Canadian Political Events

Beyond Canada => The World => Topic started by: Omni on February 23, 2019, 03:29:58 pm

Title: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Omni on February 23, 2019, 03:29:58 pm
People are starving and dying in hospitals for lack of meds in the country while Maduro hurls threats and instructs his military to block truckloads of international aid from crossing a bridge into Caracas. I'm worried this could turn really ugly.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Pinus or Vid or...????? on February 23, 2019, 04:49:50 pm
Brazil and Colombia may invade them soon. At least that is what the Brazilian Trump is trying to navigate.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Omni on February 23, 2019, 04:54:57 pm
A sensible approach to my mind would be to let the aid trucks in to help the population, and then call an election. Not likely that will happen though, especially when we hear from Maduro.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: SuperColinBlow on May 03, 2019, 09:41:07 am
A sensible approach to my mind would be to let the aid trucks in to help the population, and then call an election. Not likely that will happen though, especially when we hear from Maduro.

What if said election is as fixed as a Don King boxing match by the powers that be; thus resulting in a 99% victory for Maduro?

Brazil and Colombia may invade them soon.

Why would they?
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Granny on May 03, 2019, 01:44:48 pm
People are starving and dying in hospitals for lack of meds in the country while Maduro hurls threats and instructs his military to block truckloads of international aid from crossing a bridge into Caracas. I'm worried this could turn really ugly.
Venezuela is accepting aid from many countries and the UN. Maduro just refuses to accept 'aid' from the US.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/04/12/why-the-us-aid-to-venezuela-was-not-real-aid-and-how-false-western-humanitarianism-is-used-to-justify-imperialism/
"The reality is that the Maduro administration has accepted aid from numerous countries as well as working with United Nations organizations, and the USAID was indeed a trojan horse to use as a means of US military intervention. "

It is the US that has concocted the current crisis in Venezuela, tried to install a leader favourable to US oil interests.

What the Maduro government is rejecting is “humanitarian” aid from the Trump administration and its allies, given that these regimes have made it clear that they intend to overthrow the Maduro government and undemocratically install their hand-picked, right-wing candidate Juan Guaido.
...
“Then the president talked about Venezuela. That’s the country we should be going to war with, he said. They have all that oil and they’re right on our back door.”

The US has a history of using “humanitarianism” as a guise and for military intervention, particularly through usage of USAID and corporate media manipulation.


And ... Canada just goes along with the US intervention in Venezuela ... because Canadian mining companies want access to Venezuela's minerals. Canada is complicit in an attempted US coup against a duly and properly elected Maduro government.

I note that as of today, the US coup effort has not succeeded in turning the Venezuelan military against Maduro. The majority of Venezuelans still support their democratically elected government and their nationalized resource industries.

The US tries to destroy any government in any country that nationalizes it's resources. There are many examples, notably Iraq and Syria.

Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Granny on May 04, 2019, 08:56:25 am
And the US coup fizzles out ... 😊
"The plot that failed" ... because Venezuelans do not want the US controlling their oil resources, nor do they want Canada controlling their mineral resources!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/03/venezuela-protests-news-latest-maduro-uprising-that-fizzled-
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Granny on May 04, 2019, 09:03:28 am
What if said election is as fixed as a Don King boxing match by the powers that be; thus resulting in a 99% victory for Maduro?

Nonsense. The election was scrutinized and it was valid. And you can certainly see the truth today, because the Venezuelan people did not come out to  support the US coup, and it has fizzled out.

 Those are just Trump lies to try to justify a takeover of Venezuelan oil. And Trudeau's lies to try to take control of Venezuelan minerals.

The Venezuelan people are not interested.

Trump will start a war now.
Another war of US imperialism.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: MH on May 04, 2019, 09:15:07 am

 Trump will start a war now.
Another war of US imperialism.

His buddy Putin is on the other side of this, though, and guess who is better at strategy and tactics.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: TimG on May 04, 2019, 11:05:46 am
Nonsense. The election was scrutinized and it was valid.
ROTFL. Human rights watch has raised concerns about the fairness of the election:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/10/23/questionable-elections-venezuela
Saying it was valid takes some pretty delusional thinking.

Venezuela has already handed all of their oil assets to the Chinese in return for loans so it is quite hilarious to see you spinning conspiracy theories about the US wanting their oil. Thanks to shale oil the US does not need or want any more oil from third world basket cases. If anything, the collapse of Venezuela is good for the US exporters because the price of oil goes up.

The only people to blame for the crisis are Chavez and Maduro and the Venezuelans who supported them over the years.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 04, 2019, 12:21:29 pm
Thanks to shale oil the US does not need or want any more oil from third world basket cases.

Sure why would the US (or Canada) want to keep controlling one of the most strategically important resources in the world it has been obsessed with controlling for the last 70 years+ whose output and global price can still be manipulated to decimate the US (and Canadian) economy as happened in the 1970's, and whose output and global price can be manipulated to decimate the US shale business and Alberta oil sands business as has happened in the last 5 years by OPEC?

Surely Venezuela being an OPEC member has nothing to do with US and Canada considerations.  Surely Canada, whose economy is highly dependent on the global price of oil, has no interests in this!  Surely it is democracy that Canada and the US care most about!
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Granny on May 04, 2019, 01:20:08 pm
Sure why would the US (or Canada) want to keep controlling one of the most strategically important resources in the world it has been obsessed with controlling for the last 70 years+ whose output and global price can still be manipulated to decimate the US (and Canadian) economy as happened in the 1970's, and whose output and global price can be manipulated to decimate the US shale business and Alberta oil sands business as has happened in the last 5 years by OPEC?

Surely Venezuela being an OPEC member has nothing to do with US and Canada considerations.  Surely Canada, whose economy is highly dependent on the global price of oil, has no interests in this!  Surely it is democracy that Canada and the US care most about!
Canadian mining companies want gold, not oil.

If the US doesn't want Venezuelan oil, explain Trump's quote:

Then the president talked about Venezuela. That’s the country we should be going to war with, he said. They have all that oil and they’re right on our back door.”

And as of today, support for the US installed Guaido has simply not shown up, nor did the military switch sides. It's a bust.
See link in my post above.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: TimG on May 04, 2019, 01:25:14 pm
If the US doesn't want Venezuelan oil, explain Trump's quote:
Trump is a moron that no one within the US government takes seriously. The UA strategic interest in Venezuela is a desire to see a true democracy/capitalist society and to undermine China's efforts to turn Venezuela in to a colony. Oil is no longer a strategic concern.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 04, 2019, 07:22:47 pm
Trump is a moron that no one within the US government takes seriously. The UA strategic interest in Venezuela is a desire to see a true democracy/capitalist society and to undermine China's efforts to turn Venezuela in to a colony.

And why does the US want to see a democratic/capitalist society in Venezuela?  It's not because the US is just nice.  I certainly would't ignore concerns about Chinese influence as you're saying, but over the last several decades we've seen the same song and dance by the US in the middle east and latin america and elsewhere around the world.  Capitalist democracies are less likely to nationalize natural resources and more likely to let US companies and investors have access to those markets and make money for America, for Americans, especially for the wealthy who fund & lobby & work in the government.

Quote
Oil is no longer a strategic concern.

Link?
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: TimG on May 04, 2019, 08:35:32 pm
And why does the US want to see a democratic/capitalist society in Venezuela?
Because it undermines China and Russia that find it easier to co-op dictatorship.

Capitalist democracies are less likely to nationalize natural resources and more likely to let US companies and investors have access to those markets and make money for America, for Americans, especially for the wealthy who fund & lobby & work in the government.
This too but when you bring in expertise and profit driven corporations efficiency goes up and the countries in question can often get a lot more value from their resources. So it can be a win-win depending on the fine print of the contracts signed. It is certainly a better deal than China's offers of loans followed by asset take overs when the country can't pay back the loans.

Link?
If the US cared about the oil price they would not be trying to boycott Iran.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 04, 2019, 09:24:14 pm
If the US cared about the oil price they would not be trying to boycott Iran.

That's not all the US cares about though.  Iran undermines all US interests it can muster because it has hated the US for many decades for helping install & propping up the Shah in order to secure US/western oil interests when the democratically elected Mossedegh was going to nationalize the oil in the 1950's.  The Iranian regime's raison d'etre is independence from being a western/US oil puppet state.  The US did roughly the same thing to Iran it seems like it's trying to do with Venezuela.

And ya there's considerations of whose influence Venezuela will fall under, Russia/China now, like in the 50's Iran could have slid to the USSR's side of the cold war.  We're basically saying similar things, i just disagree that Venezuela's oil, being the largest proven reserves in the world, isn't a factor.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 04, 2019, 09:26:45 pm
This too but when you bring in expertise and profit driven corporations efficiency goes up and the countries in question can often get a lot more value from their resources. So it can be a win-win depending on the fine print of the contracts signed. It is certainly a better deal than China's offers of loans followed by asset take overs when the country can't pay back the loans.

I agree, there's nothing wrong with foreign investment if it serves the interests of the country.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Granny on May 05, 2019, 08:46:35 am
I agree, there's nothing wrong with foreign investment if it serves the interests of the country.

Venezuela has clearly and repeatedly said no to US involvement and yes to democratic socialism.
The coup that the US tried to engineer just fizzled out.
The people weren't fooled. The army didn't fold. Maduro didn't leave, and US assassins haven't got him yet.
Is the US now justified in making war on the people of Venezuela? 
Should Canada be supporting that?
Are we going to send Canadian soldiers to kill Venezuelans so Canadian mining companies can get rich?
Is that justification for Canadians to pay for a war?

Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: SuperColinBlow on May 06, 2019, 07:26:10 am
Nonsense. The election was scrutinized and it was valid. And you can certainly see the truth today, because the Venezuelan people did not come out to  support the US coup, and it has fizzled out.

 Those are just Trump lies to try to justify a takeover of Venezuelan oil. And Trudeau's lies to try to take control of Venezuelan minerals.

The Venezuelan people are not interested.

Trump will start a war now.
Another war of US imperialism.

I said IF; a hypothetical. I wasn't talking about the past election, I was talking about one in the future. Not that it would surprise me if their last election was fixed, however...

Interesting how you can speak so clearly for the People of Venezuela. You're not a Russian troll, are you?
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Granny on May 06, 2019, 12:04:06 pm
I said IF; a hypothetical. I wasn't talking about the past election, I was talking about one in the future. Not that it would surprise me if their last election was fixed, however...

Interesting how you can speak so clearly for the People of Venezuela. You're not a Russian troll, are you?

Are you CIA?  ::)
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: SuperColinBlow on May 06, 2019, 09:40:14 pm
Are you CIA?  ::)

Quiet, you'll blow my cover!  :-X
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Granny on May 06, 2019, 10:04:50 pm
Quiet, you'll blow my cover!  :-X
Your little plot failed again  :D
In Venezuela, U.S.-Guaido strategy flops again
 https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-venezuela-analysis-guaido-maduro-20190505-story.html

The CIA threw a coup last week ... and nobody came.  ;D
LOLOL

US jackboots going in?

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/mb8g5n/trumps-venezuela-war-hawks-are-freaking-out-congress
Venezuelan forces are on alert. Over the weekend, Maduro spoke directly to the nation’s military and told them "to be ready to defend the homeland with weapons in your hands if one day the U.S. empire dares to touch this territory, this sacred earth."
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: SuperColinBlow on May 07, 2019, 09:31:15 am
Hmm, in other words he's propping himself up by claiming it's all America's fault. Pretty old strategy. He should get some new material. Why would the U.S. invade Venezuela when we're already fighting a war in Afghanistan?
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Granny on May 07, 2019, 10:21:02 pm
Trump is a moron that no one within the US government takes seriously. The UA strategic interest in Venezuela is a desire to see a true democracy/capitalist society and to undermine China's efforts to turn Venezuela in to a colony. Oil is no longer a strategic concern.

Oh barf.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: SuperColinBlow on May 09, 2019, 01:34:14 am
Oh barf.

Granny, if we wanted oil we could get it somewhere else. Besides, Trump doesn't seem to want to do anything about it, since Putin doesn't want him to.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Granny on May 10, 2019, 12:19:47 am
Granny, if we wanted oil we could get it somewhere else. Besides, Trump doesn't seem to want to do anything about it, since Putin doesn't want him to.
Canada wants gold and minerals for Canadian-registered mining companies.
The US wants Venezuela's oil.
And to destroy any semblance of socialism in case US'ns start getting any ideas about using taxes for the people instead of for the corporate US predatory perpetual war machine.
 
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on May 11, 2019, 12:01:01 am
Granny, if we wanted oil we could get it somewhere else. Besides, Trump doesn't seem to want to do anything about it, since Putin doesn't want him to.

Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world.  There's a reason why we've been mucking around the middle-east for 70+ years.  They have virtually nothing else of any use to us besides oil.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Granny on May 11, 2019, 02:53:10 am
CIA revealed
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/11/venezuela-maduro-targets-ex-spy-chief-figuera-in-outburst
Venezuela’s president, Nicolás Maduro, has accused his former spy chief of being a CIA infiltrator who helped mastermind last week’s botched coup attempt.

In a televised address, Maduro claimed General Manuel Cristopher Figuera – the most powerful figure to join Juan Guaidó’s failed 30 April uprising – had been recruited by US intelligence services in 2018.
...
Maduro said Figuera – until last week the the head of Venezuela’s feared Bolivarian intelligence service, Sebin – was about to be detained when he defected to throw his weight behind Guaidó’s unsuccessful revolt


Who didn't know that the CIA vanguard for Corporate USA was orchestrating this abomination.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: SuperColinBlow on May 11, 2019, 03:52:03 am
Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world.  There's a reason why we've been mucking around the middle-east for 70+ years.  They have virtually nothing else of any use to us besides oil.

the largest reserves are in the magic Kingdom (Saudi Arabia) not Venezuela.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: ?Impact on May 11, 2019, 02:08:51 pm
the largest reserves are in the magic Kingdom (Saudi Arabia) not Venezuela.

The oil in Saudi Arabia (16% of global total) is more accessible, but Venezuela has larger proven oil reserves (18%). Canada comes in third at 10%, Iran is fourth at 10% (marginally less than Canada), followed by Iraq, Kuwait, UAE, and Russia.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: the_squid on May 11, 2019, 08:29:03 pm
“We” don’t need middle eastern or Venezuelan oil...  Canada exports oil, so how could “we” need oil from elsewhere?
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: SuperColinBlow on June 13, 2019, 11:41:34 am
the largest reserves are in the magic Kingdom (Saudi Arabia) not Venezuela.

I stand corrected.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: waldo on June 13, 2019, 12:15:46 pm
“We” don’t need middle eastern or Venezuelan oil...  Canada exports oil, so how could “we” need oil from elsewhere?

as I previously wrote:

The actual plan to bring Alberta oil to eastern Canada happened much earlier.   Diefenbaker's "National Oil Policy" built the pipeline, and required refineries in Ontario and west to buy Canadian oil.  The pipeline was originally intended to go all the way to Montreal, but Quebec refused. They didn't want to buy Alberta oil, they wanted to buy imported oil, which was cheaper at the time.  Ontario and provinces west of Ontario subsidized the early days of Alberta oil by buying it at prices higher than they would have paid for world oil at the time.   This was a great investment that has paid Canada back many times over.  Quebec and the Maritimes didn't help, though-- they continued buying import oil that arrived in tankers, because it was cheaper.
that's quite the self-serving revisionist spin there! Points-in fact:

- your revisionism has you confusing gas versus oil pipelines. The IPL oil pipeline was built in 1950 (Edmonton to Superior Wisconsin); extended to Sarnia in 1953; further extended to Montreal in 1976. The pipeline your revisionist spin relies upon is a gas pipeline started in 1957.

- Conservative Prime Minister Diefenbaker established a Royal Commission on Energy (1957); principal agenda item was to address the viability of an oil pipeline from Edmonton to Montreal. That 'east versus west' divide you speak to wasn't at a political provincial level (you say Quebec)... the rift was between eastern versus western oil refiners and precipitated PM Diefenbaker's Royal Commission to establish the National Energy Board (NEB) in 1959. The history I review has the NEB accepting the recommendation of a U.S. oil consultant advising that the Edmonton-to-Montreal pipeline not be built... based on the "economics of the day". The NEB accepted that recommendation, which was subsequently formally adopted in the Diefenbaker National Oil Policy of 1961... as a result, coming up on 6 decades later, Western Canadian oil producers have never had meaningful access to domestic markets... and why the majority of Canada's population is still subject to, "the vagaries of international oil geopolitics and continental energy economics".

- further to that Conservative PM Diefenbaker National Oil Policy: east of the Ottawa Valley, Canadians were to be supplied with cheap imported Middle East/Venezuela oil... west of the Ottawa Valley, Canadians were to be supplied with Western Canadian oil. That PM Diefenbaker policy formalized a pattern whereby Western Canada exported oil to the US and Central/Eastern Canada imported overseas oil... integrating Western Canada into the continental oil market while dominated by American ownership. Of course "Irish Eyes" Mulroney, by formal FTA trade agreement with the U.S., further cemented the loss of Canadian sovereignty while substantially weakening Canadian control of our own energy resources... further extended by NAFTA's formalization of the original FTA's so-called "proportionality clause" whereby, effectively, Canadian oil and gas became North American oil and gas with little to no Canadian control of our own resources.

... and you have the ignorance and audacity to challenge the rationale behind a national energy program intended to (ultimately) circumvent what's transpired... to ultimately establish Canadian control, determination and ownership of our own resources. What a concept!
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Coolio on June 15, 2019, 01:59:21 am
The Brazilian Trump, with American aid will hopefully start a war with Venezuela and annex the country outright.
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: SuperColinBlow on June 16, 2019, 12:39:42 am
The Brazilian Trump, with American aid will hopefully start a war with Venezuela and annex the country outright.

Why would they do that?
Title: Re: Concerned about Venezuala
Post by: Granny on July 14, 2019, 09:48:10 pm
Clear comment on China's interests in Venezuela
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/china-determine-future-venezuela-190709143930431.html