Canadian Political Events

Federal Politics => Canadian Politics => Topic started by: Granny on July 13, 2019, 09:41:09 am

Title: RCMP
Post by: Granny on July 13, 2019, 09:41:09 am
In my opinion:
  The RCMP exist in a bubble of secrecy, protection and power not afforded to other police forces in Canada because they are national, not local, so without direct accountability to people and communities they serve. Rather, they are strongly connected to national government, and their power comes from doing what government wants them to do. Despite the fact that 'government cannot direct the operations of police", without direct accountability to communities, the RCMP do operate as the 'enforcement' arm of government. Despite their Oath to "obey lawful orders" only, RCMP officers have little recourse, no protection from unlawful orders.

Maybe that will improve now with a union to protect officers' interests.
We can hope. Lol

History
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Canadian_Mounted_Police

Glorious?

Present
https://www.voiceonline.com/rcmp-is-a-completely-broken-organization-that-cannot-be-fixed-with-its-current-culture-structure-leadership-former-solicitor-general-kash-heed/

Broken?
“At the end of the day, I am sad to say we are probably going to be looking at close to a $1 billion settlement and we don’t even know if we’ve fixed the problem. They don’t care as an organization because this is taxpayers’ money. For years I have been raising the issue based on the culture, the leadership of that organization and how fraught with problems it is and continues to be; yet we have nobody – and I am talking of the politicians – that want to take this on, hold them to account again and again and again. Nobody’s stepped up saying ‘enough is enough!’


Union
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/national-police-federation-union-rcmp-mounties-1.5210796

Finally!

National Police Federation wins right to represent Mounties in collective bargaining:
Supreme Court in 2015 struck down law that forbade Mounties from unionizing

Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Ghost of Graham on July 13, 2019, 11:53:14 am
From knowing a lot of different people working in enforcement organizations, and reading the news over the years, it's clear that there's a lot of dicks working in enforcement organizations across Canada and they have a serious internal culture program.

Having the power of authority over others, including the power to boss people around while having a gun strapped to your hip, tends to attract a certain type of person, and also tends to turn good people into a certain type of person.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on July 15, 2019, 07:39:07 am
From knowing a lot of different people working in enforcement organizations, and reading the news over the years, it's clear that there's a lot of dicks working in enforcement organizations across Canada and they have a serious internal culture program.

Having the power of authority over others, including the power to boss people around while having a gun strapped to your hip, tends to attract a certain type of person, and also tends to turn good people into a certain type of person.

I'm not a fan of the "a lot of dicks" idea. I think the culture that is sustained by the brass is much more influential ... and where that comes from: what are the political and other pressures that sustain/require certain types of behaviour.

I think you're right about the 'type that likes to boss people around with a gun ... ", but how do those 'dicks' get hired? How do they keep getting away with it? That's the culture from the top sustaining it.

Does one officer decide alone to disobey rules and cover something up, for example? Or does the culture sustain/require that?

"Prosecutors failed to disclose information and RCMP deleted files that pointed to another possible suspect."
"The reasons why are far-reaching and start at the very beginning of this case, during the investigation, and span every level of the justice system, right past the [Nova Scotia] Court of Appeal to the Department of Justice," said MacDonald.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/glen-assoun-brenda-way-justice-miscarriage-1.5210082

Sounds more like collusion from/by the prosecutor than just "a dick" cop: Did the prosecutor suggest that the information 'disappear'?
Oh ya, and the innocent guy who spent 17 years in jail ... was Indigenous.
 There is that.

It certainly creates an issue of public trust, might lead someone like me to question RCMP data that placed blame for deaths of Missing and Murdered Indigenous women "mostly" Indigenous men ... and fails to even mention serial killers.

Do we even know how widespread the practice is of deleting information that doesn't fit the 'popular narrative' in criminal cases? Is it worse than in other police forces? Given the vastness and often remoteness of RCMP jurisdictions across Canada, is it more likely that RCMP officers are inclined to make the evidence fit a chosen narrative?

We don't know, and we could not ever independently access the data to evaluate that and other questions. Eg, CPIC data from all police forces across the country isn't accessible by the public in any form. Seems odd, given that 'freedom of information' is the law now.

A lot of questions ... and very few avenues to find answers.

146 years of NWMP/RCMP service all across the country, and much less public accountability than other forces, it seems to me. That alone is a recipe for an ingrown and corrupted service. 

I wouldn't entirely put responsibility for that on the RCMP, either: Who else helps sustain that? Whose needs are served by that? Who are the power brokers?

Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: waldo on July 15, 2019, 11:14:09 am
It certainly creates an issue of public trust, might lead someone like me to question RCMP data that placed blame for deaths of Missing and Murdered Indigenous women "mostly" Indigenous men ... and fails to even mention serial killers, like the real perpetrator was in that case.

Do we even know how widespread the practice is of deleting information that doesn't fit the 'popular narrative' in criminal cases? Is it worse than in other police forces? Given the vastness and often remoteness of RCMP jurisdictions across Canada, is it more likely that RCMP officers are inclined to make the evidence fit a chosen narrative?

146 years of NWMP/RCMP service all across the country, and much less public accountability than other forces, it seems to me. That alone is a recipe for an ingrown and corrupted service. 

I wouldn't entirely put responsibility for that on the RCMP, either: Who else helps sustain that? Whose needs are served by that? Who are the power brokers?

is your hope/intent to make this a conspiracy thread?
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on July 15, 2019, 04:43:50 pm
is your hope/intent to make this a conspiracy thread?

It isn't 'a conspiracy' to inquire into, and evaluate a public service. We are entitled to know what we're paying for,
The public isn't the enemy:
We're the employer!!


If you read my whole post, you will see that I'm inquiring mainly about the pressures that are applied to the RCMP by other players, who are also on the public payroll.
So I repeat:
"Prosecutors failed to disclose information and RCMP deleted files that pointed to another possible suspect."
The prosecutor knew.
Did the prosecutor influence the officer in some way to delete information?
And how commonly is that done?

Questions needing answers ...
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on July 16, 2019, 02:11:37 pm
Hey, squid (re "dumb) ... I get that you are supportive of police. Are you also supportive of bad policing behaviour, like deleting evidence?
Note that my focus is ... who is pressuring police in such situations?
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on August 18, 2019, 10:54:46 am
The RCMP has been sitting for two years on a watchdog report into alleged Mountie surveillance of anti-oil protesters, a civil liberties group charges.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-watchdog-oil-spying-1.5246354
The association lodged a complaint in February 2014 with the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the RCMP. It alleged the national police force improperly collected and shared information about people and groups who peacefully opposed the planned Northern Gateway pipeline project and attended National Energy Board meetings.

The association said monitoring, surveillance and information sharing with other government agencies and the private sector created a chilling effect for those who might wish to take part in hearings or other public discussions on petroleum issues.

The commission launched a public interest investigation and completed an interim report into the matter in June 2017, forwarding it to the RCMP for comment on the conclusions and recommendations.

The commission cannot prepare a final report until the RCMP commissioner responds, which also means the findings can't be disclosed to the civil liberties association or the public.

In March, Paul Champ, a lawyer for the association, wrote commission chair Michelaine Lahaie to express concern that more than five years had passed since the complaint was filed, saying the RCMP may have violated the fundamental freedoms of Canadians exercising their democratic rights.


Who gives the orders RCMP to do surveillance on members of the public attending public meetings of the National Energy Board that is funded by the public?
Do they do surveillance on everybody who attends, or just those opposed to corporate proposals?
Do corporations pay the RCMP salaries for their work? <sarcasm>
The RCMP are sharing this illicit surveillance info on individuals with other government agencies, AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR???
And sitting on the report for two years?

Do RCMP take orders directly from corporations?
Do the orders come indirectly from politicians supporting corporate proposals?

Who tells the RCMP which proposals are matters of 'national security' so they 'know' who to surveil?

Who oversees the RCMP to ensure that they are accountable to the public, who pay their salaries?
Why did an oversight body not notice the RCMP sitting on this report of their inappropriate and politically partisan surveillance of members of the public who pay their salaries?

There's a huge, 150+ year old stench of political and corporate influence, pressure and direction of the RCMP.

 
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2019, 11:56:45 am
The RCMP are sharing this illicit surveillance info on individuals with other government agencies, AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR???

are you making an unsubstantiated statement or are you asking a question... make up your mind, hey!

on the broader level, speaking of making up your mind, clearly you've done so already - yes?
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: wilber on August 18, 2019, 01:29:47 pm
The RCMP needs to respond. On the other hand, if particular individuals or groups present a genuine security threat to a company, that company deserves to know about it, just as an individual would.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on August 18, 2019, 01:45:11 pm
are you making an unsubstantiated statement or are you asking a question... make up your mind, hey!
Waldo, it's irritating that you don't read before responding.
Obviously, I was repeating the information provided in the article quoted above:
"...information sharing with other government agencies and the private sector ..."
For substantiation of that, we'd have to see the  report of the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission (CRCC)... but the fact that the RCMP are sitting on that CRCC report so it can't be released publicly pretty much substantiates the complaints, imo.

Quote
on the broader level, speaking of making up your mind, clearly you've done so already - yes?

Gee ... let's see ...
*RCMP are accused of improper surveillance of Canadians exercising legal democratic rights.
*CRCC investigates, writes report, sends report to RCMP for response, so both CRCC report and RCMP response can be made public at once.
*RCMP sits on CRCC report refusing to respond ... for two years now.
*RCMP Commissioner refuses to answer CRCC requests for RCMP response to the report.

It isn't hard to 'make up one's mind' that the RCMP  refusal to respond means that they are guilty, and are obstructing to prevent the report from being made public.

But do tell, waldo, what's your take on this?
Did the RCMP act improperly in collecting surveillance on Canadians attending NEB hearings, and distributing it to other government agencies and the private sector?
Has the RCMP again acted improperly by failing to address the CRCC report and recommendations, effectively preventing it from becoming public?
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2019, 02:00:22 pm
Waldo, it's irritating that you don't read before responding.
Obviously, I was repeating the information provided in the article quoted above:
"...information sharing with other government agencies and the private sector ..."
For substantiation of that, we'd have to see the  report of the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission (CRCC)... but the fact that the RCMP are sitting on that CRCC report so it can't be released publicly pretty much substantiates the complaints, imo.

your unsubstantiated OPINION is noted! Again, you bold-highlighted a definitive statement! You presume to 'seek cover' in making/repeating said definitive statement by closing it with multiple "?".

Gee ... let's see ...
*RCMP are accused of improper surveillance of Canadians exercising legal democratic rights.
*CRCC investigates, writes report, sends report to RCMP for response, so both CRCC report and RCMP response can be made public at once.
*RCMP sits on CRCC report refusing to respond ... for two years now.
*RCMP Commissioner refuses to answer CRCC requests for RCMP response to the report.

It isn't hard to 'make up one's mind' that the RCMP  refusal to respond means that they are guilty, and are obstructing to prevent the report from being made public.

But do tell, waldo, what's your take on this?
Did the RCMP act improperly in collecting surveillance on Canadians attending NEB hearings, and distributing it to other government agencies and the private sector?
Has the RCMP again acted improperly by failing to address the CRCC report and recommendations, effectively preventing it from becoming public?

you're gleefully running with nothing more than accusations... and base all your baseless criticism on the report not being released. I would expect there are matters of National Security involved - possibly actions taken as directed by government/CSIS. Hey didja know there's STILL continued ONGOING concerns related to TMX - apparently you could care less about possibly compromising investigations with the report release.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on August 18, 2019, 02:04:16 pm
The RCMP needs to respond. On the other hand, if particular individuals or groups present a genuine security threat to a company, that company deserves to know about it, just as an individual would.

We would have to see the report to know that, wouldn't we?
But I think we can assume that no security threats were found as no one has been charged with any threats or crimes against said company before or after these complaints were made against the RCMP ... 5 years ago!

You raise an issue that is likely addressed in the CRCC report (that the RCMP won't let us see): Can the RCMP conduct widespread surveillance on Canadians without just cause?
The fact of someone's opposition to a corporate development is not 'just cause' to assume any criminal intent, nor criminal behaviour.
The fact of someone's opposition to a corporate development is Constitutionally protected freedom of expression and assembly.

Upholding individual Constitutional rights is an RCMP responsibility.
Pushing through a corporate for-profit pipeline is not an RCMP responsibility. Improper surveillance
to harass, intimidate and threaten Canadians, is certainly not an RCMP duty, but an abuse of their duties to the public who pay their salaries.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2019, 02:09:53 pm
Improper surveillance to harass, intimidate and threaten Canadians, is certainly not an RCMP duty, but an abuse of their duties to the public who pay their salaries.

 ;D more of your unsubstantiated statements! Well done
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on August 18, 2019, 02:14:37 pm
your unsubstantiated OPINION is noted! Again, you bold-highlighted a definitive statement! You presume to 'seek cover' in making/repeating said definitive statement by closing it with multiple "?".

you're gleefully running with nothing more than accusations... and base all your baseless criticism on the report not being released. I would expect there are matters of National Security involved - possibly actions taken as directed by government/CSIS. Hey didja know there's STILL continued ONGOING concerns related to TMX - apparently you could care less about possibly compromising investigations with the report release.

That's all your own speculation, waldo. The RCMP have not made such claims. The RCMP have simply refused to communicate with the CRCC about the report at all. The RCMP have not raised any issues of "National Security", or given any reasons at all for not responding.

And btw ... re your statement:
 "...possibly actions taken as directed by government ..."
You are aware that that's impossible, right?
 You are aware of the necessary separation between government and police?
You are aware that "government cannot direct the operations of police"?
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2019, 02:24:57 pm
That's all your own speculation, waldo. The RCMP have not made such claims. The RCMP have simply refused to communicate with the CRCC about the report at all. The RCMP have not raised any issues of "National Security", or given any reasons at all for not responding.

hey now! What's the first-rule of Fight Club?
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: ?Impact on August 18, 2019, 02:40:44 pm
The RCMP needs to respond. On the other hand, if particular individuals or groups present a genuine security threat to a company, that company deserves to know about it, just as an individual would.


Agreed, and what I put in bold face is of critical importance and very likely what concerns people.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: wilber on August 18, 2019, 03:45:50 pm
We would have to see the report to know that, wouldn't we?

Yes we would, that’s why I said they need to address it. Until then you are free to make whatever assumptions you want, justified or not.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on August 18, 2019, 11:29:28 pm
hey now! What's the first-rule of Fight Club?

Stick to the facts?
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on August 19, 2019, 12:02:47 am

Agreed, and what I put in bold face is of critical importance and very likely what concerns people.

What "genuine security threat"?
There is no "genuine security threat".
There is perhaps a threat to exports for profit, if those opposed can turn the tide ... and they did.
Oh well.
That's just freedom and democracy.
Something the RCMP aren't too comfortable with.

Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: waldo on August 19, 2019, 12:06:54 am
Stick to the facts?

no - the first (most obvious) rule is you {the RCMP} don't talk about possible threats to National Security. Sumthin bout giving away the investigation farm!  ;D
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: waldo on August 19, 2019, 12:12:31 am
There is no "genuine security threat".

citation request

{given how you've significantly wigged out against the RCMP in regards MMIW, the waldo suggests you should recuse yourself from this separate issue and related discussion - clearly, you're not thinking rationally and your bias is running rampant}
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on August 19, 2019, 02:34:30 am
no - the first (most obvious) rule is you {the RCMP} don't talk about possible threats to National Security. Sumthin bout giving away the investigation farm!  ;D

Pipelines for fossil fuel export for private profit are NOT a matter of National Security, and no one has ever said they were.

We'll see what flimsy excuses the RCMP come up with for withholding the report and their response from the public.
But I'll bet it won't be "National Security".

They made a big deal about surveilling a so-called Indigenous "extremist" - ie, a member of the Indigenous Environmental Network, for cripes sake! 
Get a friggin life, RCMP!! Stop chasing 'Indians'!  Start upholding Constitutional Aboriginal rights: That's your job!

Face it waldo: RCMP are not responding to the report ... because they are going to look like idiots.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: waldo on August 19, 2019, 10:38:08 am
Pipelines for fossil fuel export for private profit are NOT a matter of National Security, and no one has ever said they were.

you are so obviously out of your depth (which is quite shallow to begin with) here! Critical infrastructure has been a national security priority since the Second World War... and starting in the 70s, an energy crisis and terrorist attacks on energy related targets refocused critical infrastructure security on threats from within national borders. Accordingly, world state governments have today tasked themselves with protecting (largely privately owned) energy infrastructure against threats from resident people and groups - how could they not?

perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the National Energy Board responsibilities and, in particular, how it shapes regulatory aspects... and most pointedly as reflects upon TMX, you may want to ask yourself why the U.S. insisted on a sign-off to the recent TMX purchase agreement - one based on grounds related to {their} national security concerns/interest - hey!
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: wilber on August 19, 2019, 04:48:55 pm
What "genuine security threat"?
There is no "genuine security threat".
There is perhaps a threat to exports for profit, of protesters can turn the tide ... and they did.
Oh well.
That's just freedom and democracy.
Something the RCMP aren't too comfortable with.



This is why the RCMP need to address this. Until they do, people will just run wild with whatever assumptions they feel like.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on August 20, 2019, 07:01:57 am
you are so obviously out of your depth (which is quite shallow to begin with) here!
Your strategy of starting out with personal insults betrays your lack of confidence in your responses.

 
Quote
Critical infrastructure has been a national security priority since the Second World War... and starting in the 70s, an energy crisis and terrorist attacks on energy related targets refocused critical infrastructure security on threats from within national borders. Accordingly, world state governments have today tasked themselves with protecting (largely privately owned) energy infrastructure against threats from resident people and groups - how could they not?

perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the National Energy Board responsibilities and, in particular, how it shapes regulatory aspects... and most pointedly as reflects upon TMX, you may want to ask yourself why the U.S. insisted on a sign-off to the recent TMX purchase agreement - one based on grounds related to {their} national security concerns/interest - hey!

1)Profits of foreign corporations, exports to other countries, are not a National Security issue for Canadians, and nobody has ever said they were. Nobody, in particular Trudeau, will ever support the RCMP in using that justification. He'd be hooted off the stage, because pipelines are widely seen as the biggest threat to our future security, even by Trudeau's supporters.
2) If the RCMP are now just acting as security guards for the profits of corporations ...
EG, here ...
https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/province-house/roughed-up-by-the-rcmp-john-perkins-sues-atlantic-gold-and-the-cops/
And here ...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/risk-assessment-wetsuweten-unistoten-camp-1.4975744

 ... then perhaps we, who currently pay their salaries while protesting their invasive and unjust actions that violate our Constitutional rights,  need to rethink the 'national' status of the RCMP and downgrade them to a more appropriate status as private-for-hire-corporate-security guards.
If the RCMP are 'workin for the man' forcing politically unwelcome corporate developments on communities, instead of respecting and enforcing the Constitutional and democratic rights of Canadians to oppose developments in their communities, then the RCMP are not operating as a 'national' police force.

It's important to always keep in mind that government cannot direct the operations of police because politicians can't turn the police against the people to suppress dissent in order to  further their own partisan interests.
That is a perversion and destruction of democracy.




 
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: waldo on August 20, 2019, 09:11:48 am
Your strategy of starting out with personal insults betrays your lack of confidence in your responses.

says you... the QueenOfInsultGiving. Your perceived insult wasn't "strategic"; it was strictly responsive and in kind!

1)Profits of foreign corporations, exports to other countries, are not a National Security issue for Canadians, and nobody has ever said they were. Nobody, in particular Trudeau, will ever support the RCMP in using that justification. He'd be hooted off the stage, because pipelines are widely seen as the biggest threat to our future security, even by Trudeau's supporters.

how dismissive you are of government royalties and taxation revenues... and something about societal dependencies... about supporting government services, social programs, provincial transfers, etc.. Geezaz, just look what happens when refineries go off-line for extended operational maintenance. None of this is partisan politics as much as you're trying to make it so.

... then perhaps we, who currently pay their salaries while protesting their invasive and unjust actions that violate our Constitutional rights,  need to rethink the 'national' status of the RCMP and downgrade them to a more appropriate status as private-for-hire-corporate-security guards. If the RCMP are 'workin for the man' forcing politically unwelcome corporate developments on communities, instead of respecting and enforcing the Constitutional and democratic rights of Canadians to oppose developments in their communities, then the RCMP are not operating as a 'national' police force.

It's important to always keep in mind that government cannot direct the operations of police because politicians can't turn the police against the people to suppress dissent in order to  further their own partisan interests. That is a perversion and destruction of democracy.

perhaps acquaint yourself with what civilian agencies can and can't do... and how police, through lawful means, extend upon those civilian "can't do" aspects.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: SuperColinBlow on September 04, 2019, 10:37:28 am
It seems from the Wikipedia article, that the RCMP is not unlike a combination (in American terms) of the FBI, the Secret Service and some state police forces? I was surprised to read that they have policing power in eight of Canada's ten provinces. Aren't there provincial police in those provinces?
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: wilber on September 04, 2019, 11:05:43 am
None of the western provinces have provincial police forces.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: ?Impact on September 04, 2019, 04:49:17 pm
Aren't there provincial police in those provinces?

I believe only Ontario and Quebec have provincial police forces. Most larger cities across the country however have municipal police forces.  You obviously are not a fan of Canadian television like the Beachcombers, Corner Gas, North of 60, etc.; the RCMP are well represented.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2019, 05:30:20 pm
I believe only Ontario and Quebec have provincial police forces. Most larger cities across the country however have municipal police forces.  You obviously are not a fan of Canadian television like the Beachcombers, Corner Gas, North of 60, etc.; the RCMP are well represented.

Yep, OPP and QPP. I have had speeding tickets from both. 
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: wilber on September 04, 2019, 05:31:36 pm
Newfoundland has a provincial police.
Royal Newfoundland Constabulary
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2019, 05:40:09 pm
Newfoundland has a provincial police.
Royal Newfoundland Constabulary

That's true and they used to have to keep their firearms locked in the trunk of the cop car and had to ask permission to get them out. Lard tunderin Geezuz bye.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: ?Impact on September 04, 2019, 05:57:05 pm
Yep, OPP and QPP. I have had speeding tickets from both.

I only have had 2 speeding tickets in my life. One was a photo radar on the Autobahn, and the other was a municipal police force in Ontario which I successfully fought.

I also escaped one from the OPP on Manitoulin island many decades ago. The limit was 80 and I was just slightly above it, but someone passed me and I decided to follow behind them. Miles later as they crested a hill, I saw the break lights go on so I slowed down. By the time I got to the top of the hill the cop was in the middle of the road flagging the other guy over, and stayed there. I kept going and he just looked at me, perhaps hoping I would volunteer to pull over. I just slowly drove past him.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2019, 08:47:39 pm
I only have had 2 speeding tickets in my life. One was a photo radar on the Autobahn, and the other was a municipal police force in Ontario which I successfully fought.

I also escaped one from the OPP on Manitoulin island many decades ago. The limit was 80 and I was just slightly above it, but someone passed me and I decided to follow behind them. Miles later as they crested a hill, I saw the break lights go on so I slowed down. By the time I got to the top of the hill the cop was in the middle of the road flagging the other guy over, and stayed there. I kept going and he just looked at me, perhaps hoping I would volunteer to pull over. I just slowly drove past him.

I think there are still those who believer there is no speed limit on the Autobahn. Having driven it both ways from Frankfurt to Wilhelmsaven I know otherwise. However on my trips everybody seemed to ignore that limit. I just went with the flow so I guess I lucked out.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: wilber on September 04, 2019, 10:21:05 pm
I think there are still those who believer there is no speed limit on the Autobahn. Having driven it both ways from Frankfurt to Wilhelmsaven I know otherwise. However on my trips everybody seemed to ignore that limit. I just went with the flow so I guess I lucked out.

Some sections don't have limits but others do.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Omni on September 04, 2019, 10:51:56 pm
Some sections don't have limits but others do.

I couldn't convince that Mercedes to slow down no matter what I said.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: SuperColinBlow on September 05, 2019, 03:43:13 am
I believe only Ontario and Quebec have provincial police forces. Most larger cities across the country however have municipal police forces.  You obviously are not a fan of Canadian television like the Beachcombers, Corner Gas, North of 60, etc.; the RCMP are well represented.

Why don't the western provinces have their own provincial police forces?
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on September 05, 2019, 08:38:04 am
Why don't the western provinces have their own provincial police forces?

Population, perhaps?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_population_growth_rate

And historical establishment of the RCMP across the country.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: waldo on September 05, 2019, 09:20:30 am
Newfoundland has a provincial police. Royal Newfoundland Constabulary

which only does policing for the larger population centers... leaving the lesser pop {rural} areas to the RCMP

Why don't the western provinces have their own provincial police forces?

as well as Atlantic provinces (save the partial policing done within Nfld-Lab)... to a degree, federal transfer payments help offset contractual arrangements made with the RCMP. The RCMP is a lower cost than provincial/local police forces, in part due to the traditionally lower wages paid by the RCMP to its members - those overall lower costs results in significant tax savings for citizens policed by the RCMP. Studies show the 'downside' is a resultant higher case load for the RCMP, with a lower closure rate.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: SuperColinBlow on September 05, 2019, 10:15:57 am
which only does policing for the larger population centers... leaving the lesser pop {rural} areas to the RCMP

as well as Atlantic provinces (save the partial policing done within Nfld-Lab)... to a degree, federal transfer payments help offset contractual arrangements made with the RCMP. The RCMP is a lower cost than provincial/local police forces, in part due to the traditionally lower wages paid by the RCMP to its members - those overall lower costs results in significant tax savings for citizens policed by the RCMP. Studies show the 'downside' is a resultant higher case load for the RCMP, with a lower closure rate.

The RCMP get lower wages compared to local police in those provinces? Wow. That surprises me. Maybe that is part of the problem?

May I assume, from what you have told me, that the voters of the western provinces are more fiscally conservative types than their counterparts in Ontario, Quebec and Newfoundland? Because that, to me, would certainly explain it. (But I don't live in Canada so I could likely be wrong about that.)
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: SuperColinBlow on September 05, 2019, 11:52:31 am
Population, perhaps?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_population_growth_rate

And historical establishment of the RCMP across the country.

Yes, I understand it was originally the Northwest Mounted Police, for the "territory" west of Ontario...or west of something...I learned that watching "Murdoch Mysteries" (lol)
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on September 05, 2019, 12:34:37 pm
The RCMP get lower wages compared to local police in those provinces? Wow. That surprises me. Maybe that is part of the problem?

May I assume, from what you have told me, that the voters of the western provinces are more fiscally conservative types than their counterparts in Ontario, Quebec and Newfoundland? Because that, to me, would certainly explain it. (But I don't live in Canada so I could likely be wrong about that.)

That may improve now that the RCMP will have a union.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/national-police-federation-union-rcmp-mounties-1.5210796
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on September 17, 2019, 10:30:45 am
Well, what to say ... we have a spy within the RCMP at a very high level, giving away secrets of Canada and our '5 eyes' allies.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ortis-cse-csis-documents-devistating-1.5285970
(and a spelling mistake in the cbc link. Lol)
And ... how the Mounties found out from the US that they had a spy in their midst:
https://globalnews.ca/video/rd/668bfd78-d8e2-11e9-aced-0242ac110005/?jwsource=cl

The RCMP have proven particularly incompetent at dealing with any real national security issues, and unethical and illegal behaviour, eg blowing things up and blaming environmentalists=entrapment+arson in dealing with internal constitutionally protected dissent (eg, environmentalists, Indigenous) in the past, and still:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCMP_Security_Service
As a result of illegal tactics used by the Security Service and consequent scandals surrounding the RCMP, intelligence work was transferred to a new agency, CSIS, in 1984. The RCMP has again become involved in intelligence work, however, particularly related to terrorism following the bombing of Air India Flight 182 in 1985 and the 9/11 attacks.

What the heck is wrong with the RCMP?

Entitled, secretive police who treat people's constitutional rights as crimes, masters at entrapment and other illegal tactics, so  chronically covering up each other's bad behaviour to the point that a spy can operate for a long time in their midst undetected.

The most unaccountable police force in the country, and that's a very serious problem.

And Trudeau's to deal with ... during an election campaign.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: the_squid on September 17, 2019, 11:48:50 am
Quote
blowing things up and blaming environmentalists

Where and when did the RCMP do this?
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on September 17, 2019, 12:11:21 pm
Where and when did the RCMP do this?

It's quite a list of exposed illegal tactics by the RCMP, ... but the one I referenced is this:

RCMP bombing in Alberta, scapegoating farmer   

The RCMP bombed an oilsite in Alberta on October 14, 1999, on the instructions of the Alberta Energy Co. No injuries were caused or intended. The Crown lawyers, representing the government, accepted that the allegations were true. An Alberta farmer was blamed for the bombing.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversies_involving_the_Royal_Canadian_Mounted_Police

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/rcmp-bombed-oil-site-in-dirty-tricks-campaign-1.188599


The RCMP doesn't uphold people's Constitutional right to dissent. They entrap to criminalize and squash dissent against corporations.
The RCMP work for industry and their boughtandpaidfor politicians, not for Canadians.

And at least one - Director of Intelligence  also sells our secrets.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Ghost of Graham on September 17, 2019, 09:32:02 pm
The "P" in RCMP stands for "Poo", or so i have been told.
Title: Re: RCMP
Post by: Granny on September 18, 2019, 12:33:40 am
I can't say that would be my first response, but ... fill yer boots! Lol

Update:
https://globalnews.ca/news/5914384/compromised-probe-linked-to-alleged-rcmp-mole-was-elite-huge-intelligence-file/