Canadian Politics Today
Beyond Politics => General Discussion => Topic started by: SirJohn on November 28, 2018, 09:07:55 pm
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A large scale study shows a quarter of the graduating post-secondary students in Ontario have inferior literacy and numeracy skills, while 45% achieved 'minimum passes'.
Students aren't being taught proper skills in literacy, in being able to read, and comprehend data, or in analytical skills.
On literacy and numeracy, the study found that the largest number of students – about 45 per cent – received a score of three out of a possible five, which HEQCO called “the minimum required for graduates to perform well in today’s work world.” About 25 per cent scored below that level, and a little less than 30 per cent scored at a level of four out of five, considered superior.
The test was not measuring whether students can read or do arithmetic, but whether they can take written or numerical information and use it to solve problems.
“Is it okay that one in four students from Ontario’s s post-secondary system has below adequate literacy and numeracy? That number should be zero,” Dr. Weingarten said.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-one-in-four-ontario-university-students-lack-basic-literacy-numeracy/
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It starts before they get to university I think. You should be able to write an adequate essay before you hit first year uni.
I think at the university level not as much is demanded of students as decades past. There's still some older **** profs out there, pretty rare, that still demand a lot.
I'm not good at math & didn't persue it far so can't comment on that end. I wonder how they did the test. Did they test the students on BOTH math and literary skills, because usually uni students will be good at one or the other depending on their program. The science/math people usually suck at essays & vice versa.
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Post Secondary includes colleges I think, which includes George Brown Cooking School, Humber's Stand-Up Comedy Program etc.
I also wonder how they did the test but I will say this: University is oversold and primarily sold as a key to middle-class income. My friend's kid was an awesome coder and a great artist. He went to work after high school, no problem.
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When university was something only a small number of people did it was possible to have higher standards because people who could not meet them had other options. Today university is seen as a necessity which puts pressure on admins to reduce standards to ensure everyone can get their degree. Ironically this undermines the value of the degrees so people end up spending thousands on a piece of paper that is a necessary but not sufficient requirement for a job.
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Well if you read the comments on that article a lot of recent grads complain about the number of foreign students, and how difficult it is when assigned to work with them. Many of them speak very poor English, yet are accepted into universities on the basis of, well, they pay a lot. This is bound to lower the overall caliber of teaching and learning. There are something like 150,000 foreign students in Canadian post-secondary institutions.
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Lots of Canadians are studying abroad as well. Top destination countries are France, UK, and USA; which represents about one third of the total. The number of international students in Canada is about 3 times the number of Canadians studying abroad. Canada is the #4 destination country for foreign students - well done Canadian post secondary institutes.
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Lots of Canadians are studying abroad as well. Top destination countries are France, UK, and USA; which represents about one third of the total. The number of international students in Canada is about 3 times the number of Canadians studying abroad. Canada is the #4 destination country for foreign students - well done Canadian post secondary institutes.
The purpose of post-secondary education is to educate CANADIANS, not foreigners. if admitting large numbers of foreigners with poor language skills is damaging the education of Canadians then the foreigners should be excluded.
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The purpose of post-secondary education is to educate CANADIANS, not foreigners. if admitting large numbers of foreigners with poor language skills is damaging the education of Canadians then the foreigners should be excluded.
Except that foreign post secondary students do as well or better than their Canadian classmates, and they spend a lot of money in the process.
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Except that foreign post secondary students do as well or better than their Canadian classmates, and they spend a lot of money in the process.
I don't care how foreign students do. I care about whether they're making it harder for Canadians.
The stories of people in that cite, though they're just individual statements, suggest the level of cheating among them is high, and that administrations are 'encouraging' teachers to just let them through. I don't much like that either.
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I don't care how foreign students do. I care about whether they're making it harder for Canadians.
The stories of people in that cite, though they're just individual statements, suggest the level of cheating among them is high, and that administrations are 'encouraging' teachers to just let them through. I don't much like that either.
You don't care how they do? Why would you say that? Is it because they make it hard for Canadians because they simply do well? They pay for their education here while we pay for a good portion of our own people's, which I totally agree with. Many of those foreign students, especially Asians go to work and pay taxes after they graduate. I thinkyour continued fear of them damn fureners is clouding your view, as usual.
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You don't care how they do? Why would you say that?
Because I don't give a damn about foreigners. The purpose of the Canadian education system is to educate Canadians. If the education of foreigners does not detract from that, then I'm fine with it. If it does, then I'm not.
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Because I don't give a damn about foreigners. The purpose of the Canadian education system is to educate Canadians. If the education of foreigners does not detract from that, then I'm fine with it. If it does, then I'm not.
Foreigners add a LOT of money to the education system. And then many go on to work here and pay a LOT of taxes, and for a long time because they are young. I was in a TD bank in Richmond lately. Most of the tellers were Oriental, all spoke perfect English, knew exactly what they were doing, and I don't think many were much over 30 years old. Would such an environment frighten you?
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University Students from other countries, besides paying much money to study here, become high income and highly productive innovators when they get to stay. Those I meet from other countries that study here are all high achievers.
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University Students from other countries, besides paying much money to study here, become high income and highly productive innovators when they get to stay. Those I meet from other countries that study here are all high achievers.
Exactly the type of immigrant Sir John claims to like..... except... he doesn’t like then either.
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Foreigners add a LOT of money to the education system. And then many go on to work here and pay a LOT of taxes, and for a long time because they are young. I was in a TD bank in Richmond lately. Most of the tellers were Oriental, all spoke perfect English, knew exactly what they were doing, and I don't think many were much over 30 years old. Would such an environment frighten you?
We're not talking about immigration. Are you guys just so fixated on immigration you can't stick to the subject under discussion?
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Exactly the type of immigrant Sir John claims to like..... except... he doesn’t like then either.
Read the cite. Does it say anything about immigration? No. So why are you talking about immigration?
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We're not talking about immigration. Are you guys just so fixated on immigration you can't stick to the subject under discussion?
Ah but wasn't it you who tried to flog the BS story that foreign students can't speak English and are a detriment to Canadian students?
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I don't care how foreign students do. I care about whether they're making it harder for Canadians.
They’re not. You have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about.
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When university was something only a small number of people did it was possible to have higher standards because people who could not meet them had other options. Today university is seen as a necessity which puts pressure on admins to reduce standards to ensure everyone can get their degree. Ironically this undermines the value of the degrees so people end up spending thousands on a piece of paper that is a necessary but not sufficient requirement for a job.
I would think standards may be lowered so students don't drop out. More students mean more money, especially after 1st and 2nd year. when classes shrink dramatically due to drop outs.
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Apparently you can write a bunch of fake essays filled with trendy social justice jargon and get published in peer-reviewed academic journals: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/new-sokal-hoax/572212/
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Apparently you can write a bunch of fake essays filled with trendy social justice jargon and get published in peer-reviewed academic journals: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/new-sokal-hoax/572212/
Didn't that happen like 10 years ago ?
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Probably. They mention another instance in the 90's.
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Probably. They mention another instance in the 90's.
I'm ok with taking stock of our universities and education systems.
Along with:
- Democratic engagement (#1)
- Values
- Unity
- Arts & Culture
- Entitlements
- Taxes
- Our Military
- Healthcare
Start with a whiteboard, a multiparty committee of smart people, and a group of representative citizens from every region.
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“Human Reaction to **** Culture and Queer Performativity at Urban Dog Parks in Portland, Oregon”
“Do dogs suffer oppression based upon (perceived) gender?” the paper asks.
HAHAHAHHAA
In “Rubbing One Out: Defining Metasexual Violence of Objectification Through Nonconsensual ****,” the fictitious author argues that men who masturbate while thinking about a woman without her consent are perpetrators of sexual violence
AHHHHH HAHAHHAHAA
By drawing upon empirical studies of psychological harms of objectification, especially through depersonalization, and exploring severel veins of theoretical literature on nonphysical forms of sexual violence, this articles seeks to situate non-concensual male autoerotic fantasizing about women as a form of metasexual violence that depersonalizes her, injures her being on an affective level, contributes to consequent harms of objectification and **** culture, and can appropriate her identity for the purpose of male sexual gratification.
HAHHAHA I'm dying here.
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“Academics,” Alison Phipps wrote on Twitter, “please stand by colleagues in Gender Studies/Critical Race Studies/Fat Studies & other areas targeted by this journal article hoax. This is a coordinated attack from the right.”
(One way for progressives to avoid being attacked in such a way would be to not embrace nonsense.)
That too is intellectually dishonest. For one, Lindsay, Pluckrose and Boghossian describe themselves as left-leaning liberals. For another, it is nonsensical to insist that nonsense scholarship doesn’t matter because you don’t like the motives of the people who exposed it, or because some other forms of scholarship may also contain nonsense. If certain fields of study cannot reliably differentiate between real scholarship and noxious bloviating, they become deeply suspect. And if they are so invested in overcoming injustice that they are willing to embrace rank cruelty as long as it is presented in the right kind of progressive jargon, they are worsening the problems they purport to address.
That's the sound of the nail being hit squarely on the head.
But if we are to be serious about remedying discrimination, racism, and sexism, we can’t ignore the uncomfortable truth these hoaxers have revealed: Some academic emperors—the ones who supposedly have the most to say about these crucial topics—have no clothes.
Beautifully stated.
-k
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Beautifully stated.
outright data fraud... nothing more than simple results fabrication... even the most prestigious and credible academic journals have been taken in by cheats/con-artists!
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published in peer-reviewed academic journals
I am not sure that "social science" journals are comparable to says physics.
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outright data fraud... nothing more than simple results fabrication... even the most prestigious and credible academic journals have been taken in by cheats/con-artists!
What data? There is no data. There's lots of humanities/social science papers without much if any data. Theory doesn't need data. Philosophy doesn't need data. Jesus & St. Augustine of Hippo had no data, neither did Plato.
The emperor has no clothes. The people who edited these "peer-reviewed" essays liked what they read and sought them fit to print. Why? Because some academics in the humanities editing these journals are **** morons.
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I am not sure that "social science" journals are comparable to says physics.
Very different subject matter, yes. One is much more subjective, a lot more susceptible to confirmation bias.
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What data? There is no data.
;D oh really... per one of the "studies" Ms. kimmy highlighted, how would you refer to made-up research... like 10,000 hours of fake observation of dogs humping other dogs at dog parks?
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;D oh really... per one of the "studies" Ms. kimmy highlighted, how would you refer to made-up research... like 10,000 hours of fake observation of dogs humping other dogs at dog parks?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D HEY!
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D HEY!
your deflection attempt won't hide you from my reply describing (your claimed non-existent) data. Or do you have a rather unique triggered version of data definition, hey?
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Very different subject matter, yes. One is much more subjective, a lot more susceptible to confirmation bias.
Any field built on results that cannot be tested against real world experiments is subject to confirmation bias because there is no link to reality that makes it possible to disprove nonsensical claims. This means the selection of "right" and "wrong" claims is driven entirely by the preconceptions and biases of the researchers. Climate science is as bad as social science.
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Any field built on results that cannot be tested against real world experiments is subject to confirmation bias because there is no link to reality that makes it possible to disprove nonsensical claims. This means the selection of "right" and "wrong" claims is driven entirely by the preconceptions and biases of the researchers. Climate science is as bad as social science.
shocked your denial self would deny empirical evidence - shocked I tells ya!
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Any field built on results that cannot be tested against real world experiments is subject to confirmation bias because there is no link to reality that makes it possible to disprove nonsensical claims. This means the selection of "right" and "wrong" claims is driven entirely by the preconceptions and biases of the researchers. Climate science is as bad as social science.
Never mind what ~97% of the scientists who actually know what they are talking about and hide back under your bed.
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shocked your denial self would deny empirical evidence - shocked I tells ya!
Empirical "evidence' is not evidence when it consists of entirely statistical correlation analyses dependent on numerous untestable assumptions. Of course, you have no interest in understanding the limitations of scientific knowledge as long as it makes claims that support your ideological preconceptions.
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Empirical "evidence' is not evidence when it consists of entirely statistical correlation analyses dependent on numerous untestable assumptions. Of course, you have no interest in understanding the limitations of scientific knowledge as long as it makes claims that support your ideological preconceptions.
still waiting... quite literally for years now - waiting for you to validate your denial by providing your understood/interpreted principal causal link to GW/climate change... that alternative principal causal link other than anthropogenic sourced CO2. Still waiting. Is there a problem, for you?
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still waiting... quite literally for years now...
Typical waldo. Refuse to address a point you can't refute by changing the topic.
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your deflection attempt won't hide you from my reply describing (your claimed non-existent) data. Or do you have a rather unique triggered version of data definition, hey?
I think young Poonlight may be suggesting that the absurdity of the topics in question should render the discussion of how to present the "research" a moot point.
-k
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Typical waldo. Refuse to address a point you can't refute by changing the topic.
what's to refute - your unsubstantiated (denier based) opinion - where you make blanket, broad-based, all-encompassing claims without presenting an iota of actual evidence and/or data you presume to be referring to?
per your typical TimG norm, you somehow manage to deflect once again from the oft repeated challenge put to you; here, once again:
please validate your denial by providing your understood/interpreted principal causal link to GW/climate change... your understood/interpreted alternative principal causal link; one other than anthropogenic sourced CO2
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I think young Poonlight may be suggesting that the absurdity of the topics in question should render the discussion of how to present the "research" a moot point.
after a year long effort, 7 of 20 papers were accepted for publication... as I understand, only 2 of the 7 related journals would be considered mainstream journals. My earlier point was intended to emphasize that even the most reputable journal can be "hoaxed" when people lie and hide their true intentions - when they break key peer-review tenets like honesty and good faith... when they submit for review bad-faith arguments and/or manufactured data & research.
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after a year long effort, 7 of 20 papers were accepted for publication... as I understand, only 2 of the 7 related journals would be considered mainstream journals. My earlier point was intended to emphasize that even the most reputable journal can be "hoaxed" when people lie and hide their true intentions - when they break key peer-review tenets like honesty and good faith... when they submit for review bad-faith arguments and/or manufactured data & research.
If the system depends on the assumption of honesty, good faith, or competence for that matter, on the part of the would-be researchers... is it still a system?
-k
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If the system depends on the assumption of honesty, good faith, or competence for that matter, on the part of the would-be researchers... is it still a system?
-k
Not one you can depend on for very much.
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If the system depends on the assumption of honesty, good faith, or competence for that matter, on the part of the would-be researchers... is it still a system?Not one you can depend on for very much.
no - again, good faith/honesty are tenets of... principles of... peer review. The waldo says: you're confusing tenet/principle with obligation. If you're questioning the peer-review "system, as you say", perhaps familiarize yourselves with other like examples, say like... contract law, where good faith is an organizing principle but not a standalone performance obligation. Hey wilber, can you depend on contract law... much... very much?
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If the system depends on the assumption of honesty, good faith, or competence for that matter, on the part of the would-be researchers... is it still a system?
Waldo does have a point though. If you make up things in a humanities/social science journal essay, and to a journal reviewer they seem to add up even though they unknowingly aren't real, things can easily slip through a review process, even if the conclusions seem wacky.
The lesson is that even if something is published in a humanities academic journal, it is still a subjective opinion, and so just because an opinion argument is published in an academic journal doesn't mean that opinion is correct. It's still subject to an "appeal to authority" fallacy. The bigger lesson here is for students & everyone to think for themselves, and be critical.
Everyone of every ideological stripe has confirmation bias, we want to believe that which confirms our beliefs, and are much more critical on opinions that oppose it. We're all players in the great information war that's been going on basically the entirety of human history, and sometimes the best ideas don't win, only the loudest.
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Ah but wasn't it you who tried to flog the BS story that foreign students can't speak English and are a detriment to Canadian students?
I don't know if they are a detriment but when my grandson was taking first year engineering, a foreign student in his class was told his English wasn't good enough and was held back for a year while he took English courses.
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I don't know if they are a detriment but when my grandson was taking first year engineering, a foreign student in his class was told his English wasn't good enough and was held back for a year while he took English courses.
Oh I have no doubt that that occurs with foreign/immigrant students, but a bit of a contrasting personal story also comes to mind. When I was a young feller in school there were two Native born Canadian brothers, (yes I capitalized Native, not to be racist, just the facts) who missed a lot of classes because they used to get busted for drunk driving fairly regularly. Then there was a German girl whom I became friends with, the daughter of recent immigrants, who did struggle initially with English, but who also went on to graduate with honors. I guess my point here is that place of birth is not the most accurate forecaster of how someone will do in the world.
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Oh I have no doubt that that occurs with foreign/immigrant students, but a bit of a contrasting personal story also comes to mind. When I was a young feller in school there were two Native born Canadian brothers, (yes I capitalized Native, not to be racist, just the facts) who missed a lot of classes because they used to get busted for drunk driving fairly regularly. Then there was a German girl whom I became friends with, the daughter of recent immigrants, who did struggle initially with English, but who also went on to graduate with honors. I guess my point here is that place of birth is not the most accurate forecaster of how someone will do in the world.
The thing is, according to my GS this was a rich kid sent by his parents who wasn't particularly interested. Engineering has very high acceptance standards for Canadian kids and this guy ended up denying one of them a slot that year because he had foreign money. No doubt he represents a minority among foreign students but I'm also convinced foreign money does talk in our system.
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The thing is, according to my GS this was a rich kid sent by his parents who wasn't particularly interested. Engineering has very high acceptance standards for Canadian kids and this guy ended up denying one of them a slot that year because he had foreign money. No doubt he represents a minority among foreign students but I'm also convinced foreign money does talk in our system.
Yes I've heard bits about how "money talks" nowadays in our education system at the higher levels, although I must admit I haven't studied up as to how prevalent it has become. I guess if foreign money helps put some icing on the cake of our education system that's good, but it shouldn't do so at the expense of a struggling Canadian student. Regarding your example, perhaps more stringent acceptance exams could be utilized to determine the best path for the applicant. Ya know, "your kid's not an engineer, he/she should follow the arts, not science".
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The lesson is that even if something is published in a humanities academic journal, it is still a subjective opinion, and so just because an opinion argument is published in an academic journal doesn't mean that opinion is correct. It's still subject to an "appeal to authority" fallacy. The bigger lesson here is for students & everyone to think for themselves, and be critical.
This statement is true for all fields that develop ideas that cannot be proven false by a real experiment. For example, a scientist that claims a set of tree rings are a proxy for temperature and develops models for past temperatures never has to be worried about being proven wrong because no one can go back into the past an prove that temperatures were different than claimed. The most he has to worry about is someone finds a different proxy that says something different but since no one can be definitively be "proven wrong" he/she can always find reasons to argue that his/her proxies are "better". IOW, any field without falsibility is nothing but subjective opinion driven by the biases of researchers.
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This statement is true for all fields that develop ideas that cannot be proven false by a real experiment. For example, a scientist that claims a set of tree rings are a proxy for temperature and develops models for past temperatures never has to be worried about being proven wrong because no one can go back into the past an prove that temperatures were different than claimed. The most he has to worry about is someone finds a different proxy that says something different but since no one can be definitively be "proven wrong" he/she can always find reasons to argue that his/her proxies are "better". IOW, any field without falsibility is nothing but subjective opinion driven by the biases of researchers.
Um yes, we have a record of global temperatures for over a century and a half. Here's a picture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_temperature_record#/media/File:Global_Temperature_Anomaly.svg
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This statement is true for all fields that develop ideas that cannot be proven false by a real experiment. For example, a scientist that claims a set of tree rings are a proxy for temperature and develops models for past temperatures never has to be worried about being proven wrong because no one can go back into the past an prove that temperatures were different than claimed. The most he has to worry about is someone finds a different proxy that says something different but since no one can be definitively be "proven wrong" he/she can always find reasons to argue that his/her proxies are "better". IOW, any field without falsibility is nothing but subjective opinion driven by the biases of researchers.
The past investigation was simply an attempt to understand if/why there was a warming period in the middle ages. There were other ways to determine that but the real test of climate theory is whether temperatures continue to go up as CO2 levels do. They do.
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The past investigation was simply an attempt to understand if/why there was a warming period in the middle ages. There were other ways to determine that but the real test of climate theory is whether temperatures continue to go up as CO2 levels do. They do.
Have always said each claim has to be evaluated independently based on its merits. The basic premise that CO2 is a GHG that causes is warming is something that can be tested and therefore see that science as reliable. OTOH, claiming that the current warming is unusual is a key part of the alarmist narrative so they have spent a lot of effort carefully selecting proxies that tell the story they want while rejecting those that cast doubt on it. They can get away with this subjectivity because they can't be proven wrong with real experiments.
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Have always said each claim has to be evaluated independently based on its merits. The basic premise that CO2 is a GHG that causes is warming is something that can be tested and therefore see that science as reliable. OTOH, claiming that the current warming is unusual is a key part of the alarmist narrative so they have spent a lot of effort carefully selecting proxies that tell the story they want while rejecting those that cast doubt on it. They can get away with this subjectivity because they can't be proven wrong with real experiments.
So do you suggest that the vast majority (~97%) of the trained and peer reviewed climate scientists are "proxies", or do you simply not understand the actual meaning of the word. Or are you suggesting that NASA is a "proxy", and for whom? Do you think the well established scientific groups below are all "proxies"?
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
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The basic premise that CO2 is a GHG that causes is warming is something that can be tested and therefore see that science as reliable.
yet... isn't that science you claim to accept as reliable also able to point to the principal source/causal tie of the CO2 causing today's relatively recent (global) warming?
OTOH, claiming that the current warming is unusual is a key part of the alarmist narrative so they have spent a lot of effort carefully selecting proxies that tell the story they want while rejecting those that cast doubt on it. They can get away with this subjectivity because they can't be proven wrong with real experiments.
which periods of past warming (and their causal ties) do you understand/interpret as part of the skeptic/denier narrative that today's relatively recent (global) warming is not unusual - NOT unusual? As you speak of reliable science, what reliable... prevailing science are you relying upon to support your understood/interpreted narrative... skeptic/denier narrative?
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Waldo does have a point though. If you make up things in a humanities/social science journal essay, and to a journal reviewer they seem to add up even though they unknowingly aren't real, things can easily slip through a review process, even if the conclusions seem wacky.
The lesson is that even if something is published in a humanities academic journal, it is still a subjective opinion, and so just because an opinion argument is published in an academic journal doesn't mean that opinion is correct. It's still subject to an "appeal to authority" fallacy. The bigger lesson here is for students & everyone to think for themselves, and be critical.
Everyone of every ideological stripe has confirmation bias, we want to believe that which confirms our beliefs, and are much more critical on opinions that oppose it. We're all players in the great information war that's been going on basically the entirety of human history, and sometimes the best ideas don't win, only the loudest.
notwithstanding the underlying principles of good faith & honesty, of course, just because something gets published, it does not necessarily add to or move the subject knowledge factor forward. That is the crux of peer-review... and related peer response to these questionable papers... any papers for that matter. Do any... would any... of these hoax-intended papers meet the threshold of interest and profile that they become impacting to the point that they would warrant academic/scientific interest to formally question/challenge the findings of these hoax-intended papers? Or rather, would serious academics/scientists simply choose to ignore them as meaningless, non-impacting papers?
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Apparently you can write a bunch of fake essays filled with trendy social justice jargon and get published in peer-reviewed academic journals: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/new-sokal-hoax/572212/
Try it. You don't need institutional backing. See how far you get.
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Try it. You don't need institutional backing. See how far you get.
But if you do have a PhD and a university beside your name, you can get a lot of BS published, that's the point here.
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But if you do have a PhD and a university beside your name, you can get a lot of BS published, that's the point here.
Getting published is easy, getting published in a respectable journal is hard.
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But if you do have a PhD and a university beside your name, you can get a lot of BS published, that's the point here.
no - the point is one that shows that scamming persons fabricating data/research may manage to get their dishonest "studies" published... more likely in fringe journals of lower credibility/respectability, less likely in more mainstream credible/respectable journals.
oh my! Blowback Against a Hoax - Author of a recent academic scam faces disciplinary action (https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/01/08/author-recent-academic-hoax-faces-disciplinary-action-portland-state)
“The ‘hoaxes’ are simply lies peddled to journals, masquerading as articles,” wrote the group of about a dozen professors. “They are designed not to critique, educate or inspire change in flawed systems, but rather to humiliate entire fields while the authors gin up publicity for themselves without having made any scholarly contributions whatsoever. Chronic and pathological, unscholarly behavior inside an institution of higher education brings negative publicity to the institution as well as the honest scholars who work there. Worse yet, it jeopardizes the students’ reputations, as their degrees in the process may become devalued.”
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...this guy ended up denying one of them a slot that year because he had foreign money.
Does not happen. Slots are allocated beforehand for foreign/Canadian and budgeted as such.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dETn6JVO-p4&t=1s (https://i.imgur.com/HcL3SL4.png)
and yet, apparently, "GenZ" is increasingly picking trade school (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/red-alert-politics/generation-z-increasingly-picking-trade-school-over-college)
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... but I'm also convinced foreign money does talk in our system.
Well yes. That is hard to dispute. Take a look at the breakdown of students in not just community and private colleges, but universities AND high schools.
The average foreign student pays $28,000 a year to attend any of these in Ontario.
I teach at one Community College and two private colleges at the moment and have taught over a period of 20 years at about 20 colleges and universities.
I can tell you this directly. My class is 99% from India. Most of my classes are. No one from the administration ever tells me anything directly but here is how it works. One a semester I am audited by some administrator. They then right up either a "glowing" or "nasty" report-and its directly based on marks nothing else. They draft it after looking at the marks and tests you gave right before the audit. I can be the worst instructor in the world but if all my students are happy, i.e., I do not fail anyone, I get a great audit, if I fail anyone, bad audit.
Students write evaluations of their teachers. I then have this audit nd also a meeting with the Faculty Chair who looks at the evaluation and if the students say they do not like you-sorry we have no courses next semester.
All these institutions (except public high schools) base their hiring on what the students want, i.e., teachers that give high marks.
Its a student's market. Believe me marks mean nothing. They are inflated bullshit these days because of that.
The average student in college or university I have personally taught:
1-refuse to read books, refuse to read;
2-will not do footnotes
3-plagiarize
4-are NOT at grade 9 level English, i.e., they can not write a complete sentence with proper verb tenses matching plural to plural
5-do not know how to spell
6-do not know the proper use of colon, semi-colon, comma, preposition, conjunction
7-engage in dangling participles, run on sentence, and syntax that is incoherent.
Written English is a problem NOT JUST with new Canadians but born in Canada students raised in schools that have not
taught proper English and from growing lazy using the cell phone.
Students today walk into class, no pen, no paper, try to sleep, and after about 15 minutes ask for a break. They play on their
cell phones or computers. They won't read any lecture notes you send them.
My favourite is that most students skip. They will skip as many classes as possible then complain when they fail saying the
answers were never given to them in class. With Indian students about 60% of them come to you and say they are going back to India because of a wedding, they have an illness or their mother is sick. They are not exactly original with their stories. Half the students like to walk in late or towards the end of the class.
My biggest pet peeve is certain students have others carry their bags and books especially the young men having women do that or have other
young men in lower castes (religious and financial) carry their books.
Then to add to it, students argue you are racist if you call them out on bad behaviour.
That is the reality,
The reality is there are very strong foreign students, so they stick to themselves in cliques and head to Waterloo or specific faculties at McGill o r
U of T to avoid being bullied by their fellow ethnic group students for homework.
Sorry I wish I could paint a prettier picture but I can't. At the grad level it changes of course and some faculties due to the nature of the subject will not attract bad students.
Now there are illiterate students, foreign and domestic, but I would say they share the same over-dependence and illiteracy rates flowing from the cell phone and refusal to read anything and having attention spans of a gnat. That may have a lot to do with over-use and dependence of computers and cell phones.
Yes there is a phenomena and its real with young men from China, India, Pakistan, Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia. brought up as little Princes and so when they come to Canada they think their **** does not stink. The first thing you notice is they drive to school in Mercedes, BMW's, Audis, top end luxury cars, and they have unlimited credit cards, condos, and an attitude to match belittling their own fellow ethnic members. Money and class standing is a big deal with foreign students.
I can also tell you there are many scams where lots of foreign students pay fake people by internet money thinking they are dealing with a university recruiter when its someone who is fake pocketing the money.
I can tell you sadly that foreign female students pay back their immigration consultants who got them to Canada by ****.
In one college I worked at a young women pimped out the other female students. Its a very real problem and it causes outbreaks of unreported std's including aids.
Drug addiction is also not unusual. We have seen the increased use of opium with Indian and Chinese students coping with assimilation issues, stress, anxiety, loneliness.
Next are the students who use the student visa to get into Canada to work. They have been told by their immigration consultant back home the easiest way to get into Canada and work is enroll in any school and get a student visa. Then once in Canada, even though a student can work only 20 hours a week, work unlimited hours and pay back the consultant a high interest loan for your plane ticket and set up in Toronto. These kinds of students work 3 jobs, drive trucks with fake truck licenses, and so on.
I know students who do the Toronto-Montreal truck runs and are supposedly full time students. Hey they never come to class.
Let me be clear. There are also good students, foreign and domestic.
Also some students are immature and whether they are foreign or domestic they have the same immaturity and unrealistic expectations.
I love the foreign students coming to contribute. They are wonderful to encourage and help. Also there are some damn good young people I respect and admire.
So I am being blunt, but someone has to be.
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Pretty grim picture. So why are we prostituting our education system? Are we just academic pimps?
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Rue, thanks for your insights.
That's very sad to hear about the instructor evaluations. The students should have feedback but students shouldn't be able to prevent instructors from being re-hired if they get bad marks & have a hissy fit.
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I believe Rue is a teacher like I believe he’s a real lawyer...
There’s some things in his post that just aren’t believable....
99% of his classes are from India...
will not read books...
They need breaks after 15 minutes and don’t own pens.
Yeah right... ::)
This is a right-winger’s caricature of what university is like.
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I believe Rue is a teacher like I believe he’s a real lawyer...
And there's just no way I could see Rue being able to talk in a lecture for 2.5 hours straight.
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And there's just no way I could see Rue being able to talk in a lecture for 2.5 hours straight.
He has the ability to go on, and on, and on, and on.
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He has the ability to go on, and on, and on, and on.
Not sure "ability" is the correct noun. And I think you left out at least two "on's"
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Don't know about Rue but according to their websites, 26% of UBC Vancouver campus, 28% of Simon Fraser and over 20% of U Vic students are foreign. Between the three schools, that is about 30,000 students.