Canadian Political Events

Beyond Ottawa => Provincial and Local Politics => Topic started by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 07, 2019, 01:37:01 am

Title: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 07, 2019, 01:37:01 am
This group seems to be getting larger. Any cause for alarm?
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on March 07, 2019, 07:06:06 am
Sure.  How much though ?  Cite ?

At a certain point, the government will remove them but we're not there yet... right ?
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: cybercoma on March 07, 2019, 07:41:54 am
At a certain point, the government will remove them
Will they? If Sheer is PM, will the white supremacist filth who props him up allow him?
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on March 07, 2019, 10:10:57 am
Will they? If Sheer is PM, will the white supremacist filth who props him up allow him?

 Power is power.  If they challenge him or challenge power they will be managed.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: kimmy on March 09, 2019, 01:16:34 pm
Sure.  How much though ?  Cite ?

At a certain point, the government will remove them but we're not there yet... right ?

How does one "remove" them?  How does one deal with extremists in our society where people are given a lot of leeway as to the views they express and the ways they can express them?   As we have seen in other countries in recent years, this is an extremely challenging problem with no simple answers.


As an aside, I wish that extremists would quit branding themselves with Norse mythology.

 -k
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on March 10, 2019, 10:27:02 am
How does one "remove" them? 

Put them in jail or kill them.  Pretty easy, actually.

Quote
How does one deal with extremists in our society where people are given a lot of leeway as to the views they express and the ways they can express them?   As we have seen in other countries in recent years, this is an extremely challenging problem with no simple answers.

Put them in jail or kill them.  Pretty easy, actually.


Quote
As an aside, I wish that extremists would quit branding themselves with Norse mythology.
 

The fact that they have branding may mean they're not a serious threat, and are merely trying to be outrageous.  The October Crisis illustrates what happens if the government thinks there is a real threat.  That was a handful of people, and I am told two cells.

Telus, Shaw and Bell are able to scan all text and voice messages today, as I recall.  So it's just a declaration of martial law, and a script and off they go.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on March 10, 2019, 11:02:31 am
If their members in Canada break the law they should be arrested and charged.  If they want to spout moronic nonsense that's protected under the law, that's their right.  I've never heard of this group having much legs in Canada.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: wilber on March 10, 2019, 02:38:08 pm
Put them in jail or kill them.  Pretty easy, actually.

Put them in jail or kill them.  Pretty easy, actually.


The fact that they have branding may mean they're not a serious threat, and are merely trying to be outrageous.  The October Crisis illustrates what happens if the government thinks there is a real threat.  That was a handful of people, and I am told two cells.

Telus, Shaw and Bell are able to scan all text and voice messages today, as I recall.  So it's just a declaration of martial law, and a script and off they go.

Putting someone in jail in this country can take years even if it is possible. Who is going to kill them?
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on March 10, 2019, 09:10:40 pm
It takes years so to try someone not put them in jail.

The government has guns.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: wilber on March 11, 2019, 09:39:40 am
It takes years so to try someone not put them in jail.

The government has guns.
Who is going to use those guns? You are talking about killing people. Who will do the dirty work?
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: the_squid on March 11, 2019, 12:48:28 pm
Who is going to use those guns? You are talking about killing people. Who will do the dirty work?

MH might be looking for work, apparently...
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 11, 2019, 03:03:01 pm
MH might be looking for work, apparently...

He has his work cut out for him. I noticed quite a few of the Soldiers of Odin are Hells Angels associates/members.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 11, 2019, 03:30:21 pm
He has his work cut out for him. I noticed quite a few of the Soldiers of Odin are Hells Angels associates/members.
One of the biggest pussies I ever knew is a full-patch Hell's Angel. I used to bully him myself as a lad because he was small and stupid. He's currently in jail for beating a 14-year-old kid with bone cancer with a steel bar for riding his bike down his back lane.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Omni on March 11, 2019, 04:13:45 pm
One of the biggest pussies I ever knew is a full-patch Hell's Angel. I used to bully him myself as a lad because he was small and stupid. He's currently in jail for beating a 14-year-old kid with bone cancer with a steel bar for riding his bike down his back lane.

Is that one of those "fine people" Trump refered too?
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on March 11, 2019, 05:19:59 pm
Who is going to use those guns? You are talking about killing people. Who will do the dirty work?

The people in the government who have guns.  I don't have their names.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: wilber on March 11, 2019, 05:27:59 pm
The people in the government who have guns.  I don't have their names.
Not asking for names. Just anyone in government?
I think you are just playing at being a smart ass.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 11, 2019, 06:10:02 pm
Is that one of those "fine people" Trump refered too?
I take full responsibility for the role my bullying might have played in turning him into a 50-year-old paranoid coke dealer who beats up little kids. My only defence is that I was 14 years old and he had a hilarious bald patch on his head from where his dad broke a beer bottle. And I was a total asshole when I was 14.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 11, 2019, 06:58:36 pm
One of the biggest pussies I ever knew is a full-patch Hell's Angel. I used to bully him myself as a lad because he was small and stupid. He's currently in jail for beating a 14-year-old kid with bone cancer with a steel bar for riding his bike down his back lane.
Why would you brag about bullying anyone?
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on March 11, 2019, 07:24:00 pm
Not asking for names. Just anyone in government?
I think you are just playing at being a smart ass.

I'm not. 

Do I really have to explain to you how the government puts down a revolt ? 

Ok: they use the army.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 11, 2019, 07:43:54 pm
Why would you brag about bullying anyone?
Because I'm still kind of an asshole? Or because he's a full-patch Hell's Angel who beat a kid with leukemia with a metal bar.
Probably both.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 11, 2019, 09:20:59 pm
Because I'm still kind of an asshole? Or because he's a full-patch Hell's Angel who beat a kid with leukemia with a metal bar.
Probably both.


Bullying kids is never cool.

The_Squid was bullied pretty badly in Grade school, and look at how he turned out. I would not wish that on my worst enemy.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: wilber on March 11, 2019, 11:18:53 pm
I'm not. 

Do I really have to explain to you how the government puts down a revolt ? 

Ok: they use the army.

The army are not executioners.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on March 11, 2019, 11:52:08 pm
Because I'm still kind of an asshole? Or because he's a full-patch Hell's Angel who beat a kid with leukemia with a metal bar.
Probably both.

Kind of reminds me of when my uncle used to tell me that he beat up both the Road Warriors in the early 80s, and I was naive enough to believe him.  I think it's cute that you have an overactive imagination.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on March 12, 2019, 06:08:23 am
The army are not executioners.

At a certain point, they do kill. 

That's why they are given rifles and not toilet plungers.

Do you enjoy bogging a discussion down by challenging elementary points ?  That is salient to me here.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 12, 2019, 08:17:15 am


Bullying kids is never cool.

in my defence, I stopped doing it about 40 years ago.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 12, 2019, 08:19:22 am
Kind of reminds me of when my uncle used to tell me that he beat up both the Road Warriors in the early 80s, and I was naive enough to believe him.  I think it's cute that you have an overactive imagination.
Wait. Now you don't believe me because I'm probably just trying to impress you? Don't be so impressed by bullying! It's not cool!
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: wilber on March 12, 2019, 06:31:13 pm
At a certain point, they do kill. 

That's why they are given rifles and not toilet plungers.

Do you enjoy bogging a discussion down by challenging elementary points ?  That is salient to me here.

Well you really need to be more specific about what you mean when you say "challenge power". Until then I will be challenging your "elementary points".
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on March 12, 2019, 07:00:49 pm
My quote is

"At a certain point, the government will remove them but we're not there yet... right ?"
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: wilber on March 12, 2019, 07:10:57 pm
My quote is

"At a certain point, the government will remove them but we're not there yet... right ?"
At what point would you justify lethal force to do it?
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on March 12, 2019, 08:22:42 pm
At what point would you justify lethal force to do it?

Me ?  At the point where they become a threat to others ?  Why are you interrogating me on obvious points of domestic security ?

Are you expecting me to say "kill 'em all" or something ?  Just tell me what mistake you're waiting for me to make so I can end this interminable dentist visit of a thread.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: wilber on March 12, 2019, 09:09:16 pm
Me ?  At the point where they become a threat to others ?  Why are you interrogating me on obvious points of domestic security ?

Are you expecting me to say "kill 'em all" or something ?  Just tell me what mistake you're waiting for me to make so I can end this interminable dentist visit of a thread.

I'm not looking for a mistake, just clarity. Just throwing out kill them is pretty glib. Certainly if armed rebellion took place, the state would be justified in using the military and appropriate lethal force. Short of that, not. If I'm a little sensitive on this subject it's because I'm the father of a police officer and he joined to keep people safe, not kill them.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on March 12, 2019, 10:14:30 pm
Ok well my point was really that these nutbars do not post an existential threat and we have a security establishment that protects us well against these kinds of things.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: cybercoma on March 13, 2019, 07:49:58 am
The army are not executioners.
Oh but they are and they've been used that way throughout our history, not just overseas.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: wilber on March 13, 2019, 10:40:56 am
Oh but they are and they've been used that way throughout our history, not just overseas.

When in Canada and certainly not now in most democracies. It is one thing to ask your military to protect the country from foreign aggression but entirely different when it comes to its own citizens. The point many revolutions succeed is when the military refuses to fire on its own people.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: cybercoma on March 13, 2019, 11:23:04 am
When in Canada and certainly not now in most democracies. It is one thing to ask your military to protect the country from foreign aggression but entirely different when it comes to its own citizens. The point many revolutions succeed is when the military refuses to fire on its own people.
Feel free to split hairs, but Bloody Saturday saw the North-West Mounted Police murder protesters. The government can and has killed civilians for getting "out of line" and they would certainly do it again in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: wilber on March 13, 2019, 11:26:20 am
Feel free to split hairs, but Bloody Saturday saw the North-West Mounted Police murder protesters. The government can and has killed civilians for getting "out of line" and they would certainly do it again in a heartbeat.
We disagree on that.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Granny on April 12, 2019, 10:57:52 am
We disagree on that.
Disagree that Canadian police (or military) did kill Canadians who dissent against government, or disagree that they would do it again?
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: wilber on April 12, 2019, 11:05:11 am
Disagree that Canadian police (or military) did kill Canadians who dissent against government, or disagree that they would do it again?

Not since the Winnipeg general strike and unlikely it will happen again. People make a big deal of the Toronto G20 but the facts are, more than twice as many police were injured than protestors and over 40 businesses were vandalized. Protesters get more latitude in this country than just about anywhere on earth.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: ?Impact on April 12, 2019, 11:18:29 am
Protesters get more latitude in this country than just about anywhere on earth.

Protestors were told to go the the latitude of Queens Park, 3km north of the G20 venue. It was there that the cops rounded up the peaceful protestors. Only in Canada do protestors comply with the law to that extent.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Granny on May 04, 2019, 01:33:38 pm
Not since the Winnipeg general strike and unlikely it will happen again. People make a big deal of the Toronto G20 but the facts are, more than twice as many police were injured than protestors and over 40 businesses were vandalized. Protesters get more latitude in this country than just about anywhere on earth.
1200 people spent the weekend in wire cages.

If the police got "injured" slamming the doors on their pinkies, who the fuck cares?!!

Maybe they should not have been following UNLAWFUL orders, arresting innocent people, grossly violating civil rights and trying to suppress dissent against governments.
The duty of the police is to protect the right of every citizen to dissent against government.
Edit add:
Every officer, every person in Canada in every situation every time.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 11, 2019, 12:54:43 am
The army are not executioners.

If people are breaking the law, the government will stop them, via RCMP, local police, or even military if it gets really bad.  Soldiers of Odin,  Are they terrorists?  They sound more like a bunch of thugs thinking they're some toughguy militia.

Nice thing about organized groups is you can break them up, infiltrate them, spy on them.  Lone wolves are much, much harder to anticipate or stop.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Granny on May 11, 2019, 02:15:24 am
If people are breaking the law, the government will stop them, via RCMP, local police, or even military if it gets really bad. 
When the state tries to use the force of the police or military to suppress dissent against government, cops and soldiers better start thinking who really pays them and why.
It isn't the state. It's the people.
And we pay everyone of them to protect our Constitutional rights in every situation, every time.

Quote
Soldiers of Odin,  Are they terrorists?  They sound more like a bunch of thugs thinking they're some toughguy militia.
What's the difference?
Quote
Nice thing about organized groups is you can break them up, infiltrate them, spy on them.
Do that.
Quote
Lone wolves are much, much harder to anticipate or stop.
Do that too.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Coolio on June 15, 2019, 02:02:08 am
I support Soldiers of Odin, and their goals to cleanse Canada of riff-raff.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on June 15, 2019, 06:17:20 am
I support Soldiers of Odin, and their goals to cleanse Canada of riff-raff.

So you are a murderer then ?  Maybe not you personally, but you support a group that will murder Canadians ?  I think you should leave this group.  Anyone who supports killing innocents doesn't really need to "discuss" anything.

On my side are the police and security forces and I support them monitoring you and your ilk for the rest of your lives and acting if they see any threat.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Coolio on June 15, 2019, 06:21:08 am
So you are a murderer then ?  Maybe not you personally, but you support a group that will murder Canadians ?  I think you should leave this group.  Anyone who supports killing innocents doesn't really need to "discuss" anything.

You have no idea what Soldiers of Odin represent.  Educate yourself and become a better person.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Danica on June 15, 2019, 07:48:12 am
Soldiers of Odin rules. I am a card carrying member.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on June 15, 2019, 08:35:13 am
You have no idea what Soldiers of Odin represent.  Educate yourself and become a better person.

It's not that hard.  "Hey everyone, I started a group named after a far-right group but DON'T WORRY !"
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Danica on June 15, 2019, 08:42:54 am
It's not that hard.  "Hey everyone, I started a group named after a far-right group but DON'T WORRY !"

Please respect freedom of speech, Michael.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on June 15, 2019, 08:45:11 am
Please respect freedom of speech, Michael.

I do.  I say "Hi there - who are you ?  Oh... a Nazi-Supporting Group ?  Great !  Now fuck off."
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: the_squid on June 15, 2019, 10:28:46 am
Oh, sorry.  Am I in danger ?  Maybe I should be quiet then.

Why are you engaging trolls?  Just report them.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: MH on June 15, 2019, 01:59:50 pm
Why are you engaging trolls?  Just report them.

I didn't know what was going on at first, sorry.  The post threatening me was deleted.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Omni on June 15, 2019, 02:12:13 pm
I didn't know what was going on at first, sorry.  The post threatening me was deleted.

It seems to be easy enough for a troll to hijack an avatar. I wonder why they pick the ones they have.
Title: Re: Soldiers on Odin
Post by: Granny on June 26, 2019, 10:49:31 pm
You have no idea what Soldiers of Odin represent.  Educate yourself and become a better person.

Educate us.