Canadian Politics Today
Beyond Politics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Boges on February 13, 2018, 01:28:50 pm
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Since anyone who has any opinion on sports bolted from MLW and came here, I thought I'd open up another discussion on the Toronto Raptors.
They are SOOOOOO Good. They have an excellent shot at the NBA Finals.
Not only have the All Star Backcourt improved, but they are able to field an entire second unit that can actually extend leads. In their last 5 wins, no player has played more than 30 minutes.
These guys make me almost forget about the Leafs.
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So I had this kid over to my place a few weeks ago - it was a party - and he was interested in sports so I asked about the Raps. Apparently, the big change in approach that is making them so good is eliminating the idea of a 'system' and just playing wide open. As a musician, I see a great analogy. The Grateful Dead always shone best when improvising but in sports ?
Is it so ?
Also - has anybody done that before ?
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I’m follow the Raptors religiously. Here’s a lot of season left, but it’s been promising so far. Shadow Team has been killing it, especially VanVleet.
The “New Look” Cavs certainly had a strong showing against the Celtics the other night. It’ll be interesting to see if they gel on time for the playoffs.
Rockets are also tearing it up out west. Their record is practically the same as the GSW. Thats turning into an interesting battle too.
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So I had this kid over to my place a few weeks ago - it was a party - and he was interested in sports so I asked about the Raps. Apparently, the big change in approach that is making them so good is eliminating the idea of a 'system' and just playing wide open. As a musician, I see a great analogy. The Grateful Dead always shone best when improvising but in sports ?
Is it so ?
Also - has anybody done that before ?
I don’t think it’s quite like that. Instead of relying on a couple stars, they’ve been playing as a team more. Theyve built more trust around each other and are moving the ball more. You can tell from the stats too. Their assists are much higher this year.
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I don't know the game. This was explained to me by a 'fan'.
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Just elaborating.
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Just elaborating.
I was never great at sports but I love systems and theories. And sports are a great place to test strategies. As such I am intrigued by the idea that no strategy might be a good strategy.
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I don’t think it’s quite like that. Instead of relying on a couple stars, they’ve been playing as a team more. Theyve built more trust around each other and are moving the ball more. You can tell from the stats too. Their assists are much higher this year.
Ultimately it needs to be Kyle and Demar winning close games, like tonight's against Miami. In previous years they had been playing more "Iso-Ball". Meaning everyone knew their Allstar backcourt was taking all the big shots. Now they still should be taking big shots at the end of quarters, halfs and games. See Kyle's buzzer beater at the half tonight?
What the bench mob provides is depth so they can let Kyle and Demar sit large swaths of games. My favourite bench mob player is Delon Wright. He's not the best shooter by his paint penetration ability is $$.
They've also, finally, realized that 3's are worth more than 2's and 3 quarters of the team can usually hit uncontested 3's. Even JV is able to hit 3s when given an open look.
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The threes are good and aimmglad they’re hitting them, but sometimes they get too stubborn about it when they’re cold. Against a team that’s not shooting threes, like Miami, they should be more concerned with making every possession count.
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Miami was shooting plenty of 3's. Matty D made the point of saying that they actually take more 3's Toronto.
If you can create an open look to take a 3, you should always take it. Pros should be able to make uncontested 3's most of the time. And that's the benefit of the ball movement, more open looks behind the arc.
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They were tonight, but what I’m talking about is Derozan taking threes with a foot in the line or just bricking them every time down. Hey don’t all need to be threes. The Raptors aren’t the Warriors and shouldn’t try to be..
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Since anyone who has any opinion on sports bolted from MLW and came here,
I also missed talking Game of Thrones with you last season. :(
-k
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"It was so bad that Colin Kaepernick stood up."
-an anonymous netizen describing Fergie's "unique" rendition of the Star Spangled Banner at the All-Star Game.
"I don't know what she was going for, but if it was supposed to be my friend's drunk mom trying to act sexy, she nailed it."
-another netizen.
I only saw a few regrettable moments of it during a highlights package. I think that probably it's not quite as bad as Roseanne Barr's attempt, but Roseanne Barr was trying to be funny and somehow I doubt that Fergie was trying to be funny. Not on purpose.
-k
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"Why is Fergie singing the national anthem like she's trying to give John F. Kennedy an ****?"
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Why was BNL doing the Canadian National Anthem?
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"Let's make some BASKETBALLLLLL!!!"
-k
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Why was BNL doing the Canadian National Anthem?
Because the league operates in Canada.
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I was simply replying that the choice of actual singers can always be questioned.
It was noted the Fergie has won several Grammies. FWIW.
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The end of that Piston game two nights ago was probably one of the more exciting things I've seen in Sports.
Good test tonight against the #1 team in the West: Houston Rockets.
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The end of that Piston game two nights ago was probably one of the more exciting things I've seen in Sports.
Good test tonight against the #1 team in the West: Houston Rockets.
That game was nuts. Pistons were hungry. That dunk by Derozan was unreal. He cut his finger on the dunk. I joked, "Derozan is willing to bleed in order to draw up a play; that's dedication," since they were out of timeouts. Freddy hitting that long two after running dry all night was great to see too.
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Here's something: I WATCHED THE GAME.
The Raptors seemed mostly in control until the very end but even then the other team never tied it. I WILL watch playoff basketball, I decided. Now to convince Mrs. Joan Hardner (not her real name).
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Did you take notes and put them in your brief case?
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Did you take notes and put them in your brief case?
Ok, this briefcase meme is getting a little weird.
But... are briefcases sexy ? Because if they are I can let this go.
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Depends on the person, I guess. Some prefer boxer cases.
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Depends on the person, I guess. Some prefer boxer cases.
Peeee-YEW.
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http://www.capebretonpost.com/sports/toronto-raptors-through-to-next-round-with-102-92-win-over-wizards-205830/
Raptors to NEXT round. Should I get ready to watch yet ? :D
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You should have been watching all along
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You should have been watching all along
I'm a fair weather fan. 40 years of failure for the Leafs had me put them on the proceed-with-caution list for fandom.
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I'm a fair weather fan. 40 years of failure for the Leafs had me put them on the proceed-with-caution list for fandom.
Well they play their nemesis, the Cavs, in the next round. It's do or die.
I'm glad Freddie van Fleet is back.
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Do they have a chance this time? Or will they just get squashed again? Each year they say "this year's Raptors are different!" but somehow they never seem to get any farther.
-k
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That narrative kills me. They lost to the champs two years ago. And last year they lost to the Cavs again, who went on to lose in the finals to GSW.
The only team to knock them out of the playoffs in the last couple of seasons were the Cavaliers, who have the greatest player of this generation on their team.
You didn't say they "choked" but a lot of people do. This is silly, since that would mean they expected the Raptors to beat Lebron. I mean, I guess that's a compliment, but everyone knows Lebron is one of the greatest of all time. They've got their work cut out for them, as does ANY team that plays the Cavs. The only team to beat them in the playoffs are the Golden State Warriors and 4/5 of their starters are All-Stars. To criticize the Raptors for not doing it is a bit silly, imo.
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That narrative kills me. They lost to the champs two years ago. And last year they lost to the Cavs again, who went on to lose in the finals to GSW.
The only team to knock them out of the playoffs in the last couple of seasons were the Cavaliers, who have the greatest player of this generation on their team.
You didn't say they "choked" but a lot of people do. This is silly, since that would mean they expected the Raptors to beat Lebron. I mean, I guess that's a compliment, but everyone knows Lebron is one of the greatest of all time. They've got their work cut out for them, as does ANY team that plays the Cavs. The only team to beat them in the playoffs are the Golden State Warriors and 4/5 of their starters are All-Stars. To criticize the Raptors for not doing it is a bit silly, imo.
It's the Patrick Ewing vs Jordan effect. Or Dan Marino vs the Buffalo Bills. Not getting over the hump will be seen as a failure.
Kyle and Demar have not consistently been amazing in the playoffs. They got swept by the Wizards 3 years ago, they made it to the conference finals but they needed 7 to win the first two series while the Cavs got two sweeps. Winning 2 games at home that series was a consolation prize.
Now the Cavs were great. . . last year.
This Cavs team is Lebron and a bunch of guys. Jose Calderon is getting lots of minutes for this team. (he started for the Raps in 2006!!!)
A team that the Raptors handled very well in the regular season (Indiana) took the Cavs to 7 games. If they lose this series, it'll be a massive failure. I would trade Lowry and Serge if they lose, let the bench mob take if from here with Demar.
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Kyle and Demar have been fine in the playoffs if you actually look at their stats, save for Kyle literally being injured last year.
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Kyle and Demar have been fine in the playoffs if you actually look at their stats, save for Kyle literally being injured last year.
Not really.
https://raptorsrapture.com/2017/04/22/kyle-lowry-demar-derozan-have-playoff-curse/
The Raptors shot an awful combined 33.8% and couldn’t get much help from DeRozan or Lowry. Together Toronto’s backcourt combined for 21 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assists and 6 turnovers. In Lowry’s 10 attempts he made 4 baskets and DeRozan in 8 attempts made absolutely 0—the first time this has happened since 2015. This is unacceptable from the Raptors stars if they hope to advance to the next round.
In the regular-season Lowry and DeRozan are pictured as a serious threat in the east ready to overcome LeBron James and his Cleveland Cavaliers. In the post-season, it seems more like a duo trying to overcome their inconsistencies.
This season Lowry is shooting 46% from the field and a career-high 41% from the three. He still hasn’t been able to carry this into the post-season. Lowry is currently shooting 36% from the field and 25% from the three. He’s also a 42% career regular-season shooter, and with the post-season spotlight on him, Lowry’s numbers begin to diminish only shooting 38% in his career.
This year Demar adding a 3-point game has helped and Kyle is becoming more of a playmaker, leaving the penetration game to Delon Wright.
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And again, you're cherry picking the year that Kyle was playing injured.
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That article was written before the Cavs series last year.
Here's an article from 2016.
Through the first four games, Lowry is averaging just 15.5 points, 7.3 assists and 4.0 rebounds per game on 32.2 percent shooting from the field, 18.5 percent shooting from downtown and 70.4 percent shooting from the foul line.
DeRozan, meanwhile, has been even worse, putting up 13.3 points, 3.5 rebounds and 3.3 assists per game on putrid .296/.000/.733 shooting splits. He’s missed all eight of his three-point attempts in the series and has only gotten to the foul line 15 times in four games.
It’s only fair to wonder whether the Raptors’ backcourt can handle the pressure of the postseason, especially after Game 4 added them both to the kind of historic list you don’t want to be on:
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Chances for the Raptors moving on ?
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Chances for the Raptors moving on ?
Dunno, sports are unpredictable. The Cavs have the best player in the sport, but the supporting cast is wafer thin. If the Bench Mob can show up like they did in Game 6 against the Wizard, this series should be a breeze.
Lebron can get points whenever he wants. But does he have the stamina to get 4, 40 plus point games after being taken to the brink against a lesser team than the Raptors.
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Very informative ! It looks like I will miss games 1 & 2 but I still intend to watch.
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Very informative ! It looks like I will miss games 1 & 2 but I still intend to watch.
Wrong games to miss. Those are the home games.
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Wrong games to miss. Those are the home games.
Sigh. I am in a show tonight and have some other bullsh*t - I think a Burner meeting later this week.
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Jazz hands.
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Choke job! What an embarrassing display by Kyle and Demar. Kyle was just holding the ball down the stretch. Demar couldn't hit a shot and JV missed multiple lay ups, especially one that could have won the game.
The only thing I can see as optimistic is that the Cavs role players played out of their mind. But LeBron also wasn't dominating. So it's a push.
They lost the game, the Cavs didn't win.
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With home court gone, doesn't this mean the Raps are done ?
I missed the whole game as expected :(
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With home court gone, doesn't this mean the Raps are done ?
I missed the whole game as expected :(
It's not smart to make definitive conclusions on one game sample sizes. The Raptors choked this game away, meaning they should have won, meaning they could win. But win 4 of the next 6? Now they have to at least win one games in Ctown to advance, they weren't able to do that this season.
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I'm not too worried about this yet. The Raptors are clearly the better team. It took everything Cleveland had to win by 1 point in overtime, while the Raptors were playing sloppy basketball down the stretch. It's also unlikely Cleveland is going to have Korver, Smith and Thompson on fire every night. Those guys are the definition of inconsistent. OG and Siakam also did well to contain Lebron. He got a triple-double, but much lower stats than any of his games against the Pacers. Besides, the Raptors should be pretty used to losing game 1s by now. They've only ever won a game 1 once.
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1) The Raptors are clearly the better team.
2) the Raptors were playing sloppy basketball down the stretch.
Is this a basketball thing to be able to say such things ?
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**** happens where teams miss shots that they would normally make. The other aspects of their game last night were on point.
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Soooo.... they did not put the ball through the ring?
-k
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Soooo.... they did not put the ball through the ring?
Heh heh....
Okaaaay little lady. The big boys are talking about SPORTS here. It's too complicated for you, you see. Go fetch us some beers.
???
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Sooooo.... uh, this didn't go very well. :(
-k
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But at least the Toronto sports ecosystem hasn't been disrupted.
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Complete embarrassment.
Dwayne Casey may win Coach of the Year and also get fired.
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Dwayne Casey may win Coach of the Year and also get fired.
Sounds like me at work...
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Complete embarrassment.
Dwayne Casey may win Coach of the Year and also get fired.
Phase 1 is complete. He's coach of the year.
If he does part ways with the Raptors, it won't be because he's a poor coach, but the wrong fit for the team.
I find it strange that Derozan and Lowry both make it into the All-Star games, Derozan gets player of the week repeatedly, but then suddenly they can't grind it out in the playoffs. They can't take over a game. The dominant wins this season were thanks to the bench completely destroying others teams' benches. The concern with that is that they won't be that good against starters in the league, should they be moved up while Derozan and Lowry are moved out. The team is psychologically broken and perhaps a coaching change is the only thing that can shake that up. For that reason, as much as I'd like to see Nick Nurse become head coach, I don't think that's the right move for them either. I think the players have just stopped hearing them after years of them being too soft on them.
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And let's be honest....you bench Derozan and you play Bebe in the clutch against a team you're struggling against? That's some last ditch nonsense. They need a smarter coach rather than a coach who relies on gut feelings.
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I was at the bar tonight and the basketball game was on and the Golden State Warriors beat their opponent by over 40 points. This seems slightly ridiculous.
-k
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I was at the bar tonight and the basketball game was on and the Golden State Warriors beat their opponent by over 40 points. This seems slightly ridiculous.
-k
Oh it is. Considering the team they beat had the best record in the league during the regular season. They're not crap. Golden State is just that unstoppable when they're firing on all cylinders. Steph Curry's 3-ball is just bonkers when he's having a good night.
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After losing by 41 the other night, the Rockets win this time by 3 points. Crazy roller coaster.
-k
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So apparently there was a pretty wacky ending to game one of the finals...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BjfKCt3Hdd_/?taken-by=rayrod747
I've watched this 31 times already and it still makes me laugh.
-k
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You could argue, except for the Vincanity era, that the Raptors have never had a true top 5 talent on their roster. . . until now.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24128461/toronto-raptors-agree-deal-acquire-kawhi-leonard-trade-involves-demar-derozan
The San Antonio Spurs have agreed to trade Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green to the Toronto Raptors for DeMar DeRozan, Jakob Poeltl and a protected 2019 first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN.
Toronto's first-round pick to San Antonio is a protected 1-20 selection. After one year, it becomes two second-round picks.
Demar was a good soldier, but he largely disappeared in the playoffs. He couldn't get the team over the hump and he was locked up long-term.
Kawhi doesn't seem to want to stay beyond this year, but winning here may change his mind. If not, the Raptors will have to rebuild. With Lebron now in LA, I'd say they have an excellent shot at at being swept by Golden State in the Finals.
This will definitely be a more interesting year than if they trotted out the same roster.
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Kawhi Leonard... he can put the ball through the ring? I don't follow basketball much, but my diet of Toronto-based sports hype has led me to believe that DeMar DeRozan was a big deal. To now hear that Kawhi Leonard is actually way better is discombobulating.
-k
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Kawhi Leonard... he can put the ball through the ring? I don't follow basketball much, but my diet of Toronto-based sports hype has led me to believe that DeMar DeRozan was a big deal. To now hear that Kawhi Leonard is actually way better is discombobulating.
-k
Kawhi is a Top 5 NBA player, potentially a Top 3 NBA player. DeRozen is Top 15, Top 10 at best.
BUT, Kawhi doesn't want to play here, Demar did. BUT for four season in a row, DeRozen has largely shrunk in the playoffs. This past series against the Cavs was the most stark example of his inability to get it done in the post-season.
The Raps had to shake things up.
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Kawhi is a Top 5 NBA player, potentially a Top 3 NBA player. DeRozen is Top 15, Top 10 at best.
BUT, Kawhi doesn't want to play here, Demar did. BUT for four season in a row, DeRozen has largely shrunk in the playoffs. This past series against the Cavs was the most stark example of his inability to get it done in the post-season.
The Raps had to shake things up.
The past few years Canadian sports networks had sort of given me the impression that DeRozen is among the league's elite... now they're reacting like the Raptors ripped out an 8-track and put in a DVD player.
So if Kawhi decides he doesn't like playing in Toronto and moves along after this season, does that leave the Raptors in deep trouble? Do they have a way of replacing Leonard if he leaves? Do star players move around much in basketball?
-k
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The past few years Canadian sports networks had sort of given me the impression that DeRozen is among the league's elite... now they're reacting like the Raptors ripped out an 8-track and put in a DVD player.
So if Kawhi decides he doesn't like playing in Toronto and moves along after this season, does that leave the Raptors in deep trouble? Do they have a way of replacing Leonard if he leaves? Do star players move around much in basketball?
-k
Demar is good in the Regular season, but has consistently under-performed in the playoffs. At somepoint you have to see if you can win, or try something different.
I suspect Kawhi will leave after this season and try to play with Lebron in LA. If that happens the Raptors have just bought themselves a boat load of cap room, as they don't have Demar's contract either. Give it another year and Ibaka and Lowry's contracts come off the books.
Often rebuilds are hampered by albatross contracts. If the Raptors choose to rebuild, they'll still have plenty of young talent and a boat load of cap room to try and attract free agents.
But for the time being, they've vastly improved themselves for the 2018/19 season. I, myself, was getting tired of this core that teases you in the regular season, and then under-performs in the playoffs. If Kawhi is anything like he has been, this could be the best Raptors team ever, if only for just one year.
Would any Jays fan give back that season with David Price? Sports success if fleeting.
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A couple thoughts on this trade.
The talent that the Raptors picked up versus what they gave away is huge. Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green >> Demar Derozan and Jakob Poeltl. The Raptors picked up an MVP player and an NBA all-defensive player for Demar Derozan, who disappears during the playoffs and a bench centre who gets into foul trouble too easily.
Having said that, there's a couple caveats.
1) Kawhi is a huge question mark. We haven't seen him play ball in a year. Will he bounce back from the injury and be able to perform like he did in the past? Outside of the injury, will the circus around his "circle" that is managing his affairs continue to be a detriment to him and add to the Raptors' problems? Will Kawhi even play at his full potential or pull a VC on the Raptors? Will he play at all or just come back for a few games then claim he's injured? Will he even pass the physical to confirm the trade? There's just no way of knowing how this will play out with him.
2) Danny Green is a great acquisition, since he has the defensive capabilities some of the Raptors were sorely lacking, especially Derozan.
3) Even if this whole thing is a bust, Ujiri was stuck with large contracts with no foreseeable way to advance in the playoffs beyond where the Raptors have already been. Green and Leonard are up after this season, which frees roughly $30 million of cap space. This gives them the flexibility to sign bigger name free agents. However, they may have also created a problem with that by shipping off their single most dedicated star of all time. Players have been talking and crapping on Derozan's loyalty has left a sour taste in their mouths. Toronto already has a hard enough time attracting talent because we're in a different country. This has almost certainly made matters worse.
4) I don't buy into all this talk of the Raptors doing Derozan dirty. He's going to be under the tutelage of perhaps the greatest coach of all time at the Spurs. He's making millions of dollars to play ball. People are being overly dramatic about how bad this is for Derozan. In fact, I would argue that this is far better for him. Nick Nurse wasn't going to be a good coach for him. Derozan doesn't fit into Nurse's system. Pop will make Derozan an even better player than he is now. He may actually be the fortunate one in this situation.
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How are the Raptors doing?
Did they put the ball through the ring yet?
Is Kawhi Leonard everything people hoped for? Is there a chance he's going to stay with the Raptors after this season?
-k
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How are the Raptors doing?
Did they put the ball through the ring yet?
Is Kawhi Leonard everything people hoped for? Is there a chance he's going to stay with the Raptors after this season?
-k
All pretty good. The 'move' to get Leonard is looking smart - the Raptors lead the NBA and can beat pretty much any team. They have a problem with the Bucks, though, who are peaking this year. A trip to the final is not yet assured.
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I'm concerned this team isn't going to do a heck of a lot better than the past few seasons. Their shooting just isn't good enough, often enough.
I'll be happy to be proven wrong and Marc Gasol provides an element this team doesn't have. His Basketball IQ is so much better than JVs and he can shoot 3's better.
The slog of the NBA schedule is showing. Where they finish in the standings in the top 2 or 3 is irrelevant. As long as come April, they're healthy and jelling.
Linsanity is an interesting addition. With Freddy out for a few weeks, he'll be a most welcome addition.
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Is Lin any good ?
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Is Lin any good ?
He's a competent veteran. With the loss of the Delon Wright in the Gasol trade, a new PG is required. Now that Freddie is on the shelf for over a month, he'll be sorely needed just to absorb minutes.
If he's a difference maker in the playoffs, that's not a good thing. He just provides depth. But like with Kawasaki in the Jays run a few years back, his appeal goes beyond his performance on the field.
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The team hasn't had a full roster since October. Plauged by injuries this year. Yet still hanging onto second in the East. Tons of potential, but it'll have to come together in May.
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I read yesterday that Kawhi Leonard doesn't like Toronto cold, but he loves the Raptors and the fans, so maybe he will decide to stay on and help the Raptors put the ball through the ring.
-k
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Nobody knows what he will do. It would be nice if he stays, but I wouldn't bet my house on it. He didn't say specifically that he doesn't like the cold, just that he's never been anywhere that has snow. He grew up in San Diego and played ball for the San Antonio. He's just never had to wear a winter coat and boots before. He's also probably used to playing ball outside whenever he wants. You can't do that in Toronto obviously.
In any case, Mark Gasol, Jeremy Lin and Pascal Siakam are strong pieces for the Raptors' future in the league. The big issue I see going forward, however, is that they've bargained away their future by giving away their draft picks over the next 3 years or so. Masai and Bobby Webster must be working overtime to insure that Kawhi stays.
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In any case, Mark Gasol, Jeremy Lin and Pascal Siakam are strong pieces for the Raptors' future in the league. The big issue I see going forward, however, is that they've bargained away their future by giving away their draft picks over the next 3 years or so. Masai and Bobby Webster must be working overtime to insure that Kawhi stays.
If Kawhi bails, I'm pretty confident in predicting that Gasol and Lowry will be traded for picks and/or controllable assets. It'll be Siakam, Freddy and OG's team next season.
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What are your thoughts on OG this year? He hasn't been playing as well (despite the career high last game).
I know he has had personal issues with his father dying, which is unbelievably tough for such a young guy (he's only 21, I think). But I think the problem lies elsewhere.
Last season, Casey had OG playing at the 3, while Nurse has him playing most games at the 4. We have Danny Green starting at the 3, Norm who fits in that spot, and until the recent trades CJ was interchangeable with Norm as backup. OG was starting at 3 last year.
So about that career high the last game. He was playing most of the game at 3. He excels there. He's able to move off ball more and he can lock down just about anyone in the league who plays that position. The problem is we still have Powell and Green in those spots. I would like to see Nurse play OG at the 3 more, but then what do we do with Norm? Here's what I see as the lineups:
Starters
Lowry, Leonard, Green, Siakam, Ibaka
Bench
Lin, Van Vleet, Powell, Anunoby, Gasol
In my opinion Van Vleet, plays better off ball, so he should be a shooting guard most of the time. The trouble with that is his height makes him easily exploitable on the defensive end.
I'm not sure how to get Anunoby into that 3 spot. You can't bump Powell further down the roster. He's been on fire lately. And you can't move Powell to shooting guard because the team is spoiled for guards.
I think what might end up happening is that Powell (maybe a some other assets) will get traded while he's hot (read: valuable) for someone to cover the bench power forward position. OG then moves to the three for the bench and whomever they pick up takes up the four.
You know, it would be nice if Boucher could play the four but he's a center all day. He's not fast enough to cover the guys in the league who play the four.
So going forward, I think one of the Raptors' biggest issues is not using OG to his full potential and having a mismatch of players to their most effective positions. I'm confident that Gasol will eventually be the starter and Ibaka will be coming off the bench, but this still doesn't address the problem they have with OG being out of position and not having a proper spot for Norm in the rotation. Norm's place at the moment is hurting OG's game, but it's improving Norm's. It's a messy problem, I think.
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OG has good raw talent and has room to grow. But on this team he's lost. That last game again the Wizard, the Raps were short several players, so he could start and dominate.
I believe the starting 3 right now is Pascal with Kawhi at the 4. Danny is the SG. Nurse can fit players in beyond that as he sees fit. I think a rotation of 8 or 9 players going into the playoffs is all that we'll see.
The bigger question is Should Gasol start?
Ibaka plays much better at the 5 than the 4 assuming he's matched up against a comparable 5. Before JV got hurt, he'd get the starting nod. But Gasol is a few notches above JV. So I'm not sure how that'll be handled. It's a good problem to have though.
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Personally, I think Gasol should probably start, since he's a far better facilitator than Ibaka. Ibaka is also incredibly slow on the switches, suggesting a poor basketball IQ. Gasol seems to always be exactly where he needs to be. On the other hand, Ibaka appears to be a much better shot blocker and scorer. So it's tough. I think they'll probably do what they did with JV and start either Ibaka or Gasol depending on matchups.
And sorry, you're right. Green is the shooting guard and Kawhi is the SF. Siakam is the PF with Ibaka or Gasol at C. So Powell swaps out for Kawhi and OG fits into that space as well. They're playing OG at Siakam's position this year though and he can't seem to hang with other PFs as well as I he was hanging with the SFs last year and last game.
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Although not about the Raptors, this story of a 40 year old college student who still dreams of putting the ball through the ring is interesting.
https://longreads.com/2019/03/19/is-it-ever-too-late-to-pursue-a-dream/
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Although not about the Raptors, this story of a 40 year old college student who still dreams of putting the ball through the ring is interesting.
https://longreads.com/2019/03/19/is-it-ever-too-late-to-pursue-a-dream/
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Long article - is this just an April Fool's release that got out early ?
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The Raptors managed to put the ball through the ring today, and are now one win away from advancing to the second round!
The game was on at the bar this afternoon, and while I am no expert on the basketball, Mr Leonard certainly seemed to be having a good day.
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Mr. Leonard had a bad day the game before last. Turns out, playing professional-level basketball with the flu sets the difficulty level a lot higher.
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I believe Kawhi Leonard is one, if not the best, athletes to ever play in Toronto. It's a shame we may only see him for one season.
The series with Philly depends on how Siakam handled Jimmy Butler. They have the advantage with Ben Simmons and Joel Imbid IMHO.
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Kawhi is definitely the best Raptor of all time already. He was in the discussions for best player in the NBA a few years ago and that's with Lebron, Harden, Durant, Curry, etc. all being there.
He's also the only one showing up consistently in these playoffs.
Raptors bench is trash-tier at the moment though. Fred Van Vleet last night with zero points, zero assists and an plus minus of -18. Completely unacceptable. Serge leaving the lane open all night. Norm playing defence like it's a rec league. Just bad bad bad. You can't drop home games in the playoffs.
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Kawhi is definitely the best Raptor of all time already. He was in the discussions for best player in the NBA a few years ago and that's with Lebron, Harden, Durant, Curry, etc. all being there.
He's also the only one showing up consistently in these playoffs.
Raptors bench is trash-tier at the moment though. Fred Van Vleet last night with zero points, zero assists and an plus minus of -18. Completely unacceptable. Serge leaving the lane open all night. Norm playing defence like it's a rec league. Just bad bad bad. You can't drop home games in the playoffs.
Siakam is playing well too. Despite a pathetic offensive showing in Game 2, Danny Green had an open look to tie the game in the last 20 seconds. It was a bad shooting performance.
You have to hope that's the only game were they're that bereft of offence and that Jimmy Bulter isn't that good going forward.
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Butler is going to be good but the cold shooting will kill the Raps. The defence is on point though. Kept them under 100 both games. Game 3 tonight!
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Kawhi Leonard is one of the best athletes to ever play in Toronto. That show over Embiid with a minute left was ridiculous.
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Kawhi Leonard is one of the best athletes to ever play in Toronto.
In terms of stature within their sports, Roger Clemens might be the best comparison? Guys like John Tavares or Auston Matthews are great players, but not in the top handful of players in their league, nor was Mats Sundin.
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In terms of stature within their sports, Roger Clemens might be the best comparison? Guys like John Tavares or Auston Matthews are great players, but not in the top handful of players in their league, nor was Mats Sundin.
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Roger Clemens and Roberto Alomar are the only comparable players I can think of. As much as we wax poetic about previous Leafs, they rarely had the best players in the league.
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When I sat down at the bar, the Raptors were leading by 20 points. When my drink arrived, they were leading by 30. And when my food arrived, they were leading by 40.
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Raptors win on a last second shot 92-90. They advanced to the Conference Final, and will play Milwaukee.
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What an exciting finish! Kawhi got the ball in his hands with 4 seconds left and ran all the way to the opposite side of the court before launching the shot with less than a second to go. The buzzer-beater shot at first looked like it would bounce away from the net, but it bounced 3 or 4 times and went in. It was like a movie moment, as one of the Raptors players said after the game.
Now that they've advanced to the final four, they will try to put the ball through the ring against the Milwaukee Bucks, which I hear is no easy task.
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Watching Netflix... missed it :(
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Most exciting sports moment since Joe Carter's Home Run.
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Relive the magic moment!
https://streamable.com/m593a
They talk about Kawhi being a stoic guy who doesn't talk much or express his emotions, but look at his face at the end of this clip...
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Most exciting sports moment since Joe Carter's Home Run.
Bautista's bat-flip home run in 2015 tops it, IMHO. Very exciting, although the Raptors will have their work cut out for them against the Bucks.
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Bautista's bat-flip home run in 2015 tops it, IMHO. Very exciting, although the Raptors will have their work cut out for them against the Bucks.
Uhh no. That home run was a compelling moment but it was a walk-off. They still had to finish the game off.
This was a singular moment. And the comical nature of the shot only made it more compelling.
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I think there are many exciting sports moments within the last 25 years:
2019: San Jose sores 4 goals, and ultimately defeats the Golden Knights in OT game 7
2015: Baseball: Bautista walk off home run.
2008: Eli Manning shocks the Patroits, with a last second TD to win the Super Bowl against the undefeated Pats.
2010: Kane's OT goal in Game 6 vs the Flyers (Stanley cup winning goal)
2010: The Golden Goal! Sidney Crosby scores in OT to give Canada a Gold Medal.
2004: Martin Gelinas OT goal vs Vancouver wins the game 7, and Flames advance to Cup finals.
2004: Red Sox come back from a 3-0 series deficit to defeat the Yankees, and advance to the World Series for first time in nearly a century.
1999: Brett Hull scores in OT to lead the Dallas Stars over the Buffalo Sabres in the Stanley Cup
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The Bautista HR was not a Walk-Off. Remember the pitcher got all butthurt about the bat flip and there was almost a fight. They still had a few innings left to play.
A more exciting walk off for the Jays was the following year when they swept the Rangers on a crazy play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzD58UmFyeM
But the theatrics of the Kawai show was tough to beat.
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I'm not a big baseball fan, but that 2015 game was crazy. One of the most exciting games I have ever seen. The Raptors game was definitely up there too.
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Watched 3/4 of the game last night on and off. They led almost the whole way so I guess they won last night huh ? No need to check the score right ?
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Once again the Raptors have failed to put the ball through the net! This time they were completely blown out. I don't think they narrowed the Bucks' lead to less than 15 points during the time I was watching.
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Once again the Raptors have failed to put the ball through the net! This time they were completely blown out. I don't think they narrowed the Bucks' lead to less than 15 points during the time I was watching.
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Watched almost the whole game. Basketball sucks in the way that when you get behind it's really really boring...
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Raptors were up by 5 with less than two minutes to go. They blew it. Game is going to OT, which will be won by Milwaukee
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Raps take it...
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Raps take it...
In the words of Marv Albert : "YES!"
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Ok this guy Leonard carries the entire team. He is Moses. Lowry is crucia! as well. Norm Powell hello please stick around. Mr. Gasol pull your head out of your buttox you 2 Danny Green. Serge a little more muscle on the rebound. Drake sit down and shut up. The Bucks are a real 6 man threat. They are a tough team.
Go Raps. Leonard stays in to is my prediction if they get to the finals. Stick around klenny.
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Raptors were up by 5 with less than two minutes to go. They blew it. Game is going to OT, which will be won by Milwaukee
This post has aged poorly.
I'm not confident the Raptors can pull this series out but Sunday's win gave them a shot. Let's hope they can start to drain more shots.
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If these last few games have shown anything, it's that Milwaukee is the far better team...even if they somehow lose the series. It seems really unlikely after three games. Raptors only win so far was in OT2 @ home and was a struggle all the way. They didn't so much win as they did avoid losing.
Even if Kawhi leaves next season, he gave this team everything he had this season. The guy is an unbelievable baller. As much as I loved Derozan, there's a clear step up between him and Kawhi.
Regardless of what happens with Kawhi, the front office is going to have some decisions to make in the off season. The bench isn't ready for prime time and I don't think any amount of coaching is going to change this. Fred's been in the league long enough that he shouldn't be shrinking in the post season like he does. Ibaka is a great player, but seems to forget it all when it comes to tough teams. He needs to be more consistent.
Finally, Nick Nurse has shown a complete inability to adapt, which is insanely contradictory to the season they had. Their squad was plagued with injuries all year and required flexibility and adaptation. Nurse has shown an unwillingness to sit cold players in the playoffs. I get the value in showing confidence in your team and letting them play through the slumps, but if this team falls on cold, inconsistent performances, Nurse's unwillingness to adapt is going to be a hard question that he will have to answer for in the off season.
You've got to imagine just what this year would have been like without all of the tragedy that OG has had too. He and Siakam are the keys to this team's future and his absence is certainly being felt here in these playoffs. His defence is excellent and his playmaking ability off the ball spreads the floor, making it easier for other guys to get looks.
Tough to say what the front office is going to do, since the season isn't over yet, but I would expect some changes in the off season whether Kawhi stays or not.
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Tie game with 5:00 to go in the half. Can the Raptors pull out the impossible, and win in Milwaukee against the Bucks? Only time will tell...
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Tie game with 5:00 to go in the half. Can the Raptors pull out the impossible, and win in Milwaukee against the Bucks? Only time will tell...
I'm not staying up for this, so that might mean 'yes' as I always miss good games. Really it's 'no' though.
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5:00 left Raptors winning 89-85. Let's send some love for Toronto, so they can hopefully pull this off..
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RAPTORS WIN!!!!
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I can guarantee you a championship by not watching.
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I encourage you to not watch then.
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Raptors down 39-28 with 5:00 left in the half. They have comeback before. I have faith in them. I need everyone on the forum to send positive energy to the Raps. They can do this.
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Watched the first half... or at least up until now. Watching basketball with that kind of deficit is annoying. I'm out.
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Raptors down 39-28 with 5:00 left in the half. They have comeback before. I have faith in them. I need everyone on the forum to send positive energy to the Raps. They can do this.
I have followed your advice and sent the raps magical energy, which will probably have a difference in this game if my high school physics textbook was right.
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End of 3rd. Raptors on a 10-0 run to close the gap. 76-71 Bucks.
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HOLY ****!
Raptors are on FIRE!!!
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Tuned back in... looking good :D
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The Toronto Raptors are headed to the NBA Finals. They WIN!!!!
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Home court advantage also.
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Do the Raptors have much of a chance against Golden State?
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Do the Raptors have much of a chance against Golden State?
(https://i.imgur.com/FwejDy4.png)
https://fivethirtyeight.com/
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How the Raptors went on a 26-3 scoring run. (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-raptors-pulled-off-a-26-3-run-and-sealed-their-first-trip-to-the-finals/)
Charles Barkley says the Raptors will beat the Warriors, which is probably the kiss of death because Charles Barkley said that the Bucks were going to win the championship before the 3rd round.
I saw this post from a Bucks fan on Reddit:
Yesterday we saw the formula for stopping Giannis. All you need is one of the best perimeter defenses of all time, a former Defensive Player of the Year at center, a two time league leader in blocks at power forward, and another good defensive power forward to double and triple team him for 48 minutes. That way Giannis will be limited to only 22/13/5 for an entire series. So all you need is four all-time great defenders and Giannis is forced to average something around elite center averages.
Damn they really got us! I don't know why other teams didn't use their three former DPOY candidates to triple team Giannis. Look for other teams in the future to do that and totally stop the Greek Freak.
Is the Raptors defense really one of the best ever? He makes it sound like they're the new Pittsburgh Steelers "Steel Curtain".
Anyway, I don't know anything about basketball, but this has all been very exciting.
Video clip of Mr Leonard putting the ball through the ring very enthusiastically:
https://streamable.com/q3s7s
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Raptors beat the Warriors both times they played this year during regular season. That's a plus.
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Raptors beat the Warriors both times they played this year during regular season. That's a plus.
You are RIGHT ! I didn't remember that but...
https://heavy.com/sports/2019/05/raptors-warriors-nba-finals-regular-season-series-record/
a meeting on December 12 in Golden State and was an eye-opening win for the Raptors. Toronto left the Bay Area with a 113-93 victory and did so with Leonard sitting out while the Warriors had each member of their core other than Cousins.
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Is the Raptors defense really one of the best ever?
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Raptors defence is extremely good, but inconsistent. Yes. They have lapses in concentration though.
He's also salty as ****. Milwaukee's fans are awful. Gloating about your all-star center and implying that your team just got unlucky when you just lost 4 straight is a bad look.
Milwaukee had the best record in the NBA going into the playoffs. They only lost two games in a row a couple times during regular season and never dropped 3 in a row. This fan is pretending like Bucks weren't strong favourites in this series and that it was inevitable the Raptors would defeat them. Bucks blew them the **** out. The Bucks also had commanding leads in the games that they lost. (This is what I mean about the Raptors not looking good when they're not dialed in)
But yes, the Raptors defence, when they put the clamps on is damn good. And they need it too because their shooting is so god damned inconsistent that you have no idea which team is going to show up.
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Raptors beat the Warriors both times they played this year during regular season. That's a plus.
Here's the thing about the Warriors series. Most people are saying Raptors are going to get swept. Let's hope that they don't.
What's encouraging is that, yes, they beat them both games in the regular season (and without Kawhi), so we know they can win.
What's more encouraging is that the Raptors don't know what this team will look like next year. We don't know if Kawhi will re-sign, even if they do win the championship. The Raptors also have home court advantage. These are things that are going to be difficult if not impossible to re-create. I hope this gives the Raptors a do-or-die mentality because it's now or never. Golden State on the other hand has been here. This is old hat for them. They don't NEED this championships the way the Raptors, Toronto, and Canada need it. I hope that this passion accounts for something and gives them an intangible edge that they will certainly need against a team that is our contemporary dynasty.
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First off I commend Kimmy on actually understanding what Charles Barkley says. I have no idea what language he speaks.
I did not think the Raps would beat the Bucks given how many times they lost this year but they seem to h ave had some divine luck or assistance. They say Drake is a Satan worshipping illuminati member. Maybe he is behind it. Do you notice the Raps colours went from purpe to Satan red?
Is that a Raptor or really a Dragon, a sign for the Devil? Hmmmmmmmmmm?
Anyways I hope the Raps do it. If the Golden Guyz have all their guys back its gonna be tuff. One last thing, did you guys see when Leonard walked off the stage from the press conference after the game? He could barely walk he was so cramped and stiff. That guy has put everything into it.
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What worked against the Bucks will not work against the Warriors. They don't really factor a paint presence as a priority, especially if Boogie Cousins is out.
They have a backcourt that will shoot early in the clock. Tough to defend against that when they're hitting their shots. It'll be a track meet.
Good news is that Kevin Durant is still hurt and won't start the series. There's debate whether Kawhi or Durant are the best players in the league. In the November game between both teams, Durant was a singular force that kept Golden State in a game without Drayond Green or Steph Curry.
The game in Oracle was a shock because Kawhi was out due to the famous Load Management but the Raptors still managed to blow them out.
I really don't know what to expect this series, these teams are very different. But it should be very entertaining. If Kawhi wins this title, he'll but up with Joe Carter and Roberto Alomar in Toronto sports lore.
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He's also salty as ****. Milwaukee's fans are awful. Gloating about your all-star center and implying that your team just got unlucky when you just lost 4 straight is a bad look.
I don't think he was being salty. I think he was responding to the undeserved negativity around Gianni's series. He's saying, "look, an elite defensive team went all-out to shut Giannis down, and he still produced pretty good numbers. No other team in the league could have done that to him."
I read a lot of unfair slams about Gianni's (I won't even try spelling his last name from memory...) series against the Raptors. "He needs to learn to shoot free throws." "He needs to develop a jump shot." "He got exposed." Some people were even calling him "the Greek Fraud".
I think the more rational people were the ones pointing out that while the Raptors were focusing on Giannis, none of the other Bucks stepped up to take advantage of all the open space. Bledsoe and Middleton were huge disappointments, I gather. Somebody said "Giannis and 4 actual deer would have given the Raptors a better fight."
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In that regard, it wasn't really that they didn't step up. The Raptors rotations were tight. Their defense was stifling.
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Giannis wasn't nearly as good a distributor as Kawhi was.
You drive to the paint and four Raptors collapse on you, you should be able to find the open guy.
GS won't miss the shots that Kris Middleton and Eric Blesoe did. But the Raptors also won't need to have four guys clog up the paint against Golden State.
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A week out, it's still surreal that the Toronto Raptors are NBA Champions.
In following this team, the past few years, it seemed it would be good enough to lose in the Finals to a Golden State or lose in 6 to a Lebron-led Cavaliers team (what happened in 2016).
It never seemed realistically on the table that they'd win it all. Going into the finals, I pessimistically just hoped that they could keep Golden State honest and win 2 games.
Granted the injuries helped, but Golden State's first title was helped by injuries. And even without KD the Warriors were steamrolling their Western Conference opposition. The Rockets won titles in the mid 90's while Micheal Jordan was playing baseball. The history books don't usually mention the factors that led to the title, only that you won the title.
It really hit home watching the NBA Draft last night seeing rival teams like Boston, Philly and Brooklyn still trying to build teams in order to achieve what Toronto just achieved.
It's a great feeling. . . Even though I didn't do anything to achieve that goal. But moments like these are why people follow sports.
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Agree, Boges.
The same thing I have seen happen in other championships, in other sports, for other cities worked for us:
A confluence of events put our team in the right spot to make a play for it... and we WON :D :D :D
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Happy to BUMP
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The last Raptors game I saw was game 4 against Brooklyn. I was watching at a bar and the only drama was whether the Raptors could reach 150 points before my sangria ran dry. They just barely made it. I don't know a ton about basketball, but it seems to me like reaching 150 points is comparable to scoring 10 goals in hockey, a rare feat that's only accomplished during the most merciless beat-downs. It was glorious.
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The last Raptors game I saw was game 4 against Brooklyn. I was watching at a bar and the only drama was whether the Raptors could reach 150 points before my sangria ran dry. They just barely made it. I don't know a ton about basketball, but it seems to me like reaching 150 points is comparable to scoring 10 goals in hockey, a rare feat that's only accomplished during the most merciless beat-downs. It was glorious.
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Glad to oblige :D
I would love to see these guys go to the next round, as they have zero respect out there... None of the pundits predicted them making the playoffs...
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suitNtie O'Tool - kickin' back watching the game! Apparently Scheer took the big screen when he moved out ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/gKony7n.png)
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When I sat down at the bar last night the Raptors were trailing by 4. Then Fred Van Vleet went into turbo mode and scored 9 straight points. I had to leave just when they were going into overtime, so I don't know what happened, but they're going to game 7 so I guess it must have turned out okay.
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