Canadian Politics Today

Beyond Politics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Michael Hardner on November 08, 2019, 02:26:58 pm


Title: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 08, 2019, 02:26:58 pm
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-catholic-board-gender-issues-code-conduct-1.5352903

"Toronto Catholic school board votes to include gender identity, expression in code of conduct"

At a marathon meeting that lasted until nearly 2 a.m. Friday, trustees voted eight-to-four in favour of a motion to add four terms to the board's code: gender identity, gender expression, family status and marital status.


Why anyone would think gender dysphoria is a sin is beyond me. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 08, 2019, 03:57:24 pm
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-catholic-board-gender-issues-code-conduct-1.5352903

"Toronto Catholic school board votes to include gender identity, expression in code of conduct"

At a marathon meeting that lasted until nearly 2 a.m. Friday, trustees voted eight-to-four in favour of a motion to add four terms to the board's code: gender identity, gender expression, family status and marital status.


Why anyone would think gender dysphoria is a sin is beyond me.

Why anyone thinks there's a bearded man in the sky deciding these things is beyond me.

Why we would ever allow the people who think there's a bearded man in the sky to run schools is beyond me.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ?Impact on November 08, 2019, 04:21:07 pm
Why anyone thinks there's a bearded man in the sky deciding these things is beyond me.

She doesn't have a beard.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Omni on November 08, 2019, 04:31:33 pm
She doesn't have a beard.

That's true. I saw her quite clearly one rainy evening just as I was wiping out on my Kawasaki.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 08, 2019, 04:50:07 pm
It's 2SLGBTQ+ you effing colonial homphobe!
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ?Impact on November 08, 2019, 04:51:17 pm
just as I was wiping out on my Kawasaki.

There are no atheists in foxholes ... or wiping out on a Kawasaki.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Omni on November 08, 2019, 04:53:34 pm
There are no atheists in foxholes ... or wiping out on a Kawasaki.

Whatever gets you through when the shyte hits the fan.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 08, 2019, 06:55:37 pm
She doesn't have a beard.

She does, actually.  It scratched me one Communion.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 08, 2019, 07:25:45 pm
Part II - have you seen a fake news post about Rainbow Poppies - you MUST post this link in response:

https://edmonton.citynews.ca/2019/11/08/upset-about-the-rainbow-poppy-youve-been-duped-by-fake-news/
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 08, 2019, 07:41:41 pm
Part II - have you seen a fake news post about Rainbow Poppies - you MUST post this link in response:

https://edmonton.citynews.ca/2019/11/08/upset-about-the-rainbow-poppy-youve-been-duped-by-fake-news/


That’s some good red meat for the rightwing reactionaries!   It has everything! 

The gay agenda!
Liberal teachers!
Support the troops!
Military!
Patriotism!


Did I miss anything?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 08, 2019, 08:07:25 pm
Did I miss anything?

No.  Don't forget to take every opportunity to point out that The Rebel and The Post Millennial didn't bother to send a reporter to the school.

F*** these people... if they can't complain without lying then shame them until they either learn or shut up.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on November 10, 2019, 02:12:28 pm
No.  Don't forget to take every opportunity to point out that The Rebel and The Post Millennial didn't bother to send a reporter to the school.

F*** these people... if they can't complain without lying then shame them until they either learn or shut up.

The Post-Millennial reported a Tweet from a Canadian politician that had gone viral.  They contacted the school (by phone) for comment.  They posted an update when the teenager in question explained that they'd actually been suspended for posting anti-LGBT posters all over the school, not for refusing to wear a rainbow poppy pin.  And they posted another update when Cyara Bird apologized and conceded that she had the facts completely wrong.

People were certainly lied to by Cyara Bird and her niece.  There's an argument to be made that Post-Millennial shouldn't have reported on the tweet at all, but if this was a controversy that had already gone viral on Twitter, then I don't agree.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on November 10, 2019, 02:15:02 pm
It's 2SLGBTQ+ you effing colonial homphobe!

I don't feel any kinship with the Alphabet Soup Alliance.  Get the L Out!

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 10, 2019, 02:26:49 pm
  There's an argument to be made that Post-Millennial shouldn't have reported on the tweet at all...

Yes.  That is the argument.  You don't post stories on unverified tweets.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 10, 2019, 02:27:49 pm
I don't feel any kinship with the Alphabet Soup Alliance.  Get the L Out!

 -k

You are a verified L... stand up for your brothers, sisters and xisters...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on November 11, 2019, 06:48:45 pm
You are a verified L... stand up for your brothers, sisters and xisters...

I used to feel like part of the team, but now I've discovered I'm actually a privileged white cis oppressor. I'm actually okay with it.  Being on the top is kind of exciting. I feel empowered.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on November 11, 2019, 07:14:44 pm
It's 2SLGBTQ+ you effing colonial homphobe!

Queer, Trans, Intersex, Black and People of Colour (QTIBPOC) is now where it's at.  Us cis white homos have to stand at the back with the straight people.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on November 11, 2019, 07:42:46 pm
It's 2SLGBTQ+ you effing colonial homphobe!

I feel LGBTQ2SIAPWTF+ is so disjointed as to have no common purpose or meaning.

Q-- "queer" is meaningless.

2S-- "two spirit" is basically just indigenous gay people.  "two spirit" was coined by a white guy named Harry Hay, who was a gay activist and counter-culture weirdo, not an anthropologist or historian.  The scholarship behind the claim that "two spirit" people were ever revered by any indigenous cultures is pretty sketchy.

I-- "intersex" is a physical anomaly, not a sexual orientation.

A-- "asexual" is a sexual orientation in the same way that "atheism" is a religion or "off" is a TV channel.

P-- "pansexual" is a sexual orientation in the same sense that "whatever!" is a TV channel.  A pansexual is a bisexual who thinks there are more than two sexes.

There's really just LGB, and T.  L, G, B are sexual orientations, and T is the notion that sexual orientation is fake and gender is real. I don't see much common ground there.  I see increasingly less common ground as lesbians are shamed, threatened, harrassed, doxxed, and even beaten up for not wanting "girl dick" in their lives.

Get the L out!

 -k


Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Super Colin Blow on November 11, 2019, 07:46:32 pm
I feel LGBTQ2SIAPWTF+ is so disjointed as to have no common purpose or meaning.

Q-- "queer" is meaningless.

2S-- "two spirit" is basically just indigenous gay people.  "two spirit" was coined by a white guy named Harry Hay, who was a gay activist and counter-culture weirdo, not an anthropologist or historian.  The scholarship behind the claim that "two spirit" people were ever revered by any indigenous cultures is pretty sketchy.

I-- "intersex" is a physical anomaly, not a sexual orientation.

A-- "asexual" is a sexual orientation in the same way that "atheism" is a religion or "off" is a TV channel.

P-- "pansexual" is a sexual orientation in the same sense that "whatever!" is a TV channel.  A pansexual is a bisexual who thinks there are more than two sexes.

There's really just LGB, and T.  L, G, B are sexual orientations, and T is the notion that sexual orientation is fake and gender is real. I don't see much common ground there.  I see increasingly less common ground as lesbians are shamed, threatened, harrassed, doxxed, and even beaten up for not wanting "girl dick" in their lives.

Get the L out!

 -k

Being gay myself, I have to say, this whole abbreviation thing is getting out of control. Why not call it the Q or Q+ community for short? How about the "Q Continuum" for us Star Trek fans?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on November 11, 2019, 07:57:32 pm
Got to admit, it makes my eyes roll. It's just too hard to take seriously, it looks like a computer generated password. It has eight characters, the only thing missing is one lower case letter.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Omni on November 11, 2019, 08:00:13 pm
Got to admit, it makes my eyes roll. It's just too hard to take seriously, it looks like a computer generated password. It has eight characters, the only thing missing is one lower case letter.

And perhaps a digit or two.....

I mean the numerical type.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on November 11, 2019, 08:07:55 pm
And perhaps a digit or two.....

I mean the numerical type.

Most passwords require a minimum of one number, one symbol, one upper, one lower case letter and a minimum of eight characters. The only thing missing is the one lower case letter.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Omni on November 11, 2019, 08:42:04 pm
Most passwords require a minimum of one number, one symbol, one upper, one lower case letter and a minimum of eight characters. The only thing missing is the one lower case letter.

I was rolling my eyes as well.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: cybercoma on November 12, 2019, 08:33:29 am
I feel LGBTQ2SIAPWTF+ is so disjointed as to have no common purpose or meaning.

Q-- "queer" is meaningless.

2S-- "two spirit" is basically just indigenous gay people.  "two spirit" was coined by a white guy named Harry Hay, who was a gay activist and counter-culture weirdo, not an anthropologist or historian.  The scholarship behind the claim that "two spirit" people were ever revered by any indigenous cultures is pretty sketchy.

I-- "intersex" is a physical anomaly, not a sexual orientation.

A-- "asexual" is a sexual orientation in the same way that "atheism" is a religion or "off" is a TV channel.

P-- "pansexual" is a sexual orientation in the same sense that "whatever!" is a TV channel.  A pansexual is a bisexual who thinks there are more than two sexes.

There's really just LGB, and T.  L, G, B are sexual orientations, and T is the notion that sexual orientation is fake and gender is real. I don't see much common ground there.  I see increasingly less common ground as lesbians are shamed, threatened, harrassed, doxxed, and even beaten up for not wanting "girl dick" in their lives.

Get the L out!

 -k
Your transphobia is pretty disgusting, but hey...you do you. Your posts to trans people are what Argus's posts are to immigrants. You're generally reasonable about all things, but as soon as someone doesn't fit your idea of gender conformity/normativity, you lose all rationality. In fact, the more I read your posts about trans people, the more it looks a lot like "separate but equal" nonsense that racists were spouting during the Jim Crow Era. It reads exactly like that kind of hedging. "I don't hate trans people. I have trans friends. I just don't see them as part of the LGB community." You seriously hate trans people and gender queers so much that you refuse to recognize their place in the community and consequently deny pansexuals their orientation as well. It's pretty **** up and so beneath you....or at least what i guess was my mistaken impression of you.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Super Colin Blow on November 12, 2019, 08:57:28 am
Your transphobia is pretty disgusting, but hey...you do you. Your posts to trans people are what Argus's posts are to immigrants. You're generally reasonable about all things, but as soon as someone doesn't fit your idea of gender conformity/normativity, you lose all rationality. In fact, the more I read your posts about trans people, the more it looks a lot like "separate but equal" nonsense that racists were spouting during the Jim Crow Era. It reads exactly like that kind of hedging. "I don't hate trans people. I have trans friends. I just don't see them as part of the LGB community." You seriously hate trans people and gender queers so much that you refuse to recognize their place in the community and consequently deny pansexuals their orientation as well. It's pretty **** up and so beneath you....or at least what i guess was my mistaken impression of you.

now, now...no need for personal attacks.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on November 15, 2019, 03:20:44 am
Your transphobia is pretty disgusting, but hey...you do you. Your posts to trans people are what Argus's posts are to immigrants.

I used to care, but I just can't anymore. A few years ago when people were fighting against "bathroom bills" I was all on board. And now every day I read about some new idiocy that just makes me want to puke. Transwomen winning medals in weightlifting and track and field. Rapists and murderers declaring themselves female and getting transferred to women's prisons. Some anime-obsessed cat-girl weeaboo telling lesbians they're transphobic for not wanting to suck her "girl-dick".  Some transwoman joining an endometriosis support group to police people's pronouns and remind everybody that not all women have a uterus.  Eradicating any meaning from the word "woman" to redefine it as  some vague notion or feeling.  I just can't stand it anymore.  At this point, being called transphobic just means I'm in good company.


. You're generally reasonable about all things, but as soon as someone doesn't fit your idea of gender conformity/normativity, you lose all rationality.

I'm gender non-conforming myself.  My circle of friends and acquaintances is full of gender non-conforming people-- including butch lesbians, effeminate gay men, and people of both sexes who present themselves androgynously in  varying degress.  I'm very much in favor of gender non-conformity. What myself and the gender non-conforming people I know all have in common is that none of us are under the impression that our gender expression changes the fact that we're still women and men.

"non-binary" is a self-contradictory concept, because a gender binary doesn't exist in our society. I've never seen any non-binary person explain their gender identity without referencing harmful stereotypes.    The latest thing I've seen is "non-binary lesbians". That's an oxymoron. Imagine the mental gymnastics required to explain yourself as non-binary, but also a gay woman.

In fact, the more I read your posts about trans people, the more it looks a lot like "separate but equal" nonsense that racists were spouting during the Jim Crow Era.

Trans activists always try to draw this parallel, and it never works. Because race isn't sex.  Racial discrimination has been struck down over and over again, while sex-based protections for women and girls have been upheld over and over again.

  It reads exactly like that kind of hedging. "I don't hate trans people. I have trans friends. I just don't see them as part of the LGB community." You seriously hate trans people and gender queers so much that you refuse to recognize their place in the community and consequently deny pansexuals their orientation as well.

We're at the point now that the linked-Venus symbol that was the widely-recognized emblem for lesbians has been banned from some Pride events because it's considered "transphobic", and the "Dyke March" is being run by transwomen.  Gay organizations and gay media outlets are run by gay men and transwomen; gay women are an afterthought in all of this. Female people are non-existent in leadership in the  Look at the events that got Edmonton Pride cancelled last summer: black women with dicks fighting with white men with dicks.  Misogyny and chauvinism has been a problem for the gay community since day one, and it hasn't changed.

I'm not represented in that community, and I guess I never was.  It's going to burn itself to the ground before much longer, and I'll be glad when it does.


It's pretty **** up and so beneath you....or at least what i guess was my mistaken impression of you.

I figured. When you stop drinking the Kool-Aid the rest of the cult turns against you.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 02, 2019, 12:19:18 am
I get the impression that a lot of people are still confused about divisions forming within the LGBTQ2SIAWTF+ "community". Why is there conflict? Aren't we a big happy family?

Well, not so much. On the inside, conversations like this are happening. To set the stage, this is a PSA for members of a trans-inclusive Facebook group for lesbians.  Trans-inclusive lesbian groups have apparently started using the word "Sapphic" because some people feel that "lesbian" sounds too TERFish.   Anyway, they politely asked their members to be more trans-positive by finding alternative ways to say "I'm not into chicks with dicks", and instead got mansplained.  Or Ma'amsplained, as it were.  Here's how that went:

(https://i.imgur.com/PVZ3aV3.jpg)


Where are the vag1na-repulsed lesbians?  Where are the pen1s-repulsed gay men?  Where are the vegetable-repulsed vegans?

Gay women are told that there's something wrong with them if they're not interested in having sex with pen1s-people. We need to overcome our aversion to pen1s, perhaps through "therapy", so that we can be "converted", so to speak, into pen1s-positive people.

If this was coming from Jason Kenney types, people would easily recognize it for what it is: homophobia.

But because it's coming from a trans person, woke people think this is "progressive."

Woke people are too god-damned stupid to recognize homophobia if it's not coming from far-right knuckle-draggers.

It used to be that conservatives wanted lesbians to get over our aversion to pen1s, while progressives and the gay rights movement supported our right to live as we wish.  Now conservatives support lesbians living as we wish, while progressives and the GBTQ community want us to get over our aversion to pen1s. Progressives and our own supposed LGBT community have stabbed us in the back and thrown us under the bus. Woke people are garbage.





 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 02, 2019, 06:37:26 am
Is it coming from a trans person ?  Who is posting this ?

It seems like there's a discussion to be had.  So have it.  Someone has made a suggestion for how to look at such things, so give a response.

"Woke people are garbage" means you have given up on a resolution and are just going to fight, not helpful.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 02, 2019, 11:26:22 am
There's a difference between women and trans women that people need to acknowledge.  They're not the same, they have a different biology.  It's fine to be attracted to one and not the other or vice versa.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 02, 2019, 11:52:42 am
People now have to be "re-educated" to straighten out their dong preferences? Sounds a hell of a lot like conversion therapy to me.

I had to use dong because the auto censor doesn't allow the P word.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 03, 2019, 02:33:13 am
Is it coming from a trans person ?  Who is posting this ?

The response is from a trans woman, not that it matters, because allies and supporters and woke-people in general have been parroting that idea.

It seems like there's a discussion to be had.  So have it.  Someone has made a suggestion for how to look at such things, so give a response.

"Woke people are garbage" means you have given up on a resolution and are just going to fight, not helpful.

What really is there to discuss?

Progressives have decreed that "trans women are women" is not up for discussion. The GBTQ movement has decreed that transbians are lesbians and belong in lesbian spaces, and that that's not up for discussion either.

So what is the discussion to be had?  Whether gay women should be shamed and bullied for not wanting pen1s in their sex lives?  Whether there's something wrong with women who feel an aversion to pen1s?  Whether gay women need therapy to overcome their "genital preferences"?  I don't think any of this is up for discussion either, because it's 2019 and not 1950.  I think that anybody-- be it knuckle-dragging Bible-thumpers or woke idiots-- who'd advocate for those things is pretty clearly my enemy, and you bet I'm ready to fight them.

So what opportunity for discussion are you seeing in all this?  I don't see any ground for compromise.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 03, 2019, 06:57:27 am
Well we're discussing it right now.

There are many things that remain to be discussed.  You don't have to be part of the discussion, but then say that.

It's weird to me that you are so defeatist on this topic, but you still do bring it up.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: cybercoma on December 03, 2019, 08:30:30 am
Well we're discussing it right now.

There are many things that remain to be discussed.  You don't have to be part of the discussion, but then say that.

It's weird to me that you are so defeatist on this topic, but you still do bring it up.
It's weird to me that kimmy brings up extremist viewpoints and tries to paint an entire group of people with them. It's identical to Argus and others using ISIS as the definitional example of Islam, yet wouldn't dream to think of the White Nationalist Evangelical Christians as the definition of Christianity. Really, this just says more about the people committing the fallacy than it says about the people they're vilifying.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 03, 2019, 10:03:30 am
This old guy doesn't understand half of this alphabet crap but a few things come to mind.

A: I have two grand daughters who excel at a sport which could quite possibly be dominated by women with dicks. One of them is presently at university with an athletic scholarship. Hopefully her younger sister can follow. That concerns me.
B: Why is it only women are having to bear the consequences of all this nonsense?
C: Where do men get off telling them how they should feel about it?

Thank You.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 03, 2019, 10:19:59 am
Well we're discussing it right now.

There are many things that remain to be discussed.  You don't have to be part of the discussion, but then say that.

It's weird to me that you are so defeatist on this topic, but you still do bring it up.

I bring this stuff up partly out of a need to vent, and partly in hope that some people might read it and say "wait, I didn't realize this was going on" and think twice about blindly supporting trans activism.  I think there is a lot of stuff going on that regular well-intentioned people simply don't know about, but would find highly questionable if they did know about it. And the few people who do try to bring attention to it are silenced and dismissed.

And regarding "overcome your genital preferences!" I just don't see any common ground that can be achieved. They're two mutually exclusive positions.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 03, 2019, 10:40:21 am
It's weird to me that kimmy brings up extremist viewpoints and tries to paint an entire group of people with them. It's identical to Argus and others using ISIS as the definitional example of Islam, yet wouldn't dream to think of the White Nationalist Evangelical Christians as the definition of Christianity. Really, this just says more about the people committing the fallacy than it says about the people they're vilifying.

One of the things that's exasperating in all of this is that people are so willing to just wave it away as an extremist viewpoint.   This is affecting too many women to be dismissed as extremism now.  I don't know what portion of transwomen believe that lesbians who don't want girldick are transphobes, but they're affecting a *lot* of lesbians.  Lesbians can't go on dating apps or lesbian spaces without being badgered for not wanting girldick in their lives, and I have read dozens of stories of women being stalked, doxxed, harassed at work, and even threatened with harm for saying no. 

This "overcome your genital fetish" idea isn't just something being spread among a few trans incels on Reddit, it's being promoted by mainstream trans activists including Rachel V McKinnon. They always preface it by saying something along the lines of "of course every woman has the right to say no to sex, but..." and then set about explaining why gay women who don't want girldick are actually terrible people or damaged in some way.  Cisnormative conditioning, blah blah blah, transphobia, blah blah, "if you won't date lesbians who don't match your genital preferences, you're just reducing women to their genitals, it's actually very misogynistic", blah blah blah, get therapy, etc.  This isn't something you can just dismiss as a few random kooks on reddit, it has become mainstream trans activism.


 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: cybercoma on December 03, 2019, 11:43:16 am
You're elevating the views of radicals by addressing them as if they even have merit. You are part of the problem that they're creating.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Granny on December 03, 2019, 11:56:44 am
Posting this with no particular personal perspective, just as another discussion on the topic.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/speaking-of-gender-a-national-post-debate-about-gender-identity-and-free-speech

I agree that trans people should not be reduced to their genitals, that are generally no one's business except themselves, their doctors and their sexual partners.
On the issue of sexual partners, I agree with kimmy: one is attracted to who they are attracted too. Trying to bully people into being attracted to you has never been an attractive strategy: Quite the opposite. So on the latter point, I agree with kimmy that one has a right to choose sexual partners they are attracted to.

It's never pleasant when you turn someone down and they whine and complain and badmouth you, but it happens. It makes them even less attractive, not moreso. Sex is not a 'right', it's a mutual choice.
You can walk away and ignore, but unfortunately,  you can't stop them from whining.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 03, 2019, 12:27:40 pm
 
C: Where do men get off telling them how they should feel about it?

Thank You.

I agree that maybe men shouldn't really be a big part of this discussion, yet here we are.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 03, 2019, 12:30:32 pm
I bring this stuff up partly out of a need to vent, and partly in hope that some people might read it and say "wait, I didn't realize this was going on" and think twice about blindly supporting trans activism.
 -k

Right, but if you don't want people to accept trans activism in its entirety then show some precision in your criticism.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: waldo on December 03, 2019, 12:38:03 pm
It's weird to me that kimmy brings up extremist viewpoints and tries to paint an entire group of people with them.
You're elevating the views of radicals by addressing them as if they even have merit. You are part of the problem that they're creating.

against: (elevating) the extremism; the enabling of, "scaremongering conspiracy theories leveled at the trans community"; peddlers of, "the current narrative that trans people as bullies and aggressors"...

(https://i.imgur.com/7Og10Qd.png)
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 03, 2019, 06:06:43 pm
I think we as a society are trying to figure out how to fit transgenderism into a word that's forever been dominated by 2 clear genders and nothing in between.

It will be messy as we figure this out.  ie: transgender women who are biologically male will compete against biological cis women, until we figure out that this isn't a very good idea and isn't going to work...so we'll figure something else out.

I'm hoping sanity eventually prevails and reasonable accommodations will be made.  In the meantime, people will **** off kimmy as they try weird stuff and push the envelope.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 03, 2019, 06:24:29 pm
1. I think we as a society are trying to figure out how to fit transgenderism into a word that's forever been dominated by 2 clear genders and nothing in between.

2. It will be messy as we figure this out.  ie: transgender women who are biologically male will compete against biological cis women, until we figure out that this isn't a very good idea and isn't going to work...so we'll figure something else out.

3. I'm hoping sanity eventually prevails and reasonable accommodations will be made.  In the meantime, people will **** off kimmy as they try weird stuff and push the envelope.

1. Yes and so tricky conversations have to happen.  Some things that won't help: vilifying the 'other' side, or holding up crazy extremists as the centre, refusing to dialogue.  I'm not talking about anyone in particular here

2. Messy.  But it's possible.  We don't have disabled people compete with abled people and the world continues.  We don't have men compete with women and the world continues.  This will be worked out.

3. As much as kimmy says she is sick of the dialogue, she is engaging in it and has convinced me of a few things through her seethes (ex. telling lesbians to love pen1s is offensive)
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 05, 2019, 04:20:57 am
You're elevating the views of radicals by addressing them as if they even have merit. You are part of the problem that they're creating.

Ignoring bad ideas doesn't make them go away.  If you want evidence of that, you need only look at the rise of the anti-vax movement, or the MAGA movement, or the rise of the alt-right in general, or the return of the Flat Earthers, to name a few.   This notion that sexual orientation is actually a "gender preference" that can be unlearned has become widespread among the gender theory people, and they're apparently too dense to see that they're spouting the same discredited nonsense that conversion therapy advocates claim.

And there's the question of how do we decide who we call a "radical".  Is Rachel V McKinnon a radical? She's among those who feel "cisgender" lesbians need to "get over their genital hangups", and she's treated as a legitimate trans advocate by mainstream media outlets like the CBC.   If the supposedly "for lesbians by lesbians" websites that endorsed the "Not in Our Name" letter publish think-pieces by transbians chiding "cisgender" lesbians to reexamine their genital preferences, is it still a radical viewpoint?   Riley J Dennis is a popular transbian Youtube personality who has been pushing this notion for a long time.  Arielle Scarcella is a popular lesbian Youtube personality who has received a ton of abuse for pushing back against the idea that sexual orientation is just a gender preference that can be overcome-- the sheer volume of criticism against her indicates that a lot of people are mad at her for pushing back against it.

Unlike ISIS and violent extremists in Islam, this notion does actually have some amount of traction on Main Street.  You're more likely to get hit by lightning or win the lottery than to be hurt by a Muslim extremist. But if you're a lesbian in a lesbian space (or cyber space, or dating app) you're very likely to get approached by sex by a "transbian" who probably feels it's your moral responsibility to "overcome your genital fetish".  I have heard these stories over and over again from gay women who were trans-friendly and trans-supportive until they had these kinds of experiences in the real world.


 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 05, 2019, 05:19:52 am
against: (elevating) the extremism; the enabling of, "scaremongering conspiracy theories leveled at the trans community"; peddlers of, "the current narrative that trans people as bullies and aggressors"...

(https://i.imgur.com/7Og10Qd.png)

I remember when that came out.   

One of the most striking things about it is how it brushes aside the voices of anybody who isn't onboard with their agenda. It's somewhat Baghdad Bob-esque in proclaiming solidarity in spite of plenty of evidence to the contrary.  "There are no dissenting lesbians in our community! In fact a few crossed the border but they were swiftly beaten to death with their own strap-ons!" 

And no mention of the legitimate concerns of anybody who doesn't agree.  The women talking about their experiences must be liars! #BelieveWomen ... unless they're saying something that's inconvenient! Lesbians being pressured to accept girldick? Never happens! Transbians bullying cis-women in lesbians spaces? A myth!  "There are no aggressive transbians in our community! In fact a few crossed the border but they were swiftly beaten to death with their own waifu-pillows!"

It reads like a propaganda piece from a totalitarian regime, and like in a totalitarian regime one expects that dissenters will face Struggle Sessions to reeducate them and put them on the glorious path.


The context of the "Not in Our Name" letter is that it's just another shot in a long-running feud between Autostraddle and AfterEllen. Autostraddle and the others are all trying to sell their readers on the virtues of girldick, while AfterEllen is the only major lesbian website left that hasn't hopped on the baloney pony.  AfterEllen's response to the letter:

Quote
On the surface, the statement appears to be support for the transgender community. But then it goes on to state “we strongly condemn writers and editors”…. and that isn’t a positive statement of support, it’s rather an attempt to demonize anyone who has views they don’t deem acceptable, to call them “hate speech” and in particular our colleague Arielle Scarcella, who has been attacked for her response videos over the last couple of years.

If 10 YouTubers put out a video telling young lesbians that same-sex attraction is a “preference” and “bigoted” and can be “unlearned,” and a lesbian leader, such as Arielle Scarcella, puts out a response, telling young lesbians that innate same-sex attraction is not a “preference” and it can’t be “unlearned,” she’s faced with tremendous backlash and homophobia.

Given those underlying details, the statement is a very clear manipulation to throw women under the bus. This virtue-signaling by some extremists on the left is not something that AfterEllen wants to be a part of. Arielle has done a lot for the community and she has support from thousands of LGBT followers.

(...)

Since AfterEllen is the only mainstream lesbian publication still remaining, that focuses on issues as they specifically pertain to and affect lesbians, we have a moral obligation to give young lesbians (who are feeling scared or depressed and filling our inboxes) a voice. When lesbians are called “**** fetishists” with “genital preferences,” AfterEllen should be allowed to address those issues without backlash. Resorting to name-calling and bizarre accusations as a means of silencing the lesbian community needs to stop.

Being an ally should not require lesbians to deny their own reality. It should not require lesbians to relinquish all autonomy, to believe exactly as others do, or fall silent.

(...)

This goes much deeper than a simple statement. There’s been an ongoing campaign of homophobia directed exclusively at lesbians, and when our writers try to cover these issues, as they specifically pertain to and affect lesbians, we’re shouted down by non-lesbians with slurs and anti-lesbian sentiment. Enough is enough.

Promoting this kind of false narrative only creates more anxiety in the lesbian community, a community that’s already suffering. Lesbians are by far the most statistically unrepresented and underfunded letter within the acronym.

AfterEllen is with everyone, but first and foremost we have a moral obligation to provide a voice to the most silenced group within the acronym, and right now that is Lesbians.

https://www.afterellen.com/general-news/568835-afterellens-response-to-nbc-out

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 05, 2019, 05:40:48 am
1. Ignoring bad ideas doesn't make them go away.  If you want evidence of that, you need only look at the rise of the anti-vax movement, or the MAGA movement, or the rise of the alt-right in general, or the return of the Flat Earthers, to name a few.   

2. This notion that sexual orientation is actually a "gender preference" that can be unlearned has become widespread among the gender theory people, and they're apparently too dense to see that they're spouting the same discredited nonsense that conversion therapy advocates claim.

3. And there's the question of how do we decide who we call a "radical".  Is Rachel V McKinnon a radical? She's among those who feel "cisgender" lesbians need to "get over their genital hangups", and she's treated as a legitimate trans advocate by mainstream media outlets like the CBC.   If the supposedly "for lesbians by lesbians" websites that endorsed the "Not in Our Name" letter publish think-pieces by transbians chiding "cisgender" lesbians to reexamine their genital preferences, is it still a radical viewpoint?   Riley J Dennis is a popular transbian Youtube personality who has been pushing this notion for a long time.  Arielle Scarcella is a popular lesbian Youtube personality who has received a ton of abuse for pushing back against the idea that sexual orientation is just a gender preference that can be overcome-- the sheer volume of criticism against her indicates that a lot of people are mad at her for pushing back against it.

4. Unlike ISIS and violent extremists in Islam, this notion does actually have some amount of traction on Main Street.  You're more likely to get hit by lightning or win the lottery than to be hurt by a Muslim extremist. But if you're a lesbian in a lesbian space (or cyber space, or dating app) you're very likely to get approached by sex by a "transbian" who probably feels it's your moral responsibility to "overcome your genital fetish".  I have heard these stories over and over again from gay women who were trans-friendly and trans-supportive until they had these kinds of experiences in the real world.


My post is going to be about advancing your ideas of framing.

1. Flat earth arguably gained traction when people started talking about it as the joke that it is, though.  But I am thinking about knowledge differently now and the 'catchiness' of a meme is something we can't stop I suppose.

2. So there was a bad idea that some people know about.. and now *I* know about it because the people who want to turn that idea down argued about it in channels like this, or it made it to the Sun (for angertainment reasons) for white cis male consumption.  Ok.

3. Good question.  Why don't you try answering it ?  Is it fringe ideas that make radicals, or radicals making fringe ideas ?  Where do these people belong in the topology of public dialogue ?

4. Quantification is still a great go-to for objective knowledge.  The last time we discussed hard numbers on this you produced a study (good) with a bad methodology (bad).  I am truly interested in any data on this topic.

And as much as you are impacted by this personally, I urge you to think about separating your personal feelings when you post about it.  If you care about publicizing it, then objectivity will help you achieve this.  You have convinced me there's something there but it's hard for me to read your posts when they're marbled with vitriol.  Your feelings are valid, but you can actually make a difference to a minor degree if you dampen them in your arguments. 

And yes, it doesn't matter, but what we post here doesn't really matter beyond being a reflection of ourselves.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: cybercoma on December 05, 2019, 01:52:32 pm
kimmy, I still hold that you’re elevating the views of an extremist minority who are probably being amplified by alt-right propaganda to undermine trans rights more generally. The more I read about Yaniv and “her” idiocy, the more I’m convinced “she” isn’t really trans at all—the latest scenario being “her” demanding to see an OBGYN.

Stop elevating extremists and undermining the valid and legitimate effort of trans people and their fight for human rights and dignity. You’re spending far more time highlighting garbage people with garbage view instead of the real concerns of the trans community more broadly. Consequently, you are part of the problem. You undermine the real fight by focusing on idiots whose sole purpose is to make trans people look bad. Frankly, I’m pretty sure this propaganda is being amplified by the alt-right and Russian troll farms looking to drive wedge in society to make people more distrustful of one another. This division corrupts and disables democratic institutions.

Stop contributing to the problem. Start fighting for the people who actually need to be supported and stop making celebrities out of ****.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 06, 2019, 02:37:58 am
kimmy, I still hold that you’re elevating the views of an extremist minority who are probably being amplified by alt-right propaganda to undermine trans rights more generally.

This isn't just coming from the Yanivs of the world, or basement dwelling anime-obsessed Cat-girl trans-incels on Reddit.  This is coming from sites like Autostraddle and the other signatories to the "Not in Our Name" letter, which are what passes for mainstream media in the LGBTQ "community". And from allegedly mainstream trans advocates like Rachel V McKinnon, who has a new article in the New York Times again today.  If these are "radical" ideas then why are supposedly mainstream LGBTQ websites and activists promoting them?

The more I read about Yaniv and “her” idiocy, the more I’m convinced “she” isn’t really trans at all—the latest scenario being “her” demanding to see an OBGYN.

Yaniv is trans because "she" says she's trans.  That's the law of the land.  It's also what trans advocates have been demanding-- the right to self-identify without any gatekeeping. "I am because I say I am." 

Yaniv may be mentally ill. Yaniv may be cynically using Canada's new gender ID laws as a means to file bogus human rights complaints for financial gain. Yaniv may be a sexual predator using self-ID to gain access to womens spaces and to gain the trust of adolescent girls (another incident last week involving Yaniv's online sexual contact with an underage girl, the latest of many).  Personally, I think Yaniv is probably all three-- a sex predator, a predatory litigant, and someone with mental health issues.  None of those things actually change the fact that under Canadian law, Yaniv is trans.  The trans community doesn't get to disown Yaniv because "she" is causing them bad press. Yaniv's right to gender expression is guaranteed under law and isn't open for debate. 

You have heard a lot about Yaniv, primarily because she has made a gigantic spectacle of herself, but also because she's the case that changes the argument from "that would never happen" to "well, you have to break a few eggs."  Yaniv is just an example that illustrates the issue. There will be more Yanivs, because this self-ID is tailor made to be exploited by predators and malicious individuals.


And then there's the question of what "really trans" actually means.  It used to be that being "really trans" meant having gender dysphoria.  Now that's considered gatekeeping.  Those who hold to that belief are called "truscum" and vilified within the trans community by other trans people who consider it "invalidating".  Being trans is no longer necessarily a result of a psychological condition of any sort. Some point to "gender euphoria", a state of delight obtained by expressing their gender identity.  (in olden times this might have been described as a "crossdressing fetish"...)   It's entirely possible than Yaniv feels the same "gender euphoria" that other trans people speak of.  So... what right do we have to question whether Yaniv is "really trans"?  The only criterion the law sets out for determining if someone is "really trans" is that they say they are.


Stop elevating extremists and undermining the valid and legitimate effort of trans people and their fight for human rights and dignity. You’re spending far more time highlighting garbage people with garbage view instead of the real concerns of the trans community more broadly. Consequently, you are part of the problem. You undermine the real fight by focusing on idiots whose sole purpose is to make trans people look bad. Frankly, I’m pretty sure this propaganda is being amplified by the alt-right and Russian troll farms looking to drive wedge in society to make people more distrustful of one another. This division corrupts and disables democratic institutions.

Stop contributing to the problem. Start fighting for the people who actually need to be supported and stop making celebrities out of ****.

I am fighting for the people who actually need support. The woke left is so focused on supporting trans people that they've forgotten that the lesbians on the receiving end of all of this conditioning and grooming and bullying are people with their own needs and their own struggle.  They need support too, especially young ones who are struggling with their sexual identity.

This is one of those Arielle Scarcella videos that Autostraddle and friends deemed transphobic. (https://youtu.be/9D_lK8cwmgg?t=245)  After making light of the push to promote "girldick" and shame lesbians for not wanting it, she gets to her main point which is that this stuff impacts real people, like the teenage girl who wrote this letter:

(https://i.imgur.com/wxxNtFA.png)

That girl isn't a prop or an extra in somebody else's journey. She's a person with her own needs who has been harmed. Somebody needs to stand up for her, and it's clearly not going to be Autostraddle or the woke left.  Trans people have Autostraddle and an army of well-funded activists and lobbyists and politicians going to bat for them.  The girl that wrote that letter has nobody standing up for her.  Arielle Scarcella decided to be the person who stands up for her and for girls like her, even though it has gotten her labeled a "TERF" and a transphobe. If it's transphobic to tell the rest of the world that this rhetoric is hurting real people, then I am going to be transphobic too.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 06, 2019, 03:11:02 am
3.  I think the definition of radical changes over time.  At one point women  voting or working outside the home was a radical idea. The idea that the earth is flat is a radical idea to most of us, but it's a foundational idea for flat earthers.  The idea that a celestial being impregnated a virgin who gave birth to a savior who got nailed to a crucifix and rose from the dead 3 days later is a radical idea, but it's a foundational idea for Christians.  Where does the idea that lesbians need to be accepting of "girldick" stand at present?  Tough to say, but seems to have a lot of traction right now.


Why do you think it has a lot of traction ? 

You are not engaging on that topic because it's worth considering, or it's being debated in the general population IMO but because it enrages you. 

That's fine too but look objectively at how that idea has travelled through the mechanics and flow of the "marketplace of ideas".  It's a new thing, or at least a re-discovering of an old and forgotten way that the system works:

1. Outrageous idea is developed by fringe dwellers
2. Intelligent people become away of said idea and are outraged
3. Intelligent people bring the idea into general discussion
4. Now the general population is aware of it

This all seems like a new flow that happens because of angertainment.

Quote
4.  My point in giving you that survey to read was less to give you quantification, and more to illustrate the kind of experiences lesbians are having with trans women.  It's flawed because it's an opt-in voluntary survey, but the same criticism can be made of the surveys that allegedly show an "epidemic of violence" against trans people.  Those are also voluntary opt-in surveys, but woke people take them as gospel truth.  I don't dismiss those surveys entirely, though, because they do illustrate that trans people do face a lot of abusive and frightening situations.  I think you should view the lesbians survey in the same light.


Experience is valid, but doesn't scale to the level of 'general problem'.  I believe the surveys I have read had good methodology but I will look again.

You don't have to quote a survey to get me to care about your personal and specific experience.  That is important and has a role to play.

Quote

5.  Some of this stuff makes me furious, and it's hard for me to present it even-keel sometimes


I hear you and I care.

The way I think of such things is that you have to balance between:

"You can't legislate everything"
and
"We must ensure actions so that we can try to make sure [XYZ] never happens"
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 06, 2019, 06:35:15 am
In order:

1.  I think that's highly debatable. I think that what has really gained Flat Earth a lot of traction in recent years is the power of social media.  It gives stupid people a way to share stupid ideas with other stupid people without having to go through any sort of gatekeeper.  I think anti-vax and MAGA and the alt-right have done the same.

2. Does it concern you that you only hear about the down-side of this stuff when the Sun publishes an "angertainment" article or when the kimmo goes on a rant?  Last week the Sun published an "angertainment" article about male violent offenders declaring themselves transgender and transferring to womens prisons. While recognizing the Sun's shortcomings as a journalism outlet...  shouldn't some more reputable publication look into that story?

3.  I think the definition of radical changes over time.  At one point women voting or working outside the home was a radical idea. The idea that the earth is flat is a radical idea to most of us, but it's a foundational idea for flat earthers.  The idea that a celestial being impregnated a virgin who gave birth to a savior who got nailed to a crucifix and rose from the dead 3 days later is a radical idea, but it's a foundational idea for Christians.  Where does the idea that lesbians need to be accepting of "girldick" stand at present?  Tough to say, but seems to have a lot of traction right now.

4.  My point in giving you that survey to read was less to give you quantification, and more to illustrate the kind of experiences lesbians are having with trans women.  It's flawed because it's an opt-in voluntary survey, but the same criticism can be made of the surveys that allegedly show an "epidemic of violence" against trans people.  Those are also voluntary opt-in surveys, but woke people take them as gospel truth.  I don't dismiss those surveys entirely, though, because they do illustrate that trans people do face a lot of abusive and frightening situations.  I think you should view the lesbians survey in the same light.

5.  Some of this stuff makes me furious, and it's hard for me to present it even-keel sometimes.

 -k

1. Agreed.  I just posted a podcast that talks about how knowledge is different today: https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/general-discussion/podcast-culture/45/ Very relevant to all this.
2. A few thoughts: your rants are personal accounts and opinions, so I value them more than the Sun's angertainment bits.  The prison issue is much more serious than Yaniv's adventures in the waxing industry.  Yes, serious media should be covering that.  TBH if peoples' sensibilities can't get around the idea that violent people can't be housed with non-violent people then maybe that's how to frame it: violent people are actually currently housed with non-violent people.

3. 4. 5. later
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: cybercoma on December 06, 2019, 07:50:15 am
"The woke left" is the new calling card of the idiots who used to use "libtard."

Sorry, kimmy, but your posts are now wearing truck nuts. You've been lost to the propaganda machine and can't see the light.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Granny on December 06, 2019, 10:05:16 am
this stuff impacts real people, like the teenage girl who wrote this letter:

(https://i.imgur.com/wxxNtFA.png)

That girl isn't a prop or an extra in somebody else's journey. She's a person with her own needs who has been harmed. Somebody needs to stand up for her, and it's clearly not going to be Autostraddle or the woke left.  Trans people have Autostraddle and an army of well-funded activists and lobbyists and politicians going to bat for them.  The girl that wrote that letter has nobody standing up for her. 

I guess I don't understand your perception of the problem here: The girl has free choice to not have that particular gf if it isn't working out, chalk it up to a learning experience and choose differently in the future. Lousy sex partners who ignore a partner's needs are a dime a dozen, and deserve to be kicked to the curb.

I just don't see any undue element of coercion, any difference from anyone who determines that they've chosen the wrong partner.
"Standing up for her" ... how?
By telling her to break up with her partner?
That's her business.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 06, 2019, 06:16:44 pm
Sorry, kimmy, but your posts are now wearing truck nuts.

This is the best burn off the week.

Quote
You've been lost to the propaganda machine and can't see the light.

Why do you think everyone with non-left or "non-woke" views have been convinced to think so by some kind of rightwing propaganda?  But you yourself are immune to such propaganda?  Most people can think for themselves, and buy into messages based on their ideological biases.  I think it's these core ideological beliefs that are the crux of the matter.

Right and left will never get along, their core philosophical tenets are the exact opposites of each other, which is why they don't understand each other, and think the other as evil, stupid, demented or whatnot.  It's why you have such strong resentment for me and/or my opinions, and I of yours.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: cybercoma on December 06, 2019, 09:48:01 pm
It’s not about non left views...it’s about parroting propaganda and alt right buzz words.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 06, 2019, 11:11:58 pm
It’s not about non left views...it’s about parroting propaganda and alt right buzz words.

How do we define or determine what's propoganda?  Here's what you said earlier:

Quote
kimmy, I still hold that you’re elevating the views of an extremist minority who are probably being amplified by alt-right propaganda to undermine trans rights more generally. The more I read about Yaniv and “her” idiocy, the more I’m convinced “she” isn’t really trans at all—the latest scenario being “her” demanding to see an OBGYN.

Stop elevating extremists and undermining the valid and legitimate effort of trans people and their fight for human rights and dignity. You’re spending far more time highlighting garbage people with garbage view instead of the real concerns of the trans community more broadly. Consequently, you are part of the problem. You undermine the real fight by focusing on idiots whose sole purpose is to make trans people look bad.

Sure she's giving attention to the views of an radical minority, though that minority will push the boundaries until society or the law pushes back.  Yaniv isn't purely a troll, I mean her case went to the BC human rights tribunal, she was trying to push legal boundaries and set precedents, and the law pushed back.

Kimmy can still be for most trans rights, but not others that interfere with her rights, and that doesn't mean she's hurting all trans rights.  If some trans rights activists are pushing against "discriminatory genital preferences", which some are, even if a vocal minority, kimmy has the right to push back and say "no".  That doesn't mean all trans rights are illegitimate.

Quote
Frankly, I’m pretty sure this propaganda is being amplified by the alt-right and Russian troll farms looking to drive wedge in society to make people more distrustful of one another. This division corrupts and disables democratic institutions.

Where's the evidence for this? It sounds like a conspiracy theory.  I also don't know what alt-right has to do with trans rights.  Alt-right has to do with white nationalism.  Yes right-wing sites feature stories like Yaniv (though so does the CBC). I think most of these conservatives legit think these people and their ideas are nuts and drawing their lines in the sand too, as kimmy is.  Conservatives just might draw their lines different than kimmy when it comes to trans rights overall.

There's all sorts of social justice efforts that are great, but then people also need to draw a line in the sand, like this nonsense:  https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/apr/30/avengers-endgame-cinema-fat-shaming
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 06, 2019, 11:25:58 pm
Right and left will never get along, their core philosophical tenets are the exact opposites of each other, which is why they don't understand each other, and think the other as evil, stupid, demented or whatnot.  It's why you have such strong resentment for me and/or my opinions, and I of yours.

Except I’m about as left as they come....   and I hate SJW nonsense and “wokeness”.   It’s not a left v. Right issue.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 07, 2019, 07:36:19 am

Right and left will never get along, their core philosophical tenets are the exact opposites of each other, which is why they don't understand each other, and think the other as evil, stupid, demented or whatnot.   

Good post, except for one thing missing: team politics are not consistent, so they're the exact opposite of each other sometimes but don't line up with themselves either. The new right attitude opposes world trade and immigration because it hurts working people but still opposes unions.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 08, 2019, 11:21:44 pm
I guess I don't understand your perception of the problem here: The girl has free choice to not have that particular gf if it isn't working out, chalk it up to a learning experience and choose differently in the future. Lousy sex partners who ignore a partner's needs are a dime a dozen, and deserve to be kicked to the curb.

I just don't see any undue element of coercion, any difference from anyone who determines that they've chosen the wrong partner. 

I see someone who has been hurt by terrible ideas she has been fed by well-meaning idiots.

This girl is miserable because try as she might, she can't "overcome her genital preferences". She thinks she's broken and awful because she can't feel sexual attraction to her partner. She thinks there's something wrong with *her*.  She thinks she needs conversion therapy.

As trans people and their allies promote this regressive, homophobic notion that your sexual orientation is just a preference or a fetish that you can "work through" or "get over", people like this girl are the collateral damage.

For a very long time, gay people were made to believe that there was something wrong with them. And gay people were told that they could be "fixed" or "healed" if they prayed hard enough, or wished hard enough, or went to "conversion therapy".  The idea that gay people could be "fixed" through prayer or wishing or vitamins or therapy or whatever else has made countless people miserable over the years.  And it doesn't work, and at this point has been discredited.

And finally at long last our society came to accept gay people as they are.

And that Golden Era lasted about ...  2 weeks.

Because at that moment, along came trans activists and their allies who started promoting this new idea that since trans-women are women, lesbians who don't want "girl-dick" in their sex lives are transphobic.

So now we're right back where we started, where gay women (I never see this directed at gay men, or straight men, or straight women) are being guilted and shamed for their sexual orientation-- being told they're "transphobic" if they're not open to sex with women that have male anatomy.

The girl who wrote that letter is miserable because she's swallowed a bunch of propaganda fed to her by people who care about making life better for trans-women but apparently don't give a **** that they're making life worse for the girls they're manipulating. The trans people and their allies really don't care if cis-lesbians are getting hurt as long as transwomen are getting the sex and emotional validation they feel entitled to.

"Standing up for her" ... how?
By telling her to break up with her partner?

By denouncing the incredibly bad, homophobic idea that sexual orientation is just a "preference".   It's a horrible idea that needs to be confronted and denounced wherever it rears its ugly head.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Granny on December 09, 2019, 07:41:20 am
I see someone who has been hurt by terrible ideas she has been fed by well-meaning idiots.

This girl is miserable because try as she might, she can't "overcome her genital preferences". She thinks she's broken and awful because she can't feel sexual attraction to her partner. She thinks there's something wrong with *her*.  She thinks she needs conversion therapy.

As trans people and their allies promote this regressive, homophobic notion that your sexual orientation is just a preference or a fetish that you can "work through" or "get over", people like this girl are the collateral damage.

For a very long time, gay people were made to believe that there was something wrong with them. And gay people were told that they could be "fixed" or "healed" if they prayed hard enough, or wished hard enough, or went to "conversion therapy".  The idea that gay people could be "fixed" through prayer or wishing or vitamins or therapy or whatever else has made countless people miserable over the years.  And it doesn't work, and at this point has been discredited.

And finally at long last our society came to accept gay people as they are.

And that Golden Era lasted about ...  2 weeks.

Because at that moment, along came trans activists and their allies who started promoting this new idea that since trans-women are women, lesbians who don't want "girl-dick" in their sex lives are transphobic.

So now we're right back where we started, where gay women (I never see this directed at gay men, or straight men, or straight women) are being guilted and shamed for their sexual orientation-- being told they're "transphobic" if they're not open to sex with women that have male anatomy.

The girl who wrote that letter is miserable because she's swallowed a bunch of propaganda fed to her by people who care about making life better for trans-women but apparently don't give a **** that they're making life worse for the girls they're manipulating. The trans people and their allies really don't care if cis-lesbians are getting hurt as long as transwomen are getting the sex and emotional validation they feel entitled to.

By denouncing the incredibly bad, homophobic idea that sexual orientation is just a "preference".   It's a horrible idea that needs to be confronted and denounced wherever it rears its ugly head.

 -k

It would be nice if all people just stopped telling other people who they 'should' want to have sex with, but there will always be **** and free speech blah blah. Lol The only answer really is  free choice. If you're not with a person you want to be with sexually, you depart.
The propaganda will still go on, but nobody is forced (eg, by law) to conform.
Despite changes in law, there are still sectors of society who believe or preach that gay sex is a sin. They're wrong, but they won't likely change.
Maybe there will also always be Trans folk who think sex with lesbians is their 'right'. They're wrong, but they won't likely change either.

Therapy may help the girl resist the persuasion of others and do what is right for herself, the only solution really.
If there are issues of possible abuse, force or retaliation upon departure, that's a whole other, possibly legal, issue.

Just musing but ... I'm a bit curious why Trans women are focusing their efforts on cis-lesbians, when there are likely many women who like dick and would also appreciate a partner with a feminine perspective.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 09, 2019, 09:06:32 pm
Except I’m about as left as they come....   and I hate SJW nonsense and “wokeness”.   It’s not a left v. Right issue.

Then why aren't there any woke conservatives?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 09, 2019, 09:11:40 pm
Good post, except for one thing missing: team politics are not consistent, so they're the exact opposite of each other sometimes but don't line up with themselves either. The new right attitude opposes world trade and immigration because it hurts working people but still opposes unions.

True.  It's strange.

Capitalism really rules over everything.  It makes it necessary for high immigration and free trade.  You can want to bring the manufacturing jobs back or significantly reduce immigration or reduce CO2 but stock markets and GDP growth demand otherwise.  There's almost no choice unless you want to shoot yourself in the foot economically. Resistance is futile. It's been that way for many hundreds of years though.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 09, 2019, 10:09:43 pm
Then why aren't there any woke conservatives?

The term "woke" is just a claim to some sort of intellectual superiority.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 09, 2019, 10:27:33 pm
Then why aren't there any woke conservatives?

I didn't say there were.   Not not everyone on "the left" supports being awake. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 10, 2019, 02:13:26 am


Why do you think it has a lot of traction ? 

You are not engaging on that topic because it's worth considering, or it's being debated in the general population IMO but because it enrages you. 

That's fine too but look objectively at how that idea has travelled through the mechanics and flow of the "marketplace of ideas".  It's a new thing, or at least a re-discovering of an old and forgotten way that the system works:

1. Outrageous idea is developed by fringe dwellers
2. Intelligent people become away of said idea and are outraged
3. Intelligent people bring the idea into general discussion
4. Now the general population is aware of it

This all seems like a new flow that happens because of angertainment.
 

Experience is valid, but doesn't scale to the level of 'general problem'.  I believe the surveys I have read had good methodology but I will look again.

You don't have to quote a survey to get me to care about your personal and specific experience.  That is important and has a role to play.
 

I hear you and I care.

The way I think of such things is that you have to balance between:

"You can't legislate everything"
and
"We must ensure actions so that we can try to make sure [XYZ] never happens"

I am very confused by what happened here, because these are obviously Michael's words, but the forum thinks it's my post?!

I didn't notice this post earlier, and will respond to it later.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 10, 2019, 02:45:45 am
Just musing but ... I'm a bit curious why Trans women are focusing their efforts on cis-lesbians, when there are likely many women who like dick and would also appreciate a partner with a feminine perspective.

Validation.

If a straight woman wants to have sex with a trans-woman, it means she actually sees him as a man, which isn't how she wants to be seen.  The relationship would be based on, from the trans-woman's perspective, her being misgendered.  At best the straight woman is into the trans-woman because she doesn't understand the trans-woman's identity... or worse perhaps she has a fetishized view of them.

If a lesbian wants to have sex with a trans-woman, it would validate the trans-woman's identity as a woman. She would have a lover who sees her as she sees herself-- as a woman, not as a cross-dressing man.


It would be nice if all people just stopped telling other people who they 'should' want to have sex with, but there will always be **** and free speech blah blah. Lol The only answer really is  free choice. If you're not with a person you want to be with sexually, you depart.
The propaganda will still go on, but nobody is forced (eg, by law) to conform.
Despite changes in law, there are still sectors of society who believe or preach that gay sex is a sin. They're wrong, but they won't likely change.
Maybe there will also always be Trans folk who think sex with lesbians is their 'right'. They're wrong, but they won't likely change either.

Therapy may help the girl resist the persuasion of others and do what is right for herself, the only solution really.
If there are issues of possible abuse, force or retaliation upon departure, that's a whole other, possibly legal, issue.


What's going on at campus LGBT clubs and other gay spaces right now is that there is a lot of pressure to be trans-positive, because if people decide you're not trans-positive, you're not allowed.    So you get conversations that go like this:

Gaia: "Hi Becky, I was wondering if you'd like to go out with me Friday."
Becky: "Oh hi, Gaia... I'm sorry, but I'm gay... I'm not into guys."
Gaia: "Well I'm not a guy. I'm a woman. I'm still transitioning, but I'm a woman. So if you're into women, there should be no problem!"
Becky: "Uh, I'm sorry, I'm just not really attracted to you."
Gaia: "why? Is it because I'm trans?"
Becky: "No, it's just that--"
Gaia: "It's because I'm trans, isn't it! Oh my god, Becky is transphobic!  Becky's a TERF! Hey, everybody! Becky's a TERF!"
Everybody: "OMG Becky how could you" "Becky WTF" "GTFO, Becky, we don't want you here." "Get lost TERF scum!"
Becky: "but guys, I just--"
"Becky, you're not welcome here anymore. Just leave."

and of course after the other girls see what happens to Becky, you get this:

Gaia: "Hi Katie, would you like to go out with me Friday?"
Katie: "uhhhhh  ... yes?"

Because being perceived as being transphobic means being disowned, everybody is desperate to prove they're trans-inclusive.  Whether it's by going on a date with Gaia, or by being part of the lynch mob that strings up Becky, people want to prove they're trans-positive so that they don't end up like Becky.

Cybercoma will probably tell you that this is just propaganda, that this doesn't really happen. I have read enough stories from women who have been on the receiving end of this kind of witch-hunt to know that it does happen.


 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ?Impact on December 10, 2019, 10:39:15 am
If a straight woman wants to have sex with a trans-woman, it means she actually sees him as a man, which isn't how she wants to be seen.  The relationship would be based on, from the trans-woman's perspective, her being misgendered.  At best the straight woman is into the trans-woman because she doesn't understand the trans-woman's identity... or worse perhaps she has a fetishized view of them.

Perhaps she wants to have sex with him/her/whatever based on first impressions without knowing them. That does happen you know, regardless of gender, gender identity, sexual preference, etc. Peoples opinions change after they get to know someone, in all sorts of ways.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Granny on December 10, 2019, 07:43:10 pm

I also don't know what alt-right has to do with trans rights.  Alt-right has to do with white nationalism.
White Christian heterosexual male chauvinist nationalism.

Like those pushing #Wexit:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/my-hometown-is-the-epicentre-of-wexit-i-went-back-to-find-out-why/ar-BBY0aaU?ocid=st
"The federal government we have in Ottawa is trying to disarm us. They are ignoring Canadian voices on the number of immigrants they want to come into the country,” Bell shouts, leaning into the podium. “They are introducing motions and legislation to curb free speech. They are increasingly anti-person, promoting drag queens to kids as well as telling kids there is no such thing as being a boy or a girl. And they are promoting a forced in-your-face LGBT agenda.”

The crowd, many sporting hats with “Wexit” and “Alberta Strong” on them, went wild.


It's a package deal, wherever white supremacists are recruiting.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Granny on December 11, 2019, 02:48:18 am
Validation.

If a straight woman wants to have sex with a trans-woman, it means she actually sees him as a man, which isn't how she wants to be seen.  The relationship would be based on, from the trans-woman's perspective, her being misgendered.  At best the straight woman is into the trans-woman because she doesn't understand the trans-woman's identity... or worse perhaps she has a fetishized view of them.

If a lesbian wants to have sex with a trans-woman, it would validate the trans-woman's identity as a woman. She would have a lover who sees her as she sees herself-- as a woman, not as a cross-dressing man.

What's going on at campus LGBT clubs and other gay spaces right now is that there is a lot of pressure to be trans-positive, because if people decide you're not trans-positive, you're not allowed.    So you get conversations that go like this:

Gaia: "Hi Becky, I was wondering if you'd like to go out with me Friday."
Becky: "Oh hi, Gaia... I'm sorry, but I'm gay... I'm not into guys."
Gaia: "Well I'm not a guy. I'm a woman. I'm still transitioning, but I'm a woman. So if you're into women, there should be no problem!"
Becky: "Uh, I'm sorry, I'm just not really attracted to you."
Gaia: "why? Is it because I'm trans?"
Becky: "No, it's just that--"
Gaia: "It's because I'm trans, isn't it! Oh my god, Becky is transphobic!  Becky's a TERF! Hey, everybody! Becky's a TERF!"
Everybody: "OMG Becky how could you" "Becky WTF" "GTFO, Becky, we don't want you here." "Get lost TERF scum!"
Becky: "but guys, I just--"
"Becky, you're not welcome here anymore. Just leave."

and of course after the other girls see what happens to Becky, you get this:

Gaia: "Hi Katie, would you like to go out with me Friday?"
Katie: "uhhhhh  ... yes?"

Because being perceived as being transphobic means being disowned, everybody is desperate to prove they're trans-inclusive.  Whether it's by going on a date with Gaia, or by being part of the lynch mob that strings up Becky, people want to prove they're trans-positive so that they don't end up like Becky.

Cybercoma will probably tell you that this is just propaganda, that this doesn't really happen. I have read enough stories from women who have been on the receiving end of this kind of witch-hunt to know that it does happen.
-k

In your scenario, Becky calling a Trans woman a 'guy' while turning them down was disrespectful, unnecessary, insulting and likely to make things go sideways. Was it transphobic? Well ... ?
It's never wise to invite argument by trying to explain why you're not attracted to someone. Saying "no" already says that you're not.

I'd wonder how widespread a problem it is that a peer group that would join in and try to bully a person into dating someone they already turned down, 'shun' them the way you describe. Really?

Everybody has to stand up for their own right to choose their own partners for their own reasons,  like Katie and  'the girl' in your previous scenario will have to do. 




Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2019, 05:53:17 am

I'd wonder how widespread a problem it is that a peer group that would join in and try to bully a person into dating someone they already turned down, 'shun' them the way you describe. Really?


We talked about that.  kimmy says it is at least somewhat, so who am I to say?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on October 12, 2020, 03:01:51 pm
The State of LGBTQ2SIA+ Activism in 2020:

(https://i.imgur.com/wEFRap9.png)

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/10/02/sofie-hagen-pansexual-comedian-non-binary-cis-men-queer-dating-sex/

Sofie may seem like a typical cisgender heterosexual woman.  But they wants you to know that they is not! They is a non-binary pansexual person!  They dates and has sex with only cis hetero men and has no intention of changing that. But they identifies as pansexual because they has at some point or another imagined having sex with women, and they has even kissed women! And although they is female in name, appearance, clothing choices and presentation, they identifies as non-binary , because of reasons.

The biggest challenge for the LGBTQ2SIA+ community in 2020 is inventing more labels so that more heterosexual cisgender people can be part of the LGBTQ2SIA+ community!  We need more identities! We need more letters, numbers, and punctuation marks!

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 12, 2020, 03:06:12 pm
Meh...   she (??) can call herself whatever she wants....  some people dress up as animals and think they’re inhabited by some sort of “spirit” and mix this into their gender some how....  If this is possible, then I guess so is anything else. 

Personally, I’m not partaking in any of it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest78 on October 12, 2020, 03:24:01 pm
Personally I’m a big fan of most of the alphabet people.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on October 12, 2020, 03:55:04 pm
Thursday was "International Lesbian Day".  No actual events were going on, because of the covid and also because this isn't really a thing. But there was some talk on the Twitter box about it so I decided to check that out.

From my observation, the conversation broke down more or less like this:

 -38% people posting fan-art of their favorite female anime characters kissing.
 -23% trans, non-binary, he/him people talking about how great it is to be a lesbian, such as:
(https://i.imgur.com/GTSkrM1.png)

 -19% woke people talking about how trans, non-binary, he/him lesbians are valid and loved.
 -14% people wondering why #InternationalLesbianDay is full of pictures of stubble-faced dudes
 -6% stuff actually pertaining to lesbians, including greetings from organizations like Human Rights Campaign and Stonewall and Mermaids, and publications like Diva and PinkNews and Autostraddle

Human Rights Campaign, Stonewall, Mermaids, Diva, Pinknews, Autostraddle to lesbians on #InternationalLesbianDay: "Happy International Lesbian Day!"

Human Rights Campaign, Stonewall, Mermaids, Diva, Pinknews, Autostraddle to lesbians on the other 364 days of the year: "If you're excluding trans people from your dating circle, that's transphobic. You need to overcome your genital preferences. You owe it to your trans sisters to be inclusive."

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest78 on October 12, 2020, 04:25:10 pm
Thursday was "International Lesbian Day".  No actual events were going on, because of the covid and also because this isn't really a thing. But there was some talk on the Twitter box about it so I decided to check that out.

From my observation, the conversation broke down more or less like this:

 -38% people posting fan-art of their favorite female anime characters kissing.
 -23% trans, non-binary, he/him people talking about how great it is to be a lesbian, such as:
(https://i.imgur.com/GTSkrM1.png)

 -19% woke people talking about how trans, non-binary, he/him lesbians are valid and loved.
 -14% people wondering why #InternationalLesbianDay is full of pictures of stubble-faced dudes
 -6% stuff actually pertaining to lesbians, including greetings from organizations like Human Rights Campaign and Stonewall and Mermaids, and publications like Diva and PinkNews and Autostraddle

Human Rights Campaign, Stonewall, Mermaids, Diva, Pinknews, Autostraddle to lesbians on #InternationalLesbianDay: "Happy International Lesbian Day!"

Human Rights Campaign, Stonewall, Mermaids, Diva, Pinknews, Autostraddle to lesbians on the other 364 days of the year: "If you're excluding trans people from your dating circle, that's transphobic. You need to overcome your genital preferences. You owe it to your trans sisters to be inclusive."

 -k
As a society, we’re mainstreaming mental illness.  We’re promoting it and facilitating it.  It’s really sad.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on October 14, 2020, 02:08:31 am
Personally I’m a big fan of most of the alphabet people.

Sure you are. You'll be cheering along with Mitch McConnell when his stacked courts start overturning equality cases.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on October 14, 2020, 02:24:42 am
Progressives currently flipping out because Amy Coney Barrett used the phrase "sexual preference" instead of "sexual orientation".

But trans people and their supporters have been trying to rebrand "sexual orientation" as "genital preferences" for years, and progressives have not said one word about it.

"Sexual orientation" is an innate characteristic that must be respected... unless we're talking about bullying lesbians into sucking "girl-dick", in which case it's a "genital preference".

Progressives are disgusting hypocrites.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 14, 2020, 07:58:14 am
  Progressives are disgusting hypocrites.
 

Not all progressives  ;)
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on October 14, 2020, 08:00:38 am
Somebody's been reading too much MLW.  :D
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on October 14, 2020, 09:30:00 pm
Somebody's been reading too much MLW.  :D

meh.  I haven't been over there for months and I have no idea what those boneheads are saying.  But if they are talking about this, it must mean they've been reading lesbian bloggers or gender-critical feminists, and I can't be mad about that. Maybe they'll learn something.

Not all progressives  ;)

#NotAllProgressives!   :P

Yes, yes, I know that not all progressives agree with everything the trans activists have to say.  But I never hear progressives push back against any of the stuff the trans activists are demanding, no matter how ridiculous.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 15, 2020, 12:12:30 am
#AllProgressivesMatter
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 15, 2020, 08:53:55 am

Yes, yes, I know that not all progressives agree with everything the trans activists have to say.  But I never hear progressives push back against any of the stuff the trans activists are demanding, no matter how ridiculous.

 -k

I agree that people are still reluctant to break ranks with their teams...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 15, 2020, 10:10:11 pm
Thursday was "International Lesbian Day".  No actual events were going on, because of the covid and also because this isn't really a thing. But there was some talk on the Twitter box about it so I decided to check that out.

From my observation, the conversation broke down more or less like this:

 -38% people posting fan-art of their favorite female anime characters kissing.
 -23% trans, non-binary, he/him people talking about how great it is to be a lesbian, such as:
 -19% woke people talking about how trans, non-binary, he/him lesbians are valid and loved.
 -14% people wondering why #InternationalLesbianDay is full of pictures of stubble-faced dudes
 -6% stuff actually pertaining to lesbians, including greetings from organizations like Human Rights Campaign and Stonewall and Mermaids, and publications like Diva and PinkNews and Autostraddle

Human Rights Campaign, Stonewall, Mermaids, Diva, Pinknews, Autostraddle to lesbians on #InternationalLesbianDay: "Happy International Lesbian Day!"

Human Rights Campaign, Stonewall, Mermaids, Diva, Pinknews, Autostraddle to lesbians on the other 364 days of the year: "If you're excluding trans people from your dating circle, that's transphobic. You need to overcome your genital preferences. You owe it to your trans sisters to be inclusive."

 -k

Ms. Kimmy.  My take is that gays/lesbians had their fight for many decades to be accepted, they've had their time in the celebration and spotlight.  Right now is the time for trans people.  Once it's normalized and we figure out all these complex issues, just like gay marriage and gay couples adoption etc., then everyone will be in the same spotlight again.  It's not that trans people matter more, it's that trans people matter too.  Just give them their 15 minutes or whatever to shine.  You can't have everyone in the band play a different guitar solo at the same time.  Sounds like sh*t lol.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 15, 2020, 10:12:38 pm
Also, can we free the nipple already?  Why is it socially acceptable for men to walk around with shirts off but not women?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on October 16, 2020, 09:10:28 am
Also, can we free the nipple already?  Why is it socially acceptable for men to walk around with shirts off but not women?

I see **** women out and about sometimes.  No big deal...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 01, 2020, 02:28:43 pm
So Ellen Page is now Elliot Page. I can't keep up.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: eyeball on December 01, 2020, 02:41:44 pm
I see **** women out and about sometimes.  No big deal...
Really! Where? That sounds like a pretty good deal.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Montgomery on December 01, 2020, 02:54:46 pm
Also, can we free the nipple already?  Why is it socially acceptable for men to walk around with shirts off but not women?

Religious superstitious beliefs mostly.  And the need for clothes in colder climates.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 01, 2020, 05:48:23 pm
So Ellen Page is now Elliot Page. I can't keep up.

The only odd thing about this is that the article I read this news in refused to even mention the name "Ellen" so I had no idea who had changed their name, other than they are now known as "Elliot".
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 01, 2020, 05:51:30 pm
"LGBTQQIP2SAA stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, questioning, queer, intersex, pansexual, two-spirit (2S), androgynous and asexual."
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 01, 2020, 06:18:55 pm
The only odd thing about this is that the article I read this news in refused to even mention the name "Ellen" so I had no idea who had changed their name, other than they are now known as "Elliot".

I wasn’t sure so I had to Google Ellen Page to make sure. Maybe you get sued if you mention someone’s former pronoun these days. It seems to be the world we live in.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 01, 2020, 07:04:39 pm
So Ellen Page is now Elliot Page. I can't keep up.

You kept up with Prince, it's not hard...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 01, 2020, 07:05:16 pm
Really! Where? That sounds like a pretty good deal.

In Toronto.  There's a **** beach too.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 01, 2020, 07:12:50 pm
   Maybe you get sued if you mention someone’s former pronoun these days. It seems to be the world we live in.

Oh, this is "war on Christmas" level stupid.

If I call you a c*** can you sue me ?  I suppose so.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 01, 2020, 07:14:00 pm
The only odd thing about this is that the article I read this news in refused to even mention the name "Ellen" so I had no idea who had changed their name, other than they are now known as "Elliot".

It's viewed as over-the-line to mention someone's former name, so they can't even say "The artist formerly known as..."
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 01, 2020, 07:16:33 pm
Oh, this is "war on Christmas" level stupid.

If I call you a c*** can you sue me ?  I suppose so.

Try me. :D
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 01, 2020, 07:21:32 pm
Try me. :D

YOU ARE A **** ******* *****
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 01, 2020, 07:48:35 pm
In Toronto.  There's a **** beach too.

I heard the **** beach is all gay guys.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 01, 2020, 07:49:15 pm
Oh, this is "war on Christmas" level stupid.

If I call you a c*** can you sue me ?  I suppose so.

Happy Holidays.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 01, 2020, 07:54:25 pm
It's viewed as over-the-line to mention someone's former name, so they can't even say "The artist formerly known as..."

It's offensive to say Ellen Page changed their name to Elliot Page?  So saying what happened is offensive?  It's offensive to even say Elliot used to identify as female in gender and went by the name Ellen?  Do they have to burn all the old DVD's that say Ellen Page on it?  Do they have to erase the footage and insert Elliot Page?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 01, 2020, 08:00:53 pm
It's offensive to say Ellen Page changed their name to Elliot Page?  So saying what happened is offensive?  It's offensive to even say Elliot used to identify as female in gender and went by the name Ellen?  Do they have to burn all the old DVD's that say Ellen Page on it?  Do they have to erase the footage and insert Elliot Page?

CTV news tonight referred to Elliot as formerly Ellen tonight.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 01, 2020, 08:08:08 pm
It's offensive to say Ellen Page changed their name to Elliot Page?  So saying what happened is offensive?  It's offensive to even say Elliot used to identify as female in gender and went by the name Ellen?  Do they have to burn all the old DVD's that say Ellen Page on it?  Do they have to erase the footage and insert Elliot Page?

The Telegraph was the only paper I saw that went with comprehension first. 

"Inception star Ellen Page comes out as transgender and changes name to Elliot"

I don't see what was so hard about that.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 01, 2020, 08:28:09 pm
I heard the **** beach is all gay guys.

Heard LOL
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 01, 2020, 08:33:47 pm
1. It's offensive to say Ellen Page changed their name to Elliot Page? 
2. So saying what happened is offensive? 
3. It's offensive to even say Elliot used to identify as female in gender and went by the name Ellen?  Do they have to burn all the old DVD's that say Ellen Page on it?  Do they have to erase the footage and insert Elliot Page?
1. Nothing is universally offensive.  Are you asking if some are offended then the answer is yes.
2. Offensive to some people yes.
3. I guess the answer is yes it's offensive and no they probably aren't going to do that.

I'm not really here to explain to you that some people in the world find some things offensive or to provide cultural examples of things different people find offensive or what have you.

Some are offended by pork, or having a hamburger with a milkshake, or wearing a white poppy or wearing a hat in the legion or...

Go out into the world and take in the wonder.  It's so much more interesting than going on the internet and trying to catch me (a friend) in a contradiction.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 01, 2020, 08:39:05 pm
There are people who are easily offended, people who find it hilarious to watch people be offended, and people who get mad about people getting offended. Not such a world of wonder after all.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 01, 2020, 08:51:12 pm
Heard LOL

Wanna go?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 01, 2020, 09:05:25 pm
Wanna go?

No.  I hate my body.

BTW CBC Radio just covered the story and said "Previously known as Ellen Page..."
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 01, 2020, 09:22:37 pm
There are people who are easily offended, people who find it hilarious to watch people be offended, and people who get mad about people getting offended. Not such a world of wonder after all.

It's interesting to me that the current generation of young people are fighting for the right not to have anything offend people, while the previous generation or 2 (or 3) were fighting for the right to offend people.  And the generations prior never wanted to be offensive.  That's pretty weird.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: eyeball on December 01, 2020, 09:31:41 pm
In Toronto.  There's a **** beach too.
There's a beach or two like that here too but I can't get close enough with the boat but speaking of LGB...CDE I'll never forget the boatload of guys who insisted on looking for bears.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on December 01, 2020, 11:44:36 pm
I saw it on twitter first and the headline was "Umbrella Academy star Elliot Page announces he is transgender."

I guess I wasn't hip to the faux pas of naming the last name and it read like 'Elliot Page' (actor I need to google) is announcing himself as MTF transgender.

I guess I should've known better with the pronoun 'he'.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 02, 2020, 12:41:25 am
If Janine Garofalo had a younger sister i would imagine it would be something like the person formally known as Ellen Page.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 04, 2020, 12:11:36 am
Page is now a heterosexual man!  And Page's wife Emma Portner is now a heterosexual woman!  Two homosexuals cured, just like that! Wow, conversion therapy really works!

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 24, 2021, 09:12:34 pm
Just going to post this...  In case people think cancel culture is a thing

Quote
It was only a matter of time before the absurd remarks of Conservative MP Tamara Jansen went viral on social media, and it was entirely justified.

Addressing a Liberal bill aimed at criminalizing conversion therapy, the MP for the B.C. riding of Cloverdale—Langley City said, “I’m going to invoke the words of the Apostle Matthew: ‘Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees. You hypocrites! You’re like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside, but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.’ ”

After she was roundly criticized for implying that people who oppose conversion therapy — and members of the LGBTQ2 community, in particular — were perhaps “unclean,” she said she was in fact referring to hypocrites, rather than homosexuals. But with more than 780,000 words in the Bible, it’s a little strange she chose these so deliberately.

Jansen went on to discuss someone named Charlotte, whose parents, she explained, had found their daughter a counsellor because she no longer wanted “to continue with her lesbian activity” and “struggled with self-worth and depression.” It didn’t seem to occur to the MP that young gay people do indeed sometimes struggle with self-worth and depression, not because of their sexuality, but because of people who condemn that sexuality, and often quote scripture to make them feel unloved and unnatural.

https://ipolitics.ca/2021/04/23/the-last-thing-lgbtq2-canadians-need-is-mps-misquoting-scripture-at-them/
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 07, 2021, 12:11:01 pm
Catholic School Board realizes they're Christian... embraces diversity, even though they may be considered "sinners"

https://www.680news.com/2021/05/07/toronto-catholic-district-school-board-pride-flag-june-halton-catholic/
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 07, 2021, 04:42:13 pm
Catholic School Board realizes they're Christian... embraces diversity, even though they may be considered "sinners"

https://www.680news.com/2021/05/07/toronto-catholic-district-school-board-pride-flag-june-halton-catholic/


The more they ignore of the bible, the better.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 07, 2021, 04:46:51 pm

The more they ignore of the bible, the better.

I wonder if the Vatican would approve of this flag.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 07, 2021, 04:48:08 pm
Catholic School Board realizes they're Christian... embraces diversity, even though they may be considered "sinners"

https://www.680news.com/2021/05/07/toronto-catholic-district-school-board-pride-flag-june-halton-catholic/

Well Catholic doctrine says there's nothing wrong with being gay, just the sex acts and gay marriage.  I don't see why they can't fly the flag.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 07, 2021, 06:57:14 pm
Well Catholic doctrine says there's nothing wrong with being gay, just the sex acts and gay marriage. 


Telling someone who they can and can’t love and be with is just as wrong.

Quote
I don't see why they can't fly the flag.

They can...  but they’d be ignoring the bible passages prohibiting gay male sex.  Funnily enough, there aren’t the same prohibitions in the bible about lesbians. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on May 07, 2021, 07:04:58 pm


They can...  but they’d be ignoring the bible passages prohibiting gay male sex.  Funnily enough, there aren’t the same prohibitions in the bible about lesbians.

It was written by men.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 07, 2021, 08:10:32 pm
It was written by men.

Depends who you ask...   most Christians think it’s special, inherent even.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 07, 2021, 10:06:56 pm
Telling someone who they can and can’t love and be with is just as wrong.

They can...  but they’d be ignoring the bible passages prohibiting gay male sex.  Funnily enough, there aren’t the same prohibitions in the bible about lesbians.

Does the Pride flag condone gay sex and gay marriage?  Maybe it does I dunno.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 07, 2021, 11:13:55 pm
Does the Pride flag condone gay sex and gay marriage?  Maybe it does I dunno.

I think they’re intertwined.

But Christians claiming they only “hate the sin” is a convenient apologetic to be a bigot.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 08, 2021, 04:36:35 am
I think they’re intertwined.

But Christians claiming they only “hate the sin” is a convenient apologetic to be a bigot.

It feels like you want to dismiss an important milestone in tolerance and inclusion.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 08, 2021, 10:49:01 am
It feels like you want to dismiss an important milestone in tolerance and inclusion.

Applaud people for doing the right thing, but still be bigoted by saying gay folks will go to hell  if they express their love for each other in a physical way?   

Yes, marvellous.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 08, 2021, 06:47:13 pm
Applaud people for doing the right thing, but still be bigoted by saying gay folks will go to hell  if they express their love for each other in a physical way?   

Yes, marvellous.

If you believe in gay love, gay marriage and other gay rights I don't know how you could call yourself a Catholic, support the church, give them money etc.

The Catholic church is a crappy institution.  It's not all bad, but it's bad enough.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on June 16, 2021, 12:52:55 am
Quote
I think this is a very common experience for young people, growing up same sex attracted. Shame seeps into your pores and becomes part of you.

Pride says no to that. Pride says, I am who I am. Pride says, “get this shame off my skin, get it out of me, I love who I love..."

"I am not ashamed."

Pride is defiance, it is boundaried, it is the “**** you” to every homophobe who ever tried to bully and harass me

I nearly burst with pride, lying on the banks of the river with my friend in the sunshine of a late spring afternoon, with the blossom falling.

I turned my face to hers, in fear and trembling, to find she had already turned to me, and I kissed her, and it was as pure as the sound of the water and the blossom falling on our skin. Pride is my refusal to be ashamed for that. Pride is how I reclaim myself from shame.

I am proud too, to lie in the boundaried shelter of my wife’s arms. I am proud to go out in public with her, and feel those judgemental, shaming eyes on me. **** them. I am Teflon, it slides right off when I’m with her. It just makes me love her harder, shine more brightly.

There are people who say things like “it is ridiculous to be proud of your sexuality.” Generally, those people have not had to overcome the kind of shame I faced, many other gay people faced. Generally, those people are straight.

I need pride, I need to place it consciously in my mind, in my way of being in the world, as an antidote to the shame that got ingrained in me growing up about who I am and who I love. I need pride as a reminder that I am not broken, I am not wrong, I should not feel ashamed.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1404403732893294593.html

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: waldo on June 23, 2021, 12:21:27 am
(https://i.imgur.com/weWbrIw.jpg)
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on August 19, 2022, 11:39:14 am
Loony right wing activists want separate classes for LGBTQ kids (https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/08/moms-liberty-activist-wants-lgbtq-students-separated-special-classes)

Quote
“The kids that do have their, you know, they’re confused, or they are gay or whatnot,” said Moms for Liberty Miami-Dade member Crystal Alonso, “that the way they’re trying to go about it is to make it an open conversation and an open thing in classrooms.”

“But like for example children with autism, Down Syndrome, they have to have special IP meetings with a counselor, they have to be put into separate classrooms. I understand, because it’s a different type of education for children with those disabilities, but I think that for children that identify differently, there should also be like a specialized… something for them, so that they feel that they’re important enough that they’re being counseled.”

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on August 31, 2022, 11:51:48 pm
Gender Equality Minister Marci Ien has announced a 5 year, $100 million "action plan" for 2SLGBTQI+ community groups!

I can hardly wait to find out who receives the money.

If $133,000 can buy you one Marouf, $100 million over 5 years can buy you 750 Maroufs, or 150 Maroufs per year. I'm sure we'll see some absolutely fascinating uses of this money.

I'm expecting a whole lot of "Overcoming The Cotton Ceiling" workshops, and I'm also expecting "Hailey Heartless" driving around Vancouver in a brand new Porsche.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 01, 2022, 08:41:36 am
Gender Equality Minister Marci Ien has announced a 5 year, $100 million "action plan" for 2SLGBTQI+ community groups!

I can hardly wait to find out who receives the money.

If $133,000 can buy you one Marouf, $100 million over 5 years can buy you 750 Maroufs, or 150 Maroufs per year. I'm sure we'll see some absolutely fascinating uses of this money.

I'm expecting a whole lot of "Overcoming The Cotton Ceiling" workshops, and I'm also expecting "Hailey Heartless" driving around Vancouver in a brand new Porsche.

 -k

$20M a year isn't much but ... yeah they have to stand on their record.  I would like that money to go to LGBT street youth, support programs for folks estranged from their families and specific things but with these things it seems to be about the announcement with no way for us to look back and trace what happened.

This isn't specific to the feds or the Liberals but it would be nice to see them use their power to change that.

Let's see...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-canada-invests-100-million-into-historic-action-plan-for-lgbtq2s/

$5M for "public awares" $7M for data gathering and $75M for community programs.  Ok so most is accounted for but the announcement should including a link for the public to trace this stuff IMO.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on September 05, 2022, 08:18:18 pm
A tip for teachers now that schools starting up again.  Crazy concept huh?

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 05, 2022, 09:38:25 pm
I have never heard of a teacher telling the class who they're sleeping with.

This might be a strawman argument...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on September 05, 2022, 11:08:18 pm
I have never heard of a teacher telling the class who they're sleeping with.

This might be a strawman argument...

You never had a teacher mention a husband or wife?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on September 05, 2022, 11:19:28 pm
A tip for teachers now that schools starting up again.  Crazy concept huh?

(Attachment Link)

Fun fact that post is from Gettr the garbage Twitter knock off started by bipedal hog and ex Trump spox Jason Miller who once tried to give his mistress abortion pills without her knowledge just another example of the grifter scum that make up Shiddy’s media diet.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 06, 2022, 05:18:41 am
You never had a teacher mention a husband or wife?

Yes, but not mention whether they were **** at the time.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on September 06, 2022, 09:29:50 am
Censored words make a fun, creative game of trying to fill in the blanks.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on September 06, 2022, 10:31:44 am
Fun fact that post is from Gettr the garbage Twitter knock off started by bipedal hog and ex Trump spox Jason Miller who once tried to give his mistress abortion pills without her knowledge just another example of the grifter scum that make up Shiddy’s media diet.
The comment stands on it's own.  Whether you approve or not of the person that started the platform that somebody posted it on.  What a f**king ridiculous argument. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 06, 2022, 10:59:31 am
Censored words make a fun, creative game of trying to fill in the blanks.

Any one works... even "titting"
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on September 06, 2022, 11:48:41 am
The comment stands on it's own.  Whether you approve or not of the person that started the platform that somebody posted it on.  What a f**king ridiculous argument.

The comment is retarded too if that helps.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on September 06, 2022, 11:49:48 am
Yes, but not mention whether they were **** at the time.

If you were old enough to know about ****ing, you were probably old enough to determine if your married teachers were having sex.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on September 07, 2022, 06:41:07 pm
Green Party interim leader feels 'hurt and isolated' after being accidentally 'misgendered'

https://thepostmillennial.com/green-party-interim-leader-feels-hurt-and-isolated-after-being-accidentally-misgendered/?fbclid=IwAR360td_CPP69UMc_wr70msMOTkAYLdyfupQnXOT_mzSwXShXS8Wn_NNJgI

These people have disqualified themselves from any real government leadership positions if they get that upset and being accidentally misgendered.  What’s going to happen to them on the world stage if an adversary purposely misgenders them?  Are they going to recoil to a safe space?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on September 07, 2022, 06:43:34 pm
You don't even believe they exist, so why do you care so much?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on September 07, 2022, 07:45:13 pm
More of the insanity.  They look exactly like you’d expect them to look right?  Although I expected purple hair.  I’m disappointed.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on September 07, 2022, 08:45:11 pm
I can see why this is very important to you.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on September 07, 2022, 08:54:43 pm
More of the insanity.  They look exactly like you’d expect them to look right?  Although I expected purple hair.  I’m disappointed.

(Attachment Link)

Cute couple. Any chance you can explain why this is news or why you care? Or are you just jealous of people in loving relationships?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 07, 2022, 10:19:20 pm
Doctors don't announce a baby's gender in the delivery room, they announce the baby's sex.  So these parents are dumb and don't even know what gender is.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on September 07, 2022, 11:18:12 pm
Doctors don't announce a baby's gender in the delivery room, they announce the baby's sex.  So these parents are dumb and don't even know what gender is.

It’s hard to say if any of that is even true since our resident retard can’t post links.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on September 08, 2022, 10:10:23 am
Cis people: Why are queers so obsessed with gender stuff?

Also cis people:

Quote
The 2017 Sawmill Fire in Arizona was caused by a gender-reveal party that combined blue powder and an explosive. Other dangerous stunts have involved fireworks and alligators.

In 2018, "gender reveal burnouts", in which cars emit billowing clouds of pink or blue smoke, became a popular fad in Australia. The Queensland Police Service warns that this practice is dangerous, and that there have been a number of attempted "burnouts" that resulted in flaming vehicles and arrests.

In September 2019, there was a plane crash in Turkey, Texas when a low-flying crop duster was attempting to drop 350 gallons of colored water for a reveal. The pilot was not injured and the passenger received minor injuries.

In October 2019, an Iowa woman was killed by flying shrapnel from the explosion of a homemade device meant to reveal her grandchild's gender. The device, made from a metal cylinder packed with gunpowder and colored baby powder, was intended to project a display vertically, but the tape covering its top caused it to instead explode in a manner similar to a pipe bomb.

In September 2020, a gender-reveal pyrotechnic device started the El Dorado Fire near Yucaipa, California, destroying homes, prompting evacuations, burning thousands of acres, and causing the death of one firefighter.

On February 21, 2021, the accidental explosion of an in-development gender reveal device in Liberty, New York killed the father-to-be and injured his younger brother.

On March 29, 2021, two people were killed when a plane crashed in the Caribbean Sea off the coast of Mexico while carrying a trailing sign that read "It's a girl!"

On April 20, 2021, 80 pounds of tannerite were detonated during a gender reveal party near Kingston, New Hampshire, causing mild to moderate damage to buildings surrounding the radius of the explosion.

On May 31, 2021, a gender reveal party near Fort McMurray, Alberta burned half a hectare of forest after shooting an exploding target. The organizers were fined $600 under the province's Forest and Prairie Protection Act.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on September 08, 2022, 10:37:52 pm
If you were old enough to know about ****ing, you were probably old enough to determine if your married teachers were having sex.
.I still don't know if they were.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 20, 2023, 09:49:22 am
They just couldn't go there...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am3N8BQX_W4
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on November 22, 2023, 12:14:28 am
That's adorable...  I wonder if she always knew, or if she just knew that she wasn't interested in boys at that particular moment.

 It took me a long time to realize that I wasn't heterosexual.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on November 22, 2023, 12:15:48 am
I'm no longer able to find generic wheat squares anywhere.  Generic wheat squares seem to have simply vanished from grocery stores.  I view this as an unacceptable attack on the lesbian community.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on November 22, 2023, 12:45:45 am
It took me a long time to realize that I wasn't heterosexual.

Like, I genuinely thought I was heterosexual and had a hard time understanding why I never felt the same sort of electricity with a man that I felt with a woman. And also, I felt like making out with other girls was kind of normal and something that other girls did and the idea that I enjoyed it didn't seem out of ordinary to me.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on November 22, 2023, 05:27:42 am
Seeing Tina Louise, as Ginger, on Gilligan's Island...
Age six...

Yeah...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 01, 2023, 09:49:49 am
Crazy.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 01, 2023, 10:09:03 am
Crazy.

(Attachment Link)

Yeah it’s crazy how gullible you are to keep falling for these obvious setups but that’s confirmation bias for you.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 01, 2023, 10:43:10 am
Crazy.

(Attachment Link)

LOL...reminds me of that "National R@pe Day: that four college frat boys made social media posts about a few years back as a joke, and Women's groups made a huge deal about it, and urged all woman not to go out in public on that date (April 24), even though it was a joke in bad taste.  People will believe anything these days.

Some groups as still warning women and children about that date...lol.

https://www.safeguardingchildren.co.uk/

Fact checking "National R@pe Day"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/04/19/fact-check-tiktok-warnings-april-24-threats-unsubstantiated/7289065002/
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 07, 2023, 05:50:20 pm
😂😂😂

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 11, 2023, 01:53:36 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAnTvOpWgAAMX1_?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 11, 2023, 06:54:45 am
As less significant issues like war, the rise of authoritarianism, and the destruction of our livable environment distract us, it's important to pause and consider the truly important issues of our day.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 07:16:29 am
Are people finally starting to come around to my point of view about our capacity for public discussion? I hope so.

How many more years are we going to talk about trans women in sports as a national issue?

I'm not a fan of Poilievre, but I am a huge fan of the fact that he put out a 15 minute documentary, ostensibly fact-based, about our national housing issue.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 07:17:08 am
And if people haven't noticed, the word woke is not being used as often by DeSantis and the like. Like. It's almost like public is starting to not care about things that are less important.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 09:44:36 am
Are people finally starting to come around to my point of view about our capacity for public discussion? I hope so.

Are people finally starting to come around to your point of view that public discussion should be limited to issues you say are important? I hope not.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 11, 2023, 10:05:57 am
There's been a lot of discussion over trans rights issues the last several years.  On social media, YouTube, TV etc.  This is how we hash things out as a society.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 11:16:20 am
Are people finally starting to come around to your point of view that public discussion should be limited to issues you say are important? I hope not.

Why do you think Trans women in sports needs a national conversation above housing ?

Do you think more people are impacted by a Trans woman playing high school girls' volleyball somewhere or the housing shortage ?

I'm asking because you seem to be ridiculing my take on these issues.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 11:19:33 am
Why do you think Trans women in sports needs a national conversation above housing ?

Do you think more people are impacted by a Trans woman playing high school girls' volleyball somewhere or the housing shortage ?

I'm asking because you seem to be ridiculing my take on these issues.

Why did you make up an argument for me?

I'm asking you because you seemed to make up an argument for me.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 11, 2023, 11:30:48 am
Why do you think Trans women in sports needs a national conversation above housing ?

Do you think more people are impacted by a Trans woman playing high school girls' volleyball somewhere or the housing shortage ?

I'm asking because you seem to be ridiculing my take on these issues.

Transgenders competing in Women's sports is wrong.  Having said that, it should not be as big as an issue as it has been made out to be.  It should be common sense not to have biological men compete in Women's sports, and the backlash to this has been to attack the LBGT community.  It could have been prevented if the sports authority had prevented biological men from competing in Women's sports to begin with.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 11:40:58 am
Why did you make up an argument for me?

I'm asking you because you seemed to make up an argument for me.

Because you started it ?

I'm answering because you implied that I think that I get to decide what's important.

I don't.  I don't think that Trans women in Sports warrants the attention it gets.  Make your case without putting me in the argument why don't you ?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 11:41:49 am
...it should not be as big as an issue as it has been made out to be.

All I care about...

 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 11:49:10 am
Because you started it ?

I'm answering because you implied that I think that I get to decide what's important.

I don't.  I don't think that Trans women in Sports warrants the attention it gets.  Make your case without putting me in the argument why don't you ?

You're making up an argument for me because I posted in response to your post?

You said I think Trans women in sports needs a national conversation above housing.  That's obviously not true.  I never said anything of the sort, and I don't understand why you would claim I did.

I posted because I'm baffled by your refusal to accept that there are subjects worthy of discussion that you might not feel any need to be involved in. 

Look at any news page.  BBC, CBC, CNN, The Telegraph, The Guardian, etc.  I would bet you open less than 1% of the links.  I know I do.  I don't worry over the folk who are opening the other 99%.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 01:31:26 pm
1. You're making up an argument for me because I posted in response to your post?

2.That's obviously not true.   

3. I don't understand why you would claim I did.

4. ...there are subjects worthy of discussion that you might not feel any need to be involved in. 
 

1. Making up an argument for me, yes.
2. Of course not.
3. Because tit-for-tat.
4. There are subjects that get too much attention.  You make it sound like I am appointing myself arbiter, which I am not.  That argument is not one I made, ergo you made it up.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 01:49:01 pm
1. Making up an argument for me, yes.
2. Of course not.
3. Because tit-for-tat.
4. There are subjects that get too much attention.  You make it sound like I am appointing myself arbiter, which I am not.  That argument is not one I made, ergo you made it up.

I see now.  You regarded my post when I said:

Are people finally starting to come around to your point of view that public discussion should be limited to issues you say are important? I hope not.

As me making up a position for you, so you made one up for me.  Fair enough.

That said, it is obviously not my position that Trans women in sports needs a national conversation above housing, but it does seem to be your position that we should not be discussing certain things because they are not as important as other things.  And by certain things, I mean the issue of men who say they are women now, competing with biological women who have been women their whole lives, in women's sports.

It seems like you just wish people would be quiet about it.  That's what baffles me.  News media is full of stuff I don't care about, but I don't worry about others who do.  I can't understand why you want to close down debate on this issue.  You could just ignore it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 11, 2023, 02:26:38 pm
Perhaps because it was purposely designed as a wedge issue to keep the masses nattering about that instead of the fact they can't afford to have a place to live anymore.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 11, 2023, 02:33:50 pm
We need to talk about trans people competing in sports categories and solve that issue.

We need to talk about a national housing crisis and solve that issue.

The trans issue is one that affects or will affect the entire western world and beyond.  The housing issue in Canada only affects Canada, thus will be discussed less in media/ social media.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 02:35:26 pm
Perhaps because it was purposely designed as a wedge issue to keep the masses nattering about that instead of the fact they can't afford to have a place to live anymore.

Do you really think that such is the case?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 11, 2023, 02:44:38 pm
Perhaps because it was purposely designed as a wedge issue to keep the masses nattering about that instead of the fact they can't afford to have a place to live anymore.

Do you think people should only be able to consider one thing at a time? If so, who gets to decide what that is?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 11, 2023, 02:46:28 pm
We need to talk about trans people competing in sports categories and solve that issue.

We need to talk about a national housing crisis and solve that issue.

The trans issue is one that affects or will affect the entire western world and beyond. 
The housing issue in Canada only affects Canada, thus will be discussed less in media/ social media.

Trans people competing in sports impacts two categories of people: trans people competing or desiring to compete in sports and the people they are potentially competing against. That's it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 11, 2023, 02:54:57 pm
Do you think people should only be able to consider one thing at a time? If so, who gets to decide what that is?
Do you think people should resist falling for the stupid bait?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 11, 2023, 03:00:48 pm
Trans people competing in sports impacts two categories of people: trans people competing or desiring to compete in sports and the people they are potentially competing against. That's it.

The fact that they allow biological men to compete in Women;s sports, and impede in Women's safe spaces (change rooms, **** crisis centres, etc.), is rooted in misogyny.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 03:01:33 pm
Trans people competing in sports impacts two categories of people: trans people competing or desiring to compete in sports and the people they are potentially competing against. That's it.

So what?  Are you saying that a person should only discuss issues that directly affect them?

I'm mortgage free, so the housing issue is not something I should care about?

I'm neither Jewish nor Palestinian, so...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 03:02:14 pm

1. That said, it is obviously not my position that Trans women in sports needs a national conversation above housing,
2. ...it does seem to be your position that we should not be discussing certain things because they are not as important as other things.
3. And by certain things, I mean the issue of men who say they are women now, competing with biological women who have been women their whole lives, in women's sports.
4. It seems like you just wish people would be quiet about it.  That's what baffles me.  News media is full of stuff I don't care about, but I don't worry about others who do.  I can't understand why you want to close down debate on this issue.  You could just ignore it.

1. Yes, obviously.  I never thought you felt that way.
2. This is a continuous misstatement of my position.  I never talk about "not" discussing, I mean can we talk about it "less".  Why is every decision where a trans woman is allowed to compete a national issue ?  There are occasions of trans women being banned from types of competition too and I have seen less covererage of that but maybe not in the 'trans press' who knows... just the mainstream press.
3. I don't know why you felt you had to clarify that.
4. Don't you ever want to comment on what we talk about in media ?  In the public sphere ?  Maybe that's the disconnect between me and the whole world, seemingly, on this.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 03:05:00 pm
And again we definitely CAN talk about many things but...

We only have so much bandwidth.

We don't have to decide if it's a conspiracy to talk about stupid things - we just have to know that the system elevates stupid things in importance.... BECAUSE WE FIGHT ABOUT THEM.

Our media diet... it's entertainment pure and simple, especially news.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 03:09:09 pm
1. Yes, obviously.  I never thought you felt that way.
2. This is a continuous misstatement of my position.  I never talk about "not" discussing, I mean can we talk about it "less".  Why is every decision where a trans woman is allowed to compete a national issue ?  There are occasions of trans women being banned from types of competition too and I have seen less covererage of that but maybe not in the 'trans press' who knows... just the mainstream press.
3. I don't know why you felt you had to clarify that.
4. Don't you ever want to comment on what we talk about in media ?  In the public sphere ?  Maybe that's the disconnect between me and the whole world, seemingly, on this.

1)  You said you did. 

2)  Just this issue though.

3) see 2)

4) Sure.  Like I said, 99% of what I see in the media doesn't interest me.  That it interests someone is why it is in the media, I guess.  It's not my place to say what other people should be interested in reading.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 03:11:18 pm
Do you think people should resist falling for the stupid bait?

Can you give an example of when this issue was stupid bait, and not something that some people were very concerned over?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 03:16:57 pm
1)  You said you did. 

2)  Just this issue though.

3) see 2)

4) Sure.  Like I said, 99% of what I see in the media doesn't interest me.  That it interests someone is why it is in the media, I guess.  It's not my place to say what other people should be interested in reading.

1) I didn't.
2) Oh not just this issue no.  The coverage of Trump, the coverage of election horseraces YEARS before they occur.  I mean the list goes on and on...
3) You know ... I do have probably 4 or 5 trans friends and at least the same number of trans/nonbinary acquaintences right ?   For that matter, I am called out on here more than occasionally for defending Trans people, at least I perceive it as such.
4) But are you interested in 'media' and 'the public sphere' as a topic ?  You should.  This is, essentially, the central nervous system of any democracy.  They are taking news away piece by piece and replacing it with social issues that people fight over.  You're not concerned about that ?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 11, 2023, 03:20:47 pm
Do you think people should resist falling for the stupid bait?

It may be a surprise to you but most people are capable of having opinions on more than one thing at a time.

Also, read the title of this thread. It isn't about housing.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 03:26:54 pm
1) I didn't.
2) Oh not just this issue no.  The coverage of Trump, the coverage of election horseraces YEARS before they occur.  I mean the list goes on and on...
3) You know ... I do have probably 4 or 5 trans friends and at least the same number of trans/nonbinary acquaintences right ?   For that matter, I am called out on here more than occasionally for defending Trans people, at least I perceive it as such.
4) But are you interested in 'media' and 'the public sphere' as a topic ?  You should.  This is, essentially, the central nervous system of any democracy.  They are taking news away piece by piece and replacing it with social issues that people fight over.  You're not concerned about that ?

1) You did:
Why do you think Trans women in sports needs a national conversation above housing ?

2) Trump and the next US election are very important, IMO.  The problem is not the issue, rather that a large number of news and commentary outlets are vying for viewers/readers.  They can't not report on it, or people will go elswhere.  Except you, apparently.

3) I have no trans friends or acquaintances whatsoever, but I also defend them, when I see a need.

4) Social issues that people fight over are news.  There are other things that are news as well.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 11, 2023, 03:37:33 pm
It may be a surprise to you but most people are capable of having opinions on more than one thing at a time.

Also, read the title of this thread. It isn't about housing.
My opinion is that it is about as real an issue as children being groomed by their school libraries. Talk about it all you want, but understand the reason why you're talking about it and it's not because women's sports are in peril.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 03:46:58 pm
My opinion is that it is about as real an issue as children being groomed by their school libraries. Talk about it all you want, but understand the reason why you're talking about it and it's not because women's sports are in peril.

Are there any children being groomed by their school libraries?  Because there are people being affected by the issue we are discussing.

That it's not a lot of people means it's not worth bothering about?

Also, can you tell me why I'm talking about it? I thought I knew, but now I'm wondering.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 11, 2023, 04:10:02 pm
Trans people competing in sports impacts two categories of people: trans people competing or desiring to compete in sports and the people they are potentially competing against. That's it.

What about their families and friends?  What about anyone who enjoys watching sports?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 11, 2023, 04:11:54 pm
Perhaps because it was purposely designed as a wedge issue to keep the masses nattering about that instead of the fact they can't afford to have a place to live anymore.

I don't think there's much if any evidence for this conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 04:12:45 pm
1) You did:
2) Trump and the next US election are very important, IMO. 
3) They can't not report on it, or people will go elswhere.  Except you, apparently.
4) I have no trans friends or acquaintances whatsoever, but I also defend them, when I see a need.
5) Social issues that people fight over are news.  There are other things that are news as well.

1) Yes I said I did.  But I didn't.
2) Not to the level CNN bleeds the story IMO.  It's ridiculous. 
3) Yeah, you are talking about what happened in the film Network - which we thought was fiction at the time.
4) Ergo, it's more personal for me but I can still talk about media coverage dispassionately.
5) So are hockey fights and such.

We're just going back and forth.  I think we're on the same page on 1) to 5) at this point but this is my question to you:

"are you interested in 'media' and 'the public sphere' as a topic ? " 

Or no ? 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 04:13:11 pm
I don't think there's much if any evidence for this conspiracy theory.

The algorithm makes it happen without people having to conspire.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 04:14:09 pm
Are there any children being groomed by their school libraries? 

Better example: A large MINORITY of people are REALLY MAD ABOUT INDOCTRINATION.  And that the election was stolen.

Therefore we should cover these ?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 11, 2023, 04:16:29 pm
Do you think people should resist falling for the stupid bait?

Invisible powerful forces are making us discuss this topic today on this forum?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 11, 2023, 04:22:03 pm
Now you're getting it. Notice no one mentions Muslims anymore?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 04:22:47 pm
1) Yes I said I did.  But I didn't.
2) Not to the level CNN bleeds the story IMO.  It's ridiculous. 
3) Yeah, you are talking about what happened in the film Network - which we thought was fiction at the time.
4) Ergo, it's more personal for me but I can still talk about media coverage dispassionately.
5) So are hockey fights and such.

We're just going back and forth.  I think we're on the same page on 1) to 5) at this point but this is my question to you:

"are you interested in 'media' and 'the public sphere' as a topic ? " 

Or no ?

I don't know.  I'm happy to argue that you are wrong about what constitutes worthiness, but I didn't know I would be until it happened.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 04:23:51 pm
Now you're getting it. Notice no one mentions Muslims anymore?

I do!  I still think Islam is a brutal, barbaric religion.  Christianity is making some headlines in the US right now as well, of course.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 04:25:06 pm
Better example: A large MINORITY of people are REALLY MAD ABOUT INDOCTRINATION.  And that the election was stolen.

Therefore we should cover these ?

I think it is very important to know what half the population is thinking, even if they're nuts.  It affects the sane as well.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 11, 2023, 04:34:26 pm
The algorithm makes it happen without people having to conspire.

Maybe so.  People like talking about it.   There is no algorithm on this website and the gender threads get tons of discussion.

If you want less discussion on this topic, in all honesty the first step would probably be for you to stop participating in these discussions.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 05:40:27 pm
I don't know.  I'm happy to argue that you are wrong about what constitutes worthiness, but I didn't know I would be until it happened.

You don't know if you're interested?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 05:41:02 pm
I think it is very important to know what half the population is thinking, even if they're nuts.  It affects the sane as well.

Minority means less than half
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 05:41:56 pm
Maybe so.  People like talking about it.   There is no algorithm on this website and the gender threads get tons of discussion.

If you want less discussion on this topic, in all honesty the first step would probably be for you to stop participating in these discussions.

I'm trying to steer the conversation towards that of the public sphere. People respond as though I'm talking about Xenu.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 05:48:55 pm
You don't know if you're interested?

That's right.  The 'media' and 'the public sphere' as a topic never held any interest for me, but I never experienced anyone saying certain issues are not worthy of it before.

So I don't know. 

I'll gladly argue that women's rights are an issue we should all be interested in, and that coverage should not be limited to abortion rights in Texas. 

But I don't know if I would be able to argue on the topic generally, as I have no background knowledge in it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 11, 2023, 05:49:53 pm
Minority means less than half

The less sane a minority is, the more observation they warrant.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 11, 2023, 05:51:22 pm
What about their families and friends?  What about anyone who enjoys watching sports?

Even if we add those, that's a damn sight short of "the entire western world".

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 11, 2023, 05:54:26 pm
I don't think there's much if any evidence for this conspiracy theory.


Quote
When the Supreme Court declared a constitutional right to same-sex marriage nearly eight years ago, social conservatives were set adrift.

The ruling stripped them of an issue they had used to galvanize rank-and-file supporters and big donors. And it left them searching for a cause that — like opposing gay marriage — would rally the base and raise the movement’s profile on the national stage.

“We knew we needed to find an issue that the candidates were comfortable talking about,” said Terry Schilling, the president of American Principles Project, a social conservative advocacy group. “And we threw everything at the wall.”

What has stuck, somewhat unexpectedly, is the issue of transgender identity, particularly among young people. Today, the effort to restrict transgender rights has supplanted same-sex marriage as an animating issue for social conservatives at a pace that has stunned political leaders across the spectrum. It has reinvigorated a network of conservative groups, increased fund-raising and set the agenda in school boards and state legislatures.
...
The effort started with a smattering of Republican lawmakers advancing legislation focused on transgender girls’ participation in school sports. And it was accelerated by a few influential Republican governors who seized on the issue early.

But it was also the result of careful planning by national conservative organizations to harness the emotion around gender politics. With gender norms shifting and a sharp rise in the number of young people identifying as transgender, conservative groups spotted an opening in a debate that was gaining attention.



How a Campaign Against Transgender Rights Mobilized Conservatives (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/16/us/politics/transgender-conservative-campaign.html)
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 11, 2023, 06:23:43 pm
My opinion is that it is about as real an issue as children being groomed by their school libraries. Talk about it all you want, but understand the reason why you're talking about it and it's not because women's sports are in peril.

Kids being groomed by teachers isn't a real thing. Biological males competing in women's sport is a matter of record. When you have biological males destroying women's records, it does threaten women's sport.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/35-time-racing-champion-quits-over-transgender-athletes-dominating-her-sport/ar-AA1eSdVd
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 07:51:31 pm
Is it a discussion?

Does a BAN on transgender women not deserve the same coverage?  Since it's the other side of the same coin?

Since it's an issue people care about?

I just Googled and found 1/2 a dozen bans of transgender women listed including CHESS.

Why isn't it covered?

Answer: because it doesn't make people ANGRY.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 11, 2023, 07:58:56 pm
Is it a discussion?

Does a BAN on transgender women not deserve the same coverage?  Since it's the other side of the same coin?

Since it's an issue people care about?

I just Googled and found 1/2 a dozen bans of transgender women listed including CHESS.

Why isn't it covered?

Answer: because it doesn't make people ANGRY.

You found it so obviously it is covered. I don't get the chess thing. Personally I am in favour of women and men competing together as long as it is on equal terms. When it comes to most of athletics, the terms are not equal.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 11, 2023, 08:52:20 pm

How a Campaign Against Transgender Rights Mobilized Conservatives (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/16/us/politics/transgender-conservative-campaign.html)

Evidence?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 11, 2023, 08:59:30 pm
I'm trying to steer the conversation towards that of the public sphere. People respond as though I'm talking about Xenu.

This the public sphere, as is Twitter.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 11, 2023, 09:12:13 pm
Even if we add those, that's a damn sight short of "the entire western world".

Every single person in the world who watches Olympic sports, which includes virtually everyone in the western world, will be affected by this issue.  They aren't just going to sit around and say nothing if women's Olympic records are broken by a bunch of biological men because organizers don't know the difference between sex and gender.

It's an important enough issue to our culture to warrant discussion and debate.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 09:30:12 pm
This the public sphere, as is Twitter.

Yes 👍🏾
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 11, 2023, 09:31:15 pm
You found it so obviously it is covered. I don't get the chess thing. Personally I am in favour of women and men competing together as long as it is on equal terms. When it comes to most of athletics, the terms are not equal.

It's covered, but not talked about anywhere near the other cases


Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on December 11, 2023, 09:38:37 pm
Kids being groomed by teachers isn't a real thing. Biological males competing in women's sport is a matter of record. When you have biological males destroying women's records, it does threaten women's sport.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/35-time-racing-champion-quits-over-transgender-athletes-dominating-her-sport/ar-AA1eSdVd


I sit on the fence about this one. I agree it’s disheartening to see trans women who went through puberty as men, who have only been on hormones for a year or two, competing with cis women. It’s not fair.

But to completely ban all trans women seems also unfair and discriminatory as well.

Do you believe there’s ever an instance where it would be acceptable?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 11, 2023, 09:42:05 pm

I sit on the fence about this one. I agree it’s disheartening to see trans women who went through puberty as men, who have only been on hormones for a year or two, competing with cis women. It’s not fair.

But to completely ban all trans women seems also unfair and discriminatory as well.

Do you believe there’s ever an instance where it would be acceptable?

How does one make it fair but also not discriminatory?  In all cases (that i can think of) where trans people are banned or allowed to compete in the biological sport category of their gender, someone is getting their rights restricted.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on December 11, 2023, 09:50:23 pm
How does one make it fair but also not discriminatory?  In all cases (that i can think of) where trans people are banned or allowed to compete in the biological sport category of their gender, someone is getting their rights restricted.

If a trans woman did not got through puberty as a man and has been on hormones for many years there isn’t really a physical advantage. You can maybe argue size but many women in sports are bigger than average women.

How is it still unfair?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 11, 2023, 10:23:13 pm
Evidence?

Read the fuckin article.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 11, 2023, 10:31:12 pm
Every single person in the world who watches Olympic sports, which includes virtually everyone in the western world, will be affected by this issue.  They aren't just going to sit around and say nothing if women's Olympic records are broken by a bunch of biological men because organizers don't know the difference between sex and gender.

It's an important enough issue to our culture to warrant discussion and debate.

Theres virtually zero chance this becomes an issue at the Olympics. the Venn diagram of elite athletes and transgender women (because no one has an issue with trans men competing against cis men) are two circles a mile apart. Transgender athletes have been allowed to compete at the Olympics since 2004 and in that time exactly one has made the cut and they bombed out spectacularly.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 12, 2023, 12:23:20 am
Theres virtually zero chance this becomes an issue at the Olympics. the Venn diagram of elite athletes and transgender women (because no one has an issue with trans men competing against cis men) are two circles a mile apart. Transgender athletes have been allowed to compete at the Olympics since 2004 and in that time exactly one has made the cut and they bombed out spectacularly.

The reason transgender athletes are unlikely to make an impact at upcoming Olympics is that elite level sporting organizations have been shamed into pulling the plug on it. Lia Thomas had his sights set on an Olympic medal, until the international governing body for aquatics announced new guidelines banning dudes from women's events.  Would Lia Thomas have won a medal?  He beat two Olympic medalists in winning his NCAA championship. And he didn't even compete in his best event at the NCAA championships-- he stopped competing in his strongest event after he attracted too much attention by beating the rest of the field by over half a minute. He probably got a phone call from Chase Strangio-- something along the lines of "if you don't stop humiliating the cis women you're going to ruin this for everybody!"

As for Laurel Hubbard... you guys act like his failure at the Olympics is proof that there's no retained male advantage.  The truth of the matter is that this was a 43 year old man who had never qualified for a single international event when he competed as a male in the prime of his career. But after retiring from competition, "discovering he was a woman" in his mid-30s, and returning to competition in his late-30s, he's suddenly an elite-level international competitor who qualified for numerous international competitions, won numerous international medals, and took one of 14 places at the Olympics. Without the gender transition aspect, the story of a washed-up never-was returning to a sport in their middle age to become an international star and compete at the Olympics is so absurdly improbable that it could only happen in a movie or an episode of the Simpsons. (there's more than a passing resemblance between Hubbard and Simpson, I'd suggest.)

Last Olympics, Canada's "Quinn" became the first transgender Olympic medalist.  Quinn (no first name) identifies as "trans and non-binary" and competes on the Canadian women's soccer team.  Quinn is a female-bodied person, competing on the women's team, without artificial hormones.  Which is exactly as it should be.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 12, 2023, 12:45:40 am
As less significant issues like war, the rise of authoritarianism, and the destruction of our livable environment distract us, it's important to pause and consider the truly important issues of our day.

This dogshit again?

I'll just cut-and-paste my response from the last time you chumps presented this bullshit (https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/general-discussion/gender-culture/?message=112277):

People say "Is this really the right time to talk about women's sports? There's (thing) going on right now, which is a lot more important."  It's a bad faith argument.

1) People people who say this are proposing that they want to talk about males competing in women's sports later, but only after (thing) is resolved. They truth is that they don't actually want to talk about males competing in women's sports, and if (thing) ever gets resolved there'll always be a next (thing) that's an excuse to not address men in women's sports.

2) It implies that we can only pay attention to one thing at a time. Our governments are large organizations that can actually handle many issues at once. We  have a Minister of Sport, whose input isn't vital to working on the housing crisis or the affordability crisis or the climate crisis. The pandemic was still in high gear on Joe Biden's first day in office, but he still found time to sign their new equality bill that replaced biological sex with gender identity in legal definitions.

3) wokies never use this argument on issues that they support.  You'll never hear a wokie say "I am really committed to getting trans women prisoners housed in women's prisons, but it has to wait until after we solve the housing crisis."  Somehow they managed to get males into women's sports with a minimum of consultation without anybody even noticing when it happened, despite all the other pressing issues.

4) the scale of effort is quite different. Getting biological males out of women's sports would only take 5 minutes; solving housing, affordability, carbon emissions, etc etc, are multi-year or multi-decade aspirations that take regular and frequent (but not all-consuming) work. Our governments can always find 5 minutes to proclaim a holiday for Truth and Reconciliation or an inquiry or fund a battery plant or ban some guns or whatever; certainly they could find 5 minutes to get men out of women's sports.






Are people finally starting to come around to my point of view about our capacity for public discussion? I hope so.

How many more years are we going to talk about trans women in sports as a national issue?

We could stop talking about it very quickly if "progressives" would wake dafug up and do the right thing.


 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 12, 2023, 12:51:12 am
Read the fuckin article.

No.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 12, 2023, 12:52:02 am
If a trans woman did not got through puberty as a man and has been on hormones for many years there isn’t really a physical advantage. You can maybe argue size but many women in sports are bigger than average women.

How is it still unfair?

I don't know...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on December 12, 2023, 01:14:40 am
Is it a discussion?

Does a BAN on transgender women not deserve the same coverage?  Since it's the other side of the same coin?

Since it's an issue people care about?

I just Googled and found 1/2 a dozen bans of transgender women listed including CHESS.

Why isn't it covered?

Answer: because it doesn't make people ANGRY.

What? Who says it doesn't get coverage? I certainly remember seeing coverage of these bans. I remember seeing the absurdly slanted articles on BBC and CBC and NPR interviewing some trans athlete like Emily Bridges or Austin Killips or whoever else talking about how sad and unfair it is that their Olympic dreams have been shattered. These articles invariably have comment from the athlete themselves, and from a professor of Woke Studies at Woke St University in Woke City Wokelahoma, and no comment at all from female athletes or from scientists who've done credible research on the subject.

I'm actually somewhat confused by your whole angle here. What makes you say those bans didn't get any coverage?  What makes you say that trans athletes winning stuff gets too much coverage? What metric are you using to determine how much coverage either of these things are getting? To my estimation, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of coverage of trans athletes in mainstream news media. I doubt you heard about the trans weightlifter dude before I posted about it here. I doubt you heard that one of his opponents got banned from the league for 2 years for speaking out about it, either.  Is your metric for how much press the topic gets based on how much Kimmy or Shady post about it here? Because otherwise I'm kind of at a loss to see where you're getting that from.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 12, 2023, 09:05:01 am
What? Who says it doesn't get coverage? I certainly remember seeing coverage of these bans. I remember seeing the absurdly slanted articles on BBC and CBC and NPR interviewing some trans athlete like Emily Bridges or Austin Killips or whoever else talking about how sad and unfair it is that their Olympic dreams have been shattered. These articles invariably have comment from the athlete themselves, and from a professor of Woke Studies at Woke St University in Woke City Wokelahoma, and no comment at all from female athletes or from scientists who've done credible research on the subject.

I'm actually somewhat confused by your whole angle here. What makes you say those bans didn't get any coverage?  What makes you say that trans athletes winning stuff gets too much coverage? What metric are you using to determine how much coverage either of these things are getting? To my estimation, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of coverage of trans athletes in mainstream news media. I doubt you heard about the trans weightlifter dude before I posted about it here. I doubt you heard that one of his opponents got banned from the league for 2 years for speaking out about it, either.  Is your metric for how much press the topic gets based on how much Kimmy or Shady post about it here? Because otherwise I'm kind of at a loss to see where you're getting that from.

 -k

Well I'm not lying.

I get my news from, yes, what is chatted about on here and other boards. And mainstream sources that make it into my google feed.

I'm thinking that you listen to more Woke sources than me, like NPR, which I don't listen to. But for sure I didn't see anything about trans women banned from sports in any of my feeds. Sorry.

You answered the question.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 12, 2023, 09:34:29 am

I sit on the fence about this one. I agree it’s disheartening to see trans women who went through puberty as men, who have only been on hormones for a year or two, competing with cis women. It’s not fair.

But to completely ban all trans women seems also unfair and discriminatory as well.

Do you believe there’s ever an instance where it would be acceptable?

Yes, do what some sports have already done, not allow anyone who transitioned after puberty.

It isn't just because men who have transitioned after puberty have a physiological advantage, every biological man who wins a place on a women's team, denies a biological woman a place on a women's team.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 12, 2023, 10:01:11 am
The reason transgender athletes are unlikely to make an impact at upcoming Olympics is that elite level sporting organizations have been shamed into pulling the plug on it.

And, again, the number of trans athletes is tiny and the number of elite-level trans athletes even smaller.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 12, 2023, 10:10:53 am
And, again, the number of trans athletes is tiny and the number of elite-level trans athletes even smaller.

So? If there  are only three in a particular sport and they end up taking three spots on a national team, what does that say to elite biological women athletes other than they might as well not bother?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 12, 2023, 10:39:34 am
So? If there  are only three in a particular sport and they end up taking three spots on a national team, what does that say to elite biological women athletes other than they might as well not bother?

I'm not sure such an improbable hypothetical even needs to be addressed. The odds of there being three transwomen in a given sport who are also good enough to make the national team is probably lower than me making the national team in any given sport.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 12, 2023, 11:28:32 am
I'm not sure such an improbable hypothetical even needs to be addressed. The odds of there being three transwomen in a given sport who are also good enough to make the national team is probably lower than me making the national team in any given sport.

It isn’t improbable or hypothetical, the 35 time winner is quitting at age 25. In her last race she was flanked by trans riders and has decided her sport is now a dead end for her. Swimmers are facing the same thing. You just want to believe it isn’t happening. What do you care, you aren’t a woman who has worked and sacrificed for years to get to the top of her sport only to find she now has to compete against biological males.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 12, 2023, 05:14:04 pm
It isn’t improbable or hypothetical, the 35 time winner is quitting at age 25. In her last race she was flanked by trans riders and has decided her sport is now a dead end for her.

Seems like a bit of an overreaction to finishing in fourth instead of third, but ok.  Cyclocross, whatever that is, isn't an Olympic sport anyway.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 12, 2023, 05:17:46 pm
I've been seeing significantly more trans people (trans women specifically) when I've been out and about the last few years than at any other point in my life.  This doesn't include people you can't tell are trans at first glance. Anyone else noticed this?

Glad people are feeling more free to express themselves as they want.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 12, 2023, 05:51:40 pm
Seems like a bit of an overreaction to finishing in fourth instead of third, but ok.  Cyclocross, whatever that is, isn't an Olympic sport anyway.

Over reaction to you, you haven't spent most of your life getting to the top of your sport.

Not an Olympic sport but an internationally sanctioned sport that has had a world championship since 1950.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/18/sport/lia-thomas-transgender-ivy-league-swim-championships/index.html

https://tnc.news/2023/08/15/trans-powerlifter-world-record/

https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/trans-runner-wins-another-womens-race-one-year-after-breaking-record-angering-critics
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 11:03:56 am
Over reaction to you, you haven't spent most of your life getting to the top of your sport.

It's just weird to me that she's like "I can't compete because trans people are too dominant" after a race where the top two spots went to cis women.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 14, 2023, 11:12:29 am
It's just weird to me that she's like "I can't compete because trans people are too dominant" after a race where the top two spots went to cis women.

Quote
On Saturday, trans cyclist Tiffany Thomas, 47, was photographed with her arms aloft in victory at the top of the podium at the Randall’s Island Crit — at least her 20th win since she started racing in 2018, while already in her 40s.

https://meaww.com/who-is-tiffany-thomas-trans-cyclist-winner-accused-of-cheating
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 11:27:39 am
https://meaww.com/who-is-tiffany-thomas-trans-cyclist-winner-accused-of-cheating


https://www.road-results.com/racer/167246
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 14, 2023, 11:29:09 am
https://meaww.com/who-is-tiffany-thomas-trans-cyclist-winner-accused-of-cheating

These cheaters should not be honoured. There really needs to be a separate category for Transgender athletes.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 12:02:11 pm
These cheaters should not be honoured. There really needs to be a separate category for Transgender athletes.

This might sound crazy but sports should be regulated by logic and science and not emotion.  People whose emotions are easily offended can't handle that though.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 14, 2023, 12:05:49 pm
It's just weird to me that she's like "I can't compete because trans people are too dominant" after a race where the top two spots went to cis women.
What the f**k is a cis woman?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 14, 2023, 12:26:01 pm
Poor incel. 😂
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 14, 2023, 12:30:22 pm

https://www.road-results.com/racer/167246

I don't know what she has been doing lately but the year she started she had 4 podiums out of 10 races and in 2019 she had 11 firsts and 18 podiums out of 31 races at an age of 42. Name another high performance athlete, male or female that has done that.

You still haven't explained why cis women should have to compete against biological males in women's sport.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 01:42:21 pm
I don't know what she has been doing lately but the year she started she had 4 podiums out of 10 races and in 2019 she had 11 firsts and 18 podiums out of 31 races at an age of 42. Name another high performance athlete, male or female that has done that.

You really need to dig into those results, they aren't that impressive. a lot of races where they finished a second ahead or with the exact same times. And these are recreatonal weekend warrior events too.

Quote
You still haven't explained why cis women should have to compete against biological males in women's sport.

I've made my views on this clear in the past.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 14, 2023, 03:08:16 pm
You really need to dig into those results, they aren't that impressive. a lot of races where they finished a second ahead or with the exact same times. And these are recreatonal weekend warrior events too.


She also had races where she finished a minute and a half ahead of second place and lapped the rest of the field.

Quote
I've made my views on this clear in the past.

Yes, you don't think women's sport should be for women.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 03:35:10 pm
She also had races where she finished a minute and a half ahead of second place and lapped the rest of the field.

Do you think no cis woman has ever kicked the hell out of the competition in a race? Like are these results extremely out of the ordinary? You would think that if the biological advantage was so determinative of success, these trans competitors would be crushing the competition every time.

Quote
Yes, you don't think women's sport should be for women.

I don't think I've ever said that, no.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 14, 2023, 03:53:36 pm
Do you think no cis woman has ever kicked the hell out of the competition in a race? Like are these results extremely out of the ordinary? You would think that if the biological advantage was so determinative of success, these trans competitors would be crushing the competition every time.



Why would they be crushing them every time? They sure are having a lot of success if as you say there are so few of them.

Quote
I don't think I've ever said that, no.

You think it. Why else would you think non women should be able to compete in women's sport?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 14, 2023, 04:24:17 pm
He certainly does not. Black Dog will deny this, but from his own postings, he fully supports biological males encroaching on Women's spaces, especially sports.
Exactly.  This is what Black Dope considers progress.  Some people need their heads examined.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 14, 2023, 04:24:45 pm

I've made my views on this clear in the past.
You fully support biological males encroaching on Women's spaces, especially sports.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 04:37:13 pm
Why would they be crushing them every time?

What are you forgetting your own arguments now?

Quote
They sure are having a lot of success if as you say there are so few of them.

No, not really.

Quote
You think it. Why else would you think non women should be able to compete in women's sport?

I've always said it should be on a case by case basis.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 14, 2023, 04:40:05 pm
I've always said it should be on a case by case basis.

The case-by-case basis should be in regards to what chromosomes the athlete was born with. If they have XY chromosomes, then they should not be allowed to compete in Women's sports.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 04:44:05 pm
Exactly.  This is what Black Dope considers progress.  Some people need their heads examined.

(Attachment Link)

Great photo to use dumbfuck.

Quote
Mack Beggs (born 1999) is an American former high school wrestler from Euless, Texas. Beggs is a trans man. State athletic rules only allowed him to compete in the league for the sex he was assigned at birth. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 14, 2023, 05:11:09 pm
Great photo to use dumbfuck.
I can use lots of photos dipsh*t.  It doesn’t make your argument any more sane.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 14, 2023, 05:16:25 pm
Good arguments. Don't need photos.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 14, 2023, 05:25:35 pm
Good arguments. Don't need photos.
A pictures worth a thousand words.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 14, 2023, 05:33:18 pm
What are you forgetting your own arguments now?


If there are so few competing, they sure are doing a lot of winning.

Quote
No, not really.
Ya really.

Quote
I've always said it should be on a case by case basis.

What case by case? Should non women be allowed to compete in women's sport?
 
Why don't you like women?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 05:35:13 pm
If there are so few competing, they sure are doing a lot of winning.

Not really, no.

Quote
What case by case? Should non women be allowed to compete in women's sport?
 

Depends on the sport and the individual.

Quote
Why don't you like women?

Grow up.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 14, 2023, 05:40:55 pm
A pictures worth a thousand words.

For sure. Lots of words but....
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 14, 2023, 05:41:22 pm

 
Why don't you like women?
I was actually going to say someone will likely soon say exactly this. There is a certain element who cannot engage in any debate whatsoever without resorting to the old "Such hatred! Tsk tsk" argument.  See Israel.

The ironic part is (although they will vociferously deny it) they absolutely hate Palestinians and trans people, etc.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 14, 2023, 05:43:03 pm
A pictures worth a thousand words.
So in the case of the first photo you posted, where should he be allowed to compete?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 14, 2023, 05:45:24 pm
I was actually going to say someone will likely soon say exactly this. There is a certain element who cannot engage in any debate whatsoever without resorting to the old "Such hatred! Tsk tsk" argument.  See Israel.

The ironic part is (although they will vociferously deny it) they absolutely hate Palestinians and trans people, etc.

Way to lump us all into one narrow category. BTW, it should be noted that if we are more sympathetic to Israel, we repeatedly are called "genocide supporters" or "Islamophobic."  Classic gaslighting

A definite case of pot calling the kettle black.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 14, 2023, 05:57:47 pm
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on December 14, 2023, 06:00:30 pm
Yes, do what some sports have already done, not allow anyone who transitioned after puberty.

It isn't just because men who have transitioned after puberty have a physiological advantage, every biological man who wins a place on a women's team, denies a biological woman a place on a women's team.

I agree fundamentally with this exemption as well.

It seems though that most of the people yelling the loudest about trans women being in women’s sports are also yelling about allowing minors to transition before puberty.

It becomes a catch 22.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 14, 2023, 06:14:40 pm
(Attachment Link)
You're scurrying from two simple questions in one day? I'm on a roll!
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 06:20:07 pm
I've made my views on this clear in the past.

If you believe transwomen are women then you would have had no problem dating a transwoman when you were single, correct?  I assume you would also have sex with a transwoman you were attracted to?

Or maybe you discriminate against transwomen because they aren't biologically the same as cis women....while believing sports should treat transwomen exactly like all other women?

I invite all straight cis men who think transwomen should compete with cis women in sports to open-mouth kiss a transwoman who is considered "attractive" to prove us all wrong.  You're first up BD....

*drops mic*
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 14, 2023, 06:25:21 pm
I agree fundamentally with this exemption as well.

It seems though that most of the people yelling the loudest about trans women being in women’s sports are also yelling about allowing minors to transition before puberty.

It becomes a catch 22.
Allowing a child to transition before puberty is barbaric and tantamount to child abuse.  Children aren’t allowed to get tattoos or piercings but we expect them to decide this type of thing?  Beyond absurd. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 14, 2023, 06:27:33 pm
If you believe transwomen are women then you would have had no problem dating a transwoman when you were single, correct?  I assume you would also have sex with a transwoman you were attracted to?

Or maybe you discriminate against transwomen because they aren't biologically the same as cis women....while believing sports should treat transwomen exactly like all other women?

I invite all straight cis men who think transwomen should compete with cis women in sports to open-mouth kiss a transwoman who is considered "attractive" to prove us all wrong.  You're first up BD....

*drops mic*
Trans women are not women, they’re biological men.  Hence the term trans before women.  Otherwise they’d just be called women.  20 years from now society is going to look back on this in disbelief.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 14, 2023, 06:34:45 pm
So your point in posting the first picture of the trans man  wrestling a woman was...?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on December 14, 2023, 06:37:54 pm
If you believe transwomen are women then you would have had no problem dating a transwoman when you were single, correct?  I assume you would also have sex with a transwoman you were attracted to?

Or maybe you discriminate against transwomen because they aren't biologically the same as cis women....while believing sports should treat transwomen exactly like all other women?

I invite all straight cis men who think transwomen should compete with cis women in sports to open-mouth kiss a transwoman who is considered "attractive" to prove us all wrong.  You're first up BD....

*drops mic*

I was genuinely surprised once when a friend said he wouldn't date a trans woman. I don't get it, I couldn't care less, I'd date a trans man if the vibe was right.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 14, 2023, 06:40:04 pm
I was genuinely surprised once when a friend said he wouldn't date a trans woman. I don't get it, I couldn't care less, I'd date a trans man if the vibe was right.
If your friend isn’t homosexual, then I doubt he’d want to date a trans man, ie biological male.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 14, 2023, 06:40:57 pm
So your point in posting the first picture of the trans man  wrestling a woman was...?
You have no argument.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 14, 2023, 06:43:43 pm
I agree fundamentally with this exemption as well.

It seems though that most of the people yelling the loudest about trans women being in women’s sports are also yelling about allowing minors to transition before puberty.

It becomes a catch 22.

Two different issues.

None of us can do everything we want. We aren't entitled to excel at anything. Should able bodied people be able to compete in para sports? Are they being discriminated against because they can't? We differentiate to make it fair, not the other way around.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on December 14, 2023, 06:45:36 pm
If your friend isn’t homosexual, then I doubt he’d want to date a trans man, ie biological male.

Only if you equate gender with sex which is a pretty small minded approach. I think some butchy lesbians are hot too.

It's about the masculine energy, not what's between the legs.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on December 14, 2023, 06:59:14 pm
Two different issues.

None of us can do everything we want. We aren't entitled to excel at anything. Should able bodied people be able to compete in para sports? Are they being discriminated against because they can't? We differentiate to make it fair, not the other way around.

I know they're different issues but they are intertwined. It seems the only way to fully accept trans people is when they're 'passing' and the best way to do that is to transition before puberty. Just seems like some people (cough cough, shady), just want to create an environment for trans people to fail.

I agree trans women competing in women sports is a complex issue. I don't see the problem with bathrooms so much but I do agree sports is more controversial.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 14, 2023, 07:13:08 pm
You have no argument.

(Attachment Link)
Are you saying trans people shouldn't be allowed to compete at all? Your picture seems to suggest you don't think they should be competing with others of their birth gender.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 14, 2023, 07:15:59 pm
I know they're different issues but they are intertwined. It seems the only way to fully accept trans people is when they're 'passing' and the best way to do that is to transition before puberty. Just seems like some people (cough cough, shady), just want to create an environment for trans people to fail.

I agree trans women competing in women sports is a complex issue. I don't see the problem with bathrooms so much but I do agree sports is more controversial.

When it comes to sports, it isn't that complex. Trans people are not women. It is really very simple.

Washrooms are a social issue, not a performance issue.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 14, 2023, 07:20:50 pm
So you're saying Matt Beggs should be forced to kick lady butt if he wants to compete? I thought you were concerned about an uneven playing field.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 07:24:44 pm
If you believe transwomen are women then you would have had no problem dating a transwoman when you were single, correct?  I assume you would also have sex with a transwoman you were attracted to?

Or maybe you discriminate against transwomen because they aren't biologically the same as cis women....while believing sports should treat transwomen exactly like all other women?

I invite all straight cis men who think transwomen should compete with cis women in sports to open-mouth kiss a transwoman who is considered "attractive" to prove us all wrong.  You're first up BD....

*drops mic*

lol how do you know who I might have dated/hooked up with?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 14, 2023, 08:06:20 pm
That was the lamest, most convoluted and confused mic drop I've ever seen. Would you kiss someone you consider attractive? Huh?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 14, 2023, 08:25:36 pm
Allowing a child to transition before puberty is barbaric and tantamount to child abuse.  Children aren’t allowed to get tattoos or piercings but we expect them to decide this type of thing?  Beyond absurd.

It's up to the parents.. of course there are under 18s with tattoos. Piercings, and even fake boobs.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 08:34:56 pm
That was the lamest, most convoluted and confused mic drop I've ever seen. Would you kiss someone you consider attractive? Huh?

So you're saying you would date a transwoman?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 08:35:15 pm
lol how do you know who I might have dated/hooked up with?

So you're saying you would date a transwoman?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 14, 2023, 08:35:55 pm
It's a lame strawman. They always have to exaggerate and invent things that aren't really happening to make their point
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 14, 2023, 08:36:36 pm
So you're saying you would date a transwoman?
You're saying you wouldn't date one you found attractive?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 08:37:10 pm
It's up to the parents.. of course there are under 18s with tattoos. Piercings, and even fake boobs.

Parents and surgeons giving fake boobs to healthy normal people under 16 years old should be charged with a crime.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 08:38:17 pm
You're saying you wouldn't date one you found attractive?

No.  Would you?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 14, 2023, 08:43:30 pm
No.  Would you?
If I found them attractive? Sure. Why would you not date someone you are attracted to?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 14, 2023, 08:51:06 pm
Parents and surgeons giving fake boobs to healthy normal people under 16 years old should be charged with a crime.
Like shady, the less you know about something, the more certain you are about it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 14, 2023, 08:54:26 pm
If I found them attractive? Sure. Why would you not date someone you are attracted to?

When I first saw "The Crying Game" I would have been very happy to date Jaye Davidson.  Not once the penny dropped though.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 08:55:26 pm
So you're saying you would date a transwoman?

Are they hot? Do they have a good personality? Then yeah, sure.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 14, 2023, 08:59:30 pm
It's up to the parents.
No, parents can’t choose to abuse their children.  Regardless, children aren’t mentally developed enough, nor have they had sufficient life experience to make permanent life altering decisions.  The fact that this is even up for debate illustrates just how far society has deteriorated.  But cosmetic surgery for children is now a billion dollar industry.  All under the guise of health care.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 08:59:48 pm
This thread is very useful in showing how many people pretending to be deeply concerned about the state of women’s amateur sports are actually just repulsed by the existence of trans people.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 09:02:42 pm
No, parents can’t choose to abuse their children.  Regardless, children aren’t mentally developed enough, nor have they had sufficient life experience to make permanent life altering decisions.  The fact that this is even up for debate illustrates just how far society has deteriorated.  But cosmetic surgery for children is now a billion dollar industry.  All under the guise of health care.

If it’s a billion dollar industry it’s not because of the minuscule number of trans people who receive gender affirming care. Oh, I k is you think it’s a widespread issue but as usual, you’ve offered zero evidence to support that assertion and so it can be dismissed as the product of a fevered mind obsessed with children’s genitalia.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 14, 2023, 09:04:02 pm
Parents and surgeons giving fake boobs to healthy normal people under 16 years old should be charged with a crime.
Many European countries have either banned, or paused this nonsense.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 14, 2023, 09:07:52 pm
This thread is very useful in showing how many people pretending to be deeply concerned about the state of women’s amateur sports are actually just repulsed by the existence of trans people.

Are you suggesting one can't support trans rights without wanting to have sex with them?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 14, 2023, 09:09:24 pm

This thread is very useful in showing how many people pretending to be deeply concerned about the state of women’s amateur sports are actually just repulsed by the existence of trans people.


"I will just label whoever disagrees with me "transphobic."
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 14, 2023, 09:13:33 pm
Parents and surgeons giving fake boobs to healthy normal people under 16 years old should be charged with a crime.

Except, one article I saw cited 40X the number of breast augmentation surgeries, including implants, for underage girls.

And we've never heard of that as an issue before.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 14, 2023, 09:17:55 pm
No, parents can’t choose to abuse their children.  Regardless, children aren’t mentally developed enough, nor have they had sufficient life experience to make permanent life altering decisions.  The fact that this is even up for debate illustrates just how far society has deteriorated.  But cosmetic surgery for children is now a billion dollar industry.  All under the guise of health care.

I feel that the starting point for the discussion is that nothing trans should happen underage.

All other rules around it seem to follow that prime directive.  Sometimes we're told that the parents should approve or be informed, other times not. 

The courts have said that adolescents own their bodies.

I defer to the deep work that has been done with caring professionals and their families.  I'm open to talking about concerns but I demand good faith and humble arguments focused on the person at the centre.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 14, 2023, 09:25:33 pm
Are you suggesting one can't support trans rights without wanting to have sex with them?

I was wondering the same thing.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 14, 2023, 09:34:36 pm
The courts have said that adolescents own their bodies.
In what respect?  Which court decision are you referring to?  Adolescents are generally considered ages 10-19.  Are you comparing a 10 year old to an 18 or 19 year old? 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 14, 2023, 09:43:46 pm
Also, let's be clear... One kind of body altering surgery is undertaken by wealthy Republican families so CLEARLY nothing could be wrong with this.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 14, 2023, 09:45:31 pm
In what respect?  Which court decision are you referring to?  Adolescents are generally considered ages 10-19.  Are you comparing a 10 year old to an 18 or 19 year old?

There's no set age.  The courts have adopted the assumption of the "mature minor" who decides what is best for their health, generally.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 10:24:39 pm
Are you suggesting one can't support trans rights without wanting to have sex with them?

No Queefer is.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 10:26:24 pm
In what respect?  Which court decision are you referring to?  Adolescents are generally considered ages 10-19.  Are you comparing a 10 year old to an 18 or 19 year old?

Hey dumbfuck we’re still waiting for the proof that there are tons of kids getting surgery (because you don’t have any).
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 14, 2023, 10:33:43 pm
No Queefer is.

I'll let Queefer answer for himself, but that's not how I saw your post.

Given how handy it was, what was the number you came up with?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on December 14, 2023, 10:42:53 pm
I'll let Queefer answer for himself, but that's not how I saw your post.


Queefer was asserting that trans women are not women and to make his point he implied BD wouldn't date one.

This was the post:

If you believe transwomen are women then you would have had no problem dating a transwoman when you were single, correct?  I assume you would also have sex with a transwoman you were attracted to?

Or maybe you discriminate against transwomen because they aren't biologically the same as cis women....while believing sports should treat transwomen exactly like all other women?

I invite all straight cis men who think transwomen should compete with cis women in sports to open-mouth kiss a transwoman who is considered "attractive" to prove us all wrong.  You're first up BD....

*drops mic*


Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 14, 2023, 10:46:34 pm
I'll let Queefer answer for himself, but that's not how I saw your post.

Given how handy it was, what was the number you came up with?

The **** are you talking about.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 14, 2023, 10:54:53 pm

Queefer was asserting that trans women are not women and to make his point he implied BD wouldn't date one.

This was the post:

I think that, at some point in the trans process, it can be legitimate to refer to a trans woman as a woman.  I don't know what that point is, as I'm not familiar with the specifics of the process. 

But at no point would I date one either. 

I just don't see the problem with that.  I fully support gay rights, but I'm not going to date a gay man.  I don't care if he looks like Raquel Welch.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 10:55:45 pm
Except, one article I saw cited 40X the number of breast augmentation surgeries, including implants, for underage girls.

And we've never heard of that as an issue before.

That's fantastic for our society, sign them up for basketball.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 14, 2023, 10:57:34 pm
The **** are you talking about.

You said the thread was useful in showing how many people pretending to be deeply concerned about the state of women’s amateur sports are actually just repulsed by the existence of trans people.

I was wondering how many you came up with.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 10:59:25 pm
If I found them attractive? Sure. Why would you not date someone you are attracted to?

Well that's great you're attracted to Adam's apples.  Most straight guys aren't.  I'll let you guess as to why.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 11:03:30 pm
Are they hot? Do they have a good personality? Then yeah, sure.

So you're bisexual?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on December 14, 2023, 11:06:06 pm
I think that, at some point in the trans process, it can be legitimate to refer to a trans woman as a woman.  I don't know what that point is, as I'm not familiar with the specifics of the process. 

But at no point would I date one either. 

I just don't see the problem with that.  I fully support gay rights, but I'm not going to date a gay man.  I don't care if he looks like Raquel Welch.


Conflating a trans woman with a gay man and using the wrong pronoun doesn't sound very supportive of trans rights. Just sayin.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on December 14, 2023, 11:12:37 pm
So you're bisexual?

What a ridiculously simplistic view.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 14, 2023, 11:13:06 pm

Conflating a trans woman with a gay man and using the wrong pronoun doesn't sound very supportive of trans rights. Just sayin.

Nevertheless, I am supportive of trans rights, just as I am of gay rights.  If you think I have to have a sexual relationship with one to show that such is the case, I suggest you are wrong.

As for pronouns, I never even noticed.  Could you point out where I did that?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 11:15:59 pm
This thread is very useful in showing how many people pretending to be deeply concerned about the state of women’s amateur sports are actually just repulsed by the existence of trans people.

No, the point is that straight men (which you and Bubber have just admitted you aren't) don't want to date other biological males and put male tongues inside their mouths.  The reason is because trans women are biologically male and not biologically the same as cis women and everyone knows this.

There's no reason for a man to be "repulsed" by a transwoman any more than a cis male. That's just you trying to develop ridiculous strawmen.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 11:19:24 pm

Queefer was asserting that trans women are not women and to make his point he implied BD wouldn't date one.

This was the post:

Well I stated straight men wouldn't date a trans woman.  I wrongly assumed BD and Bubber were straight, but I was wrong, they're both bisexual and would enjoy kissing male tongue.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 14, 2023, 11:21:13 pm
Nevertheless, I am supportive of trans rights, just as I am of gay rights.  If you think I have to have a sexual relationship with one to show that such is the case, I suggest you are wrong.

As for pronouns, I never even noticed.  Could you point out where I did that?

He always does this.

He projects unto others. Just like on the Israel-Hamas thread, where he calls people who are more sympathetic to Israel, either "genocide supporters" or "Islamophobic,"  he will throw around the "transphobic" label if one has a differing opinion than him.  People who have subpar debating skills do this all the time.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 11:34:07 pm
I think that, at some point in the trans process, it can be legitimate to refer to a trans woman as a woman.  I don't know what that point is, as I'm not familiar with the specifics of the process. 

But at no point would I date one either. 

I just don't see the problem with that.  I fully support gay rights, but I'm not going to date a gay man.  I don't care if he looks like Raquel Welch.

We can call a transwoman whatever we want.  They are indeed half female, their gender is female, we already know this and gender theory states as such.  But their biology is male. We don't separate sports based on how people choose to express themselves on the masculine-feminine spectrum, it's based on biology, not gender.  Society should not support the falsehood that the biology of a transwoman is the same as a cis woman.

I don't think society should be suppressing facts and science to spare some people's feelings, no matter how victimized as a group they indeed are, especially when its at the expense of the rights of another group.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 11:37:33 pm
He always does this.

He projects unto others. Just like on the Israel-Hamas thread, where he calls people who are more sympathetic to Israel, either "genocide supporters" or "Islamophobic,"  he will throw around the "transphobic" label if one has a differing opinion than him.  People who have subpar debating skills do this all the time.

He can make up lies and throw around whatever accusations and narratives he wants, it doesn't change my argument.  This is a typical tactic of progressives.  They try to shame and guilt and bully people into compliance.  But this doesn't work on an anonymous message board LOL.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 14, 2023, 11:47:01 pm
What a ridiculously simplistic view.

If a person is attracted to people of either sex it makes that person a bisexual.  Black Dog and Bubber are bisexuals and not straight then by their own admittance.  If they like the male tongue and would date a biological man that's fine.

But my argument is that a straight male would not date a transwoman.  I'm very confident a public opinion poll of straight men would confirm that.  And we know why they wouldn't date a transwoman and it has to do with biology, and no amount of artificial hormones or plastic surgery can change that because biological sex is not changeable via those methods.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2023, 06:24:06 am
That's fantastic for our society, sign them up for basketball.

I don't get the joke.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 15, 2023, 06:42:29 am
So then you misphrased your question. It shouldn't have been whether you would date a trans person you found attractive. It should have been whether you would date a trans person, period. All that because of a poorly worded survey.

Nevertheless it was a good question that I doubt you would answer honestly. Would you date a trans woman if you found her irresistably attractive? 😂
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2023, 07:02:51 am

I don't think society should be suppressing facts and science to spare some people's feelings, no matter how victimized as a group they indeed are, especially when its at the expense of the rights of another group.

Nor should we go out of our way to use science, or any other framework, to interfere with other people who are trying to pursue their own happiness and their own truth.

When we talk about rights accommodation, some people may give up some ideas or some boundaries in order to afford happiness to others.

I don't believe that it's up to people to protect their rights at all costs.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2023, 07:11:19 am
So then you misphrased your question. It shouldn't have been whether you would date a trans person you found attractive. It should have been whether you would date a trans person, period. All that because of a poorly worded survey.

Nevertheless it was a good question that I doubt you would answer honestly. Would you date a trans woman if you found her irresistably attractive? 😂

Isn't this exercise rather silly? Who can predict who they're ever going to be attracted to? Lots of guys change teams in their 50s and 60s.

I myself had to deny my irresistible attraction to the chubby set for many a year. You don't know what you don't know.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 15, 2023, 08:54:04 am
He always does this.

He projects unto others. Just like on the Israel-Hamas thread, where he calls people who are more sympathetic to Israel, either "genocide supporters" or "Islamophobic,"  he will throw around the "transphobic" label if one has a differing opinion than him.  People who have subpar debating skills do this all the time.

Actually my response there was to BC_cheque...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 15, 2023, 08:58:22 am
We can call a transwoman whatever we want.  They are indeed half female, their gender is female, we already know this and gender theory states as such.  But their biology is male. We don't separate sports based on how people choose to express themselves on the masculine-feminine spectrum, it's based on biology, not gender.  Society should not support the falsehood that the biology of a transwoman is the same as a cis woman.

I don't think society should be suppressing facts and science to spare some people's feelings, no matter how victimized as a group they indeed are, especially when its at the expense of the rights of another group.

You certainly can.  So can I.

I said that at some point in the trans process, it can be legitimate to refer to a trans woman as a woman.  And as that is what the trans process is all about, I'll stick with that.

As for competing rights, I've made my position clear more than once.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 15, 2023, 09:37:41 am
You said the thread was useful in showing how many people pretending to be deeply concerned about the state of women’s amateur sports are actually just repulsed by the existence of trans people.

I was wondering how many you came up with.

At least three.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 15, 2023, 09:38:58 am
He always does this.

He projects unto others. Just like on the Israel-Hamas thread, where he calls people who are more sympathetic to Israel, either "genocide supporters" or "Islamophobic,"  he will throw around the "transphobic" label if one has a differing opinion than him.  People who have subpar debating skills do this all the time.

LOL you're the pu$$y who calls people "antisemitic" and scurries away when asked for proof, you should probably shut the f**k up forever about "subpar debating skills" retard.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 15, 2023, 09:42:04 am
No, the point is that straight men (which you and Bubber have just admitted you aren't) don't want to date other biological males and put male tongues inside their mouths.  The reason is because trans women are biologically male and not biologically the same as cis women and everyone knows this.

There's no reason for a man to be "repulsed" by a transwoman any more than a cis male. That's just you trying to develop ridiculous strawmen.

Do you think men's tongues are barbed like cats' or that you'd be able to tell the difference? Are you one of those clowns who thinks you can always tell when someone is trans?

If a person is attracted to people of either sex it makes that person a bisexual.  Black Dog and Bubber are bisexuals and not straight then by their own admittance.  If they like the male tongue and would date a biological man that's fine.

But my argument is that a straight male would not date a transwoman.  I'm very confident a public opinion poll of straight men would confirm that.  And we know why they wouldn't date a transwoman and it has to do with biology, and no amount of artificial hormones or plastic surgery can change that because biological sex is not changeable via those methods.

Ah yes, men are famously attracted to women because they can sense their chromosomes and not because they have nice knockers. Give your balls a tug.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 15, 2023, 10:03:56 am
Nor should we go out of our way to use science, or any other framework, to interfere with other people who are trying to pursue their own happiness and their own truth.

When we talk about rights accommodation, some people may give up some ideas or some boundaries in order to afford happiness to others.

I don't believe that it's up to people to protect their rights at all costs.

We have no right to impose our "truth" on others.

One may come out of the womb gay or believing one is in the wrong body but that doesn't change the body we arrived in. I don't question the reasons or validity because I am not qualified. However, when we resort to things like surgery and hormone therapy that is not a natural state, it is a human invention. That's OK too on its own but not when it is used to engineer ourselves to give an advantage over others. If a straight or gay athlete did it, they would be banned from their sport.

I think that sometimes in our efforts to bend over backwards to be inclusive, we don't ask some questions we really should be asking.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 15, 2023, 10:26:20 am
At least three.

Phew...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2023, 10:33:11 am
1. We have no right to impose our "truth" on others.

2. One may come out of the womb gay or believing one is in the wrong body but that doesn't change the body we arrived in.

3. I don't question the reasons or validity because I am not qualified. However, when we resort to things like surgery and hormone therapy that is not a natural state, it is a human invention.

4. That's OK too on its own but not when it is used to engineer ourselves to give an advantage over others. If a straight or gay athlete did it, they would be banned from their sport.

I think that sometimes in our efforts to bend over backwards to be inclusive, we don't ask some questions we really should be asking.
1. This is an unfalsifiable sentence unless you are more clear about "imposing" "truth" etc.  I can come up with many ways in which a "truth" I don't agree with is imposed on me.

2. Is your mind part of your body ?  If so, then definitely there is some room for nuance there.

3. Any attempt to lay down a principle will just lend you in a definition-laden minefield.  I can just fire back all the ambiguity back to you in quotes forever: "surgery" "therapy" "natural" "invention".  One thing that I know for sure is an invention is human culture, which ostensibly began with language.  If you decide to call your hand your "burrito" and it makes you happy for me to also call it that, then I will happily do so while smiling and shaking your burrito until you smile too.

4. If a straight or gay athlete did what ?  Pretended to be gay or straight ?  And has anybody ever in their life heard of someone changing their gender medically in order to win a medal in another sport ?  I mean as the primary reason ?  What is the ostensible motivation there ?  Fame ?  Money ?  Getting death threats and getting all that lucrative women's archery sponsorship money ?

I submit that for the most part these things will be worked out, that the issue is blown up beyond its importance, and that we should be individually trying for empathy rather than stoking fights just because we can.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 15, 2023, 03:12:15 pm
1. This is an unfalsifiable sentence unless you are more clear about "imposing" "truth" etc.  I can come up with many ways in which a "truth" I don't agree with is imposed on me.

2. Is your mind part of your body ?  If so, then definitely there is some room for nuance there.

3. Any attempt to lay down a principle will just lend you in a definition-laden minefield.  I can just fire back all the ambiguity back to you in quotes forever: "surgery" "therapy" "natural" "invention".  One thing that I know for sure is an invention is human culture, which ostensibly began with language.  If you decide to call your hand your "burrito" and it makes you happy for me to also call it that, then I will happily do so while smiling and shaking your burrito until you smile too.

4. If a straight or gay athlete did what ?  Pretended to be gay or straight ?  And has anybody ever in their life heard of someone changing their gender medically in order to win a medal in another sport ?  I mean as the primary reason ?  What is the ostensible motivation there ?  Fame ?  Money ?  Getting death threats and getting all that lucrative women's archery sponsorship money ?

I submit that for the most part these things will be worked out, that the issue is blown up beyond its importance, and that we should be individually trying for empathy rather than stoking fights just because we can.


1. Just because you decide to identify as something doesn't make it a truth except to you.

2. The mind is part of your body. So what? Just because you get an organ transplant from a woman, doesn't make you a woman.

3. We are in a definition minefield. It became that way when we allowed men to compete in women's sport based on how they define themselves.

4. If we legislate maximum testosterone levels for trans athletes, why shouldn't women athletes be able to artificially boost their levels to the same limit if they are lower? Why should they have to in order to be competitive in their own sports?

I don't know if anyone has and neither do you but if it gives them an advantage, it doesn't matter why they did it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2023, 04:23:11 pm

1. Just because you decide to identify as something doesn't make it a truth except to you.

2. The mind is part of your body. So what? Just because you get an organ transplant from a woman, doesn't make you a woman.

3. We are in a definition minefield. It became that way when we allowed men to compete in women's sport based on how they define themselves.

4. If we legislate maximum testosterone levels for trans athletes, why shouldn't women athletes be able to artificially boost their levels to the same limit if they are lower? Why should they have to in order to be competitive in their own sports?

5. I don't know if anyone has and neither do you but if it gives them an advantage, it doesn't matter why they did it.
1. Okay, this is an improvement on the last statement. However it's also kind of meaningless but okay.
2. If you were born, feeling like a woman in your brain, aren't you somewhat of a woman?
3. Okay, so we will just forget about those four words you used as well then.
4. Instead of answering my questions you asked new ones.
5. Okay, this is also another improvement on your previous statement.

When I say improvement, I mean it's a lot more clear where you stand and what your issue is.

You didn't respond to my summary paragraph at the bottom, so I would assume you're okay with it then?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 15, 2023, 04:39:04 pm
1. Okay, this is an improvement on the last statement. However it's also kind of meaningless but okay.
2. If you were born, feeling like a woman in your brain, aren't you somewhat of a woman?
3. Okay, so we will just forget about those four words you used as well then.
4. Instead of answering my questions you asked new ones.
5. Okay, this is also another improvement on your previous statement.

When I say improvement, I mean it's a lot more clear where you stand and what your issue is.

You didn't respond to my summary paragraph at the bottom, so I would assume you're okay with it then?

1 Not meaningless at all
2: No it doesn't when you are talking about physiology and how it applies to sport.
3: What four words?
4: I answered your questions, not my problem if you didn't like the answers. Those are questions you should also be asking.
5: Improvement on what? I have been totally consistent in my views.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2023, 05:53:11 pm
1 Not meaningless at all
2: No it doesn't when you are talking about physiology and how it applies to sport.
3: What four words?
4: I answered your questions, not my problem if you didn't like the answers. Those are questions you should also be asking.
5: Improvement on what? I have been totally consistent in my views.
1. Ok, yes, I take it back.  It's not meaningless but it's not helpful.  Everyone lives in a subjective truth of their own. Perceptions and Conclusions.  Nobody is mandating you to believe anything.
2. You're changing the original statement again, and I agree with your restatement.
3. Surgery, therapy, natural, invention.
4. Last time: "if straight or gay athlete did what ?  Pretended to be gay or straight ?  And has anybody ever in their life heard of someone changing their gender medically in order to win a medal in another sport ?  I mean as the primary reason ?  What is the ostensible motivation there ?  Fame ?  Money ?  Getting death threats and getting all that lucrative women's archery sponsorship money ?"

5. On the previous unclear statement.  But you restated, I think, when you said that testosterone levels should be legislated.  That's clear.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 15, 2023, 06:10:35 pm
1. Nor should we go out of our way to use science, or any other framework, to interfere with other people who are trying to pursue their own happiness and their own truth.

When we talk about rights accommodation, some people may give up some ideas or some boundaries in order to afford happiness to others.

I don't believe that it's up to people to protect their rights at all costs.

1.  Yes we should.  We should be dealing in realities, facts, science, especially when the rights of 2 groups are in conflict.  "Their own truth" is not "the truth" if it's based on verifiable falsehoods.  I'm not going to support people LYING to themselves in order to protect their feelings.   That's not helpful, it's abuse.  These aren't small children who believe in Santa Claus, these are adults.  And what about "the truth" for the cis women they compete with?  Why do trans rights trump their rights?  Just because they are the most victimized group?  Basic justice and fairness should trump someone's "own truth".

I have a progressive teacher friend who says they have a student in their school who literally thinks they are a cat and will go under their desk sometimes and meow.   They say the teachers are told to just let them do their thing and meow.  Sounds ridiculous to me, and i'm no psychologist so maybe it's ok for a while for a 6 year old.  But are we as a society going to pretend someone is a cat when they're an adult?  In the workplace?  Are you going to go along with that to "spare their feelings" Michael because  it's "their truth"?  Sometimes people need to hear the truth even if it hurts because they need to deal in reality instead of fantasy and grow up like an adult.  This thinking of yours & other progressives has some good intentions, based on compassion, but it is actually a form of abusive.  Compassion is not the cure for all issues, it's an extreme and dangerous way to run society.  I can't imagine any psychologist worth their salt would support it, only well-meaning folks afraid to offend.

2.  What about the rights of cis women?  Biological men in sports seems like an unreasonable accommodation for them.  Corrupting their sport and having biological men with their arms up in celebration for beating cis women is pretty ridiculous and condescending.

Any athlete deciding to inject hormones into themselves needs to be reasonable enough to understand that there may be some issues for them in sports.  Create a new category for trans people on hormones and regulate the hormone levels if need be.  They don't let people in wheelchairs compete against able-bodied distance runners in the Olympics just to be inclusive, and they wouldn't patronize them by crapping if they did and would obviously win.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 15, 2023, 07:49:41 pm
1. Ok, yes, I take it back.  It's not meaningless but it's not helpful.  Everyone lives ina subjective truth of their own. Perceptions and Conclusions.  Nobody is mandating you to believe anything.
2. You're changing the original statement again, and I agree with your restatement.
3. Surgery, therapy, natural, invention.
4. Last time: "if straight or gay athlete did what ?  Pretended to be gay or straight ?  And has anybody ever in their life heard of someone changing their gender medically in order to win a medal in another sport ?  I mean as the primary reason ?  What is the ostensible motivation there ?  Fame ?  Money ?  Getting death threats and getting all that lucrative women's archery sponsorship money ?"

5. On the previous unclear statement.  But you restated, I think, when you said that testosterone levels should be legislated.  That's clear.

1: It is if you are a man who wants to compete against women in a woman's sport. Your physiology counts, not your perception of yourself.
2: What did I change?
3: Surgery, chemical and hormonal therapies are as natural as the device you are posting this on.
4: If a straight or gay athlete tried to artificially adjust their testosterone levels with the use of hormones or anything else they would be accused of doping and banned.         They have been banned for as little as storing their own blood and using it to increase red cell counts just before an event. 

Maximum testosterone levels are legislated by different sporting agencies. If trans athletes can artificially manipulate their levels, why can't all athletes?

Is that clear enough for you?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2023, 07:59:20 pm
1.  Yes we should. 

2. We should be dealing in realities, facts, science, especially when the rights of 2 groups are in conflict. 

3. "Their own truth" is not "the truth" if it's based on verifiable falsehoods.  I'm not going to support people LYING to themselves in order to protect their feelings.   

4.  Why do trans rights trump their rights? 

5.   I have a progressive teacher friend who says they have a student in their school who literally thinks they are a cat and will go under their desk sometimes and meow.   They say the teachers are told to just let them do their thing and meow.  Sounds ridiculous to me, and i'm no psychologist so maybe it's ok for a while for a 6 year old.  But are we as a society going to pretend someone is a cat when they're an adult?  In the workplace?  Are you going to go along with that to "spare their feelings" Michael because  it's "their truth"? 

6. Sometimes people need to hear the truth even if it hurts because they need to deal in reality instead of fantasy and grow up like an adult. 

7. This thinking of yours & other progressives has some good intentions, based on compassion, but it is actually a form of abusive.  Compassion is not the cure for all issues, it's an extreme and dangerous way to run society.  I can't imagine any psychologist worth their salt would support it, only well-meaning folks afraid to offend.

8.  What about the rights of cis women?  Biological men in sports seems like an unreasonable accommodation for them.  Corrupting their sport and having biological men with their arms up in celebration for beating cis women is pretty ridiculous and condescending.

 

1. I said we shouldn't "go out of our way".  You're saying we should ?  Why ?  Why should we go out of our way to make people less happy ?
2. We resolve these conflicts through politics not by claiming that the facts are on our side and refusing to discuss.  If you haven't noticed, both sides in matters like this claim "the facts".
3. If you think that you matter honesty above all other things in life then you're either delusional or friendless.  "If you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all" is a maxim for a reason.  We have established a social norm, of a sorts, that some people think of themselves as "women" that "woman" is, to a degree at least, a social construct and that we will allow transgenderism as a concept  and protect the rights of such people etc. etc.  Because this is a very new idea, I am very accepting of people who can't accept it however I'm not accepting of unnecessary rudeness.  Others are even less accepting than me, and they will ostracize you if you don't accept such people openly.  That's the spectrum of attitudes that you might encounter.  Behave as you like.
4. Trump their rights how ?  By declaring themselves women ?  If you don't believe them then - on that basis alone - it seems like no rights are trumped.  If you are talking about specific areas of public life then, yes, there are going to be trade offs.  Surely you are ok with some of these, no ?   I firmly believe these things will be worked out, and it seems to be happening.
5. Sorry  - you DO realize that this cat thing has surfaced all over the world - Iowa, UK, Alberta and Ottawa also I've heard - and been debunked right ?  I recommend you not cite that one in serious conversation.
6. The workplace has already moved towards accepting trans folks, in line with the legal system too.  How exactly to you expect your opposition to the concept to play out in the public sphere ?  Do you think that legislation will be rolled back ?  If a fat person thinks they're beautiful do you interrupt them and say "No, I'm sorry but you are actually unattractive".  What do you think your social reality is in such a situation, with regards to how people would react to that ?  I'm not casting aspersions I'm just asking.
7.  Are you saying that being transgender prolongs mental illness or plays into a delusion ?  How many trans folks do you know ?  The ones I know seem to have had the opposite happen.  They seem better adjusted and happier.  From what I've read (and I haven't spent a ton of time on it, admittedly) it's a cure for a problem, not a problem itself.
8.  I've said many times that I expect the stakeholders in those cases to work it out. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 15, 2023, 08:06:09 pm
1: It is if you are a man who wants to compete against women in a woman's sport. Your physiology counts, not your perception of yourself.
2: What did I change?
3: Surgery, chemical and hormonal therapies are as natural as the device you are posting this on.
4: If a straight or gay athlete tried to artificially adjust their testosterone levels with the use of hormones or anything else they would be accused of doping and banned.         They have been banned for as little as storing their own blood and using it to increase red cell counts just before an event. 
Maximum testosterone levels are legislated by different sporting agencies. If trans athletes can artificially manipulate their levels, why can't all athletes?

Is that clear enough for you?
1. No.  The statement stands.  Your reality is yours and yours alone.  Otherwise everyone would defer to you.  Is there objective reality ?  Ultimately, there is, but as I said in another post both sides will claim the facts so it's down to politics to work out the details.
2. You first made a general statement that talked about the "body" you're born in then added the part about it being relevant to sports.  I agree with the addition.
3. So we should ban "unnatural" things ?  Like this computer ?  My point is that you're trying to build a principled responses to transgenderism that presumably would discredit it or categorize it as something to be avoided.  But if you use the terms you're talking about, many things would end up with the same category.  Like I said before, why haven't heard about breast implants as a concern ?  Who decides if these things are ok or not ?  It's a quagmire my friend.
4. I saw that's where you ended up with that and I understand the clarification.  I support those things being taken into account.  I don't think it warrants the furor though.  And, as my discussion with kimmy has revealed to me, there are separate furors in separate public spheres.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 15, 2023, 09:18:22 pm
1. No.  The statement stands.  Your reality is yours and yours alone.  Otherwise everyone would defer to you.  Is there objective reality ?  Ultimately, there is, but as I said in another post both sides will claim the facts so it's down to politics to work out the details.
2. You first made a general statement that talked about the "body" you're born in then added the part about it being relevant to sports.  I agree with the addition.
3. So we should ban "unnatural" things ?  Like this computer ?  My point is that you're trying to build a principled responses to transgenderism that presumably would discredit it or categorize it as something to be avoided.  But if you use the terms you're talking about, many things would end up with the same category.  Like I said before, why haven't heard about breast implants as a concern ?  Who decides if these things are ok or not ?  It's a quagmire my friend.
4. I saw that's where you ended up with that and I understand the clarification.  I support those things being taken into account.  I don't think it warrants the furor though.  And, as my discussion with kimmy has revealed to me, there are separate furors in separate public spheres.


1: Reality is reality and the bottom line is guys should not be telling women who should be allowed in their sports or their washrooms.
2: My comments have always been related to sports, I don't care how people identify.
3: No, you are maintaining engineered humans are the same thing. They shouldn't be banned, they should be competing in their own category, not as women.
4: You are a guy, it doesn't affect you.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on December 15, 2023, 10:21:05 pm
Do you think men's tongues are barbed like cats' or that you'd be able to tell the difference?

I read this post in an Uber on my way to Cirque du Soleil. I laughed so hard in the car and then throughout the show I kept remembering the cat tongue and needed to hold back chuckles.🤣🤣
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 15, 2023, 11:28:34 pm
1. I said we shouldn't "go out of our way".  You're saying we should ?  Why ?  Why should we go out of our way to make people less happy ?
2. We resolve these conflicts through politics not by claiming that the facts are on our side and refusing to discuss.  If you haven't noticed, both sides in matters like this claim "the facts".
3. If you think that you matter honesty above all other things in life then you're either delusional or friendless.  "If you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all" is a maxim for a reason.  We have established a social norm, of a sorts, that some people think of themselves as "women" that "woman" is, to a degree at least, a social construct and that we will allow transgenderism as a concept  and protect the rights of such people etc. etc.  Because this is a very new idea, I am very accepting of people who can't accept it however I'm not accepting of unnecessary rudeness.  Others are even less accepting than me, and they will ostracize you if you don't accept such people openly.  That's the spectrum of attitudes that you might encounter.  Behave as you like.
4. Trump their rights how ?  By declaring themselves women ?  If you don't believe them then - on that basis alone - it seems like no rights are trumped.  If you are talking about specific areas of public life then, yes, there are going to be trade offs.  Surely you are ok with some of these, no ?   I firmly believe these things will be worked out, and it seems to be happening.
5. Sorry  - you DO realize that this cat thing has surfaced all over the world - Iowa, UK, Alberta and Ottawa also I've heard - and been debunked right ?  I recommend you not cite that one in serious conversation.
6. The workplace has already moved towards accepting trans folks, in line with the legal system too.  How exactly to you expect your opposition to the concept to play out in the public sphere ?  Do you think that legislation will be rolled back ?  If a fat person thinks they're beautiful do you interrupt them and say "No, I'm sorry but you are actually unattractive".  What do you think your social reality is in such a situation, with regards to how people would react to that ?  I'm not casting aspersions I'm just asking.
7.  Are you saying that being transgender prolongs mental illness or plays into a delusion ?  How many trans folks do you know ?  The ones I know seem to have had the opposite happen.  They seem better adjusted and happier.  From what I've read (and I haven't spent a ton of time on it, admittedly) it's a cure for a problem, not a problem itself.
8.  I've said many times that I expect the stakeholders in those cases to work it out.
[/quote]

1. That's not what i'm saying.  I'm saying there's a conflict of rights in sports here.  Do transwomen have a right to compete with cis women, or do cis women have a right to compete against each other excluding biological men who are female in gender (transgender)?   You asked "Why should we go out of our way to make people less happy ?".  If trans people can compete with cis women then many cis women will be less happy.  If trans women can't compete with cis women then trans women will be less happy.  So whose rights triumph here?  IMO it should be based on science/biology as a measure of fairness in sports, as it always is.

2.  The facts that win out should be the ones that are actually true, or the most true.  This is what happens in a courtroom.  It's not based on politics or feelings.  Lady Justice is blind and weighs all arguments to determine a decision.  Whether determined by a reading of the facts or by majority opinion, I'm confident my position will win out.  The way it loses is through political correctness by a deciding minority, which is typically based on a suppression of truth to spare feelings.

https://i0.wp.com/blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/shutterstock_1420924517-scaled-e1634670981407.jpg?resize=750%2C410&ssl=1

3.  If your friend was an alcoholic and didn't think they had a problem are you saying you would live by the maxim "If you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all" and act as an enabler rather than confronting your friend with the truth, even if it upsets them and makes for an uncomfortable interaction?  That doesn't make for a very good friend and is not helpful, but is in fact harmful.

4.  See answer #1.

5.  My friend is not a liar, there's a student in their school that believes they're a cat sometimes.

6.  Beauty is subjective and based on personal preference/opinion.  A better example is if an obese person says that being fat is healthy are you going to go along with this delusion when science says otherwise?  Are you going to solve this with "politics" or instead rely on basic facts of biology and science?  In a social setting with casual friends i might stay quiet because I don't care enough to start a fight, but if it's a good friend saying this I will not stay quiet.  I'm not going to spare their feelings when their health is at risk just because the truth will hurt their feelings but ultimately be the right decision.  I've actually said this to a friend, it started a massive fight, but they were having serious health problems and it needed to be said.

7.  I have no issue with people (including trans) wanting to express themselves however they want, yes this is healthy and I support it.  But if a transwomen believes that they're the same biologically as a cis woman this is simply factually incorrect that can be very easily rejected with basic science/biology.  Those transwomen who believe they're biologically female are indeed delusional.  I don't say that to offend anyone, it just needs to be said.  If they want to appear as female as possible through hormones and surgery for cosmetic reasons because it makes them happy and more socially accepted etc that's fine, but it doesn't make them biologically female.  C'est ne pas une pipe.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 16, 2023, 05:34:58 am

1: Reality is reality and the bottom line is guys should not be telling women who should be allowed in their sports or their washrooms.
2: My comments have always been related to sports, I don't care how people identify.
3: No, you are maintaining engineered humans are the same thing. They shouldn't be banned, they should be competing in their own category, not as women.
4: You are a guy, it doesn't affect you.
1. Humans change reality all the time.  Why ?  Because we want to.  The definition of "marriage" for example always meant a man and a woman joining in wedlock.  We changed that because enough people wanted to.  We still have a way to identify woman "born as women", "females", vs "trans women" if we need to.  The term "woman" has now ... uh ... transitioned you could say.
2. Ok
3. I'll take it back to your original statement about "engineered" humans as you call it.  It had nothing to do with sports: "However, when we resort to things like surgery and hormone therapy that is not a natural state, it is a human invention." Your opinion on sports is a clarification on how you feel vs general statements on the validity of trans people.
4. Back at you.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 16, 2023, 06:06:23 am

1. That's not what i'm saying. 

2. I'm saying there's a conflict of rights in sports here.  Do transwomen have a right to compete with cis women, or do cis women have a right to compete against each other excluding biological men who are female in gender (transgender)?   You asked "Why should we go out of our way to make people less happy ?".  If trans people can compete with cis women then many cis women will be less happy.  If trans women can't compete with cis women then trans women will be less happy.  So whose rights triumph here?  IMO it should be based on science/biology as a measure of fairness in sports, as it always is.

3.  The facts that win out should be the ones that are actually true, or the most true.  This is what happens in a courtroom.  It's not based on politics or feelings.  Lady Justice is blind and weighs all arguments to determine a decision.  Whether determined by a reading of the facts or by majority opinion, I'm confident my position will win out.  The way it loses is through political correctness by a deciding minority, which is typically based on a suppression of truth to spare feelings.

https://i0.wp.com/blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/shutterstock_1420924517-scaled-e1634670981407.jpg?resize=750%2C410&ssl=1

4.  If your friend was an alcoholic and didn't think they had a problem are you saying you would live by the maxim "If you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all" and act as an enabler rather than confronting your friend with the truth, even if it upsets them and makes for an uncomfortable interaction?  That doesn't make for a very good friend and is not helpful, but is in fact harmful.

5.  My friend is not a liar, there's a student in their school that believes they're a cat sometimes.

6.  Beauty is subjective and based on personal preference/opinion.  A better example is if an obese person says that being fat is healthy are you going to go along with this delusion when science says otherwise?  Are you going to solve this with "politics" or instead rely on basic facts of biology and science?  In a social setting with casual friends i might stay quiet because I don't care enough to start a fight, but if it's a good friend saying this I will not stay quiet.  I'm not going to spare their feelings when their health is at risk just because the truth will hurt their feelings but ultimately be the right decision.  I've actually said this to a friend, it started a massive fight, but they were having serious health problems and it needed to be said.

7.  I have no issue with people (including trans) wanting to express themselves however they want, yes this is healthy and I support it. 

8.  But if a transwomen believes that they're the same biologically as a cis woman this is simply factually incorrect that can be very easily rejected with basic science/biology.  Those transwomen who believe they're biologically female are indeed delusional.  I don't say that to offend anyone, it just needs to be said.  If they want to appear as female as possible through hormones and surgery for cosmetic reasons because it makes them happy and more socially accepted etc that's fine, but it doesn't make them biologically female.  C'est ne pas une pipe.

1. Then you're pivoting on my point to make a new one.  Here's the point I made and your response:

Me: "Nor should we go out of our way to use science, or any other framework, to interfere with other people who are trying to pursue their own happiness and their own truth."

My statement doesn't talk about other peoples' rights, it's a statement that we should accommodate folks who are persuing happiness as a value on its own.  Nothing about sports there.

You: "Yes we should. "

You jumped ahead to sports where I wasn't there yet.  I was establishing a common value in the discussion before we got to the next stop on the line.

2. Yes, now we're at the next stop on the line.  My question are what is the political landscape that would lead to a workable decision on that ?  What is the public sphere ?  One thing I do know is that it doesn't include me beyond a certain point.  And my knowledge of our general problems with the public sphere lead me to the conclusion that these stories are brought to an audience that has nothing to do with the issue, for entertainment reasons.

3. Well, anger is a feeling.  Injustice triggers anger, that's part of it.  I get really confused when people get angry that feelings are being considered.  Kid Rock is not a pious weigher of facts, he's an angry guy who shoots at beer cans.  And like it or not he's part of the discussion too.  (I don't like it.)

4. Of course not but your analogy is bad.  Are you saying Transgenderism is a disease or a flaw ?  I haven't read down so you may have answered that below.

5. Ask again.  In *their* classroom ?  And the principle and parents are aware and nothing is done ?  It's a continuous situation and not just a kid who meowed once ?  Please be aware that I spoke to a person on Facebook who made the identical claim to yours.  That the claim was made with regards to those 4 disparate geographic areas with identical details.  Don't you feel there's something suspicious of a case like that ?  That a kid who clearly has mental problems is just being accepted by educators and psychologists ?  Whereas the 'trans kid' issue is given reams of consideration, policy, consultation ?  Do you at least agree that the story makes administrators, educators, psychologists look ridiculously negligent ?  And if so, do you agree that that doesn't gibe with the processes that are clearly followed to assess kids for other psychological attributes ?

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/misinformation/urban-myth-litter-boxes-schools-became-gop-talking-point-rcna51439

6. I have had people tell me that drinking every day is good for you.  No, that's not universally accepted.  Do I dispute it ?  Why would I deny an alcoholic the right to drink or make them feel bad about their addiction ?   That said, you have got me to use an analogy for "unhealthy" behaviour which I have explained doesn't apply to transgenderism.

7. If you think it's healthy why do you use analogies to unhealthy behavior ?  If it's healthy then presumably adolescents need to pursue transition also.

8. Ok well you said it.  I would say you are saying something obvious but if you need to say it, you have sait it.  Trans women don't have a uterus and there are many other differences.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 16, 2023, 09:01:12 am
1. Humans change reality all the time.  Why ?  Because we want to.  The definition of "marriage" for example always meant a man and a woman joining in wedlock.  We changed that because enough people wanted to.  We still have a way to identify woman "born as women", "females", vs "trans women" if we need to.  The term "woman" has now ... uh ... transitioned you could say.
2. Ok
3. I'll take it back to your original statement about "engineered" humans as you call it.  It had nothing to do with sports: "However, when we resort to things like surgery and hormone therapy that is not a natural state, it is a human invention." Your opinion on sports is a clarification on how you feel vs general statements on the validity of trans people.
4. Back at you.
MH, why are you so adamant about biological males competing in women sports, taking women’s scholarships etc?  Why are you so adamant on these topics?  There are so many more important issues to be focused on.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 16, 2023, 09:21:26 am

1: Reality is reality and the bottom line is guys should not be telling women who should be allowed in their sports or their washrooms.
2: My comments have always been related to sports, I don't care how people identify.
3: No, you are maintaining engineered humans are the same thing. They shouldn't be banned, they should be competing in their own category, not as women.
4: You are a guy, it doesn't affect you.
1. From your statement, the bottom line is opinion not facts.
2.
MH, why are you so adamant about biological males competing in women sports, taking women’s scholarships etc?  Why are you so adamant on these topics?  There are so many more important issues to be focused on.

I'm responding, mostly to aspects of the public sphere which are more important than individual rights and those details.

Most people can't separate content from container, so they morph the discussion into questions about testosterone and so forth. Forth. Sometime to time I answer those questions. I would be glad if we didn't talk about it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 16, 2023, 09:25:52 am
Also, shady, you are misrepresenting what I said about trans women competing in sports.

It's quite stunning how often this happens with me. Someone should really study it.

I think when I say people can work it out, that isn't taking a strong position one way or the other.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2023, 11:22:07 am
1. Humans change reality all the time.  Why ?  Because we want to.  The definition of "marriage" for example always meant a man and a woman joining in wedlock.  We changed that because enough people wanted to.  We still have a way to identify woman "born as women", "females", vs "trans women" if we need to.  The term "woman" has now ... uh ... transitioned you could say.
2. Ok
3. I'll take it back to your original statement about "engineered" humans as you call it.  It had nothing to do with sports: "However, when we resort to things like surgery and hormone therapy that is not a natural state, it is a human invention." Your opinion on sports is a clarification on how you feel vs general statements on the validity of trans people.
4. Back at you.

Sex change is engineering the human body. If trans people can engineer themselves to compete in a particular sport, why can't cis people? Why should they have to in order to accommodate or be competitive with trans people in their own sport?

My only issue is with sports, always has been. If you read all my posts you find that to be the case.

My own feeling is that there should be a separate classification in individual sports. We do it all the time in things like marathons and 10K races. We have classifications for things like men, women, wheel chairs and different age groups. You compete against those in your classification. There is no reason not to add one for trans athletes.

That's just my opinion but ultimately the issue of trans athletes in women's sport should be decided by women and women alone.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 16, 2023, 11:25:07 am
Also, shady, you are misrepresenting what I said about trans women competing in sports.

It's quite stunning how often this happens with me. Someone should really study it.

I think when I say people can work it out, that isn't taking a strong position one way or the other.

If you haven't had arguments made up for you, you haven't been on an internet forum.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 16, 2023, 11:43:14 am
See every attempt at debating shady has ever made.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 16, 2023, 11:51:45 am
1. Sex change is engineering the human body. If trans people can engineer themselves to compete in a particular sport, why can't cis people? Why should they have to in order to accommodate or be competitive with trans people in their own sport?

2. My only issue is with sports, always has been. If you read all my posts you find that to be the case.

3. My own feeling is that there should be a separate classification in individual sports. We do it all the time in things like marathons and 10K races. We have classifications for things like men, women, wheel chairs and different age groups. You compete against those in your classification. There is no reason not to add one for trans athletes.

That's just my opinion but ultimately the issue of trans athletes in women's sport should be decided by women and women alone.
1. Again, I'm not going to change your opinion or argue much on that.  I believe that the competitive bodies will work it out with players.
2. Yes, that's why I accept your points when you make them about sports vs. general principles.
3. Ok
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 16, 2023, 05:06:14 pm
I was genuinely surprised once when a friend said he wouldn't date a trans woman. I don't get it, I couldn't care less, I'd date a trans man if the vibe was right.

The vast majority of heterosexual men will not date a transgender male. This is how life works, Toots.  For one thing, the tranny will not have proper female sexual organs, and this leads to problems with sexual relations.  They will also have male physical features, no matter what amount of female hormones they take. Finally, transgenders do not have the ability to reproduce.

The fact that you are "genuinely surprised" leads me to believe you are out of touch with the realities of how society operates, and also basic human anatomy.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 16, 2023, 05:16:59 pm
New Research Shows a Vast Majority of Cis People Won't Date Trans People


Researchers Karen Blair and Rhea Hoskin (2019) addressed the dating preferences of nearly a thousand online participants with the question, “Who would you consider dating?” Options were cisgender man, cisgender woman, trans man, trans woman, and gender queertrans. The participants were predominantly young adults, most of whom were straight, cisgender individuals (their current gender identity matches the gender they were assigned at birth) residing in Canada and the United States.

Extremely few—less than 3 percent—of straight men and women would consider dating a trans individual, regardless of whether that person matched their straight sexual orientation (a transman born female for straight men; a transwoman born male for straight women) or their gender preference (a transwoman for straight men; a transman for straight women). Unfortunately, participants were not explicitly asked about their reasons for choosing a dating partner.

Gay men were more willing than straight men (12 percent vs. 3 percent) and lesbian women were more willing than straight women (29 percent vs. 2 percent) to date a trans person. Overall, gay men were far more likely than lesbians to exclude individuals based on their trans status. Both gays and lesbians were, however, considerably more likely to date a trans person consistent with their preferred gender presentation rather than their preferred genitalia (transmen for gays, transwomen for lesbians).


https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/sex-sexuality-and-romance/202104/will-straight-men-and-women-date-trans-person
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 16, 2023, 06:55:07 pm
If your friend isn’t homosexual, then I doubt he’d want to date a trans man, ie biological male.

This should be an accepted fact, as it is true.

However, in the past decade, the Transgender community and their supporters somehow think it is discriminatory for a Heterosexual man to reject them. So they are labelled "Transphobes." It's political correctness bordering on insanity.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 17, 2023, 10:21:40 am
This should be an accepted fact, as it is true.

However, in the past decade, the Transgender community and their supporters somehow think it is discriminatory for a Heterosexual man to reject them. So they are labelled "Transphobes." It's political correctness bordering on insanity.

This is more made up nonsense. Nice new user name btw: obsessed much?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 17, 2023, 11:33:39 pm
This is more made up nonsense. Nice new user name btw: obsessed much?

I love you more than words can say, my sweet Prince.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 18, 2023, 02:21:42 am
1. Then you're pivoting on my point to make a new one.  Here's the point I made and your response:

Me: "Nor should we go out of our way to use science, or any other framework, to interfere with other people who are trying to pursue their own happiness and their own truth."

My statement doesn't talk about other peoples' rights, it's a statement that we should accommodate folks who are persuing happiness as a value on its own.  Nothing about sports there.

You: "Yes we should. "

You jumped ahead to sports where I wasn't there yet.  I was establishing a common value in the discussion before we got to the next stop on the line.

2. Yes, now we're at the next stop on the line.  My question are what is the political landscape that would lead to a workable decision on that ?  What is the public sphere ?  One thing I do know is that it doesn't include me beyond a certain point.  And my knowledge of our general problems with the public sphere lead me to the conclusion that these stories are brought to an audience that has nothing to do with the issue, for entertainment reasons.

3. Well, anger is a feeling.  Injustice triggers anger, that's part of it.  I get really confused when people get angry that feelings are being considered.  Kid Rock is not a pious weigher of facts, he's an angry guy who shoots at beer cans.  And like it or not he's part of the discussion too.  (I don't like it.)

4. Of course not but your analogy is bad.  Are you saying Transgenderism is a disease or a flaw ?  I haven't read down so you may have answered that below.

5. Ask again.  In *their* classroom ?  And the principle and parents are aware and nothing is done ?  It's a continuous situation and not just a kid who meowed once ?  Please be aware that I spoke to a person on Facebook who made the identical claim to yours.  That the claim was made with regards to those 4 disparate geographic areas with identical details.  Don't you feel there's something suspicious of a case like that ?  That a kid who clearly has mental problems is just being accepted by educators and psychologists ?  Whereas the 'trans kid' issue is given reams of consideration, policy, consultation ?  Do you at least agree that the story makes administrators, educators, psychologists look ridiculously negligent ?  And if so, do you agree that that doesn't gibe with the processes that are clearly followed to assess kids for other psychological attributes ?

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/misinformation/urban-myth-litter-boxes-schools-became-gop-talking-point-rcna51439

6. I have had people tell me that drinking every day is good for you.  No, that's not universally accepted.  Do I dispute it ?  Why would I deny an alcoholic the right to drink or make them feel bad about their addiction ?   That said, you have got me to use an analogy for "unhealthy" behaviour which I have explained doesn't apply to transgenderism.

7. If you think it's healthy why do you use analogies to unhealthy behavior ?  If it's healthy then presumably adolescents need to pursue transition also.

8. Ok well you said it.  I would say you are saying something obvious but if you need to say it, you have sait it.  Trans women don't have a uterus and there are many other differences.

1.  I'm not sure I accept your value as it's written, but even if we accept your common value, you're arguing to accommodate happiness for trans people, but the result of that is also creating unhappiness for many cis women because they can no longer compete in sports on a level playing field with many transwomen who have superior biology for athletics.  That means you're not following your own common value.  Trans people and their happiness matters, but if it's at the expense of cis women then we have ourselves the problem we're currently dealing with.

2.  You're free to bow out of the debate at some point if you wish.  I think I'm still able to have an opinion.  The holocaust didn't personally affect me, but i'm still able to have an opinion on it.

3.  We have trans people's feelings, and cis women's feelings both being affected.  Whose feelings are more important?  The answer is neither, they are equally important.  But for some reason you and black dog and others believe they aren't as important, which makes people like kimmy upset because they feel they're being ignored.  If the feelings of both groups are equal, we have to find another way to solve the issue.  I propose we use logic and reason to come up with the most fair solution for everyone, while trying to be inclusive where we can, in order to produce the most happiness and fairness for everyone involved.

4. No.  I'm saying if you're a transwoman and you believe you're no different biologically to a cis women and therefore should be treated exactly the same in all circumstances then you're being illlogical and unreasonable, and need to be told this.  I don't think as a society we should be enabling and reinforcing their incorrect beliefs in order to shield their feelings, even though we all should have compassion for their difficult situation.  In the end, I think they'll be better off if they accept the truth rather than remaining in a kind of warm comforting self-lie.

5.  You can accept what I say or not.  I'm not trying to argue the existence of cat-children, that's not the point, it's a red-herring on your part.  I'm arguing that letting a grown adult who believes they are a cat-person continue to behave like a cat only because everyone is afraid to tell them they aren't a cat and risk hurting their feelings may seem compassionate but is actually not helpful to them.

6.  If your friends' life is obviously being destroyed by alcohol and they refuse to admit they have a problem and live in denial and you refuse to participate in an intervention because you don't want to make them feel bad or uncomfortable etc then you're not being a good friend, you're enabling their delusion.  I'm making a point about telling the truth to someone who needs to hear it, not comparing transgenderism to a disease like alcoholism.

To be frank, the vast majority if not all of your social views seem to be determined by what the mainstream progressive consensus is and what is least likely to "rock the boat".  Whereas I don't think "not rocking the boat" is a useful value, even if it leads to offending some or being disliked by some or even most people.  Therefore, I don't think any argument I or anyone else makes, no matter how right it is, will change your mind on this and many other topics, so this is basically a waste of my time unfortunately.  I'm not trying to offend you and I don't want to, but I need to remain consistent to my values and state what I believe is the truth at the risk of being less liked.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 18, 2023, 06:03:03 am
1.  I'm not sure I accept your value as it's written, but even if we accept your common value, you're arguing to accommodate happiness for trans people, but the result of that is also creating unhappiness for many cis women because they can no longer compete in sports on a level playing field with many transwomen who have superior biology for athletics.  That means you're not following your own common value.  Trans people and their happiness matters, but if it's at the expense of cis women then we have ourselves the problem we're currently dealing with.

2.  You're free to bow out of the debate at some point if you wish.  I think I'm still able to have an opinion.  The holocaust didn't personally affect me, but i'm still able to have an opinion on it.

3.  We have trans people's feelings, and cis women's feelings both being affected.  Whose feelings are more important?  The answer is neither, they are equally important.  But for some reason you and black dog and others believe they aren't as important, which makes people like kimmy upset because they feel they're being ignored.  If the feelings of both groups are equal, we have to find another way to solve the issue.  I propose we use logic and reason to come up with the most fair solution for everyone, while trying to be inclusive where we can, in order to produce the most happiness and fairness for everyone involved.

4. No.  I'm saying if you're a transwoman and you believe you're no different biologically to a cis women and therefore should be treated exactly the same in all circumstances then you're being illlogical and unreasonable, and need to be told this.  I don't think as a society we should be enabling and reinforcing their incorrect beliefs in order to shield their feelings, even though we all should have compassion for their difficult situation.  In the end, I think they'll be better off if they accept the truth rather than remaining in a kind of warm comforting self-lie.

5.  You can accept what I say or not.  I'm not trying to argue the existence of cat-children, that's not the point, it's a red-herring on your part.  I'm arguing that letting a grown adult who believes they are a cat-person continue to behave like a cat only because everyone is afraid to tell them they aren't a cat and risk hurting their feelings may seem compassionate but is actually not helpful to them.

6.  If your friends' life is obviously being destroyed by alcohol and they refuse to admit they have a problem and live in denial and you refuse to participate in an intervention because you don't want to make them feel bad or uncomfortable etc then you're not being a good friend, you're enabling their delusion.  I'm making a point about telling the truth to someone who needs to hear it, not comparing transgenderism to a disease like alcoholism.

7. To be frank, the vast majority if not all of your social views seem to be determined by what the mainstream progressive consensus is and what is least likely to "rock the boat".  Whereas I don't think "not rocking the boat" is a useful value, even if it leads to offending some or being disliked by some or even most people.  Therefore, I don't think any argument I or anyone else makes, no matter how right it is, will change your mind on this and many other topics, so this is basically a waste of my time unfortunately.  I'm not trying to offend you and I don't want to, but I need to remain consistent to my values and state what I believe is the truth at the risk of being less liked.
1. From your last sentence, you agree with my value.  By "go out of the way", I intend to mean cases where others' rights are not impacted beyond perceptions of the world that includes trans people. So even the change room discussion isn't included in this value.  It's a starting point for us to say "what can we do to increase happiness without having to take away rights".

Now if course many a Chud would not have them exist at all.

2. Yes, just as inclusion of Transgender people as a protected group is a discussion that affects us all.  I will leave the individual details of what that means to impacted groups for the most part.  I get pulled in by other factors, lately it's by general comments and arguments that I disagree with.  Then as the discussion continy, it's about sports after all.

3. Yes, both are important.  That's why I disagreed with the statement that facts matter over feelings.

4. But based on 1. and 3. Do we go out of our way to make them feel like they're not actually women?  It seems like we're saying that we don't.  If you're talking about considering the fact in a judicial opinion then, no, but if you don't consider them women culturally then there doesn't seem to be any point in accommodating them.

5. I'm saying that the analogy is extreme, unhelpful and probably didn't happen.

6. That only applies with the 'if'.  What about the term 'deviant'?  People used to argue that LGBTQ were deviant by definition.  You could argue that calling them that to their face is helping them to some 'truth'.  But it's going out of the way to create unhappiness.

7. Your assessments on me are interesting. But we could easily just do that on each other. What you call rocking the boat. I call facilitating coexistence and the pursuit of happiness. My take on what's happening in our public today is a lot of boat rocking for no useful purpose. Furthermore, if you talk to some people, they don't see any point in not rocking the boat. In fact, they think rocking the boat is an end in itself. They don't see any point and resolving conflicts. If you want me to join you in analyzing Michael, I would say growing up in a large or relatively large family as the oldest made me the arbiter of peace. Peace. Thankfully our grown family and grandkids are devoid of drama and possibly the happiest large group I have ever encountered. I wish this peace on society in general.

But I will point out yet again that you are ascribing to me the attributes of a pro transgender activist to a degree. If you read my words, I'm actually in the middle on this and looking for a public sphere that can talk about philosophical questions without corroding our social relations. It's quite simple.

I take from your comments that you felt that there was a chance of changing my mind on the sports question, so that I would agree with you. But I don't actually disagree, I just say that the people involved should work it out. Out. If the athletes, sponsors, families etc.decide that transgender athletes should not compete. I'm 100% okay with it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 18, 2023, 06:04:26 am
As ever, I'm using voice to text which explains the weird double words. Etc
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 18, 2023, 06:32:27 am
Martina Navratilova says transgender women are 'cheating' if they compete in women's sport

(https://i.cbc.ca/1.5023680.1550516819!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/martina-navratilova.jpg)


Martina Navratilova has claimed that allowing transgender women to compete in professional is “insane and cheating”. The legendary tennis player who came out as a lesbian in 1981, said competing against trans women who still had “biologically” male bodies made a mockery of women’s sport.

“I am happy to address a transgender woman in whatever form she prefers, but I would not be happy to compete against her. It would not be fair,” Navratilova wrote in The Sunday Times. “To put the argument at its most basic: a man can decide to be female, take hormones if required by whatever sporting organisation is concerned, win everything in sight and perhaps earn a small fortune, and then reverse his decision and go back to making babies if he so desires.

“It’s insane and it’s cheating.”

Even trans athletes who take steps to lower their hormone levels still benefit from years of development in muscle and bone density since childhood as a man, she said.

source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/martina-navratilova-transgender-women-sport-cheating-rachel-mckinnon-a8783671.html
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 18, 2023, 06:46:28 am
Sex Matters: Why Transgender Athletes Must Not Compete Against Biological Females


(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Nancy_Hogshead-Makar_at_National_Girls_and_Women_in_Sports_Day_briefing_2012_cropped.jpg/220px-Nancy_Hogshead-Makar_at_National_Girls_and_Women_in_Sports_Day_briefing_2012_cropped.jpg)

By Nancy Hogshead-Makar, a 4-time Medallist at the 1984 Olympic games

"Title IX, the federal law that prohibits sex discrimination, permits sex-segregation in sport – which means that, for the most part, men compete against men, and women compete against women. Title IX gave me a fair opportunity to win and set records, as well as access to money, accolades, and leadership opportunities.

If Congress and courts had forbidden sex-segregated sports, the way race and religious segregation is prohibited, I would have qualified for my high school team, but I’d never have been the Hall of Famer that I became. I doubt I’d have competed past high school. Now imagine if all schools were only responsible for sponsoring one sports team and they put their best students — regardless of gender — on that team. How many girls and women would make it?

For sure, millions of girls and women would lose out on the educational experience that participation in sports provides. An experience which is also linked to economic success and life-long health.

Trans women should compete with biological women, so long as they can demonstrate that they have lost their sex-linked, male-puberty advantage prior to competition in the women’s category. Lia Thomas cannot make that demonstration. While she has apparently been complying with NCAA rules requiring hormone therapy for over 2 ½ years now, she still competes with an unfair advantage. How do we know Lia Thomas’ performances aren’t fair?

The average differential in the men’s and women’s ‘A’ standard times for NCAA championship qualification is 11.41%; meaning the women’s times are 11%+ slower than the men’s qualification times. About the same differential occurs if you’re looking at almost any group of swimming records or qualification times between men and women, including regional or USA Swimming qualification times, American records, world records, NCAA records.

The gaps between men and women are generally larger in the sprints than they are in the long-distance events. So, how big is that 11% advantage in swimming times for male swimmers?

Enormous.

To put it in perspective, Olympic superstar Michael Phelps held just a .08% of an advantage over his U.S. teammate and rival Ian Crocker in the 100 butterfly in the 2004 Olympics. But Phelps held a 12.62% advantage over the women’s gold medalist, Australian Petria Thomas. Phelps’ advantage over women equates to over 150 times more than the advantage that Phelps had over his male competitors.

If he had that same 12.62% advantage over his male competitors, he would have swam 6.47 seconds faster than he did to win the gold, or a time of 44.78 seconds. Meanwhile, the gap between first and eighth in the men’s Olympic final was a tiny gap of just 1.31 seconds.

Lia Thomas, however, was not 11% slower. She was only 2.6% slower than she was pre-transition in the 200-yard freestyle, and just 5.76% slower in the 500-yard freestyle. That is NOT mitigation. It is NOT fair. I should add that it isn’t Lia’s fault.

The problem is with the NCAA’s rules that permitted Penn to keep her on their women’s team.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 18, 2023, 01:28:22 pm

I think when I say people can work it out, that isn't taking a strong position one way or the other.

"Working it out" = men taking the place of women in women's sport.  This is just the reality of the political climate today.

It is hard to see a woman training her whole life for a sport, sometimes 3-4 hours a day for years, and sacrificing so much, only for her dream to be taken by some Transgender athlete who came in 175th place in the Men's division, only to transition to female, and come in the top three in the division, depriving the biological female of a medal and possible scholarship.



Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 18, 2023, 01:44:19 pm
1. This is just the reality of the political climate today.

2. It is hard to see a woman training her whole life for a sport...
1. So move to China or Nazi Germany I guess if you hate ideas.
2. Then buy a ticket like everyone else.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 18, 2023, 01:50:57 pm
1. So move to China or Nazi Germany I guess if you hate ideas.
2. Then buy a ticket like everyone else.

lol....or America, where most states have either banned Transgender athletes or are in the process of doing so.  No need to invoke Godwin's law.

-----

House approves trans athlete ban for girls and women’s teams

WASHINGTON (AP) — Transgender athletes whose biological sex assigned at birth was male would be barred from competing on girls or women’s sports teams at federally supported schools and colleges under legislation pushed through Thursday by House Republicans checking off another high-profile item on their social agenda.

The bill approved by a 219-203 party-line vote is unlikely to advance further because the Democratic-led Senate will not support it and the White House said President Joe Biden would veto it.

Supporters said the legislation, which would put violators at risk of losing taxpayer dollars, is necessary to ensure competitive fairness. They framed the vote as supporting female athletes disadvantaged by having to compete against those whose gender identify does not match their sex assigned at birth.

source: https://apnews.com/article/congress-transgender-women-sports-ban-athletes-1c58c20cac2b191e323e4376d7949a2d

------

A huge win for Women's sport.  I don't always agree with our American neighbours, but I am 100% in favor of this bill.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 19, 2023, 06:12:20 am
Now that being on the Internet is the opposite of anonymous, it appears troll culture will have to adjust. As of today, calling someone a "groomer" just to get a reaction could have perilous legal consequences.

https://pressprogress.ca/right-wing-trolls-are-freaking-out-after-learning-they-can-get-sued-for-calling-people-groomers-on-the-internet/
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 19, 2023, 09:32:06 am
Now that being on the Internet is the opposite of anonymous, it appears troll culture will have to adjust. As of today, calling someone a "groomer" just to get a reaction could have perilous legal consequences.

https://pressprogress.ca/right-wing-trolls-are-freaking-out-after-learning-they-can-get-sued-for-calling-people-groomers-on-the-internet/
It doesn't surprise me that progressives want to try to criminalize free speech.  Is this going to apply to all things, like being called fascists?  Racists?  Etc?  What a terrible road to go down.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 19, 2023, 09:35:32 am
It doesn't surprise me that progressives want to try to criminalize free speech.  Is this going to apply to all things, like being called fascists?  Racists?  Etc?  What a terrible road to go down.

Dumbfuck Shady has never heard of slander/libel I guess.

Quote
In its decision, the court found Webster’s statements failed a basic “public interest” test since “perpetuating hurtful myths and stereotypes about vulnerable members in our society” does not represent speech anti-SLAPP rules are “intended to protect.”

“I agree with the Plaintiffs that perpetuating such stereotypes and myths about members of the 2SLGBTQI community is not public interest speech,” the decision explains. “It is not a matter about which the community has a genuine interest or genuine stake in knowing.”

“If the post merely questioned the propriety of drag storytime for children, or expressed his opinion that drag storytime is not appropriate for children, I may have been inclined to find that the matter was social commentary and public interest speech.”

The court also noted Webster appeared to have no valid defence since his statements were “not recognizable as an opinion” and there appeared to be “no factual basis for the allegation.”
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 19, 2023, 09:55:24 am
Dumbfuck Shady has never heard of slander/libel I guess.
Whatever you say you f**king groomer.  Sue me a$$hole.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 19, 2023, 10:05:08 am
Now that being on the Internet is the opposite of anonymous, it appears troll culture will have to adjust. As of today, calling someone a "groomer" just to get a reaction could have perilous legal consequences.

https://pressprogress.ca/right-wing-trolls-are-freaking-out-after-learning-they-can-get-sued-for-calling-people-groomers-on-the-internet/

Very interesting.

Of note:

1) This is not "the case" since it says "The defeat of Webster’s anti-SLAPP motion means the case can now proceed to a full trial to determine if he defamed the plaintiffs. The plaintiffs are seeking over $190,000 in damages." So it still goes to trial.
2) This was a motion aimed at dismissing the suit and it failed based on anti-SLAPP foundation.
3) The guy posted ANONYMOUSLY.  This is very significant.  It means anonymity doesn't exist on the internet and that accusing someone is equivalent to saying it IRL (In Real Life)

I thought about it and I think the actual case should find Webster guilty...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 19, 2023, 10:15:35 am
Whatever you say you f**king groomer.  Sue me a$$hole.

Spoken like someone who is broke.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 19, 2023, 10:21:10 am
It doesn't surprise me that progressives want to try to criminalize free speech.  Is this going to apply to all things, like being called fascists?  Racists?  Etc?  What a terrible road to go down.

Nothing wrong with being held accountable for what you say. Being a racist or fascist is not illegal. Accusing people of being ped-o-philes is accusing them of criminal behaviour. Cowards make these accusations anonymously because they think they can't be held accountable.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 19, 2023, 10:27:33 am
I thought about it and I think the actual case should find Webster guilty...
Of course you do, you're the ultimate free speech fascist.  There isn't a law that curtails speech that you haven't supported.  Never mind that what you think should happen would completely end internet anonymity  Also never mind that the definition of groomer is different for many people.  Criminalizing speech is the new progressivism.  How far they've fallen.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 19, 2023, 10:29:31 am
Nothing wrong with being held accountable for what you say. Being a racist or fascist is not illegal. Accusing people of being ped-o-philes is accusing them of criminal behaviour. Cowards make these accusations anonymously because they think they can't be held accountable.
As far as I know, he called them groomers.  Is there even a formal definition of that?  Regardless, this case would completely end internet anonymity.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 19, 2023, 10:33:58 am
Regardless of this all, it is pretty funny to watch actual groomers, being upset about being called groomers.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest18 on December 19, 2023, 10:34:01 am
Internet anonymity ended a long time ago already.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 19, 2023, 10:34:51 am
Now that being on the Internet is the opposite of anonymous, it appears troll culture will have to adjust. As of today, calling someone a "groomer" just to get a reaction could have perilous legal consequences.

https://pressprogress.ca/right-wing-trolls-are-freaking-out-after-learning-they-can-get-sued-for-calling-people-groomers-on-the-internet/

This is pretty dumb.  See you all in the slammer.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 19, 2023, 10:39:15 am
Regardless of this all, it is pretty funny to watch actual groomers, being upset about being called groomers.

You're a paedophile.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 19, 2023, 10:41:20 am
You're a paedophile.
I know you are but what am I?
I know you are but what am I?
I know you are but what am I?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 19, 2023, 10:42:28 am
I know you are but what am I?
I know you are but what am I?
I know you are but what am I?

Buddy only one person on this board has talked about molesting kids and it's you.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 19, 2023, 10:43:34 am
Buddy only one person on this board has talked about molesting kids and it's you.
It's just constant projection from you.  Sheesh.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 19, 2023, 10:46:30 am
Regardless of this all, it is pretty funny to watch actual groomers, being upset about being called groomers.

Case in point. You accuse people who disagree with you of being groomers while at the same time claiming to not know what groomer means.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 19, 2023, 11:00:29 am
1. Of course you do, you're the ultimate free speech fascist. 
2. There isn't a law that curtails speech that you haven't supported. 
3. Never mind that what you think should happen would completely end internet anonymity  Also never mind that the definition of groomer is different for many people. 
4. Criminalizing speech is the new progressivism.  How far they've fallen.

Libel has never been legal, you know that right ?

1. Name calling.  Ok.  I won't sue you :)
2. There's no law curtailing speech at play in this ruling.  Unless you count Webster trying to use the anti-SLAPP law unsuccessfully.
3. Well he said '****' no ?  But 'groomer' is a pretty clear accusation, I have always thought so.
4. How about clarity ?  Or is it just... I don't know... cute to IMPLY that someone is a **** when they're not.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 19, 2023, 11:06:25 am
This is pretty dumb.  See you all in the slammer.

This ruling  is about a civil suit.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 19, 2023, 11:10:15 am
If I went on TV, or printed a newsletter or even yelled in public something that is defamatory then they can sue.

So...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_defamation_law
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 19, 2023, 11:14:07 am
If I went on TV, or printed a newsletter or even yelled in public something that is defamatory then they can sue.

So...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_defamation_law
I can't wait to see the tens of millions of lawsuits that this case could ultimately lead to.  Millions and millions of anonymous people sued for calling someone racist, sexist, homophobic, etc online.  Trial lawyers are licking their chops!
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 19, 2023, 11:14:41 am
It's just constant projection from you.  Sheesh.

It's not projection when it's the literal truth. Only one person on the board has ever talked about molesting kids and it's you.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 19, 2023, 11:18:45 am
It's not projection when it's the literal truth. Only one person on the board has ever talked about molesting kids and it's you.
I know you are but what am I. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 19, 2023, 11:25:56 am
I can't wait to see the tens of millions of lawsuits that this case could ultimately lead to.  Millions and millions of anonymous people sued for calling someone racist, sexist, homophobic, etc online.  Trial lawyers are licking their chops!

Why would you sue someone for something like that ?  You would incur a lot of costs.  There is a scale to such things.

If I were to call a teacher a **** in print or online that's different from me calling you a sexist...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 19, 2023, 11:34:33 am
I can't wait to see the tens of millions of lawsuits that this case could ultimately lead to.  Millions and millions of anonymous people sued for calling someone racist, sexist, homophobic, etc online.  Trial lawyers are licking their chops!

It's amazing that the article posted about this explains why this decision wouldn't apply to other categories but you're too illiterate to read it and too stupid to understand it if you could.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 19, 2023, 02:29:48 pm
This ruling  is about a civil suit.

True.  It's still silly.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 19, 2023, 03:41:05 pm
True.  It's still silly.

It's about using SLAPP to dismiss a defamation suit.  The defendant is using it frivolously IMO
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 19, 2023, 03:46:58 pm
It's about using SLAPP to dismiss a defamation suit.  The defendant is using it frivolously IMO
The whole lawsuit is frivolous.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 19, 2023, 04:52:48 pm
It's about using SLAPP to dismiss a defamation suit.  The defendant is using it frivolously IMO

Reminds me of Jessica Yaniv.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 19, 2023, 04:58:00 pm
The whole lawsuit is frivolous.

The court disagrees!

Quote
Last week, Ontario’s Superior Court of Justice issued a decision rejecting an anti-SLAPP motion Webster filed claiming the lawsuit against him was a “gag proceeding” designed to “silence me and punish me through the improper use of the courts.”
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 19, 2023, 05:13:49 pm
Reminds me of Jessica Yaniv.

It's definitely more serious than that, both the suit and the SLAPP motion.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on December 19, 2023, 05:23:16 pm
Reminds me of Jessica Yaniv.

How, specifically?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 19, 2023, 05:41:38 pm
True.  It's still silly.

Not silly at all, you can't accuse people of criminal behaviour with no evidence. Slander someone and you get sued.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 20, 2023, 12:16:05 am
Transwoman Elite Athletes: Their Extra Percentage Relative to Female Physiology


There is increasing debate as to whether transwoman athletes should be included in the elite female competition. Most elite sports are divided into male and female divisions because of the greater athletic performance displayed by males. Without the sex division, females would have little chance of winning because males are faster, stronger, and have greater endurance capacity.

Male physiology underpins their better athletic performance including increased muscle mass and strength, stronger bones, different skeletal structure, better adapted cardiorespiratory systems, and early developmental effects on brain networks that wires males to be inherently more competitive and aggressive. Testosterone secreted before birth, postnatally, and then after puberty is the major factor that drives these physiological sex differences, and as adults, testosterone levels are ten to fifteen times higher in males than females.

The non-overlapping ranges of testosterone between the sexes has led sports regulators, such as the International Olympic Committee, to use 10 nmol/L testosterone as a sole physiological parameter to divide the male and female sporting divisions. Using testosterone levels as a basis for separating female and male elite athletes is arguably flawed. Male physiology cannot be reformatted by estrogen therapy in transwoman athletes because testosterone has driven permanent effects through early life exposure.

This descriptive critical review discusses the inherent male physiological advantages that lead to superior athletic performance and then addresses how estrogen therapy fails to create a female-like physiology in the male. Ultimately, the former male physiology of transwoman athletes provides them with a physiological advantage over the cis-female athlete.

"Testosterone drives much of the enhanced athletic performance of males through in utero, early life, and adult exposure. Many anatomical sex differences driven by testosterone are not reversible. Hemoglobin levels and muscle mass are sensitive to adult life testosterone levels, with hemoglobin being the most responsive.

Studies in transgender women, and androgen-deprivation treated cancer patients, show muscle mass is retained for many months, even years, and that co-comittant exercise mitigates muscle loss. Given that sports are currently segregated into male and female divisions because of superior male athletic performance, and that estrogen therapy will not reverse most athletic performance parameters, it follows that transgender women will enter the female division with an inherent advantage because of their prior male physiology."

source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331831/?fbclid=IwAR1rZP-LrWxd4uRQW5xdXovwgqBDLCis-dnimlkTqKwW8D7ud6_t_yBW-mk
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 21, 2023, 09:18:27 pm
Isn't this exercise rather silly? Who can predict who they're ever going to be attracted to? Lots of guys change teams in their 50s and 60s.

Most young adults figure out their sexuality by their 20s. The only people who are "changing teams" in their 50s and 60s, are bisexuals, or perhaps closeted gay people. Only 7% of the population is LGBTQ+

The silent majority (93%) have no urge to "change teams." All evidence suggests that homosexuality has genetic components to it, so people can't really change from gay-to-straight or vice versa.  This is precisely why "conversion" therapy is ineffective.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 21, 2023, 09:32:21 pm
Most young adults figure out their sexuality by their 20s. The only people who are "changing teams" in their 50s and 60s, are bisexuals, or perhaps closeted gay people. Only 7% of the population is LGBTQ+

The silent majority (93%) have no urge to "change teams." All evidence suggests that homosexuality has genetic components to it, so people can't really change from gay-to-straight or vice versa.  This is precisely why "conversion" therapy is ineffective.
You’re quite right.  And most adolescents that are afflicted by gender dysphoria outgrow the affliction as they move into their late teens and early 20s.  Making permanent decisions as to surgery and puberty blocking drugs would be a terrible policy.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 21, 2023, 09:44:52 pm
You’re quite right.  And most adolescents that are afflicted by gender dysphoria outgrow the affliction as they move into their late teens and early 20s.  Making permanent decisions as to surgery and puberty blocking drugs would be a terrible policy.

Have you ever read about the David Remier case? It's about a boy in Winnipeg that was forced to live their adolences as a girl. It's one of the most tragic and heartbreaking stories I have ever read about:

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-11814300'

He shot himself in a Superstore parking lot in 2004.


Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 22, 2023, 01:00:00 am
It's about using SLAPP to dismiss a defamation suit.  The defendant is using it frivolously IMO

Suing someone for libel for calling the act of an org "grooming" is pretty frivolous IMO.  Who would bother suing someone for that?  Unless you just wanted to shut people up, which is what SLAPP is about, so maybe they have a point?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 22, 2023, 05:27:30 am
Suing someone for libel for calling the act of an org "grooming" is pretty frivolous IMO.  Who would bother suing someone for that?  Unless you just wanted to shut people up, which is what SLAPP is about, so maybe they have a point?

After reading this post, I realized that I thought he called an individual person that name. I also thought he called them a pedo. I reread the article from press progress and you're right.

Keeping in mind that my interest in this topic is really about the public sphere, I find a lawsuit like this to be more punitive than I originally thought.

That said, I do think it's important for the courts. To clarify what the public sphere is, what free speech is, and what is slanderous and actionable in the digital domain.

The wonderful thing about social media is it's bringing in engagement from people who have had zero interest in politics in the past. It's probably people in the single digits of percentage, but that's really something.

I talk to them daily on facebook, and they truly believe that these organizations are groups of child molesters. Thanks to guys like the target of the lawsuit.

As the judge said

“If the post merely questioned the propriety of drag storytime for children, or expressed his opinion that drag storytime is not appropriate for children, I may have been inclined to find that the matter was social commentary and public interest speech.”

So he's going to be the guinea pig for learning the consequences of making public statements in the new and institutionalized digital space.  If people can't call child advocates, and such, **** then I guess you can have to come up with some real arguments.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 22, 2023, 06:16:02 am
Have you ever read about the David Remier case? It's about a boy in Winnipeg that was forced to live their adolences as a girl. It's one of the most tragic and heartbreaking stories I have ever read about:

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-11814300'

He shot himself in a Superstore parking lot in 2004.

Wow. I just read about that case.

I get at least four major lessons from it:

In chronological order,

*Circumcision is messed up. I'm glad we didn't do it for Easy
*I would never trust a doctor who proposed "cutting edge treatment" or anything that didn't already have wide acceptance in the medical community
*There seems to be a common thing where people know their gender despite what people tell them, and at an earlier age than you'd think
*Gender change is not trivial or easy, and proponents should allow the discussion of such problems, and detractors also need to discuss things in context: this means that anecdotes have to be set in context. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 22, 2023, 07:19:37 am
Now I'm wondering.

Are people still thinking I'm some kind of Transgender activist if I continue to post on this case ?

Because the most important aspects of it, to me, go to the public sphere.

Anecdotes have their place, however you don't see newspaper stories on Page 1 about the thousands, millions who went swimming in the ocean the previous day.  You see shark attacks.

Public sphere.  Soak in it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 22, 2023, 07:52:49 am
Now I'm wondering.

Are people still thinking I'm some kind of Transgender activist if I continue to post on this case ?

Because the most important aspects of it, to me, go to the public sphere.

Anecdotes have their place, however you don't see newspaper stories on Page 1 about the thousands, millions who went swimming in the ocean the previous day.  You see shark attacks.

Public sphere.  Soak in it.

Michael, it does matter. You make the forum a better place,  and I care about you.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 22, 2023, 08:35:33 am
Michael, it does matter. You make the forum a better place,  and I care about you.

What's your handle on the other board ?  How long have you been around ?

Even my online persona isn't so trusting as to "care" about someone they just noticed weeks ago.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 22, 2023, 04:59:02 pm
What's your handle on the other board ?  How long have you been around ?

Even my online persona isn't so trusting as to "care" about someone they just noticed weeks ago.

I have been on this forum for a year, Michael. Sorry for any confusion.

I actually registered in 2019, but starting posting on a regular basis, around Christmas 2022. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 22, 2023, 09:18:13 pm
I have been on this forum for a year, Michael. Sorry for any confusion.

I actually registered in 2019, but starting posting on a regular basis, around Christmas 2022.

What's your handle on the other board?

And are you using your real name on Facebook.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 26, 2023, 02:40:49 pm
These people are legit mentally ill and it’s time we stopped catering to their nonsense.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 26, 2023, 03:16:35 pm
These people are legit mentally ill and it’s time we stopped catering to their nonsense.

(Attachment Link)

You know, I'm on threads now. It's apparently 100% people like this looking for affirmation, and throwing big brick bats at toxic people. On x, we have those toxic people making fun of inclusive types.

Neither extreme is that interesting to me, nor is it conducive to creating an online public sphere that's functional.

I guess the first learning that we've all made from social media is that **** exist.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 27, 2023, 06:46:37 pm
You know, I'm on threads now. It's apparently 100% people like this looking for affirmation, and throwing big brick bats at toxic people. On x, we have those toxic people making fun of inclusive types.

Neither extreme is that interesting to me, nor is it conducive to creating an online public sphere that's functional.

I guess the first learning that we've all made from social media is that **** exist.

What is the censored work in the last sentence?

Where do we draw the line between being open to people's natural sexual preferences versus eroding the family unit?  Progressives have achieved both over the last 60 years, for the good of many and the detriment of many others.

People, especially children, need love and stability to thrive emotionally, first and foremost.  I'm not sure whether or not having both a mom and a dad around is a necessity for optimal development.  I would think at least a positive and stable female and male role model around is needed.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 27, 2023, 06:49:50 pm
How has being accepting of others eroded your family?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 27, 2023, 10:39:43 pm
What is the censored work in the last sentence?

Where do we draw the line between being open to people's natural sexual preferences versus eroding the family unit?  Progressives have achieved both over the last 60 years, for the good of many and the detriment of many others.

People, especially children, need love and stability to thrive emotionally, first and foremost.  I'm not sure whether or not having both a mom and a dad around is a necessity for optimal development.  I would think at least a positive and stable female and male role model around is needed.

The censored word is a#$holes.

The hyper focus on economy, and the cost of life outweighs any family erosion from other sources.

People aren't having kids anymore because of that.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 27, 2023, 11:55:34 pm
How has being accepting of others eroded your family?

Would you leave your wife and young children because you get the 7-year itch and want to go out and get laid by a different person every week?  Do you think your children would grow up as emotionally healthy if mom and dad are having sex with different people all the time in an ethically non-monogamous relationship?  Or if they grow up with 2 moms or 2 dads and missing a male or female role model?  If your dad turned into a woman when you were 5 years old how do you think this would have affected you?

These are questions to consider.  How many people consider these questions seriously enough?  It's not all about what we want if our actions may affect others at a fundamental level.  So again, my question was where do we draw the line when it comes to being accepting of different lifestyles?  I don't have an answer to this, i'm just asking the questions.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 28, 2023, 12:03:31 am
The censored word is a#$holes.

Quote
The hyper focus on economy, and the cost of life outweighs any family erosion from other sources.

People aren't having kids anymore because of that.

I don't understand what you mean by this.  I also don't understand what "cost of life" means?

Ok, I think you mean that the cost of living is so high that people aren't having as many kids?  Yes the cost of living is higher than 40-50 years ago and is a factor.  On the other hand, the cost of living 100 years ago wasn't exactly peaches.  We owned far fewer material possessions, a lot of people were poor.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 28, 2023, 06:10:50 am


Ok, I think you mean that the cost of living is so high that people aren't having as many kids?  Yes the cost of living is higher than 40-50 years ago and is a factor.  On the other hand, the cost of living 100 years ago wasn't exactly peaches.  We owned far fewer material possessions, a lot of people were poor.



Yeah I don't know why people had so many kids back then, or how they did it. I believe that the situation was miserable with lots of corporal punishment, violence against kids. Also, you would start working at 14, or younger if you lived on a farm.

Part of the culture of selfishness we live in today means that people won't give up personal comforts, video games even, to sacrifice for others.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 28, 2023, 07:26:43 am
I like the idea that the Left is constantly having orgies and changing their gender, but I don't think it has any connection to reality.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 28, 2023, 07:44:22 am


Yeah I don't know why people had so many kids back then, or how they did it. I believe that the situation was miserable with lots of corporal punishment, violence against kids. Also, you would start working at 14, or younger if you lived on a farm.

This is not even remotely close to being correct.  There is absolutely no evidence that would suggest that people that lived more traditional lifestyles were "more miserable" compared to 2023.  On the contrary, it could be said that a traditional life made family members more satisfied with life. There is also no evidence that kids in traditional families, with many children, experienced abuse and violence greater than they do today.


Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 28, 2023, 07:53:51 am
This is not even remotely close to being correct.  There is absolutely no evidence that would suggest that people that lived more traditional lifestyles were "more miserable" compared to 2023.  On the contrary, it could be said that a traditional life made family members more satisfied with life. There is also no evidence that kids in traditional families, with many children, experienced abuse and violence greater than they do today.

I didn't say there was evidence people were more miserable, I just said I believe it.  Of course it's an apples and oranges comparison to compare people who lived in cultures 100 years apart.

As for corporal punishment, there's more evidence for that.

https://scx2.b-cdn.net/gfx/news/hires/2023/changing-attitudes-ind-1.jpg

Older people think it's fine.  Parents today are told not to yell at their kids.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 28, 2023, 08:47:24 am


Yeah I don't know why people had so many kids back then, or how they did it. I believe that the situation was miserable with lots of corporal punishment, violence against kids. Also, you would start working at 14, or younger if you lived on a farm.
[/b]
I didn't say there was evidence people were more miserable, I just said I believe it.

(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1056/0*E1eNateTiDThGcYI.jpg)
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 28, 2023, 08:54:31 am

As for corporal punishment, there's more evidence for that.

https://scx2.b-cdn.net/gfx/news/hires/2023/changing-attitudes-ind-1.jpg

Older people think it's fine. 

Nearly every study for the past 30 years indicates corporal punishment does no harm than good.

Physical discipline is harmful and ineffective
A new APA resolution cites evidence that physical punishment can cause lasting harm for children

APA adopted a new policy about the ineffectiveness and dangers of physical discipline against children to raise awareness among parents, caregivers and mental health professionals. The Resolution on Physical Discipline of Children By Parents, adopted by APA’s Council of Representatives in February, relies on strong and sophisticated longitudinal research that finds physical discipline does not improve behavior and can lead to emotional, behavioral and academic problems over time, even after race, gender and family socioeconomic status have been statistically controlled.

To start, the research finds that hitting children does not teach them about responsibility, conscience development and self-control. "Hitting children does not teach them right from wrong," says Elizabeth Gershoff, PhD, an expert on the effects of corporal punishment on children who provided research for the resolution. "Spanking gets their attention, but they have not internalized why they should do the right thing in the future. They may behave when the adult is there but do whatever they want at other times."

In addition, children learn from watching their parents. Parents who use physical discipline may be teaching their child to resolve conflicts with physical aggression. Researchers found that spanking can elevate a child’s aggression levels as well as diminish the quality of the parent-child relationship. Other studies have documented that physical discipline can escalate into abuse.

source; https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/05/physical-discipline
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 28, 2023, 11:05:58 am


Yeah I don't know why people had so many kids back then, or how they did it. I believe that the situation was miserable with lots of corporal punishment, violence against kids. Also, you would start working at 14, or younger if you lived on a farm.

Part of the culture of selfishness we live in today means that people won't give up personal comforts, video games even, to sacrifice for others.

I think they had so many kids because there just wasn't birth control or many opportunities for women outside the home.

As you say, a less self- centered culture as well too
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 28, 2023, 11:07:41 am
I like the idea that the Left is constantly having orgies and changing their gender, but I don't think it has any connection to reality.

Bad faith strawman.  Grow up.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 28, 2023, 11:22:37 am
These people are legit mentally ill and it’s time we stopped catering to their nonsense.

(Attachment Link)

I looked it up.

What's wrong with that, and how, exactly, are you catering to her?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 28, 2023, 11:59:13 am
[/b]
(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1056/0*E1eNateTiDThGcYI.jpg)

Why would you quote MH as saying exactly what he said he'd said, and then post a picture of people moving goalposts?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 28, 2023, 12:53:58 pm
(https://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/schwarzenegger_stfu.jpg?w=720)


Having said that, I have now placed you on ignore.

Silly w@nker.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 28, 2023, 01:34:28 pm
[/b]
(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1056/0*E1eNateTiDThGcYI.jpg)

Well you quoted the very thing that exonerates me here. I didn't say it was true for a fact, I said I believe it. There's no way of knowing if people were happier then. If you can prove it, go ahead, I think we just have different guesses.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 28, 2023, 01:35:17 pm
Nearly every study for the past 30 years indicates corporal punishment does no harm than good.

Physical discipline is harmful and ineffective
A new APA resolution cites evidence that physical punishment can cause lasting harm for children

APA adopted a new policy about the ineffectiveness and dangers of physical discipline against children to raise awareness among parents, caregivers and mental health professionals. The Resolution on Physical Discipline of Children By Parents, adopted by APA’s Council of Representatives in February, relies on strong and sophisticated longitudinal research that finds physical discipline does not improve behavior and can lead to emotional, behavioral and academic problems over time, even after race, gender and family socioeconomic status have been statistically controlled.

To start, the research finds that hitting children does not teach them about responsibility, conscience development and self-control. "Hitting children does not teach them right from wrong," says Elizabeth Gershoff, PhD, an expert on the effects of corporal punishment on children who provided research for the resolution. "Spanking gets their attention, but they have not internalized why they should do the right thing in the future. They may behave when the adult is there but do whatever they want at other times."

In addition, children learn from watching their parents. Parents who use physical discipline may be teaching their child to resolve conflicts with physical aggression. Researchers found that spanking can elevate a child’s aggression levels as well as diminish the quality of the parent-child relationship. Other studies have documented that physical discipline can escalate into abuse.

source; https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/05/physical-discipline

That's a very long post arguing against something I didn't say.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 28, 2023, 01:36:01 pm
Why would you quote MH as saying exactly what he said he'd said, and then post a picture of people moving goalposts?

I don't understand that either.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 28, 2023, 01:36:32 pm
Really confused by this thread.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 28, 2023, 02:06:29 pm
Everyone is special and has to have a label. So you are abrosexual, like who cares but you.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 28, 2023, 02:11:16 pm
Everyone is special and has to have a label. So you are abrosexual, like who cares but you.
Exactly.  These people need to live their lives and stop caring about whether others are interested in who they’re attracted to.  It’s a bizarre type of narcissism, which society seems to cultivate nowadays.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 28, 2023, 02:17:32 pm
This is kinda like me stating that nobody cares about your complaints about trans folks in sports.

I got shouted at though...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 28, 2023, 02:26:07 pm
This is kinda like me stating that nobody cares about your complaints about trans folks in sports.

I got shouted at though...
Not really.  Who somebody is attracted to involves, and impacts nobody's lives other than those involved.  Biological men competing, winning awards, taking scholarships, etc, directly impacts the lives of the women who compete in those leagues.  There's a big difference.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 28, 2023, 02:45:38 pm
That's a very long post arguing against something I didn't say.

I never said you did.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 28, 2023, 02:58:58 pm
Not really.  Who somebody is attracted to involves, and impacts nobody's lives other than those involved.  Biological men competing, winning awards, taking scholarships, etc, directly impacts the lives of the women who compete in those leagues.  There's a big difference.
But they're talking about people who identify as they do.  Saying that they exist.

And you're not a woman athlete...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 28, 2023, 02:59:51 pm
I never said you did.

But you quoted me and then posted the article as though you were responding?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 28, 2023, 03:16:57 pm
(https://www.effenberger-couture.com/cdn/shop/products/effenberger-couture-gay-men-underwear-290_1800x1800.jpg?v=1601372618)

Speaking of shouting....

You will be shouting at this chocolate specimen next time you are at ladies night, Michael....wink*
He takes his kids to see that at pride.  Or that might be Blackie.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 28, 2023, 03:33:45 pm
Watch out. They might try to dox you.
Fortunately they're super-gullible and easily manipulated. 😂
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 28, 2023, 03:36:27 pm
Watch out. They might try to dox you.
Fortunately they're super-gullible and easily manipulated. 😂

Mr.Jowett, you are a poet....and you did not even know it!
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 28, 2023, 03:41:39 pm
Mr.Jowett, you are a poet....and you did not even know it!
It was funny to see him post an attachment literally named Jowett by accident a couple of weeks ago.  I think that’s one of the reasons he deleted his account.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 28, 2023, 03:46:48 pm
Watch out. They might try to dox you.
Fortunately they're super-gullible and easily manipulated. 😂

What kind of piece of sh!t tries to do that to people?   The only reason they’re even here is because the forum is not moderated.  Doxing generally gets one kicked off most forums.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 28, 2023, 03:47:24 pm
Now I'm even more confused.

Coolio, are you asking about my sexual preferences? You can just ask
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 28, 2023, 03:50:42 pm
It was funny to see him post an attachment literally named Jowett by accident a couple of weeks ago.  I think that’s one of the reasons he deleted his account.
Wow. I knew you were stupid but I had no idea. It's awesome that you can just go on making a fool of yourself over and over. That's a rare quality.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 28, 2023, 03:52:05 pm
Wow. I knew you were stupid but I had no idea. It's awesome that you can just go on making a fool of yourself over and over. That's a rare quality.
Why was the file that you attached to your post named Jowett? 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 28, 2023, 03:56:10 pm
Uh...because it was a news story about a guy of that name, and I created the file from the newspaper archive? 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 28, 2023, 03:59:21 pm
Wannabe doxer is offended that someone manipulated his doxing attempts. How dishonest! 😂
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 28, 2023, 04:01:38 pm
I very much prefer that you don't. If all goes well, my initial hope of you becoming an annoyance to that individual might yet come to fruition.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 28, 2023, 04:02:14 pm
From 2006-22, there was a person who registerd under the name "LonJowett" on the MLW forum. He also registered as "Bubbermiley, and used two accounts for a decade, until people caught on to the ruse.

If he is this person, why are you trying to dox him?   Just for sh!ts and giggles? 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on December 28, 2023, 04:02:49 pm
I very much prefer that you don't. If all goes well, my initial hope of you becoming an annoyance to that individual might yet come to fruition.

Sorry Bubber, I did not mean to annoy you. Just busting your chops.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on December 28, 2023, 04:06:29 pm
You don't annoy me. I enjoy watching you humiliate yourself and not even realize it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 28, 2023, 04:28:36 pm
I didn't say there was evidence people were more miserable, I just said I believe it.  Of course it's an apples and oranges comparison to compare people who lived in cultures 100 years apart.

As for corporal punishment, there's more evidence for that.

https://scx2.b-cdn.net/gfx/news/hires/2023/changing-attitudes-ind-1.jpg

Older people think it's fine.  Parents today are told not to yell at their kids.

Children are happier when they aren't physically and verbally abused.  They're also generally happier when they grow up in a longterm committed relationship with 2 parents who get along and don't abuse them as opposed to a broken family.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on December 28, 2023, 04:32:31 pm
Uh...because it was a news story about a guy of that name, and I created the file from the newspaper archive?

Wow bubber. You really need to step up your game. One the one hand you’re this manipulative multiple account holder and on the other hand you’re using your real name. 🙄

Because that’s so typical of Internet forum agitators.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 28, 2023, 04:41:05 pm
This is kinda like me stating that nobody cares about your complaints about trans folks in sports.

I got shouted at though...

What the hell does men competing in women's sports have to do with who they sleep with?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 28, 2023, 04:42:51 pm
What the hell does men competing in women's sports have to do with who they sleep with?

I don't know. I guess one thing is not to be posted in the other thing is? I'm not sure what the moral principle behind all this stuff is. Why don't you start with a an attempt to explain...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on December 28, 2023, 04:49:03 pm
You don't annoy me. I enjoy watching you humiliate yourself and not even realize it.
You’ll always be Blubber Slimy to me buddy!  Regardless of who you are.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on December 28, 2023, 04:52:30 pm
I don't know. I guess one thing is not to be posted in the other thing is? I'm not sure what the moral principle behind all this stuff is. Why don't you start with a an attempt to explain...

I couldn't care less who people choose to sleep with, women having to compete against men in women's sport is an insult to women. One is a free choice made by consenting adults, the other is having something imposed on them against their will. It is as simple as that.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on December 28, 2023, 04:52:48 pm
I don't know. I guess one thing is not to be posted in the other thing is? I'm not sure what the moral principle behind all this stuff is. Why don't you start with a an attempt to explain...

I think the conversation went this way because Queefer asked BD if he’d ever hook up with a trans woman. I believe the point he was making was that trans women are not women.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 28, 2023, 05:56:34 pm
This is kinda like me stating that nobody cares about your complaints about trans folks in sports.

I got shouted at though...

I think that's because you were wrong.  Lots of people care about that.

That said, I'm still waiting to see how Shady is being forced to cater to abrosexuals.  I've only ever seen one in my life, and it took Shady himself to bring her to my attention.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 28, 2023, 06:11:57 pm
But they're talking about people who identify as they do.  Saying that they exist.

And you're not a woman athlete...

Is a transwoman athlete a woman athlete or a transwoman athlete?  What if they haven't taken any female hormones?  Should they still compete against cis women?  That seems completely illogical, the playing field would be made totally unfair for cis women.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 28, 2023, 07:41:01 pm
Is a transwoman athlete a woman athlete or a transwoman athlete?  What if they haven't taken any female hormones?  Should they still compete against cis women?  That seems completely illogical, the playing field would be made totally unfair for cis women.
.

I don't know.


Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 28, 2023, 07:42:22 pm
I think that's because you were wrong.  Lots of people care about that.

That said, I'm still waiting to see how Shady is being forced to cater to abrosexuals.  I've only ever seen one in my life, and it took Shady himself to bring her to my attention.

But it's ok to complain about people who talk about gender?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: guest7 on December 28, 2023, 07:45:46 pm
But it's ok to complain about people who talk about gender?

I suppose it's okay to complain about anything.  People might complain if they don't agree with you.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 28, 2023, 10:53:24 pm
Nearly every study for the past 30 years indicates corporal punishment does no harm than good.

Physical discipline is harmful and ineffective
A new APA resolution cites evidence that physical punishment can cause lasting harm for children

APA adopted a new policy about the ineffectiveness and dangers of physical discipline against children to raise awareness among parents, caregivers and mental health professionals. The Resolution on Physical Discipline of Children By Parents, adopted by APA’s Council of Representatives in February, relies on strong and sophisticated longitudinal research that finds physical discipline does not improve behavior and can lead to emotional, behavioral and academic problems over time, even after race, gender and family socioeconomic status have been statistically controlled.

To start, the research finds that hitting children does not teach them about responsibility, conscience development and self-control. "Hitting children does not teach them right from wrong," says Elizabeth Gershoff, PhD, an expert on the effects of corporal punishment on children who provided research for the resolution. "Spanking gets their attention, but they have not internalized why they should do the right thing in the future. They may behave when the adult is there but do whatever they want at other times."

In addition, children learn from watching their parents. Parents who use physical discipline may be teaching their child to resolve conflicts with physical aggression. Researchers found that spanking can elevate a child’s aggression levels as well as diminish the quality of the parent-child relationship. Other studies have documented that physical discipline can escalate into abuse.

source; https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/05/physical-discipline

Michael Hardner isn't a child beater, but he does identify as one. (jk)

I don't think anyone should hit their children, it's cruel and emotionally/physically scarring.  But I would disagree that isn't effective though.  Fear is an effective way to stop people from doing things you don't want them to do.  Many mammals cause some mild forms of physical pain on their offspring and others in their social circle to enforce their social rules and personal boundaries.

However, humans shouldn't act like animals.  We have complex languages systems so we can use words and other actions/punishments to enforce rules that aren't physically or emotionally scarring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jenVMnOi2uA
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 29, 2023, 02:10:38 am
But it's ok to complain about people who talk about gender?

Wait are you complaining about complaining?  And am I complaining about your complaining of complaining?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on December 29, 2023, 04:55:58 am
Wait are you complaining about complaining?  And am I complaining about your complaining of complaining?

Yeah I think that might be it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on January 04, 2024, 10:24:26 pm
Another LGBT mass shooter.   
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2024/01/04/perry-iowa-school-shooting-suspect-posted-on-tiktok-before-shooting-dylan-butler/72108055007/
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 05, 2024, 05:52:12 am
Another LGBT mass shooter.   
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2024/01/04/perry-iowa-school-shooting-suspect-posted-on-tiktok-before-shooting-dylan-butler/72108055007/

I wonder what the incidence of straight white males would be if one did an analysis.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on January 05, 2024, 06:58:42 am
I wonder what the incidence of straight white males would be if one did an analysis.

Probably about the same.

There has always been a misconception about serial killers, and that they are more likely (per-capita) to be Caucasian than any other race. Statistics show the race/ethnic background of serial killers is directly proportional to the demographics of the overall population at the time. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 05, 2024, 08:29:04 am
I wonder what the incidence of straight white males would be if one did an analysis.

Men under 30.

Testosterone kills.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 05, 2024, 12:53:43 pm
Having tried and failed to convince people that LGBTQ people are all child predators, the right is now trying to portray them all as violent monsters. The disgusting c*nt behind the Libs of TikTok hate account says "Trans extremists are a serious threat" despite every terrorist mass shooting being perpetrated by the kind of people who follow libs of TikTok. this unhinged campaign will be no more successful at changing attitudes towards LGBTQ people than the last one, but that's not the point. The point is to incite hatred and ultimately violence.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on January 05, 2024, 03:28:33 pm
Another LGBT mass shooter.   
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2024/01/04/perry-iowa-school-shooting-suspect-posted-on-tiktok-before-shooting-dylan-butler/72108055007/

I think I wrote something similar to this after the Nashville shooter, and I'll write it again because I think this is an important point:

People who are distressed search for answers. 

Often times that comes in the form of drug or alcohol abuse. I heard Terry Bradshaw on the Jim Rome show one day. After all the football chat, Jim asked Terry to talk about depression. Terry said something like "I started asking myself, why do I have to drink all the time? Why do I have to get drunk to feel alright? So finally I went and talked to my doctor."  It's a banal statement, but it saw like a light went on for me because I did understand what depression was, but I never got the connection to substance abuse before then (and since then I learned the term "self-medicating".)  One of my cousin's children was heavily into all kinds of drugs and alcohol, and when he was eventually diagnosed as schizophrenic, it made sense. He was abusing drugs because he felt like something was wrong inside his head and the drugs made it better. People with mental health distress often turn to substance abuse because it numbs the pain or makes the world less frightening.

Sometimes instead of drugs and alcohol, it might be religion or a cult. How often do emotionally distressed people turn to extreme religion looking for answers?  Suddenly instead of an outcast you've got a passionate community around you. And you've got a mission and a purpose and a reason for being. This can sometimes take a pretty dark turn. Remember the Victoria BC couple who got busted in an RCMP sting for planning a terror attack?  They were just a couple of garden variety drug addicts who suddenly converted to Islam and decided they needed to do some Jihad. They had no connection to Islam, but somehow decided that this was what they needed to do with their lives. Is it likely that they had a sudden religious revelation, or is it more likely that these were just a couple of idiots who were desperate to find some meaning in their lives?

So how does this relate to gender identity?

Gender dysphoria is being presented to confused young people as a potential explanation for their emotional troubles. There's a checklist of potential signs (a checklist that looks remarkably similar to regular depression) and people see themselves in that list.   Often feel sad? Don't fit in with other people your age? Feel like an outsider?  Poor self esteem? Poor body image? Feel like you're just different from other boys/girls? These could all be signs of gender dysphoria. People who are in distress look for answers, and for some of them, this looks like the answer.  You'll feel better about yourself, you'll become part of a vibrant community, you'll discover your people.

Audrey Hale didn't start identifying herself as "Aiden" until a few months before she went on the shooting rampage. People who looked through her social media presents and her artwork believe that her mental health was deteriorating well before then. She was an artist... her artwork went from being cute happy cartoons to being chaotic, violent, and dark, well before she started talking about herself as trans.  She didn't go on a shooting rampage because she was trans.  She went on a shooting rampage because she was in mental health distress.  Adopting a male gender identity was an attempt to make sense of a life that was going off the rails, and obviously it didn't work.

And they'll find the same with the Iowa guy.  They'll find that this is a kid who had troubles that went back longer than his dabbling with gender ideology on Reddit and Tik-Tok.


This has turned into a pretty long rant... I guess the short version is that gender identity doesn't make people violent, but gender identity is going to attract distressed people who are looking for answers in their lives, and distressed people sometimes do bad things.


 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 05, 2024, 04:03:22 pm
This has turned into a pretty long rant... I guess the short version is that gender identity doesn't make people violent, but gender identity is going to attract distressed people who are looking for answers in their lives, and distressed people sometimes do bad things.
 -k

The difference between someone with mental health issues including "gender identity" (to use your framing) and someone with mental health issues who turns to radical Islam or far right conspiracies is there's nothing about gender dysphoria that promotes or encourages violence, whereas committing violence is a central part of those other ideologies I mentioned. But when your pals at Libs of TikTok start talking about "Trans extremists are a serious threat," they are suggesting that "gender identity" is in fact a violent ideology, no?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on January 05, 2024, 04:24:25 pm
The difference between someone with mental health issues including "gender identity" (to use your framing) and someone with mental health issues who turns to radical Islam or far right conspiracies is there's nothing about gender dysphoria that promotes or encourages violence, whereas committing violence is a central part of those other ideologies I mentioned. But when your pals at Libs of TikTok start talking about "Trans extremists are a serious threat," they are suggesting that "gender identity" is in fact a violent ideology, no?

I'm not arguing on behalf of Libs of TikTok's claim. She's not my pal, I don't agree with her politics, I just enjoy the videos they/them people having meltdowns over pronouns.

My point, and I think I made it clear already, is that distressed people are drawn to things they think can help them solve their distress. Gender identity isn't inherently violent (neither are substance abuse or most forms of religion, or other fantabulous beliefs). 

If Audrey Hale's new male identity had succeeded in giving her whatever she was missing in life, I don't think she would have shot up a school, that seems pretty obvious. She went on a rampage because the things she tried (and there were probably other things she tried before she tried going trans) didn't solve her problems.

I think that if we look at the histories of people who commit violence, we will probably find a high correlation of things like alcohol abuse, or court-mandated anger management courses, or use of anti-depressant medication, or so-on.

And that correlation doesn't indicate that anger management courses or anti-depressant medications, or alcohol abuse are the actual cause of the violence, the correlation is because these are the kind of things we would expect to find in the history of a struggling person as they move through life.  And moving forward we may also see gender identity confusion as one more indicator of a person who is struggling.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 05, 2024, 04:29:23 pm
I'm not arguing on behalf of Libs of TikTok's claim. She's not my pal, I don't agree with her politics, I just enjoy the videos they/them people having meltdowns over pronouns.

weird kink but ok.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on January 05, 2024, 08:24:43 pm
Make no mistake, LGBT is as much of a religion as Islam etc.  If you don’t comply, you’re essentially a heathen to them.  The left hates libs of tik tok because it shows just how crazy the rank and file LGBTer actually is.

[attachimg=1]
https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1743384114995376461?s=20
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 05, 2024, 08:28:06 pm
Make no mistake, LGBT is as much of a religion as Islam etc.  If you don’t comply, you’re essentially a heathen to them.  The left hates libs of tik tok because it shows just how crazy the rank and file LGBTer actually is.

Tapping the sign:

Having tried and failed to convince people that LGBTQ people are all child predators, the right is now trying to portray them all as violent monsters. The disgusting c*nt behind the Libs of TikTok hate account says "Trans extremists are a serious threat" despite every terrorist mass shooting being perpetrated by the kind of people who follow libs of TikTok. this unhinged campaign will be no more successful at changing attitudes towards LGBTQ people than the last one, but that's not the point. The point is to incite hatred and ultimately violence.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on January 05, 2024, 08:34:46 pm
Tapping the sign:
Tapping your straw man is irrelevant.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 05, 2024, 11:40:49 pm
Tapping your straw man is irrelevant.

Tapping the sign that says “kill yourself, you useless waste of space.”
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 06, 2024, 06:56:20 am
LGBTQ is not a religion.  It's four tribes.  Just as religion describes a family of tribes.

Western democracy recognized the legitimacy of tribes as a container of communities that constitute cultures in pursuit of happiness.

As long as they exist peacefully within the frameworks designed to make them coexist.

And when they do this, they tend to melt away.  And that causes tension.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 07, 2024, 11:54:55 pm
Quote
LGBT is as much of a religion as Islam

So you think religion is a bad thing….  Well, at least you got that part correct.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 08, 2024, 05:44:45 am
So you think religion is a bad thing….  Well, at least you got that part correct.

Good and Bad' are simplistic terms.

Religion must have had utility at some point, and therefore advanced civilization.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on January 08, 2024, 03:35:26 pm
So you think religion is a bad thing….  Well, at least you got that part correct.
No, it's not necessarily a bad thing.  I don't care if a man wants to dress up like a woman, think they're a woman, and even have surgery to be more like a woman.  More power to them.  Live your life how you see fit.  Just don't push your beliefs onto me, and/or insist that I have to participate in it in some way.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2024, 04:09:01 pm
Good and Bad' are simplistic terms.

Religion must have had utility at some point, and therefore advanced civilization.

I’m responding to the quote by Shiddy claiming LGBTQ is a religion.  This implies that he thinks religion is a bad thing.  Otherwise, why the analogy?

Of course his response is as stupid and vapid as his analogy.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 08, 2024, 04:24:42 pm
I’m responding to the quote by Shiddy claiming LGBTQ is a religion.  This implies that he thinks religion is a bad thing.  Otherwise, why the analogy?

Of course his response is as stupid and vapid as his analogy.

I get it now, but you shouldn't call Shady 'stupid'.  It's not nice. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2024, 04:31:04 pm
I get it now, but you shouldn't call Shady 'stupid'.  It's not nice.

I didn’t.  I said his response was stupid (and vapid). 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2024, 04:45:21 pm
No, it's not necessarily a bad thing.  I don't care if a man wants to dress up like a woman, think they're a woman, and even have surgery to be more like a woman.  More power to them.  Live your life how you see fit.  Just don't push your beliefs onto me, and/or insist that I have to participate in it in some way.

How are you being asked to participate? Are people forcing you to suck d**k?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on January 08, 2024, 05:36:48 pm
How are you being asked to participate? Are people forcing you to suck d**k?
Many are being asked to participate.  Women for instance, who literally have scholarships stolen from them.  There are anti-free speech laws compelling people to use to certain language.  Medical institutions are redefining medical terms and procedures.  Even traditional religion hasn’t done that.   Trans women are women is the new 2+2=5.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on January 08, 2024, 05:54:36 pm
More on the latest LGBT shooter.

[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 08, 2024, 05:55:50 pm
I too have heard medical terms and procedures I've never heard of might be different from what they were before, but I'm not sure. If that's true, though, I'm outraged!  😡
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 08, 2024, 05:57:17 pm
More on the latest LGBT shooter.


If statistics indicate that white male conservatives are overwhelmingly the most likely to commit a mass shooting, would that concern you?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2024, 06:36:46 pm
Many are being asked to participate.  Women for instance, who literally have scholarships stolen from them.  There are anti-free speech laws compelling people to use to certain language.  Medical institutions are redefining medical terms and procedures.  Even traditional religion hasn’t done that.   Trans women are women is the new 2+2=5.


Not a single real world example cited. Classic Shiddy.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2024, 06:40:10 pm
More on the latest LGBT shooter.

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

What does their gender identity have to do with their crimes? You don’t see anyone calling any of the dozens of right wing mass shooters “cisgender mass shooter”.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on January 08, 2024, 07:05:12 pm

Not a single real world example cited. Classic Shiddy.
Hey son, you deaf?  Compelled speech, like pronouns.  Biological men in women’s sports.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 08, 2024, 08:19:28 pm
Hey son, you deaf?  Compelled speech, like pronouns.  Biological men in women’s sports.

Compelled speech? No one’s being forced to use pronouns just like no one was forced to wear pride jerseys or any of the other scenarios you have to invent to pretend to be a victim.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on January 09, 2024, 07:05:08 am
Shady also wailed about compelled speech when he was told to use his manners and say "please" and "thank you" by people who tried to take up the slack of his poor parenting.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on January 09, 2024, 08:22:55 am
Shady also wailed about compelled speech when he was told to use his manners and say "please" and "thank you" by people who tried to take up the slack of his poor parenting.
Nope.  The government doesn't threaten people with jail time or force for not saying please and thank you.  Good ol'Police State Bubber, at it again!
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 09, 2024, 09:49:53 am
Nope.  The government doesn't threaten people with jail time or force for not saying please and thank you.  Good ol'Police State Bubber, at it again!

The government doesn't do that with pronouns either, halfwit.

It's been more than seven years since bill C-16 has been passed and not one person has been put in jail or executed for using the wrong pronouns, SMDH.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on January 09, 2024, 10:20:33 am
The government doesn't do that with pronouns either, halfwit.
Literally compelled to call an individual a plural pronoun.  Complete and utter insanity.

Human rights tribunal found Jessie Nelson was discriminated against because of their gender identity
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1828202/b-c-server-who-was-fired-after-asking-to-be-addressed-by-correct-pronouns-awarded-30k

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 09, 2024, 11:04:42 am
Literally compelled to call an individual a plural pronoun.  Complete and utter insanity.

Human rights tribunal found Jessie Nelson was discriminated against because of their gender identity
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1828202/b-c-server-who-was-fired-after-asking-to-be-addressed-by-correct-pronouns-awarded-30k

Do you even fuckin' read these things.

Quote
The decision says bar manager Brian Gobelle was particularly hostile, repeatedly and persistently referring to Nelson with she/her pronouns and with gendered nicknames like sweetheart, honey, and pinky — a reference to their pink hair.

Turns out that if someone asks you to use a certain pronoun and you not only refuse but proceed to engage in a campaign of discriminatory behaviour and harassment, and then you fire the person for complaining, you can get dinged for it, what a shock.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 09, 2024, 12:03:16 pm
Literally compelled to call an individual a plural pronoun.  Complete and utter insanity.

Human rights tribunal found Jessie Nelson was discriminated against because of their gender identity
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1828202/b-c-server-who-was-fired-after-asking-to-be-addressed-by-correct-pronouns-awarded-30k

LOL

So if an employer says “instead of Shady I’m going to call you Cu*t-face incessantly to harass you and then fire you for complaining about it”, you’re saying there would (and should)be no consequences to your employer for that?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on January 09, 2024, 01:07:26 pm
LOL

So if an employer says “instead of Shady I’m going to call you Cu*t-face incessantly to harass you and then fire you for complaining about it”, you’re saying there would (and should)be no consequences to your employer for that?
Terrible analogy.  Try harder.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on January 09, 2024, 01:10:25 pm
Just fur the record, are the pro LGBT people of the forum saying that not using someone’s preferred pronouns should be legal?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 09, 2024, 01:13:16 pm
Just fur the record, are the pro LGBT people of the forum saying that not using someone’s preferred pronouns should be legal?

Of course it's legal and should be along with all insults.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 09, 2024, 01:26:25 pm
Just fur the record, are the pro LGBT people of the forum saying that not using someone’s preferred pronouns should be legal?

It already is.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 09, 2024, 01:27:45 pm
Terrible analogy.  Try harder.

You seem to think employers should be able to harass workers and fire them if they complain tho.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 09, 2024, 02:09:56 pm
Terrible analogy.  Try harder.

Why does that analogy not fit?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on January 11, 2024, 11:28:32 am
Literal groomers.

Former president of northern B.C. pride organization charged with committing child-sex crimes
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fort-st-john-man-charged-with-child-sex-crimes-1.7076997
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 11, 2024, 11:31:38 am
Literal groomers.

Former president of northern B.C. pride organization charged with committing child-sex crimes
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fort-st-john-man-charged-with-child-sex-crimes-1.7076997

So... what's the score now ?  Republicans 10,000 Pride Presidents 1 ?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on January 11, 2024, 11:57:46 am
Literal groomers.

Former president of northern B.C. pride organization charged with committing child-sex crimes
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fort-st-john-man-charged-with-child-sex-crimes-1.7076997

Quote
The charges against Sean Gravells, 39, include touching a person under 16 for sexual purposes, sexual interference of a person under 16, possession of child pornography, and importing or distributing child pornography, BCPS spokesperson Dan McLaughlin told CBC News in an emailed statement on Monday.
Every youth pastor:

(https://media1.tenor.com/m/8CPvdgIHcZ4AAAAC/rookie-numbers.gif)
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 11, 2024, 01:47:53 pm
https://www.newsnationnow.com/religion/sanctuary-of-sin-how-a-religious-order-became-a-haven-for-****-priests/amp/

The church hides their **** priests.   I suppose they’ll unleash them on unsuspecting church-goers once they deem them “fixed”.

Quote
Patrick Wall is a former priest who now advocates for clerical sex abuse survivors.

“The official position is priests are celibate and holy and chaste,” he said. “But if we have this island over here, which we’re specifically funding with people’s money in order to isolate these really severe sex offenders, that doesn’t jive with the position. So, that’s why they made him sell it.”

The Servants continued to expand over the years, opening centers across the U.S.

Today, only one known location exists, in the forests of Dittmer, Missouri.

NewsNation affiliate WGN found the property houses six registered sex offenders, according to the Missouri State Highway Patrol. All are clergy members. But it’s unknown who else resides there.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: BC_cheque on January 12, 2024, 10:49:10 pm
Why does that analogy not fit?


I think what shady means is that in one of those scenarios the ‘abusive name calling’ is based in truth while the other isn’t.

Of course he’s 100% correct —- he just has them backward lol
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on January 20, 2024, 06:33:19 pm
How long are women going to tolerate this nonsense?

[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 03, 2024, 06:37:41 am
The liberal public sphere finally gets around questioning the politics around transgender children.

https://archive.ph/HhfCD

I like it!.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 03, 2024, 03:04:09 pm
The liberal public sphere finally gets around questioning the politics around transgender children.

https://archive.ph/HhfCD

I like it!.

What are you talking about the NYT has been a big platform for anti trans views for a long time.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 03, 2024, 04:06:37 pm
What are you talking about the NYT has been a big platform for anti trans views for a long time.

Is that what this is.

Seems pretty balanced to me.

Do tell.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 03, 2024, 05:32:29 pm
Is that what this is.

Seems pretty balanced to me.

Do tell.
It actually is a very balanced article.  That’s why Black Dog hates it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 03, 2024, 05:33:16 pm
Giving puberty blockers to 8 year olds.  JFC.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 03, 2024, 06:41:49 pm
Giving puberty blockers to 8 year olds.  JFC.

(Attachment Link)

Why are you incapable of providing links you moron?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 03, 2024, 06:47:52 pm
Is that what this is.

Seems pretty balanced to me.

Do tell.

A “balanced” article would involve talking to someone who transitioned as an adolescent with no regrets or a clinician who supports a gender affirming model. None of those views appear here. It’s also riddled with factual inaccuracies. https://x.com/erininthemorn/status/1753512933479284892?s=46&t=G8DtftIJA1neVWFQ7OQYYg

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 03, 2024, 06:54:30 pm
Some women have a ****.   One time I made Black Dog and Bubber admit that they'd have no issue dating one.  It was awesome.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 03, 2024, 07:07:03 pm
Some women have a ****.   One time I made Black Dog and Bubber admit that they'd have no issue dating one.  It was awesome.
That was amazing, and good on you for getting them to admit it.  I mean they already go to pride events so it’s probably not all that surprising.  I actually think both of them probably enjoy sucking d**k.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 03, 2024, 07:53:19 pm
Some women have a ****.   One time I made Black Dog and Bubber admit that they'd have no issue dating one.  It was awesome.

 So what if they would?   How was that a win for you?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 03, 2024, 07:57:34 pm
It was awesome.
I'll admit much, much worse than that.
I don't recall you being such a loser though
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 03, 2024, 08:09:35 pm
I'll admit much, much worse than that.
I don't recall you being such a loser though

Getting someone to admit to dating a trans person is a huge win for the incel retard community I guess. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 03, 2024, 08:59:22 pm
It wasn't even that. He asked "Would you date an attractive trans person?" He already admitted they were attractive in the phrasing of the question.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 03, 2024, 11:02:14 pm
So what if they would?   How was that a win for you?

Whoa wait, squid if you were single would you date someone if they were a trans woman?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 03, 2024, 11:04:04 pm
That was amazing, and good on you for getting them to admit it.  I mean they already go to pride events so it’s probably not all that surprising.  I actually think both of them probably enjoy sucking d**k.

It’s funny when you let the mask slip and prove to everyone what a garden variety bigot you are.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 04, 2024, 02:34:31 am
It’s funny when you let the mask slip and prove to everyone what a garden variety bigot you are.

They actually think it’s some sort of “gotcha”.  It’s only a gotcha among bigoted anti-gay, anti-trans, basement-dwelling incels. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 04, 2024, 02:39:03 am
Whoa wait, squid if you were single would you date someone if they were a trans woman?

Are you excited that you uncovered some fags on the forum?  F#ck you and Shiddy are really awful people. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 04, 2024, 06:24:48 am
It’s funny when you let the mask slip and prove to everyone what a garden variety bigot you are.
Eight years of Obama as president made his level of bigotry pretty clear.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2024, 07:49:37 am
Okay.

This is a very difficult topic to get through, and it's been politicized maybe more than any other issue in the various battles that make up the culture wars. I suspect it's because of the involvement of children, LGBTQ and so on.

First to acknowledge that I missed that this is an editorial, and that is probably the biggest mistake I made


Now, looking at it again I can see there's a lot of anecdotal stuff and words that are loaded to persuade the reader.

However, there's still some specific claims that warrant investigation, and should be noted for people who believe that the politics needs to be removed in favor of patient care. I believe that everyone is subject to political bias, no exceptions.

The chief claim here is that patients are being processed without being fully assessed.

From the globe and mail article about the Alberta laws pass this week, they referred to this document as the global standard for care.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/26895269.2022.2100644

It's supposedly followed internationally, as a base framework.  It's hundreds of pages long, but I found statement 6.3, that clearly states that biopsychosocial assessment be done.  If it's not done, then that's a concern. The degree to which these things are happening or not happening should be trackable.

I also noted that Dr. Erica Anderson is cited, who I believe is a trans therapist who cited similar concerns.  I guess you can be concerned about people who are concerned, and maybe be concerned about the people who are concerned about those who are concerned. After a few iterations of concern, maybe somebody can get down and report back as to what's happening.

If the people citing concerns about lack of assessment are qualified, I would say that's enough to have a conversation. And I do think, based on some reactions to Dr. Erica Anderson, that there's a witch hunt atmosphere was defended by Dan Savage, in a controversy a few years back. I listened to the interview that caused said controversy and I heard normal and qualified people, including a trans person talking about what was best for patients.

So this makes me think that it's worth asking questions.



Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 04, 2024, 09:04:42 am
Are you excited that you uncovered some fags on the forum?  F#ck you and Shiddy are really awful people.

They aren't gay you idiot.

Speaking of awful people, I'm not the one who aggressively despises people just because they politically disagree with them ya big baby.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 04, 2024, 09:09:41 am
Alberta's new laws seem mostly reasonable.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 04, 2024, 09:46:45 am
Alberta's new laws seem mostly reasonable.
I know.  Imagine parents have the final say as to the names of their children and how they’re referred to.  Libtards are losing their minds over it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 04, 2024, 09:48:50 am
They actually think it’s some sort of “gotcha”.  It’s only a gotcha among bigoted anti-gay, anti-trans, basement-dwelling incels.
Generally speaking, guys don’t want their wives/girlfriends to have d**ks.  They generally prefer xx chromosomes, not xy.  Your wife/girlfriend is a man if they’re xy.  Nothing bigoted about it. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 04, 2024, 10:02:40 am
It’s funny when you let the mask slip and prove to everyone what a garden variety bigot you are.
It’s not a bigot to have certain standards as to whom you’d date, etc.   There are many qualities guys look for in the opposite sex.  Having a d**k isn’t one of them.  Sorry.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2024, 10:06:20 am
Alberta's new laws seem mostly reasonable.

After reading this and convince that the in between ground is vast.

This is clearly political bill, done. Done to appeal to social reactionaries

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-alberta-gender-affirming-care-guidelines/

This issue is poisoned by politics on all sides.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2024, 10:06:48 am
But to add.... Especially poisoned by the cultural warriors of the right. They are worse.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2024, 10:08:21 am
I know.  Imagine parents have the final say as to the names of their children and how they’re referred to.  Libtards are losing their minds over it.

I don't have a lot of experience in this except as a son, but I would say wanting to hide things from your parents is a natural instinct.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 04, 2024, 12:47:31 pm
But to add.... Especially poisoned by the cultural warriors of the right. They are worse.

But what about the bill?  Is it just or unjust?  If unjust, what's wrong with it?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 04, 2024, 12:51:29 pm
But to add.... Especially poisoned by the cultural warriors of the right. They are worse.
What about culture warriors of the left?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2024, 01:07:23 pm
But what about the bill?  Is it just or unjust?  If unjust, what's wrong with it?

I got my opinion from the G&M article I posted.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2024, 01:07:44 pm
What about culture warriors of the left?

They exist.  They're not as bad.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: waldo on February 04, 2024, 02:30:31 pm
c'mon PoiLIEvre/CPC! For or against? What say you, hey!

(https://i.imgur.com/DpT308H.png)
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 04, 2024, 03:03:16 pm
It’s not a bigot to have certain standards as to whom you’d date, etc.   There are many qualities guys look for in the opposite sex.  Having a d**k isn’t one of them.  Sorry.

What does any of this have to do with this post of yours:

Quote
That was amazing, and good on you for getting them to admit it.  I mean they already go to pride events so it’s probably not all that surprising.  I actually think both of them probably enjoy sucking d**k.

This is, along with all the "hurrr hurr butt buddy" stuff, is simple schoolyard homophobia.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 04, 2024, 03:05:16 pm
Emphasis on simple.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 04, 2024, 03:07:34 pm
Alberta's new laws seem mostly reasonable.

Hard to say for sure since we don't actually have any legislation to look at, just Horseface's video remarks, but the stuff around kid's pronouns and gender identities is expressly designed to appeal to the kind of people who would kick the crap out of their kids and throw them out of the house or they find out they're queer or trans.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 04, 2024, 04:33:13 pm
I got my opinion from the G&M article I posted.

Huh?  That doesn't answer my question.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 04, 2024, 04:41:46 pm
Hard to say for sure since we don't actually have any legislation to look at, just Horseface's video remarks, but the stuff around kid's pronouns and gender identities is expressly designed to appeal to the kind of people who would kick the crap out of their kids and throw them out of the house or they find out they're queer or trans.

"Expressly designed"?  You're making fact claims with no evidence, it sounds like conspiracy stuff.  They just had an election last year and there won't be another for a few years, there's no big reason to make laws just to pander.

What is the issue with needing parental consent for kids 15 and under when changing their pronouns at school?  Kids can't go on field trips without parental consent but they can change their pronouns/names?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 04, 2024, 04:44:59 pm
How is it the school's responsibility to be an intermediary between a child and their parent? If the kid doesn't want to tell their parent what pronoun they're using, how is it your business to force them to tell them?

Maybe their parents are homophobic like you and would only abuse them for being queer.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 04, 2024, 05:05:27 pm
How is it the school's responsibility to be an intermediary between a child and their parent? If the kid doesn't want to tell their parent what pronoun they're using, how is it your business to force them to tell them?

Maybe their parents are homophobic like you and would only abuse them for being queer.
Pronouns have nothing to do with gay/straight.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 04, 2024, 05:24:50 pm
Pronouns have nothing to do with gay/straight.
That's great to know. I bet your knowledge on this issue is comparable to every other issue you discuss.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 04, 2024, 05:26:00 pm
Some people complained that I didn’t provide a link.  As if a link makes giving an 8 year old puberty blockers.  Anyone supporting this will be judged quite harshly be history.

New York father loses legal battle to stop his son, 8, from taking puberty blockers to change gender
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13030699/amp/gender-transition-custody-battle.html
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 04, 2024, 05:26:29 pm
That's great to know. I bet your knowledge on this issue is comparable to every other issue you discuss.
Seems to still be greater than yours.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 04, 2024, 05:34:17 pm
I know virtually nothing but I'm positive I know way more than you...as always.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 04, 2024, 05:38:50 pm
I know virtually nothing but I'm positive I know way more than you...as always.
But you’ve just demonstrated that you don’t.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 04, 2024, 07:12:24 pm
"Expressly designed"?  You're making fact claims with no evidence, it sounds like conspiracy stuff.  They just had an election last year and there won't be another for a few years, there's no big reason to make laws just to pander.

What is the issue with needing parental consent for kids 15 and under when changing their pronouns at school?  Kids can't go on field trips without parental consent but they can change their pronouns/names?

lol you don’t understand the dynamics here. They aren’t pandering, this is who they are.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 04, 2024, 08:21:05 pm
Some people complained that I didn’t provide a link.  As if a link makes giving an 8 year old puberty blockers.  Anyone supporting this will be judged quite harshly be history.

New York father loses legal battle to stop his son, 8, from taking puberty blockers to change gender
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13030699/amp/gender-transition-custody-battle.html

Wild how you and the Daily Fail gloss over the part where the kid didn’t get puberty blockers and his living as his assigned at birth gender. Fuckin idiot.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 04, 2024, 08:21:50 pm
Pronouns have nothing to do with gay/straight.

lol are you kidding
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2024, 08:35:08 pm
Huh?  That doesn't answer my question.
I thought that I posted a link to it? From what I remember, the bill is mostly ineffectual, takes power away from parents... Prohibits things that aren't happening...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 04, 2024, 09:20:15 pm
I thought that I posted a link to it? From what I remember, the bill is mostly ineffectual, takes power away from parents... Prohibits things that aren't happening...

How does it take power away from parents?  What is the evidence these things aren't happening?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 04, 2024, 09:23:27 pm
How does it take power away from parents?  What is the evidence these things aren't happening?

The article states that Alberta banned bottom surgery for under 18.  That's not happening now.

If you want your child to undergo therapy for pre-transitioning you can't until they hit the age threshold.

And it's sold as parental rights.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 04, 2024, 10:53:13 pm
The article states that Alberta banned bottom surgery for under 18.  That's not happening now.

If you want your child to undergo therapy for pre-transitioning you can't until they hit the age threshold.

And it's sold as parental rights.

Ok I see what you're saying.  So then allowing it but only with parental consent would be more towards parental rights.

I think the law is balancing protecting kids with parental rights.  I think a teenager under 18 getting surgery to rearrange their genitals is insane.  I also think someone under 18 getting breast implants or a nose job or cheek/lip fillers is also insane.  I think similarly about puberty blockers and hormones.

I don't think kids are old enough to make those decisions and I can't imagine any good way to tell the ones who might be vs who aren't.  And these decisions could very well end up hurting their mental health in the long run just as much as it may help it for some.  They're too young, they're brand new to many things at this age including how they feel about sex, sexuality, their bodies etc.  It's the most confusing age for most people.  They're children, seems pretty common sense to me.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 05, 2024, 05:20:54 am
Ok I see what you're saying.  So then allowing it but only with parental consent would be more towards parental rights.

I think the law is balancing protecting kids with parental rights.  I think a teenager under 18 getting surgery to rearrange their genitals is insane.  I also think someone under 18 getting breast implants or a nose job or cheek/lip fillers is also insane.  I think similarly about puberty blockers and hormones.

I don't think kids are old enough to make those decisions and I can't imagine any good way to tell the ones who might be vs who aren't.  And these decisions could very well end up hurting their mental health in the long run just as much as it may help it for some.  They're too young, they're brand new to many things at this age including how they feel about sex, sexuality, their bodies etc.  It's the most confusing age for most people.  They're children, seems pretty common sense to me.

It sounds like you agree with me that the Alberta legislation is politics over practicality.

Banning things that aren't happening, taking away parental rights and saying the bill protects parental rights amounts to a big lie.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 05, 2024, 06:15:59 am
A small minority of extremely gullible halfwits--the sort to believe in vaccine and 15-minute-city conspiracies---have also been manipulated to think that schools are indoctrinating children to be gay. This caters to them and only harms the children they're pretending to want to protect.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 05, 2024, 08:23:45 am
It sounds like you agree with me that the Alberta legislation is politics over practicality.

Banning things that aren't happening, taking away parental rights and saying the bill protects parental rights amounts to a big lie.

No I never said that.  If you have evidence that no children in Alberta are receiving puberty blockers, hormones, or gender reassignment surgeries please post it.  Similar with kids asking to change their pronouns at school without parental consent etc

If you have quotes that the Alberta gov is framing this as a "parental rights bill" please post it.

If you don't agree with these policies then just say it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 05, 2024, 08:36:51 am
1. No I never said that.  If you have evidence that no children in Alberta are receiving puberty blockers, hormones, or gender reassignment surgeries please post it.

2.  Similar with kids asking to change their pronouns at school without parental consent etc

3. If you have quotes that the Alberta gov is framing this as a "parental rights bill" please post it.

4. If you don't agree with these policies then just say it.
1. It's in the Globe article I cited.
2. That is happening. 
3.  Multiple sources say that and the premier herself says it. Are you quibbling about that really?

"The UCP government will unveil a “parental rights” policy in the coming week, one that will attempt to walk the fine line between the rights of the parent and the rights of the growing child, Premier Danielle Smith said Saturday."


https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/alberta-government-to-unveil-parental-rights-policy-this-week-premier-says

4. I don't agree with them, but I'm always more concerned with the public sphere. That means I'm more concerned with the stupidity , dishonesty, cynicism and politics around it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 05, 2024, 11:33:56 am
1. It's in the Globe article I cited.
2. That is happening. 
3.  Multiple sources say that and the premier herself says it. Are you quibbling about that really?

"The UCP government will unveil a “parental rights” policy in the coming week, one that will attempt to walk the fine line between the rights of the parent and the rights of the growing child, Premier Danielle Smith said Saturday."

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/alberta-government-to-unveil-parental-rights-policy-this-week-premier-says

4. I don't agree with them, but I'm always more concerned with the public sphere. That means I'm more concerned with the stupidity , dishonesty, cynicism and politics around it.

1.  According to your G&M article, they claim bottom surgeries don't happen under 18.  Other things in the bill do happen, like top surgeries and puberty blockers and controversies happening in schools etc.  I also think the article is slanted against the proposals so I have doubts we're getting a fully accurate picture of things from it.

3.  The example you cited is the media framing it that way, not the Alberta gov.  The bill is trying to protect kids from making longterm life-altering choices they aren't mature enough to make while also giving parents some consent in schools.  I don't think the way you're framing things is accurate or they're pushing "a big lie".

4.  Yes there's probably political aspects to the bill.  That doesn't mean it's a bad bill.  I thought you want to talk about policy and get away from all the culture war stuff?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 05, 2024, 11:43:51 am
1.  According to your G&M article, they claim bottom surgeries don't happen under 18.  Other things in the bill do happen, like top surgeries and puberty blockers and controversies happening in schools etc.  I also think the article is slanted against the proposals so I have doubts we're getting a fully accurate picture of things from it.

2.  The example you cited is the media framing it that way, not the Alberta gov. 

3. The bill is trying to protect kids from making longterm life-altering choices they aren't mature enough to make while also giving parents some consent in schools.  I don't think the way you're framing things is accurate or they're pushing "a big lie".

4.  Yes there's probably political aspects to the bill.  That doesn't mean it's a bad bill.  I thought you want to talk about policy and get away from all the culture war stuff?

1. Oh, FFS.  It's the Globe & Mail and it's a news piece.  You're going to tell me that it's inaccurate ?  They said that all top surgeries are recorded, including cancer and breast modification which we know is a prevailing reason for these operations.  So that already says that the Alberta Government is being deceptive, at best.  What are you clinging to here ?    We went around on this subject several times - are you going to make me point to an accurate source over and over again, then say you doubt it ?  Because that's a great waste of my time, you must see that.

2. Ok.  I found a clip where she's clearly trying to walk a line here but she doesn't outright say it's about parental rights across the board.

https://youtu.be/Xho0Frp9j6c?si=-FB_6S7_UKYLywdF&t=17

3. It's chum for the far-right sharks of their party, couched in mealy-mouthed wording.  Stating that bottom surgery is banned may not be a 'lie' but it reveals that this is pure politics and helping people is secondary.

4. I actually do, because the culture war stuff is for lazy morons, and gets in the way of solutions.

I actually don't want to talk to you about this if you're going to make me say "Check the Globe article" over and over, then in the end say the Globe is wrong.  I have enough grief trying to get my kids to eat their vegetables.

You want to own the libs ?  Go at it... Enjoy your entertainments.

Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 05, 2024, 11:44:29 am
I didn't realize pronoun preference was an unalterable, life-changing decision.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 05, 2024, 11:59:49 am
And for the record, let's review what alt-populists say about progressives:

-They're emotional
-They're not practical
-They act like a mob
-They're not principled

Hypocrisy.  This is why I say the right is worse than the left on this.  The left is trying to catch up because they're fed up with culture warriors going after vulnerable people...
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 05, 2024, 12:07:02 pm
And for the record, let's review what alt-populists say about progressives:

-They're emotional
-They're not practical
-They act like a mob
-They're not principled

Hypocrisy.  This is why I say the right is worse than the left on this.  The left is trying to catch up because they're fed up with culture warriors going after vulnerable people...
Culture warriors on the right are just a reaction to one’s on the left.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 05, 2024, 12:18:26 pm
1.  According to your G&M article, they claim bottom surgeries don't happen under 18.  Other things in the bill do happen, like top surgeries and puberty blockers and controversies happening in schools etc.  I also think the article is slanted against the proposals so I have doubts we're getting a fully accurate picture of things from it.

In 2022, 26 under-18 Albertans had top surgery. In 2023, 22 under-18 Albertans had top surgery. The government has no idea how many of these were for gender dysphoria or for other reasons such as cancer or breast reduction/pain management. There were 2,700 claims for hormone treatments submitted in 2022/23 and again, there's no figures on how many were gender dysphoria or some other medical reason (eg endocrine disorders, growth disorders). Does that sound like something that requires government intervention?

Quote
2. The example you cited is the media framing it that way, not the Alberta gov.  The bill is trying to protect kids from making longterm life-altering choices they aren't mature enough to make while also giving parents some consent in schools.  I don't think the way you're framing things is accurate or they're pushing "a big lie".

Oh for god's sake "parental rights" has been the catchphrase/dogwhistle of the reactionary anti-trans movement for a long time.

Quote
During her keynote speech at the AGM, Smith smacked Alberta’s “extreme left” as she made a nod to the longtime social conservative push for more parental rights.

“Parents are the primary caregivers and educators,” she said at the time. “Regardless of how often the extreme left undermines the role of parents, I want you to know that parental rights and choice in your child’s education is and will continue to be a fundamental core principle of this party and this government, and we will never apologize for it.”

UCP members in attendance later approved a non-binding resolution calling for a requirement that teachers, schools and school boards get written consent from parents before using chosen names and pronouns of students.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/alberta-government-to-unveil-parental-rights-policy-this-week-premier-says
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 05, 2024, 12:19:27 pm
Culture warriors on the right are just a reaction to one’s on the left.

Yes we know you don't believe anyone on the right is responsible for their own actions. But I want to know: who is responsible for you posting dumb bullshit like that terrible Daily Mail article above?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 05, 2024, 01:02:31 pm
Yes we know you don't believe anyone on the right is responsible for their own actions. But I want to know: who is responsible for you posting dumb bullshit like that terrible Daily Mail article above?
Not an argument.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 05, 2024, 01:05:03 pm
Culture warriors on the right are just a reaction to one’s on the left.

The "you started it" angle.

Ok, well when do you want to say it 'started' because from my POV it 'started' getting bad when it emerged as a political sore point on the right.  I supposed you COULD say it 'started' when the medical community started doing this... ?  If I look for a discrete starting point it would be when it started coming into the political sphere.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 05, 2024, 01:41:15 pm
Not an argument.

Neither is "the left wing made me a Nazi!" Own your s**t.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 05, 2024, 01:41:57 pm
The "you started it" angle.

Ok, well when do you want to say it 'started' because from my POV it 'started' getting bad when it emerged as a political sore point on the right.  I supposed you COULD say it 'started' when the medical community started doing this... ?  If I look for a discrete starting point it would be when it started coming into the political sphere.

I've pointed out before this only really became a political issue when the right wing needed a new creepy fixation after they got their way on abortion.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 05, 2024, 01:45:18 pm
I've pointed out before this only really became a political issue when the right wing needed a new creepy fixation after they got their way on abortion.
Nah.  It became an issue when you forced others to join in in your insanity.  It became an issue when you started to involve young children.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 05, 2024, 01:45:56 pm
Neither is "the left wing made me a Nazi!" Own your s**t.
You’ve become unhinged and nonsensical.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 05, 2024, 03:05:32 pm
Nah.  It became an issue when you forced others to join in in your insanity.  It became an issue when you started to involve young children.

Its wild that with all the problems in the world the right constantly has to invent things to be mad about. Probably because most of the real material problems are caused by conservative policies.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 05, 2024, 03:05:49 pm
You’ve become unhinged and nonsensical.

No you're just getting stupider, but you blame everyone but yourself for that too.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 05, 2024, 03:17:54 pm
Its wild that with all the problems in the world the right constantly has to invent things to be mad about. Probably because most of the real material problems are caused by conservative policies.
Projection.  All the problem in the world and libtards have to lose their minds over parental consent to their children’s names etc.  yeah conservatives, like the housing crisis here, and the border crisis in America!  😂😂😂
All caused by libtard policy.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 05, 2024, 03:29:06 pm
Projection.  All the problem in the world and libtards have to lose their minds over parental consent to their children’s names etc. 

Who is making the laws requiring parental consent again?

Quote
yeah conservatives, like the housing crisis here, and the border crisis in America!  😂😂😂
All caused by libtard policy.

The root cause of the housing crisis is conservative NIMBY policies, the root cause of mass migration are conservative imperialists propping up authoritarian regimes and domestic austerity measures that leave immigration systems underfunded and stuck with massive backlogs, you truly are retarded.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 05, 2024, 03:50:48 pm
Who is making the laws requiring parental consent again?
It's a law that follows every other parental consent when it comes to children and school.

The root cause of the housing crisis is conservative NIMBY policies, the root cause of mass migration are conservative imperialists propping up authoritarian regimes and domestic austerity measures that leave immigration systems underfunded and stuck with massive backlogs, you truly are retarded.
Complete and utter bullsh*t.  The housing crisis is a result of a record level of new citizens causing a record level of demand for housing, when the government knew that supply would never be able to keep up.  The border crisis is a result of the federal government not enforcing the border and immigration law, with libtard sanctuary cities and states, encouraging migrants to come to their jurisdictions, in direct violation of federal law.  It's funny when a full on retard calls me retarded!  LOL
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 05, 2024, 04:01:46 pm
It's a law that follows every other parental consent when it comes to children and school.

No, this goes much further than requiring parental consent to take a kid on a field trip or something. This is a snitch law.

Quote
Complete and utter bullsh*t.  The housing crisis is a result of a record level of new citizens causing a record level of demand for housing, when the government knew that supply would never be able to keep up.  The border crisis is a result of the federal government not enforcing the border and immigration law, with libtard sanctuary cities and states, encouraging migrants to come to their jurisdictions, in direct violation of federal law.  It's funny when a full on retard calls me retarded!  LOL

lol what a bunch of garbage. Just about every Western country is dealing with a housing affordability crisis, not just Canada. Th eissue being no one has been building enough housing. As for immigration, those are just meaningless talking points. The Biden administration has detained hundreds of thousands of migrants and deported hundreds of thousands more, but somehow they aren't enforcing the law? Moronic.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 05, 2024, 05:10:00 pm
Is it not a red flag when "parental rights" require the notwithstanding clause before governments can force them on us?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 05, 2024, 09:41:31 pm
Is it not a red flag when "parental rights" require the notwithstanding clause before governments can force them on us?
No child should be spayed or neutered.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 05, 2024, 10:05:14 pm
No child should be spayed or neutered.

The two mutts that spawned you should have been.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 05, 2024, 10:09:26 pm
The two mutts that spawned you should have been.
Leave kids alone groomer.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 05, 2024, 10:19:45 pm
Leave kids alone groomer.

You’re as clever and insightful as bumper sticker.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 05, 2024, 10:50:17 pm
1. Oh, FFS.  It's the Globe & Mail and it's a news piece.  You're going to tell me that it's inaccurate ?  They said that all top surgeries are recorded, including cancer and breast modification which we know is a prevailing reason for these operations.  So that already says that the Alberta Government is being deceptive, at best.  What are you clinging to here ?    We went around on this subject several times - are you going to make me point to an accurate source over and over again, then say you doubt it ?  Because that's a great waste of my time, you must see that.

2. Ok.  I found a clip where she's clearly trying to walk a line here but she doesn't outright say it's about parental rights across the board.

https://youtu.be/Xho0Frp9j6c?si=-FB_6S7_UKYLywdF&t=17

3. It's chum for the far-right sharks of their party, couched in mealy-mouthed wording.  Stating that bottom surgery is banned may not be a 'lie' but it reveals that this is pure politics and helping people is secondary.

4. I actually do, because the culture war stuff is for lazy morons, and gets in the way of solutions.

I actually don't want to talk to you about this if you're going to make me say "Check the Globe article" over and over, then in the end say the Globe is wrong.  I have enough grief trying to get my kids to eat their vegetables.

You want to own the libs ?  Go at it... Enjoy your entertainments.

1.  I just looked at the authors' twitter and quickly found a bunch of pro-LGBT tweets from her.  Her bias seems clear so no I don't give her the benefit of the doubt to be objective about this story:

https://twitter.com/ZosiaBielski/status/1737100029125419056

https://twitter.com/ZosiaBielski/status/1721972865124143487

The Globe article is presenting info on one side of the argument, the medical arguments against the bill.  I'm not saying what the info they present is false, I'm saying the article seems slanted and trying to editorialize, which isn't a journalists job (unless it's an opinion piece).  I think the Globe is the best paper in the country, but I'm not going to say 100% of their articles or journalists are 100% objective 100% of the time.  The article presents facts that are helpful in our discussion and am glad you posted it, but I'm not going to treat the article as the totality of all possible stats and arguments for or against the bill because they only spoke to 3 medical experts for the sake of the article, and may have chosen experts that confirmed the bias of the journalist writing it.

Let's hear from a range of medical professionals about the potential for harm/regret for children and teens taking puberty blockers, hormones, getting top surgeries etc.  Definitely nothing about these things in the article.

2.. Here she's taking questions about the bill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpUNMoldW5k

3.  Sure, based on the G&M article i can agree in the probable unnecessary need to ban the bottom surgery and politicizing of that and keeping some context from people.  From first glance though, I still agree with most of the bill on the whole.

4.  I get the fatigue over the culture war stuff, but for better or worse a lot of people are pushing many cultural changes in our society, from both the left and right, and we need to deal with these changes, and either agree and accept them (or ignore them, which acts as a tacit approval of the changes) or push back against them.  We're sort of in the middle of another 1960's right now, which was also a culture war.  We're all free to react to the culture war any way we wish including you.  My own opinion is that our culture is important, how we treat kids and LGBT people is important, our laws are important, how we deal with race/gender in employment and school admissions is important, how we deal with problematic parts of our history/culture is important, the messages and agendas we push in the media and our schools are important etc. so my choice is to have an opinion on these issues and voice what I think is right/wrong.  If we were all to ignore it then the changes the loud fringe are implementing don't get challenged and we have to live with them for better or worse.

Also, I originally didn't see the G&M article you posted, so I had to go back and find it and read it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 05, 2024, 11:06:58 pm
In 2022, 26 under-18 Albertans had top surgery. In 2023, 22 under-18 Albertans had top surgery. The government has no idea how many of these were for gender dysphoria or for other reasons such as cancer or breast reduction/pain management. There were 2,700 claims for hormone treatments submitted in 2022/23 and again, there's no figures on how many were gender dysphoria or some other medical reason (eg endocrine disorders, growth disorders). Does that sound like something that requires government intervention?

What does it matter if it affects 1000 kids or 50 kids or 50,000 kids?  These things should either be allowed or not because they're affecting children, good or bad.

I don't think you actually care, the "this doesn't affect many people" argument is just used as an excuse and a tactic to try to delegitimatize any legislation or policy limiting it because people like yourself know that keeping the status quo is good for your political agenda.  Well tough cookie.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 05, 2024, 11:29:14 pm
The "you started it" angle.

Ok, well when do you want to say it 'started' because from my POV it 'started' getting bad when it emerged as a political sore point on the right.  I supposed you COULD say it 'started' when the medical community started doing this... ?  If I look for a discrete starting point it would be when it started coming into the political sphere.

Personally I don't really care "who started it".  But i'm glad I live in a society where some people strongly question or even put up resistance to things like giving children puberty blockers and hormones.  Most progressives think they're the only ones who are compassionate and everyone who disagrees with them are evil.

Side note:  Ironic that the journalist from the G&M article posts this tweet:  https://twitter.com/nicoleschmidt94/status/1732463232890056790

"I was on the pill for 5 years and my experience wasn’t terrible, but when I stopped taking it I felt like someone turned the saturation up on my life. It got me thinking more about what the pill does to our brain and body, and why there are so few alternatives."

Does she not understand that messing with hormones for trans people/kids can affect them emotionally/psychologically/physically in ways that may not always be positive?  Where's the opinion of medical experts on that in her article?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 06, 2024, 06:03:33 am
Danielle Smith admits the legislation wasn't based on reality, but on a fantasy they have ginned up to make gullible halfwits think it's necessary so it can be a political wedge issue. Sort of like walkable cities.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/premier-smith-says-alberta-s-gender-identity-policies-are-based-on-a-concern-about-what-will-happen-1.6756959?taid=65c1aec7093fb00001fc07ee&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 06, 2024, 09:19:14 am
What does it matter if it affects 1000 kids or 50 kids or 50,000 kids?  These things should either be allowed or not because they're affecting children, good or bad.


Why does it matter if the entire justification for this legislation is bogus? Are you shitting me?
Quote
I don't think you actually care, the "this doesn't affect many people" argument is just used as an excuse and a tactic to try to delegitimatize any legislation or policy limiting it because people like yourself know that keeping the status quo is good for your political agenda.  Well tough cookie.

But cooking up fake panics over things that aren’t happening for political gain is ok in your books.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 06, 2024, 09:39:32 am
Why does it matter if the entire justification for this legislation is bogus? Are you shitting me?
But cooking up fake panics over things that aren’t happening for political gain is ok in your books.

Bottom surgeries aren't happening, we've already established that, so sure that may be for political spectacle.   Other things in the bill are happening.

If you don't think any of it is happening then you and everyone else including protestors can ignore the bill as irrelevant and have no issue with it passing since the impact is zero and chalk it up to political blustering.   Problem solved.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 06, 2024, 09:46:36 am
Bottom surgeries aren't happening, we've already established that, so sure that may be for political spectacle.   Other things in the bill are happening.

If you don't think any of it is happening then you and everyone else including protestors can ignore the bill as irrelevant and have no issue with it passing since the impact is zero and chalk it up to political blustering.   Problem solved.

I don’t think whipping up hatred against marginalized communities, health care professionals and teachers is something we should ignore.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 06, 2024, 11:35:33 am
I don’t think whipping up hatred against marginalized communities, health care professionals and teachers is something we should ignore.
I don't think whipping up hatred against people that are concerned for the wellbeing of children is something that we should ignore either. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 06, 2024, 11:40:01 am
I don’t think whipping up hatred against marginalized communities, health care professionals and teachers is something we should ignore.

Whipping up hatred?  Lol

But we know you have no issue ignoring doctors giving kids hormones, puberty blockers etc.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 06, 2024, 11:43:03 am
Whipping up hatred?  Lol

But we know you have no issue ignoring doctors giving kids hormones, puberty blockers etc.

I think that’s a decision that should be left up to parents, their children and their doctors not elected officials.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 06, 2024, 11:43:21 am
Whipping up hatred?  Lol

But we know you have no issue ignoring doctors giving kids hormones, puberty blockers etc.
Yes, your BS whips up hatred against doctors and teachers who aren't doing what you say they are. And your only excuse is you're extraordinarily gullible when you read the internet
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 06, 2024, 11:45:18 am
I don't think whipping up hatred against people that are concerned for the wellbeing of children is something that we should ignore either.

You think kids are literally the property of parents, you don’t give a sh!t about their well being any more than any of your fellow conservative troglodytes do. It’s about control and it’s about undermining both the healthcare and education systems.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 06, 2024, 11:50:25 am
Whipping up hatred?  Lol

But we know you have no issue ignoring doctors giving kids hormones, puberty blockers etc.
Whipping up hatred = anyone that disagrees.  And then in another thread he complains about any disagreement with Israel being labelled antisemitic.  He has no self awareness! 😂😂😂
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 06, 2024, 11:57:34 am
You think kids are literally the property of parents, you don’t give a sh!t about their well being any more than any of your fellow conservative troglodytes do. It’s about control and it’s about undermining both the healthcare and education systems.

Some children need to be protected from ideological wingnuts like yourself.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 06, 2024, 12:02:31 pm
Some children need to be protected from ideological wingnuts like yourself.
At what point did you realize that you were more of an expert on gender issues than the medical profession?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 06, 2024, 12:04:50 pm
At what point did you realize that you were more of an expert on gender issues than the medical profession?
Children shouldn’t be spayed or neutered.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 06, 2024, 12:10:07 pm
Children shouldn’t be spayed or neutered.
Even if it might save their life? Maybe doctors should decide and not internet retards.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 06, 2024, 12:21:20 pm
1.  I just looked at the authors' twitter and quickly found a bunch of pro-LGBT tweets from her.  Her bias seems clear so no I don't give her the benefit of the doubt to be objective about this story:

https://twitter.com/ZosiaBielski/status/1737100029125419056

https://twitter.com/ZosiaBielski/status/1721972865124143487

The Globe article is presenting info on one side of the argument, the medical arguments against the bill.  I'm not saying what the info they present is false, I'm saying the article seems slanted and trying to editorialize, which isn't a journalists job (unless it's an opinion piece).  I think the Globe is the best paper in the country, but I'm not going to say 100% of their articles or journalists are 100% objective 100% of the time.  The article presents facts that are helpful in our discussion and am glad you posted it, but I'm not going to treat the article as the totality of all possible stats and arguments for or against the bill because they only spoke to 3 medical experts for the sake of the article, and may have chosen experts that confirmed the bias of the journalist writing it.

Let's hear from a range of medical professionals about the potential for harm/regret for children and teens taking puberty blockers, hormones, getting top surgeries etc.  Definitely nothing about these things in the article.

2.. Here she's taking questions about the bill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpUNMoldW5k

3.  Sure, based on the G&M article i can agree in the probable unnecessary need to ban the bottom surgery and politicizing of that and keeping some context from people.  From first glance though, I still agree with most of the bill on the whole.

4.  I get the fatigue over the culture war stuff, but for better or worse a lot of people are pushing many cultural changes in our society, from both the left and right, and we need to deal with these changes, and either agree and accept them (or ignore them, which acts as a tacit approval of the changes) or push back against them.  We're sort of in the middle of another 1960's right now, which was also a culture war.  We're all free to react to the culture war any way we wish including you.  My own opinion is that our culture is important, how we treat kids and LGBT people is important, our laws are important, how we deal with race/gender in employment and school admissions is important, how we deal with problematic parts of our history/culture is important, the messages and agendas we push in the media and our schools are important etc. so my choice is to have an opinion on these issues and voice what I think is right/wrong.  If we were all to ignore it then the changes the loud fringe are implementing don't get challenged and we have to live with them for better or worse.

Also, I originally didn't see the G&M article you posted, so I had to go back and find it and read it.
Personally I don't really care "who started it".  But i'm glad I live in a society where some people strongly question or even put up resistance to things like giving children puberty blockers and hormones.  Most progressives think they're the only ones who are compassionate and everyone who disagrees with them are evil.

Side note:  Ironic that the journalist from the G&M article posts this tweet:  https://twitter.com/nicoleschmidt94/status/1732463232890056790

"I was on the pill for 5 years and my experience wasn’t terrible, but when I stopped taking it I felt like someone turned the saturation up on my life. It got me thinking more about what the pill does to our brain and body, and why there are so few alternatives."

Does she not understand that messing with hormones for trans people/kids can affect them emotionally/psychologically/physically in ways that may not always be positive?  Where's the opinion of medical experts on that in her article?

You're understanding of objectivity is strange to me.
This person is reporting on whether aspects of the bill are effective or not. The aspect that I question and that you agree with is about whether bottom surgeries happen. Opinion doesn't enter into it. It's a fact or nothing. If the person says that bottom surgeries actually happen a lot in Canada, than they are lying. We are lucky that there are some facts that we can use to establish the framework of discussion at play.

Of course this person has opinions, we all do. Do you expect them to inject their experiences with hormones into this? Isn't that a complete lack of objectivity? And yet you question whether bottom surgeries are happening based on their tweets?

Starting to wonder if I was brought up in a very strange environment, and it may have something to do with our family religion. We spent a lot of time discussing morality, which is a framework of objectivity, to determine whether we were taking the right approach to this or that decision in life.

Of course I question my own subjectivity, constantly. And since this topic is full of subjective angles. It's very difficult.

At this point, even the experts have their subjectivity pretty clear. Clear. But this article seems to go down to the factual foundations of the questions. You should really see such content as a gift, in the face of difficult topics like this.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 06, 2024, 12:21:58 pm
Some children need to be protected from ideological wingnuts like yourself.

You should be more worried about the damage gullible retards like you are going to society at large.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 06, 2024, 12:24:02 pm
Yes, your BS whips up hatred against doctors and teachers who aren't doing what you say they are. And your only excuse is you're extraordinarily gullible when you read the internet

They don't even have the medical professionals to perform many of these procedures in AB even for adults, they're sent out of province to places like Montreal.   Smith also said they're going to work to get medical professionals in province so adults who want the surgeries don't have to travel. What a hateful anti-trans piece of crap.  Speaking of gullible...

Quote
Smith indicated that she hopes to expand local access to surgical care for trans adults — saving them a trip to Quebec.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/doctors-warn-new-rules-on-alberta-trans-medical-care-will-increase-risk-of-suicide-and-self-harm

https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/dvi/Page15676.aspx

Quote
In the same year, nearly 2,700 claims were submitted for non-surgical interventions, or hormone treatment, by minors, although the province said it’s unknown how many of those are for gender dysphoria and how many are for other medical conditions, such as cancer treatment or endocrine disorders.

“It is estimated that treatments for reasons other than gender dysphoria represent the majority of claims,” the province said.

And what about hormones?  Are trans children receiving them?  Are some under 16 on puberty blockers? 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 06, 2024, 12:24:42 pm
Whipping up hatred = anyone that disagrees.  And then in another thread he complains about any disagreement with Israel being labelled antisemitic.  He has no self awareness! 😂😂😂

No it’s not “anyone who disagrees”. It’s a specific subset of bigots, of which you are one. Reasonable people can have differences of opinion but the mouth-breathing slime balls crying “groomer” deserve worse than scorn.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 06, 2024, 12:41:46 pm
Even if it might save their life?
Would you allow a child to get a tattoo or piercing if they threaten suicide?  99% of children with gender dysphoria outgrow it.  It's impossible to know which won't.  That's why we should err on the side of caution and not pursue life changing irreversible surgery or drugs.  That used to be the standard regarding everything, until this new insanity popped up a few years ago.  None of this sh*t has been studied, let alone studied long term.  That's why countries in Europe have but a stop to it.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 06, 2024, 12:42:51 pm
And what about hormones?  Are trans children receiving them?  Are some under 16 on puberty blockers?

Is your stance that no one under 18 should with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria should receive hormones or puberty blockers whatsoever?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 06, 2024, 12:47:36 pm
 ???
Quote
When asked by a reporter if the policies could actually limit the rights of parents who support their child's pursuit of a gender transition, Poilievre said, "No."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pierre-poilievre-danielle-smith-transgender-1.7106283

This is part of Poilievre accusing TRUDEAU of misrepresenting the issue.

Starting to get it?

Nobody wants to talk about the truth.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 06, 2024, 12:48:14 pm
Even if it might save their life? Maybe doctors should decide and not internet retards.
Yes, absolutely.  You’re potentially causing irreversible damage.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 06, 2024, 12:49:17 pm
???
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pierre-poilievre-danielle-smith-transgender-1.7106283

This is part of Poilievre accusing TRUDEAU of misrepresenting the issue.

Starting to get it?

Nobody wants to talk about the truth.
How does parental consent limit parents rights?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 06, 2024, 12:50:27 pm
Yes, absolutely.  You’re potentially causing irreversible damage.
So cancer treatments should be forbidden because you saw a meme?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 06, 2024, 12:52:38 pm
So cancer treatments should be forbidden because you saw a meme?
That doesn’t make any sense.  As I’ve already said, 99% of children suffering from gender dysphoria grow out of it.  There is no way to determine which ones. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 06, 2024, 12:54:47 pm
You should be more worried about the damage gullible retards like you are going to society at large.

You're the only one on here who actually thought I was black.

Don't you have some classic books to ban, people to get fired, and minorities to tokenize?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 06, 2024, 12:58:46 pm
???
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pierre-poilievre-danielle-smith-transgender-1.7106283

This is part of Poilievre accusing TRUDEAU of misrepresenting the issue.

Starting to get it?

Nobody wants to talk about the truth.

I don't expect to get truth from a politician, including Smith.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 06, 2024, 02:17:14 pm
That doesn’t make any sense.  As I’ve already said, 99% of children suffering from gender dysphoria grow out of it.  There is no way to determine which ones.

This is a totally made up statistic lol
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 06, 2024, 02:18:36 pm
You're the only one on here who actually thought I was black.

Don't you have some classic books to ban, people to get fired, and minorities to tokenize?

yes that’s why I persistently mocked you for pretending to be black, because I thought you were. You’re getting dumber by the minute.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 06, 2024, 02:22:23 pm
This is a totally made up statistic lol
😂😂😂

4 out of 5 kids who question gender ‘grow out of it’: Transgender expert
https://nypost.com/2023/02/22/four-out-of-five-kids-who-question-their-gender-grow-out-of-it-trans-expert/amp/
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 06, 2024, 02:23:08 pm
Permanent solutions to temporary problems, the new libtard way!
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 06, 2024, 02:48:11 pm
How does parental consent limit parents rights?

I guess you haven't been reading.

Graham... More examples..

The fact is that if you want your kid to transition, to start taking therapy at 15, you now are unable to do so.

Before to call this a parental rights bill is inaccurate at best
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 06, 2024, 02:55:42 pm
😂😂😂

4 out of 5 kids who question gender ‘grow out of it’: Transgender expert
https://nypost.com/2023/02/22/four-out-of-five-kids-who-question-their-gender-grow-out-of-it-trans-expert/amp/


lol yea that’s a made up statistic. “Questioning gender” is not a medical diagnosis dumbfuck.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 06, 2024, 03:00:14 pm

lol yea that’s a made up statistic. “Questioning gender” is not a medical diagnosis dumbfuck.
What’s the statistic then?  Obviously some children grow out of it.  How can you determine which ones?  How do you determine that you’re not giving permanent surgery of drugs to a child that would outgrow their dysphoria?  Answer the question groomer.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 06, 2024, 03:04:42 pm
It's like you think medical professionals just got their job because they applied for it and were lucky.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 06, 2024, 03:06:50 pm
It's like you think medical professionals just got their job because they applied for it and we're lucky.
Not an answer.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 06, 2024, 03:12:42 pm
What’s the statistic then?  Obviously some children grow out of it.  How can you determine which ones?  How do you determine that you’re not giving permanent surgery of drugs to a child that would outgrow their dysphoria?  Answer the question groomer.

This is not a serious question you simply cannot be this ignorant
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 06, 2024, 03:20:03 pm
This is not a serious question you simply cannot be this ignorant
It's a fact.  Many children outgrow these issues.  What percentage is it if you don't agree with my source?  How do you determine which child will outgrow their gender dysphoria and which won't?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 06, 2024, 03:21:41 pm
Why are you people ok with potentially destroying the rest of the life of a child that might outgrow their dysphoria because you can't wait for a child that won't to wait a few years and make the decision for themselves as an adult?  That is the most f**ed up position I've ever heard of.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 06, 2024, 03:28:45 pm
Why are you people ok with potentially destroying the rest of the life of a child that might outgrow their dysphoria because you can't wait for a child that won't to wait a few years and make the decision for themselves as an adult?  That is the most f**ed up position I've ever heard of.

There's the aspect that it could be a window that's missed to avoid puberty

What's the threshold of regret for elective surgery before you deny it to all?


Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 06, 2024, 03:48:49 pm
It's a fact.  Many children outgrow these issues.  What percentage is it if you don't agree with my source?  How do you determine which child will outgrow their gender dysphoria and which won't?


What’s a fact? That you don’t know the difference between “questioning gender” and a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 07, 2024, 12:35:49 am
yes that’s why I persistently mocked you for pretending to be black, because I thought you were. You’re getting dumber by the minute.

No you only started doing that when I finally revealed that I wasn't black and it chapped your bottom.  Nice try though.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 07, 2024, 01:17:46 am
You're understanding of objectivity is strange to me.
This person is reporting on whether aspects of the bill are effective or not. The aspect that I question and that you agree with is about whether bottom surgeries happen. Opinion doesn't enter into it. It's a fact or nothing. If the person says that bottom surgeries actually happen a lot in Canada, than they are lying. We are lucky that there are some facts that we can use to establish the framework of discussion at play.

I'm not questioning specific stats the journalist included.  Subjectivity in journalism isn't just about what you choose to include in a story, it's also about what you choose to leave out.  Picking only 3 medical experts with views that conveniently align with the bias of the author and calling the title of the article "Medical experts warn Danielle Smith’s restrictions on gender affirming care will harm vulnerable youth in Alberta" makes it sound like there's some kind of consensus and these 3 experts represent the views of all medical professionals on the subject in the province.  I'd like to hear some other opinions and counterpoints from other doctors.  There's at least 2 sides to every story/issue.

Quote
Of course this person has opinions, we all do. Do you expect them to inject their experiences with hormones into this? Isn't that a complete lack of objectivity? And yet you question whether bottom surgeries are happening based on their tweets?

I never questioned the part in the article that says whether bottom surgeries are happening, i've already said that i accept that claim in the article.  I assume they aren't just making up stats.

Unless it's an editorial piece, journalists are supposed to be objective, their personal biases and opinions on a story are irrelevant.  Their job is to report things happening in the world, not push agendas.

Quote
At this point, even the experts have their subjectivity pretty clear. Clear. But this article seems to go down to the factual foundations of the questions. You should really see such content as a gift, in the face of difficult topics like this.

I value the stats/facts in the article and haven't said otherwise.  But I want to hear other arguments, that's all i'm saying.  And as I've said, this article only represents the opinions of 3 experts, not the entire medical field.  I want to hear more.  This is a controversial topic so I want a debate between doctors of different fields, not a spoonfeeding.  They can then present all the facts and opinions for and against all the medical parts in the bill.

Btw i'm also not saying I agree with 100% of the policies announced.  It's an all-encompassing bill on different trans youth issues, from healthcare for minors to parental consent in schools to trans participation in sports.  You've shown that the part on bottom surgery is redundant and probably there for politics (in whole or in part) and I accept your argument on that.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 07, 2024, 01:40:10 am
No you only started doing that when I finally revealed that I wasn't black and it chapped your bottom.  Nice try though.

That never happened I knew you were lying from the jump. Pathetic that you have to try and make stuff up.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 07, 2024, 05:50:02 am
As I recall, he was mocked from the start by everyone for trying to claim he was black, but he didn't realize everyone was laughing at him. Sort of a common theme around here.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 07, 2024, 06:14:37 am
1. it's also about what you choose to leave out.  Picking only 3 medical experts with views that conveniently align with the bias of the author and calling the title of the article "Medical experts warn Danielle Smith’s restrictions on gender affirming care will harm vulnerable youth in Alberta" makes it sound like there's some kind of consensus and these 3 experts represent the views of all medical professionals on the subject in the province.  I'd like to hear some other opinions and counterpoints from other doctors.  There's at least 2 sides to every story/issue.

2. I never questioned the part in the article that says whether bottom surgeries are happening, i've already said that i accept that claim in the article.  I assume they aren't just making up stats.

3.   I want to hear more.  This is a controversial topic so I want a debate between doctors of different fields, not a spoonfeeding.  They can then present all the facts and opinions for and against all the medical parts in the bill.

4. Btw i'm also not saying I agree with 100% of the policies announced.   
1. If the perponderance of expert views say it's harmful then they have no obligation to seek out minority opinions.  I don't know that that is the case.  But one of the problems with climate change coverage was exactly that they would seek out "both sides" even though the opposition was a fringe viewpoint.

2. Then you concur that the legislation has a fake front.

3. What if there is no more ?  There are points in the article that support parts of the legislation.  If you value objectivity why do you want them to insert more than they have ?

4. Nor am I 100% opposed.  I spoke to a family member about how they do this in their school within TDSB.  Guess what ?  It's case-by-case.  They will tiptoe around a parent who is against their child's new identity.and tell the parents when it's no problem.  They don't need a political campaign to direct them.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 07, 2024, 08:03:51 am

What’s a fact? That you don’t know the difference between “questioning gender” and a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria?
You still won’t acknowledge facts.  You have to because your position on this issue is completely illogical, and based on what can only be referred to as a religious type view.  You’re willing to permanently change children who would otherwise grow out of their dysphoria in order to “treat” a smaller percentage of children that won’t, just because you can’t wait for them to wait a few years and make the decision on their own as a young adult.  This is barbaric.  You’re a f**king monster.  All of you are.  You should be locked up for years for this insane behaviour.

Quote
On average 80% of children change their minds and do not continue into adulthood as transgender
https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-
minds/
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 07, 2024, 10:05:42 am
1. You’re willing to permanently change children who would otherwise grow out of their dysphoria in order to “treat” a smaller percentage of children that won’t, just because you can’t wait for them to wait a few years and make the decision on their own as a young adult.   
1. The question is what does permanent mean, how many are impacted and what are the impacts of waiting ?

It's just as religious to be against having these discussions as it is to be in favour of them.

The knee-jerk reaction is for a person to imagine a broken child who made a mistake in transitioning, and it is never to imagine a broken child who wasn't able to transition soon enough right ?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 07, 2024, 10:08:32 am
You still won’t acknowledge facts.  You have to because your position on this issue is completely illogical, and based on what can only be referred to as a religious type view.  You’re willing to permanently change children who would otherwise grow out of their dysphoria in order to “treat” a smaller percentage of children that won’t, just because you can’t wait for them to wait a few years and make the decision on their own as a young adult.  This is barbaric.  You’re a f**king monster.  All of you are.  You should be locked up for years for this insane behaviour.

lol all this pants pissing over an issue that doesn’t even effect you and about which you know next to nothing. You certainly have no idea what I think about this but I’m not gonna waste my time correcting someone who just parrots lines he’s read on social media in lieu of actual critical thought.


Quote
https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-
minds/

Again there’s no distinction here between children with consistent, acute gender dysphoria, kids who socially transitioned, and kids who just acted more masculine or feminine than their assigned gender. How is this so hard for you people to comprehend?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 07, 2024, 10:09:52 am
1. The question is what does permanent mean, how many are impacted and what are the impacts of waiting ?

It's just as religious to be against having these discussions as it is to be in favour of them.

The knee-jerk reaction is for a person to imagine a broken child who made a mistake in transitioning, and it is never to imagine a broken child who wasn't able to transition soon enough right ?

Yeah it’s telling how they conflate things like surgery with hormones and puberty blockers. That’s intentional.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 07, 2024, 10:13:21 am
Yeah it’s telling how they conflate things like surgery with hormones and puberty blockers. That’s intentional.

You can tell if it is if they repeat it after it being explained. 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 07, 2024, 10:32:09 am
That never happened I knew you were lying from the jump. Pathetic that you have to try and make stuff up.

Liar
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 07, 2024, 10:42:28 am
As I recall, he was mocked from the start by everyone for trying to claim he was black, but he didn't realize everyone was laughing at him. Sort of a common theme around here.

Excuse me?  What a bunch of nonsense.  I'm putting you on ignore.   It's super weird that you flipped a switch and turned into a troll persona like a year or 2 ago.

Black Dog is straight up lying.  Lies about this and Paw Patrol.   What a manipulative gaslighting weirdo.  Close to ignore as well.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 07, 2024, 10:44:22 am
Excuse me?  What a bunch of nonsense.  I'm putting you on ignore.   It's super weird that you flipped a switch and turned into a troll persona like a year or 2 ago.

Black Dog is straight up lying.  Lies about this and Paw Patrol.   What a manipulative gaslighting weirdo.  Close to ignore as well.
I'm with you.  Bubber has turned into a complete troll, posts nothing of value.  Black Dog isn't quite a troll, but total sociopath, gaslighting wierdo for sure.  They're both close to ignore for me as well.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 07, 2024, 11:02:03 am
You're only just starting to realize people don't have respect for you and think you're idiots? Good Lord, it's been obvious to everyone else for years!

"Lies about PawPatrol!" 😂

Queefer: "I exposed you and your butt buddy as fags and it was awesome!"
Also Queefer: "Wah! You're a troll for making fun of me for pretending I am black "
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 07, 2024, 11:16:11 am
You're only just starting to realize people don't have respect for you and think you're idiots? Good Lord, it's been obvious to everyone else for years!

"Lies about PawPatrol!" 😂

Queefer: "I exposed you and your butt buddy as fags and it was awesome!"
Also Queefer: "Wah! You're a troll for making fun of me for pretending I am black "
Why do you have those statements in quotes when that's not what he said.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 07, 2024, 11:21:15 am
How did what he said differ?

Oh...it didn't?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 07, 2024, 11:32:55 am
How did what he said differ?

Oh...it didn't?
I say butt buddy, he doesn't.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 07, 2024, 11:43:59 am
True, you are indistinguishable
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 07, 2024, 12:35:31 pm
Liar

Prove it, loser.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 07, 2024, 12:39:26 pm
Excuse me?  What a bunch of nonsense.  I'm putting you on ignore.   It's super weird that you flipped a switch and turned into a troll persona like a year or 2 ago.

Black Dog is straight up lying.  Lies about this and Paw Patrol.   What a manipulative gaslighting weirdo.  Close to ignore as well.

It's funny you're having a fuckin tantrum and lying about your stupid "I'm black" bit all because I pointed out that the things you're all worked up about aren't happening. Such a pathetic person.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 07, 2024, 12:40:26 pm
I'm with you.  Bubber has turned into a complete troll, posts nothing of value.  Black Dog isn't quite a troll, but total sociopath, gaslighting wierdo for sure.  They're both close to ignore for me as well.

If you put us on ignore, who would be left to give you the attention you so desperately crave? Waldo? Certainly not your dad.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 08, 2024, 07:12:33 pm
As Kids, They Thought They Were Trans. They No Longer Do.

Quote
At no point during her medical or surgical transition, Powell says, did anyone ask her about the reasons behind her gender dysphoria or her depression. At no point was she asked about her sexual orientation. And at no point was she asked about any previous trauma, and so neither the therapists nor the doctors ever learned that she’d been sexually abused as a child.

Quote
Transgender activists have pushed their own ideological extremism, especially by pressing for a treatment orthodoxy that has faced increased scrutiny in recent years. Under that model of care, clinicians are expected to affirm a young person’s assertion of gender identity and even provide medical treatment before, or even without, exploring other possible sources of distress.

Quote
Many who think there needs to be a more cautious approach — including well-meaning liberal parents, doctors and people who have undergone gender transition and subsequently regretted their procedures — have been attacked as anti-trans and intimidated into silencing their concerns.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/02/opinion/transgender-children-gender-dysphoria.html
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 08, 2024, 09:42:42 pm
You're only just starting to realize people don't have respect for you and think you're idiots? Good Lord, it's been obvious to everyone else for years!

"Lies about PawPatrol!" 😂

Queefer: "I exposed you and your butt buddy as fags and it was awesome!"
Also Queefer: "Wah! You're a troll for making fun of me for pretending I am black "

They’re actually piece of sh!t as human beings.  If there were actually moderation, they would have been banned for their attempted doxing and homophobia.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 09, 2024, 01:39:43 pm
As Kids, They Thought They Were Trans. They No Longer Do.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/02/opinion/transgender-children-gender-dysphoria.html

This article was already posted and given a thorough debunking.Try and keep up.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 09, 2024, 05:45:29 pm
All 5 starters are biological men!  All 5!  All the biological women had to sit on the bench.  I guess if you’re a biological woman and are interested in volleyball, you’ll need to go to a different school, as the 5 starters on the men’s and women’s teams are all men. 

Five 'trans women' dominate female volleyball game
https://www.rebelnews.com/we_went_to_a_college_female_varsity_volleyball_game_and_a_sausage_fest_broke_out_five_men_pretending_to_be_women_were_on_the_court_why
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 09, 2024, 06:41:13 pm
Do you ever wonder why your talking points used to focus exclusively on muslims and now they focus exclusively on gay people?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 09, 2024, 08:45:43 pm
All 5 starters are biological men!  All 5!  All the biological women had to sit on the bench.  I guess if you’re a biological woman and are interested in volleyball, you’ll need to go to a different school, as the 5 starters on the men’s and women’s teams are all men. 

Five 'trans women' dominate female volleyball game
https://www.rebelnews.com/we_went_to_a_college_female_varsity_volleyball_game_and_a_sausage_fest_broke_out_five_men_pretending_to_be_women_were_on_the_court_why

Seems worth pointing out that there’s no evidence any of the players are trans.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 10, 2024, 10:34:33 am
Seems worth pointing out that there’s no evidence any of the players are trans.
You know what?  That’s a fair point.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 10, 2024, 01:11:16 pm
You know what?  That’s a fair point.

(https://media1.tenor.com/m/rwAOwWX3iCEAAAAd/no-no-no-wait-wait-wait.gif)
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: waldo on February 29, 2024, 11:12:51 am
Besides, most transgenders are mentally ill.

2012: The American Psychiatric Association revised its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders; it no longer lists being transgender (Gender Identity Disorder (GID)) as a mental disorder... for the prior 20 years to this revision, GID had been listed as a mental disorder. Transgender people will now be diagnosed with "Gender Dysphoria," which means emotional stress related to gender identity.

you're welcome member Coolio, you're welcome!
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 29, 2024, 11:33:36 am
2012: The American Psychiatric Association revised its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders; it no longer lists being transgender (Gender Identity Disorder (GID)) as a mental disorder... for the prior 20 years to this revision, GID had been listed as a mental disorder. Transgender people will now be diagnosed with "Gender Dysphoria," which means emotional stress related to gender identity.

you're welcome member Coolio, you're welcome!
Gender dysphoria is still a mental disorder.  It's categorized as DSM-5.  DSM meaning The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Illnesses.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: wilber on February 29, 2024, 11:34:07 am
Seems worth pointing out that there’s no evidence any of the players are trans.

So they are just guys who are being allowed to play on a women's team?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: waldo on February 29, 2024, 11:51:33 am
Gender dysphoria is still a mental disorder.  It's categorized as DSM-5.  DSM meaning The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Illnesses.

"It's categorized as DSM-5"... you dumbphacker! That's the 5th version/iteration of the manual.

and again, in 2012, the American Psychiatric Association revised the diagnosis Transgender from a mental disorder to the condition Gender Dsyphoria.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 29, 2024, 12:03:08 pm
"It's categorized as DSM-5"... you dumbphacker! That's the 5th version/iteration of the manual.

and again, in 2012, the American Psychiatric Association revised the diagnosis Transgender from a mental disorder to the condition Gender Dsyphoria.
A mental disorder to a mental condition.  BFD.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on February 29, 2024, 12:09:29 pm
Exactly. If shady doesn't know the meaning of two terms, there is obviously no difference between them.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on February 29, 2024, 12:32:24 pm
Exactly. If shady doesn't know the meaning of two terms, there is obviously no difference between them.
Did your therapist explain the difference to you? 
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: waldo on February 29, 2024, 12:47:20 pm
Did your therapist explain the difference to you?

quit being a dipshyte, hey!
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on February 29, 2024, 01:31:25 pm
So they are just guys who are being allowed to play on a women's team?

We don't even know if they're guys either! The Rebel weirdo saw some butch looking women and assumed they were trans.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on February 29, 2024, 05:11:36 pm
So they are just guys who are being allowed to play on a women's team?

Biological males should never be allowed to play in Women's sports. It's cheating.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: waldo on February 29, 2024, 05:25:25 pm
***bump***

Besides, most transgenders are mentally ill.

2012: The American Psychiatric Association revised its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders; it no longer lists being transgender (Gender Identity Disorder (GID)) as a mental disorder... for the prior 20 years to this revision, GID had been listed as a mental disorder. Transgender people will now be diagnosed with "Gender Dysphoria," which means emotional stress related to gender identity.

you're welcome member Coolio, you're welcome!
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on March 03, 2024, 10:55:02 am
Seems worth pointing out that there’s no evidence any of the players are trans.

We don't even know if they're guys either! The Rebel weirdo saw some butch looking women and assumed they were trans.

Except of course that there's plenty of evidence that they're trans. Their own college newspapers posted articles about their Inspiring Journeys.


Twelve people  in a women's volleyball game and five of them are male. Just one more and they would have achieved True Trans Equality!  Surprising that Rebel News is the only outlet covering this inspiring moment for trans liberation.  Why wouldn't the CBC and Toronto Star be celebrating this incredible breakthrough for trans athletes? I thought we were supposed to be inspired by Trans Joytm.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on March 03, 2024, 10:56:12 am
At this moment in time, "LGBTQ Culture" is actually entirely "TQ+" culture.

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 03, 2024, 11:17:38 am
At this moment in time, "LGBTQ Culture" is actually entirely "TQ+" culture.

 -k

Maybe congrats are in order ?

With the diversity stuff, we now have (I think) openly gay people in our midst in banking.  Now... trading and pro sports will be the last bastion.  But, as with the anti-Irish prejudice that used to be pervasive, we might actually be getting past this stuff.

European, like Italian/Portugese folks, a family in the neighbourhood.  Son is gay and in high school.  I didn't see it, Joan says she did.  Mom is telling everyone happily.   Dad's ok.  On we go...

Frankly I am sick of this identity politics.  I try to point out the noise on it and I get jumped on every time.  i try to ask people their opinions and people tell me I'm a trans lover....

Look at the progress that has been made with LGBTQTS+ in my lifetime.  Now look at economic progress.  Seems like it's time to look at the latter.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on March 04, 2024, 10:30:22 am
Except of course that there's plenty of evidence that they're trans. Their own college newspapers posted articles about their Inspiring Journeys.


Twelve people  in a women's volleyball game and five of them are male. Just one more and they would have achieved True Trans Equality!  Surprising that Rebel News is the only outlet covering this inspiring moment for trans liberation.  Why wouldn't the CBC and Toronto Star be celebrating this incredible breakthrough for trans athletes? I thought we were supposed to be inspired by Trans Joytm.

 -k

Where is it then?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 04, 2024, 10:35:43 am
LGBT+ is the acronym I accept and is inclusive enough and I will never add more letters to it.  That's what the + is for.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on March 04, 2024, 11:09:49 am
LGBT+ is the acronym I accept and is inclusive enough and I will never add more letters to it.  That's what the + is for.
My favourite is the 2 spirit.  LOL.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on March 09, 2024, 07:49:52 pm
Where is it then?

Here's an article about two of the trans-women in the game, CL Viloria and Jaque Ranquillo from Centennial College:
https://humberjournalism.com/sweatmag/a-tale-of-two-teammates/

Here's one of the Seneca Sting players mentioned, Franz Largadas, shown on the women's roster for 2023-24, but the men's team in 2022-23:
https://www.senecasting.ca/sports/wvball/2023-24/bios/largadas_franz_vx93
https://www.senecasting.ca/sports/mvball/2022-23/roster

I couldn't find anything conclusive about the other two Sting players, Ara Telan and Jess Garcia. Perhaps they're just women with wide foreheads and broad shoulders.  Maybe it was just 3 dudes instead of 5.  So the thing that never happened happened at least 3 times in one game.


You really believe that "The Menzoid" was just at a volleyball game and saw players he thought looked manly?  I don't even believe that "The Menzoid" leaves his basement suite except to hit the drive-through for chicken tendies. He was there because he was tipped off, obviously.


 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: kimmy on March 09, 2024, 09:02:42 pm
Maybe congrats are in order ?

With the diversity stuff, we now have (I think) openly gay people in our midst in banking.  Now... trading and pro sports will be the last bastion.  But, as with the anti-Irish prejudice that used to be pervasive, we might actually be getting past this stuff.

European, like Italian/Portugese folks, a family in the neighbourhood.  Son is gay and in high school.  I didn't see it, Joan says she did.  Mom is telling everyone happily.   Dad's ok.  On we go...

Frankly I am sick of this identity politics.  I try to point out the noise on it and I get jumped on every time.  i try to ask people their opinions and people tell me I'm a trans lover....

Look at the progress that has been made with LGBTQTS+ in my lifetime.  Now look at economic progress.  Seems like it's time to look at the latter.

These groups are happy to leverage the boring cisgender homos when it suits their purposes  (ie, framing things as "anti-LGBTQ"). But the truth is that the things they're advocating for are no longer of value to, and in some cases actively harmful to boring cisgender gay people.  Groups like Human Rights Campaign, Stonewall UK, and Egale Canada have updated their definitions to say "gender preferences" rather than sexual orientation, which is literally homophobic.

When cigender gay people want to organize on their own and speak on their own they cry "noooo that's literal genocide you are erasing trans and queer people when you talk about LGB without the T", but they are developing their own framework to talk about the special needs of the genderfabulous community .  They call it "2STNBGD" -- two spirit, trans, non-binary, gender diverse:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/children-and-youth-report-expanded-services-1.6885372
https://cpa.ca/docs/File/Position/Gender%20Diversity%20Report%20EN%202023%20Final.pdf

This announcement for the U of A Pride Parade next week makes no mention at all of gay and lesbian people. Trans, "gender diverse", and 2-spirit expressly mentioned, but not cisgender gay people. A straight girl colors her hair purple, gets a bowl-cut and some thick-rimmed glasses, announces that she's now "queer" or "polyamorous" or "genderfluid"? This is her movement. It's nothing to do with me.

(https://i.imgur.com/x3yrtOD.png)

 -k
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: JessiWan on March 12, 2024, 10:04:26 pm
We don't even know if they're guys either! The Rebel weirdo saw some butch looking women and assumed they were trans.

The issue isn't whether those 5 people were trans women or not.  It's the fact that we are even talking about this issue.  It shows that trans women beating biological women at sports is a real enough thing.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on March 13, 2024, 10:45:33 am
Groups like Human Rights Campaign, Stonewall UK, and Egale Canada have updated their definitions to say "gender preferences" rather than sexual orientation, which is literally homophobic.

That's weird because the Human Rights Campaign, Stonewall UK both include the term "sexual orientation" on their website glossaries while a seach for the phrase "gender preference" on EGALE's website turns up zero results versus dozens for the other term,

Quote
This announcement for the U of A Pride Parade next week makes no mention at all of gay and lesbian people. Trans, "gender diverse", and 2-spirit expressly mentioned, but not cisgender gay people.

Gee I wonder if this would have something to do with the Government of Alberta’s new transgender policies.

Here's an article about two of the trans-women in the game, CL Viloria and Jaque Ranquillo from Centennial College:
https://humberjournalism.com/sweatmag/a-tale-of-two-teammates/

Here's one of the Seneca Sting players mentioned, Franz Largadas, shown on the women's roster for 2023-24, but the men's team in 2022-23:
https://www.senecasting.ca/sports/wvball/2023-24/bios/largadas_franz_vx93
https://www.senecasting.ca/sports/mvball/2022-23/roster


See was that so hard? Ok now that we have the facts here, I'll concede this is absurd. I don't think people who aren't medically transitioned should compete against people form the opposite biological sex in this sort of sport.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on March 13, 2024, 11:07:17 am
The good side is finally winning.

UK Bans Puberty Blockers For Minors
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2024/03/12/uk-bans-puberty-blockers-for-minors/?sh=64f0e5602a3b
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 13, 2024, 03:15:33 pm
After watching the results of the election after the Manitoba PCs decided demonizing trans kids should be their main party platform, I am hopeful that this issue remains at the forefront through the federal election.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on March 13, 2024, 03:33:29 pm
After watching the results of the election after the Manitoba PCs decided demonizing trans kids should be their main party platform, I am hopeful that this issue remains at the forefront through the federal election.
I don’t support demonizing kids, I want to protect them.  It looks like the UK and their health professionals are doing just that.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 13, 2024, 03:39:40 pm
Yes, just like you were protecting Muslims when they were your scapegoat. Keep at it, though. It's a proven winner! 😂
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on March 13, 2024, 03:47:02 pm
Yes, just like you were protecting Muslims when they were your scapegoat. Keep at it, though. It's a proven winner! 😂
You’re not making any sense.  What about the UK health officials decision to you disagree with?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 13, 2024, 05:12:39 pm
I couldn't care less about the issue but I appreciate how effective it has been in Canada as an issue that wins elections. Keep pushing it!
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on March 13, 2024, 05:40:35 pm
I couldn't care less about the issue but I appreciate how effective it has been in Canada as an issue that wins elections. Keep pushing it!
You should start caring about children a little more.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 13, 2024, 05:58:55 pm
You should start caring about children a little more.
Even imaginary ones?
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: JessiWan on March 13, 2024, 06:49:04 pm
After watching the results of the election after the Manitoba PCs decided demonizing trans kids should be their main party platform, I am hopeful that this issue remains at the forefront through the federal election.

How were they demonizing the trans kids?  Not allowing kids to transition is not demonizing them.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on March 13, 2024, 09:35:10 pm
You should start caring about children a little more.

You don’t care about children, why are you lying.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on March 15, 2024, 08:25:11 pm
😂😂😂

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on March 15, 2024, 10:10:45 pm
😂😂😂

(Attachment Link)

You will have to work pretty hard to convince me your dad didn’t die of shame from having such a loser for a son.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Coolio on March 16, 2024, 05:58:20 am
😂😂😂

(Attachment Link)

I literally spit out my drink when i saw this post. I was laughing so hard.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: ArriveScam Shady on March 16, 2024, 09:23:52 am
I literally spit out my drink when i saw this post. I was laughing so hard.
That was my reaction too, one of the funniest memes I’ve seen.
Title: Re: LGBTQ Culture
Post by: Black Dog on March 16, 2024, 10:36:34 pm
I literally spit out my drink when i saw this post. I was laughing so hard.

Oh no what a waste of Mad Dog 20/20!