Canadian Politics Today
Beyond Canada => American Politics => Topic started by: Michael Hardner on September 15, 2018, 06:40:14 am
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https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/12/study-shows-two-thirds-us-terrorism-tied-right-wing-extremists
“A Quartz analysis of the database shows that almost two-thirds of terror attacks in the (United States) last year were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations,” its posting says.
The remaining attacks, the web site said, “were driven by left-wing ideologies … and Islamic extremism.”
The note says that global terrorism is waning, while stateside terrorism is increasing. When we say right-wing we don't mean conservative but the wing of paranoid anti-government types that are stoked by the cancerous paranoid-entertainment industry stateside.
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The remaining attacks, the web site said, “were driven by left-wing ideologies … and Islamic extremism.”
Islamic extremism is "right wing"
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Islamic extremism is "right wing"
This is heresy ! The punishment for heresy is extremism ! I'm an extremist now ! WHAT ?
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Islamic extremism is "right wing"
We have been over this before and your talking point is nonsense. It isn't. Islamic extremism seeks total control of the economy by the state and can only be described as left wing if one insists on using the woefully inadequate linear axis to define views.
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Islamic extremism seeks total control of the economy by the state and can only be described as left wing if one insists on using the woefully inadequate linear axis to define views.
It is you that keeps focusing on the linear axis. Here you are saying the only thing that defines Islamic extremism is the economic policy of ISIS in 2015. The fact that "economic policy" was simply a matter to finance terrorism is irrelevant. If you look at capitalist societies in times of war, their economic policy was no different.
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It is you that keeps focusing on the linear axis. Here you are saying the only thing that defines Islamic extremism is the economic policy of ISIS in 2015. The fact that "economic policy" was simply a matter to finance terrorism is irrelevant. If you look at capitalist societies in times of war, their economic policy was no different.
And Trump has no problem supplying billions worth of weaponry to places like Qatar and especially the Saudi's who use the jets and missiles to blow up the odd school bus. Sounds like right wing cronyism in support of terrorism to me.
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We have been over this before and your talking point is nonsense. It isn't. Islamic extremism seeks total control of the economy by the state and can only be described as left wing if one insists on using the woefully inadequate linear axis to define views.
lmfao
Words have meaning, Tim. You don't just get to make up your own bullshit because it stokes your partisan bias.
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Words have meaning, Tim. You don't just get to make up your own bullshit because it stokes your partisan bias.
Yes words have meaning and 'right wing' means believing in personal choices and small government. Left wing means big government and an emphasis on collective rather than individual rights. No one who is not a partisan hack would describe ISIS and other islamic extremists as anything other than left wing. Hell, the Quran even mandates specific economic rules such as the the ban on charging of a interest which is a classic left wing thinking.
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Yes words have meaning and 'right wing' means believing in personal choices and small government.
...except when it comes to who people have sex with, what they smoke, what they do with their own bodies, etc. When most conservatives talk about "freedom and small government", they really just mean they want low taxes and less regulations on corporations.
-k
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Yes words have meaning and 'right wing' means believing in personal choices and small government. Left wing means big government and an emphasis on collective rather than individual rights. No one who is not a partisan hack would describe ISIS and other islamic extremists as anything other than left wing. Hell, the Quran even mandates specific economic rules such as the the ban on charging of a interest which is a classic left wing thinking.
Do you actually think the Saudi Government give a fiddelly arse.... about individual rights?
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Islamic extremism is "right wing"
The analysis referred to in the article files Islamic extremism in its own category. It's not considered right wing for purposes of this study: "racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations."
-k
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Your headline is kinda fake news.
The web site you quote says 'two thirds of terrorism tied to right wing extremists" There is a vast difference between 'extremists' and 'groups'.
Second, the web site you're quoting gets its information from another, which says there were 65 'terrorist' incidents "tied to" right wing extremists. It does not, however, provide a list - for some reason.
So I went to the source they cited and did a search by country for 2017, which is the last year they offer up. Here are some of the attacks listed.
"12/07/2017: An assailant, identified as William Atchison, opened fire on students at Aztec High School in Aztec, New Mexico, United States. The assailant shot and killed two students and fired multiple shots at a locked classroom before shooting and killing himself. Statements Atchinson made in his suicide note and posted online reflect a fixation on mass shootings, as well as a misogynist and white supremacist narrative referenced in message forums where participants self-identify as "involuntarily celibate" (incel)."
For the most part, authorities don't call these sorts of attacks terrorism because they have no actual political objective, are not organized and are mostly the actions of kooks and losers not following any particular ideological or religious instructions, or goals. It is true that such an individual can be termed 'far right' but as we've discussed before, such people tend to be unstable, adn involved in more violence and crime quite incidental to whatever their racial or political views are.
Now some people would say he should be included anyway, just because he's far right. But we don't include any Muslim who commits violence. For example, right above this one was the following.
12/22/2017: An assailant opened fire on a Pennsylvania State Capitol Police vehicle near Strawberry Square in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, United States. At least one officer was injured in the assault. Officers pursued the assailant to the intersection of 17th Street and Mulberry Street, where he was shot and killed. This was one of two attacks targeting police officers in Harrisburg on the same day. No group claimed responsibility; however, authorities identified the assailant as Ahmed Aminamin El-Mofty.
The motive for this is not categorized as jihadi inspired but 'unknown'
There was the following, too:
11/07/2017: Assailants broke a window and put a bomb on the window sill at Women's Health Practice at 2125 South Neil Street, Champaign, Illinois, United States. The device failed to detonate and was defuse by authorities. No group claimed responsibility for the incident; however, sources attributed the attempted attack to the White Rabbit Three Percent Illinois Patriot Freedom Fighters Militia.
They've assigned a 'perpetrator group' despite no actual evidence.
Incident Summary:
10/31/2017: An assailant set fire to the predominantly black St Paul Missionary Baptist Church in Richland Parish, Louisiana, United States. There were no reported casualties in the attack. No group claimed responsibility; however, sources identified the assailant as a white extremist.
Incident Summary:
10/28/2017: Assailants threw incendiary devices into Circo Bar, a gay club, in Santurce neighborhood, San Juan, Puerto Rico. There were no reported casualties in the attack. No group claimed responsibility; however, sources identified the assailants as anti-LGBT extremists.
Again, no actual evidence.
Incident Summary:
"10/22/2017: An assailant breached a secure area of an Amtrak passenger train, travelling from California to Missouri and triggered an emergency stop in Oxford, Nebraska, United States. There were no reported casualties, and the assailant, identified as Taylor Michael Wilson, was detained by Amtrak personnel. No group claimed responsibility for the incident; however, authorities stated that Wilson possessed neo-Nazi literature and had previously expressed an interest in "killing black people."
According to the media reports he was high, and pulled the emergency brake to 'save the train from black people". Uh...
10/08/2017: Around 11:00 p.m.m two assailants shouting racial slurs and white supremacist statements attacked a black man in Spokane, Washington, United States. The assailants attacked Norris Cooley, pointed a handgun at him, and fired at least six shots into Cooley's occupied home. The two unaffiliated individuals, identified as Jason Edward Cooper and Donald Lucas Prichard, white extremists, claimed responsibility for the incident and stated racial slurs during the attack.
This one seems to me like a hate-motivated attack, but I don't think I'd call it terrorism.
Here's a big one, responsible for most of the 'far right extremist' deaths.
"10/01/2017: An assailant opened fire from the Mandalay Bay Hotel on the Route 91 Harvest Festival concert in Las Vegas, Nevada, United States. At least 58 people were killed and 851 people were injured in the attack. The assailant shot and killed himself before police reached him. No group claimed responsibility for the incident; however, authorities identified the assailant as Stephen Paddock, an anti-government extremist. Witnesses overheard Paddock espousing anger over the 1990s standoffs in Waco, Texas and Ruby Ridge, Idaho. Paddock also expressed concern over the US government "confiscating guns."
As far as I know nobody has yet determine his motive. But this web site is stating he was an anti-government extremist and saying that motivated him.
Meanwhile:
06/21/2017: An assailant armed with a knife stabbed Lieutenant Jeff Neville at Bishop International Airport in Flint, Michigan, United States. Neville, a police officer, was injured in the attack. Amor Ftouhi claimed responsibility for the incident and made statements about deaths caused by the United States government in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan during the attack.
Is described as an 'anti-government extremist' not a jihadi.
The whole thing seems problematic to me. They're not being very careful with their evidence or determinations.
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/Results.aspx?page=2&casualties_type=b&casualties_max=&start_yearonly=2016&end_yearonly=2017&dtp2=all&country=217&expanded=no&charttype=line&chart=overtime&ob=GTDID&od=desc#results-table
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I have to look at your examples in full.
they have no actual political objective, are not organized and are mostly the actions of kooks and losers not following any particular ideological or religious instructions, or goals.
This isn't a requirement to label crimes as Muslim terrorism either. One guy yelling 'god is great' can constitute Muslim terrorism. I don't think they remove motive for mental incapacitation.
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lmfao
Words have meaning, Tim. You don't just get to make up your own bullshit because it stokes your partisan bias.
..and you selectively only apply that to Tim G,s response and not your own or the idiotic misleading title of MH,s thread? Right.
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MH the title of your thread is not consistent with the thread. Your thread only refers to alleged sources of terorism in the US not the world but your thread title does not...and because it does not, the title nelcesarily lends to the impression you are stating all terrorism across the world not just the terrorism in the US is right wing and then state a deliberately ambiguous reference to right wing that refuses to define it but certainly makes a comment to protect yourself from the anticipation of being accused of smearing conservatives for your definition of right wing.
Then you further mislead avoiding the blatantly obvious and that is that Islamic extremism is the most common cause or inspiration for terrorism across the planet and off course is right wing it does not believe workers have the right to form unions and engage in collective bargaining and question the structure of the system imposed by sharia law on its labour conditions or practices.
The fact is you wanted to start a thread deflecting from the actual world wide rates of Muslim terrorism and did a half baked job at it.
Please....if your agenda is to deflect from the actual causes of terrorism and its connection to fundamentalist Islam with pseudo definitions that hide the actual causes go ahead but finish what you started.
What is your agenda? Do you want to deny the role, connection and rate of Islamic terrorism and suggest some mythological beasts called the right wingers causes terrorism not Muslims? Well? Provide the evidence who these right wingers are and how you determined they were right wingers and not left wingers or Muslims. Please finish what you started.
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Fact is you wanted to start abthrwad deflecting from the actual world wide rates of Muslim terrorism and did a half baked job at it.
I do not believe that was his motivation. He is currently obsessed with the idea of 'the far right', that amorphous, ill-defined group whose numbers are unknown but held to be responsible for all of society's ills and divisions.
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I do not believe that was his motivation. He is currently obsessed with the idea of 'the far right', that amorphous, ill-defined group whose numbers are unknown but held to be responsible for all of society's ills and divisions.
Nope, just 2/3 of it's terrorism. Quite clear in the thread title.
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I have to look at your examples in full.
This isn't a requirement to label crimes as Muslim terrorism either. One guy yelling 'god is great' can constitute Muslim terrorism. I don't think they remove motive for mental incapacitation.
Why is there no requirement to properly report terrorism when it is connected to Islamic beliefs?
It is illogical not to accurately report the motives that fuel the terrorist mind and understand their cause and effect with the expression of violent, terrorist, criminal and any other human behaviour.
Your last sentence appears contradicted by you by the statement before it. In one breath you make the illogical pronouncement that you will not consider motive if it's connected to Islam then in the next sentence babble about not removing motive for mental incapacitating.
What a weak attempt to deny the connection between Muslim religion and how it's used or inspired people to become mentally incapacitated, violent, terrorist, criminal.
Do you exempt all religions with this blindness or just Islam?
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I have to look at your examples in full.
This isn't a requirement to label crimes as Muslim terrorism either. One guy yelling 'god is great' can constitute Muslim terrorism. I don't think they remove motive for mental incapacitation.
Your first comment is illogical. Of course to properly understand what causes terrorism one must properly identify it as Islamic religion if that was the motivation behind it. Properly understanding how Islam is used to justify terrorism is essential to understand the causal connection between the two.
Interestingly you unilateral command in your first comment to ignore Islam if it is connected to terrorism, then in the next sentence suggest people should not remove motive for mental incapacitation when you just did in the sentence before is quite the contradiction. Do as I say not as I do?
On the one hand according to you if Islam is used to mentally incapacitate someone, Iie by inspring them to engage in terrorism, you say ignore it. Then in the next sentence say do not ignore motive.
What a clumsy attempt to try suggest we be selective and exempt linking Islam to terrorism.
Then again you presented an idiotic reference that exempts examin8ng Islamic terrorist attacks in the US and determines Islamic terrorism is not right wing but different and you throw it out misleading your audience in believing the article you referred to considered Islamic terrorist attacks in the US let alone the world.
What selective b.s. Spit it out. Deny Islam fuels terrorism if that is your agenda.
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Why is there no requirement to properly report terrorism when it is connected to Islamic beliefs?
It is illogical not to accurately report the motives that fuel the terrorist mind and understand their cause and effect with the expression of violent, terrorist, criminal and any other human behaviour.
Your last sentence appears contradicted by you by the statement before it. In one breath you make the illogical pronouncement that you will not consider motive if it's connected to Islam then in the next sentence babble about not removing motive for mental incapacitating.
What a weak attempt to deny the connection between Muslim religion and how it's used or inspired people to become mentally incapacitated, violent, terrorist, criminal.
Do you exempt all religions with this blindness or just Islam?
You seem to be of the mindset (not unlike argus) that if anyone who's name is Abdullah is involved in a crime then they must be involved in a wave of Islamic terrorism, but if their name is Billy Bob, oh well then they are just a misguided individual. There is no factual data to support the concept. There is actually evidence that shows that immigration in both the US and Canada has occurred at the same time as crime decreased. However if you want to study what can create a terrorist backlash then look at the terrorism for instance the US rained down on Iraq for years for no valid reason, and you can trace that directly to the formation of ISIS. The pilots flying into the WTC buildings weren't Iraqi's, they were mostly Saudis. I don't recall any war being declared on the house of Saud, do you?
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...except when it comes to who people have sex with, what they smoke, what they do with their own bodies, etc. When most conservatives talk about "freedom and small government", they really just mean they want low taxes and less regulations on corporations.
Which is why i prefer the quadrant system rather then a simple axis to describe political views: https://www.politicalcompass.org/
Authoritrians exist on the left and the right and their desire to control other's behaviors is independent of the economics. That does not change the fact that the left-right axis is a based on economics and the view of the role of government vs private enterprise. By that measure ISIS and other such extremists are most definitely left wing.
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Which is why i prefer the quadrant system rather then a simple axis to describe political views: https://www.politicalcompass.org/
Authoritrians exist on the left and the right and their desire to control other's behaviors is independent of the economics. That does not change the fact that the left-right axis is a based on economics and the view of the role of government vs private enterprise. By that measure ISIS and other such extremists are most definitely left wing.
Ah no, extreme right wing. Generally they believe in kings and dictators, theocracies, the suppression of women, and the killing of anyone outside the group. Now that's ISIS writ large.
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Deny Islam fuels terrorism.
Terrorists using religion to justify their actions is not the same thing as the religion fueling terrorism. If we used your "logic", then I could equally say right wing ideals fuel terrorism.
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Haters gonna hate.
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You seem to be of the mindset (not unlike argus) that if anyone who's name is Abdullah is involved in a crime then they must be involved in a wave of Islamic terrorism, b
I challenge your intellectual dishonest exercise in accusing me of believing if I co-relate Islamic fundamentalism to terrorism I assume all Muslims are terrorists.
Nowhere did I suggest that. In fact you projected this belief on me when in fact it is you not I who believes correlating Islamic fundamentalism to terrorism necessarily suggests all Muslims are terrorists.
Your assumptions and inferences are dishonest in representing what I demonstrated and are illogical. My statement limits itself to the correlation of Islamic fundamentalist extremis thought not all Muslims. In fact one who is not a Muslim but agrees and embraces Islamic fundamentalism could use that as their motive to commit terrorism so your inference is nonsensical set alone illogical. It is illogical because a specific thought process that fuels terrorism is not synonomous with all religious thought processes of that individual, just those teaching and inciting terrorism.
Next I disgree with Sir John and he can apologize for MH all he wants the title of this thread is false, and does not match the content of the threa with the content of the thread and refers to all terrorism not just terrorism in the US. As well it is a ridiculous thread in that the article quoted does not even consider Islamic fudnamentalist inspired terrorism in its considerations when discussing the causes or sources of terrorism int he US.
Next to suggest as this thread does that the fact that Islamic fundamentalism is not the primary cause of terrorist attacks in the US does not mean it is not the primary inspiration of terrorist beliefs in the US because those two categories are not one and the same.
The fact is no one can say how many people are walking around anywhere harbouring terrorist thoughts and who and what inspires those thoughts. The stats we have report attacks after they happen or hate or violence is manifested not before.
I start with this source:
http://blog.safe-passage.com/16-latest-global-terrorism-trends-facts-and-figures-from-gti-2016
The above refers to R the fourth edition of the Global Terrorism Index (GTI) released in Nov. of 2016, by the Institute for Economics & Peace (IEP) which analyzes key global terrorism trends and patterns for 163 countries and examined over 150,000 terrorist incidents worldwide during a 16-year time frame beginning in 2000 through the end of 2015.
I would suggest the above parameters offer a far more accurate base from which to consider terrorism and its sources, i.e., those carrying it out not some incomplete analysis of the US.
It reported that:
1-from 2013 to 2014, 76 countries improved their GTI scores while 53 countries worsened and that the deteriorated global GTI score was a result of record highs in acts of terrorism in France, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Burundi and was the second deadliest year on record;
2- in 2015, 92 countries recorded at least one terror attack compared to 93 the previous year.;
3- terrorism remains concentrated in five countries. Iraq, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Pakistan, and Syria where terrorism accounted for 72 percent of all deaths from terrorism in 2015;
4- every year since 2012, these same five countries have been named most affected by terrorism;
5-nearly half of all terrorism incidents occurred in just four countries. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India which experienced nearly 50 percent of all attacks;
6-four main groups were responsible for 74 percent of all terrorism deaths- Boko Haram, the Taliban, and al-Qa’ida and In 2015, ISIL reclaimed its title from Boko Haram as the deadliest terrorist group;
7-more countries than ever reported their highest number of terrorist incidents-mainly attributed to ISIL, its affiliates, and supporters of the group being active in 28 countries, more than double the amount of countries active for 2014;
8-the Taliban had its deadliest year on record-in Afghanistan, the Taliban averaged four deaths per attack, killing a total of 4,502 people in 2015;
9-Terrorism is largely centralized in three regions: The Middle East and North Africa (MENA), South Asia, and sub-Saharan African regions, accounting for 84 percent of terrorist attacks and 95 percent of terrorism deaths.
I again contend, a meaningful, intellectually honest discussion of the sources of terrorism does not arbitrarily look at only one site of possible terrorist attacks let alone exclude from consideration all possible sources of terrorism.
I again contend, it is intellectually dishonest to throw out so,me half assed ambiguous reference to "right wingers" without properly defining this category and explaining the difference between a "right winger" and a religious funndamentalist Muslim sympathizer or believer in terrorism.
As for Omni's attempt to deflect and turn this into a personal accusation that I hate Muslims because I have contended what I have is b.s.
Unlike Omni I lived with terrorism and understand the no.1 source of today's world wide terrorism is Islamic extremism and this extremism kills ironically more Muslims than it does bleeding heart trendy Trudeau groupies.
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Which is why i prefer the quadrant system rather then a simple axis to describe political views: https://www.politicalcompass.org/
Authoritrians exist on the left and the right and their desire to control other's behaviors is independent of the economics. That does not change the fact that the left-right axis is a based on economics and the view of the role of government vs private enterprise. By that measure ISIS and other such extremists are most definitely left wing.
Let me put it out there: it is leftist trendy intellectual dishonesty to deflect from what the sources of terrorism-these self appointed politically righteous and correct trendy leftists pronounce if a causal connection between terrorism to Islamic fundamentalism is shown that is necessarily politically incorrect, but hey, if you want to draw that correlation of terrorism to people in any category these leftists consider incorrect, then its o.k.
This thread is all about a bunch of self appointed saints telling us what we can think or discuss. The fact they even use labels like right and left shows the simplistic black and white categories that have to riigidly adhere to because they can't fathom any other colours. I use the words trendly leftist in mock disgust for them. I have no idea whether they are left, right or both.
My impression is that these allegedly progressive, morally righteous leftists are fascists. I find a fine line between National Socialists and leftists and fascists. I fail to see any right or left to any of them-their commonality is a lack of individualism, creativity and a need to label and stereotype all things they don't agree with as evil.
Its why I sided with Frakenstein when they came running out of their village with the torches screaming they should kill him.
I think Frankenstein is the guy who gets my vote not them. I also think the Munchkins were a bunch of commies. You ask me only Toto made any sense in that whole movie. The flying monkeys? Those are the politically correct on this forum. I like to think of myself as Aunti Em's husband. They gave ne a bit role in all of this damn story and I wanted to be the Scarecrow.
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Unlike Omni I lived with terrorism and understand the no.1 source of today's world wide terrorism is Islamic extremism and this extremism kills ironically more Muslims than it does bleeding heart trendy Trudeau groupies.
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Well let's see, over the years I have lived/worked in Somalia, Syria, India, Iran, Afghanistan, and Iraq so there's another faulty assumption. And in the latter a lot of the terror was caused by bombs falling from George Bush's airplanes. So where did you say you lived with terrorism?
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3- terrorism remains concentrated in five countries. Iraq, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Pakistan, and Syria where terrorism accounted for 72 percent of all deaths from terrorism in 2015;
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5-nearly half of all terrorism incidents occurred in just four countries. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India which experienced nearly 50 percent of all attacks;
I'm confused
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Let me put it out there: it is leftist trendy intellectual dishonesty to deflect from what the sources of terrorism-these self appointed politically righteous and correct trendy leftists pronounce if a causal connection between terrorism to Islamic fundamentalism is shown that is necessarily politically incorrect, but hey, if you want to draw that correlation of terrorism to people in any category these leftists consider incorrect, then its o.k.
Uh oh. Taxme has taken you over.
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Uh oh. Taxme has taken you over.
That would seem to be right. Basically taxme with more spelling errors. But essentially the same shythole.
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Omni when you revert to name calling and typo whining it's clear you can not address the issues. You mdae a false accusation because I contend there is a cause and effect between Islamic extremism and terrorism that I am a bigot against all Muslims. That is false, I have explained the basis for my contentions and you of course hand no clue how to respond to them.
NEXT yes I make typos. I use a small device and I have a cognitive disorder from an illness that garbled letters and numbers. In spite of that I carry on and I try my best to edit the errors when I can. The typos are not a reflection as to the veracity or basis from which I postulate but I appreciate when you have no response you deflect. As for Dia equating me as an equivalent to a white supremacist when she knows damn well what I stand for it simply attests to the crap level you two have lowered yourself in responses. The two of you need to grow up.
I will challenge anyone on this board misrepresenting or selectively ignoring the cause and effect, triggers and sources of global terrorism or fabricating b.s right wing deflection devices to avoid discussing terrorism.
You have problems with my typos whoopy sheeyat. Any of you want to call me a bigot because you can not deal with issues..bring it.
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Omni when you revert to name calling and typo whining it's clear you can not address the issues. You mdae a false accusation because I contend there is a cause and effect between Islamic extremism and terrorism that I am a bigot against all Muslims. That is false, I have explained the basis for my contentions and you of course hand no clue how to respond to them.
NEXT yes I make typos. I use a small device and I have a cognitive disorder from an illness that garbled letters and numbers. In spite of that I carry on and I try my best to edit the errors when I can. The typos are not a reflection as to the veracity or basis from which I postulate but I appreciate when you have no response you deflect. As for Dia equating me as an equivalent to a white supremacist when she knows damn well what I stand for it simply attests to the crap level you two have lowered yourself in responses. The two of you need to grow up.
I will challenge anyone on this board misrepresenting or selectively ignoring the cause and effect, triggers and sources of global terrorism or fabricating b.s right wing deflection devices to avoid discussing terrorism.
You have problems with my typos whoopy sheeyat. Any of you want to call me a bigot because you can not deal with issues..bring it.
I wasn't calling anyone names I was responding to what I saw and have seen here regularly that because there is terrorist activity among Muslim communities that one should not therefore assume that all Muslim's must be terrorists.
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Terrorists using religion to justify their actions is not the same thing as the religion fueling terrorism. If we used your "logic", then I could equally say right wing ideals fuel terrorism.
Any ideology, if taken to extremes, can fuel violence. But people tend to be more zealous about religious ideology than political ideology - especially if the religion in question is also highly political.
And of course, the components of that ideology are important. Jesus' mostly preached peace and love and good fellowship. That is the central focus of his message. People have still manged to interpret parts of the bible to endorse and support violence. The Koran's central message is most assuredly NOT peace, love and good fellowship. If it has one central message it is "All must submit to Islam". And it has a lot to say about the horrible people who refuse, and how to treat them.
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I wasn't calling anyone names I was responding to what I saw and have seen here regularly that because there is terrorist activity among Muslim communities that one should not therefore assume that all Muslim's must be terrorists.
And who has done such a thing?
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You seem to be of the mindset (not unlike argus) that if anyone who's name is Abdullah is involved in a crime then they must be involved in a wave of Islamic terrorism,
Like most of what you say, this is complete bullshit. I've in fact made it clear in recent texts that you can't do any such thing. Muslims can be criminals just like Christians. A Muslim criminal is a criminal unless their criminal actions are sustained to some degree by their religious beliefs and values. For example, there seems to be a good deal of evidence that all those Pakistani **** clubs in the UK were sustained by interpretations of the Koran which say it's okay to **** non-Muslims. They **** thousands of young girls, but they confined themselves to white girls, leaving Muslim girls alone.
Likewise there are interpretations - mainstream ones - that say it's all right for a man to commit violence on his wife. So that can be suggested as a religious sustenance for domestic abuse. There is no law in any Muslim nation that prevents a man from raping his wife, either. That is not a coincidence.
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And who has done such a thing?
Um, you.
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I'm confused
Yah that would not surprise me. Willi your brain explode if you find out where India is on a map?
Terrorism in India over the years has arisen in the Punjab with Seikh factions, in Kashmir with Pakistani Muslim extremists and Indian Hindu and Seikh nationalists and Muslim extremists have carried out terrorist attacks in India including Mumbai.
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I wasn't calling anyone names I was responding to what I saw and have seen here regularly that because there is terrorist activity among Muslim communities that one should not therefore assume that all Muslim's must be terrorists.
Yes you claimed I appear to be a bigot.. Also thanks for pointing out the above but not pointing out the same thing about 'right wingers'. Why is your selective concern only for Muslims. Should I accuse you of being a bigot against al right wingers?
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Do you actually think the Saudi Government give a fiddelly arse.... about individual rights?
No and hey will you take a guess why? In that selective mind of yours do you want to explain how any Sharia law nation or the religion it claims to enforce promotes individual rights?
Also explain how you notice Saudi Arabian intolerance but do not correlate it to its interpretation of Sharia law and how you selectively ignore Muslim extremism and it's correlation to terrorism financed by , organized in and carried out in Iran, Bahrain, the UAE, Turkey, Pakistan, Yemen, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Morrocco, Niger Chad, Mali, Nigeria, Dahomey, Senegal, Kenya, the Philippines, China, Russia, Somalia, India, and the over 500 Muslim terror cells operating globally?
Hey now you notice such things? You point out more Muslims are killed by Muslim terrorists than any Ameircan bomb...who you?
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Um, you.
Cite.
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Terrorism in India...
Not what I was confused about. You provided 2 seemingly conflicting statements.
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You seem to be of the mindset (not unlike argus) that if anyone who's name is Abdullah is involved in a crime then they must be involved in a wave of Islamic terrorism, but if their name is Billy Bob, oh well then they are just a misguided ...
Omni please do not deny you accused me of being an anti Muslim bigot. Your words are blatant.
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Terrorists using religion to justify their actions is not the same thing as the religion fueling terrorism. If we used your "logic", then I could equally say right wing ideals fuel terrorism.
Please explain how terrorists using their Muslim religion to justify their terorist actions are not examples of terrorists using their religion to fuel their terrorism. You claim they are different, but do not explain the difference. Do explain the difference.
Next if you used logic then you would know logic would dictate the two are one and the same.
As well using logic one could not state right wing beliefs, left wing beliefs, Muslim beliefs, any beliefs could fuel terrorism but it would depend on the context they are used.
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Not what I was confused about. You provided 2 seemingly conflicting statements.
I cited information. Please explain the conflicting statements. I think you are suggesting because 50% of terrorist attacks were reported in 4 countries, and then of that 50% in the 4 countries, 50% of that was in 1 of the 4 countries, India, that may have confused you.
I understand you get confused. You might want to try ginseng tea.
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Well let's see, over the years I have lived/worked in Somalia, Syria, India, Iran, Afghanistan, and Iraq so there's another faulty assumption. And in the latter a lot of the terror was caused by bombs falling from George Bush's airplanes. So where did you say you lived with terrorism?
So you lived in countries with terrorism. Hey now is it not interesting all you noticed was George Bush bombs and you will not acknowledge the Muslim extremist terrorist attacks and and crimes in these nations.
This is how I know you are either being intellectually dishonest, deaf, dumb and blind andsomeone with an anti American bias to the point of rendering your comments assinine.
Unlike you I saw Muslim extremist terrorism first hand and put the body parts in bags. I witnessed mothers trying to fight to keep these scum from using their children as bombs.
I have been spit on thank you by Ultra orthodox Jews who believe Israel should not exist, extremist Israeli settlers and had Muslim women throw urine at me.
Save your selective outrage for the US for someone else. For you to have claimed to be in these countries and refuse to acknowledge the correlation between Musim extremism and terrorism is pathetic.
Go on tell everyone about how evil the US is. Finish what you started.
Tell me did you really think that anti Yankee bomb throw in supports your bias?
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So you lived in countries with terrorism. Hey now is it not interesting all you noticed was George Bush bombs and you will not acknowledge the Muslim extremist terrorist attacks and and crimes in these nations.
This is how I know you are either being intellectually dishonest, deaf, dumb and blind or someone with an anti American bias to the point of rendering his comments assinine. Then again it could be all 3.
Unlike you I saw Muslim extremist terrorism first hand and put the body parts in bags. I witnessed mothers trying to fight to keep these scum from using their children as bombs.
I have been spit on thank you by Ultra orthodox Jews who believe Israel should not exist, extremist Israeli settlers and had Muslim women throw urine at me.
Save your selective outrage for the US for someone else. For you to have claimed to be in these countries and refuse to acknowledge the correlation between Musim extremism and terrorism is pathetic.
Go on tell everyone about how evil the US is. Finish what you started.
Tell me did you really think that anti Yankee bomb throw in supports your bias?
Yes of course there was home grown terrorism in those countries. Now then to set you straight, George Bush ordered the bombing of Iraq apparently in retaliation to the Twin Tower event on 9-11, at least according to him, and yet of course Iraq had nothing to do with it. And now there is ample evidence that that mistaken war begat a little something you've probably heard of...ISIS. What is pathetic is the failure of people, like yourself, to acknowledge the facts. The folks in those planes on 9-11 were Saudis mostly (unless of course you are of the same ilk as hotenough etc. who are crazy conspiracy theorists) and I didn't see a bomb dropped there. And now Trump is providing those terrorists with a few hundred billion worth of US made weaponry. Hey let's go bomb a school bus in Yemen
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I have not discussed the issues raised by you in your Iraq reference as they do not address the issue of who commits terrorism globally and what motivates them. You raised the above precisely to avoid acknowledging the issues I raised to deflect from them because you clearly have no idea how to respond to what I raised. Your first deflection was calling me an anti Muslim bigot which you lamely denied and to whine about my typos. Now you want to go off on a tangent about Bush and Iraq.
I have contrary to what you said, stated on this and other forums that the US did questionable things in Iraq linked to Haiburton contracts and treatment of civilians, soldiers and terrorists and you know I have..
I also stated unlike you, Hussein used gas on innocent Kurds and I applaud the US taking him out. I also unlike you distinguish the US armed forces from Dick Chaney, Haliburton, and the mercenaries contracted by them and the CIA.
I am upfront and blatant in my support of the US Armed Forces and their role in taking out Hussein. I do not selectively engage as you do.
You do not acknowledge that in fact the US armed forces called out Haliburton and Chaney. You smear them all in one anti American category and you make no reference to Hussein, Iran, any Muslim terrorist, Muslim terrorists in Iraq or across the world just the nation of Saudi Arabia which no one has defended in this or any thread.. This is why I find your selectivity lacking in credibility.
You only select bits and portions of the entire context that suit your biases. Yah I know you think Hussein should have been left in office to continue gassing people. Yah I heard that one before. It's why Israel was recreated and people like me find pseudo liberals like you as dangerous as fascist Muslim extremists. You make excuses for them and make them out to be victims of colonialism. Horse crap.
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I have not discussed the issues raised by you in your Iraq reference as they do not address the issue of who commits terrorism globally and what motivates them. You raise the above precisely to avoid acknowledging the issues I raised to deflect from them because you clearly have no idea how to respond to what I raised. Your first deflection was calling me an anti Muslim bigot which you lamely denied and to whine about my typos. Now you want to go off on a tangent about Bush and Iraq.
I have contrary to what you said, stated on this and other forums that the US did questionable things in Iraq linked to Haiburton contracts and treatment of civilians, soldiers and terrorists and you know I have..
I also stated unlike you, Hussein used gas on innocent Kurds and I applaud the US taking him out. I also unlike you distinguish the US armed forces from Dick Chaney, Haliburton, and the mercenaries contracted by them and the CIA.
I am upfront and blatant in my support of the US Armed Forces and their role in taking out Hussein. I do not selectively engage as you do.
You do not acknowledge that in fact the US armed forces called out Haliburton and Chaney. You smear them all in one anti American category and you make no reference to Hussein, Iran, any Muslim terrorist, Muslim terrorists in Iraq or across the world just the nation of Saudi Arabia which no one has defended in this or any thread.. This is why I find your selectivity lacking in credibility.
You only select bits and portions of the entire context that suit your biases. Yah I know you think Hussein should have been left in office to continue gassing people. Yah I heard that one before. It's why Israel was recreated and people like me find pseudo liberals like you as dangerous as fascist Muslim extremists. You make excuses for them and make them out to be victims of colonialism. Horse crap.
You contradicted yourself enough times here I'm not going to bother with a serious reply. Beyond "dumb"
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Hot on the heels of the MAGAbomber, we have a shooting at a synagogue in Pittsburgh.
His motivation appears to be that he believed that THE JOOS are behind the Honduran caravan. HIAS is the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, a charity that started out 130 years ago to help Jewish Russians settle in New York. These screenshots are from the killer's social media...
(https://i.imgur.com/p59DsBw.png)
The killer hated Trump... because he's not fascist enough. He thinks Q-Anon has the answer.
(https://i.imgur.com/vsPrgU0.png)
In fact, thinks Trump is just another pawn of the Jewish masterminds:
(https://i.imgur.com/1LrtJhe.png)
-k
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I'm just hearing the death toll from the PA. synagogue is now at 10.
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I'm just hearing the death toll from the PA. synagogue is now at 10.
11
I've never understood antisemitism. I suppose I can see why people might find the more ultra-Orthadox to be goofy and at times irritating, but most Jews seem to be pretty much like you, me and everyone else. I know this has a religious origin but as far as I know none of the morons obsessed with Jews are particularly religious, so I frankly just don't get it. It leaves me baffled.
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11
I've never understood antisemitism. I suppose I can see why people might find the more ultra-Orthadox to be goofy and at times irritating, but most Jews seem to be pretty much like you, me and everyone else. I know this has a religious origin but as far as I know none of the morons obsessed with Jews are particularly religious, so I frankly just don't get it. It leaves me baffled.
Yes up to 11 now, and 6 still recuperating in hospital. I hope they recover OK. I don't follow any religion even though my father was Jewish, but I respect peoples rights to follow whatever faith they choose. We'll see eventually I guess, what drove this whacko on this murderous rampage.
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11
I've never understood antisemitism. I suppose I can see why people might find the more ultra-Orthadox to be goofy and at times irritating, but most Jews seem to be pretty much like you, me and everyone else. I know this has a religious origin but as far as I know none of the morons obsessed with Jews are particularly religious, so I frankly just don't get it. It leaves me baffled.
Maybe I'm misreading your post, but this seems to imply that you do understand other types of bigotry?
Personally, I don't understand hating anyone for the colour of their skin, ethnic origin, gender, sexual preference or religious affiliations. Which of those do you "get"?
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It's now up to 74% of terror attacks in the US being from right wing extremists:
https://twitter.com/ShadowingTrump/status/1056236161558024193
And while we're on this, the AR 15 seems to really be the weapon of choice:
https://twitter.com/MichaelSkolnik/status/1056229748332994561
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Good deal for Trump... he doesn't seem phased by this at all.
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I've never understood antisemitism. I suppose I can see why people might find the more ultra-Orthadox to be goofy and at times irritating, but most Jews seem to be pretty much like you, me and everyone else. I know this has a religious origin but as far as I know none of the morons obsessed with Jews are particularly religious, so I frankly just don't get it. It leaves me baffled.
They're usually well-educated, ambitious and hardworking, make a lot of money in good professions, don't seem to commit a lot of crimes, and seem to mind their own business etc. They're like the perfect citizen really. I don't get it either. I want more of them!
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It comes from a time when they were the only ethnic group, and non-Christian at that. Lots of racist stories of them stealing communion bread and crazy ****. Also they were forced into certain occupations, their prevalence in which became fodder for more racist stories.
You just have to follow the story of the Jews to understand how racism works for every group.
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Good deal for Trump... he doesn't seem phased by this at all.
Well, his daughter-wife is Jewish so...
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Well, his daughter-wife is Jewish so...
He has learned how to execute 'the big lie'. He's emboldened and that is bad.
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It is worth noting that it looks like what pushed him over the edge was that caravan of 'refugees' being so heavily publicized in the US media. His main target wasn't just Jews but the Jews involved in a refugee advocacy group called HIAS. I don't know if they were actually involved or not but guys like this rarely think straight or require a lot of evidence.
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Well, his daughter-wife is Jewish so...
Ironic that he uses a playbook that could have been written by Joseph Goebbels.
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It is worth noting that it looks like what pushed him over the edge was that caravan of 'refugees' being so heavily publicized in the US media. His main target wasn't just Jews but the Jews involved in a refugee advocacy group called HIAS. I don't know if they were actually involved or not but guys like this rarely think straight or require a lot of evidence.
The issue that put him over the edge may have been the caravan and HIAS, but the guy clearly had an intense hatred of Jews and is a firm believer in the "ZOG" (Zionist Occupying Government, I believe that stands for-- the notion that a secret cabal of Jews is the real power running all western nations) and is an avid Holocaust denier. After his name became publicly known, people found his profile on a social network called "Gab" (which is basically where alt-right people go after they get banned from Twitter) and have posted a trove of screenshots of his rantings.
His intense hatred for Jews was not limited to those working for HIAS. HIAS is based in New York City, not Pittsburgh. The caravan might have been the last straw, but this is a guy whose hatred for Jews was already intense.
This article talks a bit more about what "Gab" is:
https://www.businessinsider.com/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-gab-2018-10
And it includes this link has an archive of some screenshots of the killer's anti-Jewish rantings:
https://web.archive.org/web/20181027160428/https://imgur.com/a/cwB9QkR
Aside from the usual stuff about Holocaust denial and the supposed genocide of white people, there's also plenty of 4chan memes. He was a big fan of Pepe the frog.
-k
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I'm surprised the guy got out of that building alive. That kind of a stunt, especially in the US, is usually like signing your own death warrant.
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Ironic that he uses a playbook that could have been written by Joseph Goebbels.
I stated in a previous response I felt Trump's attempt to polarize Americans using the Immigration issue and calling out the caravan was Hitlerian. I have to agree with you. His references, his language, his calling on people to hate, his exploitation of anger, his constant tone of inciting division, it has set the stage for whipping lunatics up. For me as a Jew the Hitlerian incitement using immigrants as an excuse to fan and incite anger is Trumps way of getting his supporters out to vote.
The fact his daughter married a Jew also incites the very extremists as well as left wing Jewish haters.
I think it's never a good time to be a Jew. The extreme right call us world controlling monsters but so does the trendy let alone extreme left. Using Israel and Zionism as an excuse for expressing anti semitism is on the left and extreme right.
As a Jew I know what it means when Trump proudly refers to himself as a Nationalist. He runs his rallies like the Nazis did. The only thing missing is the salute.
I say to blacks and Christians, we almost had another disaster with the other mad man who could not get in the church and shot to black people in their backs because they were black.
We had that crazy mail bomber this week, the lunatic who shot up the gay bar, attacks on people praying in churches, mosques, now this. ON and on the suicide of the US unfolds.
Where is and when are leaders going to come out and say enough. Trump is not the sole blame, forvthus, that is too easy, but he sure as hell set the tone for these latest attacks. He is using his words as gasoline poured on fire. He has failed to lead. He has spent two years attacking and destroying his own nation. Sadly he is an agent of bitterness and hatred not inspiration. It's sad to see the level the US has dragged itself down to. Sad indeed. More massacres will come. It is the direct result of a leader fanning hatred to pander to it to stay in power. Trump is a fascist using hatred and fear to rally his followers and like Hitler Trump will go the way he came, with a violent outcome. People like Trump do not leave legacies, only ruins.
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I think it's never a good time to be a Jew.
:'( I don't understand it. And anti-semitism is brewing in the world again.
Where is and when are leaders going to come out and say enough. Trump is not the sole blame, forvthus, that is too easy, but he sure as hell set the tone for these latest attacks. He is using his words as gasoline poured on fire. He has failed to lead.
Sadly, I don't think Trump is the CAUSE of all the hatred and upheaval, but I think he has certainly EMBOLDENED those who already have prejudices to be more vocal and it motivates some of them to take action.
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Where is and when are leaders going to come out and say enough. Trump is not the sole blame, forvthus, that is too easy, but he sure as hell set the tone for these latest attacks. He is using his words as gasoline poured on fire.
It should also be noted that Trump has taken resources meant to combat extreme right-wing activity (which is the cause of the majority of terrorist attacks in the U.S.) and diverted it towards stopping Islamic terrorism (which causes far fewer attacks and deaths than right wing extremism.) So not only is Trump's "tone" fueling the recent attacks, but his direct policies.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/trump-shut-countering-violent-extremism-program/574237/
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:'( I don't understand it. And anti-semitism is brewing in the world again.
Sadly, I don't think Trump is the CAUSE of all the hatred and upheaval, but I think he has certainly EMBOLDENED those who already have prejudices to be more vocal and it motivates some of them to take action.
Trump says now in during one of his rally speeches that the death penalty must be brought back. You would think in his job he would know that the death penalty has been on the books for decades, especially in PA. Now whether or not it's an effective deterrent is another story.
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It should also be noted that Trump has taken resources meant to combat extreme right-wing activity (which is the cause of the majority of terrorist attacks in the U.S.) and diverted it towards stopping Islamic terrorism (which causes far fewer attacks and deaths than right wing extremism.) So not only is Trump's "tone" fueling the recent attacks, but his direct policies.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/trump-shut-countering-violent-extremism-program/574237/
Seg with due respect the money for counter intelligence in the US is not being diverted to anti immigration policies. The budgeting is completely different. The Us has a complex myriad of levels of security at federal, state, county city, township levels all engaging in counter intelligence. Then there are the 4 branches of the military service that do the same. Treasury, Homeland Securty, the FBI, DEA, NSA, ATF, all engage in counter intelligence. Budgets are not being diverted. They in fact overlap. The same people who investigate extremism don't ignore neo Nazis any more than they do anyone else. They follow the issues of the day. Again there is no proof attention to right wing extremism has been cut let alone channeled against Muslims or immigrants or anyone in particular.. It does n
Such evidence does not existbits a leftistvtrendy myth because counter intelligence units don't choose who is violent- their work arises as a reaction to those who are violent, period. They all are of equal danger. All extremists are their concern.
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Set with due respect the money for counter intelligence in the US is not being diverted to anti immigration policies. The budgeting is completely different. The Us has a complex myriad of levels of security at federal, state, county city, township levels all entail g in counter intelligence. Then there are the 4 branches of the military service that do the same. Treasury, Homeland Securty, the FBI, DEA, NSA, ATF, all engage in counter intelligence. Budgets are not being diverted. They in fact overlap. The same people who investigate extremism don't ignore neo Nazis any more than they do anyone else. They follow the issues of the day. Again there is no proof attention to right wing extremism has been cut. It does not exist because counter intelligence doesn't choose who is violent, they react to those who are violent gto try contain them. All extremists are their concern.
Yeah sure. Meanwhile Trump says go ahead and punch people in the nose and I'll pay your legal bills.
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Yah sure. I guess that summarizes the totality of your in depth expertise on counter intelligence.
United States Army Intelligence
Army Intelligence & Security Command
Air Force Office Of Special Investigation
Defence Counterintelligence and Human Intelligence Centre
Diplomatic Security Service, US Secretary of State
FBI
NCIS
US Marine Corps Counterintelligence Branch
Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive
CIA
Secret Service, and other Treasury Dept. Units
Homeland Security
DEA
ATF
city police forces
State police forces
Sheriffs departments
US Marshall Service
The above are just a few of the organizations investigating extremists. You and no one else has a clue how their budgets are allocated and what they investigate. To suggest you do and know it's being used to single out Muslims let alone ignore right wing extremists like this thread is baseless. You are a knee jerk band wagon jumper who jumps on trendy causes like a dog in heat.
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Yah sure. I guess that summarizes the totality of your in depth expertise on counter intelligence.
United States Army Intelligence
Army Intelligence & Security Command
Air Force Office Of Special Investigation
Defence Counterintelligence and Human Intelligence Centre
Diplomatic Security Service, US Secretary of State
FBI
NCIS
US Marine Corps Counterintelligence Branch
Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive
CIA
Secret Service, and other Treasury Dept. Units
Homeland Security
DEA
ATF
city police forces
State police forces
Sheriffs departments
US Marshall Service
The above are just a few of the organizations investigating extremists. You and no one else has a clue how their budgets are allocated and what they investigate. To suggest you do and know it's being used to single out Muslims let alone ignore right wing extremists like this thread is baseless. You are a knee jerk band wagon jumper who jumps on trendy causes like a dog in heat.
Nice list. Irrelevant but, nice list.
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Yah sure. I guess that summarizes the totality of your in depth expertise on counter intelligence.
(List of law enforcement agencies cut for length)
The above are just a few of the organizations investigating extremists. You and no one else has a clue how their budgets are allocated and what they investigate. To suggest you do and know it's being used to single out Muslims let alone ignore right wing extremists like this thread is baseless. You are a knee jerk band wagon jumper who jumps on trendy causes like a dog in heat.
Did you actually read the link that I provided? It specifically mentions changes in funding. For example,it specifically mentions the shutdown of programs aimed at curtailing extreme right-wing racism.
Yes, I do recognize that there are still law enforcement groups that deal with issues of right wing extremism. I never claimed that the issue was being totally ignored at this point. My point was that it was getting LESS attention now, when it should be getting GREATER attention.