following are the broad conditions that must first be met, as set by the WHO, for any government to start lifting restrictions:
Quote
1. Disease transmission is under control

2. Health systems are able to "detect, test, isolate and treat every case and trace every contact"

3. Hot spot risks are minimized in vulnerable places, such as nursing homes

4. Schools, workplaces and other essential places have established preventive measures

5. The risk of importing new cases "can be managed"

6. Communities are fully educated, engaged and empowered to live under a new normal

So which of these conditions do you feel we haven't met at this point?  Point 6-- "a new normal" is clearly bullshit, because nobody has yet defined what "a new normal" looks like, but people are clearly educated, engaged, and empowered to live under the temporary normal in which we find ourselves.  BC's numbers prove it, as the curve is not just "flattened" but falling.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 20, 2020, 10:21:19 pm
member kimmy, as an aside, I expect tied to your limited corporate world employment experience, you show your complete naivety in railing on about the relatively short job loss period to-date in relation to COVID-19 shutdowns... even extending that forward to say, 6 months to a year of unemployment. Those extended periods of lost job related unemployment are not that unusual in the work history of many of the boomers you so brazenly and repeatedly denigrate.

The boomers have certainly not experienced anything like this in their lifetimes.  The nature of the steps undertaken to fight this epidemic are unlike anything seen since WWII, and the economic impact of this is being projected by every expert to be worse than anything since the Great Depression.  In short: no, the Boomers don't have anything like this in their work histories.

Some things we saw after the 2007-8 recession:
 -stock markets and real-estate prices rebounded a lot faster than the job market
 -the job market was depressed for 4-5 years afterward
 -younger workers were disproportionately affected (older workers either kept their jobs or got early retirement packages; workers with the less experience and less seniority were cut loose, with less benefits and severance than their more senior peers.)

With this new economic depression, we can well expect that the crater is going to be deeper and wider than the 2007 recession.  And we can expect that young people will fare even worse. Not just because of the reasons mentioned above, but also because the industries hardest hit by the pandemic (restaurants, hospitality, travel, tourism, retail) are industries that disproportionately employ young people.

BC Chick's parents will be fine, boomers with defined-benefit pension plans will be even better and will probably be able to scoop up some real estate bargains while the market is recovering. Coonlight proposes that Millennials might be able to find real estate bargains during this time as well, but probably most of them will be too broke to take advantage.

"this summer" ... is that June, July, August or what - 2+, 3+, 4+ months away or what? The point being, they can't {yet} say, let alone estimate. More to the point, per B.C. Health Minister Dix:
Quote
Dix said finding a balance where British Columbians could resume some activities while containing the virus would be a huge task for officials in the weeks ahead.

"We must find a healthy way forward for the next 12 to 18 months Ö a healthy new normal that sustains us and keeps us safe," he said.

"We need to find a way forward that allows us to socialize. Whatever actions we take, we know there's a significant human cost if we get it wrong. The situation is complex, and it is without precedent in our lifetimes."

Dr Henry speaks of resuming some activities within the next few weeks, and way more socializing this summer.  Health Minister Dix speaks of finding "a new normal" over the next 12 to 18 months. Do you feel those two ideas are contradictory?  They aren't.

the waldo trusts the data and analysis is there; however, my crack research team hasn't found it... sure, sure, the Google COVID-19 Community Mobility Reports are readily available, but just how has the B.C. Health Authority used them to arrive at that current 30% level of interaction figure? Notwithstanding the most basic points that this Google "geolocation tracking" data presumes upon using Google Maps and requires people to have turned the normally off defaulted "Location History" setting on..... cause who has any concerns about privacy!

Dr Henry's statisticians and analysts and data crunchers are well aware that people can turn off the geolocation features in their phones.  I haven't asked them, but I can 100% guarantee that they know this.  I have to point out that your level of pomposity and hubris here has gone from its usual level (merely obnoxious) to an astounding new height (laugh-out-lout funny, comical, self-parody).

Your notion here, that you've spotted a "gotcha" that  BC Health's data scientists and epidemiologists never thought of, reminds me of our old friend pliny (at MLW) and his notion that he'd spotted flaws in physics theory that the greatest physics scholars somehow missed for centuries.

I can't tell if you're serious or you're trying to be funny, but whichever your intent: it's funny.

"But kimmy," someone might ask. "If people can turn off the location features in their smartphone, how do we know what's really going on?"

Well, it's like this. We don't need data from every person, or even every smart phone owner, to know what impact the restrictions are having. We get lots of data from people who do have their location features enabled, and we can compare the data since the lock down to the data from before the lockdown, and see how much the lockdown is restricting people.  We can use information provided by the people who have location features enabled to make projections about how the restrictions are affecting everybody else.


So how does this possibly skew the data? Or that the reports are by generic type, rather than particular location specific (e.g. the broad/generic Retail and Recreation category). In any case, your described "room for some restrictions to be lifted" over the interaction range 30%-to-60% has no foundation without some degree of specificity in term of "room, restrictions & lifted by how much"!

example - April 5th snapshot of 'up to April 2nd' data => if nothing else, an interesting statement on Canada versus the U.S. and, in particular, where certain states and provinces slot within. As for British Columbia: 54% mobility reduction in the Retail & Recreation category... 47% mobility reduction in the Workplace category

(https://i.imgur.com/zTIlbu3.png)

Again you post a graph and expect everybody to go "wow, that looks sciency! the waldo has really done his homework!" while hoping that nobody reads the fine print.  Your graph tracks "mobility", while Dr Henry's analysis is based on "contacts", not "mobility".

"But kimmy," someone might ask. "What's the difference?"

Here's the difference. Mobility doesn't measure how much you're interacting with people.   For example: a single trip to the grocery store, since after social distancing measures were put in place, would have the same "mobility" as single a trip to the grocery store before social distancing measures.  But it would would result in fewer contacts.  Before social distancing, you're in a busier store, you're standing within a couple of feet of each other at the broccoli counter and the checkout. Since social distancing, the store is only letting so many people in at once, people are mostly taking steps to give each other space, and the checkout line has everybody spaced out by 2m. Also consider the kinds of activities that are still open and those that are closed. A trip to the local arena to see a concert could generate a huge number of contacts, a walk in the woods could generate the same "mobility" as the concert while creating zero "contacts" at all.

So while the "mobility" data might indicate that people are making just 50% as many trips as they were before the lockdown, we can also project that the amount of "contacts" has decreased by an even larger degree because of social distancing measures.



 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 20, 2020, 11:07:59 pm
clarification: the waldo stands to be corrected; however, my crack research team has found the original notice that banned gatherings of over 250 people... and the update notice that, given worsening circumstance, banned gatherings of over 50 people - however, the team says they haven't (yet) found the notice that reduces the gathering ban even further. In your want to get the bars/pubs back open, are you sure you're not confusing the reason they're closed; i.e., not an essential service versus a gathering ban count restriction?

Lots of places have banned gatherings over 10 people, including a number of countries and many US states. In Canada,  the ban in BC is 50, in Alberta it's 15, Newfoundland, Yukon, Manitoba, New Brunswick and Saskatchewan have banned gatherings over 10, Ontario and Nova Scotia have banned gatherings over 5, Nunavut has banned all gatherings, and Quebec has banned gatherings of 2 or more (gatherings of one are apparently still allowed, which is reassuring in these troubled times.)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-coronavirus-rules-by-province-physical-distancing-open-closed/

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 20, 2020, 11:26:25 pm
the initial focus is on keeping essential services open - determining what are essential services. Obviously reducing restrictions in terms of venue size becomes one of 'economy of scale'. By the by, how viable will those smaller 20 people venues truly be if 2m physical distancing is maintained... notwithstanding how accepting thinking 'safety conscious/concerned' people will be to visiting in the first place... and what requirements will an establishment need to meet in terms of staff protections, sanitizing , etc..

A 20 seat venue might be a 50 seat venue with some of its tables closed off to maintain distance between customers.  The viability of a business under such circumstances is a decision for the owner and staff, and isn't something Dr Henry needs to concern herself with.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 20, 2020, 11:45:24 pm
Point 6-- "a new normal" is clearly bullshit, because nobody has yet defined what "a new normal" looks like
Dr Henry speaks of resuming some activities within the next few weeks, and way more socializing this summer.  Health Minister Dix speaks of finding "a new normal" over the next 12 to 18 months. Do you feel those two ideas are contradictory?  They aren't.

whatever gibberish you're trying to impart here, the waldo is keen to showcase your own... contradictory... statements. You're quite accepting to interpreting 'new normal' in your own self-serving manner - of course you are!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 20, 2020, 11:50:12 pm
whatever gibberish you're trying to impart here, the waldo is keen to showcase your own... contradictory... statements. You're quite accepting to interpreting 'new normal' in your own self-serving manner - of course you are!

Nonsense.  Things will be opening, but what the "new normal" will eventually be, as Minister Dix points out, will be a work in progress that develops over quite some time.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 20, 2020, 11:57:08 pm
member kimmy, as an aside, I expect tied to your limited corporate world employment experience, you show your complete naivety in railing on about the relatively short job loss period to-date in relation to COVID-19 shutdowns... even extending that forward to say, 6 months to a year of unemployment. Those extended periods of lost job related unemployment are not that unusual in the work history of many of the boomers you so brazenly and repeatedly denigrate.
The boomers have certainly not experienced anything like this in their lifetimes.  The nature of the steps undertaken to fight this epidemic are unlike anything seen since WWII, and the economic impact of this is being projected by every expert to be worse than anything since the Great Depression.  In short: no, the Boomers don't have anything like this in their work histories.

geezaz, the trouble you went to in NOT making your counterpoint! ;D Other than lost employment/lost wages current restrictions/shutdowns are causing, your future-casting is nothing more than navel-gazing! In the real world reality of NOW, the only concrete impact you can attest to is that same lost employment/lost wages... which, of course, is what the waldo was emphasizing. Which, by the way, is what you yourself emphasized; notwithstanding government relief measures available today to cover (some degree) of said lost wages.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 21, 2020, 12:01:28 am
Nonsense.  Things will be opening, but what the "new normal" will eventually be, as Minister Dix points out, will be a work in progress that develops over quite some time.

and yet, member kimmy chooses to, in a most contradictory manner, presume that the 'new normal' reference in the conditional, "Communities are fully educated, engaged and empowered to live under a new normal", is defined and absolute. Yet another member kimmy "OWN GOAL"!  ;D
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 21, 2020, 12:50:50 am
They are projecting the anticipated rate of patients in critical care on the level of social interaction going on.  The graph shows that if we resume 100% or 80% of normal levels of social interaction, the number of cases goes through the roof.  On the other hand, lower levels of interaction-- 60% of less, results in a rate of cases that doesn't snowball and remains low enough for the healthcare system to manage quite easily, as it is doing right now.  They estimate our level of interaction is currently at the range of about 30%, so there's certainly room for some restrictions to be lifted.  And restrictions can be put back in place as required to deal with "rebound outbreaks" that they anticipate will occur.
the waldo trusts the data and analysis is there; however, my crack research team hasn't found it... sure, sure, the Google COVID-19 Community Mobility Reports are readily available, but just how has the B.C. Health Authority used them to arrive at that current 30% level of interaction figure? Notwithstanding the most basic points that this Google "geolocation tracking" data presumes upon using Google Maps and requires people to have turned the normally off defaulted "Location History" setting on..... cause who has any concerns about privacy! So how does this possibly skew the data? Or that the reports are by generic type, rather than particular location specific (e.g. the broad/generic Retail and Recreation category). In any case, your described "room for some restrictions to be lifted" over the interaction range 30%-to-60% has no foundation without some degree of specificity in term of "room, restrictions & lifted by how much"!
Dr Henry's statisticians and analysts and data crunchers are well aware that people can turn off the geolocation features in their phones.  I haven't asked them, but I can 100% guarantee that they know this.  I have to point out that your level of pomposity and hubris here has gone from its usual level (merely obnoxious) to an astounding new height (laugh-out-lout funny, comical, self-parody).

Your notion here, that you've spotted a "gotcha" that  BC Health's data scientists and epidemiologists never thought of, reminds me of our old friend pliny (at MLW) and his notion that he'd spotted flaws in physics theory that the greatest physics scholars somehow missed for centuries.

I can't tell if you're serious or you're trying to be funny, but whichever your intent: it's funny.

"But kimmy," someone might ask. "If people can turn off the location features in their smartphone, how do we know what's really going on?"

Well, it's like this. We don't need data from every person, or even every smart phone owner, to know what impact the restrictions are having. We get lots of data from people who do have their location features enabled, and we can compare the data since the lock down to the data from before the lockdown, and see how much the lockdown is restricting people.  We can use information provided by the people who have location features enabled to make projections about how the restrictions are affecting everybody else.

you speak of funny... the funny is you trying to parse/wordsmith/craft something... anything... to counter a waldo point - you going so far as to imagine the waldo touts a gotcha! It ain't happening here, but keep on trying!

given your expressed 'tightness' with, as you say, "Dr Henry's statisticians and analysts and data crunchers", perhaps you could bring notice to the apparent unreleased methodology that arrived at the 30% interaction figure. Other than mentioning a reliance upon Google's COVID-19 Community Mobility Reports, the waldo's crack research team hasn't found any released details as to how the 30% figure has been arrived at. Wait, let me check with the team again for an update.............. nope, the team hasn't found any new info to help interested parties better understand and gain confidence in that 30% figure. Like you member kimmy, those who blindly and so willingly accept what's easily spoon-fed to them... and so easily digested, clearly have no curiosity or interest in such things!

note: the waldo provided 2 (of 5) category snapshot examples of the Reports data - strictly informative transfer. Most certainly the waldo didn't intend to bring forward yet another member kimmy wigOut moment where she rails on about "sciency looking"!  ;D
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 21, 2020, 02:16:05 am
Again you post a graph and expect everybody to go "wow, that looks sciency! the waldo has really done his homework!" while hoping that nobody reads the fine print.

you really need to get over your phobia of graphs... you keep referring to them as "sciency looking". In the cases you've objected to, they've simply been presentation avenues to impact some semblance of data relationship! In any case, science is your friend member kimmy - don't be afraid it! 

Your graph tracks "mobility", while Dr Henry's analysis is based on "contacts", not "mobility".

no - not MY {Reports} graphs; those are Google graphs... you know, the company in partnership with B.C. (Centre for Disease Control) to provide collected data to, through analysis and processing, arrive at that stated 30% interaction figure. As by name, the Reports 'Mobility Reduction' represents % change in visits to places (as segmented into 5 overall 'place categories'). The waldo never made your grandiose leap to assume an interaction estimate was based solely upon mobility reduction... that's your idiocy at play; as I stated, "the waldo trusts the data and analysis is there", to support the stated 30% estimate figure. Of course it is - it just doesn't appear to have been publicly released... yet - a release that would allow, of course, independent critical assessment of the data and analysis involved.                 

"But kimmy," someone might ask. "What's the difference?"

Here's the difference. Mobility doesn't measure how much you're interacting with people.   For example: a single trip to the grocery store, since after social distancing measures were put in place, would have the same "mobility" as single a trip to the grocery store before social distancing measures.  But it would would result in fewer contacts.  Before social distancing, you're in a busier store, you're standing within a couple of feet of each other at the broccoli counter and the checkout. Since social distancing, the store is only letting so many people in at once, people are mostly taking steps to give each other space, and the checkout line has everybody spaced out by 2m. Also consider the kinds of activities that are still open and those that are closed. A trip to the local arena to see a concert could generate a huge number of contacts, a walk in the woods could generate the same "mobility" as the concert while creating zero "contacts" at all.

So while the "mobility" data might indicate that people are making just 50% as many trips as they were before the lockdown, we can also project that the amount of "contacts" has decreased by an even larger degree because of social distancing measures.

oh my, member kimmy - oh my!  ;D You've imparted such "who knew" knowledge yet you can't provide any information to answer the original waldo statement/questioning as to the methodology behind the stated 30% interaction figure... a figure which (relative to an upper-bounds 60% figure), so emboldened you as to talk of there being "room to lift restrictions". One would think such emboldenment on your part would be matched with the supporting "how" the estimate was arrived at. So, basically, other than your plaintiveWail... you gots nuthin to suggest how the 30% interaction figure was realized - to understand the methodology that determined the current estimated contact level between British Columbians is at around 30 per cent of normal. Of course, that interaction estimate is based, in part, on the Google sourced mobility reduction data I referenced.

stating the all to obvious (even to you member kimmy, even to you), public confidence in removing current restrictions is key -  how safe will the public feel in terms of accepting the removal of certain restrictions? The key starts with full transparency in how levels of interaction estimates are arrived at; including transparency that can be imparted to a layperson level.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 21, 2020, 02:23:29 am
Do you really think it's realistic to just maintain a ban on gatherings of over 10 people until 2022?

clarification: the waldo stands to be corrected; however, my crack research team has found the original notice that banned gatherings of over 250 people... and the update notice that, given worsening circumstance, banned gatherings of over 50 people - however, the team says they haven't (yet) found the notice that reduces the gathering ban even further. In your want to get the bars/pubs back open, are you sure you're not confusing the reason they're closed; i.e., not an essential service versus a gathering ban count restriction?
Lots of places have banned gatherings over 10 people, including a number of countries and many US states. In Canada,  the ban in BC is 50, in Alberta it's 15, Newfoundland, Yukon, Manitoba, New Brunswick and Saskatchewan have banned gatherings over 10, Ontario and Nova Scotia have banned gatherings over 5, Nunavut has banned all gatherings, and Quebec has banned gatherings of 2 or more (gatherings of one are apparently still allowed, which is reassuring in these troubled times.)

yabut you/we were talking of B.C.; hence my reference to 250... to 50. But thanks for verifying my reference to the current B.C. ban on gatherings of over 50 people - good on ya!

Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 21, 2020, 02:36:44 am
the initial focus is on keeping essential services open - determining what are essential services. Obviously reducing restrictions in terms of venue size becomes one of 'economy of scale'. By the by, how viable will those smaller 20 people venues truly be if 2m physical distancing is maintained... notwithstanding how accepting thinking 'safety conscious/concerned' people will be to visiting in the first place... and what requirements will an establishment need to meet in terms of staff protections, sanitizing , etc..
A 20 seat venue might be a 50 seat venue with some of its tables closed off to maintain distance between customers.  The viability of a business under such circumstances is a decision for the owner and staff, and isn't something Dr Henry needs to concern herself with.

never said it was something for Dr. Henry (the Provincial Medical Health Officer) to be concerned with - how/why would it be? As I said, it speaks to influencing the viability of a business opening up and staying open. In any case, I expect government assistance monies won't be so readily available once restrictions begin to be removed - the price of doing business!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on April 21, 2020, 11:22:56 am
If we open up society, healthcare systems get overwhelmed, and a lot of people die.  I don't care if you're inconvenienced.  We're all inconvenienced.  Boo hoo.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on April 21, 2020, 11:58:11 am
If we open up society, healthcare systems get overwhelmed, and a lot of people die.  I don't care if you're inconvenienced.  We're all inconvenienced.  Boo hoo.

Totally agree. Health care systems here have certainly been impacted but lets hope we act sensibly enough to keep them from becoming overwhelmed. We've all seen the activity on US beaches/streets in certain states that have relaxed their safeguards where even though Trump claims physical distancing is being practiced, the videos clearly show otherwise. I suspect that we have similar groups here who would demonstrate similar dangerous activities if we let our guard down. One of the really scary issues we see popping up is that people who are infected can be asymptomatic and be passing the bug along without even knowing they have it. We need to hang back and let the specialists get a handle on this thing, especially ramping up testing so we can get the appropriate people isolated.   
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 21, 2020, 09:02:57 pm
If we open up society, healthcare systems get overwhelmed, and a lot of people die.  I don't care if you're inconvenienced.  We're all inconvenienced.  Boo hoo.

For many it is much more than an inconvenience but unfortunately the virus is making the rules.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on April 22, 2020, 08:21:09 am
For many it is much more than an inconvenience but unfortunately the virus is making the rules.

By comparison to people dying, it's an inconvenience.  People are being provided for. 
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 22, 2020, 09:13:51 am
By comparison to people dying, it's an inconvenience.  People are being provided for.

To a degree but there are a lot of small businesses that wonít survive this, people who canít make their rent or mortgage payments, pension and retirement plans that will be in real trouble etc. Governments can only do so much and they are doing it on borrowed money with greatly reduced revenues.


We are approaching our mid seventies and while we are in good health, we are high risk and really appreciate the sacrifices others are making to keep people like us alive.

Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 22, 2020, 02:06:34 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/IobNdME.jpg)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 22, 2020, 02:12:38 pm
back to work Bitches!

(https://i.imgur.com/h2M7bWa.jpg)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 22, 2020, 04:50:46 pm
By comparison to people dying, it's an inconvenience.

Agreed

Quote
People are being provided for.

True, but often for needs only.  They can't save every small business, so life savings are being lost.  It's sad and a shame.  But still better than dying.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 22, 2020, 05:17:53 pm
We are looking at a 38% increase in the debt in two years depending on the cost of a second wave and government revenues. It could be much more. Scary.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on April 22, 2020, 10:30:26 pm
We are looking at a 38% increase in the debt in two years depending on the cost of a second wave and government revenues. It could be much more. Scary.

This year's borrowing so far will cost the treasury in the range of $1.8B per year on an ongoing basis.  Lets say that quadruples.  Oh well.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 22, 2020, 10:38:12 pm
This year's borrowing so far will cost the treasury in the range of $1.8B per year on an ongoing basis.  Lets say that quadruples.  Oh well.

Depends on interest rates, can you guarantee they will always stay this low?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on April 22, 2020, 10:41:24 pm
Depends on interest rates, can you guarantee they will always stay this low?

That's what they'll be for at least 30 years, because that's what the bonds will be locked in at. 
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 22, 2020, 10:55:17 pm
That's what they'll be for at least 30 years, because that's what the bonds will be locked in at.
Good luck with that. Governments all over the world will be peddling bonds to cover their increased debt. You can't force people to buy them even if you can find enough people with the money.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on April 22, 2020, 11:25:19 pm
Good luck with that. Governments all over the world will be peddling bonds to cover their increased debt. You can't force people to buy them even if you can find enough people with the money.

The debt of most countries is far less valuable than the debt of Canada.  We won't have any problem finding buyers.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 22, 2020, 11:29:19 pm
The debt of most countries is far less valuable than the debt of Canada.  We won't have any problem finding buyers.

Hold that thought. Trillions in equity have disappeared in the last month, you seem to think there is unlimited money out there looking for a place to go.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 23, 2020, 02:03:49 am
(https://i.imgur.com/ruEw7Ei.jpg)    (https://i.imgur.com/TRmCvpg.png)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 23, 2020, 02:42:43 am
Everybody see the interview with the mayor of Las Vegas on CNN today? What a frightening, scary, dumb **** she seems to be.

a short snippet of that Anderson Cooper interview (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1253041645135724552/pu/vid/960x540/g-I8ouMoF0vvdoqj.mp4)... mayor is an absolute loon!

please waldo, can I have another?

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1253035827103444992/pu/vid/960x540/KYoU_1Tq2gqVbFWg.mp4
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on April 23, 2020, 09:03:46 am
Hold that thought. Trillions in equity have disappeared in the last month, you seem to think there is unlimited money out there looking for a place to go.

There is unlimited money in the short term.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 23, 2020, 09:12:48 am
There is unlimited money in the short term.

Iím not an economist but it seems to me that pumping lots of new money into an economy without a corresponding increase in goods and services to justify it is a recipe for devaluing your currency.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on April 23, 2020, 09:30:44 am
Iím not an economist but it seems to me that pumping lots of new money into an economy without a corresponding increase in goods and services to justify it is a recipe for devaluing your currency.

Most economists seem to agree that atm, inflation is the least of our concerns.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on April 23, 2020, 09:37:22 am
Most economists seem to agree that atm, inflation is the least of our concerns.
Tell me that again when you are told the new value of your earnings and savings is minus one or two zeros. It has happened in other countries and it can here.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on April 23, 2020, 10:16:47 am
Tell me that again when you are told the new value of your earnings and savings is minus one or two zeros. It has happened in other countries and it can here.

Two years from now, it would be a definite concern.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 23, 2020, 11:03:28 am
you speak of funny... the funny is you trying to parse/wordsmith/craft something... anything... to counter a waldo point - you going so far as to imagine the waldo touts a gotcha! It ain't happening here, but keep on trying!

given your expressed 'tightness' with, as you say, "Dr Henry's statisticians and analysts and data crunchers", perhaps you could bring notice to the apparent unreleased methodology that arrived at the 30% interaction figure. Other than mentioning a reliance upon Google's COVID-19 Community Mobility Reports, the waldo's crack research team hasn't found any released details as to how the 30% figure has been arrived at. Wait, let me check with the team again for an update.............. nope, the team hasn't found any new info to help interested parties better understand and gain confidence in that 30% figure. Like you member kimmy, those who blindly and so willingly accept what's easily spoon-fed to them... and so easily digested, clearly have no curiosity or interest in such things!

note: the waldo provided 2 (of 5) category snapshot examples of the Reports data - strictly informative transfer. Most certainly the waldo didn't intend to bring forward yet another member kimmy wigOut moment where she rails on about "sciency looking"!  ;D

I place much more trust in Dr Henry's crack team than Dr Waldo's crackhead team.    I'm sure most do... the level of buy-in for the social distancing measures demonstrates a high level of public trust.   The notion that the public won't trust their assessment seems unfounded.

And given the stated 50% mobility figure, the 30% contacts estimate is probably very conservative, given the kind of activities that are closed and the social distancing measures in place for things that remain open.

I've done university level science, math, and statistics. I'm very comfortable with graphs and all other sciency-looking things. And unlike some I'm well-equipped to assess whether they're supporting the claims that the waldo purports them to.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 23, 2020, 11:07:49 am
whatever gibberish you're trying to impart here, the waldo is keen to showcase your own... contradictory... statements. You're quite accepting to interpreting 'new normal' in your own self-serving manner - of course you are!

There's no contradiction. As Health Minister Dix points out, a "new normal" has yet to be defined. For the WHO conditions to be contingent upon our ability to adapt to some circumstance that hasn't even been defined is just nonsensical.  Nonetheless, Canadians have shown that we are "empowered and educated" to adapt to whatever conditions might be set.

I notice that you declined to specify which of the conditions you specified haven't been met. I can only assume you agree we meet all of them.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 23, 2020, 11:19:44 am
never said it was something for Dr. Henry (the Provincial Medical Health Officer) to be concerned with - how/why would it be? As I said, it speaks to influencing the viability of a business opening up and staying open. In any case, I expect government assistance monies won't be so readily available once restrictions begin to be removed - the price of doing business!

Government assistance isn't going to keep businesses alive for long anyway.  They can't live forever on interest free loans (if they even qualify). For many businesses if they're not open soon they're not going to open ever.  Survey of Toronto businesses:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6851513/toronto-businesses-landlords-survey-coronavirus/

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 23, 2020, 11:25:35 am
yabut you/we were talking of B.C.; hence my reference to 250... to 50. But thanks for verifying my reference to the current B.C. ban on gatherings of over 50 people - good on ya!

My remarks didn't specify BC.  And for the majority of Canadians the limit is indeed 10 or less. 

Instead of commenting on the viability of maintaining such bans until a vaccine becomes available (quite possibly 2022 or later) you've decided to quibble over the size of gatherings being banned.  Typical waldo.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 23, 2020, 11:27:06 am
you really need to get over your phobia of graphs... you keep referring to them as "sciency looking". In the cases you've objected to, they've simply been presentation avenues to impact some semblance of data relationship! In any case, science is your friend member kimmy - don't be afraid it! 

no - not MY {Reports} graphs; those are Google graphs... you know, the company in partnership with B.C. (Centre for Disease Control) to provide collected data to, through analysis and processing, arrive at that stated 30% interaction figure. As by name, the Reports 'Mobility Reduction' represents % change in visits to places (as segmented into 5 overall 'place categories'). The waldo never made your grandiose leap to assume an interaction estimate was based solely upon mobility reduction... that's your idiocy at play; as I stated, "the waldo trusts the data and analysis is there", to support the stated 30% estimate figure. Of course it is - it just doesn't appear to have been publicly released... yet - a release that would allow, of course, independent critical assessment of the data and analysis involved.                 

oh my, member kimmy - oh my!  ;D You've imparted such "who knew" knowledge yet you can't provide any information to answer the original waldo statement/questioning as to the methodology behind the stated 30% interaction figure... a figure which (relative to an upper-bounds 60% figure), so emboldened you as to talk of there being "room to lift restrictions". One would think such emboldenment on your part would be matched with the supporting "how" the estimate was arrived at. So, basically, other than your plaintiveWail... you gots nuthin to suggest how the 30% interaction figure was realized - to understand the methodology that determined the current estimated contact level between British Columbians is at around 30 per cent of normal. Of course, that interaction estimate is based, in part, on the Google sourced mobility reduction data I referenced.

A whole lot of typing to say that you haven't yet the methodology yet.

stating the all to obvious (even to you member kimmy, even to you), public confidence in removing current restrictions is key -  how safe will the public feel in terms of accepting the removal of certain restrictions? The key starts with full transparency in how levels of interaction estimates are arrived at; including transparency that can be imparted to a layperson level.

The public has a high level of confidence in our health department.

Even more than confidence, the public safety depends on cooperation with the restrictions. People won't cooperate forever.  Luckily as several provinces are now talking about beginning to reduce restrictions in the next month, people will start feeling that there's light at the end of the tunnel.


 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on April 23, 2020, 11:41:45 am
If we open up society, healthcare systems get overwhelmed, and a lot of people die. 

The current modeling coming from BC suggests that's just not true.  We can begin reducing restrictions without the system being overwhelmed.  Other provinces are looking at the same, Manitoba might be the first to start.

I don't care if you're inconvenienced.  We're all inconvenienced.  Boo hoo.

And that's just ignorant.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on April 23, 2020, 01:14:26 pm
The current modeling coming from BC suggests that's just not true.

The current situation in other countries shows it to be true.

Quote
And that's just ignorant.

What's ignorant is your flippant position.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 23, 2020, 01:19:09 pm
you speak of funny... the funny is you trying to parse/wordsmith/craft something... anything... to counter a waldo point - you going so far as to imagine the waldo touts a gotcha! It ain't happening here, but keep on trying!

given your expressed 'tightness' with, as you say, "Dr Henry's statisticians and analysts and data crunchers", perhaps you could bring notice to the apparent unreleased methodology that arrived at the 30% interaction figure. Other than mentioning a reliance upon Google's COVID-19 Community Mobility Reports, the waldo's crack research team hasn't found any released details as to how the 30% figure has been arrived at. Wait, let me check with the team again for an update.............. nope, the team hasn't found any new info to help interested parties better understand and gain confidence in that 30% figure. Like you member kimmy, those who blindly and so willingly accept what's easily spoon-fed to them... and so easily digested, clearly have no curiosity or interest in such things!

note: the waldo provided 2 (of 5) category snapshot examples of the Reports data - strictly informative transfer. Most certainly the waldo didn't intend to bring forward yet another member kimmy wigOut moment where she rails on about "sciency looking"!  ;D

... the level of buy-in for the social distancing measures demonstrates a high level of public trust. The notion that the public won't trust their assessment seems unfounded.

certainly as I said, those like you member kimmy, those who blindly and so willingly accept what's easily spoon-fed to them... and so easily digested, they'll probably be the, uhhh... first responders to your bar opening! In any case, you should probably try a few googlies (or more closely read the 'Back To Work' thread, to recognize polls show the public overwhelmingly don't want the restrictions/shutdowns to end, any time soon!
 
And given the stated 50% mobility figure, the 30% contacts estimate is probably very conservative, given the kind of activities that are closed and the social distancing measures in place for things that remain open.

again, you haven't a clue as to how that 30% figure was arrived at - you're blindly accepting it without even asking for/wanting transparency in how it was arrived at. You have absolutely no basis to speak of it being, as you have, "very conservative - probably"!

I've done university level science, math, and statistics. I'm very comfortable with graphs and all other sciency-looking things. And unlike some I'm well-equipped to assess whether they're supporting the claims that the waldo purports them to.

sure, sure - uhhh, why so defensive? ;D The way you're so taken aback by, as you're repeatedly saying, "sciency looking" stuff... and the way you absolutely failed in your recent "trend analysis", clearly shows you're better suited for the rigors of the mighty POC Squirrel!



Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 23, 2020, 02:03:51 pm
Point 6-- "a new normal" is clearly bullshit, because nobody has yet defined what "a new normal" looks like
Dr Henry speaks of resuming some activities within the next few weeks, and way more socializing this summer.  Health Minister Dix speaks of finding "a new normal" over the next 12 to 18 months. Do you feel those two ideas are contradictory?  They aren't.

whatever gibberish you're trying to impart here, the waldo is keen to showcase your own... contradictory... statements. You're quite accepting to interpreting 'new normal' in your own self-serving manner - of course you are!

There's no contradiction. As Health Minister Dix points out, a "new normal" has yet to be defined. For the WHO conditions to be contingent upon our ability to adapt to some circumstance that hasn't even been defined is just nonsensical.  Nonetheless, Canadians have shown that we are "empowered and educated" to adapt to whatever conditions might be set.

like I said, in your typical self-serving way, you want to presume upon an absence of a new normal definition for B.C., while you infer the WHO has done so; has defined it based upon this single criteria point: #6. Communities are fully educated, engaged and empowered to live under a new normal - of course you are!

try this WHO statements on for size; keyword transition:
Quote
Transition to a Ďnew normalí during the COVID-19 pandemic must be guided by public health principles. Any steps to transition towards Ďa new normalí must be guided by public health principles, together with economic and societal considerations.

stop embarrassing yourself member kimmy - just stop it! Or if you're still inclined to do so, try answering with your understanding of the readiness of B.C. to meet criteria point 2; this point: #2. Health systems are able to "detect, test, isolate and treat every case and trace every contact"
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 23, 2020, 02:28:08 pm
yabut you/we were talking of B.C.; hence my reference to 250... to 50. But thanks for verifying my reference to the current B.C. ban on gatherings of over 50 people - good on ya!

My remarks didn't specify BC.  And for the majority of Canadians the limit is indeed 10 or less. 

Instead of commenting on the viability of maintaining such bans until a vaccine becomes available (quite possibly 2022 or later) you've decided to quibble over the size of gatherings being banned.  Typical waldo

quit your quibbling! If you're going to take such quibbling exception, the waldo suggests you provide explicit references to delineate when you're talking of B.C. (as is most of your emphasis) and when you're speaking more broadly - you're welcome!

as for your continued emphasis on nothing being done until a vaccine is ready, who said so? - name the names, other than yourself. You keep referring to a worst-case "2022 or later" timing; again, who said so? - name the names, other than yourself. Such an alarmist you are!

by the by, those "typical" range references speak to a year-to-18 months away - that's April 2021-to-October 2021. There's a world-wide focus on developing a vaccine now... the beginnings of an assortment of human trials have commenced. Of course, it will not be easy... and much remains unknown about the virus, notwithstanding what efficacy and effectiveness will be realized. FWIW: Status Report on an assortment of in-development vaccines (https://www.cell.com/immunity/pdf/S1074-7613(20)30120-5.pdf)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 23, 2020, 02:42:51 pm
you really need to get over your phobia of graphs... you keep referring to them as "sciency looking". In the cases you've objected to, they've simply been presentation avenues to impact some semblance of data relationship! In any case, science is your friend member kimmy - don't be afraid it! 

no - not MY {Reports} graphs; those are Google graphs... you know, the company in partnership with B.C. (Centre for Disease Control) to provide collected data to, through analysis and processing, arrive at that stated 30% interaction figure. As by name, the Reports 'Mobility Reduction' represents % change in visits to places (as segmented into 5 overall 'place categories'). The waldo never made your grandiose leap to assume an interaction estimate was based solely upon mobility reduction... that's your idiocy at play; as I stated, "the waldo trusts the data and analysis is there", to support the stated 30% estimate figure. Of course it is - it just doesn't appear to have been publicly released... yet - a release that would allow, of course, independent critical assessment of the data and analysis involved.                 

oh my, member kimmy - oh my!  ;D You've imparted such "who knew" knowledge yet you can't provide any information to answer the original waldo statement/questioning as to the methodology behind the stated 30% interaction figure... a figure which (relative to an upper-bounds 60% figure), so emboldened you as to talk of there being "room to lift restrictions". One would think such emboldenment on your part would be matched with the supporting "how" the estimate was arrived at. So, basically, other than your plaintiveWail... you gots nuthin to suggest how the 30% interaction figure was realized - to understand the methodology that determined the current estimated contact level between British Columbians is at around 30 per cent of normal. Of course, that interaction estimate is based, in part, on the Google sourced mobility reduction data I referenced.

A whole lot of typing to say that you haven't yet the methodology yet.

nice one! Both Alexa and Siri weren't able to decipher what you intended to say here. Now the waldo will say, you've hardly typed anything in confirming you haven't been able to ascertain the basis of/foundation for the B.C. Health Authority's determination of a supposed/claimed current 30% interaction level.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Dia on April 25, 2020, 09:11:22 am
So it turns out that young people who have mild covid symptoms are more prone to developing blood clots everywhere, including the brain.  These brain clots are very unusual because of the age of the victims, the size of the clot, that they also occur in veins and there may be multiple clots.   One doc noted more clots forming in real time, even as he removed the one that caused the stroke.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/

If these clots don't kill you, you'll be incapacitated for a long while at least, and may never return to normal. Fortunately, it doesn't appear to be a lot of people, so far. 

Left out of death official death counts are people who die at home, after having experienced covid type symptoms. We've no idea of the age if these victims, if they had a mild case but had a covid-induced stroke or heart attack and it's unlikely authorities will know any time soon, if ever.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-fdny-idUSKBN21P3KF

  https://www.propublica.org/article/theres-been-a-spike-in-people-dying-at-home-in-several-cities-that-suggests-coronavirus-deaths-are-higher-than-reported

I don't think there's any way of knowing, yet, the full impact of this disease and so a lot of caution is warranted, for all age groups. 
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 26, 2020, 12:11:03 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LUSfQ3XkQ8
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 26, 2020, 12:18:37 pm
open up too soon without appropriate testing in place - a tale of 2 cities: Hokkaido Japan vs. Daegu South Korea

Quote
Hokkaido declared a three-week state of emergency in February that was lifted on March 19. The prefecture had begun to reopen schools and was even allowing carefully orchestrated public gatherings.

But the latest order reverses all that, asking residents once again to refrain from nonessential trips outside their homes and closing prefectural primary and secondary schools until May 6.

The directive comes amid a resurgence in virus cases throughout the country that prompted Prime Minister Shinzo Abe last week to issue a state of emergency for several other prefectures, in and around the capital, Tokyo, and Osaka.

After the Daegu outbreak, the South Korean government began a massive testing program to try and track the epidemic. Japan has done the opposite.

Even now, more than three months after Japan recorded its first case, it is still only testing a tiny percentage of the population.

The major lesson to take from Hokkaido is that even if you are successful in the containment the first time around, it's difficult to isolate and maintain the containment for a long period. Unless you expand the testing capacity, it's difficult to identify community transmission and hospital transmission.

Coronavirus lockdown: Lessons from Hokkaido's second wave of infections (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52305055)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on April 29, 2020, 05:37:45 pm
March 6: Donald J. Trump says, "Anyone that needs a test, gets a test"!

huuuuge milestone today, April 29: increased emphasis on testing has resulted in the U.S. testing a grand total of 1.6% of the entire U.S. population; testing capacity is, Trump says, "fully sufficient to begin opening the country."

SlendermanKushner says: "The federal government rose to the challenge and this is a great success story and I think that that's really what needs to be told. The question shouldn't be why did it take so long, but, how did we do this so quickly?"
(https://i.imgur.com/74a7EtX.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/6VNf0i7.png)April 29, 2020, 22:29 GMT
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 01, 2020, 02:17:06 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/1sEFz8C.jpg) (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zXXFf0Q2bcU/maxresdefault.jpg)

of course Trump calls protesters who carried guns into the Michigan Capitol 'very good people'... deja vu, hey Charlottesville!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 01, 2020, 03:49:16 pm
It's apparently fashionable to conflate people who support reducing restrictions in Canada with gun-toting yokels in the United States.  But most Canadian provinces are now indeed moving toward reducing restrictions in the very near future.   It's not just yokels talking about it, it's Canadian premiers and provincial health officers.

Despite hysteria from folks like Omni who think that reopening beaches and parks is going to kill a bunch of people, parks and beaches here in Kim City (and the rest of BC, as far as I know) were never closed and we've got among the best numbers in Canada.  Yesterday Dr Henry was encouraging everyone to go outside and enjoy the sun.  Today the Kim City Kayak Club is reopening, and tomorrow I'll be out on the lake. And millions of old-people aren't going to die because of it. Elective surgeries and personal care will start reopening soon. And not long after that, the phased reopening will expand.

The time for hysteria is over.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on May 01, 2020, 07:23:38 pm
I broke a tooth back in January and would really like to get it fixed.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 01, 2020, 07:25:44 pm
The time for hysteria is over.

nice to see you finally moving on... you were so over-the-top!  ;D
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 01, 2020, 08:15:48 pm
I broke a tooth back in January and would really like to get it fixed.

Dental work is definitely the highest risk of any activity you could do right now. 
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: MH on May 02, 2020, 06:19:18 am
It's apparently fashionable to conflate people who support reducing restrictions in Canada with gun-toting yokels in the United States.  But most Canadian provinces are now indeed moving toward reducing restrictions in the very near future.   It's not just yokels talking about it, it's Canadian premiers and provincial health officers.

At what point do we need to accept the self-appointed spokesfolk as the face of the issue ?  In a parallel situation, you selected Jessica Yaniv as a spokesthem who stands for trans people remember ?  So can I take the pretty-much-anonymous group of people baying for their rights and calling Trudeau 'Stalin' on Facebook as the Face of gun rights ?

Quote


The time for hysteria is over.
 

Is it ?  Lay me down a rule that applies to the Confederate Flag hoisting Albertans and the hysterical Yanivs, and let's agree to follow it together ?

How about if either one of us label someone an 'extremist' then we are to follow their arguments with less seriousness, and appoint someone with a more reasonable version of the same views to listen to instead ?  Let's designate who will be part of this discussion for us maybe ?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: msj on May 02, 2020, 07:04:27 am
[attach=1]
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on May 02, 2020, 08:53:21 am
Dental work is definitely the highest risk of any activity you could do right now.

Ya, good thing it is only sensitive to cold temperatures, otherwise it doesnít bother me much. Iím afraid it will abscess one day.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 02, 2020, 11:23:46 am
(Attachment Link)

Thief!!! haha, kidding.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: BC_cheque on May 03, 2020, 01:06:46 am

The time for hysteria is over.



Or.... maybe the hysteria was effective.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 03, 2020, 12:39:34 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/7IGuHqq.jpg)

Quote from: Donald J. Trump - President of the United States of America
The Governor of Michigan should give a little, and put out the fire. These are very good people.  But they are angry. They want their lives back again, safely! See them, talk to them, make a deal.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zXXFf0Q2bcU/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 03, 2020, 01:02:01 pm
Why werenít the ones involved in an armed insurrection shot dead by police?   ???
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 03, 2020, 02:34:09 pm

The time for hysteria is over.


Is that so that when people start dying en masse, you can blame the government for not doing enough?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 03, 2020, 02:36:50 pm

Or.... maybe the hysteria was effective.

No, caution was effective. Preparation was effective.

Our public health officials were very correct in reacting with the utmost caution in the early days of this.   But now that we have more information, we can now see that some of the measures are excessive.   Continuing the ban on large gatherings and school and so on makes sense. Continuing to keep the fucken boat launch locked down doesn't make sense.

One of the things that's striking is that you guys seem incapable of nuance.  You're apparently incapable of understanding that schools and concerts and festivals pose a completely different level of risk to parks and beaches and boat launches and similar.  We've seen Omni running around screaming like Chicken Little about beaches in the US being reopened. Beaches here in BC were never actually closed, but the sky hasn't fallen. As more low-risk activities resume in BC and other parts of Canada in the very near future, the sky will continue to not fall.  And strangely I have the feeling that some of you will be disappointed when it doesn't.


 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 03, 2020, 02:37:59 pm
Is that so that when people start dying en masse, you can blame the government for not doing enough?

See, Michael? This is the hysteria thing I was talking about.   People aren't going to die en masse this month as provinces being reopening activities.

Go ahead, book mark this post, and get back to me if I'm wrong.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 03, 2020, 02:45:47 pm
See, Michael? This is the hysteria thing I was talking about.   People aren't going to die en masse this month as provinces being reopening activities.

The opening in most provinces tomorrow is so limited, that it will produce very little in the way of changes to the way we're going about our lives.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 03, 2020, 02:49:58 pm
It's limited, and people will be able to resume many activities that have been needlessly halted, and the sky won't fall.

Mass deaths won't ensue.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 03, 2020, 03:10:16 pm
It's limited, and people will be able to resume many activities that have been needlessly halted, and the sky won't fall.

Mass deaths won't ensue.

 -k

You're right, because most restrictions are being left in place. I support a very limited opening. What I don't support is your flippant disregard for the lives of others.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on May 03, 2020, 03:33:10 pm
It's limited, and people will be able to resume many activities that have been needlessly halted, and the sky won't fall.

Mass deaths won't ensue.

 -k

You just watch what happens in the states under trump's guidance. En masse is exactly how they will die if they follow his directions, which I suspect a lot of the dummies will.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 03, 2020, 04:14:54 pm
No, caution was effective. Preparation was effective.

Yes.  That's what all these precautions were about.  Hysteria never entered into it.

Quote
Our public health officials were very correct in reacting with the utmost caution in the early days of this.   But now that we have more information, we can now see that some of the measures are excessive.   Continuing the ban on large gatherings and school and so on makes sense. Continuing to keep the fucken boat launch locked down doesn't make sense.

You heading to the boat launch?  The only ones around here that are closed are the ones in Provincial Parks, which were all closed.  No hysteria there.  I would presume the ones in Ontario that were closed were due to the party crowds that congregate around ski boats.  They wanted to avoid Covidiots getting together in busy areas. 

Quote

One of the things that's striking is that you guys seem incapable of nuance.  You're apparently incapable of understanding that schools and concerts and festivals pose a completely different level of risk to parks and beaches and boat launches and similar. 

We've seen Omni running around screaming like Chicken Little about beaches in the US being reopened. Beaches here in BC were never actually closed, but the sky hasn't fallen. As more low-risk activities resume in BC and other parts of Canada in the very near future, the sky will continue to not fall.  And strangely I have the feeling that some of you will be disappointed when it doesn't.


 -k

Here's some nuance you missed Kimmy...   beaches in BC weren't closed because they weren't crowded.  Beaches in Florida had to be closed because they were packed with idiots who weren't following the rules.  You are ignoring a huge difference there.  Did Omni ever propose our beaches be closed? 

Here's some other nuance you missed Kimmy....  you weren't complaining that you weren't allowed to go to a boat ramp...  or a beach...   or out in the woods or to parks...  because you could do all of those things.  You complained about not being able to go to the bar.    ::)

You are ignoring all nuance just for the sake of complaining.  No one here has even argued that boat ramps should be closed!   But you are now fixated on that??  You don't want to go to the bar anymore? 

 
Quote
A significant portion of these deaths have been inside nursing homes.   Preventing kimmy from going to the bar after work doesn't do anything to protect nursing home residents.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 04, 2020, 09:08:59 am
WAPO has opened up its paywall on this most devastating account:

34 days of pandemic: Inside Trumpís desperate attempts to reopen America (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/34-days-of-pandemic-inside-trumps-desperate-attempts-to-reopen-america/2020/05/02/e99911f4-8b54-11ea-9dfd-990f9dcc71fc_story.html)

Quote
Trump "repeatedly embraced fantasy cure-alls" and "sought to obscure major problems by trying to recast them as triumphs."

His briefings became a forum to "shift blame, stoke feuds, spread misinformation and inspire false hope."
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 05, 2020, 12:04:58 am
You're right, because most restrictions are being left in place. I support a very limited opening. What I don't support is your flippant disregard for the lives of others.

What flippant regard for the lives of others?  Despite what a few chunks of crap have been saying about me, I never said that I don't care if old people die because I want to go to the bar. What I DID say was:

Quote
A significant portion of these deaths have been inside nursing homes.   Preventing kimmy from going to the bar after work doesn't do anything to protect nursing home residents.

And I still don't think that kimmy going to the bar killed any old-people.

I believe we now have multiple inquiries going on into exactly what went wrong at nursing homes. And I believe that those inquiries are looking into things like training and qualifications of nursing home staff, policies and procedures put in place by nursing home operators, conditions in for-profit homes, and this sort of thing.  One thing that a lot of people have been looking at is the practice of care workers working at multiple different nursing homes in the same city, with the result of cross-pollinating the virus among all the nursing homes.   

We had community transmission of coronavirus everywhere in Canada, and yet this level of devastation was specific to nursing homes, and it happened in nursing homes all over the country. This wasn't just a product of community transmission, it was something specific to nursing homes.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 05, 2020, 12:33:05 am
Yes.  That's what all these precautions were about.  Hysteria never entered into it.

Sure. There's been lots of hysteria going on. We've seen Omni. We've seen waldo ranting about "azzhole joggers" who are going to kill everybody.

I just read this account  (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-pandemic-is-hard-enough-dont-make-it-harder-by-shaming-people/)of a woman who had to take her kids grocery shopping with her:
Recently, Rebekah Geldart, a single mother of two children in Guelph, Ont., had to take her children to the grocery store with her. Her childrenís father was unavailable to help, her parents were under quarantine and her sister is immunocompromised Ė she had run out of options. ďWe needed groceries, and the wait times for delivery or pick up were over a week long,Ē Ms. Geldart says. She instructed her eight-year-old son and six-year-old daughter to keep their noses and mouths covered with their balaclavas, and keep their winter gloves on.

ďFive separate people stopped me during this trip, only to inform me that my children should not be out,Ē she says. Some comments were gentler than others, but one woman stopped Ms. Geldart and asked her, ďWhat kind of mother wants her children to die?Ē Both Ms. Geldart and her two children were shaken and upset by the exchanges. Her childrenís behaviour was affected by the experience in the coming days and weeks.




How about this LPC riding association chief from Vancouver East:
(https://i.imgur.com/VEmAzjp.png)
Snipers? On streets? In Canada?

You heading to the boat launch?  The only ones around here that are closed are the ones in Provincial Parks, which were all closed.  No hysteria there.  I would presume the ones in Ontario that were closed were due to the party crowds that congregate around ski boats.  They wanted to avoid Covidiots getting together in busy areas. 

You can be certain that people who break social distancing rules in public are breaking social distancing rules in private.  At least if they're doing it in public they can be lectured, dispersed, and even fined.

Here's some nuance you missed Kimmy...   beaches in BC weren't closed because they weren't crowded.  Beaches in Florida had to be closed because they were packed with idiots who weren't following the rules.  You are ignoring a huge difference there.  Did Omni ever propose our beaches be closed? 

Here's some other nuance you missed Kimmy....  you weren't complaining that you weren't allowed to go to a boat ramp...  or a beach...   or out in the woods or to parks...  because you could do all of those things.  You complained about not being able to go to the bar.    ::)

You are ignoring all nuance just for the sake of complaining.  No one here has even argued that boat ramps should be closed!   But you are now fixated on that??  You don't want to go to the bar anymore?

Yes, I'm still very much looking forward to going to the bar.  I was talking about the boat launch because it's such a ludicrous example of stuff being closed for no sensible reason. 

I already talked about this earlier in the thread:
Quote
To me the most exasperating thing about the shutdowns are the one-size-fits-all nature of the shutdown.

It seems ridiculous to me that a venue that seats 20 people is treated the same as a venue that seats 2000 people or 20,000 people.  It seems ridiculous to me that a pottery class is treated the same as a gym or a yoga class.  I don't think a sit-down restaurant poses the same risks as a shopping mall food court. I don't think a neighborhood pub poses the same risks as a packed nightclub with a dance floor full of sweaty people.

(Personal note: I think it's ridiculous that Kim City is treating the kayak club the same as city swimming pools and city fitness centers. Are they afraid the ducks and fish will catch COVID? I don't get it.)

I'm also skeptical that the same measures are necessary in Saskatchewan as in Ontario.  And I'm skeptical that the same measures are necessary in Kenora Ontario as in downtown Toronto.

My kayak being locked up was probably the single stupidest thing I can think of. The kayak club is apparently under the same umbrella of regulation as city swimming pools and gyms. Something like that, I guess. They're finally open.

But since you're so focused on it: yes, I'm still looking forward to the bar. The actual bar countertop might not be open for a long time, but the tables and patios should be able to open fairly soon.  And I will be there.


 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 05, 2020, 12:44:07 am
And I still don't think that kimmy going to the bar killed any old-people.

you are consistently ignorant of the possibility of pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic carriers... in your favoured bar haunts... with a potential to infect oh, say... care-givers, delivery persons, etc.. - or do you screen those types out of your kind of bars?  ;D
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 05, 2020, 12:57:49 am
quit your quibbling! If you're going to take such quibbling exception,

It reads like you're having a stroke here.

the waldo suggests you provide explicit references to delineate when you're talking of B.C. (as is most of your emphasis) and when you're speaking more broadly - you're welcome!

The context of my question was in response to Coonlight's statement that "We're all stuck inside until everyone gets vaccinated."  I don't know or care how you arrived at the conclusion that this pertained just to BC.  Our Prime Minister has said over and over that there's no return to normal without a vaccine, it's clearly a national issue.


as for your continued emphasis on nothing being done until a vaccine is ready, who said so? - name the names, other than yourself. You keep referring to a worst-case "2022 or later" timing; again, who said so? - name the names, other than yourself. Such an alarmist you are!

2022 isn't the worst case. Never is the worst case. MERS appeared in 2012 and they still don't have a vaccine. It took 5 years to create an Ebola vaccine.  12 to 18 months is highly optimistic: (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/)
Quote
Overall, if all pieces fell into place, Hatchett guesses it would be 12 to 18 months before an initial product could be deemed safe and effective. That timeline represents ďa vast acceleration compared with the history of vaccine development,Ē he told me. But itís also unprecedentedly ambitious. ďEven to propose such a timeline at this point must be regarded as hugely aspirational,Ē he added.

Even if that idyllic year-long projection were realized, the novel product would still require manufacturing and distribution. ďAn important consideration is whether the underlying approach can then be scaled to produce millions or even billions of doses in coming years,Ē Hatchett said. Especially in an ongoing emergency, if borders closed and supply chains broke, distribution and production could prove difficult purely as a matter of logistics.

Fauciís initial optimism seemed to wane, too. Last week he said that the process of vaccine development was proving ďvery difficult and very frustrating.Ē For all the advances in basic science, the process cannot proceed to an actual vaccine without extensive clinical testing, which requires manufacturing many vaccines and meticulously monitoring outcomes in people. The process could ultimately cost hundreds of millions of dollarsómoney that the NIH, start-ups, and universities donít have. Nor do they have the production facilities and technology to mass-manufacture and distribute a vaccine.

12 to 18 months, if everything goes well.  Who knows how long if things don't go well. 


by the by, those "typical" range references speak to a year-to-18 months away - that's April 2021-to-October 2021. There's a world-wide focus on developing a vaccine now... the beginnings of an assortment of human trials have commenced. Of course, it will not be easy... and much remains unknown about the virus, notwithstanding what efficacy and effectiveness will be realized. FWIW: Status Report on an assortment of in-development vaccines (https://www.cell.com/immunity/pdf/S1074-7613(20)30120-5.pdf)

The main point, which you missed because you were hung up on what the size limit was, is that we can't ban gatherings of people indefinitely.  Our society can't function for long if even a full bus or classroom is too big of a risk.  A vaccine would be great, but it can't be the lynch-pin upon which everything turns.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 05, 2020, 01:03:12 am
you are consistently ignorant of the possibility of pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic carriers... in your favoured bar haunts... with a potential to infect oh, say... care-givers, delivery persons, etc.. - or do you screen those types out of your kind of bars?  ;D

Asymptomatic carriers are already built into the data we're seeing. They're out there doing their thing already.   So are social distancing cheaters, lapses in hygene, and all sorts of other non-ideal situations. 

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 05, 2020, 01:04:17 am
We've seen waldo ranting about "azzhole joggers" who are going to kill everybody.

such hyperbole on your part! Sure, I can understand why YOU would have no qualms over a number of, a grouping of, azzhole runners passing on your elbow/shoulder while breathing heavily/forcefully and directly exhausting droplets in your immediate area - no biggee, hey!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 05, 2020, 01:07:51 am
Asymptomatic carriers are already built into the data we're seeing. They're out there doing their thing already.   So are social distancing cheaters, lapses in hygene, and all sorts of other non-ideal situations.

the waldo did not know that YOUR built-in data included asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic carriers... and infection transfer in open bars. If bars are open, what are you forever whining about?

the waldo relishes yet another member kimmy OWN-GOAL!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 05, 2020, 01:18:00 am
the waldo did not know that YOUR built-in data included asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic carriers... and infection transfer in open bars. If bars are open, what are you forever whining about?

the waldo relishes yet another member kimmy OWN-GOAL!

Obviously bars aren't open. What a moronic comment. 

What we do know is that the asymptomatic carriers are out amongst us, and yet active cases and hospitalization are falling.  Asymptomatic carriers haven't flooded hospitals with new cases while shopping at grocery stores or liquor stores or hardware stores, and there's no reason to suspect that other kinds of "non-essential" stores pose any greater risk.  We already know that social distancing has been very effective while some sorts of businesses remain open, so expand it to more places.

Bars (the counter top portion) obviously don't permit social distancing, but restaurants and patios with adequate space between patrons would permit social distancing.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 05, 2020, 01:29:27 am
Obviously bars aren't open. What a moronic comment.

the moronic comment... and OWN GOAL was yours! You puffed-up to state asymptomatic carriers were already factored... "baked into the existing data". Which, of course, can't be the case since your favoured bar haunts aren't open! So, quite obviously, you can't presume upon bar infection transfer within current data - ya think!  ;D

What we do know is that the asymptomatic carriers are out amongst us, and yet active cases and hospitalization are falling.  Asymptomatic carriers haven't flooded hospitals with new cases while shopping at grocery stores or liquor stores or hardware stores, and there's no reason to suspect that other kinds of "non-essential" stores pose any greater risk.  We already know that social distancing has been very effective while some sorts of businesses remain open, so expand it to more places.

oh how delicious! Good on ya for recognizing the value/need for social distancing... in helping to contribute to, wait for it, wait for it... reduced infection rates!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 05, 2020, 01:45:38 am
the moronic comment... and OWN GOAL was yours! You puffed-up to state asymptomatic carriers were already factored... "baked into the existing data". Which, of course, can't be the case since your favoured bar haunts aren't open! So, quite obviously, you can't presume upon bar infection transfer within current data - ya think!  ;D

oh how delicious! Good on ya for recognizing the value/need for social distancing... in helping to contribute to, wait for it, wait for it... reduced infection rates!

Well no ****. There's plenty of opportunity to expand things while continuing current social distancing practices.  People know how to social distance while at the liquor store... why do people assume they won't be able to do so while buying clothes?

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 05, 2020, 01:52:30 am
quit your quibbling! If you're going to take such quibbling exception, the waldo suggests you provide explicit references to delineate when you're talking of B.C. (as is most of your emphasis) and when you're speaking more broadly - you're welcome!

as for your continued emphasis on nothing being done until a vaccine is ready, who said so? - name the names, other than yourself. You keep referring to a worst-case "2022 or later" timing; again, who said so? - name the names, other than yourself. Such an alarmist you are!

by the by, those "typical" range references speak to a year-to-18 months away - that's April 2021-to-October 2021. There's a world-wide focus on developing a vaccine now... the beginnings of an assortment of human trials have commenced. Of course, it will not be easy... and much remains unknown about the virus, notwithstanding what efficacy and effectiveness will be realized. FWIW: Status Report on an assortment of in-development vaccines (https://www.cell.com/immunity/pdf/S1074-7613(20)30120-5.pdf)

The main point, which you missed because you were hung up on what the size limit was, is that we can't ban gatherings of people indefinitely.  Our society can't function for long if even a full bus or classroom is too big of a risk.  A vaccine would be great, but it can't be the lynch-pin upon which everything turns.

I asked you in my original reply (as quoted in its entirety above) to name who is maintaining "nothing can be done/changed" until a vaccine is developed. Instead of actually answering that, in your typical disingenuous way, you ignored the request and doubled-down further suggesting/implying I've said as much! Quit making shyte up!

I gave you a list of 6 conditionals (put forward by the WHO) required before restrictions/shutdowns can be eliminated. You ignored the list completely. Of course, one of those conditionals is to have adequate testing in place to respond to "outbreak flair-ups" that may result from removing restrictions... testing and tracing. For all these Republican Governors and Conservative Premiers so hot-to-trot in "opening up", what's the state of adequate/required supporting testing & tracing?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 05, 2020, 02:06:28 am
the moronic comment... and OWN GOAL was yours! You puffed-up to state asymptomatic carriers were already factored... "baked into the existing data". Which, of course, can't be the case since your favoured bar haunts aren't open! So, quite obviously, you can't presume upon bar infection transfer within current data - ya think!  ;D

oh how delicious! Good on ya for recognizing the value/need for social distancing... in helping to contribute to, wait for it, wait for it... reduced infection rates!

Well no ****. There's plenty of opportunity to expand things while continuing current social distancing practices.  People know how to social distance while at the liquor store... why do people assume they won't be able to do so while buying clothes?

again, if those conditionals (which you continue to ignore) are in place...

by the by, you skirt the edges... you never get into particulars/details like... what capacity will your favoured bar be allowed to open at... and, for example, in a sit-down table setting in your favoured bar, what distance must be maintained while sitting at said tables? What special sanitizing will be required? How will enforcement be handled? And on and on and on!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on May 05, 2020, 09:19:24 am
Well no ****. There's plenty of opportunity to expand things while continuing current social distancing practices.  People know how to social distance while at the liquor store... why do people assume they won't be able to do so while buying clothes?

 -k
No stores were mandated closed in BC, very little was. Businesses closed either because they couldnít find a way to meet physical distancing requirements, because there wasnít enough traffic, or they couldnít protect their employees. Things like Costcoís, Canadian Tireís, Walmartís, London Drugs, auto parts, golf courses, home improvement and garden supply stores all found ways to safely stay open. Henry and Dix were just very good at convincing the public to buy in and there is still very little public pressure to quickly open the economy up.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 05, 2020, 10:45:20 am
A reminder that photographs of "crowds" may not be as they seem (https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1700106/photos-foules-distanciation-sociale-angle-trompeur):

(https://images.radio-canada.ca/q_auto,w_960/v1/ici-info/perso/photos-file-sqdc-montreal-longueur-focale-differente.png)

This article also shows this image as an example of how photographers can create a misleading impression:

(https://images.radio-canada.ca/q_auto,w_960/v1/ici-info/perso/photos-gens-parc-laurier-passants-difference.png)

Meanwhile, another CBC article uses that exact photo:
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5554858



 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 05, 2020, 11:01:48 am
A reminder that photographs of "crowds" may not be as they seem:

(https://i.imgur.com/VBEqVW3.jpg)

how does this photo... seem... to you? (from yesterday's Mass State House 'Open Now' protest in Boston)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on May 05, 2020, 11:49:03 am
(https://i.imgur.com/VBEqVW3.jpg)

how does this photo... seem... to you? (from yesterday's Mass State House 'Open Now' protest in Boston)
The world is opening back up again whether you and the rest of you anti-herders like it or not.  Anti-herd is the new anti-vaxx.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: eyeball on May 05, 2020, 01:10:20 pm
Anti-herd is the new anti-vaxx.
Spoken like a true sheeple.

Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on May 05, 2020, 01:20:08 pm
Spoken like a true sheeple.
No, spoken like somebody paying attention to science, and not panic and hysteria.  No go back to hiding under your bed.  Your government overlords insist! 😂
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 05, 2020, 02:08:36 pm
No, spoken like somebody paying attention to science, and not panic and hysteria.  No go back to hiding under your bed.  Your government overlords insist! 😂

Wow....   that has to be the stupidest thing Iíve ever read...  denying there is a pandemic is monumentally stupid.

I deleted more Shady spam from this thread.  No misinformation in the form of stupid pictures is allowed from Shady n my threads.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 05, 2020, 02:16:16 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/VBEqVW3.jpg)

how does this photo... seem... to you? (from yesterday's Mass State House 'Open Now' protest in Boston)

Gee...   I wonder why the USofA is doing so terrible at the whole pandemic spread thing...   ??? 

Rubber bullets and teargas would be the smart way to deal with rabid right wingers who put the endanger the public.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 05, 2020, 02:17:03 pm
The world is opening back up again whether you and the rest of you anti-herders like it or not.  Anti-herd is the new anti-vaxx.

And you're an idiot.  Nothing new about that.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on May 05, 2020, 02:29:37 pm
And you're an idiot.  Nothing new about that.
Whyís that?  Because I recognize the reality of the situation?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 05, 2020, 02:32:06 pm
Whyís that?  Because I recognize the reality of the situation?

Only a complete and utter retard would deny what every medical expert in a pretty much every country is saying.

Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on May 05, 2020, 02:33:04 pm
Wow....   that has to be the stupidest thing Iíve ever read...  denying there is a pandemic is monumentally stupid.

I deleted more Shady spam from this thread.  No misinformation in the form of stupid pictures is allowed from Shady n my threads.
Nobody is denying a pandemic.  But youíre sure denying scientific facts, as well as other facts.  Keep denying the increase in poverty, depression, anxiety, suicide, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and domestic violence.  Itís probably easier to enforce your hysteria based opinions that way.  Btw, did you get your censorship ideas from the Chinese regime?  Theyíd be very proud.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on May 05, 2020, 02:34:14 pm
Only a complete and utter retard would deny what every medical expert in a pretty much every country is saying.
What is every medical expert saying?  Medical experts are behind the phased in guidelines.  They were literally constructed with the input of medical leaders.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 05, 2020, 02:34:17 pm
Nobody is denying a pandemic.  But youíre sure denying scientific facts, as well as other facts.  Keep denying the increase in poverty, depression, anxiety, suicide, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and domestic violence.  Itís probably easier to enforce your hysteria based opinions that way.  Btw, did you get your censorship ideas from the Chinese regime?  Theyíd be very proud.

Yes.  Iím a Chinese spy, like Dr. Tam.  Idiot.  What a bloody buffoon.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 05, 2020, 02:36:12 pm
What is every medical expert saying?  Medical experts are behind the phased in guidelines.  They were literally constructed with the input of medical leaders.

Hahaha

Now you were always for a phase-in....   no one anywhere has argued against a phased approach to reopening.   Now you’re going full-troll....

—————————

I am removing any post of Shady’s that just whines and snivels about censorship.  Stay on topic Shady
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on May 05, 2020, 02:43:12 pm
Hahaha

Now you were always for a phase-in....   no one anywhere has argued against a phased approach to reopening.   Now youíre going full-troll....
I was for opening up but with mitigation and social distancing.  Phased in is the next best thing.  Itís happening whether you like it or not.  Even in Canada.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 05, 2020, 02:44:44 pm
I was for opening up but with mitigation and social distancing.  Phased in is the next best thing.  Itís happening whether you like it or not.  Even in Canada.

Sure you were....    ::)

Except NO ONE is against that.   Duh.   :P ::)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on May 05, 2020, 05:41:44 pm
What is every medical expert saying?  Medical experts are behind the phased in guidelines.  They were literally constructed with the input of medical leaders.
In some places yes. In others, in spite of medical experts.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: eyeball on May 05, 2020, 10:48:11 pm
No, spoken like somebody paying attention to science, and not panic and hysteria.
What panic and hysteria?  The lolly is rolling in, the experts are working on a vaccine, the border to the petri dish south of us is closed, I live on an island where the case number was zero all weekend. The science is working as advertised...where's the downside?  Chances are really  good I'll be able to give my grand-kids a hug in a week or so. Looks like we'll get a little shot of business in July and August and shake out a few cobwebs before buttoning up for fall and winter and hopefully see a vaccine before summer's end in 2021.

No panic, no hysteria, no problemo.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 07, 2020, 09:40:35 pm
Toronto announces ActiveTO plan to get people outdoors and active during the pandemic!

No doubt the waldo and his crack team of researchers will be on the phone with John Tory to explain the dangers of AZZHOLE JOGGERS who be out there killing everybody! Oh the humanity.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on May 07, 2020, 09:44:42 pm
Toronto announces ActiveTO plan to get people outdoors and active during the pandemic!

No doubt the waldo and his crack team of researchers will be on the phone with John Tory to explain the dangers of AZZHOLE JOGGERS who be out there killing everybody! Oh the humanity.

 -k

I bet you own shares in a local funeral home?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 07, 2020, 09:48:06 pm
BC document regarding reopening:

https://www.docdroid.net/xFkCLI4/bc-economic-reopening-plan-pdf/

Including SCIENCY LOOKING GRAPHS for the waldo in regards to modelling. The waldo and his crack researchers can evaluate that section; I'm just a former waitress and wouldn't understand any of that guy-stuff anyway. tee-hee.

Best of all:
(https://i.imgur.com/AiyZvKH.png)

Yes, that's right, pubs and restaurants and cafes will soon be reopening, under guidelines provided by BC Health, and the kimmo will be out on a patio drinking rum out of a coconut before the end of the month.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 07, 2020, 09:52:18 pm
I bet you own shares in a local funeral home?

You are hilarious.   You think you know more than Toronto's chief health officer? You seem to think people going and enjoying the spring weather is going to kill people... I suggest you buy into Toronto funeral homes.  While you're at it, buy into British Columbia funeral homes, because parks and beaches were NEVER closed here, and we have the best COVID-19 data of any large jurisdiction in the world.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 07, 2020, 10:06:28 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/VBEqVW3.jpg)

how does this photo... seem... to you? (from yesterday's Mass State House 'Open Now' protest in Boston)

What about it?  What does some yahoos in the US have to do with phased reopenings in Canada? Why are you so eager to conflate the two?  What's your agenda here?

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 07, 2020, 10:50:57 pm
I asked you in my original reply (as quoted in its entirety above) to name who is maintaining "nothing can be done/changed" until a vaccine is developed.  Instead of actually answering that, in your typical disingenuous way, you ignored the request and doubled-down further suggesting/implying I've said as much! Quit making shyte up!

Our Prime Minister has repeatedly said that there is no return to "normal" without a vaccine. And, as I already mentioned I was replying to Coonlight who had stated "we're all locked inside until there's a vaccine".  Clearly we're not all locked inside. As for returning to "normal"... large sports events and concerts and festivals might be off the table, but we will get to have much of our "normal" back quite soon, vaccine or not.

I gave you a list of 6 conditionals (put forward by the WHO) required before restrictions/shutdowns can be eliminated. You ignored the list completely. Of course, one of those conditionals is to have adequate testing in place to respond to "outbreak flair-ups" that may result from removing restrictions... testing and tracing. For all these Republican Governors and Conservative Premiers so hot-to-trot in "opening up", what's the state of adequate/required supporting testing & tracing?

Conservative premiers like ... BC Premier John Horgan?

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 08, 2020, 12:13:53 am
Including SCIENCY LOOKING GRAPHS for the waldo in regards to modelling. The waldo and his crack researchers can evaluate that section; I'm just a former waitress and wouldn't understand any of that guy-stuff anyway. tee-hee.

I suggest your clear phobia of, as you keep referring to them, "sciency looking graphs"... stems from your inability to ever rise above/beyond the mightySquirrel POS software! In any case, you managed to find a presumed gem in that document but, more importantly, have ya been able to save yourself over your earlier big-time failure in regards interaction versus mobility reduction?  ;D

you really need to get over your phobia of graphs... you keep referring to them as "sciency looking". In the cases you've objected to, they've simply been presentation avenues to impact some semblance of data relationship! In any case, science is your friend member kimmy - don't be afraid it! 

no - not MY {Reports} graphs; those are Google graphs... you know, the company in partnership with B.C. (Centre for Disease Control) to provide collected data to, through analysis and processing, arrive at that stated 30% interaction figure. As by name, the Reports 'Mobility Reduction' represents % change in visits to places (as segmented into 5 overall 'place categories'). The waldo never made your grandiose leap to assume an interaction estimate was based solely upon mobility reduction... that's your idiocy at play; as I stated, "the waldo trusts the data and analysis is there", to support the stated 30% estimate figure. Of course it is - it just doesn't appear to have been publicly released... yet - a release that would allow, of course, independent critical assessment of the data and analysis involved.                 

oh my, member kimmy - oh my!  ;D You've imparted such "who knew" knowledge yet you can't provide any information to answer the original waldo statement/questioning as to the methodology behind the stated 30% interaction figure... a figure which (relative to an upper-bounds 60% figure), so emboldened you as to talk of there being "room to lift restrictions". One would think such emboldenment on your part would be matched with the supporting "how" the estimate was arrived at. So, basically, other than your plaintiveWail... you gots nuthin to suggest how the 30% interaction figure was realized - to understand the methodology that determined the current estimated contact level between British Columbians is at around 30 per cent of normal. Of course, that interaction estimate is based, in part, on the Google sourced mobility reduction data I referenced.

stating the all to obvious (even to you member kimmy, even to you), public confidence in removing current restrictions is key -  how safe will the public feel in terms of accepting the removal of certain restrictions? The key starts with full transparency in how levels of interaction estimates are arrived at; including transparency that can be imparted to a layperson level.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on May 08, 2020, 12:19:52 am
Hey all we have to do is follow trump's lead, stop this damn testing thingamabob, then the positive rates will go down and we can all go back to work. I'm so glad I don't fly the provincial air ambulance these days.

whew
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 08, 2020, 12:37:25 am
Yes, that's right, pubs and restaurants and cafes will soon be reopening, under guidelines provided by BC Health, and the kimmo will be out on a patio drinking rum out of a coconut before the end of the month.

oh my - weren't you the one who whined because members were hurtin' your fee-fees over your misplaced bar-hopping emphasis? Given there seems to be real concern/trepidation coming from restaurant associations and individual restaurant/bar owners about opening up:
- under strict reduced capacity constraints... to the point it may not be financially feasible for some
- that it may be too soon to open given significant doubt the general public is ready to trust their personal safety in the face of uncertain risks
- that, notwithstanding impacts on capacity limits, physical distancing requirements have the real possibility of causing widespread plexiglass barriers to significantly change the "vibe/feel" of an establishment... to further reduce member kimmy's perceived bar-rush!

instead of your exuberant zeal over getting back on your favourite bar stool, your fellow member bros were hoping you might weigh in on the "new reality" of what opening actually means... to owners and patrons!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 08, 2020, 12:43:22 am
What about it?  What does some yahoos in the US have to do with phased reopenings in Canada? Why are you so eager to conflate the two?  What's your agenda here?

clearly a most inconvenient image for you - yes? The point was to emphasize how many will outright ignore presumptive opening restrictions... regardless of what country. C'mon, we see it every day right now as it is, with the most ignorant and uncaring people oblivious to the need to adhere to restrictions now - let alone with the beginnings of phased openings.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Bubbermiley on May 08, 2020, 06:10:10 am


Yes, that's right, pubs and restaurants and cafes will soon be reopening, under guidelines provided by BC Health, and the kimmo will be out on a patio drinking rum out of a coconut before the end of the month.

 -k
They're already open in Winnipeg because our numbers are at zero. I can even go get a haircut or a massage. Most people still aren't interested in going though because they don't want to spread the virus and kill their families.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 08, 2020, 05:00:31 pm
Apparently, some hair people donít think itís safe to open their industry in BC. 

https://www.change.org/p/government-of-british-columbia-to-the-government-of-british-columbia-do-not-single-out-hairstylists-in-phase-two

Quote
Hairstylists and Barbers are members of the Personal Service Industry, where social distancing is not possible.
 We are calling on the B.C. government not to include hairstylists and barbers in the first phase of economic reopening.
 
 Our government has made incredible strides in controlling the spread of COVID-19 and must understand that a decision to reopen salons first would put our communities and economy at greater risk than benefit. We hope that businesses who operate in as close proximity to the public as nurses continue to remain closed at this time.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on May 08, 2020, 05:31:13 pm
Apparently, some hair people donít think itís safe to open their industry in BC. 

https://www.change.org/p/government-of-british-columbia-to-the-government-of-british-columbia-do-not-single-out-hairstylists-in-phase-two

Well it wouldn't be the first time I've had to cut my own hair. Last time was while I was stuck way up in the high arctic with a job that just wouldn't end, so I whacked away. The funny part was when I did get back south and into a barbers chair and he asked me who cut my hair last time. Apparently I botched up the back pretty good. 
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 09, 2020, 05:36:48 pm
3000 people die on 9/11.  Crazy people be like:  "Let's blow up the middle east and torture people".

70,000+ people die from COVID.  Crazy people be like:  "I want my haircuts let's go back to work"

3000 people die on 9/11.  Crazy people be like:  "Warrantless mass surveillance to protect us please, I have nothing to hide".

70,000+ people die from COVID.  Crazy people be like:  "Let me go to the beach"
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: eyeball on May 09, 2020, 06:01:44 pm
BC document regarding reopening:

https://www.docdroid.net/xFkCLI4/bc-economic-reopening-plan-pdf/

Including SCIENCY LOOKING GRAPHS for the waldo in regards to modelling. The waldo and his crack researchers can evaluate that section; I'm just a former waitress and wouldn't understand any of that guy-stuff anyway. tee-hee.

Best of all:

Yes, that's right, pubs and restaurants and cafes will soon be reopening, under guidelines provided by BC Health, and the kimmo will be out on a patio drinking rum out of a coconut before the end of the month.

 -k

Goddamn it...

Quote
Coronavirus: Germany, South Korea report new cases as countries ease restrictions

In South Korea, where a decline in new cases had prompted the government to loosen up, Seoul shut down thousands of nightclubs, hostess bars and discos after dozens of infections were linked to clubgoers who went out last weekend as the country relaxed its social-distancing guidelines.

Many of the infections were linked to a 29-year-old man who visited three nightclubs before testing positive.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6924803/coronavirus-south-korea-pakistan/

**** virus, I hate its **** guts.

I need another beer.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 12, 2020, 12:23:22 am
clearly a most inconvenient image for you - yes?

Not in the least.

The point was to emphasize how many will outright ignore presumptive opening restrictions... regardless of what country. C'mon, we see it every day right now as it is, with the most ignorant and uncaring people oblivious to the need to adhere to restrictions now - let alone with the beginnings of phased openings.

People who ignore restrictions will continue to ignore restrictions, but businesses that want to reopen will have to respect the rules for reopening or they'll be fined and shut down. 

The notion that phased reopenings will cause mass demonstrations of yahoos is ridiculous.

We had one of those anti-lockdown rallies here, under 10 people showed up.  They couldn't even raise enough people to constitute an illegal gathering.


 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 12, 2020, 12:25:08 am
3000 people die on 9/11.  Crazy people be like:  "Let's blow up the middle east and torture people".

70,000+ people die from COVID.  Crazy people be like:  "I want my haircuts let's go back to work"

3000 people die on 9/11.  Crazy people be like:  "Warrantless mass surveillance to protect us please, I have nothing to hide".

70,000+ people die from COVID.  Crazy people be like:  "Let me go to the beach"

People are already going to the beach.  Our chief provincial health officer was encouraging people to go to the beach. She wants people to go out and enjoy the fresh air. It's good for you.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 12, 2020, 12:36:35 am
I suggest your clear phobia of, as you keep referring to them, "sciency looking graphs"... stems from your inability to ever rise above/beyond the mightySquirrel POS software!

That you persist with that line of trolling says a lot about you as a person, and what it says is not flattering.

In any case, you managed to find a presumed gem in that document but, more importantly, have ya been able to save yourself over your earlier big-time failure in regards interaction versus mobility reduction?  ;D

The failure was yours!  You sought to counter the BC ministry of health's data regarding contacts by posting a graph depicting mobility, and when your blunder was pointed out to you, you went on a pout about having not been provided with BC Health's methodology.  That you're now attempting to spin your oops into a triumph is the most ridiculous, most waldoish thing possible. Keep patting yourself on the back for your imaginary triumphs, loldo! "Self high five!"

(https://i.imgur.com/tFWTxPZ.png)



 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on May 12, 2020, 12:38:32 am
Open up doors to businesses and also make sure you widen the doors to your hospitals. Texas has already shown how that works.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 12, 2020, 01:06:55 am
The failure was yours!  You sought to counter the BC ministry of health's data regarding contacts by posting a graph depicting mobility, and when your blunder was pointed out to you, you went on a pout about having not been provided with BC Health's methodology.  That you're now attempting to spin your oops into a triumph is the most ridiculous, most waldoish thing possible. Keep patting yourself on the back for your imaginary triumphs, loldo! "Self high five!"

quit making shyte up! This is exactly what I stated:
the waldo trusts the data and analysis is there; however, my crack research team hasn't found it... sure, sure, the Google COVID-19 Community Mobility Reports are readily available, but just how has the B.C. Health Authority used them to arrive at that current 30% level of interaction figure?

there was no, as you say, waldo counter attempt, there was no waldo blunder, there was no waldo pout. What I most certainly did... and have subsequently done repeatedly, is to highlight and emphasize you haven't a clue as to how that claimed 30% interaction figure was arrived at. And you still don't!

most pointedly, you blindly accepted that 30% figure while claiming there was significant latitude to extend upon it... to the implied point that you'd be back on your favourite bar stool in no time. As for the mightly Squirrel, the waldo is having second thoughts that you'd even be able to master it!  ;D

quit making shyte up, hey member kimmy!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 13, 2020, 12:55:00 pm
a 3-hour freeedom wait is nuthin when ya wants some ole' Red Lobster! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1260052412263432193/pu/vid/608x1080/zWUMHmub1W3ELd1z.mp4)


(https://i.imgur.com/AyvsUkk.png)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 13, 2020, 11:39:54 pm
member Shady, is this more of what you keep calling "panic p*orn"? (https://i.imgur.com/662teYl.mp4)

Quote
Video from Japan aims to show how easily germs and viruses can spread in restaurants when just one person is infected.

As simulated, the video shows 10 people coming into the restaurant, with one singled out as the "infected" person. Each participant goes about the buffet as they normally would, not considering a potential contamination.

At the end of the video, the participants are cast under black lights illuminating where the "infection" has spread.

The substance, used to signify the germs, can be seen on food, serving utensils and platters, and even on the faces of some of the participants.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 15, 2020, 11:47:53 am
anti-vaxers were always present in the protests against 'lockdowns'... but now showing up with greater numbers and a more focused/organized assembly. From a Long Island, New York protest - yesterday:

(https://i.imgur.com/pBH2Xxp.jpg)

ya ya, Bill Gates - a veryBadMan! Imagine, refusing to take a COVID-19 vaccine during a pandemic!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on May 15, 2020, 01:56:10 pm
Teenís suicide prompts fears pandemic is worsening mental health issues in northern Sask.
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1738226755727

Her blood is on the hands of the lockdown nuts.  Doesn't matter though, as long as some 80 year old gets another year or two out of life, that's all that matters!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on May 15, 2020, 02:01:10 pm
Teenís suicide prompts fears pandemic is worsening mental health issues in northern Sask.
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1738226755727

Her blood is on the hands of the lockdown nuts.  Doesn't matter though, as long as some 80 year old gets another year or two out of life, that's all that matters!

So you figure rushing out to take your chances with a killer virus would be a better approach. Right shady, got ya. Silly a susual.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 15, 2020, 02:09:58 pm
These aren't 80 year olds, so who gives a crap whether they die right?  Blood on the hands of the lockdown nuts.

Teenís suicide prompts fears pandemic is worsening mental health issues in northern Sask

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1738226755727
Teenís suicide prompts fears pandemic is worsening mental health issues in northern Sask.
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1738226755727

Her blood is on the hands of the lockdown nuts.  Doesn't matter though, as long as some 80 year old gets another year or two out of life, that's all that matters!

member Shady, why are you posting the same thing in multiple threads? - stop it! There's such a thing as tooooooooooMuchShady!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 15, 2020, 02:35:53 pm
Teenís suicide prompts fears pandemic is worsening mental health issues in northern Sask.
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1738226755727

Her blood is on the hands of the lockdown nuts.  Doesn't matter though, as long as some 80 year old gets another year or two out of life, that's all that matters!

What a maroon.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 15, 2020, 02:36:40 pm
BTW, the CFR in Canada is around 7%....that's **** terrifying. Go **** yourself.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on May 15, 2020, 03:45:27 pm
So you figure rushing out to take your chances with a killer virus would be a better approach. Right shady, got ya. Silly a susual.
There you go again.  I never said anything about rushing out.  I've advocated for reopening with mitigation and distancing measures.  When are you people going to give up on the strawman arguments?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on May 15, 2020, 03:46:17 pm
BTW, the CFR in Canada is around 7%....that's **** terrifying. Go **** yourself.
Complete nonsense.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on May 15, 2020, 03:50:41 pm
BTW, the CFR in Canada is around 7%....that's **** terrifying. Go **** yourself.
These are actual fatality rates based on age, based off scientific data.  We should all be embracing science, not panic p*orn.[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 15, 2020, 06:56:40 pm
These are actual fatality rates based on age, based off scientific data.  We should all be embracing science, not panic p*orn. (Attachment Link)

Old people matter dude - the CFR in Canada for confirmed cases stands at 7%.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 15, 2020, 07:48:04 pm
Old people matter dude - the CFR in Canada for confirmed cases stands at 7%.

(https://i.imgur.com/2igwoQG.png)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 15, 2020, 08:02:48 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/2igwoQG.png)

So the fatality rate for the US is below Canada's and the global average.  Just reporting the news!

So what have you been complaining about the last several weeks?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 15, 2020, 08:04:28 pm
There you go again.  I never said anything about rushing out.  I've advocated for reopening with mitigation and distancing measures.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Bubbermiley on May 15, 2020, 08:53:34 pm
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW!
Yes, but how can you stake out political turf if you don't manufacture a left/right divide? Haven't you learned anything from abortion and climate change? Even if we all agree, it's important to pretend we are fundamentally opposed to each other.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on May 16, 2020, 01:21:58 am
'Vaccine or no vaccine, we're back" What the **** does that mean and how **** retarded can this idiot continue to show he is? Hate to say it but maybe if he gets infected and dies the world would be better off.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 16, 2020, 02:08:20 pm
Yes, but how can you stake out political turf if you don't manufacture a left/right divide? Haven't you learned anything from abortion and climate change? Even if we all agree, it's important to pretend we are fundamentally opposed to each other.

This thread started with the notion that if you support reducing restrictions you're literally trying to kill grandma, and has been full of comparisons of Canadians in favor of reduced restrictions with American gun-toting "patriots".  It seems like your observation is weeks overdue.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 17, 2020, 12:10:18 am
So the fatality rate for the US is below Canada's and the global average.  Just reporting the news!

So what have you been complaining about the last several weeks?

the waldo simply chirped in with CFR reference data. Of course any country comparisons presume upon representative conditions being legitimately comparable; in regards Case Fatality Rate, testing is the critical factor in determining number of cases. Do you interpret the testing regimens of Canada versus the United States to be... comparable? Which respective country's testing effort has been denigrated to the point of labeling it a veritable shyte-show from day one?

in any case, another ratio relied upon within epidemiology is Mortality Rate: in this case, the frequency of COVID-19 related death in a population. Just on a straight number basis per 1 million population: U.S. => 272 deaths; Canada => 151
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on May 17, 2020, 01:27:11 pm
the waldo simply chirped in with CFR reference data. Of course any country comparisons presume upon representative conditions being legitimately comparable; in regards Case Fatality Rate, testing is the critical factor in determining number of cases. Do you interpret the testing regimens of Canada versus the United States to be... comparable? Which respective country's testing effort has been denigrated to the point of labeling it a veritable shyte-show from day one?

in any case, another ratio relied upon within epidemiology is Mortality Rate: in this case, the frequency of COVID-19 related death in a population. Just on a straight number basis per 1 million population: U.S. => 272 deaths; Canada => 151



Itís slowly narrowing though. It was over 2.5 to one, now it is 1.8 to one.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: MH on May 18, 2020, 07:02:53 pm
https://www.christianpost.com/news/georgia-church-closes-two-weeks-after-reopening-as-families-come-down-with-coronavirus-236899/?

back to CHURCH in GA. 

"GOD WILL PROTECT US FROM THE PLAGUE"

God: "Um have you seen my previous work?"

Church shuts due to Covid 19...
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 18, 2020, 10:30:27 pm
Report: Texas sees highest, single-day increase in COVID-19 cases on Saturday (https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2020/05/17/report-texas-sees-highest-single-day-increase-in-covid-19-cases-on-saturday/)

The pandemicís next blow: Over 1 million Texans will lose health insurance (https://www.dallasnews.com/business/health-care/2020/05/17/the-pandemics-next-blow-over-1-million-texans-will-lose-health-insurance/?utm_content=buffer216f1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer) --- Half who lose their jobs and employer health plans are expected to go without coverage ó far worse than the rest of the U.S.

Quote
The worst is about to get worse.

In Texas, where 5 million people already go without health insurance, nearly 1.2 million more are projected to join their ranks ó far more than any other state.

Thatís the estimated collateral damage from the coronavirus recession, assuming the national unemployment rate hits 20%, according to a recent Urban Institute report. Some believe the real jobless number for April may already be that high.

In that scenario, 25 million adults and children in the U.S. are expected to lose employer-sponsored health insurance. The vast majority ó 7 in 10 nationwide ó will get coverage elsewhere, the study estimated.

But in Texas, just 1 in 2 are projected to be covered, which would be the lowest share among the states.

The surge in uninsured arrives while COVID-19 is still raging and states are struggling to restart their economies safely.

(https://i.imgur.com/yhLdDRk.png)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 20, 2020, 11:29:03 am
not a f'n sheep! And I'm not doing it because I woke up in a free country! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1262334990127226882/pu/vid/720x1244/yzgOtgq6qECzee32.mp4)

Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on May 20, 2020, 05:47:15 pm
not a f'n sheep! And I'm not doing it because I woke up in a free country! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1262334990127226882/pu/vid/720x1244/yzgOtgq6qECzee32.mp4)
No shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service. Adios dumbass. ;D
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Bubbermiley on May 20, 2020, 09:39:56 pm
It seems if we only started with the social distancing a little earlier, we would be better able to start opening things up. Manitoba had the advantage of extra time because of our natural physical distancing. We had a couple of hundred cases identified in the first 2 weeks after shutdown, but they were all recent international travellers and they managed to contain them. Since then we've been near zero, with one small outbreak from a truck driver in Brandon. If we keep our borders shut, we can carefully resume business.
North Dakota, by comparison, has been steady 30, 40, 50...now over 100 new cases a day. Once it's established,  it seems really hard to get rid of, especially if people don't take it seriously. It is obviously going to spread widely in the U.S. now, so I don't know how long we can continue to keep it out.
Next time, they need to quarantine all international travellers as soon as they discover human to human transmission in a novel virus. Seems like a no-brainer now.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 20, 2020, 11:08:40 pm
Next time, they need to quarantine all international travellers as soon as they discover human to human transmission in a novel virus. Seems like a no-brainer now.

I don't know why this wasn't done.  We weren't even screening people.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 20, 2020, 11:27:04 pm
I don't know why this wasn't done.  We weren't even screening people.

Screening still is of questionable effect. Mandatory quarantine of returning travelers will now be the go to solution, because it actually works.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 24, 2020, 09:20:17 am
Why would anyone ever close a boat launch or a dock?

https://twitter.com/scottpasmoretv/status/1264394565861232640?s=21
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 24, 2020, 11:09:05 am
That's a pool and what looks like a restaurant.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 24, 2020, 12:51:14 pm
Why would anyone ever close a boat launch or a dock?

https://twitter.com/scottpasmoretv/status/1264394565861232640?s=21

Donít have to go that far to see the #covidiots congregate...

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2020/5/23/1_4951997.html
Quote
Thousands of people packed Trinity Bellwoods Park, located near Queen Street West and Ossington Avenue, despite repeated calls from public health officials to avoid large gatherings as Ontario continues to see a rise of new COVID-19 cases after being on the decline for weeks.

Speaking to CP24 on Saturday evening, Toronto Mayor John Tory said he was disappointed to see the crowds at the downtown park not following physical distancing by-laws.

Way to go T.O.!!  Now when these people do go back to work, as things slowly open up, they will be able to spread the virus around nicely!


(The Ďoldí tag was an accident)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 24, 2020, 01:19:07 pm
That's a pool and what looks like a restaurant.

Yes, at a boat launch and docking facility.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 24, 2020, 01:19:32 pm
Why would anyone ever close a boat launch or a dock?

https://twitter.com/scottpasmoretv/status/1264394565861232640?s=21

It's the Ozarks.  It's Trump Country. The mean IQ is below 75.  That's the kind of area where people who think it's a hoax live.  Those people are out in public showing complete disregard for social distancing... do you think they'd be acting any different if you closed the pool?  They'd go party somewhere else.

And to be fair, it's also the kind of area where the pandemic has made little impact anyway.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 24, 2020, 01:25:23 pm
Donít have to go that far to see the #covidiots congregate...

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2020/5/23/1_4951997.html
Way to go T.O.!!  Now when these people do go back to work, as things slowly open up, they will be able to spread the virus around nicely!


(The Ďoldí tag was an accident)

It seems to me like the whole video was shot from an angle that intentionally makes it look like people are closer than they actually are, and I have to ask why they would do that.


Reminder: (https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1700106/photos-foules-distanciation-sociale-angle-trompeur)
(https://images.radio-canada.ca/q_auto,w_960/v1/ici-info/perso/photos-file-sqdc-montreal-longueur-focale-differente.png)

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on May 24, 2020, 01:44:12 pm
Yes, at a boat launch and docking facility.

So leaving the boat launch closed would accomplish absolutely nothing. Oh, the beach is crowded, let's close the boat launch down the street so all the would be boaters have to use this beach instead of going out in their boats.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on May 24, 2020, 01:45:49 pm
It seems to me like the whole video was shot from an angle that intentionally makes it look like people are closer than they actually are, and I have to ask why they would do that.


Reminder: (https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1700106/photos-foules-distanciation-sociale-angle-trompeur)
(https://images.radio-canada.ca/q_auto,w_960/v1/ici-info/perso/photos-file-sqdc-montreal-longueur-focale-differente.png)

 -k

Pick the right angle and use a telephoto lens. Compresses things beautifully.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 24, 2020, 02:27:59 pm
quit making shyte up! This is exactly what I stated:
there was no, as you say, waldo counter attempt, there was no waldo blunder, there was no waldo pout. What I most certainly did... and have subsequently done repeatedly, is to highlight and emphasize you haven't a clue as to how that claimed 30% interaction figure was arrived at. And you still don't!

I don't need to see their work.  I'm not qualified to analyze their conclusions (and neither are you.)

I trust our scientists.  I thought you were one of the ones who said "trust our experts".  But it seems like you only trust China's experts.  Now that Canadian health experts have moved past the extreme caution of the early days, you're having a sad.  I can only imagine why. 

most pointedly, you blindly accepted that 30% figure while claiming there was significant latitude to extend upon it...

The claim that there was latitude to increase interaction comes from BC's very excellent health experts, not from kimmy. I am merely relaying their message.  I'm sorry that makes you sad.


to the implied point that you'd be back on your favourite bar stool in no time.

And indeed I was!  Thursday and Friday I was able to return to some of my favorite places and even take the missus out for dinner! It was a delight.

I also had a hair appointment Thursday and am feeling fabulous!

As for the mightly Squirrel, the waldo is having second thoughts that you'd even be able to master it!  ;D

In a country where even a snowboard instructor can be Prime Minister, I'm proud of my work history!

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 24, 2020, 03:02:27 pm
Yes, at a boat launch and docking facility.

Open the boat launch and docks, close the pool and restaurant/bar.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 24, 2020, 03:07:11 pm
Open the boat launch and docks, close the pool and restaurant/bar.

This is such a genius idea! It's like you're from the future or something!

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 24, 2020, 03:12:42 pm
So leaving the boat launch closed would accomplish absolutely nothing. Oh, the beach is crowded, let's close the boat launch down the street so all the would be boaters have to use this beach instead of going out in their boats.
It seems to me like the whole video was shot from an angle that intentionally makes it look like people are closer than they actually are, and I have to ask why they would do that.





So the police, the city and the health officials who are commenting about these particular parks are all in on a grand conspiracy to make it LOOK like people are gathered too close.

You've turned into conspiratards because it doesn't match your preferred narrative!   ::)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 24, 2020, 03:34:42 pm
So the police, the city and the health officials who are commenting about these particular parks are all in on a grand conspiracy to make it LOOK like people are gathered too close.

You've turned into conspiratards because it doesn't match your narrative!   ::)

There may well have been instances of people breaking the guidelines. The mayor says that enforcement will be out to keep an eye on things. Educate people, hand out some tickets, fair enough.

I wanted to point out that they keep using these same long-angle telephoto shots that create a misleading impression.  If there are real issues, the media shouldn't need to use misleading photography in their reporting.  I think they've decided that pandemic panic generates more clicks than "most people are following the rules."

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: MH on May 24, 2020, 03:37:39 pm
I wanted to point out that they keep using these same long-angle telephoto shots that create a misleading impression.  If there are real issues, the media shouldn't need to use misleading photography in their reporting.  I think they've decided that pandemic panic generates more clicks than "most people are following the rules."

 -k

Yes... but that wasn't the case for Trinity Bellwoods Toronto.  My friend drove by (taking his cat in) and said it was just packed.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on May 24, 2020, 03:39:06 pm
There may well have been instances of people breaking the guidelines. The mayor says that enforcement will be out to keep an eye on things. Educate people, hand out some tickets, fair enough.

I wanted to point out that they keep using these same long-angle telephoto shots that create a misleading impression.  If there are real issues, the media shouldn't need to use misleading photography in their reporting.  I think they've decided that pandemic panic generates more clicks than "most people are following the rules."

 -k

Dead people are real issues. Don't sound so Trumpian!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 24, 2020, 03:43:14 pm
Yes... but that wasn't the case for Trinity Bellwoods Toronto.  My friend drove by (taking his cat in) and said it was just packed.

Your friend is in on it!!!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on May 24, 2020, 04:11:52 pm
So the police, the city and the health officials who are commenting about these particular parks are all in on a grand conspiracy to make it LOOK like people are gathered too close.

You've turned into conspiratards because it doesn't match your preferred narrative!   ::)

From the lines I have been in, I would have to say people have been good about keeping their distance. You get the odd one who either doesn't care or brain dead but for the most part they have been good.

Long lenses really mess with depth perception, things that are miles apart can look quite close to each other.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: bcsapper on May 24, 2020, 04:44:52 pm
There may well have been instances of people breaking the guidelines. The mayor says that enforcement will be out to keep an eye on things. Educate people, hand out some tickets, fair enough.

I wanted to point out that they keep using these same long-angle telephoto shots that create a misleading impression.  If there are real issues, the media shouldn't need to use misleading photography in their reporting.  I think they've decided that pandemic panic generates more clicks than "most people are following the rules."

 -k

Apparently, by calling out a photographic trick by a lazy reporter, you want people to die.  And people call you a conspiritard!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 24, 2020, 04:53:51 pm
Apparently, by calling out a photographic trick by a lazy reporter, you want people to die.  And people call you a conspiritard!
From the lines I have been in, I would have to say people have been good about keeping their distance. You get the odd one who either doesn't care or brain dead but for the most part they have been good.

Long lenses really mess with depth perception, things that are miles apart can look quite close to each other.

Where did I say anything about lines?  I am talking about specific instances in specific parks and the concerns of the City, the police and of medical experts who are commenting on what they've seen.

Do you two have different information that this never happened?  Do you think all these organizations are in on a conspiracy to make it look as if this is happening when it isn't? 

Help me to understand your view on this.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: bcsapper on May 24, 2020, 04:57:32 pm
Help me to understand your view on this.

It's on the same page, just a few posts above. 

"You've turned into conspiratards because it doesn't match your preferred narrative!"
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 24, 2020, 06:36:23 pm
The failure was yours!  You sought to counter the BC ministry of health's data regarding contacts by posting a graph depicting mobility, and when your blunder was pointed out to you, you went on a pout about having not been provided with BC Health's methodology.  That you're now attempting to spin your oops into a triumph is the most ridiculous, most waldoish thing possible. Keep patting yourself on the back for your imaginary triumphs, loldo! "Self high five!"

quit making shyte up! This is exactly what I stated:
the waldo trusts the data and analysis is there; however, my crack research team hasn't found it... sure, sure, the Google COVID-19 Community Mobility Reports are readily available, but just how has the B.C. Health Authority used them to arrive at that current 30% level of interaction figure?

there was no, as you say, waldo counter attempt, there was no waldo blunder, there was no waldo pout. What I most certainly did... and have subsequently done repeatedly, is to highlight and emphasize you haven't a clue as to how that claimed 30% interaction figure was arrived at. And you still don't!

I don't need to see their work.  I'm not qualified to analyze their conclusions (and neither are you.)

I trust our scientists.  I thought you were one of the ones who said "trust our experts".  But it seems like you only trust China's experts.  Now that Canadian health experts have moved past the extreme caution of the early days, you're having a sad.  I can only imagine why.

mine was the most innocuous comment - a simple statement that asked (as quoted above) just how has the B.C. Health Authority used the Google COVID-19 Mobility Reports to arrive at the stated 30% level of interaction figure? And that simple question caused yet another mega member kimmy wigOut including a failed attempt to claim I was trying to counter the figure... that I supposedly blundered in doing so... and that I went into a "pout" over your pompous claims! None of which is accurate. Per your norm, you turned tail and NOW... NOW... dredge up post exchanges that aren't even topical now! ;D You really should know when to go silent!

and per your norm you eventually resorted to making shyte up. Clearly you feel most comfortable as a shroom; again, you blindly accepted a figure that your claimed experts never provided information/data in how it was determined.

and now another member kimmy tell: your statement about the waldo only trusting China's experts shows you're clearly flailing and flummoxed!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 24, 2020, 06:52:04 pm
most pointedly, you blindly accepted that 30% figure while claiming there was significant latitude to extend upon it... to the implied point that you'd be back on your favourite bar stool in no time.

And indeed I was! Thursday and Friday I was able to return to some of my favorite places and even take the missus out for dinner! It was a delight

you can't hide your initial statements that clearly showed you had less concern for COVID-19 infected persons... even those that died... than for your most selfish and uncaring need/want to get back in the bar-stool saddle!  ;D

as for the mightly Squirrel, the waldo is having second thoughts that you'd even be able to master it!

In a country where even a snowboard instructor can be Prime Minister, I'm proud of my work history!

PM Trudeau continuing to live rent free in member kimmy's head - perfect! You're a poser; one often showcasing the Dunning-Kruger effect... but hey, you try hard!  ;D
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 24, 2020, 08:17:02 pm
So leaving the boat launch closed would accomplish absolutely nothing. Oh, the beach is crowded, let's close the boat launch down the street so all the would be boaters have to use this beach instead of going out in their boats.

It wasn't down the street.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 24, 2020, 08:18:36 pm
Open the boat launch and docks, close the pool and restaurant/bar.

Or, in areas of relatively high infection rate, leave them all closed. In Manitoba, we have 17 active cases now. We can start to open things carefully. Ontario and so many other places really shouldn't be at this point.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on May 24, 2020, 08:36:30 pm
It wasn't down the street.
So, what does it have to do with boating. Anyway, they are opening in BC. Provincial parks now, Hydro boat launches June 1.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on May 24, 2020, 08:50:48 pm
So, what does it have to do with boating. Anyway, they are opening in BC. Provincial parks now, Hydro boat launches June 1.

Yes - because BC, like Manitoba and Atlantic Canada, has a very low case load, with declining active cases. 

Missouri on the other hand has reported at 11,752 confirmed COVID-19 cases and 676 deaths.

These things are not the same, and should not be treated the same.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 24, 2020, 10:15:37 pm
Or, in areas of relatively high infection rate, leave them all closed. In Manitoba, we have 17 active cases now. We can start to open things carefully. Ontario and so many other places really shouldn't be at this point.

As long as you're social distancing I don't see how a boat launch or a dock or boating itself would do any harm.  Maybe if you had a boat that was packed, but you can pack a car just as easy.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 24, 2020, 11:52:26 pm
Open the boat launch and docks, close the pool and restaurant/bar.

its called a destination point: Backwater Jacks Bar & Grill, Osage Beach - Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri... if you close the destination, they will not come! (notice the docks ConspiracyG - didja?)

(https://i.imgur.com/9TQWa6f.png)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 25, 2020, 12:20:23 am
there was no, as you say, waldo counter attempt, there was no waldo blunder, there was no waldo pout. What I most certainly did... and have subsequently done repeatedly, is to highlight and emphasize you haven't a clue as to how that claimed 30% interaction figure was arrived at. And you still don't!

I'm completely comfortable with their claim of a 30% figure. You yourself provided the chart demonstrating 50% less mobility; 50% mobility combined with significantly reduced interactions per trip makes the 30% figure entirely unsurprising.  As I said, I don't need to see their work; I trust our experts.  You used to say trust our experts, until they started saying stuff that disagreed with your preferred narrative, and now you're the new Fox Mulder. "Trust no one! The truth is out there!"

mine was the most innocuous comment - a simple statement that asked (as quoted above) just how has the B.C. Health Authority used the Google COVID-19 Mobility Reports to arrive at the stated 30% level of interaction figure?

Why do you find it so difficult to believe? Given the 50% mobility figure combined with the social distancing measures in place, elimination of large gatherings, plexiglass shields at every cash register, and so on... why is the 30% estimate they've provided so difficult for you to believe?   And what qualifications, sources of data, and other insights do you possess that make your approval of their methodology meaningful to anybody?

And that simple question caused yet another mega member kimmy wigOut including a failed attempt to claim I was trying to counter the figure... that I supposedly blundered in doing so... and that I went into a "pout" over your pompous claims!

Reminder, the claims are not mine, they're from Dr Henry and her excellent staff.   So you're not trying to counter their figures? Then what is your issue exactly? 

None of which is accurate. Per your norm, you turned tail and NOW... NOW... dredge up post exchanges that aren't even topical now! ;D You really should know when to go silent!

I have a busy life. I can't be here to tend to your issues full time. I can imagine that with so little to occupy your time you must be eager for my replies, but you will need to be patient. I will get to you when I get to you.


and per your norm you eventually resorted to making shyte up. Clearly you feel most comfortable as a shroom; again, you blindly accepted a figure that your claimed experts never provided information/data in how it was determined.

and now another member kimmy tell: your statement about the waldo only trusting China's experts shows you're clearly flailing and flummoxed!

The waldo had been happily parroting everything that came down the pike, from China, from the WHO, from Dr Tam, from JT And The Sunshine Gang... You were the Head Sheep among the Sheeple!  But now that Dr Henry and others have endorsed reopening, the waldo is now Mr Skeptic.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 25, 2020, 12:33:44 am
you can't hide your initial statements that clearly showed you had less concern for COVID-19 infected persons... even those that died...

You continue to demonstrate that your reading comprehension skills are as abysmal as your writing skills.

than for your most selfish and uncaring need/want to get back in the bar-stool saddle!  ;D

I refuse to apologize for being happy.  I refused to apologize for getting on with my life.  Sitting at home and sulking isn't going to bring anybody back from the dead.

PM Trudeau continuing to live rent free in member kimmy's head - perfect! 

I find the cognitive dissonance delightful.

the waldo: "Your ideas aren't valuable because you used to be a waitress!"

also the waldo: "the former snowboard instructor is bigly qualified to be Prime Minister!"

You continually mock my background, yet your champion, your hero, your idol, is... the snowboard guy. That's **** hilarious. You're hilarious.

You're a poser; one often showcasing the Dunning-Kruger effect... but hey, you try hard!  ;D

You're so triggered by me because I'm one of the few here who won't indulge your delusions of grandeur.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 25, 2020, 12:56:46 am
So the police, the city and the health officials who are commenting about these particular parks are all in on a grand conspiracy to make it LOOK like people are gathered too close.

You've turned into conspiratards because it doesn't match your preferred narrative!   ::)

Okay, let's look at some screenshots from the video you linked.

A misleading angle...
(https://i.imgur.com/WaOvGiP.png)

A misleading angle...
(https://i.imgur.com/YkpJgiN.png)

 ...a moment later when the couple in the foreground has left, you can see that everybody is 2m apart.
(https://i.imgur.com/l6z42k2.png)

Another misleading angle...
(https://i.imgur.com/gOQHVV9.png)

Another misleading angle...
(https://i.imgur.com/SfmeW9k.png)

Another misleading angle...
(https://i.imgur.com/jmRKgKm.png)

Get what I'm saying?

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 25, 2020, 01:13:45 am
I'm completely comfortable with their claim of a 30% figure. You yourself provided the chart demonstrating 50% less mobility; 50% mobility combined with significantly reduced interactions per trip makes the 30% figure entirely unsurprising.  As I said, I don't need to see their work; I trust our experts.  You used to say trust our experts, until they started saying stuff that disagreed with your preferred narrative, and now you're the new Fox Mulder. "Trust no one! The truth is out there!"

Why do you find it so difficult to believe? Given the 50% mobility figure combined with the social distancing measures in place, elimination of large gatherings, plexiglass shields at every cash register, and so on... why is the 30% estimate they've provided so difficult for you to believe?   And what qualifications, sources of data, and other insights do you possess that make your approval of their methodology meaningful to anybody?

continued member kimmy bullshyte! To suit your narrative, my questioning is my "not believing"! Sad! What you so struggle with and can't account for is the lack of transparency by your claimed experts - the ones you blindly accept. It's just so unfortunate that you're nothing more than a simple accepting parrot with absolutely no inquisitive nature - at all! Again, my most innocuous statement/question triggered you to the point of absolute hilarity! Point in fact is how Google has received significant criticism in its methodology used to generate the mobility reports. So, of course, to you asking how your claimed experts used those reports to help arrive at their stated interaction figure - that's verboten as they're YOUR experts dammit... and they're expert!  ;D

Reminder, the claims are not mine, they're from Dr Henry and her excellent staff.   So you're not trying to counter their figures? Then what is your issue exactly?

again, questioning is not, 'not believing' - it's not, as you've repeatedly claimed, attempting to counter! Again, it's just a simple question, as quoted now several times, asking how the interaction figure was arrived at. It's quite telling that you're so accepting of the absence of full transparency by... your claimed experts - so telling!

I have a busy life. I can't be here to tend to your issues full time. I can imagine that with so little to occupy your time you must be eager for my replies, but you will need to be patient. I will get to you when I get to you.

now your wigginOut is "my issues" - nice! The waldo point was that you perpetually dredge up relatively distant, no longer topical posts. To the point you actually believe your dated replies are eagerly awaited! They're not; they're simply nuisance posts; but the waldo is always ready to keep putting you in your place!  ;D

The waldo had been happily parroting everything that came down the pike, from China, from the WHO, from Dr Tam, from JT And The Sunshine Gang... You were the Head Sheep among the Sheeple!  But now that Dr Henry and others have endorsed reopening, the waldo is now Mr Skeptic.

your timeline narrative needs work! You originally brought this issue forward on April 18th... and the waldo replied to you, initially, on April 19th. Jeezaz member kimmy, that's about a full month before B.C.'s initial phase opening! The waldo is always willing to let the facts get in the way of your self-serving false narratives! You're welcome.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 25, 2020, 01:17:32 am
Okay, let's look at some screenshots from the video you linked.

surely if you can take the time/effort to being the screenshots... you can size them properly - yes?  ;D

but hey now, to you, it's all trick photography. To you, none of those big-time social distancing failures are legitimate images - cause you've brought an example! Such critically astute analysis there member kimmy!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on May 25, 2020, 02:15:11 am
Okay, let's look at some screenshots from the video you linked.


Get what I'm saying?

 -k

So what you're saying is that the mayor, health officials, and the RCMP are accusing people of this in these parks, but they were all wrong...  they all were just looking at some misleading photos. 

Ok Conspira-Kimmy....   ::)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 25, 2020, 02:19:19 am
You continue to demonstrate that your reading comprehension skills are as abysmal as your writing skills.

I refuse to apologize for being happy.  I refused to apologize for getting on with my life.  Sitting at home and sulking isn't going to bring anybody back from the dead.

you've had your words quoted back to you several times now. There were multiple members who took you to task for being the selfish, uncaring, bar-hopper you are! Your words!

I find the cognitive dissonance delightful.

the waldo: "Your ideas aren't valuable because you used to be a waitress!"

also the waldo: "the former snowboard instructor is bigly qualified to be Prime Minister!"

You continually mock my background, yet your champion, your hero, your idol, is... the snowboard guy. That's **** hilarious. You're hilarious.

cognitive dissonance is a part of your brand! I started raggin on you about the Squirrel POS software partly cause it clearly bothers you... and partly because you think your current cubicle world job working for some niche playing kimCity company gives you the latitude to justify your pomposity believing you have some kind of actual corporate career. In any case, workin' for tips and plying the Squirrel doesn't quite give you legitimate real-world corporate standing, now does it... not that there's anything wrong with it - service people are the economy's backbone!

and yes, that you feel the incessant need to keep mentioning PM Trudeau is gold - real gold! That you dismiss him as the "snowboard guy" says more about you than anything. Like I said, PM Trudeau lives rent free in your head!

You're so triggered by me because I'm one of the few here who won't indulge your delusions of grandeur.

delusions of grandeur? You mean like your nattering writings about your sad little workplace - where you actually have belittling names for your co-workers? Like those zany attempts of yours to story-tell... where you actually posture as a writer? Talk about your delusions of grandeur. Just accept you can't get enough waldo - more waldo says member kimmy, more please!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 25, 2020, 09:54:03 am
So what you're saying is that the mayor, health officials, and the RCMP are accusing people of this in these parks, but they were all wrong...  they all were just looking at some misleading photos. 

Ok Conspira-Kimmy....   ::)

I already said that there may well have been real actual social distancing violations in the park.


What I am asking is why do media reports, like the video you linked, insist on using misleading photography?

Do you disagree that any of the screenshots I posted create a misleading appearance? 

Is it being a "conspiritard" to ask why the media would use misleading photography in their reports?

My favorite example, from earlier in this thread where the Radio-Canada photographer set out to deliberately create misleading photos to demonstrate this effect. This was one of those photos...

(https://images.radio-canada.ca/q_auto,w_960/v1/ici-info/perso/photos-gens-parc-laurier-passants-difference.png)

...and this CBC English article  (https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5554858)uses one of the photos he deliberately made to be misleading for their article.

It's crazy to ask why they're doing this?


 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on May 25, 2020, 10:18:21 am
your timeline narrative needs work! You originally brought this issue forward on April 18th... and the waldo replied to you, initially, on April 19th. Jeezaz member kimmy, that's about a full month before B.C.'s initial phase opening! The waldo is always willing to let the facts get in the way of your self-serving false narratives! You're welcome.

We're actually in the second phase as of last week, including the long-awaited return of pubs and restaurants, personal care, and other things.. The first phase started in early May. You're welcome.

you've had your words quoted back to you several times now. There were multiple members who took you to task for being the selfish, uncaring, bar-hopper you are! Your words!

What I said is that keeping me from going to the pub wouldn't protect people in care facilities.

That a few people are apparently too stupid to read what I wrote, or that a few people are so dishonest as to willfully misrepresent what I wrote, is beyond my control.  I'm not sure which of those groups your in, self-identify as you choose.

cognitive dissonance is a part of your brand! I started raggin on you about the Squirrel POS software partly cause it clearly bothers you... and partly because you think your current cubicle world job working for some niche playing kimCity company gives you the latitude to justify your pomposity believing you have some kind of actual corporate career. In any case, workin' for tips and plying the Squirrel doesn't quite give you legitimate real-world corporate standing, now does it... not that there's anything wrong with it - service people are the economy's backbone!

and yes, that you feel the incessant need to keep mentioning PM Trudeau is gold - real gold! That you dismiss him as the "snowboard guy" says more about you than anything. Like I said, PM Trudeau lives rent free in your head!

delusions of grandeur? You mean like your nattering writings about your sad little workplace - where you actually have belittling names for your co-workers? Like those zany attempts of yours to story-tell... where you actually posture as a writer? Talk about your delusions of grandeur. Just accept you can't get enough waldo - more waldo says member kimmy, more please!

I can tell you're mad when you get into the personal attacks-- my job, my writing, my locale. If's a sad, desperate look.  And I can see why you're mad.  From the start you've sought to impose a culture-war, politically polarized narrative on the lockdown. Because you're a pure partisan hack and you can only perceive the world in pure partisan terms. So you've envisioned this as a political clash between wise, science-believing lockdown-supporting Liberals vs selfish, conspiracy-believing reopening-supporting Conservatives.   But now that the experts are supporting reopening, you're not on the side of science anymore. Questioning Dr Henry's methodology, whining about Conservative premiers pushing the reopening. The "trust our experts guy" is now accusing people who trust the experts of being "shrooms".

If reopening vs lockdown was a culture-war, your side lost.

But luckily it was never a culture war, despite what you've so desperately tried to make it appear.


 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 25, 2020, 11:21:48 am
We're actually in the second phase as of last week, including the long-awaited return of pubs and restaurants, personal care, and other things.. The first phase started in early May. You're welcome.

 ;D the point being you're dredging up something from about a month prior to your much ballyhooed bar/pub openings... something long past topical! You seem to have a pattern of doing so!


What I said is that keeping me from going to the pub wouldn't protect people in care facilities.

That a few people are apparently too stupid to read what I wrote, or that a few people are so dishonest as to willfully misrepresent what I wrote, is beyond my control.  I'm not sure which of those groups your in, self-identify as you choose.

yes, your words! How could anyone misconstrue the following; how could numerous board members misinterpret your meaning/intent - particularly when you're so cavalier about how asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic transfer occurs...
Preventing kimmy from going to the bar after work doesn't do anything to protect nursing home residents.


I can tell you're mad when you get into the personal attacks-- my job, my writing, my locale. If's a sad, desperate look.  And I can see why you're mad.

how hyperbolic of you... fresh off your personal attacks of poor lil' waldo... as you throw down on cognitive dissonance and delusions of grandeur, hey!  ;D


From the start you've sought to impose a culture-war, politically polarized narrative on the lockdown. Because you're a pure partisan hack and you can only perceive the world in pure partisan terms. So you've envisioned this as a political clash between wise, science-believing lockdown-supporting Liberals vs selfish, conspiracy-believing reopening-supporting Conservatives.   But now that the experts are supporting reopening, you're not on the side of science anymore. Questioning Dr Henry's methodology, whining about Conservative premiers pushing the reopening. The "trust our experts guy" is now accusing people who trust the experts of being "shrooms".

If reopening vs lockdown was a culture-war, your side lost.

But luckily it was never a culture war, despite what you've so desperately tried to make it appear.

sad member kimmy! The waldo dealing in facts and science is most inconvenient for you. You mask your own self-serving partisan agenda in a claim that you trust YOUR experts! Yet, again, you blindly accepted the interaction claim made... even without the information needed to allow bipartisan assessment in how it was determined. Apparently, just cause!

you posture a win - so much winning by Trump member kimmy! And about those rising COVID-19 numbers in Ontario and Quebec... and those rising numbers in 17 U.S. states? Winning says member kimmy - winning; I can sit on my bar stool again!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 25, 2020, 12:46:01 pm
its called a destination point: Backwater Jacks Bar & Grill, Osage Beach - Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri... if you close the destination, they will not come! (notice the docks ConspiracyG - didja?)

Fact:  a restaurant and bar featuring a pool is different than a dock.

Some docks busy.  Maybe close public docks or ones that get busy.  A dock with 1 or 2 boats on it is different than a dock with 4 boats that's side-by-side 4 other docks with 4 boats each.  Did ya get that waldo?  didja?

The difference between a dock and a parking lot is what exactly?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on May 25, 2020, 02:03:53 pm
Open the boat launch and docks, close the pool and restaurant/bar.
its called a destination point: Backwater Jacks Bar & Grill, Osage Beach - Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri... if you close the destination, they will not come! (notice the docks ConspiracyG - didja?)

(https://i.imgur.com/9TQWa6f.png)
Fact:  a restaurant and bar featuring a pool is different than a dock.

Some docks busy.  Maybe close public docks or ones that get busy.  A dock with 1 or 2 boats on it is different than a dock with 4 boats that's side-by-side 4 other docks with 4 boats each.  Did ya get that waldo?  didja?

your convoluted opening comment presumes to close the destination spot and leave the docks open. Yet for some reason you haven't stated why people would use those docks if their attached/associated destination point pool & restaurant areas are closed - go figure!

The difference between a dock and a parking lot is what exactly?

not a darn thing when you choose to leave them open while closing their attached/associated destination point pool & restaurant areas.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 25, 2020, 05:56:36 pm
your convoluted opening comment presumes to close the destination spot and leave the docks open. Yet for some reason you haven't stated why people would use those docks if their attached/associated destination point pool & restaurant areas are closed - go figure!

My argument all along is that opening docks and boat launches isn't a big concern for COVID-19 transmission and I don't see why they shouldn't be opened.  Posting pictures of busy pools and patios and bars/restaurants that are located next to docks or boat launches has nothing to do with my point, because I never said to open pools or bars/restaurants.

The only exception, which I stated, is that some large public docks with a lot of boats tightly next to each other might bring a lot of people, so they could be closed.

You could also maybe limit boats to 2 people.  Some man and his son going out for a fish is different than a group of people packed onto a boat partying it up.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: MH on June 01, 2020, 08:27:59 am
I had to break my mortgage and the bank is penalizing me !!!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mortgage-penalty-pandemic-1.5588741

I have some sympathy but... no that's what these things are for.  House prices will/should crash to earth now.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 06, 2020, 08:22:59 pm
Germany Just Unveiled the Worldís Greenest Stimulus Plan (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-05/germany-s-recovery-fund-gets-green-hue-with-its-focus-on-climate)

Quote
Germanyís 130 billion euro ($145 billion) recovery budget puts the focus on climate-friendly industries and technologies, underscoring Chancellor Angela Merkelís pledge to reboot the economy and wean it off fossil power and cars that laid the foundation of the countryís export prowess.

The plan unveiled late on Wednesday after 21 hours of intense negotiations is the most ambitious yet by any government to support green initiatives. Divided into 57 different points addressing sectors from taxes to families to agriculture, the budget allocates about 41 billion euros to areas like public transport, electric vehicles and renewable energy, according to calculations by Bloomberg News.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on June 07, 2020, 12:35:43 pm
I had to break my mortgage and the bank is penalizing me !!!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mortgage-penalty-pandemic-1.5588741

I have some sympathy but... no that's what these things are for.  House prices will/should crash to earth now.

Nah, that would involve the banks losing money. That's not going to happen.  Real estate prices will be protected. Stock markets are recovering strong.  It's only small businesses and labor who are hurting in the new pandemic economy.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on June 07, 2020, 01:16:01 pm
;D the point being you're dredging up something from about a month prior to your much ballyhooed bar/pub openings... something long past topical! You seem to have a pattern of doing so!

You're the one who tried to pass off a revisionist history of the conversation.  You apparently don't like having your "alternative facts" corrected.

yes, your words! How could anyone misconstrue the following; how could numerous board members misinterpret your meaning/intent - particularly when you're so cavalier about how asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic transfer occurs...

You obviously didn't follow, but the Squid understood what I was saying right away and we discussed it at the time. We all recognize that you're not nearly as intelligent as the Squid, but the resulting conversation he and I had ought to have tipped you off. Apparently not. Oh well. It is what it is. Regardless, I won't hold myself responsible for your literacy problems.

sad member kimmy! The waldo dealing in facts and science is most inconvenient for you. You mask your own self-serving partisan agenda in a claim that you trust YOUR experts! Yet, again, you blindly accepted the interaction claim made... even without the information needed to allow bipartisan assessment in how it was determined. Apparently, just cause!

My experts? They're the government of British Columbia's experts.  And given their success in managing the pandemic, I think they have earned our trust.  We're almost 3 weeks into phase 2 reopening, and new cases remain almost non-existent and the number of active cases in BC has continued to plummet. At last report we have 21 in hospital and 5 in ICU.  Also, what do you mean "bipartisan"? More nonsense driven by your lockdown-as-politics narrative!  ;D

I'm sure that a few of you sick mofos are hoping for a fresh wave of cases so that you can say "I told you so", but there's no sign that reopening is having any effect.

you posture a win - so much winning by Trump member kimmy!

A wordier version of Omni's "your buddy Trump, hurr durr!!"   Did you pay him royalties for that?  ;D

Like Omni, you're incapable of processing things except in partisan terms. And in your partisan terms the end of the lockdown means that the rednecks have won. How upsetting this must be for you.  ;D

And about those rising COVID-19 numbers in Ontario and Quebec... and those rising numbers in 17 U.S. states?

What about them?  Do you think the whole country should have remained on hold until Toronto and Montreal can safely reopen?  **** that ****.

Winning says member kimmy - winning; I can sit on my bar stool again!

Winning indeed!  People are out in droves here in Kim City. Restaurants and pubs are as full as seating restrictions permit. Business are open, employees are back to work, people are happy.  For those of you who had made cheering on the lockdown a partisan issue, reopening is obviously a loss, but for the rest of us this is a a joyful occasion.   You and Omni and the Squid can gnash your teeth from your basements or wherever it is that you're self-quarantining; the rest of us will be out enjoying life.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on June 07, 2020, 01:31:32 pm
You're the one who tried to pass off a revisionist history of the conversation.  You apparently don't like having your "alternative facts" corrected.

You obviously didn't follow, but the Squid understood what I was saying right away and we discussed it at the time. We all recognize that you're not nearly as intelligent as the Squid, but the resulting conversation he and I had ought to have tipped you off. Apparently not. Oh well. It is what it is. Regardless, I won't hold myself responsible for your literacy problems.

My experts? They're the government of British Columbia's experts.  And given their success in managing the pandemic, I think they have earned our trust.  We're almost 3 weeks into phase 2 reopening, and new cases remain almost non-existent and the number of active cases in BC has continued to plummet. At last report we have 21 in hospital and 5 in ICU.  Also, what do you mean "bipartisan"? More nonsense driven by your lockdown-as-politics narrative!  ;D

I'm sure that a few of you sick mofos are hoping for a fresh wave of cases so that you can say "I told you so", but there's no sign that reopening is having any effect.

A wordier version of Omni's "your buddy Trump, hurr durr!!"   Did you pay him royalties for that?  ;D

Like Omni, you're incapable of processing things except in partisan terms. And in your partisan terms the end of the lockdown means that the rednecks have won. How upsetting this must be for you.  ;D

What about them?  Do you think the whole country should have remained on hold until Toronto and Montreal can safely reopen?  **** that ****.

Winning indeed!  People are out in droves here in Kim City. Restaurants and pubs are as full as seating restrictions permit. Business are open, employees are back to work, people are happy.  For those of you who had made cheering on the lockdown a partisan issue, reopening is obviously a loss, but for the rest of us this is a a joyful occasion.   You and Omni and the Squid can gnash your teeth from your basements or wherever it is that you're self-quarantining; the rest of us will be out enjoying life.

 -k

All I'll say is here's hoping you don't get caught in the second wave of covid, regardless of your seemingly careless attitude which may help cause it.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on June 07, 2020, 02:24:22 pm
All I'll say is here's hoping you don't get caught in the second wave of covid, regardless of your seemingly careless attitude which may help cause it.
Yes, it wonít be hundreds of thousands of irresponsible protestors.  Itíll be people like kimmy! 😂🤣
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on June 07, 2020, 05:20:49 pm
Yes, it wonít be hundreds of thousands of irresponsible protestors.  Itíll be people like kimmy! 😂🤣

Yeah, lets blame the mostly mast wearing protesters:

https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/1269169419998990336?s=20
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 07, 2020, 07:33:05 pm
You're the one who tried to pass off a revisionist history of the conversation.  You apparently don't like having your "alternative facts" corrected.

we're approaching 2 months since that, as you say, "conversation" - and you keep dredging this up; something that is long past relevant to today! Apparently you think the loss of specifics to that conversation plays to your strength in obscuring what was actually said. I've re-quoted (several times now) the salient points and bullshyte claims you've made against me. The only revisionism is yours! Again, my questioning how the interaction figure was arrived at isn't presenting, as you say, alternative facts... or as you stated previously, wasn't me attempting to counter the figure you so willingly and blindly accepted. I gave you nothing to correct - I simply questioned how something was arrived at! Of course this caused you to wigOut, to meltDown. If you had any intellectual honesty you would have simply accepted YOUR experts were not transparent in how they presented their info/data/results. Of course, intellectual honesty is the last thing you ascribe to - it's not a part of your inherent makeup! You're a poser - bigTime!

Regardless, I won't hold myself responsible for your literacy problems.

there were several members who interpreted what you stated the same way I did. Having your selfish callous nature highlighted clearly bothered you. And now go with all you have left... singularly attribute the multiple member interpretations to me, and offer a summary dismissal! Like I said, you nothing but a poser - bigTime!

My experts? They're the government of British Columbia's experts.  And given their success in managing the pandemic, I think they have earned our trust.

uhhh... again, this reflects upon something long past relevant to today - and in that proper context, you gave your trust prior to any earning being done! Again, your revisionism... with you continuing to make up shyte! ;D

Also, what do you mean "bipartisan"? More nonsense driven by your lockdown-as-politics narrative!  ;D

being the self-proclaimed literary wizard you posture as, I'm shocked your postured "vast" vocabulary has such a narrow political only attachment to the word 'partisan'! Again, you're such a poser - bigTime!

I'm sure that a few of you sick mofos are hoping for a fresh wave of cases so that you can say "I told you so", but there's no sign that reopening is having any effect.

how sad and pathetic you are! I expect you're one of those, as you say, "sick mofos", who won't acknowledge what lockdowns achieved... believing that they were simply nuisance plays that interfered with your barTime! I expect you're also one of those, as you say, "sick mofos", who believe many want indefinite lockdowns until a vaccine arrives!  ;D I expect you're also one of those, as you say, "sick mofos", who are quite willing to sacrifice the elderly/infirm... so as not to mess with your barTime!

in any case, yes, some some countries have had outbreaks after opening up... and they've reimposed restrictions to deal with them. And in the U.S., disturbingly, many of the states opening back up are the ones that have yet to see falling case rates - no worries, hey!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on June 08, 2020, 10:41:39 am
Yeah, lets blame the mostly mast wearing protesters:

https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/1269169419998990336?s=20
Perfect!  So itís ok to open things up as long as people are practicing mitigation!  Hmmm, where have I heard that before.  Oh right, me.  If itís ok for protestors it should be ok for tax payers too.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on June 08, 2020, 11:10:56 am
Perfect!  So itís ok to open things up as long as people are practicing mitigation!  Hmmm, where have I heard that before.  Oh right, me.  If itís ok for protestors it should be ok for tax payers too.

Youíre a maroon
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Omni on June 08, 2020, 11:32:52 am
Perfect!  So itís ok to open things up as long as people are practicing mitigation!  Hmmm, where have I heard that before.  Oh right, me.  If itís ok for protestors it should be ok for tax payers too.

So you're suggesting protesters aren't taxpayers. Typical flimsy attempt. And maybe take a look at the amount of mask wearers there are among those protesters and the idiots who have flooded beaches in California/Florida etc.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on June 08, 2020, 04:08:11 pm
Yah and that was brilliant. Thanks. Unlike you he can write more than three words and he isn't afraid to call you an ass to your face.  I will defend him any day and argue with him for the same reason. Have a wonderful day.

If it helps, you're also a maroon.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on June 08, 2020, 11:36:41 pm
Yes, it wonít be hundreds of thousands of irresponsible protestors.  Itíll be people like kimmy! 😂🤣

Coronavirus is only spread by selfish-people and by protesters whose views we don't approve of.  Protests with noble causes are immune.

Yeah, lets blame the mostly mast wearing protesters:

https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/1269169419998990336?s=20

Oh. Large gatherings are okay now as long as they're "mostly" wearing masks?  Cool. We can have our hockey arenas and concerts and Pride parades back, as long as attendees are "mostly" wearing masks?

Funny but no.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/protests-pandemic/612460/

Quote
ďI donít think thereís a question of whether there will be spikes in cases in 10 to 14 days,Ē Mark Shrime, a public-health researcher at Harvard, told me. ďWith so many protests happening, that are getting so much bigger, I donít think itís a question of if, but when and where.Ē

Maimuna Majumder, a computational epidemiologist at Boston Childrenís Hospital and Harvard Medical School, agrees. ďAll things considered, thereís little doubt that these protests will translate into increased risk of transmission for COVID-19,Ē she told me by email.

And this was obvious to everybody, including you.

A couple of weeks ago you were among those howling that my "selfishness" was literally killing grandma. Now you don't give a rat's ass about grandma.  What caused this sudden change of heart? Is it that Prime Minister Trudeau was personally out among those breaking every social distancing rule on the books?



 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on June 08, 2020, 11:48:21 pm
Quote
A couple of weeks ago you were among those howling that my "selfishness" was literally killing grandma. Now you don't give a rat's ass about grandma.  What caused this sudden change of heart? Is it that Prime Minister Trudeau was personally out among those breaking every social distancing rule on the books?


Trump does the opposite of what his administration is telling citizens to do, liberal supporters have a bird. Trudeau does the same, they cheer.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on June 09, 2020, 01:16:30 am
we're approaching 2 months since that, as you say, "conversation" - and you keep dredging this up; something that is long past relevant to today! Apparently you think the loss of specifics to that conversation plays to your strength in obscuring what was actually said. I've re-quoted (several times now) the salient points and bullshyte claims you've made against me. The only revisionism is yours! Again, my questioning how the interaction figure was arrived at isn't presenting, as you say, alternative facts... or as you stated previously, wasn't me attempting to counter the figure you so willingly and blindly accepted. I gave you nothing to correct - I simply questioned how something was arrived at! Of course this caused you to wigOut, to meltDown. If you had any intellectual honesty you would have simply accepted YOUR experts were not transparent in how they presented their info/data/results. Of course, intellectual honesty is the last thing you ascribe to - it's not a part of your inherent makeup! You're a poser - bigTime!

lol!


there were several members who interpreted what you stated the same way I did. Having your selfish callous nature highlighted clearly bothered you. And now go with all you have left... singularly attribute the multiple member interpretations to me, and offer a summary dismissal! Like I said, you nothing but a poser - bigTime!

Who exactly was this Greek Chorus of individuals you claim shared your view? I recall only yourself and BC_Cheque.  She was grieving for her stock portfolio, so I can forgive her.

uhhh... again, this reflects upon something long past relevant to today - and in that proper context, you gave your trust prior to any earning being done! Again, your revisionism... with you continuing to make up shyte! ;D

BC's health authorities had already established the public trust by the time they announced the reopening plans. It was long obvious by then that BC was well ahead of the rest of the country, especially Ontario and Quebec.

And again I reiterate how funny it is that you only became Mr Skeptic once Dr Henry began to drift from the lockdown narrative you've been so emotionally invested in.   You'd been happy to "Trust Our Experts" before then-- cheerfully repeating Dr Tam and Minister Hajdu and the WHO and the CCP and whoever else.  Up until late April, you'd been Mr Credulity.

being the self-proclaimed literary wizard you posture as, I'm shocked your postured "vast" vocabulary has such a narrow political only attachment to the word 'partisan'! Again, you're such a poser - bigTime!

ha ha! Nice try, loldo!  Your word choice here is an "Own Goal!" to borrow your favorite phrase. It once again illustrates what a purely partisan hack you are. I notice you didn't repeat the comparison to Trump. Did you realize that it just serves to underscore my point?  Or did Omni tell you to quit stealing his material?  ;D


how sad and pathetic you are! I expect you're one of those, as you say, "sick mofos", who won't acknowledge what lockdowns achieved... believing that they were simply nuisance plays that interfered with your barTime! I expect you're also one of those, as you say, "sick mofos", who believe many want indefinite lockdowns until a vaccine arrives!  ;D I expect you're also one of those, as you say, "sick mofos", who are quite willing to sacrifice the elderly/infirm... so as not to mess with your barTime!

If it's safe for the Prime Minister to go out in a throng of thousands to shake hands and swap germs in a province where new cases continue to roll in, I think it's safe for the kimmo to return to the carefully-managed venues here in the covid-free splendor of Kim City.

I suppose that now that Justin has endorsed large protests without social distancing, you'll be joining JMT in the "who cares about grandma?" camp.

in any case, yes, some some countries have had outbreaks after opening up... and they've reimposed restrictions to deal with them. And in the U.S., disturbingly, many of the states opening back up are the ones that have yet to see falling case rates - no worries, hey!

You're just praying for people to get sick, aren't you. "Please, God, give me a spike in covid numbers so that I can get on the internet and shout 'I TOLD YOU SO!'" 

You'll soon get your spike, and when it arrives they will trace it to the Justin's George Floyd protests, not to the kimmo's Happy Hour festivities.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: BC_cheque on June 09, 2020, 01:32:28 am

Who exactly was this Greek Chorus of individuals you claim shared your view? I recall only yourself and BC_Cheque.  She was grieving for her stock portfolio, so I can forgive her.


Oh go **** yourself if that's all you got from me in all this.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 09, 2020, 01:33:37 am
we're approaching 2 months since that, as you say, "conversation" - and you keep dredging this up; something that is long past relevant to today! Apparently you think the loss of specifics to that conversation plays to your strength in obscuring what was actually said. I've re-quoted (several times now) the salient points and bullshyte claims you've made against me. The only revisionism is yours! Again, my questioning how the interaction figure was arrived at isn't presenting, as you say, alternative facts... or as you stated previously, wasn't me attempting to counter the figure you so willingly and blindly accepted. I gave you nothing to correct - I simply questioned how something was arrived at! Of course this caused you to wigOut, to meltDown. If you had any intellectual honesty you would have simply accepted YOUR experts were not transparent in how they presented their info/data/results. Of course, intellectual honesty is the last thing you ascribe to - it's not a part of your inherent makeup! You're a poser - bigTime!

lol!

I accept your unconditional surrender - I'll save you the complete embarrassment and humiliation by not, yet again, replaying the complete exchanges that clearly show you're full of shyte... to the point of desperation where you make false claims and charges against poor lil' waldo! I trust this will be the very last time you dredge up this long past issue. Please concentrate on your forte - I've missed your workplace superiorPosturing as you belittle all your co-workers... the one's you pined for while under your workplace lockdown!  ;D
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on June 09, 2020, 01:39:06 am
Oh go **** yourself if that's all you got from me in all this.

Back at you.

And on top of it, we have people like you and OP, who say their lives aren't really that important because you want to go to the bar.  Seriously WTF.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: BC_cheque on June 09, 2020, 01:48:41 am
Back at you.

 -k

Yes, I was appalled at your post, along with many others besides Waldo.

But that's not the point, I spilled my guts out on this thread about how tough it was for me trying to work at home with two kids.  How the company I work for could be bankrupt in the next few months and I'd be out of a job.  How I have elderly parents that I would be devastated if they were to die. 

How I was losing my **** and everything I went through and you want to berate me that all I cared about was my STUPID PORTFOLIO?   The one thing I felt is not really an issue because I have enough years to make up for it? 

You used to be better than that.



Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 09, 2020, 01:54:42 am
And again I reiterate how funny it is that you only became Mr Skeptic once Dr Henry began to drift from the lockdown narrative you've been so emotionally invested in.   You'd been happy to "Trust Our Experts" before then-- cheerfully repeating Dr Tam and Minister Hajdu and the WHO and the CCP and whoever else.  Up until late April, you'd been Mr Credulity.

such desperation! Again, since you persist: My asking a single question does not make me your Mr. Skeptic foil... asking how a figure was arrived at shouldn't have caused you such distress. Again, those Google app sourced reports were under scrutiny by the broader tech community; while providing no detail/transparency, YOUR experts openly touted them as a part of how they arrived at that integration figure. You were clearly predisposed to blindly accept that figure... others simply questioned how it was arrived at.

move on lil' kimmy - move on!  ;D
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 09, 2020, 02:04:08 am
ha ha! Nice try, loldo!  Your word choice here is an "Own Goal!" to borrow your favorite phrase. It once again illustrates what a purely partisan hack you are.

no need for a "nice try". The word "partisan" is not strictly confined to the political arena; accordingly, I most certainly used it properly in that vein. For something so easily confirmed, why would you even bother to double-down? You're so losing it - not that you really ever had it!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on June 09, 2020, 02:22:08 am
I accept your unconditional surrender - I'll save you the complete embarrassment and humiliation by not, yet again, replaying the complete exchanges that clearly show you're full of shyte... to the point of desperation where you make false claims and charges against poor lil' waldo! I trust this will be the very last time you dredge up this long past issue.

 lol.  I'm not going to waste my time by going back to yet again correct you over the false timeline you presented regarding the BC reopening schedule.  Obviously that got your dander up and you're still not over it.

Please concentrate on your forte - I've missed your workplace superiorPosturing as you belittle all your co-workers... the one's you pined for while under your workplace lockdown!  ;D

And I don't feel bad about sharing stories about my coworkers with Michael and Wilber and a few others here. You're welcome to ignore them if you wish, I really couldn't care less. And I won't worry about having my career or my workplace belittled by a guy who is most likely a shut-in incel whose "job" is probably just writing a low-circulation blog.

no need for a "nice try". The word "partisan" is not strictly confined to the political arena; accordingly, I most certainly used it properly in that vein. For something so easily confirmed, why would you even bother to double-down? You're so losing it - not that you really ever had it!

Everybody knows exactly what you meant. You've spent the whole thread demonstrating that this is a partisan issue for you.  Posting pictures of US conservative covidiots (and referring to them as "Kimmy people" as I recall). Equating those of us who've advocated for measured reopening with American covidiots.  Pimping the lockdown to pwn the conservatives!

So now that Justin is out there on the streets shaking hands and sharing germs, I gather you're done posting pictures of the American "Covidiots" you were posting earlier?

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on June 09, 2020, 02:35:29 am
Yes, I was appalled at your post, along with many others besides Waldo.

But that's not the point, I spilled my guts out on this thread about how tough it was for me trying to work at home with two kids.  How the company I work for could be bankrupt in the next few months and I'd be out of a job.  How I have elderly parents that I would be devastated if they were to die. 

How I was losing my **** and everything I went through and you want to berate me that all I cared about was my STUPID PORTFOLIO?   The one thing I felt is not really an issue because I have enough years to make up for it? 

You used to be better than that.

You jumped into the thread to talk about how your parents' RRIFs had decreased in value.

And then you accused me of not caring if old-people die because I want to go get drunk.

I'm more than a little pissed about that.  I expect stuff like that from waldo because he's a piece of crap, but I didn't expect it from you. So I'm not feeling super charitable right now.

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 09, 2020, 02:57:59 am
So I'm not feeling super charitable right now.

clearly the leash your, as you called her, "Missus", has you on is way too short!  ;D Get her to loosen it a tad, hey!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 09, 2020, 03:05:24 am
lol.  I'm not going to waste my time by going back to yet again correct you over the false timeline you presented regarding the BC reopening schedule.  Obviously that got your dander up and you're still not over it.

said timeline distinction was/is irrelevant - you're reaching and making shyte up... again! Your desperation reeks - jeezaz, you should have just shut your pie-hole and moved on. It was a simple question... one you didn't have an answer for. So, approaching 2 months later, you're still trying to make some point over the fact YOUR experts didn't account for how they arrived at the figure you blindly accepted. That's it!  ;D
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 09, 2020, 03:11:06 am
And I don't feel bad about sharing stories about my coworkers with Michael and Wilber and a few others here. You're welcome to ignore them if you wish, I really couldn't care less. And I won't worry about having my career or my workplace belittled by a guy who is most likely a shut-in incel whose "job" is probably just writing a low-circulation blog.

ignore them? Hell no - they're a testament to just how pompous and princessPretentious you are... the kimmyWhiz and her lowly workplace minions!
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 09, 2020, 03:30:14 am
Yet, again, you blindly accepted the interaction claim made... even without the information needed to allow bipartisan assessment in how it was determined. Apparently, just cause!

Everybody knows exactly what you meant. You've spent the whole thread demonstrating that this is a partisan issue for you.

why do you struggle so? Again, the word partisan is not confined within... is not limited to, a political-only context! In this case the 2 factions of a bipartisan assessment would be the side aligned with completeness, transparency and due-diligence (the waldo side) and the other side aligned with expedient blind acceptance (the member kimmy side).
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on June 09, 2020, 04:08:46 am
Youíre a maroon
Thatís what I figured.  When people like you are challenged to explain your ideas, you resort to pathetic name calling, because your ideas are so weak and lacking substance.  Youíre too used to the back slapping echo chamber.  Whether you like it or not, youíre a complete and utter hypocrite when it comes to the protests vs people opening their businesses while practicing mitigation. 
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Bubbermiley on June 09, 2020, 05:52:16 am
Thatís what I figured.  When people like you are challenged to explain your ideas, you resort to pathetic name calling, because your ideas are so weak and lacking substance. 
I suggest telling him he needs help because he has a "derangement syndrome". That always works when one is losing an argument badly.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: BC_cheque on June 09, 2020, 01:16:41 pm
You jumped into the thread to talk about how your parents' RRIFs had decreased in value.


Sure, I 'jumped' in the thread about my parents' RRIF because it was sooooo irrelevant with you saying things like:

The government is doing everything possible to make sure that the boomers' overpriced real estate assets remain overpriced, and everything possible to make sure that the boomers' overpriced stock assets remain overpriced, and nothing to compensate young people for the years of lost earnings they're going to suffer from this catastrophe. So tell me how the **** this is fair.

I mean, really nothing you're posting here is changing my view that young people aren't sacrificing their economic well being for the sake of the health of boomers and the elderly.


And twenty pages later, in your bicker with Waldo you drag me into it and berate me for 'grieving' MY portfolio.

Get a handle on yourself.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on June 10, 2020, 09:40:56 am
Do these lives matter at all?  Just wondering.  Or is it just covid deaths that people care about?

The life and death COVID-19 curve no one is talking about
As Canada works to flatten the coronavirus curve, the combination of anxiety, economic insecurity and isolation has mental health experts concerned that suicide rates in the country could be headed in the opposite direction.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/06/10/the-life-and-death-covid-19-curve-no-one-is-talking-about.html
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 10, 2020, 11:40:09 am
Do these lives matter at all?  Just wondering.  Or is it just covid deaths that people care about?

The life and death COVID-19 curve no one is talking aboutAs Canada works to flatten the coronavirus curve, the combination of anxiety, economic insecurity and isolation has mental health experts concerned that suicide rates in the country could be headed in the opposite direction.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/06/10/the-life-and-death-covid-19-curve-no-one-is-talking-about.html

accepting that the study's co-author acknowledged their simplistic approach in linking suicide to a single social factor - unemployment... let the waldo offer you a graphic from that study. Note: the study does NOT factor any manner of "preventative" mitigation; say, like... "wage subsidies, forbearance on financial obligation, government support of small business, work retraining programs, access to community-based support programs, etc.."

member Shady, at the extreme 'worst case' scenario in your referenced study, will YOU offer comparative comment in regards an additional 2114 suicides (across the entire breadth of Canada) versus lives saved as a result of shutdown measures... will YOU, member Shady?

(https://i.imgur.com/mhdZtLc.jpg)

==================================================================================

member Shady... a sweetener for you - you're welcome:

Coronavirus shutdowns prevented 60 million infections in the USA (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/06/08/covid-19-us-lockdown-prevented-60-m-coronavirus-infections-study-says/5317334002/)

Quote
Researchers found the USA may have been able to avoid an additional 4.8 million confirmed coronavirus cases, which translates to about 60 million more infections, as a result of statewide lockdowns and mandated social distancing restrictions, according to the report published in the peer-reviewed scientific journal Nature.

Infections were much higher than confirmed cases, they argued, because many people didn't have access to a coronavirus test or didn't go to their doctors to obtain one. The study documented changes in testing procedures and availability, as well as differences in case detection across the country.

The effect of large-scale anti-contagion policies on the COVID-19 pandemic (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2404-8)

Quote
Abstract

Governments around the world are responding to the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic1 with unprecedented policies designed to slow the growth rate of infections. Many actions, such as closing schools and restricting populations to their homes, impose large and visible costs on society, but their benefits cannot be directly observed and are currently understood only through process-based simulations2Ė4. Here, we compile new data on 1,717 local, regional, and national non-pharmaceutical interventions deployed in the ongoing pandemic across localities in China, South Korea, Italy, Iran, France, and the United States (US). We then apply reduced-form econometric methods, commonly used to measure the effect of policies on economic growth5,6, to empirically evaluate the effect that these anti-contagion policies have had on the growth rate of infections. In the absence of policy actions, we estimate that early infections of COVID-19 exhibit exponential growth rates of roughly 38% per day. We find that anti-contagion policies have significantly and substantially slowed this growth. Some policies have different impacts on different populations, but we obtain consistent evidence that the policy packages now deployed are achieving large, beneficial, and measurable health outcomes. We estimate that across these six countries, interventions prevented or delayed on the order of 62 million confirmed cases, corresponding to averting roughly 530 million total infections. These findings may help inform whether or when these policies should be deployed, intensified, or lifted, and they can support decision-making in the other 180+ countries where COVID-19 has been reported7.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on June 10, 2020, 01:09:31 pm
I think Shady is advocating for a much expanded social safety net. I'm all for that.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: eyeball on June 10, 2020, 11:00:32 pm
accepting that the study's co-author acknowledged their simplistic approach in linking suicide to a single social factor - unemployment... let the waldo offer you a graphic from that study. Note: the study does NOT factor any manner of "preventative" mitigation; say, like... "wage subsidies, forbearance on financial obligation, government support of small business, work retraining programs, access to community-based support programs, etc.."
I suspect this sort of mitigation would only result in a need to flatten a curve of suicides amongst conservatives. Governments are forever damned if they do or don't.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 11, 2020, 10:12:18 am
I think Shady is advocating for a much expanded social safety net. I'm all for that.

I missed this - my bad! Clearly I have a historically influenced blind spot in regards member Shady... going forward I'll try to be more open/receptive to the members like initiatives, particularly those advocating on behalf of the poor, the disabled, the mentally challenged, the racially disadvantaged, new immigrants, etc..
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: guest78 on June 11, 2020, 01:23:26 pm
I think Shady is advocating for a much expanded social safety net. I'm all for that.
No, Iím advocating for a more sensible and scientific approach to the Wuhan coronavirus.  Iím also illustrating that itís not lives vs money, itís lives vs lives and lives vs livelihoods.  And that itís not so simplistic as argued by alarmists.  Itís much more complicated and many different aspects of this need to be weighed and balanced.  Iím not sure why you people canít acknowledge reality.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: eyeball on June 12, 2020, 09:34:25 am
No, Iím advocating for a more sensible and scientific approach to the Wuhan coronavirus.  Iím also illustrating that itís not lives vs money, itís lives vs lives and lives vs livelihoods.  And that itís not so simplistic as argued by alarmists.  Itís much more complicated and many different aspects of this need to be weighed and balanced.  Iím not sure why you people canít acknowledge reality.
Saying it's about livelihoods is saying it's about money and the argument that we'll doomed by national debt if we put lives first is as simplistic as it gets. The reality is we've been doomed by public debt before in fact many people seem to live their entire lives in constant certainty the end is always nigh - even the boy who cried wolf must have finally tired of the effort of crying.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on June 12, 2020, 10:05:51 am
Saying it's about livelihoods is saying it's about money and the argument that we'll doomed by national debt if we put lives first is as simplistic as it gets. The reality is we've been doomed by public debt before in fact many people seem to live their entire lives in constant certainty the end is always nigh - even the boy who cried wolf must have finally tired of the effort of crying.

The boy who cried wolf ended up getting eaten by the wolf.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on June 12, 2020, 12:03:54 pm
That's what they'll be for at least 30 years, because that's what the bonds will be locked in at.

Please reconcile your opinion that no one will buy 30 year bonds with the fact that a record amount of these bonds were sold recently.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 12, 2020, 12:08:23 pm
Wait, what?  I thought it was suppose to be the exact opposite! 

Floridaís new cases actually declined by 14% compared to the previous week, and Georgiaís fell by 12%Ē between May 4 and May 11, Axios reported, noting that ďNevada leads the pack with a 44% reduction
https://www.mediaite.com/news/florida-and-georgia-coronavirus-cases-decline-despite-concerns-south-dakota-cases-shoot-up-2/

on June 11, at 1,698, FL hit a new daily coronavirus case high... and, of course, the increasing positivity rate is a sign the infection is spreading

(https://i.imgur.com/4CglSBZ.png)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on June 12, 2020, 03:09:54 pm
Please reconcile your opinion that no one will buy 30 year bonds with the fact that a record amount of these bonds were sold recently.

?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 15, 2020, 11:09:16 am
NYT - Coronavirus Cases Spike Across Sun Belt as Economy Lurches into Motion (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/14/us/coronavirus-united-states.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage)

Quote
Arizona, Texas and Florida are reporting their highest case numbers yet. As of Saturday, coronavirus cases were climbing in 22 states amid reopenings.
.
The warning has echoed ominously for weeks from epidemiologists, small-town mayors and county health officials: Once states begin to reopen, a surge in coronavirus cases will follow.

That scenario is now playing out in states across the country, particularly in the Sun Belt and the West, as thousands of Americans have been sickened by the virus in new and alarming outbreaks.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on June 15, 2020, 12:15:26 pm
It is going to be an absolute catastrophe.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on June 15, 2020, 12:32:21 pm
It is going to be an absolute catastrophe.

Already is....   but this is what happens when you base policy on hoping the pandemic misses your area.  The mass protests are going to kill people from spreading the virus as well.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: eyeball on June 15, 2020, 02:49:48 pm
The boy who cried wolf ended up getting eaten by the wolf.
He was asking for it I guess.  It's been a long time since I read it.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: JMT on June 15, 2020, 03:37:47 pm
Already is....   

This is nothing
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: kimmy on June 17, 2020, 08:42:41 pm
This is nothing

While I think it's hilarious that one of the strident "you're killing grandma!" people here has been defending the mass rule-breaking at protests, the truth is that it is indeed pretty much a big nothing.  Neither the George Floyd protests nor the infamous Trinity Bellwoods Park incident have made a noticeable difference. Transmission outdoors in fresh air and sunlight is unlikely.

On the other hand... get 18,000 yelling Trumptards jammed into an arena in close proximity breathing the same recirculated air, it's going to be a disaster.  Just 2 more days to the Superbowl of Stupidity!

 -k
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2020, 09:04:25 pm
That's what they'll be for at least 30 years, because that's what the bonds will be locked in at.

If you buy 30 year bonds.  They sell bonds at many different lengths.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2020, 09:07:47 pm
Please reconcile your opinion that no one will buy 30 year bonds with the fact that a record amount of these bonds were sold recently.

Do you have a link on that?

What I do know is that Canada 30-year bonds are selling at record-low yields.  Which means they've never been worth so little.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-27/canada-s-30-year-bond-yield-reaches-record-low-on-coronavirus
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on June 17, 2020, 09:11:36 pm
Do you have a link on that?

What I do know is that Canada 30-year bonds are selling at record-low yields.  Which means they've never been worth so little.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-27/canada-s-30-year-bond-yield-reaches-record-low-on-coronavirus

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/foreigners-are-buying-up-canadian-debt-at-a-record-pace-1.1451294
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2020, 09:23:14 pm
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/foreigners-are-buying-up-canadian-debt-at-a-record-pace-1.1451294

30 year bonds?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on June 17, 2020, 10:26:31 pm
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/foreigners-are-buying-up-canadian-debt-at-a-record-pace-1.1451294
Bonds are sold in terms of one to thirty years. What are they buying?
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on June 18, 2020, 12:57:44 pm
 ;D Trump says "it's dying out"! Meanwhile... in the US, Florida, Texas and Arizona saw their highest single-day increases in new Covid-19 cases. New projections say Florida has "all the markings of the next large epicenter." (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/18/us/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/s6alBaV.png)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: BC_cheque on June 28, 2020, 05:11:08 pm
Fitting for this thread, I thought I'd share a powerful video from The Lincoln Project.  Gave me goose bumps.

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1277347294376013828
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on July 24, 2020, 10:53:10 am
oh my! Recent days SuperDuperSpreader drum circle event @3rd Beach --- Dr. Bonnie Henry said she was appalled... appalled I tells ya!

(https://i.imgur.com/yTqmKE4.png)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on July 24, 2020, 11:35:06 am
It's tough on younger people not being able to let loose a bit but they are going to get things shut down again.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: waldo on July 24, 2020, 03:41:20 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/POvfvOM.png)
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on July 24, 2020, 06:14:54 pm
So if you are under 40 and get this, you have a 20% chance of winding up in hospital.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: BC_cheque on July 25, 2020, 06:39:45 pm
33.33%
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: BC_cheque on July 25, 2020, 06:45:40 pm
It's tough on younger people not being able to let loose a bit but they are going to get things shut down again.

I really would've lost it if in my 20's I couldn't go out.  But even then, as much of a social butterfly as I used to be, I think that the thought of getting my parents or grand parents sick may have been a deterrent.

It's really a mindset I find.  I know people my age and even older who don't seem to care.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on July 25, 2020, 07:46:40 pm
33.33%

I stand corrected. I was thinking of it as a percentage of total infections but of course it isnít if it just about U 39ís
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on July 26, 2020, 12:13:57 am
Sitting here watching a Super Rugby match from Eden Park in Auckland with 34,000 people in the stands.
This happened today. Someone got it right.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: the_squid on July 29, 2020, 01:39:42 pm
Sitting here watching a Super Rugby match from Eden Park in Auckland with 34,000 people in the stands.
This happened today. Someone got it right.

Geography is their friend.
Title: Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
Post by: wilber on July 29, 2020, 02:56:01 pm
Geography is their friend.


True but they were also very proactive about dealing with this early. They didnít screw around while things gradually got worse.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53274085