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Beyond Canada => American Politics => Topic started by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 07, 2019, 10:14:21 pm

Title: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 07, 2019, 10:14:21 pm

(https://images.mix.com/production/55/c9/55c9ea3313cac6a224896856f7da14eb.jpg)

The most beautiful Woman alive.

Intelligent, sexy, classy, and with a genuine concern for the well-being of the American people. 

I could honestly watch her speak for hours.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 08, 2019, 05:38:21 am
I have not listened to her speak.   I understand she self-describes as a kind of socialist.

Honestly, to me this is the same problem as Trump but the flip side: personality and surface perceptions over ideas and critical discussion and collaboration, candidate as product.... I find it to be a bad strategy for FOX & friends to vilify her. 

If a country is going to be this stupid, then their government needs to be redesigned so that the voting system mirrors the importance of American Idol.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 08, 2019, 05:40:01 am
And to be fair, I haven't listened to her ideas and they may be as simple as turning back the clock 20 or 30 years to higher taxes etc.  The root problem is still that the system is mismatched with the people that drive it, serve it and benefit from it.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: cybercoma on March 08, 2019, 09:53:24 am
"I know nothing about her, but here's what I think is the problem with her"

Michael Hardner, you finely demonstrate exactly what is wrong with politics and the internet.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: kimmy on March 08, 2019, 10:05:30 am
I do feel that there's a cult of personality building around her, the same as with Donald Dump or Bernie Sanders-- that people have fallen in love with her, rather than with the policies or ideas she's presenting.

I have been highly amused and impressed by her preternatural ability to trigger the snowflakes of the right and the alt-right.  She is 28 years old and has been on the job for 2 months but they treat her like she's the most powerful and most dangerous threat in politics.  She gets more ink than Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer combined, which is probably a great thing for Nancy and Chuck.

 -k
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 08, 2019, 10:22:10 am
Michael Hardner, you finely demonstrate exactly what is wrong with politics and the internet.

Not exactly fair to say I know nothing about her.  I think you can read a bit about her and get the gist of it:

Junior Congresswoman
Shine of the new
Vilified by FOX & friends

Was anything I wrote incorrect or lacking due to not reading all of her tweets ?
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 08, 2019, 10:22:57 am
I do feel that there's a cult of personality building around her, the same as with Donald Dump or Bernie Sanders-- that people have fallen in love with her, rather than with the policies or ideas she's presenting. 

Sorry kimmy.  You have written something similar to me and since you haven't read all her tweets you are unqualified to comment as per cyber.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on March 08, 2019, 10:24:35 am
She’s about as socialist as a Canadian red Tory who cares about the environment. 

ETA - that’s probably a bit of hyperbole...   maybe she’s as socialist as a moderate NDP member...   
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on March 08, 2019, 10:26:10 am
Sorry kimmy.  You have written something similar to me and since you haven't read all her tweets you are unqualified to comment as per cyber.

You haven’t heard her say a word.   Don’t forget that part...   quit while you’re behind on this particular topic MH. 
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: waldo on March 08, 2019, 12:00:51 pm
The most beautiful Woman alive.

Intelligent, sexy, classy, and with a genuine concern for the well-being of the American people. 

I could honestly watch her speak for hours.

is she the one that wants to make the electoral-college tuition free?
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: waldo on March 08, 2019, 12:04:03 pm
is she the one who really likes veterans because they take such good care of pets?
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 09, 2019, 09:28:24 am
You haven’t heard her say a word.   Don’t forget that part...   quit while you’re behind on this particular topic MH.

Why ?
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: kimmy on March 09, 2019, 01:22:56 pm
is she the one that wants to make the electoral-college tuition free?

is she the one who really likes veterans because they take such good care of pets?

This is exactly the kind of branding that Republitards and the FOX News gang are trying to put on AOC.  I have a feeling that it will backfire. 

Some of their attempts to mock her have already backfired.
"lololol, she was a bartender!"  -- yeah, well, an awful lot of young middle class voters have worked in service industry jobs.
"lololol, she can't afford to rent an apartment in DC!" -- yeah, well, an awful lot of young middle class voters can't afford rent.

 -k
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: waldo on March 09, 2019, 01:32:47 pm
This is exactly the kind of branding that Republitards and the FOX News gang are trying to put on AOC.  I have a feeling that it will backfire.

she embodies the Dunning-Kruger effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)... a real gift for the right-wing/conservatives - and for whatever else stands for the Republican party today.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: kimmy on March 10, 2019, 12:25:52 pm
she embodies the Dunning-Kruger effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)

Genuinely curious-- can you point to any examples that demonstrate that she's actually a dumb-person who thinks she's smart?

... a real gift for the right-wing/conservatives - and for whatever else stands for the Republican party today.

She's something they can campaign against, but I'm not sure she's a gift for the right.  She seems able to energize left wing voters the same way Trump energized the right, and that's not good for the right.  If AOC has a silver lining for the right, it's that she might divide leftist Democrats against centrist Democrats. But that's a divide that's been going on for a few years, since the Bernie vs Hillary primaries turned nasty.

 -k
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: waldo on March 10, 2019, 01:02:16 pm
Genuinely curious-- can you point to any examples that demonstrate that she's actually a dumb-person who thinks she's smart?

sure, she's an easy target for the FoxNews morons to attack - but she drives a lot of that critical attention (deserved or not) through her over-confidence/cockiness that does require a modicum of being factually accurate; to me, her failings around the 'Green Deal' are a highlight. Other noted critiqued points that have helped fuel right-wing animosity to her: here (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/08/10/fact-checking-alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-media-blitz/?utm_term=.f914fdca3ef3) & here (https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jul/18/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-wrong-several-counts-abou/)
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 10, 2019, 01:15:11 pm
She's a symbol.  I still don't see why I have to listen to what she says to comment on her fame.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 10, 2019, 02:50:06 pm
She seems genuinely nice, charming, and ethical, but her naive idealism is off the charts and the Green New Deal is utterly unrealistic cow manure with no real plan whatsoever, and her comments surrounding it are embarrassing.

She is what happens when you want to save the world but you don't know wtf you're talking about, which is very dangerous.  She's the progressive version of Trump, but a border wall costs ~20 billion vs her proposals costing tens of trillions.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: kimmy on March 10, 2019, 03:33:02 pm
sure, she's an easy target for the FoxNews morons to attack - but she drives a lot of that critical attention (deserved or not) through her over-confidence/cockiness that does require a modicum of being factually accurate; to me, her failings around the 'Green Deal' are a highlight. Other noted critiqued points that have helped fuel right-wing animosity to her: here (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/08/10/fact-checking-alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-media-blitz/?utm_term=.f914fdca3ef3) & here (https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jul/18/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-wrong-several-counts-abou/)

This is genuinely informative. Coverage of AOC should focus more on this kind of thing, and less on her age or her looks or her background.

This is where politics is falling short. People aren't actually talking about what she has said.  Her cheerleaders, of which there are many, love her because of who she is and some pithy sound-bites she's made.  Her haters, of which there are also many, are attacking a cartoon-- they've made her a figurehead for everything they hate about "the left" in general.   Neither group seems to pay much attention to issues of substance... it's all about her.  As Michael said early in the thread:
Quote
personality and surface perceptions over ideas and critical discussion and collaboration, candidate as product.

 -k
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: ?Impact on March 10, 2019, 03:36:45 pm
She seems genuinely nice, charming, and ethical, but her naive idealism is off the charts and the Green New Deal is utterly unrealistic cow manure with no real plan whatsoever, and her comments surrounding it are embarrassing.

She is what happens when you want to save the world but you don't know wtf you're talking about, which is very dangerous.  She's the progressive version of Trump, but a border wall costs ~20 billion vs her proposals costing tens of trillions.

You sound like a believer in the status quo, and don't want any change.

I believe ethics are very important, and as you point out distinguish her from Trump.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 10, 2019, 04:05:12 pm
You sound like a believer in the status quo, and don't want any change.

What gave you that idea? Change is good, the US needs lots of change, but if you're going to propose massive changes you need to have a specific plan, and if it sounds like it's going to cost tens of trillion of dollars you had better cost your plan and tell people exactly how it will be paid for.  You need to be more than a dreamer.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 10, 2019, 04:07:08 pm
I believe ethics are very important, and as you point out distinguish her from Trump.

I totally agree, but you need more than ethics too, you need good policy.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Omni on March 10, 2019, 04:53:39 pm
She seems genuinely nice, charming, and ethical, but her naive idealism is off the charts and the Green New Deal is utterly unrealistic cow manure with no real plan whatsoever, and her comments surrounding it are embarrassing.

She is what happens when you want to save the world but you don't know wtf you're talking about, which is very dangerous.  She's the progressive version of Trump, but a border wall costs ~20 billion vs her proposals costing tens of trillions.

I would agree that achieving all of what is suggested in the Green New Deal is, certainly currently, out of reach. However wasting billions on a wall to solve a problem which we know doesn't really exist, would be a lot stupider than spending the same amount for at least some small steps toward dealing with a problem which we know actually does exist.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 10, 2019, 05:19:20 pm
I would agree that achieving all of what is suggested in the Green New Deal is, certainly currently, out of reach. However wasting billions on a wall to solve a problem which we know doesn't really exist, would be a lot stupider than spending the same amount for at least some small steps toward dealing with a problem which we know actually does exist.

Yes the Wall is ridiculous. However, there is only one way to battle GHG and Global Warming- War.

You see, human beings are selfish and will wait until most mammals are extinct, and it threatens their way of life. Humans will kill each other off. Anyone who thinks we will all join hands, and play fair is naive. The USA is moving backward on the issue, and China and India are emitting more and more pollutants as they become more industrialized. There is no hope for us.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Omni on March 10, 2019, 05:43:53 pm
Yes the Wall is ridiculous. However, there is only one way to battle GHG and Global Warming- War.

You see, human beings are selfish and will wait until most mammals are extinct, and it threatens their way of life. Humans will kill each other off. Anyone who thinks we will all join hands, and play fair is naive. The USA is moving backward on the issue, and China and India are emitting more and more pollutants as they become more industrialized. There is no hope for us.

Certainly the US is moving backwards on the issue currently but that has to do with the fact it's current POTUS knows nothing about science, or doesn't care because he has his hands deep in the pockets of the likes of Robert Murray et al. China and India are both making serious strides toward reducing fossil fuel dependence even though they have much larger populations to deal with. If we continue to ignore science and proceed with stupid political issues like building walls, then you're probably right, no hope.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 10, 2019, 05:51:58 pm
Certainly the US is moving backwards on the issue currently but that has to do with the fact it's current POTUS knows nothing about science, or doesn't care because he has his hands deep in the pockets of the likes of Robert Murray et al. China and India are both making serious strides toward reducing fossil fuel dependence even though they have much larger populations to deal with. If we continue to ignore science and proceed with stupid political issues like building walls, then you're probably right, no hope.

The wall is pretty much irrelevant in the big picture. All we can hope for is the ability of the Earth to absorb any man made destruction we impose on it.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 10, 2019, 08:18:44 pm
I would agree that achieving all of what is suggested in the Green New Deal is, certainly currently, out of reach. However wasting billions on a wall to solve a problem which we know doesn't really exist, would be a lot stupider than spending the same amount for at least some small steps toward dealing with a problem which we know actually does exist.

Depends what that policy is I guess.  Certainly possible.  We'll see what she proposes as legislation/policy.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: ?Impact on March 11, 2019, 05:39:03 pm
if you're going to propose massive changes you need to have a specific plan

It seems a former Prime Minister talked a lot about making Canada an energy superpower, but had no specific plan. He started saying that day one on the job, and got re-elected a couple of more times. I do remember our manufacturing base being decimated, but nothing about becoming an energy superpower.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: TimG on March 11, 2019, 07:26:42 pm
It seems a former Prime Minister talked a lot about making Canada an energy superpower, but had no specific plan.
A lot depends on the inclinations of the politician. In Harper's case becoming an energy superpower would involve encouraging private business. The same rhetoric coming from politician with an inclination towards nationalizing the oil industry would be a huge concern. i.e. the problem with vagueness comes from the fear of what that politician might actually do and AOC's there is a fell founded fear that she would see to kill off the economy by saddling businesses with so many regulations and taxes that they could no longer function.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: guest18 on March 15, 2019, 07:31:16 am
Or perhaps it depends on the inclinations of the opposition to make up whatever BS they can to serve Big Oil interests.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Super Colin Blow on March 15, 2019, 11:12:35 am
I have not listened to her speak.   I understand she self-describes as a kind of socialist.

Honestly, to me this is the same problem as Trump but the flip side: personality and surface perceptions over ideas and critical discussion and collaboration, candidate as product.... I find it to be a bad strategy for FOX & friends to vilify her. 

If a country is going to be this stupid, then their government needs to be redesigned so that the voting system mirrors the importance of American Idol.

god, I love it when someone from one country tells another how to reform itself.

I haven't listened to AOC speak before, either. I'll refrain from making any judgments for the moment, but do we have any links to some of her speeches? I could tell you what I have "heard" about her, but that's not exactly what one would call factual or fair. In a situation like this, it's hard to tell the truth with a polarizing figure (if indeed she is) because one side will always put her on a pedestal, the other, on a pedestal of dung.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 15, 2019, 10:11:01 pm
god, I love it when someone from one country tells another how to reform itself.

Fair comment, and I should say that I don't think we're much better if at all better.

Quote
I haven't listened to AOC speak before, either. I'll refrain from making any judgments for the moment, but do we have any links to some of her speeches? I could tell you what I have "heard" about her, but that's not exactly what one would call factual or fair. In a situation like this, it's hard to tell the truth with a polarizing figure (if indeed she is) because one side will always put her on a pedestal, the other, on a pedestal of dung.

I don't think her position has as much to do with her ideas as it is for her to be a symbolic anti-Trump and especially a focus for FOX viewers' pointless TV rage.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 15, 2019, 11:42:43 pm
It seems a former Prime Minister talked a lot about making Canada an energy superpower, but had no specific plan. He started saying that day one on the job, and got re-elected a couple of more times. I do remember our manufacturing base being decimated, but nothing about becoming an energy superpower.

Well, the difference is, Canada was indeed well on its way to becoming an energy superpower given the oil reserves we had and the exploding industry in Alberta.  That is until the bottom fell out of the price of oil several years ago because in part the Saudis cranked up their production to undercut us out of the market (which has been working). 

And Canada becoming that energy superpower wasn't going to cost our government trillions, in fact it was making the government tax dollars hand over fist.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 15, 2019, 11:47:45 pm
I haven't listened to AOC speak before, either. I'll refrain from making any judgments for the moment, but do we have any links to some of her speeches? I could tell you what I have "heard" about her, but that's not exactly what one would call factual or fair. In a situation like this, it's hard to tell the truth with a polarizing figure (if indeed she is) because one side will always put her on a pedestal, the other, on a pedestal of dung.

Just do a search on Youtube.  There's lots of videos of her speaking.   I still really like her as a person, i just think she needs another 10 years of life/work/political experience before she starts proposing major legislation, or at least takes time to research what she's talking about.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 15, 2019, 11:50:02 pm
I don't think her position has as much to do with her ideas as it is for her to be a symbolic anti-Trump and especially a focus for FOX viewers' pointless TV rage.

She's famous because she's very young, she's hispanic, and she's a progressive from NYC (major media hub).  If she were a white woman from Nebraska nobody would give a f*ck.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Omni on March 15, 2019, 11:54:35 pm
She's famous because she's very young, she's hispanic, and she's a progressive from NYC (major media hub).  If she were a white woman from Nebraska nobody would give a f*ck.

Well at least we get to see what flimsy criteria you base your "political" opinion on.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 16, 2019, 12:00:22 am
Well at least we get to see what flimsy criteria you base your "political" opinion on.

what does that mean?
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Omni on March 16, 2019, 12:04:32 am
what does that mean?

Re read your own post is my suggestion.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 16, 2019, 12:06:09 am
Re read your own post is my suggestion.

 ???
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 16, 2019, 06:47:54 am
She's famous because she's very young, she's hispanic, and she's a progressive from NYC (major media hub).  If she were a white woman from Nebraska nobody would give a f*ck.

There is probably a Nebraska version of this.  Faith Goldy is another type of this - cute bimbo Nazi...   


Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: cybercoma on March 18, 2019, 11:28:18 am
Fair comment, and I should say that I don't think we're much better if at all better.

I don't think her position has as much to do with her ideas as it is for her to be a symbolic anti-Trump and especially a focus for FOX viewers' pointless TV rage.
It's baffling when people say this. She has clearly articulated policy ideas. She's not merely anti-Trump.

Now the Republicans, they were merely anti-Obama and that's illustrated in their total inability to pass any meaningful legislation when they had control of the entire government. They're completely ineffective because they don't have any position, any policies, any principles or values. They stand for nothing. All they do is stand against progress. Now that they've been infiltrated by the Russians, they stand to grind the government to a halt and obstruct everything so that the American government is unable to stand in the way of Russian Manifest Destiny.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: cybercoma on March 18, 2019, 11:30:45 am
She's famous because she's very young, she's hispanic, and she's a progressive from NYC (major media hub).  If she were a white woman from Nebraska nobody would give a f*ck.
She's famous because she represents the views of people who weren't previously represented in Congress and she overthrew a strong, long-term incumbant with a massive upset victory that lead to extensive media coverage due to how exceptional that situation was.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: waldo on March 18, 2019, 11:58:58 am
She's famous because she represents the views of people who weren't previously represented in Congress and she overthrew a strong, long-term incumbant with a massive upset victory that lead to extensive media coverage due to how exceptional that situation was.

the infamous is drowning out the famous
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 18, 2019, 06:32:22 pm
It's baffling when people say this. She has clearly articulated policy ideas. She's not merely anti-Trump.

No, but she's an "anti-Trump".  She's been picked up by FOX and made to be the focus of their tiresome baiting because she's just a typical millennial punching bag for them.

Quote
Now the Republicans, they were merely anti-Obama and that's illustrated in their total inability to pass any meaningful legislation when they had control of the entire government. They're completely ineffective because they don't have any position, any policies, any principles or values. They stand for nothing. All they do is stand against progress. Now that they've been infiltrated by the Russians, they stand to grind the government to a halt and obstruct everything so that the American government is unable to stand in the way of Russian Manifest Destiny.

Yeah.  Ok, but ... well there just isn't much to talk about in US politics.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 18, 2019, 06:38:34 pm
She's famous because she represents the views of people who weren't previously represented in Congress and she overthrew a strong, long-term incumbant with a massive upset victory that lead to extensive media coverage due to how exceptional that situation was.

Forgot about the latter, agreed on that one.

I don't quite agree with the former.  There's a ton of Latino/a-Americans in Congress, as well as progressive folk like Bernie Sanders.  I think the media market of her constituency as a big factor.  MSNBC and the NYT etc don't have their headquarters in North Dakota.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Rue on April 24, 2019, 10:35:56 am
(https://images.mix.com/production/55/c9/55c9ea3313cac6a224896856f7da14eb.jpg)

The most beautiful Woman alive.

Intelligent, sexy, classy, and with a genuine concern for the well-being of the American people. 

I could honestly watch her speak for hours.

Beautiful and sexy yes. However with due respect, she has said some incredibly stupid and naïve things. She does represent young voters and left wing Democrats however.

I hate to say this, but I think if she was not as attractive as she is no one would be paying attention to her. As much as looks should not count they sure as hell do in politics and got her elected.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: ?Impact on April 24, 2019, 02:45:56 pm
she has said some incredibly stupid and naïve things

All politicians are guilty of that. Is she more guilty than others, or are you simply unwilling to take an objective look?
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Rue on April 25, 2019, 03:12:11 pm
I do feel that there's a cult of personality building around her, the same as with Donald Dump or Bernie Sanders-- that people have fallen in love with her, rather than with the policies or ideas she's presenting.

I have been highly amused and impressed by her preternatural ability to trigger the snowflakes of the right and the alt-right.  She is 28 years old and has been on the job for 2 months but they treat her like she's the most powerful and most dangerous threat in politics.  She gets more ink than Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer combined, which is probably a great thing for Nancy and Chuck.

 -k

I agree. I ticked off disagree by mistake  because of a fat thumb.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Rue on April 25, 2019, 03:18:49 pm
All politicians are guilty of that. Is she more guilty than others, or are you simply unwilling to take an objective look?

You state something subjective while telling me to be objective?   Clearly I was expressing a subjective impression as are you. Please don' t lecture me to maintain a standard you do not.  Tell you what lead by example. Provide some objective analysis of her positions. Practice what you preach.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: ?Impact on April 25, 2019, 04:16:23 pm
Provide some objective analysis of her positions.

I am not wrapped up enough in a junior Senator to do detailed analysis of her positions. I was just pointing out that you did not either. I try to not make juvenile generic remarks about a backbencher.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on April 25, 2019, 08:10:56 pm
All politicians are guilty of that. Is she more guilty than others, or are you simply unwilling to take an objective look?

Her Green New Deal proposes having 100% renewable energy in the US by 2030, plus free college tuition and single-payer healthcare among other things.  The plan would probably cost tens of trillions, if even possible.

So yes i'd say she's definitely more guilty than others.  I find her likeable but man...
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 26, 2019, 08:13:33 am
I am not wrapped up enough in a junior Senator ...

Did you say junior Senator ?  Try congressman.

She's a pop icon, that's all.  But then again that's politics today.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: guest18 on April 26, 2019, 09:53:11 am
No, she's actually an intelligent, coherent politician with good, clear, rational ideas to solve long-entrenched problems. That's why everybody is terrified of her and trying desperately to dismiss her.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: TimG on April 26, 2019, 10:03:53 am
rational ideas to solve long-entrenched problems.
ROTFL. You can't be serious. The Green New Deal was a laughable document dreamed up by naive poseurs with no understanding of how the economy and energy systems work.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 26, 2019, 10:52:21 am
No, she's actually an intelligent, coherent politician with good, clear, rational ideas to solve long-entrenched problems. That's why everybody is terrified of her and trying desperately to dismiss her.

They're not terrified of her - FOX made her a scarecrow and now she's a pop culture icon.  From what I've heard of her ideas they make sense but this is not normal politics and it feeds into the FOX outrage model.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: TimG on April 26, 2019, 11:03:46 am
From what I've heard of her ideas they make sense
And what would those ideas be? All I have heard from her are her desire to emulate the failures of Mao's 'great leap forward'.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Omni on April 26, 2019, 11:18:18 am
And what would those ideas be? All I have heard from her are her desire to emulate the failures of Mao's 'great leap forward'.

Yeah, access to healthcare and education, who the hell needs that? Better off to let the billionaires keep their untaxed billions.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: ?Impact on April 26, 2019, 12:10:10 pm
Her Green New Deal proposes having 100% renewable energy in the US by 2030, plus free college tuition and single-payer healthcare among other things.

Goals are something to aim at. The counter goals is more money for today's billionaires, and a degraded environment for future generations.

Free college tuition and single-payer healthcare have been achieved in other countries with strong economies. Again these are investments in the country and its future, not wealth accumulation by the entitled few.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 26, 2019, 12:24:07 pm
And what would those ideas be? All I have heard from her are her desire to emulate the failures of Mao's 'great leap forward'.

More green laws and universal healthcare.

Canada is Maoist I guess.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: waldo on April 26, 2019, 12:33:58 pm
They're not terrified of her - FOX made her a scarecrow and now she's a pop culture icon.  From what I've heard of her ideas they make sense but this is not normal politics and it feeds into the FOX outrage model.

the waldo posted earlier:
sure, she's an easy target for the FoxNews morons to attack - but she drives a lot of that critical attention (deserved or not) through her over-confidence/cockiness that does require a modicum of being factually accurate; to me, her failings around the 'Green Deal' are a highlight. Other noted critiqued points that have helped fuel right-wing animosity to her: here (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/08/10/fact-checking-alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-media-blitz/?utm_term=.f914fdca3ef3) & here (https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jul/18/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-wrong-several-counts-abou/)
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Rue on April 26, 2019, 01:17:53 pm
I am not wrapped up enough in a junior Senator to do detailed analysis of her positions. I was just pointing out that you did not either. I try to not make juvenile generic remarks about a backbencher.

Your first two comments confirm you criticize me for the very thing you engage in.

Then you make a comment accusing me of having made juvenile remarks about a "backbencher".

Please explain what in the words below are juveline Impact:

"Beautiful and sexy yes. However with due respect, she has said some incredibly stupid and naïve things. She does represent young voters and left wing Democrats however.I hate to say this, but I think if she was not as attractive as she is no one would be paying attention to her. As much as looks should not count they sure as hell do in politics and got her elected."

Ms. Ocasio-Cortez has made numerous comments on Twitter and to the media that have caused negative back-lash against her because of their inherent lack of basis.

She has not taken the time to research what she says. She shoots off at the mouth about topics she has not researched. In fact she is providing fodder to get right wing Republicans elected with her stupid comments.

The list of her stupid comments is there for anyone to find on the internet.

Impact try once when responding to me to avoid the personal remarks. You have no reason to feel the need to compensate or pose as more mature han I. Please feel free to embrace your maturity or anything else just don't point it at me.  It's no big deal. Thank you.



Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: ?Impact on April 26, 2019, 01:31:12 pm
Please explain what in the words below are juveline Impact:

"Beautiful and sexy yes. However with due respect, she has said some incredibly stupid and naïve things. She does represent young voters and left wing Democrats however.I hate to say this, but I think if she was not as attractive as she is no one would be paying attention to her. As much as looks should not count they sure as hell do in politics and got her elected."

You message is 100% crystal clear: all looks, no substance. That is absolutely not fair, it does not distinguish her from 99.9% of politicians based on that simplistic assessment. Don't forget the king (Emperor, President) of stupid comments shoots off his mouth with 1000 times the number of stupid comments based on far less research. Stacked up against the political field, AOC does not stand out in that respect in the slightest.

Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on April 26, 2019, 04:38:31 pm
Goals are something to aim at. The counter goals is more money for today's billionaires, and a degraded environment for future generations.

Aiming at that goal is insane, and reckless, and not even possible.  Who wouldn't want the US running on 100% renewables?  Of course that would be great, it would just bankrupt the country (in that short of period) even if the technology did exist.  The plan also isn't costed at all.  No proposals on what it will cost or how it will be paid for.  It's obvious few experts if anyone was consulted on this.

Quote
Free college tuition and single-payer healthcare have been achieved in other countries with strong economies. Again these are investments in the country and its future, not wealth accumulation by the entitled few.

These are fine and do-able, different countries have these already.  But you can't pay for all of this together with the energy plan. Put out a plan that is actually workable & people can get behind.  JFK was a dreamer, and wanted to go to the moon, and it was actually feasible.

I like her, don't get me wrong, but she's very young and very inexperienced, she should sit and learn the ropes a bit before making grand plans to transform the entire economy.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Michael Hardner on April 26, 2019, 05:54:27 pm
the waldo posted earlier:

I guess I agree with that.  I haven't been paying attention to this phenomenon ... or the thread :)
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Rue on April 27, 2019, 10:06:16 pm
You message is 100% crystal clear: all looks, no substance. That is absolutely not fair, it does not distinguish her from 99.9% of politicians based on that simplistic assessment. Don't forget the king (Emperor, President) of stupid comments shoots off his mouth with 1000 times the number of stupid comments based on far less research. Stacked up against the political field, AOC does not stand out in that respect in the slightest.

If and when she says something intelligent, accurate or sensical I might agree with her. I judge her by what she says not how she looks. As for Donald Trump I criticize him equally as I do her. As for the double standards or unfairness you find with politics and the media if it brings you anger or sadness you might want to consider yoga, anti depressants, chocolate, knitting.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Omni on April 27, 2019, 10:13:56 pm
If and when she says something intelligent, accurate or sensical I might agree with her. I judge her by what she says not how she looks. As for Donald Trump I criticize him equally as I do her. As for the double standards or unfairness you find with politics and the media if it brings you anger or sadness you might want to consider yoga, anti depressants, chocolate, knitting.

If you actually believe AOC and Donald are equally deserving of criticism, I suggest you sit down and take up one of your preferred hobbies.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Rue on April 27, 2019, 10:40:50 pm
Omni your response to me is illogical.  The fact Trump says stupid things that  need to be challenged does not justify  that when Cortez says stupid things she should not be challenged. 

Don't lecture me to use a double standard but thanks for reminding me what an idiot is and why we need to question them.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Omni on April 27, 2019, 10:43:12 pm
Omni your response to me is illogical.  The fact Trump says stupid things that  need to be challenged does not justify  that when Cortez says stupid things she should not be challenged. 

Don't lecture me to use a double standard but thanks for reminding me what an idiot is and why we need to question them.

Hence the reason I questioned your comment.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Omni on April 27, 2019, 11:09:58 pm
Some of AOC's suggestions may well be somewhat over zealous, such as her time frame of getting the US weaned off of fossil fuels, but at least she is looking forward to the reality of it's better to have a plan in place and work toward it rather than waiting for the inevitable. Trump wants to "reopen the coal mines. Doesn't believe in global warming even though his own government scientists are 97% agreed it is happening. And I don't think AOC so far has been caught in an average of 4 or 5 blatant lies each and every day as Trump has. Nor have I heard her openly admit to sexual harassment nor is she awaiting something like 23 charges of same as he is.

Trying to compare these two is about as ridiculous as it gets.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: ?Impact on April 28, 2019, 02:00:33 pm
The fact Trump says stupid things that  need to be challenged does not justify  that when Cortez says stupid things she should not be challenged. 

Yes, Trump is challenged for the stupid things he says. You however were making a generalization about Cortez, not challenging something specific she said.

Knit one, purl two

Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: cybercoma on April 29, 2019, 08:54:25 am
They're not terrified of her - FOX made her a scarecrow and now she's a pop culture icon.  From what I've heard of her ideas they make sense but this is not normal politics and it feeds into the FOX outrage model.
Since when do you allow FOX to define things for you?
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Rue on April 30, 2019, 06:49:15 pm
Yes, Trump is challenged for the stupid things he says. You however were making a generalization about Cortez, not challenging something specific she said.

Knit one, purl two

I did challenge specific things she said. If you need  a list of all the stupid things she said go on the internet. There is no shortage of them. They are public record. Why would I repeat them?

https://freebeacon.com/blog/five-idiotic-moments-recent-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-interview/


Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Super Colin Blow on May 06, 2019, 07:18:27 am
There's now a Netflix documentary on her, Knock the House Down or something.

And she's been in office for what, 4 months at most?
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Super Colin Blow on May 06, 2019, 07:22:15 am
I am not wrapped up enough in a junior Senator to do detailed analysis of her positions. I was just pointing out that you did not either. I try to not make juvenile generic remarks about a backbencher.

We don't have "backbenchers" in the United States; I think you mean she's a freshman congresswoman, that's the most frequently used term. (Though I imagine the Republican congressmen have their own unique words.)
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: ?Impact on May 06, 2019, 01:11:17 pm
I think you mean she's a freshman congresswoman

Are you sure it is not a freshwoman congressman, or fresh woman congressman?
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Super Colin Blow on May 06, 2019, 09:47:58 pm
Are you sure it is not a freshwoman congressman, or fresh woman congressman?

Good one! (Probably the latter...and a little bit too fresh, imho.)
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Coolio on November 28, 2023, 06:35:13 am
(https://images.mix.com/production/55/c9/55c9ea3313cac6a224896856f7da14eb.jpg)

The most beautiful Woman alive.

Intelligent, sexy, classy, and with a genuine concern for the well-being of the American people. 

I could honestly watch her speak for hours.

Yes, AOC is everything that a woman should be. Intelligent, empathetic, courageous, and she will not sell out her integrity for political gain.  The World needs more AOC's.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Spike The Hike Shady on November 28, 2023, 09:02:38 am
Yes, AOC is everything that a woman should be. Intelligent, empathetic, courageous, and she will not sell out her integrity for political gain.  The World needs more AOC's.
Is this a joke?  Progressives can’t stand her, as she has abandoned all of the things she said to get elected.  She’s also in a group with some of the most antisemitic members of Congress we’ve ever seen.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: guest7 on November 28, 2023, 09:45:33 am
And she has air conditioning! 

What kind of Climate Change Warrior is that???
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: guest18 on November 28, 2023, 09:50:07 am
Yes, everyone knows you have to be above reproach to even bring up the topic of climate change. I bet she's driven a car too! Nobody should even talk about climate change until they've never emitted any carbon ever.
Title: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Post by: Black Dog on November 29, 2023, 03:12:43 pm
Is this a joke?  Progressives can’t stand her, as she has abandoned all of the things she said to get elected. She’s also in a group with some of the most antisemitic members of Congress we’ve ever seen.

Because they're black/brown?