Canadian Politics Today

Beyond Canada => American Politics => Topic started by: Granny on June 26, 2019, 12:34:16 am


Title: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Granny on June 26, 2019, 12:34:16 am
This Is What Solidarity Looks Like,' Says Ocasio-Cortez, as Wayfair Workers Vow Walkout to Protest Company for Working With Child Detention Centers

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/06/25/what-solidarity-looks-says-ocasio-cortez-wayfair-workers-vow-walkout-protest-company

"We believe that the current actions of the United States and their contractors at the southern border do not represent an ethical partnership Wayfair should choose to be a part of."

"This is what solidarity looks like," said Ocasio-Cortez, "a reminder that everyday people have real power, as long as we're brave enough to use it."

Isn't that something.

Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 26, 2019, 05:45:24 am
I started sharing all of the Concentration camp stories in my feed every day.

Everyone should do this - it appears to get results as I see the outrage has moved Congress to pass an emergency bill now.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Granny on June 27, 2019, 06:55:26 am
I started sharing all of the Concentration camp stories in my feed every day.

Everyone should do this - it appears to get results as I see the outrage has moved Congress to pass an emergency bill now.
It's disgraceful.

Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 27, 2019, 05:06:55 pm
The migrants were living in shitty conditions, while the White House wanted more funding for the migrant detention centers and Democrats didn't want to pass such a bill because they didn't want to enable the White House with their migrant detention policies.

The Democrats just buckled to the pressure.  A bill was just passed by the Democrats to send billions in aid for funding of the migrant centers along the border.  Seems clear Trump wasn't going to budge, more kids were going to die and people suffer, what a disgraceful situation.

https://www.apnews.com/6fb698358db346e4b47183ffe0fef8b6

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Democratic-controlled House voted Thursday to send President Donald Trump a bipartisan, Senate-drafted, $4.6 billion measure to care for migrant refugees detained at the southern border, capping a Washington skirmish in which die-hard liberals came out on the losing end in a battle with the White House, the GOP-held Senate and Democratic moderates.

The emergency legislation, required to ease overcrowded, often harsh conditions at U.S. holding facilities for migrants seeking asylum, mostly from Central American nations like Honduras and El Salvador, passed by a bipartisan 305-102 vote. Trump has indicated he’ll sign it into law.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 27, 2019, 05:20:53 pm
I'm wondering how the courts could allow such conditions to persist for so long in the detention centers.  They should have been deemed illegal if not properly funded and conditions were inhumane.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2019, 05:48:37 pm
I'm wondering how the courts could allow such conditions to persist for so long in the detention centers.  They should have been deemed illegal if not properly funded and conditions were inhumane.

Trump doesn't give a **** about courts. He deems himself to be above the law. By law, those kids are not to be kept longer than 72 hours yet some have been locked up for weeks. Of course he will try to blame it on the dems., or anybody else that he can think of.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: TimG on June 27, 2019, 05:57:20 pm
The Democrats just buckled to the pressure.  A bill was just passed by the Democrats to send billions in aid for funding of the migrant centers along the border.  Seems clear Trump wasn't going to budge, more kids were going to die and people suffer, what a disgraceful situation.
IOW, the blame for the conditions in the detention centers rests almost entirely with the democrats. I did not realize that. I guess these clowns really want to see Trump elected again.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2019, 06:04:08 pm
IOW, the blame for the conditions in the detention centers rests almost entirely with the democrats. I did not realize that. I guess these clowns really want to see Trump elected again.

Now that attempt at deflection even surpasses your usual. You're buying Trumps BS now? Sheesh!
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 27, 2019, 06:24:37 pm
IOW, the blame for the conditions in the detention centers rests almost entirely with the democrats.

No you can't just blame it on the Dems.  On one hand the Dems didn't want to fund them, but Trump has also been keeping the migrants in these facilities under these conditions knowing he doesn't have the funding by congress to do so safely.  And where are the courts in all this?

This is a complete system failure on this issue by all 3 branches of the US government - the executive, legislature, and judiciary.  They are all designed to be a check on each other's authority so stuff like this doesn't happen.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: ?Impact on June 27, 2019, 06:26:15 pm
No you can't just blame it on the Dems.

I think you misread his post, I took it to be sarcasm.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 27, 2019, 09:58:34 pm
If it makes you feel all tingly inside to label them as “concentration camps”, go for it.

It makes not a lick of difference to call them that.  It’s just hyperbole.  Which makes for a weaker argument.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2019, 10:18:37 pm
If it makes you feel all tingly inside to label them as “concentration camps”, go for it.

It makes not a lick of difference to call them that.  It’s just hyperbole.  Which makes for a weaker argument.

I don't think 8 year olds locked in cages looking after 2 year olds makes anybody 'all tingly inside". Unless maybe it doesn't seem to bother you.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: TimG on June 27, 2019, 10:25:36 pm
No you can't just blame it on the Dems.  On one hand the Dems didn't want to fund them, but Trump has also been keeping the migrants in these facilities under these conditions knowing he doesn't have the funding by congress to do so safely.  And where are the courts in all this?
Well it is a thorny knot only made possible by the US system. The president has the authority to handle the migrants and the president decided he wanted to detain them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this policy in principle because lots of countries (including Europe) detain asylum seekers while their cases are being assessed. But Trump has a problem because he did not have the money to provide proper facilities and congress refused to provide funding. So what should happen? Should Trump abandon his completely legitimate policy of detention and just let them go because congress does not provide funding? Should congress be expected to provide funding so Trump can ensure the detention centers have adequate resources?

Trump choose deal with the stalemate by running the centers without adequate funding and we see the results. If the courts did what you said they would be basically handing the dems a political victory which would outrage the many American voters who do not want to see asylum seeks automatically allowed to run free simply because the dems refused to cooperate. Of course, the courts could also order congress to provide funding which would outrage dems that want the centers closed. There is no simple path for court intervention.

Basically, in this story part of the blame lands on the dems who refused funding even after it was clear that Trump was going to detain people no matter what they did. They also deserve credit for belatedly realizing the error of the ways and fixing the problem.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2019, 10:31:45 pm
Well it is a thorny knot only made possible by the US system. The president has the authority to handle the migrants and the president decided he wanted to detain them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this policy in principle because lots of countries (including Europe) detain asylum seekers while their cases are being assessed. But Trump has a problem because he did not have the money to provide proper facilities and congress refused to provide funding. So what should happen? Should Trump abandon his completely legitimate policy of detention and just let them go because congress does not provide funding? Should congress be expected to provide funding so Trump can ensure the detention centers have adequate resources?

Trump choose deal with the stalemate by running the centers without adequate funding and we see the results. If the courts did what you said they would be basically handing the dems a political victory which would outrage the many American voters who do not want to see asylum seeks automatically allowed to run free simply because the dems refused to cooperate. Of course, the courts could also order congress to provide funding which would outrage dems that want the centers closed. There is no simple path for court intervention.

Basically, in this story part of the blame lands on the dems who refused funding even after it was clear that Trump was going to detain people no matter what they did.

I can see you don't understand the concept that congress didn't want to provide funding for Trumps illegally run detention centers until the conditions got so bad they had no choice.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 27, 2019, 10:40:42 pm
I don't think 8 year olds locked in cages looking after 2 year olds makes anybody 'all tingly inside". Unless maybe it doesn't seem to bother you.

Only an idiot could read my post and come to the conclusion “this guy doesn’t care about 8 year olds looking after 2 year olds in cages”. 

But you seem to have comprehension issues a lot lately. 
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Omni on June 27, 2019, 10:49:10 pm
Only an idiot could read my post and come to the conclusion “this guy doesn’t care about 8 year olds looking after 2 year olds in cages”. 

But you seem to have comprehension issues a lot lately.

Maybe only an idiot would suggest that someone calling a spade a spade on such a distressing issue should be accused of feeling "all tingly inside". I think the comprehension issue isn't mine.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 28, 2019, 07:25:07 am
If it makes you feel all tingly inside to label them as “concentration camps”, go for it.

It makes not a lick of difference to call them that.  It’s just hyperbole.  Which makes for a weaker argument.

I'm actually ok with debating the terminology, but only as a prelude to addressing the more important point:

That children are dying in US concentration camps.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Granny on June 28, 2019, 12:25:10 pm
I'm actually ok with debating the terminology, but only as a prelude to addressing the more important point:

That children are dying in US concentration camps.

Sadly, I have to point out that Honduran children, people, in US concentration camps, are there because of Canada.

Canada supports the right-wing Honduran government that is suppressing dissent among mostly Indigenous Peoples, who oppose Canadian mining companies pushing them off their land.

70% of the mines in Honduras are Canadian owned.
The Canadian government has been asked by Canadians with relatives in Honduras to intervene, but refuses.
That silence is complicity, and Canada's complicity was a huge wakeup call to that  small rural Canadian community.

Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: ?Impact on June 28, 2019, 01:01:23 pm
70% of the mines in Honduras are Canadian owned.
The Canadian government has been asked by Canadians with relatives in Honduras to intervene, but refuses.
That silence is complicity, and Canada's complicity was a huge wakeup call to that  small rural Canadian community.

What is the role of the Canadian government, or any government, in these cases? I think far more effective would be consumer led boycotts, etc. against the companies. That has had more impact on companies like Nike, Apple, and others than the US government ever has.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Granny on July 01, 2019, 10:12:45 am
What is the role of the Canadian government, or any government, in these cases?
Canada supports the right-wing government of Honduras  that was installed via fraudulent elections ... because ...

As author and activist Yves Engler has highlighted, “A number of major Canadian corporations, notably Gildan and Goldcorp, were unhappy with some modest social democratic reforms implemented by [President] Zelaya.”

Quote
I think far more effective would be consumer led boycotts, etc. against the companies. That has had more impact on companies like Nike, Apple, and others than the US government ever has.
Get back to us about how that goes ...
I think interfering with mining companies ability to raise funds in Canada is more effective.

Or maybe stop electing Canadian governments that support military regimes in other countries that push Indigenous people off their land to build Canadian mining operations.
Same story, different countries.
Canada's economic reliance on extraction industries is genocide at home and worldwide.
International Canadian mining companies have the worst record of Human Rights violations in the world.
We're experts: Canada exports genocide against Indigenous Peoples ...

long, well-established history of horrific and systemic human rights abuses at Canadian mine sites across the globe. Reports by respected organizations like Amnesty International, Mining Watch Canada, Human Rights Watch, Oxfam, the United Nations and countless others have detailed environmental and human rights abuses. Those include targeted assassinations, gang ****, violence against unarmed protesters, and the use of slave labour. Yet there are rarely any consequences for companies where they are headquartered and allowed to raise most of their money – namely, in Canada.
Successive Canadian governments have recognized there’s a problem but have responded with policies and oversight bodies that are powerless by design.


Pretty words on paper ... and the genocide carries on ... 'the Canadian way'.

Happy Canada Day. Lol
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: cybercoma on July 02, 2019, 05:21:52 pm
If it makes you feel all tingly inside to label them as “concentration camps”, go for it.

It makes not a lick of difference to call them that.  It’s just hyperbole.  Which makes for a weaker argument.
Hyerbole? Not even close.....

https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2019-07/OIG-19-51-Jul19_.pdf
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 02, 2019, 06:48:08 pm
And what is that argument?  Basically people are demanding humane treatment.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 02, 2019, 09:47:56 pm
What is the role of the Canadian government, or any government, in these cases? I think far more effective would be consumer led boycotts, etc. against the companies. That has had more impact on companies like Nike, Apple, and others than the US government ever has.

Depends how the companies are behaving there.  There's ie: Chinese companies with resource extraction/mining in Canada.  Honduras obviously let Canadian companies into the country, and could charge them whatever they want for access to the mines.  Is this a Canadian problem, or problem with Honduras government, or both, or not a problem at all.  All depends on the situation.
Title: Re: Concentration Camps - Wayfair Walkout?
Post by: Granny on July 04, 2019, 12:09:23 am
Depends how the companies are behaving there.  There's ie: Chinese companies with resource extraction/mining in Canada.  Honduras obviously let Canadian companies into the country, and could charge them whatever they want for access to the mines.  Is this a Canadian problem, or problem with Honduras government, or both, or not a problem at all.  All depends on the situation.
In the three countries of the Triangle, at least 17 deaths have been directly linked to the corporations.

Two reports, The “Canada Brand”: Violence and Canadian Mining Companies in Latin America (by the Justice and Corporate Accountability Project of Osgoode Law School), and The Impact of Canadian Mining in Latin America and Canada’s Responsibility (by the Working Group on Mining and Human Rights in Canada) both amply document the actions of the mining companies and their responsibility in the violence.