Canadian Political Events

Beyond Ottawa => Provincial and Local Politics => Topic started by: MH on September 25, 2018, 06:50:50 am


Title: Other Provinces
Post by: MH on September 25, 2018, 06:50:50 am
Let's face it... some provinces are just... "other"...

New Brunswick, I have seen it written as the province everyone forgets when naming them.  Still, they had an election:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Brunswick_general_election,_2018

3 Greens elected 3 populist redneck whatsit party elected ... basically a dead heat election in NB

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Brunswick_general_election,_2018
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: cybercoma on September 25, 2018, 08:27:50 am
A lot of people don't realize that PANB is a populist right-wing party. They just think they're some grass-roots third alternative. They're going to find out quickly what the party actually stands for. This election is yet another example of why FPTP is broken.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: cybercoma on September 25, 2018, 08:32:32 am
If you look at the riding-by-riding results, you'll notice that a lot of them were battles between PCs and PANBs which demonstrates that people in this province really had no clue what PANB is.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4470266/new-brunswick-election-day-results/
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: SirJohn on September 25, 2018, 12:06:04 pm
A lot of people don't realize that PANB is a populist right-wing party. They just think they're some grass-roots third alternative. They're going to find out quickly what the party actually stands for. This election is yet another example of why FPTP is broken.

I don't understand your point. They had 12.5% of the vote and got 3/49 seats. If we had proportional rep they'd still have gotten 12.5% of the vote but a lot more seats. Is that your preference? Anyway, it sounds like you don't like them. Why?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Alliance_of_New_Brunswick
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on September 25, 2018, 01:28:30 pm
It was a mistake not to amalgamate the Atlantic provinces...   so much duplication of government and services for four provinces with the population of 2.3 million people...   less than the population of greater Vancouver.

It would be unpalatable to do now, of course...   the Consitution would need changing, for one.  Also, people get emotionally invested in “their” homeland.  Try telling someone from PEI that they’re the same as a Newfoundlander or Nova Scotian.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: ?Impact on September 25, 2018, 01:32:38 pm
It was a mistake not to amalgamate the Atlantic provinces...   so much duplication of government and services for four provinces with the population of 2.3 million people...   less than the population of greater Vancouver.

It would be unpalatable to do now, of course...   the Consitution would need changing, for one.  Also, people get emotionally invested in “their” homeland.  Try telling someone from PEI that they’re the same as a Newfoundlander or Nova Scotian.

Amalgamation went so well for Toronto... and Montreal, etc .
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on September 25, 2018, 01:57:18 pm
Amalgamation went so well for Toronto... and Montreal, etc .


So you think BC would be better if it was split up into 5 provinces?   Dumb idea.  It’s inefficient and wasteful. 
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: ?Impact on September 25, 2018, 02:01:09 pm
So you think BC would be better if it was split up into 5 provinces?   Dumb idea.  It’s inefficient and wasteful.

That is quite a leap from what I said to what you implied I said. Here is one for you: The sky is blue. Let's see what you can twist that into.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on September 25, 2018, 02:20:18 pm
That is quite a leap from what I said to what you implied I said. Here is one for you: The sky is blue. Let's see what you can twist that into.

Apparently, amalgamation is bad cuz it didn’t go well in Toronto....   ::)
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: cybercoma on September 27, 2018, 08:36:35 am
I don't understand your point. They had 12.5% of the vote and got 3/49 seats. If we had proportional rep they'd still have gotten 12.5% of the vote but a lot more seats. Is that your preference? Anyway, it sounds like you don't like them. Why?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Alliance_of_New_Brunswick
I don't like them because they are populist garbage.

Just because I don't like them, doesn't mean that I support an electoral system that is unrepresentative. If they had 6 seats in a proportional system, that's what they deserve based on the number of people who voted for their mouth-breathing idiocy.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: cybercoma on September 27, 2018, 08:38:31 am
It was a mistake not to amalgamate the Atlantic provinces... 
Provinces have sovereignty. This is like saying the United States should amalgamate Germany. We are a confederation, each piece with its own Crown. Amalgamation would be annexation and which province would want to annex the others?
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: kimmy on September 27, 2018, 10:08:54 am
For legacy reasons, the miniature provinces of the east coast have disproportionately large representation in parliament and especially the senate.  The historical factors that made it this way are no longer relevant, but we can't just wave a wand and change it.

 -k
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: ?Impact on September 27, 2018, 10:26:28 am
we can't just wave a wand and change it.

Agreed, but that does not mean we should not strive to continually improve our Confederation to ensure a democracy that gives equal say in our nations affairs to all citizens.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: cybercoma on September 27, 2018, 12:20:12 pm
For legacy reasons, the miniature provinces of the east coast have disproportionately large representation in parliament and especially the senate.  The historical factors that made it this way are no longer relevant, but we can't just wave a wand and change it.

 -k
I disagree. The Atlantic provnces, particularly the Maritimes as a region have distinct interests that do overlap, but are very different from Quebec (the next closest province). The Maritimes are also culturally distinct from the other regions. Suffice it to say, they should precisely enough of a voice in the legislature that neither Ontario nor Quebec gets to decide for the Maritimes their destiny.

You guys seem to have a really big issue with sovereignty and what that means in this context.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: MH on September 27, 2018, 09:09:36 pm
You guys seem to have a really big issue with sovereignty and what that means in this context.

I would get rid of the provinces altogether if it somehow meant things would get better for people.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: SirJohn on September 27, 2018, 09:14:26 pm
I would get rid of the provinces altogether if it somehow meant things would get better for people.

I don't see that happening. In fact, rather than combining the Atlantic provinces I would cut Ontario into four separate provinces, and probably Quebec into three or four, as well. Certainly eastern and northern Ontario would be better off on their own rather than lumped in with southern Ontario, and largely ignored by the provincial government.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: MH on September 27, 2018, 09:19:22 pm
How about having zero provinces, and having one level of government that funds local service provides. 
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2018, 09:31:39 pm
How about having zero provinces, and having one level of government that funds local service provides.

Well now, you're treadin' on tin ice dere my son, I'm a former Newfie and we all luvs Joey Smallwood and the cod fishery. Now if ya got some funding for fish boats we'll talk.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: MH on September 27, 2018, 09:36:06 pm
Well now, you're treadin' on tin ice dere my son, I'm a former Newfie and we all luvs Joey Smallwood and the cod fishery. Now if ya got some funding for fish boats we'll talk.

There's no reason to not have 'fun borders'... Lanark county is different from ... oh ... Frontenac ... but there's not much reason to have giant administration organizations tied to geography.  It's dumb.   
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: Ghost of Graham on September 27, 2018, 09:37:11 pm
I would get rid of the provinces altogether if it somehow meant things would get better for people.

If anything I would leave the provinces as they are, but transfer more power and control to them, constitutionally, from the federal gov.  People need more representation and sovereignty, not less.  And more local representation to respond to their own unique needs and desires.  The more power your vote has, the better.  1 vote among 5 million is a lot better than 1 vote among 36 million.  People crave self-determination, it's what gives politics its legitimacy, and is the basis for democracy.  It makes people less frustrated, it's worked in Quebec.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: MH on September 27, 2018, 09:38:32 pm
If anything I would leave the provinces as they are, but transfer more power and control to them, constitutionally, from the federal gov.  People need more representation and sovereignty, not less.

How about services ?

Quote
And more local representation to respond to their own unique needs and desires.

Those should be tailored to the individual.
 
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: Ghost of Graham on September 27, 2018, 09:39:35 pm
There's no reason to not have 'fun borders'... Lanark county is different from ... oh ... Frontenac ... but there's not much reason to have giant administration organizations tied to geography.  It's dumb.

But you want an even more giant federal central government to dole out funding to local orgs?  Huh?  Why not smaller central governments doling out money to local orgs?
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: Ghost of Graham on September 27, 2018, 09:41:24 pm
How about services ?

What about services?

Quote
Those should be tailored to the individual.

That's vague, I don't understand.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2018, 09:41:56 pm
There's no reason to not have 'fun borders'... Lanark county is different from ... oh ... Frontenac ... but there's not much reason to have giant administration organizations tied to geography.  It's dumb.

All kidding aside I tend to agree. We could benefit from downsizing and better integrating government across this vast land.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: Ghost of Graham on September 27, 2018, 09:45:21 pm
All kidding aside I tend to agree. We could benefit from downsizing and better integrating government across this vast land.

But what if Quebecers want universal healthcare, dental, pharma, and childcare, but Alberta wants fully privately insured health and dental and daycare on their own dime?  Who is Ottawa, or people in Ontario or BC, to say what people in Quebec and Alberta should have?
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: ?Impact on September 27, 2018, 09:48:11 pm
And more local representation to respond to their own unique needs and desires.  The more power your vote has, the better.

It seems that Doug Ford disagrees with you, he is taking away local representation.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: Omni on September 27, 2018, 09:51:16 pm
But what if Quebecers want universal healthcare, dental, pharma, and childcare, but Alberta wants fully privately insured health and dental and daycare on their own dime?  Who is Ottawa, or people in Ontario or BC, to say what people in Quebec and Alberta should have?

Well, we sit down and decide what we all will have and how to fund it across the country instead of hiding in our own little niches. And we'd probably all benefit from the uniformity.
And if you want privately funded healthcare so you can go broke when you get sick, then **** off to the US and kiss Trump's arse.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: MH on September 27, 2018, 09:56:18 pm
But you want an even more giant federal central government to dole out funding to local orgs?  Huh?  Why not smaller central governments doling out money to local orgs?

The federal government could basically be an AI program, or a Go Fund Me page. 
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: MH on September 27, 2018, 09:58:29 pm
What about services? That's vague, I don't understand.

People think of government as a building, with some person in it, sitting at a desk or at a wicket.  All it needs to be is a way of making sure the right organizations get funded to provide better services.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: SirJohn on September 29, 2018, 11:00:48 am
Speaking about provinces, according to a report from the PBO, the economic situation of some of the provinces and their growing debt loads is unsustainable.

As of 2017, the provinces’ net debts average about 26 per cent of GDP — five points better than the federal government, at 31 per cent — ranging from a high of 43 per cent in Quebec to a low of 1.6 per cent in Alberta.

Now flash forward 25 years. While average provincial debt, the PBO projects, will increase modestly, to 36 per cent of GDP, the deterioration in the position of some provinces is quite startling: New Brunswick’s debt, now at 34 per cent of GDP, leaps to 115 per cent; Manitoba’s, from 37 per cent to 105 per cent; Newfoundland’s, from 32 per cent to 76 per cent.

 For comparison, when Saskatchewan famously “hit the wall” in the early 1990s, its debt-to-GDP ratio was less than 60 per cent.


https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/andrew-coyne-the-wolf-is-really-at-provinces-door-pbo-fiscal-report-warns#comments-area
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: ?Impact on September 29, 2018, 02:05:51 pm
Now flash forward 25 years. While average provincial debt, the PBO projects, will increase modestly, to 36 per cent of GDP, the deterioration in the position of some provinces is quite startling: New Brunswick’s debt, now at 34 per cent of GDP, leaps to 115 per cent; Manitoba’s, from 37 per cent to 105 per cent; Newfoundland’s, from 32 per cent to 76 per cent.

So what about Ontario? It seem that "your team" always picks on Ontario, they are according to "your team" the worst of the worst of the worst in the entire world. Where do they stack up in that metric?
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: BC_cheque on September 29, 2018, 02:39:04 pm
I disagree. The Atlantic provnces, particularly the Maritimes as a region have distinct interests that do overlap, but are very different from Quebec (the next closest province). The Maritimes are also culturally distinct from the other regions. Suffice it to say, they should precisely enough of a voice in the legislature that neither Ontario nor Quebec gets to decide for the Maritimes their destiny.

You guys seem to have a really big issue with sovereignty and what that means in this context.

I don't like them because they are populist garbage.

Just because I don't like them, doesn't mean that I support an electoral system that is unrepresentative. If they had 6 seats in a proportional system, that's what they deserve based on the number of people who voted for their mouth-breathing idiocy.

Why is proportional system good on a provincial level but not federal?
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: cybercoma on October 01, 2018, 05:44:40 pm
Federal is proportional in the lower house. Regions are balanced in the upper house.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on October 01, 2018, 07:02:11 pm
Federal is proportional in the lower house. Regions are balanced in the upper house.

Regions not provinces. Ontario and Quebec are individual regions, BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba get lumped together as do the Maritime provinces regardless of whether their interests are completely different. Provinces should be equal in the Senate but Quebec and Ontario will never allow it.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: ?Impact on October 01, 2018, 07:15:39 pm
Provinces should be equal in the Senate but Quebec and Ontario will never allow it.

So you think a province of 14 thousand should hold the same national power as a province of 14 million? That is 1000:1 ratio, and you call that democracy?
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on October 01, 2018, 07:39:06 pm
So you think a province of 14 thousand should hold the same national power as a province of 14 million? That is 1000:1 ratio, and you call that democracy?

Depends on what the Senate's powers were. If it was OK with BC and Alberta which each have double the population of the Maritimes plus Newfoundland and Labrador and over 30 times that of PEI, why not?
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on November 02, 2018, 10:17:14 am
NB government falls....   new minority PC government to take over!

https://nationalpost.com/news/newsalert-new-brunswicks-liberal-government-falls-after-throne-speech-defeated
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: guest4 on November 02, 2018, 10:43:03 am
NB government falls....   new minority PC government to take over!

https://nationalpost.com/news/newsalert-new-brunswicks-liberal-government-falls-after-throne-speech-defeated

Brian Gallant showed a lot of class:  He wished the Tories luck, saying: “Their success will be New Brunswick’s success.”

Good on him.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: cybercoma on November 02, 2018, 11:33:18 am
Brian Gallant showed a lot of class:  He wished the Tories luck, saying: “Their success will be New Brunswick’s success.”

Good on him.
Words are meaningless. We will see if they actually have the opportunity to govern.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on November 09, 2018, 10:47:08 pm
I dropped off my referendum ballot on voting reform today.  I voted to change tp a more proportional system. 
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: guest4 on November 09, 2018, 10:54:39 pm
I dropped off my referendum ballot on voting reform today.  I voted to change tp a more proportional system.

Us too, pro PR.  Did you see the "debate"?
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on November 09, 2018, 10:56:56 pm
Us too, pro PR.  Did you see the "debate"?

I have it queued up to watch on YouTube when I get the chance.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on December 02, 2018, 09:08:16 pm
That bastion of free market capitalism, Alberta, is being forced to cut oil production by government intervention by the leftist commies in power...   Supported by the corporatist PC opposition.

Might help with some short term jobs in the tar sands....   Screw the consumers of that oil everywhere else.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: bcsapper on December 02, 2018, 09:18:07 pm
That bastion of free market capitalism, Alberta, is being forced to cut oil production by government intervention by the leftist commies in power...   Supported by the corporatist PC opposition.

Might help with some short term jobs in the tar sands....   Screw the consumers of that oil everywhere else.

Good.  Might help with Climate Change.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: Omni on December 02, 2018, 09:44:03 pm
Good.  Might help with Climate Change.

How could there be anything real about climate change as we prepare to build a new pipeline? Paris Accord, shmaris accord!
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: bcsapper on December 02, 2018, 09:54:45 pm
How could there be anything real about climate change as we prepare to build a new pipeline? Paris Accord, shmaris accord!

That's what everyone seems to think.  Paris is currently showing us the cost of trying to make people pay more for their oil.  Ironic it's the same place they all signed the accord.

Certainly the pipelines won't make any difference.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: Omni on December 02, 2018, 10:31:27 pm
That's what everyone seems to think.  Paris is currently showing us the cost of trying to make people pay more for their oil.  Ironic it's the same place they all signed the accord.

Certainly the pipelines won't make any difference.

I guess we can only hope that people come to realize it might cost s few bucks to save the environment.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: TimG on December 03, 2018, 12:25:01 am
How could there be anything real about climate change as we prepare to build a new pipeline? Paris Accord, shmaris accord!
News flash: no one really cares about CO2 if caring means personal sacrifices. The people in Canada insisting we shut down the oil industry are invariably people who believe it will have no effect on them so it is safe f** over others so they can claim 'climate virtue'. These same people would be screaming bloody murder if the government tried to regulate their job out of existence.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: Omni on December 03, 2018, 12:34:03 am
News flash: no one really cares about CO2 if caring means personal sacrifices. The people in Canada insisting we shut down the oil industry are invariably people who believe it will have no effect on them so it is safe f** over others so they can claim 'climate virtue'. These same people would be screaming bloody murder if the government tried to regulate their job out of existence.

The reality of the science will require a transition which will have some bumps along the way of course. But to bury ones head in the sand would result in a lot worse bumps.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: TimG on December 03, 2018, 07:35:51 am
The reality of the science will require a transition which will have some bumps along the way of course. But to bury ones head in the sand would result in a lot worse bumps.
The problem, to the extent it exists, does not come from oil production. It comes from all those Canadians living in big cities that expect food and supplies at the local stores, electricity on demand and transport on demand. "transitioning" the oil patch will do nothing because the oil produced locally will be replaced with imports. Of course the venal hypocrites calling for "transitioning" would never dream of making real personal sacrifices for climate change. In their minds any sacrifices must be made by others.

The futility and hypocrisy of targeting oil production can be seen in this story of how the reduced power consumption from LED lights has *increased* Christmas electricity demand in BC as people simply increase the number of Christmas lights they have on display:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4713075/large-griswold-holiday-light-displays-power-costs-bc/
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on December 03, 2018, 08:47:53 am
I dropped off my referendum ballot on voting reform today.  I voted to change tp a more proportional system.

I didn’t. I have a real problem with the way this is being done. If there is only a 50% response you could get as low as 26% of the electorate deciding to change the way we vote. If that 26% is split evenly between the three options, you could have as few as 9% deciding how we vote in future. This is a dishonest and unrepresentative way of forcing change from a bunch that says how we vote now isn’t representative. As a result, I voted for the status quo. For the record, I voted for STV in the last two reforendums so I am not against change.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on December 03, 2018, 08:56:17 am
I didn’t. I have a real problem with the way this is being done. If there is only a 50% response you could get as low as 26% of the electorate deciding to change the way we vote. If that 26% is split evenly between the three options, you could have as few as 9% deciding how we vote in future. This is a dishonest and unrepresentative way of forcing change from a bunch that says how we vote now isn’t representative. As a result, I voted for the status quo. For the record, I voted for STV in the last two reforendums so I am not against change.

Your reasons for how you voted are flawed. 

The opposite is just as true....  we could be stuck with the status quo based on a low voter turnout. 

If you don’t vote, you don’t get a voice....   that’s on you.  My democratic vote for something shouldn’t depend on people who are too stupid or lazy to cast a ballot. 

Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: kimmy on December 03, 2018, 09:25:51 am
That bastion of free market capitalism, Alberta, is being forced to cut oil production by government intervention by the leftist commies in power...   Supported by the corporatist PC opposition.

Might help with some short term jobs in the tar sands....   Screw the consumers of that oil everywhere else.

Not to worry, Squid. This is not "turn off the taps".  Us BC residents will continue to receive oil through the Trans Mountain Pipeline.

Alberta will continue shipping oil as fast as possible, because there is a 35 million barrel stockpile of processed oil waiting to go through the pipelines.

 -k
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on December 03, 2018, 09:42:21 am
Not to worry, Squid. This is not "turn off the taps".  Us BC residents will continue to receive oil through the Trans Mountain Pipeline.

Alberta will continue shipping oil as fast as possible, because there is a 35 million barrel stockpile of processed oil waiting to go through the pipelines.

 -k

I wasn’t worried Kimmy.  Just pointing out rank hypocrisy where I see it.

As I have opined before, Alberta can’t “turn off the taps” to BC.  Not if it wants “stuff” coming from BC ports.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on December 03, 2018, 09:45:08 am
Your reasons for how you voted are flawed. 

The opposite is just as true....  we could be stuck with the status quo based on a low voter turnout. 

If you don’t vote, you don’t get a voice....   that’s on you.  My democratic vote for something shouldn’t depend on people who are too stupid or lazy to cast a ballot.

I did vote, in all three referendums. The other two required a clear majority of the electorate for change, this will probably result in a change dictated by a small minority of the electorate. I voted against change in this referendum because I think the process is undemocratic and underhanded. I voted for change in the other two when I thought the process was fair.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on December 03, 2018, 09:49:17 am
I did vote, in all three referendums. The other two required a clear majority of the electorate for change, this will probably result in a change dictated by a small minority of the electorate. I voted against change in this referendum because I think the process is undemocratic and underhanded. I voted for change in the other two when I thought the process was fair.

I never said you didn’t vote. 

How is casting a ballot undemocratic or underhanded?

The previous process received a clear majority, but the rules were stacked against a “yes” vote.  50%+1 seems fair and democratic.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on December 03, 2018, 10:06:30 am
I never said you didn’t vote. 

How is casting a ballot undemocratic or underhanded?

The previous process received a clear majority, but the rules were stacked against a “yes” vote.  50%+1 seems fair and democratic.
It’s not 50 plus 1 because there are four options.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: kimmy on December 03, 2018, 10:15:32 am
I wasn’t worried Kimmy.  Just pointing out rank hypocrisy where I see it.

What's with the "screw the consumers" remark then?  Consumers still get their products.

I talked to dad on the weekend and gas in Edmonton is 32 cents cheaper than it is here. If you're wondering who's really screwing the consumers, ask Mr Horgan.

 -k
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on December 03, 2018, 08:59:57 pm
What's with the "screw the consumers" remark then?  Consumers still get their products.

I talked to dad on the weekend and gas in Edmonton is 32 cents cheaper than it is here. If you're wondering who's really screwing the consumers, ask Mr Horgan.

 -k

Mr. Horgan sets the gas prices Kimmy?  That's a bit silly and partisan. 
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on December 03, 2018, 09:03:59 pm
It’s not 50 plus 1 because there are four options.

The 50%+1 is for change.  That's counted first.  Then if there's a vote to change they look at the options people voted for. 

Did you not even read your ballot information?
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on December 03, 2018, 09:48:55 pm
The 50%+1 is for change.  That's counted first.  Then if there's a vote to change they look at the options people voted for. 

Did you not even read your ballot information?


Yes I did and it forced you to vote for a choice you didn't want in the first place or have no say at all. On top of that, a couple of those choices had issues that were to be decided later, like whether some positions would be filled by people on the ballot or party appointees. They couldn't even give complete choices.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: kimmy on December 04, 2018, 12:11:45 am
Mr. Horgan sets the gas prices Kimmy?  That's a bit silly and partisan.

Well, if BC's government had lower fuel taxes, gas would be cheaper.

If there was more pipeline capacity and the lower mainland had some grown-up refineries instead of the single Fisher-Price refinery there, gas would be cheaper.

but, you know.  Killer whales and natives.

 -k
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on December 04, 2018, 08:57:30 am
Well, if BC's government had lower fuel taxes, gas would be cheaper.

If there was more pipeline capacity and the lower mainland had some grown-up refineries instead of the single Fisher-Price refinery there, gas would be cheaper.

but, you know.  Killer whales and natives.

 -k

Who am I replying to....   TimG?   So you don’t think the there should be a price on CO2 emissions?
 
I know you know that the pipeline expansion is all about exports and won’t do anything for local prices....    plus, why do we need an expansion now if the Alberta government is legislating a drop in production? 
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: kimmy on December 04, 2018, 09:41:15 am
Who am I replying to....   TimG?   So you don’t think the there should be a price on CO2 emissions?

Alberta has a CO2 tax, and their gas is still 30 cents cheaper than ours. You don't think being dependent on a single 24" pipeline and imports from Washington for all our fossil fuel state impacts gas prices here?

I know you know that the pipeline expansion is all about exports and won’t do anything for local prices....    plus, why do we need an expansion now if the Alberta government is legislating a drop in production?

BC is a market. Our money is just as good as China's. If BC had any refining capacity our own, some of the increased capacity from Alberta could be put to use right here.  Or more of Trans 1 Mountain could be used to provide fuel for BC if the expansion was providing capacity for export.

The Alberta production cut costs Canada millions of dollars in lost revenue that might come in handy if we plan to continue to pay for social programs.

 -k
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on December 04, 2018, 09:46:09 am
Who am I replying to....   TimG?   So you don’t think the there should be a price on CO2 emissions?
 
I know you know that the pipeline expansion is all about exports and won’t do anything for local prices....    plus, why do we need an expansion now if the Alberta government is legislating a drop in production?

Taxes are a big component of fuel prices.

Duh, they are reducing production because they have no way of getting it to market and have to store it  because there is no friggin pipeline. BTW, The existing TM made $300M last year. Triple capacity and you are looking at a billion. That’s why people build them, they make money.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on December 04, 2018, 10:01:33 am
Taxes are a big component of fuel prices.

Duh, they are reducing production because they have no way of getting it to market and have to store it  because there is no friggin pipeline. BTW, The existing TM made $300M last year. Triple capacity and you are looking at a billion. That’s why people build them, they make money.

Nonsense.  Oil companies would keep production at its current level if they were allowed.  The production cut has nothing to do with a lack of pipeline capacity. 
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: Omni on December 04, 2018, 11:40:30 am
Nonsense.  Oil companies would keep production at its current level if they were allowed.  The production cut has nothing to do with a lack of pipeline capacity.

Sounds like a combination of a drop in the price of bitumen blend, AND a flut caused by lack of pipeline capacity. Some companies are doing very well from the production cut.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4723557/alberta-oil-production-cuts-winners-losers/
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on December 04, 2018, 12:03:37 pm
Nonsense.  Oil companies would keep production at its current level if they were allowed.  The production cut has nothing to do with a lack of pipeline capacity.

Alberta has 35 million barrels of oil in storage. Output exceeds rail and pipeline capacity by 190,000 barrels per day.

https://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idCAKBN1O203A-OCADN
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: ?Impact on December 04, 2018, 01:01:25 pm
Mr. Horgan sets the gas prices Kimmy?  That's a bit silly and partisan.

Mr. Ford claims he is setting gas prices - by 10 cents a litre.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on December 04, 2018, 01:20:58 pm
When you factor in BC's carbon tax, the GVRD ties Newfoundland for the highest gas taxes in the country, the rest of BC comes in second. Then add 10 cents federal fuel tax plus GST on the total. GVRD and Newfoundland residents pay over 2 cents a litre GST on taxes alone. GVRD residents pay nearly 50 cents a litre in tax.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on December 04, 2018, 01:36:40 pm
Another factor, Alberta, Ontario, Quebec and the Atlantic provinces all refine more product than they consume. The other western provinces refine less than half of what they consume. Plus most of the oil they do refine has to be transported from Alberta

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/crude-petroleum/4563
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on February 01, 2019, 11:56:26 am
BC byelection confirms NDP/Green slim majority.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-bc-liberals-plan-a-housecleaning-after-by-election-loss/

Usually byelections are bad for the ruling party, they tell us.  Also, a poll by Mainstreet came out just prior to the byelection saying the Liberals had a 13 point lead.

https://theprovince.com/news/bc-politics/mike-smyth-ndp-romped-to-crucial-win-as-green-vote-collapsed
 
Greens only received 7%, compared to 20% in the general election.  People were voting strategically.  If the Greens would have received 20%, the government probably would have fallen.

The Vancouver Island Party received 0.5% of the vote.
I think I may vote for them the next election...
Quote
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Our beloved Island’s distinct way of life is under threat from severe climate change, federal and provincial government indifference and economic, environmental and social injustices.

We, our children and our grandchildren want to live in a just society with protection from the ravages of extreme climate warming such as rising sea levels, depleted resources on land and in the sea, and the lack of stable, well paying and long-lasting jobs. We also want improved health care.

There is hope! Politics, but not as usual! Love, respect, reconciliation and trust, not fear! We can enjoy a strong, safe and sustainable economy, a healthy environment and the elimination of poverty before it is too late!

Only The VanIsle Party can offer you this kind of a future. We have a plan with goals and objectives that can deliver on these promises. But we need the citizens of Vancouver Island to share our vision and work together toward its implementation before it is too late!

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http://www.vanisleparty.com/
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on November 25, 2019, 01:28:58 am
BC NDP convention passed a resolution to lower the voting age to 16.   I think this is a great idea, but doesn’t go far enough.   I think there should also be a maximum voting age of 75.   Those people are too old to have any long term stake in the province/city in which they live and, therefor, shouldn’t get to influence how the province/city will go forward into the future.


16 year olds are old enough to work and pay taxes...   no taxation without representation.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-ndp-party-resolutions-lowering-voting-age-to-16-1.5371701

Other things included not allowing parking fees at hospitals.   This one has pissed me off.  I’ve had to be in the hospital a few times for unpleasant situations.  Twice I’ve come out to find parking tickets on my vehicle.  They are taking advantage of people in vulnerable positions.   Doesn’t sit well with me.  Glad to see the NDP take a stand.

Other resolutions:

Quote
Pressuring the federal government to deliver more affordable cell phone and internet options.

Not bad...   I think if we’re being ripped off the CRTC should be protecting consumers....  (I’m assuming it’s the CRTC that governs that stuff....?)


Quote
Enhancing the diversity of representation so it reflects the diversity of British Columbia.

In principle, this sounds wunderbar.  In practice, it probably means quotas and sounds like something out of the SJW playbook...    not enthused about this one.


Quote
Recommitting to investing in childcare.

Pay out of your own damn pocketbook if you choose to have kids and can’t, or don’t like them enough, to stay home with them.  Unless you’re poor.   Then I think taxpayers should fund it.

Quote
Supporting the Period Promise campaign by encouraging government to offer free menstrual products in all public buildings in BC.

In all public buildings???   Hmmmm.....   maybe just schools/universities/hospitals/welfare offices?   I doubt the Ministry of Natural Resources offices needs a tampon dispenser.  But I don’t know for certain.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: kimmy on November 25, 2019, 02:29:44 am

16 year olds are old enough to work and pay taxes...   no taxation without representation.

My initial reaction was "but 16 year olds are dumb" but then I remembered that adults are dumb too.


Not bad...   I think if we’re being ripped off the CRTC should be protecting consumers....  (I’m assuming it’s the CRTC that governs that stuff....?)

I recall something about Innovation Minister Navdeep Bains giving the CRTC instruction to encourage more virtual network operators to enter the market last year.  Of course during the election several parties promised to tackle high cell phone costs; virtual network operators seems like the most likely way to do that.  I think most of the virtual network operators here are actually just divisions of the big 3 and just create the illusion of competition.  Big cities have some alternative providers, but here in the hinterlands we're kind of stuck with the big 3 and their sock-puppets.


In principle, this sounds wunderbar.  In practice, it probably means quotas and sounds like something out of the SJW playbook...    not enthused about this one.

I don't like the sound of it either.

Pay out of your own damn pocketbook if you choose to have kids and can’t, or don’t like them enough, to stay home with them.  Unless you’re poor.   Then I think taxpayers should fund it.

I think there ought to be means testing...

In all public buildings???   Hmmmm.....   maybe just schools/universities/hospitals/welfare offices?   I doubt the Ministry of Natural Resources offices needs a tampon dispenser.  But I don’t know for certain.

I can't see the harm.

 -k
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on November 25, 2019, 11:56:17 am
Quote
BC NDP convention passed a resolution to lower the voting age to 16.   I think this is a great idea, but doesn’t go far enough.   I think there should also be a maximum voting age of 75.   Those people are too old to have any long term stake in the province/city in which they live and, therefor, shouldn’t get to influence how the province/city will go forward into the future.

75 year olds pay taxes too, most of them a lot more than 16 year olds. What happened to no taxation without representation?
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on November 25, 2019, 12:13:16 pm
75 year olds pay taxes too, most of them a lot more than 16 year olds. What happened to no taxation without representation?

Their lack of a stake in the future outweighs that principle.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on November 25, 2019, 12:36:11 pm
Their lack of a stake in the future outweighs that principle.

Sez you, so do the terminally ill, should they be denied the vote as well?
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on November 25, 2019, 12:38:04 pm
Tell you what. I'll give up my vote at 75 if I can stop paying taxes at the same time.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on November 25, 2019, 12:43:17 pm
Tell you what. I'll give up my vote at 75 if I can stop paying taxes at the same time.

No deal.  Get back to work.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on November 25, 2019, 12:47:27 pm
No deal.  Get back to work.

Then I'll keep it.

Rather than denying some people the right to vote, young people should just get off their asses and actually vote.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: ?Impact on November 25, 2019, 12:56:00 pm
We have eye tests for older drivers, and I think there is something to do with general health at like 80 or so. Why no have senility tests before voting? As we have witnessed, senile people can have far reaching consequences on the future of a nation.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: Goddess on November 25, 2019, 12:58:17 pm
We have eye tests for older drivers, and I think there is something to do with general health at like 80 or so. Why no have senility tests before voting? As we have witnessed, senile people can have far reaching consequences on the future of a nation.

I'm not sure how well pandering to the "senile vote" would work. :D
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on November 25, 2019, 12:59:34 pm
We have eye tests for older drivers, and I think there is something to do with general health at like 80 or so. Why no have senility tests before voting? As we have witnessed, senile people can have far reaching consequences on the future of a nation.

So can ignorant people who don't make the effort to learn about issues and candidates.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on November 25, 2019, 01:04:34 pm
At one time it was only male property owners who could vote, then it was only men. Finally after many years we attained universal suffrage. Now some people want to turn the clock back by denying certain groups of citizens that basic right of citizenship.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on November 25, 2019, 01:13:36 pm
The supreme court ruled that people incarcerated for a criminal offence have the right to vote. So Paul Bernardo and Robert Picton would get to vote but anyone over 75 wouldn't?
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on November 25, 2019, 04:05:44 pm
The supreme court ruled that people incarcerated for a criminal offence have the right to vote. So Paul Bernardo and Robert Picton would get to vote but anyone over 75 wouldn't?

I didn't say there wouldn't be hurdles to implement such a forward thinking idea...  hmmm...   maybe the "Notwithstanding Clause" could be used.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on November 25, 2019, 04:34:11 pm
I didn't say there wouldn't be hurdles to implement such a forward thinking idea...  hmmm...   maybe the "Notwithstanding Clause" could be used.

I think you gotta non starter there. Just get the young punks to the polls. Not much point in giving them the right to vote if less than half of them use it.
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: the_squid on November 25, 2019, 04:41:33 pm
I think you gotta non starter there. Just get the young punks to the polls. Not much point in giving them the right to vote if less than half of them use it.

Really?  You think the right to vote is only good if everyone in a particular demographic uses it?
Title: Re: Other Provinces
Post by: wilber on November 25, 2019, 05:20:12 pm
Really?  You think the right to vote is only good if everyone in a particular demographic uses it?

Yes it is only good if you use it. It's a bit much for you to advocate taking that right away from those who do.

If you are going to take it away from someone, take it from those who are too lazy or uninterested to use it.