Canadian Politics Today
Federal Politics => Canadian Politics => Topic started by: kimmy on July 01, 2017, 01:44:27 pm
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Recently a Canadian sniper set a new record for longest confirmed kill-- killing a Daesh fighter preparing to ambush our allies from over 3.5 km away. Prime Minister Trudeau said the achievement was “something to be celebrated for the excellence of the Canadian Forces in their training, in the performance of their duties.”
I agree-- first off, Trudeau framed it as celebrating the excellence of our Armed Forces personnel. I see nothing wrong with that. In fact, 3 of the 5 longest confirmed kills were performed by Canadian snipers. One American and one Brit are on the list. The Canadians serving overseas no doubt took pride in the recognition. And secondly, ISIS are the scum of the earth and I think that any death of a Daesh fighter is cause for celebration.
The Toronto Star feels this is entirely inappropriate, however. Here they scold Trudeau for saying the sniper's achievement was cause for celebration. All life is valuable, they say, and that even the death of an ISIS fighter is cause for sober reflection on the loss of life.
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2017/07/02/sniper-shot-is-no-cause-to-celebrate-editorial.html
To me it seems ridiculous. That guy, whoever he was, was fighting for a group responsible for sickening brutality. The world is a better place without him. That's my view, at least.
Am I a psychopath, or is the Toronto Star out of their freaking gourds?
-k
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You're aware the Star is (as far as I know) the only news organization in Canada which has, as part of their guiding mandate, to push progressive and liberal views, right? As far as the Star is concerned there should be no guns in Canada, and no military. As long as we're nice, everyone else will be nice. Besides, the guy he killed was almost certainly not White, which makes it much more terrible that he did it. He should have arrested him and given him a proper trial.
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I think the bigger issue is why was a sniper shooting at ISIS while in Iraq in the first place. Harper got us knee-deep into the Iraq War to risk blood & treasure to fix problems created by other stupid countries, Trudeau seems fine continuing this.
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I think the bigger issue is why was a sniper shooting at ISIS while in Iraq in the first place. Harper got us knee-deep into the Iraq War to risk blood & treasure to fix problems created by other stupid countries, Trudeau seems fine continuing this.
Trying to fix stuff, I presume. I think it was Colin Powell who said 'You break it, you own it" in reference to Iraq. If you presume the state of Iraq today has something to do with western intervention then some might suggest we should help fix things.
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I have no strong opinion here. Military is necessary, and as such there is a dark art and even a pragmatic humanity in what they do.
I don't see the value in taking one side of a difficult question, and asking if they are crazy or even worse ascribing a conspiracy theory to their opinion.
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Trying to fix stuff, I presume. I think it was Colin Powell who said 'You break it, you own it" in reference to Iraq. If you presume the state of Iraq today has something to do with western intervention then some might suggest we should help fix things.
I agree to a point but in the last 16 years since the 'war on terror' began, not only is fighting militarily not helping, terror is just worse year after year.
A lot of us sane people predicted this when Bush was going into Iraq, but the war-mongers wanted to see some Arab blood fresh after 9-11 and didn't really care about the ramifications. Now the chickens are coming home to roost and the answer is to continue digging while getting deeper.
Sadly, unlike 2003, I don't even know what the Plan B is anymore but all I know Plan A isn't working.
Maybe it's like Vietnam, a war that can't be won. We just need to let the Middle East sort itself out.
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Terror isn't actually worse in terms of casualties though. We've done a pretty good job of destabilizing the terror networks, but it's hard to beat an idea.
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Yes, it's hard to beat an idea that gets stronger with every bomb.
And I'm not sure where you're getting the number of casualties from. What are you basing it on, attacks on westerns nations? Including 9-11?
If so, that one event would skew the numbers substantially.
If you include terror attack in the middle east, it's definitely worse now than ever.
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Yes, it's hard to beat an idea that gets stronger with every bomb.
And I'm not sure where you're getting the number of casualties from. What are you basing it on, attacks on westerns nations? Including 9-11?
If so, that one event would skew the numbers substantially.
If you include terror attack in the middle east, it's definitely worse now than ever.
I'm speaking of terror deaths in western countries. There were several major attacks, such as those in London and Madrid m,id last decade that don't seem to be possible now. Events now are generally much smaller, if no less tragic.
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Well, I don't discount the lives of the people dying in the middle-east. Overall, terror is killing way more people than 2001 and it's very concerning.
Also, even if accepting your stats about the number of casualties as truth, it's irrelevant. For argument's sake, let's accept that they're smaller and less destructive. They're way more frequent which goes to show there are more people willing to drive a car into crowd than fly a plane into a building. That's not a good thing.
Also, if the end goal of terrorism is to strike fear in the mind of society, it's actually more efficient way to go about it. Every time there is a big crowd for something, I think to myself that one day it'll happen in Canada too and someone will end up running a truck through the crowd or pulling out a gun and start killing people randomly. I don't think of a mass orchestrated plan at all though. As the attacks become more mainstream, the chances of them happening seem to become more likely too and not as unfathomable.
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I think the bigger issue is why was a sniper shooting at ISIS while in Iraq in the first place. Harper got us knee-deep into the Iraq War to risk blood & treasure to fix problems created by other stupid countries, Trudeau seems fine continuing this.
I don't think anyone can point to one specific cause of the rise of ISIS. But even if the problems were caused mainly by other countries (such as the U.S. removal of Saddam and its problematic occupation), the fact is ISIS exists, and many people in the middle east are suffering for it through no fault of their own. Military action aimed partly at helping those people would be acceptable to many people (including myself).
There is also the more selfish motive... even if Canada didn't have a hand in creating ISIS, we could possibly be affected regardless.
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Without the Iraq war stupidity, ISIS would not have the influence and power they have today. It was a direct result.
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Without the Iraq war stupidity, ISIS would not have the influence and power they have today. It was a direct result.
I'd say the bigger problem wasn't the war itself, but the way the U.S. handled the aftermath... The way they disbanded the military, etc. But I also think there were other players: The Syrian government (who took no efforts to deal with ISIS early on, and in some cases supported them), the whole "Arab Spring" (which also had a destabilizing effect.)
But regardless of the cause, the end result is the same... a large group of individuals (citizens in Iraq/Syria living in/near ISIS territory) who are subject to significant repression. Having Canada sit back and point fingers doesn't help those people. And while the long term solutions will be more complex than "Lets bomb them", in the short term military action is probably the best way to go.
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Military is necessary, and as such there is a dark art and even a pragmatic humanity in what they do.
I agree with this. But I also get uncomfortable "celebrating" incredible success in blowing off a man's head. Even if that man might be scum.
I felt the same when Bin Laden was killed. People were celebrating with glee, but I think we should be more humble & civil when taking a person's life when it may be necessary. We should be pleased in our effectiveness to carry out terrible but necessary missions. Smiles and happy celebrations seem out of place.
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I agree with this. But I also get uncomfortable "celebrating" incredible success in blowing off a man's head. Even if that man might be scum.
Yes. At the core, some of these people are soldiers and not terrorists.
Smiles and happy celebrations seem out of place.
I agree.
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Yes. At the core, some of these people are soldiers and not terrorists.
Even if they are "soldiers" rather than "terrorists", they are serving a cause that people should find abhorrent. The idea that slavery and beheadings for no other reason than "they pray the wrong way" are wrong is something that should be well-established, and that ISIS rejects the idea of basic human rights is well known.
They are not like regular civilians drafted into the 1940s German army, serving a country they may have been born into. Instead, they voluntarily agreed to join the fight, often traveling around the world to sign in to ISIS, all to serve a religious extremist ideal which involves harming others. The fact that they happen to wear a uniform instead of civilian clothes does not absolve them of that fact.
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Yes. At the core, some of these people are soldiers and not terrorists.
Well the point is that they're all human beings.
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They are not like regular civilians drafted into the 1940s German army, serving a country they may have been born into. Instead, they voluntarily agreed to join the fight, often traveling around the world ..
Wait - our guys or theirs ?
Anyway, there's no arguing morality. I have stated my opinion above, thanks for yours.
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Well the point is that they're all human beings.
I will defer to military culture, as they have their own way of celebrating victory and even honouring their opponents.
But I won't celebrate.
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They are not like regular civilians drafted into the 1940s German army, serving a country they may have been born into. Instead, they voluntarily agreed to join the fight, often traveling around the world ..
Wait - our guys or theirs ?
I was making a comparison between a soldier in the German military during WW2 (who's actions, however honorable on the battlefield, ultimately ended up supporting a government involved in the holocaust) and a solder of ISIS (who is involved in their own set of human right's abuses).
Ultimately, both soldiers supported the actions of a 'deplorable' government, but at least the German solder could argue "I was Protecting my country"... your regular ISIS soldier probably can't make the same claim.
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Trying to fix stuff, I presume.
Saddam Hussein seemed to have things under control.
Now Saudi Arabia.....
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I agree with this. But I also get uncomfortable "celebrating" incredible success in blowing off a man's head. Even if that man might be scum.
I felt the same when Bin Laden was killed. People were celebrating with glee, but I think we should be more humble & civil when taking a person's life when it may be necessary. We should be pleased in our effectiveness to carry out terrible but necessary missions. Smiles and happy celebrations seem out of place.
We should respect the achievement while being disappointed that it was necessary.
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Saddam Hussein seemed to have things under control.
Now Saudi Arabia.....
Depends on how you define 'under control'.
Many people point to the "unnecessary" deaths caused by the invasion, or the destabilizing effect and rise of ISIS. But the fact is, Saddam was not a nice guy. Remember, while Iraq wasn't behind 9/11, they still were supporting other terrorist groups. And he is a guy who had thousands of his own citizens killed.
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Saddam wasn't a nice guy. He killed a lot of people. And now we're over there fixing things....by killing a lot of people.
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Yeah, the Saudis are basically ISIS with international recognition. What a shitbag country.
The Canadian presence in the Levant is intended to be in instruction and training of the Iraqi armed forces (and other anti-ISIS allies) and as such it shouldn't be too surprising that some of our personnel are within 3.5 km of active combat. If a Canadian soldier stepped outside the instruction-and-training role to perform an action that saved the lives of our allies in the conflict, I think that's great and I don't care if the NDP feel otherwise. In fact, like Prime Minister Trudeau, I think that's cause to celebrate our excellent armed forces personnel.
I guess what I found galling was the tone of the Toronto Star piece. I don't want to use the phrase "political correctness", but I can't think of a better way to phrase it. I mean, I'm usually on the side defending "political correctness" against reactionary voices, but in this, I just can't buy in. The idea that a death, even an ISIS fighter, is nothing to celebrate, is just ... wrong. It's wrong. Sorry.
If somebody could have killed Marc Lepine before he killed 14 people, that would have been cause for celebration. If somebody could have killed him before he killed the 14th victim, that still would have been cause for celebration. If somebody would have killed him before he killed his 13th victim, that still would have been cause for celebration. And so on. Given that the Canadian sniper stopped what would have been an ambush of anti-ISIS allies, we don't know for sure how many lives were saved, but potentially there were at least some. We don't know how many people the slain ISIS fighter might have killed in the future, but it potentially it is at least some. We don't need to know how many people the ISIS fighter might have killed any more than we need to know how good of a marksman Marc Lepine was to know that it would have been good if he'd been killed before we had to find out.
The Star piece proposes that every life has value. I question this. ISIS stands for murder, ****, torture, slavery, and oppression. If you sign up to fight for those values, you DESERVE a bullet in the head. "He had a family"? Don't care. "He could have been rehabilited"? **** you. "He might have been brainwashed or coerced?" Don't give a ****. **** that guy. Glad he's dead. His death is one tiny victory in the fight to prevent more like him from being born or recruited.
-k
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You wrote the post that I don't agree with, but have no response to. I think that means we're discussed it well.
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Like it or not, we are all on a "side". Me, I'm on the side of the west and western values. Anyone who says they are not on a "side", is on the other side. Yes, I hate to say the obvious "you're either with us or you're against us", but sadly, that is what it always comes to. You may not like it, because you want to be good people - "every life has value, even those of ISIS" and "oh hey, we all just want the same thing". There are some of you who think we started it and therefore "deserve" whatever we get - well, that's all sort of irrelevant now, we have to deal with the present situation. It's always interesting when people say "they're only fighting for their freedom" or "they're fighting us because of western policy" - that fact is; they are fighting us - and by "us", I mean all of us - not just the military, not just the Americans or Trump - all of us. You can be "politically correct" while you sit on a couch in you middle class home, preaching to all of us "racists" about how nice the Islams are - I mean, didn't Germany, France, Belguim and Sweden do the same thing. I don't feel anything for a dead ISIS fighter, and I don't feel a thing for their parents or family either - nothing. I would cry tears of joy if someone put big chunk of lead in Omar Khadr's skull.
It's too bad our sniper can't get a bead on al-Bagdadi or lil' Kim.
You people think that's not a big deal what is happening in Europe right now? You think it won't happen here? Think again!
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Like it or not, we are all on a "side".
I don't feel that I'm on a side.
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It's intellectually lazy (or hyper-partisan nonsense) to say that if you don't celebrate a death, then you are on the terrorist's side. you can be on Canada's "side" (whatever that means) and not celebrate this death.
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It's intellectually lazy (or hyper-partisan nonsense) to say that if you don't celebrate a death, then you are on the terrorist's side. you can be on Canada's "side" (whatever that means) and not celebrate this death.
It's a good thing nobody said that.
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The "with us or against us" nonsense is also intellectually lazy. You can be neither... or a bit of both...
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The "with us or against us" nonsense is also intellectually lazy. You can be neither... or a bit of both...
No, you cant. There are only people who haven't had to get off the fence yet. I guess that speaks to the freedoms that people over the years have earned for us.
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No, you cant. There are only people who haven't had to get off the fence yet. I guess that speaks to the freedoms that people over the years have earned for us.
That's bull, quite frankly. Life is full of nuance. Black and white positions are quote possibly the major problem with politics today.
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That's bull, quite frankly. Life is full of nuance. Black and white positions are quote possibly the major problem with politics today.
The muslims are forcing the issue in Europe, and those affected are having to choose a side. I know that people who sit on a fence are quite ready to tell the rest us how smarter, more enlightened they are, but that's just a facade, a luxury of being able to sit on the sidelines. That isn't gonna be the case in Canada in a few years. Muslims don't want to assimilate and won't, this is a culture war that is happening. Problem is; the left doesn't know it. "oh hey man, they want the same things as we do" - that all bull. Does your 8YO know how to field strip an AK-47? Are you sending your 12 YO to terrorist traing camps? does you 15YO build bombs in his living room?
Sitting on a fence and refusing to acknowledge the obvious is a choice, it's taking a side.
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You actually have no evidence for your accusations against Canadian Muslims being a problem 'in just a few years'.
Until the world turns black and white I'll keep fence sitting.
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I don't feel that I'm on a side.
In the context of a struggle of civilizations, of the belief our society should be structured as we do, or as the majority of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims would wish it, I think we pretty much all are on one side or the other. There really is no middle.
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Lots of Canadian Muslims do assimilate. Lots of Canadian-born Muslims are very Canadianized and don't give any visible indication that they're religious at all. I understand that in some areas with lots of newcomers, it's a common sight to see women walking around dressed in full tents and bags over their heads, but that isn't representative of all Muslims in Canada.
As for "black and white"... there's lots of room to debate things like "should Western forces be in the Middle East at all?" and "did we have a role in creating these extremists?" and so on.
But there are really no shades of grey when it comes to ISIS. They are the epitome of evil and need to be defeated. That part really is black and white.
-k
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Is that the sides ? Pro-ISIS or Anti-ISIS ?
If so, I am definitely AGAINST ISIS !
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Lots of Canadian Muslims do assimilate. Lots of Canadian-born Muslims are very Canadianized and don't give any visible indication that they're religious at all. I understand that in some areas with lots of newcomers, it's a common sight to see women walking around dressed in full tents and bags over their heads, but that isn't representative of all Muslims in Canada.
As for "black and white"... there's lots of room to debate things like "should Western forces be in the Middle East at all?" and "did we have a role in creating these extremists?" and so on.
But there are really no shades of grey when it comes to ISIS. They are the epitome of evil and need to be defeated. That part really is black and white.
-k
Then those people aren't Islamists - obviously! This isn't a question of brown people Vs. white people, it's about Islam - radical Islam. Secondly, of course not all muslims are radical - not all germans were Nazis either. Not every muslim is blowing up **** in Europe, not every muslim is raping women in Sweden, but there are enough to change political policy and the culture of a society. The majority is always silent, but even in their silence, they will choose their side.
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I'm sorry you live in such a scary world.... :o but I'm glad your world isn't reality.
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I'm sorry you live in such a scary world.... :o but I'm glad your world isn't reality.
I'm not scared of anything, just disappointed that after every advancement in society, the western world will succumb to radical islamists.
BTW - Check out the new reality in Sweden where they are cancelling any - maybe all events where there are big gatherings
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Check out the new reality in Sweden where they are cancelling any - maybe all events where there are big gatherings
Did Breitbart tell you that?
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Did Breitbart tell you that?
CBC actually, then of course i did some research. Some of the biggest are Bravalla, Earth hour and Xterra, however there are more, but I don't speak Swedish and don't want to give you bogus information. There is talk of Sweden replacing the Music festival with a "no-men" festival. So yeah, not scared...disappointed!
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Did Breitbart tell you that?
They are rescheduling a major music festival to be female only due to ongoing problems with sexual assault and harassment. They don't say this is because of Muslims but everyone knows that's the case. It's Sweden, after all.
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It's incredible how many times Sweden's **** statistics can be explained to you, but you continue to run with your bullshit alt-right narrative.
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It's incredible how many times Sweden's **** statistics can be explained to you, but you continue to run with your bullshit alt-right narrative.
it's got nothing to do with **** stats. Yes, some people argue that they've changed the stats to broaden the term, there are other reports that claim the opposite, that Sweden is trying to cover the actual stats. What we know for sure, is that every time there is a large gathering, there are tremendous numbers of women coming forward with **** and assault claims. To the point where events are being cancelled over it - women are tired of being assaulted, are they lying?. What does it tell you that they are considering women only events - WTF does that say to you? You've always been a big advocate for women's right's, what about now?
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Next year's "Bravalla" cancelled after numerous sexual assaults at this year's event:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/03/swedens-bravalla-music-festival-cancelled-next-year-after-sex-attacks
And this isn't the first we heard about this problem. Last year, not long after the outrageous events in Cologne, Swedish media discovered that police were aware of numerous sexual assaults at the "We Are Sthlm" music festival in 2014 and 2015 and didn't report them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Sthlm_sexual_assaults
...and of course we're also aware that police and government officials attempted to hide the New Year's Eve events at Cologne and elsewhere from the public as well.
So no, this isn't just something the far-right media has invented. This is something that exists, and you can decide for yourselves why mainstream media outlets have tried to pretend it doesn't.
-k
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So no, this isn't just something the far-right media has invented. This is something that exists, and you can decide for yourselves why mainstream media outlets have tried to pretend it doesn't.
-k
Because if you point out what's happening, you're labelled an Islamophobe.
And if you'd like to avoid the same problems coming to Canada, you're labelled a racist.
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Well... if I read the wikipedia page correctly, it has been a problem for some time. And now that Muslims are doing it, we have the media and police wanting to not report it.
It seems like a censorship issue and attendant problem with public engagement first and foremost. Agree ?
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It's incredible how many times Sweden's **** statistics can be explained to you, but you continue to run with your bullshit alt-right narrative.
It's incredible how you refuse to accept, even after they admit it, that Sweden's media and left wing government are doing their very best to cover up everything to do with this. The reports hardly come from 'alt right'. I don't even know any alt-right sources.
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it's got nothing to do with **** stats. Yes, some people argue that they've changed the stats to broaden the term,
One thing which is undeniable and which the government does not try to deny. They changed the way **** statistics were collected to no longer collect information based on ethnicity, nationality or national origin.
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Music festivals and sexual assaults are not new, nor is hising the problem from the public. But when it wasn't Muslims implicated, nobody cared.
http://www.mtv.com/news/516319/two-woodstock-fans-allegedly-****-in-mosh-pits/
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/19-worst-things-about-woodstock-99-20140731
http://www.cbc.ca/1.3700522
But anyway, perhaps non-Muslim rapists will decide that they don't want to be considered barbaric, misogynistic, barbaric savages and will stop their sex assaults. That would at least cut down on **** and sexual assaults and everyone who blames Muslims for sexual assaults would be right. Win-win.
Except for Muslims who don't think sexual assault is all right of course, they would be guilty regardless, merely for being Muslim.
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Conservatives only care when brown or black people ****, just like they only care about babies before they are born.
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For the record... this was about whether one could have a nuanced take on the issue of a celebrated sniper.
Then HAL indicated that this is being forced by Muslims and the issue drifted back to the same old same old... basically "Muslims are bad, if we don't kill them our civilization is doomed"
Yes, my characterization is hyperbole but - hey - I have to do something to bring some life to this shitty, boring topic that elicits 10,000 moronic posts a week on both sides.
Nobody is going to ban Muslims, it's not going to happen. We're not going to turn into a Sharia kingdom in the near future, you must admit.
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Conservatives only care when brown or black people ****, just like they only care about babies before they are born.
that's a pretty dumb thing to say.
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People in Canada and the West in general need to wake the hell up and realize that while many Muslims are moderate and good citizens, a sizeable portion have radical views. ie: Countries like Saudi Arabia have horrible cultures founded on ultra-conservative & extreme interpretations of Islam. Many Muslims aren't tolerant and aren't liberal, and I don't want those Muslims who think like this allowed in my country, because then you end up with a society like France and Britain where the radicals who refuse to assimilate start blowing us up. This naive idealistic worldview of a multicultural utopia that Justin Trudeau and his father dreamed up needs a healthy dose of reality.
These 2 videos will demonstrate my point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg&t=55s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg&t=55s)
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Many Muslims aren't tolerant and aren't liberal, and I don't want those Muslims who think like this allowed in my country, because then you end up with a society like France and Britain where the radicals who refuse to assimilate start blowing us up. This naive idealistic worldview of a multicultural utopia that Justin Trudeau and his father dreamed up needs a healthy dose of reality.
uhhh... just what 'Justin dream' do you attach Canada's multiculturalism policy... of the 70s/80s... to?
what form does your implied Muslim Ban take - details man, we need details!
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what form does your implied Muslim Ban take - details man, we need details!
If you have past ties to salafi/wahabi sunni Islam please keep out. This ideology is what drives ISIS and al-Qaeda etc. If we can't establish whether or not you have religious ties to these horrific ideologies then you don't get in. If you're ie: a Syrian refugee and we can't establish your ideological background, you don't get in.
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Conservatives only care when brown or black people ****,
And progressives care about **** as long as the perp isn't brown or black.
You know, the stats on **** in the US are pretty unequivocal about racial ****, but you rarely see anyone but the far right bringing up the uncomfortable truths of which race is raping - and killing which.
And btw, Muslims aren't necessarily brown or black. Some of them are as white as I am. Many are indistinguishable from 'whites' or at least, from southern European whites.
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I hate to overrule myself (but I think I can do this). The conversation about moderation has been moved to the administration part of the forum.
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Music festivals and sexual assaults are not new, nor is hising the problem from the public. But when it wasn't Muslims implicated, nobody cared.
At Swedish music festivals, they had gangs of Muslim mooks encircling girls and sexually assaulting them. But there have also been sexual assaults at North American music festivals by non-Muslims, so it's all the same.
At Cologne they had mobs of Muslim mooks encircling women at the train station and sexually assaulting them. But non-Muslims also commit sexual assaults, so it's all the same.
This is the kind of false equivalency that drives me mental.
As the articles mention, the modus operandi-- a gang of perpetrators surrounding a lone or small group of women to commit a group sexual assault-- was was previously unknown in Sweden, and in Cologne.
But it's not unknown at all in Muslim countries. Ask Lara Logan.
-k
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gangs of Muslim mooks ... sexually assaulting; mobs of Muslim mooks... sexually assaulting
This is the kind of false equivalency that drives me mental.
but you're clearly all right with false dichotomies, yes? There's been a bit of time since those German New Year's eve events... some time since we had our respective exchanges on the subject on that other shytehole board. Have you been able to refine your numbers/specifics over the time interval? There's been no shortage of reports/analysis, yes?
you just sparked my googly curiosity. Given your (continued) Muslim fervor, I'm having a slight googly glitch as the many articles I've just refreshed my recall with don't even mention the word Muslim - go figure, hey! But again, have you any actual numbers on that declared sexual assault (perpetrators versus victims)... and a definition of that time on what types of offences actually constituted sexual assault (in Germany). Sure wouldn't want your words to be interpreted as false equivalencies, right? Any refinement over time in being able to more clearly differentiate the majority of perps beyond their illegal immigrant status and their North African origin? But hey now, check out that profiled report that speaks to the majority of reported crimes as being theft related ... or kissing/groping/touching... nothing like posturing over false equivalencies in the face of pulling the Muslim card, right? And wait now, there's also that inconvenient report that plays up the "Broken Windows" theory attachment to fostering the number/prevalence of reported crimes in the face of inadequate German policing... imagine drunken young, uhhh... mooks, ya mooks... fueled by minimal police numbers and their lack of interceding law enforcement. And again, no excuses offered and none made for actual crimes committed.
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At Swedish music festivals, they had gangs of Muslim mooks encircling girls and sexually assaulting them. But there have also been sexual assaults at North American music festivals by non-Muslims, so it's all the same.
At Cologne they had mobs of Muslim mooks encircling women at the train station and sexually assaulting them. But non-Muslims also commit sexual assaults, so it's all the same.
This is the kind of false equivalency that drives me mental.
As the articles mention, the modus operandi-- a gang of perpetrators surrounding a lone or small group of women to commit a group sexual assault-- was was previously unknown in Sweden, and in Cologne.
But it's not unknown at all in Muslim countries. Ask Lara Logan.
-k
Yeah, I read a lot about that case and mentioned it once on the "other" board. I also mentioned how a couple of Muslims were actively accusing her of lying about the incident. They said they saw her earlier and that she seemed fine.
I'm not saying the Muslims accusing her were incorrect - although it may not have been "her" they saw (even they weren't sure) and they may also have seen her before the incident.
But it was pretty amazing to see the reaction - apologists immediately denied these incidents are happening. (Or that they are waaaay more minor than the news makes them out to be, possibly some minor groping going on, but of course, that happens everywhere, so......). They refused to read any of the accounts, but were immediately attracted to the "She's lying!" thing because Muslims NEVER lie or are incorrect.
I get tired of the claim that it's only about a half dozen "bad" Muslims in the world, making it difficult for the other 1.3 billion (or whatever it is).
Anyways, sniper shot.
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but you're clearly all right with false dichotomies, yes? There's been a bit of time since those German New Year's eve events... some time since we had our respective exchanges on the subject on that other shytehole board. Have you been able to refine your numbers/specifics over the time interval? There's been no shortage of reports/analysis, yes?
you just sparked my googly curiosity. Given your (continued) Muslim fervor, I'm having a slight googly glitch as the many articles I've just refreshed my recall with don't even mention the word Muslim - go figure, hey!
You won't find much hard information on, for example, the number of **** or other crimes in Sweden committed by Muslims. You know why? Because when the numbers rose to eye-popping heights the Swedish progressives stopped collecting statistics based on race, ethnicity or national origin. Now, like you they can sneer and say "Where's the proof!?"|
And of course, the news media virtually never mentions the ethnicity of criminals. In fact, they go out of their way to avoid it. Ottawa had almost a record number of murders and shootings last year, and in virtually every report, whenever there was a name, it was a Muslim name. But no one in media ever mentioned this strange coincidence, that virtually all the shootings and killings seemed to have Muslim involvement. Nor will they. Three people were shot yesterday, two of them murdered. Sounds like Muslim names, but don't expect anything from the media on that.
As for European media, they've already admitted they not only don't mention ethnicity, but have deliberately ignored/downplayed reports in order not to cause people to look askance at local Muslims. Progressives are not the most honest of people, and especially when confronting realities which go against their ideological beliefs.
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You won't find much hard information on, for example, the number of **** or other crimes in Sweden committed by Muslims.
But that doesn't stop you and your ilk from talking about how out of control it is. There's no hard information, but you might as well pretend like there is, huh? You don't get to have it both ways.
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But that doesn't stop you and your ilk from talking about how out of control it is. There's no hard information, but you might as well pretend like there is, huh? You don't get to have it both ways.
You mean those who care about western civilization and society and its protection and health? Those who believe in law and order?
I don't believe I've offered up ANY suggestions about how to control it other than the obvious, which is similar to the fact that the more Muslims you have, the more terrorism you have. The more men who come from cultures which can only be described as hateful towards women, the more violence and sexual violence you are going to see being directed towards women. This is basic, elementary logic.
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At Swedish music festivals, they had gangs of Muslim mooks encircling girls and sexually assaulting them. But there have also been sexual assaults at North American music festivals by non-Muslims, so it's all the same.
At Cologne they had mobs of Muslim mooks encircling women at the train station and sexually assaulting them. But non-Muslims also commit sexual assaults, so it's all the same.
This is the kind of false equivalency that drives me mental.
You are absolutely correct, of course. If a non-Muslim mook or gang of non-Muslim mooks **** a woman at a music festival, that's not as bad as Muslim Mooks doing it. If a Muslim mook gropes a girl in a swimming pool in Edmonton, why here's proof that the end of our culture is upon us; the near daily news reports of non-Muslim mooks sexually assaulting girls is just business-as-usual. If a Muslim mook stabs a woman and kills her baby, that's way worse than if a regular mook does the same thing. A crime committed by a Muslim is proof of our moral superiority; any mention of similar crimes by non-Muslims is "false equivalency".
Glad we got that straightened out.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/07/gang_rape_reported_at_reggae_f.html
At the festival, the woman reports she was **** by the two men as well as three other men who were with them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98P8UqKYC5U
A 16-year-old girl was allegedly beaten by other girls before being held down to be **** in a horrifying attack that was filmed on a cellphone, it was revealed today.
Patricia Montes, 15, and 16-year-old Erica Avery are accused of punching, kicking and pepper-spraying the girl before holding her down to be **** by Jayvon Woolfork, 19, police said.
The barbaric attack was filmed on a cell phone by Lanel Singleton, 18, and shows the girl writhing half naked and weeping in the yard of a home in Hollywood, Florida while her attackers leer over her
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4218576/Gang-****-teen-committed-suicide-wrote-warning-letter.html
Australian girl Gang-**** by schoolmates.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/17/528804172/new-lawsuit-alleges-baylor-players-gang-****-women-as-bonding-experience
Football players bonding over sexual assault
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/23/534183805/third-former-vanderbilt-football-player-found-guilty-in-****-of-unconscious-stud
Participates in gang **** because he was afraid he'd be bullied if he didn't.
http://www.forbesadvocate.com.au/story/4717791/she-wanted-to-yell-out-but-she-couldnt-four-men-on-trial-for-party-gang-****/?cs=7
Young adult males **** a 15-year-old
https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/ywmmeg/theres-a-****-epidemic-at-music-festivals-and-nobody-seems-to-care
Before the "Muslim **** Crisis" in Sweden, music-festival **** are ignored
https://qz.com/741821/****-at-international-music-festivals-is-a-hideous-problem-that-isnt-going-away/
Yes, it's very different when non-Muslims are doing the raping.
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You are absolutely correct, of course. If a non-Muslim mook or gang of non-Muslim mooks **** a woman at a music festival, that's not as bad as Muslim Mooks doing it.
No one has ever even implied that. It's just that this kind of thing rarely happens outside certain 'communities' mainly made up of swaggering, violent, macho men to whom women are there for breeding and cooking and nothing more. That pretty much describes much of the Muslim world as well as black, inner city America. Your googling a few cases of multiple **** doesn't change that. You'd be as logical in producing cases where whites murdered people and say this means blacks don't do it in disproportionate numbers. Or, for that matter, showing a few cases of women murdering people to fight back against the suggestion men murder people more often.
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And of course, the news media virtually never mentions the ethnicity of criminals. In fact, they go out of their way to avoid it. Ottawa had almost a record number of murders and shootings last year, and in virtually every report, whenever there was a name, it was a Muslim name. But no one in media ever mentioned this strange coincidence, that virtually all the shootings and killings seemed to have Muslim involvement. Nor will they. Three people were shot yesterday, two of them murdered. Sounds like Muslim names, but don't expect anything from the media on that.
is one city, one year... an anomaly or, in your skewed view, a trend? ;D But hey now, a quick googly... even relying upon, accepting, such stalwart sources as Horowitz/Creeping Sharia, your, "virtually every report... virtually all" gets narrowed down a tad to... "less than half". No word on whether that less than half is a, 'less than virtual half'! What's this: 24 homicides in 2016, in total... that's it! Oh Argus!
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is one city, one year... an anomaly or, in your skewed view, a trend? ;D But hey now, a quick googly... even relying upon, accepting, such stalwart sources as Horowitz/Creeping Sharia, your, "virtually every report... virtually all" gets narrowed down a tad to... "less than half". No word on whether that less than half is a, 'less than virtual half'! What's this: 24 homicides in 2016, in total... that's it! Oh Argus!
I think it's more than half, closer to two thirds, but I don't think I need to bother looking, really. Even if it was half, do you not see how people might be concerned if a group which makes up perhaps 3% of the population is involved in half of homicides and shootings?
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I think it's more than half, closer to two thirds, but I don't think I need to bother looking, really. Even if it was half, do you not see how people might be concerned if a group which makes up perhaps 3% of the population is involved in half of homicides and shootings?
no - it's less than half... you can think (make up) anything you want to perpetuate your agenda. You're quite prepared and content to target a single year and in all your zealous puffery, use that single year event as a broadbrush statement - of course you are. And again, we're talking about 12 homicides... that's it! That's what has you shaking in your boots. If you look a little closer it seems the majority of those associate to young male Somali's (many just adolescents that grew up in a freakin war zone). Again, to you, when does a single year statistic rise above the anomaly that it truly is... at this point?
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no - it's less than half... you can think (make up) anything you want to perpetuate your agenda. You're quite prepared and content to target a single year and in all your zealous puffery, use that single year event as a broadbrush statement - of course you are. And again, we're talking about 12 homicides... that's it! That's what has you shaking in your boots. If you look a little closer it seems the majority of those associate to young male Somali's (many just adolescents that grew up in a freakin war zone). Again, to you, when does a single year statistic rise above the anomaly that it truly is... at this point?
The Somalis in Ottawa have been heavily involved in violent crime since their arrival. It's not simply one year. It's very difficult, however, to find references to it in media since the media does its best not to mention the racial or ethnic makeup of street gangs, or even individual criminals. You only get references in passing, usually by mistake. For example, in one 'heartwarming' story in the Citizen about raising money for a Somali youth center a year or two back, it mentioned in passing, the great need for such a thing given more than half the juvenile prisoners under detention in the Ottawa area are Somalis. That's the only way you actually read anything in media.
But if you live here, you know. When the media reports a dozen 'youths' involved in a swarming on a bus, you know who they are. When the media reports two or three dozen 'youths' involved in a violent altercation, no one has to ask what the makeup was of the groups involved. For swarmings its about 80% Somali, for gang fights that don't use weapons it's usually Somalis and Lebanese. For street gang shootings it's Somalis with a few Haitians/Jamaicans thrown in for good measure, and a small number of Lebanese and associated Arabs. That's simply the reality here.
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No one has ever even implied that. It's just that this kind of thing rarely happens outside certain 'communities' mainly made up of swaggering, violent, macho men to whom women are there for breeding and cooking and nothing more.
If swaggering men who believe women are only there for breeding/cooking is the reason for ****, why do 20% of Canadian women still experience sexual assault?
If **** is mainly a problem of societies/cultures who believe women should take the subordinate role, why aren't you directing your criticism to every single fundamentalist Christian group in Canada? Jehovah's Witnesses, Mennonites, Mormons, Shakers, Quakers, Orthodox Catholics and Jews, Baptists - to name just a few?
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Recently a Canadian sniper set a new record for longest confirmed kill-- killing a Daesh fighter preparing to ambush our allies from over 3.5 km away. Prime Minister Trudeau said the achievement was “something to be celebrated for the excellence of the Canadian Forces in their training, in the performance of their duties.”
I agree-- first off, Trudeau framed it as celebrating the excellence of our Armed Forces personnel. I see nothing wrong with that. In fact, 3 of the 5 longest confirmed kills were performed by Canadian snipers. One American and one Brit are on the list. The Canadians serving overseas no doubt took pride in the recognition. And secondly, ISIS are the scum of the earth and I think that any death of a Daesh fighter is cause for celebration.
The Toronto Star feels this is entirely inappropriate, however. Here they scold Trudeau for saying the sniper's achievement was cause for celebration. All life is valuable, they say, and that even the death of an ISIS fighter is cause for sober reflection on the loss of life.
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2017/07/02/sniper-shot-is-no-cause-to-celebrate-editorial.html
To me it seems ridiculous. That guy, whoever he was, was fighting for a group responsible for sickening brutality. The world is a better place without him. That's my view, at least.
Am I a psychopath, or is the Toronto Star out of their freaking gourds?
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The Torstar or Red Star is becoming a parody, maybe of themselves. This should be the stuff of standup comedians into sick jokes, not of a newspaper that pretends to be mainstream. The expression "jumping the shark" comes to mind, where a person or entity acts in a manner that they can no longer be taken seriously.
Unfortunately some SJW's will disagree. Just as I expect disagreement here, https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/canada-discussion-forum/should-more-murder-suspects-die-during-arrests/ about hardened criminals.
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"SJWs" the truck nuts of internet jargon.