Canadian Politics Today
Federal Politics => Canadian Politics => Topic started by: Queefer Sutherland on July 11, 2019, 11:07:50 am
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Talk about your favorite Canadian election muck-raking here.
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And be moderated by you? No way. :P
There are plenty of other topics about election issues.
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Moderate me baby.
So far I'm green/liberal, mostly to give Scheer the finger for his shitty call-outs to populism. Anti UN, anti Climate, anti Muslim, Evangelistic...
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Moderate me baby.
So far I'm green/liberal, mostly to give Scheer the finger for his shitty call-outs to populism. Anti UN, anti Climate, anti Muslim, Evangelistic...
How is Scheer anti-UN? Or anti-Muslim? Or anti-climate? Or populist? He is evangelical, but so far policies don't reflect it. Sounds like you've bought in to Waldo's scary caricatures.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-scheer-says-a-conservative-government-would-continue-campaign-for-un/
https://www.conservative.ca/cpc/andrew-scheers-climate-plan/
At this point Scheer would have to start raping babies for me not to vote CPC.
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How is Scheer anti-UN? Or anti-Muslim? Or anti-climate? Or populist? He is evangelical, but so far policies don't reflect it. Sounds like you've bought in to Waldo's scary caricatures.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-scheer-says-a-conservative-government-would-continue-campaign-for-un/
https://www.conservative.ca/cpc/andrew-scheers-climate-plan/
At this point Scheer would have to start raping babies for me not to vote CPC.
Could you have found any two weaker articles to try and prove your points? The UN article clearly points out he had no specific examples to point out during the interview, but his press secretary came to his rescue to try and take cheap shot swats at the current government. And the Climate Change article, laughable. No bias there eh!
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There are plenty of other topics about election issues.
although there's 3 currently active, I'm sure member 'Poonlight' intends this as a thread to address such things as polling, policy platforms, etc.; I quite sure he doesn't intend this as a/his pro-CPC/Scheer thread. ;D
How is Scheer anti-UN? Or anti-Muslim? Or anti-climate? Or populist? He is evangelical, but so far policies don't reflect it. At this point Scheer would have to start raping babies for me not to vote CPC.
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I enjoy things in moderation too.
I'm having a hard time justifying parking my vote with the NDP again this time. I really liked Mulcair and new guy doesn't seem at all ready (as they say). My riding is a Liberal/CPC swing riding too, so I guess if I'd rather see Trudeau than Scheer, I'm going to have to lend the Libs my vote.
Which is kind of repulsive, but oh well.
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How is Scheer anti-UN? Or anti-Muslim? Or anti-climate? Or populist? He is evangelical, but so far policies don't reflect it. Sounds like you've bought in to Waldo's scary caricatures.
At this point Scheer would have to start raping babies for me not to vote CPC.
I'm on my phone but he has kowtowed to these types of supporters.
I have my doubts he will actively **** a baby before the election. In the other hand if Trudeau came out against baby ****, he could well take a wait-and-see approach.
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although there's 3 currently active, I'm sure member 'Poonlight' intends this as a thread to address such things as polling, policy platforms, etc.; I quite sure he doesn't intend this as a/his pro-CPC/Scheer thread. ;D
There is currently no thread dedicated to the overall 2019 federal election, that i can find on here anyways. We have waldo's Scheer-smear, Granny's "vote green" thread etc.
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And the Climate Change article, laughable. No bias there eh!
That's not an article it's the CPC climate platform from the CPC website.
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I'm sure member 'Poonlight' intends this as a thread to address such things as polling, policy platforms, etc.; I quite sure he doesn't intend this as a/his pro-CPC/Scheer thread. ;D
Unlike yourself i'm not a diehard partisan. I voted for Trudeau's Liberals last election (don't regret it, still better than corrupt Harper), voted NDP before that. And like I said, if Scheer starts raping babies I will gladly not vote for the CPC this election.
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Unlike yourself i'm not a diehard partisan. I voted for Trudeau's Liberals last election (don't regret it, still better than corrupt Harper), voted NDP before that. And like I said, if Scheer starts raping babies I will gladly not vote for the CPC this election.
I don't think he will **** any babies but he may head down the road to making sure any unwanted pregnancies aren't allowed access to proper medical care for termination so back we go to knitting needles in back alleys.
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I don't think he will **** any babies but he may head down the road to making sure any unwanted pregnancies aren't allowed access to proper medical care for termination so back we go to knitting needles in back alleys.
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So we're back to Harper's hidden-agenda again.
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I do hate the hidden agenda angle.
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So we're back to Harper's hidden-agenda again.
Ah no, it's looking ahead to Scheer's likely hidden agenda again.
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We have waldo's Scheer-smear, Granny's "vote green" thread etc.
excuse me! Why would you call Scheer-smear when facts/factual accounts concerning weakSauce Scheer are presented? One would think a strong Scheer proponent as yourself would relish opportunities to address your perceived Scheer-smears... in the thread they're presented - no?
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Ah no, it's looking ahead to Scheer's likely hidden agenda again.
What?
That's exactly what they said about Harper, his government governed from the center or center-right. It's fear-mongering.
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What?
That's exactly what they said about Harper, his government governed from the center or center-right. It's fear-mongering.
I hope you're right but I expect you're wrong. With regard to the abortion issue Scheer has said quite clearly during his campaign he would let the issue be reopened and of course then swapped ends after he won the nomination knowing full well it wouldn't bode well during a run for the top spot.
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excuse me! Why would you call Scheer-smear when facts/factual accounts concerning weakSauce Scheer are presented? One would think a strong Scheer proponent as yourself would relish opportunities to address your perceived Scheer-smears... in the thread they're presented - no?
I'm sorry you're offended by the fact that your Scheer thread has the sole purpose of attacking Scheer. #weakSauce #milqueToast
I'm also not a strong Scheer proponent, i'm not a fan. But compared to Trudeau he's Winston Churchill :D
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I hope you're right but I expect you're wrong. With regard to the abortion issue Scheer has said quite clearly during his campaign he would let the issue be reopened and of course then swapped ends after he won the nomination knowing full well it wouldn't bode well during a run for the top spot.
Even if he wanted to reopen abortion it would likely get struck down in the courts and then he wouldn't be reelected. Or if it went through, it would just be reversed by the next government and again he wouldn't be reelected. This prevented Harper from touching these issues, strategically it would be a disaster. Costs are high, benefits are low.
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compared to Trudeau he's Winston Churchill
Overweight with a drinking problem?
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On a related note, why does the CPC keep making religious wingnuts their leader?
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Even if he wanted to reopen abortion it would likely get struck down in the courts and then he wouldn't be reelected. Or if it went through, it would just be reversed by the next government and again he wouldn't be reelected. This prevented Harper from touching these issues, strategically it would be a disaster. Costs are high, benefits are low.
I guess if it got struck down by the next government then he would already have not been reelected. Just a logistical item for ya.
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https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/the-latest-338canada-projection-so-long-tory-lead/
This seems like the 'general' thread on the election. And the polls show that 'week sauce' has pissed away his seat projection lead.
Works for me.
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On a related note, why does the CPC keep making religious wingnuts their leader?
Because these are the party's values. That's who their membership wants representing them. If that doesn't represent you, then maybe the party actually doesn't represent you.
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I don't think he will **** any babies but he may head down the road to making sure any unwanted pregnancies aren't allowed access to proper medical care for termination so back we go to knitting needles in back alleys.
Scheer's personal stance, and that of his constituents aside, Scheer, like Harper, is savvy enough to know that anti-abortion legislation or campaigning just won't fly anymore. The anti-abortionists are a small group, vocal perhaps, but not powerful.
And any of them who are Male have no credibility, so that leaves a VERY small group. Lol
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And any of them who are Male have no credibility...
Why is that?
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Scheer's personal stance, and that of his constituents aside, Scheer, like Harper, is savvy enough to know that anti-abortion legislation or campaigning just won't fly anymore. The anti-abortionists are a small group, vocal perhaps, but not powerful.
And any of them who are Male have no credibility, so that leaves a VERY small group. Lol
Let me say from the start start that I am in agreement with the current situation surrounding abortion in Canada. But I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the male feelings on the issue. They have just as much clout at the ballot box as women. And while Scheer has publicly stated he won't open the debate, he said the very opposite when he was campaigning for the party leadership. I am damn sure he has a very good handle on the fact that there is rising support for some sort of abortion law, and a cabinet minister or back bencher could forward a motion at any time. I won't let my guard down and I'm a male.
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Why is that?
You really have to ask? Lol
I think temporart vasectomies should be mandatory for all young men, to avoid unwanted pregnancies. They can be reversed for wanted pregnancies, once they qualify with homes and sufficient salaries to support a family.
This unwanted random spreading of viable sperm has to stop!
I'll make sure the committee is stacked with women.
Lol
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Let me say from the start start that I am in agreement with the current situation surrounding abortion in Canada. But I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the male feelings on the issue. They have just as much clout at the ballot box as women. And while Scheer has publicly stated he won't open the debate, he said the very opposite when he was campaigning for the party leadership. I am damn sure he has a very good handle on the fact that there is rising support for some sort of abortion law, and a cabinet minister or back bencher could forward a motion at any time. I won't let my guard down and I'm a male.
I have no problem with men supporting women's choices.
I have a real problem with men trying to make women's choices for them.
I have no fear of any legislation coming forward. There is little likelihood of it passing.
I think Scheer, like Harper, will avoid that issue.
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You really have to ask? Lol
Yeah... I'm genuinely curious why anyone thinks that gender should render one's opinion moot. That's what society did for a long time with women's opinions, and clearly it wasn't OK. So that mentality is very odd to me.
I think temporart vasectomies should be mandatory for all young men, to avoid unwanted pregnancies. They can be reversed for wanted pregnancies, once they qualify with homes and sufficient salaries to support a family.
This unwanted random spreading of viable sperm has to stop!
I'll make sure the committee is stacked with women.
Lol
If you think a committee of women would support something like that, I think you're wrong. I think a committee of women would see that it would violate a person's (man's) rights and would never be in favour of something like that.
But I guess I have a higher opinion of my fellow citizens, be they man or woman, than you do.
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I have a real problem with men trying to make women's choices for them.
Using your twisted logic, this means a woman who is anti-abortion would have a more credible and valid opinion to you than a man who supports women's choice and bodily autonomy.
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You really have to ask? Lol
I think temporary vasectomies should be mandatory for all young men, to avoid unwanted pregnancies. They can be reversed for wanted pregnancies, once they qualify with homes and sufficient salaries to support a family.
This unwanted random spreading of viable sperm has to stop!
I'll make sure the committee is stacked with women.
Lol
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Yeah... I'm genuinely curious why anyone thinks that gender should render one's opinion moot.
I think a committee of women would see that it would violate a person's (man's) rights and would never be in favour of something like that.
Yes, it would violate a man's rights and I think women would see that.
Would a committee of men see that it violates a women's rights to make laws against abortion?
Depends. Some would see it.
But historically, 'committees' of men did make laws that violated a women's right to control her own body.
Do you get my point now?
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Using your twisted logic, this means a woman who is anti-abortion would have a more credible and valid opinion to you than a man who supports women's choice and bodily autonomy.
Yes I have to agree with your interpretation of that logic. We have all seen lots of pics./videos of women waving signs at other women in attempts to scare them away from entering abortion clinics. And check out how many men sat on the SCOC in 1988.
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I think temporary vasectomies should be mandatory for all young men, to avoid unwanted pregnancies. They can be reversed for wanted pregnancies, once they qualify with homes and sufficient salaries to support a family.
I think it should be at birth. Worldwide.
Then later it can be reversed, based on the decision of a committee of both men and women whose sole purpose is to decide who gets to give birth and who doesn't.
It seems absolutely obvious to me.
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Using your twisted logic, this means a woman who is anti-abortion would have a more credible and valid opinion to you than a man who supports women's choice and bodily autonomy.
You miss the point again:
Historically, men made those decisions for women, and presently in terms of representation in Parliament, they still would.
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I think it should be at birth. Worldwide.
Then later it can be reversed, based on the decision of a committee of both men and women whose sole purpose is to decide who gets to give birth and who doesn't.
It seems absolutely obvious to me.
Um, just to remind you, men don't give birth. So that's not only dumb, it's MLW type of dumb.
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Yes, it would violate a man's rights and I think women would see that.
Would a committee of men see that it violates a women's rights to make laws against abortion?
Depends. Some would see it.
So women would see that it violates rights... and some men would see that abortion is a right.... but men can't have an opinion on that. But women who are anti-abortion do have a right to an opinion...
so an anti-abortion woman's opinion is more valuable than a man who has pro-choice views...
But historically, 'committees' of men did make laws that violated a women's right to control her own body.
So what about those anti-abortion women? Valid viewpoint? What if they're on this committee?
Do you get my point now?
No... you are confused and illogical.
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Um, just to remind you, men don't give birth. So that's not only dumb, it's MLW type of dumb.
For crying out loud, what is your obsession with MLW? Give it a rest, why don't you?
Anyway, to your point. You do realize what the committee would be deciding on, right?
The woman involved would still be quite interested in the decision.
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So women would see that it violates rights... and some men would see that abortion is a right.... but men can't have an opinion on that. But women who are anti-abortion do have a right to an opinion...
so an anti-abortion woman's opinion is more valuable than a man who has pro-choice views...
So what about those anti-abortion women? Valid viewpoint? What if they're on this committee?
No... you are confused and illogical.
No, you are pretending to be a blockhead.
Men's opinions on abortion are irrelevant.
It isn't their body.
Clear enough?
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No, you are pretending to be a blockhead.
Men's opinions on abortion are irrelevant.
It isn't their body.
Clear enough?
I see what he's saying. Anyone's opinion on someone else's abortion is irrelevant.
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You miss the point again:
Historically, men made those decisions for women, and presently in terms of representation in Parliament, they still would.
SCC Judges during the Morgentaler case: Dickson, Robert George Brian; Beetz, Jean; Estey, Willard Zebedee; McIntyre, William Rogers; Lamer, Antonio; Wilson, Bertha; La Forest, Gérard V.
I bolded the men judges on the Supreme Court. 4 men and the 1 woman ruled in favour of abortion rights.
4 men.... they were men. Pro-choice judges who were men.
Your lack of respect for the opinions of an entire gender is the same mentality as those men who don't consider the opinion of women to be valid.
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No, you are pretending to be a blockhead.
Men's opinions on abortion are irrelevant.
It isn't their body.
Clear enough?
Yes, I get it. It's very clear. It's the same as some icky old man who doesn't want to hear from women... cuz they're women...
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????
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You really have to ask? Lol
I think temporart vasectomies should be mandatory for all young men, to avoid unwanted pregnancies. They can be reversed for wanted pregnancies, once they qualify with homes and sufficient salaries to support a family.
This unwanted random spreading of viable sperm has to stop!
I'll make sure the committee is stacked with women.
Lol
Or couples can just use multiple forms of birth control properly, and the guy can pull out at the end. I've never caused an unwanted pregnancy, because i'm extremely careful. It's not that hard.
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I think it should be at birth. Worldwide.
Then later it can be reversed, based on the decision of a committee of both men and women whose sole purpose is to decide who gets to give birth and who doesn't.
It seems absolutely obvious to me.
This is a horrifically disgusting form of government tyranny.
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You miss the point again:
Historically, men made those decisions for women, and presently in terms of representation in Parliament, they still would.
I've never met a man who wants to legislate what kind of surgery a woman they don't know can get or not get. Men don't care what women they don't know do to their bodies.
But once women start killing other human lives that they created through their own willful actions, that's everyone's business, and everyone is entitled to an opinion.
It doesn't really matter though, because I highly doubt Scheer will be dumb enough to touch this issue anyways.
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This is a horrifically disgusting form of government tyranny.
Yeah, but I'm okay with it. It's the only way I can think of to deal with climate change.
We've reached the stage now where tyranny is what it's going to take.
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Yeah, but I'm okay with it. It's the only way I can think of to deal with climate change.
We've reached the stage now where tyranny is what it's going to take.
Your idea applies to climate change how?
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Your idea applies to climate change how?
It would be a quick way to drastically reduce the population. Or should I say, it would have been. I had the idea many years ago. Strange how nobody listened. Look what happened!
Now, it's probably too late.
That said, it would make life easier for the few left behind if they had less competition for the resources. So I'm still up for it.
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Yeah, but I'm okay with it. It's the only way I can think of to deal with climate change.
We've reached the stage now where tyranny is what it's going to take.
Well fortunately nobody would play along and the plan would fail miserably.
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It would be a quick way to drastically reduce the population. Or should I say, it would have been. I had the idea many years ago. Strange how nobody listened. Look what happened!
Now, it's probably too late.
That said, it would make life easier for the few left behind if they had less competition for the resources. So I'm still up for it.
It's not so much the number of people but rather their understanding of basic science. Ya know, a hydro dam is a lot healthier way to produce heat/lights than burning coal.
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It would be a quick way to drastically reduce the population. Or should I say, it would have been. I had the idea many years ago. Strange how nobody listened. Look what happened!
Now, it's probably too late.
That said, it would make life easier for the few left behind if they had less competition for the resources. So I'm still up for it.
If Jill gets pregnant she could simply not report the pregnancy or the birth. Then what are you going to do? Start killing babies/children?
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It's not so much the number of people but rather their understanding of basic science. Ya know, a hydro dam is a lot healthier way to produce heat/lights than burning coal.
Everybody knows the science. They just don't care enough.
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If Jill gets pregnant she could simply not report the pregnancy or the birth. Then what are you going to do? Start killing babies/children?
Sure, but if everyone is sterile, how is she going to get pregnant?
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Well fortunately nobody would play along and the plan would fail miserably.
Dammit! I never thought of that!
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Dammit! I never thought of that!
It also seems clear to me that we need some sexy medical animations to help us visualize:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYXjsfmwKFc
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I've never met a man who wants to legislate what kind of surgery a woman they don't know can get or not get. Men don't care what women they don't know do to their bodies.
There's a few around who still think they should legislate women's clothing. If women are too covered up, it offends them. If they dress to skimpy, **** (r.a.p.e. is a censored word here?) being sexually assaulted is their fault.
Etc etc etc.
But once women start killing other human lives that they created through their own willful actions, that's everyone's business, and everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Opinion, sure. But not influence, authority, or even input into decisions: Not your body, not your business. Men had 'authority' over whether to create babies. Once they mess that up, a women's body is her business.
So ... we should just kill the men who caused the baby instead? Or just castrate them perhaps?
A deterrent for men is definitely needed. Obviously not all men follow your no-fault procedures ... and suddenly that's the women's fault?
Pretty twisted reasoning there PG.
It doesn't really matter though, because I highly doubt Scheer will be dumb enough to touch this issue anyways.
I think you're right about that, but Omni's right that one of his backbenchers might.
We need go be ready with some legislation to force men to take responsibility for unwanted pregnancies, and to prevent them from causing future unwanted pregnancies.
Macho-Male culture ... that celebrates sexual conquest as if it has no unwanted results, no consequences ... must be smashed.
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Opinion, sure. But not influence, authority, or even input into decisions: Not your body, not your business. Men had 'authority' over whether to create babies. Once they mess that up, a women's body is her business.
So ... we should just kill the men who caused the baby instead? Or just castrate them perhaps?
A deterrent for men is definitely needed. Obviously not all men follow your no-fault procedures ... and suddenly that's the women's fault?
Macho-Male culture ... that celebrates sexual conquest as if it has no unwanted results, no consequences ... must be smashed.
I'm with you on abortion, being 100% pro choice, but I disagree about the men thing. Unless it is actually ****, the authority over whether or not to create babies is shared. Both partners have an opportunity to ensure there is no procreation. (personally speaking, I always took that responsibility, because we didn't like the idea of a pill) That said, men ought to have a choice to have an abortion too. If they say they want to abort, the woman need not go through with it, (of course), but the man should be able to figuratively abort, and have nothing to do with the child again.
By the way, I support your right to express your hatred in there. I'm not keen on the killing or castration though.
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That said, men ought to have a choice to have an abortion too. If they say they want to abort, the woman need not go through with it, (of course), but the man should be able to figuratively abort, and have nothing to do with the child again.
If the man helped create the child, he needs to take responsibility for the child. There is no "figurative abortion". You can't opt-in by ejaculating life-creating semen into a **** because it's convenient for you (gives you pleasure), and then opt-out when a baby is conceived because it's not convenient for you anymore.
People need to be responsible for their actions.
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If the man helped create the child, he needs to take responsibility for the child. There is no "figurative abortion". You can't opt-in by ejaculating life-creating semen into a **** because it's convenient for you (gives you pleasure), and then opt-out when a baby is conceived because it's not convenient for you anymore.
People need to be responsible for their actions.
No, they don't. A woman can abort her actions (rightfully so), and so should a man be able to.
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There's a few around who still think they should legislate women's clothing. If women are too covered up, it offends them. If they dress to skimpy, **** (r.a.p.e. is a censored word here?) being sexually assaulted is their fault.
Yes, it does appear to be the same group that hold both opinions.
So ... we should just kill the men who caused the baby instead? Or just castrate them perhaps?
Interesting option. If you don't want to take responsibility, then fine you will be castrated.
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I'm with you on abortion, being 100% pro choice, but I disagree about the men thing. Unless it is actually ****, the authority over whether or not to create babies is shared. Both partners have an opportunity to ensure there is no procreation. (personally speaking, I always took that responsibility, because we didn't like the idea of a pill) That said, men ought to have a choice to have an abortion too. If they say they want to abort, the woman need not go through with it, (of course), but the man should be able to figuratively abort, and have nothing to do with the child again.
Absolute nonsense!
A man accepts responsibility for possibly creating and supporting a child for life, financially and emotionally, everytime he has sex with a woman.
End of story.
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Absolute nonsense!
A man accepts responsibility for possibly creating and supporting a child for life, financially and emotionally, everytime he has sex with a woman.
End of story.
Absolute nonsense. Primitive nonsense too. Sexist claptrap.
Both parties are responsible for their actions. Both parties should have the choice whether or not to accept that responsibility.
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No, they don't. A woman can abort her actions (rightfully so), and so should a man be able to.
Biological reality is ... No, a man cannot 'abort' after conception.
You had your chance before conception.
A man's carelessness is a man's choice and his consequences.
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Biological reality is ... No, a man cannot 'abort' after conception.
You had your chance before conception.
A man's carelessness is a man's choice and his consequences.
That's why I said figuratively.
Carelessness doesn't discriminate by sex.
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Absolute nonsense. Primitive nonsense too. Sexist claptrap.
Both parties are responsible for their actions. Both parties should have the choice whether or not to accept that responsibility.
No.
Her body, her choice.
A man's choice is to make sure he doesn't conceive a baby. If he is careless and does, he may have to support a child.
That's reality.
Men don't get to weasel out of their responsibilities for the children they create.
End of story.
I can't believe we are still having a discussion where there is no discussion.
That's why I jumped to the conclusion that men who refuse to take responsibility for the children they create should perhaps suffer very serious consequences, as a deterrent, because obviously, some still take no responsibility.
I was joking about castration and death, of course. Lol
But there should a warning of some kind - a whistle and a voice saying 'This orgasm could cost you half a million dollars!' (Ie, child support)
Lol p
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No.
Her body, her choice.
A man's choice is to make sure he doesn't conceive a baby. If he is careless and does, he may have to support a child.
That's reality.
Men don't get to weasel out of their responsibilities for the children they create.
End of story.
You keep saying "End of story" as though that matters.
A man should have exactly the same rights regarding a potential baby as a woman. Choice is what matters. A woman gets to decide they don't want responsibility for their carelessness, and a man should be get the same choice.
I would say "End of story", but it's not like you'd stop arguing.
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You keep saying "End of story" as though that matters.
A man should have exactly the same rights regarding a potential baby as a woman. Choice is what matters. A woman gets to decide they don't want responsibility for their carelessness, and a man should be get the same choice.
I would say "End of story", but it's not like you'd stop arguing.
You've lost contact with biological reality.
Lol
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You've lost contact with biological reality.
Lol
Sure, if you want.
Lol
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Both parties are responsible for their actions. Both parties should have the choice whether or not to accept that responsibility.
The choice is made when both parties consent to having the pee-pee ejaculate into the ying-yang, IMO,
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The choice is made when both parties consent to having the pee-pee ejaculate into the ying-yang, IMO,
I agree. Then later, a second choice might be made. By either party.
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I agree. Then later, a second choice might be made. By either party.
Not your body.
Not your business.
End of story.
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Not your body.
Not your business.
End of story.
There you go again. It's none of your business either. But we can argue about it as much as we want.
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There you go again. It's none of your business either. But we can argue about it as much as we want.
Nah.
You're boring.
.
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Nah.
You're boring.
.
If I was boring you wouldn't keep trying to make a point with me. But you might say so if you can't.
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Such an interesting election!
https://winnipeg.citynews.ca/2019/07/24/approval-ratings-canada-federal-election-poll/
Who do we want as Prime Minister?
Elizabeth May - 42%
Justin Trudeau - 41%
Andrew Scheer - 36%
Jagmeet Singh - 35%
Maxime Bernier - 21%
What are the important issues?
Meantime, the survey shows the top issues for voters are jobs, the economy, and healthcare. The environment, housing, homelessness, poverty, and immigration were also among the issues of most concern.
Research Co. said leadership and accountability, energy and pipelines, crime, safety, and public and foreign affairs were not as highly prioritized by survey takers.
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Bernie Sanders for Prime Minister. He's from Vermont, which borders Canada, he's practically Canadian lol.
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What are the important issues?
Meantime, the survey shows the top issues for voters are jobs, the economy, and healthcare.
So... the electorate are idiots, basically. Jobs are plentiful, the economy is good and they don't understand anything about healthcare and they do NOT demand a forum to improve it.
I would put our top concerns as:
1 National left/right unity
2 & 3 Retooling for global trade and climate change
4 Restructure government services, so that people see the value that they are delivering
Bernie Sanders for Prime Minister. He's from Vermont, which borders Canada, he's practically Canadian lol.
I believe the sole president from Vermont was Chester Allan Arthur (sp?) who was rumoured to be actually Canadian.
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So... the electorate are idiots, basically. Jobs are plentiful, the economy is good and they don't understand anything about healthcare and they do NOT demand a forum to improve it.
I would put our top concerns as:
1 National left/right unity
2 & 3 Retooling for global trade and climate change
4 Restructure government services, so that people see the value that they are delivering
I'm curious what you mean by that last one, MH?
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I'm curious what you mean by that last one, MH?
Services need to be connected to their consumers and the citizenry ...
There will be huge benefits when we discover that needs to be done. The country will be transformed into something new, and something old at the same time.
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So... the electorate are idiots, basically.
Jobs are plentiful,
Ya if you live in Toronto. Not if you're anywhere connected to our oil industry, which has been obliterated the last several years and lots of people in that industry lost their well-paying jobs. A reason why Alberta is PO'd. Not to mention the politics around pipelines.
the economy is good
It's ok. It's actually been stagnant the last couple of years if you follow the TSX, and foreign investment has fled the country in droves because of it and our struggling oil-dependent economy which has been gutted by the low global price of oil. Anyone, like seniors, who have money in Canadian markets aren't pleased either.
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Ya if you live in Toronto. Not if you're anywhere connected to our oil industry, which has been obliterated the last several years and lots of people in that industry lost their well-paying jobs. A reason why Alberta is PO'd. Not to mention the politics around pipelines.
Right. I keep forgetting about Alberta, and hope to in the foreseeable future. Their boy Harper was whole hog into having a 'resource' economy, with the ups and downs. So, ok they are concerned but when prices go back up again they'll all be geniuses.
It's ok. It's actually been stagnant the last couple of years if you follow the TSX, and foreign investment has fled the country in droves because of it and our struggling oil-dependent economy which has been gutted by the low global price of oil. Anyone, like seniors, who have money in Canadian markets aren't pleased either.
Still, it's ok.
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Beware of election Twitter bots
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/fake-twitter-accounts-push-hashtag-trudeaumustgo-report-1.4514237?cache=yes%3FclipId%3D89926%3Fot%3DAjaxLayout%3FclipId%3D89950&fbclid=IwAR0UvtvDDH9ZE19YjUFcW6zo0ZH-vSmrvEqspHlDmsAoG3vXMSV5QyeoLZ0
Canada Proud
The oil boys, perhaps?
Curious: Can anyone point to Liberal, Green or NDP 3rd party campaigns using Twitter bots?
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Not going to read it but Canada Proud and Ontario Proud are more like lowbrow political online groups.
North 99 is the liberal equivalent.
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Not going to read it but Canada Proud and Ontario Proud are more like lowbrow political online groups.
North 99 is the liberal equivalent.
Canada Proud has the sole mission statement of ousting Trudeau for its own sake.
At least North 99 is an advocacy group with some actual ideals behind several campaigns, like healthcare, gun control, opposing racist groups and taxing the wealthy to contribute their fair share.
North99 - “we stand for sensible gun control, free healthcare for all, and an increase in free prescription drugs”
Canada Proud - “**** Trudeau. We hate him”
There is no equivalency there that I can see. Correct me if I’m wrong.
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Sort of. Canada Proud won't disband if Trudeau loses of course.
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Sort of. Canada Proud won't disband if Trudeau loses of course.
Where did I say they would disband?
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Where did I say they would disband?
Well, if that's their mission then...
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Well, if that's their mission then...
By all means, tell me what their other goals are... I couldn’t find any from CanadaProud.org
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By all means, tell me what their other goals are... I couldn’t find any from CanadaProud.org
Once Trudeau is gone they will continue.
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Once Trudeau is gone they will continue.
I never said they wouldn’t. Why are you making up a point that that no one has argued for? You created a straw man.
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Then how can it be that
'Canada Proud has the sole mission statement of ousting Trudeau for its own sake' ?
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Then how can it be that
'Canada Proud has the sole mission statement of ousting Trudeau for its own sake' ?
Then tell me their other goals. I said I am ready to be corrected if I am wrong. I couldn’t find anything else on their website. Please enlighten me.
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Then tell me their other goals. I said I am ready to be corrected if I am wrong. I couldn’t find anything else on their website. Please enlighten me.
They may have stated that as their mission statement somewhere but clearly it's wrong. It's not on you - it's on them.
Do you think that if Scheer wins they will disband ? Ontario Proud probably had a mission to defeat Wynne, period. They're still around.
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They may have stated that as their mission statement somewhere but clearly it's wrong. It's not on you - it's on them.
Do you think that if Scheer wins they will disband ? Ontario Proud probably had a mission to defeat Wynne, period. They're still around.
I have no idea if they will disband. I don’t even care. I have no idea why you’re even going on about this.
All I said was that the North99 group and this group are not equivalent and gave reasons why. Then you started going off on a bizarre tangent. ::)
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Canada Strong and Proud
= Ontario Proud, Canada Proud ... etc.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-strong-proud-robocalls-third-party-federal-election-1.5225301
And on it goes ...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/devin-drover-nl-strong-1.5129080
https://www.strongandproud.ca/
Anybody want to guess whose money is behind this?
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1. I have no idea if they will disband. I don’t even care. I have no idea why you’re even going on about this.
2. All I said was that the North99 group and this group are not equivalent and gave reasons why. Then you started going off on a bizarre tangent. ::)
1. Because they are the same thing as North 99, and neither one is particularly great for public discussion.
2. And this is why your reasons aren't correct: they don't have a different mission despite what Canada Proud says.
Agree to disagree.
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1. Because they are the same thing as North 99, and neither one is particularly great for public discussion.
2. And this is why your reasons aren't correct: they don't have a different mission despite what Canada Proud says.
Agree to disagree.
So what are the goals of CanadaProud? Healthcare? Anything at all?
It’s like saying Taxme and Kimmy are the equivalent posters because they’re both a member of this forum...
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So what are the goals of CanadaProud? Healthcare? Anything at all?
To get people to vote Conservative.
That's pretty obvious.
I'm not sure what favours they're actually buying from the Conservatives, though.
But likely continued subsidies for fossil fuels for one. Lol
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So what are the goals of CanadaProud? Healthcare? Anything at all?
It’s like saying Taxme and Kimmy are the equivalent posters because they’re both a member of this forum...
Are you asking how they're similar? I would say the format.
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Are you asking how they're similar? I would say the format.
No. I'm asking what I'm asking. The question was in plain language. No need for interpretation.
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The goals of these things are to promote their political flavour.
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And be moderated by you? No way. :P
There are plenty of other topics about election issues.
I was criticized for creating this thread, then people also getting miffed about talking general federal issues in the Green Party topic.
So here you go folks.
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I was listening to a Montreal radio station (CJAD) in the car today, and apparently Harper & Muclair were spotted having lunch together at the Ritz-Carlton; strange bedfellows.
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That is very, very odd. Do I smell a coalition minority gov in the works?
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That is very, very odd. Do I smell a coalition minority gov in the works?
ah, you're quoting Dean Del Mastro now. Is he out of jail already? ;)
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That is very, very odd. Do I smell a coalition minority gov in the works?
Well!
Things certainly are getting different this time. Lol
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Canada Strong and Proud
= Ontario Proud, Canada Proud ... etc.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-strong-proud-robocalls-third-party-federal-election-1.5225301
And on it goes ...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/devin-drover-nl-strong-1.5129080
https://www.strongandproud.ca/
Anybody want to guess whose money is behind this?
Canadians always want money out of politics, except when it's backing a cause they support.
-k
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Well!
Things certainly are getting different this time. Lol
Desperate times call for desperate measures I suppose. But coalition gov's are a reality in a minority gov situation, I would expect any parties with any smarts to at least get a feel for what kind of support they have out there.
I think all of the parties are not just bad, but dangerously bad, as are their leaders. I think the CPC are too right on social issues, and all the other parties (besides the nut Bernier) are too left on many other issues. That's why my preferred outcome in this election is a CPC minority where they team up with a leftwing party to form a coalition government. That way the CPC and the lefting party (NDP/Greens/Liberals) could veto each other's most extreme ideological policies. So we'd be left with a moderate government.
If the Liberals or Greens won a minority they'd likely team with another leftwing party to form government, and they'd we'd be effed.
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Desperate times call for desperate measures I suppose. But coalition gov's are a reality in a minority gov situation, I would expect any parties with any smarts to at least get a feel for what kind of support they have out there.
I think all of the parties are not just bad, but dangerously bad, as are their leaders. I think the CPC are too right on social issues, and all the other parties (besides the nut Bernier) are too left on many other issues. That's why my preferred outcome in this election is a CPC minority where they team up with a leftwing party to form a coalition government. That way the CPC and the lefting party (NDP/Greens/Liberals) could veto each other's most extreme ideological policies. So we'd be left with a moderate government.
If the Liberals or Greens won a minority they'd likely team with another leftwing party to form government, and they'd we'd be effed.
I doubt you'll see your CPC minority since they keep losing ground as Scheer can't seem to come up with any clear answers on important issues. (Same sex marriage, abortion, climate etc.) It will be interesting to see how he does in the upcoming debates. I suspect he will stumble even worse there allowing JT to come away with the minority.
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Harper showed up to more debates than JT will.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/andrew-coyne-trudeau-is-gaming-the-election-debate-system-just-like-harper-before-him
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Harper showed up to more debates than JT will.
Exclusive debates are not worth showing up to, that was the problem. Showing up for a rally is not showing up for a debate.
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Exclusive debates are not worth showing up to, that was the problem. Showing up for a rally is not showing up for a debate.
Fact remains... Trudeau is ducking debates.
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Harper showed up to more debates than JT will.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/andrew-coyne-trudeau-is-gaming-the-election-debate-system-just-like-harper-before-him
From the article:
"That’s the tragedy of the debates commission. It was an opportunity to overhaul the debates, transforming them from the disgrace to democracy they have too often been in the past into a vital new instrument of it. Instead the Liberals once again promised one thing and delivered another. The point of the commission was supposedly to prevent leaders from gaming the system, not to enable them."
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Fact remains... Trudeau is ducking debates.
Coyne's point is that now that we have these "official debates", Trudeau can show up to them and say "well i've done the official debates, that's my only obligation" as cover to duck the other debates, so it's being used as a tool:
"But it’s scarcely better for his successor to game the system in the opposition direction, using the official debates as an excuse to ditch the others." - Coyne
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Exclusive debates are not worth showing up to, that was the problem. Showing up for a rally is not showing up for a debate.
Both Harper and Trudeau seek/sought to limit exposure, that was the whole strategy. Trudeau will attend one single english debate. French debates are a kind of exclusive debate since much of the country can't speak french so again exposure is limited.
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Both Harper and Trudeau seek/sought to limit exposure, that was the whole strategy. Trudeau will attend one single english debate. French debates are a kind of exclusive debate since much of the country can't speak french so again exposure is limited.
A little over 20% of Canadians speak French as their mother tongue and they mostly live in riding's that have a large influence over federal elections. Exposure therefore is very important if you are serious.
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A little over 20% of Canadians speak French as their mother tongue and they mostly live in riding's that have a large influence over federal elections. Exposure therefore is very important if you are serious.
Yes i agree.
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Obstruction of justice anyone? Looks like Trump isn't the only one doing it...allegedly. All hail King Justin...off with their heads!
Ottawa blocks RCMP on SNC-Lavalin inquiry: The RCMP has been looking into potential obstruction of justice in the handling of the prosecution of SNC-Lavalin Group Inc., but its examination has been stymied by the federal government’s refusal to lift cabinet confidentiality for all witnesses, The Globe and Mail has learned.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-ottawa-blocks-rcmp-on-snc-lavalin-inquiry/
The SNC-Lavalin scandal is back in the headlines as federal party leaders kick off the first day of the election campaign.
Shortly before the launch of the campaign, the Globe and Mail published a report saying the federal government is blocking attempts by the RCMP to look into the SNC-Lavalin scandal and whether the government’s actions amount to obstruction of justice.
That reportedly includes attempts to speak with individuals who say they are being stymied by the government’s refusal to lift cabinet confidentiality rules.
However, no formal investigation has begun.
...
“I’m calling on Justin Trudeau to do the right thing and immediately waive full privilege so those individuals can testify to the RCMP,” [Scheer] said. “If he had nothing to hide, he would waive the privilege and let the RCMP do their work.”
https://globalnews.ca/news/5887824/snc-lavalin-rcmp-inquiry-canada-election/
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Obstruction of justice anyone? Looks like Trump isn't the only one doing it...allegedly. All hail King Justin...off with their heads!
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-ottawa-blocks-rcmp-on-snc-lavalin-inquiry/
https://globalnews.ca/news/5887824/snc-lavalin-rcmp-inquiry-canada-election/
Yeah we all heard Scheer trying to flog that dead horse today at his press gaggle, and it went nowhere. I guess he hasn't got much to offer looking ahead so he focuses on the rear view. Most Canadians have put the SNC issue to bed some time ago.
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A little over 20% of Canadians speak French as their mother tongue and they mostly live in riding's that have a large influence over federal elections. Exposure therefore is very important if you are serious.
Of course an argument could be made that Quebec has a tendency to vote for the politician from Quebec anyways, so any time spent campaigning in Quebec is a waste since they'll just vote for Trudeau over the english guys.
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Canada Strong and Proud
= Ontario Proud, Canada Proud ... etc.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-strong-proud-robocalls-third-party-federal-election-1.5225301
And on it goes ...
Yup..... there is a 3rd party group (that, despite rules requiring independence, involves former Tories) that is campaigning in a way to champion 'conservative' causes.
Bad practice? A bit sketchy? No doubt.
But, they are only following the lead of the Liberals. Engage Canada is a union-backed group that has run ads targeting Conservatives. And just like "Ontario Proud", Engage Canada employs people who were also involved in Federal politics.
From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/third-party-ads-raptors-1.5170921
Leaning to the other side of the political spectrum is Engage Canada, which ran two short ads during the game painting Scheer as a "yes man" to Ontario Premier Doug Ford. Engage spokeswoman Tabitha Bernard wouldn't say who runs the group, but former NDP strategist Kathleen Monk — now a principal with the Earnscliffe Strategy Group and a frequent contributor to CBC's Power & Politics's power panel — former Liberal staffer Dave Gene, executive assistant to the Provincial Building and Construction Trades Council of Ontario Igor Delov, and Peter Kennedy of the Canadian Autoworkers Union are all listed as directors on the group's corporate records.
And such ties go far beyond the current election. (They were especially noticeable in certain Ontario elections, where union groups regularly attacked the P.C.s)
So yeah, the conservatives are following the lead of the liberals, who are much more accomplished at the "We're not coordinating with any political party...we just have a bunch of Liberals running our 3rd party".
And it should be noted that since groups like Engage Canada are union backed, and in many cases Union membership is mandatory in certain jobs, then you could in theory get someone who supports the conservative party but ends up funding anti-conservative ads through the 3rd party/union links.
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Yup..... there is a 3rd party group (that, despite rules requiring independence, involves former Tories) that is campaigning in a way to champion 'conservative' causes.
Bad practice? A bit sketchy? No doubt.
But, they are only following the lead of the Liberals. Engage Canada is a union-backed group that has run ads targeting Conservatives. And just like "Ontario Proud", Engage Canada employs people who were also involved in Federal politics.
From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/third-party-ads-raptors-1.5170921
Leaning to the other side of the political spectrum is Engage Canada, which ran two short ads during the game painting Scheer as a "yes man" to Ontario Premier Doug Ford. Engage spokeswoman Tabitha Bernard wouldn't say who runs the group, but former NDP strategist Kathleen Monk — now a principal with the Earnscliffe Strategy Group and a frequent contributor to CBC's Power & Politics's power panel — former Liberal staffer Dave Gene, executive assistant to the Provincial Building and Construction Trades Council of Ontario Igor Delov, and Peter Kennedy of the Canadian Autoworkers Union are all listed as directors on the group's corporate records.
And such ties go far beyond the current election. (They were especially noticeable in certain Ontario elections, where union groups regularly attacked the P.C.s)
So yeah, the conservatives are following the lead of the liberals, who are much more accomplished at the "We're not coordinating with any political party...we just have a bunch of Liberals running our 3rd party".
And it should be noted that since groups like Engage Canada are union backed, and in many cases Union membership is mandatory in certain jobs, then you could in theory get someone who supports the conservative party but ends up funding anti-conservative ads through the 3rd party/union links.
It's where they mark their X on the ballot that actually counts.
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I am confused. How can the RCMP be blocked if no formal investigation has begun. Does Scheer want all Cabinet secrets made public just for fun?
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Trudeau comes off looking chicken-$hit by skipping the debate when the other leaders are there.
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Trudeau comes off looking chicken-$hit by skipping the debate when the other leaders are there.
Honesty it might be for the best. Nobody gives a f*** what Trudeau has to say anyways, we know what his positions are, and the debate would have been filled with the other leaders attacking him anyways. I want to hear what these other 3 have to say and about their ideas.
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Trudeau comes off looking chicken-$hit by skipping the debate when the other leaders are there.
Yes definitely but I can't remember any time an election was lost and people said "if they had only done that debate..."
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Yes definitely but I can't remember any time an election was lost and people said "if they had only done that debate..."
Especially a particular debate. Do we really need any more than two debates (one English and one French)?
The other issues is that the federal party leaders ought to be irrelevant in our system of government. Prime Minister is not analogous to the president of the United States. We don't even vote for our prime minister. They are literally just another member of parliament, who leads the government bench. They also need the confidence (ie, support) of the House to form government and for the government to continue.
So the whole idea of having numerous federal leaders' debates is meaningless nonsense. One in each language should suffice, then you should go to your local candidates' debates because those are the people you will vote on.
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Prime Minister is not analogous to the president of the United States. We don't even vote for our prime minister. They are literally just another member of parliament, who leads the government bench.
You really haven't been paying attention the last 150 years or so.
Our government is completely run by the PMO. This is what Michael Chong has been trying to change for years, but he's pretty impotent being just a backbench MP, even when it was his party in power.
Rafe Mair (I miss that guy!!) says it well:
https://commonground.ca/know-thy-activist-carrots-sticks-parliament/
To understand the way the system really works, one must know that since 1867 only one majority government has had to resign. In 1873, before true party discipline had evolved, Sir John A. Macdonald, with a tiny majority and perceiving he could lose a vote over the Pacific Scandal, resigned. All prime ministers since have, through strictly enforced party discipline, kept ironclad control over their members.
The method, simplicity itself and 100% effective, only requires some carrots and sticks.
The carrots? It starts with little things like promising to visit the MP’s constituency, and perhaps attend a rally; or sending the MP to a tropical isle for a useless convention in the middle of an Ottawa winter. Even better, there’s cabinet, double the money, a car and driver, first class travel, a permanent Honourable in front of his name, and the virtual certainty of a cushy job when he retires.
Now the sticks: the PM can demote or fire a minister or a parliamentary assistant, but if the MP votes against a PM in a major vote, here’s what happens, as Liberal MP John Nunziata in 1993 and Tory Bill Casey in 2007 found when they broke ranks. By the time the Liberal MP gets back to his office from his fatal vote, he’ll have an email from the PMO expelling him from the Liberal caucus and the Liberal Party, meaning he can’t run under the Liberal banner again. In short, the political version of capital punishment.
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The trouble is that MPs are cowards. They could bring down the government any time they want by voting no confidence. They don't because they prefer to fly a party banner rather than sticking up for their constituents' interests. Chong could have voted against Harper any time he wanted.
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The trouble is that MPs are cowards. They could bring down the government any time they want by voting no confidence. They don't because they prefer to fly a party banner rather than sticking up for their constituents' interests. Chong could have voted against Harper any time he wanted.
Yes... in theory, the MPs just need to vote against their own gov't. In practice, the PMO has a stranglehold on which bills get passed, unless there is a minority government.
I think Chong is one of the few MPs that has actually been fighting for a proper balance of power in gov't. even while Harper was PM.
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Of course an argument could be made that Quebec has a tendency to vote for the politician from Quebec anyways, so any time spent campaigning in Quebec is a waste since they'll just vote for Trudeau over the english guys.
People vote for an MP in their area.
They are Quebeckers.
Trudeau is not a sure bet at all in Quebec, lived his life in Ottawa and BC.
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Watching the Macleans debate sans Trudeau.
Singh performed poorly, he's filled mostly with vague talking points, he's clearly not ready for the big show.
May and Scheer held their own.
The moderator should have done better at preventing people from interrupting each other.
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Trudeau is not a sure bet at all in Quebec, lived his life in Ottawa and BC.
What, he lived in Montreal for many years. He was a young teenager (about 13 or 14) when dad retired from politics and returned to Montreal and he stayed there to go to University and returned after being out west as well. While he is in Ottawa most of the time now, he still maintains a residence in Montreal as well and can often be spotted around town.
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Singh performed poorly, he's filled mostly with vague talking points, he's clearly not ready for the big show.
Agreed, he was a big disappointment.
May and Scheer held their own.
I am only half way through, but Scheer was not very forceful in his convictions.
The moderator should have done better at preventing people from interrupting each other.
Yes, the debate was poorly moderated. It also was continually interrupted by the talking heads; keep that for after the debate so I can tune it out. If this is what we can expect from CTV/McLean's then no wonder Trudeau didn't take them seriously.
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Just have to Lol, impact.
Tell us again how Trudeau plans to build TMX?
He is only treading water, going nowhere useful.
We need better brains and intentions in the PMO.
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Ah no, it's looking ahead to Scheer's likely hidden agenda again.
I don't think Scheer's agenda is hidden.
It's straight out of a 1950's playbook. Lol
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049261/
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If the Liberals win a majority, Alberta will break off of Canada.
If you care about our country, please vote for Andrew Sheer and the Conservative Party of Canada.
please educate yourself as to how little support for separatism there is in Alberta - separate out the blowhardy red-necks from 'regular folk', hey! Weren't you the rig-pig who wants to blame the current Liberal Party for the absence of a pipeline "to tidewater"? While you're beaking off perhaps showcase just what tidewater pipeline Harper/Kenny managed to bring forward after a decade in government - sure you can! Apparently, a Liberal government supporting KXL and purchasing TMX to keep it viable... drives your separatist bent - yes?
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If the Liberals win a majority, Alberta will break off of Canada.
If you care about our country, please vote for Andrew Sheer and the Conservative Party of Canada.
The Liberals will win a minority. Most thinking Canadians have heard enough of Scheers flip flops to know they don't want him. Especially with regard to the abortion issue we have long ago dealt with.
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Of course an argument could be made that Quebec has a tendency to vote for the politician from Quebec anyways, so any time spent campaigning in Quebec is a waste since they'll just vote for Trudeau over the english guys.
People vote for an MP in their area.
They are Quebeckers.
Trudeau is not a sure bet at all in Quebec, lived his life in Ottawa and BC.
Fine, if you want to nitpick, I should have said:
Quebecers tend to vote for the party who's leader is from Quebec.
(I figured the meaning of my statement is clear. Yes, I recognize that people vote for MPs rather than for a Prime Minister. But in many/most cases, the identity of their local candidates is less important than who the Prime Ministerial candidate is.)
We've seen that time and time again... For years, Quebec voted for the Liberals under Trudeau Sr., even when his support had dropped off in the rest of Canada. (Even when the conservatives had a minority government under Clark, Quebec stayed loyal to the Liberals.) Then, Turner (who may have some ties to Quebec but was largely seen as an outsider) becomes Liberal leader, Mulroney (from Quebec) becomes Conservative leader, then all of a sudden the conservatives are the ones winning Quebec. Later, you had Chretien, and the BQ, both seen as Quebecers, and they get Quebec support. The only election in recent history that defies that trend was the 2011 election when the NDP had the most support in Quebec, but then, the Liberals and Conservatives both had non-Quebecers as candidates.
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Fine, if you want to nitpick, I should have said:
Quebecers tend to vote for the party who's leader is from Quebec.
It certainly did not work for Stephane Dion.
Lol
You are oversimplifying.
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Uh-oh.... not a good look Justin.... not a good look....
(https://i.cbc.ca/1.5289171.1568848992!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/justin-trudeau-brownface.jpg)
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-brownface-arabian-nights-1.5289165?cmp=google-amp_comments#comments-15289165
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John Dobbin appears to be freaking out. He wants him to resign and never be seen in public again.
https://twitter.com/jdobbin/status/1174468025073963008?s=19
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Somebody put ointment on Waldo... quick... he's going to get a rash...
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Utter hypocrisy. The Liberal tactic of unearthing past transgressions would have to stop immediately.
JT admitted this isn't the only time either.
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Utter hypocrisy. The Liberal tactic of unearthing past transgressions would have to stop immediately.
Well that would be a good thing.
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Still, there would have to be exceptions:
Crimes
Threats of violence
Actual racist affiliations, not made-up ones
What else ?
Being an Ottawa Senators fan maybe..
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I’m not a pc kinda guy... but it would never have occurred to me that putting on “blackface” was an ok thing to do... not even in the 80s/90s whe I was young and dumb(er)...
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I’m not a pc kinda guy... but it would never have occurred to me that putting on “blackface” was an ok thing to do... not even in the 80s/90s whe I was young and dumb(er)...
He was 29. Not a whole lot younger than Scheer is now.
I wouldn't try to make too much hay about this if I was the CPC. He did offer an unqualified apology.
But this does speak to JTs pathetic judgement. And the Liberals need to stop digging up past dirt on CPC politicians immediately.
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He was 29. Not a whole lot older than Scheer is now.
I wouldn't try to make too much hay about this if I was the CPC. He did offer an unqualified apology.
But this does speak to JTs pathetic judgement. And the Liberals need to stop digging up past dirt on CPC politicians immediately.
Yeah, he seems like a truly shitty person.
But I also consider people like Scheer to be shitty who hold anti-gay, anti-women’s rights views.
The worst part might be that he was teaching kids.
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And today we're learning that politicians are worse people than us.
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Speak for yourself.
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He was 29. Not a whole lot younger than Scheer is now.
I wouldn't try to make too much hay about this if I was the CPC. He did offer an unqualified apology.
But this does speak to JTs pathetic judgement. And the Liberals need to stop digging up past dirt on CPC politicians immediately.
you pointing out age & judgement has the waldo NOT excuse qualifying here; rather, just offering question/comment: On a societal level, in "the past", would it always have been considered racist - as racist, as it is today, particularly something like 'being in the Aladdin character' - should I mention the 100+ actors Disney had in blackface in 2018's remake of Aladdin - 2018? Or the several 'A list' actors, in "the past", who have worn blackface in character?
in any case, yes, as you say - PM Trudeau did make an unqualified apology... and according to Scheer, "apologize and its all good".
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Not even partisan hacks have an excuse for this.... haha :D
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Not even partisan hacks have an excuse for this.... haha :D
You’re a bigger hack than Waldo.... who knew...?
squiggy, did you wet yourself when you dropped that pic? I'm shocked it was you! Clearly you feel quite emboldened, hey! ;D Please, step away from your dumb post tagging more often!
as the GP hack you are, excuse away:
(https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7774/16892001903_e6c1060da0.jpg)
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:D @ Trudeau. So around 2001 he dresses in brown face and sexually assaulted a female reporter.
Fast forward to the present, he's dressing up as Indian stereotypes and bullying/intimidating multiple female MP's, including a black MP.
This guy is a hypocrite clueless piece of crap. Lesson to parents: sometimes it's ok to spank your kids.
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:D @ Trudeau. So around 2001 he dresses in brown face and sexually assaulted a female reporter.
so in 2005 Scheer dressed as his homophobic self to officially read into the formal Parliamentary record a comparison of same-sex couples to dogs - that's a fact Jack... unlike your allegation. More pointedly, in recent days, weak Andy did his 'just apologize and it's all good' routine while categorically refusing to apologize for his SSM-dog comparison... even when given 2 distinctly separate opportunities to do so!
(https://i.imgur.com/Iec988G.jpg)
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Because Scheer doesn’t like the gays, Trudeau can be a racist? Oh man.... gotta love the “but he did it” excuses. Those are always good.
I just hope this puts the Libs into minority territory.
Sure my Greens will only win 2-4 seats... but no one said drunken May would be PM this election. :D
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Trudeau has shown himself to have poor judgement and probably lower character than thought. It's not enough for him to step down, and people already knew him to be prone to frat-boy behaviour in his groping of a reporter...
This does not in any way equate with someone having a religious exception to same-sex marriage, no.
And all of this is helping us clarify what mud-slinging is in 2019:
- Candidates have had to step down for uttering threats, openly supporting white pride, assaults.
- They have been allowed to stay for racist behaviours that were not ideological, religious and personal stances against abortion (which oddly may include every party leader though Bernier is pro-choice LOL)
The lines get drawn with every new one.
didn't weak Andy say, 'if they apologize... its all good'?
Yup
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Video has surfaced of 3rd instance of Justin in racist blackface makeup: https://globalnews.ca/news/5922861/justin-trudeau-brownface-video/
I've never been in blackface, this guy has done it at least x3. So weird.
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I think Chong is one of the few MPs that has actually been fighting for a proper balance of power in gov't. even while Harper was PM.
The problem with Chong is that he's not a Conservative. Conservatives chose Scheer as their leader. Conservatives are the ones attacking him in the media for his views. He may be fighting for a balance of power, but he's actually struggling with the cognitive dissonance of flying the Conservative banner without aligning with their worldview.
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So when the Faith Goldy picture failed spectacularly and blew up in Scheer's face, he decided to dig up this "brownface"pic instead. Nice.
So are we going to talk about political decisions and policies any time soon or can I expect more reality TV trash until the ballots open?
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So when the Faith Goldy picture failed spectacularly and blew up in Scheer's face, he decided to dig up this "brownface"pic instead. Nice.
So are we going to talk about political decisions and policies any time soon or can I expect more reality TV trash until the ballots open?
3 instances of Black Face. THREE!!!!!!
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The Liberals have made virtue signalling and digging up past transgressions of opponents a party plank.
Well that goes away today. Their leader has done overtly racist things multiple times. Sure times have changed and he's apologized. But that doesn't wash away the object hypocrisy of JT.
Had this been a Liberal candidate in wherever they'd have been out of the party before JT left Halifax last night.
Sheer wanted this election to be all about policy and not about digging up dirt about things done in the past. . . well now it is.
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Sheer wanted this election to be all about policy and not about digging up dirt about things done in the past. . . well now it is.
If he did, then he would have made it about that.
Scheer still hasn't revealed ANY policies.
So either never actually said that or he's flat out lying.
Regardless, you seem perfectly fine justifying it. Do we really need to sit here and discuss how appalling blackface is? Every civilized person is in agreement. Great.
So what practical things are the parties going to do? Because right now, Scheer hasn't told us anything. His platform is, "I'm not Trudeau." That's great, but neither is Bernier, May, or Singh.
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If he did, then he would have made it about that.
Scheer still hasn't revealed ANY policies.
So either never actually said that or he's flat out lying.
Regardless, you seem perfectly fine justifying it. Do we really need to sit here and discuss how appalling blackface is? Every civilized person is in agreement. Great.
So what practical things are the parties going to do? Because right now, Scheer hasn't told us anything. His platform is, "I'm not Trudeau." That's great, but neither is Bernier, May, or Singh.
There have been a lot of policy announcements made this week for all the parties. To say Scheer hasn't done any is just dishonest. What has he been doing? He hasn't been talking about Blackface.
I'm don't really want to dwell on how offensive black face is, we all know it is.
What I will dwell on is how much of a hypocrite JT is. He knew he had this in his past and he sat on it. But still acted like a sanctimonious "Woke" Progressive man.
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With this video emerging. This moves beyond "I was a different person".
Now it moves to a fact that JT seemed fetishized dressing in black face. He didn't disclose this video last night like he did with his Harry Belefonte thing.
So either he lied, or he didn't recall. Which begs the question, how many times did he do the Black face thing, 3, 4, 5, 10?
This is a huge quagmire for the Liberals.
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Because Scheer doesn’t like the gays, Trudeau can be a racist?
no one here... has made your equating leap - of which one was in the distant past, while the other is current
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Trudeau has shown himself to have poor judgement and probably lower character than thought.
or you could look at more current judgement/character to see if your characterization is still warranted. This will simply solidify ranks and reinforce divisiveness as much for the dated 'wrongfulness' of PM Trudeau's action, but more for how it's being reacted to for pure outright partisan gain. Look no further than Scheer's readily given most sanctimonious airport tarmac response, particularly in regards his own past/current transgressions... and his "just apologize and its all good" routine!
and a lot of use of the word 'hypocrisy' in recent posts... implying/suggesting that it's "tit-for-tat"... stating the Liberals started it... even member Boges musing that this will/should end it. By the by, the waldo could lay down a myriad of actions & statements Scheer/CPC brought forward prior to the round of Liberal Party members bringing forward those 'past/current transgressions' of CPC candidates and Scheer himself. But to what end?
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and a lot of use of the word 'hypocrisy' in recent posts... implying/suggesting that it's "tit-for-tat"... stating the Liberals started it... even member Boges musing that this will/should end it. By the by, the waldo could lay down a myriad of actions & statements Scheer/CPC brought forward prior to the round of Liberal Party members bringing forward those 'past/current transgressions' of CPC candidates and Scheer himself. But to what end?
Sure you could. You're an ardent partisan.
But will JT and the Liberals continue this tactic? At their own peril, I reckon.
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If he did, then he would have made it about that.
Scheer still hasn't revealed ANY policies.
...
So what practical things are the parties going to do? Because right now, Scheer hasn't told us anything. His platform is, "I'm not Trudeau." That's great, but neither is Bernier, May, or Singh.
He hasn't revealed any of his platform?
Then what exactly is his proposal to increase health care spending by 3%/year? To ease housing regulations to improve the housing market? To push for new oil pipelines? To lower the tax rate for 'green' businesses to 5%? To cut the tax rate on low/middle class workers earning under $48k? To restore tax credits for Transit users and families with children in sports? To cancel over $1 billion in corporate subsidies?
Then what exactly are those, if not parts of the conservative platform?
Certainly sound like policies to me. Maybe you can tell us what exactly you think a 'policy' is.
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/federal/2019/party-platforms/
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It took him long enough. Christ.
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If this was a Liberal candidate they would have been dumped immediately. I don’t think there’s any denying that...
So why is this different?
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It took him long enough. Christ.
Yeah, until the Writ dropped. WTF was he waiting for?!?!?
Where as JT has yet to release costing for his platform.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-pbo-costing-platform-1.5289127
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Ed the Sock pretty much sums up my feelings on this whole blackface scandal....
https://twitter.com/EdtheSock/status/1174486781020037126?s=20
#Trudeau wears dark makeup in 2001. Intervening years welcomes in immigrants of colour & Syrian refugees. #Scheer in 2006 video compares gay ppl to dogs. Intervening time never apologized, never been to Pride event. Actions speak louder than old snapshots.
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If this was a Liberal candidate they would have been dumped immediately. I don’t think there’s any denying that...
So why is this different?
1) He's an entitled brat.
2) They're in the middle of an election campaign. How can they do a leadership campaign during an election campaign?
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Ed the Sock pretty much sums up my feelings on this whole blackface scandal....
https://twitter.com/EdtheSock/status/1174486781020037126?s=20
I get that. And this wouldn't be a thing if people on the left didn't have a habit of making huge deals of things people did in the past.
Joe Biden has to answer for working with segregationists in the 70's.
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Scheer was asked about the whole apology thing.
Smartly he said he may have accepted JT's apology, until this revelation came out that he lied about the third video.
Now it's a current issue and not a past one.
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1) He's an entitled brat.
2) They're in the middle of an election campaign. How can they do a leadership campaign during an election campaign?
He's a political genius. I'm serious.
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Scheer was asked about the whole apology thing.
Smartly he said he may have accepted JT's apology, until this revelation came out that he lied about the third video.
Scheer didn't accept his apology last night - Scheer just may be lying.
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Scheer didn't accept his apology last night - Scheer just may be lying.
Possibly, but I doubt a reporter will be able to add that level of scrutiny.
JT's apology wasn't to him anyway.
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Cringeworthy.
https://youtu.be/9NKCx7P_mpo
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Live by the Woke, die by the Woke.
This stuff happened 10 years after Ted Danson got publicly eviscerated for wearing blackface. By 2001 everybody knew blackface was shameful. He didn't learn it was wrong and change his ways later. He knew it was wrong then and did it anyway, for reasons people will have to guess at themselves.
Justin Trudeau's soft and sensitive woke-guy routine is just an act. He's not that guy, and never was that guy. It's a character he puts on when he's in public. Every once in a while the act falters and you get a glimpse of the real Justin Trudeau, who is very much an "alpha bro" in a way that El Trumpo can only pretend to be.
Whether it's mocking the clean water protester as she was dragged out of his fundraiser, berating Celina Cesar-Chavannes, creeping on Bianca Andreescu, "I wouldn't have been so forward if I'd known you were a reporter", you get to see the real Trudeau once in a while.
(https://i.imgur.com/tVbBebz.png)
-k
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creeping on Bianca Andreescu
That's bullshit, and you should know it. The video clip tells a completely story than the pictures. In fact, 4 of the 5 pictures she posted on Twitter were with Trudeau. She obviously wasn't creeped out.
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What was he doing in her personal space like that? Why was his face inches from hers? Even if she was into it, it doesn't make it not creepy. He's a married man 30 years older than her. He ought to know better than to behave like he's still a 29 year old snowboard instructor mashing on reporters at a festival in Creston.
-k
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She's 19, he's almost 50.
Trumpian level creepiness.
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What was he doing in her personal space like that?
He gets in everyone's personal space - it's the kind of person he is. You're not - good for you. This character assassination of Trudeau is doing nothing but taking away from what was supposed to be a special day for her.
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Calling him creepy cuz of the Andreescu thing? That's laughable. Geez... ::) Let's not get so carried away.
The blackface stuff will hurt the brand. Probably won't make a huge difference at the ballot box. Everyone realizes they've done stupid things and are just glad that they aren't public personas and that there aren't pictures.
But Kimmy's right about most of it... he's not the character he portrays... and the fakeness gets old pretty fast.
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You guys see a friendly guy being friendly... to me he looks like the preacher mashing on Ariana Grande at Aretha Franklin's memorial or Joe Biden getting in the personal space of women he has no business snuggling up to. If she wasn't into it, what was she supposed to do, tell the Prime Minister to back off in front of thousands of people? It's not like it's the first time he's gotten in the personal space of young women either. He does it because he knows he's a star. It's a sense of entitlement one gets from being a big celebrity. He's not humble, sensitive, and woke. He's a big celebrity full of entitlement and arrogance, who pretends to be humble, sensitive, and woke when the cameras are rolling.
But that's certainly beside the point. The main question is: does being an **** disqualify someone from being Prime Minister? That's something people will have to decide for themselves. We've had some highly successful Prime Ministers who were gigantic ****, so there's a precedent for Trudeau here.
But if you're a Liberal supporter or a Liberal strategist, how do you tell non-white Canadians that you're the party that respects them more than everybody else does, while at the same time offering up Justin Trudeau as your leader after his Amos And Andy routine has come to light? A party that respects non-white people can't just go out and plug him as their leader as if this never happened.
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[deleted baseless speculation]
But if you're a Liberal supporter or a Liberal strategist, how do you tell non-white Canadians that you're the party that respects them more than everybody else does, while at the same time offering up Justin Trudeau as your leader after his Amos And Andy routine has come to light? A party that respects non-white people can't just go out and plug him as their leader as if this never happened.
-k
That's the crux of it.
The Liberal strategy playbook will be: "at least we're not that guy... he hates gays, women and immigrants. We let you people in at least. And those other guys who are better people than us are just a waste of your vote cuz they can't win".
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Calling him creepy cuz of the Andreescu thing? That's laughable. Geez... ::) Let's not get so carried away.
The blackface stuff will hurt the brand. Probably won't make a huge difference at the ballot box. Everyone realizes they've done stupid things and are just glad that they aren't public personas and that there aren't pictures.
But Kimmy's right about most of it... he's not the character he portrays... and the fakeness gets old pretty fast.
Yep, as we head ever closer to election time parties will flog whatever they can to smear the opposition, even a dead horse like this Andreescu thing. Senator Linda Frum is leading the charge. I guess they need to try whatever they can as Scheer continues to shoot himself in the foot. Trudeau is just about to comment more on the blackface thing and even CNN is waiting to cover it. What can he do other than apologize one more time? We shall see shortly.
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Jagmeet gets it:
"We see one Mr. Trudeau in public, that seems — I'll be honest with you, seems really nice, right? Very friendly, very warm in public. But behind closed doors he seems like he's a different Mr. Trudeau," Singh said, invoking Trudeau's curt dismissal of two Grassy Narrows protesters at a Liberal fundraiser in March. "Who is the real Mr. Trudeau?"
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-brownface-analysis-1.5289199
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this wouldn't be a thing if people on the left didn't have a habit of making huge deals of things people did in the past.
Yeah, bullsh!t.
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She's 19, he's almost 50.
Trumpian level creepiness.
Trump has had how many allegations of sexual misconduct? FOH with this false equivalence. You're literally trolling like an idiot now.
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Yeah, bullsh!t.
So Liberals haven't been making a deal of past posts and recordings of Conservatives.
This is a cottage industry in the US BTW.
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Trump has had how many allegations of sexual misconduct? FOH with this false equivalence. You're literally trolling like an idiot now.
I do think that had the PM of Canada looked like Trump, he wouldn't get away with snuggling with a 19-year-old tennis star. But because he's "hot" it's not a big deal.
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New York Times:
“Justin Trudeau has carefully crafted an image of what Canadians aspire to: hope, openness to the world and youth. The blackface episode shatters that perfect image and casts questions on his authenticity.”
https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/1174679314715107333
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Oh! Here he is. He's talking now. Everybody take a shot each time he says "I take responsibility".
-k
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I do think that had the PM of Canada looked like Trump, he wouldn't get away with snuggling with a 19-year-old tennis star. But because he's "hot" it's not a big deal.
"snuggling," eh? Grandiose hyperbole doesn't actually help you make your point. It just shows how weak it is.
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Too funny.
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He's dropping a lot of buzz-words. Microaggression, intersectionality. Is he going to cry? He's having a hard time trying to keep his voice moderate. Uneven pacing, struggling with tone.
-k
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He's refusing to answer how many times. Meaning he didn't remember today's revelations and can't be categorical about never having done it four or more times.
Crazy!!!
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Oh! Here he is. He's talking now. Everybody take a shot each time he says "I take responsibility".
-k
I take responsibility = Let's stop talking about it.
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"People are asking 'How can you not remember that?' uhhh, the fact is? I? uhhhhh?"
-k
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OMG OMG I think he's about to break out the tears.
-k
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"OMG, OMG" the dead horse floggers are out in full force today I see. Take a BP pill and call us in the morning.
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"OMG, OMG" the dead horse floggers are out in full force today I see. Take a BP pill and call us in the morning.
JT is a dead horse?
Or the idea he wore black face 3 or more times?
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This controversy is 24 hours old? I don't think this horse is dead yet.
-k
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Reporter acts him how he didn't know it was racist in 2001 when everybody else knew it racist in 2001.
His answer: "Representing Papineau is a privilege and uhhhh people are facing discrimination and uhhhhh and I will fight hard against racism uhhhhhh"
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I was going to celebrate International Talk Like A Pirate Day by wearing pirateface. But now I realize it's wrong.
-k
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Reporter acts him how he didn't know it was racist in 2001 when everybody else knew it racist in 2001.
Are you black, or are you just talking that way?
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Are you black, or are you just talking that way?
Or it could have been a typo. ::)
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What was he doing in her personal space like that? Why was his face inches from hers? Even if she was into it, it doesn't make it not creepy. He's a married man 30 years older than her. He ought to know better than to behave like he's still a 29 year old snowboard instructor mashing on reporters at a festival in Creston.
Exactly. It looks like he's flirting with her.
He's a dude-bro frat boy prince. Dude, like my biggest legislative accomplishment was legalizing weed bro. Far out. He's used to getting everything he wants his whole life, even women, everything handed to him, he's an entitled prick and ego-maniac. And when he doesn't get what he wants, he has temper tantrums and freaks out and does this controlling bully BS.
Then at the same time, he's wanting to be white knight to save everyone from oppression, especially the damsels in distress (women). He loves all the attention he gets from it all, especially from women. That's why he went into drama/acting, he loves the attention to feed his ego. It's why he did the boxing match years ago, look how tough i am ladies, check out my sexy guns, i'm your knight in shining armour.
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Asked point-blank if he and his party would continue to look to dig up questionable past actions from opponents.
JT dodged the question and talked about his parties platform.
HYPOCRITE!!!
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Are you black, or are you just talking that way?
Well being black and all, JT would probably relate to it.
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JT is a dead horse?
Or the idea he wore black face 3 or more times?
No, the fact he did what he did was decades ago, when many people probably did similar things without proper consideration, and he has now apologized for it numerous times. And of course keep in mind that you Scheer supporters should keep in mind that he says all Cons. who have done similar racist things, even much more currently, simply need to apologize and all is well and we should move on. Cons. understand the concept of "Hypocrisy" do they not?
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Exactly. It looks like he's flirting with her.
He's a dude-bro frat boy prince. Dude, like my biggest legislative accomplishment was legalizing weed bro. Far out. He's used to getting everything he wants his whole life, even women, everything handed to him, he's an entitled prick and ego-maniac. And when he doesn't get what he wants, he has temper tantrums and freaks out and does this controlling bully BS.
Then at the same time, he's wanting to be white knight to save everyone from oppression, especially the damsels in distress (women). He loves all the attention he gets from it all, especially from women. That's why he went into drama/acting, he loves the attention to feed his ego. It's why he did the boxing match years ago, look how tough i am ladies, check out my sexy guns, i'm your knight in shining armour.
Your obvious jealousy is quite apparent.
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Cons. understand the concept of "Hypocrisy" do they not?
It's JT and the Liberals who are digging up past transgressions and getting Scheer to answer for them. And JT refused to say his team would stop doing it in the future.
JT is a hypocrite!
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Your obvious jealousy is quite apparent.
Grow up.
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Grow up.
You're jealous you can't feel up a 19-year-old and have sycophants be cool with it. :D
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Your obvious jealousy is quite apparent.
If you don't like me, then just say it. You're constantly taking these resentful little digs at me because you don't like my political opinions. So grow up or go eff yourself.
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There's so many complete as.sholes on this board. Incredible. People take it so personally if i happen to disagree with you politically, all these sniveling resentful pompous tantrum-throwing babies who can't deal with people disagree with them. Bleeding heart social justice advocates who are giant hypocrites because they advocate for all these progressive policies to help people while treating others like ****.
You know who you are. Y'all can suck it.
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There's so many complete as.sholes on this board. Incredible. People take it so personally if i happen to disagree with you politically, all these sniveling resentful pompous tantrum-throwing babies who can't deal with people disagree with them. Bleeding heart social justice advocates who are giant hypocrites because they advocate for all these progressive policies to help people while treating others like ****.
You know who you are. Y'all can suck it.
??? ??? ???
And member Waldo wasn't even posting.
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Singh again:
NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh says newly uncovered photographs showing Justin Trudeau in brownface and blackface are the latest sign that the Liberal leader’s actions do not always match his public persona.
(...)
Singh described these incidents as part of a “pattern of behaviour” that included Trudeau’s response in March to a protester who interrupted a Liberal Party fundraiser.
The protester from the Grassy Narrows First Nation in northern Ontario, which has been dealing with the effects of mercury poisoning for decades, called out to Trudeau during his speech, asking him what he would do about their community’s plight.
Trudeau responded by cheekily thanking the protester for making a donation to the party by attending the fundraiser. He later said he had demonstrated a “lack of respect” and apologized.
“Instead of responding to those folks and saying that we need help, he mocked them, made fun of them, and was applauded and cheered on by those attending this fundraiser,” Singh said Thursday.
“That to me shows the utter lack of compassion for humans that are going through mercury poisoning, and that to me really builds out a story that this is not an isolated incident – it’s a pattern of behaviour that Mr. Trudeau is very different behind closed doors than what he shows people in public.”
https://election.ctvnews.ca/singh-says-racist-photos-latest-in-pattern-of-behaviour-from-trudeau-1.4600487
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If you don't like me, then just say it. You're constantly taking these resentful little digs at me because you don't like my political opinions. So grow up or go eff yourself.
You attacked Trudeau with nothing more than a load of assumptive BS. And you seem to simply be PO'ed at his popularity, especially with the women of his day. I just pointed that out. Sorry if that got your nose out of joint. Kimmy will soothe your wounds.
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(https://i.imgur.com/aoho5WJ.png)
https://politics.theonion.com/justin-trudeau-responds-to-blackface-criticism-with-new-1838258264
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Boges is right, if something like this surfaced about any Liberal back bench candidate, Trudeau would have fired their ass out of the party so fast they wouldn’t know what hit them. It’s very entertaining watching Preacher Justin squirm.
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Trudeau needs to quit, and so does Scheer. Which one will be the man and do it first?
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Asked point-blank if he and his party would continue to look to dig up questionable past actions from opponents.
JT dodged the question and talked about his parties platform.
HYPOCRITE!!!
He doesn't care about ethics, only power.
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He doesn't care about ethics, only power.
What do you suspect Scheer cares about?
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What do you suspect Scheer cares about?
They all seem slimy except May.
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Which will hurt Trudeau more in the upcoming election? Facegate? or the corruption scandal (SNC Lavalin)?
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Which will hurt Trudeau more in the upcoming election? Facegate? or the corruption scandal (SNC Lavalin)?
Probably the blackface bit since most Canadians have already put the SNC thing thing to bed. But of course if the Libs. are smart they will simply point out that Scheer says even if you make racist comments you simply need to apologize and all is well in our party.
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Meanwhile in Kim City...
(https://i.imgur.com/U4mUtJD.png)
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We are sitting on a cruise ship off the coast of Spain and this was the biggest thing on BBC yesterday. I can’t help but think the world is getting a little pleasure from seeing a man who likes to talk down to it knocked down a peg himself. Canadians may or may not forget about it when they vote but Justin’s international brand has taken a big hit.
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We are sitting on a cruise ship off the coast of Spain and this was the biggest thing on BBC yesterday. I can’t help but think the world is getting a little pleasure from seeing a man who likes to talk down to it knocked down a peg himself. Canadians may or may not forget about it when they vote but Justin’s international brand has taken a big hit.
I know that many Americans of colour were more impressed by his apology than they were angered by his actions, so I’m not so sure about that.
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I know that many Americans of colour were more impressed by his apology than they were angered by his actions, so I’m not so sure about that.
Look who the Americans elected, a guy who never apologizes for anything. Whereas we have the king of apologists (unless it is for trying to obstruct justice).
The BBC is asking all the same questions Canadian reporters are asking.
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I know that many Americans of colour were more impressed by his apology than they were angered by his actions, so I’m not so sure about that.
If Scheer appeared in blackface on 3 different occasions, including at 29 years old as a teacher, and then apologized, would this still be your reaction?
Everyone would say he's a racist, and they'd be right.
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On the BBC World ticker as I type. “Justin Trudeau cannot say how many times he appeared in blackface”.
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"He {Trudeau] also admitted to wearing blackface for a high school talent show to sing the Jamaican folk song, "Day-O," popularized in in 1956 by Harry Belafonte, a black singer and civil rights activist. Time has since published a photo of the performance, which shows Trudeau wearing dark makeup and an afro wig."
https://www.insider.com/celebrities-who-wore-blackface-2018-10#canadian-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-admitted-to-wearing-brownface-at-an-arabian-nights-themed-party-in-2001-1
Singing a Jamaican folk song in an afro wig while wearing blackface??
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Well they don’t call him mister dress up for nothing.
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Well they don’t call him mister dress up for nothing.
Yep. This one needs an update...
(https://i.imgur.com/7TXBEVv.jpg)
-k
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Well they don’t call him mister dress up for nothing.
And what would you suggest we call someone who equates same sex marriage to a dog considering it's tail being related to one of it's own legs? Quite a guy you support there eh? Sheesh.
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On the BBC World ticker as I type. “Justin Trudeau cannot say how many times he appeared in blackface”.
I was reading that on BBC just now. I'm sorry JMT, but I don't know ANY Americans of color who would be impressed by his apolog(ies).
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If Scheer appeared in blackface on 3 different occasions, including at 29 years old as a teacher, and then apologized, would this still be your reaction?
Everyone would say he's a racist, and they'd be right.
Yes and only a few would change their vote also.
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Yes and only a few would change their vote also.
Some may stay home.
I didn't actually vote for DoFo. Granted, I was out of the country, but if I was so motivated, I could have pre-voted.
The big thing about BlackfaceGate is that the Liberals can no longer used past indiscretions as Campaign fuel.
The polls are neck and neck so any advantage could tip the scale.
JT is also a bit of a laughing stock internationally right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iqx12IUHxE
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First polls are in - Liberals are damaged, it seems, but not grievously so far.
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The polls are neck and neck so any advantage could tip the scale.
wait... what? As much as weak Andy acolytes want to keep saying that - no - again, the national number means nothing! Watch the regional results/seat projections, hey! Notwithstanding the 'baked vote' and whether you think you can, as you say, "hay make" over distantPastMakeupGate ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/6Yer0Cz.png)
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distantPastMakeupGate ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/6Yer0Cz.png)
Ahhh you're calling it makeup. Not towing the party line change that it was infact Blackface.
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Ahhh you're calling it makeup. Not towing the party line change that it was infact Blackface.
haha
"Wearing makeup" doesn't have the same ring to it as "racist blackface", does it? ;D
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First polls are in - Liberals are damaged, it seems, but not grievously so far.
I'll take your word for it...
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First polls are in - Liberals are damaged, it seems, but not grievously so far.
The reality of it is that I think that most of us can relate to having said something or done something stupid in the past. Probably most people have told an offensive joke or said something politically correct in the company of friends. The truth of the matter is that while probably almost none of us have ever worn blackface (which is the godfather of all stupid things to do) most of us can at least relate to Trudeau in having done something that we know darn well was offensive or inappropriate but did it anyway because it seemed fun at the time. So I think there's some degree of built in relatability and sympathy for Justin in this scandal-- at least among white people who know that we have not always been good "allies" to non-white people in our own pasts.
And if it was just a matter of forgiving a guy for being a complete **** when he was younger, it would be a lot easier. But there's more to it than that.
I think this reflects badly on his judgment and his character. I'm far from perfect, but at least I've never done something as offensive as dress up like Buckwheat with full-body blackface and rolled socks stuffed down my crotch to make it look like I've got a Jamaican-sized ****. And I'm not the one holding myself up as someone with the moral authority to govern the country. The standard for a Prime Minister ought to be higher than the standard for the average Kimlet on the street.
And there's a picture. Multiple pictures, it turns out. The power of an image should not be overlooked. Knowing that somebody did something bad in the past is bad enough, but actually seeing this is devastating:
(https://i.imgur.com/F3u0mjK.png)
What message does it send the world if we re-elect *that* to lead our country? As a Canadian, how does it feel to know that *that* is the image we're putting out in front of the world?
-k
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haha
"Wearing makeup" doesn't have the same ring to it as "racist blackface", does it? ;D
I wear makeup sometimes... and it never involves darkening my whole face and body to mock the skin-tone of other races.
-k
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If Scheer appeared in blackface on 3 different occasions, including at 29 years old as a teacher, and then apologized, would this still be your reaction?
Everyone would say he's a racist, and they'd be right.
Scheer hasn’t working tirelessly since to prove he isn’t a racist. Trudeau is a different story.
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Scheer hasn’t working tirelessly since to prove he isn’t a racist. Trudeau is a different story.
Scheer wore blackface too?
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As many have pointed out. It's not just black face, but black body! Black arms, Black Hands, black legs.
It does really seem like he liked doing it, A LOT! And since he won't commit that there aren't more instances of it, it's pretty safe to say these aren't the only three times he's done it.
So who's to say he never did it in his 30's and just can't recall? It's completely possible.
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As many have pointed out. It's not just black face, but black body! Black arms, Black Hands, black legs.
It does really seem like he liked doing it, A LOT! And since he won't commit that there aren't more instances of it, it's pretty safe to say these aren't the only three times he's done it.
So who's to say he never did it in his 30's and just can't recall? It's completely possible.
He won't say anything more because he knows there's more dirt out there and just doesn't know what form it's in yet.
(What are the odds that the reporter from Creston is the only woman he ever groped?)
-k
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Scheer wore blackface too?
Justin Trudeau has done far more for people of colour than Scheer, despite the idiot that he used to be. That's kind of the point. I once thought he was an idiot too, don't forget that.
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We need a wedge issue to take the focus off blackface, so let's go with (spins wheel...) gun control!
The Liberals have announced a campaign pledge to ban "semi-automatic assault rifles" including the AR-15, as well as allowing municipalities to ban handguns. This sounds incredibly clever.
I can just imagine John Tory saying "If you young men want to shoot each other, you'll have to go out of town to do it, please and thank you!"
-k
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Justin Trudeau has done far more for people of colour than Scheer, despite the idiot that he used to be. That's kind of the point. I once thought he was an idiot too, don't forget that.
He's still an idiot.
(https://www.vipscandals.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/video-images.vice_.com1568912418486-closertrude-7537d15b17fe8412603cb620ceb5db0d3ecefcfa-780x405.jpeg)
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Justin Trudeau has done far more for people of colour than Scheer, despite the idiot that he used to be. That's kind of the point. I once thought he was an idiot too, don't forget that.
Which is why flogging this blackface issue to death could very well backfire on the Cons. The Libs. could easily fire back by focusing on Scheer's much more recent conflicting comments on abortion, or simply being able to say I'm sorry to be forgiven for your racist comments.
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Justin Trudeau has done far more for people of colour than Scheer, despite the idiot that he used to be. That's kind of the point. I once thought he was an idiot too, don't forget that.
That's a very weak argument...
I would still rather see Trudeau in than Scheer... but he's a laughing stock internationally... he's clearly a fake... and he has shown to have terrible judgement.
If only people would stop buying into this 2 party nonsense, we could turf both these bozos.
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If only people would stop buying into this 2 party nonsense, we could turf both these bozos.
For who? Green Party? Which wants to decimate our oil industry and thus gov tax revenues yet implement very expensive programs like guaranteed livable income, pharmacare, dental care etc?
Can't wait for those Green Party budget surpluses!
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For who? Green Party? Which wants to decimate our oil industry and thus gov tax revenues yet implement very expensive programs like guaranteed livable income, pharmacare, dental care etc?
Can't wait for those Green Party budget surpluses!
Are you 16 years old or something? Go make a gay joke... ::) Let the adults talk.
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Are you 16 years old or something? Go make a gay joke... ::) Let the adults talk.
I made an argument, you didn't. Who's the child?
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Are you 16 years old or something? Go make a gay joke... ::) Let the adults talk.
No wait, you should mark my post as "dumb", let the adult talk. 16 y/o marking all the posts he dislikes with dumb tags without refuting argument, then calls me immature. Hypocrite.
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I made an argument, you didn't. Who's the child?
Saying the same stupid **** over and over isn't an argument.
No wait, you should mark my post as "dumb", let the adult talk. 16 y/o marking all the posts he dislikes with dumb tags without refuting argument, then calls me immature. Hypocrite.
Whines and snivels about marking posts.... then marks a post. I take it back... you're no more than 14.
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but he's a laughing stock internationally...
I don't buy that.
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I don't buy that.
We don't know the extent to which this will damage his reputation internationally, but we do know for a fact that this has been one of the top international news stories the past couple of days.
People around the world have now seen our Prime Minister linked with this:
(https://i.imgur.com/IbjS5bS.png)
and this:
(https://i.imgur.com/F3u0mjK.png)
...so how much respect can he really expect when he travels abroad now?
-k
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We don't know the extent to which this will damage his reputation internationally, but we do know for a fact that this has been one of the top international news stories the past couple of days.
People around the world have now seen our Prime Minister linked with this:
(https://i.imgur.com/IbjS5bS.png)
and this:
(https://i.imgur.com/F3u0mjK.png)
...so how much respect can he really expect when he travels abroad now?
In comparison to Donald Trump? Boris Johnston? Trudeau looks like a genius in comparison. Most people have taken his apology at face value. Most people I've heard from (far from Liberals) have also recognized that their own past isn't perfect. If you didn't like Trudeau already, this was another gotcha moment. If you liked him or were ambivalent, it didn't change anything.
Most of you that don't like him don't seem to understand the way that he is able to connect with people some people that disarms them. This won't follow him any further than tomorrow at the latest. It's already becoming ancient history.
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We don't know the extent to which this will damage his reputation internationally, but we do know for a fact that this has been one of the top international news stories the past couple of days.
People around the world have now seen our Prime Minister linked with this:
(https://i.imgur.com/IbjS5bS.png)
and this:
(https://i.imgur.com/F3u0mjK.png)
...so how much respect can he really expect when he travels abroad now?
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
-k
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geezaz member kimmy - get a grip! For being one of the gays, where's your perspective... I'm shocked you give weak Andy such a pass - I can't recall a single post you've made to critique the homophobe's past statements and current... still same... positions in that regard. Oh wait, you really... came out... and actually aligned with weakSauce by saying you'd never be caught dead at a pride parade! ;D (feel free to correct my paraphrasing - yes?). MakeupGate was in the distant past... Scheer's homophobia is today!
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c'mon member kimmy... was there malice, hurting, hating intent with distantPastMakeupGate - particularly in comparative regards to a flamin' homophobe and ultra-religious zealot like weak Andy?
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I wear makeup sometimes... and it never involves darkening my whole face and body to mock the skin-tone of other races.
You are suggesting it was done to mock? It was grossly offensive, but to intentionally mock is a different story.
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You are suggesting it was done to mock? It was grossly offensive, but to intentionally mock is a different story.
Can you look at those two photos I just posted and tell me they're not mocking the people he's caricatured?
-k
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Can you look at those two photos I just posted and tell me they're not mocking the people he's caricatured?
You are suggesting intent, do you know something we don't know?
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geezaz member kimmy - get a grip! For being one of the gays, where's your perspective... I'm shocked you give weak Andy such a pass - I can't recall a single post you've made to critique the homophobe's past statements and current... still same... positions in that regard. Oh wait, you really... came out... and actually aligned with weakSauce by saying you'd never be caught dead at a pride parade! ;D (feel free to correct my paraphrasing - yes?). MakeupGate was in the distant past... Scheer's homophobia is today!
Sure. Scheer is what he is, and I don't want him to become Prime Minister. I don't have a problem with anybody condemning him for homophobia and for the things he said on the gay marriage debate.
But I don't think "whaddaboutism" is the answer to your boy's problems.
-k
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You are suggesting intent, do you know something we don't know?
He's there with blackface, a Buckwheat-looking wig or something on his head, ripped up clothes, and a rolled up sock stuffed down the front of his pants to make his schwanz look Jamaica huge. I can't give him the benefit of the doubt on that one, sorry.
The Aladdin one and the Harry Belafonte one are more ambiguous, I'll grant you. I do note that from all the photos of the Arabian Nights event I've seen, none of the other people who attended had the poor sense to wear blackface. It seems to suggest that even in the context of that situation Trudeau's judgment was considerably worse than his peers'.
-k
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I can't give him the benefit of the doubt on that one, sorry.
Again how does that show intent to mock? He was doing stupid dress up, as I can remember happened a lot in my school years (no I never participated). He was partying with a young crowd, doing stupid things. Yes, he demonstrated very poor judgement and as I have said before he should resign (as should Scheer who has far more recent transgressions, and in his political role).
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You are suggesting it was done to mock? It was grossly offensive, but to intentionally mock is a different story.
At a talent show he got up in front of his school with blackface and an afro wig on and then sang "Day O" (Daylight come and me want to go home), a Jamaican folk song sung by a black dude.
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You are suggesting intent, do you know something we don't know?
How many times have you dressed in blackface? Zero for me. He did it no less than 3 times.
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How many times have you dressed in blackface? Zero for me. He did it no less than 3 times.
And you think he's the only one to have done that decades ago? Get with it buddy.
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And you think he's the only one to have done that decades ago? Get with it buddy.
A changed man who longer succumbs to dressing up in racial stereotyping:
(https://www.vipscandals.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/video-images.vice_.com1568912418486-closertrude-7537d15b17fe8412603cb620ceb5db0d3ecefcfa-780x405.jpeg)
Let's face it, he's an idiot. This is also the dude who gropes female reporters and then decades later elbows a woman in the House of Commons, bullies and yells at female colleague MP's (including one who was black) in his own party, mocks aboriginal protestors, yells profanities at opposition MP's in the House of Commons. All around awesome dude. He pretends to be one thing but he's actually a d-bag.
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A changed man who longer succumbs to dressing up in racial stereotyping:
(https://www.vipscandals.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/video-images.vice_.com1568912418486-closertrude-7537d15b17fe8412603cb620ceb5db0d3ecefcfa-780x405.jpeg)
Let's face it, he's an idiot. This is also the dude who gropes female reporters and then decades later elbows a woman in the House of Commons, bullies and yells at female colleague MP's (including one who was black) in his own party, mocks aboriginal protestors, yells profanities at opposition MP's in the House of Commons. All around awesome dude. He pretends to be one thing but he's actually a d-bag.
Sorry to take the wind from your sails but the groping issue was unsubstantiated, "elbowgate" is further nonsense, and guess what, MP's have been yelling all kinds of things across the house floor since there was a house.
I bet you listen faithfully to FOX, Faux news eh?
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Sorry to take the wind from your sails but the groping issue was unsubstantiated, "elbowgate" is further nonsense, and guess what, MP's have been yelling all kinds of things across the house floor since there was a house.
I bet you listen faithfully to FOX, Faux news eh?
Yes it's just all lies, it's all FOX News propaganda. I must be bffs with Faith Goldy.
Lots of apologists here for Trudeau's racism, misogyny, sexual assault and violence against women. If Trump did it well he's a monster (and he is). Trudeau does it well he apologized so it's ok. What hypocrisy.
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A changed man who longer succumbs to dressing up in racial stereotyping:
Let's face it, he's an idiot. This is also the dude who gropes female reporters and then decades later elbows a woman in the House of Commons, bullies and yells at female colleague MP's (including one who was black) in his own party, mocks aboriginal protestors, yells profanities at opposition MP's in the House of Commons. All around awesome dude. He pretends to be one thing but he's actually a d-bag.
I haven't liked him from day one and disliked him even more with his love of the Kinder Morgan Pipeline, but the dirt being thrown at him is petty. I'm the same age as him and would not have thought twice if I saw him in makeup in 2001 or in the 80's in high school. 'Black face' was frowned up with its history in the US and slavery but 'cultural appropriation' is a fairly new phenomenon. I'm a POC and I would not have taken the slightest notice if I'd seen him at either event.
Trudeau is a lot of crappy things but he's not a racist. He coined the term A Canadian is a Canadian and when the zeitgeist of our era is 'real Canadians/Americans/Europeans' I think Trudeau takes an amazing stance which I applaud him for.
Let this be a valuable lesson about micro-aggressions and how they hurt POC while completely unintentional. I'm glad he recognizes that, his privilege and apologizes instead of doubling down.
I may even end up voting Liberal because of this useless petty 'backlash'. How productive was that??
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I haven't liked him from day one and disliked him even more with his love of the Kinder Morgan Pipeline, but the dirt being thrown at him is petty. I'm the same age as him and would not have thought twice if I saw him in makeup in 2001 or in the 80's in high school. 'Black face' was frowned up with its history in the US and slavery but 'cultural appropriation' is a fairly new phenomenon. I'm a POC and I would not have taken the slightest notice if I'd seen him at either event.
Perhaps you can rationalize the Arabian Nights costume and the Day-O costume, but what about the one where he's in blackface, a Buckwheat wig, ripped up clothes, and rolled up socks stuffed down the front of his pants? Trying to explain that as "makeup" or "cultural appropriation" is dishonesty in the same sense as describing The Titanic as a "boating accident". Technically accurate, yet omitting the context and severity of what occurred to a degree that sinks to the level of bald-faced lie.
Trudeau is a lot of crappy things but he's not a racist. He coined the term A Canadian is a Canadian and when the zeitgeist of our era is 'real Canadians/Americans/Europeans' I think Trudeau takes an amazing stance which I applaud him for.
Let this be a valuable lesson about micro-aggressions and how they hurt POC while completely unintentional. I'm glad he recognizes that, his privilege and apologizes instead of doubling down.
I don't believe Trudeau is a racist either, at least no more than the rest of us who've said or done offensive things in the past.
But I do believe he's a butthole. As Jagmeet Singh has pointed out, this is just part of a pattern of behavior for Trudeau that shows you that he's just not the guy he pretends he is. He's not a sensitive woke bae, he's a privileged frat boy. And we've seen that on numerous occasions.
I may even end up voting Liberal because of this useless petty 'backlash'. How productive was that??
That's fine. Trudeau's Amos & Andy routine from sometime in the 1990s doesn't really have much bearing on his ability to govern the country.
But I know for sure that if it had been a conservative politician, those of you arguing that "this is no big deal" would be on this like a pitbull on a steak and would never let go of it.
I know for damned sure that if a 20 year old photo of Andrew Scheer in blackface appeared, you wouldn't be saying "I don't believe he's a racist", you'd be pointing to it as proof of what you already believed about Scheer.
And while I appreciate the idea that people suddenly want to forget about looking for "gotcha" moments and controversial comments from the past and focus on important issues, we all know that's only going to last until the Liberals can turn up some new dirt.
-k
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I don't believe Trudeau is a racist ... doesn't really have much bearing on his ability to govern the country.
that... and the 20-30 year datedness... certainly hasn't stopped your zeal, hey member kimmy! Perhaps, in your same zeal, you can speak to motivations - yours and PM Trudeau's - you can do that, right!
And while I appreciate the idea that people suddenly want to forget about looking for "gotcha" moments and controversial comments from the past and focus on important issues, we all know that's only going to last until the Liberals can turn up some new dirt.
really? This campaign was expected to be what it has turned out to be. All these ScheerCons wailing/whining about Liberals digging up... and conveniently missing what preceded that, whether driven directly by lil' Hamish, his Rebel cohorts, or "others". The real question is why distantPastMakeupGate didn't come out in the 2015 campaign - cause, do you really think the "West Point Grey community" are principally small-l-liberal? Do you really think that year-book photo was an absolute unknown... just waiting for a Scheeringly opportune moment to spring forward? Word on the street has the Liberals getting out in front of it... bringing forward those homophobe and abortion related statements/positions of Scheer et al... cause the only uncertainty was when distantPastMakeupGate would drop!
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I know for damned sure that if a 20 year old photo of Andrew Scheer in blackface appeared, you wouldn't be saying "I don't believe he's a racist", you'd be pointing to it as proof of what you already believed about Scheer.
Scheer has done much more than butthole dressing up for parties to correlate his racism with.
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that... and the 20-30 year datedness... certainly hasn't stopped your zeal, hey member kimmy! Perhaps, in your same zeal, you can speak to motivations - yours and PM Trudeau's - you can do that, right!
Mr Trudeau's motivation? I can't really speak to what possesses a young man to put on blackface, a Buckwheat wig, ripped clothes, and stuff some socks down his crotch. Perhaps he thought his friends would think it was funny.
My motivation? First off to point out the absurd hypocrisy of those now saying "It was a long time ago, it wasn't that big a deal!"
And secondly to point out that Trudeau's just a phony. This is just the latest in a strong of incidents that demonstrate the man's real character, and that he's not the guy he pretends he is when the cameras are on.
Be honest with me: as a **** LPC cheerleader, don't you feel that your team would be better off with a different leader?
really? This campaign was expected to be what it has turned out to be. All these ScheerCons wailing/whining about Liberals digging up... and conveniently missing what preceded that, whether driven directly by lil' Hamish, his Rebel cohorts, or "others". The real question is why distantPastMakeupGate didn't come out in the 2015 campaign - cause, do you really think the "West Point Grey community" are principally small-l-liberal? Do you really think that year-book photo was an absolute unknown... just waiting for a Scheeringly opportune moment to spring forward? Word on the street has the Liberals getting out in front of it... bringing forward those homophobe and abortion related statements/positions of Scheer et al... cause the only uncertainty was when distantPastMakeupGate would drop!
So basically you're telling me that the Liberals needed to start slinging mud because they knew that the Conservatives had mud to sling too?
-k
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My motivation? First off to point out the absurd hypocrisy of those now saying "It was a long time ago, it wasn't that big a deal!"
And secondly to point out that Trudeau's just a phony. This is just the latest in a strong of incidents that demonstrate the man's real character, and that he's not the guy he pretends he is when the cameras are on.
your claimed 'phoniness' is easily countered by actions/statements in more recent periods - there's no shortage of lists to that end... being brought forward in recent days for the benefit of you and your ilk's feigned outrage over "hypocrisy and phoniness". Try a googly!
Be honest with me: as a **** LPC cheerleader, don't you feel that your team would be better off with a different leader?
pragmatic justifiable support isn't being a cheerleader! In any case, {h/t U.S. politician Rumsfeld} you go with the leader you have --- not the leader you might wish you have.
So basically you're telling me that the Liberals needed to start slinging mud because they knew that the Conservatives had mud to sling too?
you can read - why fabricate? I said there was also a string of prior targeted BS against PM Trudeau/LPC coming from Scheer/CPC supporters and PM Trudeau haters - months ago. That, and again, knowing distantPastMakeupGate was coming down the pipe, Liberal cabinet members (and others) got out in front of it with the drumbeat around homophobia, abortion, SSM, etc.. Apparently, you seem to favour Liberals doing nothing - go figure.
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I haven't liked him from day one and disliked him even more with his love of the Kinder Morgan Pipeline, but the dirt being thrown at him is petty. I'm the same age as him and would not have thought twice if I saw him in makeup in 2001 or in the 80's in high school. 'Black face' was frowned up with its history in the US and slavery but 'cultural appropriation' is a fairly new phenomenon. I'm a POC and I would not have taken the slightest notice if I'd seen him at either event.
Trudeau is a lot of crappy things but he's not a racist. He coined the term A Canadian is a Canadian and when the zeitgeist of our era is 'real Canadians/Americans/Europeans' I think Trudeau takes an amazing stance which I applaud him for.
Let this be a valuable lesson about micro-aggressions and how they hurt POC while completely unintentional. I'm glad he recognizes that, his privilege and apologizes instead of doubling down.
I may even end up voting Liberal because of this useless petty 'backlash'. How productive was that??
I think Trudeau is clear about intentions, and that's all he can do is say 'A Canadian is a Canadian' and it's important.
But he needs a minority government, w Greens pushing him.
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your claimed 'phoniness' is easily countered by actions/statements in more recent periods - there's no shortage of lists to that end... being brought forward in recent days for the benefit of you and your ilk's feigned outrage over "hypocrisy and phoniness". Try a googly!
Said before and will say again, you know darned well that if it were a politician you didn't like you wouldn't be trying to excuse this as "distant past" or "it's just makeup". You're cutting your idol a lot of slack that no other politician would get. And yes, when the Liberals next fire up their fear-mongering routine, the stench of hypocrisy will be all over them.
Mocking the Green River protesters as they were escorted out of his fundraiser doesn't speak highly of his character. Nor does his treatment of Celina Cesar-Chavannes, or his involvement in the SNC-Lavalin affair, or the Aga Khan thing, or ditching the democratic reform agenda the minute he got into power. If he's really a champion for people who wear turbans, why didn't he stand up to Quebec regarding Bill 21? I think we know the answer to that one too.
But at least he brought some refugees to Canada, so I guess that's all it takes for progressives to think he's still their woke bae.
pragmatic justifiable support isn't being a cheerleader! In any case, {h/t U.S. politician Rumsfeld} you go with the leader you have --- not the leader you might wish you have.
I want to mention that the censored word in my previous post was "h@rdc0re"... I had no idea that "h@rdc0re" would be censored by the forum software. And color me skeptical-- your devotion to defending the LPC brand is dogmatic, not pragmatic. It borders on religious fanaticism. I can not remember a single time when you've ever spoke of a single LPC blunder, no matter how boneheaded, with anything less than rabid defense of your party. I can't recall an instance when your own take on an issue wasn't in complete lock-step with official LPC talking points.
Nonetheless, as a "pragmatic" man who supports the Liberals, don't you think the party would be in better shape if another leader, perhaps Ms Freeland, were in charge?
As I've said before, my ideal outcome for this election would be if the Liberals win a rickety minority government with such an underwhelming mandate that Buckwheat Trudeau is "persuaded" to step down as leader.
you can read - why fabricate? I said there was also a string of prior targeted BS against PM Trudeau/LPC coming from Scheer/CPC supporters and PM Trudeau haters - months ago. That, and again, knowing distantPastMakeupGate was coming down the pipe, Liberal cabinet members (and others) got out in front of it with the drumbeat around homophobia, abortion, SSM, etc.. Apparently, you seem to favour Liberals doing nothing - go figure.
On the contrary, LPC doing what LPC always do. The notion that they weren't planning on doing this but got pushed into it by the existence of the Buckwheat video or the Jonny Quest cosplay is just a load. Their strategy was always going to be "Scheer bad! Scheer scary! Faith Goldy!"
(https://i.imgur.com/y0wynoc.png)
-k
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I don't believe Trudeau is a racist either, at least no more than the rest of us who've said or done offensive things in the past.
But I do believe he's a butthole. As Jagmeet Singh has pointed out, this is just part of a pattern of behavior for Trudeau that shows you that he's just not the guy he pretends he is. He's not a sensitive woke bae, he's a privileged frat boy. And we've seen that on numerous occasions.
Trudeau is very progressive/woke in his government policies, and i believe he's sincere in those policies, be it women's rights or minorities/immigrants etc.
But for some reason, when it comes to his personal behaviour and how he interacts with people interpersonally he's not very progressive or woke or even nice. He's petty, a bully, quick-tempered, an ego-maniac and an attention-wh0re. Blackface is yet another thing he does to get attention, he CRAVES the limelight, be it acting, teaching in front of a class of students, running for political office, trying to impress on the international scene etc. His wife is similar. "What could i do at this gala that would get me the most attention? Oh yes wear brownface!".
If his party wins again i hope it's a minority, maybe that will take him down a peg.
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Said before and will say again, you know darned well that if it were a politician you didn't like you wouldn't be trying to excuse this as "distant past" or "it's just makeup". You're cutting your idol a lot of slack that no other politician would get. And yes, when the Liberals next fire up their fear-mongering routine, the stench of hypocrisy will be all over them.
for someone, you, who said PM Trudeau isn't racist... where you said distantPastMakeupGate has no bearing/impact on his ability to govern... you're sure like a junkyard dog here! That you need to keep pumping your own narrative speaks to how weak your position truly is! And no, I wouldn't care a diddly about something someone did in high-school 35+ years prior - ya think! Is makeup on skin to be 'in character' racist? ... you say PM Trudeau isn't racist, so get over it! ;D
Mocking the Green River protesters as they were escorted out of his fundraiser doesn't speak highly of his character. Nor does his treatment of Celina Cesar-Chavannes, or his involvement in the SNC-Lavalin affair, or the Aga Khan thing, or ditching the democratic reform agenda the minute he got into power. If he's really a champion for people who wear turbans, why didn't he stand up to Quebec regarding Bill 21? I think we know the answer to that one too.
But at least he brought some refugees to Canada, so I guess that's all it takes for progressives to think he's still their woke bae.
you truly have a hate-on - such venom in your words/phrasing... you're quite the charmer. As for your dumb-ass reach with those examples:
- try Grassy Narrows (Green River is somewhere in the U.S. ;D ) - it was at a private fundraiser; the 2 had been asked not to come into it but decided to crash the event and make a spectacle... they weren't from Grassy Narrows; were they even Indigenous? - you tell me, hey! In any case, the file was active and being worked on diligently - it wasn't being ignored!
- Celina Cesar-Chavannes is a wingnut (as several members here attested to) - of course you're inclined to take her statement at face value - of course you are
- equally, you're buying into Jody's truth - of course you are
- the "Aga Khan thing"(sic) - geezaz, you're really digging now - the Commissioner of Lobbying said it was all good! Try to fill this one with something else - try harder!
- electoral reform... that ole' chestnut! Yet another false narrative dug out by anti-Trudeau/LPC types - like you!. Point in fact a parliamentary committee was struck, town hall meetings were conducted across the country and a national survey was distributed. The end result was no clear choice emerged for an alternative system of voting - PM Trudeau stated he wouldn't make a change for the sake of change, in particular to a flavour of proportional representation with its inherent divisiveness. And, of course, we had Scheer/CPC out in full force demanding a national referendum. There absolutely was none of your claimed, "ditching it as soon as elected", bullshyte! So weak you are here member kimmy; so weak!
- Quebec Bill 21? WTF - PM Trudeau stated he personally opposes it and, 'hasn't closed the door to contesting it in the courts'... try another one oh weak one, member kimmy! ;D
your reach for/labeling refugees as a "progressive pacifier" says more about you - than anything else - sad!
I can't recall an instance when your own take on an issue wasn't in complete lock-step with official LPC talking points.
another of your anti-PM Trudeau crew put me on the same notice a while back! ;D He went kinda mute when I gave examples where I have critiqued in the past, notably on the "other board"; like: criticism of Liberal party handling of the Chretien/Martin dust-up; questioning Liberal party support for KXL; questioning delays within the F-35 replacement file;... and more recently in regards the fake, trumped up Scheer/ConMedia fueled SNC-Lavalin "scandal", being critical of how long it took the Liberal Party to turf the meanSista's from cabinet/caucus. Better?
Buckwheat video...
(https://i.imgur.com/y0wynoc.png)
wow! Haters gonna hate!
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He's petty, a bully, quick-tempered, an ego-maniac and an attention-wh0re.
is that all ya got? ;D
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Trudeau is very progressive/woke in his government policies, and i believe he's sincere in those policies, be it women's rights or minorities/immigrants etc.
But for some reason, when it comes to his personal behaviour and how he interacts with people interpersonally he's not very progressive or woke or even nice. He's petty, a bully, quick-tempered, an ego-maniac and an attention-wh0re. Blackface is yet another thing he does to get attention, he CRAVES the limelight, be it acting, teaching in front of a class of students, running for political office, trying to impress on the international scene etc. His wife is similar. "What could i do at this gala that would get me the most attention? Oh yes wear brownface!".
If his party wins again i hope it's a minority, maybe that will take him down a peg.
Interesting how you contradict yourself yet again.
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:)
for someone, you, who said PM Trudeau isn't racist... where you said distantPastMakeupGate has no bearing/impact on his ability to govern... you're sure like a junkyard dog here! That you need to keep pumping your own narrative speaks to how weak your position truly is! And no, I wouldn't care a diddly about something someone did in high-school 35+ years prior - ya think! Is makeup on skin to be 'in character' racist? ... you say PM Trudeau isn't racist, so get over it! ;
It was 2001 and Trudeau was 30.
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:) It was 2001 and Trudeau was 30.
since you bit, I referred to the 'high school performance of Harry Belafonte's Day-0'. You're referring to the private-school 'Arabian Nights' costume theme party - and he was 29, but who is counting other than you? The vid, as I'm aware, hasn't been dated.
how old was Scheer in his 2005 comparison of homosexuals to dogs? How old was Scheer in 2003 when he worked for this most vile phacker, Baptist pastor and Alliance Party MP, Larry Spencer? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Spencer)
(https://i.imgur.com/c3qJG61.jpg)
as weak Andy repeatedly refuses to apologize for his gay-to-dogs comparison, as he holds the same homophobic views today, just how accepting are you of that, particularly in regards to distantPastMakeupGate?
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since you bit, I referred to the 'high school performance of Harry Belafonte's Day-0'. You're referring to the private-school 'Arabian Nights' costume theme party - and he was 29, but who is counting other than you? The vid, as I'm aware, hasn't been dated.
how old was Scheer in his 2005 comparison of homosexuals to dogs? How old was Scheer in 2003 when he worked for this most vile phacker, Baptist pastor and Alliance Party MP, Larry Spencer? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Spencer)
(https://i.imgur.com/c3qJG61.jpg)
as weak Andy repeatedly refuses to apologize for his gay-to-dogs comparison, as he holds the same homophobic views today, just how accepting are you of that, particularly in regards to distantPastMakeupGate?
All I did was comment on your selective memory. He turned 30 in 2001.
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All I did was comment on your selective memory.
I wasn't selective; that was in regards the '80s high-school performance' reference made - the "Day-O/Belafonte" one member kimmy kept harping on. Speaking of your selectivity, nothing to say about Scheer's homophobic statements/positions - so selective you are, hey! Please speak to your interpreted motivations for both weak Andy and PM Trudeau - yes?
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you truly have a hate-on - such venom in your words/phrasing... you're quite the charmer. As for your dumb-ass reach with those examples:
- try Grassy Narrows (Green River is somewhere in the U.S. ;D ) - it was at a private fundraiser; the 2 had been asked not to come into it but decided to crash the event and make a spectacle... they weren't from Grassy Narrows; were they even Indigenous? - you tell me, hey! In any case, the file was active and being worked on diligently - it wasn't being ignored!
(https://i.imgur.com/X0o2PFB.png)
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I believe the narrative of Blackfacegate isn't that JT is a racist, but that he has poor judgement and he's a hypocritical fraud.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/andrew-coyne-is-justin-trudeau-a-racist-no-he-is-a-sanctimonious-fraud
The fact that he's refused to confirm or deny if he's done blackface beyond the three instances where there's evidence means he probably did it more than just those instances. He also can't pinpoint when he determined Blackface wasn't cool.
We can talk about an 18 year old event as "ancient history" but that's also only 7 years before he was elected to parliament. I'm sure, had this been known then, his meteoric rise to the head of the LPC would have been severely blunted.
Regardless people have decided how this effects their votes already. It just proves as a tool to mock him, and probably will continue beyond this election campaign. "PM Blackface".
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(https://i.imgur.com/X0o2PFB.png)
Ahhh so now we're justifying mocking a protester. Good play. ;D
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Ahhh so now we're justifying mocking a protester. Good play. ;D
that's your jaded partisan interpretation; the graphic is simply a reminder for perspective on the work being done to resolve water advisories - since 2015... care to state what your favoured Harpo Conservatives did during their tenure? Care to offer credit for accomplishment - or further spin your agenda driven narrative?
you reaching for ConMedia's darling Coyne is a hoot! ;D Labeling sanctimonious in the face of the the homophobic Scheer is gold, real gold!
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Also, I trust that all poster critical of Scheer's Tax cut pledge last week are equally critical of JT's tax cut pledge as each are about as costly and targeted at similar people. Somewhat different but not all that much.
Dropping the rate of the first Tax bracket 2% vs. Increasing the sum at which one gets charged income tax by some $3,000.
If you're picking nits, you could say the LPC plan will effect people who make between 12k-15k eliminating the income tax burden on those people. BUT! if you have a full time job making the Ontario minimum rage of $14/h you've long blown past that 15K threshold.
From the CPC perspective the savings achieved on the LPC is only seen on that $3,000. Where as the CPC plan is a percentage drop on the money made in that first tax bracket. So where the LPC plan achieves more of a fixed tax savings, the CPC plan saves you more as you approach that $47,000 limit to the first tax bracket.
Still IMHO it's potatoes pot-a-oes.
The other POPULIST!!!! pledge PM Blackface made yesterday was a pledge to drop cell phone rates which is just a trash promise that will never actually be realized. It actually shows a level of desperation that they're trotting that old pledge out.
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that's your jaded partisan interpretation; the graphic is simply a reminder for perspective on the work being done to resolve water advisories - since 2015... care to state what your favoured Harpo Conservatives did during their tenure? Care to offer credit for accomplishment - or further spin your agenda driven narrative?
Perhaps JT could have pointed to his record on that file instead of mocking the protestor.
You reaching for ConMedia's darling Coyne is a hoot! ;D Labeling sanctimonious in the face of the the homophobic Scheer is gold, real gold!
The irony of PM's blackface week is that you can beat that drum on an internet messageaboard, but calling Scheer homophobic ended last week on the campaign trail.
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The other POPULIST!!!! pledge PM Blackface...
;D great to read you don't care for Scheer's homophobia being a comparative measure!
Perhaps JT could have pointed to his record on that file instead of mocking the protestor.
didn't take you for such a snowflake! It was a one-sentence comment thanking the 2 protestors for their donations... ya see... it was a private fund-raiser and they did donate... their unwanted spectacle.
The irony of PM's blackface week is that you can beat that drum on an internet messageaboard, but calling Scheer homophobic ended last week on the campaign trail.
and other than on your referenced internet messageboard, weak Andy et al, have gone quiet on distantPastMakeupGate. As for the compliant & willing ConMedia they still have bills to pay - the milking will continue. Do you really think this is the last kick at Scheer's homophobic can - really?
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;D great to read you don't care for Scheer's homophobia being a comparative measure!
Even if it is. It means that JT and the Liberals can't be throwing stones in glass houses anymore.
I could provide perspective to Scheer's 2005 speech and his current position as it speaks to the party's platform and pledge not to re-open the issue. But that's not really the point.
Any Liberal attempt to Virtue signal Scheer on personal stances on Abortion and Gay Marriage are completely blunted now that we know the leader of the LPC has/had a fetish for wearing blackface.
didn't take you for such a snowflake! It was a one-sentence comment thanking the 2 protestors for their donations... ya see... it was a private fund-raiser and they did donate... their unwanted spectacle.
Is also a mocking tone that undermines the message that JT tries to portray. A brief glimpse of his phoney persona.
and other than on your referenced internet messageboard, weak Andy et al, have gone quiet on distantPastMakeupGate. As for the compliant & willing ConMedia they still have bills to pay - the milking will continue. Do you really think this is the last kick at Scheer's homophobic can - really?
Beyond his initial reaction the night the story broke and in answering questions the day after, What other examples do you have of the CPC "Making Hay" of this issue.
The media certainly is but calling it the ConMedia is very Trumpian. It's media, in general. The CBC have devoted much time to this issue.
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Even if it is. It means that JT and the Liberals can't be throwing stones in glass houses anymore.
anymore? How sanctimonious... of you! This mud-slinging wasn't started by those Liberal cabinet ministers trotting out Scheer's 2005 homophobic speech; and yes it was a countering 'get out in front' action knowing distantPastMakeupGate was going to drop - eventually. It should be no surprise you're quite accepting to the months prior attack ads from Scheer acolytes - with lil' Hamish and his Rebel cohort fingerprints all over them! And again, distantPastMakeupGate was known by the Harper war-room and they chose not to go with it - as I said, how could it not have been known given the extents taken with "Oppo Research". I'd suggest you stay tuned as some intrepid legitimate journalists are on the trail as how it got released to the American Koch brothers owned Time... and the background of that "Vancouver businessman"... or the convenient release of the video by the Scheer campaign itself! More to come Boges, more to come!
I could provide perspective to Scheer's 2005 speech and his current position as it speaks to the party's platform and pledge not to re-open the issue. But that's not really the point.
perspective away - inquiring minds need your provided perspective - yes? That bullshyte narrative about "pledging not to re-open" means diddly in the face of Scheer willing to allow his MPs to bring forward their "bills of conscience" - notwithstanding the vigorous campaign by anti-abortionists to elect their favoured like-minded CPC candidates.
Any Liberal attempt to Virtue signal Scheer on personal stances on Abortion and Gay Marriage are completely blunted now that we know the leader of the LPC has/had a fetish for wearing blackface.
blunted? Are you serious? Scheer's reaction and how its been trumped up within the ConMedia has caused a significant rallying point for Liberal supporters - those forceful reactions (particularly from individual POC and related organizations) are probably the reason Scheer went silent on it so quickly... but then again, Rebel types are determined to keep it alive/going. Care to comment on the overall Quebec reaction to seeing how this has played out?
Is also a mocking tone that undermines the message that JT tries to portray. A brief glimpse of his phoney persona.
oh please snowflake - the tone, the tone! ;D Again, claiming hypocrisy/phoniness in the face of weak Andy's homophobia is gold, real gold!
calling it the ConMedia is very Trumpian. It's media, in general.
would you like me to re-post that directive the head of PostMedia gave? Care to comment on the G&M giving freaking Ezrant a forum to screech on - that decision made by the head-honcho editor? Or the Fife led G&M troops being fed directly by "axe-driven insiders"? Yup - ConMedia it is! Where have all the self-respecting legitimate journalists gone, hey! Trot out Andrew Coyne again - so refreshing to see you champion the ConMediaKing!
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since you bit, I referred to the 'high school performance of Harry Belafonte's Day-0'. You're referring to the private-school 'Arabian Nights' costume theme party - and he was 29, but who is counting other than you? The vid, as I'm aware, hasn't been dated.
The Liberals themselves said it was from the early to mid 1990s, which puts Trudeau in his early to mid 20s. So at about the same age Scheer was donning his ill-fitting suit for his ill-worded speech on gay marriage, Trudeau was donning...
(https://i.imgur.com/F3u0mjK.png)
how old was Scheer in his 2005 comparison of homosexuals to dogs?
And that's just dishonest.
“How many legs would a dog have if you counted the tail as a leg? The answer is just four,” Scheer said, paraphrasing a quote attributed to Abraham Lincoln.
“Just because a tail is called a leg does not make it a leg. If Bill C-38 passes, governments and individual Canadians will be forced to call a tail a leg, nothing more, but that is not inconsequential, for its effect on marriage, such an integral building block of our society, would have far-reaching effects.”
His argument, obviously, is that calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg, and calling a gay partnership a marriage doesn't make it a real marriage. The view that the word marriage should be reserved for traditional marriages was widely held at the time, and that gay people could enjoy the same rights under the description of "civil union". The divide in public opinion on the matter was pretty even at the time, if I recall correctly.
While I don't doubt that Scheer considers gay people to be gross and icky, the claim that he compared gay people to dogs is purely dishonest and a deliberate misrepresentation of his comment. And it's hilarious that you attempt to tone-police my wholly accurate comments about the Pasha of Papineau while at the same time peddling a whopper like this with a straight face.
-k
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And again, distantPastMakeupGate was known by the Harper war-room and they chose not to go with it - as I said, how could it not have been known given the extents taken with "Oppo Research". I'd suggest you stay tuned as some intrepid legitimate journalists are on the trail as how it got released to the American Koch brothers owned Time... and the background of that "Vancouver businessman"... or the convenient release of the video by the Scheer campaign itself! More to come Boges, more to come!
So you're resigned to the fact there'll be more? And you think Harper knew that JT had a blackface fetish in 2015 and didn't use it. His situation is far more dire than Scheer's situation. So you'd have to cite evidence for that opinion for me to entertain it. Sometimes things hide in plain site. Blackface is more accepted in Quebec, so perhaps this fetish went rather unnoticed in the ROC.
perspective away - inquiring minds need your provided perspective - yes? That bullshyte narrative about "pledging not to re-open" means diddly in the face of Scheer willing to allow his MPs to bring forward their "bills of conscience" - notwithstanding the vigorous campaign by anti-abortionists to elect their favoured like-minded CPC candidates.
Yeah and doomed to be defeated. There's no whipping these votes is there?
blunted? Are you serious? Scheer's reaction and how its been trumped up within the ConMedia has caused a significant rallying point for Liberal supporters - those forceful reactions (particularly from individual POC and related organizations) are probably the reason Scheer went silent on it so quickly... but then again, Rebel types are determined to keep it alive/going. Care to comment on the overall Quebec reaction to seeing how this has played out?
would you like me to re-post that directive the head of PostMedia gave? Care to comment on the G&M giving freaking Ezrant a forum to screech on - that decision made by the head-honcho editor? Or the Fife led G&M troops being fed directly by "axe-driven insiders"? Yup - ConMedia it is! Where have all the self-respecting legitimate journalists gone, hey! Trot out Andrew Coyne again - so refreshing to see you champion the ConMediaKing!
So, I'm curious. What's not ConMedia? Yes the media is keeping this story in the headlines. Because it's juicy and JT is being cagey when asked direct questions as to how many times he's done this and when he came to believe it was racist.
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The Liberals themselves said it was from the early to mid 1990s, which puts Trudeau in his early to mid 20s. So at about the same age Scheer was donning his ill-fitting suit for his ill-worded speech on gay marriage, Trudeau was donning...
good on ya for stating PM Trudeau is not racist; that this won't affect his ability to govern. What's equivalencies are you making with your reference to the dated comparisons, "early/mid 1990s to 2005"?
And that's just dishonest. His argument, obviously, is that calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg, and calling a gay partnership a marriage doesn't make it a real marriage.
Scheer went well beyond your apologist rationale with his bible-thumper sentiments in stating that:
Whatever is decided here on the bill, marriage itself will not be changed in reality. Through it all, marriage will endure unchanged. Marriage will exist because marriage does not come from the state and does not depend on the government.
somehow you're wanting to discount the money-shot where weak Andy disparages unions between childless heterosexual couples:
This is the last ruling that the Supreme Court rendered on the constitutionality of traditional marriage. Justice La Forest is saying that marriage exists primarily for the procreation of human beings. It is the essence of marriage and its primary focus. There is nothing more important to society than the raising of children, for its very survival requires it.
Homosexual unions are by nature contradictory to this. There is no complementarity of the sexes. Two members of the same sex may use their God-given free will to engage in acts, to cohabit and to own property together. They may commit themselves to monogamy. They may pledge to remain in a loving relationship for life. In that sense they have many of the collateral features of marriage, but they do not have its inherent feature, as they cannot commit to the natural procreation of children. They cannot therefore be married.
and, of course, Scheer did exactly what you don't like the waldo doing... discounting because of the datedness; which he effectively did in a media-scrum while also emphasizing it was nothing more than a distracting ploy from his own trumped-up driven, ConMedia fueled, fake SNC-Lavalin "scandal".
as to that quote, there is wide historian conjecture that Lincoln said no such thing; however, a like anecdote existed as far back as the 1840 U.S. abolitionist movement. Aside from weak Andy butchering what actually originally exists as: "This discussion reminds me of the boy who said to his father, "Father, how many legs would this calf have, calling the tail a leg? 'Why five, my son.' 'No, father, he can not. He would have only four.' 'Why, calling the tail a leg, you said, my boy.' 'Ah father! but calling the tail a leg, does not make it so, you know.' So also I would say to that gentlemen. You may call him an abolitionist any length of time you choose. It will not make him one."
and many in the gay community are interpreting Scheer's gays-to-dog analogy as exactly that - comparing married gay couples to 5-legged dogs! It is quite telling that you don't criticize weak Andy's outright refusal to apologize for the entirety of that speech - even after he's been given multiple opportunities to do so. So telling on you!
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and many in the gay community are interpreting Scheer's gays-to-dog analogy as exactly that - comparing married gay couples to 5-legged dogs!
And that would be wrong. The opposition to Gay Marriage, back then, was that it wasn't "marriage". Sure you could have Civil Unions but the definition of marriage is a heterosexual union.
It's literally semantics. Quibbling over the definition of a word.
A tail isn't a leg = Gay marriage isn't marriage.
Seems silly now, but that's what it was all about.
Sure in Scheer's mind that word is enshrined by a biblical definition but it's still just quibbling over the word. No one was proposing that Gay people shouldn't and couldn't unite under the law and received all benefits that are associated with being married. But it shouldn't be called marriage.
Having that opinion, at that time, wasn't that extreme. Now dressing in blackface in the 2001, on the other hand.
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And that would be wrong. The opposition to Gay Marriage, back then, was that it wasn't "marriage". Sure you could have Civil Unions but the definition of marriage is a heterosexual union.
It's literally semantics. Quibbling over the definition of a word.
A tail isn't a leg = Gay marriage isn't marriage.
Seems silly now, but that's what it was all about.
Sure in Scheer's mind that word is enshrined by a biblical definition but it's still just quibbling over the word. No one was proposing that Gay people shouldn't and couldn't unite under the law and received all benefits that are associated with being married. But it shouldn't be called marriage.
Having that opinion, at that time, wasn't that extreme. Now dressing in blackface in the 2001, on the other hand.
It was wrong then, it's wrong now. And it's fair to bring up and ask about Scheer's stance on gay marriage and other " social conservative" issues.
But that certainly doesn't excuse Trudeau's behaviour. And it doesn't make Trudeau's shitty lack of judgement any better.
Even Waldo knew not to run around in blackface in 2001!! Right Waldo? You knew it was wrong, didn't you?
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Even Waldo knew not to run around in blackface in 2001!! Right Waldo? You knew it was wrong, didn't you?
oh squiggy you... would it factor if there was no malicious intent and it reflected upon artistic character playing... like in a play, like in a themed event? How about yellowface and war paint, hey! Right squiggy?
(https://i.imgur.com/F9hYAFF.jpg)
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oh squiggy you... would it factor if there was no malicious intent and it reflected upon artistic character playing... like in a play, like in a themed event? How about yellowface and war paint, hey! Right squiggy?
oooohhh.... so this was a cultural exchange of sorts that Trudeau was on... where he was with people of that culture and encouraged to wear blackface in their honour... I get it now. Thanks for clarifying that... cuz, you know... context is everything, right?
(https://i.cbc.ca/1.2019671.1544126244!/cpImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/harper-ceremonial-chief-li.jpg)
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oooohhh.... so this was a cultural exchange of sorts that Trudeau was on...
now you're getting it squiggy; good on ya! If you think a white faced Aladdin is true to character, well... . If you think a high-school tribute performance of Harry Belafonte as a white-guy is true to character, well... . The other one I don't have context - seems to be lacking in media accounts - I'll wait for member kimmy to once again post the video image she so relishes and beats on!
geezaz! One of these guys is out of character, hey?
(https://i.imgur.com/XrAhTfs.png)
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now you're getting it squiggy; good on ya! If you think a white faced Aladdin is true to character, well... . If you think a high-school tribute performance of Harry Belafonte as a white-guy is true to character, well...
So... your opinion is that there's nothing wrong with blackface... if it's for a costume party... or something like that. It's no different than an indigenous ceremony where they honour the person with traditional garb. I didn't realize that was your position.
Well you should definitely try the blackface it for Halloween and see what people think Waldo.
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So... your opinion is that there's nothing wrong with blackface... if it's for a costume party... or something like that. It's no different than an indigenous ceremony where they honour the person with traditional garb. I didn't realize that was your position.
Well you should definitely try the blackface it for Halloween and see what people think Waldo.
not what I said, hey! You're missing something - what could it be, what could it be? ;D Oh right - the datedness aspect; you know, the waldo's fav tagline: distantPastMakeupGate! The modern-day examples were just for shytes & giggles to emphasize {varying degrees of} character attachment - ya think! Hey kemosabe, how about that Johnny Depp guy playing tonto - would you like a pic? And waddabout that 2019 Disney release of the Aladdin remake - where they used 100 actors in brownface - oh my!
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not what I said, hey! You're missing something - what could it be, what could it be? ;D Oh right - the datedness aspect; you know, the waldo's fav tagline: distantPastMakeupGate! The modern-day examples were just for shytes & giggles to emphasize {varying degrees of} character attachment - ya think! Hey kemosabe, how about that Johnny Depp guy playing tonto - would you like a pic? And waddabout that 2019 Disney release of the Aladdin remake - where they used 100 actors in brownface - oh my!
Waldo, waldo, waldo. How dumb can you get.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/stephen-harper-headdress-trudeau-blackface-1.5294119
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Waldo, waldo, waldo. How dumb can you get.
feel better? Ya wilber, I never read that article... or the related twitter verse machinations around it! ;D But hey now, how fn' dumb are you that you didn't read what I wrote... or even dumber if you actually read it and came at the waldo like this. In character attachment! With the added bonus offering the 2 pics showing one person not in character... as much as the other. Wait, what... you ignored my recent day Depp-Tonto reference, my recent day Disney Aladdin remake reference. C'mon member wilber, how dumb can you get?
anymore? How sanctimonious... of you! This mud-slinging wasn't started by those Liberal cabinet ministers trotting out Scheer's 2005 homophobic speech; and yes it was a countering 'get out in front' action knowing distantPastMakeupGate was going to drop - eventually. It should be no surprise you're quite accepting to the months prior attack ads from Scheer acolytes - with lil' Hamish and his Rebel cohort fingerprints all over them! And again, distantPastMakeupGate was known by the Harper war-room and they chose not to go with it - as I said, how could it not have been known given the extents taken with "Oppo Research". I'd suggest you stay tuned as some intrepid legitimate journalists are on the trail as how it got released to the American Koch brothers owned Time... and the background of that "Vancouver businessman"... or the convenient release of the video by the Scheer campaign itself! More to come Boges, more to come!
member Boges, a teaser on that... more to come - a tad rushed but there's a race on! ;D Dirty Tricks Behind Trudeau Brownface/Blackface Scandal? (https://freethepresscanada.org/2019/09/23/dirty-tricks-behind-trudeau-brownface-blackface-scandal/amp/?fbclid=IwAR2uEUsHmVe28_MMtRdpI8-8Eiv6InZv-NJhWal_FSSW-8DRsSaF12pGYrc)
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feel better? Ya wilber, I never read that article... or the related twitter verse machinations around it! ;D But hey now, how fn' dumb are you that you didn't read what I wrote... or even dumber if you actually read it and came at the waldo like this. In character attachment! With the added bonus offering the 2 pics showing one person not in character... as much as the other. Wait, what... you ignored my recent day Depp-Tonto reference, my recent day Disney Aladdin remake reference. C'mon member wilber, how dumb can you get?
I can’t believe you were dumb enough to post it. At least we have one thing in common, we are both making fun of the guy who applied the make up.
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I can’t believe you were dumb enough to post it. At least we have one thing in common, we are both making fun of the guy who applied the make up.
no, I'm not making fun of anyone... and wasn't the first to post it, or comment on it (https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/canada-discussion-forum/jt-getting-flack-for-his-india-outfits/msg17793/#msg17793).
hey didn't member kimmy's apology tour for Scheer mention that his 2005 anti-SSMarriage screed just reflected upon the, "prevailing civil union sentiments of the day"! As in... times change, hey! Yup 35 years ago... 20 years ago... cosplay wasn't in the vernacular - times change, hey! Why it was the same member kimmy who wanted to skewer that 2001 Arabian Nights theme event as Aladdin and the early 80s high-school performance of "Day O" by comparing them to the bruising negative criticism actor Danson took for his 1993 Friar's Roast gig - which was liberally peppered with the "N-word" and went well beyond the typical and traditional raucous/raunchy of Friar Roasts; with actor Danson even eating watermelon! Yup, member kimmy dropped that attempted equivalency while also barking out a dishonest labeling of the waldo for mentioning another equivalency made - that of weak Andy's comparison between homosexual couples and 5-legged dogs. Yup, member kimmy claiming dishonesty while openly flaunting her own!
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--R0BZeK2Y--/f_auto/fagzlrmtjgobrdkf5ait.jpg)
wait now... why... that black lady is laughing ??? Yup, times change, yes? And ya, 2019's cosplay doesn't accept blackface - times change, yes? But member wilber, you keep throwing that dumb labeling; the waldo will keep laughing at you - wait, is that the waldo making fun of you? ;D
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Go on you waldo!
I wish Trudeau would stop being such a wimp and apologizing for loving to do blackface. There's noting wrong with it!!!! ;D
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I know for damned sure that if a 20 year old photo of Andrew Scheer in blackface appeared, you wouldn't be saying "I don't believe he's a racist", you'd be pointing to it as proof of what you already believed about Scheer.
-k
And it's been pointed out several times now, Trudeau has done more for POC with his political policies and actions than Scheer ever has or ever will.
Scheer called gay people "dogs" and has done sweet f0ck all to show that he would do anything of substance for the 2SLGBTQIA+ communities.
So when you compare what the reaction would be to Scheer doing the things Trudeau has done, you should also be comparing how they've acted over the last 20 years as well. Context matters.
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I wish Trudeau would stop being such a wimp and apologizing for loving to do blackface. There's noting wrong with it!!!!
no, no, no member Boges - so wrong you are! PM Trudeau acknowledges that same, "times change", that the waldo so emphasized in my last post; that the datedness of 35 years ago, of 20 years ago, didn't have the same societal recognition as today. Even though the waldo offered several more current day examples (also tied to artistic expression... in character attachments... cosplay if you will), woke is awaken cause, you know, times change!
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I believe the narrative of Blackfacegate isn't that JT is a racist, but that he has poor judgement and he's a hypocritical fraud.
So we take things this one thing as the demonstrative example of his judgment and not anything he has done as Prime Minister over the last 4 years? It's as if some people are just looking for a reason to criticize him, so they ignore literally everything else and latch onto **** he did in his early 20s.
Do you think the things you did in your early 20s represent your judgment today (assuming you're 40 or older)?
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So we take things this one thing as the demonstrative example of his judgment and not anything he has done as Prime Minister over the last 4 years? It's as if some people are just looking for a reason to criticize him, so they ignore literally everything else and latch onto **** he did in his early 20s.
Do you think the things you did in your early 20s represent your judgment today (assuming you're 40 or older)?
Sure. But the Liberals spent a lot of time digging up past indiscretions. That's why he's a hypocrite. He would not have this level of sympathy for anyone else doing something so racist in their past.
There are a lot of other things that show JT's lack of judgement.
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I believe the narrative of Blackfacegate isn't that JT is a racist, but that he has poor judgement and he's a hypocritical fraud.
So we take things this one thing as the demonstrative example of his judgment and not anything he has done as Prime Minister over the last 4 years?
Ok, lets look at what he's done since becoming prime minister:
- Dressed up in 'traditional' Indian clothes for a visit to India (while the politicians he met there were wearing suit and ties)... overall, he looked rather silly
- Made a rather snide remark to a native protester who was complaining about mercury poisoning (which he ended up apologizing for)
Then of course there was the time when he was complaining about how the government was calling honor killings and female circumcision 'barbaric'. (He wasn't prime minister at the time, but he was an MP.)
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-thursday-edition-1.4547153/it-feels-like-a-weeklong-indian-wedding-trudeau-gets-a-dressing-down-over-india-outfits-1.4547159
https://globalnews.ca/news/5104937/justin-trudeau-protester-liberal-fundraiser/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-retracts-barbaric-remarks-1.985386
All in all, Trudeau's foibles (blackface/indian clothes/etc.) wouldn't preclude me from voting for him (I tend to vote based on policies). But they do illustrate a certain amount of tone-deafness.
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So we take things this one thing as the demonstrative example of his judgment and not anything he has done as Prime Minister over the last 4 years? It's as if some people are just looking for a reason to criticize him, so they ignore literally everything else and latch onto **** he did in his early 20s.
Do you think the things you did in your early 20s represent your judgment today (assuming you're 40 or older)?
He wasn’t in his early twenties the last time (that we know of). That selective memory again.
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Sure. But the Liberals spent a lot of time digging up past indiscretions.
Indiscretions as a politician are a different story, but then context is only important if you are ragging on someone.
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Sure. But the Liberals spent a lot of time digging up past indiscretions. That's why he's a hypocrite. He would not have this level of sympathy for anyone else doing something so racist in their past.
There are a lot of other things that show JT's lack of judgement.
You're making an awful lot of assumptions based on hypotheticals.
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Anyone see the palpable irony that there's a decent chance that Captain Election Reform could win this FPTP election and lose the popular vote?
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Anyone see the palpable irony that there's a decent chance that Captain Election Reform could win this FPTP election and lose the popular vote?
Would be funny.
I am hoping for a minority Conservative win, where the Libs, NDP and Greens make a coalition to form government. The Greens and NDP could then push electoral reform.
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duck... incoming chestnut!
Anyone see the palpable irony that there's a decent chance that Captain Election Reform could win this FPTP election and lose the popular vote?
...
- electoral reform... that ole' chestnut! Yet another false narrative dug out by anti-Trudeau/LPC types - like you!. Point in fact a parliamentary committee was struck, town hall meetings were conducted across the country and a national survey was distributed. The end result was no clear choice emerged for an alternative system of voting - PM Trudeau stated he wouldn't make a change for the sake of change, in particular to a flavour of proportional representation with its inherent divisiveness. And, of course, we had Scheer/CPC out in full force demanding a national referendum. There absolutely was none of your claimed, "ditching it as soon as elected", bullshyte!
c'mon member Boges, there was no consensus between parties... and there was no consensus after all those townhall meetings, national surveys, parliamentary committee work, etc.. Other than flapping about demanding a national referendum, wasn't it Conservatives who were in favour of retaining FPTP - yes?
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...where the Libs, NDP and Greens make a coalition to form government
;D geezaz, even when that last go-around was hardly a given, didn't Harper Conservatives go on an national campaign whining and wailing about, "democracy being stolen"... about, "the people's will being ignored"! The proper way to do coalition government: before an election form that coalition and let the electorate vote accordingly - yes?
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Conservatives who were in favour of retaining FPTP - yes?
Yes, that's why it'd be ironic.
BTW, would Canadians have a consensus on anything? It seems like a convenient excuse because JT's preferred alternative method wasn't that popular. Ranked balloting, I believe.
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BTW, would Canadians have a consensus on anything? It seems like a convenient excuse because JT's preferred alternative method wasn't that popular. Ranked balloting, I believe.
and Conservatives were/are dead set against preferential balloting because... Conservatives are the consensus second choice of NO group of voters - any riding without a first ballot majority would see the Conservative candidate overtaken by either a Liberal or NDP candidate. Is it any wonder Conservatives campaigned so vigourously for a national referendum... scared shyteless that they would lose their perpetual reliance on splitting the "progressive vote"!
member Boges, the Liberal majority was there! When you play that ole chestnut complaining that FPTP still exists, how would that compare to your complaints over that Liberal majority carrying through with a change to preferential balloting?
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The College of Family Physicians of Canada has evaluated the overall party platforms emphasis on healthcare... with specificity towards its priority topics:
(https://i.imgur.com/oZUbRvw.png)
geezaz! Red all around for Scheer/CPC => NO INVOLVEMENT - NO PLAN! oh my!
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The way to reform FPTP is for people to stop voting for silly splinter parties. Your real choice is Liberal or Conservative. The rest are just collections of malcontents, dissenters and idiots.
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Red all around for Scheer/CPC => NO INVOLVEMENT - NO PLAN!
I am sure they have a plan. The same plan as their environmental plan. Tax breaks for corporations. That will solve all ills.
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(https://i.redd.it/70ndie4f92e01.jpg)
(https://assets.nationalnewswatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/MAC2862-770x611.jpg)
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- electoral reform... that ole' chestnut! Yet another false narrative dug out by anti-Trudeau/LPC types - like you!. Point in fact a parliamentary committee was struck, town hall meetings were conducted across the country and a national survey was distributed. The end result was no clear choice emerged for an alternative system of voting - PM Trudeau stated he wouldn't make a change for the sake of change, in particular to a flavour of proportional representation with its inherent divisiveness. And, of course, we had Scheer/CPC out in full force demanding a national referendum.
c'mon member Boges, there was no consensus between parties... and there was no consensus after all those townhall meetings, national surveys, parliamentary committee work, etc.. Other than flapping about demanding a national referendum, wasn't it Conservatives who were in favour of retaining FPTP - yes?
and Conservatives were/are dead set against preferential balloting because... Conservatives are the consensus second choice of NO group of voters - any riding without a first ballot majority would see the Conservative candidate overtaken by either a Liberal or NDP candidate. Is it any wonder Conservatives campaigned so vigourously for a national referendum... scared shyteless that they would lose their perpetual reliance on splitting the "progressive vote"!
member Boges, the Liberal majority was there! When you play that ole chestnut complaining that FPTP still exists, how would that compare to your complaints over that Liberal majority carrying through with a change to preferential balloting?
(https://i.redd.it/70ndie4f92e01.jpg)(https://assets.nationalnewswatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/MAC2862-770x611.jpg)
c'mon member squiggy! You made a bold statement and I encouraged... challenged... you on it. I even laid down a reminder post for you in that dedicated GP thread... as I said, I tasked you in how you might gain a semblance of credibility on the subject by attempting to support your favoured May/GP "Mission Improbable" plan. And when you did so... do so... the waldo might be inclined to dance further - to engage you on your nothingness drive-by swipe!
but look, here you are in this thread with yet another drive-by swipe. Hey now, considering the issue of electoral reform isn't topical in this election, perhaps you could step-up and make a case for:
- your acceptance if the majority Liberal government had chosen to implement preferential balloting... you seem to be all about 'change for the sake of change' - yes?
- your preferred electoral reform option! I'm going to go with...... uhhhh... PR! ;D Of course, there are about a half-dozen flavours of PR - mixed member PR anyone, anyone, anyone? But wait, what's this? PR may not be the utopia all Greens dream of - oh my, say it ain't so!
- waddabout if the waldo gave you a reality dose in problems with PR - particularly with today's rise of altl/right-wing populist dictator types, the resurgence of xenophobia and nationalism, etc.. Like in the UK - you know, where PR would have allowed the most questionable UKIP Party to become the 3rd largest party in the UK Parliament... or that wingnut Nigel Farage's Brexit Party could have placed even higher! There's a real concern how PR could allow "fringe parties" significant influence - some, certainly not the waldo, view the May/GP as just another fringe party... particularly after the major failures in its Mission Improbable plan and the costing/viability of its platform proper! Didja hear the story of PR in Italy... where it took them over 500 days to arrive at a consensus given so many {fringe} parties at play - geezaz that's a huuuge time to be without a government - yes?
but like I said... it's not a campaign issue in this election, so if you want to spin your wheels, have at er!
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member Boges, the Liberal majority was there! When you play that ole chestnut complaining that FPTP still exists, how would that compare to your complaints over that Liberal majority carrying through with a change to preferential balloting?
Cite where I complained? I just stated the irony of the chance the JT may win while losing the popular vote.
It seems that because the Liberals stood to gain from ranked balloting and that wasn't the popular alternative, they took their ball and went home. Now Electoral reform seems deader then ever.
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Trudeau plans on running 20 billion plus deficits for the next four years. At that rate he will add 100 billion to the federal debt in 8 years. He will never, ever balance a budget.
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Trudeau plans on running 20 billion plus deficits for the next four years. At that rate he will add 100 billion to the federal debt in 8 years. He will never, ever balance a budget.
Funny, that is about 45% what Harper added to the federal debt in 8 years.
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Funny, that is about 45% what Harper added to the federal debt in 8 years.
You think it's a good idea then?
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You think it's a good idea then?
Nope, Harper should never have cut the corporate tax rate. That alone would have balanced the budget. The GST cut is another blunder.
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Nope, Harper should never have cut the corporate tax rate. That alone would have balanced the budget. The GST cut is another blunder.
The GST cut was before the recession. I didn't see many Canadians complaining about it at the time. Trudeau's Liberals obviously agree with the cut because I don't see them raising the GST back up. More likely they'd love to raise the GST back up, they just don't have the political courage to do so because it would be unpopular.
The Liberals are worse than tax-and-spend. They're tax and borrow. They'd rather have unending deficits and perceptually increase the debt and interest payments than tax to pay for it. Trudeau has never had to worry about paying for anything in his life, so why would he care? Money grows on trees in his reality.
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Funny, that is about 45% what Harper added to the federal debt in 8 years.
During a massive recession, though. Let's thank him where thanking is due. That's why he was elected a few times...
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I know I have criticized the 'horse race' coverage vs. the coverage of ideas, but I think we can safely say we won't have any revolutionary new ideas. Some scandals and some personal branding is all we're going to get and Trudeau's adequateness seems to be winning the day, to the relief of most.
So here you go:
http://338canada.com/
(https://i.imgur.com/2KcFhVa.png)
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A good # of supporters of smaller parties tend to change their votes come election day in the name of strategery. This favours the Liberals. Hopefully it's a minority. Hopefully Trudeau doesn't win his seat (ha!), hopefully the Bloc gets no seats.
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:o
Funny, that is about 45% what Harper added to the federal debt in 8 years.
Trudeau will never, ever balance a budget no matter how well the economy is doing. He is a can we afford the payments guy who has no intention of paying anything off. You can point at Harper all you want, your great great grand children will be paying interest on what you borrow and be getting sweet FA for those tax dollars.
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During a massive recession, though. Let's thank him where thanking is due. That's why he was elected a few times...
the massive recession that didn't hit us nearly as hard as the other OECD nations because of the financial position that the Liberal Party put us in? That "massive" recession?
Do you think the average Canadian is better off now that consumption tax is 2% lower or do you think maybe, just maybe it was a bullshit populist ploy to get re-elected that actually did more harm by devastating federal revenues making the government incapable of running much-needed social support programs? I mean, the CPC's entire reason for being is to destroy social programs and give tax breaks to the rich. **** anyone who didn't start on third base.
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the massive recession that didn't hit us nearly as hard as the other OECD nations because of the financial position that the Liberal Party put us in? That "massive" recession?
Do you think the average Canadian is better off now that consumption tax is 2% lower or do you think maybe, just maybe it was a bullshit populist ploy to get re-elected that actually did more harm by devastating federal revenues making the government incapable of running much-needed social support programs? I mean, the CPC's entire reason for being is to destroy social programs and give tax breaks to the rich. **** anyone who didn't start on third base.
Why do you think the recession didn’t hit us as hard? A: Our banks were more sound and not as exposed to the sub prime nonsense. B: Governmen stimulus, ie. deficit spending, which the opposition was calling for more at the time.
P.G is right, Trudeau is a tax and spend guy, he will never balance a budget because he doesn’t believe in paying for things, just buying them. That is the whole philosophy behind just looking at debt vs GDP and nothing else.
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:o
Trudeau will never, ever balance a budget
...
You can point at Harper all you want
The difference between the two is Trudeau is slowly decreasing the debt:GDP ratio and Harper increased it. At least Trudeau is heading in the right direction. Perhaps too slowly for you, but Harper did 2 thing way too fast. He gave away massive gifts to the rich, and he wrecked havoc with programs and held fire sales on national assets. I would rather have a slow and true approach than a quick irresponsible destructive one.
Trudeau is a tax and spend guy, he will never balance a budget because he doesn’t believe in paying for things, just buying them.
Conservatives are destroy people, they will never balance a budge (and history has proven that correct) because they act totally irresponsibly and give away the store to their crony friends.
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The difference between the two is Trudeau is slowly decreasing the debt:GDP ratio and Harper increased it. At least Trudeau is heading in the right direction. Perhaps too slowly for you, but Harper did 2 thing way too fast. He gave away massive gifts to the rich, and he wrecked havoc with programs and held fire sales on national assets. I would rather have a slow and true approach than a quick irresponsible destructive one.
Conservatives are destroy people, they will never balance a budge (and history has proven that correct) because they act totally irresponsibly and give away the store to their crony friends.
Why should your kids and grand kids be saddled with paying for services you used as well as trying to pay for their own? Oh, I know, they will just borrow more and pass the accumulated debt of previous generations on to their kids. Using debt to GDP as a justification to burden future generations is patently dishonest. Trudeau will never balance a budget because he doesn’t believe in actually paying for things.
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Why should your kids and grand kids be saddled with paying for services you used as well as trying to pay for their own? Oh, I know, they will just borrow more and pass the accumulated debt of previous generations on to their kids. Using debt to GDP as a justification to burden future generations is patently dishonest. Trudeau will never balance a budget because he doesn’t believe in actually paying for things.
I agree, raise taxes. I have been saying that since Harper destroyed the $14 billion surplus he was handed on a golden platter that would have allowed us to pay down the Mulroney $325 billion debt (plus interest). The Liberals don't have courage, and the Canada hating Conservatives would campaign hard (using their usual lies) against anyone who did.
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I agree, raise taxes. I have been saying that since Harper destroyed the $14 billion surplus he was handed on a golden platter that would have allowed us to pay down the Mulroney $325 billion debt (plus interest). The Liberals don't have courage, and the Canada hating Conservatives would campaign hard (using their usual lies) against anyone who did.
You act like the 2009 global melt down never happened. Let’s see how Trudeau does in a major recession when he can’t run less than a 20B deficit when the economy is expanding.
Trudeau is exactly the type of guy Thunberg was talking about, someone relying on continual growth to justify borrowing from future generations and not paying it back. That is all this debt to GDP BS is all about.
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the massive recession that didn't hit us nearly as hard as the other OECD nations because of the financial position that the Liberal Party put us in? That "massive" recession?
The Chretien/Martin Liberals put us in a better financial position, with help from a long bull economy in the 90's. But a lot of our macro banking structure was in place long before they were in power or even before they were born. Our banking system is structured much differently than that of the US Ours is more centralized with larger and fewer banks that can withstand economic shock without needing a bailout, while the US has more and smaller banks with different (and less regulated) finance policies split along state lines. For instance, no Canadian banks went bankrupt during the 30's great depression, unlike in the US. By nature our banking system is more robust and has always been.
Why Canada Didn't Have a Banking Crisis in 2008: https://www.nber.org/digest/dec11/w17312.html
Starting in the nineteenth century, Canada and the United States took divergent paths: Canada set up a concentrated banking system that controlled mortgage lending and investment banking under the watchful eye of a single, strong regulator. The United States allowed a weak, fragmented system to develop, with far more small (and less stable) banks...
Long before 2008 in the United States, there were the failures of the private investment bank Jay Cooke and Co. (the 1873 crisis), the Knickerbocker Trust (the 1907 panic), and the runs on banks that deepened the Great Depression. Although Canada's economy suffered a collapse equally as dramatic as America's in the 1930s, not one of its banks failed.
"The twin weaknesses of the American financial system -- a commercial banking system divided along state lines and volatile financial markets in which a 'shadow banking system' of unregulated or lightly regulated investment banks and other financial intermediaries participated -- produced a series of financial panics," the authors write. "There were major banking panics in 1837, 1857, 1873, 1893, and 1907, and minor panics in 1839, 1884, and 1890."...For more than a century, the Canadian system has proven itself far more stable than its U.S. counterpart, the authors conclude.
Alberta oil also helped us get through the global recession, but we still suffered. The TSX didn't get back to 2008 pre-recession levels until 2014. That hurt a lot of retirees counting on their RRSP investments, and it also hurt government revenues.
Do you think the average Canadian is better off now that consumption tax is 2% lower or do you think maybe, just maybe it was a bullshit populist ploy to get re-elected that actually did more harm by devastating federal revenues making the government incapable of running much-needed social support programs?
Somebody on low-income or EI or CPP isn't going to need as much money from the gov in support if they have to spend 2% less at the store and have 2% more in their pockets to spend. A consumption tax takes money from everyone, including the poor. It would be better to take more income tax from higher tax brackets who aren't struggling to make ends meet. I don't see the Liberals raising the GST back up...is that a "BS populist ploy to get re-elected"? The Liberals are constantly giving away more money in social benefits without raising taxes to pay for it, is that a "BS populist ploy to get re-elected", while harming Canada's finances?
I mean, the CPC's entire reason for being is to destroy social programs and give tax breaks to the rich. **** anyone who didn't start on third base.
I think that's hyperbole. They did give tax breaks to the rich, but they also gave tax breaks to the poor and everybody else. The GST cut is an example. Scheer wants to give tax breaks to lower incomes. Can you name any social programs the CPC "destroyed"? They mucked with CPP a bit, which I didn't agree with, that's all I can think of.
I think there's a proper balance to be found between CPC's cutting taxes for its own sake and the Liberals giving everyone the moon without paying for it in the budget.
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Why do you think the recession didn’t hit us as hard? A: Our banks were more sound and not as exposed to the sub prime nonsense. B: Governmen stimulus, ie. deficit spending, which the opposition was calling for more at the time.
P.G is right, Trudeau is a tax and spend guy, he will never balance a budget because he doesn’t believe in paying for things, just buying them. That is the whole philosophy behind just looking at debt vs GDP and nothing else.
I didn't say he was a tax-and-spend guy, I said Trudeau was a tax-and-borrow guy. But I misspoke, what I meant to say is that Trudeau is a spend-and-borrow guy, which is much worse than tax-and-spend, because at least by taxing you are paying for your own policies instead of making your grandkids pay for it PLUS the interest on the borrowing.
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You act like the 2009 global melt down never happened.
You are ignoring the iron clad fact that Harper turned $14 billion surplus into a deficit before the recession.
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You are ignoring the iron clad fact that Harper turned $14 billion surplus into a deficit before the recession.
And then he robbed the "rainy day fund" and sold GM shares at bargain basement prices to phony up a final budget "surplus".
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You are ignoring the iron clad fact that Harper turned $14 billion surplus into a deficit before the recession.
In fiscal year 2007-2008, the federal government ran a surplus of $9.6 billion, according to the annual financial report. It wasn't until the 2008-2009 fiscal year that the government recorded a budget deficit.
The 'great recession' began in the U.S. in December 2007, and a little bit later in Canada (in 2008), so the economic slowdown was already underway when the Canadian government began recording deficits.
https://www.fin.gc.ca/afr-rfa/2010/afr-rfa-10-eng.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession
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so the economic slowdown was already underway when the Canadian government began recording deficits.
In the fall of 2008, halfway through the 2008-09 budget year, we had an election. Harper told us that the finances were wonderful, and we would not be affected by the recession.
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You are ignoring the iron clad fact that Harper turned $14 billion surplus into a deficit before the recession.
No he didn't. Show me the evidence. Show me the budget.
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And then he robbed the "rainy day fund" and sold GM shares at bargain basement prices to phony up a final budget "surplus".
Not to mention a public service hiring freeze. Now we're getting warmer.
Harper turned into a corrupt controlling jerkface somewhere halfway through his time as PM. Luckily the voters were smart enough to realize it and vote him out.
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In the fall of 2008, halfway through the 2008-09 budget year, we had an election. Harper told us that the finances were wonderful, and we would not be affected by the recession.
Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I see no evidence presented. He's a politician so maybe he did. Show us a quote.
The fact is the Harper gov did not run a deficit until the recession began around mid-late 2008, after the TSX was starting to plummet and after the budget, which was balanced (no deficit or surplus due to economic uncertainty down south), was tabled in Feb 2008. I have previously posted many links showing this. This is contrary to your claim that Harper's gov ran a deficit before the recession. The Harper gov is far from perfect, but stop claiming falsehoods as "iron clad facts".
As for the election, the TSX started to plummet in Sept. 2008 the exact same time the US's S&P 500/Dow started to plummet, which happened to be at the exact same time as the 2008 election. That's not Harper's fault, it's coincidence.
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It should also be mentioned that Harper was running a minority gov in 2008. The Feb. 2008 budget was also supported by the Liberal Party who voted for it.
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I didn't say he was a tax-and-spend guy, I said Trudeau was a tax-and-borrow guy. But I misspoke, what I meant to say is that Trudeau is a spend-and-borrow guy, which is much worse than tax-and-spend, because at least by taxing you are paying for your own policies instead of making your grandkids pay for it PLUS the interest on the borrowing.
My bad but we agree completely.
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The whole Whataboutism with Harper just shows that JT has no real accomplishments he can run on.
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The whole Whataboutism with Harper just shows that JT has no real accomplishments he can run on.
care to distinguish your boy, Andrew Scheer, in terms of what Scheer/CPC are, as you say, "running on"? You seem quite emboldened here - as such, surely you must have a ready-reference list you can easily put forward - surely - yes?
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No he didn't. Show me the evidence. Show me the budget.
Budget's are propaganda, look at the fiscal tables.
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The whole Whataboutism with Harper just shows that JT has no real accomplishments he can run on.
Agreed, but Conservatives pretending they have answers when their record is worse is dumb.
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Budget's are propaganda, look at the fiscal tables.
Sure but you still haven't shown how the Harper gov posted a deficit before the recession, as per your claim of "ironclad fact".
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The claim that debt to GDP is among the lowest is largely bogus. Our total debt to GDP is higher than both the UK and the US. One way Martin cut the deficit was slashing transfers to provinces including large cuts in health care transfers. As a result, federal debt to GDP dropped while other government’s debt ballooned to make up the difference. Canada’s total government debt to GDP is just under 90%, not 35%.
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The claim that debt to GDP is among the lowest is largely bogus. Our total debt to GDP is higher than both the UK and the US. One way Martin cut the deficit was slashing transfers to provinces including large cuts in health care transfers. As a result, federal debt to GDP dropped while other government’s debt ballooned to make up the difference. Canada’s total government debt to GDP is just under 90%, not 35%.
We what now?
This is the most recent OECD numbers:
(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319399179/figure/fig10/AS:533423531597825@1504189488353/Government-Debt-as-a-Percentage-of-GDP-of-G7-Countries-Source-OECD-2017.png)
You think there was some sudden spike in these figures?
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And just to give the current figures from the IMF:
Canada: 87.3
France: 97.0
Germany: 59.8
Italy: 131.5
Japan: 236.4
United Kingdom: 87.0
United States: 107.8
Canada is literally the third lowest according to the OECD, as of 2017.
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Number discussion !!! :D
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Number discussion !!! :D
The thing is, instead of wilber admitting that maybe the Liberals are doing just fine, he will just double down on hating on Trudeau (probably by moving the goalposts). Or he'll dismiss the data because it's 2017 numbers, even though those are the most recent ones that have been corroborated by the IMF and even though there's a pretty consistent pattern there (we don't tend to see wild fluctuations).
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I like how, in Trudeau's world, it's OK to pollute as much as you want as long as you purchase carbon offsets.
So you can produce twice as much carbon for your campaign as any of the other parties as long as you can afford to pay extra.
That's a great message to send Canadians. :D
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One way Martin cut the deficit was slashing transfers to provinces including large cuts in health care transfers. As a result, federal debt to GDP dropped while other government’s debt ballooned to make up the difference. Canada’s total government debt to GDP is just under 90%, not 35%.
Martin and Chretien inherited a very strong US economic bull market run in 90's. They came into power just as the recession ended and enjoyed the prosperous 90's. This meant good economic times in Canada as well, and to their credit they smartly chose to use this opportunity to pay down the debt year after year via surplus.
When the recession hit in 2008, the minority Harper gov supported by the Liberals and other parties smartly chose to run deficits to stimulate the economy and maintain social programs like EI when EI payouts by the gov were very large. Any other party in power would have and should have done this. Show me another OECD country in recession that didn't do this.
This is a foundation of Keynesian economics that governments have been doing for over half a century: run deficits to stimulate an economy during bad times and then pay back that debt during good economic times, rinse & repeat.
The Harper gov ran a massive deficit in 2009, and every year after that kept reducing the deficit until it was balanced in 2015 (albeit through some creative trickery that year to look good for the election). This follows the recovery of the TSX as it didn't recover from pre-recession levels until 2014.
The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year and has said will continue to do so well into the future. This means we'll be in a worse and more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again. A bunch of you would be criticizing Scheer if he had been doing this the last 4 years.
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This is a foundation of Keynesian economics that governments have been doing for over half a century: run deficits to stimulate an economy during bad times and then pay back that debt during good economic times, rinse & repeat.
It's funny to see you cite Keynes, while also arguing against carbon tax. Do we believe in market forces or nah?
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It's funny to see you cite Keynes, while also arguing against carbon tax. Do we believe in market forces or nah?
Where have I argued against a carbon tax?
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so the economic slowdown was already underway when the Canadian government began recording deficits.
In the fall of 2008, halfway through the 2008-09 budget year, we had an election. Harper told us that the finances were wonderful, and we would not be affected by the recession.
Whether it is true or not, that is a different issue than your claim that "Harper started deficits before the recession".
In other words, you seem to be shifting the goalposts.
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When the recession hit in 2008, the minority Harper gov supported by the Liberals and other parties smartly chose to run deficits to stimulate the economy and maintain social programs like EI when EI payouts by the gov were very large.
That is not what I have a problem with. Aside from the corporate tax cuts, Harper decided that he would spend billions on brain-dead shovel-ready projects he could erect GPS located signs around to boost his electoral campaign. Gazebos for re-election.
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That is not what I have a problem with. Aside from the corporate tax cuts, Harper decided that he would spend billions on brain-dead shovel-ready projects he could erect GPS located signs around to boost his electoral campaign. Gazebos for re-election.
Not sure I follow. You mean like some of those "economic action plan" projects? The quality of some of the spending I suppose is another issue to look at. I wouldn't defend all of it certainly, I had a bunch of problems with his government like most people. I'm not a Harper flag-waver.
One of the things I would have done for stimulus is instead of simply spending on things such as infrastructure for the sake of spending, is to put money back into the pockets of regular people like lower income folks who would be likely to spend it in our economy and not putting it into a savings account. Some of that was accomplished with the prior GST cut, but that was a permanent cut aimed at all income brackets. It would have been as easy as temporarily increasing the quarterly GST rebates for lower and middle incomes, or increasing EI benefit payouts.
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I like how, in Trudeau's world, it's OK to pollute as much as you want as long as you purchase carbon offsets.
So you can produce twice as much carbon for your campaign as any of the other parties as long as you can afford to pay extra.
That's a great message to send Canadians. :D
May states the Green Party purchases offsets; Singh states the NDP intends to purchase offsets; Scheer/CPC state they don't/didn't purchase offsets
the revered Suzuki... and the Pembina Institute offer qualified acceptance to purchasing offsets. Given weak Andy's shrill wailing & whining about the LPC's 2 planes (da plane + da plane), the LPC named the organization they purchase offsets from. C'mon member Boges, do some leg-work - show these offsets meet the criteria to satisfy Suzuki/Pembina... or don't meet it. The waldo's crew can't do all the work for you - yes?
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May states the Green Party purchases offsets
I remember in former elections they also tried to use the train or other more sustainable forms of transportation that an airplane. I haven't followed any of the campaigns this year.
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I just checked my voter registration at elections.ca. I see that we are now progressive, one of the questions is gender and they accept "gender X" as a response. Note I checked it out because in the Ontario election last year I had moved and had a lot of problems (3 times on-line, 2 times on phone, and finally went to the office) getting the new address registered. This time everything was already correct.
On a related note, check out Jill Soloway on the Colbert show last night. While I never had a problem using someone's preferred pronoun, I had been confused by the "they" pronoun as it seems to imply plural. Jill gave an excellent justification for it.
reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lxg7EXF5E4
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Turns out Scheer has American citizenship. Maybe the Liberals can repurpose the old CPC ads against Michael Ignatieff.
Andrew Scheer! He’s not here for you!
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That is not what I have a problem with. Aside from the corporate tax cuts, Harper decided that he would spend billions on brain-dead shovel-ready projects he could erect GPS located signs around to boost his electoral campaign. Gazebos for re-election.
If you are going to borrow, it should be for things like infrastructure and pay it back so future generations aren’t stuck with still paying for things that were torn down before they were born. If you borrow for new social programs it just means you are starting programs for things you can’t afford and will have to borrow every year to keep them running. You are just asking future generations to pay for your programs as well as their own.
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If you are going to borrow, it should be for things like infrastructure
Real infrastructure ok, but gazebos are make work projects. The only criteria the government had was "shovel ready", which turned into mostly trinkets and white elephants.
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Real infrastructure ok, but gazebos are make work projects. The only criteria the government had was "shovel ready", which turned into mostly trinkets and white elephants.
Hey now I'm a boy originally from Muskoka and I try to get back there for a summer visit now and then. Don't be mesin' with my gazebos. :D
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Conservatives boot out BC candidate. Too late to run another person and maybe too late to change how the ballots look.
https://theprovince.com/news/local-news/conservatives-drop-burnaby-north-seymour-candidate-after-homophobic-comments/wcm/d71b8c6b-e655-48e2-8070-6b2f127fe310
Where do the Con supporters go? Do they stay home? Vote for this homophobic bigot anyway? Move to the PPC? Or Libs?
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Hey now I'm a boy originally from Muskoka and I try to get back there for a summer visit now and then. Don't be mesin' with my gazebos. :D
OUR gazebos!
We paid for them, they're OURS!
Lolol
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OUR gazebos!
We paid for them, they're OURS!
Lolol
We probably paid for them a few times over. But you can never have too many gazebos.
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I remember in former elections they also tried to use the train or other more sustainable forms of transportation that an airplane. I haven't followed any of the campaigns this year.
This is fricken hilarious:
'My election carbon footprint is smaller than yours!'
Trudeau was forced to respond to his entourage’s preferred mode of travel on Wednesday night during the first French-language debate. He was pressed by his main opponent, Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer, who called him a "high-carbon hypocrite."
"Only one leader has two planes for his campaign, one for you Mr. Trudeau and the media, and the other for your costumes and your gifts. That’s your choice. You’re a false environmental defender," said Scheer in the debate.
Trudeau snapped back, saying the Liberals have purchased carbon offsets for their dual plane use – something the Conservatives have not done.
Ooooooo... the 2 big environmental disaster corporate fossil fuel toadies spatting about their small feet.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!
[
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CPC and Liberals are now in a dead heat for the popular vote poll projections, and Liberals maintaining a small edge in seat projections but it's still close.
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/
This is going to be fun.
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{poonMan touts highly dubious Poll Tracker aggregate}
as the waldo stated some weeks back, Grenier has been in dustups with pollsters over his use of their data... he absolutely hasn't repaired the riff with Nanos in regards regional polling (that Nanos keeps under subscription control) - at the moment I don't recall the name of the other polling company that was also being excluded from Poll Tracker (at that company's request).
waldo PSA - try 338 Polling for a more representative accounting
but yes, there has been a tightening principally due to Jagoff Singh and the SEPARATIST BQ impacting upon Dear Leader PM Trudeau's margins!
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so all you proponents of Proportional Rep... leading to coalition possibilities: Jagoff Singh says the NDP won't support/prop-up a minority government... Lizzie May says the GP will but only if ALL GP demands are met... and the SEPARATIST BQ doesn't care about the rest of Canada outside of Quebec.
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after a 5 month vaca, will Wiarton
Willie Ford actually surface again - evah! ;D How telling was it that Jason Kenney traveled all the way from Alberta to campaign for weak Andy... in Ontario!
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so all you proponents of Proportional Rep... leading to coalition possibilities: Jagoff Singh says the NDP won't support/prop-up a minority government... Lizzie May says the GP will but only if ALL GP demands are met... and the SEPARATIST BQ doesn't care about the rest of Canada outside of Quebec.
Did Singh really say he wouldn't support a minority government ? Uh-oh. That means we may have back to back elections now...
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.waldo PSA - try 338 Polling for a more representative accounting
but yes, there has been a tightening principally due to Jagoff Singh and the SEPARATIST BQ impacting upon Dear Leader PM Trudeau's margins!
338 says the exact same thing for the popular vote polling (tied around 32%) but gives Liberals more of an edge for seats projections.
Come time for the ballot box the Greens and NDP lost about 1-2% each to the Liberals in the actual election from what the latest polls had said due to strategic voting, so Liberals i think still have an edge.
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Did Singh really say he wouldn't support a minority government ? Uh-oh. That means we may have back to back elections now...
That's a really dumb thing for him to say.
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but yes, there has been a tightening principally due to Jagoff Singh and the SEPARATIST BQ impacting upon Dear Leader PM Trudeau's margins!
You mean fewer people are going to vote strategically for a slightly less corrupt Liberal over a Conservative?
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You mean fewer people are going to vote strategically for a slightly less corrupt Liberal over a Conservative?
How have the opposition Cons been corrupt?
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with weak Andy/CPC finally releasing an election platform... The Institute of Fiscal Studies and Democracy (IFSD) has now completed its analysis of federal party platforms; as below, the respective IFSD Fiscal Credibility Assessments:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZwbB9jF.png)
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on the Friday before the Thanksgiving long weekend... after all the Leaders’ debates have passed... and after thousands of Canadians have already cast their (advance) ballots, Scheer/CPC finally released their platform => which includes $53 billion in cuts, including $14 billion in hidden cuts.
(https://i.imgur.com/fS11rHF.png)
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hey squiggy... why tag the IFSD analysis as dumb?
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haha! You sure are sensitive. ::)
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haha! You sure are sensitive. ::)
calling out your incessant azzholey trollish dumb-tagging isn't being sensitive - it's a public service!
it's an information only post... no comments added. Why would you dumb tag such a post? Squiggy, explain yourself - yes?
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calling out your incessant azzholey trollish dumb-tagging isn't being sensitive - it's a public service!
it's an information only post... no comments added. Why would you dumb tag such a post? Squiggy, explain yourself - yes?
You’re the most sensitive troll I’ve ever seen on a forum... relax... just keep posting your propaganda... it’s OK.
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You’re the most sensitive troll I’ve ever seen on a forum... relax... just keep posting your propaganda... it’s OK.
Obviously you've never dealt with the likes of taxne, dogonporch, bc04, etc., over yonder. Now there's some bullsyte trolling propaganda for ya!
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You’re the most sensitive troll I’ve ever seen on a forum... relax... just keep posting your propaganda... it’s OK.
what propaganda? If you have a concern over... if you have difficulty with the IFSD analysis/assessment then step-up and explain yourself... what's your beef TROLL?
any TROLL, like you, can dumb-tag a straight, flat-out information only post!
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whaaa! NDP actively dropping attack type leaflets throughout GVRD... sample... from a whining Green Party supporter! ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/DIlk5Uj.png)
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on the Friday before the Thanksgiving long weekend... after all the Leaders’ debates have passed... and after thousands of Canadians have already cast their (advance) ballots, Scheer/CPC finally released their platform => which includes $53 billion in cuts, including $14 billion in hidden cuts.
There's nothing wrong with cuts in themselves, especially when the gov is running deficits with no end in sight. The hidden cuts is the alarming thing. Scheer has handled his costed platform like a coward. He's a coward like Trudeau, how ironic.
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338 says the exact same thing for the popular vote polling (tied around 32%) but gives Liberals more of an edge for seats projections.
Come time for the ballot box the Greens and NDP lost about 1-2% each to the Liberals in the actual election from what the latest polls had said due to strategic voting, so Liberals i think still have an edge.
MINORITY! MINORITY!
WE WANT A MINORITY!
NO MORE MAJORITY GOVERNMENTS EVER!! Lolol
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If it's minority Liberal who will resign as leader ?
If it's minority Conservative who will resign as leader ?
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resignations much more likely if someone gets a majority.
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Did Singh really say he wouldn't support a minority government ? Uh-oh. That means we may have back to back elections now...
well yes, he originally did say exactly that - but now, as of yesterday, Singh says he is willing to form a "progressive coalition" with the Libs, the Libs! Apparently, seeing the rising NDP {polling} fortunes cut into the Liberal {polling} seat projection lead has caused Mr. Singh to re-evaluate his attacks on the progressive Liberal Party - in order to, as Singh states, ensure a Scheer/CPC minority government does not occur - go figure!
word on the street has the the Scheer "brain trust" musing about a CPC-BQ coalition... to help prevent Alberta separation! ;D
Westminster inquiring minds: unless an election majority has been reached, the pre-election ruling party has the right to attempt to form government via coalition - Est-ce vrai?
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A Trudeau-Singh coalition government would suit me fine. Scheer would hopefully be out. Singh might get enough visibility to bring his party back to respectability next election and Trudeau and his team may get a re-set over what his strengths are.
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A Trudeau-Singh coalition government would suit me fine. Scheer would hopefully be out. Singh might get enough visibility to bring his party back to respectability next election and Trudeau and his team may get a re-set over what his strengths are.
I think it will be expensive.
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Trudeau and his team may get a re-set over what his strengths are.
What, exactly, are his strengths supposed to be, again?
-k
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What, exactly, are his strengths supposed to be, again?
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How about, for a start, he has a policy on abortion that doesn't change depending on who he's talking to. I happen to think women's right to choose is an important issue.
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How about, for a start, he has a policy on abortion that doesn't change depending on who he's talking to. I happen to think women's right to choose is an important issue.
Any leader the Liberals choose will be pro-choice. That's a very low bar to set. What does Trudeau bring to the table that somebody else in his party couldn't do just as well or better? If there's one outcome I want from this election, it's for the Liberals to choose somebody with some substance to run their ship instead of this vapid frat-boy.
-k
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Any leader the Liberals choose will be pro-choice. That's a very low bar to set. What does Trudeau bring to the table that somebody else in his party couldn't do just as well or better? If there's one outcome I want from this election, it's for the Liberals to choose somebody with some substance to run their ship instead of this vapid frat-boy.
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Well you could elect the truly vapid frat-boy/fake insurance salesman and find the country debating the abortion issue encore.
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Well you could elect the truly vapid frat-boy/fake insurance salesman and find the country debating the abortion issue encore.
Won't happen, it's only being debated now as an election wedge issue.
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What, exactly, are his strengths supposed to be, again?
-k
While people weren't looking, he actually has been navigating a 'middle way' for Canada... His "I am all things to all people" game is fake. But he really is a little bit of help to everyone, and in a federation like this that's what is needed.
I hate the fakeness, and the marketing, and the lack of vision but we could do much worse.
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While people weren't looking, he actually has been navigating a 'middle way' for Canada... His "I am all things to all people" game is fake. But he really is a little bit of help to everyone, and in a federation like this that's what is needed.
I hate the fakeness, and the marketing, and the lack of vision but we could do much worse.
He's a good figurehead.
And a minority brings exciting opportunities for real movement in business, environmental, social and electoral policies.
Please, no more fake majorities.
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While people weren't looking, he actually has been navigating a 'middle way' for Canada... His "I am all things to all people" game is fake. But he really is a little bit of help to everyone, and in a federation like this that's what is needed.
I hate the fakeness, and the marketing, and the lack of vision but we could do much worse.
By passing more debt on to future generations even though the economy has been expanding.
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By passing more debt on to future generations even though the economy has been expanding.
Cons are saying the same thing....
What we need are tax increases... GST, Carbon tax and a tax increase for the wealthy.
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Cons are saying the same thing....
What we need are tax increases... GST, Carbon tax and a tax increase for the wealthy.
That'll do it, take more money out of the economy.
Less than 3% of taxpayers have incomes of more than $200K and most of them are already being taxed at around 50%. If you think they can make much of a difference you are dreaming.
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That'll do it, take more money out of the economy.
Less than 3% of taxpayers have incomes of more than $200K and most of them are already being taxed at around 50%. If you think they can make much of a difference you are dreaming.
An increase in corporate tax, closing loopholes and a modest increase for middle income earners. “Taking money out of the economy” is a talking point, not an argument.
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While people weren't looking, he actually has been navigating a 'middle way' for Canada... His "I am all things to all people" game is fake. But he really is a little bit of help to everyone, and in a federation like this that's what is needed.
I hate the fakeness, and the marketing, and the lack of vision but we could do much worse.
I think he has vision, i just don't like it. I don't think he navigates a "middle way", he's the most leftist PM in Canada's history.
He desperately wants to be Canada's Barack Obama, he's not. Obama is a Harvard-educated lawyer, Trudeau smokes blunt.
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Cons are saying the same thing....
What we need are tax increases... GST, Carbon tax and a tax increase for the wealthy.
Cons say they will balance the budget in 5 years. Liberals do not and will not.
We don't need tax increases, we need to stop giving people more and more stuff with more borrowed money like Trudeau has done. If we raised taxes Trudeau would just give away more stuff with more borrowed money.
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An increase in corporate tax, closing loopholes and a modest increase for middle income earners. “Taking money out of the economy” is a talking point, not an argument.
Taking money out of the economy is an argument. Corporate taxes have to be competitive with other jurisdictions or companies just move. Money has no loyalty. The economy generates the revenue, government just redistributes it. The more government takes out, the less there is for growth. Middle income earners already pay the bulk of taxes and support the economy. They can't do both. While you can tax the over 200K earners more, they just don't represent enough of the population to make a real difference.
Parties need to stop bullshitting people by promising the world and start living within their means, instead we get this same debt to GDP garbage from all of them. Rack up the credit card and just make the minimum payments, then hand it to future generations telling them they can either keep making the interest payments on crap they didn't buy and get to use, or actually pay off what we bought and used. It's dishonest as hell.
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An increase in corporate tax, closing loopholes and a modest increase for middle income earners. “Taking money out of the economy” is a talking point, not an argument.
I wish the party that wins would close the tax loopholes, but i think we all know they won't, because they use them themselves.
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When did the last four letters of bullshit become verboten to use on their own?
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Well you could elect the truly vapid frat-boy/fake insurance salesman and find the country debating the abortion issue encore.
I think it's very telling that when challenged to explain what exactly it is that Justin brings to the table, all you can do is reach for more Scheermongering. Yes yes, Scheer will end abortions and round up gay people and put them in concentration camps, and eat newborn kittens alive, and so on. But what, exactly, does Justin bring to the table? Can you identify even one positive quality that PM Buckwheat has?
-k
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I think it's very telling that when challenged to explain what exactly it is that Justin brings to the table, all you can do is reach for more Scheermongering. Yes yes, Scheer will end abortions and round up gay people and put them in concentration camps, and eat newborn kittens alive, and so on. But what, exactly, does Justin bring to the table? Can you identify even one positive quality that PM Buckwheat has?
-k
So sad that you can take an issue like abortion and dredge up some nonsense word such as "scheermongering" to make a feeble attempt to bypass it. Oh well, you have squiddely on your side it seems. Carry on.
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JT's team's redeeming act was saving NAFTA.
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Interesting article from 18 months ago.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-market-debt-1.4590441
But JT says everything is just ducky and we can keep on borrowing with no end in sight.
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Less than 3% of taxpayers have incomes of more than $200K and most of them are already being taxed at around 50%. If you think they can make much of a difference you are dreaming.
It is not those making $200k that are the worst, it is those making $10 million that are paying far less than those making $200k. The only real measure is taxes actually paid, not some dreamed up before deduction rate that is completely meaningless.
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Cons say they will balance the budget in 5 years. Liberals do not and will not.
Cons always say one thing and do the exact opposite.
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JT's team's redeeming act was saving NAFTA.
And after ~15 years of various governments talking about initiating carbon pricing, JT's team actually got it done. Scheer claims he would remove it and replace it with an approach which would be much more ineffective.
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It is not those making $200k that are the worst, it is those making $10 million that are paying far less than those making $200k. The only real measure is taxes actually paid, not some dreamed up before deduction rate that is completely meaningless.
So what, they are so few even if you taxed them at 100% you still wouldn’t come close to erasing the deficit.
By all means close loopholes for the very rich but don’t think they are a cash cow that will allow you to spend what you want. No matter what JT and others tell you the numbers don’t work.
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Cons always say one thing and do the exact opposite.
CPC has ran surpluses, deficits, and balanced budgets. Trudeau gov has only ran deficits and forecasts only deficits.
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CPC has ran surpluses, deficits, and balanced budgets. Trudeau gov has only ran deficits and forecasts only deficits.
Maybe take a look at what Harper did during his reign to the reductions in debt/deficit that were handed to him by Chretien and Martin.
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CPC has ran surpluses, deficits, and balanced budgets. Trudeau gov has only ran deficits and forecasts only deficits.
Don't know how you can dumb that. JT has run deficits every year and is forecasting 20B+ deficits for the next five if he stays in power. God help us if we go into a recession.
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Maybe take a look at what Harper did during his reign to the reductions in debt/deficit that were handed to him by Chretien and Martin.
We have been through this many times. Harper had to deal with the 09 meltdown. He handed JT a balanced budget in a strong economy and the first thing JT did was start racking up 20B deficits after promising 10B for four years then a balanced budget. Now he is saying we will have 20B plus deficits for the next five years with no end in sight. We will never see a balanced budget again as long as he is in power because all he cares about is being able to make the interest payments, not actually paying for things.
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We have been through this many times. Harper had to deal with the 09 meltdown. He handed JT a balanced budget in a strong economy and the first thing JT did was start racking up 20B deficits after promising 10B for four years then a balanced budget. Now he is saying we will have 20B plus deficits for the next five years with no end in sight. We will never see a balanced budget again as long as he is in power because all he cares about is being able to make the interest payments, not actually paying for things.
Harper ran deficits throughout his time in office blowing the surplus he was handed, and then in a final hail mary attempt at a surplus he robbed the rainy day fund. The "dumb" comment relates to the focus on the current government while essentially trying to ignore the history of the CPC party.
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Harper ran deficits throughout his time in office blowing the surplus he was handed, and then in a final hail mary attempt at a surplus he robbed the rainy day fund. The "dumb" comment relates to the focus on the current government while essentially trying to ignore the history of the CPC party.
Anyone who claims conservatives have been more fiscally responsible than other parties in the past is drinking the koolaid and rewriting history.
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Harper ran deficits throughout his time in office blowing the surplus he was handed, and then in a final hail mary attempt at a surplus he robbed the rainy day fund. The "dumb" comment relates to the focus on the current government while essentially trying to ignore the history of the CPC party.
So using a "rainy day fund" to avoid borrowing more is bad, why have a rainy day fund at all? Just keep borrowing.
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At least there was a rainy day fund. Pray tell us all about JT's rainy day fund.
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So using a "rainy day fund" to avoid borrowing more is bad, why have a rainy day fund at all? Just keep borrowing.
The rainy day fund was created to be there for emergency purposes, not to try and gloss over poor fiscal responsibility and phony book keeping methods ala Harper.
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The rainy day fund was created to be there for emergency purposes, not to try and gloss over poor fiscal responsibility and phony book keeping methods ala Harper.
So tell us all about JT's rainy day fund.
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CPC has ran surpluses, deficits, and balanced budgets. Trudeau gov has only ran deficits and forecasts only deficits.
CPC never ran a surplus. Selling off revenue producing assets is not a surplus, that is a long term deficit hole they created.
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He handed JT a balanced budget in a strong economy
No, he sold off assets to pretend to have surplus, but the exact opposite is the result - a huge long-term deficit hole.
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So tell us all about JT's rainy day fund.
It's called the "prudential liquidity plan" and amounts to about $102 billion.
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No, he sold off assets to pretend to have surplus, but the exact opposite is the result - a huge long-term deficit hole.
Yep, "rainy day fund" and bargain basement prices for publicly held GM stocks.
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It's called the "prudential liquidity plan" and amounts to about $102 billion.
And seeing as we are running continuous deficits, where is it coming from? Oh right, borrowed money. Its purpose is to have a cushion for market disruptions that might prevent them from borrowing, so they are borrowing it in advance.
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And seeing as we are running continuous deficits, where is it coming from? Oh right, borrowed money. Its purpose is to have a cushion for market disruptions that might prevent them from borrowing, so they are borrowing it in advance.
Well maybe JT should follow in Harper's shoes and rob it to provide a surplus to try to swing swing voters. I don't see any plan to do that currently, and it is getting close to election day.
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Well maybe JT should follow in Harper's shoes and rob it to provide a surplus to try to swing swing voters. I don't see any plan to do that currently, and it is getting close to election day.
Rob what, it's just creative book keeping with borrowed money. Will it be invested in something that will give a greater return than the interest we are paying on it? If not, it is just another expense.
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Rob what, it's just creative book keeping with borrowed money. Will it be invested in something that will give a greater return than the interest we are paying on it? If not, it is just another expense.
Nope. It's liquid assets that don't become "borrowed" until you pull them out of the cookie jar. And that is supposed to be done only in a crisis situation, not simply to finally balance a budget, although apparently Harper deemed it that as election time loomed.
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Nope. It's liquid assets that don't become "borrowed" until you pull them out of the cookie jar. And that is supposed to be done only in a crisis situation, not simply to finally balance a budget, although apparently Harper deemed it that as election time loomed.
Good grief, we have been running continuous deficits, where do you think those "liquid assets" are coming from, some kind of money tree? We are borrowing in advance and salting it away so the government can meet its obligations in case some market disruption prevents it from borrowing in the future.
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Good grief, we have been running continuous deficits, where do you think those "liquid assets" are coming from, some kind of money tree? We are borrowing in advance and salting it away so the government can meet its obligations in case some market disruption prevents it from borrowing in the future.
The nest egg's contents are made up of about $2 billion worth of cash balances at the Bank of Canada; $10 billion in cash balances that are auctioned off to financial institutions for durations of typically less than one week so they generate returns; a callable demand deposit of $20 billion at the Bank of Canada; and about $70 billion of foreign reserve assets from Ottawa's exchange fund account.
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The nest egg's contents are made up of about $2 billion worth of cash balances at the Bank of Canada; $10 billion in cash balances that are auctioned off to financial institutions for durations of typically less than one week so they generate returns; a callable demand deposit of $20 billion at the Bank of Canada; and about $70 billion of foreign reserve assets from Ottawa's exchange fund account.
And where did those assets come from?
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And where did those assets come from?
Governments collect revenue from various sources as I'm sure you are aware.
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CPC never ran a surplus. Selling off revenue producing assets is not a surplus, that is a long term deficit hole they created.
CPC ran a surplus in fiscal years 2006-2007 and 2007-2008, as well as 1.9 billion for 2014-2015.
I won't deny all sorts of shady political maneuvering to get the surplus in 2015. Harper put on a hiring freeze of non-vital public sector employees in mid-2014, and gov departments came back with record levels of unspent public money in 2014-2015.
Trudeau has had 19 billion dollar deficits every year since elected. You have to go back to 2011-2012 for when the Harper gov ran deficits that high and Trudeau has governed in a better economy with more revenue and record unemployment, meaning more gov tax revenues and less EI payouts than Harper had. Trudeau has 25% more tax revenue to work with than Harper had in 2013 (~265 billion vs 330 billion) because of the better economy, yet Trudeau is still running a higher deficit.
Trudeau doesn't even have NATO missions like Afghanistan or Libya to worry about paying for.
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No, he sold off assets to pretend to have surplus, but the exact opposite is the result - a huge long-term deficit hole.
You think Trudeau's long-term deficits are due to Harper selling off the gov's remaining shares in GM?
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Harper ran deficits throughout his time in office blowing the surplus he was handed, and then in a final hail mary attempt at a surplus he robbed the rainy day fund. The "dumb" comment relates to the focus on the current government while essentially trying to ignore the history of the CPC party.
The fact remains that the CPC has ran 3 different years of surpluses both before and after the recession while the Trudeau gov has ran large deficits every year and will do the same for the next 5 years if elected as they have themselves stated.
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Anyone who claims conservatives have been more fiscally responsible than other parties in the past is drinking the koolaid and rewriting history.
PC goverments yes, CPC no.
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CPC ran a surplus in fiscal years 2006-2007 and 2007-2008, as well as 1.9 billion for 2014-2015.
I won't deny all sorts of shady political maneuvering to get the surplus in 2015. Harper put on a hiring freeze of non-vital public sector employees in mid-2014, and gov departments came back with record levels of unspent public money in 2014-2015.
Trudeau has had 19 billion dollar deficits every year since elected. You have to go back to 2011-2012 for when the Harper gov ran deficits that high and Trudeau has governed in a better economy with more revenue and record unemployment, meaning more gov tax revenues and less EI payouts than Harper had. Trudeau has 25% more tax revenue to work with than Harper had in 2013 (~265 billion vs 330 billion) because of the better economy, yet Trudeau is still running a higher deficit.
Trudeau doesn't even have NATO missions like Afghanistan or Libya to worry about paying for.
Wow that Afghan mission must be a good excuse for deficits. We had at LEAST 100 people there. Oh the cost!
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The nest egg's contents are made up of about $2 billion worth of cash balances at the Bank of Canada; $10 billion in cash balances that are auctioned off to financial institutions for durations of typically less than one week so they generate returns; a callable demand deposit of $20 billion at the Bank of Canada; and about $70 billion of foreign reserve assets from Ottawa's exchange fund account.
That's a direct quote you didn't attribute to the source: https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/prudential-liquidity-why-canada-s-hoarding-a-102-billion-rainy-day-fund-1.3840386
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Governments collect revenue from various sources as I'm sure you are aware.
Sure and this one continuously borrows it.
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Wow that Afghan mission must be a good excuse for deficits. We had at LEAST 100 people there. Oh the cost!
Seriously? Are you that clueless about our involvement in Afghanistan between 2006 and 2012.
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Wow that Afghan mission must be a good excuse for deficits. We had at LEAST 100 people there. Oh the cost!
Why does Trudeau have 25% more tax revenue to spend than Harper had in his last few years in office but Trudeau still has higher deficits? 25% = about 65 billion more in revenue to spend and he still can't get close to balancing.
Even ignoring the admittedly shady 2015 accounting for election bragging, Harper ran a 5.2 billion deficit in 2013-2014 and 18.4b deficit in 2012-2013, both deficits lower being than what Trudeau has been running up since elected, and in a harsher economy too.
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Seriously? Are you that clueless about our involvement in Afghanistan between 2006 and 2012.
No I'm not, because I was there.
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No I'm not, because I was there.
Did the Harper gov pay for some/all of your salary?
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Why does Trudeau have 25% more tax revenue to spend than Harper had in his last few years in office but Trudeau still has higher deficits? 25% = about 65 billion more in revenue to spend and he still can't get close to balancing.
Even ignoring the admittedly shady 2015 accounting for election bragging, Harper ran a 5.2 billion deficit in 2013-2014 and 18.4b deficit in 2012-2013, both deficits lower being than what Trudeau has been running up since elected, and in a harsher economy too.
I will admit that JT has not fully lived up to his campaign promises to use the deficit to focus on infrastructure renewal that is blatantly, obviously needed, but he has hit about 65% of that platform. Harper managed to ignore the issue for most of his time in office.
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CPC ran a surplus in fiscal years 2006-2007 and 2007-2008,
Yes, inheriting a $14 billion surplus allows one to look good for a couple of years. The GST cut was only 1% initially and late into the first year, and the corporate tax blunder didn't happen until I believe late 2007.
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Did the Harper gov pay for some/all of your salary?
Nope, not a nickel. I paid him a few through my income taxes.
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No I'm not, because I was there.
Then where did that idiotic statement come from?
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I will admit that JT has not fully lived up to his campaign promises to use the deficit to focus on infrastructure renewal that is blatantly, obviously needed, but he has hit about 65% of that platform. Harper managed to ignore the issue for most of his time in office.
He hasn't lived up to any of his fiscal promises.
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Nope, not a nickel. I paid him a few through my income taxes.
Who were you working for and were they under contract to the government?
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Yes, inheriting a $14 billion surplus allows one to look good for a couple of years. The GST cut was only 1% initially and late into the first year, and the corporate tax blunder didn't happen until I believe late 2007.
In their last 3 fiscal years (2013-15) the Harper gov ran lower deficits than Trudeau has every year since in office, so that's not an excuse for Trudeau's deficits.
Also, as a majority Trudeau's gov could have reversed any tax policies they disagreed with to better balance their books or introduced tax measures of their own. They haven't, so they only have themselves to blame. Not to mention their tax revenues are 25% higher than Harper's anyways.
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Who were you working for and were they under contract to the government?
The US government.
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In their last 3 fiscal years (2013-15) the Harper gov ran lower deficits than Trudeau has every year since in office
Yes, gutting services does decrease spending. It also destroys the fabric of the nation. I believe the average Trudeau deficit is still lower than the average Harper deficit over their terms, and that includes the golden surpluses he inherited.
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Yes, gutting services does decrease spending. It also destroys the fabric of the nation. I believe the average Trudeau deficit is still lower than the average Harper deficit over their terms, and that includes the golden surpluses he inherited.
JT has only been in power four years and he has a majority and an expanding economy. No excuses. Harper was PM for 9 years and only had a majority once in 2011, after which the deficits declined every year.
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Yes, gutting services does decrease spending. It also destroys the fabric of the nation.
And yet Paul Martin is a Liberal hero for doing just that.
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JT has only been in power four years and he has a majority and an expanding economy. No excuses. Harper was PM for 9 years and only had a majority once in 2011, after which the deficits declined every year.
Trudeau inherited the low corporate tax revenue from Harper. Yes I blame him for not fixing it, but the blame goes 90% to Harper for creating the problem in the first place.
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I think he has vision, i just don't like it. I don't think he navigates a "middle way", he's the most leftist PM in Canada's history.
Whaaaaa ?
Trudeau Sr. was way more leftist. This boy bought a pipeline and shut down PR - which would lock in leftist governments for perpetuity.
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By passing more debt on to future generations even though the economy has been expanding.
Not really THAT much, but ok you aren't wrong.
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Trudeau inherited the low corporate tax revenue from Harper. Yes I blame him for not fixing it, but the blame goes 90% to Harper for creating the problem in the first place.
Unfortunately you can't fix everything with a tax. This government will overspend regardless of how much income it has. JT doesn't need to run continual deficits, it's just the way the thinks..
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... he's the most leftist PM in Canada's history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_public_debt
Here is something I didn't know - our real debt per capita is 1/2 what is was in 1997 !
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Didn't Martin LOWER the corporate tax ?! Now we're going back...
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Not really THAT much, but ok you aren't wrong.
So how much growth do you need before you stop borrowing? How much more do you need before you actually pay for something and not just the interest on what you borrowed?
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Didn't Martin LOWER the corporate tax ?! Now we're going back...
Yup.
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So how much growth do you need before you stop borrowing? How much more do you need before you actually pay for something and not just the interest on what you borrowed?
I think it's ok to borrow on Infrastructure as that should be paid over the lifespan of use. Let's see now how much I-spending do we do...
Google Google Google
https://www.on-sitemag.com/features/infrastructure-report-2018-canadas-spending-plan-starts-hitting-its-stride/
It aligns... but not sure of the lifespan of these items...
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I think it's ok to borrow on Infrastructure as that should be paid over the lifespan of use. Let's see now how much I-spending do we do...
Google Google Google
https://www.on-sitemag.com/features/infrastructure-report-2018-canadas-spending-plan-starts-hitting-its-stride/
It aligns... but not sure of the lifespan of these items...
I’m not against borrowing for infrastructure, it would be difficult to build major projects without it but have a schedule to pay off the principal. People who go on about debt to GDP as a justification for borrowing don’t give me confidence that will ever happen.
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Trudeau inherited the low corporate tax revenue from Harper. Yes I blame him for not fixing it, but the blame goes 90% to Harper for creating the problem in the first place.
Gov tax revenue has gone up 25% since Harper's last few years because of the much strengthened economy. Trudeau gov doesn't have a revenue problem.
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Not really THAT much, but ok you aren't wrong.
19 billion deficit per year by Trudeau gov divided by 19 million working Canadians = $1000 worth of new debt every year owed by every working Canadian to pay back (plus interest). That's $4000 so far (not including interest).
Would have been easier to just stuff a $1000 dollar bill in my pocket every year, he'd have more votes lol.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_public_debt
Here is something I didn't know - our real debt per capita is 1/2 what is was in 1997 !
Do you mean debt as % of gdp?
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Gov tax revenue has gone up 25% since Harper's last few years because of the much strengthened economy. Trudeau gov doesn't have a revenue problem.
Gov. spending has gone up since JT is no longer ignoring infrastructure needs as Harper did to try and make his #'s look better.
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Do you mean debt as % of gdp?
I think the graph is actual DEBT.
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I’m not against borrowing for infrastructure, it would be difficult to build major projects without it but have a schedule to pay off the principal. People who go on about debt to GDP as a justification for borrowing don’t give me confidence that will ever happen.
If you are constantly building and refurbishing infrastructure - which you should - and amortizing it over its lifetime then wouldn't there always be an intentional deficit ?
We're getting into some policy economics here so I'd like someone with confident knowledge of the subject matter to help us out - not a gut-level or intuitive political take...
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If you are constantly building and refurbishing infrastructure - which you should - and amortizing it over its lifetime then wouldn't there always be an intentional deficit ?
We're getting into some policy economics here so I'd like someone with confident knowledge of the subject matter to help us out - not a gut-level or intuitive political take...
There might be a continuing deficit but if things were being paid off, the debt should remain at least stable because as you were accumulating new debt, we would be paying off old debt. We aren't.
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shut down PR - which would lock in leftist governments for perpetuity.
How so, are you saying the majority are leftists, and the only reason that we ever have right wing governments is the built in bias of the status quo?
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There might be a continuing deficit but if things were being paid off, the debt should remain at least stable because as you were accumulating new debt, we would be paying off old debt. We aren't.
continuing deficit means increased debt, no ?
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How so, are you saying the majority are leftists, and the only reason that we ever have right wing governments is the built in bias of the status quo?
Kind of, yes. 2/3 regularly vote Liberal and NDP.
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Kind of, yes. 2/3 regularly vote Liberal and NDP.
So why shouldn’t the will of the electorate be better reflected in the House of Commons?
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How so, are you saying the majority are leftists, and the only reason that we ever have right wing governments is the built in bias of the status quo?
If you add up the votes of Liberal Party, NDP, Greens, Bloc it would always add up to over 50% (majority) of the total. CPC would never get over 50% of the popular vote.
No single party is likely to get over 50% any time soon so it would lock us into minority or coalition governments too. There's a chance though that say the CPC could get the most votes and teamed up with a leftwing party ie: NDP to form a coalition gov.
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CPC would never get over 50% of the popular vote.
Why not?
And why should they be allowed to govern with a majority if they can’t?
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If you add up the votes of Liberal Party, NDP, Greens, Bloc it would always add up to over 50% (majority) of the total. CPC would never get over 50% of the popular vote.
No single party is likely to get over 50% any time soon so it would lock us into minority or coalition governments too. There's a chance though that say the CPC could get the most votes and teamed up with a leftwing party ie: NDP to form a coalition gov.
Has any party got more than 50% in the last 50 years? I don’t think so.
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Has any party got more than 50% in the last 50 years? I don’t think so.
1984 - PCs got 50.1%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Canadian_federal_election#Vote_and_seat_summaries
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1984 - PCs got 50.1%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Canadian_federal_election#Vote_and_seat_summaries
50.03%. So it is pretty darn rare and only by a whisker.
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Election results depend more on where the votes are than how many a party gets in the popular vote. A few years ago the BC liberals had a majority of the popular vote but wound up with fewer seats than the NDP.
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Election results depend more on where the votes are than how many a party gets in the popular vote. A few years ago the BC liberals had a majority of the popular vote but wound up with fewer seats than the NDP.
Of course it does... and with a proportional system, it still would, but not to the degree to which it does now. It would be a better reflection of the will of the electorate overall.
50.03%. So it is pretty darn rare and only by a whisker.
I read it wrong... still... that was a landslide for the PCs.
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So why shouldn’t the will of the electorate be better reflected in the House of Commons?
Because having 2/3 in the house of commons, means having 100% of the power.
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Because having 2/3 in the house of commons, means having 100% of the power.
Ya but that's better than 38% of HoC meaning 100% of the power.
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Election results depend more on where the votes are than how many a party gets in the popular vote. A few years ago the BC liberals had a majority of the popular vote but wound up with fewer seats than the NDP.
And that's why Proportional Representation is necessary - so government actually represents the votes of the people.
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Because having 2/3 in the house of commons, means having 100% of the power.
So it’s better that 40% gets 100% of the power, rather than the other 2/3??? That makes no sense whatsoever.
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So it’s better that 40% gets 100% of the power, rather than the other 2/3??? That makes no sense whatsoever.
2/3 gets 100% of the power 2/3 of the time
1/3 gets 100% of the power 1/3 of the time
.......
Under PR, 2/3 gets 100% of the power 100% of the time
And let me be clear - this dictatorship may actually be necessary in the face of populism, and foreign info wars. Like martial law.
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Anyway, it seems Singh seems more relatable than any of the leaders, and how he came across in the debate helped him. Indeed he has a more natural and believable persona than the other main guys.
And... CBC pointed out how he handed the Quebec racist dude who told him to cut off his turban was widely admired. Hard not to agree. His response was more Canadian than any Doug Ford could ever muster.
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Anyone who claims conservatives have been more fiscally responsible than other parties in the past is drinking the koolaid and rewriting history.
Hell, I even posted the exact figures, showing the Conservatives have a worse track record in terms of budget surplus/deficits as a proportion of GDP.
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(https://i.imgur.com/8fySs8b.png)
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Hell, I even posted the exact figures, showing the Conservatives have a worse track record in terms of budget surplus/deficits as a proportion of GDP.
In the last four years of his mandate (the only four he had a majority), Harper added 48B to the debt. In the first four of JT's mandate, he will have added 71B and is projecting deficits of over 20B per year for the next five years. That will be around 170B he will add to the federal debt. That's with no wars or recessions to deal with, it could get worse.
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.......
Under PR, 2/3 gets 100% of the power 100% of the time
Not necessarily, a small party in a minority government can have much more power than it's number of seats justifies. There are pro's and con's to both systems. Some countries manage to make some sort of PR work quite well, in others it is a disaster and they can't get anything done.
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2/3 gets 100% of the power 2/3 of the time
1/3 gets 100% of the power 1/3 of the time
.......
Under PR, 2/3 gets 100% of the power 100% of the time
Only when you have become drunk on the kool-aid that there is a binary choice. That is what the entrenched elites want you to believe so that 0.01% have 100% of the power 100% of the time as they own both of those choices.
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Only when you have become drunk on the kool-aid that there is a binary choice. That is what the entrenched elites want you to believe so that 0.01% have 100% of the power 100% of the time as they own both of those choices.
This is the equivalent of flipping the table... why are you even talking on here if there is no choice ?
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So... we're all sick of this election right ?
Do you agree with Trudeau that the Conservatives have run the dirtiest campaign in modern memory. Certainly they have benefited from dirty politics but can we blame Scheer ?
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So... we're all sick of this election right ?
Do you agree with Trudeau that the Conservatives have run the dirtiest campaign in modern memory. Certainly they have benefited from dirty politics but can we blame Scheer ?
I think it is a case of the pot calling the kettle, they are both guilty.
We spent the past month in Europe. Sure glad we only had to put up with a week of this crap.
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Did anyone falsely accuse Scheer of statutory **** ? Did they publish an opinion piece in a major newspaper defending the right to spread false rumours ?
Scheer had it much easier than Trudeau.
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Did anyone falsely accuse Scheer of statutory **** ? Did they publish an opinion piece in a major newspaper defending the right to spread false rumours ?
Scheer had it much easier than Trudeau.
I didn't even hear about this... is there a link? I thought it was a pretty clean campaign. Fairly factual.
I do think the media didn't spend enough time questioning Scheer's support for people and things that are pretty extreme right (other than abortion and gay rights, which he was questioned on)... his love of Brexit, for example. His Israel policy of moving the capital... stuff like that.
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I thought it was a pretty clean campaign. Fairly factual.
How does we request new rating icons? I want one for naive.
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How does we request new rating icons? I want one for naive.
So what was dirty about it? Be specific.
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I don't think it has been dirty. There has been a lot of BS on all sides but dirty is going after people and their families personally.
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I don't think it has been dirty. There has been a lot of BS on all sides but dirty is going after people and their families personally.
Apparently, you're just naive.
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So what was dirty about it? Be specific.
Spreading rumours that Trudeau slept with a student, and asking questions that imply that as well as an editorial defending the spreading of rumours...
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Spreading rumours that Trudeau slept with a student, and asking questions that imply that as well as an editorial defending the spreading of rumours...
How do you ask a question and then control what other people infer from that question because your scenario holds the person asking the question responsible for the thoughts and inferences made from asking the question. The whole point of asking a question is to put down a rumour, i.e., to substantiate it as true or false. In your world should we never say anything because it might be inferred incorrectly by someone? How far do you go with that MH? Sounds to me like you want to prevent the press and media from doing their job which is to ask questions especially when they go to the character of a public figure who demands others behave in a manner he himself does not. The press has an obligation to show when a politician does not practice what he preaches, A politician is a public figure. They do not get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to preaching to others. They must be prepared to follow the standard they demand of others and that MH is where many have seen Trudeau has failed.
That said, are any of the leaders without double standards....no..but we have now have to decide which of the people running I suppose is the least offensive of them all. That is what it comes down to in politics these days. I think our moral standards, i.e., what we expect of our leaders has slipped way to low and this has enabled Trudeau and Trump for example to be able to get away with what they do. Me personally I think the major moral slide started with Nixon. It seems post Nixon we do not expect democratic leaders anymore to be even remotely honest.
Is it naïve to expect a specific moral standard? I myself believe a woman must decide as the final say, on what she does with her body. That said I totally respect Sheer and anyone else who sees a higher moral imperative. I deeply respect their disagreement. I think the way Trudeau has tried to attack Sheer personally over this as if Trudeau has a monopoly on the moral high ground on that issue and speaks for women, rubs me the wrong way.
Now I concede I am a man and that is a very big thing because ultimately its a decision women and their bodies decide not me. That to me is an issue where Trudeau has tried to make up for his dismissive behavior with women by trying to restore his feminist high ground and I don't like it.
I also do not like how Singh plays up his ethnicity to get votes while at the same time criticizing others for making ethnicity an issue. When its convenient to him he trots out his identity. He shows me by doing that a low morale standard.
With Sheer, I did not buy his no one asked me if I was an American citizen response and his being the House Speaker to pose that the Prime Minister of the day can not form a coalition to stay in government.
The only one who really has not said anything I question morally is May of the Greens but I consider her platform simply the same as the NDP so unrealistic. Bernier I consider a nasty angry man who is running simply out of spite and the Bloc Quebecois are out and out two faced **** receiving money and benefits from a system they claim to not believe in. None of them should be accepting any salary or benefits.
So morally only May has passed by subjective sniff test but I am holding my breath and voting Sheer for economic reasons. We are headed for a recession and high spending will be disasterous. That said I could live with a Green Tory coalition which would never happen.
Hey much love to the Liberal patoots on this forum and their black/brown face petunia eater.
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How often does the press ask about vicious rumours?
Never... Until now.
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but I am holding my breath and voting Sheer for economic reasons
Fool me one shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. If the Conservatives keep fooling you over and over again, then you are beyond help.
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Fool me one shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. If the Conservatives keep fooling you over and over again, then you are beyond help.
Well Trudeau sure fooled a lot of people when it came to fiscal responsibility. Apparently, still is.
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What the heck I will go out on a limb and declare the Liberals will win a majority. You heard it here first. Now if I could just decide who to vote for...
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Spreading rumours that Trudeau slept with a student, and asking questions that imply that as well as an editorial defending the spreading of rumours...
you're short on details again....
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you're short on details again....
I assume this reference is to the West Point Grey issue for which there never was, nor ever has been any evidence to support the fake story.
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I assume this reference is to the West Point Grey issue for which there never was, nor ever has been any evidence to support the fake story.
I googled it.... and found practically nothing about it... I don't think it got around all that much.
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2019/10/10/news/fake-justin-trudeau-sex-scandal-went-viral-canadas-election-integrity-law-cant-stop
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I googled it.... and found practically nothing about it... I don't think it got around all that much.
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2019/10/10/news/fake-justin-trudeau-sex-scandal-went-viral-canadas-election-integrity-law-cant-stop
It's all getting pretty disgusting. If parities don't fact check this stuff and refrain from using it, they will have nothing to complain about when they are on the receiving end. Politics has never been nice but the internet is turning it into a sewer.
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It's all getting pretty disgusting. If parities don't fact check this stuff and refrain from using it, they will have nothing to complain about when they are on the receiving end. Politics has never been nice but the internet is turning it into a sewer.
I don't think the Cons were the ones spreading it, were they?
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I don't think the Cons were the ones spreading it, were they?
They may not have spread it but they weren't above using it by questioning the reason Trudeau left the school. Not disowning this kind of thing will just make it worse for everyone.
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They may not have spread it but they weren't above using it by questioning the reason Trudeau left the school. Not disowning this kind of thing will just make it worse for everyone.
Do Con supporters care about honesty and integrity of elections? A lot of them are rabidly anti-Trudeau.
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Do Con supporters care about honesty and integrity of elections? A lot of them are rabidly anti-Trudeau.
And a lot of Liberals are still rabidly anti Harper, they resemble Republicans still going on about Hillary.
Kim Campbell was quoted (she says misquoted) as saying elections are no time to discuss serious issues and she was pilloried for it. Every election our political parties go to greater lengths to prove just how true that statement was.
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They may not have spread it but they weren't above using it by questioning the reason Trudeau left the school. Not disowning this kind of thing will just make it worse for everyone.
Scheer just smells like desperation, and voters can sense it, and don't like it. If he was a better candidate I think he'd pretty much have the election in the bag, people can't stand Trudeau, but they put forward a candidate that's not easy to like too, it was the CPC's election to lose and they may lose it.
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Still looks like a weak Liberal minority...
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Scheer just smells like desperation, and voters can sense it, and don't like it. If he was a better candidate I think he'd pretty much have the election in the bag, people can't stand Trudeau, but they put forward a candidate that's not easy to like too, it was the CPC's election to lose and they may lose it.
Since Trudeau is looking for a second term it's actually his election to lose. Luckily it doesn't look like he will, especially when I listen to Scheer's latest bafflegab he trotted out when questioned about his party enlisting Daisy Group to try and discredit Bernier. Hard to get a straight answer out of this guy over just about any issue on the table.
https://election.ctvnews.ca/scheer-won-t-say-if-conservatives-hired-consultant-to-destroy-people-s-party-1.4646062
The Conservative leader, whom polls suggest is locked in a neck-and-neck duel with Liberal rival Justin Trudeau, refused to confirm, deny or even acknowledge the report during a news conference in Toronto that featured few questions about anything else.
"We don't offer comments on contracts that may or may not exist on vendors we may or may not have a relationship with," he said, repeatedly.
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Scheer just smells like desperation, and voters can sense it, and don't like it. If he was a better candidate I think he'd pretty much have the election in the bag, people can't stand Trudeau, but they put forward a candidate that's not easy to like too, it was the CPC's election to lose and they may lose it.
Yes it was and they might.
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Since Trudeau is looking for a second term it's actually his election to lose. Luckily it doesn't look like he will, especially when I listen to Scheer's latest bafflegab he trotted out when questioned about his party enlisting Daisy Group to try and discredit Bernier. Hard to get a straight answer out of this guy over just about any issue on the table.
https://election.ctvnews.ca/scheer-won-t-say-if-conservatives-hired-consultant-to-destroy-people-s-party-1.4646062
The Conservative leader, whom polls suggest is locked in a neck-and-neck duel with Liberal rival Justin Trudeau, refused to confirm, deny or even acknowledge the report during a news conference in Toronto that featured few questions about anything else.
"We don't offer comments on contracts that may or may not exist on vendors we may or may not have a relationship with," he said, repeatedly.
We'll see, you never know how these things will resonate at the ballot box.
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And a lot of Liberals are still rabidly anti Harper, they resemble Republicans still going on about Hillary.
Harper was PM, Hillary never was President. I guess facts are hard for you.
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We'll see, you never know how these things will resonate at the ballot box.
Hopefully it will be actual commitments to policies that resonate at the ballot box, not endless subterfuges ala Scheer.
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Harper was PM, Hillary never was President. I guess facts are hard for you.
Harper isn't running, neither is Hillary. Keep up.
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Hopefully it will be actual commitments to policies that resonate at the ballot box, not endless subterfuges ala Scheer.
That must be why you brought it up.
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We'll see, you never know how these things will resonate at the ballot box.
That won’t resonate. They all hire consultants to dig up dirt.
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This was me, a year and a half ago:
I read an article yesterday arguing that the best thing Justin Trudeau has going for him right now is that Jagmeet Singh is proving to be such a dud. This should reduce the vote-splitting of voters of the "NOT Conservative" view.
I posted a number of similar messages, about Singh sending the NDP "rocketing into oblivion" and so on. And I should eat some crow here.
I think Singh has done a strong job since finally arriving in Parliament, and has especially stood out since the election campaign started. While both Trudeau and Scheer have low approval and high disapproval ratings in polling, Singh's polling has improved steadily during the campaign. He is doing a good job. He is pulling "NOT Conservative" votes away from the Liberals, and "NOT Trudeau" votes away from the Conservatives. It is looking like a strong potential for a minority government, and Singh could end up holding the balance of power.
I just don't like most of the Conservatives' policies, but I can't vote Liberal while Trudeau is their leader. I live in a riding where a Conservative candidate is almost certain to be elected, so my vote isn't important anyway, but I've decided for the second election in a row to vote for my local NDP candidate.
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Harper isn't running, neither is Hillary. Keep up.
Neither is Hunter
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That must be why you brought it up.
I bring it up in case anybody has missed what Scheer has been doing.
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That won’t resonate. They all hire consultants to dig up dirt.
This "explosive revelation" that the CPC hired Warren Kinsella's consulting group to do opposition research on PPC candidates is quite ridiculous.
Is anybody under the impression that other parties aren't also doing opposition research and hiring consultants and analysts and PR people?
And why is it a bad thing that Kinsella's group went digging through the histories of PPC candidates for racism and homophobia? Isn't that actually kind of a good thing? Kinsella has a history of standing against hate (like the recent "Your Ward News") trial. I can imagine this was a contract he was happy to carry out.
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This "explosive revelation" that the CPC hired Warren Kinsella's consulting group to do opposition research on PPC candidates is quite ridiculous.
Is anybody under the impression that other parties aren't also doing opposition research and hiring consultants and analysts and PR people?
And why is it a bad thing that Kinsella's group went digging through the histories of PPC candidates for racism and homophobia? Isn't that actually kind of a good thing? Kinsella has a history of standing against hate (like the recent "Your Ward News") trial. I can imagine this was a contract he was happy to carry out.
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My thoughts exactly... I want to know about all the racist/bigoted nonsense that PPC candidates have done. Thanks Scheer.
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This "explosive revelation" that the CPC hired Warren Kinsella's consulting group to do opposition research on PPC candidates is quite ridiculous.
No, but to be a coward and [implicitly] deny it exposes Scheer for the weakling he is.
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Scheer has been saying that there's "a modern convention" in Canadian politics that if Trudeau doesn't win the most seats in the election, he should resign.
Scheer is only half right. It's not a convention, but Trudeau should resign.
With a reasonably healthy economy and low unemployment rate, this election should have been a cakewalk for the Liberals. Instead, they find themselves in precarious territory, with the possibility of a minority and the possibility of losing the total seat lead and/or the popular vote. Why? It's not because Scheer or Singh are political wunderkind. It's not because tough times are facing the nation. Why are the Liberals in such a close fight in what should have been a comfortable re-election campaign?
Most of the fingers should be pointing at Trudeau himself. His own personal brand is the biggest negative the Liberals are fighting with right now. Starting with the Aga Khan vacation and the India cosplay tour, through the SNC-Lavalin scandal, right through to the blackface scandal, and everything in between, people are getting tired of his act. Four years ago he was a big positive for the party, but now he's it's biggest problem. He should get step aside.
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No, but to be a coward and [implicitly] deny it exposes Scheer for the weakling he is.
Are other parties talking about which consultants and analysts they hire? When did this become standard? Why are we talking about CPC hiring Kinsella in the first place? Who thought it was news?
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Are other parties talking about which consultants and analysts they hire? When did this become standard? Why are we talking about CPC hiring Kinsella in the first place? Who thought it was news?
When asked a strait question, why waffle?
Why are the Liberals in such a close fight in what should have been a comfortable re-election campaign?
I would say that the slanderous campaigns waged against them by the right wing (as has historically been the case) are working. The only reason right wing government are formed is because they slander to opposition. That is true here and south of the border.
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Are other parties talking about which consultants and analysts they hire? When did this become standard? Why are we talking about CPC hiring Kinsella in the first place? Who thought it was news?
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Why does Scheer continiously duck and dodge questions about that, as well as most other issues then? If you prefer that kind of bafflegab you can vote for it tomorrow.
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Why does Scheer continiously duck and dodge questions about that, as well as most other issues then? If you prefer that kind of bafflegab you can vote for it tomorrow.
How about total transparency then, all parties must disclose what analysts they hire.
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How about total transparency then, all parties must disclose what analysts they hire.
I have no problem with that, but still when asked a direct question he refused to answer. Ask Trudeau, Singh, and May the same question if you like. I don't want to wait until some report is released long after the election to find out the answer.
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When asked a strait question, why waffle?
He said they won't comment on their contracts. If he were refusing to give an answer to real questions about real issues (like our PM) that would be one thing, but refusing to answer questions about non-issues doesn't seem troubling to me.
Why does Scheer continiously duck and dodge questions about that, as well as most other issues then? If you prefer that kind of bafflegab you can vote for it tomorrow.
Hilarious, coming from a Trudeau booster. After watching PM Buckwheat stand there with a glassy look and repeat the same 3 non-answers to every question for half an hour during his blackface press-conference, I can't imagine a worse example of being honest and direct in response to questions than our pathetic Prime Minister.
And you seem to be under the impression that I'm a Scheer supporter. I'm not. I said earlier that I'm voting NDP. I just think the attempt to turn such a non-issue into a scandal is a telling comment on how desperate the Liberals are.
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I have no problem with that, but still when asked a direct question he refused to answer. Ask Trudeau, Singh, and May the same question if you like. I don't want to wait until some report is released long after the election to find out the answer.
First off, what report? And second, why does it matter? Further, the CPC dealings with the Daisy Group were prior to the election campaign anyway, so they're not actually covered under election campaign law. Much like the plethora of third-party-funded anti-Scheer advertising that aired during the Raptors' NBA championship run, it falls outside of election spending rules. So what's the issue? You have some concern about Scheer hiring a consultant? You think that Warren Kinsella is some bad guy? You feel that Scheer hiring Kinsella is something that would change your vote? I mean, you were never voting for Scheer in the first case... why do you think him hiring Kinsella is important?
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I would say that the slanderous campaigns waged against them by the right wing (as has historically been the case) are working. The only reason right wing government are formed is because they slander to opposition. That is true here and south of the border.
So... it's not SNC-Lavalin, or a number of failed promises, or two ethics violations, or a blackface scandal, or his cosplay adventure in India that have turned voters against Trudeau... it's some allegations in the "Buffalo Chronicle" that most mainstream media have completely ignored?
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How about total transparency then, all parties must disclose what analysts they hire.
I also would have no problem with that. Trouble is Scheer flails on most other issues as well, abortion, climate change, and then he has flogged blatant lies as to Trudeau's policies as a last ditch effort to hoodwink people into believing him to get their vote. Luckily we are not all so gullible.
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I have no problem with that, but still when asked a direct question he refused to answer. Ask Trudeau, Singh, and May the same question if you like. I don't want to wait until some report is released long after the election to find out the answer.
Obvious question. Why should he answer?
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why do you think him hiring Kinsella is important?
As I said before, I personally don't. The fact that Scheer is incapable of answering a direct question is the problem.
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As I said before, I personally don't. The fact that Scheer is incapable of answering a direct question is the problem.
Kinsella is a Liberal, he has been a Liberal strategist and involved in several leadership campaigns, he has run for a seat as a Liberal, he has been a chief of staff for Liberal cabinet ministers. What's your problem with him looking into the PPC?
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Kinsella is a Liberal, he has been a Liberal strategist and involved in several leadership campaigns, he has run for a seat as a Liberal, he has been a chief of staff for Liberal cabinet ministers. What's your problem with him looking into the PPC?
What's Scheer's problem with admitting he did so?
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Most of the fingers should be pointing at Trudeau himself. His own personal brand is the biggest negative the Liberals are fighting with right now. Starting with the Aga Khan vacation and the India cosplay tour,
Yes, I'm sure you'll be after Prince William for the same reason soon enough. The biggest negative for Trudeau is that the liberal world order is crumbling and that he's the main target right now of Russian and alt right trolls. How some of you miss that is beyond me. Scheer is being supported by these far right and destabilizing ideologies. How anyone with any knowledge can vote for the Conservatives in view of thins frightens me for our Country.
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What's Scheer's problem with admitting he did so?
Again, why should he set a precedent? Should the Conservatives be the only ones who have disclose who they hire as advisors?
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No, but to be a coward and [implicitly] deny it exposes Scheer for the weakling he is.
So when Trudeau doesn’t answer questions (which is often) you think he’s a coward and a weakling?
(BTW, if you don’t answer this you’re a cowardly weakling). :P
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There's a second thing working against Justin Trudeau - men and women who think they know how men 'should' act don't like him. He cries, he's sensitive, and he doesn't do all of the normal things that men do.
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Again, why should he set a precedent? Should the Conservatives be the only ones who have disclose who they hire as advisors?
Nope. I guess in this case the news got out as to why Scheer hired this particular "advisor".
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This was me, a year and a half ago:
I posted a number of similar messages, about Singh sending the NDP "rocketing into oblivion" and so on. And I should eat some crow here.
I think Singh has done a strong job since finally arriving in Parliament, and has especially stood out since the election campaign started. While both Trudeau and Scheer have low approval and high disapproval ratings in polling, Singh's polling has improved steadily during the campaign. He is doing a good job. He is pulling "NOT Conservative" votes away from the Liberals, and "NOT Trudeau" votes away from the Conservatives. It is looking like a strong potential for a minority government, and Singh could end up holding the balance of power.
I just don't like most of the Conservatives' policies, but I can't vote Liberal while Trudeau is their leader. I live in a riding where a Conservative candidate is almost certain to be elected, so my vote isn't important anyway, but I've decided for the second election in a row to vote for my local NDP candidate.
Singh seems like a nice guy. He has an odd past on failing to denounce the air india terrorist among other odd issues involving Sikh nationalism. I just think he's horribly inexperienced at the federal level, he just won his seat as MP not long ago, and performed terribly at the Macleans debate because of his clear lack of knowledge on issues. He needs 4 more years as party leader to gain experience IMO
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Nope. I guess in this case the news got out as to why Scheer hired this particular "advisor".
You don’t think it’s is a legitimate reason?
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This election cycle highlights why party leaders have too much power. Scheer and Trudeau etc shouldn't have so much power and influence over their party and their party policy. I barely know anything about my local riding candidates because frankly it doesn't matter a whole lot when how they vote is largely determined by a small cadre at the top of their respective parties. This is disgusting.
Large #'s of people (in this case, MP's) will make better decisions collectively than 1 person or a small group of people will. Bad or extreme ideas will be weeded out most often, that's why democracy works so well. Voters much more often than not make the right decision.Collective will is better than the pet ideas of some ideologue with grand ideas to change society.
Our system needs reform, we need more free votes in parliament etc. That way Trudeau and Scheer's BS will matter much less.
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You don’t think it’s is a legitimate reason?
I guess if you hire a company to specifically find dirt, then they will find dirt, whether real or fake.
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Why does Scheer continiously duck and dodge questions about that, as well as most other issues then? If you prefer that kind of bafflegab you can vote for it tomorrow.
He doesn't have the courage of his convictions. Probably because if he did he wouldn't be very electable.
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I guess if you hire a company to specifically find dirt, then they will find dirt, whether real or fake.
So you think Kinsella has no credibility? The Conservatives were smart to hire him, discredit his findings and you are discrediting a life long Liberal.
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Just checked the latest Poll Tracker from ~ 2 hours ago. While the poll averages are still neck and neck, the seat projections give the Libs. a 48% likelihood of a minority and the Cons. 37%. with BQ as the likely kingmaker.
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So you think Kinsella has no credibility? The Conservatives were smart to hire him, discredit his findings and you are discrediting a life long Liberal.
Kinsella was a Liberal but he is also well known to not like Trudeau. Can ya say conflict of interest?
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Yes, I'm sure you'll be after Prince William for the same reason soon enough. The biggest negative for Trudeau is that the liberal world order is crumbling and that he's the main target right now of Russian and alt right trolls. How some of you miss that is beyond me. Scheer is being supported by these far right and destabilizing ideologies. How anyone with any knowledge can vote for the Conservatives in view of thins frightens me for our Country.
Certainly many in the far right support Scheer, but there just aren't a ton of far right in Canada. Scheer's CPC has 32% of the popular vote right now, and certainly the vast majority of those aren't far right. The PPC is only polling around 2%.
Many of my older relatives will vote for the CPC, they aren't far right and don't love Scheer and think he's a bit of a knob but they are conservative-minded and can't stand JT.
What frightens me about this country is that the leaders of all the parties are entirely incompetent and rabid idealogues. it also fightens me that far right and far left views are becoming mainstreamed and it's easy to see within these parties and leaders and the most vocal voters.
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There's a second thing working against Justin Trudeau - men and women who think they know how men 'should' act don't like him. He cries, he's sensitive, and he doesn't do all of the normal things that men do.
I don't think most people care when men do those things, i just don't think they like it when they think a PM does it with insincerity and/or to signal their virtue and self-righteousness.
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Kinsella was a Liberal but he is also well known to not like Trudeau. Can ya say conflict of interest?
A company doing business with a political party that’s not in line with the CEO’s politics is a conflict of interest??? I don’t think you know what that term means.
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Certainly many in the far right support Scheer, but there just aren't a ton of far right in Canada.
You're kidding right? I live in Western Canada - far right is an apt description of most people here. #trudeaumustgo was traced back to one US alt right troll bot - keep that in mind.
Many of my older relatives will vote for the CPC, they aren't far right and don't love Scheer and think he's a bit of a knob but they are conservative-minded and can't stand JT.
Because JT doesn't fit the mold of what a lot of older people think a male power figure should be.
What frightens me about this country is that the leaders of all the parties are entirely incompetent and rabid idealogues. it also fightens me that far right and far left views are becoming mainstreamed and it's easy to see within these parties and leaders and the most vocal voters.
I voted Liberal for one reason - they've hit all of the right benchmarks, not to mention they kept most of their promises. This view of them as being incompetent is exactly what I'm talking about - it isn't borne out by facts.
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I don't think most people care when men do those things, i just don't think they like it when they think a PM does it with insincerity and/or to signal their virtue and self-righteousness.
The **** does signal their virtue even mean? And who the **** are you to say whether or not Trudeau is being sincere?
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A company doing business with a political party that’s not in line with the CEO’s politics is a conflict of interest??? I don’t think you know what that term means.
Do you think the Liberal Kinsella took on this job solely to help a conservative Scheer, or to hurt Trudeau, with whom he obviously has a personal vendetta with. The term may get a little complex for ya, I understand.
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The **** does signal their virtue even mean? And who the **** are you to say whether or not Trudeau is being sincere?
I don't know how sincere he is, I just don't like being talked down too. He just isn't that wonderful.
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Do you think the Liberal Kinsella took on this job solely to help a conservative Scheer, or to hurt Trudeau, with whom he obviously has a personal vendetta with. The term may get a little complex for ya, I understand.
Another conspiracy theory. Creative.
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Do you think the Liberal Kinsella took on this job solely to help a conservative Scheer, or to hurt Trudeau, with whom he obviously has a personal vendetta with. The term may get a little complex for ya, I understand.
i’ll Give your conspiracy theory credit for being true. How is it a conflict of interest, even if he does have some sort of vendetta against Trudeau? Be specific.
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I don't know how sincere he is, I just don't like being talked down too. He just isn't that wonderful.
I don't really care if he's wonderful or not. People who know him personally say he means what he says. Beyond that, he's been effective - that's what really matters. If not for massive disinformation campaigns, this election wouldn't even be close.
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Another conspiracy theory. Creative.
It's not a conspiracy theory - Kinsella's vendetta against Trudeau is well documented.
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It's not a conspiracy theory - Kinsella's vendetta against Trudeau is well documented.
Kinsella has criticized Trudeau for valid reasons. Is Trudeau so above criticism that other Liberals aren't even allowed to indulge? Pretty diabolical that Kinsella would seek to undermine Trudeau by exposing the faults of the PPC. A regular Machiavellian.
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Kinsella has criticized Trudeau for valid reasons.
A lot of invalid ones too. His old boss Jean Chretien sure seems to disagree with him.
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I don't really care if he's wonderful or not. People who know him personally say he means what he says. Beyond that, he's been effective - that's what really matters. If not for massive disinformation campaigns, this election wouldn't even be close.
Effective at what? He has announced a lot of stuff but other than legalizing pot he is way behind on most things he promised and just ditched others like election reform and deficit reduction. Four years into the mandate and the vaunted fighter competition hasn't taken place and when it does it will likely have only two competitors, both of which he didn't want.
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Effective at what? He has announced a lot of stuff but other than legalizing pot he is way behind on most things he promised and just ditched others like election reform and deficit reduction. Four years into the mandate and the vaunted fighter competition hasn't taken place and when it does it will likely have only two competitors, both of which he didn't want.
So this is what I'm talking about - he actually, according to independent analysis, kept 50% of his promises in full and about 40% in part - that's the highest figure for any government in three and a half decades.
Signature promises were moved forward on. The CPP was expanded. The Canada Child Benefit was brought in. The Guaranteed Income Supplement was expanded. The middle income tax bracket was lowered. The government expanded greatly the orders for navy and coast guard ships. They have made massive progress towards ending all long term boil water advisories on reserve. The new NAFTA was renegotiated with Canada giving up very little and actually getting a few concessions in return. Canada has been moving up the rankings in international comparisons when it comes to quality of life. We have more disposable income. Our taxes are lower. We are actually finally getting on track to meet our climate commitments. We have the lowest unemployment numbers ever. Inflation is within target. Incomes are expanding.
Effective.
Electoral reform is the only signature promise that was broken It was broken because Canadians didn't show enthusiasm, and there was no consensus in parliament over what to replace FPTP with.
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You're kidding right? I live in Western Canada - far right is an apt description of most people here. #trudeaumustgo was traced back to one US alt right troll bot - keep that in mind.
Well, how do you define far right? Are you talking about fascists and neo-nazis and white supremacists, or somewhat racist folk who complain about immigration? If it's the latter you're describing most non-urban folks across Canada, and I don't think they're far right.
Because JT doesn't fit the mold of what a lot of older people think a male power figure should be.
I've never heard them talk much about that. They generally just don't like a lot of his policies.
I voted Liberal for one reason - they've hit all of the right benchmarks, not to mention they kept most of their promises. This view of them as being incompetent is exactly what I'm talking about - it isn't borne out by facts.
I think the Liberals are probably the most competent of all the parties in this election, even considering I don't find Trudeau very likeable.
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Increasing program spending and reducing taxes on borrowed money isn't much of a trick.
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The **** does signal their virtue even mean?
From Oxford definition of "virtue signalling: "The action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue".
And who the **** are you to say whether or not Trudeau is being sincere?
It's my opinion. I am not the arbiter of subjective truth. I subjectively believe the guy is full of it much of the time, and does a lot of things in order to get attention from others, hence the blackface x3, acting, teaching, GQ/Rolling Stone etc magazine covers, charity boxing match, selfies galore, and running for public office etc.
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From Oxford definition of "virtue signalling: "The action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue".
It's my opinion. I am not the arbiter of subjective truth. I subjectively believe the guy is full of it much of the time, and does a lot of things in order to get attention from others, hence the blackface x3, acting, teaching, GQ/Rolling Stone etc magazine covers, charity boxing match, selfies galore, and running for public office etc.
Perhaps if you didn't so clearly admit to being subjective and perhaps try to be objective, you would be taken more seriously.
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Tomorrow on election day, some votes will shift away from the NDP/Greens/Bloc and to the Liberals as voters cast strategic votes to keep Scheer from winning. I think it should be enough to give Liberals the win.
IMO it will only depend on how many % points the Liberals gain from this. I think it will happen more in close riding.
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Perhaps if you didn't so clearly admit to being subjective and perhaps try to be objective, you would be taken more seriously.
We are all subjective to a degree, those who claim not to be are full of it.
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We are all subjective to a degree, those who claim not to be are full of it.
The extent of that "degree" is important. Beyond a certain point it becomes biased and irrelevant.
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The extent of that "degree" is important. Beyond a certain point it becomes biased and irrelevant.
That's a subjective opinion.
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That's a subjective opinion.
You are entitled to your subjective opinions as you see fit.
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You are entitled to your subjective opinions as you see fit.
Yup.
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Perhaps if you didn't so clearly admit to being subjective and perhaps try to be objective, you would be taken more seriously.
I don't care if I'm taken seriously or not, I used to care but don't care as much anymore. My goal is to be true to myself and speak my opinions as I see them without trying to censor or change them to please others especially if I know others will disagree. If i do that I'm successful, I can't change how others think or feel about my opinions.
Lots of people have lost their cool on me on these boards for no other reason than they dislike my opinions. That's on them.
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No answer....?
i’ll Give your conspiracy theory credit for being true. How is it a conflict of interest, even if he does have some sort of vendetta against Trudeau? Be specific.
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I don't care if I'm taken seriously or not, I used to care but don't care as much anymore. My goal is to be true to myself and speak my opinions as I see them without trying to censor or change them to please others especially if I know others will disagree. If i do that I'm successful, I can't change how others think or feel about my opinions.
Lots of people have lost their cool on me on these boards for no other reason than they dislike my opinions. That's on them.
Of course you are entitled to your own opinions as are we all. However I think it is worthwhile to consider the opinions of others in case they may bring something to the issue you weren't yet aware of that could be of importance. Especially when the issue is electing the leader of the land.
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I don't really care if he's wonderful or not. People who know him personally say he means what he says. Beyond that, he's been effective - that's what really matters. If not for massive disinformation campaigns, this election wouldn't even be close.
I don't think disinformation campaigns and Trudeau not acting "manly" are the key reasons people dislike Trudeau so much. I think the reasons have been clearly documented since he came to office, and have been reflected in the polls. The large majority of Canadians disagree on your opinion of Trudeau, as reflected in a 30-something approval rating throughout almost all of 2019.
If a quality alternative were available the Liberals would lose, and voters are desperate for that alternative. Nobody has come out as that alternative. The moment Singh showed any signs of being a decent leader in the english debate the NDP polling numbers jumped 5 points (and the Bloc #'s rose as well) and the Liberal numbers dropped by about the same.
I think Liberal policies have been much better than his leadership. Not to say their policies have been amazing but they've been decent, his leadership has just been that bad, and his polling reflect this. Liberal policies IMO are better than all of the other parties, or should I say the least crappy. The party should have dumped that albatross many months ago but decided to back their man over JWR. That tells us everything we need to know about the character of our elected MP's, and the other parties are no more ethical.
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Of course you are entitled to your own opinions as are we all. However I think it is worthwhile to consider the opinions of others in case they may bring something to the issue you weren't yet aware of that could be of importance. Especially when the issue is electing the leader of the land.
Agreed 100%, well said. I think that's the whole point of debating on here, not simply to win arguments.
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Do you think the Liberal Kinsella took on this job solely to help a conservative Scheer, or to hurt Trudeau, with whom he obviously has a personal vendetta with. The term may get a little complex for ya, I understand.
Squid has it right and you have it wrong.
First off, the CPC hired Kinsella to find dirt on the PPC, not the Liberals.
Second, even if the CPC had hired Kinsella to find damaging information about the Liberals, it's still not a conflict of interest. Kinsella hating Trudeau doesn't make it a conflict of interest.
The phrase "conflict of interest" has an actual meaning, and you clearly don't understand what it means.
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I don't think disinformation campaigns and Trudeau not acting "manly" are the key reasons people dislike Trudeau so much. I think the reasons have been clearly documented since he came to office, and have been reflected in the polls. The large majority of Canadians disagree on your opinion of Trudeau, as reflected in a 30-something approval rating throughout almost all of 2019.
If a quality alternative were available the Liberals would lose, and voters are desperate for that alternative. Nobody has come out as that alternative. The moment Singh showed any signs of being a decent leader in the english debate the NDP polling numbers jumped 5 points (and the Bloc #'s rose as well) and the Liberal numbers dropped by about the same.
I think Liberal policies have been much better than his leadership. Not to say their policies have been amazing but they've been decent, his leadership has just been that bad, and his polling reflect this. Liberal policies IMO are better than all of the other parties, or should I say the least crappy. The party should have dumped that albatross many months ago but decided to back their man over JWR. That tells us everything we need to know about the character of our elected MP's, and the other parties are no more ethical.
I think it's quite the disconnect to claim that there hasn't been a disinformation campaign, and then to claim the reason for the low poll numbers are JT himself. With interference from Russia, the US alt right, and the IDU, it's been a real challenge (and those aren't conspiracy theories, those are real). Exploitation of ignorant people's fear of the other, coupled with outright lies and fabrication cover Facebook, Twitter, and even Instagram. I follow this stuff ever single day. People who actually meet him tend to love him and see him as genuine. People who didn't like him anyway have succeeded in turning him into the anti christ.
And yeah, their policies are better than anyone else's - by a long shot. This election shouldn't even be close.
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Yes, I'm sure you'll be after Prince William for the same reason soon enough.
Oh, is Prince William running for office?
The biggest negative for Trudeau is that the liberal world order is crumbling and that he's the main target right now of Russian and alt right trolls.
Russian bots made Trudeau wear blackface? Alt-right trolls made Trudeau flounder in the SNC-Lavalin shenanigans?
This is all bullshit. Trudeau's problems are of his own making. The Liberals would be far better off if they ditch this bozo at the first opportunity and get a competent and moral leader. Trudeau isn't wise, he isn't smart, he isn't ethical, he has extremely poor judgment, and while his charisma and image might have been a big asset in 2015, the romance has worn off. People are past it. If things go as expected tomorrow, Trudeau will have received a rebuke from voters and the Liberals should take notice.
How some of you miss that is beyond me. Scheer is being supported by these far right and destabilizing ideologies. How anyone with any knowledge can vote for the Conservatives in view of thins frightens me for our Country.
And as I keep saying, I'm not voting for the Conservatives. One of the things I'm most tired of is the implication that if I don't pretend that this stuffed shirt is a great Prime Minister, I'm turning the country over to the alt-right forces of darkness.
It is not treason to point out that the Liberals would be a much stronger position without a feckless goof at the helm.
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And yeah, their policies are better than anyone else's - by a long shot. This election shouldn't even be close.
We agree on that much, but we strongly disagree on why. It's folly to just ignore the issue of the man at the helm and blame all their troubles on Russians and trolls.
I think it's quite the disconnect to claim that there hasn't been a disinformation campaign, and then to claim the reason for the low poll numbers are JT himself. With interference from Russia, the US alt right, and the IDU, it's been a real challenge (and those aren't conspiracy theories, those are real). Exploitation of ignorant people's fear of the other, coupled with outright lies and fabrication cover Facebook, Twitter, and even Instagram. I follow this stuff ever single day. People who actually meet him tend to love him and see him as genuine. People who didn't like him anyway have succeeded in turning him into the anti christ.
There have been innumerable articles from a wide variety of source talking about why the shine has come off Trudeau, and you're content to ignore all that and put the blame on outside interference. Trolls gonna troll, bots gonna bot, but at the end of the day, they'd have a lot less material to work with if the Prime Minister himself wasn't such a vapid twit.
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Oh, is Prince William running for office?
Play dumb then.
Russian bots made Trudeau wear blackface? Alt-right trolls made Trudeau flounder in the SNC-Lavalin shenanigans?
The blackface thing was dumb. I won't defend it. The SNC thing is still a non issue that the media tried really hard with.
This is all bullshit. Trudeau's problems are of his own making. The Liberals would be far better off if they ditch this bozo at the first opportunity and get a competent and moral leader. Trudeau isn't wise, he isn't smart, he isn't ethical, he has extremely poor judgment, and while his charisma and image might have been a big asset in 2015, the romance has worn off. People are past it. If things go as expected tomorrow, Trudeau will have received a rebuke from voters and the Liberals should take notice.
And as I keep saying, I'm not voting for the Conservatives. One of the things I'm most tired of is the implication that if I don't pretend that this stuffed shirt is a great Prime Minister, I'm turning the country over to the alt-right forces of darkness.
It is not treason to point out that the Liberals would be a much stronger position without a feckless goof at the helm.
Pretend that there hasn't been a concerted effort by the alt right to smear Trudeau in every way possible. That's fine. It doesn't change reality.
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And this isn't to say that Trudeau is amazing, but I'll take Obama's endorsement over Kimmy's rebuke any day.
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The blackface thing was dumb. I won't defend it. The SNC thing is still a non issue that the media tried really hard with.
Pretend that there hasn't been a concerted effort by the alt right to smear Trudeau in every way possible. That's fine. It doesn't change reality.
To ignoring his missteps and shortcomings and follies and pretend that everything would be going great if it weren't for those darned Russians is to bury your head in the sand.
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I think it's quite the disconnect to claim that there hasn't been a disinformation campaign, and then to claim the reason for the low poll numbers are JT himself.
I never claimed there was no disinformation campaigns, of course they exist, i'm saying they aren't the reason for his low polling #'s, those have been the case all year.
People who actually meet him tend to love him and see him as genuine. People who didn't like him anyway have succeeded in turning him into the anti christ.
Well I see no evidence of the first claim. But whether he's a genuine guy or not in private is different than how he speaks and behaves in public, and how voters perceive him. I'm only entitled to my opinion, and you of yours, and looking at polls of other people's opinions. We have no way of proving if he's genuine or not.
And yeah, their policies are better than anyone else's - by a long shot. This election shouldn't even be close.
Well that's your opinion of course. The public has theirs. I think without the whole JWR thing he would obviously be higher in the polls, we know each other's opinion of that debacle. I guess we'll see tomorrow what happens. I expect the Liberals to win, IMO they don't deserve it but they're the best choice given the alternatives, hopefully it's a minority gov.
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Squid has it right and you have it wrong.
First off, the CPC hired Kinsella to find dirt on the PPC, not the Liberals.
Second, even if the CPC had hired Kinsella to find damaging information about the Liberals, it's still not a conflict of interest. Kinsella hating Trudeau doesn't make it a conflict of interest.
The phrase "conflict of interest" has an actual meaning, and you clearly don't understand what it means.
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And you clearly seem to presume you know Kinsella's intent with taking this contract.
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I never claimed there was no disinformation campaigns, of course they exist, i'm saying they aren't the reason for his low polling #'s, those have been the case all year.
The disinformation campaign started long before this year.
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Well I see no evidence of the first claim.
Well, I certainly have, from Ed the Sock to Tom Greene.
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To ignoring his missteps and shortcomings and follies and pretend that everything would be going great if it weren't for those darned Russians is to bury your head in the sand.
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He's human. Missteps are normal. The new reality of what's afflicting the west is still real.
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And you clearly seem to presume you know Kinsella's intent with taking this contract.
His intent is irrelevant.
You've been challenged several times to explain why you think there's a conflict of interest, and all you've managed to demonstrate is that you don't have the faintest idea what conflict of interest actually means.
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And this isn't to say that Trudeau is amazing, but I'll take Obama's endorsement over Kimmy's rebuke any day.
Kimmy's opinion matters, Obama's doesn't. Kimmy actually has a vote, and a dog in this fight. Same with you and I. Obama can bugger off.
Russian interference is bad, but Obama's foreign political interference into our election is cool? Not that a tweet is even remotely comparable with what Russia does, but make no mistake that Obama (a foreign political actor) is trying to influence our election results.
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Kimmy's opinion matters, Obama's doesn't. Kimmy actually has a vote, and a dog in this fight. Same with you and I. Obama can bugger off.
There are like 3 leaders left in the liberal democratic order. Trudeau is one of them, and the other two aren't doing so hot either. EVeryone has a dog in this fight.
Russian interference is bad, but Obama's foreign political interference into our election is cool? Not that a tweet is even remotely comparable with what Russia does, but make no mistake that Obama (a foreign political actor) is trying to influence our election results.
Obama is a private citizen - Elections Canada already weighed in.
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Well, I certainly have, from Ed the Sock to Tom Greene.
Circumstantial evidence. A few peeps saying he's a sincere guy doesn't mean he's a sincere guy.
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Circumstantial evidence. A few peeps saying he's a sincere guy doesn't mean he's a sincere guy.
Since I was only talking about circumstantial evidence, I provided said evidence. I said that people who meet him tend to feel that way.
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His intent is irrelevant.
You've been challenged several times to explain why you think there's a conflict of interest, and all you've managed to demonstrate is that you don't have the faintest idea what conflict of interest actually means.
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His intent is totally relevant. Biasing his research to try to smear someone he personally doesn't like completely fits the definition.
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Well, I certainly have, from Ed the Sock to Tom Greene.
There's a shining endorsement-- a literal sock-puppet best known for a late-night show featuring a hot-tub full of strippers known as "the Wank Tank". I bet Justin would have been right at home on Ed's show.
He's human. Missteps are normal. The new reality of what's afflicting the west is still real.
Also real is the fact that Trudeau is a vapid, underqualified goof.
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There's a shining endorsement-- a literal sock-puppet best known for a late-night show featuring a hot-tub full of strippers known as "the Wank Tank". I bet Justin would have been right at home on Ed's show.
Ed the Sock's political views are far more compelling that your own.
All of I have to do is look at the **** show going on around the world to realize how lucky we've been in the last few years to have the Trudeau Liberals at the helm.
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His intent is totally relevant. Biasing his research to try to smear someone he personally doesn't like completely fits the definition.
1) Nobody has established that Kinsella's research is biased or inaccurate. If he did provide the CPC with inaccurate information, it still wouldn't be a conflict of interest. Go read a book, you might learn something.
2) it still hasn't gotten through your dense skull that the CPC hired Kinsella to investigate the PPC, not the Liberals. What do Kinsella's feelings about Trudeau have to do with his contract to investigate MAXIME BERNIER's party?
3) seriously, do you have a concussion or something? Are you okay? Do you smell toast right now? Do you need help? Would you like someone to call an ambulance for you?
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The disinformation campaign started long before this year.
To blame Russian bots and alt-right trolls plus the "manliness factor" as key reasons on Trudeau's popularity slide is trying to find your own more nefarious reasons for why many others have different opinions of the man than you do. Others simply disagree with your assessment of him, i think it's that simple. The reasons have been reported in the news all over the MSM since he was elected, by his own doing, which i agree with kimmy on. You're burying your head in the sand, as she said. The fourth estate did its job. Occam's razor.
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All of I have to do is look at the **** show going on around the world to realize how lucky we've been in the last few years to have the Trudeau Liberals at the helm.
I can agree about the Liberals, but disagree about Trudeau. He's their biggest shortcoming. He's a boat anchor. He's the single biggest reason they're about to turn a healthy majority into a shaky minority. They will be much better off without him. I think that Liberal cheerleaders actually understand this, and will breathe a big sigh of relief once they don't have to defend this chump anymore.
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1) Nobody has established that Kinsella's research is biased or inaccurate. If he did provide the CPC with inaccurate information, it still wouldn't be a conflict of interest. Go read a book, you might learn something.
2) it still hasn't gotten through your dense skull that the CPC hired Kinsella to investigate the PPC, not the Liberals. What do Kinsella's feelings about Trudeau have to do with his contract to investigate MAXIME BERNIER's party?
3) seriously, do you have a concussion or something? Are you okay? Do you smell toast right now? Do you need help? Would you like someone to call an ambulance for you?
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You get gnarly when you get challenged I see. Let us know if you need an ambulance tomorrow when Trudeau is returned to office.
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I can agree about the Liberals, but disagree about Trudeau. He's their biggest shortcoming. He's a boat anchor. He's the single biggest reason they're about to turn a healthy majority into a shaky minority. They will be much better off without him. I think that Liberal cheerleaders actually understand this, and will breathe a big sigh of relief once they don't have to defend this chump anymore.
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I think you'd be wrong in your assessment that Liberals want Trudeau gone.
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Since I was only talking about circumstantial evidence, I provided said evidence. I said that people who meet him tend to feel that way.
You're trying to make a general claim using only 2 examples out of the many thousands of people who have met him.
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To blame Russian bots and alt-right trolls plus the "manliness factor" as key reasons on Trudeau's popularity slide is trying to find your own more nefarious reasons for why many others have different opinions of the man than you do.
No, it's reality. You can believe what you want.
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You're trying to make a general claim using only 2 examples out of the many thousands of people who have met him.
You asked me for evidence, and I provided you with a couple of names - don't be an idiot.
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I'm tired of this election and all the nonsense that's come with it - this website is no better than anywhere else.
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You get gnarly when you get challenged I see. Let us know if you need an ambulance tomorrow when Trudeau is returned to office.
And you post dumb stuff like this when you're challenged.
You didn't even realize that it wasn't Trudeau that Kinsella had been hired to research. You're so completely clueless and yet you keep talking and talking.
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But her emails! That's about sums up world politics right now.
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You asked me for evidence, and I provided you with a couple of names - don't be an idiot.
If I knew 2 guys that met Scheer and said he was a sincere dude, that wouldn't be strong evidence for the claim that "people who meet Scheer tend to think he's sincere".
Calling me names is what happens on here when people run out of legit arguments.
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And you post dumb stuff like this when you're challenged.
You didn't even realize that it wasn't Trudeau that Kinsella had been hired to research. You're so completely clueless and yet you keep talking and talking.
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Oh I think we all know why Kinsella was hired. Don't stumble around trying to suggest we don't. "I'll dig up/make up any kind of dirt on Bernier to get him out of the way of my buddy Scheer so I can help him beat that guy Trudeau guy I don't like"
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I think you'd be wrong in your assessment that Liberals want Trudeau gone.
If they're not at least asking the question, they ought to be.
With all the positives going for them, they should have been a lot to win an easy reelection, and instead most people are anticipating a shaky minority tomorrow night. And it's not because the Conservatives are surging, because the Conservatives aren't surging.
It's not Yellow Vest people and angry old-people on Facebook that have turned against Trudeau, because they never supported him in the first place. The problem is that progressives who supported Trudeau last time around have figured out that he's a phony and are taking their votes elsewhere this time, or just staying home. He has lost those peoples' trust, and it's not going to come back.
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Oh I think we all know why Kinsella was hired. Don't stumble around trying to suggest we don't. "I'll dig up/make up any kind of dirt on Bernier to get him out of the way of my buddy Scheer so I can help him beat that guy Trudeau guy I don't like"
See, what you're describing is called "an ulterior motive", not "a conflict of interest". There's nothing illegal or unethical about this.
I'll also point out that Kinsella's distaste for Bernier and for racists in general is such that he was probably very happy to be paid to do this, since usually he does this sort of thing on his own dime.
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It's not Yellow Vest people and angry old-people on Facebook that have turned against Trudeau, because they never supported him in the first place. The problem is that progressives who supported Trudeau last time around have figured out that he's a phony and are taking their votes elsewhere this time, or just staying home. He has lost those peoples' trust, and it's not going to come back.
That doesn't really work since he delivered on basically his entire platform from last time.
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That doesn't really work since he delivered on basically his entire platform from last time.
I don't think that's true. (you posted a figure of something like 50% of campaign promises kept, didn't you?)
There was electoral reform, which has been discussed here ad nauseum. There was "making the wealthy pay their share", by which most people expected he meant to take on tax avoidance by corporations and the ultra-rich, and instead turned out to be the ill-advised plan to attack "income-sprinkling" by doctors and small business-people.
And of course there's stuff he did that didn't appear in the platform. Like bending the rules to try to keep a favored corporation from being prosecuted, and subsequent handling of that controversy. Or wearing blackface. Or the cosplay tour of India. Or taunting "thank you for your donation" as the clean water protesters were hauled away from his event. (Buying a pipeline probably turned off a lot of progressives, although I don't think that was really his decision.) I think this is the stuff that has really made people lose trust and respect for Trudeau.
If you don't think the Liberals have bled support to the NDP and Greens (and the BQ, in Quebec) then where has it gone? Because the CPC support has been completely flat as well-- Liberal votes aren't going to the Tories.
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Oh I think we all know why Kinsella was hired. Don't stumble around trying to suggest we don't. "I'll dig up/make up any kind of dirt on Bernier to get him out of the way of my buddy Scheer so I can help him beat that guy Trudeau guy I don't like"
So what stuff about PPC candidates did he make up? Be specific. Or did you just make that up?
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This will be an interesting night. I honestly have no clue what's going to happen.
A minority, either way, seems likely.
Will the chance of a Liberal-NDP coalition actually move purple voters to the CPC?
A CPC minority will be interesting because we could find ourselves back at the polls in short order if they force votes on the Carbon Tax or Austerity. Will the NDP and Liberals swallow that just to bide time?
Lots of question, no answers yet.
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You're kidding right? I live in Western Canada - far right is an apt description of most people here. #trudeaumustgo was traced back to one US alt right troll bot - keep that in mind.
This is the tactic that I've talked about so often in the past. They poison the water by dropping suggestions on social media. After that, the useful idiots run with it and spread it like wildfire.
It's like this. They need to have some overt psychological warfare that's forceful. Our democracy is a house of cards. They just need enough force to pull one of those cards out of the stack, then watch the rest crumble along with it.
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To ignoring his missteps and shortcomings and follies and pretend that everything would be going great if it weren't for those darned Russians is to bury your head in the sand.
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You're talking about Trudeau's missteps and follies in a scenario where the alternative is Andrew Scheer who hasn't offered anything substantive whatsoever. Literally, the only reason to vote for the Conservatives is because they're "not Liberal." That's all I keep hearing from the CPC and that's all I'm hearing from you. In that case, the NDP and Green Parties aren't Liberal either. For that matter, neither is the PPC. So you can talk about all of Trudeau's mis-steps and shortcomings all you want, the alternative is someone who hasn't offered anything of substance as an alternative.
JMT is correct. It shouldn't even be close. That it is, speaks more to the disinformation that's been spread on social media than anything else. That Scheer can even remotely seem like an alternative is baffling to say the least.
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So what I am reading is there is no reason to vote LIBERAL and no reason to vote CONSERVATIVE.
God how I wish there was some other party to vote for ??? ::) :) :D ;D ;)
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You're talking about Trudeau's missteps and follies in a scenario where the alternative is Andrew Scheer who hasn't offered anything substantive whatsoever. Literally, the only reason to vote for the Conservatives is because they're "not Liberal." That's all I keep hearing from the CPC and that's all I'm hearing from you. In that case, the NDP and Green Parties aren't Liberal either. For that matter, neither is the PPC. So you can talk about all of Trudeau's mis-steps and shortcomings all you want, the alternative is someone who hasn't offered anything of substance as an alternative.
JMT is correct. It shouldn't even be close. That it is, speaks more to the disinformation that's been spread on social media than anything else. That Scheer can even remotely seem like an alternative is baffling to say the least.
The CPC is polling at 32%. Last election, they got 32%.
It’s not as if the CPC is riding high. They have their one third locked down. So I don’t see that anyone sees Scheer as an alternative to the Libs who didn’t already want him to win.
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What's your problem with him looking into the PPC?
How many times do I have to say that is not what my problem is? Perhaps if you listened to what people actually say, and not what you project onto them, we could communicate better.
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JMT is correct. It shouldn't even be close. That it is, speaks more to the disinformation that's been spread on social media than anything else. That Scheer can even remotely seem like an alternative is baffling to say the least.
Scheer is crap. Trudeau is crap. The NDP and Jagmeet were terrible until Jagmeet had one very good debate performance. The Green platform is insane. The Bloc is the Bloc. The PPC are alt-right.
Given that few people are inspired by any of these parties and don't want to reward Trudeau for his many bad choices, it makes sense that it is this close, at least in polls prior to the election. Even progressives are confused vote for based on the lackluster choices, but I think many will vote strategically for the Liberals today to keep out Scheer.
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So what I am reading is there is no reason to vote LIBERAL and no reason to vote CONSERVATIVE.
God how I wish there was some other party to vote for ??? ::) :) :D ;D ;)
Too bad those parties suck too.
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Scheer is crap. Trudeau is crap. The NDP and Jagmeet were terrible until Jagmeet had one very good debate performance. The Green platform is insane. The Bloc is the Bloc. The PPC are alt-right.
Given that few people are inspired by any of these parties and don't want to reward Trudeau for his many bad choices, it makes sense that it is this close, at least in polls prior to the election. Even progressives are confused vote for based on the lackluster choices, but I think many will vote strategically for the Liberals today to keep out Scheer.
I think you may be wrong with your comment about "few people" are inspired to vote. The numbers in advance polling jumped ~30 since 2015 and the turnout is expected to be similar today. Close to 1/5th of eligible voters have already marked an X.
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I think you may be wrong with your comment about "few people" are inspired to vote. The numbers in advance polling jumped ~30 since 2015 and the turnout is expected to be similar today. Close to 1/5th of eligible voters have already marked an X.
I didn't say people aren't inspired to vote, i said few people are inspired by any of these parties.
Advance polling numbers are up because they expanded the # of days you could go to the advance polls.
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I didn't say people aren't inspired to vote, i said few people are inspired by any of these parties.
Advance polling numbers are up because they expanded the # of days you could go to the advance polls.
Actually both elections had 4 days of advance polling. There were more polling stations available this time though.
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I have never in all my years been so utterly uninspired by our choices as I am in this election.
As far as parties go, Conservatives will never get my vote and the Greens are a waste of a vote (though I argue with my mom every election on this issue).
I never supported Singh's leadership given that I believe he was voted in by people who were primarily new to the party. Whether Sikh or not is not my issue, the fact that they were not party members prior to his leadership never settled well with me.
Trudeau lost me with electoral reform and the nail on the coffin came with Kinder Morgan, but admittedly I like what he has done for Canada on the world stage. He seems to have a lot of respect in spite of what his opponents believe and I like the pride he has brought to this country.
I personally know my Liberal candidate and she is an amazing woman. I even saw her this morning and we chatted for a while. I was THIS close to voting for her because I'm so ambivalent about the party leaders of the NDP and LPC, and on a personal scale I really admire this woman.
I sat outside the voting booth contemplating, going back and forth and then I remembered Trudeau buying a F$#% pipeline with CPP money and with a vengeance I voted NDP.
I will never forgive him for that. Grrr.
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28 votes counted and the CPC has 71% of the ballots cast! uh-oh... they're kickin' ass!! ;)
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I have never in all my years been so utterly uninspired by our choices as I am in this election.
As far as parties go, Conservatives will never get my vote and the Greens are a waste of a vote (though I argue with my mom every election on this issue).
I never supported Singh's leadership given that I believe he was voted in by people who were primarily new to the party. Whether Sikh or not is not my issue, the fact that they were not party members prior to his leadership never settled well with me.
Trudeau lost me with electoral reform and the nail on the coffin came with Kinder Morgan, but admittedly I like what he has done for Canada on the world stage. He seems to have a lot of respect in spite of what his opponents believe and I like the pride he has brought to this country.
I personally know my Liberal candidate and she is an amazing woman. I even saw her this morning and we chatted for a while. I was THIS close to voting for her because I'm so ambivalent about the party leaders of the NDP and LPC, and on a personal scale I really admire this woman.
I sat outside the voting booth contemplating, going back and forth and then I remembered Trudeau buying a F$#% pipeline with CPP money and with a vengeance I voted NDP.
I will never forgive him for that. Grrr.
So if NDP finishes 3rd in your riding, will you consider that a "wasted vote"?
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Is this the first election night of this site? No chat room?
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So if NDP finishes 3rd in your riding, will you consider that a "wasted vote"?
No, sadly, thanks to Trudeau's broken promises, I'm all for strategic voting. My riding is leaning orange.
I dislike Trudeau but I prefer Liberal to Conservative.
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I sat outside the voting booth contemplating, going back and forth and then I remembered Trudeau buying a F$#% pipeline with CPP money and with a vengeance I voted NDP.
I will never forgive him for that. Grrr.
What's your objection to the pipeline? Climate change? BC rights? Aboriginal rights?
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What's your objection to the pipeline? Climate change? BC rights? Aboriginal rights?
A lot of people in the lower mainland felt betrayed by the way Trudeau handled the pipeline. From old in laws to young work colleagues, it hurt a lot of us.
I don't really want to debate the issue, the relevance of the topic as far as this thread goes is that it was the determining factor for me even though I really like my Liberal candidate.
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30% of people polled in Quebec according to 338 support the Bloc. That's a lot. Why so many separatist traitors still in QC?
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A lot of people in the lower mainland felt betrayed by the way Trudeau handled the pipeline. From old in laws to young work colleagues, it hurt a lot of us.
I don't really want to debate the issue, the relevance of the topic as far as this thread goes is that it was the determining factor for me even though I really like my Liberal candidate.
I don't want to debate it either, i just want to understand why. I don't understand a sense of betrayal. Like he was siding with AB over BC and aboriginal rights?
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Trudeau lost me with electoral reform
It was the NDP that killed electoral reform by insisting on the crazy PR system. I don't want my Saskatoon MP to be some clown from Toronto chosen by the bagmen in party heaquarters who probably could't find Saskatchewan on a map. PR makes Party affilliation all important and encourages splinter parties. Look at Israel, Germany or Italy where the Flower arranger's Party gets three seats and holds the balance of power.
Think of Weaver and his two members holding BC hostage and see that as a permanent situation and then imagine the Government trying to introduce dramatic measures to fight climate change with six members of the Tar Sands Democratic Party holding the balance of power.
If you want electoral reform, have run-off elections in those ridings where the leading candidate did not get a majority. We cannot fight climate change without a majority government.
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I really like Jagmeet but I voted Liberal in direct response to the crazy Trudeau haters.
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I really like Jagmeet but I voted Liberal in direct response to the crazy Trudeau haters.
Ditto. I like my NDP candidate but some times one needs to think strategically.
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Why so many separatist traitors still in QC?
I think there are more separatist traitors in Alberta than Quebec. The Bloc has many things in its platform that appeal to Quebec voters other than sovereignty. More important, they dislike the other options.
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I think there are more separatist traitors in Alberta than Quebec. The Bloc has many things in its platform that appeal to Quebec voters other than sovereignty. More important, they dislike the other options.
Traitors? Really?
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I think there are more separatist traitors in Alberta than Quebec. The Bloc has many things in its platform that appeal to Quebec voters other than sovereignty. More important, they dislike the other options.
There's no major separatist AB parties, provincially or federally. Yeah a lot of it is probably because they want a party to represent QC. 30% is a still a lot to support a bunch of separatists though.
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So far it looks like 25 seats for Libs and 5 for CPC in Maritimes...so far pre-election seat projections at 338 are bang on.
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Liberals must be pretty happy so far.
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Traitors? Really?
It made sense if you'd read the post which he was quoting.
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It was the NDP that killed electoral reform by insisting on the crazy PR system. I don't want my Saskatoon MP to be some clown from Toronto chosen by the bagmen in party heaquarters who probably could't find Saskatchewan on a map. PR makes Party affilliation all important and encourages splinter parties. Look at Israel, Germany or Italy where the Flower arranger's Party gets three seats and holds the balance of power.
Think of Weaver and his two members holding BC hostage and see that as a permanent situation and then imagine the Government trying to introduce dramatic measures to fight climate change with six members of the Tar Sands Democratic Party holding the balance of power.
If you want electoral reform, have run-off elections in those ridings where the leading candidate did not get a majority. We cannot fight climate change without a majority government.
I didn't rate your post creative, I'm not sure how that happened but I can't seem to be able to undo it.
I don't think fighting climate change was part of the plan, otherwise he wouldn't have pandered so badly to Alberta's oil industry. Realistically, PR would hurt the Liberals and everything else is an excuse.
Of course there are issues with other forms of government but compromising is a good thing and definitely better than the same two parties forming government and undoing what the other one did every few years.
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CBC just calls a Liberal win. I guess we'll see if a minority or majority. Somewhere Waldo is masturbating.
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Looks like Bernier is getting thumped. ;D
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I predict correctly so far. I'm a genius.
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Looks like Bernier is getting thumped. ;D
I saw he was winning his own riding.
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Hoping for a minority....
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CBC just calls a Liberal win. I guess we'll see if a minority or majority. Somewhere Waldo is masturbating.
You sound like Rue with your sexual innuendos.
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I saw he was winning his own riding.
PPC isn’t leading in any riding....
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I don't want to debate it either, i just want to understand why. I don't understand a sense of betrayal. Like he was siding with AB over BC and aboriginal rights?
I would change the 'siding with' to 'pandering to' and then yeah, pretty much.
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CBC just calls a Liberal win. I guess we'll see if a minority or majority. Somewhere Waldo is masturbating.
Minority for sure.
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Hoping for a minority....
Hopefully Trudeau's ego allows him to work with the NDP and avoid another election too soon.
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Minority for sure.
I wouldn't be too sure about that. BC might push Trudeau over the top.
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Hoping for a minority....
CBC say minority.....
Good news.
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I wouldn't be too sure about that. BC might push Trudeau over the top.
Yeah it's plausible, I don't think anyone saw the 2015 majority coming but I'd be very shocked if the Liberals have the same support this time around in BC.
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Hopefully Trudeau's ego allows him to work with the NDP and avoid another election too soon.
You can count on the Liberal dirtbags not sharing power long.... as soon as they see polls in their favour, they will call a snap election.
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I wouldn't be too sure about that. BC might push Trudeau over the top.
The BQ, NDP and Greens have already taken 50 seats out of play, the Conservatives only need 18 more than they are showing now to prevent a Liberal majority. They will get at least 20 in Alberta alone.
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You sound like Rue with your sexual innuendos.
I love sexual innuendos. In fact, i'm masturbating right now!
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You can count on the Liberal dirtbags not sharing power long.... as soon as they see polls in their favour, they will call a snap election.
They will have to change the fixed election date law to do it. Considering the flack they gave Harper, it would be the height of hypocrisy. So ya, expect them to do it.
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The BQ, NDP and Greens have already taken 50 seats out of play, the Conservatives only need 18 more than they are showing now to prevent a Liberal majority. They will get at least 20 in Alberta alone.
It will certainly be a strong minority unless something changes drastically.
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They will have to change the fixed election date law to do it. Considering the flack they gave Harper, it would be the height of hypocrisy. So ya, expect them to do it.
No, they absolutely don’t. Harper didn’t change the law. The fixed election law is useless.
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I voted CPC. Not be because i wanted them to win, but because i didn't want the Liberals to win a majority because i knew there would be significant votes swinging to the Liberals via strategic voting. I voted strategically. I'm ok with a Liberal minority, probably the best outcome possible, unless the Bloc or NDP make them do crazy crap to get any laws passed.
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Scheer you're such a loser. Everybody hates you.
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No, they absolutely don’t. Harper didn’t change the law. The fixed election law is useless.
It isn't practical with minorities because it gives total control of an election date to the opposition. The Liberals roasted Harper for it but you can count on them doing it themselves.
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Bernier lost his own seat. Him and his entire party is toast. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
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Bernier lost his own seat. Him and his entire party is toast. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
As much as I agree the party is trash, I was hoping to see them gain more traction and split the right to even things out. We have a centrist party, two left of centre and only one right. Conservatives have an advantage.
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As much as I agree the party is trash, I was hoping to see them gain more traction and split the right to even things out. We have a centrist party, two left of centre and only one right. Conservatives have an advantage.
Cons lost anyway, so it’s not an issue. I’m still amazed that people think the Libs are on the left.
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How does Hedy Fry keep winning....??? ???
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NDP down from 44 to 25 seats.... and yet, they will have more power in parliament than they have ever had.
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Cons lost anyway, so it’s not an issue. I’m still amazed that people think the Libs are on the left.
This election aside, I would still like to see Canada have more than one right of centre party.
I laugh too when people say Liberals are left.
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This election aside, I would still like to see Canada have more than one right of centre party.
I laugh too when people say Liberals are left.
Then we already have that in Canada with the Libs... ;D
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Ahhh.... looks like the Facebook bullshit campaigns failed...
Scheer should quit tomorrow.
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Then we already have that in Canada with the Libs... ;D
Touche.
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Greens projected to get four seats! Way to go, Vancouver Island.
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Greens projected to get four seats! Way to go, Vancouver Island.
And 1 on the east coast!
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As much as I agree the party is trash, I was hoping to see them gain more traction and split the right to even things out. We have a centrist party, two left of centre and only one right. Conservatives have an advantage.
We don't have a centrist party. Liberals come closest, but they are clearly leftwing. The others are far on the left.
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Scheer sold out all of his personal convictions for nothing. For a distant 2nd place finish. He truly is a cuck. Not a conservative at all, or a centrist, just pathetic.
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And 1 on the east coast!
I think I owe my mom an apology on the 20 year old 'waste of a vote' argument.
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A couple more years of this piece of sh!t Trudeau is the best result we could have hoped for. I mean he really is the best choice, how horribly pathetic. As always, the voters get it right. F.uck our politics.
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Greens projected to get four seats! Way to go, Vancouver Island.
Congrats to the Greenpeace hippie dopesmokers. At least they don't kill anyone with guns, just stupidity.
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We don't have a centrist party. Liberals come closest, but they are clearly leftwing. The others are far on the left.
They're conservatives that go to gay parades. On economic issues they're completely right wing.
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Congrats to the Greenpeace hippie dopesmokers. At least they don't kill anyone with guns, just stupidity.
You’re a complete idiot. Did you steal your mom’s booze tonight?
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Lisa Raitt lost her seat. Not a good result.
The Cons need to start trying to appeal to people other than climate denier idiots.... it isn’t working for them. Michael Chong as leader would help.
I should edit to add:
It only works in Alberta, Saskatchewan and some backward rural ridings.
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You’re a complete idiot. Did you steal your mom’s booze tonight?
And apparently he's masturbating.
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They're conservatives that go to gay parades. On economic issues they're completely right wing.
So right-wing they run 20 billion deficits every year to pay out their free goodies to people.
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So right-wing they run 20 billion deficits every year to pay out their free goodies to people.
Harper and Mulroney did the same. In spite of party mantra, conservatives are not fiscally responsible.
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Harper and Mulroney did the same. In spite of party mantra, conservatives are not fiscally responsible.
Stop letting facts get in the way of the drunk kid’s myths!
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You’re a complete idiot. Did you steal your mom’s booze tonight?
Yes we know, you think everyone is "dumb" and an "idiot" You're so smart these are the best arguments you can make.
Are you saying the Green Party isn't made up of Greenpeace hippie dopesmokers? The Green platform is insane pot-fueled mayhem, they want to raise spending by 70 billion a year while somehow also dismantling the oil industry which is the driving force of our economy and gov tax revenues. They want to decimate the only province that isn't a have-not. They are mentally retarded.
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Greens have the same number of votes as Bloc. One got 32 seats, the other 3.
Our system is so flawed.
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Lisa Raitt lost her seat. Not a good result.
The Cons need to start trying to appeal to people other than climate denier idiots.... it isn’t working for them. Michael Chong as leader would help.
I should edit to add:
It only works in Alberta, Saskatchewan and some backward rural ridings.
Well we agree that Michael Chong seems like a reasonable conservative. Maybe we should send books to all the other CPC members.
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Stop letting facts get in the way of the drunk kid’s myths!
I'm not drunk i'm getting high on my green party friend's reefer. It's reefer madness in the PG home tonight!!!
I'm also masturbating.
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Greens have the same number of votes as Bloc. One got 32 seats, the other 3.
Our system is so flawed.
That's pretty crazy. Thing is, Bloc voters vote as a bloc. Zing!
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Yes we know, you think everyone is "dumb" and an "idiot" You're so smart these are the best arguments you can make.
No... I’m far from the smartest anything.... the problem is you make a retarded monkey seem smart.
Are you saying the Green Party isn't made up of Greenpeace hippie dopesmokers?
Yes, 50% of Saanich/Gulf are not hippie dope smokers... neither are Nanaimo voters... nor are the east coast voters.
The Green platform is insane pot-fueled mayhem, they want to raise spending by 70 billion a year while somehow also dismantling the oil industry which is the driving force of our economy and gov tax revenues. They want to decimate the only province that isn't a have-not. They are mentally retarded.
Thanks Drunken Retarded Monkey Boy.... your political insight is useful as always. ::)
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No... I’m far from the smartest anything.... the problem is you make a retarded monkey seem smart.
Yes, 50% of Saanich/Gulf are not hippie dope smokers... neither are Nanaimo voters... nor are the east coast voters.
Thanks Drunken Retarded Monkey Boy.... your political insight is useful as always. ::)
They're either hippie dopesmokers or mentally retarded.
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Well we agree that Michael Chong seems like a reasonable conservative. Maybe we should send books to all the other CPC members.
I may vote Conservative if Chong was leader (depending on my local candidate).
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Maybe i'm wrong, i mean i'm a retarded monkey and i'm high on dope, so that should have meant i voted green, which i didn't.
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I may vote Conservative if Chong was leader (depending on my local candidate).
Odds are good your local CPC candidate would be some kind of racist xenophobe homophobe. That's the problem with the CPC, they're just filled with a lot of backwoods nutters.
Conservatism isn't a terrible ideology if you can get it right, for some reason the GOP and CPC/PC's rarely can. Too many backwoods nutters i guess. Too many social conservative bible-thumpers like Scheer and Harper and Stockwell.
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Maybe i'm wrong, i mean i'm a retarded monkey and i'm high on dope, so that should have meant i voted green, which i didn't.
Well you're half right.
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Odds are good your local CPC candidate would be some kind of racist xenophobe homophobe. That's the problem with the CPC, they're just filled with a lot of backwoods nutters.
Conservatism isn't a terrible ideology if you can get it right, for some reason the GOP and CPC/PC's rarely can. Too many backwoods nutters i guess. Too many social conservative bible-thumpers like Scheer and Harper and Stockwell.
I don’t know about my CPC candidate, but the North Island candidate is a totally reasonable business guy. Honestly, I don’t know why people like that join the Cons with all the nutters in the party pulling the strings.
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I wonder if now Scheer gets dumped.
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I wonder if now Scheer gets dumped.
He has to.... this was his election to lose. And their strategy was to appeal to the worst of his base.... climate deniers and social conservatives.
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He has to.... this was his election to lose. And their strategy was to appeal to the worst of his base.... climate deniers and social conservatives.
So who's next? Lisa Raitt has lost here seat.
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He has to.... this was his election to lose. And their strategy was to appeal to the worst of his base.... climate deniers and social conservatives.
Oh yes, he has to go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Elliott
Why not Christine ???? :D
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So who's next? Lisa Raitt has lost here seat.
Michael Chong, I hope.
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Oh yes, he has to go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Elliott
Why not Christine ???? :D
Who the hell is that?
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Big gains for BQ tonight... gains for CPC, but not as much as some expected.
Liberals losing at present 28 seats vs last election, which is not as much as I expected.
Green Party remains a total non-factor, despite doubling their seat count.
Bad night for NDP, except in the fact that they'll have the numbers to form a coalition with the Liberals, if the Liberals are interested. I imagine the Liberals will attempt to govern vote-to-vote, as Stephen Harper did when he had a minority.
Jody Wilson-Reybould is leading her riding at the moment.
Last I saw, the Conservatives were actually leading the popular vote, in spite of winning fewer seats. The CPC swept all 3 prairie provinces, except for 2 NDP seats, Edmonton-Strathcona and Northern Manitoba.
Super-fractured regional map. National unity and regional fighting will be back bigger than ever.
-k
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“CBC calls a Liberal minority government.... which also happens to be Trudeau’s favourite costume”
-this Hour has 22 Mins.
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CBC declaring JWR the winner in Vancouver Granville now.
Jagmeet takes the stage. Starts with indigenous territory acknowledgement. ::)
-k
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Jagmeet takes the stage. Starts with indigenous territory acknowledgement. ::)
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That’s a very standard thing to do down here on the coast. Not unusual.
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I know, I just find it cringey.
-k
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Jagmeet's wife looks like she is barely old enough to vote. She's actually 27.
-k
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Harper and Mulroney did the same. In spite of party mantra, conservatives are not fiscally responsible.
Harper ran up the debt by 48 billion in the last four years when he had a majority. JT will have run it up by 71 billion in his first four. He is forecasting over 20 billion a year in the next four. That’s with no wars or recessions. Placating the NDP to stay in power will make it even more expensive.
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I know, I just find it cringey.
-k
Ah don't worry, Justin and Jagmeet will work together to get things done and Scheer will be kicking horse turds down the road. Probably the best we could have hoped for.
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This is pretty boring. I'm looking forward to both Scheer and Trudeau. I'm really interested to see how they both spin their large failures as positive.
Scheer will I suppose talk about gaining seats or winning the popular vote (which is thoroughly meaningless in our system) but the truth is that if he wasn't such a dud this election should have been a gimme considering all the gifts Trudeau gave him.
For Trudeau I imagine he'll attempt some fake humility, some fake regional outreach, probably some "I have listened, and I will do better." The truth is, the only reason the Liberals didn't win another majority is Trudeau's own ham-handed idiocy.
-k
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It looks like the Pilsbury Pol-Boy is approaching the podium!
-k
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And in Montreal, Smokey McPott is approaching the podium as well!
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And in Montreal, Smokey McPott is approaching the podium as well!
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Who?
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Trudeau starting his speech 90 seconds into Scheer's speech has got to be deliberate, right?
-k
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And in a mutual salute to their tone deafness, the 3 major party leaders all talk at the same time.
The next PM after this will probably be great.
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Trudeau starting his speech 90 seconds into Scheer's speech has got to be deliberate, right?
-k
Oh yes. No class at all. This was a bitter campaign.
Scheer is history...
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For Trudeau I imagine he'll attempt some fake humility, some fake regional outreach, probably some "I have listened, and I will do better."
Well, he did at least shout-out to Quebec and the prairies, but he's too stoned to attempt the fake humility.
-k
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Well, he did at least shout-out to the prairies, but he's too stoned to attempt the fake humility.
-k
I was hoping for a little more humility also. But the arrogance is too forceful to bridle I guess. This may mean he can't work with others... Jagmeet wants national pharmacare...
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Rosemary Barton having coughing fit on the air might be the high point of this broadcast.
Rosemary... do you need an ambulance?
-k
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The alt-right wingnuts are losing it...
And the sad folks who thought the polls were fake are crying in their beer...
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And now, while the paramedics attempt to revive Rosemary, let's hear a replay of Scheer.
-k
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Conservatives received 5.6 million votes in 2015, and about 5.8 million tonight.
Liberals had 6.9 million votes last election, and about 5.5 million this election. Losing 1.4 million votes and 28 seats is a pretty strong rebuke, and everybody knows where the blame for that belongs.
-k
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Well, he did at least shout-out to Quebec and the prairies, but he's too stoned to attempt the fake humility.
-k
Haha, that reminded me of 2015 when he was so plastered giving his speech. I forgot all about that.
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Haha, that reminded me of 2015 when he was so plastered giving his speech. I forgot all about that.
Gawd, what a couple of sore LOSERS. Maybe go sleep it off. hahaha
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The NDP got double the number of votes than the Bloc but 3/4 of the vote. The Conservatives got the most number of votes but 30 seats less.
My takeaway from this election was how the biggest benefactors of FPTP are Liberals and any reason they gave for going back on their electoral promise was just proven BS tonight.
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I've never seen such a close race as in my riding. All night we've been flickering back and forth between Con/NDP most of the night with less than 100 votes. The biggest gap I saw was 273.
Crappy, looks like the anti-choice Conservative is going to pull ahead at the last minute. :(
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A number of the panelists on the CBC broadcast expressed their disappointment with the leaders' speeches. Chantal Hebert, Peter Mansbridge, Andrew Coyne, Bob Rae... all more or less said that based on their remarks tonight, neither Scheer nor Trudeau got the message the voters sent them.
-k
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A number of the panelists on the CBC broadcast expressed their disappointment with the leaders' speeches. Chantal Hebert, Peter Mansbridge, Andrew Coyne, Bob Rae... all more or less said that based on their remarks tonight, neither Scheer nor Trudeau got the message the voters sent them.
-k
That’s because they’re the two natural governing parties. At least that’s the smoke that’s been blown up their ass for 20 years.
However, Canadians do keep proving the ass-blowers right. Mad at Libs? Vote Cons. Cons corrupt? Vote Libs. Libs corrupt? Vote Cons..... rinse ... repeat.
This a-hole is going to call an election the second the Libs get 40ish% in the polls.
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Congrats to you on having a general election that didn't last two years (like ours do). Now what? Does a minority government have to form a coalition, like in most parliamentary democracies?
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I assume everyone including the dead came out in Alberta to vote CPC yesterday. Makes sense if there were parties literally trying to put many of them out of work.
I assume all of the Hillary supporters will be clamoring for years that Scheer is our true PM based on the popular vote. All hail the Right Honourable Dimples McDumbass.
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There were Hillary supporters in the Canadian election? Huh?
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There were Hillary supporters in the Canadian election? Huh?
I'm referring to people on this forum who have been whining about the popular vote the last few years.
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A number of the panelists on the CBC broadcast expressed their disappointment with the leaders' speeches. Chantal Hebert, Peter Mansbridge, Andrew Coyne, Bob Rae... all more or less said that based on their remarks tonight, neither Scheer nor Trudeau got the message the voters sent them.
-k
More importantly, Trudeau didn't. He started out as this charming boy wonder, though I never bought it. He will end with an image of an entitled frat boy who acts sensitive to pick up women.
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I'm referring to people on this forum who have been whining about the popular vote the last few years.
But I guess the Liberals will need to find a majority of the popular vote by gaining support in the House of Commons in order to become legitimate. So it's a totally different system that accounts for less than majority support and forces the party to go and get it. I'm surprised you didn't understand the difference.
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Big gains for BQ tonight... gains for CPC, but not as much as some expected.
Liberals losing at present 28 seats vs last election, which is not as much as I expected.
Green Party remains a total non-factor, despite doubling their seat count.
Bad night for NDP, except in the fact that they'll have the numbers to form a coalition with the Liberals, if the Liberals are interested. I imagine the Liberals will attempt to govern vote-to-vote, as Stephen Harper did when he had a minority.
Jody Wilson-Reybould is leading her riding at the moment.
Last I saw, the Conservatives were actually leading the popular vote, in spite of winning fewer seats. The CPC swept all 3 prairie provinces, except for 2 NDP seats, Edmonton-Strathcona and Northern Manitoba.
Super-fractured regional map. National unity and regional fighting will be back bigger than ever.
-k
You missed Winnipeg - the Liberals and NDP won a total of 6 seats in Winnipeg.
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Well, I called it in Fredericton! Our Liberal incumbent actually fell to third place behind the Green candidate who won and the Conservative.
Funny enough, the NDP pretty much collapsed in NB and they still beat the PPC in our riding.
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Well there it is! Captain Election Reform won the House and yet lost the Popular vote.
I'm not bitching, he won the GTA riding he needed. Scheer was not ready to become PM.
But I hope no Liberals are here today to Spike the football. That election was not a ringing endorsement for JT.
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Congrats to you on having a general election that didn't last two years (like ours do). Now what? Does a minority government have to form a coalition, like in most parliamentary democracies?
Coalitions are very rare because they are a government formed by two parties. To form a coalition with the NDP would mean giving them some cabinet positions. You can guarantee Trudeau won’t even consider it. They will look for support on a case by case basis. Look for even higher deficits because that support will have a price.
Our last actual coalition federal government was during WW1.
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It would have been a coalition if the Cons had won more seats. In this case, they just need a few votes on a case by case basis.
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But I guess the Liberals will need to find a majority of the popular vote by gaining support in the House of Commons in order to become legitimate. So it's a totally different system that accounts for less than majority support and forces the party to go and get it. I'm surprised you didn't understand the difference.
If Liberals team up with the Bloc to pass laws that's still not a majority of the popular vote. I'm surprised you didn't understand the difference.
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It would have been a coalition if the Cons had won more seats. In this case, they just need a few votes on a case by case basis.
If Scheer were a true jerk and the other parties were feeling bonkers the CPC could team up with the NDP and Bloc to form a coalition or some such and have more seats than the LPC and have majority of seats.
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Did Bill Morneau win his seat? That guy is a biatch
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I really like Jagmeet's beard, because it's not one of those super-sculpted and perfectly shaped beards you see all the young hipster men wear. It actually looks like a real beard.
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But I hope no Liberals are here today to Spike the football. That election was not a ringing endorsement for JT.
Quebec was a wash - the seats the NDP lost were the seats the BQ gained... otherwise... weak Andy gained 22 seats - across ALL OF Canada! I'm quite shocked that Scheer couldn't pull it off with his 70% of the Alberta and Saskatchewan votes - shocked I tells ya! ;D
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talkin' up the popular vote... is for losers!
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And in a mutual salute to their tone deafness, the 3 major party leaders all talk at the same time.
The next PM after this will probably be great.
there is a recognized/traditional pecking order in delivering speeches after results are in. Problem is... Jagoff kept going on and on and on - as if he actually won - and then he switched to already running his next campaign! ;D That threw all the timing off. And then... that azzhole Scheer started in with his divisiveness - his bitterness... which I'm sure is what prompted PM Trudeau's posse to bring him on early!
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Quebec was a wash - the seats the NDP lost were the seats the BQ gained... otherwise... weak Andy gained 22 seats - across ALL OF Canada! I'm quite shocked that Scheer couldn't pull it off with his 70% of the Alberta and Saskatchewan votes - shocked I tells ya! ;D
So you do want to spike the football. Shocking!!!
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Did Bill Morneau win his seat? That guy is a biatch
so close!
(https://i.imgur.com/jSNYgg0.png)
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BC_cheque is right, the Liberals will never give up FPP.
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BC_cheque is right, the Liberals will never give up FPP.
member queenmandy85 has repeatedly schooled you PR proponents on its failings - his most recent:
It was the NDP that killed electoral reform by insisting on the crazy PR system. I don't want my Saskatoon MP to be some clown from Toronto chosen by the bagmen in party heaquarters who probably could't find Saskatchewan on a map. PR makes Party affilliation all important and encourages splinter parties. Look at Israel, Germany or Italy where the Flower arranger's Party gets three seats and holds the balance of power.
Think of Weaver and his two members holding BC hostage and see that as a permanent situation and then imagine the Government trying to introduce dramatic measures to fight climate change with six members of the Tar Sands Democratic Party holding the balance of power.
If you want electoral reform, have run-off elections in those ridings where the leading candidate did not get a majority. We cannot fight climate change without a majority government.
look no further than the Quebec centric BQ party... working to... eventually, hold the rest of Canada ransom!
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talkin' up the popular vote... is for losers!
67% of the country opposes the Liberals. ;D
I remember those signs in the Harper years.
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member queenmandy85 has repeatedly schooled you PR proponents on its failings - his most recent:
So Trudeau was just plain ignorant when he promised to get rid of it.
look no further than the Quebec centric BQ party... working to... eventually, hold the rest of Canada ransom!
Nope, the Liberals and the NDP form a majority. The Liberals don't need the BQ.
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BC_cheque is right, the Liberals will never give up FPP.
Nor will the CPC. And the all party committee that Trudeau sent across the country found there was no agreement on reforming the system.
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so close!
BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Did anyone every tell you that you look cute in a cheerleader outfit. ;D :D
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talkin' up the popular vote... is for losers!
It really is for losers!
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Nor will the CPC. And the all party committee that Trudeau sent across the country found there was no agreement on reforming the system.
The CPC has never promised to get rid of FPP. Trudeau didn't need an agreement, he had a majority. He dumped it because he realized he had the most to gain by not implementing a form of PR. He wouldn't even put it to a referendum as two different BC governments have done.
If the seat distribution had reflected the popular vote we would be looking at a Conservative minority this morning. In that case we might actually have seen a coalition government because the only way Trudeau could have remained PM would have been to form a coalition with the NDP.
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So Trudeau was just plain ignorant when he promised to get rid of it.
Nope, the Liberals and the NDP form a majority. The Liberals don't need the BQ.
PM Trudeau/Liberals kept 92% of promises made... keep whining about electoral reform! Try to target the CPC for insisting on a referendum... and the NDP for insisting on the failed PR system... and the Parliamentary committees and public consult that arrived at NO consensus. Start there, hey!
apparently you can't think beyond this election - my hypothetical BQ ransom holding wasn't particular to this result.
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JMT's "far right westerners" came out in droves to elect zero members of the PPC last night.
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If the seat distribution had reflected the popular vote...
there are several different flavours of PR - if you really want to speak from (some minuscule degree of) authority, detail which one you're speaking to and just how you're arriving at your result - yes? But before you do that, perhaps accept that there are significant problems with PR vis-a-vis "fringe elements"
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PM Trudeau/Liberals kept 92% of promises made... keep whining about electoral reform! Try to target the CPC for insisting on a referendum... and the NDP for insisting on the failed PR system... and the Parliamentary committees and public consult that arrived at NO consensus. Start there, hey!
apparently you can't think beyond this election - my hypothetical BQ ransom holding wasn't particular to this result.
“We are committed to ensuring that the 2015 election will be the last federal election using first-past-the-post.”
Ignorant or a liar? Your choice.
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The CPC has never promised to get rid of FPP. Trudeau didn't need an agreement, he had a majority. He dumped it because he realized he had the most to gain by not implementing a form of PR. He wouldn't even put it to a referendum as two different BC governments have done.
If the seat distribution had reflected the popular vote we would be looking at a Conservative minority this morning. In that case we might actually have seen a coalition government because the only way Trudeau could have remained PM would have been to form a coalition with the NDP.
Trudeau claimed he preferred a ranked ballot but as I say, he didn't get support for reform. And a Liberal/NDP coalition I think is exactly what you will now see. Canadians don't want to have to head back to the ballot box any time soon.
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there are several different flavours of PR - if you really want to speak from (some minuscule degree of) authority, detail which one you're speaking to and just how you're arriving at your result - yes? But before you do that, perhaps accept that there are significant problems with PR vis-a-vis "fringe elements"
Ya, ya I live in BC and probably know a lot more about PR than you do. We have that three referendums on the issue.
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“We are committed to ensuring that the 2015 election will be the last federal election using first-past-the-post.”
Ignorant or a liar? Your choice.
Probably a smart liar. He won a majority with a minority of the votes. Don't mess with success.
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Trudeau claimed he preferred a ranked ballot but as I say, he didn't get support for reform. And a Liberal/NDP coalition I think is exactly what you will now see. Canadians don't want to have to head back to the ballot box any time soon.
Nice revisionist history. I just posted his quote, it didn't claim to have any preferences, just to get rid of FPP.
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Ya, ya I live in BC and probably know a lot more about PR than you do. We have that three referendums on the issue.
You and kimmy are uncharacteristically rational for being from BC. There's hope for this country yet! Must be all that fresh air from the mountains that keeps the reefer out of your noses.
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You and kimmy are uncharacteristically rational for being from BC. There's hope for this country yet! Must be all that fresh air from the mountains that keeps the reefer out of your noses.
Thanks for the compliment, kimmy's posts are always to the point, worth reading and often entertaining.
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Ya, ya I live in BC and probably know a lot more about PR than you do. We have that three referendums on the issue.
then you should have no problem answering my questions/request - yes? But really, c'mon man - if your only solace is to rag again on electoral reform... would you have accepted a change to, say... ranked ballot? Well wouldja?
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whaaa! ROFO came out of his cave to offer congrats to PM Trudeau. Apparently, Alberta's Kenney has a presser scheduled for this afternoon - time to stoke the SeparatistSentiment for all the rubes and morans!
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Nice revisionist history. I just posted his quote, it didn't claim to have any preferences, just to get rid of FPP.
There are more than one quote on this issue. As I say JT claimed he preferred ranked ballot.
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then you should have no problem answering my questions/request - yes? But really, c'mon man - if your only solace is to rag again on electoral reform... would you have accepted a change to, say... ranked ballot? Well wouldja?
Try me. But you won't will you. I was never given an option but for the record, the first two referendums in BC, I voted for STV. In the last I voted to keep FPP, not because I wanted it but because the government couldn't have done a worse job of composing the ballot. It gave three choices of PR with two of them having elements that were to be decided later. It then had you rank the choices in a manner which could have changed our method of voting to a system that had only around 15% of eligible voters having it as their first choice. Not good enough.
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There are more than one quote on this issue. As I say JT claimed he preferred ranked ballot.
Not during the campaign, only after he decided not to change anything.
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Not during the campaign, only after he decided not to change anything.
By "campaign" do you mean the most recent one?
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By "campaign" do you mean the most recent one?
No, the last one when he said.
We are committed to ensuring that the 2015 election will be the last federal election using first-past-the-post.
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No, the last one when he said.
Well as discussed, he didn't get support for changing the current system. However I will agree, his preference for ranked ballot would very likely have been just as beneficial for the Liberals as the FPP system.
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CNN is Fake News!
-waldo. :D
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/22/opinions/canada-election-bociurkiw/index.html
(CNN)By any stretch of the imagination, Justin Trudeau, the steward of the family brand, had a humiliating election night.
Not only was Trudeau's Liberal Party forced by voters to accept a demotion to a minority government -- grabbing just 157 of 338 seats in the House of Commons -- but about two-thirds of the country voted against him. His party's share of the popular vote clocked in at just 33.1 % -- less than the 34.4% earned by the rival the Conservative Party of Canada and its leader Andrew Scheer. (Despite receiving a greater percentage of the vote, the Conservative Party picked up 36 fewer seats than the Liberals.)
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Guess what's coming next.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6068132/snc-lavalin-shares-shoot-up-after-liberal-election-win/
The Quebec mafia is alive and well
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Guess what's coming next.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6068132/snc-lavalin-shares-shoot-up-after-liberal-election-win/
The Quebec mafia is alive and well
whaaa! That's huuuuge! Yes - your hurtin' is... alive and well ;D (just ignore those 5 other share increases since Feb, 2019... and the Sept 13th rise more than double that of today)
(https://i.imgur.com/bjqMU9U.png)
by the by, SNC-Lavalin has ~8500 employees across Canada - of which, less than half live/work in Quebec. Accordingly, please adjust your bullshyte "Quebec mafia" talking point - yes?
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900% in a few hours. The DPA is in the bag.
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CNN is Fake News!
-waldo. :D
that's quite the find Boges - an opinion from a nobody never heard from before... didja read the CNN caveat: "The opinions expressed in this commentary are his"
so many opinions: here, have another
(https://i.imgur.com/k7Ve6AV.png)
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900% in a few hours. The DPA is in the bag.
you seem to struggle with percentage calculations! Try 10.5%... over 6 hours ;D
the waldo acknowledges your hurtin' and attempted solace seeking in the weak Andy/CPC fabricated & fake (media driven) scandal
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you seem to struggle with percentage calculations! Try 10.5%... over 6 hours ;D
the waldo acknowledges your hurtin' and attempted solace seeking in the weak Andy/CPC fabricated & fake (media driven) scandal
I did read that wrong but it's closer to 13%.
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If Scheer were a true jerk and the other parties were feeling bonkers the CPC could team up with the NDP and Bloc to form a coalition or some such and have more seats than the LPC and have majority of seats.
No, because they spent years brainwashing the low intellect dupes how illegal that was years ago.
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PM Trudeau/Liberals kept 92% of promises made...
Someone has been studying the propaganda.
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This is probably old news to many here, but apparently another Maxime Bernier ran for the Rhinoceros party in Bernier's home riding. Now that is first class trolling.
People's Party - Maxime Bernier - 16,772
Parti Rhinocéros Party - Maxime Bernier - 1,072
Green Party - Josiane Fortin - 1,415
NDP-New Democratic Party - François Jacques-Côté - 1,799
Conservative - Richard Lehoux - 22,817
Bloc Québécois - Guillaume Rodrigue - 8,355
Liberal - Adam Veilleux - 6,895
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This is probably old news to many here, but apparently another Maxime Bernier ran for the Rhinoceros party in Bernier's home riding. Now that is first class trolling.
People's Party - Maxime Bernier - 16,772
Parti Rhinocéros Party - Maxime Bernier - 1,072
Green Party - Josiane Fortin - 1,415
NDP-New Democratic Party - François Jacques-Côté - 1,799
Conservative - Richard Lehoux - 22,817
Bloc Québécois - Guillaume Rodrigue - 8,355
Liberal - Adam Veilleux - 6,895
So people voted for this person with the same name assuming they were voting for the other one? Wow.
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Not likely, nor would it have made a difference if they did.
By the way - Bernier's utter trouncing and pyrrhic defeat sets a moral baseline for Canada
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If the Libs have a minority government, and they lose one single vote, can that topple them and trigger another election? I checked, and it seems minority governments don't last too long in Canada.
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If the Libs have a minority government, and they lose one single vote, can that topple them and trigger another election? I checked, and it seems minority governments don't last too long in Canada.
They would have to lose a specific type of vote but yes minorities tend not to have long legs.
Two years is the longest one lasted and that was under the current PM's father.
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They would have to lose a specific type of vote but yes minorities tend not to have long legs.
Two years is the longest one lasted and that was under the current PM's father.
So basically, the 2019 election is not the end for Trudeau; it's more like the beginning of the end (or at least the end of the beginning, at best).
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-online-maga-movement-tried-to-take-down-canadas-justin-trudeau-it-fell-short/2019/10/22/0e01e282-f1ef-11e9-89eb-ec56cd414732_story.html
I swear that some people told me I was imagining that.
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Someone has been studying the propaganda.
It was actually an independent analysis - 50% in full and 40% in part.
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Andrew Coyne: The Liberals didn't win the 2019 federal election, they just lost less than the Conservatives
Coyne nails it once again: https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/election-2019/canadian-federal-election-2019-results-justin-trudeau-liberals-andrew-scheer-conservatives
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I would like a new moderate centrist party, a bit to the right of the Liberals, that can compete with the Liberals and aren't filled with bible-thumping conservative wing-nuts.
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I would like a new moderate centrist party, a bit to the right of the Liberals, that can compete with the Liberals and aren't filled with bible-thumping conservative wing-nuts.
I can't imagine you abandoning the wingnuts.
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I can't imagine you abandoning the wingnuts.
Name a wingnut i've supported.
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So basically, the 2019 election is not the end for Trudeau; it's more like the beginning of the end (or at least the end of the beginning, at best).
'end of beginning, beginning of end" sounds like navel gazing to me.
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Name a wingnut i've supported.
I believe he is known as the online "Master Baiter".
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PM Trudeau/Liberals kept 92% of promises made... keep whining about electoral reform! Try to target the CPC for insisting on a referendum... and the NDP for insisting on the failed PR system... and the Parliamentary committees and public consult that arrived at NO consensus. Start there, hey!
Someone has been studying the propaganda.
It was actually an independent analysis - 50% in full and 40% in part.
One way to draw a conclusion on Trudeau’s promise-keeping records is to combine pledges fully met with those partially kept — which gives Trudeau a score of 92 per cent
(https://i.imgur.com/OPOonHV.jpg)
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Coyne nails it once again:
during the election night coverage, nothing was sweeter than to watch Chantal Hebert repeatedly put ConMedia's darling Coyne in his place! Here try this one: Andrew Scheer's narrow vision of conservatism was his party's failing: Robyn Urback
Conservatism in Canada doesn't necessarily look like Andrew Scheer's concept. It doesn't have to, anyway.
Andrew Scheer's version of conservatism... was about as narrow as Conservatism gets, with the obligatory concern about the economy and affordability, and not much else. He made perfunctory statements about the environment and awkwardly dodged questions when asked about social issues.
The result was a candidate who would appeal to a Conservative base, which is not enough to win an election — not in the way we elect our Parliaments, anyway. Earning super-support in concentrated areas — 64 per cent in Saskatchewan or 69 per cent in Alberta — doesn't matter if you can't siphon enough votes away in Ontario, Atlantic Canada and Quebec. And that's hard to do when you make practically no effort to reach voters beyond those who are already loyal.
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whaaa! ROFO came out of his cave to offer congrats to PM Trudeau. Apparently, Alberta's Kenney has a presser scheduled for this afternoon - time to stoke the SeparatistSentiment for all the rubes and morans!
apparently... with a straight face... Jason Kenney put PM Trudeau/Liberals on a 2-year notice to make progress on the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion and to redraft bills like Bill C-69, which he said will be detrimental to Alberta's interests --- if appropriate results (to Kenney) are not realized within that 2 year period, Alberta will hold a referendum on the province's participation in the equalization program! A threat to hold a referendum on the very Harper Conservative equalization formula that he approved of and defended as a former Harper cabinet minister! ;D
on edit: Why equalization is not unfair to Alberta (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-why-equalization-is-not-unfair-to-alberta/) - Trevor Tombe - associate professor of economics at the University of Calgary, and a research fellow at the School of Public Policy
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on edit: Why equalization is not unfair to Alberta (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-why-equalization-is-not-unfair-to-alberta/) - Trevor Tombe - associate professor of economics at the University of Calgary, and a research fellow at the School of Public Policy
Also from waldo:
The Sky is Red: a research paper by professor of natural science at the University of British Colombia
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is it a strong minority - well... is it?
(https://i.imgur.com/gkBMpXo.png)
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Another wall o waldo. Yawn.
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you CPC old stockers don't likee the waldo, right member wilber! ;D
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is it a strong minority - well... is it?
(https://i.imgur.com/gkBMpXo.png)
Doesn't matter. In 2 years the NDP will be tired of propping JT up and we'll be back to the polls.
Always looking for the silver lining in losing the popular vote to that awful dimpled man.
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Doesn't matter. In 2 years the NDP will be tired of propping JT up and we'll be back to the polls.
oh really! The NDP lost 20 seats and has no money... or realistic opportunities to raise any significant amounts. For all the media tire-pumping, Singh/NDP are not positioned to force a confidence vote... any time "soon".
Always looking for the silver lining in losing the popular vote to that awful dimpled man.
the dimpledDoofus managed a staggering... huuuuge... 238K votes more - your silver lining! ;D (hey member Boges, know anything about vote efficiency?)
(https://i.imgur.com/SBMuajh.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/VbwE6Lv.png)
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I would like a new moderate centrist party, a bit to the right of the Liberals, that can compete with the Liberals and aren't filled with bible-thumping conservative wing-nuts.
They existed. They willingly merged with the 'bible-thumping conservative wing-nuts' circa 2003.
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Alberta will hold a referendum on the province's participation in the equalization program!
Since the program is a federal program, I take this as more treasonous threats of separation from Alberta.
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Since the program is a federal program, I take this as more treasonous threats of separation from Alberta.
I heard Jason Kenney in a recent interview claim he has no intent to do that. Let's hope he is sincere.
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Since the program is a federal program, I take this as more treasonous threats of separation from Alberta.
Since when did a referendum become treason in Canada?
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Since when did a referendum become treason in Canada?
A referendum on what? Exactly what will Alberta do to a 100% federal program that it has no control over?
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A referendum on what? Exactly what will Alberta do to a 100% federal program that it has no control over?
I don't know.
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A referendum on what? Exactly what will Alberta do to a 100% federal program that it has no control over?
Depends on the question I guess. Maybe the notwithstanding clause could play into it. Who knows.
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#Wexit????
I’m as far west as you can get, and let me reassure the rest of Canada, this is NOT a thing in “the west”.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-calls-for-unity-as-western-alienation-sentiments-surge-1.5332778
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#Wexit????
I’m as far west as you can get, and let me reassure the rest of Canada, this is NOT a thing in “the west”.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-calls-for-unity-as-western-alienation-sentiments-surge-1.5332778
Hopefully not, it would be a disaster for BC.
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Hopefully not, it would be a disaster for BC.
Well, yeah. Every province is stronger being a part of Canada.
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Well, yeah. Every province is stronger being a part of Canada.
Even Jason Kenney seems to understand that.
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A referendum on what? Exactly what will Alberta do to a 100% federal program that it has no control over?
I think it's Kenney's job to use any leverage he can to get the best outcomes for his province from the federal gov. AB has taken it up the butt for too long while carrying the country on its back. Even if he's not serious, he loses nothing if Trudeau caves and doesn't call his bluff. Even if his proposal isn't even doable it doesn't hurt to sabre-rattle.
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AB has taken it up the butt for too long while carrying the country on its back.
They accidentally have oil. Oh those poor people... having oil on federal crown land and having to pay taxes on all those billions they make from it. So harsh. ::)
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They accidentally have oil. Oh those poor people... having oil on federal crown land and having to pay taxes on all those billions they make from it. So harsh. ::)
Envy?
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Envy?
No. It’s a great thing! People I know from here have worked there.
But whining and sniveling about paying tax on large sums of oil money is sheer stupidity.
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No. It’s a great thing! People I know from here have worked there.
But whining and sniveling about paying tax on large sums of oil money is sheer stupidity.
They aren't whining and snivelling, they want to be able to get market price for what they produce, like every other Canadian.
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They aren't whining and snivelling, they want to be able to get market price for what they produce, like every other Canadian.
“We pay too much transfers to Kweebec is whining and snivelling”.
It’s constant. “We make soooo much money and we don’t want other Canadians to see a red cent” is the Albertan attitude these days.
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#wexit bots are leading the movement.
On Tuesday, CTV News Edmonton received statistics from H+K Strategies that suggest Twitter activity was started by bots and content aggregators. While not all of the accounts were new, the organization said they have all advanced other conservative messages in the past.
"So clearly bots were used to fuel and spur the initial discussion, artificiall inflating the engagement and gaming Twitter's trending function," a company spokesperson said.
. https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/wexit-company-says-bots-aggregators-boosted-alberta-separatist-movement-on-twitter-1.4650507
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#wexit bots are leading the movement.
. https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/wexit-company-says-bots-aggregators-boosted-alberta-separatist-movement-on-twitter-1.4650507
They had a professional Wexit website already set up the next morning.
These sheep are being wilfully led to separatism, by oil companies and other foreign groups. Kenny et. al. had better wake up and have a look at the Frankenstein they are building here.
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Well there it is! Captain Election Reform won the House and yet lost the Popular vote.
I'm not bitching, he won the GTA riding he needed. Scheer was not ready to become PM.
But I hope no Liberals are here today to Spike the football. That election was not a ringing endorsement for JT.
Conservatives who don't care about electoral reform or the representativeness of the house shouldn't be complaining about it. The seat counts do not reflect the way people vote and until electoral reform happens, will not reflect the way people vote. Our House of Representatives are not very representative.
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So people voted for this person with the same name assuming they were voting for the other one? Wow.
Party affiliation is prominent on the ballots. Not saying no one could have by error, but it's incredibly unlikely.
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Just curious -
Do you guys always vote for the same party in each election or do you look at the platforms of each and vote then vote for the one you think is best?
I wonder because so many here in Alberta vote Conservative, no matter what they do or say or accomplish. I know so many that don't even really pay attention to what's going on - then vote Conservative.
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Just curious -
Do you guys always vote for the same party in each election or do you look at the platforms of each and vote then vote for the one you think is best?
I wonder because so many here in Alberta vote Conservative, no matter what they do or say or accomplish. I know so many that don't even really pay attention to what's going on - then vote Conservative.
I personally take a look at platforms before marking an X and that has caused me to also vote Conservative, but only occasionally. Mostly Liberal, because I liked their view of the country, and also NDP because I knew and respected my local rep. and wanted him to have a say.
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“We pay too much transfers to Kweebec is whining and snivelling”.
It’s constant. “We make soooo much money and we don’t want other Canadians to see a red cent” is the Albertan attitude these days.
No it isn’t and it never has been. What pisses them off is having to sell their products at a discount because their fellow Canadians won’t let them access markets and having to pay them for the privilege. Attitudes like yours are a big driver of their discontent.
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Just curious -
Do you guys always vote for the same party in each election or do you look at the platforms of each and vote then vote for the one you think is best?
I wonder because so many here in Alberta vote Conservative, no matter what they do or say or accomplish. I know so many that don't even really pay attention to what's going on - then vote Conservative.
The platforms don't change a ton. By that, I of course don't mean the specifics, but the general differences between the platforms always remain the same. I've switched my vote around parties a number of times. Most recently, the biggest reason I changed my vote was due to the personality of the candidates. I came to realize something watching my local candidates campaign. There are two types of politicians: those who show up to events to be seen and those who show up to events to see their constituents. Jenica Atwin won in Fredericton because she's that special kind of candidate who is gregarious and genuine, but also shows up at events not to be the centre of attention but to actually hear from people and talk to them. That's the kind of representation I want in Ottawa. I want someone who listens to their constituents and truly wants to be a representative, not someone who merely wants the title and status that being an MP brings to them. I want someone who isn't doing it for themselves.
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Depends on the question I guess. Maybe the notwithstanding clause could play into it. Who knows.
Notwithstanding the notwithstanding clause, how do they affect something completely outside of their control. It is like me saying I will dictate what you have for dinner. I guess my only influence is to hold my breath until you have what I say.
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Just curious -
Do you guys always vote for the same party in each election or do you look at the platforms of each and vote then vote for the one you think is best?
I wonder because so many here in Alberta vote Conservative, no matter what they do or say or accomplish. I know so many that don't even really pay attention to what's going on - then vote Conservative.
I have switched between NDP and Green. Mostly Green in the last 10 years, or so.
I was semi-excited about Michael Chong in the CPC leadership race and became a member to vote for him! But once he was so far back in the race that there was no hope in hell he'd win, and it was between Scheer and Bernier (both of whom turn my stomach), I asked for my $10 back. I never got a refund. I never voted Con before, nor did I consider it this time.
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No it isn’t and it never has been. What pisses them off is having to sell their products at a discount because their fellow Canadians won’t let them access markets and having to pay them for the privilege. Attitudes like yours are a big driver of their discontent.
Bullshit. They are angry over transfer payments. They even mentioned a referendum about them recently.
I am ambivalent about the pipeline, so I'm not sure what attitude you're talking about.
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Bullshit. They are angry over transfer payments. They even mentioned a referendum about them recently.
I am ambivalent about the pipeline, so I'm not sure what attitude you're talking about.
That's what I said, they are pissed at the RoC blocking access to world markets of their main product and having to pay the RoC for the privilege.
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That's what I said, they are pissed at the RoC blocking access to world markets of their main product and having to pay the RoC for the privilege.
There is no blocking access by the RoC. That's a false narrative.
Oil sands production is at an all time high. They pay based on revenues. They have revenues because they have oil... despite their mismanagement of their own resource.
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That's what I said, they are pissed at the RoC blocking access to world markets of their main product and having to pay the RoC for the privilege.
Access to West Berlin was blocked in 1948-49, perhaps Alberta should fly their gunk out. That is what a real blockade looks like.
Not wanting a polluting pipeline through my backyard or river is very different issue. I agree that we need to move things forward, but blaming the RoC for an industry problem is ridiculous. Pushing pipelines into fragile ecosystems, and dangerous waters like the Northern Gateway to Kitimat is a public relations nightmare caused by an irresponsible industry. Energy East became a disaster when the focus was not to achieve Canadian energy independence, but rather to pump to foreign markets. I have been saying for decades we need a Canadian solution, but we have an industry mostly owned by American, French, and Chinese companies who really don't care about the RoC.
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This was an interesting read.
https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/lawrence-solomon-if-alberta-turns-separatist-the-rest-of-canada-is-in-big-trouble?fbclid=IwAR0HIj3e-4TqjdtuFOLRpaUkGC3kcADGHayG0n8BkLi5EelVAcoNEV04RuM#comments-area
I dont' know if the rest of Canada realizes how discontent Alberta is. There is a growing Wexit contingent - I even have a friend who has been involved and took a position of leadership with the project. I'm not on board with it, but it was an interesting read.
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This was an interesting read.
https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/lawrence-solomon-if-alberta-turns-separatist-the-rest-of-canada-is-in-big-trouble?fbclid=IwAR0HIj3e-4TqjdtuFOLRpaUkGC3kcADGHayG0n8BkLi5EelVAcoNEV04RuM#comments-area
I dont' know if the rest of Canada realizes how discontent Alberta is. There is a growing Wexit contingent - I even have a friend who has been involved and took a position of leadership with the project. I'm not on board with it, but it was an interesting read.
I linked to an article earlier that it's a bunch of bots driving the Wexit nonsense on the internet. If Alberta does want to go, then vote on it and let's negotiate...
By the way, the oil sands are federal jurisdiction ceded to Alberta by an agreement back in 1930. No Province of Alberta in Canada, no agreement. Those would be Canadian resources again.
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This was an interesting read.
https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/lawrence-solomon-if-alberta-turns-separatist-the-rest-of-canada-is-in-big-trouble?fbclid=IwAR0HIj3e-4TqjdtuFOLRpaUkGC3kcADGHayG0n8BkLi5EelVAcoNEV04RuM#comments-area
I dont' know if the rest of Canada realizes how discontent Alberta is. There is a growing Wexit contingent - I even have a friend who has been involved and took a position of leadership with the project. I'm not on board with it, but it was an interesting read.
I support AB and Quebec self-determination, and i'd much rather it happen within Canadian confederation than if they both separated.
Every time a Trudeau is elected as PM, separatism movements flourish and referendum threats pop up. Keep your socialist utopian visions at home and leave the provinces alone.
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/catherine-mckenna-vandalism-office-1.5333420
Hopefully they catch the piece of **** who would do this. This stems directly from conservatives who make climate change and environmental issues personal to “Climate Barbie”.
(https://i.cbc.ca/1.5333485.1571929681!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/catherine-mckenna-ottawa-centre-office-vandalism.jpg)
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Deleted: I must have broken the thread. Sorry :'(
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is it a strong minority - well... is it?
(https://i.imgur.com/gkBMpXo.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZGrm9Wd.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/1jO4PGF.jpg)
election results if every riding were the same size (https://twitter.com/i/videos/1187379866586497025)
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Green votes will be coveted for validation by climate superhero Trudeau. : )
Because of Greens, every party had to have a climate plan, to satisfy their own voters.
It isn't just about numbers.
People are listening to the Greens, and pushing their parties to address climate change more effectively.
Democracy at it's best.
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Green votes will be coveted for validation by climate superhero Trudeau. : )
Because of Greens, every party had to have a climate plan, to satisfy their own voters.
It isn't just about numbers.
People are listening to the Greens, and pushing their parties to address climate change more effectively.
Democracy at it's best.
the Green Party is irrelevant in any confidence voting scenario. Those initial lofty (media fueled) days with the GP seat projections @ 10-to-12 seats crashed to reality with an eventual single seat increase - to 3. Why waldo, why? Well... partly, the GP platform proper and the targeted "Mission Improbable" plan were exposed for their inadequacies, failings and missing practical feasibility. Also, partly, Elizabeth May became a profiled negative 'nutter' influence on the GP. May has contributed but is now long past her 'best before date' - leadership review please!
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338 polling election result analysis: the East-West 'divide' is nothing new... but the most significant 2019 result is one that highlights another division - an urban versus rural divide!
in terms of voting efficiency:
=> the Scheer/CPC 2015-to-2019 vote share increase was, "not at all uniform and, more importantly, did not occur where it was needed".
=> Scheer/CPC increased their vote share in 194 of 338 electoral districts (57%)... but lost ground compared to 2015 in the remaining 144 districts (43%). More pointedly, "out of those 144 districts where the Conservatives lost ground, no fewer than 139 are in Quebec and Ontario. The remaining five are located in B.C.’s Lower Mainland."
=> Quebec and Ontario hold 199 federal electoral districts - compared to 2015, Scheer/CPC lost ground in 70% of districts in the two most populous provinces in the country... 139 of the 199 districts (70%).
=> among the 60 electoral districts with the highest population density in Canada, Scheer/CPC won a grand total of zero of them (Liberals 50, NDP 8, BQ 1, IND 1); as below:
(https://i.imgur.com/QfuYyN9.png)
now this urban/rural divide was a known entity within the Scheer/CPC internal party polling - a clear indication of a likely defeat... and yet, it didn't stop weak Andy & lil' Hamish, till the very end, chest pumping, projecting a win... a majority win no less, and all but pronouncing himself Prime Minister in waiting for the final results!
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Agreed waldo. GTA, Ottawa, Montreal, went strongly Liberal. Add much of the maritimes and that's all she wrote.
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Is anyone else wondering what Trudeau is wearing for Halloween this year??? I bet he goes easy on the makeup...
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Is anyone else wondering what Trudeau is wearing for Halloween this year???
He will be trick or treating as a Conservative - very scary indeed.
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Is anyone else wondering what Trudeau is wearing for Halloween this year??? I bet he goes easy on the makeup...
He could just go as himself.