Canadian Politics Today

Federal Politics => Canadian Politics => Topic started by: kimmy on August 18, 2017, 01:31:12 am


Title: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: kimmy on August 18, 2017, 01:31:12 am
Grab some popcorn and check out the fun at Rebel Media.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/politicians-contributors-distance-themselves-as-rebel-medias-meltdown-continues/wcm/23597cc0-4c97-4e64-bea4-999bd870f1f1

Rebel contributor Faith Goldy was at the "Unite The Right" rally in Charlottesville, and was in fact just a few feet away when that bozo plowed his car into the protestors.  She had been, at the time, talking about what terrible and intolerant people the "anti-fascists" are.

Rebel Commander Ezra Levant says that he had requested that Goldy not attend the rally either as a Rebel Media reporter or as a private individual. But she did, and some of her co-workers were concerned that her coverage came across as sympathetic to the white nationalists.  Brian Lilley quit, citing concern over the editorial direction of Rebel Media. Barbara Kay and John Robson followed, expressing similar concerns.

Conservative leader Andrew Scheer has announced he will no longer do interviews with Rebel Media, as have Jason Kenney and Brian Jean (the two leaders of Alberta's "Unite The Right" movement, which aims to unite the Progressive Conservatives with the Wild Rose Party, as opposed to uniting White Nationalists with Neo Nazis.)  Canadian Conservatives clearly don't wish to be associated with a website that until this week has been breathlessly hyping alt-right ideas and personalities.

Then things got worse for our Rebel Commander, as it turns out that Faith Goldy also did a podcast with The Daily Stormer (a white supremacist website) while she was in Virginia.  At this point Ezra had no choice but to fire Faith, and he did exactly that today. Also today, contributor Gavin MacInnes cut ties with The Rebel as well.


As well, Norwegian Cruise Lines cancelled The Rebel's "Rebel Cruise", not wanting to be associated with these jerks either. https://www.therebelcruise.ca/    (Of the 4 people in that promo picture, 2 of them left the company today.   Who'd want to be stuck on a cruise ship with these jerks anyway?  Just imagining Ezra Levant in his swimsuit and Hawaiian shirt is traumatizing... who'd want to experience it in real life?  Levant no doubt wears socks with his sandals.   I am confident that people who spent money on this incredibly bad idea will receive refunds and have an opportunity to do something better with their money.)

Also, the advertiser boycott of The Rebel is up to 237 companies.

As if all that wasn't enough, Ezra faces more trouble on a different front, as former Rebel contributor Caolan Robertson released a video alleging that Ezra has been scamming donors and killed a story about the UK Independence Party committing electoral fraud because he was trying to recruit Nigel Farage as a contributor. (then Robertson asked viewers for donations so that he could start his own alt-right media company...)

So, fun times for Ezra Levant this week.  Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

 -k
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 18, 2017, 06:44:43 am
I like our Conservatives when they act Canadian.

This copying of the divisive tactics from down south has to stop.  Let's hope a new site replaces The Rebel soon.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Peter F on August 18, 2017, 06:36:58 pm
Gave him lots of rope and he hung himself. For the third time.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 18, 2017, 09:55:36 pm
Ezra is a bit of a douche, sometimes a massive douche, though he's Jewish so extremely unlikely he'd be supporting any Neo-Nazis any time soon.  Gavin McInnis i saw completely disavowed himself from the event prior to it happening & was adamant that his "proud boys" not attend.

Conservatives seem a more complex bunch with more subgroups than on the left.  Nazis, fiscal conservatives, social conservatives, neoconservatives, libertarians, white nationalists etc.

Will be interesting to see where Ezra lands after this.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 18, 2017, 10:01:05 pm
I found it odd how much fundraising & activism was on The Rebel site.  I guess now I know why.

Quote
In an explosive video posted to YouTube on Thursday, featuring secretly recorded audio of Levant, Robertson claimed The Rebel has dishonestly solicited donations in excess of the costs of creating its content, concealed its use of the money, and oriented its news agenda around stories that can be turned into activist campaigns, generating a vast database of email addresses of sympathetic viewers and readers who can be mobilized for fundraising.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: kimmy on August 19, 2017, 12:31:47 pm
Well of course, they're always asking viewers to send them money for some cause or another.  "Support our coverage of this important issue!" etc.  I mean, they're not claiming to be a regulated charity and they're not suggesting your "donation" is tax deductible, so it really doesn't matter what they do with the money, does it?  I mean, if you decide to send "donations" to a private business, why would you feel scammed if they accept your money?

 -k
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: kimmy on August 19, 2017, 12:43:57 pm
This excerpt from Ezra's statement highlights the cowardice of his position:

Quote
When I first heard of the alt-right a year ago, I thought it simply meant the insurgent right, the politically incorrect right, the grassroots right, the nationalistic right, the right that was a counterweight to the establishment of the GOP, the right that backed Trump and his "Make America Great Again" style over Jeb Bush and the swamp. It was unashamed right-wingedness, with a sense of humour.

Prominent alt-right personalities back then included the outrageous but loveable Milo Yiannopoulos, who just happened to be a half-Jewish gay man who preferred black men. I remember when Hillary Clinton made her bizarre campaign speech attacking the alt-right, and it sounded no different than any of her other “deplorables” insults, so that made me even more interested.

But the alt-right has changed into something new, especially since Trump’s election. Now the leading figure — at least in terms of media attention — is Richard Spencer, and other white nationalists. By that, I mean people whose central organizing political principle is race.

He says that Hilary's speech was "bizarre", then claims that the alt-right has changed. It was just zany irreverent fun and wacky Pepe The Frog memes and stuff, but then it changed.

It didn't change. This element was always there. Hilary was right all along. It didn't change. Everybody told you it was there, and you ignored it because you didn't want to see it. Ezra and his ilk played along and turned a blind eye to "the deplorables" because it was convenient for them, and they're only disavowing it now because it's no longer convenient.

You're a gutless puke, Ezra Levant.

 -k
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 20, 2017, 07:02:41 am
I'd like to think that this is part of the regrouping that is to be expected with the rise of social media.  The emergence of fringe voices, previously silenced by MSM, is/was shocking and needed to be processed, and new 'publics' had to emerge from that.  It seems that the Canadian conservatives are finding themselves again.

Canadaland is a great podcast that represents a 'centre' of sorts, but not one beholden to the Liberals by any means.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: segnosaur on August 21, 2017, 12:24:30 pm
I say this as someone who regularly votes conservative...I have absolutely no sympathy for The Rebel, or any of their past or presnt contributors (such as Brian Lilley.)

I was never a subscriber to the Rebel, but I did occasionally come across their site when doing news searches. I also heard Bryan Lilley on the radio quite frequently. During the election, the Rebel seemed to be solidly pro-Trump. (Maybe I missed any pro-clinton articles they ran...) Yet Trump's racists leanings were well known, even before the recent troubles with the white supremacists.

So NOW all these Rebel contributors find fault in the direction of the Rebel's content? Where were they last year when Trump was talking about mexican rapists? Why weren't they complaining about the Rebel supporting a guy who considered blacks as "lazy"?


Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: guest4 on August 23, 2017, 09:17:11 pm
I'd like to think that this is part of the regrouping that is to be expected with the rise of social media.  The emergence of fringe voices, previously silenced by MSM, is/was shocking and needed to be processed, and new 'publics' had to emerge from that.  It seems that the Canadian conservatives are finding themselves again.

Canadaland is a great podcast that represents a 'centre' of sorts, but not one beholden to the Liberals by any means.

I found Canadaland on Spotify last week, and it is good. 
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Gorgeous Graham on August 23, 2017, 10:18:52 pm
I didn't agree with a ton of their opinions/content, but I liked going to Rebel Media to check out the rightwing spin on the news, as opposed to the leftwing spin we get mostly everywhere else.  It had stories that most other outlets wouldn't dare report.  I find the same with National Post, though not as extreme.  It's so interesting to me how left & rightwing news outlets will spin the same story so differently too.

I guess I'll have to start checking out the Toronto Sun or Ottawa Sun rags... BLECH.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: kimmy on August 24, 2017, 03:50:19 am
I didn't agree with a ton of their opinions/content, but I liked going to Rebel Media to check out the rightwing spin on the news, as opposed to the leftwing spin we get mostly everywhere else.  It had stories that most other outlets wouldn't dare report.  I find the same with National Post, though not as extreme.  It's so interesting to me how left & rightwing news outlets will spin the same story so differently too.

Yes, I sometimes check out sites like the Rebel and Breitbart for the same reason. I used to visit Breitbart regularly to find out what talking points the Obama haters at MLW would be parroting that week. When Trump became president, it was interesting to see how they'd spin his blunders or how they were trying to reconcile Planet Trump with Planet Earth.  Now that Steve Bannon is no longer in the Trump administration, do I have to stop calling it Breitpravda?  Anyway.  I agree, having a variety of viewpoints is a good thing. My complaint with Rebel and Breitbart is that they too often cross the line into being full-on propaganda.


I guess I'll have to start checking out the Toronto Sun or Ottawa Sun rags... BLECH.

Well, Ezra's not done yet.  I imagine the past week's events won't actually change much with his loyal fanbase. He got rid of Faith Goldy, did his damage control, and this will probably blow over. He'll find new blowhards to provide content.  I doubt that many Rebel regulars actually mind too much that Faith Goldy was sympathetic to the white nationalists or appeared on a Daily Stormer podcast. 

 -k
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: cybercoma on August 24, 2017, 07:58:33 am
Now that Breitbart is criticizing Trump for not pulling out of Aghanistan, I wonder if his supporters will stick with him or continue to parrot Breitbart's criticisms.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 24, 2017, 08:39:04 am
not only not pulling out, but now adding 4000 extra troops.
Is this a FLIP or a FLOP?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 24, 2017, 09:30:09 am
I found Canadaland on Spotify last week, and it is good.

Monday's episode chronicles the Rebel implosion in detail.  I'm part way through it.

Why can't conservatives get together and just brand themselves as the caring pragmatists that they are at heart ?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: kimmy on August 24, 2017, 10:25:19 am
not only not pulling out, but now adding 4000 extra troops.
Is this a FLIP or a FLOP?

You know who should have pulled out?  Fred Trump.  http://www.hiyoooo.com/

 -k
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: segnosaur on August 24, 2017, 12:04:29 pm
Why can't conservatives get together and just brand themselves as the caring pragmatists that they are at heart ?
Because "conservatives" is a broad description that can include a wide variety of economic and social values/opinions.

I vote conservative, but I'm also an atheist; I would switch my vote the instant that the party was hijacked by religious social-conservatives and tried to re-implement bans on gay marriage and abortion.

Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 24, 2017, 12:14:30 pm
That's the thing: the wacko conservatives must be a minority of the broader team right ? 
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 24, 2017, 04:04:14 pm
That's the thing: the wacko conservatives must be a minority of the broader team right ?

What about the wacko liberals and NDP? There's a socialist caucus in the NDP that wants to nationalize industries and give the 'workers' the levers of power over business. There's no nazi or fascist caucus in the Conservative party.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 24, 2017, 04:32:22 pm
1. What about the wacko liberals and NDP? There's a socialist caucus in the NDP that wants to nationalize industries and give the 'workers' the levers of power over business.
2. There's no nazi or fascist caucus in the Conservative party.
1. Yes, you taught me that one and I wore egg for it.  Thanks for reminding me. 
2. The Liberals have the NDP though.  The Conservatives don't have an NDP.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 24, 2017, 06:08:44 pm
1. Yes, you taught me that one and I wore egg for it.  Thanks for reminding me. 
2. The Liberals have the NDP though.  The Conservatives don't have an NDP.

Granted. But the NDP is not exactly a pariah party. They almost won the last election and are treated with respect by all major media. No one ever questions the radicals within their party, never mind their caucus. But let one wingnut working as a volunteer clerk in a Tory riding in buttfuck Saskatchewan say something about squaws and the national news is all over it and challenging everyone in the party as to whether they agree with them.

I think Cyber said something about how, well, the Nazis are worse because they're evil. I get that. The Nazis want to deliberately kill people because of who those people are. The Communists and Marxists just kill people incidentally, in large numbers, because they get in the way of their objectives. There might not be any targeted racial or ethnic hate behind it. But the people are still dead.

Still, the Nazis are more evil. But there's hardly any of them. Certainly no one who supports fascist/nazi beliefs has been elected to office lately, let alone is running for the leadership of a major political party which almost won power a year ago.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: cybercoma on August 24, 2017, 07:57:10 pm
What about the wacko liberals and NDP? There's a socialist caucus in the NDP that wants to nationalize industries and give the 'workers' the levers of power over business. There's no nazi or fascist caucus in the Conservative party.
Oh yes. Nationalizing industries is just like setting up concentration camps and butchering millions of innocent people.  ::)
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 25, 2017, 06:04:22 am
Granted. But the NDP is not exactly a pariah party. They almost won the last election and are treated with respect by all major media.

But they have never held power.  How the media treats them is what it is.

Quote
No one ever questions the radicals within their party, never mind their caucus. But let one wingnut working as a volunteer clerk in a Tory riding in buttfuck Saskatchewan say something about squaws and the national news is all over it and challenging everyone in the party as to whether they agree with them.

Even Reform had to castigate people who said something like that, as I remember anyway.  The NDP has plenty of internal battles about how far to the right they may drift, but it's not so public.

Quote
I think Cyber said something about how, well, the Nazis are worse because they're evil. I get that. The Nazis want to deliberately kill people because of who those people are. The Communists and Marxists just kill people incidentally, in large numbers, because they get in the way of their objectives. There might not be any targeted racial or ethnic hate behind it. But the people are still dead.

There's no point in equating rightward Canadian Conservatives with Nazis, or leftward NDPers as Communists.  Those were totalitarian governments, remember.

Quote
Still, the Nazis are more evil. But there's hardly any of them. Certainly no one who supports fascist/nazi beliefs has been elected to office lately, let alone is running for the leadership of a major political party which almost won power a year ago.

It's politics, so you won't have a Nazi elected anytime soon.  You seem to think that's not fair ?  Not sure what the point is.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 25, 2017, 11:39:55 am
Oh yes. Nationalizing industries is just like setting up concentration camps and butchering millions of innocent people.  ::)

No, it's not, but it's an indication of the Communistic sentiments there, and we know those never lead to free and democratic societies. But if you show me the group of avowed fascists in the Tory party I'll agree that's more dangerous. That presumes, of course, that your definition of fascist doesn't include things like those opposed to using gender neutral nouns.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 25, 2017, 11:44:50 am
But they have never held power.  How the media treats them is what it is.

How the media treat them and how the Left treats them is hypocritical.

Quote
There's no point in equating rightward Canadian Conservatives with Nazis, or leftward NDPers as Communists.

But the rightward Conservatives AREN'T Nazis while some of the leftward NDPers ARE.

Quote
It's politics, so you won't have a Nazi elected anytime soon.  You seem to think that's not fair ?  Not sure what the point is.

I think you know my point. The attempt to smear conservatives (and Conservatives) with the extremist label and impute a relationship with the extremist right is preposterously hypocritical given you and the Left shows zero concern with bringing the extreme Left into your own political parties.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 25, 2017, 02:05:43 pm
How the media treat them and how the Left treats them is hypocritical.

Two sets of hypocrisy you mean ?

Quote
But the rightward Conservatives AREN'T Nazis while some of the leftward NDPers ARE.

No they're not Nazis.  I get off this train at the last stop before demagoguery.

Quote
I think you know my point. The attempt to smear conservatives (and Conservatives) with the extremist label and impute a relationship with the extremist right is preposterously hypocritical given you and the Left shows zero concern with bringing the extreme Left into your own political parties.

I would say that Conservatives have spoken with regards to the alt-right.  Your argument is mostly with them, I think.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: msj on August 25, 2017, 02:51:06 pm
But let one wingnut working as a volunteer clerk in a Tory riding in buttfuck Saskatchewan say something about squaws and the national news is all over it and challenging everyone in the party as to whether they agree with them.

I suppose you may have inadvertently forgotten the quote marks around the word "squaw."

But given that you did use the term and given that you are a known conservative and given that it is a racist term, well, if it walks like a racist and talks like a racist then people are just going to assume that it is a racist.

And, by implications, those who associate with the racists. 

So really a guilt by association kind of thing.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2017, 03:14:32 pm
I suppose you may have inadvertently forgotten the quote marks around the word "squaw."


You should have put quote marks around "inadvertently", because I think we can conclude it was anything but.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 25, 2017, 03:47:54 pm
I suppose you may have inadvertently forgotten the quote marks around the word "squaw."

No, I left it there in hopes of triggering some hyper-sensitive progressive moron. I hope you didn't cry too much.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2017, 04:05:37 pm
No, I left it there in hopes of triggering some hyper-sensitive progressive moron. I hope you didn't cry too much.

I think we all know you didn't "forget" the quote marks. I suspect the word is a regular part of your vocabulary.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 25, 2017, 04:17:06 pm
I think we all know you didn't "forget" the quote marks. I suspect the word is a regular part of your vocabulary.

I think we all know you're just desperate for my attention since I've ignored you on the other site and there's no such function here. Keep jumping up and down with your pathetic one line insult posts. It makes you seem so very mature.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: msj on August 25, 2017, 04:38:30 pm
So there is no smearing going on here.

A racist is behaving like a racist (which is fine, this is a discussion forum so no harm going on within here).

But don't get all upset when you and your ilk are called out for being racists. 

Just calling a spade a spade as they say.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2017, 04:45:00 pm
I think we all know you're just desperate for my attention since I've ignored you on the other site and there's no such function here. Keep jumping up and down with your pathetic one line insult posts. It makes you seem so very mature.

I guess you thought changing your avatar would disguise you somehow? Guess what,...didn't work. Here one obvious hint..."squaw"
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 25, 2017, 05:49:59 pm
So there is no smearing going on here.

A racist is behaving like a racist (which is fine, this is a discussion forum so no harm going on within here).

From my perspective, a moron is behaving like a moron. I usually don't engage with such people, since they have nothing intelligent to say or contribute. Unfortunately, there's no ignore function here, so I let myself respond to one. I won't again. Spout away, snowflake. Cry cry to your heart's content.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: cybercoma on August 25, 2017, 06:19:48 pm
Same old song and dance:

Say something racist.
Get called out for racism.
Throw a tantrum and call people morons because they call you out on your bullshit.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: msj on August 25, 2017, 06:24:12 pm
Yep, I'm the "moron" for calling a spade a spade.

But at least I'm not crying (little child's voice): oh, he called me out for being a racist so he is a snowflake moron....   ;D

Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JMT on August 25, 2017, 07:15:10 pm
Buttfuck is a beautiful place to visit.

Keep it civil.  The only moron here is me.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 25, 2017, 07:31:50 pm
Same old song and dance:

Say something racist.
Get called out for racism.
Throw a tantrum and call people morons because they call you out on your bullshit.

I didn't have a tantrum and I didn't say anything racist. I was pointing out the hypocrisy and stupidity of sophomoric morons who aren't capable discussing issues like adults. That's fine. I don't interact with people like him. That's why I had an ignore list on the other site. Because there was no possibility of actual discussion with certain people beyond the unsatisfying exchange of insults and contempt. I know some people thrive on that. Omni spends all his time in a tight, mutual masturbatory embrace with the likes of Taxme and Bush-Cheney there - birds of a feather with a similar intellect I guess. But I have higher standards.

If you want to discuss different opinions in an adult fashion without insults I'm okay with that. If not, you can engage with people who agree with you. I'm sure you'll find that a reassuring and unchallenging experience.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2017, 10:09:58 pm
I didn't have a tantrum and I didn't say anything racist. I was pointing out the hypocrisy and stupidity of sophomoric morons who aren't capable discussing issues like adults. That's fine. I don't interact with people like him. That's why I had an ignore list on the other site. Because there was no possibility of actual discussion with certain people beyond the unsatisfying exchange of insults and contempt. I know some people thrive on that. Omni spends all his time in a tight, mutual masturbatory embrace with the likes of Taxme and Bush-Cheney there - birds of a feather with a similar intellect I guess. But I have higher standards.

If you want to discuss different opinions in an adult fashion without insults I'm okay with that. If not, you can engage with people who agree with you. I'm sure you'll find that a reassuring and unchallenging experience.

I suspect that that kind of retort is why sensible, non racist, non xenophobic posters tend to ignore you here, just as they do on the "other site.  You sir are much closer in line taxme and B_C than most others. Red necked birds of a feather.....
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JMT on August 25, 2017, 11:03:01 pm
I don't think comparing SirJohn to Bush_Cheney is at all fair.  He's certainly not a troll (I can say that now, and no one can suspend me).  He does have views that I don't agree with, and he doesn't trust the 'other' as he makes very clear from his posts.  I don't think he's a nazi though.

I think we need to bring the level of discourse in this thread back to sanity.  I would appreciate that very much, and would hate to have to take any action beyond that.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2017, 11:14:42 pm
I don't think comparing SirJohn to Bush_Cheney is at all fair.  He's certainly not a troll (I can say that now, and no one can suspend me).  He does have views that I don't agree with, and he doesn't trust the 'other' as he makes very clear from his posts.  I don't think he's a nazi though.

I think we need to bring the level of discourse in this thread back to sanity.  I would appreciate that very much, and would hate to have to take any action beyond that.
I agree totally with your idea. I came over here because it seemed like there was more intelligent conversations. And lets leave the insults back on MLW.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: msj on August 25, 2017, 11:20:21 pm
I think the comparison to BC2004 is fair and apt.

BC likes to bait Canadians in his usual way that we all know and love (kidding, kidding).

Sir John here baits by knowingly using racist terminology in a thread that involves racism so he can attempt to play martyr while calling the spade caller a moron for good measure.

Then he gets to play martyr again by claiming everyone else is a snowflake who is not worth discussing things with because they can't discuss things with someone who disagrees with them.

Now, maybe you think he is serious and has a straight face, but I don't think so.

Sure, maybe it is pure cognitive dissonance but it's his MO wherever and whenever he posts. 

I think the consistency he shows is closer to trolliness than cognitive dissonance but who knows? Maybe I'm being too generous?

Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: kimmy on August 25, 2017, 11:27:36 pm
This kind of dog-**** is why I got tired of the other place.

SirJohn's point was obvious.  Having a temper-tantrum over the language he used in making it is juvenile.

 -k
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: msj on August 25, 2017, 11:33:39 pm
Yes, lets get back to his point he raised with the "sqaw" shall we?

Go ahead and explain it again for us?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2017, 11:38:06 pm
I think the comparison to BC2004 is fair and apt.

BC likes to bait Canadians in his usual way that we all know and love (kidding, kidding).

Sir John here baits by knowingly using racist terminology in a thread that involves racism so he can attempt to play martyr while calling the spade caller a moron for good measure.

Then he gets to play martyr again by claiming everyone else is a snowflake who is not worth discussing things with because they can't discuss things with someone who disagrees with them.

Argus and B_C shoot barbs at each other from time to time, but actually, if you assess their posts you'll find out "tarred with the same brush"applies.
Now, maybe you think he is serious and has a straight face, but I don't think so.

Sure, maybe it is pure cognitive dissonance but it's his MO wherever and whenever he posts. 

I think the consistency he shows is closer to trolliness than cognitive dissonance but who knows? Maybe I'm being too generous?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: kimmy on August 25, 2017, 11:40:31 pm
Yes, lets get back to his point he raised with the "sqaw" shall we?

Go ahead and explain it again for us?

His point is that if some redneck Conservative MP used racist or homophobic language, the national media would be badgering any and every Conservative MP to either endorse or disavow the comment.  Yet we never hear the national media badgering NDP MPs for a reaction when one of their colleagues says something outlandish.

Is that really so complicated?

 -k
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 25, 2017, 11:49:44 pm
His point is that if some redneck Conservative MP used racist or homophobic language, the national media would be badgering any and every Conservative MP to either endorse or disavow the comment.  Yet we never hear the national media badgering NDP MPs for a reaction when one of their colleagues says something outlandish.

Is that really so complicated?

 -k
So tell us what is more "outlandish" than the term "squaw" Squaw goes beyond outlandish, all the way to racist. But argus has demonstrated such.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: guest4 on August 26, 2017, 12:29:18 am
His point is that if some redneck Conservative MP used racist or homophobic language, the national media would be badgering any and every Conservative MP to either endorse or disavow the comment.  Yet we never hear the national media badgering NDP MPs for a reaction when one of their colleagues says something outlandish.

Is that really so complicated?

 -k

Might not be complicated, but I don't think it's even true.  Of course, a person notices when one of their own is getting their feet held to the fire, but are less likely to notice when one of the "enemy" is experiencing the same thing; even if they do, they are likely to believe it's deserved, while excusing their own.  I think this is called 'confirmation bias'.   

If I recall, in another thread you felt that language reflected a person's culture, what they find normal, what they believe.  If someone uses an inappropriate word outside their usual circle, doesn't that suggest that for them, that word is familiar and normal?   Then one must ask, why would a word like 'squaw' be familiar or normal to anyone?   Why would someone defend it's use, even in buttfuck nowhere and even if the user is merely a volunteer clerk?   Is casual and unthinking racism acceptable to Conservatives, and so they resent media noticing and people objecting?   If this racism is acceptable to mainstream/moderate Conservatives, then maybe the alt-right and White Supremacists aren't really so much a fringe as we think?

Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: cybercoma on August 26, 2017, 07:00:12 am
His point is that if some redneck Conservative MP used racist or homophobic language, the national media would be badgering any and every Conservative MP to either endorse or disavow the comment.  Yet we never hear the national media badgering NDP MPs for a reaction when one of their colleagues says something outlandish.

Is that really so complicated?

 -k
Ask Charlie Angus, Libby Davies, or especially Pat Martin about the media and putting their feet in their mouths then get back to me. There's many other examples too; Argus is just plain wrong.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 26, 2017, 10:44:40 am
Might not be complicated, but I don't think it's even true.  Of course, a person notices when one of their own is getting their feet held to the fire, but are less likely to notice when one of the "enemy" is experiencing the same thing;

I would notice, and I have NOT noticed. Look, what we have here is some Nazis involved in street fights in the US, the outrage of which has transferred itself to rebel for not being very critical of them and then onto conservatives in general. So conservatives get tarred because of what some yankee fuckups do. When does this EVER happen to the NDP or Liberals?

Quote
If I recall, in another thread you felt that language reflected a person's culture, what they find normal, what they believe.  If someone uses an inappropriate word outside their usual circle, doesn't that suggest that for them, that word is familiar and normal?   Then one must ask, why would a word like 'squaw' be familiar or normal to anyone?

Are you really this dense? In the first place, I live in Ottawa. There aren't many natives here, so why would I even have cause to use it routinely? Second, I was very clearly using it and example OF an inappropriate word, and how some nobody using an inappropriate word then winds up being used to smear all conservatives.

Quote
Why would someone defend it's use, even in buttfuck nowhere and even if the user is merely a volunteer clerk?   Is casual and unthinking racism acceptable to Conservatives, and so they resent media noticing and people objecting?   If this racism is acceptable to mainstream/moderate Conservatives, then maybe the alt-right and White Supremacists aren't really so much a fringe as we think?

No one was defending it. But thanks for demonstrating so clearly how easily you hairtrigger progressives jump on the 'racist' tag. I sometimes think the only sexual satisfaction lefties get is when they can call people racists or islamophobes. I mean, they sure do like doing it a lot!

So because I forgot to put brackets around the word I'm a racist and by extension all Conservatives are. Now that's truly the kind of genius that let's you be a progressive who is also a fanatical supporter of extreme Islam and desperate to bring as many far, far far right Muslim religious conservatives to Canada as possible. You should get some kind of award for the bizarro world self-justifications you use for your views.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 26, 2017, 10:46:43 am
Ask Charlie Angus, Libby Davies, or especially Pat Martin about the media and putting their feet in their mouths then get back to me. There's many other examples too; Argus is just plain wrong.

Yeah the heat got so ferocious they all had to resign!

Oh... wait...

Has the media even commented on one of the leadership candidates for the NDP being a member of a group which wants to nationalize the banks, insurance companies and auto industries?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 26, 2017, 10:48:41 am
I agree totally with your idea. I came over here because it seemed like there was more intelligent conversations. And lets leave the insults back on MLW.

That's funny given I put you on my ignore list because you were incapable of holding a discussion with someone who disagrees with you without hurling sophomoric insults.

Rather like Donald Trump, come to think of it.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: guest4 on August 26, 2017, 11:02:19 am
I would notice, and I have NOT noticed. Look, what we have here is some Nazis involved in street fights in the US, the outrage of which has transferred itself to rebel for not being very critical of them and then onto conservatives in general. So conservatives get tarred because of what some yankee fuckups do. When does this EVER happen to the NDP or Liberals?

Was not the post I responded to talking about lowly person in Canada using the word "Squaw"?   Nothing to do with Nazis, etc. 

But to answer your question:  Antifa.  The left is blamed for those fuckups, just as much as the right is blamed for the nazi/WS fuckups.

Quote
Are you really this dense? In the first place, I live in Ottawa. There aren't many natives here, so why would I even have cause to use it routinely? Second, I was very clearly using it and example OF an inappropriate word, and how some nobody using an inappropriate word then winds up being used to smear all conservatives.

Again, I was responding to a post which spoke of some clerk in buttfuck nowhere using the word "Squaw", nothing to do with you, other then ....

Quote
No one was defending it. But thanks for demonstrating so clearly how easily you hairtrigger progressives jump on the 'racist' tag. I sometimes think the only sexual satisfaction lefties get is when they can call people racists or islamophobes. I mean, they sure do like doing it a lot!

Yeah, you were defending it - complaining that it got too much media attention, and that kind of thing should be ignored.

Quote
So because I forgot to put brackets around the word I'm a racist and by extension all Conservatives are.


Again, I wasn't talking specifically about you - but about the person mentioned in the post I was responding to.



In any case, I have always believed that most Canadians, including conservatives, are as opposed to racism/sexism as I am, but given the posts I've seen by conservatives over at MLW, I sometimes wonder if I'm wrong to continue to believe that.  But then I remind myself that MLW is a very small pool to be drawing conclusions from, and even there I see thoughtful and intelligent posts by conservatives - and so I remind myself not to give too much credence to the idiots.


Quote
Now that's truly the kind of genius that let's you be a progressive who is also a fanatical supporter of extreme Islam and desperate to bring as many far, far far right Muslim religious conservatives to Canada as possible. You should get some kind of award for the bizarro world self-justifications you use for your views.


Who said this?
Quote
  If you want to discuss different opinions in an adult fashion without insults I'm okay with that.
Perhaps you could start modeling the behavior you expect from others.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 26, 2017, 11:47:32 am


Are you really this dense? In the first place, I live in Ottawa. There aren't many natives here, so why would I even have cause to use it routinely? Second, I was very clearly using it and example OF an inappropriate word, and how some nobody using an inappropriate word then winds up being used to smear all conservatives.

Sounds kinda like a feeble attempt to use the old "some of my best friends are (insert racist descriptor) defense.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 26, 2017, 11:51:52 am
Was not the post I responded to talking about lowly person in Canada using the word "Squaw"?   Nothing to do with Nazis, etc. 

Yes, it was.

Quote
But to answer your question:  Antifa.  The left is blamed for those fuckups, just as much as the right is blamed for the nazi/WS fuckups.

Oh bullshit. Trump's big catastrophic week was as a result of trying to lay any blame on them instead of keeping it entirely on the Nazis. Now progressive idiots around the English speaking world are desperately trying to find statues they can get outraged over so they can demand they be torn down. Whether it's Cornwallis and Sir John A McDonald here, or Washington, Jefferson and Roosevelt in the US, or Nelson's column in England or Cook's in Australia.

Quote
Yeah, you were defending it - complaining that it got too much media attention, and that kind of thing should be ignored.

If an MP says it, sure, it should be derided. But if some nobody does then it's not news.

Quote
Who said this? Perhaps you could start modeling the behavior you expect from others.

In fact, my behaviour is a direct response to what I'm shown. Thus if you post politely I respond politely. If you post with accusations and personal insults I respond with the same attitude.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 26, 2017, 12:07:52 pm
And I'm reminded again of the blinding hypocrisy of the left. One rabid moron Nazi, after a day of brawling with leftist morons, drives his car into some, killing one, and the progressive world loses its collective ****. Not only are they in a wild witchunt for all Nazis (who didn't exactly appear out of nowhere last week), but anyone who might be anything like Nazis, like the alt-right, and then anyone who might be showing sympathy to the alt-right, like rebel, and then conservatives in general. Rabid progressives have even transferred their anti-Nazi fervour to inanimate objects like historical statutes.

But let thirty thousand Muslims slaughter people in thirty thousand attacks and the same people will rush to defend Muslims and repeat, over and over again, that Islam is peaceful and almost all Muslims are peaceful, and hey, some of their best friends are Muslims! Or at least, friends, or at least, people willing to let them be near them without being rude. Every time there's a Muslim terrorist event politicians flock to the mosques to tell everyone how Islam is not to blame.

I saw an interview on You tube the other day from after the Charlie Hebdo massacre, where Douglas Murray castigates the interviewer for his first question. To paraphrase, Murray said "We just had this outrageous terrorist attack by Muslims and the first thing that concerns you is whether or not the far right will gain new converts because of it? Seriously!?"
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JMT on August 26, 2017, 12:39:13 pm
Oh bullshit. Trump's big catastrophic week was as a result of trying to lay any blame on them instead of keeping it entirely on the Nazis. Now progressive idiots around the English speaking world are desperately trying to find statues they can get outraged over so they can demand they be torn down. Whether it's Cornwallis and Sir John A McDonald here, or Washington, Jefferson and Roosevelt in the US, or Nelson's column in England or Cook's in Australia.

Yeah, the me too crap is a bit tiring.  I get Lee statues coming down.  They were put there to bring black people down.  McDonald and Washington are not Lee.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JMT on August 26, 2017, 12:42:37 pm
And I'm reminded again of the blinding hypocrisy of the left. One rabid moron Nazi, after a day of brawling with leftist morons, drives his car into some, killing one, and the progressive world loses its collective ****. Not only are they in a wild witchunt for all Nazis (who didn't exactly appear out of nowhere last week), but anyone who might be anything like Nazis, like the alt-right, and then anyone who might be showing sympathy to the alt-right, like rebel, and then conservatives in general. Rabid progressives have even transferred their anti-Nazi fervour to inanimate objects like historical statutes.

But let thirty thousand Muslims slaughter people in thirty thousand attacks and the same people will rush to defend Muslims and repeat, over and over again, that Islam is peaceful

It is - or it was meant to be.

Quote
and almost all Muslims are peaceful, and hey, some of their best friends are Muslims!

While most Muslims are peaceful, it's also true that far too many aren't.  The answer to that is, IMO, counter-radicalization.  Also, we have no way of knowing what friends people have or don't have, as we're just people on the internet.

Quote
I saw an interview on You tube the other day from after the Charlie Hebdo massacre, where Douglas Murray castigates the interviewer for his first question. To paraphrase, Murray said "We just had this outrageous terrorist attack by Muslims and the first thing that concerns you is whether or not the far right will gain new converts because of it? Seriously!?"

To be fair, I'm sure that actually happens.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JMT on August 26, 2017, 12:42:59 pm
Omni and SirJohn - cool it.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: guest4 on August 26, 2017, 12:53:11 pm

In fact, my behaviour is a direct response to what I'm shown. Thus if you post politely I respond politely. If you post with accusations and personal insults I respond with the same attitude.

You responded to my post as if I'd addressed you, when in fact I was responding to Kimmy's post and expressing some thoughts of my own.   In my response to Kimmy's post, I didn't insult anyone - especially not you.  I did ask some questions about the way in which language reflects what we believe and how it can influence perception, but again this did not mention you at all.   I took pains to talk about what I wanted to talk about without being specific. I also asked "questions" rather than making accusations, in the hope of inspiring "discussion" instead of endless sniping. 

You took my post that was not a response to you, did not mention you and did not even remotely insult you as a personal affront, and used it as an excuse to attack and insult me.    If you are going to take any comment I make within a topic that you are also posting in as an insult to you, that is your problem.   If you think that including the word 'conservatives' in a remark that is not complimentary to conservatives is a personal insult to you, let me remind you of the many comments you make about leftists that leftists are not supposed to respond to as if they've been personally insulted.

Once again, perhaps you should try modeling the behavior you expect from others.   

Edited to clarify:  my post that you over-reacted to was actually intended to challenge Kimmy a bit; she can at least respond reasonably and logically.   I can count on her to effectively point out the flaw in any argument using reasoning, rather than relying on wild accusations and insults to 'prove' someone wrong. 



Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: BC_cheque on August 26, 2017, 02:32:30 pm
Oh bullshit. Trump's big catastrophic week was as a result of trying to lay any blame on them instead of keeping it entirely on the Nazis. Now progressive idiots around the English speaking world are desperately trying to find statues they can get outraged over so they can demand they be torn down. Whether it's Cornwallis and Sir John A McDonald here, or Washington, Jefferson and Roosevelt in the US, or Nelson's column in England or Cook's in Australia.


When I first started reading about McDonald in the news and removing his name, my first reaction was to agree with your point.  It does seem like a knee jerk reaction to what's happening in the US.

But then I found out how racist Sir John was, even in the context of his era, and how sympathetic and helpful he was to the confederates backing slavery, and I get it.   

We can be proud of the country and its history without celebrating some of the extreme elements that were part of it. 
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: BC_cheque on August 26, 2017, 02:44:27 pm
Edited to clarify:  my post that you over-reacted to was actually intended to challenge Kimmy a bit; she can at least respond reasonably and logically.   I can count on her to effectively point out the flaw in any argument using reasoning, rather than relying on wild accusations and insults to 'prove' someone wrong.

The whole thing seemed really silly to me, tbh.  Yes, Sir John would've been a lot more tactful if he'd put quotations around that word, and the fact that he didn't could show a level of disregard for its use, but the reaction to it was a bit exaggerated and then SJ's reaction to the criticism certainly didn't help his case.

It really escalated to a point that didn't need to, IMO.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JMT on August 26, 2017, 03:38:35 pm
But then I found out how racist Sir John was, even in the context of his era, and how sympathetic and helpful he was to the confederates backing slavery, and I get it.   

We can be proud of the country and its history without celebrating some of the extreme elements that were part of it.

I get that, I really do, but it's hard to celebrate Canada without celebrating people like McDonald or (SirJohn is shuddering as I say this) Trudeau Sr.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: BC_cheque on August 26, 2017, 03:54:09 pm
I get that, I really do, but it's hard to celebrate Canada without celebrating people like McDonald or (SirJohn is shuddering as I say this) Trudeau Sr.

What's your thoughts on confederate statues in the US?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 26, 2017, 04:56:51 pm
Does anyone think that children in Germany are unaware of their history because there is no "Hitler High School" or "Goring Collegiate" to attend? I think not.
If you wish to celebrate people from history who did things we would consider deplorable today, at least put their likenesses in places where people don't have to walk by them everyday.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JMT on August 26, 2017, 05:03:12 pm
What's your thoughts on confederate statues in the US?

The confederacy doesn't exist anymore - no reason to celebrate it.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JMT on August 26, 2017, 05:10:50 pm
Does anyone think that children in Germany are unaware of their history because there is no "Hitler High School" or "Goring Collegiate" to attend? I think not.
If you wish to celebrate people from history who did things we would consider deplorable today, at least put their likenesses in places where people don't have to walk by them everyday.

McDonald also birthed our nation so...
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: BC_cheque on August 26, 2017, 05:32:51 pm
McDonald also birthed our nation so...

I actually see both sides. It's not as cut and dry as the confederate statues but it's definitely not a non issue either as Sir John made it out to be.

There is a whole lot about McDonald I wasn't aware of. I went from thinking people are getting uptight over nothing to seeing their point.



Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 26, 2017, 06:20:18 pm
When I first started reading about McDonald in the news and removing his name, my first reaction was to agree with your point.  It does seem like a knee jerk reaction to what's happening in the US.

But then I found out how racist Sir John was, even in the context of his era, and how sympathetic and helpful he was to the confederates backing slavery, and I get it.   

We can be proud of the country and its history without celebrating some of the extreme elements that were part of it.

There are no perfect people. In the context of his era he wasn't racist. If he was 'helpful' to the Confederates or had sympathy with them it was likely because relations between the US and Canada were not exactly rosy. The Rideau Canal, which I lived next to for some time, was constructed for military reasons, in fear of another attempt at invasion by the US. It was only finished about thirty odd years before confederation, so one could presume the idea of the US breaking up wasn't likely to cause many tears in Canada.

To repeat what I've said before, there were people in Canada who would have just as soon shot all the natives.  McDonald's purpose in backing the residential school system was to educate and civilize natives so they could one day live together with white people. You know how many white people of the time would have been horrified by the very idea?

Besides, which, given all McDonald accomplished, the idea he should be shunned as beneath us is absurd.

We cannot expect the past to have shared all of today's values; that would only be possible in a world in which there is neither change nor progress. But today's Canada did not fall from the sky this morning. It is not a tabula rasa. Our liberal, democratic, rule-of-law system, with constitutionalism and federalism and habits of negotiation and peaceful coexistence, is what the Fathers of Confederation established and reinforced.
Without the actions they took in the past, our present does not exist, and we have no future.
Putting Macdonald in the same box as Jefferson Davis – just more dead, white, male racists, right? – is the height of ignorance. One diminished human freedom and possibilities. The other created a country that does the opposite.


https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/globe-editorial-goodbye-sir-john-a-goodbye-canada/article36090107/ (https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/globe-editorial-goodbye-sir-john-a-goodbye-canada/article36090107/)
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 26, 2017, 06:29:43 pm
You responded to my post as if I'd addressed you, when in fact I was responding to Kimmy's post and expressing some thoughts of my own.

About me. At least be honest enough to admit that.

Quote
In my response to Kimmy's post, I didn't insult anyone - especially not you.  I did ask some questions about the way in which language reflects what we believe and how it can influence perception, but again this did not mention you at all.

If someone uses an inappropriate word outside their usual circle, doesn't that suggest that for them, that word is familiar and normal?   Then one must ask, why would a word like 'squaw' be familiar or normal to anyone?   Why would someone defend it's use, even in buttfuck nowhere and even if the user is merely a volunteer clerk?  Is casual and unthinking racism acceptable to Conservatives, and so they resent media noticing and people objecting?   If this racism is acceptable to mainstream/moderate Conservatives, then maybe the alt-right and White Supremacists aren't really so much a fringe as we think?


Your post was about me and I responded to it. Stop bitching that when you start smearing me I respond less than politely.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 26, 2017, 06:32:03 pm
Does anyone think that children in Germany are unaware of their history because there is no "Hitler High School" or "Goring Collegiate" to attend? I think not.


Are you actually equating Sir John A MacDonald with Goring or Hitler?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 26, 2017, 06:40:35 pm
To repeat what I pointed out to MH earlier, there used to be 4 million members of the KKK in America. Now there are 5000-8000. There are a half dozen Nazi groups, the largest of which has about 400 members. There are far, far fewer in Canada. Despite the tiny numbers, the Left, particularly progressives, are on a frantic witch hunt against anything they can accuse of being too far right, or associated with anything on the right. There have been four right wing rallies I'm aware of since Charlottesville (Boston, Quebec, Vancouver, San Francisco). Each by a few dozen or a couple of hundred people, none of which were Nazis, KKK members of white supremacists, all of which publicly distanced themselves from those groups and denounced racism. Despite that, there have been massive counter protests, often violent,  against each of these rallies with leftist politicians denouncing them as white supremacists and hate groups.

Like all intellectually autocratic groups which oppose basic freedoms, the Left needs enemies to rally the troops and justify their denial of freedoms, even if they're tiny, unthreatening enemies, even if they have to pump them up into big bogeyman groups that frighten children in their beds. I wonder how long it will be until some leftist politician, perhaps one of Trudeau's boys and girls,  proposes new 'anti-hate' laws which ban any and all unflattering descriptions or statements about racial and religious groups.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 26, 2017, 07:26:03 pm


Like all intellectually autocratic groups which oppose basic freedoms, the Left needs enemies to rally the troops and justify their denial of freedoms,


Are you suggesting it was "the left" who were marching screaming "Jews will not replace us"? Watch the videos and get a feeling for what actually is going on in the world.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 26, 2017, 07:54:00 pm

Like all intellectually autocratic groups which oppose basic freedoms, the Left needs enemies to rally the troops and justify their denial of freedoms,

Are you suggesting it was "the left" who were marching screaming "Jews will not replace us"? Watch the videos and get a feeling for what actually is going on in the world.

That was a couple of hundred morons. So? They had a permit to march and to say whatever the **** they wanted. That's the nature of freedom. What the Left was doing was screaming and yelling and shutting down their right to free speech. Now, maybe I can understand, if not agree with that, given it's Nazis. But the four other rallies which were shut down by screaming mobs were not Nazis or White supremacists. The talk that was supposed to happen at Ryerson was not by Nazis or White supremacists. Countless other talks and discussions cancelled over the last year because of mobs of hostile leftists were not Nazis or racists or White supremacists either.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 26, 2017, 08:03:38 pm
That was a couple of hundred morons. So? They had a permit to march and to say whatever the **** they wanted. That's the nature of freedom. What the Left was doing was screaming and yelling and shutting down their right to free speech. Now, maybe I can understand, if not agree with that, given it's Nazis. But the four other rallies which were shut down by screaming mobs were not Nazis or White supremacists. The talk that was supposed to happen at Ryerson was not by Nazis or White supremacists. Countless other talks and discussions cancelled over the last year because of mobs of hostile leftists were not Nazis or racists or White supremacists either.

"Countless other talks and discussions cancelled" Care to try and verify that or do we just write it off as yet another wild assumption you are famous for? 
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: kimmy on August 27, 2017, 12:19:39 pm
"Countless other talks and discussions cancelled" Care to try and verify that or do we just write it off as yet another wild assumption you are famous for?

I think we can all recall a number of these. Off the top of my head, speaking tours by Ann Coulter or Milo Y have seen numerous venues cancelled in Canada. I recall an incident where Christine Blatchford from the National Post went to a university to speak on some topic and was unable to do so because some leftist group commandeered the stage and the microphone and would not leave.  I think they were mad at her because she did not support the Caledonia native uprising or something.

Here's a list regarding US universities: http://www.businessinsider.com/list-of-disinvited-speakers-at-colleges-2016-7

Some of these are completely ridiculous.

 -k
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: cybercoma on August 28, 2017, 09:24:40 am
Yeah the heat got so ferocious they all had to resign!

Oh... wait...

Has the media even commented on one of the leadership candidates for the NDP being a member of a group which wants to nationalize the banks, insurance companies and auto industries?
Banks and insurance companies should be nationalized and so should phone and internet providers, grocery stores, and property rental companies.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JMT on August 28, 2017, 09:35:14 am
I'm with you on insurance, anyway, seeing as it's just a pyramid scheme.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 09:39:04 am
We saw another example of frenzied left wing hate and violence on the weekend at Berkeley.  The (cough-cough) home of free speech. Black clad left-wing 'anti hate' demonstrators with masks and carrying shields and weapons assaulted right wing people at a 'prayer meeting'.

As with Charlottesville, the violence actually occurred because the police stood by and did nothing. In fact, after saying no weapons of any kind would be allowed they backed off when black clad anarchists showed up with shields and weapons, and then left the park 'to avoid violence'.

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/hooded-anarchists-storm-through-police-ranks-at-berkeley-rally-assault-five-people (http://nationalpost.com/news/world/hooded-anarchists-storm-through-police-ranks-at-berkeley-rally-assault-five-people)
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 09:40:16 am
Banks and insurance companies should be nationalized and so should phone and internet providers, grocery stores, and property rental companies.

Yes, that kind of thing always produces such massive wealth and high standards of living in EVERY SINGLE PLACE it's been tried.

I guess you're nostalgic for the bread lines of the old Soviet Union, huh?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JMT on August 28, 2017, 09:44:49 am
Yes, that kind of thing always produces such massive wealth and high standards of living in EVERY SINGLE PLACE it's been tried.

I guess you're nostalgic for the bread lines of the old Soviet Union, huh?

What about insurance companies?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 28, 2017, 10:00:12 am
We saw another example of frenzied left wing hate and violence on the weekend at Berkeley.  The (cough-cough) home of free speech. Black clad left-wing 'anti hate' demonstrators with masks and carrying shields and weapons assaulted right wing people at a 'prayer meeting'.

As with Charlottesville, the violence actually occurred because the police stood by and did nothing. In fact, after saying no weapons of any kind would be allowed they backed off when black clad anarchists showed up with shields and weapons, and then left the park 'to avoid violence'.

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/hooded-anarchists-storm-through-police-ranks-at-berkeley-rally-assault-five-people (http://nationalpost.com/news/world/hooded-anarchists-storm-through-police-ranks-at-berkeley-rally-assault-five-people)

So you are going to try to  blame the police for what happened in Charlottesville? Cough cough is right. You are as accomplished at moral equivalency as your buddy Trump it would seem.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 10:23:27 am
What about insurance companies?

What about them? If countries like Sweden haven't felt that nationalizing insurance companies was a good idea, why would you think we should do it?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 10:26:23 am
So you are going to try to  blame the police for what happened in Charlottesville? Cough cough is right. You are as accomplished at moral equivalency as your buddy Trump it would seem.

Charlottesville should have been two separate gatherings with a line of police between as we saw in every other instance of such demonstrations. Had that been the case there would have been no violent street brawls. Had their been no street brawls that Nazi who ran people over probably would not have gotten all excited to the point he was somehow able to justify that to himself.

In saying that, I in no way excuse him for his actions, but the truth is if the police had done their jobs that young woman would almost certainly be alive today.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JMT on August 28, 2017, 10:38:26 am
What about them? If countries like Sweden haven't felt that nationalizing insurance companies was a good idea, why would you think we should do it?

Because insurance is basically a for profit scam.  Many provinces have nationalized car insurance.  Why not other areas?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: segnosaur on August 28, 2017, 10:39:51 am
To repeat what I pointed out to MH earlier, there used to be 4 million members of the KKK in America. Now there are 5000-8000. There are a half dozen Nazi groups, the largest of which has about 400 members.
You keep pointing to the size of each of the individual right-wing extremest groups, but you seem to ignore the fact that while an individual group may be small, the overall number of groups themselves is significant. Plus, you also have people who may share the same ideology as various racist organizations but just haven't adopted a membership.

It should also be pointed out that, for the past decade (ending in 2016), right wing extremists accounted for 74% of all murders by extremists. On the other hand, Islamic terrorists accounted for 24% Left wing extremists accounted for ~2%. So, which group do you think demands the most attention?

https://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/murder-and-extremism-in-the-united-states-in-2016
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: TimG on August 28, 2017, 11:24:04 am
Because insurance is basically a for profit scam.  Many provinces have nationalized car insurance.  Why not other areas?
WTF? Insurance is a way to share risk that is no more a scam than any other finacial product. Private insurance is problematic only when the law requires people to purchase insurance (e.g. autos) or when it is essential service (e.g. medical). Property insurance, life insurance, liability insurance do not fall into these categories and there should be no issue with privately run companies offering these types of insurance.   
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 11:51:31 am
Because insurance is basically a for profit scam.  Many provinces have nationalized car insurance.  Why not other areas?

How is it a scam? It's certainly for-profit, but since when is that a bad thing? Do you operate your business to lose money?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JMT on August 28, 2017, 11:52:54 am
How is it a scam? It's certainly for-profit, but since when is that a bad thing? Do you operate your business to lose money?

The job of insurance agents is to find reasons to deny claims.  I don't tend to operate my business that way.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 12:06:39 pm
You keep pointing to the size of each of the individual right-wing extremest groups, but you seem to ignore the fact that while an individual group may be small, the overall number of groups themselves is significant.

Really? So what is the size of the overall extremist right wing groups? I googled Nazis and white supremacists to get he numbers I gave. If you have other numbers post them. I think it's telling that the most they can put up for one of their rallies is a few hundred people.

Quote
It should also be pointed out that, for the past decade (ending in 2016), right wing extremists accounted for 74% of all murders by extremists. On the other hand, Islamic terrorists accounted for 24% Left wing extremists accounted for ~2%. So, which group do you think demands the most attention?

The Muslims. Because the vast majority of the extremist violence from the far right is unplanned and generally comes from individual anti-government loonies resisting the orders of police and courts and trying to get out of paying taxes. And because they're far right and American they're all armed. As such, they're not much danger to most people.

If you want a laugh sometime look up 'sovereign citizen' on you tube and see all these loonies being pulled over by police trying to say they're not responsible for having drivers licences and don't have to roll down the window because they're a sovereign citizen and getting yanked out of their cars and handcuffed.

But the far right isn't going to want to poison a reservoir, or blow up a nuclear power station, or set off a car bomb next to a school, or drive a truck through a crowd of shoppers or tourists. A far right extremist isn't going to run down the street stabbing and shooting people at random.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 28, 2017, 12:26:59 pm
Really? So what is the size of the overall extremist right wing groups? I googled Nazis and white supremacists to get he numbers I gave. If you have other numbers post them. I think it's telling that the most they can put up for one of their rallies is a few hundred people.

The Muslims. Because the vast majority of the extremist violence from the far right is unplanned and generally comes from individual anti-government loonies resisting the orders of police and courts and trying to get out of paying taxes. And because they're far right and American they're all armed. As such, they're not much danger to most people.

If you want a laugh sometime look up 'sovereign citizen' on you tube and see all these loonies being pulled over by police trying to say they're not responsible for having drivers licences and don't have to roll down the window because they're a sovereign citizen and getting yanked out of their cars and handcuffed.

But the far right isn't going to want to poison a reservoir, or blow up a nuclear power station, or set off a car bomb next to a school, or drive a truck through a crowd of shoppers or tourists. A far right extremist isn't going to run down the street stabbing and shooting people at random.

Here we go with the xenophobia again , or did you just choose to ignore the stats provided? And wasn't it a far right extremist who most recently did in fact drive a car through a crowd?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: wilber on August 28, 2017, 12:48:18 pm
Because insurance is basically a for profit scam.  Many provinces have nationalized car insurance.  Why not other areas?

Sure can be for government. In 2010 the BC government passed legislation that allowed it to syphon off ICBC earnings into general revenue and proceeded to transfer 1.2 billion in ICBC assets to government. Even though the company has lost money for the past three years, the government has continued to take 150M a year from its revenues. Now the company is over 600 million in the hole and looking at big premium increases or an injection of funds from government in order to stay solvent. The BC government also raids BC Hydro assets in a similar fashion.

When you nationalize something, it also becomes a political tool used for purposes unrelated to the service it provides.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2890769/b-c-government-crown-cash-cows/ (http://globalnews.ca/news/2890769/b-c-government-crown-cash-cows/)
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 03:43:49 pm
Here we go with the xenophobia again , or did you just choose to ignore the stats provided? And wasn't it a far right extremist who most recently did in fact drive a car through a crowd?

I explained that. Your habit of getting upset and frustrated at not being able to understand things, and then resorting to insta-outrage, is tiresome.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 28, 2017, 03:47:16 pm
I explained that. Your habit of getting upset and frustrated at not being able to understand things, and then resorting to insta-outrage, is tiresome.

I don't get upset, that's your domain. I just call a spade a spade. I'm not sure what you are suggesting you explained. Maybe try again.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JMT on August 28, 2017, 03:48:36 pm
Omni, I'm going to have to give you quote tag lessons :P
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 28, 2017, 03:55:48 pm
Omni, I'm going to have to give you quote tag lessons :P

Yes, what am I missing.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: cybercoma on August 28, 2017, 04:26:43 pm
Yes, that kind of thing always produces such massive wealth and high standards of living in EVERY SINGLE PLACE it's been tried.

I guess you're nostalgic for the bread lines of the old Soviet Union, huh?
I am more nostalgic for your ludicrous hyperbole.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: cybercoma on August 28, 2017, 04:32:37 pm
Here we go with the xenophobia again , or did you just choose to ignore the stats provided? And wasn't it a far right extremist who most recently did in fact drive a car through a crowd?
There,s nothing to worry about here /s

http://fortune.com/2017/08/26/charlottesville-violence-leaked-chats/

Well before a white nationalist “Unite the Right” demonstration turned deadly in Charlottesville this month, attendees were planning for violence, according to leaked online chats. In private chat channels, they shared advice on weaponry and tactics, including repeatedly broaching the idea of driving vehicles through opposition crowds. After the vehicular attack which killed counterprotestor Heather Heyer, users of the channel celebrated the event.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 28, 2017, 04:48:02 pm
There,s nothing to worry about here /s

http://fortune.com/2017/08/26/charlottesville-violence-leaked-chats/

Well before a white nationalist “Unite the Right” demonstration turned deadly in Charlottesville this month, attendees were planning for violence, according to leaked online chats. In private chat channels, they shared advice on weaponry and tactics, including repeatedly broaching the idea of driving vehicles through opposition crowds. After the vehicular attack which killed counterprotestor Heather Heyer, users of the channel celebrated the event.

A very scary read, but I'm not surprised. What's also scary is that there are those, (some even on this forum) that try to support the "moral equivalency" defense that Trump has trotted out.   
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 28, 2017, 05:50:44 pm
A very scary read, but I'm not surprised. What's also scary is that there are those, (some even on this forum) that try to support the "moral equivalency" defense that Trump has trotted out.

What's scarier is that there is no centre, and no unifying force to stop the escalating tension.  Weapons weren't used this time, but what happens when they are ?

The commander-in-chief will not condemn them, and the finger pointing will continue as Antifa arms up.  Next come summary executions, and with that a family of violence that can't be contained with our existing police forces.

You don't need a crystal ball to see where this is going.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 05:57:27 pm
I am more nostalgic for your ludicrous hyperbole.

Why is it ridiculous? You talk about nationalizing a whole slate of industries like the Soviets did - the Venezuelans, and I'm not supposed to point out how that ALWAYS turns out?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 06:01:41 pm
There,s nothing to worry about here /

I never said/suggested there was 'nothing to worry' about wrt far right extremists. I just said Muslims were more into causing widespread death. And it might well be that these people talked on the internet about driving a car through crowds of counter protestors. But the fact remains this is the first time any of them did it, and it came after a day of street brawls which should not have happened. And he has not been charged with terrorist offenses. I haven't seen much on his motivation, but I think it likely it was anger and revenge, much like the guy who gets beat up/thrown out of a bar, gets his gung and goes back shooting.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 06:08:19 pm
What's scarier is that there is no centre, and no unifying force to stop the escalating tension.  Weapons weren't used this time, but what happens when they are ?

The commander-in-chief will not condemn them, and the finger pointing will continue as Antifa arms up.  Next come summary executions, and with that a family of violence that can't be contained with our existing police forces.

You don't need a crystal ball to see where this is going.

I will repeat an excerpt from a  post I made elsewhere many months ago because I believe it's pertinent. There are very few of these far right people. As long as there are very few it's quite manageable.

Your argument reached me just as I was returning to the work of Karen Stenner, who wrote a book about the forces that tear countries apart. Some people, who she calls “libertarians,” strongly prefer freedom and diversity, she wrote, while others, who she calls “authoritarians,” possess a perhaps innate discomfort with difference. They prize sameness and unity, even if coercion is needed to enforce it. Countries devolve into conflict when the predispositions of the authoritarians are activated.
They hire fascists to do jobs that liberals won’t do.

In her telling, showily, absolutely insisting on unconstrained diversity “pushes those by nature least equipped to live comfortably in a liberal democracy not to the limits of their tolerance, but to their intolerant extremes.” And once authoritarians are activated, the outcome depends in part on how its conservatives react. If they side with the authoritarians, repressive policies follow. But under the right conditions, conservatives can be counted on to rally behind pluralism and tolerance. One condition is that they feel reassured "regarding established brakes on the pace of change, and the settled rules of the game.”

Thus my alarm. When it comes to immigration, many conservatives presently fear that there are no breaks on the pace of change, and that the rules of the game are being broken.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/debating-immigration-policy-at-a-populist-moment/518916/

Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 28, 2017, 06:14:12 pm
I will repeat an excerpt from a  post I made elsewhere many months ago because I believe it's pertinent. There are very few of these far right people. As long as there are very few it's quite manageable.

'few' meaning low percentage ?  It's not comforting to me.  If 5% of the population is willing to engage in open or stealth warfare it's too much.

The rest of your post seems to be about immigration which is irrelevant to this discussion, to my mind. 
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: cybercoma on August 28, 2017, 08:06:01 pm
'few' meaning low percentage ?  It's not comforting to me.  If 5% of the population is willing to engage in open or stealth warfare it's too much.

The rest of your post seems to be about immigration which is irrelevant to this discussion, to my mind.
Not to mention the radical right wing has killed FAR more people in North America and even the West than radical Islamists, but hey....pay no attention to the white man behind the curtain....there's Mooselems at our door.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: TimG on August 28, 2017, 08:12:05 pm
Not to mention the radical right wing has killed FAR more people in North America and even the West than radical Islamists, but hey....pay no attention to the white man behind the curtain....there's Mooselems at our door.
What are you talking about? 9/11 killed 3000. Oklahoma was the worst with only 168 deaths. In terms of risk Islamic radicals are a far greater threat to the public than "right wing groups".
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 08:16:14 pm
'few' meaning low percentage ?  It's not comforting to me.  If 5% of the population is willing to engage in open or stealth warfare it's too much.

That would put their numbers at about 15 million. That seems extremely unlikely or we'd see WAY larger numbers of members in the KKK/Nazi/White supremacist groups.

Quote
The rest of your post seems to be about immigration which is irrelevant to this discussion, to my mind.

Really? What was his number one promise? What got him his first huge bump in popularity? Keeping out Mexicans and building that wall. Muslims. Keep em out. Immigrants. Too many. America first. ?

Irrelevant? Hardly.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 28, 2017, 08:31:35 pm
Not to mention the radical right wing has killed FAR more people in North America and even the West than radical Islamists, but hey....pay no attention to the white man behind the curtain....there's Mooselems at our door.

It's not the right wing that I'm counting in my 5%, it's extreme right and left groups.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: cybercoma on August 28, 2017, 08:32:34 pm
What are you talking about? 9/11 killed 3000. Oklahoma was the worst with only 168 deaths. In terms of risk Islamic radicals are a far greater threat to the public than "right wing groups".
You think those are the only two attacks?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 28, 2017, 08:33:17 pm
Really? What was his number one promise? What got him his first huge bump in popularity? Keeping out Mexicans and building that wall. Muslims. Keep em out. Immigrants. Cut it. Irrelevant? Hardly.

It's not about the issue anymore - it's about extreme right/left violence.  The issues don't matter.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 08:37:49 pm
It's not about the issue anymore - it's about extreme right/left violence.  The issues don't matter.

Your worry is about where things are going. The cite I posted pointed out that on their own the extremists can't do much. They need help from conservatives.

On that other web site, you know the one, of the people who support Trump, how important does immigration seem to be to them?
What makes you think it's not even more important to American Trump supporters?

And the cite didn't just talk about immigration, btw, as a key. It said "regarding established brakes on the pace of change, and the settled rules of the game.”

And btw, the groups who are being attacked by leftist groups while trying to hold rallies etc. the last week, those are not Nazis or white supremacists, but mostly just Trump supporters, or people protesting against Islam. This kind of behavior is really going to **** them off. Especially when it looks like the police are willing to stand aside and do nothing.

When I read that story about the attack on the prayer thing at Berkeley I got angry. And I am most certainly neither a Trump supporter or a religious person.
So how do you think the Trump supporters and religious people in the US are going to react?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: wilber on August 28, 2017, 08:44:45 pm
It's not the right wing that I'm counting in my 5%, it's extreme right and left groups.

5%? Thats only 17 million Americans, give or take. Nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 28, 2017, 08:50:05 pm
Your worry is about where things are going. The cite I posted pointed out that on their own the extremists can't do much. They need help from conservatives.

The from the Atlantic about immigration ?

Quote
On that other web site, you know the one, of the people who support Trump, how important does immigration seem to be to them?
What makes you think it's not even more important to American Trump supporters?

It's utterly irrelevant to the discussion of extremist violence.  Even now, policy discussions are barely part of the discussion.  It's "us" vs "them".
 
Quote
And btw, the groups who are being attacked by leftist groups while trying to hold rallies etc. the last week, those are not Nazis or white supremacists, but mostly just Trump supporters, or people protesting against Islam. This kind of behavior is really going to **** them off. Especially when it looks like the police are willing to stand aside and do nothing.

You're not getting it.  I'm talking about extreme left and right violence.  You telling me "this is really going to **** them off" makes no sense in the context of what I'm talking about.

---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   

Here's what's going to happen in the worst case: more protests, but with shootings and gun violence.  There will be no consensus on who is at fault, or what to do.  There will be no leadership that can unify.  Violence will morph into targeted assassinations or something else.  With large groups coordinating online, there will be little that law enforcement can do.

I'm worried about this because I don't see any guardrails that are preventing this.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 09:15:55 pm
Here's what's going to happen in the worst case: more protests, but with shootings and gun violence.  There will be no consensus on who is at fault, or what to do.  There will be no leadership that can unify.  Violence will morph into targeted assassinations or something else.  With large groups coordinating online, there will be little that law enforcement can do.

I'm worried about this because I don't see any guardrails that are preventing this.

You prevent it by addressing the frustration, anger and sense of alienation on the part of the right and far right, just to start. A lot of commentary on Trump being elected had to do with people who voted for him because they wanted to "trash the system". You don't want to trash the system unless you feel you're being ignored by it and it's acting against your interests.

Good policing stops street violence. But that's a temporary measure. Still, if you stop the street violence you put a cork on the back and forth revenge attacks - like I believe that lunatic in the car in Charleston likely was.

Unfortunately, the US has a dearth of good leadership right now, on either side of the political fence. The Republicans are aiming too much to please their conservative/religious base, and the Democrats are aiming too much to please their progressive Identity politics base. No one is looking at that mass of people in the middle. Trump called out to poor, lower income whites and it worked because neither of the parties had paid them or their problems the slightest attention up  until then.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 28, 2017, 09:21:07 pm
You prevent it by addressing the frustration, anger and sense of alienation on the part of the right and far right, just to start. A lot of commentary on Trump being elected had to do with people who voted for him because they wanted to "trash the system". You don't want to trash the system unless you feel you're being ignored by it and it's acting against your interests.

But he won.  So what else needs to be done ?  And what about the left ?  I thought they were also perpetuating violence.

Quote
Good policing stops street violence. But that's a temporary measure. Still, if you stop the street violence you put a cork on the back and forth revenge attacks - like I believe that lunatic in the car in Charleston likely was.

How ?

I don't see a way.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 28, 2017, 09:42:55 pm
But he won.

Trump is not the solution to the sense of alienation on the right. He simply took advantage of it. He doesn't give a **** about any of those people. And he's not going to do much of anything on their behalf except tinker with stuff like immigration.

Quote
So what else needs to be done ?

The Democrats used to be the party of the lower middle class/working class Americans. They abandoned them to play identity politics just like the Republicans abandoned them to court the moneyed interests of corporate America and the eager ardent support of evangelicals. I think both parties need to reach out to them.

Quote
  And what about the left ?  I thought they were also perpetuating violence.

The Left needs to stop pretending every single policy they believe in is 100% morally pure and righteous, and everyone who disagrees is scum who need to be silenced. It is that attitude, which started on college campuses, which has spread now to incite the leftist mobs in the streets.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 28, 2017, 09:56:52 pm
Trump is not the solution to the sense of alienation on the right. He simply took advantage of it. He doesn't give a **** about any of those people. And he's not going to do much of anything on their behalf except tinker with stuff like immigration.

Ok, but their guy did win.  If he can't alleviate this, it's doubtful there will be another politician soon who will make the right feel that they have a guy who is ostensibly as far right as him.

Quote
The Democrats used to be the party of the lower middle class/working class Americans. They abandoned them to play identity politics just like the Republicans abandoned them to court the moneyed interests of corporate America and the eager ardent support of evangelicals. I think both parties need to reach out to them.

Maybe - but they would also have to keep the support they have in the centre to do so.  It can't be an either/or thing.

Quote

The Left needs to stop pretending every single policy they believe in is 100% morally pure and righteous, and everyone who disagrees is scum who need to be silenced. It is that attitude, which started on college campuses, which has spread now to incite the leftist mobs in the streets.

Not realistic.  It's like leftists in my news feed saying that the right just has to stop being so racist.  Leopards won't change their spots.  A big personality like Trump could unify but it would have to be a unifier.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on August 28, 2017, 10:16:22 pm
Trump is not the solution to the sense of alienation on the right. He simply took advantage of it. He doesn't give a **** about any of those people. And he's not going to do much of anything on their behalf except tinker with stuff like immigration.

The Democrats used to be the party of the lower middle class/working class Americans. They abandoned them to play identity politics just like the Republicans abandoned them to court the moneyed interests of corporate America and the eager ardent support of evangelicals. I think both parties need to reach out to them.

The Left needs to stop pretending every single policy they believe in is 100% morally pure and righteous, and everyone who disagrees is scum who need to be silenced. It is that attitude, which started on college campuses, which has spread now to incite the leftist mobs in the streets.

Maybe you should stop pretending it wasn't alt right people carrying flags and guns, and screaming racist slurs who filled the streets in Charlottesville. You and Trump seem to be tarred with that same moral equivalency
 brush.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: MH on August 29, 2017, 05:52:06 am
New topic.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 29, 2017, 10:44:37 am
Ok, but their guy did win.  If he can't alleviate this, it's doubtful there will be another politician soon who will make the right feel that they have a guy who is ostensibly as far right as him.

He didn't alleviate it because he's not a member of either party and doesn't know how to work with either of them to get things done. Well plus he's a moron. But if the country wants to heal itself its political classes needs to find a way to reach out to the white middle and lower class.

Quote
Not realistic.  It's like leftists in my news feed saying that the right just has to stop being so racist.  Leopards won't change their spots.  A big personality like Trump could unify but it would have to be a unifier.

Trump isn't capable of leadership. We both know that. I think a column in the Post today sums things up somewhat well.

There are two main theories of Trump’s support. One is that a large minority of Americans—40 per cent, give or take—are racist idiots. This theory is at least tacitly endorsed by the Democratic Party and the mainstream liberal media. The other is that a large majority of this large minority are good citizens with intelligible and legitimate opinions who so resent being regarded as racist idiots that they’ll back Trump almost regardless. They may not admire the man but he’s on their side, he vents their frustration, he afflicts the people who think so little of them—and that’s good enough.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/clive-crook-why-reasonable-people-can-still-support-trump (http://nationalpost.com/opinion/clive-crook-why-reasonable-people-can-still-support-trump)
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: wilber on August 29, 2017, 11:56:02 am
So tying oneself to someone like Trump is supposed to convince people that you are someone with intelligent and legitimate opinions. What am I missing here?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 30, 2017, 03:14:02 pm
So tying oneself to someone like Trump is supposed to convince people that you are someone with intelligent and legitimate opinions. What am I missing here?

I think the point was they didn't vote for him because he was racist but because they felt everyone else was shitting on them so why not vote for someone who will **** on THOSE people.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: wilber on August 30, 2017, 07:35:39 pm
I think the point was they didn't vote for him because he was racist but because they felt everyone else was shitting on them so why not vote for someone who will **** on them.

I get the point, unfortunately you get the whole package. I'll bet a lot of people voted for Hitler using the same logic.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 30, 2017, 08:01:44 pm
I get the point, unfortunately you get the whole package. I'll bet a lot of people voted for Hitler using the same logic.

As a matter of fact, a lot of people voted for Hitler because of, uhm, fear and anger at the left. There were a lot of violent Bolsheviks in Germany at the time.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: wilber on August 30, 2017, 08:08:27 pm
As a matter of fact, a lot of people voted for Hitler because of, uhm, fear and anger at the left. There were a lot of violent Bolsheviks in Germany at the time.

Like I said, you get the whole package.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 30, 2017, 08:17:25 pm
Like I said, you get the whole package.

Yep. I wouldn't have voted for the guy. But there are a lot of people who just figure nobody could be worse than the people who hate them. So why not try?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: wilber on August 30, 2017, 08:22:11 pm
Yep. I wouldn't have voted for the guy. But there are a lot of people who just figure nobody could be worse than the people who hate them. So why not try?

Hate is one of the most over used words in the English language. It isn't enough to dislike, disagree or even ignore, hate covers it all and shuts down all discussion.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: SirJohn on August 30, 2017, 08:54:12 pm
Hate is one of the most over used words in the English language. It isn't enough to dislike, disagree or even ignore, hate covers it all and shuts down all discussion.

In this case does it make any difference? No one is even trying to talk to them anyway. Certainly the Democrats made little effort, and the Republicans, well, if you haven't got a million dollars they don't even know you exist.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: wilber on August 30, 2017, 08:59:03 pm
In this case does it make any difference? No one is even trying to talk to them anyway. Certainly the Democrats made little effort, and the Republicans, well, if you haven't got a million dollars they don't even know you exist.

None of those things is hate.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JBG on September 06, 2017, 02:18:53 pm
So, fun times for Ezra Levant this week.  Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
I met both of them at a presentation in New York City about 10 years ago. While I agree with them politically I found both of them somewhere between coarse and rude.
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: Omni on September 06, 2017, 02:44:36 pm
I met both of them at a presentation in New York City about 10 years ago. While I agree with them politically I found both of them somewhere between course and rude.

I think the phrase you were trying for is "COARSE and rude". Shall we then conclude that that describes your political stance?
Title: Re: "Rebel Media" imploding this week
Post by: JBG on September 06, 2017, 05:26:01 pm
I think the phrase you were trying for is "COARSE and rude". Shall we then conclude that that describes your political stance?
I fixed the spelling. On a personal basis I am not rude. In politics, coarseness is in the eye of the beholder.