Canadian Politics Today
Beyond Politics => General Discussion => Topic started by: SirJohn on September 20, 2018, 08:15:26 am
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I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, I'm not generally in favour of violence, especially towards kid. On the other hand, the little bastard deserved it. Was a time the bus drivers actions would have been considered perfectly normal. If I mouthed off to an adult - any adult - and my parents heard about it you can be sure I'd have gotten smacked. And if the other adult did it as well that wouldn't stop my parents from joining in. Kids were taught to treat adults with respect. Today, the most appalling behaviour from startlingly young kids can be seen on the streets. They know they're immune to any kind of punishment. No adult dares touch them. So they can pretty much say and do whatever they feel like.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45586180
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When can you smack an adult in the head?
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When can you smack an adult in the head?
When you are older than they are, and they don't show you the respect you think you are entitled to for being older. 90 year-olds can smack most anybody.
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When can teenagers smack curmudgeonly baby-boomers in the head? Given the state of the world the baby boomers have created, I think it would be more appropriate.
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When can you smack an adult in the head?
Well, if you smacked them in the head enough when younger they'd know how to behave by the time they got to be adults.
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When can teenagers smack curmudgeonly baby-boomers in the head? Given the state of the world the baby boomers have created, I think it would be more appropriate.
What state would that be? Better than at any time in the history of mankind?
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90 year-olds can smack most anybody.
Made me smile.....memory flashback to my grandmother who used to yank my grandfather's hair when he got out of line....He used to say that was why his hair was still so thick in his 80's - because he was bad a lot. :D
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God damned right! The world needs more violence. Get those kids indoctrinated, the younger the better. Make every school bus driver sit through a course on child beating.
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I mean, hell yeah. I can't wait to beat other people's children publicly. Especially the ones that aren't white. They need it the most. /s
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Made me smile.....memory flashback to my grandmother who used to yank my grandfather's hair when he got out of line....He used to say that was why his hair was still so thick in his 80's - because he was bad a lot. :D
At least something I said made you smile! 8)
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What state would that be? Better than at any time in the history of mankind?
For baby boomers (like me).
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For baby boomers (like me).
What other point in history was preferable everyone else, then?
Don't get me wrong, I think the baby boomers were incredibly selfish and self-indulgent as a 'group', but it's not like the world is a horrible place compared to any other point in time.
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You know pretty much anyone who is spouting off about kids being rotten and their parents raising them rotten is childless. Without fail.
Because these people are apparently fantastic at raising imaginary kids. ::)
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You know pretty much anyone who is spouting off about kids being rotten and their parents raising them rotten is childless. Without fail.
Because these people are apparently fantastic at raising imaginary kids. ::)
Pretty shitty of you to shame people without children. You know there's a lot of people who can't physically have kids, right?
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You know pretty much anyone who is spouting off about kids being rotten and their parents raising them rotten is childless. Without fail.
Because these people are apparently fantastic at raising imaginary kids. ::)
We might not all have kids of our own, but we've all had parents. And most of us had parents who'd never tolerate us acting the way some of these little terrors are allowed to behave.
-k
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What other point in history was preferable everyone else, then?
Don't get me wrong, I think the baby boomers were incredibly selfish and self-indulgent as a 'group', but it's not like the world is a horrible place compared to any other point in time.
Baby boomers are the only generation in our country's history to be more prosperous than both their parents and their children.
They came, they had a big party, they puked on the carpet, and they left without helping clean up the mess.
-k
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What other point in history was preferable everyone else, then?
Don't get me wrong, I think the baby boomers were incredibly selfish and self-indulgent as a 'group', but it's not like the world is a horrible place compared to any other point in time.
My dad had a 10th grade education and worked at a paper box factory and was able to be the sole provider in a family with four kids. They had a house, a cottage at the lake that they paid cash for, a car, and cable colour TV. Then the boomers came along and did even better. A kid graduating high school now faces a choice of either years of post-secondary school leading to extravagant student loan debt and iffy prospects afterward, or they can choose a lifetime of servitude in a low-paying job where they can barely support themself, nevermind a family. I think they would disagree that the world is just as good as it ever was.
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Pretty shitty of you to shame people without children. You know there's a lot of people who can't physically have kids, right?
I never shamed people without children. I shamed people without children who get all judgy about something they have never done.
Double if they think violence is the answer.
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We might not all have kids of our own, but we've all had parents. And most of us had parents who'd never tolerate us acting the way some of these little terrors are allowed to behave.
-k
Everyone I know who feared their parents does not have a good relationship with them as an adult.
There are other ways to set boundaries and exert authority than violence and anyone who think the world is eff-ed up because we don't smack our children enough is an idiot who has no idea what parenting is about.
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How old was this kid? Looks old enough to know better.
I would never hit a kid in the head but mine certainly weren't above a rare slap on the ass as an attention getter when they got out of control. Fortunately it was a rare occurrence because I probably felt worse after than they did. I don't feel the need to tell others how to parent but do have a problem with those who just ignore their kids when they are out of control in public and being a general PITA to other people. Mine would have never got away with it and neither would I when I was a kid. Parenting is something everyone learns on the job and it is a lot harder than most people think. We've been very fortunate with the way our kids turned out but looking back, there are certainly things I would have done differently.
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I never shamed people without children. I shamed people without children who get all judgy about something they have never done.
Hey! Your bridge fell down the day after you built it!"
"Are you an engineer?"
"No."
"Well then, you have no right to criticize."
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My dad had a 10th grade education and worked at a paper box factory and was able to be the sole provider in a family with four kids. They had a house, a cottage at the lake that they paid cash for, a car, and cable colour TV.
But taxes were really, really low then. Because there were no public pensions, and very, very little in the way of other social services. Also, health care costs were far lower since we had almost none of the expensive high-tech stuff we have now. Half the population mostly didn't work, which led to that old supply/demand rule on wages. And he didn't have to compete with workers in China or India or automation. He probably wasn't paying anything for cell phone service or to his internet provider, or for multi tiered cable. Electricity was dirt cheap, as was gasoline, as was insurance. Oh, and the population was half what it is today, so land was a lot less valuable, and you could find cottages really cheap.
Then the boomers came along and did even better.
The biggest crime our boomers committed was they were willing to take all the goodies people like Trudeau offered them, but unwilling to pay for them. They wanted the pensions, but didn't want to pay for them. They wanted all the new social programs but low taxes. When their parents had a lot of kids they built schools. When the boomers had kids they said 'screw that, I ain't paying' and let them use portables. The boomers wanted to have their cake and eat it too, and they stuck the following generations with the bill.
But... we weren't talking about Canada's economy or lifestyle but 'the world' and 'the world' is by almost every measure infinitely better off today than it was forty or fifty years ago.
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Hey! Your bridge fell down the day after you built it!"
"Are you an engineer?"
"No."
"Well then, you have no right to criticize."
I think she is right. You can complain about a kid's behaviour all you want but don't assume you know the answers.
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Everyone I know who feared their parents does not have a good relationship with them as an adult.
There are other ways to set boundaries and exert authority than violence and anyone who think the world is eff-ed up because we don't smack our children enough is an idiot who has no idea what parenting is about.
I was raised by a single mother who could not afford to quit work so she made an arrangement with an old school friend of hers, who was married with two kids of her own, to keep me during the week. The lady of the house was very nice, the father a bit of a loud mouth and certainly a devotee of the "spare the rod, spoil the child" concept. My mom would pick me up after work on Fridays and take me to the grandparents farm for the weekend and then drop me off Sunday on her way back to the big city and work. One of those Sundays I raised hell, or at least as much hell as a three year old I could raise, stating that I wanted to "stay here with Nana and Gramps". They had already raised 6 kids, one of which being my mother of course, but I recall my Grandma saying "leave the boy here for the week and see how he likes it". Well that week turned into 13 years and the only reason we parted company was because they were laid to rest within about a year of each other. The point I'm getting to is that in that new environment I didn't not step out of line due to fear, I tried not to (I had my moments for sure but no one ever came close to laying a hand on me ) out of respect and love for the people who helping me along my way. As a result I was able to happily learn how to bake bread or an apple pie from Nana and also how to ride and shoe a horse from Gramps. I know that kids can be a pain in the arse at times, the terrible two's comes to mind, but I've never crossed the line to raise my hand.
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I think she is right. You can complain about a kid's behaviour all you want but don't assume you know the answers.
I never assumed I had all the answers. But if your kid has no self-discipline and no manners then you failed. If your kid is a whiny **** you failed. If your kid becomes a Donald Trump or a Paul Bernardo then you failed.
And contrary to her opinion, the harshest judgement of kids behaviour are parents who have well-behaved kids. Because they look at that and think there's no way in hell their kid would get away with acting like that.
Now I understand the difference of opinion between parenting methods involving hitting and not hitting. But clearly, from this kid's shocked response, hitting was a new experience. So I would suggest whatever other method was being used failed.
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I never assumed I had all the answers. But if you're kid has no self-discipline and no manners then you failed. If your kid is a whiny **** you failed. If your kid becomes a Donald Trump or a Paul Bernardo then you failed.
And contrary to her opinion, the harshest judgement of kids behaviour are parents who have well-behaved kids. Because they look at that and think there's no way in hell their kid would get away with acting like that.
Now I understand the difference of opinion between parenting methods involving hitting and not hitting. But clearly, from this kid's shocked response, hitting was a new experience. So I would suggest whatever other method was being used failed.
I guess from all that screed we will assume you are in favor of hitting kids.
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But clearly, from this kid's shocked response, hitting was a new experience. So I would suggest whatever other method was being used failed.
I don't understand? Are you saying that a kid shocked at being struck violently is a reflection of bad parenting?
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I never shamed people without children. I shamed people without children who get all judgy about something they have never done.
Double if they think violence is the answer.
If a kid is acting like an **** in public and their parent is doing sweet **** all about it, then I think anyone who has to tolerate the little **** has every right to say something, regardless of whether they've had kids or not. There are some really shitty parents out there.
Argus's assertion that we should be smacking other people's kids is ridiculous. However, there is something to be said about going out for dinner at a nice restaurant to unwind after a long week when the parents two tables over are letting their kids literally run around the restaurant screaming and climbing onto tables of other patrons.
Do you think the restaurant manager should have kids before they say something? Or do you think its the parents' responsibility to be a little more considerate of other people's space by keeping their kids in line? And what if they don't? When is it appropriate for someone else to say something?
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I have found a phrase that works fairly well when parents allow their children to run wild. One time on an airplane, the people behind me let their approx 2 - 3 year old kick the back of my seat non-stop. I put up with it for a while, hoping they would stop it themselves, but after a while, I peeked through the seats and said, "He needs to stop now." in a firm but kind, neutral tone of voice. I find that phrase works nearly all the time, because there's not much for them to argue with and I'm not making any comment on their parenting or the child.
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I have found a phrase that works fairly well when parents allow their children to run wild. One time on an airplane, the people behind me let their approx 2 - 3 year old kick the back of my seat non-stop. I put up with it for a while, hoping they would stop it themselves, but after a while, I peeked through the seats and said, "He needs to stop now." in a firm but kind, neutral tone of voice. I find that phrase works nearly all the time, because there's not much for them to argue with and I'm not making any comment on their parenting or the child.
I agree. I have been in that same scenario a number of times and applied the same approach and it seemed to always work. No need to hit anybody.
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If a kid is acting like an **** in public and their parent is doing sweet **** all about it, then I think anyone who has to tolerate the little **** has every right to say something, regardless of whether they've had kids or not. There are some really shitty parents out there.
Argus's assertion that we should be smacking other people's kids is ridiculous. However, there is something to be said about going out for dinner at a nice restaurant to unwind after a long week when the parents two tables over are letting their kids literally run around the restaurant screaming and climbing onto tables of other patrons.
Do you think the restaurant manager should have kids before they say something? Or do you think its the parents' responsibility to be a little more considerate of other people's space by keeping their kids in line? And what if they don't? When is it appropriate for someone else to say something?
Now you're changing the goal posts by bringing up badly behaved kids in a restaurant right after you misconstrued my argument by saying I'm shaming childless people?
I wasn't talking about kids in a restaurant, I'm talking specifically about this ridiculous type of thread... kids are **** because their parents raise **** because nobody smacks their kids anymore.
There are lots of shitty parents who don't set boundaries, who don't follow through with threats, who do all the kid's chores for them and allow the kids to talk back to them, of course, nobody denies that.
But this BS about making a correlation between decline of smacking and bad behaviour is nonsense and typical of someone who doesn't know what parenting is about.
Correlation doesn't prove causation.
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You can never smack/hit another parent's child. Mild smacking of your own child on your own property is fine, in public it should usually be avoided except in extreme circumstances.
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You can never smack/hit another parent's child. Mild smacking of your own child on your own property is fine, in public it should usually be avoided except in extreme circumstances.
I hope you're joking?
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I wasn't talking about kids in a restaurant, I'm talking specifically about this ridiculous type of thread... kids are **** because their parents raise **** because nobody smacks their kids anymore.
There are lots of shitty parents who don't set boundaries, who don't follow through with threats, who do all the kid's chores for them and allow the kids to talk back to them, of course, nobody denies that.
But this BS about making a correlation between decline of smacking and bad behaviour is nonsense and typical of someone who doesn't know what parenting is about.
I agree with you completely. You don't have to physically hurt a child in order to set firm boundaries.
The bad parents you speak of is more evidence of the ever-more pussification of our society. Parents being afraid of making their kids "feel bad" so they avoid punishing them or following through with threats, doing everything for their kids, not making them cook or do laundry etc., paying for everything, buying them cars when they get old enough, paying for their car insurance and everything else. Now we have had a couple of generations of adult children in their 20's and even 30's still living with their parents and still not cooking, cleaning etc. and they make excuses for them like the "tough job market" or "expensive housing" yet they expect the nicely furnished place and nice clothes etc. Wasn't long ago parents booted their kids out of the house at 18, then the kid got married had kids not too long after that, and had real adult responsibilities. And its not the kids' fault, it's the parents.
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I hope you're joking?
Why? I'm not saying hit your child. I'm saying if you're sitting around the house and your child does something horrible a little smack on the bum won't kill him, but not hard enough to make them cry. I wouldn't personally hit my kid.
You have the OP video, then you have this, a mom smacking her son who was doing protest rioting. Most people cheered this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5aNhO7c4qw
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Why? I'm not saying hit your child. I'm saying if you're sitting around the house and your child does something horrible a little smack on the bum won't kill him, but not hard enough to make them cry. I wouldn't personally hit my kid.
You have the OP video, then you have this, a mom smacking her son who was doing protest rioting. Most people cheered this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5aNhO7c4qw
Nor would I. The issue you might quell for the moment might just become a much more serious one down the road. I think there are many better ways of chastising children than resorting to violence.
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You can never smack/hit another parent's child. Mild smacking of your own child on your own property is fine, in public it should usually be avoided except in extreme circumstances.
If it's extreme circumstances, can we hit harder ? And in even more public circumstances ?
If my kid is being REALLY BAD can I smack him in the face with a cream pie ? During his own bar mitzfah ?
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I never assumed I had all the answers. But if your kid has no self-discipline and no manners then you failed. If your kid is a whiny **** you failed. If your kid becomes a Donald Trump or a Paul Bernardo then you failed.
This is not true. Parents can have an impact, certainly, but anyone who thinks parents are entirely responsible for how kids turn out has their head up their ass.
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Now I understand the difference of opinion between parenting methods involving hitting and not hitting. But clearly, from this kid's shocked response, hitting was a new experience. So I would suggest whatever other method was being used failed.
Also, kids of about this kids age, and especially boys and especially boys in the company of other boys, will behave in ways entirely different than how they've been raised. Sometimes kids just **** up, even good kids. Concluding a kid has lacked discipline or his parents are no good, or that he needs to be hit more based on a SINGLE VIDEO'd incident is just plain stupid.
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You know pretty much anyone who is spouting off about kids being rotten and their parents raising them rotten is childless. Without fail.
Because these people are apparently fantastic at raising imaginary kids. ::)
And without fail these mamby-pamby parents who weep over someone giving their kids a whack to discipline them are the ones with the shittiest behaving kids.
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And without fail these mamby-pamby parents who weep over someone giving their kids a whack to discipline them are the ones with the shittiest behaving kids.
We raised 3 very responsible and well behaved kids, and we never needed to demonstrate to them that violence is the way. Those who resort to violence are the ones raising kids who don't understand self discipline.
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I would venture a guess that kids that have now grown up and joined gangs who go around beating up people got there in part because they were themselves beaten up as kids. Violence begets violence. Is that not obvious?
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I would venture a guess that kids that have now grown up and joined gangs who go around beating up people got there in part because they were themselves beaten up as kids. Violence begets violence. Is that not obvious?
And I’d venture a guess that great scientists, learned philosophers and great architects were spanked as a child and turned out to be some of our best citizens.
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And I’d venture a guess that great scientists, learned philosophers and great architects were spanked as a child and turned out to be some of our best citizens.
And I'd venture a guess that the very best of those people learned from their parents rather than being beaten by them, which is what gave them the head start.
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And I'd venture a guess that the very best of those people learned from their parents rather than being beaten by them, which is what gave them the head start.
Yes... you’d be guessing.
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Yes... you’d be guessing.
So we're both guessing. Fair enough.
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And I’d venture a guess that great scientists, learned philosophers and great architects were spanked as a child and turned out to be some of our best citizens.
You don't need to hit or spank a child in order to discipline a child, to set firm limits etc. Just like you don't need to hit a dog in order to train it well.
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Everyone I know who feared their parents does not have a good relationship with them as an adult.
In my case, guilty as charged. But I have to believe that there's some kind of a happy medium.
There are other ways to set boundaries and exert authority than violence and anyone who think the world is eff-ed up because we don't smack our children enough is an idiot who has no idea what parenting is about.
When this topic comes along it seems like people always end up talking about two extremes-- the tyrants whose children live in fear, or the spineless ones whose children are completely out of control. I think most parents fit somewhere in the middle. I don't think most children live in fear of their parents, even those who have very strict parents.
-k
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even those who have very strict parents.
Being strict has absolutely nothing to do with inflicting violence.
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This is not true. Parents can have an impact, certainly, but anyone who thinks parents are entirely responsible for how kids turn out has their head up their ass.
You always take what someone says and then add in something like "ALL" or "ALWAYS" or "ENTIRELY".
People can fail for a variety of reasons, not always their own fault.
Paul Bernardo's parents failed. Donald Trump's parents failed. Was it entirely their fault? Wouldn't know.
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This is not true. Parents can have an impact, certainly, but anyone who thinks parents are entirely responsible for how kids turn out has their head up their ass.
I agree parents aren't entirely responsible, but they're very, very significant in how a kid turns out as an adult, more so than I realized in most of my life. Almost always more than any other factor besides possibly genetics of personality.
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I'm convinced the friends a child chooses are very important factor in what direction they go, and that is something a parent can't really control.