Canadian Politics Today

Federal Politics => Canadian Politics => Topic started by: cybercoma on August 23, 2018, 01:06:55 pm

Title: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: cybercoma on August 23, 2018, 01:06:55 pm
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/08/23/maxime-bernier-quits-conservatives-new-party_a_23508059/

Quote
HALIFAX — Maxime Bernier is forming his own pan-Canadian political party.

The party will be based on right-wing free-market principles. A senior advisor told HuffPost it could be comparable to Alberta's Wildrose party.

"I don't know what's going to happen. It's a big gamble," a source close to Bernier told HuffPost Canada Thursday morning. "But Maxime, he is there to defend his ideas. He doesn't want to make any more compromises." (cont...)

News at 11.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 23, 2018, 04:41:14 pm
Wow!

Good luck forming a new party and finding 338 candidates for each riding and the funding to lead a nationwide campaign within the next year.

Bernier sounds like a sore loser who wants Scheer's CPC to lose more than he wants the Liberals to lose.  What a huge tactical mistake.  Admire his gumption I guess?
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2018, 04:50:45 pm
Wow!

Good luck forming a new party and finding 338 candidates for each riding and the funding to lead a nationwide campaign within the next year.

Bernier sounds like a sore loser who wants Scheer's CPC to lose more than he wants the Liberals to lose.  What a huge tactical mistake.  Admire his gumption I guess?

I suspect Scheer will succeed in losing without any help from Bernier or anyone else. I suspect people don't trust him not to turn to the extreme right. He hastily promised not to re visit issues such as access to abortion, which I think I think gives people pause to think that's exactly what he would do.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: wilber on August 23, 2018, 05:11:38 pm
I suspect Scheer will succeed in losing without any help from Bernier or anyone else. I suspect people don't trust him not to turn to the extreme right. He hastily promised not to re visit issues such as access to abortion, which I think I think gives people pause to think that's exactly what he would do.

It's something their opponents always try to stick on the Conservatives, they did it with Harper and they will do it with every CPC leader regardless of who it is. Nine years of Harper and nothing but that doesn't matter, it's politics.

Trudeau must be very happy today.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 23, 2018, 05:41:28 pm
I suspect Scheer will succeed in losing without any help from Bernier or anyone else. I suspect people don't trust him not to turn to the extreme right. He hastily promised not to re visit issues such as access to abortion, which I think I think gives people pause to think that's exactly what he would do.

That was the fear with Harper too, his "hidden agenda" that never happened.  If Scheer wanted to take away say abortion rights or gay marriage rights  the CPC would be swiftly voted out the next election, which is why the Harper gov never messed with those issues.

If Scheer loses I think it's because yes he has some views many people don't like but he's also not that likeable, has a permanent weird grin, and doesn't seem like a strong leader.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2018, 05:52:03 pm
That was the fear with Harper too, his "hidden agenda" that never happened.  If Scheer wanted to take away say abortion rights or gay marriage rights  the CPC would be swiftly voted out the next election, which is why the Harper gov never messed with those issues.

If Scheer loses I think it's because yes he has some views many people don't like but he's also not that likeable, has a permanent weird grin, and doesn't seem like a strong leader.

Never messed with those issues?
Ever heard of "The Unborn Victims of Crime Act" which Harper voted for but of course died on the order paper.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 23, 2018, 06:45:32 pm
Never messed with those issues?
Ever heard of "The Unborn Victims of Crime Act" which Harper voted for but of course died on the order paper.

No never heard of it.  Looked it up.  Interesting.

It wasn't an abortion law, but I see your point, it could be considered "abortion creep", that's probably what the NDP argued, legit concern.  26 or so Liberals voted "yes" on it too:

The bill summary: "This enactment amends the Criminal Code by making it an offence to injure, cause the death of or attempt to cause the death of a child before or during its birth while committing or attempting to commit an offence against the mother."

So there's cases of domestic violence in Canada of men killing the fetus and can't be charged with killing it because it isn't legally human for existing laws to matter and no law covering fetuses.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: SirJohn on August 23, 2018, 07:02:36 pm
I think Bernier was angry at the party not giving him a position and not taking him seriously. When he talked about the possible disunity of too much diversity he was attacked by a number of prominent party people, in part because I think the leadership is sensitive to him trying to position himself as a rival to Scheer. That affronted his sense of dignity. Then within days the party was attacking Trudeau in a similar vein, over that woman in the field. I think he got indignant over that - evidence his later tweets. But what he doesn't seem to get is Trudeau gave them cover to attack him on the subject. And I think Michelle Rempel, the Tory immigration critic, came out with some reasonable talking points about reforming immigration, partly in response to him and partly to the recent poll showing half of Canadians thought immigration was too high. He should have worked with her instead of getting insulted, picking up his toys and marching off into the sunset.

A number of media observers have pointed out that if he had any real support within caucus they'd have been at the podium with him. But he was alone. I don't think he's going to get the kind of money and support necessary to start any kind of realistic alternative party in Canada. It's possible he might do something in Quebec, but his lack of language skills are going to hamper him elsewhere.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: SirJohn on August 23, 2018, 07:08:11 pm
I suspect Scheer will succeed in losing without any help from Bernier or anyone else. I suspect people don't trust him not to turn to the extreme right. He hastily promised not to re visit issues such as access to abortion, which I think I think gives people pause to think that's exactly what he would do.

More sorry-assed secret agenda bullshit. "oooooo! He's pro choice! Oooooo! Scary scary! He's going to ban abortion!!"

Maybe if you people on the far fringes of the far left had policies that people didn't laugh at you wouldn't constantly have to demonize everyone else.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Omni on August 23, 2018, 07:17:49 pm
More sorry-assed secret agenda bullshit. "oooooo! He's pro choice! Oooooo! Scary scary! He's going to ban abortion!!"

Maybe if you people on the far fringes of the far left had policies that people didn't laugh at you wouldn't constantly have to demonize everyone else.

Calm down argus, your bp must be getting high. Harper cast his ballot on this issue, that's a matter of record. And you certainly don't have to be on whatever you refer to as "the far fringes" to support pro choice.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on August 23, 2018, 08:14:50 pm
Bernier called the Conservatives “morally and intellectually bankrupt”.  Ouch.

Should be interesting to see what kinds of candidates this party will attract.  It sounds like it will be shooting for a more conservative platform than the current CPC.  I wonder if anyone will jump ship onto the new party from the CPC.   They might have several elected MPs right from day 1 of the party.  This will help them immensely.

Quote
Good luck forming a new party and finding 338 candidates for each riding and the funding to lead a nationwide campaign within the next year.

He should be able to siphon off existing CPC MPs and donations.  I don’t see this as an issue.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: cybercoma on August 24, 2018, 06:54:32 am
you people on the far fringes of the far left
Would you stfu with this nonsense already. Nobody on this forum is on the fringes of the far left. Do you see people calling for the bombing of pipelines? Attacking businesses who won't unionize? Talking about arresting bankers, seizing assets, etc? Your extreme hyperbole makes it look like you're incapable of making arguments without creating stupid caricatures of the positions you're arguing against.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: cybercoma on August 24, 2018, 06:55:47 am
Bernier called the Conservatives “morally and intellectually bankrupt”.  Ouch.

Should be interesting to see what kinds of candidates this party will attract.  It sounds like it will be shooting for a more conservative platform than the current CPC.  I wonder if anyone will jump ship onto the new party from the CPC.   They might have several elected MPs right from day 1 of the party.  This will help them immensely.

He should be able to siphon off existing CPC MPs and donations.  I don’t see this as an issue.
If Bernier becomes prime minister will Ford Nation be a nation within a Bernier Nation?
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: SirJohn on August 24, 2018, 11:40:32 am
Would you stfu with this nonsense already. Nobody on this forum is on the fringes of the far left.

Where would you put yourself on the political spectrum? You appear to have considerably more affection for Marxism than Capitalism, for example.

Quote
Do you see people calling for the bombing of pipelines? Attacking businesses who won't unionize? Talking about arresting bankers, seizing assets, etc?

That you have no power to do so does not mean you would not be pleased to have a government which represents your views do so.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: SirJohn on August 24, 2018, 11:42:10 am
Calm down argus, your bp must be getting high. Harper cast his ballot on this issue, that's a matter of record. And you certainly don't have to be on whatever you refer to as "the far fringes" to support pro choice.

Given I am pro choice that is certainly not an issue. At issue is the rabid intolerance of different views, opinions and beliefs you and the others on the far left exhibit on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: wilber on August 24, 2018, 11:54:29 am
The Act was a private members bill resulting from a campaign promise made by Harper. It wasn't a "secret agenda". Regardless  of how he voted, he was PM for another seven years and never raised the issue again. We will have to wait and see Scheer's platform.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2018, 12:14:47 pm
Bernier hasn't left himself a lot of time to get a whole new party together given the date of the next election. I heard an interview with Steven Fletcher who served in Harper's cabinet and he claims the party is split and Maxine could end up with significant support from half the party. When asked directly if he would join Bernier he wouldn't say one way or another. He did conclude though that the whole issue was going to help the Liberals the most. 
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: chilipeppers on August 24, 2018, 01:48:37 pm
The Act was a private members bill resulting from a campaign promise made by Harper. It wasn't a "secret agenda". Regardless  of how he voted, he was PM for another seven years and never raised the issue again. We will have to wait and see Scheer's platform.
Andrew Scheer has allready made it clear he will not impose his religious beliefs on Canadians so anyone saying otherwise is just fear mongering as they did with Harper. 
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: guest18 on August 24, 2018, 02:14:08 pm
Andrew Scheer has allready made it clear he will not impose his religious beliefs on Canadians so anyone saying otherwise is just fear mongering as they did with Harper.
Still, they have every right not to vote for him for that reason though, just as people can choose not to vote for the NDP for fear their leader is a religious extremist.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: SirJohn on August 24, 2018, 02:31:56 pm
Still, they have every right not to vote for him for that reason though, just as people can choose not to vote for the NDP for fear their leader is a religious extremist.

No one ever mentions Singh's religion, though, and how it might impact any government he might lead. I don't think I've even mentioned it in that context.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: wilber on August 24, 2018, 03:56:38 pm
Andrew Scheer has allready made it clear he will not impose his religious beliefs on Canadians so anyone saying otherwise is just fear mongering as they did with Harper.

I tend to agree. Chrétien is a practicing Catholic but he never tried to impose either his religious views or the church’s doctrine on these issues.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: guest18 on August 25, 2018, 07:38:05 am
No one ever mentions Singh's religion, though, and how it might impact any government he might lead. I don't think I've even mentioned it in that context.
That's the only thing I've ever heard mentioned about him. I don't even know his name because people just call him the new guy with the turban and I know who they're talking about.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: SirJohn on August 25, 2018, 09:09:01 am
That's the only thing I've ever heard mentioned about him. I don't even know his name because people just call him the new guy with the turban and I know who they're talking about.

No, his turban, his religion is brought up in the context of his continuing interest and campaigning for Sikh separatism and his associating with some people who praise terrorists (though Liberal hands are not clean there either). This guy has spent a great deal of time on the subject, including flying over to India numerous times to defend Sikh terrorist suspects in Indian courts. All of which helps to reinforce the sense of 'other' about him, and questions about just where his loyalties lie.

But no one, as far as I know, has actually asked him questions about his Sikh religious beliefs and how they might impact his behaviour and what laws he might enact should he ever become PM.

Btw interesting that a guy running a party which believes deeply in diversity supports separatism for HIS people in India. Apparently the grand diversity there is unappealing.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 25, 2018, 09:23:29 am
1) No, his turban, his religion is brought up in the context of his continuing interest and campaigning for Sikh separatism and his associating with some people who praise terrorists (though Liberal hands are not clean there either). 

2) But no one, as far as I know, has actually asked him questions about his Sikh religious beliefs and how they might impact his behaviour and what laws he might enact should he ever become PM.

3) Btw interesting that a guy running a party which believes deeply in diversity supports separatism for HIS people in India. Apparently the grand diversity there is unappealing.
1) Continuing ?  Not sure about that.
2) I'm going to assume you missed this and that it was not a fib on your part but this was a huge story early on:

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-march-16-2018-1.4577977/jagmeet-singh-s-view-of-sikh-separatism-under-scrutiny-after-appearances-at-rallies-1.4578161

Terry Milewski covered the Air India bombing and seems to have a personal interest in the topic.

3) Separatism and multiculturalism are separate but related.  Do you expect Israel to be 100% multicultural ?  I don't.  But Canada can do that.  There are certain places where people need self-determination for various reasons.  The so-called 'new world' was built on immigration and people leaving protestant, catholic, and other religious and cultural dominations.

That all being said, I do believe scrutiny of Christian politicians is considered to be ok, different somehow than others.  Example:

Even beyond Quebec, religiosity is rarely addressed in the public square (Stephen Harper's habit of punctuating his speeches with "God bless Canada" being a notable exception).


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wherry-jagmeet-singh-1.4119920

But... it's qualitative.  Could a Muslim Candidate for MP punctuate his speeches with Allah Akbar ?  Uh, no.  But would a Muslim candidate's support for pro-life positions be scrutinized as much as a Christian's ? I would say no.

There is no consistency in how these things are covered because there is no consistency in the mass Canadian consciousness between how these things are scene.  The media, though, could spend a little time addressing "meta-coverage" and explain why they do these things.  Why not ?

Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: SirJohn on August 26, 2018, 10:44:27 am
1) Continuing ?  Not sure about that.

The mainstream media might not longer be discussing it. Canadians are.

Quote
2) I'm going to assume you missed this and that it was not a fib on your part but this was a huge story early on:

Reread what I said. I said his being a Sikh is discussed in terms of his sympathy or alleged sympathy for Sikh separatism. Your cite was all about that and in no way contradicted what I said. But where is any discussion of his actual religion and his apparently deeply religious views and how that might impact his behaviour as a prime minister?

Quote
3) Separatism and multiculturalism are separate but related.  Do you expect Israel to be 100% multicultural ?  I don't.  But Canada can do that.

Not a good comparison. Sikhs don't have an independent state. They are part of India. Why is Singh not urging his fellow Sikhs to revel in the diversity of India and embrace the Indian multicultural state rather than go their own way?

Quote
But... it's qualitative.  Could a Muslim Candidate for MP punctuate his speeches with Allah Akbar ?  Uh, no.  But would a Muslim candidate's support for pro-life positions be scrutinized as much as a Christian's ? I would say no.

No. Certainly not. How often have Muslim candidates been confronted by the media and directly asked their opinions on homosexuality? On blasphemy laws? It may have occurred but I've never seen it.

Quote
There is no consistency in how these things are covered because there is no consistency in the mass Canadian consciousness between how these things are scene.

I disagree. This is entirely a media thing. The Canadian media is largely quite liberal and don't dare raise the same questions of 'ethnic' candidates they would routinely raise about religious Christians. It is, I think, the bigotry of low expectations, which we see so much of. The media do not hold ethnic candidates to the same standard.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Michael Hardner on August 26, 2018, 02:30:21 pm
The mainstream media might not longer be discussing it. Canadians are.

What is the evidence that he is continuing to discuss Sikh separatism though ?

Quote
Reread what I said. I said his being a Sikh is discussed in terms of his sympathy or alleged sympathy for Sikh separatism. Your cite was all about that and in no way contradicted what I said. But where is any discussion of his actual religion and his apparently deeply religious views and how that might impact his behaviour as a prime minister?

Well... that part they do NOT ask of Prime Ministers.  They did ask him about separatism though.  What else is there to be concerned about ?  I don't know.

Quote
Not a good comparison. Sikhs don't have an independent state. They are part of India. Why is Singh not urging his fellow Sikhs to revel in the diversity of India and embrace the Indian multicultural state rather than go their own way?

It's like telling Quebec to be multicultural and allow English speakers to have more rights.  Or Saudi Arabia.  Or Israel.  There are politically acceptable examples of 'homelands' for certain peoples.  That is just the political reality.  Canada and the US don't need it, but Israel and some other places sometimes do.  That's what the Sikh homeland question is about.

Quote
No. Certainly not. How often have Muslim candidates been confronted by the media and directly asked their opinions on homosexuality? On blasphemy laws? It may have occurred but I've never seen it.

No, but would a Muslim party leader be asked that ?  I think the answer is 'yes' based on Singh.

Quote
I disagree. This is entirely a media thing. The Canadian media is largely quite liberal and don't dare raise the same questions of 'ethnic' candidates they would routinely raise about religious Christians. It is, I think, the bigotry of low expectations, which we see so much of. The media do not hold ethnic candidates to the same standard.
  Maybe, but the core point is to not expect consistent behaviour so much, from a group.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 11, 2021, 02:57:11 pm
Maxime Bernier, nutbar, has been arrested :D

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/maxime-bernier-manitoba-taken-into-custody-1.6062801
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 11, 2021, 03:23:36 pm
Maxime Bernier, nutbar, has been arrested :D

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/maxime-bernier-manitoba-taken-into-custody-1.6062801

The interesting part to me is that he was completely mainstream and within a point of winning the CPC nomination for leader.
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 11, 2021, 04:59:04 pm
There's a long list of people who fallen from grace.. and a lot of them are right wing.. Sarah Palin, Rudy Giuliani, Geraldo Rivera
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 11, 2021, 06:23:14 pm
There's a long list of people who fallen from grace.. and a lot of them are right wing.. Sarah Palin, Rudy Giuliani, Geraldo Rivera

Ummm…. A very American list….
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 11, 2021, 06:28:45 pm
Bernier and his party of loony Conservative rejects are completely irrelevant in Canadian politics.  They can’t even take away votes from the CPC. 

The anti-vax, anti-mask idiocy is a desperate attempt to be relevant.  The loony CPC supporters don’t seem to want to jump ship to Bernier….   At least not yet.  Maybe this will increase their percentage a bit….
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: BC_cheque on June 11, 2021, 06:32:35 pm
The interesting part to me is that he was completely mainstream and within a point of winning the CPC nomination for leader.

Let's see where Peter McKay ends up in a few years. 
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: waldo on June 12, 2021, 01:12:56 pm
(https://media.winnipegfreepress.com/images/400*533/Maxime+Bernier1.jpg)

former Harper Conservative cabinet minister... in the CPC leader election, {finally} lost to Andrew Scheer on the 13th voting round! MadMax indeed! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1403548077319868424/pu/vid/1280x720/QrLR9l3MGkRMe1XR.mp4?tag=12) {h/t @ajhtweeting}
Title: Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 12, 2021, 04:11:56 pm
I feel that the conservatives siphoning off the dumbest voters also allows the Liberals to not have to worry about dumbing down their agenda.