Canadian Politics Today
Federal Politics => Canadian Politics => Topic started by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 24, 2022, 09:40:46 pm
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The cops who, internally, were found to have been racist, were supposed to show up at an apology ceremony as part of a settlement.
They didn’t show up. And the VPD are trying to claim that they have fulfilled their part of the settlement.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-police-board-apologize-discrimination-heiltsuk-man-granddaughter-1.6626040
A long-awaited apology ceremony for an Indigenous man and his granddaughter who were wrongfully handcuffed when they tried to open a bank account in Vancouver will not be going ahead as planned Monday after the two arresting officers decided not to attend.
The ceremony and feast in Bella Bella, B.C., was included in a human rights settlement between Maxwell Johnson and his granddaughter, who were detained by two Vancouver police officers on a busy downtown street outside a Bank of Montreal branch nearly three years ago.
This spring, the two arresting officers were suspended and ordered to apologize for their "serious, blameworthy" misconduct.
Brian Neal, a retired provincial court judge appointed to the case by the Office of the Police Complaint Commissioner, found the officers each committed two counts of abuse of authority by "recklessly arresting the complainants and by using unnecessary force by applying handcuffs."
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They weren't RCMP, they are VPD and I agree it is a bad look.
Interesting that both of the officers weren't white.
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They weren't RCMP, they are VPD and I agree it is a bad look.
Interesting that both of the officers weren't white.
Ooops. My bad. Corrected.
I’m not sure how interesting it is that they weren’t white…. Maybe, I guess.
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oh my! C'mon squiggy, clean-up in aisle 8! Just where is that, as you say, "racist finding"... to be found?
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oh my! C'mon squiggy, clean-up in aisle 8! Just where is that, as you say, "racist finding"... to be found?
Any idea why they'd arrest and cuff an old man and a 12 year old girl for doing nothing?
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Any idea why they'd arrest and cuff an old man and a 12 year old girl for doing nothing?
It wasn't for nothing, the bank called because they thought the pair was committing fraud. Maybe put the racist accusation where it really belongs.
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It wasn't for nothing, the bank called because they thought the pair was committing fraud. Maybe put the racist accusation where it really belongs.
The bank employee called 9-11 but lol at the idea that this is a reasonable thing to do to an old man and a 12 year old girl:
"They came over and grabbed me and my granddaughter, took us to a police vehicle and handcuffed both of us, told us we were being detained and read us our rights," Johnson said.
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The bank employee who called 9-11 but lol at the idea that this is a reasonable thing to do to an old man and a 12 year old girl:
I'm not saying the police reaction was OK but it was the bank that instigated this. Any racism started with the bank.
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It actually is. Parties are usually detained, not arrested, while the situation is investigated. This is much ado about nothing.
You're just on a tear with the L's today.
"I have found that both [officers] acted oppressively in their dealings with Mr. Johnson and his granddaughter. The officers' actions in arresting and handcuffing the parties was undertaken without reasonable and probable grounds," wrote Brian Neal, a retired provincial court judge appointed to the case by the Office of the Police Complaint Commissioner (OPCC).
Police officers who handcuffed Indigenous man, granddaughter outside bank ordered suspended for misconduct
(https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/police-suspended-heiltsuk-man-granddaughter-handcuffed-bmo-1.6410405)
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I'm not saying the police reaction was OK but it was the bank that instigated this. Any racism started with the bank.
And continued with the cops.
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And continued with the cops.
Ya but typically you can't bring yourself to mention the bank.
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Ya but typically you can't bring yourself to mention the bank.
It's so funny when you try to police (pun intended) what I say about cops and end up getting it wrong:
Here's what I posted earlier:
The bank employee called 9-11 but lol at the idea that this is a reasonable thing to do to an old man and a 12 year old girl:
This is the same thing you tried in the thread about the San Antonio cop, didn't work then either.
And in case you're wondering why I'd focus on the cops instead of the bank employee (who is also racist) it's because cops are public servants and bank employees are not.
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It's so funny when you try to police (pun intended) what I say about cops and end up getting it wrong:
I never said anything about what you said about police, just your refusal to say anything about the bank which started the whole episode. You are just so damn predictable.
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I never said anything about what you said about police, just your refusal to say anything about the bank which started the whole episode. You are just so damn predictable.
Except the part where I did talk about the bank. You're pretty predictable at making false claims.
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Handcuffing isn’t arresting, it’s detaining. I was referring to their detainment, which isn’t unusual.
lmao:
Neal found the officers each committed two counts of abuse of authority by "recklessly arresting the complainants and by using unnecessary force by applying handcuffs."
Me counting today's Shiddy fuckups:
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/3o7WTxyMSVN7lM5I7C/giphy.gif)
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Except the part where I did talk about the bank. You're pretty predictable at making false claims.
You posted this The bank employee called 9-11 but lol at the idea that this is a reasonable thing to do to an old man and a 12 year old girl:
only in response to my post about you not wanting to mention the bank. You had to be pushed into that and you never could bring yourself to use the word racism regarding the bank's actions. You are just so predictable.
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Handcuffing isn’t arresting. It’s not force. It’s actually used to protect the safety of the officer and the person detained. But you’re a sh*t lib police bigot, that doesn’t know f*^k all about policing.
We're not talking about some hypothetical scenario we're talking about a specific case in which two people were wrongfully arrested you dullard.
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You posted this only in response to my post about you not wanting to mention the bank. You had to be pushed into that and you never could bring yourself to use the word racism regarding the bank's actions. You are just so predictable.
Again, you tedious old fart:
And in case you're wondering why I'd focus on the cops instead of the bank employee (who is also racist) it's because cops are public servants and bank employees are not.
I wonder why you're so eager to downplay the role that racism might have played in the cops' treatment of these folks.
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For the dullard who thinks arresting and handcuffing an old man and a 12 year old girl were reasonable actions, here's a few more excerpts from the disciplinary proceeding decision (https://www.heiltsuknation.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Final-jan-28_Redacted-v2_Redacted.pdf).
What followed thereafter was a disturbing and profoundly disrespectful series of events affecting both Mr. Johnson and his granddaughter. In the result, shortly after noon that day, both Mr. Johnson and his granddaughter found themselves escorted out of the Bank without explanation by two Vancouver Police Officers, Cst. W and Cst. T. On exiting the Bank to the busy sidewalk and December weather, both parties were immediately arrested and handcuffed by the two officers.
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Having considered all of the circumstances set out in the investigation report, the evidence of witnesses and submissions advanced, I have found that both Cst. W and Cst.T acted oppressively in their dealings with Mr. Johnson and his granddaughter. Specifically, I have found that the officers’ actions in arresting and handcuffing the parties was undertaken without reasonable and probable grounds. I have found that no reasonable police officer standing in the shoes of the two officers could support such actions based on suspicion alone. Furthermore, I have found that such actions demonstrated serious, blameworthy conduct contrary to section 77 of the Police Act. As such I have substantiated two allegations of misconduct against both officers;
(i) Recklessly arresting Mr. Johnson and his granddaughter without good and sufficient cause; and
(ii)Recklessly using unnecessary force on Mr. Johnson and his granddaughter by applying handcuffs to the parties on arrest without good and sufficient cause.
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Just where is that, as you say, "racist finding"... to be found?
Any idea why they'd arrest and cuff an old man and a 12 year old girl for doing nothing?
I wonder why you're so eager to downplay the role that racism might have played in the cops' treatment of these folks.
again, the OP specifically states a finding of racism... and the waldo repeats, where is that finding found? Are you suggesting the substantiated misconduct allegations equate to systemic racism... or even racism localized to this specific event? The waldo notes that the VPD has subsequently introduced a 'new handcuff policy'... one that is said to emphasize officers' discretion on when to use handcuffs, considering age, Indigeneity, race, ability (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-police-board-approves-interim-handcuff-policy-1.6220327)
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Again, you tedious old fart:
I wonder why you're so eager to downplay the role that racism might have played in the cops' treatment of these folks.
I'm not downplaying anything the police did, their failure to show in Bella Coola looks really bad on the VPD. Your absolute reluctance to include the banks behaviour is hilarious but totally predictable.
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oh my! C'mon squiggy, clean-up in aisle 8! Just where is that, as you say, "racist finding"... to be found?
Durrr…. I don’t know…. Maybe in the settlement?
As part of the agreement, the Vancouver Police Board admitted the conduct of officers discriminated against Johnson and his granddaughter based on their Indigenous identities.
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/indigenous-man-granddaughter-who-were-wrongly-handcuffed-reach-settlement-with-vancouver-police-1.6087490
Is Walduh going to double-down and tell us that the VPD admitting to discrimination because they were indigenous is not racism?
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I'm not downplaying anything the police did, their failure to show in Bella Coola looks really bad on the VPD. Your absolute reluctance to include the banks behaviour is hilarious but totally predictable.
Cry about it some more old man.
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Durrr…. I don’t know…. Maybe in the settlement?
Is waldo going to double-down and tell us that the VPD admitting to discrimination because they were indigenous is not racism?
let's recap: you got the police force wrong to begin with... and your thread title was not supported by the initial reference link you provided. And now, after a re-do of your OP, you double-down by wrongly referencing the VancouverPoliceDepartment instead of the civilian VancouverPoliceBoard - so emboldened you are squiggy - so emboldened!
Brian Neal, a retired provincial court judge appointed to the case by the Office of the Police Complaint Commissioner, found the officers each committed two counts of abuse of authority by "recklessly arresting the complainants and by using unnecessary force by applying handcuffs."
from the report prepared by Neal:
As such I have substantiated two allegations of misconduct against both officers;
(i) Recklessly arresting Mr. Johnson and his granddaughter without good and sufficient
cause; and
(ii) Recklessly using unnecessary force on Mr. Johnson and his granddaughter by
applying handcuffs to the parties on arrest without good and sufficient cause.
in the Neal report, the waldo reads no finding of racism (systemic or localized to the event in question) and no finding that the VPD officers were racist in their actions.
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Cry about it some more old man.
Pathetic.
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I find it interesting that the VPD chief was there. Makes me wonder what kind of politics are going on behind the scene. Dept vis union. Board vis dept and union. Board and dept vs union. Officer's lawyers. Regardless if one thinks the officers behaviour was racist or not, this is not a good look for the VPD.
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Pathetic.
Not nearly as pathetic as your pedantic bootlicking and pretending the bank employee’s racism excuses that if the cops (see your comments about the cops being non white and the concern over how it “looks” versus anything systematic.)
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Not nearly as pathetic as your pedantic bootlicking and pretending the bank employee’s racism excuses that if the cops (see your comments about the cops being non white and the concern over how it “looks” versus anything systematic.)
The difference between you and me is that I can be critical of police whereas you can't be anything but. That is why any discourse between us on the subject is a waste of time. I forgot that for a moment.
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Not nearly as pathetic as your pedantic bootlicking and pretending the bank employee’s racism excuses that if the cops (see your comments about the cops being non white and the concern over how it “looks” versus anything systematic.)
The bank called the police because they thought the pair were trying to commit fraud. You can't even bring yourself to accept that, it's only police behaviour that was racist. You really, are pathetic.
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Walduh doubles down…. Subjecting someone to mistreatment because they’re indigenous is not racist…. LOL
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Walduh doubles down…. Subjecting someone to mistreatment because they’re indigenous is not racist…. LOL
Look, I think this was handled poorly but you branding people as racists is just **** ignorant. Showing poor judgement in a situation does not make a person on a racist. From the video, other than being cuffed they were not being abused. physically or verbally. We know nothing about these officers. I thought you were better than that.
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squiggy's pathetic strawman! Again, the Neal investigation/report substantiated 2 instances of misconduct by the VPD officers & the waldo reads no finding of racism (systemic or localized to the event in question) and no finding that the VPD officers were racist in their actions.
let's recap: you got the police force wrong to begin with... and your thread title was not supported by the initial reference link you provided. And now, after a re-do of your OP, you double-down by wrongly referencing the VancouverPoliceDepartment instead of the civilian VancouverPoliceBoard.
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Look, I think this was handled poorly but you branding people as racists is just **** ignorant. Showing poor judgement in a situation does not make a person on a racist. From the video, other than being cuffed they were not being abused. physically or verbally. We know nothing about these officers. I thought you were better than that.
So you don’t believe the Vancouver Police Board when they say the cops treated these folks poorly because they are indigenous?
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So you don’t believe the Vancouver Police Board when they say the cops treated these folks poorly because they are indigenous?
Maybe they did but so did the bank. It still doesn't make those officers racists.
The label racist has become the new dog whistle for anyone who has nothing more to add to the discussion.
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Look, I think this was handled poorly but you branding people as racists is just **** ignorant. Showing poor judgement in a situation does not make a person on a racist. From the video, other than being cuffed they were not being abused. physically or verbally. We know nothing about these officers. I thought you were better than that.
Look into your soul and ask yourself if this would happen to an old white guy and an young while girl. Be honest because we all know it wouldn’t.
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The difference between you and me is that I can be critical of police whereas you can't be anything but. That is why any discourse between us on the subject is a waste of time. I forgot that for a moment.
The harshest criticism you’ve ever and I do mean ever mustered of police is here in this thread and all you’ve managed to muster is “gee golly gosh this is a bad look.” If you think you’re approaching this while subject with anything close to good faith then your only fooling yourself.
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The bank called the police because they thought the pair were trying to commit fraud. You can't even bring yourself to accept that, it's only police behaviour that was racist. You really, are pathetic.
Lol **** if with your demands for some ritual condemnation of an individual I’m employed by a private sector entity so you can keep pretending the so-called public servants weren’t complicit in the racial profiling and discrimination these people experienced.
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Lol **** if with your demands for some ritual condemnation of an individual I’m employed by a private sector entity so you can keep pretending the so-called public servants weren’t complicit in the racial profiling and discrimination these people experienced.
Give me a **** break, you won't even acknowledge that their motives might have been racist.
We are told there are a disproportionate number of FN in jail. That must mean the judges and prosecutors who put them there are also racist. But no.
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Give me a **** break, you won't even acknowledge that their motives might have been racist.
Of course they were, but what difference does it make? They aren't public servants who then shirked their duty to make amends.
We are told there are a disproportionate number of FN in jail. That must mean the judges and prosecutors who put them there are also racist. But no.
Yeah you're right there's no racism in the criminal justice system.
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Of course they were, but what difference does it make? They aren't public servants who then shirked their duty to make amends.
Yeah you're right there's no racism in the criminal justice system.
Of course they were what? You just can't bring yourself to say the word except when it applies to the police.
I never said there is no racism in the criminal justice system. There is racism everywhere.
I am critical of those officers for not showing up but that doesn't make them racists.
It was interesting that the chief showed up and not having them there must have been embarrassing for him. I also noticed he didn't make excuses for them not being there, just said it was personal reasons which could mean anything.
I would like to know what was really behind their no show.
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Of course they were what? You just can't bring yourself to say the word except when it applies to the police.
Oh my god get over yourself. The bank teller was racist, will you shut up about it now?
I never said there is no racism in the criminal justice system. There is racism everywhere.
So what was the point of your line about the disproportionate number of Indigenous people in the criminal justice system?
I am critical of those officers for not showing up but that doesn't make them racists.
It was interesting that the chief showed up and not having them there must have been embarrassing for him. I also noticed he didn't make excuses for them not being there, just said it was personal reasons which could mean anything.
I would like to know what was really behind their no show.
Probably a resistance to accountability.
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Maybe they did but so did the bank. It still doesn't make those officers racists.
The label racist has become the new dog whistle for anyone who has nothing more to add to the discussion.
The police board literally said that the officers treated them differently because they were indigenous.
So, if someone who is indigenous is handcuffed and arrested, and someone who was of a different community/skin colour wouldn’t have been, how is that NOT racist???
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Give it a rest already you anti-police bigot.
Come now. It's not like he's ever done anything as slimy as cheer on the attack on capitol police and then try to pretend they didn't suffer any casualties.
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Oh my god get over yourself. The bank teller was racist, will you shut up about it now?
Finally
So what was the point of your line about the disproportionate number of Indigenous people in the criminal justice system?
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My point is the police seem to be the only ones you are willing to label racist.
Probably a resistance to accountability
"Probably" is whatever one would like it to be, I would like to know the actual reasons. Did they stay away on their own accord or were they instructed to stay away and if so, by who?
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My point is the police seem to be the only ones you are willing to label racist.
We weren't talking about courts and judges so it's a non-sequiter.
"Probably" is whatever one would like it to be, I would like to know the actual reasons. Did they stay away on their own accord or were they instructed to stay away and if so, by who?
We will never know.
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Breaking news: police are racist.
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Breaking news: police are racist.
What a ridiculous statement. If that's the case, so are judges and prosecutors and so are all bank employees.
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What a ridiculous statement. If that's the case, so are judges and prosecutors and so are all bank employees.
Individuals may or may not be racist but institutions can be.
Quebec man’s bank funds still locked after two months; RBC denies claims of racial profiling
(https://montreal.citynews.ca/2022/01/23/bank-locked-rbc-racial-profiling/)
RBC agent pushes unnecessary chequing account on customer, comments on his accent
(https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/banks-racial-discrimination-report-1.6473715)
Black customer recounts 'degrading' treatment at Ottawa bank branch
(https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/td-bank-racism-1.5999029)
Montreal-area men file human rights complaints over alleged profiling, discrimination at banks
(https://globalnews.ca/news/6128765/montreal-men-human-rights-complaints-discrimination-banks/)
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Nonsense. Institutions are just people.
So you're arguing that institutions are just groups of people hanging out with no shared cultures, values, and practices?
Regardless, individuals are constantly claiming racism but it doesn’t mean that it is. The human rights tribunals are incentivized this type of nonsense. Anyone who gets treated rudely now automatically thinks is because of race.
Oh look another bullshit statement from our resident Racist Facebook Uncle.
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What a ridiculous statement. If that's the case, so are judges and prosecutors and so are all bank employees.
The officers acted in a racist way. That was admitted by the Police Board. Are the officers themselves racist? I don’t know, but we can judge their actions as clearly racist.
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What a ridiculous statement. If that's the case, so are judges and prosecutors and so are all bank employees.
Ok fair enough. I'll edit my phrase:
Breaking news: some cops are racist.
The thing I don't like about cops is that everyone covers for each other in their wrong doing to one degree or another.
Even the otherwise "good cops" need to turn a blind eye to wrongdoing because it's a brotherhood, and you don't snitch on a brother, you cover for each other, even when a member of the public comes forward with a legit complaint of wrongdoing they typically deny, deny, deny. I know this for a fact. Ever seen the movie "Platoon"? It works like that. Oliver Stone fought in Vietnam, he knows what he's talking about.
So here are the choices that an otherwise "good cop" has:
1. Go along with his crooked department and turn a blind eye and/or lie and cover for them when confronted.
2. Behave ethically and don't go along with the thin blue line of bullsh*t, properly raise concerns of wrongdoing by fellow officers or superiors, and face bullying/ harassment from fellow officers or superiors and get put on bad assignments etc until you quit.
3. Quit right away because you're ethical & you don't want to do option 1 or 2.
So any way you slice it, all cops are unethical. All cops are bad cops who do not honor their oaths, it's simply differs by the matter of degree (which varies drastically). Ethical people cannot stay employed as cops.