Canadian Political Events

Federal Politics => Canadian Politics => Topic started by: waldo on March 09, 2019, 03:39:08 am

Title: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 09, 2019, 03:39:08 am
for milquetoastScheer - where does the bland end and the timid/feeble begin?

on display now: the stark contrast between a real leader U.S. Sen. McCain's countering response to a conspiracy and that of Scheer's spineless refusal at a town hall to callout and correct a profound & debunked conspiracy theory against the Clinton Foundation as it was being used to attack PM Trudeau... Scheer choosing instead to leverage it further! (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scheer-pizzagate-townhall-1.5048256) A story that the NP and G&M, somehow, haven't found time to carry yet - go figure.

https://youtu.be/BN97OE-g4ME  https://youtu.be/jrnRU3ocIH4

at the height of a conspiracy movement claiming U.S. President Obama was not a natural-born American citizen and therefore ineligible for the U.S. presidency, a real leader, U.S. Sen. McCain before hundreds of supporters & national media, challenged its premise in an exchange that came to be viewed as a defining moment in his political career:


and now we get the weasel comeback from scurrying CPC/Scheer spokepersons attempting to attribute Scheer's response to his not hearing the single word "Pizzagate"... a monumental weasel comeback that, in itself, ignores the same town hall questioner's words stating, "JT gave the Clinton Foundation $600 million - while claiming the Clinton Foundation's participation in child-trafficking & child-sacrifice"!

just who is the real Scheer? This weak-kneed, spineless guy? ... the same guy who, for weeks on end, falsely portrayed the Liberal government's support for the UN Global Compact on Migration - using it as a purposeful wedge issue to falsely portray how that support would influence Canada's immigration system? ... the same guy who seems to have no qualms in attending a rally that included white nationalists and members of prominent far-right anti-immigrant hate groups? That guy?

like that part of the Scheer town hall audience that applauded the Clinton Foundation conspiracy being used to attack PM Trudeau => Scheer vs. Bernier... a key battle for that part of the voter base - oh my!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on March 09, 2019, 09:30:48 am

Looked him up again... really a bland nothing.  I can't understand why these underwhelming people keep getting nominated. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on March 09, 2019, 10:33:30 am
Looked him up again... really a bland nothing.  I can't understand why these underwhelming people keep getting nominated.

Agreed, the biggest thing Trudeau has going for him right now is the quality of his opposition.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on March 09, 2019, 12:04:51 pm
Agreed, the biggest thing Trudeau has going for him right now is the quality of his opposition.
I think we need to rethink the criteria we use to judge leaders. It seems like "charismatic" leaders are either like Trudeau or Obama have no substance because they spend all their hours building and maintaining the image of charisma rather than working on the stuff needed to govern. Or they are extremists like Trump or Bernier or Ford that push simplistic but unworkable policy prescriptions for complex problems and tend to bristle at the notion that government means collaboration.

Personally, I like a "milquetoast" leader if that means the leader is quietly building consensus towards pragmatic solutions to the problems that face us. Toronto has certainly benefited from the "milquetoast" Tory after the insanity of the "charismatic" Rob Ford.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 09, 2019, 12:08:58 pm
Looked him up again... really a bland nothing.  I can't understand why these underwhelming people keep getting nominated.

the bland shot is an easy one - why I've started to somewhat regularly highlight milquetoastScheer's blandBrand . Of course going below the superficial is a real testament to the realMan - and correspondingly to the party he would presume to lead.

in this case, Scheer couldn't find the balls to counter the conspiracy slam being used against PM Trudeau... to be seen before the town hall faithful standing up for Trudeau by simply countering the statements. Instead Scheer chose to effectively endorse them even to the point of leveraging them to allow him to further attack. That's more than bland... much, much more!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on March 09, 2019, 12:16:02 pm
I think we need to rethink the criteria we use to judge leaders. It seems like "charismatic" leaders are either like Trudeau or Obama have no substance because they spend all their hours building and maintaining the image of charisma rather than working on the stuff needed to govern. Or they are extremists like Trump or Bernier or Ford that push simplistic but unworkable policy prescriptions for complex problems and tend to bristle at the notion that government means collaboration.

Personally, I like a "milquetoast" leader if that means the leader is quietly building consensus towards pragmatic solutions to the problems that face us. Toronto has certainly benefited from the "milquetoast" Tory after the insanity of the "charismatic" Rob Ford.

I prefer a policy wonk as well but I'm still not impressed by any of them.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: kimmy on March 09, 2019, 01:12:43 pm
Pretty unimpressed with Scheer's performance during the SNC business (or at any time before that, really.)  Lisa Raitt has seemed like the real opposition leader here.


I gather that the waldo is already in election campaign mode.

 -k
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 09, 2019, 01:25:04 pm
Pretty unimpressed with Scheer's performance during the SNC business (or at any time before that, really.)  Lisa Raitt has seemed like the real opposition leader here.


I gather that the waldo is already in election campaign mode.

no, my marching order for today didn't come from the war-room - stay tuned! I kid, I kid..... In any case Raitt has no shortage of baggage, ala HarperDays - they should definitely trot her out more!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on March 09, 2019, 01:58:34 pm
Toronto has certainly benefited from the "milquetoast" Tory after the insanity of the "charismatic" Rob Ford.

There is no comparison between Tory and Sheer. I wouldn't vote for either, but they are miles apart.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 09, 2019, 02:55:55 pm
since Scheer chose to, effectively, propagate the Clinton Foundation conspiracy, a fact for Andy to factor into his mighty display of cowardice: to the statement that, "Trudeau gave $600 million to the Clinton Foundation", it was actually the Liberal government representing Canada’s leadership on sexual and reproductive health and rights (https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affairs/news/2017/07/canada_s_leadershiponsexualandreproductivehealthandrights.html): providing $20 million in funding; specifically:

(https://i.imgur.com/kOwhVgy.png)

 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 09, 2019, 04:54:10 pm
wtf is milquetoast?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on March 09, 2019, 04:56:32 pm
wtf is milquetoast
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspar_Milquetoast
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: poochy on March 09, 2019, 08:20:56 pm
Scheer is just a guy, bland, as much as Trudeau may stammer I find Scheer even harder to listen to, not that i listen to either of them very often.  Trudeau only has to make sure he stays scandal fre...

oops
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 10, 2019, 12:32:03 am
for milquetoastScheer - where does the bland end and the timid/feeble begin?

and now we get the weasel comeback from scurrying CPC/Scheer spokepersons attempting to attribute Scheer's response to his not hearing the single word "Pizzagate"... a monumental weasel comeback that, in itself, ignores the same town hall questioner's words stating, "JT gave the Clinton Foundation $600 million - while claiming the Clinton Foundation's participation in child-trafficking & child-sacrifice"!

oh my! There's now a slightly revamped response from Scheer himself; now claiming he didn't hear the single word "Pizzagate"... and that all he did hear was, "Trudeau giving $600 million to the Clinton Foundation"!

Quote from: PM Justin Trudeau
Trudeau didn’t accept the explanation, however, saying that Scheer showed “that he simply doesn’t hear or doesn’t notice intolerant comments.”

“Someone made just a terrible comment about a bit of fake news — that is absolutely heinous in its substance — called Pizzagate,” Trudeau said during an armchair discussion at a Catholic teachers association meeting in Ottawa on Saturday.

    “And [Scheer’s] response was, ‘Oh I didn’t hear that comment in the question.'”

Trudeau went on to attack Scheer for failing to acknowledge “some of the fringe elements” among the convoy of truckers who drove from Alberta to Parliament Hill in Ottawa to protest the lack of progress on pipeline projects.

“If there’s one thing we need to do as Canadians, [it is to] be vigilant about the intolerant and extremist voices coming from all sides and stay true to the values of respect and openness that have served us so well as a country,” Trudeau said.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on March 10, 2019, 08:29:39 am
So he's a shitty listener.  Hmmm...
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: kimmy on March 10, 2019, 11:50:37 am
So he's a shitty listener.  Hmmm...

He's not. He's lying. He heard every word.  You can see see his discomfort as he listens to a question. He's thinking "how do I answer this without getting into an argument with a crazy-person?"

Scheer chose to use the question as a way to criticize Trudeau's social investments, while ignoring the conspiracy elements entirely.  I think that's the path of least resistance in a situation like that.


All three leaders have had awkward moments at townhall meetings.

Trudeau had the encounter with the rambling girl who went on and on... he interrupted her with the "peoplekind" quip, which became well-publicized.  People used it as a way of claiming that Trudeau is politically-correct to the point of absurdity. But in fact Trudeau made a joke to interrupt a rambling speaker and regain control of the situation so he could respond to her and move on to a more coherent question.

And of course Jagmeet Singh had the encounter with the crazy-lady at his townhall who went on a rant about Sharia and the Muslim Brotherhood. He handled that situation very effectively.

And Scheer.. I think he tried to deal with a conspiracy kook in as low-key a way as possible. I think his handling of that situation was ok, but his response afterward-- "I didn't hear the question"-- is seriously weak.   A better explanation as to why he didn't confront the conspiracy theorist would have been "I didn't want to acknowledge the conspiracy theory or give it any more publicity by responding to those claims, which are completely ridiculous."

 -k
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on March 10, 2019, 01:18:15 pm
...but his response afterward-- "I didn't hear the question"-- is seriously weak.   A better explanation as to why he didn't confront the conspiracy theorist would have been "I didn't want to acknowledge the conspiracy theory or give it any more publicity by responding to those claims, which are completely ridiculous."

 -k

Well, I bought it.  Of course I give people the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: poochy on March 10, 2019, 09:17:56 pm
i dont think we should judge anyone when by being put on the spot by a nutter, most decent people would see it as that, someone thinking this is significant says more about them, i never heard of this until now, still dont know or care what it is.  Asking why did you support Brexit for example, would be more valid.  Even if you can take a principled stand on the freedom of choice its a stupid move for the UK imo, and an opinion that is more easily exploitable.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 10, 2019, 10:17:07 pm
This is weird story.

If Scheer was asked a question with something to do with Nazis and he doesn't make a point to denounce Nazis, does that make him a Nazi sympathizer?  How did this story get in the news?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyIMKiWpdU4
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 11, 2019, 11:06:44 am
is this the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?

the parallel running thread 'Soldiers of Odin' inspired the waldo to revisit a fall event; one that subsequently showed Andy's deft ineptitude ... the event itself had PM Trudeau giving a speech in rural Quebec; a speech in which PM Trudeau directly confronted a heckler during her purposely staged "protest" where she repeatedly interrupted to demand a “refund” on money spent on “illegal immigrants.”:

Quote
“Ok, Madame,” Trudeau responded. “This intolerance towards immigrants has no room in Canada.”

“Your racism has no place here,” he added.

which solicited a next day Scheer tweet-storm defending the heckler in an attack on PM Trudeau/Liberals:

(https://i.imgur.com/3ZxZugj.png)

the heckler subsequently self-identified herself and has been connected with a number of far-right extremist groups, including groups called the Front Patriotique du Québec and Storm Alliance... an "offshoot of the Soldiers of Odin".

well done Andy Scheer! Your quality is Job 1
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 11, 2019, 11:24:50 am
Looks like Scheer is borrowing a page from the Trump playbook. Quelle surprise!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on March 11, 2019, 12:41:02 pm
This is weird story.

If Scheer was asked a question with something to do with Nazis and he doesn't make a point to denounce Nazis, does that make him a Nazi sympathizer?  How did this story get in the news?


Your hypothetical Nazi:

Nazi - "Because the Nazis were correct in their extermination of the Jews, shouldn't we have tighter border security to keep Jews out"?
Scheer - "Justin Trudeau's response to border security has been very weak.  As PM, I will keep out all undesirable elements"


Should sheer denounce Nazism in this hypothetical case?

The answer is a resounding and obvious YES!!!  YES he should!!!

Scheer:  "I didn't hear the Jew part...."
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 11, 2019, 05:06:15 pm
Looks like Scheer is borrowing a page from the Trump playbook. Quelle surprise!

Questioning our immigration policy?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 11, 2019, 05:16:01 pm
Questioning our immigration policy?

Do you support Faith Goldy or "United We Roll" also?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on March 11, 2019, 05:22:19 pm
This is weird story.

If Scheer was asked a question with something to do with Nazis and he doesn't make a point to denounce Nazis, does that make him a Nazi sympathizer?  How did this story get in the news?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyIMKiWpdU4

The question had a built-in assumption that the Clintons were running a child sex ring and Trudeau was contributing money to it.

If he had said: "Mr Scheer, since the Clintons make their fortune with child rape, do you believe Trudeau should be supporting that ?"

You might expect the leader to say something.  Believe it or not there are a lot of people who are shocked if he speaks up against Pizzagate as being real.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 11, 2019, 05:28:17 pm
Do you support Faith Goldy or "United We Roll" also?

No to the former, I don't know much about the latter.

Why?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 11, 2019, 05:40:19 pm
No to the former, I don't know much about the latter.

Why?

Andrew Scheer seems to know them.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/a3bjb4/andrew-scheer-criticized-for-support-of-united-we-roll-convoy

Scheer spoke at the same rally as Faith Goldy, the notorious white nationalist. Anti-hate activists say the United We Roll campaign has been plagued by racist messages.


Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 11, 2019, 07:23:12 pm
Andrew Scheer seems to know them.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/a3bjb4/andrew-scheer-criticized-for-support-of-united-we-roll-convoy

Scheer spoke at the same rally as Faith Goldy, the notorious white nationalist. Anti-hate activists say the United We Roll campaign has been plagued by racist messages.

He should be more careful, dumb move by him.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on March 11, 2019, 07:29:47 pm
He should be more careful, dumb move by him.

I am embedded with this cuckoos.  Some points:

First of all, they changed their name to United We Roll! because neo-Nazis had taken control of the Canadian Yellow Vests movement.  They tried - sometimes in vain - to get people to shut up about anything but energy policy.  But kudos to them for at least squelching the racist elements.  It didn't work 100% either.

Secondly, they also wanted to distance themselves from Goldy.  She showed up anyway and jumped up and started speaking - supposedly without permission.

The good I take from that is that even populist fringe dwellers can see that outright racism is a no-go politically.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: poochy on March 11, 2019, 07:45:33 pm
Do you support Faith Goldy or "United We Roll" also?

When did you stop beating your wife?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 11, 2019, 09:05:42 pm
When did you stop beating your wife?

I don't have a wife, but I'll take your response as another feeble attempt at deflection.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: poochy on March 12, 2019, 08:40:46 pm
I don't have a wife, but I'll take your response as another feeble attempt at deflection.

lol, every post you make is deflection, obfuscation, non requiters or straw men, and that's exactly what I was replying to with that comment,  your shtick never changes OGFT, it's painfully predictable.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 12, 2019, 08:44:13 pm
lol, every post you make is deflection, obfuscation, non requiters or straw men, and that's exactly what I was replying to with that comment,  your shtick never changes OGFT, it's painfully predictable.

I suspect you are confused yet again.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 12, 2019, 09:02:14 pm
(https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/opinion/editorial_cartoon/2019/03/12/theo-moudakis-conspiracy-party/theo_moudakis_conspiracy_party.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 12, 2019, 09:16:48 pm
(https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/opinion/editorial_cartoon/2019/03/12/theo-moudakis-conspiracy-party/theo_moudakis_conspiracy_party.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa4kX4eoGAY
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 13, 2019, 12:10:47 am
And of course Jagmeet Singh had the encounter with the crazy-lady at his townhall who went on a rant about Sharia and the Muslim Brotherhood. He handled that situation very effectively.

I've heard rumors that the incident was staged.  She was a plant.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 13, 2019, 12:13:21 am
Agreed, the biggest thing Trudeau has going for him right now is the quality of his opposition.

At least they don't beat Women, get DUI's and punch out cab drivers. That's the leader of the NDP of Manitoba. Palliser is the worst Premier in the history of the province, but will easily get re-elected, as the alternative is much worse.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on March 13, 2019, 06:08:41 am
I've heard rumors that the incident was staged.  She was a plant.

Yeah - makes no sense.  The NDP gains nothing from having a stance on conspiracy theories.  It's really a thing that can hurt/help conservatives.  The far-right nutbars are just ACHING for Scheer to condemn the Globalists. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on March 13, 2019, 07:42:33 am
Questioning our immigration policy?
I've yet to hear a single reasonable criticism of our immigration policy, outside of "it takes too long to process claims." There is literally no substantiated claims about over immigration. Not a single shred of evidence for it whatsoever.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 13, 2019, 08:21:40 am
I've yet to hear a single reasonable criticism of our immigration policy, outside of "it takes too long to process claims." There is literally no substantiated claims about over immigration. Not a single shred of evidence for it whatsoever.

Of course this is nonsense, but you're entitled to your opinion.

The question was, is questioning our immigration policies necessarily taking a cue from the "Trump playbook"?  Can you question our immigration policies without being seen as a racist xenophobe etc?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on March 13, 2019, 08:44:56 am
I guess we need a good example first.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on March 13, 2019, 11:35:40 am
Of course this is nonsense, but you're entitled to your opinion.

The question was, is questioning our immigration policies necessarily taking a cue from the "Trump playbook"?  Can you question our immigration policies without being seen as a racist xenophobe etc?
You're creating a strawman: nobody claims that any and all questioning of immigration is a cue from the Trump playbook. That's an extreme position that you've created to imply that any and all questioning of immigration is valid.

Immigration should be questioned in a rational and intelligent way, based on observable facts and data. Hysteria over Islamofascists flooding our gates is bullshit, especially when a large proportion of the Muslims we admit are fleeing the secular and political violence they face in their homelands. Hell,  you can't even look at a public discussion about immigration online without people conflating immigrants and refugees. The vast majority of commenters are completely unfamiliar with our immigration system and the laws that direct it.

So do you want me to admit that questioning the immigration system is NOT out of the Trump playbook? Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's not. The context and content of the arguments matters. There is no one black and white statement to be made about these kinds of complex issues.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 13, 2019, 11:50:30 am
Questioning our immigration policy?
The question was, is questioning our immigration policies necessarily taking a cue from the "Trump playbook"?  Can you question our immigration policies without being seen as a racist xenophobe etc?

so that purposely staged heckling from the alt-right was just... "questioning our immigration policies"? One of the phrases shouted was, "I want to know when you are going to refund the $146m we paid for your illegal immigrants" - was that as well crafted as your strawman attempt?

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 13, 2019, 11:53:30 am
You're creating a strawman: nobody claims that any and all questioning of immigration is a cue from the Trump playbook. That's an extreme position that you've created to imply that any and all questioning of immigration is valid.

You're creating the strawman, and I never implied all questioning of immigration is valid.

You responded to my response to omni.  He said Scheer is taking a cue from the Trump playbook.  I was asking if that was because he was questioning our immigration policy. His answer to that question was if i support Faith Goldy and United We Roll, because apparently Scheer is associated with them.

This thread is about Scheer and not our immigration policy, because that will cause a bomb of thread drift that we can talk about in one of the immigration threads here.  If you're happy with our immigration policies, and have never seen a reasonable argument that parts of it may be flawed, vote Liberal this fall.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 13, 2019, 11:59:06 am
This thread is about Scheer
(https://i.imgur.com/GeLDFmA.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 13, 2019, 12:09:51 pm
so that purposely staged heckling from the alt-right was just... "questioning our immigration policies"? One of the phrases shouted was, "I want to know when you are going to refund the $146m we paid for your illegal immigrants" - was that as well crafted as your strawman attempt?

Let me frank:  you have a very long history of speaking to myself and many others with a very disrespectful tone, with asshole grinning faces, with the intent of constructing your posts in such a manner as to try to make the person you're addressing feel as bad as you possibly can.  In short, you're not a nice person, you're a troll, and probably have some kind of sociopathic mental illness, and I don't want to debate with you any longer.  I came to this board to get away from the asshole mods and the asshole trolls from the other board, and I wish i knew who the hell thought it was a good idea to invite you here.

So in short, I don't want to "debate" with you any more, i probably won't be responding to many if any of your posts anymore.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on March 13, 2019, 12:10:04 pm
About Scheer....he was the worst Speaker of the House in Canadian history. Fuck that smarmy cherubim douchebag.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 13, 2019, 12:14:43 pm
About Scheer....he was the worst Speaker of the House in Canadian history. Fuck that smarmy cherubim douchebag.

I still don't know much about the guy or his policies for the CPC.  He's definitely not a very inspiring leader and is a bit of a wet noodle.  IMO, Canada isn't in very good hands for at least the next few years no matter what happens this fall.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 13, 2019, 12:16:26 pm
Let me frank:  you have a very long history of speaking to myself and many others with a very disrespectful tone, with asshole grinning faces, with the intent of constructing your posts in such a manner as to try to make the person you're addressing feel as bad as you possibly can.  In short, you're not a nice person, you're a troll, and probably have some kind of sociopathic mental illness, and I don't want to debate with you any longer.  I came to this board to get away from the asshole mods and the asshole trolls from the other board, and I wish i knew who the hell thought it was a good idea to invite you here.

So in short, I don't want to "debate" with you any more, i probably won't be responding to many if any of your posts anymore.

and you're a whiny pissant who takes exception to being challenged, to being confronted over your lame, weak-assed attempts at discussing/debating/arguing. Your standard go-to victim play is most telling - grow a pair, hey! And..... your internet medical degree is wanting!

geezaz! This... this was your breaking point?  ;D
so that purposely staged heckling from the alt-right was just... "questioning our immigration policies"? One of the phrases shouted was, "I want to know when you are going to refund the $146m we paid for your illegal immigrants" - was that as well crafted as your strawman attempt?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 13, 2019, 01:07:36 pm
and you're a whiny pissant who takes exception to being challenged, to being confronted over your lame, weak-assed attempts at discussing/debating/arguing. Your standard go-to victim play is most telling - grow a pair, hey! And..... your internet medical degree is wanting!

I've never had a problem being challenged by anyone else on this or any other board.  I don't have a problem with your arguments, it's the tone.  Only other poster on here or MLW i've ignored is BC2004, so you can't call me ideological about it.

Quote
geezaz! This... this was your breaking point?  ;D

That wasn't my breaking point, I've been ignoring most of your posts for awhile, along with your responses to others.  Have a great day, hey!  ;D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 13, 2019, 01:15:33 pm
I've never had a problem being challenged by anyone else on this or any other board.  I don't have a problem with your arguments, it's the tone.  Only other poster on here or MLW i've ignored is BC2004, so you can't call me ideological about it.

That wasn't my breaking point, I've been ignoring most of your posts for awhile, along with your responses to others.  Have a great day, hey!  ;D

accepting to your internet sourced medical degree diagnosis of, "sociopathic mental illness", you to... you have a great day, hey pissantDocPooner!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on March 14, 2019, 05:21:28 pm
Let me frank:  you have a very long history of speaking to myself and many others with a very disrespectful tone, with asshole grinning faces, with the intent of constructing your posts in such a manner as to try to make the person you're addressing feel as bad as you possibly can.  In short, you're not a nice person, you're a troll, and probably have some kind of sociopathic mental illness, and I don't want to debate with you any longer.  I came to this board to get away from the asshole mods and the asshole trolls from the other board, and I wish i knew who the hell thought it was a good idea to invite you here.

So in short, I don't want to "debate" with you any more, i probably won't be responding to many if any of your posts anymore.

I share your exasperation and also state over the years you have given me great leeway and thank you for that.  However your point is taken by me too. I plead guilty as well.

As for the topic itself,  I would like to see a little more on Dimples. The worst insult to date I have heard about Scheer is he has been called a "policy wonk".

I have read up a bit about him and do not claim to be an expert but I will be voting or him and I used to be a blue Liberal (Martin Liberal) now I am a Tory. I first started off not liking Harper and towards the end was not happy with all the patronage spending, but I found him to be someone low in ego which made me respect him and I very much found his foreign policy refreshing. I also for the most part preferred his approach to the economy and his disdain for phony photo-ops and his plain spoken ways.

May I go out on a limb and say I bet some people who voted for Trudeau now would prefer the less flashy Harper. Scheer I find inoffensive. I think he has done his best to speak clearly, professionally and serve as Opposition leader. OK he is not charismatic and I won't put a poster of him in my  bed-room as I did for Justins Bieber and Trudeau but at this point I think he is the best option. With due respect who else is there that bozo Bernier or Mr. Singh?

Mr. Singh I just do not believe has sufficient kahonies or knowledge of how government works nor control over his own party.

I think Lavalin has the potential to slowly leak more info and erode Liberal votes. Whether Bernier gets them now is up for question because when Bernier disappeared over Lavalin for fear of alienating Quebec voters he wants he showed his true self and I hope that strips him of any serious consideration by Liberals fed up with Trudeau.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on March 14, 2019, 05:40:24 pm
accepting to your internet sourced medical degree diagnosis of, "sociopathic mental illness", you to... you have a great day, hey pissantDocPooner!

Waldo you got a little Rue virus. We both can get a little bit snit face. I have with you and Omni but I only do it because you give what you take and I enjoy the debates. I am also guilty. Every now and then I pull my head out of my Rue and say sorry or laugh when Omni asks me if I ever practiced law. I think I have. I think that is where the robe comes from. Then again I have had my share of students and clients who have reminded me I am related to a donkey.

I confess I laugh hard sometimes when I get insulted. Some insults are hilariously good. You and MG are good people as well as that other Liberal patoot the Kadr loving Omni. Just don't come on my lawn with a red sign. I do wonderful things with a water hose.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 14, 2019, 08:12:47 pm
Waldo you got a little Rue virus. We both can get a little bit snit face. I have with you and Omni but I only do it because you give what you take and I enjoy the debates. I am also guilty. Every now and then I pull my head out of my Rue and say sorry or laugh when Omni asks me if I ever practiced law. I think I have. I think that is where the robe comes from. Then again I have had my share of students and clients who have reminded me I am related to a donkey.

I confess I laugh hard sometimes when I get insulted. Some insults are hilariously good. You and MG are good people as well as that other Liberal patoot the Kadr loving Omni. Just don't come on my lawn with a red sign. I do wonderful things with a water hose.

I'm confident you can find the lawn with a water hose. Good job l'ill buddy.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 15, 2019, 12:39:47 pm
somehow... Andy can't manage to say the 'M' word!  ;D


(https://i.imgur.com/TUM07wT.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on March 15, 2019, 10:16:00 pm
I still don't know much about the guy or his policies for the CPC.  He's definitely not a very inspiring leader and is a bit of a wet noodle.  IMO, Canada isn't in very good hands for at least the next few years no matter what happens this fall.

I dunno.  It's looking like minority government territory and things can change quickly.  We need an organizational Elon Musk.  An Agile Winston Churchill.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 15, 2019, 11:20:39 pm
I dunno.  It's looking like minority government territory and things can change quickly.  We need an organizational Elon Musk.  An Agile Winston Churchill.

...or as a said a couple of weeks ago, Peter MacKay to come out of retirement, and kick some ass.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on March 16, 2019, 06:55:31 am
...or as a said a couple of weeks ago, Peter MacKay to come out of retirement, and kick some ass.

Oh, FFS.... #1 Conservative liar that sacrificed his career to unite the right ?  The only other thing I remember about him was he dated Belinda Stronach so badly he turned her Liberal.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 16, 2019, 12:10:55 pm
speaking of... was it ever finally settled? Was that really MacKay's dog or the rumoured rental prop? ... googlies aren't helping me here! Anyone, anyone.....

(https://i.imgur.com/UXiTvgv.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 16, 2019, 12:33:32 pm
Scheer certainly blew it with his initial response to the killings in NZ when he neglected to identify the facts that the people who were shot were Muslims and in their mosque. He tried to repair that later but it mostly just served to underscore the initial blunder.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 16, 2019, 01:05:01 pm
Scheer certainly blew it with his initial response to the killings in NZ when he neglected to identify the facts that the people who were shot were Muslims and in their mosque. He tried to repair that later but it mostly just served to underscore the initial blunder.

Pretty ridiculous thing to criticize someone for.  Does it mean he's Islamophobic or something? Just dumb as this article.  Does it mean Trudeau is antisemitic and doesn't care about jews?:  https://torontosun.com/2017/10/04/trudeau-erases-jews-from-the-holocaust-again/wcm/5961a79b-1c4a-4438-a2b3-9c7ab3eee871#comments

Let's focus on intention not nitpick on every word of what someone says or doesn't say.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 16, 2019, 01:18:18 pm
Pretty ridiculous thing to criticize someone for.  Does it mean he's Islamophobic or something? Just dumb as this article.  Does it mean Trudeau is antisemitic and doesn't care about jews?:  https://torontosun.com/2017/10/04/trudeau-erases-jews-from-the-holocaust-again/wcm/5961a79b-1c4a-4438-a2b3-9c7ab3eee871#comments

Let's focus on intention not nitpick on every word of what someone says or doesn't say.

I will have to assume then that you are also quite happy with him making a speech while being on stage with the likes of Faith Goldy and the Yellow Vests far right anti immigrant group.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 16, 2019, 01:21:50 pm
I will have to assume then that you are also quite happy with him making a speech while being on stage with the likes of Faith Goldy and the Yellow Vests far right anti immigrant group.

What?  I already said that was an error for him, though i heard Goldy just showed up uninvited.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 16, 2019, 03:15:18 pm
Pretty ridiculous thing to criticize someone for.

it took that social media (and even some mainstream media) criticism to drag a do-over from Andy - 15 hours later! Clearly Andy is either... pandering or just tone-deaf? (h/t TorStar editorial)... there's a somewhat lengthy pattern here - ya think! Per that TorStar editorial, an extract:

(https://i.imgur.com/ary6e73.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 16, 2019, 03:37:27 pm
This is just the most recent event where Scheer seems to show his true colors. He has a history of same.


Andrew Scheer and members of his Conservative caucus attended and spoke at the Yellow Vests Convoy rally in Ottawa. Attendees of the rally included white nationalist Faith Goldy and members of prominent far-right anti-immigrant hate groups.


https://north99.org/2019/02/19/andrew-scheer-joins-white-nationalist-faith-goldy-hate-group-members-to-endorse-yellow-vests-convoy/
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 16, 2019, 05:08:45 pm
Well here's a recent poll from Ipsos Reid about what Canadians think about immigration in Canada.  I guess most are a bunch of rabid racists

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2019-01/immigration-tables-1_0.pdf

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2019-01/immigration_slides.pdf

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: JMT on March 16, 2019, 08:28:35 pm
Most are completely uninformed.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on March 16, 2019, 08:53:47 pm
Most are completely uninformed.
Rather arrogant of you to assume that you are the one who is "informed" when you get your knowledge from people with a vested interest in exaggerating the benefits while downplaying the harms.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: JMT on March 16, 2019, 08:55:58 pm
Rather arrogant of you to assume that you are the one who is "informed" when you get your knowledge from people with a vested interest in exaggerating the benefits while downplaying the harms.

Fear of people who are different is what's driving this attitude, coupled with misinformation put out about benefits that immigrants and refugees receive.  I'll be arrogant in the face of that, yeah.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 16, 2019, 09:16:48 pm
Well here's a recent poll from Ipsos Reid about what Canadians think about immigration in Canada.  I guess most are a bunch of rabid racists

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2019-01/immigration-tables-1_0.pdf

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2019-01/immigration_slides.pdf

Well it really depends who is immigrating to our country:


Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on March 16, 2019, 09:45:41 pm
Fear of people who are different is what's driving this attitude, coupled with misinformation put out about benefits that immigrants and refugees receive.  I'll be arrogant in the face of that, yeah.
If you can't provide a significant list of the benefits AND harms caused by immigration then you can't claim to be informed. It is complex issue and ignoring the real harms that do exist is as bad as ignoring the benefits which also exist.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on March 16, 2019, 10:26:44 pm
Rather arrogant of you to assume that you are the one who is "informed" when you get your knowledge from people with a vested interest in exaggerating the benefits while downplaying the harms.

Yes, it's a bad assumption - but having spoken to a lot of 'real' Canadians I suspect he is dead right.

- They get their news from bad sources
- They overstate the numbers of immigrants and refugees
- They overstate the numbers of border crossing refugees
- They don't understand the rationale for immigration
- They mix up immigration with the refugee system

If I didn't encounter these things so often I would say that it's probably incorrect.  But I encounter them virtually every time I engage with a stranger on this topic, in fact I can't think of being quoted a correct fact that I didn't know already.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 16, 2019, 10:36:00 pm
Perhaps they tend to get hoodwinked by the BS that comes from Trumps mouth. Scheer seems to mimic him more and more often.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on March 16, 2019, 10:37:16 pm
Perhaps they tend to get hoodwinked by the BS that comes from Trumps mouth. Scheer seems to mimic him more and more often.

No - they share memes and anonymous videos created by troll factories.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on March 16, 2019, 11:21:22 pm
If I didn't encounter these things so often I would say that it's probably incorrect.  But I encounter them virtually every time I engage with a stranger on this topic, in fact I can't think of being quoted a correct fact that I didn't know already.
As with most complex topics there are moronic arguments used by the both sides. Should I call people who support your pro-immigration stance uninformed morons because some people who support your pro-immigration stance are uninformed? Is that really the standard we should adopt?

The fact is there are harms caused by immigration and informed people understand the harms and the benefits and make a choice to balance the two based on their values. There is no easy right answer on this topic and it is dishonest to pretend there is one. Is also absurdly arrogant to assume that anyone who does not agree with you must be uninformed.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 16, 2019, 11:34:05 pm
As with most complex topics there are moronic arguments used by the both sides. Should I call people who support your pro-immigration stance uninformed morons because some people who support your pro-immigration stance are uninformed? Is that really the standard we should adopt?

The fact is there are harms caused by immigration and informed people understand the harms and the benefits and make a choice to balance the two based on their values. There is no easy right answer on this topic and it is dishonest to pretend there is one. Is also absurdly arrogant to assume that anyone who does not agree with you must be uninformed.

The "easy right answer" is that immigration has contributed to Canada's success throughout it's history and will continue to do so, especially since we are not having babies as fast as we are dying. Not to say there have been any problems from time to time, but xenophobia will hurt us a lot more.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on March 16, 2019, 11:44:36 pm
The "easy right answer" is that immigration has contributed to Canada's success throughout it's history and will continue to do so, especially since we are not having babies as fast as we are dying. Not to say there have been any problems from time to time, but xenophobia will hurt us a lot more.
As any financial product prospectus says: Past Performance Is Not Indicative Of Future Results.

BTW: one of the most idiotic argument made by the pro-immigration side is that immigration helps with our demographic issues. It doesn't - especially given the mix of immigrants we allow which includes a lot of elderly parents which add to the burden. At best it is short term band aid that is unsustainable over the long run.

I guess we can put you down as an 'uninformed' advocate.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 16, 2019, 11:54:34 pm
As any financial product prospectus says: Past Performance Is Not Indicative Of Future Results.

BTW: one of the most idiotic argument made by the pro-immigration side is that immigration helps with our demographic issues. It doesn't - especially given the mix of immigrants we allow which includes a lot of elderly parents which add to the burden. At best it is short term band aid that is unsustainable over the long run.

I guess we can put you down as an 'uninformed' advocate.

I'll make it simple: Canadians get old and they get the OAP, CPP, and maybe GIS, when they are done working. Where does that money come from? It comes from taxes paid by younger people who are still workers. Now since we aren't having babies to become those younger workers, we need to get them elsewhere, and that's where immigration comes in. And your suggestion that immigrants are all a bunch of old people who don't contribute is simply wrong, and demonstrates who is uninformed on the issue.

 https://globalnews.ca/news/4211243/immigration-canadian-economy/

In addition to supporting economic activity across the country, bringing in young, working-age immigrants also helps address the issue of Canada’s aging population. The report states that in a Canada where immigration was abandoned entirely, 26.9 per cent of the population would be 65 and over by 2040. In addition, Canada’s potential economic growth would slow from 1.9 per cent to an average of 1.3 per cent annually without immigration.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on March 17, 2019, 12:03:47 am
It comes from taxes paid by younger people who are still workers.
Uninformed nonsense that probably comes from reading too many trolls on the Internet.

A paper from the C.D. Howe institute.
https://spon.ca/higher-immigration-cannot-keep-canada-young/2018/03/13/

Quote
The key message from the simulations is that changes in immigration levels have impacts on the margin only: no increase within the realm of practicality can prevent population aging. Other policies to ease the demographic transition, notably encouraging people to work longer, are at least as powerful – and, further, would complement changes to immigration policy by improving Canada’s attractiveness to people willing and able to contribute to the Canadian economy.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 17, 2019, 12:19:08 am
Uninformed nonsense that probably comes from reading too many trolls on the Internet.

A paper from the C.D. Howe institute.
https://spon.ca/higher-immigration-cannot-keep-canada-young/2018/03/13/

Perhaps you didn't read the site you posted very well. It concludes similar projections as to what I have listed.
It simply suggests that we need a combination of immigration and for people to retire later. OK, you can work until you drop if you like, just to keep those durn foreigners out.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on March 17, 2019, 12:29:31 am
Perhaps you didn't read the site you posted very well. It concludes similar projections as to what I have listed.
No it doesn't. It states unequivocally that immigration is not going to solve the problems caused by aging population. It tries to dress that conclusion up with pro-immigration commentary and suggests polices that don't actually require immigration to implement such as an increased working age.

There are good pro-immigration arguments. The argument that it will address demographic problems is nonsense. So is the argument that it will increase GDP (it does but if per capita GDP goes down we will be much better off with a lower total GDP).
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 17, 2019, 01:52:45 am
This thread is about Scheer and not our immigration policy, because that will cause a bomb of thread drift that we can talk about in one of the immigration threads here.

(https://i.imgur.com/GeLDFmA.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on March 17, 2019, 09:59:54 am
As with most complex topics there are moronic arguments used by the both sides. Should I call people who support your pro-immigration stance uninformed morons because some people who support your pro-immigration stance are uninformed? Is that really the standard we should adopt?

Well, you could but it's not in the same arena of stupidity as saying, for example, Trudeau secretly converted to Islam which is why we have border crossers.  The article you posted on aging population is a great example of an immigration argument that people quote incorrectly but a lot more difficult to understand.

Aaand... there is the fact that the GDP is widely thought to need to GROW... which is the ultimate argument for immigration.  To argue against that is pretty unorthodox economics although some submit that.  And it goes against immigration aims of the business community including banks and those who hire immigrants to suit their goals.

Quote
The fact is there are harms caused by immigration and informed people understand the harms and the benefits and make a choice to balance the two based on their values. There is no easy right answer on this topic and it is dishonest to pretend there is one. Is also absurdly arrogant to assume that anyone who does not agree with you must be uninformed.

Absolutely - there is no 'right argument'.  I never meant to imply that anti-immigration views necessarily mean being uninformed.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on March 17, 2019, 10:46:20 am
Aaand... there is the fact that the GDP is widely thought to need to GROW... which is the ultimate argument for immigration.  To argue against that is pretty unorthodox economics although some submit that.  And it goes against immigration aims of the business community including banks and those who hire immigrants to suit their goals.
The business community thinks about their bottom line and more people means more customers which means higher profits. In the short term they are not wrong. The trouble with the GDP growth argument is it ignores the GDP per capita question which is much more important because it measures the ability for governments to keep up with the demand for services created by the new people. If GDP per capita drops then governments will be less able to pay for promised services and immigration will leave us further behind. Of course, GDP per capita has generally risen with population so the historical record gives reason to be optimistic. OTOH, the ability to increase GDP per capita depends on greatly increasing the productivity of each citizen which is hard to do in our modern society if we are bringing in a lot of immigrants that cannot read or speak English or French. So there is no reason to assume that past trends will continue on into the future.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 17, 2019, 12:20:24 pm
The business community thinks about their bottom line and more people means more customers which means higher profits. In the short term they are not wrong. The trouble with the GDP growth argument is it ignores the GDP per capita question which is much more important because it measures the ability for governments to keep up with the demand for services created by the new people. If GDP per capita drops then governments will be less able to pay for promised services and immigration will leave us further behind. Of course, GDP per capita has generally risen with population so the historical record gives reason to be optimistic. OTOH, the ability to increase GDP per capita depends on greatly increasing the productivity of each citizen which is hard to do in our modern society if we are bringing in a lot of immigrants that cannot read or speak English or French. So there is no reason to assume that past trends will continue on into the future.

Well if you bothered to look at the actual stats you would see we don't bring in a lot of illiterates, but actually over 60% are economic class, which means they have skill sets which allow them to enter the work force. Then there are around 26% who are family class, where the family member sponsoring must be able to sponsor. And then the remainder are "other" and of course refugees. The latter group has increased somewhat due to those fleeing the horrors that Assad has created in Syria. And once again, there is the reality that Canadians are getting older and not having babies. You want your government pension and maybe a little healthcare later on, better have somebody punching a time clock somewhere.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 17, 2019, 12:56:55 pm
Most are completely uninformed.

You live in Waterhen, Manitoba.  Are you informed about it? Because i doubt immigration has affected you or others in your area much if at all, and your exposure to immigrants at least in your area (and nearby Winnipeg) is extremely limited according to demographic stats.

But alas we shouldn't take about this here, it will start a major drift.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 17, 2019, 12:59:45 pm
Fear of people who are different is what's driving this attitude, coupled with misinformation put out about benefits that immigrants and refugees receive.  I'll be arrogant in the face of that, yeah.

There's some of that, but it's far more complex than that.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: JMT on March 17, 2019, 01:22:35 pm
You live in Waterhen, Manitoba.  Are you informed about it? Because i doubt immigration has affected you or others in your area much if at all, and your exposure to immigrants at least in your area (and nearby Winnipeg) is extremely limited according to demographic stats.

But alas we shouldn't take about this here, it will start a major drift.

A - I don't care about thread drift.  Like I said that, isn't a thing here.

B - I lived in Winnipeg for 4 years.  I am a minority as a white in the area that I live in.  I have traveled the world extensively, and I have seen the statistics and endorsements.  Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes and tend to be more educated than native born Canadians.  Refugees are a totally different thing, and we are obligated to receive them, and I'm proud that we do.  People with brown skim simply don't scare me.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 17, 2019, 01:33:26 pm
A - I don't care about thread drift.  Like I said that, isn't a thing here.

whether here... or "there", you court the purposeful thread drift done to add cover over well-researched, well-written, on-topic points of discussion/argument... with a sole intent of quickly burying "inconvenient" critique while driving it deeper from current page(s). Over at the shyte-hole, the waldo took to re-posting the purposely buried which, of course, resulted in multiple suspensions - cause the azz-hole could!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: JMT on March 17, 2019, 01:38:00 pm
whether here... or "there", you court the purposeful thread drift done to add cover over well-researched, well-written, on-topic points of discussion/argument... with a sole intent of quickly burying "inconvenient" critique while driving it deeper from current page(s). Over at the shyte-hole, the waldo took to re-posting the purposely buried which, of course, resulted in multiple suspensions - cause the azz-hole could!

I'm afraid you're going to have to translate that into English for me.  I haven't been 'there' in over 2 years.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 17, 2019, 01:55:07 pm
I'm afraid you're going to have to translate that into English for me.  I haven't been 'there' in over 2 years.

and either have I - my choice! In any case, from personal experience and often observed, your apparent encouragement of free-wheeling, off-topic posting will:

Quote
court the purposeful thread drift done to add cover over well-researched (time consuming), well-written, on-topic points of discussion/argument... with a sole intent of quickly burying "inconvenient" critique while driving it deeper from current page(s).
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: JMT on March 17, 2019, 01:57:00 pm
and either have I - my choice! In any case, from personal experience and often observed, your apparent encouragement of free-wheeling, off-topic posting will:

You have an opinion - it's noted.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 17, 2019, 02:02:00 pm
You have an opinion - it's noted.

I note your noting
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 17, 2019, 04:04:25 pm
A - I don't care about thread drift.  Like I said that, isn't a thing here.

Which I appreciate.  I just think this topic deserves its own thread, so i made one.

Moving our convo there: https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/canada-discussion-forum/canadian-attitudes-on-immigration-recent-polling/
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on March 17, 2019, 08:41:34 pm
You live in Waterhen, Manitoba.  Are you informed about it? Because i doubt immigration has affected you or others in your area much if at all, and your exposure to immigrants at least in your area (and nearby Winnipeg) is extremely limited according to demographic stats.

But alas we shouldn't take about this here, it will start a major drift.

How have you been “affected by immigration “?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: JMT on March 18, 2019, 05:23:58 pm
Well it really depends who is immigrating to our country:

Europeans: hardly any problems. Integrate fully into Canadian society.
Far East Asians: Some of our best immigrants. Work hard, create jobs. Obey our laws.
South Asians: First generation may have issues due to the caste system, but their children are usually good.
Africans: depends on which country. Most African-Canadians are good. Somalians are the exception, as they have a high rate of crime and violence
Middle East (especially Palestine): Fine if you do not happen to be Jewish. They tend to continue their wars against the Jews into their new country.

I don't know that there's proof of this.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 18, 2019, 06:02:54 pm
How have you been “affected by immigration “?

Well my colleagues are mostly immigrants, as are my clients, as are my neighbours, as are my friends, so that might take awhile to explain.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on March 18, 2019, 06:04:09 pm
Well my colleagues are mostly immigrants, as are my clients, as are my neighbours, as are my friends, so that might take awhile to explain.

You stated it as if it was a negative...  now you're backtracking.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 18, 2019, 10:04:28 pm
You stated it as if it was a negative...  now you're backtracking.

You're assuming I like my neighbours and coworkers  :D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 26, 2019, 12:05:37 am
apparently, a member would like to entertain a 'good friends' brand-off  ;D

(https://www.hilltimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Goldy-200x200.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on March 26, 2019, 06:15:25 am
Whenever I see her, I make sure to tell people that she is famous for making a pledge to preserve the white race, written by a neo-Nazi who murdered a Jewish liberal radio host in cold blood.

I make sure to tell people that because the comments under her picture often include statements like "what's wrong with protecting the white race ?" and such comments.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 26, 2019, 02:56:09 pm
Scheer liked how the guy staged a 12-cycle rope-a-dope leadership campaign... only to strike forward on the 13th ballot and put Bernier down! Scheer liked him so much, he hired him to manage his 2019 'reach for the top'!

(https://i.imgur.com/1YiUsnY.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on March 26, 2019, 06:43:49 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/2C4a18n.png)
Quote
The strange thing is that for a party so tough on crime that it states its position in capital letters, its leader is arguably less than tough when it comes to a force that drives crime: hate. (https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2019/03/25/andrew-scheer-cant-be-tough-on-crime-if-he-is-soft-on-hate.html)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on March 30, 2019, 09:07:34 pm
Wow this  is the best you have on sneering Dimples? Hahahaha

How about some pictures and explain how he tries to use his office to stop criminal trials on behalf of the accused and goes on vacations paid by people seeking government funding. Better still discuss how he lies to the public, says he follows the rule of law while at the same time violating it.Show how he ridicules aboriginals concerned about mercury poisoning but sheds tears for them at the same time.

Show how he gets out of his seat in Parliament and pushes people physically. Show how he refuses to answer questions he is asked in Parliament and has issues with women who question him. Also discuss how people quit on him.



Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on March 30, 2019, 09:19:37 pm
Andrew Sheer is not tough. We need someone tough like Justin Trudeau. Ahahahahah. Damb how Waldo says such shit and does not have a seizure is beyond me. Then again I hear Waldo has posters of Sheila Copps and Judy Lamarsh up with Bill Morneau, Seamus and Justin in his home. Me I only have one of  Chantal Hebert.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on March 30, 2019, 09:28:54 pm
Andrew Sheer is not tough. We need someone tough like Justin Trudeau. Ahahahahah. Damb how Waldo says such shit and does not have a seizure is beyond me. Then again I hear Waldo has posters of Sheila Copps and Judy Lamarsh up with Bill Morneau, Seamus and Justin in his home. Me I only have one of  Chantal Hebert.

I bet both you and Scheer have Faith Goldy posters on your wall too eh.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 02, 2019, 12:46:05 pm
whatcha talkin' bout Andy!

(https://i.imgur.com/q6d7BEg.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 02, 2019, 01:07:04 pm
weakSauceAndy - Spammer-in-Chief! (https://globalnews.ca/video/embed/5118288/)

(https://i.imgur.com/X7QtinM.png)

hey now - why doesn't lyinAndy ever mention the rebates? C'mon weakSauce... what about the rebates?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on April 02, 2019, 04:16:31 pm
Scheer has to be the most uninspiring leader the PCs/Cons have ever selected.  If Michael Chong were leader, I think you'd find them handily ahead in the polls given the Liberals screw-ups.  But the CPC base  insisted on a social conservative.  The CPC is dead in the water. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on April 03, 2019, 12:09:35 pm
  If Michael Chong were leader, I think you'd find them handily ahead in the polls given the Liberals screw-ups.   

He's not very political but at this point, a technocrat is a PLUS for a party. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on April 03, 2019, 01:58:05 pm
He's not very political...

What do you mean?

Quote

... but at this point, a technocrat is a PLUS for a party.

He's a technocrat?  What makes you think that?

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy

Technocracy is a proposed system of governance in which decision-makers are selected on the basis of their expertise in a given area of responsibility, particularly with regard to scientific or technical knowledge. This system explicitly contrasts with the notion that elected representatives should be the primary decision-makers in government,[1] though it does not necessarily imply eliminating elected representatives. Leadership skills for decision-makers are selected on the basis of specialized knowledge and performance, rather than political affiliations or parliamentary skills.[2]
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 05, 2019, 01:56:26 pm
squiggy, here's your own goal... played out in video! If you thought 'turning their backs on' was brand indicative, what is 'walking out on weakSauce' (https://globalnews.ca/video/embed/5127490/)?



Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on April 05, 2019, 02:46:45 pm
squiggy, here's your own goal... played out in video! If you thought 'turning their backs on' was brand indicative, what is 'walking out on weakSauce' (https://globalnews.ca/video/embed/5127490/)?

Where did I say Scheer appealed to young female voters?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: poochy on April 05, 2019, 06:26:28 pm
I wonder if our Prime Minister still admires the basic dictatorship of a country that puts religious people in internment camps, like the one million Muslims currently held there, and I wonder if he would say it aloud again, are Canadians stupid enough to vote for that twice?  I say yes, absolutely they are.  This doesn't even include the things like organ harvesting or outright murder, but I digress.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45474279

It is impressive how Marxism has made a comeback in the mainstream, so much so that a western leader can utter those idiotic words about a terrible country and still succeed, but here we have in this thread fanatics screaming bloody murder over a group of people so small in this country that nobody even bothers to quantify how many of these bonafide white nationalists there are here.  No doubt they exist, like they do everywhere, but they pale in comparison to the number of people who voted for a man who has on more than one occasion shown his affinity for far left dictatorships and their leaders.  But that's perfectly fine in a western democracy, perfectly normal thinking, now.  Its not as though those people have ever harmed anyone, anywhere.

Has Scheer ever uttered those same words for the far right governments he obviously admires?   So the difference is between a man who admits an affinity for an abhorrent ideology to a man to whom you want to ascribe your belief that he also believes in an also abhorrent, different ideology.  I know, its not the same, and you're right, one of them is much, much worse, the other one is made up nonsense.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 08, 2019, 11:55:25 am
You're beating a dead horse with this Faith Goldy comparison. Do you have evidence that Sheer shares Goldy's extremist views.

by association!
=> Scheer fully knew of Goldy's prior white-nationalist & Islamophobic & anti-immigrant views/positions when he agreed to be her featured guest on the Rebel TV program she hosted. The main topic of their discussion was a, "non-binding, symbolic motion introduced by a Liberal MP to condemn Islamophobia and all religious discrimination in the aftermath of the Quebec city terrorist who murdered six Muslim men praying in a mosque". Scheer so boldly stepped up to state he planned to vote against that motion - concerned that a Parliamentary motion to denounce the hatred that fueled the Quebec murder of Muslim worshipers would lead to broader attacks on free speech! Of course the fawning Goldy lapped all that up, big time! Earlier someone put up a link to that Goldy-Scheer interview...

=> Scheer fully knew of Goldy's prior white-nationalist & Islamophobic & anti-immigrant views/positions when he shared a stage with her, standing just feet away from her, during that Yellow-Vest/United-We-Roll protest on Parliament Hill.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on April 08, 2019, 03:48:25 pm
by association!
=> Scheer fully knew of Goldy's prior white-nationalist & Islamophobic & anti-immigrant views/positions when he agreed to be her featured guest on the Rebel TV program she hosted. The main topic of their discussion was a, "non-binding, symbolic motion introduced by a Liberal MP to condemn Islamophobia and all religious discrimination in the aftermath of the Quebec city terrorist who murdered six Muslim men praying in a mosque". Scheer so boldly stepped up to state he planned to vote against that motion - concerned that a Parliamentary motion to denounce the hatred that fueled the Quebec murder of Muslim worshipers would lead to broader attacks on free speech! Of course the fawning Goldy lapped all that up, big time! Earlier someone put up a link to that Goldy-Scheer interview...

=> Scheer fully knew of Goldy's prior white-nationalist & Islamophobic & anti-immigrant views/positions when he shared a stage with her, standing just feet away from her, during that Yellow-Vest/United-We-Roll protest on Parliament Hill.

BY ASSOCIATION!!!
http://www.truenorthtimes.ca/2014/08/06/justin-trudeau-visits-mosque-al-qaeda-ties/

Again cite Sheer's vocal support of White Nationalism.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on April 08, 2019, 05:30:28 pm
BY ASSOCIATION!!!

True North Times ?  Riiiight...

The link explaining the association was broken, and therein is the proof of whether your analogy is good or garbage.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 08, 2019, 05:48:43 pm
BY ASSOCIATION!!!
http://www.truenorthtimes.ca/2014/08/06/justin-trudeau-visits-mosque-al-qaeda-ties/

try harder Boges! Let me take you down memory lane: those ties were revealed by an NYT article printed a month after that actual 2011 visit by JT... notwithstanding the report reflects upon 2 members of Al Qaeda spending time at that mosque in the 1990s. Good times hey Boges - you know, the resulting hysteria generated by Harper Conservatives and fueled by Ezrant's "blockbuster" reporting!  ;D Of course, the easy comeback to Harper Conservatives was to ask that if the mosque was such a current hotbed of Al Qaeda activity between 2008-2011, why didn't Harper do anything about it - hey Boges?

Again cite Sheer's vocal support of White Nationalism.

vocal support? Boges, weakSauce is a sly weasel... like when he couldn't even manage to say the word Muslim - like that! You asked member Omni, "{if he had} evidence that Sheer shares Goldy's extremist views." I stepped in to give you 2 examples. I can't speak for why you would think it acceptable that Scheer sits for an interview with Goldy, that he shares a stage with Goldy. Why is that acceptable - to you, hey Boges?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 08, 2019, 08:25:41 pm
by association!

by association!

https://www.rt.com/news/419587-trudeau-invite-convicted-terror/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jaspal-atwal-invite-dinner-sophie-1.4545881

https://globalnews.ca/news/3954627/justin-trudeau-not-saying-if-he-has-regrets-over-joshua-boyle-meeting/

What would we all say if Scheer, who is clearly a neo-nazi dog-rapist (hidden agenda) invited to dinner a convicted white supremacist attempted murderer of a Muslim/minority, and his wife posed with a picture of him?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 08, 2019, 09:05:40 pm
What would we all say if Scheer, who is clearly a neo-nazi dog-rapist (hidden agenda) invited to dinner a convicted white supremacist attempted murderer of a Muslim/minority, and his wife posed with a picture of him?

damn! 3 links worth, no less! That's a daunting challenge you've gone to such lengths to produce!  ;D You should have doubled-down by stating Scheer... "never heard" what was being said - isn't that weakSauces' favoured go-to?

by the by, just "who/what" does the dinner invites for a PM... while taking the inordinate steps to have a PM personally vette those invites? As I said, "I can't speak for why you would think it acceptable that Scheer sits for an interview with Goldy, that he shares a stage with Goldy. Why is that acceptable - to you, hey?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on April 09, 2019, 06:05:51 am
 
by the by, just "who/what" does the dinner invites for a PM... while taking the inordinate steps to have a PM personally vette those invites? 

the waldo speaks the truth...

from someone personally sitting down, or speaking with one who advocates racist theology (Scheer) to someone who goes to a mosque from which terrorist fundraising happened...

the latter doesn't have as much 'association'...

Back to capital letters: why aren't Conservatives more concerned about the far-right morons who are worming their way into their parties ?  The knee-jerk defense of anybody wearing a blue 'C' on their shirt is going to hurt those folks, because some of the blue 'C' people just showed up and are wearing armbands underneath.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on April 09, 2019, 09:46:33 am
I can see the hidden agenda engine gearing up again for October.

When will we get people claiming he'll ban abortions and gay marriage?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 09, 2019, 09:52:33 am
I can see the hidden agenda engine gearing up again for October.

When will we get people claiming he'll ban abortions and gay marriage?

the sauce is... weak - so weak!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UITG7CqCbys
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 09, 2019, 10:15:27 am
How does threatening to sue Scheer over what Scheer has been saying about the SNC scandal hurt or help Trudeau’s brand?

I think it makes him look cowardly and weak.
Lawyer letters to your political opponents is asinine.  Harper did the same thing and dropped it.  What an idiotic move...

no - Harper actually sued... there wasn't even a threat to sue in the PM Trudeau lawyer's letter... such a dramaQueen is Scheer!

and no, Harper didn't "drop it", as you say. Rather, there was a negotiated settlement between the respective parties - to the point the Harper suit was dismissed without costs.

again, notwithstanding incorrect media headlines and weakSauces's drama, the letter - this letter (http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/5797966/Trudeau-to-Scheer-March-31-2019.pdf) - has no threat to sue within it. The letter's reference to, "treated as notice", is exactly that - and nothing more! The letter gave notice to Scheer in writing, specifying the matter complained of - nothing more, nothing less - no threat to sue no matter how hard Scheer insisted so during his whining presser charging PM Trudeau with being a bully!
(https://www.mtlblog.com/uploads/e428aceb74ae369948da39e470229dd742a70d9f.jpg_facebook.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on April 09, 2019, 10:40:31 am
Waldo started this thread to run and hide from the Lavalin thread and what Trudeau has done and engage in a juvenile hero worship session of Trudeau complete with homo-erotic photo.

His exercise to date on what Trudeau has done in the Lavalin thread  is toengage in personal insults, attacks against anyone who has disagreed with him and he has engaged in lame name calling against Sheer and JWR precisely because he dettracts-he dettracts from the behaviour of his beloved Feuhrer-Messiah-Savour.

Can someone point to one thing raised in this thread that proves a thing? Hmmm? How about you Michael Harder? You want o cheer on Waldo-what has he presented other than subjective hero worship of Trudeau and juvenile name calling of Sheer?  You have any proof Sheer is a racist? Well? Put up ot shut up? Where is the proof?

What we do know is Waldo agrees with Trudeau that the needs of Trudeau’s constituents to make profit  from a project that came from bribing Ghaddafi are more important than the lives of those persons in Libya, Afica, Asia, who Ghadafi killed through illegal invasions of their countries or by financing and training terrorists that killed them. That is racism

What we do know is Waldo agrees with Trudeau that the profit Trudeau’s constituents made is more important than the victims of not just Ghaddafi but all the other persons subject to the tyranny of the corrupt and brutal leader Lavalin bribed for over 30 years. That is racism.

Yah Sheer is a racist, but Trudeau who ignores the victims of Lavalin and claims he lives of his constitutents to make blood off these victims is more important than the victims, that's what Michael Harder?  His equating the profit needs of his constituents is morally more important than the victms of Ghadaffi’s crimes, hey that is not racism, that’s Trudeau Liberalism you know the one that will pose for photo ops with Syrian refugees private sponsors not the federal government brought in as photo ops. You know the same Trudeau who never fails to patronize and insult ethnics to pander to them for votes. The same Trudeau who posed last week with an Israeli flag and the Israeli President grinning like a jackass thinking it will get him “Jewish” votes and just like he pranced and posed in India thinking it would get him Indian votes. Who Trudeau a racist? He sheds tears for aboriginals every photo op he gets. Never mind he hisses at them in racist ignorance when one of them has he nerve to raise the fact they have no fresh drinking water.

What a joke. Sheer is a racist.

Here you lovers of Libyan, Africa, Asian, victims of governments Lavalin bribed,...here....here  is what Waldo and racist Liberal  Trudeau cult followershe hide from with this pathetic attempt to run  from  own racist agenda speaks for itself:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/andrew-coyne-the-real-scandal-in-the-lavalin-affair-is-trudeaus-attempts-to-pretend-its-not-a-scandal

“This is the scandal in the SNC-Lavalin affair. It isn’t just that the prime minister and a phalanx of other senior government officials — including his principal secretary, Gerry Butts, his chief of staff, Katie Telford, and the clerk of the Privy Council, Michael Wernick — quietly tried to derail the prosecution of a company with a long history of corruption and an even longer history of donating to the Liberal party; that they pressured the former attorney general, Jody Wilson-Raybould, to have prosecutors drop charges of fraud and corruption against the company in favour of a “remediation agreement” for which it had already been deemed ineligible; or that they did so, by the former attorney general’s account, for explicitly partisan reasons.
It isn’t that the crimes of which the company is accused — bribing officials in the bestial Gaddhafi regime in Libya, to the tune of tens of millions of dollars — makes this one of the most serious cases of alleged corporate corruption in Canadian history; or that the case is regarded as an important test of Canada’s willingness to prosecute companies alleged to have engaged in corruption overseas, as a signatory to the OECD Convention on Combating Bribery of Foreign Public Officials, after years in which we were regarded as international scofflaws.
It isn’t that the legislation providing for remediation agreements — also known as deferred prosecution agreements, they are a kind of plea bargain wherein a company admits guilt, pays a fine and restitution, but avoids a criminal conviction — had only just been passed, tucked deep inside an omnibus bill, in response to a massive public and private lobbying campaign by SNC-Lavalin; or that, when the director of Public Prosecutions, Kathleen Roussel, declined to offer the company the escape hatch it had spent so much money to obtain, it mounted yet another furious lobbying campaign to have her decision overturned.

It isn’t that when caught Justin Trudeau and his people lied about it (“the allegations are false”); that when they were done lying about it stonewalled, deflected and obfuscated; that they repeatedly smeared, or encouraged others to smear, both the former attorney general and the former Treasury Board president, Jane Philpott, who resigned from cabinet rather than participate in this sordid campaign; that they muzzled both women by selective application of solicitor-client privilege and cabinet confidentiality, even as they ignored these constraints themselves; that they shut down two parliamentary committees rather than hear all the evidence from these and other relevant witnesses; and that after all this, when there was nothing to be achieved by it but sheer humiliation, kicked them both out of caucus.
, the real scandal is the determined — and, it would appear, largely successful — campaign on the part of the prime minister and his officials to normalize their conduct: as if monkeying around with criminal prosecutions was all part of the usual give and take of cabinet government, or at worst a misunderstanding between people who “experienced situations differently.”

But it isn’t normal. More, it must not become normal. If SNC-Lavalin’s campaign had succeeded — if it were yet to succeed — it would not only mean the independence of the attorney general and that of the DPP had been compromised on this occasion, or that this particular prosecution had been improperly suppressed. It would set a precedent for every similar prosecution in future. The lesson for any large company facing criminal charges would be, not to phone their lawyers, but to phone their lobbyists, their MP, cabinet ministers, civil servants, anyone with the presumed ability to get the charges killed.

Because the arguments the government has used to justify its conduct in this affair could just as well be used in other cases. If it was all normal and above-board this time, it would surely all be normal the next. That is what makes all this so dangerous. Lying about it, covering up, at least acknowledges that something wrong was done. Whereas shrugging it off, in the prime minister’s airy fashion, clouds our very ability to tell right from wrong.

That is where the scandal is, here: less in the scandal itself, than in the attempts to pretend it is not a scandal.
Why is prosecutorial independence such a big deal? Simply, because power, unchecked, tends to be abused.

The powers of the state to investigate, arrest, charge, try, convict and ultimately imprison someone are among its gravest; they are in some sense the foundation of all of its other powers. The consequences, if such powers were to be corruptly or even mistakenly applied, are so severe that each of the institutions responsible is walled off from the others, that any errors or abuses might be contained.
Only the police may lay charges. Only prosecutors may decide whether to take those charges to trial. Only the courts may find someone guilty. And no one outside the judicial system may interfere with any of them.

This stricture applies most firmly to those most in a position to violate it: those at the apex of political power, in charge of the government that employs all these officials. The concern is obvious. People in power typically wish to use their power to entrench themselves in power. Were they to have access to any of these powers it is easy to predict how they might be used: to punish their enemies, or reward their friends. It is easy to predict, because that is how they are used, in places where police, prosecutorial and judicial independence is not the norm.

And yet it is mostly just that: a norm. Woe betide the cabinet minister who is caught phoning a judge about a case in front of him — he will be forced to resign, probably within the day. Why? Because convention decrees it.
But suppose a minister were to phone a judge, and being caught, refused to resign. Suppose instead he were to say he had a good reason. And suppose he succeeded in confusing the issue, relying on the public’s ignorance and the media’s short attention span. Not only would he have gotten away with it — he would have established the precedent.

That’s the thing about conventions: they apply only until they don’t. Each, moreover, is to some extent dependent on the others — on the broader convention that conventions are to be observed. It’s harder to insist on one convention if all the others are sliding into disuse.
All the more reason, then, to insist.

Why is prosecutorial independence such a big deal? Simply, because power, unchecked, tends to be abused

Perhaps the case for prosecutorial independence is clear enough in principle. What seems to elude many people is what it means in practice, or the necessity of certain institutional safeguards to protect it.

In the present case, there are two. The office of the Director of Public Prosecutions was established by act of Parliament in 2006 in the wake of the sponsorships scandal, with a view to making explicit the broad independence prosecutors had hitherto been afforded under the common law. The sole exception: the attorney general may direct the DPP with regard to the “initiation or conduct” of a prosecution, or even take over a prosecution altogether — provided she does so in writing, and in public, via the Canada Gazette.

The point of that last provision was to ensure such decisions would not be taken lightly. An attorney general has the power to instruct the DPP, but it is expected she will do so only in exceptional circumstances, for example in the case of an egregious error of law; otherwise little would be left of the DPP’s independence. In fact, it has never happened.

The other pillar of prosecutorial independence is the attorney general. As the DPP is (largely) independent of the AG, so the AG is intended to be independent of the rest of government; if anything the proscription on interference is more absolute. Not only is the attorney general not to be directed or instructed with regard to a particular prosecution, she may not even be pressured, by the prime minister or anyone else.

More than a convention, this has the status of a constitutional principle. Famously enunciated by a former attorney general of the United Kingdom, Sir Hartley Shawcross, in a 1951 speech to the British Parliament, the principle has been repeatedly upheld by Canadian courts.

So far as an attorney general involves herself in a decision about a particular prosecution — which is to say, almost never — she must be able to do so free of extraneous considerations, whether these be the consequences for her party, her relationship with colleagues, or her job.”

Regards Rue the Racist
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on April 09, 2019, 10:43:43 am
the sauce is... weak - so weak!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UITG7CqCbys

That's pretty definitive that he won't re-open such debates.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on April 09, 2019, 11:17:25 am
About the only thing definitive I hear in that whole clip is Rosemary's frustration at not getting any definitive answers to her questions.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 09, 2019, 11:31:02 am
Waldo

Regards Rue the Racist

(https://i.imgur.com/l7AY7oE.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/CDaQP8M.gif)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on April 09, 2019, 11:42:39 am

Can someone point to one thing raised in this thread that proves a thing? Hmmm? How about you Michael Harder? You want o cheer on Waldo-what has he presented other than subjective hero worship of Trudeau and juvenile name calling of Sheer?   

I posted about the unequal application of guilt by association only.  Scheer should make a public disavowment of association with the unsavoury right.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on April 09, 2019, 01:04:38 pm
Regards Rue the Racist

I am glad you are keeping up with your therapy sessions. Writing long inflammatory narratives is kind of like punching pillows.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on April 09, 2019, 01:07:51 pm
there wasn't even a threat to sue in the PM Trudeau lawyer's letter...


LOL

Quote
Trudeau defends lawsuit threat,

PM has delivered notice of defamation suit over SNC-Lavalin statement

Speaking about the threatened lawsuit for the first time today, Trudeau said...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-lawsuit-scheer-defamation-1.5090240
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on April 09, 2019, 01:41:43 pm
About the only thing definitive I hear in that whole clip is Rosemary's frustration at not getting any definitive answers to her questions.

And that he won't re-open the debate on Same Sex Marriage. She wanted his personal views. He probably is opposed to same-sex marriage. But like most conservatives in Canada, he knows what battles to have and what battles not to have.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on April 09, 2019, 02:31:15 pm
And that he won't re-open the debate on Same Sex Marriage. She wanted his personal views. He probably is opposed to same-sex marriage. But like most conservatives in Canada, he knows what battles to have and what battles not to have.

Somehow with all his waffling I don't trust that if he did get elected Pm that he wouldn't try to reopen those issues.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on April 09, 2019, 02:48:25 pm
Somehow with all his waffling I don't trust that if he did get elected Pm that he wouldn't try to reopen those issues.

That would be a mistake, that ship has sailed.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on April 09, 2019, 02:55:02 pm
Somehow with all his waffling I don't trust that if he did get elected Pm that he wouldn't try to reopen those issues.

And you're worried about troops in the street as well right?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on April 09, 2019, 02:58:30 pm
And you're worried about troops in the street as well right?

Harper put troops in the streets of Toronto in 2010, trampling upon our civil rights.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on April 09, 2019, 03:05:30 pm
Harper put troops in the streets of Toronto in 2010, trampling upon our civil rights.

Talking about the G20? That was actually Dalton McGuinty's doing. He passed a law infringing on civil rights.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on April 09, 2019, 03:33:19 pm
Harper put troops in the streets of Toronto in 2010, trampling upon our civil rights.

More than twice as many police officers were injured than protesters and over 40 businesses were vandalized. You mean those civil rights?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 09, 2019, 04:37:42 pm
the sauce is... weak - so weak!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UITG7CqCbys

Harper and many conservatives probably feel the same.  But Harper didn't mess with them because it would be political suicide, and Scheer isn't stupid enough to open them either.  He has his own views, he admitted as much that he's pro-life, but what matters more is what CPC policy will be.  He nor Harper won't ram their moral views on these subjects down our throats with zero tolerance for disagreement like Trudeau has.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 09, 2019, 04:40:06 pm
About the only thing definitive I hear in that whole clip is Rosemary's frustration at not getting any definitive answers to her questions.

Scheer told her he was pro-life, but said CPC policy wouldn't change the pro-choice policy (or non-policy more accurately) in Canada, since it wouldn't fly in the courts anyways as in the past, and would be political suicide.

You have to pick your battles.  They won't win on those, & they know it.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 09, 2019, 04:42:08 pm
Somehow with all his waffling I don't trust that if he did get elected Pm that he wouldn't try to reopen those issues.

Hidden agenda?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on April 09, 2019, 04:48:42 pm
Hidden agenda?

His lack of commitment could suggest one.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on April 09, 2019, 04:56:13 pm
His lack of commitment could suggest one.

Ah, the old hidden agenda again. Considering how Trudeau has backtracked on some of his biggest election promises, someone might suspect a hidden agenda.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 09, 2019, 04:58:35 pm
His lack of commitment could suggest one.

He answered the question, he said the party isn't going to re-open those issues.  I don't usually believe politicians, but he would be a fool to do so and would likely lose the next election, if any of it would even get through a court/charter challenge anyways.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on April 09, 2019, 05:00:59 pm
Other than waffling and trying to weasel around, I didn't think there was anything wrong with his comments.

He thinks the courts support both abortion and gay marriage.  He's right. 

He says his personal views are not in alignment with the law, but that the law will prevail and nothing will change.

So, what is the issue here?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on April 09, 2019, 05:02:09 pm
There are WAY bigger issues with the CPC than Scheer's personal views on social issues. 

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on April 09, 2019, 05:59:30 pm
there wasn't even a threat to sue in the PM Trudeau lawyer's letter...

Perhaps not directly, but there certainly was an implied threat that if Scheer continued on the course he set then he would be subject to one.

That being said, I agree with the "cease and desist" letter from Trudeau's lawyer; and as you have pointed out he is not the first Prime Minister to do this.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on April 09, 2019, 06:27:56 pm
Perhaps not directly, but there certainly was an implied threat that if Scheer continued on the course he set then he would be subject to one.

That being said, I agree with the "cease and desist" letter from Trudeau's lawyer; and as you have pointed out he is not the first Prime Minister to do this.

I think it was stupid but that's just me.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 09, 2019, 08:08:20 pm
I think it was stupid but that's just me.

If Scheer calls his bluff and keeps going, but Trudeau actually sues him, it will just drag the scandal on in the news even longer, doubt JT wants that.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 10, 2019, 12:13:16 am
LOL

you shot! You scored... yet another of your own goals! Re-read your linked article - any reference to or direct use of the word 'threat' is made by the author of the article... not PM Trudeau. Again, the letter is a statement of notice - a mandatory requirement before initiating legal action should that consideration actually be pursued. For all youse guys cackling about legal advice PM Trudeau is receiving, someone should tell youse guys & weakSauce that anything he might presume to leverage from Parliamentary Committee testimony to support his lies... that can't be used within a criminal trial.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on April 10, 2019, 08:02:37 am
If Scheer calls his bluff and keeps going, but Trudeau actually sues him, it will just drag the scandal on in the news even longer, doubt JT wants that.

Yeah that's why Trudeau is bluffing. But now he's gotta double down on his threats in the house. The goal is to keep this scandal in the news. Apparently even Nanos has the CPC ahead in the polls now.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on April 10, 2019, 03:13:55 pm
any reference to or direct use of the word 'threat' is made by the author of the article... not PM Trudeau.

Everyone but Waldo is using the term...   including the PM.

Quote
Trudeau said in French that if Scheer withdraws the statement, he’ll find that satisfactory and would not pursue the lawsuit further.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/there-are-consequences-for-lying-to-canadians-trudeau-on-scheer-lawsuit-threat-1.4372047

Everyone but Waldo knows this was a threat to sue!  Why so scared of the truth that you need to play silly semantic games?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on April 10, 2019, 03:19:42 pm
Ya know ... I'm just kind of overall sick of the Liberal-conservative to-and-fro political posturing that has nothing to do with good governance.

But the blatant alt-right anti-immigrant fear-mongering of Andrew Scheer is a new low!
The man's opportunism, jumping on every incident to spread fear and hatred to gain votes, is disgusting.
Is that what passes for a Christian these days?
Eta
It's extremism.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 10, 2019, 03:43:40 pm
Everyone but Waldo is using the term...   including the PM.

Everyone but Waldo knows this was a threat to sue!  Why so scared of the truth that you need to play silly semantic games?

and here... you score another own-goal! If you want to say PM Trudeau made reference to, as you say, "the term" - do so in a direct quote that includes "the term"! Don't presume upon the language used by yet another journalist.

again, the letter was a notification - as required if one were to choose to consider and eventually pursue legal action. It carried no direct threat.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on April 11, 2019, 09:02:23 am


again, the letter was a notification - as required if one were to choose to consider and eventually pursue legal action. It carried no direct threat.

The above demonstrates that Waldo believes one can be a little bit pregnant or it even simpler terms, suck and blow at the same time.

Letters of notification are indeed a legal threat. This is precisely why they are issued. I share one thing in common with Sheer. I got one years ago when I was representing a small charity and a large cult group was trying to sue it for saying it was engaged in coercive recruitment practices. I will not mention the name of the lawyer but its a small world. He never did take the charity to court.  Very few if any defamation suits end up in court. The Plaintiff would have to show damages in a quantified monetary amount.

The only damage Trudeau has is to his brain and that pre-existed anything Sheer said.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 11, 2019, 11:43:21 am
again, notwithstanding incorrect media headlines and weakSauces's drama, the letter - this letter (http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/5797966/Trudeau-to-Scheer-March-31-2019.pdf) - has no threat to sue within it. The letter's reference to, "treated as notice", is exactly that - and nothing more! The letter gave notice to Scheer in writing, specifying the matter complained of - nothing more, nothing less - no threat to sue no matter how hard Scheer insisted so during his whining presser charging PM Trudeau with being a bully!
Perhaps not directly, but there certainly was an implied threat that if Scheer continued on the course he set then he would be subject to one.

That being said, I agree with the "cease and desist" letter from Trudeau's lawyer; and as you have pointed out he is not the first Prime Minister to do this.

notwithstanding yet another failed interpretation from our resident comicInternetLawyer, member Rue, the letter itself states:
Quote
This letter will be referred to in any subsequent action and is to be treated as a notice pursuant to s. 5 of the Libel and Slander Act of Ontario
(https://i.imgur.com/DknZD7d.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on April 11, 2019, 03:48:58 pm
and here... you score another own-goal! If you want to say PM Trudeau made reference to, as you say, "the term" - do so in a direct quote that includes "the term"! Don't presume upon the language used by yet another journalist.

again, the letter was a notification - as required if one were to choose to consider and eventually pursue legal action. It carried no direct threat.

So it was a cease and desist. Clearly Sheer has no intention to cease and desist. Because it keeps the story in the news.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 12, 2019, 12:05:31 am
So it was a cease and desist. Clearly Sheer has no intention to cease and desist. Because it keeps the story in the news.

it's up to weakSauce and his "brain" trust - he's received the requisite notice. Certainly his prerogative to ignore it - to continue showcasing that his, as you say, principle aim/intent is to continue milking it! 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 12, 2019, 12:29:32 am
Once again the progressive Leftist Liberal party a day after providing funding to Loblaws but not small businesses for new fridge units
(https://i.imgur.com/uxLW8LK.png)

c'mon Andy! Loblaws is one of 50 (projected) winners within the $500 million fund available through the Low Carbon Economy Challenge - "leveraging Canadian ingenuity to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and generate clean growth in support of Canada’s clean growth and climate action plan"; specifically, the challenge is broken down into 2 streams, one of which small-medium businesses may apply/submit proposals to:

(https://i.imgur.com/lcdY091.png)

... hey weakSauce, apparently Loblaws isn't a refrigeration company and will need to rely upon local small businesses to help it retrofit, per the challenge selection, approximately 370 stores across Canada between 2019 to 2022.
Quote
In a 1/4-to-3/4 cost sharing agreement, the Liberal Government is investing up to $12 million to help the company convert the refrigeration systems to help reduce Loblaw’s annual emissions by approximately 23 per cent. By leveraging up to $36 million in investments made by Loblaw, the Government is working together with Canadian business to support ingenuity and grow Canada’s clean economy.

geezaz Andy... this is just like all those times you keep nattering on about the bigBadCarbonTax... without ever mentioning the rebates. What about the rebates weakSauce - what about the rebates! 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on April 12, 2019, 05:42:58 am


c'mon Andy! Loblaws is one of 50 (projected) winners within the $500 million fund available through the Low Carbon Economy Challenge

I did not know that.

I did know that this story should strike anyone with a smidgen of knowledge as "why is this a big deal ?"

- Companies get tax breaks all the time, for worse reasons
- Big corporations are good at getting tax breaks
- Energy efficiency is a program that garners tax breaks to achieve a purpose
- Harper had a program of tax breaks under his watch, for individuals.  These go back to the 1970s.

So ... why THIS ?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on April 12, 2019, 06:54:58 am
notwithstanding yet another failed interpretation from our resident comicInternetLawyer, member Rue, the letter itself states:(https://i.imgur.com/DknZD7d.png)

Waldo  you of course include the personal insult about me being an internet lawyer when in fact you not I play one by you cutting and pasting what you did which does not address the issue of how defamation law suits are used to threaten people.

Nothing you provided discusses or addresses the intent.

At least try provide something that backs up your argument. Can you just once?

Filing a notice of course is the first step in a defamation law suit, no one said it wasn't. The fact that it is filed shows an intent to sue.

Waldo do you think indicating to sue someone who disagrees with you is  not a threat its just a friendly exercise in discussion?

Waldo I will now address the issue you do not understand.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the right to “freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication”.

That creates a legal assumption that we are free to disagree and express disagreement over political opinions. What we also know is that if that political discussion incites violence it may trigger a criminal code violation.

In addition to inciting hatred,  other  expressions in Canada could constitute  crimes, such as perjury or distributing obscene material.

In regards  to defamation (oral =slander, written=libel), the Plaintiff who wants to sue must show both harm to his/her reputation by  a false written or oral statement about that person by the third party plus damages quantified in a monetary amount directly resulting from the statement.

If you can prove defamation it means you could prove damages in a specific amount of money as a result of in this case Sheer's statements.

It should also be noted that defamation law in Canada varies from province to province. In Ontario, for example, legislation on defamation is found in the Libel and Slander Act. Defamation can be subdivided into libel a

If you are suing for libel in Canada, you do not need to prove that you suffered damages—you only need to prove that a false statement with a permanent record was made about you to a third party, and the court will presume that damages were suffered but you still have the onus to prove your amount of damages or the court will not invent a number for you. If you are suing for slander, you usually do need to prove that damages were suffered and you suffered  financial loss.

The defences to defamation are:

1. Ythe statement was true; a true statement cannot be defamatory;

2. "absolute privilege,” which means that the communication was made in a venue where people ought to have absolute privilege to speak freely; (applies while in Parliament or giving evidence in a trial);

3. qualified privilege,” ( the communication was given in a non-malicious and well-intentioned context);

4. “fair comment,” which means that your statement was a non-malicious opinion about a matter of public interest.

In the context of two politicians arguing, Sheer would argue a combo of 3 and 4 plus that Trudeau has no way to prove financial loss.

Everyone knows this including Trudeau's lawyers. What we lawyers know and Waldo will not know because he relies on cut and paste and has never practiced law, is very rarely do any defamation law suits filed ever go to court. The act of filing the intent to sue is itself used as a warning to the other side to cool it so to speak. It makes them think twice before saying anything else.

That is the practical application of how its used as any lawyer can tell you.

Now in this case its foolish for Trudeau to have done what he did the same reason it was foolish for Harper having done the same thing in the past: no Judge is going to restrict one's political freedom of expression unless its absolutely necessary to, not to protect an individual ego, but the integrity of the legal system of politics when it deals with two politicians.

It is a given politicians disagree and debate openly and should be able to. This idea a politician  can sue another politician for a disagreement is as juvenile as Waldo's constant comments that try personally insult people. They go with the territory. A politician is expected to have thick skin.

There is one other defence to defamation many do not understand and that is that a  journalist can report false allegations if the news is urgent and of public importance, and if the journalist made an effort to verify the information. Even if that statement turns out to be false, the public the journalist will be excused from  being libel unless after he reasonably becomes aware of it not being true he keeps repeating it. This is not the case at hand.

The actual legal expression for  trying to use the threat of a law suit to shut someone up is referred to as a "libel chill" or a "slander chill" and in fact is discussed in many defamation cases.

No doubt Waldo's excuse for not being able to counter what I say now will be  another grinning black man and word count.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on April 12, 2019, 07:11:46 am
notwithstanding yet another failed interpretation from our resident comicInternetLawyer, member Rue, the letter itself states:(https://i.imgur.com/DknZD7d.png)

cite:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201508/why-narcissists-need-you-doubt-yourself

"However, some regard narcissism as a cover-up for an extreme sense of vulnerability or personal inadequacy. According to this view, narcissists insult others to feel better about themselves. They might be particularly likely to make disparaging comments when they’re feeling threatened in some way, afraid their flaws will be exposed."
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on April 12, 2019, 09:50:22 am
Who is Andrew Scheer?
Well, apparently he's figured out that being seen as consorting with white supremacists isn't helpful to him:

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/04/10/scheer-denounces-white-supremacy-after-conservative-senator-questions-threat.html
"OTTAWA—Andrew Scheer condemned “anyone who promotes racist ideology” after a Conservative senator questioned whether white supremacy was a significant threat to Canadian communities.

Scheer told reporters Wednesday that he “100 per cent” denounces anyone who “promotes white nationalism, promotes any type of extremism."
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on April 12, 2019, 10:13:33 am
Who is Andrew Scheer?
Well, apparently he's figured out that being seen as consorting with white supremacists isn't helpful to him:

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/04/10/scheer-denounces-white-supremacy-after-conservative-senator-questions-threat.html
"OTTAWA—Andrew Scheer condemned “anyone who promotes racist ideology” after a Conservative senator questioned whether white supremacy was a significant threat to Canadian communities.

Scheer told reporters Wednesday that he “100 per cent” denounces anyone who “promotes white nationalism, promotes any type of extremism."

Yeah but Hidden Agenda right?  ::)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 12, 2019, 10:55:08 am
cite:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201508/why-narcissists-need-you-doubt-yourself

"However, some regard narcissism as a cover-up for an extreme sense of vulnerability or personal inadequacy. According to this view, narcissists insult others to feel better about themselves. They might be particularly likely to make disparaging comments when they’re feeling threatened in some way, afraid their flaws will be exposed."

just a small sampling of one of your favs - many, many, many other occurrences of other "terms of endearment" you've used exist throughout the complete forum... well do ya... feel better about yourself?  ;D

Can any of you Liberal patoots do that?
My mama is dead but she taught me how to spot a liberal patoot. Early detection is crucial to prevent its spread.
You are wasting your breath. Trying to explain basic economic concepts to a liberal patoot is like explaining contraception to a devout MormonMuslimCatholicOrthodoxJewishRastafarian.
Run with Waldo and Omni and pretend you can fly. Fly fly little Liberal patoots.
What will Prof. Waldo and his buddy boy liberal patoots say to that.
Geniuses you Liberal patoots are.Sheer geniuses.
Waldo and his liberal patoots
The Liberal patoot circle seems 

with these liberal patoots in that
which you, Trudeau and your Liberal patooty friends can not erase.

Bring it on you Liberal patoots.
as well as that other Liberal patoot the Kadr loving Omni.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 12, 2019, 11:34:12 am
Nothing you provided discusses or addresses the intent.

Filing a notice of course is the first step in a defamation law suit, no one said it wasn't. The fact that it is filed shows an intent to sue.

The actual legal expression for  trying to use the threat of a law suit to shut someone up is referred to as a "libel chill" or a "slander chill" and in fact is discussed in many defamation cases.

No doubt Waldo's excuse for not being able to counter what I say now will be  another grinning black man and word count.

the intent? The intent was to... give notice - a requirement pursuant to law; to, as the letter identifies, s. 5 of the Libel and Slander Act of Ontario. Again, the letter gave notice to Scheer in writing, specifying the matter complained of. Nowhere in the letter is there any suggestion of any intent beyond the complaint notification - the letter does not offer a warning to Scheer that if he does not discontinue the specified conduct, or take certain actions, by deadlines set forth in the letter, then weakSauce would be sued. Nowhere!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 21, 2019, 11:22:39 am
Obama grieved for the Muslims in New Zealand. but didn't mention “Catholics” or “Christians” when offering condolences to the victims in the Sri Lanka Easter attacks.  Obama is clearly an anti-Christian xenophobe! [/sarcasm]

That's how silly the "omg Scheer didn't say Muslims re: New Zealand!" nonsense was.

https://twitter.com/search?q=Christians&src=tren
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 21, 2019, 05:52:13 pm
Obama grieved for the Muslims in New Zealand. but didn't mention “Catholics” or “Christians” when offering condolences to the victims in the Sri Lanka Easter attacks.  Obama is clearly an anti-Christian xenophobe! [/sarcasm]

That's how silly the "omg Scheer didn't say Muslims re: New Zealand!" nonsense was.

your whataboutism attempt is weak. By the by, are hotels places of religious worship? Notwithstanding both Muslims & Christians are significant minorities within the Sri Lankan population (70% Buddhists, 12% Hindus, 9% Muslims & 7% Christians)... and there is no history/presence of Islamic terrorists... and to-date no organizations have taken 'credit' for the hotel/church bombings.

(https://i.imgur.com/ayXEbeX.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on April 21, 2019, 05:56:48 pm
Obama grieved for the Muslims in New Zealand. but didn't mention “Catholics” or “Christians” when offering condolences to the victims in the Sri Lanka Easter attacks.  Obama is clearly an anti-Christian xenophobe! [/sarcasm]

That's how silly the "omg Scheer didn't say Muslims re: New Zealand!" nonsense was.

https://twitter.com/search?q=Christians&src=tren

"Easter worshipers" pretty much says Christian.
Shooting a mosque full of worshippers pretty much says Muslim. Scheer seemed to miss that.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 21, 2019, 06:05:42 pm
"Easter worshipers" pretty much says Christian.
Shooting a mosque full of worshippers pretty much says Muslim. Scheer seemed to miss that.

Quote from: weakSauceScheer
Freedom has come under attack in New Zealand as peaceful worshippers are targeted in a despicable act of evil. All people must be able to practice their faith freely and without fear.

you know... Freedom worshippers of the Freedom religion!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on April 21, 2019, 06:29:32 pm
"Easter worshipers" pretty much says Christian.

Nitpicking of messages is increasing:

Scheer didn't mention 'terrorism' for the NZ attack.  Trudeau didn't mention it today.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on April 21, 2019, 06:42:47 pm
Well, Trudeau doesn't think returning dual citizen ISIS members should lose their Canadian citizenship. Says a lot in itself.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 21, 2019, 11:22:58 pm
"Easter worshipers" pretty much says Christian.
Shooting a mosque full of worshippers pretty much says Muslim. Scheer seemed to miss that.

Why didn't he say Christians?  Both Obama and Scheer used the word "worshippers".  You have a double standard.

Btw, I think what both of them said is perfectly fine.  Here's Scheer's original tweets:
Quote
Freedom has come under attack in New Zealand as peaceful worshippers are targeted in a despicable act of evil. All people must be able to practice their faith freely and without fear. 1/2
    — Andrew Scheer (@AndrewScheer) March 15, 2019

    There are no words strong enough to condemn this kind of vile hatred. I am praying for peace for the families of those lost and recovery for those injured. 2/2
    — Andrew Scheer (@AndrewScheer) March 15, 2019
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 21, 2019, 11:38:42 pm
Nitpicking of messages is increasing:

Scheer didn't mention 'terrorism' for the NZ attack.  Trudeau didn't mention it today.

today... as in April 21st? That today?

(https://i.imgur.com/SouD6jH.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 21, 2019, 11:41:08 pm
Here's Scheer's original tweets:

ya ya, Scheer really 'nailed it' ... his concern for Freedom worshipers of the Freedom religion is very moving!  ;D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 21, 2019, 11:54:43 pm
Well, Trudeau doesn't think returning dual citizen ISIS members should lose their Canadian citizenship. Says a lot in itself.

your fear-mongering is right on queue... just like Scheer's/CPC - how did running an election on snitch lines against Muslims & Islamophobia work out for ya? For reference: the oft quoted estimate: "The Canadian government estimates that no more than 180 Canadians joined ISIS and other jihadist groups globally, with approximately 60 having already returned. Some believe that most Canadians were killed and that the number of those who have returned home is much lower"

Quote from: PM Trudeau
a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian

by the by, why wouldn't you want to have the option to allow these "foreign fighters" to return and potentially face criminal charges through the Canadian legal system?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on April 22, 2019, 08:26:30 am
Nitpicking of messages is increasing:

Scheer didn't mention 'terrorism' for the NZ attack.  Trudeau didn't mention it today.
Pedantry and nitpicking language is what passes for intellectualism these days, since any actual analysis of social, political, and economic systems that give rise to these problems is met with whinging about Ivory Towers. Who's benefiting from the dumbing-down of public discourse, I wonder....
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on April 22, 2019, 08:46:06 am
your fear-mongering is right on queue... just like Scheer's/CPC - how did running an election on snitch lines against Muslims & Islamophobia work out for ya? For reference: the oft quoted estimate: "The Canadian government estimates that no more than 180 Canadians joined ISIS and other jihadist groups globally, with approximately 60 having already returned. Some believe that most Canadians were killed and that the number of those who have returned home is much lower"

by the by, why wouldn't you want to have the option to allow these "foreign fighters" to return and potentially face criminal charges through the Canadian legal system?

You can have your citizenship revoked for not telling the truth on an application but going to fight against your own country for the most blood thirsty bunch of terrorists in recent memory doesn’t qualify. Countries like Australia have grown some and believe their citizenship is worth more. There you have it, potentially face charges for a potential Canadian slap on the wrist and resume your former life. Or like Khadr, collect ten million.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 24, 2019, 09:27:10 am
Canadians religious freedom is under attack?... Canadians are worshiping in fear? Who knew!

Quote from: dog-whistling Scheer
Canadians should always be free to worship without fear, and I will always fight to defend this right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6rEX1F5uXA
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on April 24, 2019, 03:00:23 pm
You can have your citizenship revoked for not telling the truth on an application
Yes, citizenship can be revoked if fraudulently obtained
Quote
but going to fight against your own country for the most blood thirsty bunch of terrorists in recent memory doesn’t qualify.
It was only proposed that dual citizens might have their Canadian citizenship revoked for tbat reason. However, that was dropped because it would be discrimination against dual citizens.
Quote
There you have it, potentially face charges for a potential Canadian slap on the wrist and resume your former life.
Surely Canada is capable of administering justice to Canadian lawbreakers?
Quote
Or like Khadr, collect ten million.
Because the Supreme Court determined that Canada violated his Constitutional rights.

It all makes sense if you pay attention to the facts.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on April 24, 2019, 03:59:54 pm
Canadians religious freedom is under attack?... Canadians are worshiping in fear? Who knew!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6rEX1F5uXA
Sweet. I assume that means he's going to protect all of these Muslims whose mosques are routinely attacked. /s
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on April 24, 2019, 04:02:37 pm
Sweet. I assume that means he's going to protect all of these Muslims whose mosques are routinely attacked. /s

Wait - did I miss the Muslim one ?  WTF
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on April 24, 2019, 10:10:03 pm
Yes, citizenship can be revoked if fraudulently obtainedIt was only proposed that dual citizens might have their Canadian citizenship revoked for tbat reason. However, that was dropped because it would be discrimination against dual citizens.Surely Canada is capable of administering justice to Canadian lawbreakers?


These people have dual citizenship and their actions have demonstrated their allegiance is not to Canada. Canada owes them nothing.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on April 25, 2019, 08:36:33 am
Sweet. I assume that means he's going to protect all of these Muslims whose mosques are routinely attacked. /s

He sure waffles around that ...
"But nothing required him to speak at last month’s “United We Roll” rally on Parliament Hill, whose stated purpose — to protest federal environmental policies on behalf of unemployed workers in the oil industry — may have been legitimate, but which had clearly been infiltrated by anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant elements. At the very least, he might have taken the opportunity of his appearance to denounce these views. He did not.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/andrew-coyne-why-does-andrew-scheer-find-it-so-difficult-to-say-the-right-thing
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 25, 2019, 10:28:13 am
These people have dual citizenship and their actions have demonstrated their allegiance is not to Canada. Canada owes them nothing.

what happens after your favoured 'removing of Canadian citizenship'... and your presumed target deportation country refuses to accept the person in question?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on April 25, 2019, 11:31:35 am
what happens after your favoured 'removing of Canadian citizenship'... and your presumed target deportation country refuses to accept the person in question?

They are also citizens of another country. It the country they were born in won't take them back for the same reason, why the hell should we? Perhaps people should consider this before they run off to join up with a bunch of murdering fanatics and go to war with the country that was good enough to give them the citizenship they asked for.


 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 25, 2019, 12:19:05 pm
They are also citizens of another country. It the country they were born in won't take them back for the same reason, why the hell should we? Perhaps people should consider this before they run off to join up with a bunch of murdering fanatics and go to war with the country that was good enough to give them the citizenship they asked for.

you still haven't answered the question. Effectively, you're positioning for 'stateless' persons... who you gonna call now?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 25, 2019, 01:00:25 pm
These people have dual citizenship and their actions have demonstrated their allegiance is not to Canada. Canada owes them nothing.

Of course many who went to fight for ISIS were born in Canada, so they can be jailed forever IMO. 

Here's the oath of citizenship:

Quote
I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

If you revoke your allegiance to the Queen of Canada and go off to fight against her, you've fundamentally broken your oath, are a traitor, and it would be fair if they lost their citizenship.  Otherwise, just throw them in jail for the rest of their lives.

Khadr is a murderer, not to mentioned a traitor and a terrorist, and yet is walking the streets, which is interesting.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 25, 2019, 01:01:43 pm
what happens after your favoured 'removing of Canadian citizenship'... and your presumed target deportation country refuses to accept the person in question?

Drop them off via parachute.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on April 25, 2019, 01:03:29 pm
They are also citizens of another country. It the country they were born in won't take them back for the same reason, why the hell should we? Perhaps people should consider this before they run off to join up with a bunch of murdering fanatics and go to war with the country that was good enough to give them the citizenship they asked for.

Honestly, it's better just to let them rot in a Canadian prison for the rest of their lives.  If we send them back to wherever they're from they could continue their terror plotting over there.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 25, 2019, 01:22:00 pm
If we send them back to wherever they're from...

just for shytes&giggles, care to speak to the practicality of your "sending them back"... the logistics - if possible, be a tad more serious than your earlier, "drop them off via parachute" gem!

on edit: waldo truth-telling - countering the CPC/Scheer politics of fear, Canadian government estimates suggest less than 10 persons are actually in the category of, "former ISIS fighters/sympathizers who have returned to Canada".
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on April 25, 2019, 03:03:20 pm
Here's the oath of citizenship:
...

If you revoke your allegiance to the Queen of Canada and go off to fight against her, you've fundamentally broken your oath, are a traitor, and it would be fair if they lost their citizenship.  Otherwise, just throw them in jail for the rest of their lives.

Khadr is a murderer, not to mentioned a traitor and a terrorist, and yet is walking the streets, which is interesting.

Which Khadr? When did you take your oath of citizenship?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on April 25, 2019, 03:07:09 pm
just for shytes&giggles, care to speak to the practicality of your "sending them back"... the logistics - if possible, be a tad more serious than your earlier, "drop them off via parachute" gem!

on edit: waldo truth-telling - countering the CPC/Scheer politics of fear, Canadian government estimates suggest less than 10 persons are actually in the category of, "former ISIS fighters/sympathizers who have returned to Canada".
Buy a ticket on the next flight of their other citizenship and send them home. We do that with people who aren't admissible to Canada every day.  The only difference is the airline wouldn't be responsible for paying for it. It would also be a hell of a lot  less expensive than years of fighting in the Canadian court system for some limp rested sentence.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on April 25, 2019, 03:08:42 pm
you still haven't answered the question. Effectively, you're positioning for 'stateless' persons... who you gonna call now?

A person with dual citizenship is not stateless if the country of his second citizenship revokes theirs.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on April 25, 2019, 03:09:48 pm
for some limp rested sentence

I am not familiar with that expression.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on April 25, 2019, 03:10:23 pm
Which Khadr? When did you take your oath of citizenship?
Khadr never took an oath either, he was born in Canada therefore his citizenship cannot be revoked.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on April 25, 2019, 03:11:06 pm
I am not familiar with that expression.

It may no longer be PC but it means weak.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on April 25, 2019, 03:21:22 pm
It may no longer be PC but it means weak.

Check your spelling
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on April 26, 2019, 11:38:54 am
Khadr never took an oath either, he was born in Canada therefore his citizenship cannot be revoked.

Yes indeed. Different case than someone who came to Canada and was naturalized as a citizen as opposed to obtaining it by birth. I clearly agree with you and Mr. Graham on this issue.

So since birth Canadians can not be deported to another nation unless that nation excepts them but either way  we still  need to ask what to do with a Canadian who engages in terrorism overseas and then wants to come back into Canada and enjoy all the rights of his country which he was violating in another country...so I would suggest for discussion purposes:

1. the member nations of the UN need to create a convention on how we treat terrorists no different then how we came up with a convention for war and another for turture and another for refugees;

2. that convention should stipulate in the case of a birth citizen who commits terrorism overseas: I- that they are either tried and convicted in the country overseas where they committed terrorism as a domestic criminal who engaged in homicide and other criminal laws of that country incorporating principles from the terrorist convention ; and/or, II- at that country's option through an  opt out clause if that country has internal concerns preventing a proper trial or incarceration a transfer of that terrorist to an international court and prison, and/or III- the terrorist is  sent back to their nation of origin if that nation consents and is  tried for crimes defined in the Criminal code based on this convention's guidelines incorporated into those laws.

Might I suggest the above could cover citizens with only one citizenship, dual or multiple citizenship, or birth citizenship, naturalized citizenship.

I appreciate what is holding up the above is a political inability to unify countries as to defining what constitutes terrorism. I also do not think children terrorists should be exempted but there could be more emphasis placed on rehabilitation with them then adult terrorists and segregating them from adult prisoners. I also would argue it is the height of extreme idiocy to think you can bring a terrorist back to Canada and send them to reducation school to learn to be democratic again.  Then again some people think pedophiles, serial rapists and serial killers are simply in need of counselling.

To respond to Mr. Graham, I like the concept of rotting but lets put  terrorists  up North where they have to build roads, or engage in other work building rural communities. If they do not want to work they have a choice, sit in a prison with no liberties. As it is in Canada people who murder are out in as little as 5 years, vote while in prison, get conjugal visits, cigarettes, and can arrange for prison sex and all the drugs they can consume. However no doubt their rights under the Charter will require they be given tanning beds.

As for Kadr the man should never have been paid a damn penny without it first being referred to the Supreme Court of Canada to decide if a person with dirty hands should be entitled to any compensation or just an apology if any... had I been a Judge and Kadr appeared before me as a basic consideration under s.718 of the Criminal Code I would have wanted to see remorse evidenced by him for what he had done before releasing him  which to this day has never provided-he has never once apologized for what he did. Next had I been the Judge I would have allowed his compensation if any to be re-routed to the children of the person he killed for their future.

Then again I think our war vets who can't get proper medical follow up services for PTSD and permanent physical wounds are a far more important consideration as to just who are the victims of a war and in need of compensation than terrorists like Kadr.  I would argue any compensation from acts of terror should go to the victims not the terrorist victimizers  which are of course first the civilians targeted, then the first responders, i.e., soldiers, rescue workers injured or maimed responding.

What that has to do with Mr. Sheer I do not know.  Yes Mr. Sheer disagreed with Trudeau's comments on bringing terrorists back and "re-educating" them, but  I think that is a non partisan issue and Trudeau's attempt to monopolize it as a Liberal agenda to welcome back terrorists as victims was as stupid as his comment about understanding the underlying causes of terrorism. You murder someone, on one level in a closed room you can tell a psychotherapist why you never resolved your issues with Papa. On another level  you need to be contained and quarantined from society and held responsible for your actions. Using the former to avoid the latter is bullshit.


Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on April 26, 2019, 12:21:35 pm
to this day has never provided-he has never once apologized for what he did

He did apologize to the widow of Chris Speer: “I’m really, really sorry for the pain I caused you and your family

Remember, Khadar was a 15 year old found in the rubble of an Afghan compound that had been bombarded by the Americans for hours. We do have a confession from him that goes beyond, but remember it was signed after years of torture and duress in Gitmo.

What specifically are you demanding of him?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 27, 2019, 02:10:01 am
;D looks like weakSauce Andy's CPC strategy team is putting the final touches on its yet to be announced, long overdue, "climate change plan" /snarc...

Scheer as the keynote speaker at an April 11th election strategy meeting held in secret at a conference event hosted by a pro-oil advocacy group called the, "Modern Miracle Network (https://www.modernmiraclenetwork.org/about)". An event attended by oil execs/governors of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers (CAPP)), supporters of federal CPC and Alberta Conservative parties, lawyers for the federal CPC party... and at least one high-profile U.S. activist/oppo researcher (Michael Roman (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/11/trump-oppo-researcher-roman-403138)) who previously worked for the Koch Brothers and most recently as a special assistant and director of special projects and research within the Trump admin.

Quote from: CPC leader Scheer in attempting to downplay the significance and intent of the meeting
I meet with people all the time. I meet with different representatives of many different types of industries

(https://i.imgur.com/cUMklCu.png)

pay-walled G&M article printed in full:

(https://i.imgur.com/5t1F7HW.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on April 27, 2019, 08:09:58 am
He did apologize to the widow of Chris Speer: “I’m really, really sorry for the pain I caused you and your family
 

@Rue - @impact has directly countered your claim - were you aware of this ?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on April 27, 2019, 09:32:31 am
Flash! Waldo is really Catherine McKenna.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 27, 2019, 11:01:08 am
Flash! Waldo is really Catherine McKenna.

geezaz wilber - such a weak response even coming from you! Why not take the opportunity to support Scheer's covert op... take the opportunity to tout this type of weakSauce's "industry regulation". This Scheer bumbling response to being asked about the 'secret conference' is weakSauce at his best:

Quote from: CPC leader Scheer in attempting to downplay the significance and intent of the meeting
I meet with people all the time. I meet with different representatives of many different types of industries
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on April 27, 2019, 12:25:22 pm
He did apologize to the widow of Chris Speer: “I’m really, really sorry for the pain I caused you and your family

Remember, Khadar was a 15 year old found in the rubble of an Afghan compound that had been bombarded by the Americans for hours. We do have a confession from him that goes beyond, but remember it was signed after years of torture and duress in Gitmo.

What specifically are you demanding of him?
Thanks for pointing that out as it does seem that, at least certain people, can conveniently ignore the actual circumstances of this, or any other case when it suits their bias.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 27, 2019, 01:05:48 pm
why is my post outlining the Scheer covert operation so dumb, chum?
(https://i.imgur.com/7oWTytR.png)

this would seem kinda important/relevant - yes? Outside, "Friendly Interest Groups", leading the charge - oh my! Is that like... yellow-vester types with a dash of Faith Goldy in the mix?
Quote
Federal Conservative Party Leader Andrew Scheer delivered a keynote address, the document showed. His national campaign director, Hamish Marshall, and veteran Conservative organizer Mark Spiro spoke on a panel about “rallying the base” by using friendly interest groups that operate independently of the party.

this as well - yes?
Quote
One session at the conference focused on deploying “litigation as a tool” to silence environmental critics and featured U.S. opposition researcher Mike Roman, who served as special assistant and director of special projects and research under Donald Trump until last year. He spoke alongside Arthur Hamilton, a lawyer with Quebec-based Resolute Forest Products, the agenda showed. Mr. Hamilton is also a lawyer for the federal Conservative Party. Resolute has waged a long-running and largely unsuccessful court battle against Greenpeace.

this too - yes? An Ipsos Polling exec - oh my!
Quote
Another panel was dubbed “Paths to federal election victory” and was led by an executive for polling firm Ipsos Public Affairs who was introduced by CAPP president Tim McMillan.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 28, 2019, 09:56:16 am
after being caught off-guard by that reporter's question, weakSauce has received his war-room talking points... going from this:

Quote from: CPC leader Scheer in attempting to downplay the significance and intent of the covert meeting
I meet with people all the time. I meet with different representatives of many different types of industries

to now this "emboldened" statement:

(https://i.imgur.com/62UvNjR.png)

but still not acknowledging why a {Koch Brothers/Trump} U.S. activist/oppo-researcher was at the meeting... or why he didn't take the opportunity to further extend upon the meetings discussion on his campaign director Hamish Marshall's plan to use so-called "Friendly Interest Groups" to lead his upcoming campaign - to further extend upon the intent behind his lil' buddy Hamish's recent mail-out to CPC supporters:

Quote
It was about raising funds for our campaign, and gathering supporters feedback on where and how they consume media, and their personal perceptions. Beyond surveying supporters’ news diet, the mail-out asks whether the party should “bypass” the news media and instead hone “an aggressive social media strategy to communicate with people directly in their homes or on their mobile devices” and whether the party “should focus on direct voter contact … that will allow us to take our message to voters unfiltered.”

It also asks whether the campaign should prioritize local and community media outlets, and invest more in advertising and a “sophisticated ground game” in order to “counter the efforts of pro-media news organizations.”

The questionnaire asks supporters to what extent they agree with the statements: “The mainstream Canadian media spend too much time covering left-wing social justice issues and not enough time reporting on the economy or international affairs,” and “When union leaders who represent news media workers attack Conservatives, it creates an undeniable conflict of interest.”


waldo emphasized perspective: "Scheer appointed {Hamish} Marshall as his campaign director for the upcoming election despite controversy over Marshall’s connections to Rebel Media, an ideological cousin of Breitbart.

Marshall ran a digital strategy company, Torch Agency, from Rebel’s Toronto office, where he also ran Scheer’s leadership campaign. While with Rebel, where he was a corporate director, Marshall and Torch helped design its outreach strategies, which included aggressively microtargeting possible supporters and donors with issue-specific campaigns — a tactic he appears to have made use of in the Conservative Party as well. Often, that outreach involved attacking the mainstream media as untrustworthy."

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 28, 2019, 11:32:49 am
geezaz weakSauceAndy... if you pull my heartstrings any harder you'll tear my aorta!  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/sukTMpx.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 29, 2019, 01:17:51 pm
just who is the CPC leader - Andrew Scheer? Why... he's the fear-mongering deceitful guy who led the conspiracy against Canada signing the UN Global Compact for Migration... that's the guy!

(https://i.imgur.com/gDVAchV.png)

Why Canada's Right Lied About The UN Migration Compact - A core argument was the deceitful claim that it infringes on state sovereignty. (https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/harald-bauder/andrew-scheer-un-migration-compact_a_23614996/)

Quote
In an era of globalization, vulnerable migrants and refugees have become an easy target to project an image of national strength. The erection of border walls between the U.S. and Mexico,on the southern edge of Europe and in other parts of the world as well as the thousands of fatalities in the Mediterranean Sea, in the U.S.-Mexican border region and along other migrant routes speak to the brutality with which states proclaim their sovereignty.

The rejection of the Global Compact of Migration by right-wing political activists is only the latest episode in this script. What is new, it seems, is the degree to which the populist right is proclaiming sovereignty based on lies, deceit and calculated misrepresentation targeting not only defenceless migrants and refugees, but the international community.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on April 29, 2019, 01:43:14 pm
geezaz weakSauceAndy... if you pull my heartstrings any harder you'll tear my aorta!  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/sukTMpx.png)

Is affordability not a real issue in regards to Carbon Pricing? It should be. The $150-$200 bribe the Liberals are giving people doesn't change that it raises the price of everything.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 29, 2019, 01:57:58 pm
Is affordability not a real issue in regards to Carbon Pricing? It should be. The $150-$200 bribe the Liberals are giving people doesn't change that it raises the price of everything.

your definition of "bribe" is what? In any case, good on ya - weakSauce Scheer is deathly afraid to mention rebates... good on ya Boges - good on ya!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on April 29, 2019, 03:19:46 pm
He did apologize to the widow of Chris Speer: “I’m really, really sorry for the pain I caused you and your family

Remember, Khadar was a 15 year old found in the rubble of an Afghan compound that had been bombarded by the Americans for hours. We do have a confession from him that goes beyond, but remember it was signed after years of torture and duress in Gitmo.

What specifically are you demanding of him?

I just read this and theair is fair he did mention the words you said which I must acknowledge and applaud. He has never renounced terrorism or admitted what he did was wrong when asked many times. The one statement as to the pain you point out is also interesting because when asked whether he would give any of his ten million to the family he caused pain to he smirked and walked away in a huff lending to the appearance he was repeating a script and was insincere. I trust that altitude my point. You were entitled to a response. Sorry I was not ignoring your relevant comment.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on April 29, 2019, 03:35:31 pm
I just read this and theair is fair he did mention the words you said which I must acknowledge and applaud. He has never renounced terrorism or admitted what he did was wrong when asked many times. The one statement as to the pain you point out is also interesting because when asked whether he would give any of his ten million to the family he caused pain to he smirked and walked away in a huff lending to the appearance he was repeating a script and was insincere. I trust that altitude my point. You were entitled to a response. Sorry I was not ignoring your relevant comment.

I see you choose to ignore the evidence (photograph as well as testimony from a US soldier, Lt.-Cmdr. Bill Kuebler, who claims Khadr did not, could not have thrown the grenade as he was buried under rubble.)
Of course he pleaded because it was the only way to get himself out of an illegal US prison in a foreign country where he was held for 8 years without any due process. Now you want him to share the restitution he was awarded. Give it up buddy!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 30, 2019, 12:07:30 am
your definition of "bribe" is what? In any case, good on ya - weakSauce Scheer is deathly afraid to mention rebates... good on ya Boges - good on ya!

hey now Boges! Nothing like massive flooding to cause Scheer to push-out the long-awaited CPC climate change plan - yes? All those month-over-month statements that kept teasing a delivery of "the plan" by this past weekend... instead weakSauce announces their plan will now be revealed prior to the end of this just opened parliamentary session... now "by June 21" - the last day of this session! Apparently, an extreme environmental impacting event has necessitated the need for the CPC to "tweak" the plan - go figure. In any case, who should be surprised Scheer will do a 'dump & run' of the plan, hey Boges?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on April 30, 2019, 05:19:22 am
hey now Boges! Nothing like massive flooding to cause Scheer to push-out the long-awaited CPC climate change plan - yes?

Sure... but can we at least stay principled and stick to the 'weather is not climate' rule when discussing events ?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on April 30, 2019, 08:33:13 am
That Weather not Climate trope convenient because whenever the weather is bad it's always climate change.

But whenever the weather is predictable and/or typical it's WEATHER NOT CLIMATE!!!

Flooding doesn't normally happen in the spring? April has only been a wet month since we started burning carbon?

I'm not saying we need don't need to ween ourselves off carbon. But using instances of bad weather as justifications for useless yet punitive taxes is not the answer.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on April 30, 2019, 09:32:30 am
Sure... but can we at least stay principled and stick to the 'weather is not climate' rule when discussing events ?
But whenever the weather is predictable and/or typical it's WEATHER NOT CLIMATE!!!

are you directing your statements to weakSauce Scheer - questioning why he/CPC pushed the reveal of their long-awaited climate change plan out another couple of months? This past weekend's 1-year anniversary of the CPC signing on to the initial Paris Agreement was long touted as the "big reveal" date... supposedly to be timed to a Quebec conference of CPC supporters. And then... such a let down when weakSauce announced the delay.

c'mon Andy, ignore all those sciency types and media enablers talking up the influence of climate change (and land use) on the increased severity and likelihood of flooding. Don't play to the optics Andy! Damnit, show Canadians the grand reveal where you promise to reduce emissions without relying upon that wascally carbon tax thingee! Be bold weakSauce, be bold!

(https://i.imgur.com/GtrkN6f.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on April 30, 2019, 02:13:49 pm
Flooding doesn't normally happen in the spring? April has only been a wet month since we started burning carbon?

I have to agree there. There are other weather trends we can more closely link to climate change, but spring flooding seems to be a very weak one. Perhaps there are year over year total rainfall differences that may help account for something, but the flooding by itself does not seem to stand up. The biggest contributor to spring flooding is heavy snow pack (not just snowfall, but cold winter to keep it building up), and relative quick warming in early spring.

The areas north of Montreal that have flooded in 2017 and this year are not unheard of before. When I was young (60's, 70's), we used to head up north to camp and many years that I passed through these areas they were flooded. The borough of Montreal I am in used to flood 100 years ago, and then they build a dyke and stopped it. There was a big flood in '54, that I wasn't around for but have talked to others who were. The dyke was extended after that, and there has not been flooding here since.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 01, 2019, 12:31:55 pm
Is affordability not a real issue in regards to Carbon Pricing? It should be. The $150-$200 bribe the Liberals are giving people doesn't change that it raises the price of everything.

further to your as yet undefined (by you) term, 'bribe': just days old now, the PBO's report states that, "only the richest 20% of Canadians will pay more carbon tax than they will get in rebates"... you know, cause that 20% pollutes more given lifestyle choices, disposable income, etc..

are you lobbying for your boy Scheer to drop carbon pricing in favour of those richest 20% of Canadians... to put an end to all those dastardly bribes? Is that what you're suggesting Boges?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on May 01, 2019, 01:17:56 pm
further to your as yet undefined (by you) term, 'bribe': just days old now, the PBO's report states that, "only the richest 20% of Canadians will pay more carbon tax than they will get in rebates"... you know, cause that 20% pollutes more given lifestyle choices, disposable income, etc..

are you lobbying for your boy Scheer to drop carbon pricing in favour of those richest 20% of Canadians... to put an end to all those dastardly bribes? Is that what you're suggesting Boges?

I'm not sure how you budget, but getting a $150 gift from JT doesn't change the fact that your gas prices are going up. People will probably spend that money one thing, or save it.

It's a bribe. Hey look over here, we're giving you the money we're taking away back! Then what's the point? No one is actually going to stop driving where they need to go because of this. And if they did the economy would suffer for it.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2019, 01:24:52 pm
I'm not sure how you budget, but getting a $150 gift from JT doesn't change the fact that your gas prices are going up. People will probably spend that money one thing, or save it.

It's a bribe. Hey look over here, we're giving you the money we're taking away back! Then what's the point? No one is actually going to stop driving where they need to go because of this. And if they did the economy would suffer for it.

The point is that people will reduce the time they spend on the road when they don't have to. Yes you may need to drive to work but pick up the groceries on the way home instead of going home first and then back to the store. And by doing so most people will find the tax to be neutral or they may actually benefit.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on May 01, 2019, 01:28:43 pm
The point is that people will reduce the time they spend on the road when they don't have to. Yes you may need to drive to work but pick up the groceries on the way home instead of going home first and then back to the store. And by doing so most people will find the tax to be neutral or they may actually benefit.

That's negligible gas usage.

It's assumed people use gasoline for reckless purposes. But the truth is, people use it to go to work and perhaps some recreational activities on their off time, which contribute to the economy.

These examples of people driving when they can walk are strawmen.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2019, 01:31:21 pm
That's negligible gas usage.

It's assumed people use gasoline for reckless purposes. But the truth is, people use it to go to work and perhaps some recreational activities on their off time, which contribute to the economy.

These examples of people driving when they can walk are strawmen.

People can decide to use their cars more efficiently. The walking vs driving comment is the actual strawman here.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on May 01, 2019, 01:35:04 pm
People can decide to use their cars more efficiently. The walking vs driving comment is the actual strawman here.

Most people already do that. But when you have to commute, you have to commute.

What will reduce emissions is more efficient technology and a push to achieve that.

Then we have empty carpool lanes which actually could be used more efficiently if they were opened up to the public.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2019, 01:50:40 pm
Most people already do that. But when you have to commute, you have to commute.

What will reduce emissions is more efficient technology and a push to achieve that.

Then we have empty carpool lanes which actually could be used more efficiently if they were opened up to the public.

I don't know if most people already do that but they will be enticed to do so and has been pointed out, most will actually save money if they do so, given the rebate structure.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on May 01, 2019, 02:13:40 pm
Bribe.

That money is probably already spent. And people will still feel increased costs of essential goods.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2019, 02:39:27 pm
Bribe.

That money is probably already spent. And people will still feel increased costs of essential goods.

You can call it a bribe or whatever blows your hair back. Let's see how effective it is.
If you want to see a real bribe, go take a look at what trump did with corp. tax rate.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on May 01, 2019, 03:45:57 pm
If you want to see a real bribe, go take a look at what trump did with corp. tax rate.

You won't find me defending what Trump does.

I am of the opinion that Carbon pricing is an rather ineffective strategy in weening us off Carbon. Because we've built societies around using Carbon to get around. So small penalties for using carbon will just be absorbed.

The real way to change behaviour is providing affordable alternatives, which governments seem crappy at doing.

FIT's on very expensive cars and electricity methods don't count. These solutions have to be attainable for a good portion of the population.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2019, 04:06:47 pm
You won't find me defending what Trump does.

I am of the opinion that Carbon pricing is an rather ineffective strategy in weening us off Carbon. Because we've built societies around using Carbon to get around. So small penalties for using carbon will just be absorbed.

The real way to change behaviour is providing affordable alternatives, which governments seem crappy at doing.

FIT's on very expensive cars and electricity methods don't count. These solutions have to be attainable for a good portion of the population.

These things don't just happen overnight. Just look back through history when the horseless carriage first came to be. None but the wealthy could afford them but we managed to get over a billion on the road over time. It will take some time to wean ourselves off of them as well. But it is worthwhile to do so.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 01, 2019, 04:38:51 pm
Carbon tax makes sense only if there's viable alternatives to using carbon.  Is there EV farm equipment/tractors?  EV trucks for shipping?  EV airplanes?

A carbon tax will be more useful in future years when such technology becomes more available, and runs on a power grid that uses less fossil fuel.

I don't know much about the nuts and bolts of the carbon tax.  Canada makes up less than 2% of global carbon emissions.  What are the costs associated with the tax, and what are the benefits, and factoring them both, is it worth the extra cost to living?  Is the tax going to make a difference in global CO2?  If it does, are the costs worth the economic drain?  What are the projections of global CO2 savings for this tax?

Somebody in this thread is going to try to answer that question but I doubt they have any idea. If the Liberals and provincial govs are going to sell the idea of the tax, then hammer these #'s home to taxpayers, if they even know them. All I've seen the gov do thus far is scare people with reports that Canada will be more affected by CC, but that has no connection to the actual effectiveness of this tax policy, which leads me to think that the tax probably has more to do with Trudeau-ish naive do-goodery & virtue signalling than actual efficacy.  The avg taxpayer only knows that it now costs more to live and do business.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on May 01, 2019, 04:40:39 pm
Carbon tax makes sense only if there's viable alternatives to using carbon.

Yes, the bus, bike, and your feet are a very viable alternative that have been around for centuries, centuries, and eons.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2019, 05:13:49 pm
Carbon tax makes sense only if there's viable alternatives to using carbon.  Is there EV farm equipment/tractors?  EV trucks for shipping?  EV airplanes?

A carbon tax will be more useful in future years when such technology becomes more available, and runs on a power grid that uses less fossil fuel.

I don't know much about the nuts and bolts of the carbon tax.  Canada makes up less than 2% of global carbon emissions.  What are the costs associated with the tax, and what are the benefits, and factoring them both, is it worth the extra cost to living?  Is the tax going to make a difference in global CO2?  If it does, are the costs worth the economic drain?  What are the projections of global CO2 savings for this tax?

Somebody in this thread is going to try to answer that question but I doubt they have any idea. If the Liberals and provincial govs are going to sell the idea of the tax, then hammer these #'s home to taxpayers, if they even know them. All I've seen the gov do thus far is scare people with reports that Canada will be more affected by CC, but that has no connection to the actual effectiveness of this tax policy, which leads me to think that the tax probably has more to do with Trudeau-ish naive do-goodery & virtue signalling than actual efficacy.  The avg taxpayer only knows that it now costs more to live and do business.

Yes there ARE EV farm equipment, (John Deere is a leader) delivery trucks, and Harbor Air has recently refitted a Beaver to be an EV airplane. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 01, 2019, 05:22:19 pm
Yes, the bus, bike, and your feet are a very viable alternative that have been around for centuries, centuries, and eons.

You cut my quote off.  Is there EV farm equipment/tractors?  EV trucks for shipping?  EV airplanes?

If there's not viable alternatives to those, you're just making cost of living more expensive.  Adding carbon tax to airplane travel is the government saying airplane travel is bad, so we're going to disincentivize you from traveling outside the continent by making business and vacations outside the continent more expensive.   

There's also a ton of places in this country, and especially in this country (namely rural), where transportation by bus, bike, or walking is not possible.  Just about every rural person living in this country, including aboriginals, who need to drive into town to buy things because there's no buses just got effed by this government.  They also made most everything more expensive to buy, so poor people and aboriginals again are effed, along with everyone else.  If your economy runs on fossil fuels, you're taxing life.

Now let's say this carbon tax miraculously reduces Canada's CO2 output by an astonishing 20%.  That would reduce the global CO2 output by about 0.3, which would do next to nothing to combat climate change.

Personally, I think we should focus on things every Canadian can do that will cost them nothing or virtually nothing, like installing lights in new/renovated buildings/homes that turn off automatically when you leave the room, or having a switch running to the breaker box you turn off when you go to bed or leave the house that switches off all unnecessary circuits, ie: laundry room.  We need a system that makes a difference yet leaves Alberta oil and farmer Joe's tractor alone, because the world needs requires those and they can't be replaced anytime soon.  But alas every party in Parliament is headed by morons.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on May 01, 2019, 05:31:13 pm
There's also a ton of places in this country, and especially in this country (namely rural), where transportation by bus, bike, or walking is not possible.  Just about every rural person living in this country, including aboriginals, who need to drive into town to buy things because there's no buses just got effed by this government.

Yes, we have been investing heavily over the past century on making living in rural areas highly dependent on personal vehicles. Time to stop that waste, and make proper investments.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 01, 2019, 05:57:59 pm
Yes there ARE EV farm equipment, (John Deere is a leader) delivery trucks, and Harbor Air has recently refitted a Beaver to be an EV airplane.

How expensive are they?  How much carbon does the energy grids powering these EVs use?  Will companies who switch to them be put out of business by companies who don't?  Will countries whose companies don't use EV kick our asses in the global market and again put our businesses out of business, or at least put our economy in the shit tank?

Ahh the tragedy of the commons.

EVs are coming.  They'll be here soon and be bought by us when the market decides they're ready.  What makes me sleep at night is knowing that in 100 years humans will have the technology to create glaciers, re-freeze the arctic, repair/recreate the barrier reef, and restock the oceans with purple elephants with gills if we want.

I don't wish this to be the case, I'm just the messenger.  I accepted years ago that utopian dreams are for naive well-meaning fools who haven't taken the time to figure out that reality sometimes doesn't match what we want our perfect world to be. 

Sincerely,
a former Marxist sympathizer (unlike Trudeau Sr and Jr, who never stopped being Marxist sympathizers)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 01, 2019, 06:04:52 pm
Yes, we have been investing heavily over the past century on making living in rural areas highly dependent on personal vehicles. Time to stop that waste, and make proper investments.

Let's murder all rural people by making them starve and freeze.

Poonlight, THE KING IN THE NORTH!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on May 01, 2019, 06:54:42 pm
The point is that people will reduce the time they spend on the road when they don't have to. Yes you may need to drive to work but pick up the groceries on the way home instead of going home first and then back to the store. And by doing so most people will find the tax to be neutral or they may actually benefit.

You don't think people already do that?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2019, 08:05:43 pm
You don't think people already do that?

They do here in BC where the carbon tax has been revenue neutral and emissions have been reduced.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2019, 08:08:31 pm
How expensive are they?  How much carbon does the energy grids powering these EVs use?  Will companies who switch to them be put out of business by companies who don't?  Will countries whose companies don't use EV kick our asses in the global market and again put our businesses out of business, or at least put our economy in the shit tank?

Ahh the tragedy of the commons.

EVs are coming.  They'll be here soon and be bought by us when the market decides they're ready.  What makes me sleep at night is knowing that in 100 years humans will have the technology to create glaciers, re-freeze the arctic, repair/recreate the barrier reef, and restock the oceans with purple elephants with gills if we want.

I don't wish this to be the case, I'm just the messenger.  I accepted years ago that utopian dreams are for naive well-meaning fools who haven't taken the time to figure out that reality sometimes doesn't match what we want our perfect world to be. 

Sincerely,
a former Marxist sympathizer (unlike Trudeau Sr and Jr, who never stopped being Marxist sympathizers)

EV's are here and we are already buying them. and maybe you should go back to sleep and visit your purple elephants.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on May 01, 2019, 09:37:50 pm
They do here in BC where the carbon tax has been revenue neutral and emissions have been reduced.

Not anymore, Horgan has put the carbon tax into the general revenue pot. He has to get the rest of the province to pay for removing those bridge tolls somehow, not to mention getting rid of MSP premiums. Oops, I just did.

The same will happen to the federal carbon tax, that revenue will be just to tempting not to raid, particularly if a government is running deficits.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2019, 09:53:09 pm
Not anymore, Horgan has put the carbon tax into the general revenue pot. He has to get the rest of the province to pay for removing those bridge tolls somehow, not to mention getting rid of MSP premiums. Oops, I just did.

The same will happen to the federal carbon tax, that revenue will be just to tempting not to raid, particularly if a government is running deficits.

My idea would be to go ahead and build the pipeline but to steer the royalties not into gen. rev. but into weaning us off of pipelines. Gonna happen sooner or later, not even Trump is stupid enough not to understand that.

Ah well wait one on that. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 01, 2019, 10:48:34 pm
EV's are here and we are already buying them. and maybe you should go back to sleep and visit your purple elephants.

Gary says hi.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on May 01, 2019, 11:00:42 pm
EV's are here and we are already buying them. and maybe you should go back to sleep and visit your purple elephants.

They are but the closest thing to what I drive in an EV costs nearly 40K more.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2019, 11:46:06 pm
They are but the closest thing to what I drive in an EV costs nearly 40K more.

Not sure what you drive or what planet you live on but a Chevy Volt doesn't cost 40k more. It costs about 40k brand new.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 01, 2019, 11:47:29 pm
Gary says hi.

Hi. Now back to sleep you go.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 02, 2019, 12:29:28 am
further to your as yet undefined (by you) term, 'bribe': just days old now, the PBO's report states that, "only the richest 20% of Canadians will pay more carbon tax than they will get in rebates"... you know, cause that 20% pollutes more given lifestyle choices, disposable income, etc..

are you lobbying for your boy Scheer to drop carbon pricing in favour of those richest 20% of Canadians... to put an end to all those dastardly bribes? Is that what you're suggesting Boges?

I'm not sure how you budget, but getting a $150 gift from JT doesn't change the fact that your gas prices are going up. People will probably spend that money one thing, or save it.

It's a bribe. Hey look over here, we're giving you the money we're taking away back! Then what's the point? No one is actually going to stop driving where they need to go because of this. And if they did the economy would suffer for it.

I'm not saying we need don't need to ween ourselves off carbon.

Boges, you're not saying? Just what are you saying then? As just one of the 'tools in tool chest', carbon pricing sets a price on pollution. The initial setting presumes not all tools are in place and/or meeting their full intent/goals. You emphasized affordability and yet you belittle rebates (and the program proper) by throwing around your "bribe" labeling. Rebates are a management aspect to help (some people more than others) with that affordability aspect you highlighted.

as an aside, you may want to reacquaint yourself, while giving a heads-up to weakSauce Scheer, with just how carbon pricing came about. Not in a Liberal government vacumn as CPC supporters like to project upon; rather, as a part of the broad Pan-Canadian Framework on Clean Growth and Climate Change developed by Federal, Provincial, Territorial government representatives and Indigenous representatives... that itself stemmed from a First Ministers conference and an accompanying Vancouver Declaration - a part of which speaks directly to carbon pricing; specifically:
Quote
First Ministers commit to:

- Transition to  a low carbon economy by adopting a broad range of domestic measures, including carbon pricing  mechanisms, adapted to each province's and territory's  specific circumstances, in particular the realities of Canada's Indigenous  peoples and Arctic and sub-Arctic regions. The transition also requires that  Canada engage internationally;
-
-

but again Boges, why the additional 2-month delay from Scheer in releasing the much touted/anticipated 'climate change plan'... why the apparent need to "re-tool" the Scheer/CPC Climate Change Plan? And will it contain carbon pricing Boges... with, as you say, associated "bribes"?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on May 02, 2019, 05:48:26 am
why the additional 2-month delay from Scheer in releasing the much touted/anticipated 'climate change plan'... why the apparent need to "re-tool" the Scheer/CPC Climate Change Plan? And will it contain carbon pricing Boges... with, as you say, associated "bribes"?

It's not easy to devise a strategy that will reel in the nutty 'Climate Change doesn't exist because it's snowing' types while still have some kind of Climate Change plan in place.  I'm hoping it's impossible. 

It's fascinating that the troll bots are now disparaging Bernier, the very candidate who should be natural for the Muslim-hating, Climate-hating demographic.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on May 02, 2019, 09:01:21 am
Not sure what you drive or what planet you live on but a Chevy Volt doesn't cost 40k more. It costs about 40k brand new.

I’m talking about an electric equivalent to what I drive. Neither the Volt or the Bolt is the equivalent of an Audi Q5 which about the size of a Honda CRV. Besides, GM has discontinued the Volt. Nor do they get 700 km on a charge or can be recharged just about anywhere in ten minutes.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on May 02, 2019, 09:27:52 am
My idea would be to go ahead and build the pipeline but to steer the royalties not into gen. rev. but into weaning us off of pipelines. Gonna happen sooner or later, not even Trump is stupid enough not to understand that.

Ah well wait one on that.

Using that logic they should be doing the same with the Carbon tax.

Better still then a tax why not tax deductions. Nothing gets dinosaur companies to innovate to newer methods faster than tax incentives not penalties as history has shown.

That said tax incentives have to be used fairly for all businesses and not just friends of the government in power.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 02, 2019, 11:33:09 am
My idea would be to go ahead and build the pipeline but to steer the royalties not into gen. rev. but into weaning us off of pipelines. Gonna happen sooner or later, not even Trump is stupid enough not to understand that.

Weaning the global markets off pipelines/oil is beyond Canada's control.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 02, 2019, 11:42:40 am
Weaning the global markets off pipelines/oil is beyond Canada's control.

ya ya, tell that to Jason Kenney and his 'turn-off-the taps' (constitutional crisis in the making) approach!  ;D That this ass-wipe resorts to claiming, "there is a growing crisis of national unity in Alberta", is yet another Conservative government ploy to stoke fear and purposeful division. And where's the MIA weakSauce Scheer in calling out these types of Kenney antics. C'mon Andy, don't wait for your lil' buddy Hamish to give you the research/focus group talking points - be a leader weakSauce, be a leader!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 02, 2019, 11:50:14 am
Weaning the global markets off pipelines/oil is beyond Canada's control.

My point being, as I have made numerous times, is there is a last barrel of oil. Will we be stupid enough to wait for that one to be hit before we look around for other sources of energy, or will we be a little more intelligent and do it sooner.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 02, 2019, 12:34:34 pm
My point being, as I have made numerous times, is there is a last barrel of oil. Will we be stupid enough to wait for that one to be hit before we look around for other sources of energy, or will we be a little more intelligent and do it sooner.

Supply and demand means that if supply of oil becomes scarce the price would skyrocket, & then we'd have no choice but to look to other sources of energy.  We don't need government to do what the market is already really good at doing. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 02, 2019, 12:48:07 pm
Supply and demand means that if supply of oil becomes scarce the price would skyrocket, & then we'd have no choice but to look to other sources of energy.  We don't need government to do what the market is already really good at doing.

So why wait until then to do something about it, but thanks for helping make my point. And oh btw, oil companies make prices skyrocket regardless of supply. Politics can do the same which is why the price of gas in YVR is ~$1.71 right now.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on May 02, 2019, 01:51:10 pm
What makes me sleep at night is knowing that in 100 years humans will have the technology to create glaciers, re-freeze the arctic, repair/recreate the barrier reef, and restock the oceans with purple elephants with gills if we want.

I bet you are the kind of person who puts an air conditioner inside your living room - self contained inside, with no heat exhaust to the outside.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on May 02, 2019, 02:02:12 pm
We are the new super hero's, thinking we can save the world by preventing other people from living like us.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 02, 2019, 02:19:47 pm
I bet you are the kind of person who puts an air conditioner inside your living room - self contained inside, with no heat exhaust to the outside.

I have 5 of those in my bathroom.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 02, 2019, 02:57:47 pm
So why wait until then to do something about it, but thanks for helping make my point.

Well I think we are doing something about it, ie: companies researching and developing EV technology and renewable energy etc.  Governments can help fund or give tax breaks etc for r&d and all sorts of incentives, but these are nudges, not enough to make a critical mass of people start seriously changing their behaviour enough to make a significant difference.

Whether Canada has a carbon tax or not won't have much impact on AGW.  The tax would have to be much higher for enough people to start significantly changing their behaviour, and would have to be implemented in enough countries to make a dent.  Carbon taxes that high would screw up economies, which is why it's not being done.  Hence, we're in the effed situation we find now.

Quote
And oh btw, oil companies make prices skyrocket regardless of supply. Politics can do the same which is why the price of gas in YVR is ~$1.71 right now.

Oil companies and OPEC etc set the price of oil/gas to what people are willing to pay.  It would be good for the environment if they set the price of oil/gas high so that people will be more likely to switch to EVs, hybrids etc., but of course they would lose business so would never do that.  Governments can raise the price of gas, it's just going to make things more expensive until technology catches up & degrade our international trade competitiveness.

I'm a pessimist on whether governments can fix this problem (i'm not anti-government for its own sake, they helped phase out CFC's, sometimes they can make a big difference, i just think this is a much different & infinitely more complex problem). I'm an optimist on whether the super smart people in the private sector can fix AGW.

We survived the ozone holes, acid rain, african killer bees, the cold war & mutually assured destruction, H1N1, Ebola, SARS, Y2K, and every other doomsday scenario, almost all thanks to science & tech.  We need to chillax.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on May 02, 2019, 02:59:40 pm
We survived the ozone holes, acid rain, african killer bees, the cold war & mutually assured destruction, H1N1, Ebola, SARS, Y2K, and every other doomsday scenario, almost all thanks to science & tech.  We need to chillax.

Yes, because we acted. We don't survive by sticking our head in the sand.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on May 02, 2019, 03:05:27 pm
Yes, because we acted. We don't survive by sticking our head in the sand.
The only reason anything was done is the problem could be solved by regulating a small number of large chemical manufacturers in developed countries that had already created a commercially viable alternative when the treaty was signed. CO2 emissions come from everywhere and there are no real alternatives for the majority of our energy needs. No amount of huffing and puffing will change that reality.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on May 02, 2019, 04:21:09 pm
We replaced CFC's with HFC's. HFC's don't harm the ozone layer but are a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2 with a very long life span. Now they are trying to find something to replace HFC's which isn't highly flammable. The law of unintended consequences strikes again.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 02, 2019, 09:43:52 pm
Yes, because we acted. We don't survive by sticking our head in the sand.

We're not sticking our head in the sand.  A gazillion companies spending gazillions in R&D with some of the brightest minds in the world are doing their best to create new technologies that will replace fossil fuels specifically for this problem, along with all sorts of carbon-saving gizmos.  Lots of individuals are also trying to do their part, and governments are doing different things too.

If you and Omni and AOC want to force entire nations to completely transform how it uses energy before people & companies actually want to because it would be very expensive, well that's a well-intentioned but unrealistic pipe-dream (pun intended).
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 02, 2019, 10:05:36 pm
We're not sticking our head in the sand.  A gazillion companies spending gazillions in R&D with some of the brightest minds in the world are doing their best to create new technologies that will replace fossil fuels specifically for this problem, along with all sorts of carbon-saving gizmos.  Lots of individuals are also trying to do their part, and governments are doing different things too.

If you and Omni and AOC want to force entire nations to completely transform how it uses energy before people & companies actually want to because it would be very expensive, well that's a well-intentioned but unrealistic pipe-dream (pun intended).

There are many nations, including the US who are making major strides toward developing renewables before they get caught with their pants down.
I don't think they're doing it because I asked them to.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 02, 2019, 10:33:24 pm
There are many nations, including the US who are making major strides toward developing renewables before they get caught with their pants down.
I don't think they're doing it because I asked them to.

Yes, and my point is they'll keep doing it regardless of which POTUS or party in Congress is in power.  Technology got us into this mess & I'm pretty confident it will get us out.  The technology we'll have in a few decades is unfathomable.  Governments can help things along, especially the USA because of its size & wealth & carbon output, but the difference between Scheer & Trudeau's plans on climate will have negligible impact on a global-scale problem.

I think Canada can have a much, much larger impact on how we care for our lakes, rivers, soil etc. because we can control that.  IMO the biggest difference Canada would see in Canada cutting fossil fuels is cleaner air, not necessarily slowing down AGW.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 02, 2019, 10:43:01 pm
Yes, and my point is they'll keep doing it regardless of which POTUS or party in Congress is in power.  Technology got us into this mess & I'm pretty confident it will get us out.  The technology we'll have in a few decades is unfathomable.  Governments can help things along, especially the USA because of its size & wealth & carbon output, but the difference between Scheer & Trudeau's plans on climate will have negligible impact on a global-scale problem.

I think Canada can have a much, much larger impact on how we care for our lakes, rivers, soil etc. because we can control that.  IMO the biggest difference Canada would see in Canada cutting fossil fuels is cleaner air, not necessarily slowing down AGW.

 The US for one is doing it regardless of the current POTUS who thinks it would be a good idea to reopen the coal mines. Luckily there are people who actually passed science class in charge of things.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 03, 2019, 12:14:59 am
ya ya, tell that to Jason Kenney and his 'turn-off-the taps' (constitutional crisis in the making) approach!  ;D That this ass-wipe resorts to claiming, "there is a growing crisis of national unity in Alberta", is yet another Conservative government ploy to stoke fear and purposeful division. And where's the MIA weakSauce Scheer in calling out these types of Kenney antics. C'mon Andy, don't wait for your lil' buddy Hamish to give you the research/focus group talking points - be a leader weakSauce, be a leader!

as I'm aware, this tweet from today is the only public comment Scheer has made toward/about Alberta Premier Kenney since mid-April when he endorsed and campaigned in Alberta for Kenney. A comment coming right in the throes of Kenney's foray into divisive separatist stokin' rhetoric, this is quite the show of weakSauce "leadership"! Bold Andy, so bold!
(https://i.imgur.com/LnQUnlr.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 03, 2019, 10:36:10 am
as I'm aware, this tweet from today is the only public comment Scheer has made toward/about Alberta Premier Kenney since mid-April when he endorsed and campaigned in Alberta for Kenney. A comment coming right in the throes of Kenney's foray into divisive separatist stokin' rhetoric, this is quite the show of weakSauce "leadership"! Bold Andy, so bold!
(https://i.imgur.com/LnQUnlr.png)

you sayin' you want a piece of me?  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/BTeuzdV.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 04, 2019, 03:29:50 am
(https://i.imgur.com/LnQUnlr.png)

c'mon Andy! Given this, your 'all-in' pronouncement to fight with Jason Kenney, you can't keep quiet on the days old carbon tax court ruling by the Saskatchewan Court of Appeal - be a leader weakSauce, be a leader!

you know weakSauce Andy, that federal carbon tax on fuel that was only applied to Saskatchewan, Ontario, New Brunswick and Manitoba on April 1; only applied as those province’s climate plans did not meet the federal backstop, $20 per tonne of CO2, growing to $50 per tonne in 2022. That federal carbon tax that the Saskatchewan Court of Appeal ruled the federal government does have the constitutional power to implement in provinces that don’t meet Ottawa’s minimum price.

so, of course, even though Alberta isn't in that mix of the 4 provinces (Saskatchewan, Ontario, New Brunswick and Manitoba) that had the federal carbon tax implemented, Premier Jason Kenney felt the need to extend upon his 1st week of "rabble-rousing" to interject the Province of Alberta into a Supreme Court challenge of that Saskatchewan court ruling - of course he did!

but c'mon Scheer - surely given your posturing as the national leader Canada so desperately needs, you must have an opinion/comment on the court ruling - yes Andy? Why so quiet Scheer, why so quiet?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 04, 2019, 06:34:39 pm
Scheer's nailing down the big-ticket items in the CPC election platform!  ;D ... a plan to save the average Canadian homeowner ~$9/month by removing GST from home-heating costs. Bold move weakSauce, bold move! Not quite up to the profile of Buck-a-Beer, but still...

(https://i.imgur.com/sOxVv7T.png)

wait, what? You have time for such a "bold move", yet needed to push out delivery of your much touted "climate change plan" yet another 2 months?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 04, 2019, 07:03:27 pm
Waldo are you interested in discussing Scheer in any constructive way or are you just interested in smearing the man you obviously can't stand until October?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 04, 2019, 07:09:09 pm
Waldo are you interested in discussing Scheer in any constructive way or are you just interested in smearing the man you obviously can't stand until October?

why so defensive, hey? Just what are YOU waiting for in your apparent pent-up want/need to, "constructively discuss" Scheer, aka weakSauce Andy? Do you need an invite, or what?  ;D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 04, 2019, 07:28:07 pm
I've been posting in this thread about weakSauce Andy.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 05, 2019, 11:25:08 am
I've been posting in this thread about weakSauce Andy.

for someone, YOU, so cryin' out to discuss your boy Scheer in a, "constructive way"... this reply is all you can muster? Yeesh!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 05, 2019, 11:29:08 am
Honestly, from one article in the OP we're not going to know the whole story here.  What happens between Israel and Palestinians is complex and has al sorts of context.

recent weakSauce tweet complaining about the Liberal government {PM Trudeau... "He"} restoring funding to UNRWA (The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East)

(https://i.imgur.com/amDHYpT.png)

seems Scheer has ignored your stated, "complexity and all sorts of context" - yes?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 05, 2019, 01:17:01 pm
seems Scheer has ignored your stated, "complexity and all sorts of context" - yes?

It's possible, I don't know anything about the agency.  It's also possible Trudeau's gov ignored the complexity too, if Scheer's claims have any validity.  Two different narratives, the truth could lie somewhere in the middle.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on May 05, 2019, 02:41:35 pm
recent weakSauce tweet complaining about the Liberal government {PM Trudeau... "He"} restoring funding to UNRWA (The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East)

(https://i.imgur.com/amDHYpT.png)

seems Scheer has ignored your stated, "complexity and all sorts of context" - yes?

Seems like this is  about ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas%E2%80%93UNRWA_Holocaust_dispute
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on May 05, 2019, 03:15:33 pm
It has been a long time since I watched Question Period, but it appears to me that the Sheer Conservatives are a bunch of children. Whenever Sheer asked a question, there was respect from the entire house. When Trudeau attempted to respond, we had jeers and catcalls from the babies in blue. When Singh asked a question there was also childish banter, and my best guess as to the source is also the Sheer gang of toddlers. It is time the CPC grew up.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on May 05, 2019, 09:25:15 pm
It has been a long time since I watched Question Period, but it appears to me that the Sheer Conservatives are a bunch of children. Whenever Sheer asked a question, there was respect from the entire house. When Trudeau attempted to respond, we had jeers and catcalls from the babies in blue. When Singh asked a question there was also childish banter, and my best guess as to the source is also the Sheer gang of toddlers. It is time the CPC grew up.

Sounds to me like question period hasn't changed a bit in the last 50 years.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 06, 2019, 12:11:11 am
It's possible, I don't know anything about the agency.  It's also possible Trudeau's gov ignored the complexity too, if Scheer's claims have any validity.  Two different narratives, the truth could lie somewhere in the middle.

this is you... discussing "constructively" the actions/policy of your boy Scheer? Here I was thinking you'd step-up and make a support case for Harper's 2010 removal of funding to the UN agency... which, of course, is just what Scheer is parroting - don't ever acuse weakSauce of having an original thought!

you summarily wrap Israel/Palestine 'happenings' into a trite description you refer to as... "complexity and all sorts of context". And you won't even try to support your boy Scheer's call out of the Liberal government/PM Trudeau reinstating the funding Harper removed. Yeesh!

those Hamas ties are allegations - one side denies some of the UNRWA funding gets siphoned off by Hamas; the other side states there is irrefutable evidence. What the Liberal government did is put in place conditional funding tied to strict oversight and spending accountability of Canadian funding - that way, humanitarian aid is meeting the target needs of innocent suffering Palestinians. How's that for meeting your references for context/complexity?

Quote
Independent Jewish Voices Canada promotes a solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict through respect for international law and human rights: "After numerous years of Canada withholding funding, we are delighted to see that the Liberal government is committed to the well-being of millions of vulnerable Palestinian refugees through the restoration of funding to UNRWA," said spokesperson Tyler Levitan.

Quote
In regards Trump's funding cuts to UNRWA, Karen Mock, chair of the progressive Jewish group JSpace Canada, acknowledged that there are issues with UNRWA that require monitoring, intervention and resolution, but said that cutting humanitarian aid to “the most vulnerable” is “mean-spirited and will only make the cause of peace that much more elusive.”

If the U.S. wanted to improve UNRWA’s operations, Mock added, it could have done what Canada did and monitor the agency’s operations more closely.

“Instead, cutting aid makes individual Palestinians suffer, leaves the current UNRWA management intact and brings the Middle East no closer to peace,” she said.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 06, 2019, 12:15:43 am
It has been a long time since I watched Question Period, but it appears to me that the Sheer Conservatives are a bunch of children. Whenever Sheer asked a question, there was respect from the entire house. When Trudeau attempted to respond, we had jeers and catcalls from the babies in blue. When Singh asked a question there was also childish banter, and my best guess as to the source is also the Sheer gang of toddlers. It is time the CPC grew up.

what the petty CPC ratphackers have stooped to in the House is purposely referring to PM Trudeau as, "the Liberal leader"... refusing to call him Prime Minister.  Should we expect anything less from a party surrounding itself with Rebel Media cast-offs and imported U.S. advisers tied to Breitbart/Trump/Koch Brothers!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on May 07, 2019, 02:57:04 pm
I watched about 15 minutes of Sheer's first "policy announcement" today on foreign affairs. He spent the entire time bashing Trudeau and offered zero policy. Will the rest of his "polices" be just as devoid of substance?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 07, 2019, 05:13:33 pm
I watched about 15 minutes of Sheer's first "policy announcement" today on foreign affairs. He spent the entire time bashing Trudeau and offered zero policy. Will the rest of his "polices" be just as devoid of substance?

wow! Scheer had 2 mega pronouncements... {1} a rather novel... uhhh... TrumpBlazing idea to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and move Canada's embassy to Jerusalem and, {2} re-establish the Harper designed/implemented 'Office of Religious Freedom', cause that went over so well the first try. /snarc 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on May 07, 2019, 06:45:15 pm
I find myself agreeing with the article linked below.  The flirting with racist elements by the CPC is a big turnoff to centrist voters.  Electing Chang, instead of Scheer would have helped this.  Scheer seems to be spineless.


(https://www.macleans.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/MACLEANS-JUNE-2019_Crop.jpg)
Quote
It’s not good enough for Scheer to get better at dealing with the occasional flare-ups that leave him looking like the hillbilly caricature Liberals like to make of him. He needs to openly admit that the Conservatives have a problem. He needs to clearly and emphatically demonstrate that he means what he says, that his party is not open to voters who scapegoat immigrants and hold fast to the view that there are too many non-white people coming to Canada. He needs to do something about it.

He needs to show them the door and invite them to leave. Whatever numbers he’ll lose to Mad Max Bernier, he’ll pick up from more centrist voters who’ve grown weary of Trudeau’s “woke” politics, with its wardrobe of groovy socks and a photo album filled with glamour magazine spreads where a portfolio of policy accomplishments should be.

But whatever the faults that can be laid at the feet of the Liberals, it’s Andrew Scheer’s Conservatives who have the racist jackass problem. And however much they genuinely don’t want it, they’re clearly not trying hard enough to shake it.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 07, 2019, 11:17:50 pm
you summarily wrap Israel/Palestine 'happenings' into a trite description you refer to as... "complexity and all sorts of context". And you won't even try to support your boy Scheer's call out of the Liberal government/PM Trudeau reinstating the funding Harper removed. Yeesh!

Well Scheer is not "my boy".  I barely know much about him or his policies yet.

Quote
those Hamas ties are allegations - one side denies some of the UNRWA funding gets siphoned off by Hamas; the other side states there is irrefutable evidence. What the Liberal government did is put in place conditional funding tied to strict oversight and spending accountability of Canadian funding - that way, humanitarian aid is meeting the target needs of innocent suffering Palestinians. How's that for meeting your references for context/complexity?

If that's what Trudeau is doing it seems like a decent plan to me.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 09, 2019, 12:05:09 pm
Can't say i was impressed with Scheer's foreign policy announcements.  Seems to be more on the Harper line, which was hit and miss, and more active militarily in the world, which we need to be careful about.

Scheer wants to move Canada's embassy to Jerusalem like Trump, which I don't agree with.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Sophia Helen Jones on May 10, 2019, 02:21:27 pm
andy wants us to get to know him, and from what I have seen, the Liberals may just have a chance. He wants to align himself with the most corrupt, criminal non-leader south of our border on missile defence?  And at the same time, point fingers at the Libs, yelling corruption charges.  Master hypocrites are Conservatives, so he is the perfect leader for this party of harper.  Not Progressive Cons but ReformCons. He has no plan, no policies, no leadership abilities or skills and not a shred of what I see as strength about him.     
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on May 10, 2019, 03:07:13 pm
Omar  Alghabra is Trudeau's principal advisor on Hamas and the Palestinian conflict. Alghabra is pro Hamas and pro terrorist. I was at a speech of his at a Mosque in Mississauga where he openly applauded terrorism by Hamas speaking in Arabic to his audience. He is a hate monger.

Trudeau is surrounded by advisors who do not acknowledge what Hamas is. He and his mp's want to pander  to both sides of the conflict.

https://canadafreepress.com/article/trudeaus-support-for-israel-undermined-by-liberal-nominee-kang-at-calgary-a


UNWRA has been infiltrated by and is controlled by Hamas.

https://www.cfnepr.com/205640/Terrorism-and-UNRWA-1

This is why the Tories stopped funding it and no there are no checks and balances as to how the $25 million Trudeau gave it  is being spent-there are NO conditions or controls. Absolutely none. Trudeau was asked to put safeguards in place but in fact none were put in place. None exists and if someone claims they do please provide the evidence because they do not and never have. UNWRA is not accountable for how it spends its money and never has been.

https://torontosun.com/2016/11/18/trudeau-gives-your-cash-to-hamas-influenced-group/wcm/3f1e0a80-8c5e-4dcb-9504-a776f282d534

https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Letters-to-the-Editor-Hamas-controls-UNRWA-584504

https://www.forbes.com/2009/01/07/gaza-hamas-unrwa-oped-cx_cr_0108rosett.html

https://www.memri.org/reports/kuwaiti-columnist%20-calls-to-stop-funding-unrwa

https://canadafreepress.com/article/unwra-is-a-racist-obscenity

https://www.jewishpolicycenter.org/2007/08/31/how-unrwa-supports-hamas/

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4928597,00.html

Trudeau did announce he condemned Hamas rocket attacks into Israel this last week and that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish nation. I think he himself personally is not an anti semite or anti Israel and is trying to support a two state solution and sees both sides as having equal rights.

I give him personally the benefit of the doubt. I do think though he has many anti Israelis in his Liberal Party that advise him-the same element that openly ridiculed Bob Rae for being married to a Jewish wife and again I was there on the floor listening to the do not vote for Rae he is a Jew lover comments.

I believe as do most Canadians in a two state solution but I do not think any support for Hamas or the PA at this point will achieve that. Both elements will not ever recognize a Jewish state of Israel as they are now constituted and both leaders have made openly anti semitic comments and comments calling for violence to overthrow Israel which has led to the current status quo and empowering of Netanyahu's refusal to negotiate on the grounds there is no one moderate to negotiate with.

Hamas shooting in 600 missiles to Israel again proves what their agenda truly is. The war to remove Israel never ended  and continues.

For Trudeau to think UNWRA is a peaceful agent in the process is absurd,

Then again Trudeau is not alone. 50-70 Democrats want support reinstated to UNWRA by the US.




Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on May 10, 2019, 03:26:39 pm
Omar  Alghabra is Trudeau's principal advisor on Hamas and the Palestinian conflict. Alghabra is pro Hamas and pro terrorist. I was at a speech of his at a Mosque in Mississauga where he openly applauded terrorism by Hamas speaking in Arabic to his audience. He is a hate monger.

Please provide more details, that is some allegation you are making.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 11, 2019, 12:59:11 am
Please provide more details, that is some allegation you are making.

is this just Rue being his blowhardy self... or can he back it up? Yes, quite the allegation being made by member Rue against a sitting MP... one appointed as the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs (Consular Affairs).
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 11, 2019, 01:07:00 am
This is why the Tories stopped funding it and no there are no checks and balances as to how the $25 million Trudeau gave it  is being spent-there are NO conditions or controls. Absolutely none. Trudeau was asked to put safeguards in place but in fact none were put in place. None exists and if someone claims they do please provide the evidence because they do not and never have. UNWRA is not accountable for how it spends its money and never has been.

if you'd like to attempt to counter this Government of Canada position statement with something other than your standard/typical unsubstantiated statements, please do... waiting, waiting, waiting (for RuePigsToFly)!

(https://i.imgur.com/zmpEu8s.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on May 11, 2019, 10:49:32 am
I have already submitted concerns and sources that indicate UNWRA is compromised by Hamas and stated there are no safeguards to prevent any money going to UNWRA from going to Hamas.

I note one reader now writes in claiming UNWRA polices itself so that means we can assume its not sending any funds to UNWRA.

A summary of the concerns with Trudeau’s funding by UNWRA can be found at:

“ Source: https://www.investigativeproject.org/7659/is-canada-knowingly-funding-extremism
The author, Tom Quiggin is a former military intelligence officer, a former intelligence contractor for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and a court appointed expert on jihadist terrorism in both the Federal and criminal courts of Canada.

Here are the major components of his opinion:

“Canadian taxpayer money may be finding its way to Hamas, a listed terrorist group…last Friday, Minister of International Development Marie-Claude Bibeau announced that Canada would send $50 million in the next two years to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). This is in addition to the $110 million that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has committed to UNRWA since 2016. UNRWA has been repeatedly accused of supporting extremism, promoting violence and not checking beneficiaries against a list of known terrorists provided by the police.

The announcement made no reference to UNRWA's alleged connections, and said the money is meant to help provide education and health services to Palestinians….
In addition to funding UNRWA, the Trudeau government gave millions of taxpayers' dollars to Islamic Relief Canada. Some of this money is forwarded to Islamic Relief Worldwide (UK), which has been repeatedly linked to Hamas.

Worldwide (UK), which has been repeatedly linked to Hamas.

That's why I joined with several concerned Muslim reformists in writing to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police last week requesting an investigation. You can read the letter here.
The Canadian aid is funneled through government programs, including International Humanitarian Aid Program (2017), M103 Islamophobia Funding (2018), Canada Summer Jobs Program (2017 and 2018), Myanmar Crisis Relief Fund/Islamic Relief (May 2018), Canadian Humanitarian Assistance Fund CHAF, Canada's Humanitarian and Development Assistance to Syria, Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon, and Prime Minister Trudeau's volunteer work and promotional video for Islamic Relief Canada.

In June, MP Iqra Khalid of Mississauga announced that $23 million Canadian dollars would help fund her M103 Parliamentary Motion on "Islamophobia." The money, she said, would go to Islamic Relief Canada and a local boys and girls club.

Other members of Parliament who appear to have played a role in directing money to Islamic Relief Canada include Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Immigration and Refugees Minister Ahmed Hussen, Global Affairs Minister

Chrystia Freeland, International Development Minister Bibeau and Parliamentary Secretary Omar Alghabra.

A variety of independent and credible sources have identified Islamic Relief Worldwide as funding extremist and terrorist activities. This includes American think tank studies and international actors. The following is a partial list of statements concerning the activities of Islamic Relief International.

1. In 2014 the United Arab Emirates produced a list of organizations they deemed to be terrorist entities. Among those was Islamic Relief Worldwide and Islamic Relief UK.

2. In 2017, Bangladesh banned three organizations, including Islamic Relief, from working with Rohingya refugees fleeing Myanmar out of concern about potential radicalization in refugee camps.

3. In 2014, Israel banned Islamic Relief from operating in the occupied West Bank, accusing Islamic Relief Worldwide of being a source of funding for the Palestinian Hamas Islamist movement. That led the UK Charities Aid Foundation (CAF) to remove Islamic Relief from its online donations page. The Financial Post of Canada similarly removed Islamic Relief from a charity page "since its international arm has been banned elsewhere (though not in Canada) for allegedly funneling funds to the terrorist organization Hamas."

4. In 2015, the HSBC Bank of the United Kingdom closed Islamic Relief accounts citing fears that money could wind up with terrorist groups.

5. In 2012, the UBS cut ties with Islamic Relief due to concerns about counter-terrorist regulations.
Canada revoked the International Relief Fund for the Afflicted and Needy (IRFAN)'s charitable status in 2014 for similar Hamas support. The Islamic Society of North America in Canada has suffered four different charity revocations – two of which were for funding the Jamaat e Islami terrorist group.

What is different in this case, however, is how the money is getting directed down the path to terrorism. In the recent past, it was private citizens exploiting weaknesses in government oversight of registered charities. Now, however, it appears that Canadian MPs are using their positions to direct millions of dollars to Islamic Relief Canada. Some of this money is passed to Islamic Relief Worldwide, which is in turn passing money to extremist and terrorist groups. Given that it is generally known about Islamic Relief Worldwide's terrorism financing connections, Canadian officials appear willfully blind.

Even if they don't know better, this practice violates Canadian law and Canadian values. An investigation could determine if the money could wind up in the hands of a terrorist organization.”

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 11, 2019, 11:05:59 am
 ;D surprise, surprise, surprise... the unsubstantiatingRue can't deliver the goods!

so..... you haven't countered the oversight/regulation reference concerning UNRWA funding and you haven't substantiated your allegation against Omar Alghabra - Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs (Consular Affairs)... your allegation that he, as you say, "is pro Hamas and pro terrorist"... that he, as you say, "openly applauded terrorism by Hamas speaking in Arabic to his audience at a Mosque in Mississauga . He is a hate monger."
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on May 11, 2019, 12:04:59 pm
In regards to Omar Alleghbra who is now Trudeau's advisor on the Middle East:

I and many others of many faiths including Islam are very well aware of his activities in the Palestinian community in Mississauga when he was head of the Canadian Arab Federation between 2004 and 2005 and long after he left this organization which is no longer funded by the Canadian government due to its hate rhetoric. where he and I live. We had been to his public speeches openly inciting young Muslims to hate.

He has since his past days  of making openly anti semiotic remarks and supporting Hamas and Hezbllah told the Jewish community he has changed:

https://www.cjnews.com/news/canada/mp-denies-allegations-he-supports-anti-israel-views

He currently says he is against terrorism and is pro a two state solution and states he does not support BDS.

Here is the point. People can go on to the internet to find out what Alleghbra supported in the past and  how he tries to distance himself from and decide whether he is born again.

Imagine if the Conservatives elected an past neo Nazi and appointed him Multicultural Minister.

What a double standard Liberals have. There is Waldo whining over Sheer being a bigot and claiming he does not know of Alleghbra's past. Such bullshit.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 11, 2019, 12:19:14 pm
is this you starting your walk-back?  ;D

hey now! Don't forget - you haven't countered the oversight/regulation reference concerning UNRWA funding
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 11, 2019, 12:30:55 pm
Scheer had been on a regular daily tweet-storm - now scheerily quiet. What could it be?

Quote
Canada added 106,500 net jobs in April, the bulk of which were full time, Statistics Canada said in its latest labour force survey... the biggest one-month employment gain since the government started collecting comparable data in 1976. The rush of new jobs far surpassed market forecasts and helped drop the unemployment rate to 5.7 per cent.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on May 11, 2019, 01:34:57 pm
He currently says he is against terrorism and is pro a two state solution and states he does not support BDS.
BDS should not be included in that list. It does not arise from anti-Semitism but from disgust with Israel's actions. As a matter of freedom of thought and expression, we are free to criticize and boycott Israel without being accused of anti-Semitism.

 is . Suppressing BDS is suppressing freedom of expression.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on May 12, 2019, 10:17:26 am
BDS should not be included in that list. It does not arise from anti-Semitism but from disgust with Israel's actions. As a matter of freedom of thought and expression, we are free to criticize and boycott Israel without being accused of anti-Semitism.

 is . Suppressing BDS is suppressing freedom of expression.

You need to find out who started BDS and why. Until you do you will make comments such as the above. The issue is not about suppressing freedom of speech. If you want to support boycotts go ahead. That is not the issue and never was.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on May 12, 2019, 10:38:32 am
The point I made about concerns for the UNWRA and Waldo's inability to respond to it  but instead try taunt me with personal remarks speaks for itself.

To call Sheer a racist for associating with certain people and then pretend not to know who Omar Alghabra is and what his views are and who he associates with is a classic example of the bullshit double standard certain Liberal partisans use on this board. They expect one standard for their own views but another for anyone else's views that don't suit their own subjective agenda.

Omar Alghabra advanced anti Jewish not just anti Israeli views for years in Mississauga and those of us living in the city from inner faith groups of Muslims-Jews-Christians were at his rallies and heard what he said and stood strongly against his hateful rhetoric and the young people he was trying to recruit through Mosques.

Today Alghabra backtracks and tries to distance himself from his past claiming he has changed.

I myself do not believe people suddenly become born again and renounce their former views. I unlike some Liberal Partisans am aware of what certain Liberal MP's continue to write in Farsi and Arabic which is far different then what they say or write to English speaking audiences.

This thread is not about me it is about the double standard the thread uses when discussing political party leaders.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 12, 2019, 10:42:02 am
BDS should not be included in that list. It does not arise from anti-Semitism but from disgust with Israel's actions. As a matter of freedom of thought and expression, we are free to criticize and boycott Israel without being accused of anti-Semitism.

awkward... for the diaspora, hey member Rue!

Quote
For many diaspora Jews, BDS has become a symbol of evil and repository of dread, a nefarious force transforming the Israel-Palestine debate from a negotiation over the end of the occupation and the division of territory into an argument about the conflict’s older and deeper roots: the original displacement of most of the Palestinians, and, on the ruins of their conquered villages, the establishment of a Jewish state. The emergence of the BDS movement has revived old questions about the legitimacy of Zionism, how to justify the privileging of Jewish over non-Jewish rights, and why refugees can return to their homes in other conflicts but not in this one. Above all, it has underscored an awkward issue that cannot be indefinitely neglected: whether Israel, even if it were to cease its occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, can be both a democracy and a Jewish state.

not to forget how this lil' diversion started:
recent weakSauce tweet complaining about the Liberal government {PM Trudeau... "He"} restoring funding to UNRWA (The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East)

(https://i.imgur.com/amDHYpT.png)

seems Scheer has ignored your stated, "complexity and all sorts of context" - yes?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 12, 2019, 10:50:34 am
I myself do not believe people suddenly become born again and renounce their former views. I unlike some Liberal Partisans am aware of what certain Liberal MP's continue to write in Farsi and Arabic which is far different then what they say or write to English speaking audiences.

This thread is not about me it is about the double standard the thread uses when discussing political party leaders.

says the guy, you, who makes threads about himself!

I feel a tinge of regret having ridiculed your inability to comprehend English... albeit I did fully acknowledge, several times, that English was not your first language. What I didn't appreciate was your fluency in Farsi/Arabic!  ;D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on May 12, 2019, 11:22:54 am
Again ignoring the juvenile taunts from Waldo as to both myself or Sheer or anyone else he disagrees with the issue as to concerns as to funding UNWRA because of its close ties to Hamas is there for all to consider and deals with a larger issue of concern.

In fact Prof. Lorenzo Vidino, an expert on Islamism in Europe and North America, at George Washington University testified to the Canadian Senate in May 2015 stated that the Muslim Brotherhood alone had some eight to ten major front groups in Canada including:

1-the National Council of Canadian Muslims NCCM (formerly CAIR CAN)
2-the Muslim Association of Canada
3-Islamic Relief Canada
4-the International Relief Fund for the Afflicted and Needy (IRFAN) (note: the Government of Canada has listed IRFAN as a terrorist entity as it did millions of dollars of fund raising for Hamas)

There are also Islamist front groups operating in Canada which have a partner organization in the U.S., for example, NCCM/CAIR CAN is the Canadian Chapter of CAIR USA.  Islamic Relief Canada and Islamic Relief USA are both part of Islamic Relief International.  ISNA Canada and ISNA USA are partner agencies.

CAIR USA has already been listed as a terrorist entity by the United Arab Emirates. 

Islamic Relief International is also listed while both Islamic Relief Canada and Islamic Relief USA have  been found to have ties to Hamas.

ISNA Canada operated with  three different charities that lost their status for terrorism funding. 

ISNA USA by the way  was found to be an unindicted co-conspirator in a major terrorism funding trial and has been connected to CAIR USA and Hamas.

Further details can be found at:

https://www.newdelhitimes.com/are-democratic-countries-like-canada-funding-terrorism/

Funding of extreme terrorists through fronts or organizations like UNWRA  are a real concern and should not be used for partisan exercises of name calling.

I have finished my clarification and will now stop as I see Waldo is using it now as an excuse not to discuss the actual issue but try engage me personally and I do not wish to dominate or respond to him just the issue.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 12, 2019, 05:19:01 pm
Again ignoring the juvenile taunts from Waldo as to both myself or Sheer or anyone else he disagrees with the issue as to concerns as to funding UNWRA because of its close ties to Hamas is there for all to consider and deals with a larger issue of concern.

Funding of extreme terrorists through fronts or organizations like UNWRA  are a real concern and should not be used for partisan exercises of name calling.

I have finished my clarification and will now stop as I see Waldo is using it now as an excuse not to discuss the actual issue but try engage me personally and I do not wish to dominate or respond to him just the issue.

nice deflection attempt, hey Rue! The, as you say, "actual issue" is that you're unable to counter the following references to regulation and oversight:

if you'd like to attempt to counter this Government of Canada position statement with something other than your standard/typical unsubstantiated statements, please do... waiting, waiting, waiting (for RuePigsToFly)!

(https://i.imgur.com/zmpEu8s.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on May 13, 2019, 03:23:03 pm

source:https://www.cjnews.com/news/canada/groups-concern-unrwa-boosts-funding-palestinians

"However, Hillel Neuer, executive-director of UN Watch, a Geneva-based watchdog group, said “UN Watch is gravely concerned that Canada is yet again handing UNRWA millions of taxpayer dollars to fund teachers who endorse Hitler and advocate the murder of Jews.
“Despite a detailed report that I presented at Parliament in April, identifying 60 more UNRWA employees who preach anti-Semitism and jihadi terrorism, neither the Trudeau government nor UNRWA has informed us of a single UNRWA teacher who has been fired as a result. This calls into question Canada’s claim, when it announced its original $25-million funding in November, that UNRWA has a policy of ‘zero tolerance.’
“The government’s new announcement that UNRWA will be hiring a ‘neutrality co-ordinator’ is of little use so long as UNRWA sends the message that preachers of anti-Semitic hate and terror are welcome to teach before classrooms of vulnerable children.”

also

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/11783/unrwa-creates-palestinian-refugees

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 13, 2019, 06:42:55 pm
 ;D notwithstanding the datedness of your sources, those are quite the neutral independent pro-Israeli references you have there, hey member Rue! Oh my - isn't UN Watch the organization that gave Jason Kenney a 'Moral Courage Award'... that intends to give it's 2019 Moral Courage Award to Stephen Harper? C'mon... still waiting for you to counter the regulation/oversight the current Canadian government has put in place in regards UNRWA funding - still waiting!

here's a lil' more detail for ya - you're welcome

(https://i.imgur.com/1NN0PST.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on May 14, 2019, 12:28:39 pm
You have provided repeat examples of how Canada expects UNWRA to do its own policing. Nothing in what you provided shows Canada or Canadians doing anything.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 14, 2019, 04:10:40 pm
You have provided repeat examples of how Canada expects UNWRA to do its own policing. Nothing in what you provided shows Canada or Canadians doing anything.

other than your dated pro-Israeli references... you have provided nothing. Try putting forward something timely, independent and unbiased to directly challenge/counter the regulations and oversight that exists. Here, have another helping - you're welcome!

(https://i.imgur.com/xQcYH2g.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on May 16, 2019, 07:04:50 am
In regards to the current  Liberal government’s funding of UNWRA I responded that UNWRA has proven itself to be an agent of and supporter of Hamas and other terror cells and therefore lost any credibility .

A well known Liberal partisan then produced government memos  in defence of Trudeau's position to fund UNWRA claiming Canada has placed safeguards on the donations it will now give UNWRA so they are not used for terrorist purposes.

The memo suggests UNWRA will police itself and it does  make references to twice a year reviews of UNWRA  by someone not specified, with no specifics as to how this would  or will be done or how that will be reported.

Imagine if I said the Canadian government will  give  drug addicts money to treat their heroin addiction and leave it to these drug addicts  how to decide what to do with that money and we will check in on them twice a year to see how they are doing but we are not sure who will be doing those twice a year reviews, how they will do them or if they will ever get done because there are no public procedures to guarantee these reviews.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 16, 2019, 09:32:40 am
A well known Liberal partisan then produced government memos  in defence of Trudeau's position to fund UNWRA claiming Canada has placed safeguards on the donations it will now give UNWRA so they are not used for terrorist purposes.

the board's well known PM Trudeau hater and anti-Liberal partisan produced nothing to counter the regulation/oversight put in place to monitor funding... nothing... other than dated highly partisan pro-Israeli references! Of course the stooge, weakSauce Andy, took up the same position as Harper - but also hasn't produced anything either
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on May 17, 2019, 04:25:35 pm
Apparently Scheer thinks he's going to resurrect a West-East "infrastructure corridor" ie, pipeline.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scheer-economic-address-energy-corridor-1.5138649
Scheer ... floated a new policy proposal — a dedicated, coast-to-coast right-of-way specifically set aside for energy infrastructure projects like pipelines and new hydroelectric projects.

Didn't anybody tell him that Energy East got a very fast thumbs down from hundreds of First Nations and other Canadian communities in its path?
And BC has certainly not agreed to any more oil pipelines to the coast.
Just plain silly.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on May 17, 2019, 04:39:09 pm
a dedicated, coast-to-coast right-of-way

Sounds easy, I will magic into being.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: poochy on May 18, 2019, 12:26:24 am
Apparently Scheer thinks he's going to resurrect a West-East "infrastructure corridor" ie, pipeline.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scheer-economic-address-energy-corridor-1.5138649
Scheer ... floated a new policy proposal — a dedicated, coast-to-coast right-of-way specifically set aside for energy infrastructure projects like pipelines and new hydroelectric projects.

Didn't anybody tell him that Energy East got a very fast thumbs down from hundreds of First Nations and other Canadian communities in its path?
And BC has certainly not agreed to any more oil pipelines to the coast.
Just plain silly.

fortunately those people only get to decide if we let them, luckily you're completely off of oil and other hydrocarbons and simply dont need it, right?  Or perhaps you're the sort of hypocrite who prefers to get their oil from countries with low human rights standards who also dont give a shit about the environment, but no, you wouldnt want to be that sort.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on May 18, 2019, 01:09:07 am
fortunately those people only get to decide if we let them,
Apparently oil companies do listen when people speak up.
“There were municipalities in my riding that had passed municipal resolutions in opposition to it, even before there was a process.
...
“First, it's quite difficult to go through that process without a real social acceptability,” he said in an interview. “If you have farmers, citizens, mayors against the project, it’s going to be tough.


Scheer knows his 'infrastructure corridor is a non-starter. Not a chance of approval from communities right across the country. It's just a really stupid idea.
Will his voters fall for it? 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on May 26, 2019, 12:48:26 am
Scheer's industry infrastructure corridor with "Pre-approved status"
[Pre-approved status
Without specifying geography, cost, or timeline, Scheer said he believes there's a will among different provinces to find a way to agree to create a route that will move Canada's natural resources across the country through an area where there will be a kind of pre-approved status that would provide the kind certainty that the private sector craves.

That included increasing refining capacity in New Brunswick, exporting hydroelectricity in Quebec and Manitoba, and shipping oil and gas to tidewater and to eastern Canada from Alberta.

"I'm optimistic. I believe there's a recognition of the need for it," Scheer said.

"Obviously it's going to take a lot of work to find the right balance between Indigenous concerns and environmental concerns and any provincial issues. There may be a lot of private property concerns for any individuals who may be living along the proposed route.[/i]

People who might just happen to be living along the proposed corridor. Lol

Can we take a vote?
Who wants the oil corridor through your county?

Ima NO on that. Lol

We already have a bad one - through the wetlands that clean the water, draining into Lake Ontario.

I think a pipeline runs near a subway in Trot.
I really don't like the one running through the Straits of Mackinac.

No I don't think Andrew Scheer understands his country if he thinks we're interested in that.
But that's ok.
He'll find out.
Maybe Ontario will go Green.
/notkidding
Lol


Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on May 26, 2019, 06:21:46 am

He'll find out.
 

He'll find out by over-promising, by ignoring the realities of politics and the justice system and by listening to lobbyists. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on May 26, 2019, 08:11:42 am
He'll find out by over-promising, by ignoring the realities of politics and the justice system and by listening to lobbyists.

I don't think Ontario is interested in Alberta's agenda anymore, certainly not in fast and deep budget cuts to balance the budget and I doubt many are interested in his "Preapproved pipeline corridor" either.

With Trudeau's popularity in the toilet, and Scheer's one-province (and screw the rest of you we're coming through!) agenda ... I think this will be a very interesting, possibly even exciting election.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on May 26, 2019, 09:24:21 am
He'll find out by over-promising, by ignoring the realities of politics and the justice system and by listening to lobbyists.
And that is different from Trudeau how exactly? A lobbiest is a lobbiest even if you happen to agree with some but not others.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on May 26, 2019, 09:27:23 am
With Trudeau's popularity in the toilet, and Scheer's one-province (and screw the rest of you we're coming through!) agenda ... I think this will be a very interesting, possibly even exciting election.
One province? You mean like the Liberal obsession with Quebec jobs? Or the Green plan to deliberately destroy the economy of 3 provinces in order to please wealthy urbanites?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on May 26, 2019, 10:05:14 am
And that is different from Trudeau how exactly? A lobbiest is a lobbiest even if you happen to agree with some but not others.

Well, I didn't say Trudeau was better but good point anyway. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 26, 2019, 10:14:08 am
I don't think Ontario is interested in Alberta's agenda anymore, certainly not in fast and deep budget cuts to balance the budget and I doubt many are interested in his "Preapproved pipeline corridor" either.

With Trudeau's popularity in the toilet, and Scheer's one-province (and screw the rest of you we're coming through!) agenda ... I think this will be a very interesting, possibly even exciting election.

Money Alberta makes via oil is good for the entire country. The TSX goes up, the dollar goes up, tax revenues go up.

But you're right, reality says a cross-Canada pipeline is an unrealistic dream right now if Alberta can't even get their pipeline to the BC coast.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on May 26, 2019, 06:58:33 pm
Well, I didn't say Trudeau was better but good point anyway.

No, and I didn't either. Lol

It's time to blow this two-horse race wide open.
Politics on steroids is not good governance.
IMO
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on May 30, 2019, 06:29:09 pm
oh my Andy! Quite telling hey!

in recent days within the HOC, Bloc Quebecois MP Monique Pauzé put forward a motion related to abortion; this motion:

Quote
That the House of Commons reiterate that a woman’s body belongs to her and her alone, and recognize her right to choose an abortion regardless of the reason

Liberal, NDP, Green Party, Bloc Quebecois and Independent members rose to applaud the motion... while Conservative members sat rigid in their seats! Oh my weakSauce Andy, ya think there will be an election ad that includes this reaction to the motion?
https://globalnewsdigitalvideo.corusdigitaldev.com/Shaw_-_News/459/850/WE_ABORTION%20STANDING%20O_MAY%2028.mp4
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on May 31, 2019, 11:49:02 am
oh my Andy! Quite telling hey!

in recent days within the HOC, Bloc Quebecois MP Monique Pauzé put forward a motion related to abortion; this motion:

Liberal, NDP, Green Party, Bloc Quebecois and Independent members rose to applaud the motion... while Conservative members sat rigid in their seats! Oh my weakSauce Andy, ya think there will be an election ad that includes this reaction to the motion?
https://globalnewsdigitalvideo.corusdigitaldev.com/Shaw_-_News/459/850/WE_ABORTION%20STANDING%20O_MAY%2028.mp4

Is that a bunch of Conservative men trying to shout down a woman for saying that women have a right to control their own bodies?
Did the Conservative women join in?


Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on May 31, 2019, 12:13:25 pm
Is that a bunch of Conservative men trying to shout down a woman for saying that women have a right to control their own bodies?
Did the Conservative women join in?


That's certainly what it looks/sounds like. Scheer has said publicly that HE won't open the issue for debate but one would have to be naive to not expect his MP's to do so if they should come to rule the roost.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on May 31, 2019, 12:56:43 pm
One province? You mean like the Liberal obsession with Quebec jobs?
I'm certainly not going to defend Trudeau's corruption via his corporate connections and dependencies.
Nor will I defend Scheer's single-minded focus on  promotion, connections and dependencies on the fossil fuel industry.
Quote
Or the Green plan to deliberately destroy the economy of 3 provinces in order to please wealthy urbanites?
The Greens plan to ...
create “millions” of jobs by retrofitting all buildings ["large facilities"] in Canada so that they’re carbon neutral over the next 11 years.
... applies equally to industry (including oilfields) commerce, public service, farm buildings and facilities, etc. etc. It's a very practical approach, very useful and very broad-based across all sectors.

Do Lib-Cons have  any useful, practical, mature, intelligent, thoughtful ideas?
Or just the same old mudslinging stupidity?

By "wealthy urbanites" ... do you mean Calgarians? The wealthy urbanites there are Greens? Lol 
I don't think trying to dismiss and disparage all "wealthy urbanites" is particularly accurate and it's certainly not helpful.

I once heard that the Green Party arose full blown with the initiative and funding of "rich Albertans with composters" ...?

Pitting provinces against each other is a fool's game, just more of the same old divisive and destructive Lib-Con ping-pong nonsense, like a continuing playground vendetta - steal the flag or something similar - maybe good boy-fun occasionally in its correct place, but it has no place in good governance: This isn't 'battle-of-the-boy-bands'.

Petty, divisive Lib-Con politics that insults Canadians' intelligence and decency, certainly never provides good governance.

Time to kick both of those boys to the curb.
Their behaviour on the job would not be acceptable in a classroom or on a playground.
Good governance should, at a bare minimum, consist of behaviour that sets a good example for children and youth. Enough trash politics.

Elizabeth May has always had class, always speaks respectfully and informatively, and the Greens do have practical economic plans that will be beneficial to all of us.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 31, 2019, 01:47:59 pm
The Greens plan to ...
create “millions” of jobs by retrofitting all buildings ["large facilities"] in Canada so that they’re carbon neutral over the next 11 years.
... applies equally to industry (including oilfields) commerce, public service, farm buildings and facilities, etc. etc. It's a very practical approach, very useful and very broad-based across all sectors.

Any government can create a ton of jobs by spending a whole bunch of other people's money (tax money and debt money) and forcing Canadians to spend money on some project or another.  That doesn't mean it's at all economically sound or a good way to spend said money. 

For instance, we did that in WWII and created a gazillion jobs and economic stimulus, but it was a massive waste of money and resources.  The Greens could promise to paint every building in Canada purple and that would also create a ton of jobs, that doesn't mean it's a sound idea.

If the Greens have a plan to fight climate change ok cool, but don't lie to voters and claim it's going to be good for our pocketbooks.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on May 31, 2019, 03:51:30 pm
Any government can create a ton of jobs by spending a whole bunch of other people's money (tax money and debt money) and forcing Canadians to spend money on some project or another.  That doesn't mean it's at all economically sound or a good way to spend said money. 

For instance, we did that in WWII and created a gazillion jobs and economic stimulus, but it was a massive waste of money and resources.
Link?

Quote
The Greens could promise to paint every building in Canada purple and that would also create a ton of jobs, that doesn't mean it's a sound idea.
If the Greens have a plan to fight climate change ok cool, but don't lie to voters and claim it's going to be good for our pocketbooks.
Where did the Greens "lie" about that?
Don't fling accusations without evidence.

Climate change will be very bad for our pocketbooks.
Pay now ... or pay more later.
That's just logic.
https://www.greenparty.ca/en/mission-possible
https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/05/16/green-party-unveils-20-point-climate-change-plan.html


Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 01, 2019, 12:22:22 am

Where did the Greens "lie" about that?
Don't fling accusations without evidence.

The Greens are saying their climate change plan will be good for our economy.  The burden is on them to provide the evidence.

Quote
Climate change will be very bad for our pocketbooks.
Pay now ... or pay more later.

But Canada doesn't have the power to stop or significantly slow down climate change. At best, with monumental and expensive efforts, we could slow it down a very, very small amount.  Retrofitting all of our buildings won't do much if the US is pumping out CO2 orders of magnitude more than us.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 01, 2019, 12:59:52 pm
The Greens are saying their climate change plan will be good for our economy.  The burden is on them to provide the evidence.

Agreed, but the same thing applies to the Conservatives and Liberals who make the same promises and never once provide proof and never once deliver.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on June 01, 2019, 04:03:05 pm
The Greens are saying their climate change plan will be good for our economy.  The burden is on them to provide the evidence.

But Canada doesn't have the power to stop or significantly slow down climate change. At best, with monumental and expensive efforts, we could slow it down a very, very small amount.  Retrofitting all of our buildings won't do much if the US is pumping out CO2 orders of magnitude more than us.

This is you ... and Liberals and Conservatives everywhere.
https://images.app.goo.gl/Jpn9q2taLyiidyzE6

Lol
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on June 02, 2019, 10:44:15 am
Andrew Scheer just removed MP Cooper (Edmonton) from a Justice Committee study group on online hate (e.g., referencing Andre Bisonnette's mass murder of 6 Muslims in a Quebec mosque).
Because ...
MP Cooper took great offence when a Muslim participant noted apparent Alt-right connections of racist mass shooters.
MP Cooper then read at length from Christchurch NZ shooter's manifesto, claiming he is 'a lefty' (Communist China sympathizer).

Seems MP Cooper has his own agenda and is not particularly focused on the inquiry purposes.

He's removed from that committee, but still an MP.
http://huffp.st/zrhEzwL
Alberta Muslim Public Affairs Council president Faisal Khan Suri told HuffPost Canada that while he hasn’t seen Cooper demonstrate any racism, he believes the way the St. Albert—Edmonton MP behaved “seemed that he had a very bigoted and extremist viewpoint.”
...
Suri noted that evidence from Bissonette’s computer “showed he repeatedly sought content about anti-immigrant, alt-right and conservative commentators, mass murderers, U.S. President Donald Trump, and about Muslims, immigrants living in Quebec.”
...
Cooper became infuriated .... Cooper took “great umbrage” with what he called Suri’s “defamatory comments.”

“To try to link, conservatism with violent and extremists attacks. They have no foundation, they are defamatory and they diminish your credibility as a witness.”


I think it's MP Cooper who has diminished his own credibility, and apparently Scheer agrees.

Note: The election of an MP is a  choice of the people in that riding. I don't personally believe that the national Party or Leader has a right to override the peoples' choice unilaterally, but perhaps via collaboration with the riding executive, etc. (Unlike Trudeau... )

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on June 02, 2019, 11:25:45 am
Scheer won't kick him out of caucus, of course.

And Cooper has basically said 'alt right' IS conservative.  Scheer doesn't need these crackpots.

Once again it comes down to people refusing to call out extremists in their midst.  Is there an equivalent on the left today ?  I feel there must be but I can't recall it.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 02, 2019, 11:29:33 am
I think it's MP Cooper who has diminished his own credibility, and apparently Scheer agrees.

it's a part of the attempt to rebrand Scheer before the election! To get an appreciation of how this symbolic action by Scheer is not going over well with "the base", peel on through the comments Scheer's tweet announcement of it received - wow, just wow! (https://twitter.com/AndrewScheer/status/1134980226604306432)

I say symbolic as there will be but a few short weeks left in the Parliamentary session before adjournment - the real testament of a rebrandedScheer would have been Cooper's removal from the CPC caucus. Of course most Canadians were first introduced to the weasel Cooper (aka 'crypt-keeper') during his many over-the-top actions during the Judicial Committee review of, les affaire SNC-Lavalin!
(https://i.imgur.com/KdRf9Ch.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on June 02, 2019, 11:53:22 am
it's a part of the attempt to rebrand Scheer before the election! To get an appreciation of how this symbolic action by Scheer is not going over well with "the base", peel on through the comments Scheer's tweet announcement of it received - wow, just wow! (https://twitter.com/AndrewScheer/status/1134980226604306432)

I say symbolic as there will be but a few short weeks left in the Parliamentary session before adjournment - the real testament of a rebrandedScheer would have been Cooper's removal from the CPC caucus. Of course most Canadians were first introduced to the weasel Cooper (aka 'crypt-keeper') during his many over-the-top actions during the Judicial Committee review of, les affaire SNC-Lavalin!
(https://i.imgur.com/KdRf9Ch.jpg)

Interesting Tweet response to Scheer from "Gina Ross":
The whole incident begs the question, why did Cooper have the Manifesto with him in the 1st place? And how is it he had the name of the mass murderer at the ready. Clearly went into the meeting with intent, before the Justice Committee witness opened his mouth.
Ie, MP  Cooper went into the meeting prepared to attack the Muslim speaker by quoting from a mass murderer of Muslims.
Disgusting.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 02, 2019, 12:21:42 pm
I suspect Scheer has attitudes similar to Coopers' on the issue  (after all we know of his allegiance with the likes of Faith Goldy) however Cooper stepped over the line to the point of potential PR damage so Scheer felt he needed to make a symbolic gesture of distancing himself, especially with an election looming.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on June 02, 2019, 02:18:41 pm
Scheer is such a loser. 

Rando Conservative Dude: "How DARE YOU MALIGN THE ALT-RIGHT ?!?  The SHOOTER was a NATIONALIST SOCIALIST.  HERE, LET ME READ FROM HIS MANIFESTO."

Scheer: "UNACCEPTABLE.  Um... off that committee but everything else is ok."

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on June 02, 2019, 02:19:28 pm
I suspect Scheer has attitudes similar to Coopers' on the issue  (after all we know of his allegiance with the likes of Faith Goldy) however Cooper stepped over the line to the point of potential PR damage so Scheer felt he needed to make a symbolic gesture of distancing himself, especially with an election looming.

However he may feel himself, Scheer is certainly not taking an anti-immigration stance for election campaigning:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-andrew-scheer-justin-trudeau-and-the-immigration-consensus-nobody/

But at a time when conservative parties across the world are increasingly pandering to nativist impulses, it was positive and necessary and a little bit wonderful to hear the leader of Canada’s Conservative Party embrace Canada’s fact as a nation of immigrants.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 02, 2019, 02:44:20 pm
However he may feel himself, Scheer is certainly not taking an anti-immigration stance for election campaigning:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-andrew-scheer-justin-trudeau-and-the-immigration-consensus-nobody/

But at a time when conservative parties across the world are increasingly pandering to nativist impulses, it was positive and necessary and a little bit wonderful to hear the leader of Canada’s Conservative Party embrace Canada’s fact as a nation of immigrants.

I somehow worry that, if elected, the REAL Scheer would emerge. Not only on immigration but abortion as well.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on June 02, 2019, 02:53:49 pm
I somehow worry that, if elected, the REAL Scheer would emerge. Not only on immigration but abortion as well.
If Scheer was elected PM, I expect he'd try to stay PM. He's been bitten by both of those issues already, so I don't have too much concern that he'll wade into them again.

My concern about Scheer is his support for fossil fuels, climate change denial, and thus failing to make any of the changes necessary to mitigate and adapt to climate change.

His "infrastructure corridor" idea can never be implemented, but it'll sell well to Alberta oil workers, bosses and owners.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: kimmy on June 03, 2019, 09:31:47 am
Once again it comes down to people refusing to call out extremists in their midst.  Is there an equivalent on the left today ?  I feel there must be but I can't recall it.

Gender Culture thread calling.  The current "genocide" rhetoric regarding indigenous people might be another example.

 -k
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on June 07, 2019, 07:40:11 pm
Gender Culture thread calling.  The current "genocide" rhetoric regarding indigenous people might be another example.

 -k

I don't know - I feel like the gender stuff is called out..  Isn't it *easier* to call out someone for using the '14 words' ?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on June 08, 2019, 09:28:34 am
Not too long ago  Jason Kenney’s United Conservative Party  as you know  won a majority government in Alberta.  The campaign strategy the NDP used is the same one Trudeau is now using and that is  trying to accuse Scheer of being a white supremacist  like the NDP and Notley tried to do with Kenney. I would also remind you that the late (as in politician) Kathleen Wynne beloved Liberal and soul mate of Justin  tried the exact same tactic with Doug (Chubby)Ford, accusing him of being a radical right-winger. How'd they d o?

The point is, trying to go after Scheer and call him a racist or a white supremacist or any other such personal attack probably isn't going to detract from the current Liberal's  failures, i.e., huge deficits, oil pipeline fiasco,  SNC-Lavalin scandal, etc.

Can we get serious? Scheer is a white supremacist because he gave an interview to Faith Goldy? Scheer is a racist because he  spoke to the yellow vest convoy that drove across the country in support of Alberta’s oil and gas industry? Scheer is a racist because he questions the current Immigration policies?

Calling him  a racist or white supremacist is a tactic designed to stop debate cold. Its designed to avoid debate  of the current failed Liberal policies. Might work here where most of you on this thread agree with one another but in the real world its probably not going to fly.

Interesting the Liberals and many of you on this thread call yourself progressive and engage in the same tactics as Donald Trump.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on June 08, 2019, 10:27:44 am
Don't ever compare the tactics of a politician to anyone on here.  Except Waldo, sorry.  But most of us no.

I don't think Scheer is a racist but I don't know either.  He does need the racist vote in order to win.  Trudeau may be a failure, but like Trump, he's part of a booming economy so the impact of his 'errors' may not be that great.

Also, is Scheer really going to do anything different ?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 08, 2019, 11:10:47 am
Don't ever compare the tactics of a politician to anyone on here.  Except Waldo, sorry.

why the drive-by? If you have something to say, step-up... and say it... or piss-off!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 08, 2019, 11:20:23 am
The point is, trying to go after Scheer and call him a racist or a white supremacist or any other such personal attack probably isn't going to detract from the current Liberal's  failures, i.e., huge deficits, oil pipeline fiasco,  SNC-Lavalin scandal, etc.

(https://i.imgur.com/IMi5YBN.jpg)

the "oil pipeline fiasco"... you mean the NO Harper oil pipeline, or the NEB regulation framework Harper left? Surely not the Liberals in favour of KXL, surely not the Liberals who purchased TMX to 'save it', surely not

the "SNC-Lavalin scandal" is your perpetual wet-dream... a nothingBurger fueled by a compliant ConMedia!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 08, 2019, 11:31:51 am
Can we get serious? Scheer is a white supremacist because he gave an interview to Faith Goldy? Scheer is a racist because he  spoke to the yellow vest convoy that drove across the country in support of Alberta’s oil and gas industry? Scheer is a racist because he questions the current Immigration policies?

from an assortment of examples: why did your boy, weakSauce, need to be prodded into finally saying the word Muslim? Why did your boy so stupidly claim not to have heard the town-hall questioner's reference to the alt-right fueled "Pizzagate" conspiracy theory? And most recently why did weakAndy so profusely proclaim bigots were not welcome in the CPC... only to subsequently give Cooper a pass... to allow him to stay within the CPC caucus - Cooper, the guy who came to the Justice Committee with the infamous manifesto at-the-ready, and actually read portions of it into the record?

nice try with the strawman "Scheer is a white supremacist"!  ;D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on June 08, 2019, 12:28:54 pm
Scheer may not be a racist...   there’s no evidence that he is... but he and his party absolutely pander to racists. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on June 09, 2019, 08:44:34 am
Scheer may not be a racist...   there’s no evidence that he is... but he and his party absolutely pander to racists.

Yah some of them as individuals pander to or sympathize with racist ideology of certain individuals in their ridings  but the  Liberals are no different. It wasn't too long ago the Liberals were calling out Bob Rae for being married to a Jewish women loudly on the floor accusing him of all kinds of shit when he ran for the leadership and just how long ago was it Trudeau was visiting Mosques with extremist leaders who belief in a brand of Islamism which is just as racist  as anything Scheer followers are accused of?

Specifically,  Liberal MP's Omar Alghabra, Iqra Khalid and Kalil Ramal are supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood and a kind if Islamism which is  as racist as any white supremacist ideology and they use the exact same words as white supremacists to justify its exclusivity.  It was also only a only  few short weeks ago Trudeau removed a reference to Siekh extremism to pander to an audience during a speech. Both Punjab Chief Minister Amarinder Singh and Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India have told Trudeau to cool it pandering to pro Khalistani extremist separatists in Canada.

The Liberal re-election strategy I respectfully argue is to try detract from all the Liberal failures by engaging in divisive and polarizing language to divide the country. The code term Trudeau is now reciting is: "its about what kind of country we want to live in, and who we want to be." That then leads to accusing Scheer and anyone who disagrees with Liberal policies for that matter as wanting a racist Canada.

That said politicians need to  be called out and held accountable for intolerant views not with name calling but by specific reference as to their supposed views. Smeer by inneuendo is cowardly.


Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on June 09, 2019, 10:41:46 am
Yah some of them as individuals pander to or sympathize with racist ideology of certain individuals in their ridings  but the  Liberals are no different. It wasn't too long ago the Liberals were calling out Bob Rae for being married to a Jewish women loudly on the floor accusing him of all kinds of shit when he ran for the leadership and just how long ago was it Trudeau was visiting Mosques with extremist leaders who belief in a brand of Islamism which is just as racist  as anything Scheer followers are accused of?

Wow really ?  Site on the Bob Rae thing please ?

Quote
The Liberal re-election strategy I respectfully argue is to try detract from all the Liberal failures by engaging in divisive and polarizing language to divide the country. The code term Trudeau is now reciting is: "its about what kind of country we want to live in, and who we want to be." That then leads to accusing Scheer and anyone who disagrees with Liberal policies for that matter as wanting a racist Canada.

Well, why not ?  Is your issue that it's immoral or that it doesn't work ?

Scheer could end this pretty quickly by kicking out the assholes and firing his staff from The Rebel.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 09, 2019, 11:33:45 am
weakSauce & lil' Hamish are reeeeally concerned about negativeDougie's 66% disapproval rating - so... lets have Ford take a break and start up again 1 week after the federal election! --- TorStar/Corbett Communications survey/poll:

(https://i.imgur.com/dRP39rL.png)  (https://images.thestar.com/2gMUjF3d2CvP7Jr_Kv3TTvQWh2w=/650x672/smart/filters:cb(1559929371785)/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/opinion/editorial_cartoon/2019/06/09/michael-de-adder-scheer-and-ford/michael_de_adder_scheer_and_ford.jpg)


Ontario PCs Deny 5-Month Summer Break Is About Helping Andrew Scheer (https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/ontario-tories-deny-summer-break-election_ca_5cf9655ce4b06af8b5057231)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on June 09, 2019, 11:52:12 am

I just don't think Doug Ford will be a helpful or welcome presence in Andrew Scheer's campaign.

So WTF is Doug Ford doing on his PAID 5 MONTH VACATION???!!!
I'll bet he's not catching up on his reading.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on June 09, 2019, 02:16:00 pm
Wait - what ?  Five months ?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: chilipeppers on June 09, 2019, 03:26:13 pm
This is not a vacation for any of them, the period was extended, but this is time when they do their constituency work, some I've known work 12 hour days. This nonsense about a paid vacation is just liberal propaganda. 

Knowing how this would be portrayed he shouldn't have done it

https://globalnews.ca/news/5359645/ontario-government-summer-break
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: chilipeppers on June 09, 2019, 03:30:53 pm
Wow really ?  Site on the Bob Rae thing please ?

Well, why not ?  Is your issue that it's immoral or that it doesn't work ?

Scheer could end this pretty quickly by kicking out the assholes and firing his staff from The Rebel.
Which assholes...  r
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2006/12/08/accusations-of-anti-semitism-at-the-liberal-leadership-convention-shock-bob-rae/It was in 2006 at the Liberal convention. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 09, 2019, 03:51:26 pm
This is not a vacation for any of them, the period was extended  by around 4 weeks is all.  This is time when they do their constituency work, some I've known work 12 hour days. This nonsense about a paid vacation is just liberal propaganda. 

Knowing how this would be portrayed he shouldn't have done it

https://globalnews.ca/news/5359645/ontario-government-summer-break

It is actually 2 months and I'm sure dofo will be working 12 hours everyday. Ho, ho , ho.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on June 09, 2019, 03:58:17 pm
http://
This is not a vacation for any of them, the period was extended, but this is time when they do their constituency work, some I've known work 12 hour days. This nonsense about a paid vacation is just liberal propaganda. 

Knowing how this would be portrayed he shouldn't have done it

https://globalnews.ca/news/5359645/ontario-government-summer-break

Ontario PC MPP's will all be campaigning for federal candidates.
And being slammed everywhere about Ontario service cuts! (I don't think that will help Scheer.)
But why are we paying them to do Party work?
They should be paid by the CPC !


Except Doug Ford. CPC likely doesn't want his help. He's a detriment to them right now:

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2019/06/07/news/heres-everything-doug-ford-government-cut-its-first-year-office

In commenting on the government's decision to adjourn till Oct. 28, one week after the federal election, Conservative house leader Todd Smith said the PC government has "achieved so much."

The Ontario premier agreed, adding recently that his government was "moving at lightning speed."

Here's a list of everything the Ford government has cut in its first year in office:

Environment
Cancelled Cap and Trade
Ended electric and hydrogen vehicle incentive program
Cut 700+ green energy projects
Shut down White Pines Wind Project
Proposed cuts to protections of species at-risk
Removed electric vehicle chargers from GO station parking lots
Slashed 50 per cent of flood management funds given to conservation authorities
Eliminated funding for 50 Million Tree Program
Ended Drive Clean, a mandatory biannual emissions test program for vehicles and light-duty trucks more than seven years old
Axed the Green Ontario Fund, which provided funds through cap and trade to help make properties more energy-efficient

Health
Cancelled free prescription medication given to those under 25 through the Pharmacare program
Cancelled the opening of new overdose prevention sites
Cut the Liberals’ promised $2.1 billion over four years for new mental health funding to $1.9 billion over 10 years
Revoked current and future funding for the College of Midwives of Ontario
Dissolved Local Health Integration Networks and merged them under one new umbrella body called Ontario Health
Slashed the number of paramedic service providers from 59 to 10
Proposed ending OHIP’s medical emergency coverage for Ontarians travelling outside the country
Planned to cut Toronto Public Health by $1 billion over the next 10 years. That translates into cuts in school breakfast programs, daycare and restaurant inspections, water-quality testing, pre- and postnatal care for single mothers, and detection of emerging threats to public health. (Reversed retroactive acts; future cuts remain)
Scrapped funding for three supervised drug-use sites (two in Toronto, one in Ottawa)
Trimmed $1 million in funding from Leave the Pack Behind, an agency that helps young people quit smoking

Education
Rolled back sex-ed curriculum
Removed $100-million budget for school repairs (due to cancellation of cap and trade)
Cancelled Ontario's first planned French-language university
Removed $25 million from the Education Programs-Other (EPO) Fund, which will limit grants available for school programs like after-school jobs for youth in low-income neighbourhoods; tutors in classrooms; leadership programs for racialized students; daily physical activity for elementary students and more
Dropped financial assistance for college and university students by more than $300 million
Removed free tuition for low-income students
Cut tuition fees by 10 per cent
Scrapped over $300 million in funding for three satellite university campuses
Increased class sizes, potentially resulting in over 3,400 lost teaching jobs over next four years
Cancelled three summer curriculum-writing sessions, including one that was mandated by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and two others relating to American Sign Language and Indigenous languages for kindergarten students
Shutdown the Harmony Movement, which provides diversity, equity, and inclusion education
Scrapped the Ontario College of Trades

Legislative positions
Privatization Officer
Chief Scientist
Investment Officer
Environmental Commissioner’s Office
Ontario Child Advocate
French Language Commissioner
Voluntary buyouts offered to thousands of Ontario public service workers

Justice
Reduced legal aid by 30 per cent
Disbanded Anti-Racism Directorate
Withheld $14.8 million in promised funding from existing and new sexual assault centres
Dissolved Ontario's Criminal Injuries Compensation Board, the tribunal that has awarded financial assistance to crime victims since 1971, as well as the law that provides financial aid to the victims of violent crime

Municipal affairs
Cut Toronto City Council in half
Planned to cut funds to repair social housing
Asked municipalities and school boards to find 4 per cent in “efficiencies” (i.e., cuts) to services

Arts, culture and tourism
Retroactively slashed $5 million from the Ontario Arts Council
Cancelled the Indigenous Culture Fund
Dropped grants for the Ontario Music Fund by more than 50 per cent
Reduced funding to regional tourism organizations by $17.5 million
Announced the termination of the Beer Store contract, jeopardizing 7,000 jobs
Cut $9.5 million from Tourism Toronto (25 per cent of funding) and $3.4 million from Ottawa Tourism

Social services
Cut $1 billion from social services across the board
Scrapped Basic Income Pilot Project
Cancelled $1 increase minimum wage
Cut Workplace Safety Insurance Board payments to injured workers by 30 per cent
Killed Bill C-148, which provided part-time workers the same pay as full-time workers, guaranteed 10 days off (2 days paid) and more
Removed rent control for new units
Severed library services funding in half
Ended the Roundtable on Violence Against Women
Slashed $84.5 million funding for children and at-risk youth, including children’s aid societies
Cut $15 million from the Ontario Trillium Foundation

Research
Cut funding to MaRS Discovery District
Eliminated funding for public policy think tanks such as the University of Toronto’s Mowat Centre, which conducted research on Ontario’s role in Canada and the world, as well as the Institute for Competitiveness & Prosperity, launched under former PC premier Mike Harris
Cut funding to two artificial intelligence institutes by $24 million
Cancelled a technology accelerators program of $9.5 million, a college-based applied research projects worth $6.7 million; $5 million in funding to the Institute for Quantum Computing; $1.5 million in funding to the Lazaridis Institute, and $750,000 for bioindustrial innovation.
Pared $5 million in funding for stem cell research
Eliminated funding for Gambling Research Exchange Ontario
Cut all funding for Ontario Centre for Workforce Innovation, a pilot program led by Toronto's Ryerson University to collate research on employment and training

Editor's Note: This article was updated on June 7, 2019 at 5:17 p.m. EST to include additional cuts.



Scheer initially proposed deficit cutting in two years, which would mean making very deep cuts like Ford.
Scheer got quick and loud feedback from his own Party, and quickly did an about face, saying 5 years instead ... which is saying nothing at all because it would be beyond a term of office.

Scheer has already been burnt by the backlash against Ford's cuts.
Having Ford on the campaign trail for Scheer would be a disaster for Scheer.
Ford can't appear in public in Ontario now, even in ridings they won, without being booed off stage.


So wtf is Ford doing on his 5mo taxpayer funded vacation?

https://images.app.goo.gl/bgQKmuaaLoMezjPX6

https://images.app.goo.gl/jB6v1Q7L1KSHmn1u5

.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 09, 2019, 05:27:58 pm
Here's a list of everything the Ford government has cut in its first year in office:

He was elected to cut the budget, now people are really upset about his cuts.  He cut into a few things he shouldn't have touched, like class-sizes.  Most of his cuts I haven't much a problem with given Ontario is in a crappy debt/budget situation. 

Cuts I have problems with:

-Proposed cuts to protections of species at-risk
-Slashed 50 per cent of flood management funds given to conservation authorities
-Cut the Liberals’ promised $2.1 billion over four years for new mental health funding to $1.9 billion over 10 years
-Proposed ending OHIP’s medical emergency coverage for Ontarians travelling outside the country
-Increased class sizes, potentially resulting in over 3,400 lost teaching jobs over next four years
-Reduced legal aid by 30 per cent
-Dissolved Ontario's Criminal Injuries Compensation Board, the tribunal that has awarded financial assistance to crime victims since 1971, as well as the law that provides financial aid to the victims of violent crime
-Scrapped Basic Income Pilot Project
-Cut Workplace Safety Insurance Board payments to injured workers by 30 per cent
-Removed rent control for new units
-Severed library services funding in half
-Slashed $84.5 million funding for children and at-risk youth, including children’s aid societies
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on June 09, 2019, 07:48:28 pm
It is actually 2 months and I'm sure dofo will be working 12 hours everyday. Ho, ho , ho.

My buddy called him and left a message and Dougie called him back... he just calls citizens.  He talked for like 1/2 an hour.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 09, 2019, 08:17:00 pm
My buddy called him and left a message and Dougie called him back... he just calls citizens.  He talked for like 1/2 an hour.

I wonder, is he as fixated on filling potholes as his brother was?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 10, 2019, 10:34:08 am
Cuts I have problems with:

I am sure others have problems with other cuts he has made.

The other problem are many of his "cuts" will not reduce spending, but actually increase it (ex. sex ed curriculum changes to reflect outdated social polices of the religious nutcases)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 11, 2019, 12:30:16 am
ads showed up during the televised Raptors game tonight - from some group named "Engage Canada"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTxyWiWrIps --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM7JrFhd2Kw --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw6ESX8TkCk
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 11, 2019, 12:46:22 pm
ads showed up during the televised Raptors game tonight - from some group named "Engage Canada"

Yes, the CPC have been whining about Engage Canada for some time. They claim that it is led by some former federal NDP aligned people and some McGuinty aligned people. I really don't care, the Conservative have been at the forefront of dirty politics for more than a decade (Ignatieff "Just Visiting", Trudeau "Hair", Trudeau escalator, etc.). Now they cry like little babies that Sheer is on the receiving end. The Conservatives owe Canada 36 million apologies for their dirty tactics before I give a shyte about them.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 12, 2019, 07:06:43 am
Yes, the CPC have been whining about Engage Canada for some time. They claim that it is led by some former federal NDP aligned people and some McGuinty aligned people. I really don't care, the Conservative have been at the forefront of dirty politics for more than a decade (Ignatieff "Just Visiting", Trudeau "Hair", Trudeau escalator, etc.). Now they cry like little babies that Sheer is on the receiving end. The Conservatives owe Canada 36 million apologies for their dirty tactics before I give a shyte about them.

the CPC & support groups had the better part of a 2 month free-reign in running those SNC-Lavalin themed attack ads... now they're quite miffed about these latest ads from 'Engage Canada' - hypocrites! Notwithstanding their own like supporters efforts from Scheer's lil' Rebel Hamish's own One Persuades group, the Ontario/Canada Proud groups, etc.. Absolutely, your 'cry like little babies' is spot on!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 17, 2019, 12:29:36 am
good on ya DOFO!
https://globalnewsdigitalvideo.corusdigitaldev.com/Shaw_-_News/900/1007/SAT_GTOR_DOUG_FORD_PRIDE_150619_1.mp4

and why not you Andy? After weakSauce formally announced he would not be attending any Pride Parades, the party-line came forward:
Quote
Canada’s Conservatives have a proud history of fighting for the rights and protection of all Canadians, including those in the LGBTQ community, at home and abroad. There are many ways to support these communities, and it is vital that the rights all Canadians are protected regardless of race, gender or sexual preference

"many ways"... that don't include a symbolic presence in a community pride event/parade. "Sunny Many Ways"!  ;D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on June 17, 2019, 08:51:04 am
Yes, the CPC have been whining about Engage Canada for some time. They claim that it is led by some former federal NDP aligned people and some McGuinty aligned people. I really don't care, the Conservative have been at the forefront of dirty politics for more than a decade (Ignatieff "Just Visiting", Trudeau "Hair", Trudeau escalator, etc.). Now they cry like little babies that Sheer is on the receiving end. The Conservatives owe Canada 36 million apologies for their dirty tactics before I give a shyte about them.

Yeah, Liberals are way above those tactics.  ::)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on June 17, 2019, 09:44:47 am
Libs & Cons both play dirty politics.
Perhaps because they both govern the same on behalf of the same corporate powers, so there isn't any real difference in policies or outcomes between them ... it's  just about the mudslinging contest.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on June 17, 2019, 10:32:45 am
Watch JT use Abortion rights as a wedge issue, this coming election, even when Sheer has never even proposed re-addressing the issue.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 17, 2019, 11:07:22 am
Watch JT use Abortion rights as a wedge issue, this coming election, even when Sheer has never even proposed re-addressing the issue.

how 'wedgie' is Scheer framing anti-abortion messaging as free-speech? ... cause why would that kind of anti-abortion messaging from anti-abortion groups present any kind of threat to a woman's reproductive rights in Canada, hey!

on edit: please refrain from diddling with my choice of the word, "rights"
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on June 17, 2019, 11:16:01 am
Watch JT use Abortion rights as a wedge issue, this coming election, even when Sheer has never even proposed re-addressing the issue.

Goose and Gander both proper gander.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on June 17, 2019, 12:42:58 pm
how 'wedgie' is Scheer framing anti-abortion messaging as free-speech? ... cause why would that kind of anti-abortion messaging from anti-abortion groups present any kind of threat to a woman's reproductive rights in Canada, hey!

on edit: please refrain from diddling with my choice of the word, "rights"

There's a difference between playing from the JT playbook that all people in his government must agree with him and allowing members have their own view but recognizing that there's no shot at the issue being re-opened.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 17, 2019, 12:44:51 pm
There's a difference between playing from the JT playbook that all people in his government must agree with him

You mean agreeing with the stated policy defined at an open convention that defines the party you claim to represent?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on June 17, 2019, 12:54:10 pm
You mean agreeing with the stated policy defined at an open convention that defines the party you claim to represent?

Sure. You can be a member a party and not agree with parts of their platform.

Just know that the policy won't change.

Too be clear, JT using the abortion issue as a wedge is fear-mongering.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 17, 2019, 01:02:22 pm
JT using the abortion issue as a wedge is fear-mongering.

No, JT is not using the abortion issue at all. The Liberal party policy is a woman has the right to choose which is in accordance with Section 7 of the Charter that has long been upheld.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2019, 01:03:49 pm
Perhaps they should reopen the debate and then pass a law which supports the current policy equally across the country.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 01:35:04 pm
how 'wedgie' is Scheer framing anti-abortion messaging as free-speech? ... cause why would that kind of anti-abortion messaging from anti-abortion groups present any kind of threat to a woman's reproductive rights in Canada, hey!

on edit: please refrain from diddling with my choice of the word, "rights"

Trudeau is an authoritarian jerk on the issue, sorry.  He believes his virtue is more important than the Charter.  A woman's ability to have an abortion does not negate any Canadian's rights, as explicitly laid out in the Charter, to: freedom of conscience and religion, freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression.

Abortion is not mentioned in the Charter, there is no "right to abortion" in Canada.  There are simply no laws at all either way on abortion:

Quote
There is nothing in the wording of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to indicate a constitutional right to abortion. And although claims are often made that the Supreme Court of Canada recognized a constitutional right to abortion in its 1988 Morgentaler decision,1 that is an incorrect understanding of what the Court decided.

As Osgoode Hall Law Professor Shelley A.M. Gavigan wrote in an essay published shortly after the 1988 decision, “The Supreme Court’s decision, profound as it was, did not create a right to abortion for Canadian women, nor did it offer any resolution of the abortion issue.”

None of the seven judges held that there was a constitutional right to abortion on demand. All of the judges acknowledged the state has a legitimate interest in protecting the unborn. Even Madam Justice Wilson, who rendered the most liberal opinion in favour of a woman’s rights, advocated an approach to abortion that would balance those rights with the state’s interest in protecting the unborn.

http://www.morgentalerdecision.ca/charter-right-to-abortion/
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 17, 2019, 01:40:50 pm
Trudeau is an authoritarian jerk on the issue, sorry.  He believes his virtue is more important than the Charter.  A woman's ability to have an abortion does not negate any Canadian's rights, as explicitly laid out in the Charter, to: freedom of conscience and religion, freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression.

How does a woman's right to choose affect your charter freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief, opinion, or expression. You are free to do as you want, nobody is stopping you. Stop trampling on women's rights.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 01:43:57 pm
No, JT is not using the abortion issue at all. The Liberal party policy is a woman has the right to choose which is in accordance with Section 7 of the Charter that has long been upheld.

In 1988, the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Morgentaler et. al. v. Her Majesty the Queen and the Attorney General of Canada, indexed by the court as R. v. Morgentaler, declared the entirety of Section 251 of the Criminal Code to be of no force or effect because it was held to violate section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Section 7 states that: "Everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the security of the person, and the right not to be deprived thereof, except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."

The majority of the court in Morgentaler did not find that there was a substantive right to abortion under Section 7, as this was only explicitly argued by Wilson. The court found it unnecessary to consider whether the substance of section 7 implies a right to abortion, but instead made its decision on procedural grounds.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Canada#Supreme_Court_decision
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 01:53:13 pm
How does a woman's right to choose affect your charter freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief, opinion, or expression. You are free to do as you want, nobody is stopping you.

JT tried to deny federal funding for the Canada Summer Jobs progrhttps://cdn.smfboards.com/caf/images/bbc/quote.gifam to any organization that dared express any opposition to abortion.

Also:

Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau says anti-abortion MPs already sitting in his caucus can run as candidates, but will still be expected to vote along pro-choice lines on any legislation regarding abortion.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-clarifies-abortion-stance-for-liberal-mps-1.2679783

Ok so Liberal MP's, and especially any new candidates, don't have Charter rights either of conscience, religion, thought, belief, opinion, or expression.  MP's don't represent their constituents, only Trudeau's opinions.  Trudeau is not the Liberal Party of Canada.  If MP's wanted to a make a law banning abortions at 8 or 9 months, Trudeau says they can't, even though there's absolutely no Charter SCC decisions protecting as such, in fact seems to be the opposite.

Quote
Stop trampling on women's rights.

 ::) That's like me saying stop trampling on Canadian's explicit Charter rights, and the rights of unborn babies.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2019, 01:57:02 pm
In 1988, the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Morgentaler et. al. v. Her Majesty the Queen and the Attorney General of Canada, indexed by the court as R. v. Morgentaler, declared the entirety of Section 251 of the Criminal Code to be of no force or effect because it was held to violate section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Section 7 states that: "Everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the security of the person, and the right not to be deprived thereof, except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."

The majority of the court in Morgentaler did not find that there was a substantive right to abortion under Section 7, as this was only explicitly argued by Wilson. The court found it unnecessary to consider whether the substance of section 7 implies a right to abortion, but instead made its decision on procedural grounds.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Canada#Supreme_Court_decision

Put simply for you, the SCOC simply took the page from the criminal code that laid out the grounds for a legal abortion and threw it in the garbage as it was deemed to go against Section 7. Section 7 doesn't, and didn't need to mention abortion.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 17, 2019, 02:06:23 pm
JT tried to deny federal funding for the Canada Summer Jobs program to any organization that dared express any opposition to abortion.
...
Trudeau is not the Liberal Party of Canada.

I believe that is jobs tied to anti-abortion activities. Nobody is having their rights trampled on, they just can't use government funds to trample on other peoples rights.

No, Trudeau is not the Liberal Party of Canada. The membership is, and it is the membership that voted for the policy at the party convention.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 02:07:33 pm
Put simply for you, the SCOC simply took the page from the criminal code that laid out the grounds for a legal abortion and threw it in the garbage as it was deemed to go against Section 7.

Correct.

Quote
Section 7 doesn't, and didn't need to mention abortion.

If there was a Charter right to abortion, it should have been added to the Charter, instead of leaving it up to the Courts to subjectively decide the issue.  It would have just made things a lot easier and clearer.  Questions like is an unborn child a "person", is an unborn baby in the womb at 9months a person and does it have any rights to life/liberty etc.?  What about a fetus at 1 month?  These are tough questions that need to be decided.

There is no legal right to abortion in Canada.  There are simply no laws restricting it or not restricting it.  I have no issue with this, but I do have an issue with some of the way Trudeau has handled the issue in regards to speech etc
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 02:22:09 pm
I believe that is jobs tied to anti-abortion activities. Nobody is having their rights trampled on, they just can't use government funds to trample on other peoples rights.

Under the new rules [for Canada Summer Jobs], organizations must check off a box in their online application that contains an attestation stating that both their core mandate and the job they want to use federal funds to fill, both respect the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms as well as other rights and associated case law.

“These include reproductive rights, and the right to be free from discrimination on the basis of sex, religion, race, national or ethnic origin, colour, mental or physical disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity or expression,” reads the attestation on the application form.

Because of that phrase — and its explicit mention of reproductive rights — some faith groups and anti-abortion groups say ticking the box would require them to betray their beliefs and that requiring them to do so is a violation of their constitutional rights to freedom of religion and freedom of expression.


The right to "be free from discrimination on the basis of sex, religion, race, national or ethnic origin, colour, mental or physical disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity or expression" is explicitly quoted almost word for word in the Charter Section 15.  "Reproductive rights" is not, and is far too vague.

Anyways, the limits remain on Canada Summer Jobs, they just simply removed it from the attestation.  So Service Canada officers make the decision to deny funding or not.  Lawsuit remains pending.  We'll see.

Quote
No, Trudeau is not the Liberal Party of Canada. The membership is, and it is the membership that voted for the policy at the party convention.

Link?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 02:24:11 pm
I believe that is jobs tied to anti-abortion activities. Nobody is having their rights trampled on, they just can't use government funds to trample on other peoples rights.

Speech doesn't trample on anyone's rights.  Denying right to speech tramples on people's rights.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on June 17, 2019, 02:27:28 pm
Sure. You can be a member a party and not agree with parts of their platform.

Just know that the policy won't change.

Too be clear, JT using the abortion issue as a wedge is fear-mongering.

The courts have said voting and abortion are Constitutional rights that women have. 

Should a political party allow a person in who doesn’t want women to vote? 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 17, 2019, 02:30:21 pm
Link?

Page 10, 2012 Convention (https://www.liberal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Ottawa-2012_Adopted-Policy-Resolutions.pdf)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on June 17, 2019, 02:34:31 pm
The courts have said voting and abortion are Constitutional rights that women have. 

Should a political party allow a person in who doesn’t want women to vote?

Sweet Moral Equivalency. Again a CPC government will not restrict the rights of women to have access to abortion. And through 9 years of Stephen Harper it's clear that they wont.

So now the Liberals want to keep the issue as a wedge by introducing people's personal view into it. Because Scheer won't ban people who don't believe in abortions he actually supports banning it, and will ban it.

And it's all or nothing. If you feel there should be some reasonable restrictions on abortion, you're just as bad as someone who won't allow abortion under any circumstances.

Pretty gross politics actually.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 17, 2019, 02:39:41 pm
Speech doesn't trample on anyone's rights.  Denying right to speech tramples on people's rights.

Nobody is denying the right to speech, they are just saying you cannot use government funds. Anti-abortion activists however have a long history of trampling on other peoples rights. Instead of free speech, they are harassing women outside clinics.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 17, 2019, 02:42:04 pm
Again a CPC government will not restrict the rights of women to have access to abortion. And through 9 years of Stephen Harper it's clear that they wont.

The Harper government has a terrible track record, removing funding from NGOs that provide women's reproductive services.



Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 17, 2019, 02:48:05 pm
If you feel there should be some reasonable restrictions on abortion, you're just as bad as someone who won't allow abortion under any circumstances.

I presume you're speaking to the late-term abortion strawman - yes? ... where you presume existing, for example, medical boards aren't capable of self-regulating this most rare circumstance. Rare - yes?

what other "reasonable restrictions" are you calling for?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 02:52:45 pm
Nobody is denying the right to speech, they are just saying you cannot use government funds. Anti-abortion activists however have a long history of trampling on other peoples rights. Instead of free speech, they are harassing women outside clinics.

There's a big difference in speech/advocacy/protest and harassment.  I don't agree with harassment.  Government shouldn't fund harassment, they should be charging people who go over that line.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on June 17, 2019, 03:00:45 pm
I presume you're speaking to the late-term abortion strawman - yes? ... where you presume existing, for example, medical boards aren't capable of self-regulating this most rare circumstance. Rare - yes?

what other "reasonable restrictions" are you calling for?

I'm stating that if you believe there should be "ANY" restrictions you might as well believe Abortion should be banned outright.

It's such a black or white debate. 

I'm not calling for laws, it's not my place. I'm simply stating this whole naming and shaming of people that don't 100% tow the line on abortion is rather distasteful.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 17, 2019, 03:04:04 pm
Sweet Moral Equivalency. Again a CPC government will not restrict the rights of women to have access to abortion. And through 9 years of Stephen Harper it's clear that they wont.

why should pro-choice proponents believe Scheer... many have made the case that he was only elected CPC leader because of anti-abortion groups... just last month 12 CPC members attended this years "March for Life anti-choice rally". What are pro-choice proponents to think when CPC members march in anti-choice rallies, when CPC members sponsor screenings for anti-choice films, when CPC members offer pledges to "fight to make abortion unthinkable in our lifetime?

(https://i.imgur.com/VFnc8Cf.png) 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2019, 03:13:57 pm
Sweet Moral Equivalency. Again a CPC government will not restrict the rights of women to have access to abortion. And through 9 years of Stephen Harper it's clear that they wont.

So now the Liberals want to keep the issue as a wedge by introducing people's personal view into it. Because Scheer won't ban people who don't believe in abortions he actually supports banning it, and will ban it.

And it's all or nothing. If you feel there should be some reasonable restrictions on abortion, you're just as bad as someone who won't allow abortion under any circumstances.

Pretty gross politics actually.

Actually, under Harper between 2006 and 2012 3 Conservative proposals related to pregnancy and unborn children were brought to the floor of the House. In in 2008 did pass second reading but died on the order paper when parliament was dissolved.
Scheer said during campaign comments that HE wouldn't advance any proposals on the issue but backbenches would be allowed to and also to vote their conscience. I wouldn't be to sure that Scheer isn't simply snowballing.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on June 17, 2019, 03:19:50 pm
Sweet Moral Equivalency.

I don't think either right is a moral issue.  Do you support abortion rights? 

I wouldn't want someone in a political party who wants to remove rights from a group of citizens based on an ancient book.


Quote
Again a CPC government will not restrict the rights of women to have access to abortion. And through 9 years of Stephen Harper it's clear that they wont.

As someone else pointed out, NGOs lost funding because of women's reproductive health issues and the Harper govt's stance.   So, yes...  they threw their base some anti-abortion red meat..  I think it's fair to ask questions about Scheer's potential policies given his previous statements on the issue.


Quote
And it's all or nothing. If you feel there should be some reasonable restrictions on abortion, you're just as bad as someone who won't allow abortion under any circumstances.

Not sure where anyone actually said this.  You're straw-manning the argument.


Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 04:17:40 pm
The Harper government has a terrible track record, removing funding from NGOs that provide women's reproductive services.

What's really frustrating is that we have to choose between these religious nutters like Harper and Scheer and social justice nutters like Trudeau and May etc.  There's no reasonable alternative in the middle.  Even someone along the thought lines of a Chretien or Martin would be a decent choice, or a PC Joe Clark type.  Ontario went from Kathleen Wynne to Doug Ford.  What a joke, they're both insane.

Personally I think you'd have to be nuts to run for any leadership given all the 24/7 media and social media these days and the stress that puts on you and your family,  so its mostly only nutters that run for leadership.  I dunno.  This country is going to shit.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 04:25:50 pm
The courts have said voting and abortion are Constitutional rights that women have. 

The courts never said that.  They said the specific anti-abortion law previously in the Criminal Code was unconstitutional.  There's no constitutional right to have an abortion or any constitutional right to limit or ban abortions.  In fact, there's no laws whatsoever in Canada having anything to do with abortion. The issue is dead, as of now its between a woman and her doctor and the medical boards.

Woman's right to vote is protected in the Charter and elsewhere in law.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on June 17, 2019, 04:26:09 pm
What's really frustrating is that we have to choose between these religious nutters like Harper and Scheer and social justice nutters like Trudeau and May etc.
Well at least the "religious nutters" are limited by the courts. The courts have shown themselves to be cheerleaders for "social justice" nutters which makes them much more dangerous.

Personally I think you'd have to be nuts to run for any leadership given all the 24/7 media and social media these days and the stress that puts on you and your family,  so its mostly only nutters that run for leadership.  I dunno.  This country is going to shit.
Yes, there is a Darwinian process at work. Only certain personality types would ever consider the job. OTOH, we get the leaders we deserve. We live in a society where partisans openly advocate a thought police and require that candidates not only support the policies they want but they have to believe that those policies are moral absolutes.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 04:34:09 pm
why should pro-choice proponents believe Scheer... many have made the case that he was only elected CPC leader because of anti-abortion groups... just last month 12 CPC members attended this years "March for Life anti-choice rally". What are pro-choice proponents to think when CPC members march in anti-choice rallies, when CPC members sponsor screenings for anti-choice films, when CPC members offer pledges to "fight to make abortion unthinkable in our lifetime?

It's not called pro-life now but Anti-choice  :D  Here I thought a woman had a right to choose whether a penis ejaculates inside her vaginal canal, or had the right to demand her and her partner use multiple methods of BC properly!  Given these moralized labels, Why not just call it pro-kill babies vs anti-kill babies.  The evil anti-kill babies Scheer strikes again!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 04:35:18 pm
I don't think either right is a moral issue.  Do you support abortion rights? 

What is then?  An economic issue?  An environmental issue?  Certainly there is nothing moral about killing or not killing unborn babies.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on June 17, 2019, 04:37:16 pm
What is then?  An economic issue?  An environmental issue?  Certainly there is nothing moral about killing or not killing unborn babies.

A bodily autonomy issue... 

I guess an argument could be made for a moral judgement, but if this is based on an ancient text, then fuck off; you don't get a say.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2019, 04:40:32 pm
Well at least the "religious nutters" are limited by the courts. The courts have shown themselves to be cheerleaders for "social justice" nutters which makes them much more dangerous.
Yes, there is a Darwinian process at work. Only certain personality types would ever consider the job. OTOH, we get the leaders we deserve. We live in a society where partisans openly advocate a thought police and require that candidates not only support the policies they want but they have to believe that those policies are moral absolutes.

Speak for yourself. I prefer to be governed by laws that come from the idea of fairness than some crap that came out of some stupid book that the religious nutters believe was written by some deity that exists out in space or somewhere. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 04:50:15 pm
A bodily autonomy issue... 

I guess an argument could be made for a moral judgement, but if this is based on an ancient text, then fuck off; you don't get a say.

I'm not religious.  But everyone gets a say.  That's like saying "men don't get a say!".  Everyone should have a say when unborn babies are being killed.  It's like saying "you don't own black slaves or own a plantation or live in the USA, so you shouldn't get a say on slavery so stfu".  We live in a democracy, and as per the Charter, saying someone has no right to an opinion because of their religion or gender/sex is unconstitutional discrimination.  Now yes, those religious opinions may not be illogical  but that's a different story.  The Supreme Court of Canada said that the government has a right to protect the unborn, such as in late-term abortions:

Quote
As Political Science Professor Janine Brodie wrote in an essay published shortly after the 1988 decision:

The majority of the judges (5 of 7) had decided that Section 251 violated Canadian women’s constitutional rights to the security of the person. Only one, however, Madam Justice Bertha Wilson, declared that women had a right to an abortion in the early stages of pregnancy. Moreover, all of the majority decisions conceded the state’s interest in protecting the foetus. 5

More recently, in the aftermath of much media coverage across the country regarding an erroneous understanding of the 1988 Morgentaler decision, former PEI Supreme Court Justice Gerard Mitchell in a letter published in Charlottetown’s newspaper, The Guardian, explained:

None of the seven judges held that there was a constitutional right to abortion on demand. All of the judges acknowledged the state has a legitimate interest in protecting the unborn. Even Madam Justice Wilson, who rendered the most liberal opinion in favour of a woman’s rights, advocated an approach to abortion that would balance those rights with the state’s interest in protecting the unborn. 6

Madam Justice Wilson felt that at some point later in the pregnancy, the state’s interest in the protection of the fetus becomes “compelling” and would justify Parliament enacting legislation to restrict abortion in order to protect the fetus

http://www.morgentalerdecision.ca/charter-right-to-abortion/
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 17, 2019, 04:51:07 pm
It's not called pro-life now but Anti-choice

That is exactly what it is. I don't support having an abortion, but I don't think my opinion should dictate to a woman what she can do. The anti-choice people however believe they have a right to enforce their ideas on a woman.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on June 17, 2019, 04:52:55 pm
I guess an argument could be made for a moral judgement, but if this is based on an ancient text, then fuck off; you don't get a say.
Why does a book have to be involved? The social justice crowd is filled with people who adher to new age spiritualism/gaia worship nonsense. Look at all the people who felt we should make development decisions based on an old man having a dream about a bear (https://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/articles/supreme-court-approves-ski-resort-on-sacred-indigenous-land/88704/).
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 05:04:32 pm
Speak for yourself. I prefer to be governed by laws that come from the idea of fairness than some crap that came out of some stupid book that the religious nutters believe was written by some deity that exists out in space or somewhere.

Well to be fair, social justice nutters have a lot of stupid ideas that come from stupid books as well lol.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 05:10:50 pm
That is exactly what it is. I don't support having an abortion, but I don't think my opinion should dictate to a woman what she can do. The anti-choice people however believe they have a right to enforce their ideas on a woman.

That's because these women want to kill unborn human lives.  Most pro-life people don't care what women do with their lives in any other regard.  They can get boob jobs or cut their legs off, nobody cares.  It's not just her body, another life and another body is involved, which is why it's such a complicated moral issue.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2019, 05:19:47 pm
Well to be fair, social justice nutters have a lot of stupid ideas that come from stupid books as well lol.

Well then we won't let them make laws then will we. Let the sensible ones do that and leave the gd bible out of it.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 17, 2019, 05:21:48 pm
That's because these women want to kill unborn human lives.

That is not how they see it.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2019, 05:25:24 pm
That's because these women want to kill unborn human lives.  Most pro-life people don't care what women do with their lives in any other regard.  They can get boob jobs or cut their legs off, nobody cares.  It's not just her body, another life and another body is involved, which is why it's such a complicated moral issue.

"Cut their legs off"? Maybe take a Valium. And maybe those pro-lifers who "don't care" should refrain from attacking women who try to enter abortion clinics.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on June 17, 2019, 06:05:33 pm
That is not how they see it.
Isn't that the point? This is a moral issue where different people have different deeply held convictions. In a society that values freedom of conscious the only reasonable approach is to protect the right of individuals who want abortions to have access to them while protecting the right of people who morally object to them to express their views.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2019, 06:13:12 pm
Isn't that the point? This is a moral issue where different people have different deeply held convictions. In a society that values freedom of conscious the only reasonable approach is to protect the right of individuals who want abortions to have access to them while protecting the right of people who morally object to them to express their views.

Agreed, as long as they don't express those views in physically threatening ways, as they often have done.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on June 17, 2019, 06:44:03 pm
Agreed, as long as they don't express those views in physically threatening ways, as they often have done.
And how do you reconcile that with the liberal demands that people not only accept that abortion but never express any misgivings about its morality? 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2019, 06:54:15 pm
And how do you reconcile that with the liberal demands that people not only accept that abortion but never express any misgivings about its morality?

Where did you get the idea they do that?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 07:02:49 pm
That is not how they see it.

Of course not.  Why would people who support abortions think they are killing unborn human lives?  Abortions are clearly about removing stale BLT sandwiches from the mother's womb.

If suspect if women wanted the right to kill and remove stale BLT sandwiches from the a woman's womb you would get 100% support from all Canadians including Scheer and Harper.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2019, 07:45:57 pm
Of course not.  Why would people who support abortions think they are killing unborn human lives?  Abortions are clearly about removing stale BLT sandwiches from the mother's womb.

If suspect if women wanted the right to kill and remove stale BLT sandwiches from the a woman's womb you would get 100% support from all Canadians including Scheer and Harper.

Does the "L" in your reference to BLT's stand for the "legs" you were speaking of that women could cut off instead of having abortions? Scheer and Harper might get some sort of weird giggle out of that but I suspect and certainly hope that very few Canadians share that thype of intellect.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Rue on June 17, 2019, 07:56:02 pm
You guys have been off topic side Boges post reply 365. But hey I can't count.

The abortion/ free choice issue is non partisan. All parties have  MPs pro and against it.


I assume  you guys ran out of insults for Scheer?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2019, 08:15:11 pm



I assume  you guys ran out of insults for Scheer?

Depends if/when he cozies up to the likes of Faith Goldy again I suppose.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 08:26:11 pm
Does the "L" in your reference to BLT's stand for the "legs" you were speaking of that women could cut off instead of having abortions? Scheer and Harper might get some sort of weird giggle out of that but I suspect and certainly hope that very few Canadians share that thype of intellect.

You're offended because i said nobody would interfere if a woman wanted the right to cut off her own legs, but some do want to interfere with her right to kill the life she's carrying? The life that can't speak or advocate for itself, has no consent to being created or destroyed, and has no advocates besides "anti-choice" supporters. Do you think i'm being misogynist?  Does it offend you that millions of unborn kids are being killed each year?

Maybe i have this crazy sense of morality and responsibility that thinks a woman shouldn't consent to having a man cum in her, with or without birth control, until she is ready to accept all the risks and responsibilities that come with that choice.  If a man cums inside a woman, with or without birth control, without her expressed consent, he should be charged with rape and sent to jail, and abortions allowed in those cases, because yes she should have choice to consent because yes it is her body.

The right to kill human life because people think they have the unalienable right to 5 seconds of pleasure without consequence is the most selfish and horrific right in a modern liberal democracy i can think of. It has led to millions of unborn babies being killed every year. A damned holocaust of unborn lives on a scale far larger than the nazi holocaust.  But most people don't consider this because they want to fuck.  Meanwhile some of these same people are vegan hypocrites who think it's immoral to eat dairy because it's cruel!...but fetuses?  Fuck em!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on June 17, 2019, 08:28:35 pm
I assume  you guys ran out of insults for Scheer?

I want him or Trudeau to win with a tiny majority then the other two parties to re-leader with either

1) An old school unifier, who understands value and can deliver without spending too much: like John Tory
or
2) Some young firebrand visionary who stays far away from identity politics either right or left

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 08:30:05 pm
Women are terrified of Scheer, he might take away their rights.  Unborn babies should terrified of Trudeau.  If they could run for their lives, they would.

Maybe we should give babies suffrage?  Wonder how they'd vote?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 08:31:11 pm
I want him or Trudeau to win with a tiny majority then the other two parties to re-leader with either

1) An old school unifier, who understands value and can deliver without spending too much: like John Tory
or
2) Some young firebrand visionary who stays far away from identity politics either right or left

Tory would make a good PM i think.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2019, 09:02:38 pm
You're offended because i said nobody would interfere if a woman wanted the right to cut off her own legs, but some do want to interfere with her right to kill the life she's carrying? The life that can't speak or advocate for itself, has no consent to being created or destroyed, and has no advocates besides "anti-choice" supporters. Do you think i'm being misogynist?  Does it offend you that millions of unborn kids are being killed each year?

Maybe i have this crazy sense of morality and responsibility that thinks a woman shouldn't consent to having a man cum in her, with or without birth control, until she is ready to accept all the risks and responsibilities that come with that choice.  If a man cums inside a woman, with or without birth control, without her expressed consent, he should be charged with rape and sent to jail, and abortions allowed in those cases, because yes she should have choice to consent because yes it is her body.

The right to kill human life because people think they have the unalienable right to 5 seconds of pleasure without consequence is the most selfish and horrific right in a modern liberal democracy i can think of. It has led to millions of unborn babies being killed every year. A damned holocaust of unborn lives on a scale far larger than the nazi holocaust.  But most people don't consider this because they want to fuck.  Meanwhile some of these same people are vegan hypocrites who think it's immoral to eat dairy because it's cruel!...but fetuses?  Fuck em!

1. I'm not offended, simply pointing out how silly the comparison was/is. 'Millions of unborn kids" is equally an attempt at an inflammatory statement. I don't know about your "millions of kids being killed each year" but most abortions in Canada happen well before the fetus would be viable.

2. A lot of young people have sex because those damn hormones start to mature and yes they may do so without proper protection. Forcing her to carry the baby and throwing him in jail seems about as counterproductive as it could get.

3. Yep. Most people want to fuck.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 17, 2019, 10:05:48 pm
The abortion/ free choice issue is non partisan. All parties have  MPs pro and against it.

I assume you guys ran out of insults for Scheer?

 ;D "non-partisan"... says member Rue - the weakSauce Scheer apologist!

(https://i.imgur.com/VFnc8Cf.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: kimmy on June 17, 2019, 10:24:37 pm
I don't know - I feel like the gender stuff is called out.. 

Bold words from the "If I post that on Facebook my friends will be mad at me" guy.  When has somebody from "the left" ever "called out" anything from the trans movement?  Has that ever happened?  Either on the forum here or in the broader world of Canadian politics?

If I hold something ridiculous right under your nose I can get a grudging "this is a starting point for a conversation..." from you and some absurd rationalizations and deflections from some of the "left" members here, and that's about it. I can't recall any of this "calling out" ever happening.

 -k
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: kimmy on June 17, 2019, 10:29:40 pm
;D "non-partisan"... says member Rue - the weakSauce Scheer apologist!

(https://i.imgur.com/VFnc8Cf.png)

Link to actual site, please?

 -k
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: kimmy on June 17, 2019, 10:34:30 pm
Yes, the CPC have been whining about Engage Canada for some time.

Well of course. "We have to get the outside money out of politics!" is a popular refrain from whichever side is on the receiving end.

 -k
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 10:58:46 pm
1. I'm not offended, simply pointing out how silly the comparison was/is. 'Millions of unborn kids" is equally an attempt at an inflammatory statement. I don't know about your "millions of kids being killed each year" but most abortions in Canada happen well before the fetus would be viable.

Infllammtory?  It's a fact.  There's 600,000 abortions every year in the US alone.  Luckily the #'s keep decreasing.  There used to be well over a million every year in the US up until the late 90's.  In 1994 there were over 1.4 million abortions.

2. A lot of young people have sex because those damn hormones start to mature and yes they may do so without proper protection. Forcing her to carry the baby and throwing him in jail seems about as counterproductive as it could get.

You don't think rapists should be jailed?  What should we do with them then?  Being irresponsible & making dumb decisions and killing the mistake is quite counterproductive don't you think?  How about we force young people with raging hormones to learn how to use a condom properly, the pill properly, to not jizz inside a lady.  Just pull it out and cum on her tits or in her mouth, mouth feels even better than vagina.  Man do i have some things to teach these kids!  :D

Quote
3. Yep. Most people want to fuck.

That's fine.  Do it a certain way i can 100% guarantee you won't pregnant.  It's not hard.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2019, 11:23:34 pm
Infllammtory?  It's a fact.  There's 600,000 abortions every year in the US alone.  Luckily the #'s keep decreasing.  There used to be well over a million every year in the US up until the late 90's.  In 1994 there were over 1.4 million abortions.

2. A lot of young people have sex because those damn hormones start to mature and yes they may do so without proper protection. Forcing her to carry the baby and throwing him in jail seems about as counterproductive as it could get.

You don't think rapists should be jailed?  What should we do with them then?  Being irresponsible & making dumb decisions and killing the mistake is quite counterproductive don't you think?

That's fine.  Do it a certain way i can 100% guarantee you won't pregnant.  It's not hard.

Most young men who have sex with young women are not rapists. And yes they should both take precautions. But if fertilization takes place, the decision of how to proceed should be left to them, or maybe just her if he runs away, and not some holier than thou chest beaters who will seek to deny her the choice, disappear the next day not giving a fiddelly arse that she may now have to seek a back alley knitting needle artist because she has no way to support a child. I wouldn't be so quick to flog that hollow form of righteousness myself.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 11:26:12 pm
When has somebody from "the left" ever "called out" anything from the trans movement?  Has that ever happened?  Either on the forum here or in the broader world of Canadian politics?

When even being accused of being a racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe etc is a ticket to social ostracization (losing friends, losing your job)...that's a pretty powerful way to make sure people you don't agree with STFU.

I used to do the same thing i suppose but as my views less frequently align with the progressive mainstream as i get older i realize how damned self-righteous i used to be, and almost all progressives are.

Most progressives are self-righteous assholes and most conservatives are ignorant assholes. Point being, most people are assholes.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on June 17, 2019, 11:28:05 pm
Of course not.  Why would people who support abortions think they are killing unborn human lives?  Abortions are clearly about removing stale BLT sandwiches from the mother's womb.

Hmm... ya ... wow ... this is really getting serious.

Maybe we should just remove men's hot dogs instead.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 11:36:29 pm
Most young men who have sex with young women are not rapists.

Exactly.  So when a female tells her fella "please don't ejaculate inside me", most will comply.  If they don't, it's rape.

Quote
...not giving a fiddelly arse that she may now have to seek a back alley knitting needle artist because she has no way to support a child.

Why does she have to go to back-alley needle artist if she can't support the child?  Just give the baby up for adoption.  If your health means you shouldn't carry the baby to term, yes abortion can be appropriate there, but inconvenience doesn't seem like a very moral explanation.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 17, 2019, 11:38:48 pm
Hmm... ya ... wow ... this is really getting serious.

Maybe we should just remove men's hot dogs instead.

If a man ejaculates inside a woman despite her saying for him not to, yes maybe we should remove his hot dog.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 17, 2019, 11:51:37 pm
Exactly.  So when a female tells her fella "please don't ejaculate inside me", most will comply.  If they don't, it's rape.

Why does she have to go to back-alley needle artist if she can't support the child?  Just give the baby up for adoption.  If your health means you shouldn't carry the baby to term, yes abortion can be appropriate there, but inconvenience doesn't seem like a very moral explanation.

You obviously have no idea what the legal description of rape means. If intercourse is consensual and ejaculation occurs it certainly does NOT amount to rape.

And actually for your further edification, here in Canada we don't call it rape as far as a legal term is concerned. Look up "Sexual assault".
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on June 18, 2019, 12:35:17 am
If a man ejaculates inside a woman despite her saying for him not to, yes maybe we should remove his hot dog.

Well, no ... best do it BEFORE conception occurs.
Men need to have their hot dogs removed so women don't have to have the BLT's  removed.

No hot dogs, no BLT's.

Let's put responsibility where it belongs.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2019, 12:46:57 am
I had a home made spicy chicken tortilla for dinner earlier on. Where does that leave me?

I'll take a wrap on the fingers for thread drift but couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 18, 2019, 11:42:49 am
You obviously have no idea what the legal description of rape means. If intercourse is consensual and ejaculation occurs it certainly does NOT amount to rape.

That's not what I said and you know that.  I said if the woman tells the man specifically not to ejaculate in her but he does anyways, that is rape.  Please stop misrepresenting my arguments to make them easier for you to argue, that's what a strawman is, you do it frequently.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 18, 2019, 12:23:30 pm
That's not what I said and you know that.  I said if the woman tells the man specifically not to ejaculate in her but he does anyways, that is rape.  Please stop misrepresenting my arguments to make them easier for you to argue, that's what a strawman is, you do it frequently.

You just said the same thing over again. And once again, if you are referring to Canada, rape is not a legal term. And if sex is consensual and the "withdrawl" method is an agreed to form of birth control but she gets pregnant anyway, you would have a pretty tough slog trying to prove "sexual assault" occurred. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 18, 2019, 12:43:13 pm
And how do you reconcile that with the liberal demands that people not only accept that abortion but never express any misgivings about its morality?

How do you continue to repeat the same bullshit. If you want to be a representative of the Liberal Party of Canada then you must follow their policy decisions. Nobody is forced to do anything against their will.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 18, 2019, 12:48:32 pm
How about we force young people with raging hormones to learn how to use a condom properly, the pill properly, to not jizz inside a lady. 

The biggest problem of all is those who are anti-choice are often vehemently against having sex education and the accessibility of contraceptives.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 18, 2019, 01:14:07 pm
The biggest problem of all is those who are anti-choice are often vehemently against having sex education and the accessibility of contraceptives.

This is absolutely true.  I don't agree with it at all.  For these people it's about religious values where you're not supposed to have sex until you're married, and then only for children.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on June 19, 2019, 03:20:30 am
This is absolutely true.  I don't agree with it at all.  For these people it's about religious values where you're not supposed to have sex until you're married, and then only for children.
No wonder they're sex obsessed!

It's just kind of odd that a thread about Andrew Scheer
ends up here.

He's got a new environmental platform now, too small to see with the naked eye, but hey! The guy's trying!

Oh look! It's the battle of the kilotonnes!
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scheer-climate-environment-plan-election-von-scheel-1.5177187

A portion of Scheer's plan, obtained by CBC News, would compel facilities that produce 40 kilotonnes of emissions or more per year to invest in green tech. The Trudeau government's current rules impose emission caps on firms that emit more than 50 kilotonnes per year.

He's beating Trudeau!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 19, 2019, 06:58:58 am
Oh look! It's the battle of the kilotonnes!
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scheer-climate-environment-plan-election-von-scheel-1.5177187

A portion of Scheer's plan, obtained by CBC News, would compel facilities that produce 40 kilotonnes of emissions or more per year to invest in green tech. The Trudeau government's current rules impose emission caps on firms that emit more than 50 kilotonnes per year.

Biggest polluters are oil/gas.  Will he make them pay significantly?  Not likely.  If he says they will, i don't believe him.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on June 19, 2019, 07:37:45 am
Biggest polluters are oil/gas.  Will he make them pay significantly?  Not likely.  If he says they will, i don't believe him.
The trouble is there is no political space for people that agree that CO2 is an issue but think that CO2 emissions reduction targets are pointless virtue signalling. The only real plan to deal with emissions is a long term investment in low emission technology. While a revenue neutral carbon tax is theoretically the best way to do that it is a crude instrument because some important industries have limited ability to reduce emissions in the short term and would be forced to shut down in the face of a large carbon tax.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2019, 08:23:33 am
And how do you reconcile that with the liberal demands that people not only accept that abortion but never express any misgivings about its morality?
You care to cite the legislation the Liberals passed where people are arrested for not accepting abortion or expressing any misgivings for it?

You can express whatever the hell you want. Free expression for everyone means others get to point out that they think you're an idiot for your opinions too.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on June 19, 2019, 08:25:05 am
How do you continue to repeat the same bullshit. If you want to be a representative of the Liberal Party of Canada then you must follow their policy decisions. Nobody is forced to do anything against their will.
Why, it's almost like politicians can choose their party.  :D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: TimG on June 19, 2019, 08:44:19 am
You care to cite the legislation the Liberals passed where people are arrested for not accepting abortion or expressing any misgivings for it?
Huh? Nothing I said suggests that people would be arrested. As for the the point I actually made: the attestation requirement imposed on summer grants:  In order to access funding, groups now must agree to respect women’s reproductive rights, including the right to abortion (spelled out in the guidance document with the application).

This effectively prohibited groups from speaking out on abortion even if their funding request had nothing to do with their believe on abortion.

You can express whatever the hell you want. Free expression for everyone means others get to point out that they think you're an idiot for your opinions too.
Wrong. When mobs seek to punish people for saying things they do not like they seek to deny others the ability to speak. Claiming that such actions are just someone else exercising "free speech" is like claiming that punching someone in the face is just someone exercising their "right of free movement". To mean anything free speech has to be supported by civil society in addition to limits on what governments can do.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 19, 2019, 11:14:02 am
it's a part of the attempt to rebrand Scheer before the election! To get an appreciation of how this symbolic action by Scheer is not going over well with "the base", peel on through the comments Scheer's tweet announcement of it received - wow, just wow! (https://twitter.com/AndrewScheer/status/1134980226604306432)

I say symbolic as there will be but a few short weeks left in the Parliamentary session before adjournment - the real testament of a rebrandedScheer would have been Cooper's removal from the CPC caucus. Of course most Canadians were first introduced to the weasel Cooper (aka 'crypt-keeper') during his many over-the-top actions during the Judicial Committee review of, les affaire SNC-Lavalin!
(https://i.imgur.com/KdRf9Ch.jpg)

weakAndy so profusely proclaimed bigots were not welcome in the CPC... only to subsequently give Cooper a pass... to allow him to stay within the CPC caucus - Cooper, the guy who came to the Justice Committee with the infamous manifesto at-the-ready, and actually read portions of it into the record!

Quote from: CPC leader Andrew Scheer
There is absolutely no room in a peaceful and free country like Canada for intolerance, racism and extremism of any kind. And the Conservative Party of Canada will always make that absolutely clear.

I find the notion that one's race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation would make anyone in any way superior or inferior to anyone else absolutely repugnant. And if there's anyone who disagrees with that, there's the door. You are not welcome here.

MP Michael Cooper disparaged 'goat herder cultures' (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/michael-cooper-goat-herder-cultures-1.5179039?cmp=rss)

Quote
Conservative MP Michael Cooper made comments deriding "goat herder cultures" during a discussion about Islam's compatibility with Canadian democracy when he was a law student at the University of Alberta a decade ago, according to two lawyers who have come forward to talk about the incident.

The lawyers allege the comments were made during a heated discussion in a seminar on multiculturalism and the minority rights section of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, with Cooper arguing that some cultures were incompatible with Canada's "Judeo-Christian values."

c'mon weakSauce... you figuratively showed Cooper the door... make it literal Andy... make it real!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2019, 11:51:51 am
Huh? Nothing I said suggests that people would be arrested. As for the the point I actually made: the attestation requirement imposed on summer grants:  In order to access funding, groups now must agree to respect women’s reproductive rights, including the right to abortion (spelled out in the guidance document with the application).

This effectively prohibited groups from speaking out on abortion even if their funding request had nothing to do with their believe on abortion.

If you read the text by the box you need to tick off on the application it simply says you must respect peoples individual rights under the law.

Trudeau quite clearly stated that you can have whatever beliefs you like.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 19, 2019, 12:14:55 pm
it's a part of the attempt to rebrand Scheer before the election! To get an appreciation of how this symbolic action by Scheer is not going over well with "the base", peel on through the comments Scheer's tweet announcement of it received - wow, just wow! (https://twitter.com/AndrewScheer/status/1134980226604306432)

I say symbolic as there will be but a few short weeks left in the Parliamentary session before adjournment - the real testament of a rebrandedScheer would have been Cooper's removal from the CPC caucus. Of course most Canadians were first introduced to the weasel Cooper (aka 'crypt-keeper') during his many over-the-top actions during the Judicial Committee review of, les affaire SNC-Lavalin!

What did Cooper do wrong in the committee?  Nothing, from what I see:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/michael-cooper-goat-herder-cultures-1.5179039

Cooper took issue with how Suri, president of the Alberta Muslim Public Affairs Council, described the online history of Alexandre Bissonnette, the man sentenced to life in prison in February for shooting six people dead in a Quebec City mosque in January, 2017.

"The evidence from Bissonette's computer showed he repeatedly sought content about anti-immigrant, alt-right and conservative commentators, mass murderers, U.S. President Donald Trump, and about Muslims, immigrants living in Quebec," Suri said.

Suri went on to say that people like Robert Bowers — who is alleged to have killed 11 people in a synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh in October — and the man accused of shooting and killing 51 people at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand in March, were similarly influenced by online hate coming from "alt-right online networks."

When it was his turn to ask Suri and other witnesses questions, Cooper laid into the Alberta anti-racism activist, accusing him of suggesting a link between "conservatism" and violent extremism.

The Conservative MP then read into the record a passage from the Christchurch killer's 74-page manifesto — which has been banned in New Zealand. In the passage, the alleged killer is quoted as saying the social and political values of China are close to his own and that he rejects "conservatism."

"I certainly wouldn't attempt to link Bernie Sanders to the individual who shot up Republican members of Congress and nearly fatally killed congressman [Stephen] Scalise," Cooper said. "So you should be ashamed."
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2019, 12:41:20 pm
What did Cooper do wrong in the committee?  Nothing, from what I see:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/michael-cooper-goat-herder-cultures-1.5179039

Cooper took issue with how Suri, president of the Alberta Muslim Public Affairs Council, described the online history of Alexandre Bissonnette, the man sentenced to life in prison in February for shooting six people dead in a Quebec City mosque in January, 2017.

"The evidence from Bissonette's computer showed he repeatedly sought content about anti-immigrant, alt-right and conservative commentators, mass murderers, U.S. President Donald Trump, and about Muslims, immigrants living in Quebec," Suri said.

Suri went on to say that people like Robert Bowers — who is alleged to have killed 11 people in a synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh in October — and the man accused of shooting and killing 51 people at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand in March, were similarly influenced by online hate coming from "alt-right online networks."

When it was his turn to ask Suri and other witnesses questions, Cooper laid into the Alberta anti-racism activist, accusing him of suggesting a link between "conservatism" and violent extremism.

The Conservative MP then read into the record a passage from the Christchurch killer's 74-page manifesto — which has been banned in New Zealand. In the passage, the alleged killer is quoted as saying the social and political values of China are close to his own and that he rejects "conservatism."

"I certainly wouldn't attempt to link Bernie Sanders to the individual who shot up Republican members of Congress and nearly fatally killed congressman [Stephen] Scalise," Cooper said. "So you should be ashamed."


The comments he read from the manifesto were offensive, most likely disingenuous, and used simply as bad faith trolling to attempt to lure people into divisive arguments. The committee voted unanimously to remove his nonsense from the transcript, and even Scheer had the good sense to at least remove him from the committee. I wonder if the "good sense" though wasn't more like an awareness of the bad PR this could bring to the party.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 19, 2019, 03:20:16 pm
The comments he read from the manifesto were offensive, most likely disingenuous, and used simply as bad faith trolling to attempt to lure people into divisive arguments. The committee voted unanimously to remove his nonsense from the transcript, and even Scheer had the good sense to at least remove him from the committee.

Again, here's what the CBC summarized from the quote i linked above:

Quote
The Conservative MP then read into the record a passage from the Christchurch killer's 74-page manifesto — which has been banned in New Zealand. In the passage, the alleged killer is quoted as saying the social and political values of China are close to his own and that he rejects "conservatism."

The CBC stated that a Canadian Muslim leader was testifying before the committee and said that there was a link between "conservative commentators" and the Christchurch shooter's motives, and he lumped "conservative commentators" in with commentators who were alt-right, mass murderers, anti-immigrant etc.  As per above, the conservative MP was offended by this inaccurate statement & so read a passage from the shooter's manifesto that said he rejects "conservatism".

What is offensive about that?  Was it simply the fact that the MP mentioned the name of the shooter and read anything from the manifesto, especially in front of a Muslim witness?  That's what it seems like:

Quote
A controversial statement by Conservative MP Michael Cooper before the Commons justice committee — in which he named the New Zealand mosque shooter and recited passages from his manifesto — will be officially struck from the record.

New Zealand's government banned distribution of that 74-page manifesto, arguing the document "promotes murder and terrorism."

NDP MP Tracey Ramsay said today the committee had an obligation to remove the references.  "That should never have been read into the record. It was completely inappropriate," she said.

Liberal MP Iqra Khalid insisted this is not a political or partisan issue, but rather a question of correcting a wrong and ensuring that witnesses feel safe when appearing before a Commons committee.

"Striking this from the record will ensure that the safety of this space has been restored," she said.

Conservative MPs argued the Liberals are trying to score political points and said it's wrong to change an official record.

Several historians also have criticized the decision to sanitize the official record, saying it undermines the integrity of Parliament and the goal of holding MPs to account for egregious conduct.  The Canadian Historical Association said the unusual move will impede future historians' ability to fully understand and analyze this incident and its context.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cooper-justice-committee-nz-attacker-1.5174186

Quote
The committee voted unanimously to remove his nonsense from the transcript,

Not quite: 

Quote
After a testy exchange, MPs on the Commons justice committee voted 6-0 today in favour of the unusual move to purge Hansard, the official parliamentary record.  Three Conservative members abstained from the vote. One Conservative MP, Michael Barrett, called the Liberal-led manoeuvre a "stunt."

Quote
I wonder if the "good sense" though wasn't more like an awareness of the bad PR this could bring to the party.

It all looks like a PR stunt to me: CPC MP claims the witness was trying to lump the shooter with conservatism, Liberal/NDP MP's claim CPC MP is a bigot to smear CPC MP & vote to remove his comments from the record. Other CPC MP's abstain from vote so they don't look like bigots.  Scheer then bows to bad PR & removes CPC MP from committee. It's all theatre.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 19, 2019, 03:23:42 pm
Quote
""Striking this from the record will ensure that the safety of this space has been restored," she [NDP member] said.

Apparently justice committees are now "safe spaces" as per the NDP committee MP, and you can't mention controversial info or the names of murderers or even have it on the record because somebody might be offended.   ::)

Let's coddle our democracy in a bubble just like we do our kids!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2019, 03:39:37 pm
. It's all theatre.
[/quote]

Attempting to use a murderers "manifesto" as evidence made it all very bad theater. Both sides agreed and acted. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 19, 2019, 04:04:12 pm
Attempting to use a murderers "manifesto" as evidence made it all very bad theater. Both sides agreed and acted.

I don't find quoting a manifesto of someone everyone in the committee was discussing as bad taste.

Anyways, the CPC MP seems like a doorknob based on alleged law school comments he made, so maybe there's more to the story, but I haven't read it.  Scheer dug himself into this hole based on previous actions/comments so now he has to be extra vigilant against alt-right type people in his party.  I can see Scheer booting him out of caucus if he were smart.

The conservative and progressive parties in this country are a joke, this country is going to hell.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 19, 2019, 04:16:34 pm
I don't find quoting a manifesto of someone everyone in the committee was discussing as bad taste.

Anyways, the CPC MP seems like a doorknob based on alleged law school comments he made, so maybe there's more to the story, but I haven't read it.  Scheer dug himself into this hole based on previous actions/comments so now he has to be extra vigilant against alt-right type people in his party.  I can see Scheer booting him out of caucus if he were smart.

The conservative and progressive parties in this country are a joke, this country is going to hell.

The document was written by an obviously mentally deranged man who killed 51 people so attempting to use it as some sort of evidence is not valid.

If you think this country is "going to hell", take a look at our southern neighbor lately. I much prefer to stay here thanks.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 19, 2019, 06:23:37 pm
What did Cooper do wrong in the committee?  Nothing, from what I see
The CBC stated that a Canadian Muslim leader was testifying before the committee and said that there was a link between "conservative commentators" and the Christchurch shooter's motives, and he lumped "conservative commentators" in with commentators who were alt-right, mass murderers, anti-immigrant etc.  As per above, the conservative MP was offended by this inaccurate statement & so read a passage from the shooter's manifesto that said he rejects "conservatism".

Quote from: leader of the CPC, Andrew Scheer
Reading the name and quoting the words of the Christchurch shooter, especially when directed at a Muslim witness during a parliamentary hearing, is insensitive and unacceptable. Mr. Cooper has apologized. I accept his apology and I consider the matter closed

summarizing the extent of what was said by the witness - Alberta Muslim Public Affairs Council president Faisal Khan Suri:
Quote
"The evidence from Bissonette's computer showed he repeatedly sought content about anti-immigrant, alt-right and conservative commentators, mass murderers, U.S. President Donald Trump, and about Muslims, immigrants living in Quebec," Suri said. He added that two other shooters in recent history — including the man who killed 11 people in a Pittsburgh synagogue in October 2019, and the man accused of killing 51 people at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand — were also influenced by the spread of hate from alt-right networks.

apparently, simply mentioning "conservative commentators" as a part of the terrorists content review history... was enough to set the clearly unhinged Cooper off!

but what about Cooper and the goat-huuurduuuurs (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/michael-cooper-goat-herder-cultures-1.5179039)?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 20, 2019, 01:13:06 am
The document was written by an obviously mentally deranged man who killed 51 people so attempting to use it as some sort of evidence is not valid.

He left behind a manifesto that described his motives and ideology.  Of course it's valid.  Only a fool would ignore such a huge piece of evidence.  Mein Kampf is nutty but it's still valid.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 20, 2019, 01:20:42 am
Scheer: "Reading the name and quoting the words of the Christchurch shooter, especially when directed at a Muslim witness during a parliamentary hearing, is insensitive and unacceptable. Mr. Cooper has apologized. I accept his apology and I consider the matter closed."

That's ridiculous.  Scheer is just bowing to PC pressure nonsense.  Grow some balls weaksauce!  Reading the name of the shooter is insensitive?  :D That's the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

Osama bin Laden was the mastermind of 9/11.  As a christian westerner i'm offended by hearing his name OMG I'M MELTING!!!

Go ask Rue if hearing Hitler's name drops him into the fetal position.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on June 20, 2019, 02:09:08 am
What is offensive about that?  Was it simply the fact that the MP mentioned the name of the shooter and read anything from the manifesto, especially in front of a Muslim witness?  That's what it seems like:

What's Cooper doing at the committee meeting with a mass killer's manifesto?
Seems he planned his attack in advance.

Suri said that Bissonnette’s [who murdered 6 Muslims in Quebec] online history showed he repeatedly sought out “alt-right and conservative commentators” and encouraged more action on online hate.
...
On Tuesday, Cooper said Faisal Khan Suri, the president of the Alberta Muslim Public Affairs Council, should “be ashamed” of himself for linking conservative commentators to Quebec mosque shooter Alexandre Bissonnette and the terror attacks in New Zealand.


Well, of course I guess It's just more important to Cooper to defend conservative commentators that to be concerned about online hate against Muslims. <sarcasm>

50 Muslimd dead in NZ
6  Muslims dead in  Quebec.

But at least he didn't say "goatherder".
Anybody want to take bets that Cooper will be the next mass Muslim shooter?
He's a raving racist lunatic.
We pay him for that?!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 20, 2019, 01:48:20 pm
What's Cooper doing at the committee meeting with a mass killer's manifesto?

I assume Cooper and everyone else has laptops and access to the internet.  If they were talking about targeted killings of Muslims by these types of western white terrorists all of that evidence seems pretty relevant.

Why can a committee on 9/11 read from Bin Laden's fatwa's (filled with anti-semetic & anti-Christian hate) but a committee on western anti-Muslim terror can't read from a killer's manifesto?  And not even a part that expressed any hatred?  Such PC fragility BS.  And the progressive MPs even struck relevant facts like the shooter's name from the official government record.  Ridiculous censorship.

Quote
Seems he planned his attack in advance.

You have no evidence for that, pure speculation.  We don't know how much time took place between Suri's comment and Cooper's response.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2019, 02:09:50 pm
I assume Cooper and everyone else has laptops and access to the internet.  If they were talking about targeted killings of Muslims by these types of western white terrorists all of that evidence seems pretty relevant.

Why can a committee on 9/11 read from Bin Laden's fatwa's (filled with anti-semetic & anti-Christian hate) but a committee on western anti-Muslim terror can't read from a killer's manifesto?  And not even a part that expressed any hatred?  Such PC fragility BS.  And the progressive MPs even struck relevant facts like the shooter's name from the official government record.  Ridiculous censorship.

You have no evidence for that, pure speculation.  We don't know how much time took place between Suri's comment and Cooper's response.

Huh?
The response occurred during a committee meeting so obviously the time difference was moments.  And yes we all have computers on which we can read stuff. Suri's comments came from what he read as to Alexandre Bissonnette's online history and expressing what it showed. Cooper said he should "be ashamed of himself" for expressing what he read, and then goes on to read from the manifesto. If you don't get the hypocrisy there then I can't help ya.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 20, 2019, 05:04:41 pm
Huh?
The response occurred during a committee meeting so obviously the time difference was moments.

Not obvious at all.  How long did Suri's testimony go on for after the comment before the next person was allowed to speak?  Was Cooper the next person to speak?  Facts are facts, speculation is speculation.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 20, 2019, 05:19:29 pm
Not obvious at all.  How long did Suri's testimony go on for after the comment before the next person was allowed to speak?  Was Cooper the next person to speak?  Facts are facts, speculation is speculation.

Why would you waste time fretting over time between comments when the comments are what are important here? Cooper's comments brought the meeting to a close and and prompted Scheer to remove him from his position. I personally don't think Scheer went far enough, but that's his call.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 20, 2019, 06:14:58 pm
Why would you waste time fretting over time between comments when the comments are what are important here? Cooper's comments brought the meeting to a close and and prompted Scheer to remove him from his position. I personally don't think Scheer went far enough, but that's his call.

I wish there was video footage.  Cooper may have been in the wrong, or others may have overreacted, we really don't know.  Calling for Cooper to be removed from caucus over something we don't know much about seems harsh.  The allegations of Cooper making offensive comments in law school seems much more worthy of expulsion from caucus.  Calling Muslims "goat-herders" is much more offensive than naming & quoting a terrorist.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 20, 2019, 06:15:28 pm
What's Cooper doing at the committee meeting with a mass killer's manifesto?
Seems he planned his attack in advance.
I assume Cooper and everyone else has laptops and access to the internet.
Not obvious at all.  How long did Suri's testimony go on for after the comment before the next person was allowed to speak?  Was Cooper the next person to speak?  Facts are facts, speculation is speculation.

please sir, your premise does not hold up... for whatever point you think it actually makes! Your premise: that the alt-right favouring Michael Cooper simply googlied up the Christchurch terrorist's manifesto as an immediate response to the testimony being given by Alberta Muslim Public Affairs Council president Faisal Khan Suri

actually, "it was a strategy - he had the document printed"
https://globalnewsdigitalvideo.corusdigitaldev.com/Shaw_-_News/919/659/TU_LIBMPONCOOPER_040619.mp4

on edit: video comment from Randy Boissonnault, Liberal MP for Edmonton Centre... member of the Justice Committee
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 20, 2019, 09:51:57 pm
actually, "it was a strategy - he had the document printed"
https://globalnewsdigitalvideo.corusdigitaldev.com/Shaw_-_News/919/659/TU_LIBMPONCOOPER_040619.mp4

on edit: video comment from Randy Boissonnault, Liberal MP for Edmonton Centre... member of the Justice Committee

MP in the video says the manifesto is hard to find, can take an hour to find.  I found it within seconds on the 2nd link on a search query i clicked on.

The manifesto has been banned in New Zealand, and is obviously censored in Canada too, at least in government.  Yet the equally hateful and violent fatwas of Bin Laden are not.

Who knows why Cooper had it printed.  What was his M.O.?  Wild speculation is not good enough, especially from an MP, & especially from an MP who in the same breath already asserted false information in order to smear Cooper, re: the manifesto availability online.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 21, 2019, 12:58:40 am
Who knows why Cooper had it printed.  What was his M.O.?  Wild speculation is not good enough

why bother being such an apologist for the guy?

=> can you offer any rationale explanation as to why CPC MP Cooper would come to the Justice Committee hearing with a hard-copy of the Christchurch terrorist's 'manifesto'?

=> can you explain why CPC MP Cooper would take such exception to having a review of content history stated... a review that simply mentioned that a terrorist included conservative commentators within the content he sought out?

summarizing the extent of what was said by the witness - Alberta Muslim Public Affairs Council president Faisal Khan Suri:
Quote
"The evidence from Bissonette's computer showed he repeatedly sought content about anti-immigrant, alt-right and conservative commentators, mass murderers, U.S. President Donald Trump, and about Muslims, immigrants living in Quebec," Suri said. He added that two other shooters in recent history — including the man who killed 11 people in a Pittsburgh synagogue in October 2019, and the man accused of killing 51 people at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand — were also influenced by the spread of hate from alt-right networks.
apparently, simply mentioning "conservative commentators" as a part of the terrorists content review history... was enough to set the clearly unhinged Cooper off!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 21, 2019, 12:23:53 pm
why bother being such an apologist for the guy?

The censors and moral bullies will come after us for stupid reasons too next.

Quote
=> can you offer any rationale explanation as to why CPC MP Cooper would come to the Justice Committee hearing with a hard-copy of the Christchurch terrorist's 'manifesto'?

Possible explanations:

- Cooper is a closet Nazi who carries around the manifesto in his front chest pocket close to his heart at all times.

- Cooper is at a committee hearing on online hate and has key evidence prepared in front of him for reference.

- Cooper has psychic powers to know what Suri was going to say in advance so Cooper prepared his response and paperwork in advance and "set him up".  Cooper then reported back to Professor X and Jean Grey psychically and left the committee in the blackbird to debrief in the X-Mansion. The whole things is a ruse to bring Magneto out of hiding from the Savage Land.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 21, 2019, 12:29:45 pm
Possible explanations:

- Cooper is a closet Nazi who carries around the manifesto in his front chest pocket close to his heart at all times.

- Cooper is at a committee hearing on online hate and has key evidence prepared in front of him for reference.

- Cooper has psychic powers to know what Suri was going to say in advance so Cooper prepared his response and paperwork in advance and "set him up".  Cooper then reported back to Professor X and Jean Grey psychically and left the committee in the blackbird to debrief in the X-Mansion. The whole things is a ruse to bring Magneto out of hiding from the Savage Land.

ceptin' the alt-right flavoured Cooper wigged out at the mere reference to "conservative commentators" being a part of the terrorists content review history (which was factual)... and being the "wunderkind" Cooper is, he thought reading from the manifesto was some kind of counter/argument to the factual statement made by the witness.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on June 21, 2019, 12:34:32 pm
The censors and moral bullies will come after us for stupid reasons too next.

Possible explanations:

- Cooper is a closet Nazi who carries around the manifesto in his front chest pocket close to his heart at all times.

- Cooper is at a committee hearing on online hate and has key evidence prepared in front of him for reference.

- Cooper has psychic powers to know what Suri was going to say in advance so Cooper prepared his response and paperwork in advance and "set him up".  Cooper then reported back to Professor X and Jean Grey psychically and left the committee in the blackbird to debrief in the X-Mansion. The whole things is a ruse to bring Magneto out of hiding from the Savage Land.

None of those explanations are valid. Luckily the whole charade got shut down due to the inappropriateness of his comments.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 21, 2019, 12:35:34 pm
ceptin' the alt-right flavoured Cooper wigged out at the mere reference to "conservative commentators" being a part of the terrorists content review history (which was factual)... and being the "wunderkind" Cooper is, he thought reading from the manifesto was some kind of counter/argument to the factual statement made by the witness.

Professor X is smarter than either of us or Cooper, who are we to question?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 22, 2019, 06:47:34 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkkshYRFFY0
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on June 23, 2019, 10:42:40 am
ceptin' the alt-right flavoured Cooper wigged out at the mere reference to "conservative commentators" being a part of the terrorists content review history (which was factual)... and being the "wunderkind" Cooper is, he thought reading from the manifesto was some kind of counter/argument to the factual statement made by the witness.

Why on earth would Cooper think that a quote from a mass xenophobic murderer's rantings was 'proof' of anything?
Cooper: 'It's not the conservatives, It's the communists ... because a raving murderous lunatic said so!'

Ridiculous.
Xenophobe or not, and clearly Cooper is, that's the DUMBEST justification I have ever heard.
Cooper obviously doesn't have the intelligence to be in government. He needs to retire to the country and tend his goats.
I hope his Party or his constituents arrange that at election time.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 25, 2019, 12:59:36 am
(https://i.imgur.com/1QuhMpT.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 25, 2019, 01:35:05 am
(https://i.imgur.com/KAnHKcg.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on June 26, 2019, 08:21:21 am
If Conservatives are tied, they're winning the general by 2-3 points, imho. It's not enough to be tied. It's not enough to be ahead by 2-3 points. The liberals need at least a 4-5 point lead to be secure.

The biggest problem for the Liberals is this. The polls are a general distribution of votes--it's the national popular vote. That's not how elections are won. Elections are won based on 338 local votes and right now that's a huge problem for Trudeau.

Why? Because he's losing A LOT of seats in the Maritime Provinces, where they had a clean sweep last election. The first thing you're going to see on election night is New Brunswick falling to the Conservatives, after which the Liberals need to play catch up.

Where are they going to get those seats?

The best chance they have right now is Ontario (since Doug Ford is trash), but that means they're going to have to flip some NDP ridings, as well as Conservative. Meanwhile, NDP voters aren't fleeing to the Liberals; they're shifting to the Greens.

I just don't see where the seats are going to flip in favour of the Liberals here. New Brunswick is going to end up deciding this election and right now that's to Scheer's benefit.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on June 26, 2019, 08:27:04 am
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

Eric Grenier has had the CPC up a consistent 5 points since Lav-Scam.

He's the same guy who had the aggregation site that used to be used as the best indicator. Not one poll but a collaboration of all of them.

I've been hearing/seeing Liberal Attack ads on Scheer.

Basically fear-mongering that the CPC will make healthcare private. So I guess JT's re-election tactic will be to lie to the public.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on June 26, 2019, 09:25:44 am
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

Eric Grenier has had the CPC up a consistent 5 points since Lav-Scam.

He's the same guy who had the aggregation site that used to be used as the best indicator. Not one poll but a collaboration of all of them.

I've been hearing/seeing Liberal Attack ads on Scheer.

Basically fear-mongering that the CPC will make healthcare private. So I guess JT's re-election tactic will be to lie to the public.
Grenier's polling is probably the strongest, imho, because it tries to account for the fact that elections are a series of 338 wins and not a national popular vote. It's difficult to do because some parts of the country aren't well represented in the sample, so there's a lot of variation around the predictions for those areas. New Brunswick is one of those areas, but I live here and I can say with confidence the Liberals absolutely will not sweep here again. They're going to lose A LOT of ridings.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on June 26, 2019, 10:49:00 am
The polls don't mean a lot right now because of strategic voting, as seen in the last 2 federal elections.  In 2011 in the last month of the election voters jumped ship from the Liberals to the NDP and the NDP formed the opposition.  In 2015 in the last month voters jumped ship from NDP to the Liberals since they were seen as a the best bet to defeat Harper, and Trudeau came away with a surprising majority.

You add up the poling #'s for Liberals, NDP, and Greens and you have about 55% of the total vote, plus the Bloc has another 5%.  There's plenty of votes there to swing 5 or 10 points to the Liberals to beat Scheer if left-leaning voters dislike him enough.

What would be wild is a mass exodus to the Greens like the "orange crush" of 2011.  Funny is Trudeau's strong emphasis on the dangers of climate change and all these floods and forest fires i'm sure can only help the Greens.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 26, 2019, 11:54:28 am
If Conservatives are tied, they're winning the general by 2-3 points, imho.

the point of showing the Nanos 'tie' was to reinforce the slow climb back from the influence of the fake/trumped-up CPC/ConMedia fueled Wilson-Raybould "scandal". If I recall, you have offered comment pointing out Nanos as one of the most reputable/representative polls.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 26, 2019, 12:05:02 pm
Eric Grenier has had the CPC up a consistent 5 points since Lav-Scam.

He's the same guy who had the aggregation site that used to be used as the best indicator. Not one poll but a collaboration of all of them.

I've been hearing/seeing Liberal Attack ads on Scheer.

Basically fear-mongering that the CPC will make healthcare private. So I guess JT's re-election tactic will be to lie to the public.

problem with poll-tracker is it includes the garbage results from the likes of Angus-Reid & Leger... closed-shop results that, again, are not a random reflection of the public (albeit Grenier does give them a lesser weighting factor). The latest Forum poll (as it is... just landlines called) is another reflection on the diminishing impact of the "LavScam" you mentioned... back in the throes of when "Jody" reigned supreme (aided & abetted by a compliant media), Forum regularly had poll results like CPC 42/Lib 29... their latest results now show a 4-5 point difference.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on June 26, 2019, 12:33:39 pm
problem with poll-tracker is it includes the garbage results from the likes of Angus-Reid & Leger... closed-shop results that, again, are not a random reflection of the public (albeit Grenier does give them a lesser weighting factor). The latest Forum poll (as it is... just landlines called) is another reflection on the diminishing impact of the "LavScam" you mentioned... back in the throes of when "Jody" reigned supreme (aided & abetted by a compliant media), Forum regularly had poll results like CPC 42/Lib 29... their latest results now show a 4-5 point difference.

Sure, but that could also be because of lower interests because it's almost July. It's hard to be in perpetual outrage about anything for 9 months. Doesn't mean the public isn't going to be reminded about what happened come Labour Day.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 26, 2019, 12:51:38 pm
Sure, but that could also be because of lower interests because it's almost July. It's hard to be in perpetual outrage about anything for 9 months. Doesn't mean the public isn't going to be reminded about what happened come Labour Day.

no worries! The CPC/lil' Hamish war room is on it - resurrecting past glories; even got the band back together again... can't find it right now... does the nice IndianMan once again finish with "nice hair"?  ;D

but ya, there will be little "high road" taken by any party
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 26, 2019, 01:40:04 pm
So I guess JT's re-election tactic will be to lie to the public.

Adopting CPC practices - how quaint.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on June 26, 2019, 01:43:03 pm
The polls don't mean a lot right now because of strategic voting, as seen in the last 2 federal elections.
...
Funny is Trudeau's strong emphasis on the dangers of climate change and all these floods and forest fires i'm sure can only help the Greens.

His emphasis on environmental concerns did drive a lot of strategic voting in 2015 when Green votes went to the Liberals.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on June 28, 2019, 12:03:20 am
(https://ipolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/GMAC3681.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 05, 2019, 11:25:28 am
Michael Coren (https://www.cbc.ca/radio/tapestry/a-heart-transformed-1.3307674/michael-coren-s-change-of-heart-from-moral-conservative-to-social-liberal-1.3308474) - June 30, 2019

Calling out Andrew Scheer's religious extremism (https://nowtoronto.com/news/andrew-scheer-pride-religion/) --- With an election on the way it needs to be asked whether the man who wants to be prime minister really does believe that LGBTQ people are disordered and immoral

Quote
Scheer will never state his genuine reasons for boycotting what has become a most important symbol of inclusion in contemporary Canada {pride parades}, because he doesn't want to be labelled a religious extremist.

But the reality is that Scheer's conservative Roman Catholic views inform most of his ideas on issues of life and sexuality.
.
.
The issue is one of interpretation, but Scheer is on the orthodox right of his church. This is why he voted against equal marriage when Catholic prime minister Paul Martin led the campaign to introduce it in 2005.

The same applies to Scheer’s approach to abortion and to assisted dying, both considered anathema by the church.

Indeed, when the anti-choice organization RightNow heard of Scheer’s surprise victory in the Conservative leadership race, they celebrated with a thank you in their newsletter to all the volunteers "who worked tirelessly selling memberships."

They knew the man, knew his father (the Catholic deacon), knew that he voted against Bill C-16, which added "gender expression or identity" as a protection in the Canadian Human Rights Act – and knew that in Saskatchewan where he is MP for Regina-Qu’Appelle, opposition to abortion and LGBTQ rights is acceptable.

So Scheer obfuscates and pretends.
.
.
With an election on the way, Scheer has tried to paint himself as more of a moderate. It remains to be seen whether journalists will ask whether the man who wants to be prime minister really does believe that LGBTQ people are disordered and immoral, and whether he does think that a woman’s right to choose is akin to murder.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 05, 2019, 11:55:29 am
(https://i.imgur.com/f5jm13C.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on July 05, 2019, 12:01:43 pm
Michael Coren (https://www.cbc.ca/radio/tapestry/a-heart-transformed-1.3307674/michael-coren-s-change-of-heart-from-moral-conservative-to-social-liberal-1.3308474) - June 30, 2019

Calling out Andrew Scheer's religious extremism (https://nowtoronto.com/news/andrew-scheer-pride-religion/) --- With an election on the way it needs to be asked whether the man who wants to be prime minister really does believe that LGBTQ people are disordered and immoral

We'll be heading down the road of abortion rights debate once again regardless of Scheer's most recent comments saying he won't open it. As soon as he won the leadership of the PC party he immediately tried to hide comments saying the exact opposite. He will simply pass the buck and it will come up as a motion from an MP or a bill from a backbencher and the game will be on.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 05, 2019, 12:42:31 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/f5jm13C.png)

Selective polling #'s like Trump I see.

CBC aggregated poll tracker of all polls updated July 3 shows CPC up by 4%:  https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on July 05, 2019, 01:25:55 pm
We'll be heading down the road of abortion rights debate once again regardless of Scheer's most recent comments saying he won't open it. As soon as he won the leadership of the PC party he immediately tried to hide comments saying the exact opposite. He will simply pass the buck and it will come up as a motion from an MP or a bill from a backbencher and the game will be on.

What comments did he try and hide?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 05, 2019, 01:28:51 pm
We'll be heading down the road of abortion rights debate once again regardless of Scheer's most recent comments saying he won't open it. As soon as he won the leadership of the PC party he immediately tried to hide comments saying the exact opposite. He will simply pass the buck and it will come up as a motion from an MP or a bill from a backbencher and the game will be on.

I mean it could happen.  I doubt it though.  The CPC would be voted out at the very next election and the laws reversed.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on July 05, 2019, 01:38:39 pm
What comments did he try and hide?

The ones were he said he fully supported the concept that CPC members should be allowed to re open the debate on abortion. It helped him to win the party leadership but he seemed to know as well it wouldn't be a very acceptable plank in his platform the the PM race.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on July 05, 2019, 02:50:29 pm
The ones were he said he fully supported the concept that CPC members should be allowed to re open the debate on abortion. It helped him to win the party leadership but he seemed to know as well it wouldn't be a very acceptable plank in his platform the the PM race.

Is there a cite?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on July 05, 2019, 03:02:06 pm
Is there a cite?

 When he sought the leadership of the Conservative Party, Andrew Scheer courted anti-abortion supporters by noting his history of voting in favour of anti-abortion legislation and promising he would allow free votes on the issue by MPs in Parliament.

In a 2017 “Statement on Life Issues” published by his leadership campaign, Scheer said, “I have always voted in favour of pro-life legislation."

He also said wanted Parliament to reconsider a bill making it a criminal offence to harm a fetus whose mother is assaulted or killed.

 “I believe 100% that Members of Parliament have the right to bring forward and debate any legislation of importance to them….Moreover, I have committed that all votes on matters of conscience be free votes.”



The Conservative leader has repeatedly said, if elected, his government would not enact an abortion law. But he has faced criticism from the governing Liberals for not saying whether he would let his MPs bring motions or private members bills that restrict abortion rights.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/scheer-not-backing-down-from-anti-abortion-past-but-says-he-won-t-reopen-abortion-debate-1.4433411
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on July 05, 2019, 03:18:37 pm
When he sought the leadership of the Conservative Party, Andrew Scheer courted anti-abortion supporters by noting his history of voting in favour of anti-abortion legislation and promising he would allow free votes on the issue by MPs in Parliament.

In a 2017 “Statement on Life Issues” published by his leadership campaign, Scheer said, “I have always voted in favour of pro-life legislation."

He also said wanted Parliament to reconsider a bill making it a criminal offence to harm a fetus whose mother is assaulted or killed.

 “I believe 100% that Members of Parliament have the right to bring forward and debate any legislation of importance to them….Moreover, I have committed that all votes on matters of conscience be free votes.”



The Conservative leader has repeatedly said, if elected, his government would not enact an abortion law. But he has faced criticism from the governing Liberals for not saying whether he would let his MPs bring motions or private members bills that restrict abortion rights.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/scheer-not-backing-down-from-anti-abortion-past-but-says-he-won-t-reopen-abortion-debate-1.4433411

Sounds pretty wishy-washy...

But, if in government,  I hope he does, or his backbenchers do, because that bunch will go the way of the dodo bird if they tried.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on July 05, 2019, 03:28:53 pm
Sounds pretty wishy-washy...

But, if in government,  I hope he does, or his backbenchers do, because that bunch will go the way of the dodo bird if they tried.

But why "hope" to waste all that time/money going through that process?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on July 05, 2019, 03:37:25 pm
But why "hope" to waste all that time/money going through that process?

Because it would be the end of Scheer's political career, as well as prevent the CPC from governing for many years...   which would be a small price to pay.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on July 05, 2019, 03:52:58 pm
Because it would be the end of Scheer's political career, as well as prevent the CPC from governing for many years...   which would be a small price to pay.

The much smaller price would be to simply let that sleeping dog lie.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on July 08, 2019, 10:59:54 am
Again, I think it's pretty pathetic that JT and the Liberals will try to win re-election by fear-mongering over Abortion rights.

Perhaps he could run on the promises he's kept.  :D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 08, 2019, 11:52:35 am
Perhaps he could run on the promises he's kept.  :D

which JT promises (not kept) give you real concern, real pause, real consternation... and are there any of those that weakSauce Scheer has indicated he will work to remedy, work to keep? Equally, what (separate) Scheer election promises have caught your partisan eye?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 08, 2019, 12:38:04 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/f5jm13C.png)
Selective polling #'s like Trump I see.

CBC aggregated poll tracker of all polls updated July 3 shows CPC up by 4%:

no - Nanos polling is reputable/respected... if nothing else it shows a continued shift away from the days of the Scheer trumped-up, ConMedia fueled, fake St. Jody "scandal". Poll tracker seems to have 'jumped the shark' with its inclusion of the most questionable closed-shop polls (ala Angus Reid, Leger).

in any case, another recent poll from Abacus that continues the same theme:
(https://abacusdata.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Slide2-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on July 08, 2019, 05:16:17 pm
Michael Coren (https://www.cbc.ca/radio/tapestry/a-heart-transformed-1.3307674/michael-coren-s-change-of-heart-from-moral-conservative-to-social-liberal-1.3308474) - June 30, 2019

Calling out Andrew Scheer's religious extremism (https://nowtoronto.com/news/andrew-scheer-pride-religion/) --- With an election on the way it needs to be asked whether the man who wants to be prime minister really does believe that LGBTQ people are disordered and immoral

Love the horns. Lol

(https://nowtoronto.com/downloads/101156/download/Andrew%20Scheer%20Web.png?cb=914714527b1f34ca597a43472eb24357&w=1200&h=)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 08, 2019, 10:33:13 pm
no - Nanos polling is reputable/respected... if nothing else it shows a continued shift away from the days of the Scheer trumped-up, ConMedia fueled, fake St. Jody "scandal". Poll tracker seems to have 'jumped the shark' with its inclusion of the most questionable closed-shop polls (ala Angus Reid, Leger).

How is nanos so "reputable/respected" if it has the smallest sample size and highest margin of error of all the pollsters on the CBC poll tracker? 

Nanos has a sample size of only 1000, while Angus Reid has a huge sample size of 4600+ with a margin of error half that of Nanos.

More accurate than all the polls is a weighted average of all the polls. This provides by far the biggest sample size.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 09, 2019, 12:48:12 am
How is nanos so "reputable/respected" if it has the smallest sample size and highest margin of error of all the pollsters on the CBC poll tracker? 

Nanos has a sample size of only 1000, while Angus Reid has a huge sample size of 4600+ with a margin of error half that of Nanos.

More accurate than all the polls is a weighted average of all the polls. This provides by far the biggest sample size.

Nanos polling is based on a four-week rolling sample derived from 1,000 phone interviews --- each week, a new 250 interviews are added, while the oldest week is dropped. As I'm aware, Nanos was the first polling methodology to include cell phone numbers and it never relies upon voluntary participation... like the Angus Reid (and Leger) methodology you're touting does - again, these "closed shop" type polling results are not surveys of the random public. By the by: neither Angus Reid or Leger provide their own margin of error figures - their methodologies don't support the concept... if you doubt me, I suggest you actually invest a few cycles and look into the respective methodologies behind an assortment of polls - the MOE figure you're seeing for Angus Reid in the CBC poll tracker is one that the "aggregator" has chosen to assign to it. Of course, overt bias is also a part of an aggregate - like the historical CPC favouring bias shown by Forum results. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on July 09, 2019, 01:56:29 am
Nanos polling is based on a four-week rolling sample derived from 1,000 phone interviews --- each week, a new 250 interviews are added, while the oldest week is dropped. As I'm aware, Nanos was the first polling methodology to include cell phone numbers and it never relies upon voluntary participation... like the Angus Reid (and Leger) methodology you're touting does - again, these "closed shop" type polling results are not surveys of the random public.

How so?
 "Nanos ... never relies upon voluntary participation..."

Involuntary respondents? Lol
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 09, 2019, 01:57:47 am
ridin' the range to stop the "secret fuel tax" (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tasker-andrew-scheer-clean-fuel-standard-1.5204091)

(https://i.cbc.ca/1.5204172.1562610826!/cpImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/calgary-stampede-scheer-20190706.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 09, 2019, 02:18:03 am
How so?
 "Nanos ... never relies upon voluntary participation..."

Involuntary respondents? Lol

hey now! Since this is a thread I created... does anyone know if existing threads are 'grandfathered' and won't be included in the new moderation policy that would allow me to smite this member Granny comment?  ;D

ok, ok, the waldo accepts missing context... although that context has been included in many prior posts. Again, Angus Reid/Leger rely upon creating a 'closed-shop' of voluntary participants - those who are willing to join the club based upon offered "incentives/rewards"... certainly not representative of random involuntary public sampling... of willing participants within that involuntary sampling!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/Bk03pkq.png) --- (https://i.imgur.com/SnT8WGv.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 09, 2019, 07:06:47 am
Looks like 338 has the Liberals up again.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on July 09, 2019, 01:14:01 pm
How so?
 "Nanos ... never relies upon voluntary participation..."

Involuntary respondents? Lol

I assume the difference is between subscription and random sampling. I know some polling organizations have people sign up to participate on a regular basis and others just call totally random people out of the blue. The subscription based organizations don't always use the same sample set every poll, but pull people from a larger pool. I can't speak to the individual organizations and their methodologies.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 09, 2019, 02:12:29 pm
is the 3-Amigos 'juggernaut' failing? Say it ain't so!

(https://i.imgur.com/dXc2krL.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 09, 2019, 09:23:55 pm
Looks like 338 has the Liberals up again.

338 projects CPC at 149 seats, Liberals at 143 seats.

But these #'s are garbage because the methodology doesn't support Waldo's Liberal bias.  We need to stick with Nanos because they're the only pollster that has come back with the Liberals polling higher than the CPC.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 10, 2019, 12:37:23 am
We need to stick with Nanos because they're the only pollster that has come back with the Liberals polling higher than the CPC.

no - not the only => the latest Mainstreet Research poll for iPolitics
(https://i.imgur.com/3X2GjKH.png)

Quote
In Canada’s most populous and thus vote-rich province, the Liberals lead with 41.6 per cent of support among leaning and decided voters, compared to 32 per cent for the Tories, 11.5 per cent for the NDP, 9.1 per cent for the Greens and 4.3 per cent for the PPC.

In neighbouring Quebec, the Liberals top all parties with 36.7 per cent of support, while the Tories have supplanted the NDP and Bloc in the runner-up spot at 22 per cent. The aforementioned Bloc and NDP are polling at 19.1 and 8.6 per cent, respectively. The Greens are a close fifth with 8.2 per cent of support.

if you don't care for Nanos polling, perhaps critique it... rather than taking your frustrations out on the waldo! Or, just spitballin' here - perhaps offer your insight into why the Ford-Scheer-Kenney triumvirate seems to have "stalled out" just a tad - yes?

hey now, word on the street has it that in recent Alberta days, Scheer went out of his way to ensure he wasn't photographed with DOFO!  ;D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on July 10, 2019, 06:08:45 am
the point of showing the Nanos 'tie' was to reinforce the slow climb back from the influence of the fake/trumped-up CPC/ConMedia fueled Wilson-Raybould "scandal". If I recall, you have offered comment pointing out Nanos as one of the most reputable/representative polls.
He is, but that doesn’t discount what I’m saying. Where are the Liberals going to gain seats to make up for the Maritime losses? They can win the popular vote and still not form government because they lose the composition of the House.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 10, 2019, 07:24:02 am
They will make them up in Ontario and Quebec, who have seen the empty shell that is populism.

There are Red Tory's out there waiting for Scheer and Dofo to fuck off into their political recycling bins.  I can't wait.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 10, 2019, 11:00:12 am
We have a situation where much of the country despises Trudeau but thinks Scheer is no better.  Singh was DOA and the greens can't win.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 10, 2019, 11:00:38 am
Let's hope for a minority gov
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 10, 2019, 11:08:10 am
They will make them up in Ontario and Quebec, who have seen the empty shell that is populism.

Quebec is already polling 47 seats for Liberal, 17 for CPC.  There's not much more room to squeeze for the Liberals in QC.

Ontario is around 50 seats each for Liberal and CPC.  The election is probably won/lost in Ontario this time.

http://338canada.com/

Scheer has not been running a campaign like Ford did, Scheer has not been running like a hardcore populist like Ford or Trump. That's Bernier territory.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 10, 2019, 11:12:46 am
Trudeau still more unpopular than Trump.  Scheer not any better.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/06/11/canadian-voters-give-low-marks-to-federal-party-leaders-poll-finds.html

Quote
Canadians are broadly dissatisfied with their options for prime minister in the lead up to October’s federal election, according to a new poll by Forum Research shared with the Toronto Star.

The leaders of the three major political parties have a net disapproval rating, with just 34 per cent of respondents saying they approve of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s performance. A total of 56 per cent of respondents say they disapprove of the prime minister’s job performance.

Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer had similar numbers, with 33 per cent saying they approve of his work as opposition leader, while 45 per cent disapproved. Jagmeet Singh, the leader of the New Democrats, had just 23 per cent saying they approve of his performance while 40 per cent disapproved.

Only Elizabeth May, the Green party leader, had a positive net approval rating — with 44 per approving her performance and 22 per cent disapproving.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: eyeball on July 10, 2019, 01:32:20 pm
Let's hope for a minority gov
I guess it'll back to strategic voting or not at all for many voters.  The real losers will be focused on hair vs dimples.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 10, 2019, 08:27:15 pm
OMG.  Conversion therapy is now an issue.  Why ?  No one is sure but Scheer wants to wait and see.

I hate politics today.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 10, 2019, 08:50:44 pm
OMG.  Conversion therapy is now an issue.  Why ?  No one is sure but Scheer wants to wait and see.

Conversion therapy is ridiculous, but I would think if consenting adults want to do it i don't see why it's any of the government's business.  The real concern is when children/teens are forced or convinced to do it.

I find it odd that the government thinks it's ok to convert a biological woman into a man through medical procedures but sexual orientation is off limits.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 10, 2019, 11:16:15 pm
I think that it is the teen version.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 11, 2019, 07:24:49 am
The real losers will be focused on hair vs dimples.

dimples! Yes, it's actually quite heeelarious to read the wigged-out responses of some Scheer supporters whenever some wag drops a fond reference to Scheer's dimples... nice hair dimples!

(https://i.imgur.com/Q9ZUv9l.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 11, 2019, 07:46:37 am
What a shitty election.
Even as shitty as all of this is, Scheer's mishandling tells me he's nowhere near ready to be PM.

Trudeau, with all his flaws, has had to hold the fort against Trump, China and the trolls and has done so.

I'm going to vote for him if my riding is at all close.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Bubbermiley on July 11, 2019, 07:47:31 am
How come Conservative Party leaders tend to resemble ventriloquist dummies?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on July 11, 2019, 08:32:44 am
They will make them up in Ontario and Quebec, who have seen the empty shell that is populism.

There are Red Tory's out there waiting for Scheer and Dofo to fuck off into their political recycling bins.  I can't wait.
I just don’t see it in Quebec. Seats around Quebec City have flipped Tory as well. Maybe they gain some seats around Toronto, but enough to win? I’m skeptical for now.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 11, 2019, 08:44:17 am
Scheer isn't offering much that's compelling and the economy is going well.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 11, 2019, 11:02:12 am
Scheer isn't offering much that's compelling and the economy is going well.

the latest desperation has Scheer's lil' Rebel commander Hamish (aided and abetted by one Stephen Harper) resurrecting the false narrative that the Liberal government is supporting Sikh independence in India... and... Scheer is quite literally accusing Canada’s former ambassador to China, John McCallum... now private citizen John McCallum, of openly advocating for the Chinese to interfere/aid the Liberal government in the coming fall election! So desperate is weakSauce Scheer!
(https://i.imgur.com/RKNAA4Y.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 11, 2019, 11:09:03 am
Andrew Scheer will ‘wait and see’ before taking stance on Liberal plan for conversion therapy ban (https://globalnews.ca/news/5479933/conversion-therapy-ban-2/)

clearly Scheer was caught off-guard... hadn't yet received his talking points from Harper/war-room!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 11, 2019, 12:13:21 pm
Scheer isn't offering much that's compelling and the economy is going well.

The TSX doesn't reflect this.

I guess you support Donald Trump\s re-election?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 11, 2019, 12:30:13 pm
The TSX doesn't reflect this.

I guess you support Donald Trump\s re-election?

inquiring minds: how does being against weakSauce Scheer... support the OrangeOne's re-election?

by the by: Trump's perpetual promotion of the Dow Jones as a leading economic indicator keeps burning him whenever it tanks.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 11, 2019, 01:23:13 pm
The TSX doesn't reflect this.

I guess you support Donald Trump\s re-election?

Of course not.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 11, 2019, 02:45:09 pm
Of course not.

But what about his wonderful economy? ala Trudeau?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on July 11, 2019, 02:55:00 pm
Scheer's lack of a stance on something as abhorrent as the pseudo-science religious stupidity that is "conversion therapy" is cowardice, or he actually believes that shit.   It's pretty gross.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 11, 2019, 03:03:53 pm
Scheer's lack of a stance on something as abhorrent as the pseudo-science religious stupidity that is "conversion therapy" is cowardice, or he actually believes that shit.   It's pretty gross.

A mischaracterization of his position:

Quote
Conservative leader Andrew Scheer told Global News on Wednesday that while his party opposes forced conversion therapy, he is waiting for further details before taking a stance on efforts to impose a federal ban on the discredited practice.

"We will always, of course, stand up for the rights of LGBTQ individuals and protect their rights and, of course, we’re opposed to any type of practice that would forcibly attempt to change someone’s sexual orientation against their will or things like that. So we will wait and see exactly what is being contemplated."

https://globalnews.ca/news/5479933/conversion-therapy-ban-2/

Why support or not support a policy that hasn't been laid out yet?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 11, 2019, 03:29:02 pm
But what about his wonderful economy? ala Trudeau?
Sorry for the confusion.  Those are reasons Trudeau may win, not my personal reasons to vote for him.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 11, 2019, 04:16:12 pm
Scheer's lack of a stance on something as abhorrent as the pseudo-science religious stupidity that is "conversion therapy" is cowardice, or he actually believes that shit.   It's pretty gross.

wow - apparently it took staunch Conservative Adler's call-out to get the following clarification from Scheer:

(https://i.imgur.com/5NogpkP.png)

Quote from: Andrew Scheer, leader of the CPC
We will always, of course, stand up for the rights of LGBTQ individuals and protect their rights and we’re opposed to any type of practice that would forcibly attempt to change someone’s sexual orientation against their will or things like that.

Sheer's word salad, his dance, his weasel wording... now has him being further called out for being accepting to those types of so-called conversion therapy that are entered into "voluntarily"!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 11, 2019, 05:12:26 pm
Can someone please explain again the math behind going after those who, say, support conversion therapy vs middle of the road opinions ?

Rob Ford vs John Tory
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on July 11, 2019, 05:16:02 pm
Can someone please explain again the math behind going after those who, say, support conversion therapy vs middle of the road opinions ?

Rob Ford vs John Tory

I think I know who will try.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 11, 2019, 05:22:39 pm
I feel like we have found a certain baseline for a peaceful and productive society, and instead of the parties competing with their ideas, they bait each other and flirt with extreme elements.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on July 11, 2019, 06:33:27 pm
So Scheer thinks people can voluntarily change their sexual preference with the help of kooky religious pseudo-science quackery? 

This is quite a revelation ...  someone needs to let the actual mental health/medical community that the religious kooks had it right all along!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on July 11, 2019, 07:20:11 pm
wow - apparently it took staunch Conservative Adler's call-out to get the following clarification from Scheer:

(https://i.imgur.com/5NogpkP.png)

Sheer's word salad, his dance, his weasel wording... now has him being further called out for being accepting to those types of so-called conversion therapy that are entered into "voluntarily"!

This is what a voluntary conversion therapy graduate looks like: "Helmet guy", Christopher Vanderweide (red tshirt), violent Christian homophobe attacking Pride folk at Pride Fest, Hamilton. Now in jail, assault w weapon x2

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/chris-vanderweide-pride-1.5192540

Maybe I'll send the video to Andrew Scheer.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 11, 2019, 09:56:37 pm
Sheer's word salad, his dance, his weasel wording... now has him being further called out for being accepting to those types of so-called conversion therapy that are entered into "voluntarily"!

If 2 people want to do something, and the client has informed consent and they know what they're getting into, what the heck is the state's business to prevent them?  I don't care at all if some gay dude wants to try to turn un-gay (even if it almost certainly won't work) and some other person thinks they can help.  WHO CARES???  Are we going to ban exorcisms too?

They will probably get a Charter challenge out legislation if it bans all such therapy from all sorts of Christian, Jewish, Muslim groups etc.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 11, 2019, 09:57:20 pm
So Scheer thinks people can voluntarily change their sexual preference with the help of kooky religious pseudo-science quackery?

Please quote where Scheer said this.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: kimmy on July 11, 2019, 10:06:23 pm
wow - apparently it took staunch Conservative Adler's call-out to get the following clarification from Scheer:

(https://i.imgur.com/5NogpkP.png)

Sheer's word salad, his dance, his weasel wording... now has him being further called out for being accepting to those types of so-called conversion therapy that are entered into "voluntarily"!

Charles Adler is also the one who roasted Jason Kenney for being incapable of addressing the gay-hating members of the Alberta UCP.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5129721/alberta-election-charles-adler-jason-kenney-transcript/

It's easy to dismiss this kind of criticism if it comes from people you view as opponents or activists, but when somebody who is on your own side points out how bad this looks it makes you take it more seriously.

 -k
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 11, 2019, 10:13:52 pm
If 2 people want to do something, and the client has informed consent and they know what they're getting into, what the heck is the state's business to prevent them?
Two answers:
1) it's dangerous quackery, and is akin to allowing medical claims that are false.  Also demeans a group as being somehow worthy of identification as a disease.
2) it doesn't matter but Trudeau can get Scheer to figuratively shit his pants once more on the public stage.  This legislation may well never be introduced let alone pass.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 11, 2019, 10:56:07 pm
1) it's dangerous quackery, and is akin to allowing medical claims that are false.

So is homeopathy, and all sorts of other nonsense, but we don't ban that.  I'm not saying i'm for these treatments, very far from it, but should the state be involved in this?

If they banned them I wouldn't really care, i'm sure they give people that don't want to be gay "false hope".  But i really don't think Scheer coming out against involuntary conversion and wanting to see the full policy is anything bad.  But people like in this thread will just run with it and twist it into Scheer being a homophobe, so will the media, and it just makes Scheer look bad.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on July 11, 2019, 11:07:57 pm
So is homeopathy, and all sorts of other nonsense, but we don't ban that.  I'm not saying i'm for these treatments, very far from it, but should the state be involved in this?

If they banned them I wouldn't really care, i'm sure they give people that don't want to be gay "false hope".  But i really don't think Scheer coming out against involuntary conversion and wanting to see the full policy is anything bad.  But people like in this thread will just run with it and twist it into Scheer being a homophobe, so will the media, and it just makes Scheer look bad.

Buddying up with "United We Roll" and Faith Goldy are ways he just made himself look bad.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 12, 2019, 06:44:22 am
1. So is homeopathy, and all sorts of other nonsense, but we don't ban that.  I'm not saying i'm for these treatments, very far from it, but should the state be involved in this?

2. If they banned them I wouldn't really care, i'm sure they give people that don't want to be gay "false hope".  But i really don't think Scheer coming out against involuntary conversion and wanting to see the full policy is anything bad.  But people like in this thread will just run with it and twist it into Scheer being a homophobe, so will the media, and it just makes Scheer look bad.
1. Homeopathy isn't dangerous though.
2. You didn't respond to my number two.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 12, 2019, 11:16:27 am
Homeopathy isn't dangerous though.

It's far more dangerous than conversion therapy when people seek it out instead of regular medical treatment.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on July 12, 2019, 11:41:48 am
We need conversion therapy to turn Conservatives into normal functioning people.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 12, 2019, 12:09:21 pm
It's far more dangerous than conversion therapy when people seek it out instead of regular medical treatment.

Sure, but it's not dangerous on its own - only when paired with neglect.

Number two ?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 12, 2019, 02:27:28 pm
Number two ?

(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/t/cartoon-poop-flies-vector-illustration-smelly-31181111.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 12, 2019, 05:05:36 pm
 :o
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on July 12, 2019, 09:09:08 pm
If 2 people want to do something, and the client has informed consent and they know what they're getting into, what the heck is the state's business to prevent them?  I don't care at all if some gay dude wants to try to turn un-gay (even if it almost certainly won't work) and some other person thinks they can help.  WHO CARES???  Are we going to ban exorcisms too?

They will probably get a Charter challenge out legislation if it bans all such therapy from all sorts of Christian, Jewish, Muslim groups etc.

See a voluntary 'conversion-therapy' graduate in action:


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/chris-vanderweide-pride-1.5192540

Looks like conversion therapy created a violent homophobe. Still think it's a good idea?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 12, 2019, 09:53:25 pm
See a voluntary 'conversion-therapy' graduate in action:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/chris-vanderweide-pride-1.5192540

Looks like conversion therapy created a violent homophobe. ill think it's a good idea?

1. There's no evidence in your article he's a 'conversion-therapy' graduate
2. There's no research linking 'conversion-therapy' graduates to violence.  That's like saying a few Muslims cause violence so we should ban Ramadan because it causes violence.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on July 13, 2019, 11:26:21 am
1. There's no evidence in your article he's a 'conversion-therapy' graduate
2. There's no research linking 'conversion-therapy' graduates to violence.  That's like saying a few Muslims cause violence so we should ban Ramadan because it causes violence.

Sorry, I wasn't clear about that: The evidence was on his FB page, now closed so I can't prove it.
He said his church and Jesus saved him from those 'tendencies'.

Strangely, he also said that his newborn daughter "changed his life forever" ... and 2 months later he's smashing peoples' faces in (because they're gay), and going to jail ... where he was immediately beat up, and will have to do his time is solitary/protective custody.
Bizarre, violent young man.
And the other Christian homophobes attacking Pride Fest bear the same violent hatred of gays.
I expected the violence to come from the leather-and-tattoos neoNazis, but they were not the violent ones that day.
It was the ones with the religious signs and loud rants at the "sinners".  Homophobia is a hatred by itself, maybe not always connected to racial or other hatreds.

There may presently be "no research" to say that conversion therapy produces violent bigots (I haven't looked thoroughly), but plenty of evidence of maladjustment (compared to non-converted LGBTQ people).
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181108130522.htm
 
There is some evidence that repressed homosexuality is present in homophobia and anti-gay bullying, especially for those from authoritarian homes.

Those participants who reported their heterosexuality despite having hidden same-sex desires were also the most likely to show hostility toward gay individuals, including self-reported anti-gay attitudes, endorsement of anti-gay policies and discrimination such as supporting harsher punishments for homosexuals.

The research may help to explain the underpinnings of anti-gay bullying and hate crimes, the researchers note. People in denial about their own sexual orientation, perhaps a denial fostered by authoritarian and homophobic parents, may feel a threat from other gay and lesbian individuals. Lashing out may ultimately be an indicator of the person's own internal conflict with sexual orientation.


https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals/

I don't want to derail this Scheer thread with this topic. Though related, it would be better to continue this discussion here:
https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/manitoba-politics/hamilton-pride-police-shame/?message=50838

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 20, 2019, 12:58:40 am
weakSauce Scheer panders to dairy industry/lobby - so anti-science Andy!

Quote from: CPC leader Andrew Scheer
The {new version} Canada Food Guide seems to be ideologically driven by people who have a philosophical perspective and a bias against certain types of healthy food products.

I truly do believe that chocolate milk saved my son's life.
(https://i.imgur.com/VfHu7RY.jpg)

Health experts denounce Scheer’s comments on Canada’s Food Guide as ‘irresponsible’ and ‘disingenuous’ (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-health-experts-denounce-scheers-comments-on-canadas-food-guide-as/)

Andrew Scheer shouldn’t play politics with Canada’s Food Guide (https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2019/07/19/andrew-scheer-shouldnt-play-politics-with-canadas-food-guide.html)


and... Health Canada is proposing to require all foods that have high sodium, sugar and/or saturated fat content to include warning labels about those items on the customer-facing side of their packaging. So, of course to ensure Canadians aren't informed, Scheer also vowed never to force food manufacturers to have front-of-package labeling on their products, stating:

Quote from: CPC leader Andrew Scheer
I can make all those decisions myself. I don't need the government to come along and put a big red sticker on something just because somebody in an office thought that I shouldn't be eating that
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 20, 2019, 11:00:23 am
Almost everyone loves milk.  Scheer's a milk populist.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on July 20, 2019, 01:47:35 pm
Almost everyone loves milk.  Scheer's a milk populist.

He is drinking white milk, that makes him a racist.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on July 20, 2019, 01:52:32 pm
I hate white milk. Gives me heartburn. It's not good for grownups.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on July 20, 2019, 02:12:39 pm
I hate white milk. Gives me heartburn. It's not good for grownups.

It's good for most grown-ups, not good for some grown-ups.

Maybe Scheer should have pandered instead to the cookie vote.  Everyone loves cookies.  Except for diabetics.  Hmm so maybe throw his support behind milk and cookies, everyone likes at least one of those.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 20, 2019, 06:23:06 pm
guys, guys... have you become so conditioned to the CPC anti-science branding that something like Scheer's words/actions concerning the Canada Food Guide no longer warrants critique - say it ain't so!

obviously Scheer is forever beholden to the dairy industry/lobby that actually got him elected leader as he smote Bernier down in that... 13th round of voting! So, of course, weakSauce Andy delivers for them!

(https://i.imgur.com/Dp7W2Zm.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 20, 2019, 08:22:57 pm
I don't care about this issue and that makes me think others don't either.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 20, 2019, 09:20:11 pm
U don't care about this issue and that makes me think others don't either.

you talkin' to me? Cause if you are... why say such a stoopid thing? I brought the issue forward, have commented on it several times now... and provided links to 2 articles that include criticism of Scheer's mind-numbing comments, his anti-science play and his pandering. But hey, your drive-by slag is certainly contributing, hey!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 20, 2019, 11:51:12 pm
Quote from: Kate Comeau, a dietitian and spokesperson for Dietitians of Canada
{While the food guide got rid of dairy as a separate food group, and instead combined it with protein-rich foods, it still treats dairy similarly to the way it has before.} The reason that dietitians recognize dairy as an important food is because it’s an “easy source of calcium” for many Canadians, which is readily available and fairly inexpensive; however, Health Canada wanted to recognize that many people get the nutrients that are in milk from other, non-dairy sources.

This food guide... recognizes that there are other foods that we all eat differently based on our culture, our taste, our preferences and so for some people they get all of the calcium they need because they eat tofu every day, and they eat broccoli, and bok choy, and leafy greens vegetables and they eat almonds and so for them they don’t need calcium from another source.

hey MH, fwiw... as lame-azzed as your drive-by was, at least it's a step-up from squiggy's dumb-tagging!  ;D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on July 22, 2019, 06:50:24 am
you talkin' to me? Cause if you are... why say such a stoopid thing? I brought the issue forward, have commented on it several times now... and provided links to 2 articles that include criticism of Scheer's mind-numbing comments, his anti-science play and his pandering. But hey, your drive-by slag is certainly contributing, hey!

Nope.  Should be 'I don't care...'
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 22, 2019, 06:14:55 pm
weakSauce Andy/lil' Hamish don't like the return of Gerald Butts - not at all!  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/758UWiZ.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on July 25, 2019, 11:23:40 am
Quote from: CPC leader Andrew Scheer
There is absolutely no room in a peaceful and free country like Canada for intolerance, racism and extremism of any kind. And the Conservative Party of Canada will always make that absolutely clear.

I find the notion that one's race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation would make anyone in any way superior or inferior to anyone else absolutely repugnant. And if there's anyone who disagrees with that, there's the door. You are not welcome here.

wait, what? Per National Post sources: (https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/the-ontario-pcs-rejected-her-over-her-tweets-about-islam-but-ghada-melek-is-now-a-federal-conservative-candidate)

Quote
{Ghada Melek} running for the federal Conservatives in a Toronto-area riding was rejected as a candidate by the party’s own Ontario wing more than two years ago over social-media posts about Muslim extremism.

Melek, a Coptic Christian immigrant from Egypt, said the Twitter posts — which date from 2013 and 2014 — were an emotional response to mass protests against her native country’s then-president, Muslim Brotherhood-affiliated Mohammed Morsi.

“As a Coptic Christian, I know what my family and friends often endured under Morsi and the Brotherhood, and that passion may have got the best of me at times,” she said in a statement. “While these are almost entirely retweets from more than half a decade ago, I do understand how some of them may be offensive, and I do regret that as well as retweeting them. I will always stand with Muslim Canadians.”

Conservative leader Andrew Scheer’s press secretary could not be reached for comment.

(https://i.imgur.com/UF6JJnr.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 04, 2019, 06:47:15 pm
c'mon Andy - you made a bold statement - do the right thing weakSauce; do the right thing!

Quote from: CPC leader Andrew Scheer
There is absolutely no room in a peaceful and free country like Canada for intolerance, racism and extremism of any kind. And the Conservative Party of Canada will always make that absolutely clear.

I find the notion that one's race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation would make anyone in any way superior or inferior to anyone else absolutely repugnant. And if there's anyone who disagrees with that, there's the door. You are not welcome here.

wait, what? Per National Post sources: (https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/the-ontario-pcs-rejected-her-over-her-tweets-about-islam-but-ghada-melek-is-now-a-federal-conservative-candidate)

Quote
{Ghada Melek} running for the federal Conservatives in a Toronto-area riding was rejected as a candidate by the party’s own Ontario wing more than two years ago over social-media posts about Muslim extremism.

(https://i.imgur.com/UF6JJnr.jpg)


further info/detail in regards that internal Ontario Progressive Conservative report - now linking the Scheer/CPC candidate to a homophobic past: (https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/43kgxm/leaked-report-linked-conservative-candidate-to-homophobic-social-media-posts)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 04, 2019, 07:49:50 pm
She's homomobic
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 05, 2019, 10:45:18 am
CPC leader Andrew Scheer - will you defend federalism/national sovereignty if it means criticizing... calling out... your key posse member, Alberta Premier Jason Kenney? For weeks on end, to varying degrees, Kenney has stoked separatist sentiments by claiming the unfairness of equalization to Alberta. Lately Kenney has more pointedly tailored this more directly towards the election by targeting PM Trudeau. Somehow Kenney hypocritically overlooks the fact he was a key member of the Harper cabinet that framed the current equalization formula! Kenney's latest:

(https://i.imgur.com/r98lQ9L.png) --- the accompanying video! (https://twitter.com/i/videos/1157655214410702848)

c'mon weakSauce - do the right thing!
 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 06, 2019, 11:00:28 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/1QuhMpT.jpg)


CPC leader Andrew Scheer - in keeping with his homophobia! Federal leaders, except Scheer, march together at Vancouver Pride (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2019/08/05/federal-leaders-except-scheer-march-together-at-vancouver-pride.html)

(https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/canada/2019/08/05/federal-leaders-except-scheer-march-together-at-vancouver-pride/three_leaders_march.jpg)

Quote from: Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau
It’s so important that we all stand together in moments like this. We’re standing up for human rights, standing up for communities who are marginalized.

It’s just unfortunate that there are still some party leaders who want to be prime minister, who choose to stand with people who are intolerant instead of standing with the LGBT community
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 06, 2019, 11:22:36 pm
Maybe he was busy discussing things with Faith Goldy again.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on August 08, 2019, 08:24:49 am
Andrew Scheer's got some tiny ideas...

https://ipolitics.ca/2017/06/02/andrew-scheers-got-some-tiny-ideas-hed-like-to-talk-to-you-about/
It’s true the young Saskatchewan MP has other ideas, but they all sound as if they came from the mouth a 15-year-old Reform Party member participating in a model Parliament — somebody who has a frighteningly unsophisticated understanding of the world and of the economic issues facing our country.

Andrew Scheer's tiniest idea is that perhaps we'd all like to subsidize his children's private religious school tuition.

Hahahahahahahaha!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 14, 2019, 10:01:23 am
member Granny... here you go - perhaps you could drill-down and highlight some of the more "ironic" parts of the so-called Scheer climate plan - yes?

Conservative climate plan is cloaked in mystery, choked with irony --- Andrew Scheer's plan offers many more questions than answers (https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5240070)

Quote
It took Andrew Scheer over a year from the time he first promised a climate change plan to deliver one so cloaked in mystery and choked with irony that perhaps few would notice a subtle change.

Last April, he said without hesitation that, "of course," his plan would allow Canada to meet its Paris commitments — commitments first made by the Harper government. Now, he'll say only that his plan gives Canada the "best chance" to meet those targets.

I suppose he can claim his plan has a chance to meet the targets because he hasn't defined many of the measures he's going to take very clearly. With that much wiggle room, there exists a theoretical chance he could do something stringent enough to meet Paris. I guess.

Nothing that costs anyone anything

Scheer's plan tells you what he won't do: no carbon taxes, no clean fuel standards, and generally nothing that costs anyone anything. What the plan doesn't tell you is how he plans to square all of this with Canada's Paris targets and/or prepare Canada for success in a world acting on climate change.

Quote
Scheer's plan to whisper in the ear of energy producers next moves on to a commitment to "encourage fuel producers to do their part" in lowering their emissions intensity. How? Not with regulations like the Trudeau government's clean fuel standard, and definitely not with carbon pricing. So, how?

As you might guess, we're left to wonder.

Scheer's plan offers more questions than answers, questions to which provincial leaders and Canada's business community would be demanding answers, if they thought he was serious about implementing it.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on August 14, 2019, 12:28:00 pm
Scheer certainly has 'diverse' supporters! Lol
Wow! She's creepy.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156335965425009&id=30843680008
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 14, 2019, 12:32:51 pm
member Granny... here you go - perhaps you could drill-down and highlight some of the more "ironic" parts of the so-called Scheer climate plan - yes?

Conservative climate plan is cloaked in mystery, choked with irony --- Andrew Scheer's plan offers many more questions than answers (https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5240070)

So you think he's lying because you only believe targets can be reached by taxing people to death. For people to change their behaviours, there has to be alternatives. The focus should be there and not money grabs. Very populist, that seems to be all the rage lately.

But if he's lying just to get elected, it's good for the goose considering JT pledged to have Electoral Reform and to keep deficits under $10 billion. Were those, to copy from Kathleen Wynne, stretch goals?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 15, 2019, 10:31:00 am
member Granny... here you go - perhaps you could drill-down and highlight some of the more "ironic" parts of the so-called Scheer climate plan - yes?

Conservative climate plan is cloaked in mystery, choked with irony --- Andrew Scheer's plan offers many more questions than answers (https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5240070)
So you think he's lying because you only believe targets can be reached by taxing people to death. For people to change their behaviours, there has to be alternatives.

if it's details lacking 'by omission', then ya, I agree with you - Scheer is lying. Your key takeaway from the referenced critique should have been the lack of information/detail... the alternatives you're speaking to. Perhaps you could fill in for Scheer/CPC and identify the alternatives you're presuming upon - yes?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 15, 2019, 10:39:07 am
if it's details lacking 'by omission', then ya, I agree with you - Scheer is lying. Your key takeaway from the referenced critique should have been the lack of information/detail... the alternatives you're speaking to. Perhaps you could fill in for Scheer/CPC and identify the alternatives you're presuming upon - yes?

The big one would be bringing down the price of EV vehicles. Giving $14,000 rebates for $100,000 cars.

The only way for this to work is for it to be Private Sector driven. For example, meat alternatives, high efficiency appliances, and more fuel efficient cars.

In Ontario, the Carbon Tax has already been consumed by a natural reduction in the price of gas. It's just a tax grab.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 15, 2019, 03:40:47 pm
Waldo, as a concerned citizen, I've been well informed and enlightened by the ads and website made by the organization you work for.  I'm looking forward to more of your work so that more members of the voting public can be educated on the dangers of Weaksauce Andy.  Kudos!

https://www.scheerweakness.ca/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkkshYRFFY0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTxyWiWrIps
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 15, 2019, 11:53:27 pm
weakSauce Andy... Stephen Harper with a smile dimples!

Stephen Harper! Ah, good times: Harper, Serial Abuser of Power: The Evidence Compiled --- updated list of 70 Harper government assaults on democracy and the law (https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/08/10/Harper-Abuses-of-Power-Final/)

(https://i.imgur.com/eB6ypEL.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: kimmy on August 16, 2019, 12:15:46 am
In wake of the ethics commissioner's damning report, we get 3 straight months of "Stephen Harper!"  "secret agenda!"  "Faith Goldy!" "abortions! Conversion therapy!"  Liberal MP Adam Vaughn tweeting pictures from Texas internment camps and suggesting they're Doug Ford's fault the other day is just the start.

Because Justin "Above The Law" Trudeau can't campaign on being "the sunny ways guy" any more, the best he can hope for is convincing people that the other guy is worse.

I hope they dust off this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMsqEph7a8I

 -k
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 16, 2019, 12:39:56 am
I hope they dust off this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMsqEph7a8I

typical 'know-it-all' (in your own mind) kimmy!  ;D That "ad" never saw the light of mainstream day... it was on a website for all of one hour... one hour! More pointedly, it was a mistake that it was included in a grouping of ads put up on the website - it had been deemed as 'not worthy... not to keep/run' by the 'war room'. 

try harder, hey kimmy!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 16, 2019, 12:47:29 am
In wake of the ethics commissioner's damning report...

lol.  Ethics commissioner, shmethics shmommissioner, right waldo?

oh kimmy - didja ever consider your "shmethics shmommissioner"... doesn't know his azz from a hole-in-the-ground?

Quote from: Errol Mendes - professor of constitutional and international law, president of the International Commission of Jurists, Canada, and a recipient of the Order of Ontario
There seems to have been a serious misinterpretation of his own act and his jurisdiction by the ethics commissioner. There needs to be far more in depth discussion of the accuracy of this report among government, the media and indeed the public deciding whether the report will influence their vote in the coming election. (https://ipolitics.ca/2019/08/15/did-the-ethics-commissioner-misinterpret-his-own-act-and-jurisdiction/)
.
.
While there can be legitimate discussions on whether the prime minister and his officials crossed a line in their attempts to influence the decision of the attorney general in terms of the Shawcross doctrine, in terms of ministerial and cabinet responsibility, it should not be part of any application of Section 9 of the Conflict of Interest Act.

well didja?

well didja kimmy... didja?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 16, 2019, 12:49:39 am
Because Justin "Above The Law" Trudeau can't campaign on being "the sunny ways guy" any more, the best he can hope for is convincing people that the other guy is worse.

don't be shy, hey kimmy! Let us know the leader/party kimmy favours... who has your vote, hey?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 16, 2019, 12:55:50 am
so weak! The sauce is weak! Weak Andy - don't worry Scheer, Doug Ford will turn Ontario's economy around in the next couple of months - he's got your back!

(https://i.imgur.com/RZuoAxv.png)

Quote
According to a monthly survey conducted by Nanos Research Group for Bloomberg News, 37% of respondents say they trust Trudeau the most to promote economic growth, compared with 27% for Conservative Party leader Andrew Scheer.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: kimmy on August 16, 2019, 10:06:09 am
don't be shy, hey kimmy! Let us know the leader/party kimmy favours... who has your vote, hey?

My vote doesn't matter-- the incumbent CPC candidate in my riding, Dan Blablabla, will win by a landslide.  If I lived a few blocks east I could vote for incumbent Liberal Stephen Fuhr, but he's likely going to get smoked this time around too. I'll wear a Waldo avatar for a week if Stephen Fuhr gets re-elected.

Practicality aside, my preferred outcome for this election would be a precarious minority Liberal government and a dismal showing for all 3 major party leaders so that they all get turfed. Get those losers outta there!

 -k
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: kimmy on August 16, 2019, 10:09:19 am
typical 'know-it-all' (in your own mind) kimmy!  ;D That "ad" never saw the light of mainstream day... it was on a website for all of one hour... one hour! More pointedly, it was a mistake that it was included in a grouping of ads put up on the website - it had been deemed as 'not worthy... not to keep/run' by the 'war room'. 

Whether it was actually aired is beside the point, it perfectly captures the spirit of Liberal fearmongering that we're going to see over the next 3 months.  Ask Adam "Fake News" Vaughn!

 -k
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 16, 2019, 10:54:40 am
Whether it was actually aired is beside the point, it perfectly captures the spirit of Liberal fearmongering that we're going to see over the next 3 months.  Ask Adam "Fake News" Vaughn!

fwiw: the ad was to have been in response to Harper's statements on 'entrenching the military closer to/within communities'. In any case, that's what "war rooms" do... they have 'dedicated professionals'  ;D carving out attacks/responses to other parties shyte. But again, it was pulled after only an hour on the website... and was never aired! Which hasn't stopped those with an agenda from continually bringing it forward - like you just have.

but hey now! Perhaps you should pay a tad more attention to Scheer and his lil' RebelHobbit Hamish... they were out of the gate with the sleeze/fearmongering weeks ago!

as for you, apparently, picking up on the latest Scheer/CPC BS talking point concerning Adam Vaughn, CBC's online disinformation reporter/officer has a message for you:

(https://i.imgur.com/d89N38s.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2019, 12:00:28 pm
hey weak Andy - in your "vision" what will you be cutting?

(https://i.imgur.com/sI89AXB.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: kimmy on August 18, 2019, 12:49:28 pm
fwiw: the ad was to have been in response to Harper's statements on 'entrenching the military closer to/within communities'. In any case, that's what "war rooms" do... they have 'dedicated professionals'  ;D carving out attacks/responses to other parties shyte. But again, it was pulled after only an hour on the website... and was never aired! Which hasn't stopped those with an agenda from continually bringing it forward - like you just have.

because it perfectly exemplifies the Liberal fearmongering (or is it Scheermongering?) we're going to see (and are already seeing.)


as for you, apparently, picking up on the latest Scheer/CPC BS talking point concerning Adam Vaughn, CBC's online disinformation reporter/officer has a message for you:

(https://i.imgur.com/d89N38s.png)

Well that's certainly a load of shit.

Kaleigh Rogers says it's "clear that he's talking about the US" even though he doesn't mention the US at all, is talking entirely about Canada's federal Conservatives and Ontario's Ford government, and makes no mention of the source of these pictures.  One could easily come away with the impression that these pictures are the result of Ford cuts in Ontario.

If Kaleigh Rogers doesn't see an issue here, then Kaleigh Rogers sucks at her job. She seems content that it's not "technically" a lie.  Perhaps she's a graduate of the Lionel Hutz School of Philosophy. Perhaps she's just an idiot. Regardless, her defense of Vaughn is BS, and it obviously didn't fly with anybody else either because he deleted them and apologized after a flurry of criticism calling it what it was: Fake News.

Here's the tweets:

(https://i.imgur.com/TyRSzl0.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/0oVR2lf.png)

 -k
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: kimmy on August 18, 2019, 12:58:06 pm

CPC leader Andrew Scheer - in keeping with his homophobia! Federal leaders, except Scheer, march together at Vancouver Pride (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2019/08/05/federal-leaders-except-scheer-march-together-at-vancouver-pride.html)

(https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/canada/2019/08/05/federal-leaders-except-scheer-march-together-at-vancouver-pride/three_leaders_march.jpg)


I'm the only gay person here, as far as I know, and I wouldn't be caught dead at one of those things either.



Are us homos supposed to be afraid that Scheer would try to repeal gay rights or send gay people to jail or something?   I might have cared in the past if some politician wouldn't attend a Pride event, but at this point Pride is a steaming stack of bullshit that I'd be ashamed to (and afraid to) participate in.

 -k
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2019, 02:08:04 pm
because it perfectly exemplifies the Liberal fearmongering (or is it Scheermongering?) we're going to see (and are already seeing.)

do you have examples of said "Liberal fearmongering" put forward by the Liberal Party... that have put you on edge... that have you most concerned?

Well that's certainly a load of ****.

Kaleigh Rogers says it's "clear that he's talking about the US" even though he doesn't mention the US at all, is talking entirely about Canada's federal Conservatives and Ontario's Ford government, and makes no mention of the source of these pictures.  One could easily come away with the impression that these pictures are the result of Ford cuts in Ontario.

If Kaleigh Rogers doesn't see an issue here, then Kaleigh Rogers sucks at her job. She seems content that it's not "technically" a lie.  Perhaps she's a graduate of the Lionel Hutz School of Philosophy. Perhaps she's just an idiot. Regardless, her defense of Vaughn is BS, and it obviously didn't fly with anybody else either because he deleted them and apologized after a flurry of criticism calling it what it was: Fake News.

try reading them again! Ms. Kaleigh Rogers certainly doesn't have your struggles with plain English! Vaughn broadly speaks to "right-wing scapegoating"... to "where radical Conservative agendas lead". It's too bad you can speak of an apology but not actually relay it; here, let the waldo do what you should have done:

Quote from: Adam Vaughn
I am sorry that the tweet pushed what should be a serious conversation about child welfare into a political debate over what constitutes fair and responsible comment
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2019, 02:11:27 pm
I'm the only gay person here, as far as I know, and I wouldn't be caught dead at one of those things either.

Are us homos supposed to be afraid that Scheer would try to repeal gay rights or send gay people to jail or something?   I might have cared in the past if some politician wouldn't attend a Pride event, but at this point Pride is a steaming stack of bullshit that I'd be ashamed to (and afraid to) participate in.

you're clearly an outlier - apparently terfed from the fold!  ;D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2019, 02:15:35 pm
oh my! There should be a law - wait... there is one concerning life-jackets! As for weakSauce Scheer tormenting his daughter...  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/T8Vy8A9.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 18, 2019, 02:23:16 pm
-- other than the Waldo-derided "CONmedia"-- has been deafening

ya ya, kimmy - let me put a tad more polish on your implication concerning Scheer's PostmediaLapdogs: You Must Be This Conservative To Ride: The Inside Story of Postmedia’s Right Turn (https://www.canadalandshow.com/the-conservative-transformation-of-postmedia/)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 19, 2019, 01:09:16 am
I'm the only gay person here, as far as I know, and I wouldn't be caught dead at one of those things either.

Is it me or is it weird that Jagmeet Singh was wearing a floral button shirt and a pink turban?  Is it mandatory for straight men to dress like some kind of stereotype of a gay man when marching in Pride?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 19, 2019, 01:30:45 am
Is it me or is it weird that Jagmeet Singh was wearing a floral button shirt and a pink turban?  Is it mandatory for straight men to dress like some kind of stereotype of a gay man when marching in Pride?

apparently... pink is a turban colour choice for weddings and other celebratory events
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on August 19, 2019, 03:02:50 am
Is it me or is it weird that Jagmeet Singh was wearing a floral button shirt and a pink turban?  Is it mandatory for straight men to dress like some kind of stereotype of a gay man when marching in Pride?

Trudeau's wearing pink.
They're just trying to blend in.
Suits would look stupid. Lol
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 19, 2019, 11:07:41 am
I'm the only gay person here, as far as I know, and I wouldn't be caught dead at one of those things either.

Are us homos supposed to be afraid that Scheer would try to repeal gay rights or send gay people to jail or something?   I might have cared in the past if some politician wouldn't attend a Pride event, but at this point Pride is a steaming stack of bullshit that I'd be ashamed to (and afraid to) participate in.

you're clearly an outlier - apparently terfed from the fold!  ;D

hey now - weakAndy MIA again at the recent days Montreal Pride Parade:

(https://www.theglobeandmail.com/resizer/JYcd3sf_qfEKlonkyZa5zzdBuY0=/1200x0/filters:quality(80)/arc-anglerfish-tgam-prod-tgam.s3.amazonaws.com/public/S2ZFW67Q3ZCFLGKRUTMHFBPDMA.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 19, 2019, 12:47:02 pm
oh my! There should be a law - wait... there is one concerning life-jackets! As for weakSauce Scheer tormenting his daughter...  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/T8Vy8A9.jpg)

Cite. I believe there just has to be life jackets for everyone on board, not that one has to wear them while in the boat.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 19, 2019, 01:02:11 pm
Cite. I believe there just has to be life jackets for everyone on board, not that one has to wear them while in the boat.

Mistreatment of wildlife could be an issue here as well. Not to mention "daughter baiting".
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 19, 2019, 01:13:00 pm
Mistreatment of wildlife could be an issue here as well. Not to mention "daughter baiting".

Well if that's how this election is gonna be fought.  ::)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on August 19, 2019, 06:39:43 pm
Is it me or is it weird that Jagmeet Singh was wearing a floral button shirt and a pink turban?

The former.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 20, 2019, 10:24:46 am
The former.

Pink turban?   I think Poonlight is colour blind. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 20, 2019, 11:19:08 am
Pink turban?   I think Poonlight is colour blind.

LOL no i was referring to the first pic that waldo posted from Vancouver Pride:

(https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/canada/2019/08/05/federal-leaders-except-scheer-march-together-at-vancouver-pride/three_leaders_march.jpg)

I can see why you got confused because obviously Singh's pink flowery shirt is his go-to cross-country Pride march uniform.  That's just odd.

"Hey look I'm Jagmeet and I dress like a gay man to support LGBT!"
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on August 20, 2019, 11:47:38 am
LOL no i was referring to the first pic

Maybe it is a mood turban.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 20, 2019, 01:41:11 pm
LOL no i was referring to the first pic that waldo posted from Vancouver Pride:

(https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/canada/2019/08/05/federal-leaders-except-scheer-march-together-at-vancouver-pride/three_leaders_march.jpg)

I can see why you got confused because obviously Singh's pink flowery shirt is his go-to cross-country Pride march uniform.  That's just odd.

"Hey look I'm Jagmeet and I dress like a gay man to support LGBT!"


Pink is used in anti-bullying campaigns.  Seems pretty fitting to me.

You think a loud shirt is a sign of gayness?   I think it’s a sign of being on a cruise. 

I think your concern about this says more about you than Singh.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 20, 2019, 01:47:07 pm
Pink is used in anti-bullying campaigns.  Seems pretty fitting to me.

geezaz - there are recognized colours for recognized occasions... it's in the Sikh code... try a googly, hey!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 20, 2019, 02:02:04 pm
geezaz - there are recognized colours for recognized occasions... it's in the Sikh code... try a googly, hey!

OK.  I don’t really care, but I looked it up...   pink is for marriage ceremonies in the spring. 

You think he thought he was at a wedding?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 20, 2019, 02:04:56 pm
OK.  I don’t really care, but I looked it up...   pink is for marriage ceremonies in the spring. 

You think he thought he was at a wedding?

I think he was actually hoping you wouldn't do that.  :D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 20, 2019, 02:08:36 pm
OK.  I don’t really care, but I looked it up...   pink is for marriage ceremonies in the spring. 

You think he thought he was at a wedding?

as I stated in my earlier post - yes, that's one occasion to consider wearing a pink turban... as I also stated, it's not the only occasion. Try again, try harder!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 20, 2019, 02:30:45 pm
as I stated in my earlier post - yes, that's one occasion to consider wearing a pink turban... as I also stated, it's not the only occasion. Try again, try harder!

Don’t care.  I’m sure he had great reasons, and clearly you know exactly why he chose the colour pink to wear that day. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on August 20, 2019, 03:23:37 pm
LOL no i was referring to the first pic that waldo posted from Vancouver Pride:

(https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/canada/2019/08/05/federal-leaders-except-scheer-march-together-at-vancouver-pride/three_leaders_march.jpg)

I can see why you got confused because obviously Singh's pink flowery shirt is his go-to cross-country Pride march uniform.  That's just odd.

"Hey look I'm Jagmeet and I dress like a gay man to support LGBT!"

Please stop the gay-bashing.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 20, 2019, 06:38:17 pm
Maybe it is a mood turban.

If so i want one.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 20, 2019, 06:46:51 pm
Please stop the gay-bashing.

LOL i'm not gay bashing, I'm Singh bashing.  I have multiple gay guy friends who wear shirts like that. I don't have straight friends who wear shirts like that every time they hang out with gay people so they can look like they fit in.  It's weird.

But let's face it, Scheer should be at one of these parades at the very least.  He could wear a red shirt as i assume tomatoes would be thrown at him.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 22, 2019, 11:48:49 am
ethics, smethics - a week+ since Elections Canada sanctioned CPC MPs Erin O'Toole & Lisa Raitt for improper fundraising... O'Toole forced to refund $30,000; still waiting on a number tally for Raitt. C'mon weakSauce Andy, no comment? Have you, will you, call for an RCMP investigation?   ;D
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 22, 2019, 12:47:22 pm
c'mon Andy, you can't run from your homophobia... sure, your so obvious refusal to attend Pride Parades is front&center... but are you still against same-sex couples marrying - still weakSauce?

in this linked video, Scheer is talking about dog legs and tails - can someone translate this... what does he mean? Anyone, anyone... anyone? (https://twitter.com/i/videos/1164530407016148999)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 22, 2019, 01:01:46 pm
c'mon Andy, you can't run from your homophobia... sure, your so obvious refusal to attend Pride Parades is front&center... but are you still against same-sex couples marrying - still weakSauce?

in this linked video, Scheer is talking about dog legs and tails - can someone translate this... what does he mean? Anyone, anyone... anyone? (https://twitter.com/i/videos/1164530407016148999)

How the hell did this inarticulate, backward-thinking bible-thumper become party leader?   Holy shit.  If Michael Chong were leader right now, the CPC would be miles more electable. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on August 22, 2019, 02:16:05 pm
How the hell did this inarticulate, backward-thinking bible-thumper become party leader?   Holy ****.  If Michael Chong were leader right now, the CPC would be miles more electable.

The root problem with the CPC is they were founded on regression. Time to bring back the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada, and do away with the Harper chapter.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 22, 2019, 02:51:19 pm
c'mon Andy, you can't run from your homophobia... sure, your so obvious refusal to attend Pride Parades is front&center... but are you still against same-sex couples marrying - still weakSauce?

in this linked video, Scheer is talking about dog legs and tails - can someone translate this... what does he mean? Anyone, anyone... anyone? (https://twitter.com/i/videos/1164530407016148999)

You know, Obama was opposed to Gay Marriage at one point too.

Is Scheer pledging to role back Gay Rights?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 22, 2019, 02:52:14 pm
The root problem with the CPC is they were founded on regression. Time to bring back the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada, and do away with the Harper chapter.

What Social Issues did Harper regress?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 22, 2019, 05:04:37 pm
You know, Obama was opposed to Gay Marriage at one point too.

Is Scheer pledging to role back Gay Rights?

Please show us a video where Obama sounded as inept and backward as Scheer did in that video.  It was shameful and kinda gross.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on August 22, 2019, 05:21:46 pm
What Social Issues did Harper regress?

I sometimes think of Harper being Trump's inspiration, but of course nowhere near as far off his rocker. He did however lead with:

Attacks on the press
Gutting environmental protections
Attacking refugees (eg. Bill C-31)
Disregard for human rights (eg. opposing bills that addressed Canadian mining companies operating overseas, bill C-10 going against international children's rights)
Supporting torture by accepting "evidence" gained from it
De-funding international NGOs that offered abortion as part of their mandate
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 22, 2019, 05:39:14 pm
You know, Obama was opposed to Gay Marriage at one point too.

Is Scheer pledging to role back Gay Rights?

whataboutism! Of course Scheer hasn't changed his anti-SSM position one bit - he wouldn't vote for it today! Since he took on the CPC leadership the "brain trust" came up with a way for Scheer to dance and weasel-word around his homophobia... he says he accepts SSM since its the law of the land... he most certainly does not state he is in favour of it - he doesn't acknowledge that his religious extremism prevents him from accepting SSM on principle, on value!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 22, 2019, 06:12:29 pm
whataboutism! Of course Scheer hasn't changed his anti-SSM position one bit - he wouldn't vote for it today! Since he took on the CPC leadership the "brain trust" came up with a way for Scheer to dance and weasel-word around his homophobia... he says he accepts SSM since its the law of the land... he most certainly does not state he is in favour of it - he doesn't acknowledge that his religious extremism prevents him from accepting SSM on principle, on value!

Good points.  Obama is now in favour and sees he was wrong.   Does Scheer?   Not bloody likely!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on August 22, 2019, 08:40:52 pm
OMFG ... I just saw the video on the news.

Embarassing not so much for the opinion, but for what appears to be a 16-year-old Scheer reading a high school essay he wrote from the back benches "What I did to oppose SSM last summer"

Seriously, team Trudeau can make hay of this one... probably much more... while Scheer is waiting for the RCMP to call him back...
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 22, 2019, 08:49:09 pm
Good points.  Obama is now in favour and sees he was wrong.   Does Scheer?   Not bloody likely!

That's just what he says.  That's what Hillary says too.  Me thinks they just waited until it was politically viable to publicly change their opinions.  They're both sell-outs.  Guys like Obama and Bill Clinton are fantastic politicians because they can lie and make us believe it.  Hillary doesn't have that gift, nor did Al Gore.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 22, 2019, 08:52:49 pm
That's just what he says.  That's what Hillary says too.  Me thinks they just waited until it was politically viable to publicly change their opinions.  They're both sell-outs.  Guys like Obama and Bill Clinton are fantastic politicians because they can lie and make us believe it.  Hillary doesn't have that gift, nor did Al Gore.

Hillary or Obama couldn't hold a candle to Trump when it comes to lying just to inform you.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 22, 2019, 08:57:35 pm
They're both sell-outs.

Sell outs because they realize (or say they do) that gay marriage is the right thing to support, versus opposing it?  Sell outs to whom?  Red necks?  Religious right?   

That makes no sense.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: eyeball on August 22, 2019, 10:35:33 pm
Cite. I believe there just has to be life jackets for everyone on board, not that one has to wear them while in the boat.
Correct. In a boat and on a boat however mean two different things.  Regulations do not require it but we still require everyone over a certain weight/size to wear an inflatable 'personal flotation device' at all times on the boats I drive. Everyone is instructed in how to use it and told to inflate it only if they fall off the boat.  Kids who are to small to safely fit the PFD wear a child's life-jacket.  Transport Canada requires us to ensure kids take these off while they are in the cabin then put them on again when they go out on deck. It seems counter-intuitive until you think about it for a moment.  Its cute for example when someone asks why the Zodiacs don't have seat-belts.

In addition to all the above we also carry the required number of conventional life-jackets and lifeboats for everyone.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 22, 2019, 10:39:34 pm
Correct. In a boat and on a boat however mean two different things.  Regulations do not require it but we still require everyone over a certain weight/size to wear an inflatable 'personal flotation device' at all times on the boats I drive. Everyone is instructed in how to use it and told to inflate it only if they fall off the boat.  Kids who are to small to safely fit the PFD wear a child's life-jacket.  Transport Canada requires us to ensure kids take these off while they are in the cabin then put them on again when they go out on deck. It seems counter-intuitive until you think about it for a moment.  Its cute for example when someone asks why the Zodiacs don't have seat-belts.

In addition to all the above we also carry the required number of conventional life-jackets and lifeboats for everyone.

Which is also why you are told not to pull the cord to inflate your flotation device until you have left the plane. Pinned to the floorboards of an inverted Boeing would be a bad way to go.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: eyeball on August 22, 2019, 10:45:50 pm
Which is also why you are told not to pull the cord to inflate your flotation device until you have left the plane. Pinned to the floorboards of an inverted Boeing would be a bad way to go.
When do I pull the cord on my parachute or is that a cute question?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 22, 2019, 10:49:03 pm
Sell outs because they realize (or say they do) that gay marriage is the right thing to support, versus opposing it?  Sell outs to whom?  Red necks?  Religious right?   

That makes no sense.

They coincidentally came out in support of gay marriage when it was politically convenient to do so.  IMO, their public views on gay marriage, in support or against, reflected whatever would get them the most votes at the time.

I don't agree with Scheer at all on the matter, but at least he doesn't fake it for votes.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 22, 2019, 10:50:32 pm
When do I pull the cord on my parachute or is that a cute question?

You can wait quite late so as to enjoy the freefall. Basically when the vision of the grass etc. starts to become clearly visible, it's time.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on August 22, 2019, 10:53:16 pm
LOL i'm not gay bashing, I'm Singh bashing.  I have multiple gay guy friends who wear shirts like that. I don't have straight friends who wear shirts like that every time they hang out with gay people so they can look like they fit in.  It's weird.
It's a fine line, ridiculing someone for looking gay.
Quote
But let's face it, Scheer should be at one of these parades at the very least.  He could wear a red shirt as i assume tomatoes would be thrown at him.

Gawd, he'd look horrible in tomato red.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on August 22, 2019, 10:58:52 pm
c'mon Andy, you can't run from your homophobia... sure, your so obvious refusal to attend Pride Parades is front&center... but are you still against same-sex couples marrying - still weakSauce?

in this linked video, Scheer is talking about dog legs and tails - can someone translate this... what does he mean? Anyone, anyone... anyone? (https://twitter.com/i/videos/1164530407016148999)

Well that was amusing.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 23, 2019, 12:55:20 am


(https://i.imgur.com/tGI2quz.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 23, 2019, 08:29:12 am
Ralph Goodale, the guy who posted this SQUIRREL!!!! look over here and stop talking about Lav-Scam video, also voted against Gay Marriage. HOMOPHOBE!!!!

A lot of people believed that Marriage is a certain thing. Gay Civil Unions are fine, but they aren't marriage. People evolve, there was no real threat to Gay or Abortion rights in Canada. Bringing it up is just fear-mongering, which is all JT seems to have to run on right now.

There are people in the CPC that probably do think Gay Marriage rights should be rolled back, but they won't ever get elected or re-elected with policy positions like that.

Whether Scheer believes in it, or not, is less important than what he'll do as PM. It would nice if he came out in full support of Gay Marriage, but he's probably worried about losing support on the other end of his party to the PPC. It's politics.

You see the Republicans gearing up for a similar tactic in the 2020 election where Democrats will have to be counted on their views on the BDS movement because certain members of the party are for it.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on August 23, 2019, 08:42:47 am
How the hell did this inarticulate, backward-thinking bible-thumper become party leader? 
Because he represents the will of the Conservative party membership. That's who they are. That's who they want. That's who represents them the best.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 23, 2019, 09:25:51 am
Because he represents the will of the Conservative party membership. That's who they are. That's who they want. That's who represents them the best.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Scheer needs to address this but it was 15 years ago. Has no one here had their views change and evolve over time? I know mine have, including on the question of gay relationships.

Also, having a particular belief doesn’t automatically mean you want to restrict the rights of others. It’s OK to believe the institution of marriage is a union between a man and a woman, it is not OK to translate that belief into depriving someone of the same rights you enjoy.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 23, 2019, 09:30:03 am
Scheer needs to address this but it was 15 years ago. Has no one here had their views change and evolve over time? I know mine have, including on the question of gay relationships.

Also, having a particular belief doesn’t automatically mean you want to restrict the rights of others. It’s OK to believe the institution of marriage is a union between a man and a woman, it is not OK to translate that belief into depriving someone of the same rights you enjoy.

This is the problem with this new virtue signalling Liberalism. If you've ever hold view that aren't considered Woke by today's standards, you're just as bad as you were then.

Joe Biden is being targeted for things he said and did in a far different time.

People's views evolve.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on August 23, 2019, 09:33:46 am
This is the problem with this new virtue signalling Liberalism.
Christ. Stop reading conservative blogs. Virtue signalling isn't unique to "liberals." Conservatives practically live on virtue signalling. The biggest irony is just the damn phrase "virtue signalling" has come to be "HEY! LOOK AT ME! I HATE LIBERALS!" It's literally virtue signalling to use the phrase "virtue signalling" itself!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 23, 2019, 09:38:37 am
Christ. Stop reading conservative blogs. Virtue signalling isn't unique to "liberals." Conservatives practically live on virtue signalling. The biggest irony is just the damn phrase "virtue signalling" has come to be "HEY! LOOK AT ME! I HATE LIBERALS!" It's literally virtue signalling to use the phrase "virtue signalling" itself!

Do I seem like I read Conservative Blogs? And yes, as mentioned earlier, Conservatives do it too. I noted how American politicians are probably going to be forced to come down on one side, or the other, regarding Israeli BDS. Coming down on the pro-side will leave them open to be painted as Israel hating Anti-Semites.

And a Liberal, Bill Maher, is the one that's been highlighting this issue in my sphere of media attention the most.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efbm3JS0J04



Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on August 23, 2019, 09:39:43 am
Bill Maher is not a liberal. He's not progressive at all. He's a scorch-the-earth libertarian that wants to watch the world burn and makes good money doing it.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 23, 2019, 09:45:37 am
Bill Maher is not a liberal. He's not progressive at all. He's a scorch-the-earth libertarian that wants to watch the world burn and makes good money doing it.

 ::)

So just to be clear, You're of the opinion that people can't evolve from opinions that haven't aged well?

If you were on record of being against Gay marriage in 2005, you can't suddenly say you're for it now and not receive political blowback.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 23, 2019, 10:00:29 am
Christ. Stop reading conservative blogs. Virtue signalling isn't unique to "liberals." Conservatives practically live on virtue signalling. The biggest irony is just the damn phrase "virtue signalling" has come to be "HEY! LOOK AT ME! I HATE LIBERALS!" It's literally virtue signalling to use the phrase "virtue signalling" itself!

Liberal or not, virtue signalling is a thing.

For the first 23 years of my life it was illegal to be a homosexual in Canada, People are no different now than they were then, they just have a benefit of hindsight that those before did not. That's no reason to claim moral superiority, that is just virtue signalling.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 10:02:33 am
::)

So just to be clear, You're of the opinion that people can't evolve from opinions that haven't aged well?

If you were on record of being against Gay marriage in 2005, you can't suddenly say you're for it now and not receive political blowback.

Has Scheer’s opinion on being gay evolved?   I doubt it.  He doesn’t say “I was wrong.  Being gay and gay marriage is actually ok”.   He says “it’s the law of the land” or something stupid like that.  His views haven’t changed. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 23, 2019, 10:09:06 am
Has Scheer’s opinion on being gay evolved?   I doubt it.  He doesn’t say “I was wrong.  Being gay and gay marriage is actually ok”.   He says “it’s the law of the land” or something stupid like that.  His views haven’t changed.

Well let's see what he says. He hasn't made a public statement yet. But I do know he won't re-open this issue.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 23, 2019, 10:17:36 am
Scheer needs to address this but it was 15 years ago. Has no one here had their views change and evolve over time? I know mine have, including on the question of gay relationships.

Jean Chretien and Paul Martin also voted against gay marriage during the Chretien years.

So did Harper.  What really matters is what Boges said, how will Scheer govern?  He's certainly not going to repeal gay marriage, just as Harper didn't, it's political suicide, and would probably be challenged by the Supreme Court anyways.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 10:21:00 am
Well let's see what he says. He hasn't made a public statement yet. But I do know he won't re-open this issue.

He hasn’t stated anything in the years since it became legal...   that’s rather odd.   Except for “it’s the law of the land”.  Well, we know that Mr. Scheer...    what do you actually think?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 10:22:41 am
Jean Chretien and Paul Martin also voted against gay marriage during the Chretien years.

So did Harper.  What really matters is what Boges said, how will Scheer govern?  He's certainly not going to repeal gay marriage, just as Harper didn't, it's political suicide, and would probably be challenged by the Supreme Court anyways.

And they were wrong to do so.  And none of them are the potential Prime Minister of the country.  Saying how $hitty someone else used to be does not excuse Scheer of being a $hitty person now. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 23, 2019, 10:26:24 am
Well let's see what he says. He hasn't made a public statement yet. But I do know he won't re-open this issue.

He's already made it pretty clear in interviews where he said he has his own Roman Catholic religious beliefs but that he has no intention of messing with gay marriage law.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 10:29:16 am
He's already made it pretty clear in interviews where he said he has his own Roman Catholic religious beliefs but that he has no intention of messing with gay marriage law.

“What do you think of blacks marrying whites”?

“Well...   it’s the law of the land, I guess...   we don’t plan on changing it back”

I’m a racist bigot, but I will follow the law...    that’s an awesome stance.

I’m a homophobic bigot, but I will follow the law.

Not exactly PM material.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 23, 2019, 10:31:25 am
Scheer of being a $hitty person now.

Well this is in the new "Now" because of something he said in 2005.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 23, 2019, 10:34:32 am
He's already made it pretty clear in interviews where he said he has his own Roman Catholic religious beliefs but that he has no intention of messing with gay marriage law.

Chretien is also a practicing Catholic. But he was PM when virtue signalling wasn't an issue and neither was gay marriage such a cause celeb. Sign of the times.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 10:39:29 am
Well this is in the new "Now" because of something he said in 2005.


Someone email this to Mr. Scheer, so he can stop the carnage:

“Like many Liberal MPs, including the PM of the time, I used to hold these views.   They were wrong and I am fully supportive of gay marriage in Canada as a human right”. 

Rather than “I’m a homophobic bigot, but it’s the law of the land”. 

2 simple sentences can flip the Liberal political play on its head and make it a win for him and his party and make the Libs look petty. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 23, 2019, 10:46:53 am
“I’m a homophobic bigot, but it’s the law of the land”. 

He said that?  ::)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 10:53:07 am
He said that?  ::)

Without actually saying the 1st part, yes.  When he goes on about the “law of the land”, I draw the inference that he’s a homophobic bigot.  I think it’s pretty clear.  Because if I can whip up 2 sentences for the media to flip the narrative, so can his consultants.  But he can’t bring himself to say that.   Why not?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 10:56:43 am
Chretien is also a practicing Catholic. But he was PM when virtue signalling wasn't an issue and neither was gay marriage such a cause celeb. Sign of the times.

What Chrétien thought in the 90’s really doesn’t matter.   What’s important is what the current leadership thinks.  Does Scheer think gay marriage is a human right?  Simple question that “It’s the law of the land” doesn’t answer. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 23, 2019, 11:13:37 am
What Chrétien thought in the 90’s really doesn’t matter.   What’s important is what the current leadership thinks.  Does Scheer think gay marriage is a human right?  Simple question that “It’s the law of the land” doesn’t answer.

What Chretien thought in the nineties doesn't matter but what Scheer thought 15 years ago does. Double standard don't you think. "The Law of the Land is an answer because it is. I don't expect a politician's personal beliefs to be exactly in sync with mine, if I did I couldn't vote for anyone. It's their public policy and actions that matter.

He does need to address this.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 23, 2019, 11:18:28 am
It would nice if he came out in full support of Gay Marriage, but he's probably worried about losing support on the other end of his party to the PPC. It's politics.
Scheer needs to address this but it was 15 years ago. Has no one here had their views change and evolve over time? I know mine have, including on the question of gay relationships.
So just to be clear, You're of the opinion that people can't evolve from opinions that haven't aged well?
Has Scheer’s opinion on being gay evolved?   I doubt it.  He doesn’t say “I was wrong.  Being gay and gay marriage is actually ok”.   He says “it’s the law of the land” or something stupid like that.  His views haven’t changed.
Well let's see what he says. He hasn't made a public statement yet. But I do know he won't re-open this issue.
Well this is in the new "Now" because of something he said in 2005.
What Chretien thought in the nineties doesn't matter but what Scheer thought 15 years ago does. Double standard don't you think.

guys, guys - cause it's Scheer in 2016! Hey member Boges, is this your evolution of Scheer... is this, as you say, the new "Now"? Hey member wilber, still your stated double standard - still? (https://twitter.com/i/videos/1164606916804448257)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 11:23:18 am
What Chretien thought in the nineties doesn't matter but what Scheer thought 15 years ago does. Double standard don't you think. "The Law of the Land is an answer because it is. I don't expect a politician's personal beliefs to be exactly in sync with mine, if I did I couldn't vote for anyone. It's their public policy and actions that matter.

He does need to address this.

No, what he thinks now matters.  I don’t want a bigot as the PM even if he doesn’t govern like a bigot.  (As if that type of personal view wouldn’t influence your governing).    It matters what a potential PM thinks of a human rights issue.

“Listen...   coloured folk can vote...   it’s the law of the land and we won’t change that”

Would you just think “well, his personal views don’t mesh with mine about the coloureds, but he won’t do anything to change the laws about whether they can vote, so he’s ok”?


Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on August 23, 2019, 11:28:08 am
What Chretien thought in the nineties doesn't matter but what Scheer thought 15 years ago does. Double standard don't you think. 

Yes I do.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 23, 2019, 11:34:44 am
No, what he thinks now matters.  I don’t want a bigot as the PM even if he doesn’t govern like a bigot.  (As if that type of personal view wouldn’t influence your governing).    It matters what a potential PM thinks of a human rights issue.

“Listen...   coloured folk can vote...   it’s the law of the land and we won’t change that”

Would you just think “well, his personal views don’t mesh with mine about the coloureds, but he won’t do anything to change the laws about whether they can vote, so he’s ok”?

I think you are getting hysterical.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 11:40:34 am
I think you are getting hysterical.

You don’t think gay marriage is a human rights issue?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2019, 11:49:59 am
You don’t think gay marriage is a human rights issue?

Not only gay marriage but I'd be concerned we would see the abortion issue on the table again.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Goddess on August 23, 2019, 11:52:03 am
I think he needs to reply to the gay marriage statements.  They were made in 2005 - 14 years ago.  Perhaps he has softened his views.

**Not a CPC or Sheer fan, just like to believe people can change their views given new information.**
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on August 23, 2019, 12:05:30 pm
I think he needs to reply to the gay marriage statements.  They were made in 2005 - 14 years ago.  Perhaps he has softened his views.

**Not a CPC or Sheer fan, just like to believe people can change their views given new information.**
I doubt his religious views have changed.
I think he has only said that he will respect/obey?  the law.

Edit add obey?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Goddess on August 23, 2019, 12:22:14 pm
I doubt his religious views have changed.
I think he has only said that he will respect the law.

Hmmmm, not reassuring, is it?  Respect the law.....until he can change it?

I have a sixth sense for weasel words.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2019, 12:26:09 pm
“Canadians can have absolute confidence that a Conservative government after the election in October will not reopen this issue.”

There’s just one small problem, of course — Scheer gave a very different answer to an anti-abortion group when they asked him the same question about reopening the abortion debate.

During the 2017 Conservative leadership race, Scheer sat down for an interview with the anti-abortion group RightNow who asked him if he’d allow Conservative MPs to table private members bills targeting abortion as well as permit backbenchers and cabinet ministers to vote freely on anti-abortion legislation.

Scheer said yes.

“We allow for a diversity of views on these issues within our own caucus and we don’t tell anyone that they have to park their conscience of faith at the door,” Scheer told the anti-abortion group.

“It’s important that the next leader of our party not only allows that, but celebrates that tradition of having free votes on matters of conscience.”

https://pressprogress.ca/andrew-scheer-told-anti-abortion-group-hed-let-conservative-mps-reopen-the-abortion-debate/
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 23, 2019, 12:41:20 pm
You don’t think gay marriage is a human rights issue?

Of course it is. We expect our politicians not to bring their religious beliefs to Government, regardless of the party they represent. It is the law of the land and has withstood court challenges, it isn't going to change. Any attempt to change it will meet the scorn it deserves.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 23, 2019, 12:48:32 pm
“Canadians can have absolute confidence that a Conservative government after the election in October will not reopen this issue.”

There’s just one small problem, of course — Scheer gave a very different answer to an anti-abortion group when they asked him the same question about reopening the abortion debate.

During the 2017 Conservative leadership race, Scheer sat down for an interview with the anti-abortion group RightNow who asked him if he’d allow Conservative MPs to table private members bills targeting abortion as well as permit backbenchers and cabinet ministers to vote freely on anti-abortion legislation.

Scheer said yes.

“We allow for a diversity of views on these issues within our own caucus and we don’t tell anyone that they have to park their conscience of faith at the door,” Scheer told the anti-abortion group.

“It’s important that the next leader of our party not only allows that, but celebrates that tradition of having free votes on matters of conscience.”

https://pressprogress.ca/andrew-scheer-told-anti-abortion-group-hed-let-conservative-mps-reopen-the-abortion-debate/

I am in favour of free votes on matters of conscience, it lets you know where individuals really stand relative to their party and public sentiment.

Quote
The Supreme Court of Canada which held that the abortion provision in the Criminal Code was unconstitutional because it violated a woman's right under section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms ("Charter") to security of person.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 12:56:07 pm
Of course it is. We expect our politicians not to bring their religious beliefs to Government, regardless of the party they represent. It is the law of the land and has withstood court challenges, it isn't going to change. Any attempt to change it will meet the scorn it deserves.

I also expect my PM and anyone in government to actually be actively in favour of human rights, not just put up with them because they have to.   Being a bigot excludes you from holding office, in my opinion, so I like to know what their personal views actually are. 

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 23, 2019, 01:07:48 pm
“What do you think of blacks marrying whites”?

“Well...   it’s the law of the land, I guess...   we don’t plan on changing it back”

I’m a racist bigot, but I will follow the law...    that’s an awesome stance.

I’m a homophobic bigot, but I will follow the law.

Not exactly PM material.

It's exactly the same stance Harper had.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 23, 2019, 01:12:26 pm
I also expect my PM and anyone in government to actually be actively in favour of human rights, not just put up with them because they have to.   Being a bigot excludes you from holding office, in my opinion, so I like to know what their personal views actually are.

Who says he isn't in favour of human rights? Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want as long as they don't interfere with the rights of others. I'm not a fan of abortion but that doesn't stop me from being pro choice.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 23, 2019, 01:23:08 pm
No, what he thinks now matters.  I don’t want a bigot as the PM even if he doesn’t govern like a bigot.  (As if that type of personal view wouldn’t influence your governing).

Did Harper's personal anti-gay marriage stance influence his governing?

I'd much prefer a PM who was pro gay marriage in his personal views.

I don't want a religious homophobe as the PM, or a lying bully crook virtue signaler as PM, or an inept fool Sikh terrorist sympathizer, or a reality-deprived spend-o-rama socialist (May), or a separatist, or a racist hot-head.  So pick your poison.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 23, 2019, 01:27:35 pm
Not only gay marriage but I'd be concerned we would see the abortion issue on the table again.

The abortion issue has been settled by the Supreme Court a very long time ago.  It would also be political suicide.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 01:37:13 pm
Who says he isn't in favour of human rights? Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want as long as they don't interfere with the rights of others. I'm not a fan of abortion but that doesn't stop me from being pro choice.

You think Scheer is pro-choice and in favour of gay marriage?  Please provide a cite.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on August 23, 2019, 01:38:50 pm
Scheer needs to address this but it was 15 years ago. Has no one here had their views change and evolve over time? I know mine have, including on the question of gay relationships.

2005 was not 1960.

I also note his opposition is based on inability to commit to the "natural procreation of children". I assume then he opposes any any marriage of heterosexual couples that are unable to conceive due to health related issues.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 01:41:48 pm
Did Harper's personal anti-gay marriage stance influence his governing?

I'd much prefer a PM who was pro gay marriage in his personal views.


You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth with respect to Scheer.   

Quote
I don't want a religious homophobe as the PM, or a lying bully crook virtue signaler as PM, or an inept fool Sikh terrorist sympathizer, or a reality-deprived spend-o-rama socialist (May), or a separatist, or a racist hot-head.  So pick your poison.


Sikh terrorist sympathizer?  That’s really stupid.  It’s an alt-right, racist talking point.  You keep showing that you’re a conspiracy theory nutjob. Stop repeating the stupid crap you read on the interwebs.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on August 23, 2019, 01:43:15 pm

I don't want a religious homophobe as the PM, or a lying bully crook virtue signaler as PM, or an inept fool Sikh terrorist sympathizer, or a reality-deprived spend-o-rama socialist (May), or a separatist, or a racist hot-head.  So pick your poison.

Wow, you are in a dark place.

I do note you believe all but the reality-deprived spend-o-rama socialist are obvious to all.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2019, 01:44:42 pm
The abortion issue has been settled by the Supreme Court a very long time ago.  It would also be political suicide.

Brian Mulroney and the cons. tried to enact a new law in 1989 and after two women died from botched abortions they finally backed off and left it to a woman and her doctor.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 23, 2019, 02:01:47 pm
You think Scheer is pro-choice and in favour of gay marriage?  Please provide a cite.

He doesn’t have to be either personally, he just can’t bring it to Government.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 23, 2019, 02:26:24 pm
You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth with respect to Scheer.   


Sikh terrorist sympathizer?  That’s really stupid.  It’s an alt-right, racist talking point.  You keep showing that you’re a conspiracy theory nutjob. Stop repeating the stupid crap you read on the interwebs.

Could be wrong but I think he is just trying to point out there are reasons for rejecting them all, depending on your point of view.

I don't know how I will vote yet, the debates will be important. Trouble is I might be out of the country with very limited internet access while they are in progress. Hope not.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 03:30:20 pm
He doesn’t have to be either personally, he just can’t bring it to Government.

You would support a bigot as long as they don’t govern that way?   What about a racist?   Antisemite?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 23, 2019, 03:51:21 pm
You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth with respect to Scheer.

No I'm certainly not.  My point, which you failed to understand, is that there are major flaws in the all the party leaders.  They're all nutjobs, so pick the nut that leaves the least sour taste in your mouth.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 23, 2019, 03:56:02 pm
I think he needs to reply to the gay marriage statements.  They were made in 2005 - 14 years ago.  Perhaps he has softened his views.
I don't want a religious homophobe as the PM

no - per the following linked 2016 vid, weakSauce has absolutely not changed/"softened" his views. Hey PG... weak Andy is exactly that - the religious homophobe you state you don't want as the PM!

guys, guys - cause it's Scheer in 2016! Hey member Boges, is this your evolution of Scheer... is this, as you say, the new "Now"? Hey member wilber, still your stated double standard - still? (https://twitter.com/i/videos/1164606916804448257)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 23, 2019, 03:56:35 pm
Sikh terrorist sympathizer?  That’s really stupid.  It’s an alt-right, racist talking point.  You keep showing that you’re a conspiracy theory nutjob. Stop repeating the stupid crap you read on the interwebs.

Yes those conspiracy nuts jobs at the Globe and Mail & CBC! Yes, stop reading stupid quotes that come out of Singh's own mouth!  I'm so racist for calling a terrorist sympathizer a terrorist sympathizer!  ::)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-strange-loyalties-of-jagmeet-singh/
Quote
Globe & Mail: When the CBC’s Terry Milewski pressed him hard on his views of the 1985 Air India bombing – the worst terrorist attack in Canadian history – Mr. Singh refused to blame the bombing on Sikh extremists. “I don’t know who was responsible,” he said. Mr. Milewski was accused by some of a touch of racism for even raising the matter. No unturbanned politician would have had to endure such a grilling, the critics charged.  But Mr. Milewski was right to ask."


https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/jagmeet-singh-1.4576838
Quote
Jagmeet Singh keeps getting asked about Sikh extremism because he won't give an answer: Robyn Urback

Singh appears not to have grasped that distinction yet, as evidenced by his inability to clarify his position on Khalistani extremism, which is made up of radical elements of the Sikh separatist movement. Months ago, when interviewed by CBC's Terry Milewski following the NDP leadership convention, Singh failed to denounce the glorification of Talwinder Singh Parmar, for example in posters displayed outside Sikh temples and other public places. Parmar is widely seen as the mastermind behind the 1985 Air India bombing that killed 329 people.

"I don't know who was responsible, but I think we need to find out who's truly responsible," Singh said about the terrorist attack, as if some great mystery still endures.

Many characterized the line of questioning as unfair — racist, even — arguing that Singh was being asked questions about Sikh extremism simply because he is a Sikh himself.  But Singh was being asked about Sikh extremism because he has involved himself in Sikh causes, including speaking out in the Ontario legislature against the death penalty for Balwant Singh Rajoana, a member of a Sikh terrorist group that conspired to kill a Punjabi politician.

This week, the Globe and Mail reported that Singh spoke at a Sikh separatist rally in 2015 that included a large poster of extremist leader Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. Bhindranwale was and is perceived by many as a pioneer of the Khalistan movement, but he is also seen as an unrepentant terrorist whose followers stormed public spaces (eventually, the Golden Temple) to assassinate opponents.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 23, 2019, 03:59:29 pm
squirrel Jagmeet Singh!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 23, 2019, 04:00:49 pm
I do note you believe all but the reality-deprived spend-o-rama socialist are obvious to all.

Not sure i understand your points here.  Please clarify.

Quote
Wow, you are in a dark place.

I'm not in a dark place, the country is, at least politically in the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 23, 2019, 04:02:43 pm
Could be wrong but I think he is just trying to point out there are reasons for rejecting them all, depending on your point of view.

That's exactly my point.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on August 23, 2019, 04:02:56 pm
Not sure i understand your points here.

It was the only one you put a name to, you expected us to know the other 5.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 23, 2019, 04:14:32 pm
no - per the following linked 2016 vid, weakSauce has absolutely not changed/"softened" his views. Hey PG... weak Andy is exactly that - the religious homophobe you state you don't want as the PM!

Yes I know that x2. It's pretty clear he's still personally against same-sex marriage, nobody should kid themselves about that.

CPC party policy as per the CPC convention and per Scheer is to keep same-sex marriage legal.  These are the facts, it's up to every voter to decide if they're comfortable or not with that compromise, as was the case under a Harper gov.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2019, 04:15:00 pm
It was the only one you put a name to, you expected us to know the other 5.

Exactly. What a mystery around as to who the other 5 are.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2019, 04:20:36 pm
Yes I know that x2. It's pretty clear he's still personally against same-sex marriage, nobody should kid themselves about that.

CPC party policy as per the CPC convention and per Scheer is to keep same-sex marriage legal.  These are the facts, it's up to every voter to decide if they're comfortable or not with that compromise, as was the case under a Harper gov.

Don't be so gullible as to assume "the compromise" will continue to be honored, especially based on previous comments by Scheer.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 04:43:21 pm
Don't be so gullible as to assume "the compromise" will continue to be honored, especially based on previous comments by Scheer.

Even if they don’t govern that way, who wants a bigot in there?   I gave them their speaking points earlier to completely flip this on the Libs, but he won’t do it. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 23, 2019, 04:45:46 pm
Yes those conspiracy nuts jobs at the Globe and Mail & CBC! Yes, stop reading stupid quotes that come out of Singh's own mouth!  I'm so racist for calling a terrorist sympathizer a terrorist sympathizer!  ::)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-strange-loyalties-of-jagmeet-singh/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/jagmeet-singh-1.4576838

He supports terrorism like Scheer supports stoning gay people to death.   It’s the hyperbole on your part (from the alt-right) that is idiotic.

I already stated that I wouldn’t vote for Singh for the same reasons in the articles you linked to.   He’s playing politics by not denouncing this.   But “terrorist sympathizer”?  That’s conspiracy theory thinking. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 23, 2019, 05:28:23 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/LNCxU50.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 23, 2019, 05:45:05 pm
Has no one here had their views change and evolve over time?

(https://i.imgur.com/QsrEHoA.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 23, 2019, 08:05:32 pm
You would support a bigot as long as they don’t govern that way?   What about a racist?   Antisemite?

No but I wouldn't not vote for someone just because someone else labelled them either.

I'll decide for myself whether someone is a racist, homophobe. antisemite etc and whether I want to vote for them.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 23, 2019, 08:09:16 pm
I was surprised to see that 32 Liberal MP's voted against the same-sex marriage bill that became law in 2005, even some Bloc and NDP too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_of_the_38th_Canadian_Parliament_and_same-sex_marriage

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 23, 2019, 11:07:37 pm
I was surprised to see that 32 Liberal MP's voted against the same-sex marriage bill that became law in 2005, even some Bloc and NDP too:

which was ~1/3 of the total number of Conservatives voting against... do you know how many of those backbenchers aligned with Scheer's comparison of gays to "dog legs and tail"? But hey, I was surprised to see that 3 (of 96) Conservative MP's voted for the same-sex marriage bill!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 23, 2019, 11:15:35 pm
Singh says NDP wouldn't prop up Scheer minority government due to 'disgusting' gay marriage speech --- NDP leader says he can't trust Andrew Scheer 'to champion the fundamental rights of Canadians' (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/singh-scheer-minority-1.5256647)

no worries weak Andy... the GP's May/Kinsella have still got your proping back!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 24, 2019, 10:17:30 am
(https://i.imgur.com/j0wTqCd.jpg)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 24, 2019, 01:55:55 pm
In 1995, Goodale voted against a motion from openly gay Bloc Québécois MP Réal Ménard that simply proposed “the legal recognition of same-sex spouses”. In 1999, he voted in favour of a Reform MP’s motion stating that “marriage is and should remain the union of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others.”
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2019, 02:07:54 pm
And Goodale supported same sex marriage in 2005. Apparently Scheer hasn't woken up yet on this issue.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 24, 2019, 02:12:38 pm
And Goodale supported same sex marriage in 2005. Apparently Scheer hasn't woken up yet on this issue.

(https://i.imgur.com/QsrEHoA.jpg)

is member wilber implying weak Andy is just a slow evolver?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2019, 02:15:45 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/QsrEHoA.jpg)

is member wilber implying weak Andy is just a slow evolver?

Perhaps a couple more terms on the sidelines will alow him to evolve. Or is that wishful thinking?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 24, 2019, 02:27:55 pm
And Goodale supported same sex marriage in 2005. Apparently Scheer hasn't woken up yet on this issue.

True to his beliefs like Scheer or just a political weather vane doing what's PC on the day.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 24, 2019, 02:32:28 pm
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Quote
One day after Global News reported that dozens of Canadian woman across the country are being sent to the U.S. for abortions they cannot access here and on the heel of a pledge by the Quebec government to make late-term abortion accessible to women in the province, Bloc Quebecois MP Monique Pauzé asked for unanimous consent on a motion related to abortion.

Her motion asked “that the House of Commons reiterate that a woman’s body belongs to her and her alone, and recognize her right to choose an abortion regardless of the reason.”


In response, Liberal, NDP, Green Party, Bloc Quebecois and Independent members rose to applaud her statement. But the Conservatives stayed in their seats and did not applaud (https://globalnews.ca/video/embed/5331877)

.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2019, 02:43:17 pm
True to his beliefs like Scheer or just a political weather vane doing what's PC on the day.

Who could be more of a "weather vane" than Scheer when you hear his comments regarding abortion during his CPC leader campaign time compared to now?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 24, 2019, 04:14:40 pm
Her motion asked “that the House of Commons reiterate that a woman’s body belongs to her and her alone, and recognize her right to choose an abortion regardless of the reason.”

Member waldo, do you believe a woman should be able to have an abortion because she wants to have a boy rather than a girl baby?  #feminism
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2019, 04:36:39 pm
Member waldo, do you believe a woman should be able to have an abortion because she wants to have a boy rather than a girl baby?  #feminism

I suspect not many doctors would perform an abortion simply based on gender selection.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 24, 2019, 04:47:38 pm
Bill Maher is not a liberal. He's not progressive at all. He's a scorch-the-earth libertarian that wants to watch the world burn and makes good money doing it.

He believes in the 1st amendment, that doesn't make him a libertarian, it means he's an American and believes in liberalism.  A liberal that doesn't go along with all the trigger warning, safe space ultra-PC nonsense is still a liberal.  Not everyone you disagree with is satan trying to destroy the world.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 24, 2019, 04:55:10 pm
I suspect not many doctors would perform an abortion simply based on gender selection.

Shame on any doctor that does not "recognize her right to choose an abortion regardless of the reason", says the House of Commons! ;)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2019, 05:03:52 pm
Shame on any doctor that does not "recognize her right to choose an abortion regardless of the reason", says the House of Commons! ;)

I hasten to remind you that doctors perform surgical procedures, including abortions, not politicians.


 In 2007, the Executive of the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada (SOGC) issued a statement that medical technologies for the sole purpose of gender identification in pregnancy should not be used to accommodate societal preferences, and that the SOGC does not support termination of pregnancy on the basis of gender. The College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario and the College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia also echoed the SOGC’s view. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 24, 2019, 05:18:09 pm
Member waldo, do you believe a woman should be able to have an abortion because she wants to have a boy rather than a girl baby?  #feminism
Shame on any doctor that does not "recognize her right to choose an abortion regardless of the reason", says the House of Commons! ;)

member PG, are you claiming that's the reason that all parties members (other than the CPC) rose to applaud in the HOC... and the reason CPC members remained seated, steadfast and mute? Is that what you're saying?

by the by, in Canada do women have to provide a reason to obtain an abortion? What does being pro-choice mean to you?

do you interpret/understand sex-selection abortion to be prevalent in Canada? Do you interpret/understand if medical agencies have practice/policy in place in this regard?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 24, 2019, 05:26:48 pm
Member waldo, do you believe a woman should be able to have an abortion because she wants to have a boy rather than a girl baby?  #feminism

This is a question I could never understand.  Why be pro-choice if you think you have a right to question the choice? 

A woman should be able to have an abortion for whatever reason she likes.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 24, 2019, 05:59:44 pm
Quote
In 2007, the Executive of the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada (SOGC) issued a statement that medical technologies for the sole purpose of gender identification in pregnancy should not be used to accommodate societal preferences, and that the SOGC does not support termination of pregnancy on the basis of gender. The College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario and the College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia also echoed the SOGC’s view.

So these folks are in contempt of Parliament because they don't agree?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 24, 2019, 06:04:07 pm
Seems to me it is a pretty empty gesture, they are just kicking the can to the medical profession.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 24, 2019, 06:07:09 pm
Somebody should ask the SOGC if they support the termination of a pregnancy on the basis of finding the father in bed with someone else.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 24, 2019, 06:14:20 pm
Somebody should ask the SOGC if they support the termination of a pregnancy on the basis of finding the father in bed with someone else.

If you support it for any reason, you have to support it for every reason.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 24, 2019, 06:38:15 pm
If you support it for any reason, you have to support it for every reason.

I agree.  That's why I find the notion of vetting a choice such a strange one.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 24, 2019, 07:02:18 pm
I agree.  That's why I find the notion of vetting a choice such a strange one.

I guess doctors have choices too.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 24, 2019, 07:10:30 pm
I guess doctors have choices too.

They could choose to be a plumber.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on August 24, 2019, 07:12:59 pm
::)

So just to be clear, You're of the opinion that people can't evolve from opinions that haven't aged well?

If you were on record of being against Gay marriage in 2005, you can't suddenly say you're for it now and not receive political blowback.
Has Scheer changed his position? Afaik, he hasn’t said so. You’re making an assumption.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on August 24, 2019, 07:17:00 pm
I also expect my PM and anyone in government to actually be actively in favour of human rights, not just put up with them because they have to.   Being a bigot excludes you from holding office, in my opinion, so I like to know what their personal views actually are.
Except freedom of religion. You actively reject that human right. So I guess you just mean the human rights that you agree with.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 24, 2019, 08:46:54 pm
This is a question I could never understand.  Why be pro-choice if you think you have a right to question the choice? 

A woman should be able to have an abortion for whatever reason she likes.

Really?  "My health is in jeopardy" is as ethical a choice to kill the unborn as "i don't want a girl/boy"?

I believe that women should able to control their own bodies, but when that body is connected to another body that was created through the woman's own willful choices, well things get a lot more complex.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 24, 2019, 08:48:21 pm
If you support it for any reason, you have to support it for every reason.

Why?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 24, 2019, 08:54:16 pm
Really?  "My health is in jeopardy" is as ethical a choice to kill the unborn as "i don't want a girl/boy"?

I believe that women should able to control their own bodies, but when that body is connected to another body that was created through the woman's own willful choices, well things get a lot more complex.

Do you think only women whose health is in jeopardy should be allowed to have abortions?  It's one view on the issue, but not one I suscribe to.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2019, 08:59:30 pm
Really?  "My health is in jeopardy" is as ethical a choice to kill the unborn as "i don't want a girl/boy"?

I believe that women should able to control their own bodies, but when that body is connected to another body that was created through the woman's own willful choices, well things get a lot more complex.

"the woman's own wilful choices"? It takes two to tango and you just contradicted yourself. Next...
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 24, 2019, 09:02:51 pm
Do you think only women whose health is in jeopardy should be allowed to have abortions?  It's one view on the issue, but not one I subscribe to.

No, I think there's a variety of reasons where abortions are ethical.  But i don't want to this thread to become an abortion debate.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 24, 2019, 09:06:19 pm
"the woman's own wilful choices"? It takes two to tango...

Yes, it also takes the choices of two to create a baby, unless the woman is raped.

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 24, 2019, 09:06:34 pm
No, I think there's a variety of reasons where abortions are ethical.  But i don't want to this thread to become an abortion debate.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2019, 09:45:02 pm
Yes, it also takes the choices of two to create a baby, unless the woman is raped.

So in either case why do you suggest the woman should be left unwanted outcome?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 24, 2019, 10:03:46 pm
So in either case why do you suggest the woman should be left unwanted outcome?

Well, why do you suggest the baby should be left with the unwanted outcome (death)?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2019, 10:33:08 pm
Well, why do you suggest the baby should be left with the unwanted outcome (death)?

Here's the deal, I would be happy if no woman ever had to deal with an unwanted pregnancy again. But failing that I would prefer they are dealt with in a hospital with a proper doctor than a knitting needle artist! Get it?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 24, 2019, 11:42:41 pm
They could choose to be a plumber.

They could but you can’t just go in and demand any other surgery you want. Women claiming the right to use abortions to avoid having female children seems really weird to me. Talk about brainwashed.

And if that is the reason, the public purse sure as hell shouldn’t be paying for it.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 24, 2019, 11:45:25 pm
Why?

It’s only logical.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 25, 2019, 09:42:00 am
They could but you can’t just go in and demand any other surgery you want. Women claiming the right to use abortions to avoid having female children seems really weird to me. Talk about brainwashed.

And if that is the reason, the public purse sure as hell shouldn’t be paying for it.

I'm pro choice, and to me that means I don't get to decide which choice is valid and which choice isn't.  Reasons for the choice is another argument.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 10:06:58 am
I'm pro choice, and to me that means I don't get to decide which choice is valid and which choice isn't.  Reasons for the choice is another argument.

Granted but you should have a say in which choices you have to pay for. Not everything in our medical system is free. Never has been.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 25, 2019, 10:26:52 am
Here's the deal, I would be happy if no woman ever had to deal with an unwanted pregnancy again. But failing that I would prefer they are dealt with in a hospital with a proper doctor than a knitting needle artist! Get it?

I'll respond to you when you learn to speak to me like a respectful adult speaks to other adults.  Get it?

I don't know what the heck is wrong with people like you and cybercoma, but you guys are filled with an awful lot of resentment and anger/hatred, especially towards those who don't share the same views as you.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 25, 2019, 10:28:17 am
It’s only logical.

No it isn't.  Some reasons are more ethical than others.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 25, 2019, 10:29:27 am
Granted but you should have a say in which choices you have to pay for. Not everything in our medical system is free. Never has been.

No, I disagree.  If you do, and I do, and so does everyone else, then what price choice at all?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 11:38:14 am
No, I disagree.  If you do, and I do, and so does everyone else, then what price choice at all?

There are all kinds of things that our health system the government doesn't pay for, that's why many people carry extended medical coverage. You may have the right to have something, but that doesn't mean you automatically have the right for someone else to pay for it. We don't have the right to expect others to pay for all of our choices.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 25, 2019, 12:00:39 pm
There are all kinds of things that our health system the government doesn't pay for, that's why many people carry extended medical coverage. You may have the right to have something, but that doesn't mean you automatically have the right for someone else to pay for it. We don't have the right to expect others to pay for all of our choices.

If the powers that be decide that abortions are not covered, then so be it.  I would not agree with them saying just some abortions are not covered, based on why it was being done. 

A means test would be okay.  No reason to pay for one for someone who has plenty of money to pay for their own.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 12:06:15 pm
If the powers that be decide that abortions are not covered, then so be it.  I would not agree with them saying just some abortions are not covered, based on why it was being done. 

A means test would be okay.  No reason to pay for one for someone who has plenty of money to pay for their own.

To me, abortion because of gender should be classified as cosmetic surgery, and not the kind you have for burns or other major trauma.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2019, 12:12:21 pm
I'll respond to you when you learn to speak to me like a respectful adult speaks to other adults.  Get it?

I don't know what the heck is wrong with people like you and cybercoma, but you guys are filled with an awful lot of resentment and anger/hatred, especially towards those who don't share the same views as you.

So my wishing for proper healthcare for women having an abortion is somehow "wrong" and/or "disrespectful"? Not sure where the hell you're coming from there. I'll just leave it there.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 25, 2019, 12:17:01 pm
To me, abortion because of gender should be classified as cosmetic surgery, and not the kind you have for burns or other major trauma.

Again, you're getting people to explain their choice, and denying an abortion based on what you think of the choice.  I can't agree with that. 

I might agree with you on your opinion of the choice, but I don't think one can claim to be pro-choice if one makes distinctions. 

To my mind, the question of why should never be asked.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 12:31:30 pm
Again, you're getting people to explain their choice, and denying an abortion based on what you think of the choice.  I can't agree with that. 

I might agree with you on your opinion of the choice, but I don't think one can claim to be pro-choice if one makes distinctions. 

To my mind, the question of why should never be asked.

What does the public purse have to do with choice? If you decide to abort a fetus just because of its gender, the issue isn't economics.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on August 25, 2019, 12:50:27 pm
And if that is the reason, the public purse sure as hell shouldn’t be paying for it.

The problem with that argument is that abortions become a luxury of the rich. Poor families are forced through economic circumstances to grow to unsupportable sizes, further propagating class separation.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 01:21:58 pm
The problem with that argument is that abortions become a luxury of the rich. Poor families are forced through economic circumstances to grow to unsupportable sizes, further propagating class separation.

If you are having an abortion based on the foetus gender, it isn't because you are poor.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2019, 01:32:10 pm
If you are having an abortion based on the foetus gender, it isn't because you are poor.

And if you're not having an abortion and at the same time concerned how you will feed the child it probably is because you're poor.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 01:44:39 pm
And if you're not having an abortion and at the same time concerned how you will feed the child it probably is because you're poor.

I never said they can't have one, just that if they are aborting a foetus just because of its gender, it isn't because they are poor. Boy children eat too. Teenage boys eat a hell of a lot. When our son came back to live at home for awhile, our grocery bill about doubled.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 25, 2019, 01:45:30 pm
If you are having an abortion based on the foetus gender, it isn't because you are poor.

If people know that certain reasons are forbidden, why wouldn’t they just lie?   Even if what you’re saying is reasonable, there is no workable solution.   Unless you want lie detectors for women who want an abortion?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 01:47:46 pm
If people know that certain reasons are forbidden, why wouldn’t they just lie?   Even if what you’re saying is reasonable, there is no workable solution.   Unless you want lie detectors for women who want an abortion?
I think if you have an ultrasound and suddenly decide to abort a healthy foetus, the reason is pretty clear. Still you can do it, just don't expect someone else to pay for it.

To me, that doesn't meet the definition of "Healthcare".
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 25, 2019, 01:48:32 pm
I think if you have an ultrasound and suddenly decide to abort a healthy foetus, the reason is pretty clear.

Really?  What if they change their mind about wanting a baby?  Couldn’t that happen after an ultrasound?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 01:52:26 pm
Really?  What if they change their mind about wanting a baby?  Couldn’t that happen after an ultrasound?

Sure, but why should someone else pay for it?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 01:59:36 pm
Professional guidelines in Canada dictate that no physician in Canada can terminate a pregnancy over 24 weeks without serious indications that the life of the mother is at risk or that the fetus has very serious malformations.

Who here disagrees with that?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on August 25, 2019, 02:03:17 pm
Really?  "My health is in jeopardy" is as ethical a choice to kill the unborn as "i don't want a girl/boy"?

I believe that women should able to control their own bodies, but when that body is connected to another body that was created through the woman's own willful choices, well things get a lot more complex.

I find your use of the term "willful choices" offensive.
You were all about men being very careful not to cause pregnancy ... but if an 'accident' happens, suddenly it's the fault of women's "willful choices"?

How about this: If a man doesn't believe a woman should have an abortion, he should keep it in his pants except for wanted pregnancies. Because if he doesn't, he has no right to denigrate a woman for "willful choices".
IE, Men can't go flicking their dick around, causing unwanted pregnancies, blaming the women for pregnancy, and claiming they don't believe  abortion is justified due to women's "willful choices".

There's a whole fat load of hypocrisy and misogyny in that.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 25, 2019, 02:13:15 pm
To me, abortion because of gender should be classified as cosmetic surgery, and not the kind you have for burns or other major trauma.

The problem is people will simply lie if some reasons are covered and some aren't, unless it's something like all non-medical reasons are not covered and all medical reasons are.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 02:21:38 pm
The problem is people will simply lie if some reasons are covered and some aren't, unless it's something like all non-medical reasons are not covered and all medical reasons are.

In BC you can't book an ultrasound exam or extend a routine exam for the purpose of determining gender. As far as I am concerned, they shouldn't be allowed to release the gender until after 24 weeks.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 25, 2019, 02:46:28 pm
The problem with that argument is that abortions become a luxury of the rich. Poor families are forced through economic circumstances to grow to unsupportable sizes, further propagating class separation.

You're not wrong, that's what would happen.  What is disgusting and tragic is that in New York City, there are more black babies that are aborted than are born each year.  Think about that for a minute.

I think when an abortion is performed the mother and father should be required by law to attend sex education sessions and learn how to properly use birth control and how to access it.

100% of unwanted pregnancies can be prevented (besides cases of r.ape). There are NO excuses.  If women used the pill, every man used a condom, and every man pulled out before ejaculating (and if he didn't after being told by the woman to do so he could be charged with ra.pe), and they used these 3 methods properly, the unwanted pregnancy and abortion rate would be virtually zero.

Unfortunately we live in a society filled with selfish and irresponsible people who believe sex involving ejaculation inside a va.gina is a human right, abortion for any reason is a right, the unborn have no rights, and where many feel they don't need to use multiple methods of birth control properly during sex.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 02:59:05 pm
What bothers me about things like,

Quote
“that the House of Commons reiterate that a woman’s body belongs to her and her alone, and recognize her right to choose an abortion regardless of the reason.”

is they are total bullshit. Parliament has done nothing on the subject of abortion since the 1988 SC decision and doesn't want to touch it with a barge poll, except make self serving politics with declarations that mean SFA. All the abortion law and policy in this country has been made by the courts and the medical profession and our parliamentarians are quite happy keeping things that way while they play politics with it.

Lot of hypocritical clowns IMO.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2019, 03:03:20 pm
You're not wrong, that's what would happen.  What is disgusting and tragic is that in New York City, there are more black babies that are aborted than are born each year.  Think about that for a minute.

I think when an abortion is performed the mother and father should be required by law to attend sex education sessions and learn how to properly use birth control and how to access it.

100% of unwanted pregnancies can be prevented (besides cases of r.ape). There are NO excuses.  If women used the pill, every man used a condom, and every man pulled out before ejaculating (and if he didn't after being told by the woman to do so he could be charged with ra.pe), and they used these 3 methods properly, the unwanted pregnancy and abortion rate would be virtually zero.

Unfortunately we live in a society filled with selfish and irresponsible people who believe sex involving ejaculation inside a va.gina is a human right, abortion for any reason is a right, the unborn have no rights, and where many feel they don't need to use multiple methods of birth control properly during sex.

You're proposed rape charge is a little whacky but yes, birth control is certainly preferable to abortion. The Black situation in NY you speak of is once again parallels the economics.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2019, 03:05:50 pm
What bothers me about things like,

is they are total bullshit. Parliament has done nothing on the subject of abortion since the 1988 SC decision and doesn't want to touch it with a barge poll, except make self serving politics with declarations that mean SFA. All the abortion law and policy in this country has been made by the courts and the medical profession and our parliamentarians are quite happy keeping things that way while they play politics with it.

Lot of hypocritical clowns IMO.

Where is it "politics" to leave the decision on abortion "between a woman and her doctor"? That wasn't a political decision it was a court decision.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 03:12:45 pm
Where is it "politics" to leave the decision on abortion "between a woman and her doctor"? That wasn't a political decision it was a court decision.

That's what I said. Parliamentarians stand up and demand grandiose declarations in the House while knowing they never have been, or ever will be, responsible for anything. If that isn't political, I don't know what is.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2019, 03:20:22 pm
That's what I said. Parliamentarians stand up and demand grandiose declarations in the House while knowing they never have been, or ever will be, responsible for anything. If that isn't political, I don't know what is.

Voting for Scheer is something I wouldn't do for many reasons, but the possibility that his party would reopen this issue, based on what he said while campaigning is one of the bigger ones.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 03:25:57 pm
Voting for Scheer is something I wouldn't do for many reasons, but the possibility that his party would reopen this issue, based on what he said while campaigning is one of the bigger ones.

They can't reopen it, the SC has ruled and healthcare is a provincial jurisdiction. It's all bullshit.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 03:44:12 pm
Canada is a country that likes to be governed from the centre. Parties lean left or right but if the deviate too far from the centre, they get punished.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2019, 03:54:56 pm
They can't reopen it, the SC has ruled and healthcare is a provincial jurisdiction. It's all bullshit.

They can open it anytime they want. Mulroney tried in '89 but he failed.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 04:14:06 pm
They can open it anytime they want. Mulroney tried in '89 but he failed.
It failed then and would fail again. In fact it would be an even bigger fail and would cost them if they tried.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 25, 2019, 04:29:50 pm
They can't reopen it, the SC has ruled and healthcare is a provincial jurisdiction. It's all bullshit.

The Green Party has in their official federal platform that they would bring in free universal pharmacare, dental care, and free post-secondary education for all.  May thinks she's Bernie Sanders, yet doesn't seem to understand that education and healthcare is provincial jurisdiction.  ???

https://www.greenparty.ca/en/our-vision/health-care

https://www.greenparty.ca/en/our-vision/support-our-students
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 25, 2019, 05:47:19 pm
What does the public purse have to do with choice? If you decide to abort a fetus just because of its gender, the issue isn't economics.

My point is that the person with the purse strings does not get to ask why.  Nor should they.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 25, 2019, 05:48:10 pm
The Green Party has in their official federal platform that they would bring in free universal pharmacare, dental care, and free post-secondary education for all.  May thinks she's Bernie Sanders, yet doesn't seem to understand that education and healthcare is provincial jurisdiction.  ???

https://www.greenparty.ca/en/our-vision/health-care

https://www.greenparty.ca/en/our-vision/support-our-students

The Feds can provide funding to the provinces to cover these things.   But this is the Scheer thread, not the May thread.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 06:05:34 pm
My point is that the person with the purse strings does not get to ask why.  Nor should they.

Then put some measures in place to ensure abortions are not carried out on the basis of gender.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 25, 2019, 06:13:23 pm
Then put some measures in place to ensure abortions are not carried out on the basis of gender.

We appear to be talking on two different paths here.  I am pro choice, and do not believe one can be pro choice if one wants to vet the choice.  It's like freedom of speech.  If one is for it, then one doesn't get to decide which speech one is for. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 06:29:20 pm
We appear to be talking on two different paths here.  I am pro choice, and do not believe one can be pro choice if one wants to vet the choice.  It's like freedom of speech.  If one is for it, then one doesn't get to decide which speech one is for.

We already vet the choice, abortions are not performed beyond 24 weeks, are you in favour of allowing them at any time?

I'm surprised so called feminists would support abortions solely on the basis of the foetus being female.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 25, 2019, 06:39:47 pm
We appear to be talking on two different paths here.  I am pro choice, and do not believe one can be pro choice if one wants to vet the choice.  It's like freedom of speech.  If one is for it, then one doesn't get to decide which speech one is for.

There are all sorts of limitations on free speech, such as libel and slander, harassment, 3rd party political campaigning etc., lobbying etc.

There should also be limitations on abortions, and thankfully medical boards have some of these in place.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 25, 2019, 06:52:47 pm
We already vet the choice, abortions are not performed beyond 24 months, are you in favour of allowing them at any time?

I'm surprised so called feminists would support abortions solely on the basis of the foetus being female.

Ask yourself why we allow abortions at all.  I suggest it is so that a women cannot be forced to undergo a pregnancy, and all the related medical procedures, and then have to go through labour, and end up with a child she does not want.

What pro life people say is that this should not be allowed, as the foetus is a sacred life and should be brought to term in every case.  I disagree with that but respect the right to the view.

What you are saying is that we should allow a women to choose to have an abortion for the reasons I stated above, which means we put the rights of the woman above those of the foetus, but then, at some point, we say "Hang on a minute!  Why do do you want an abortion?", and based on the answer, decide to completely reverse our position.  Put the rights of the foetus above those of the woman, and force her to undergo a pregnancy, endure all the related medical procedures, go through labour, and end up with a child she does not want.  Just because you don't like the choice.  You don't.  That is not pro choice.

As to your question, I see 24 weeks as arbitrary, (24 months seems a little barbaric) but as you have stated, at some point the medical professionals required might not want to perform an abortion due to the viability of the foetus.  I would not advocate sanctions for any that did. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 25, 2019, 06:54:14 pm
There are all sorts of limitations on free speech, such as libel and slander, harassment, 3rd party political campaigning etc., lobbying etc.

There should also be limitations on abortions, and thankfully medical boards have some of these in place.

I think wilber's 24 month limit is one I can support.

Unless it's a real brat.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 07:42:04 pm
I think wilber's 24 month limit is one I can support.

Unless it's a real brat.

Changed it but my point still stands, we do vet abortions already.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 25, 2019, 07:44:44 pm
Ask yourself why we allow abortions at all.  I suggest it is so that a women cannot be forced to undergo a pregnancy, and all the related medical procedures, and then have to go through labour, and end up with a child she does not want.



Well she did want it until she found out it was a girl. Even if you support abortions for such reasons, there is absolutely no reason for society to pay for them.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: bcsapper on August 25, 2019, 07:53:45 pm
Well she did want it until she found out it was a girl. Even if you support abortions for such reasons, there is absolutely no reason for society to pay for them.

We're getting to the panto stage now.  I'll say one thing more then give you the last word on this particular argument.

It's irrelevant to me why she wants one, and it's irrelevant when she decides she wants one. 

As I said earlier, she can have one if she decides after catching the father in bed with her sister.  Or if she find the foetus has Down's Syndrome. Or one leg longer than the other.  Or the gene for Cystic Fybrosis.  Any reason.  She doesn't have to check with me.

Society should not have the right to ask for reasons.  They can pay or not pay, but not based on reasons.  As far as I am concerned.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 26, 2019, 07:18:31 am
c'mon member wilber... member PG - one would think you'd preface your positions with actual facts/data, starting with the prevalence of so-called, 'gender-selection abortion'. What are the numbers/estimates? Surely this isn't just {yet} another Scheer/CPC reach-around anti-abortion ploy - surely!

speaking of some of this distraction from Scheer:

Quote from: Maryam Monsef - Minister for Women and Gender Equality
Canadian women and allies are afraid and deserve to know Scheer and Conservative Party of Canada will see women’s rights as human rights and not reopen debate or {attempt to} find a back door. Canadians — and Canadian women in particular — deserve to know whether or not the Conservative Party of Canada would take us backwards by restricting or undermining a woman’s right to choose

during 2017's CPC leadership campaign, weak Andy stated:
Quote
he would like to see MPs once again consider a 2016 bill that would have made it an offence to kill or injure a fetus when committing an offence against the mother
... most clearly {yet} another CPC ploy to attempt to extend legal status to a fetus.

as a precursor to his current CPC leader position advocating for backbencher's to bring forward, "initiatives of their conscience":
Quote
As Speaker of the House Andrew Scheer ruled in favour of Mark Warawa’s right to bring up statements on his failed motion, M-408 (asking the government to condemn sex-selective abortion) overruling the party whip, Gordon O’Connor. At the time, O’Connor had warned Warawa not to bring this issue up any longer since the House Procedure and Affairs Committee ruled that his motion could not come to the House, but Scheer overruled him saying it was his right to speak on whatever issue he wished

Quote from: during 2017 CPC leadership campaign - Andrew Scheer
We don't tell anyone that they have to park their conscience or their faith at the door. It's important that the next leader of our party not only allows that, but celebrates that tradition of having free votes on matters of conscience

that's the Scheer/CPC weasel-wording, that's the end-around, reach-around, backdoor strategy that allows Scheer to posture that a Scheer/CPC cabinet wouldn't initiate... cause they'll just rely on backbenchers to bring those anti-abortion postions/bills forward
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 26, 2019, 07:38:18 am
The Green Party has in their official federal platform that they would bring in free universal pharmacare, dental care, and free post-secondary education for all.  May thinks she's Bernie Sanders, yet doesn't seem to understand that education and healthcare is provincial jurisdiction.

why would weak Andy/CPC be against National Pharmacare? Canada is the only country in the world with universal healthcare... that doesn't include a pharmacare component... in 2018, Canadians spent $38 billion on prescription medicines... Canada ranks 3rd in the world in per-capita spending on medicines. As a CPC alternative to National Pharmacare, Scheer stated:
Quote
A Conservative government would take steps to lower drug prices and improve access for those who can't afford it, addressing "gaps" in the system

contrast that Scheer/CPC nothingness to the: Statement from the Government of Canada on the Final Report  from the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare
Quote
June 12, 2019 - Ottawa, ON - Government of Canada

Today, the Honourable Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Minister of Health, will table in Parliament the final report from the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare. She released the following statement:

“Our Government is pleased to receive the final report from the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare. We would like to thank Dr. Eric Hoskins and each of the Council members for their dedication, enthusiasm, and leadership on this complex issue. We would also like to recognize the important contributions from all Canadians who took the time to provide input to and to participate in discussions with the Council over the past year—patients, provincial and territorial governments, Indigenous leaders and peoples, health care providers, stakeholder organizations, and academics.

Canadians face some of the highest prescription drug prices in the world. This influences Canadians’ access to important medications and the sustainability of Canada’s health care system. That is why, in Budget 2018, we announced the creation of the Council to make recommendations on how to best move forward on implementing a national pharmacare program.

Over the coming months, we will carefully review the Council’s final report and its recommendations. We look forward to continuing to work closely and collaboratively with the provinces and territories and with our partners and stakeholders as we consider next steps. We will also continue moving forward with other important initiatives, including those announced in Budget 2019, to improve access to prescription drugs and to make medications more affordable for all Canadians.

Our Government remains committed to implementing national pharmacare in a manner that is affordable for Canadians and their families, employers, and governments. We know that our existing patchwork of drug coverage is not working well, leading to poorer health for some and higher costs for us all. We have to do better. Canadians should never have to choose between paying for prescription drugs and putting food on the table.”

A PRESCRIPTION FOR CANADA: ACHIEVING PHARMACARE FOR ALL - Final Report of the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare - June 2019 (http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/6151260/Final-Report-of-the-Advisory-Council-on-the.pdf)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on August 26, 2019, 09:45:12 am
Sure, but why should someone else pay for it?
What do you think happens when people can't get an abortion because they can't afford it? Do you think they just go, "I guess I'll just have a baby instead?"
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 26, 2019, 11:18:26 am
Except freedom of religion. You actively reject that human right. So I guess you just mean the human rights that you agree with.

I believe anyone can believe any religion they want.  How am I against religious freedom?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 26, 2019, 12:40:54 pm
What do you think happens when people can't get an abortion because they can't afford it? Do you think they just go, "I guess I'll just have a baby instead?"

Do you have a problem with English? If someone suddenly decides to get an abortion when they find out a foetus is female, they aren't doing it because they can't afford it. We don't get any other "free" surgeries on demand just because we want them. Freedom of choice doesn't mean government has to pay for all your choices.

Simple soiution, doctors won't do abortions after 24 weeks unless medically necessary, don't allow the gender to be revealed until after 24 weeks.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 26, 2019, 01:01:08 pm
As long as we keep Scheer away from 24 Sussex we can keep abortion chatter on political forums and such, and leave the real discussion between a woman and her doctor.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 26, 2019, 02:25:37 pm
Simple solution, doctors won't do abortions after 24 weeks unless medically necessary, don't allow the gender to be revealed until after 24 weeks.

member wilber! Still waiting for your stats/numbers on 'sex-selection abortions' in Canada... still waiting...

please stop your mansplaining and have a dose of reality:

(https://i.imgur.com/SVFt6jm.png)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 26, 2019, 02:30:46 pm
" Canadian women and allies are afraid and deserve to know Scheer and Conservative Party of Canada will see women’s rights as human rights and not reopen debate or {attempt to} find a back door. Canadians — and Canadian women in particular — deserve to know whether or not the Conservative Party of Canada would take us backwards by restricting or undermining a woman’s right to choose"

Unborn baby's rights aren't human rights?  Hey!

Quote
during 2017's CPC leadership campaign, weak Andy stated:  ... most clearly {yet} another CPC ploy to attempt to extend legal status to a fetus.

How dare he!  What a monster!

Quote
We don't tell anyone that they have to park their conscience or their faith at the door. It's important that the next leader of our party not only allows that, but celebrates that tradition of having free votes on matters of conscience

See that's where Andy and the CPC are full of BS.  If it were Muslims trying to bring their faith into Parliamentary legislation, we can guess how they'd react.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 26, 2019, 02:37:11 pm
member wilber! Still waiting for your stats/numbers on 'sex-selection abortions' in Canada... still waiting...



How do you know if no one will ask the question? It is serious enough that BC will not schedule an ultrasound for the purpose of determining gender, nor will they extend a scheduled session for the purpose. So yes, it is seen as an issue by the medical profession in some parts of the country.

So waldo, do you approve of abortion as a means to manipulate the gender of children and do you think government should pay for it?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 26, 2019, 02:43:31 pm
What do you think happens when people can't get an abortion because they can't afford it? Do you think they just go, "I guess I'll just have a baby instead?"

We are supposed to feel sorry for sexists who want to kill their unborn baby in a shady establishment simply because they don't like the baby's gender?  At what point do should we feel sorry for the unborn baby, who is dead due to sexism and has no say in the matter?

If a person is such a piece of crap that they would kill a healthy unborn baby because it isn't the sex they want and then stupid enough to do it in a back-alley establishment, maybe they deserve whatever fate they've made for themselves.  But again, people only feel sorry for the woman in this case, and would have the audacity to call ME cruel!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 26, 2019, 02:53:06 pm
Because of the restrictions in BC, some people have been going to the US for ultrasounds to determine gender. Kind of blows the "can't afford to have a child" argument out of the water.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 26, 2019, 03:02:10 pm
We are supposed to feel sorry for sexists who want to kill their unborn baby in a shady establishment simply because they don't like the baby's gender?  At what point do should we feel sorry for the unborn baby, who is dead due to sexism and has no say in the matter?

If a person is such a piece of crap that they would kill a healthy unborn baby because it isn't the sex they want and then stupid enough to do it in a back-alley establishment, maybe they deserve whatever fate they've made for themselves.  But again, people only feel sorry for the woman in this case, and would have the audacity to call ME cruel!

Perhaps you should go and preach to the ethnic community who have the overwhelming number of genetic specific abortions and not attack the procedure in general. Better to have them in hospitals than back alleys, once again.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 26, 2019, 03:17:40 pm
Perhaps you should go and preach to the ethnic community who have the overwhelming number of genetic specific abortions and not attack the procedure in general.

Who has most of them is irrelevant, in all cases gender abortions are wrong and shouldn't be allowed, and certainly shouldn't be funded on the taxpayer's dime.

Quote
Better to have them in hospitals than back alleys, once again.

Ra.pe is going to happen no matter what, better to have them in hospitals than back-alleys?

Pedophilia is going to happen no matter what, better to have them in hospitals than back-alleys?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 26, 2019, 03:24:12 pm


Ra.pe is going to happen no matter what, better to have them in hospitals than back-alleys?

Pedophilia is going to happen no matter what, better to have them in hospitals than back-alleys?
[/quote]

Your comparisons are ridiculous but hey, I'll humor you. Yes it would be better to have rape and pedophilia to happen in hospitals than back alleys since proper medical would be available.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: ?Impact on August 26, 2019, 05:22:46 pm
Concerning gender linked abortions, are there any valid medical reasons for them? There certainly are genetic abnormalities that are X-linked, Y-linked, and mitochondrial inheritance. I haven't studied them in detail, but there are certainly varying degrees of severity and probability of inheritance. I don't know if all can be detected by other means.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 27, 2019, 07:32:49 am
do you interpret/understand sex-selection abortion to be prevalent in Canada? Do you interpret/understand if medical agencies have practice/policy in place in this regard?
c'mon member wilber... member PG - one would think you'd preface your positions with actual facts/data, starting with the prevalence of so-called, 'gender-selection abortion'. What are the numbers/estimates? Surely this isn't just {yet} another Scheer/CPC reach-around anti-abortion ploy - surely!
member wilber! Still waiting for your stats/numbers on 'sex-selection abortions' in Canada... still waiting...
Because of the restrictions in BC, some people have been going to the US for ultrasounds to determine gender. Kind of blows the "can't afford to have a child" argument out of the water.

"some people" - how Trumpian!  ;D How many is a "some"?


So waldo, do you approve of abortion as a means to manipulate the gender of children and do you think government should pay for it?

member wilber... you haven't provided a reference point - for some reason you won't/can't put forward numbers/stats! How many is a "some"?

by the by, in Canada do women have to provide a reason to obtain an abortion? What does being pro-choice mean to you?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 27, 2019, 09:06:56 am
Wald

It happens and it doesn’t matter how many. Stop slithering and answer the question.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 27, 2019, 09:39:59 am
Some good thread drift.

Even JT hasn't really tried to make hay on abortion yet. Still just the tired rhetoric about cuts.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on August 27, 2019, 09:58:56 am
Do you have a problem with English? If someone suddenly decides to get an abortion when they find out a foetus is female, they aren't doing it because they can't afford it. We don't get any other "free" surgeries on demand just because we want them. Freedom of choice doesn't mean government has to pay for all your choices.

Simple soiution, doctors won't do abortions after 24 weeks unless medically necessary, don't allow the gender to be revealed until after 24 weeks.
So you might want to simmer down a bit because I've actually done population research in this area. Before abortion was safe and widely available, you know what they did in parts of Asia? They killed their infant daughters, especially higher order births (ie, they already had one daughter or a son). And they didn't bring these infants to the lake and drown them. Often times they deny them resources, for instance, starving them to death or not getting them medical treatment when they were sick. It was drawn out and torturous.

So again, I'm wondering what exactly you think happens when abortion isn't available. People will find another means to an end. That's what happens. You don't solve gender-selective abortion by restricting abortion. You solve it by integrating people into a more liberal culture that condemns this behaviour and values girls.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 27, 2019, 11:24:51 am
So you might want to simmer down a bit because I've actually done population research in this area. Before abortion was safe and widely available, you know what they did in parts of Asia? They killed their infant daughters, especially higher order births (ie, they already had one daughter or a son). And they didn't bring these infants to the lake and drown them. Often times they deny them resources, for instance, starving them to death or not getting them medical treatment when they were sick. It was drawn out and torturous.

So again, I'm wondering what exactly you think happens when abortion isn't available. People will find another means to an end. That's what happens. You don't solve gender-selective abortion by restricting abortion. You solve it by integrating people into a more liberal culture that condemns this behaviour and values girls.

This is Canada, not some third world country. You go to jail for those things here. You want to pay for abortions so people won't go to jail for abusing a child just because it is female. What kind of attitude is that?
Four of my six grand children are girls and I wouldn't trade them for anything. Anyone who would abort a foetus just because of its gender or abuse a child just because it is female is lower than dirt as far as I am concerned. I hope I have made myself clear.


I'll ask you the same question as waldo. Do you approve of abortion as a means to manipulate the gender of children and do you think government should pay for it?
Simple questions that just require a yes or no answer.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 27, 2019, 11:25:32 am
Some good thread drift.

Even JT hasn't really tried to make hay on abortion yet. Still just the tired rhetoric about cuts.

The Libs don’t have to lift a finger when the Cons themselves are keeping the issue alive and well....

Alain Rayes, the MP for Richmond–Arthabaska tasked with recruitment, has been informing candidates and telling the media that the abortion issue is dead and that MPs will be prevented from reopening it — information that Scheer’s office suggested was news to them and a policy that caught social conservative groups working to elect Conservative “pro-life” candidates by surprise. (https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/alain-rayes-scheer-abortion_ca_5d646465e4b0641b2551c23d?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNhL3NlYXJjaD9xPXNjaGVlciZzb3VyY2U9bG1ucyZ0Ym09bndzJmJpaD02NjYmYml3PTEwMjQmY2xpZW50PXNhZmFyaSZwcm1kPW5pdiZobD1lbi1HQiZ2ZWQ9MmFoVUtFd2puLXBDMHVhUGtBaFhwSHpRSUhUcS1DbWNRX0FVb0FYb0VDQUFRQkE&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFejVjPPN2kfQaZkzaABB6yHBdZGjyoGIHoNpa081pOXfNXqS92E8jYrvkMzCS1Oor1vLA0K0kVck-zrcSEzBLwgycjA6Urs0l-DQqi6AS3D5sEKtYQRvF5-U53gzSFRFMkdgi14XnLMo1HSbI54iOpvh84KKD8ndblLshsJDDhw)


Quote
Rayes told Le Journal de Montréal in an interview published over the weekend that “Andrew Scheer has confirmed that he will not allow even one of his MPs to present an anti-abortion bill.”

Late Monday afternoon, he told HuffPost that he was “sorry for any confusion.”

“If I had a different interpretation of what he [Scheer] said, it’s my error and the words of the leader prevail,” he wrote in an email.

Quebec CPC candidates in Quebec were counting on the CPC not allowing abortion legislation...   but the party/Scheer may be saying something different in French than in English. 

Oops.

Quote
Alissa Golob, the co-founder of the anti-abortion group RightNow, believes, as many other Conservatives do and as Scheer himself seemed to outline, that this pledge means only that his cabinet would not reopen the issue. Her group is actively working to nominate and elect anti-abortion candidates who can introduce legislation that would allow for some abortion restrictions.

“I think there would be an outcry from a lot of Conservative MPs, even those who maybe aren’t fully pro-life, who would not agree with that decision made by the leader,” she told HuffPost, of a scenario where Tory MPs’ freedom of speech was restricted.

So Scheer says there will be no legislation on abortion...   but social conservatives think they can introduce anti-abortion legislation. 

What did I hear about “political suicide”?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on August 27, 2019, 11:50:56 am
I'll ask you the same question as waldo. Do you approve of abortion as a means to manipulate the gender of children and do you think government should pay for it?
Simple questions that just require a yes or no answer.
You're begging the question and haven't once addressed the issue that I raised with your position.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 27, 2019, 11:55:14 am
You're begging the question and haven't once addressed the issue that I raised with your position.
I addressed it. This is not some place in Asia.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 27, 2019, 02:42:58 pm
Before abortion was safe and widely available, you know what they did in parts of Asia? They killed their infant daughters, especially higher order births (ie, they already had one daughter or a son). And they didn't bring these infants to the lake and drown them. Often times they deny them resources, for instance, starving them to death or not getting them medical treatment when they were sick. It was drawn out and torturous.

So again, I'm wondering what exactly you think happens when abortion isn't available. People will find another means to an end. That's what happens. You don't solve gender-selective abortion by restricting abortion. You solve it by integrating people into a more liberal culture that condemns this behaviour and values girls.

If you kill a baby you should be put in jail for life for murder.  I'm sure gender-selected abortions done by people other than from developing countries.

This is like saying we should legalize assault rifles because people will just buy them on the street.

Ra.pe is going to happen no matter what, better to have them in hospitals than back-alleys?

Pedophilia is going to happen no matter what, better to have them in hospitals than back-alleys?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 27, 2019, 02:51:45 pm
Quote
I'm sure gender-selected abortions done by people other than from developing countries.
Probably
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 27, 2019, 02:52:37 pm
Quote
Ra.pe is going to happen no matter what, better to have them in hospitals than back-alleys?

Pedophilia is going to happen no matter what, better to have them in hospitals than back-alleys?

Why are you repeating the same idiotic comparisons that didn’t make any sense the first time?  Repeating something stupid doesn’t make it sound more smarter...   more intelligeter...   better.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 27, 2019, 03:08:12 pm
Probably

Not according to the actual statistics.

 In most of the world, between 103 and 107 boys are born for every 100 girls. Canadian-born women of non-South Asian ethnicity give birth to about 104 boys for every 100 girls.

Earlier research published by Dr. Wanigaratne’s group showed that women born in India, who already had two daughters, gave birth in Ontario to 196 boys for every 100 girls. The sex ratio increased significantly if the mothers had at least one abortion prior to the third birth. They also found that the male-biased ratio was driven by mothers whose mother tongue was Punjabi or Hindi and that the bias remained even after the mother resided in Canada for more than 10 years. The findings suggested the practice of sex selective abortion, which is common in India, is also happening in Canada.

https://www.stmichaelshospital.com/media/detail.php?source=hospital_news/2018/0621
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 27, 2019, 03:17:15 pm
Not according to the actual statistics.

 In most of the world, between 103 and 107 boys are born for every 100 girls. Canadian-born women of non-South Asian ethnicity give birth to about 104 boys for every 100 girls.

Earlier research published by Dr. Wanigaratne’s group showed that women born in India, who already had two daughters, gave birth in Ontario to 196 boys for every 100 girls. The sex ratio increased significantly if the mothers had at least one abortion prior to the third birth. They also found that the male-biased ratio was driven by mothers whose mother tongue was Punjabi or Hindi and that the bias remained even after the mother resided in Canada for more than 10 years. The findings suggested the practice of sex selective abortion, which is common in India, is also happening in Canada.

https://www.stmichaelshospital.com/media/detail.php?source=hospital_news/2018/0621

When I said probably, I meant it probably does happen outside of ethnic populations, but likely much rarer.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 27, 2019, 03:53:20 pm
Why are you repeating the same idiotic comparisons that didn’t make any sense the first time?  Repeating something stupid doesn’t make it sound more smarter...   more intelligeter...   better.

Saying something is idiotic or stupid or dumb doesn't make it idiotic/stupid/dumb.  In fact, it's literally the most idiotic argument you can make.  You tell me why it isn't a good comparison, use your big person words.

My argument is that legalizing something that is immoral and does direct harm to a vulnerable victim so that it's done in a safer environment doesn't make it any less immoral.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 27, 2019, 04:07:47 pm
Saying something is idiotic or stupid or dumb doesn't make it idiotic/stupid/dumb.  In fact, it's literally the most idiotic argument you can make.  You tell me why it isn't a good comparison, use your big person words.

My argument is that legalizing something that is immoral and does direct harm to a vulnerable victim so that it's done in a safer environment doesn't make it any less immoral.

Abortion is not immoral in itself.  It may be the most moral choice.

Comparing pedophilia (I think you meant pederasty) to abortion is truly idiotic.  One is illegal.  The other is constitutionally protected. 
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 27, 2019, 04:57:40 pm
Abortion is not immoral in itself.  It may be the most moral choice.

Comparing pedophilia (I think you meant pederasty) to abortion is truly idiotic.  One is illegal.  The other is constitutionally protected.

Strawman, we're talking about gender-selected abortions, which in 100% of cases in Canada are immoral.

Also, go find me the reference to abortions in the constitution.  Judges argued it fell under "security of the person", which should only apply if the woman's health is in jeopardy.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 27, 2019, 05:07:08 pm
Strawman, we're talking about gender-selected abortions, which in 100% of cases in Canada are immoral.

Also, go find me the reference to abortions in the constitution.  Judges argued it fell under "security of the person", which should only apply if the woman's health is in jeopardy.

Judges agreed it is a decision which must be made between a woman and her doctor.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 27, 2019, 05:10:22 pm
Strawman, we're talking about gender-selected abortions, which in 100% of cases in Canada are immoral.

Also, go find me the reference to abortions in the constitution.  Judges argued it fell under "security of the person", which should only apply if the woman's health is in jeopardy.

You're mixing abortion and gender selection in your posts.  If you meant gender selection, then your wording was very sloppy.

Also, you're incorrect about the  Morgantaler decision.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Morgentaler
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 27, 2019, 05:29:32 pm
Judges agreed it is a decision which must be made between a woman and her doctor.

That's not what they said in the decision either.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 27, 2019, 05:51:29 pm
That's not what they said in the decision either.

Unconstitutional under sect. 7 of the charter if you want the actual legalize.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 27, 2019, 07:05:58 pm
Unconstitutional under sect. 7 of the charter if you want the actual legalize.

I linked to the wiki about the decision.   Read it.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 27, 2019, 07:33:48 pm
Also, you're incorrect about the  Morgantaler decision.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Morgentaler

No, i was correct.

Here's what I said:
"Also, go find me the reference to abortions in the constitution.  Judges argued it fell under "security of the person", which should only apply if the woman's health is in jeopardy."

Here's from wikipedia:
"R v Morgentaler, [1988] 1 SCR 30 was a decision of the Supreme Court of Canada which held that the abortion provision in the Criminal Code was unconstitutional because it violated a woman's right under section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms ("Charter") to security of person."[/b]
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 27, 2019, 07:37:45 pm
Well this is interesting and odd:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scheer-duncan-abortion-lgbtq2-1.5262053

Scheer gets support from openly gay candidate over same-sex marriage controversy.

'I wouldn't be running if I had any inkling ... my sexual orientation wasn't welcome in the party'

As Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer continues to battle claims that he is intolerant of the LGBTQ2 community, an openly gay candidate for his party said today he is convinced Scheer's thinking has evolved over time.

"We're ready to go for the election and I wouldn't be running if I had any inkling, whatsoever, that I wasn't welcomed or my sexual orientation wasn't welcome in the Conservative Party," said Eric Duncan, Conservative candidate for Stormont, Dundas and South Glengarry.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on August 27, 2019, 07:40:16 pm
Actually it makes sense.  But somehow it makes you wonder what Scheer says to the religious types to make them like him.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 27, 2019, 07:46:48 pm
No, i was correct.

Here's what I said:
"Also, go find me the reference to abortions in the constitution.  Judges argued it fell under "security of the person", which should only apply if the woman's health is in jeopardy."

Here's from wikipedia:
"R v Morgentaler, [1988] 1 SCR 30 was a decision of the Supreme Court of Canada which held that the abortion provision in the Criminal Code was unconstitutional because it violated a woman's right under section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms ("Charter") to security of person."[/b]

Half of what you said was correct.  So what about this “should only apply if the woman’s health is in jeopardy”?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 27, 2019, 07:47:56 pm
Actually it makes sense.  But somehow it makes you wonder what Scheer says to the religious types to make them like him.

Whatever they want to hear...   probably what he really feels...
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 27, 2019, 08:30:56 pm
I linked to the wiki about the decision.   Read it.

I didn't link but I told you where to get the actual outcome from the courts. Read it.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 27, 2019, 08:39:10 pm
More:

"While Scheer did support the removal of the traditional definition of marriage from the Conservative Party's policy book in 2016, he has yet to march in a Pride parade and has not directly answered questions about where he stands on the issue today."
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 27, 2019, 08:42:42 pm
Half of what you said was correct.  So what about this “should only apply if the woman’s health is in jeopardy”?

That's my own opinion.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: waldo on August 27, 2019, 11:18:40 pm
has the mega-distraction thread-drift finished... yet?

about that policy thingee... National Pharmacare - why would weak Andy/CPC be against it - anyone, anyone... anyone?

The Green Party has in their official federal platform that they would bring in free universal pharmacare, dental care, and free post-secondary education for all.  May thinks she's Bernie Sanders, yet doesn't seem to understand that education and healthcare is provincial jurisdiction.

why would weak Andy/CPC be against National Pharmacare? Canada is the only country in the world with universal healthcare... that doesn't include a pharmacare component... in 2018, Canadians spent $38 billion on prescription medicines... Canada ranks 3rd in the world in per-capita spending on medicines. As a CPC alternative to National Pharmacare, Scheer stated:
Quote
A Conservative government would take steps to lower drug prices and improve access for those who can't afford it, addressing "gaps" in the system

contrast that Scheer/CPC nothingness to the: Statement from the Government of Canada on the Final Report  from the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare
Quote
June 12, 2019 - Ottawa, ON - Government of Canada

Today, the Honourable Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Minister of Health, will table in Parliament the final report from the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare. She released the following statement:

“Our Government is pleased to receive the final report from the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare. We would like to thank Dr. Eric Hoskins and each of the Council members for their dedication, enthusiasm, and leadership on this complex issue. We would also like to recognize the important contributions from all Canadians who took the time to provide input to and to participate in discussions with the Council over the past year—patients, provincial and territorial governments, Indigenous leaders and peoples, health care providers, stakeholder organizations, and academics.

Canadians face some of the highest prescription drug prices in the world. This influences Canadians’ access to important medications and the sustainability of Canada’s health care system. That is why, in Budget 2018, we announced the creation of the Council to make recommendations on how to best move forward on implementing a national pharmacare program.

Over the coming months, we will carefully review the Council’s final report and its recommendations. We look forward to continuing to work closely and collaboratively with the provinces and territories and with our partners and stakeholders as we consider next steps. We will also continue moving forward with other important initiatives, including those announced in Budget 2019, to improve access to prescription drugs and to make medications more affordable for all Canadians.

Our Government remains committed to implementing national pharmacare in a manner that is affordable for Canadians and their families, employers, and governments. We know that our existing patchwork of drug coverage is not working well, leading to poorer health for some and higher costs for us all. We have to do better. Canadians should never have to choose between paying for prescription drugs and putting food on the table.”

A PRESCRIPTION FOR CANADA: ACHIEVING PHARMACARE FOR ALL - Final Report of the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare - June 2019 (http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/6151260/Final-Report-of-the-Advisory-Council-on-the.pdf)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 28, 2019, 02:16:17 am
That's my own opinion.

Your opinion?  Totally irrelevant.  I just don’t think you actually read or knew much about the decision.  You didn’t even seem to know that it was a constitutional issue.

Quote
Also, go find me the reference to abortions in the constitution.

You also don’t seem to know how the Charter works.  The Charter doesn’t need to reference every possible right.
Quote
In general, courts have embraced a purposive interpretation of Charter rights.[24] This means that since early cases like Hunter v. Southam (1984) and R. v. Big M Drug Mart (1985), they have concentrated not on the traditional, limited understanding of what each right meant when the Charter was adopted in 1982, but rather on changing the scope of rights as appropriate to fit their broader purpose.[24] This is tied to the generous interpretation of rights, as the purpose of the Charter provisions is assumed to be to increase rights and freedoms of people in a variety of circumstances, at the expense of the government powers.[24]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms#Interpretation_and_enforcement

Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on August 28, 2019, 07:51:38 am
I addressed it. This is not some place in Asia.
So you think outlawing sex-selective abortion here will make people stop getting them? That's your position? The legislation might make you feel good but it will 1) do absolutely nothing to stop it (I already mentioned how you stop it), and 2) put up barriers that can be abused by pro-choice governments to limit what you consider "valid" abortions.

You know which abortions are valid? The ones that women get when they don't want to be pregnant. Those are all valid.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 28, 2019, 09:17:18 am
So you think outlawing sex-selective abortion here will make people stop getting them? That's your position? The legislation might make you feel good but it will 1) do absolutely nothing to stop it (I already mentioned how you stop it), and 2) put up barriers that can be abused by pro-choice governments to limit what you consider "valid" abortions.

You know which abortions are valid? The ones that women get when they don't want to be pregnant. Those are all valid.

My position is we should do nothing to enable gender selective abortions  and we shouldn’t pay for them. Enough with the straw men. The BC medical community has decided it is an issue and is taking whatever action it can to reduce the number of gender selective abortions.

From the way you dance around my two simple questions,  I can only assume that you do approve of abortion as a means of manipulating the gender of children and think government should pay for them.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on August 29, 2019, 07:42:48 am
My position is we should do nothing to enable gender selective abortions  and we shouldn’t pay for them.
Practically speaking how do you go about it? You think people walk into a clinic and go "Oh, I'm having a girl...please abort."
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: cybercoma on August 29, 2019, 07:43:50 am
I can only assume that you do approve of abortion as a means of manipulating the gender of children and think government should pay for them.
You're being stupid with this comment. I gave a solution to gender selection. Just because you either don't like it or don't understand it doesn't mean I support it. FOH
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Granny on August 29, 2019, 08:53:09 am
No, i was correct.

Here's what I said:
"Also, go find me the reference to abortions in the constitution.  Judges argued it fell under "security of the person", which should only apply if the woman's health is in jeopardy."

Ho hum ... a man choosing how women "should" protect their security of person?

And what if men got pregnant ...   ????!!!!
Never judge someone else if you haven't been in their situation.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 29, 2019, 11:49:54 am
Ho hum ... a man choosing how women "should" protect their security of person?

And what if men got pregnant ...   ????!!!!
Never judge someone else if you haven't been in their situation.

So you're saying the Northern US states shouldn't have judged southern slave owners because the North didn't have cotton plantations.  You're saying as a Canadian you can't judge those slave owners either because you're not American. 

Granny, as a Canadian you shouldn't judge the actions of Israel regarding Palestinians because "you haven't been in their situation" so stop posting about it (according to your logic).  ;)
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 29, 2019, 11:55:02 am
Practically speaking how do you go about it? You think people walk into a clinic and go "Oh, I'm having a girl...please abort."

As wilbur has previously stated, almost any doctor in Canada won't abort after 24 weeks without a good reason, so they can make it so doctors can't reveal the gender of a baby until after 24 weeks.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: MH on August 29, 2019, 12:30:39 pm
Doesn't that restrict choice though ?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: the_squid on August 29, 2019, 12:34:50 pm
Doesn't that restrict choice though ?

Yes.   But for good reason.  Gender selective abortion is a practice in some cultures (Indian and Chinese mostly) that we don’t want in Canada.   

Unfortunately, there are private ultrasound clinics one can go to.
https://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/gender-selection/
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 29, 2019, 01:02:02 pm
Practically speaking how do you go about it? You think people walk into a clinic and go "Oh, I'm having a girl...please abort."

The Torys were criticized for not supporting a motion in Parliament that proposed exactly that.
Quote
“that the House of Commons reiterate that a woman’s body belongs to her and her alone, and recognize her right to choose an abortion regardless of the reason.”
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: wilber on August 29, 2019, 01:03:22 pm
You're being stupid with this comment. I gave a solution to gender selection. Just because you either don't like it or don't understand it doesn't mean I support it. FOH

Simple questions you still refuse to address.
What solution?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 29, 2019, 03:20:39 pm
I'd argue this is extraordinary thread drift. If JT uses fear of Abortion laws in his campaigning it will mean he's hilariously desperate.

That being said, I do find it interesting that this is the one issue where lawmakers can't actually make any "laws" regulating abortions.

If we agree that you should have to have a very good reason to abort a fetus into the third trimester, why is it such an attack on women to have that written into law?

It seems like the same sort of slippery slope argument gun ownership advocates use in the US?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 29, 2019, 03:31:19 pm
I'd argue this is extraordinary thread drift. If JT uses fear of Abortion laws in his campaigning it will mean he's hilariously desperate.

That being said, I do find it interesting that this is the one issue where lawmakers can't actually make any "laws" regulating abortions.

If we agree that you should have to have a very good reason to abort a fetus into the third trimester, why is it such an attack on women to have that written into law?

It seems like the same sort of slippery slope argument gun ownership advocates use in the US?

I doubt like hell JT will use fear of abortion laws in his campaign, but if he felt he needed to the first thing he could do would be to simply quote from Scheer's campaign speech when he was running for CPC leadership. Statistics show doctors perform very few abortions after 24 weeks unless there is a good reason. I think most Canadians are happy with the "woman and her doctor" making the decisions on the issue.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Boges on August 29, 2019, 03:39:14 pm
Statistics show doctors perform very few abortions after 24 weeks unless there is a good reason. I think most Canadians are happy with the "woman and her doctor" making the decisions on the issue.

I repeat, the only issues where regulation is frowned upon. I'm not bothered by the status quo.

But I disagree that protecting an otherwise full formed fetus from death for anything other than a REALLY GOOD REASON is some sort of extreme woman hating position.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Omni on August 29, 2019, 04:05:52 pm
I repeat, the only issues where regulation is frowned upon. I'm not bothered by the status quo.

But I disagree that protecting an otherwise full formed fetus from death for anything other than a REALLY GOOD REASON is some sort of extreme woman hating position.

Stats. show the birth rate in Canada is 105 boys for every 100 girls. Consistent with the global average. Evidence we don't need to open the issue other than to appease the Right, and the religious.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 29, 2019, 05:25:28 pm
Doesn't that restrict choice though ?

What does?
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 29, 2019, 05:31:36 pm
Stats. show the birth rate in Canada is 105 boys for every 100 girls. Consistent with the global average. Evidence we don't need to open the issue other than to appease the Right, and the religious.

The global average isn't relevant if gender-selected abortion is happening in other countries too.  What we need to know is what is the expected average if there's zero gender abortions.  Is it 100 boys for every 100 girls?  If so then we still have a problem.
Title: Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - And